How God Affirms the Call to Ministry (Dr. Carlton Byrd)

[Music] mice are cared about these people so we start running evangelistic campaigns they're excited they're bringing the people to church we're baptizing people so I mean this thing is changing my life yeah okay so the call is being affirmed not that God wasn't with me in Mississippi when we baptized those three people but I'm seeing God show himself yeah in a mighty way welcome back to Advent next a theological podcast curated for curious faith discussions we are back today with dr. Carlton Byrd the senior pastor at Oakland University in Huntsville Alabama today it's part two of our discussion where we address how to identify whether or not God has called you to ministry and what confirmations of his calling look like along the way this episode was sponsored by the Adventist learning community a platform that offers free online courses and resources relevant to you if you'd like to listen to some of our previous episodes related to faith and theology or catch them behind the scenes follow us on instagram or facebook at Advent next my co-host today is once again Michelle odenma you can follow her at the handle Michelle odenma music as always I'm your host Kendra Arsenal and this is at that next so we've talked about evangelism and you know doing the mission you put on the programs you do all this and then what about retention because that's been a big issue for a lot of people from North American division pastors how do you maintain or keep all of those people who stood up and came forward to make commitment I think the same emphasis that we have on recruitment we must have on retention so the same level of intent intentionality with resources money people and the level of engagement we have to do that with retention and that requires work yeah that requires when the Evangelist and the Bible workers and the team are gone that the church has to engage in that same level of meant meant that was given to recruitment with retention so with that that means visitation has to continue programming has to continue and it has to continue with the level of excellence yeah that preceded it okay it has to so the same way we were intentional about children's ministries during the public evangelistic campaign we have to be intentional about that post the campaign yeah the visitation as I said the music as I said the technology and we can't be afraid to resource these things right what were those three things that you mentioned that we need to have like this you know people need to want to come oh so I was reading a book and if worship you know we talked about post the campaign if worship is to contribute to the growth of your church three things must be true number one members have to want to attend if members don't want to be there why would anyone else and for me the litmus test for me has always been my family if my wife if our kids if they don't want to be there then probably yeah the members don't want to be your father I'm saying yes I mean we can do technology we can do all different things we can pass out handbills what we used to do years ago or flyers about our church and whatnot but but if your people don't want to be there why would anyone else yeah number two your members have to be proud to invite guests yeah okay so members after one and ten and the members have to want to invite others to attend so word-of-mouth you know when we move to a city yeah we can go online and we look at the area we can look at school districts we can look at houses you know with with real estate books or online catalogs or whatever you want to call it yeah but the greatest impact on where we live when we move to a city is a word of mouth testimony yeah if we know someone in that city and they tell us this is a good this is good house we're gonna weigh that more heavily so the same is true with Church if members are proud to invite their friends there you gotta come to my church you've got to hear my pastor hear our music see our ministry offerings that is gonna weigh more heavily yeah then if someone just reads about it so number one members have to one to ten number two they have to be proud to invite guests and so often in our churches don't come this week this one's speaking don't come this week this one's singing her I don't want you to come no every time the door is open yeah it has to be such so to the original question how do we retain people the same way we were intentional about recruiting people yeah we have to have that with the retention of people okay and then thirdly whoever attends is eager to return yeah okay so those three things I think are critical and that's in my book those three things are critical in terms of the retention of people so after the same way we're like you've got to come members are excited about coming to the public evangelistic campaign then that same way they're excited about coming to church the same way they were willing to invite people to come to the campaign they're willing to invite people to come to church and then whoever comes is eager to return yeah so the attainment since analogy that was placed earlier has to be placed post and I think that if that doesn't happen it's almost like false advertising exactly it's like oh and then they started tending and it's like what happened to all the energy so we sang in the public campaign all these great praise courses yeah in songs and then we give jerk well we don't do anymore that was for that no yeah this is who we are yes you know any business model will tell you what got you growth is what you need to continue doing exactly so tell me a little bit about yourself okay tell me a little bit about like your personal journey with Christ so as I share with you fit generation 7 evidence paternally am eternally so Church you know I grew up in the church and that's not a bad thing so I don't have a testimony that I was out there and hmm you know then I came back important right I've never drunk in my life I've never smoked in my life yeah I've never done drugs in my life I got married that I had kids and it's some you know and some people say well you're just a white-collar Adventist well I thank God for my journey amen in the same way I am appreciative of someone else's testimony that may not be my testimony or their journey is different I praise God you know if God spoke to somebody who had been involved in certain things and then they felt the voice of God I celebrate that mm-hmm and by the same token and Ruina being reciprocal here yeah I want someone to celebrate the journey yeah but I had god-fearing parents yes they brought me up the way they did and I praise God I'm here yeah okay but but I still had my experience my encounter with the Lord Jesus but I grew up the PK my father's a pastor a mother church school educator I'd never forget a pastor not my father but a pastor said to me if you want to go in ministry run as far away from it as you can and if the Lord calls you back to it you'll know that's where that it was the Lord right so I double majored in theology Bachelor of Arts and theology and a Bachelor of Science in business management with an emphasis in accounting one summer made great money I worked for the ITT life insurance company Hartford Connecticut where all the insurance companies are made great money but it wasn't what God had called me to do ministry and dealing with people was what the Lord had called me to do and so I was how did you come to that like what did that look like internally because how did God speak to you saying this is not for you this is not what you were built to do because I was happy but I was not as happy not fulfilled yeah you know but not as happy you know sappy but not as I was born to do what I'm doing okay so when I got back my senior year at Oakwood you know and that was my journey to go this way I was like mm I'm doing ministry I'm gonna do ministry now I thought that I was gonna take the financial or Treasury track okay now before I finish smoking would I had offers the I never forget the Ohio State University offered me a full fellowship to get my MBA they were gonna pay me a stipend pay my education you know I had people telling me all you need to do that get that done you'll be fine you know but I didn't feel that's what the Lord was calling to do but I thought I was gonna go to the financial way specifically I thought I was gonna be working conference Treasury yeah and I thought that my contribution because I had a love for evangelism and that's what I knew growing up I felt we needed more people on the financial side of church ministry treasurer's that understood yes Treasury but also understood Treasury exists to support the ministry in the end the pursuit of mission so I felt I could pass her a little while but I would eventually go through the Treasury route and I would be of support and and that's how I felt I was gonna go yeah how did that change that change speak okay and with that okay so I went to Mississippi I shared that story and so that evangelism started getting in my bones hmm did I pass through the place Tuscaloosa Alabama I ran a 10th crusade renovated the church I was like man this is getting my bones and if the Lord was blessing with a measure of success and and we deemed success as numeric success okay then I got to Nashville Tennessee and in Nashville Tennessee still thinking in my mind I'm on this business track I enrolled at Tennessee State University to get my MBA okay so I enrolled I'm going to get my MBA cuz my track is going I'm up get Pat I'm a pastor get ordained and then I'm going to rection in Nashville my life changed okay in Nashville I was asked to Pastor a church here that was founded as a result of a evangelistic series so I was the actual first pastor okay so you talked about retention and whatnot just kind of how that ties in so at the time the conference evangelist and the team of the conference evangelism team they came ran a meeting I had a series of campaigns and baptized like 150 people okay so the conference president says to me we're gonna move you from Tuscaloosa Alabama to Nashville Tennessee to be the first pastor here he knew my work ethic and whatnot and he was like we need you to come so I was like okay I never forget when I got there he handed me the roster of the church and he's like don't lose these people okay right now I'm young now 30 don't lose these people so when the Evangelist left the entire team left just me so I have this roster until six people don't lose these and at the time I'm not ordained yet so I'm thinking that yeah a part of whether or not I get ordained and that track is gonna be based on how well I do yeah here so my man I can't lose these people so there was no church building we're work because this a new congregation right so we're worshiping in a school okay okay and School Auditorium is not the best-looking cuz you know we have to you know go what we can afford and you need to understand now not only the human resource is gone but the economic resources for this church are gone okay so gives me the roster and so I'm like look I gotta go visit these people and I have to visit these people weekly in order to keep these people because they don't know me yeah so I have to keep these people so I start visiting them so I have the roster and I'm looking at the roster and the roster says 125 Main Street 127 Main Street 129 Main Street okay so I'm thinking these are all single dwelling places homes or whatnot hmm little did I know that these were all apartment units in public housing complexes okay so these are all public housing complexes in city project areas so most of the people there are from very very humble backgrounds so many of the persons don't have cars and they don't have the means you know they've heard this message they're excited many of them are still smoking many of them still drinking because all this is very very new to them but to the best they knew how they had joined this church accepted Christ and Here I am white collar evidence yeah visiting all these people and God changed my life mm-hmm and he changed my life and he helped me understand that the sub same blood of Jesus that was flowing in my veins that's right it's the same blood Jesus that was flowing in these individuals veins yes and though their background may not have been mine they still were children of the Most High God that's right God changed my life and I went from being a bougie a penis hmm you know a white-collar evidence I went from religion to a relationship amen and I started falling in love with those people and I was married that time my wife we love the people you know we had to keep the people we would visit them take them the doctor's appointments take them groceries I mean and just we fell in love I'm talking about how God will change you and change your mindset so all of a sudden now I'm still in MBA school while I'm pastoring okay but I'm loving on these people and and God is moving and so I started conducting evangelistic series and I'm looking up God is blessing and God starts blessing where we're running three campaigns a year and we're baptizing by God's grace over 100 people annually Wow the Lord's he's doing some mighty thing fear and and he's changing me in this process right well I'm not looking at people I'm not looking at the organization the same because I care about these people yes you know and I'm not mad at the organization because people in leadership they are who they are I'm not mad at them they're who they are but I start caring about these people so we start running evangelistic campaigns they're excited they're bringing the people to church we're baptizing people we begin a building program and God blesses us to build from the ground up a brand spanking new church building Wow right so I mean this thing is changed in my life yeah okay so the call is being affirmed that's right okay now not that God wasn't with me in Mississippi when we baptize those three people not that God wasn't with us when we were in Tuscaloosa Alabama and we renovated the church and we were baptizing people but I'm saying God show himself yeah in a mighty way all right so we're there the Lord is blessed in the four years that were there 300 people get baptized we build a church I get an invitation under 30 years old to pastor in Houston Texas at the mother church there so I'm going there you know building is not what it should be the attendance you know mother church is not what it should be like I'll go big city I'm looking at potential mother church so I get there I'm like we're gonna change up on the music we're gonna become more seeker sensitive I remember taking the church board we said we're gonna have a church board meeting at an advantage of evangelical church that is not necessarily within our faith and you all probably know too Terry it's the Lakewood Church with Joel Osteen and I said we're not going for doctrine but I want to have board meeting there because we're gonna figure out how is it that he this this church has twenty five thousand people right coming on a weekly basis right we don't know what they're preaching till we get in there but the fact is 25 thousand people are coming okay in the seven eight minutes Church we don't have those kind of numbers except the conference in session so we need to ask ourselves what are they doing yeah that is I say so I'm not being a heretic we're going to find out what they're doing because if we match our message with some of their methods sure I just believe the Lord is gonna bless in a mighty way we win and the church because sometimes you can show people better you can tell them yes and so we went everyone went from the time we drove on the parking lot to the time we went to the service you can see a centrality of focus so when we walk in even the Houston Police Department they're helping us Park you know it's almost like welcome to Lakewood we're glad you're here it's not Park here and don't move your car there and you know welcome we're glad to hear Pastor Joel is happy that you're here I'm like okay okay it's pretty nice all right yeah we get to the doors the greeters there we're glad you're here and you know it's genuine it's authentic you know Pastor Joel is happy that you here you're in for powerful experience today we walk in the church doors the ushers are there come on to your seat and whatever they're singing for praise and worship the ushers are singing it as they're inviting you to a seat so it's not like I wish those people would hurry up and sit down it's too loud it's too long everybody is a part of this worship experience we sit there I'm looking at the technology I'm looking at the music the message very simplistic very practical and we leave so after church is over we have dinner at our church and then we say let's discuss this and so we just start discussing some things that we can begin to implement fast for God blesses four and a half year three years I'm sorry three years after pastoring there 500 people are baptized so then after that again God is a foaming sure the calling that's so important because there's people who are listening right now who are thinking am I called to ministry and how do I know if God is calling me and you're basically saying look for the signs of God affirming you in your he's affirming right so so remember now the affirmation was received when I had those two people yeah and three people were baptized then you go from there you go from to Tuscaloosa then you go to Nashville you see what God has do I mean we built a church where our population was primarily from humble backgrounds okay then we go to Houston in three years five hundred people baptized then from there I get the call to go to Atlanta Berea okay can I question real quick so you're making a number of church transitions and I think one of my questions is how do you deal with like member pushback because did any of that happen because a lot of people will talk to a church yep-yep particularly though I praise God for his favor yeah and favor is not fair yeah but I praise God for favor okay yeah and you have pushback but no one is gonna argue where people give their lives to Christ mm-hmm okay mm-hmm okay no no one and I'm very passionate about evangelism and Adventist education yes so those older members that are sitting there like this guy's bringing news read it but but he's doing right when some things that man what yeah yeah he's doing what the Abin Sur and they're seeing result results yes okay and there's some unconventional things I mean I'm inviting not even his music artist in the church yeah you know but they're seeing this this is working yeah okay so from there from Houston I get the call to become the senior pastor of the Atlanta Berean Church now the Atlanta area Church for North America is our largest seventh-day Adventist Church that is not connected to an institution so there's no college no hospital no boarding academy it's just a standalone Church at the time I had just turned 34 years old so there was a lot of you know he's going you know you know he's young and so you got to deal with that the challenge that some of my colleagues were having yeah why him not me hmm okay and so I went in there and and I did what got me there yeah we don't win souls for Christ amen and the Lord blessed the Lord blessed I mean in the five and a half years I was there eighteen hundred people got baptized Wow 1800 1800 now the church was already large yeah but 800 people got baptized we went from one service to multiple services yeah and that second service it was almost like we shut down God was awesome and is awesome the city you couldn't get through that we had higher Atlanta police officers to do do parking and the Lord blessed us we got a 5.2 million grant from United States Department of Housing and Urban Development to build us 50 apartments senior citizen complex and we had someone donate to us they saw what we were doing they had someone someone donated an apartment complex unit 8 units to us we turn into a women's shelter hmm our old church that set across the street we were able to buy back we turned that into a community center where we opened a barber shop a beauty salon a clothes closet and food pantry I mean he was doing some all God's doing some awesome things again affirming yes the call yes and so when when people are saying to your question like did you have opposition yeah you have opposition but stay focus the Lord was moving then the Brethren from North America laid hands on and said we want to try something different where the media ministry breath of life which is akin to it is written faithful today was a prophecy or not we want you to do that in addition to pastoring the church so I said okay you try it out so our television ministry breadth of like that arm came aboard and so we were able to broadcast from a local church yeah and then the call came to Oakwood and I felt that in going to Oakwood you know what the Lord had blessed us with in ministry we could model at Oakwood and young people will be able to experience and be a part of it and then they would be able to go out and and model it when they left the Lord is blessed can I so you know all of these things that happen the the shelter and these I think my question is how did you make sure that this would continue after you left right but you weren't the the vehicle driving everything so that you disappeared and then everything falls on its face well the reality is you try to put things and infrastructure in place okay but as you know in this church it's a movement yeah so the reality is you know you don't to be accused of meddling and whatnot when you leave you have to leave yeah when you leave that know it you know god bless good successor so the building that was across the street mm-hmm that is still there yeah the senior citizens apartment complex you know that's there you know the church is still there you know so I praise God for that okay got to oak wood Lord has blessed in the eight years I've been there over 500 people have been baptized in an institutional church setting yeah we are finishing up we God blessed us to build our cave eight refurbished our elementary school build the middle school with a new gym cafeteria miniscule classrooms and in the spring of 2020 the new nine to twelve high school building will be done hmm god bless us to build a new Family Life Center with Jim and there we have a barbershop we have a health food store we have a medical clinic just got the contract for all the veterans of North Alabama where their annual physicals take place in our clinic and these are residual income revenue generating entities that help fund ministry clothing ministry food ministry I praise God for being a part of what he's doing because reality is he could use somebody else yes you know he used somebody else and so I'm excited so all of these things have contributed to that call and I'm so grateful to be a part yeah what would you say so you had a huge influx you know in Atlanta eighteen hundred men that you know so what would you recommend as far as churches who are looking to grow should they when their facilities are no longer able to house maybe the growth that they're having should they invest that in creating a new church plant in the community maybe targeting a new demographic or should they focus maybe on expanding that that same church good question so in different times in my career I would answer that question in a different way so there was a part of me that used to say you know start a new church because the DNA of that church can be you know a certain thing and they're still married in that the flip side of that is you have to have the resources to support that I think the day is over we're a new church plant that people are going to be within this society in North American society that we're gonna be in a storefront if you will and there's not a defined period of time you're gonna be in there you know I think you know if we're gonna start a new fellowship a new church a new ministry I think the resources have to be in place to support that I think gone are the days we say we're just gonna start a church gonna have any Vangelis come in with a plan a church I'm gonna start every one all the resources need human and economic and then you're not there to keep that going when you talk about a church planning you talk about planning it right there must be a commitment beyond the initial evangelistic initiative to keep that thing going mm-hmm if we're gonna do it right if not it's gonna continue to be a struggle so now I'm at the point well it's this let's go to multiple let's go to multiple worship experiences you know or let's try the campus approach where you're still one Church but you may have different campuses because someone has to own that new group yeah yeah with people and finances so either you know I'm now let's look at the multiple service approach or let's look at the campus approach but somebody has to own those new members it can't be a mindset oh we're just about jaws 50 people they're out on their own now No you gotta still own that group yeah a discipleship process yeah right and I think sometimes too maybe we have a too big of an idea of what church is and like how do we scale down for for the resources is there a place for like say there are 50 new members and the church is growing and maybe the facilities aren't housing and we do want to see if we can plan a new church is there merit and maybe not be more simple having more of a simple Church rather than something that was more traditional yeah I think there's mirror for that yes I also think and I'll be honest kyndra you know I think we have to have a restructuring of our resources okay I'm not saying this at a conference level or a union level or division level original conference level I'm not saying it's not important but this over here may be more important yeah yeah if you have strong churches you have a strong conference yeah if you have a strong conferences you have a strong Union if you have strong unions you'll have a strong division if you have strong divisions you have a strong General Conference yeah but it starts at the church that's the most important level of this denomination the local church yeah how do you so for ministers coming up they may see what's going on and they're like oh I want to be a part of that how do you encourage them to take what they've seen take what they've learned and heard and go do it on their own instead of joining what's already happening go make it instead of be a part of exactly you got to encourage them and you got you have to encourage them you have to let them know yes you can yeah and do this but that's becoming hard today yeah because a lot of pastors like look I want to be a part right right yeah I mean I'm hearing and I'm like well let me go [Laughter] you gotta encourage them I think we have to we have to identify ways and identify resources where people won't fail yeah and where they want to be a part of it mm-hmm and that takes vision hmm not just seeing what is but what can't be sure and I think we ought to identify just the same way we use in the local church with our members spiritual gifts I think with our employees we have to understand spiritual gifts and I think we have to be transparent with our employees to help them understand this is your giftedness this is your giftedness and we want to do our best to get everyone to operate in their giftedness yes just because this is your gift miss this other person's gift does not mean this gift is way is heavily weighted more than this gift it's okay if we identify certain employees with certain gifts to do certain things that is not favor to discredit right that's not a discredit to you and I think we need to be more transparent or realistic yes and humble we do and-and-and-and with personnel placement yeah from administrative levels to local church levels we need people just like in the local church to operate in their giftedness right it sounds like you've been have the pioneer spirit you know that you're ready to take on something with that looks like it's nothing but God is giving you a vision to see what it could be rather than what it is that's right what would you give advice to other pioneers because I see like this has been a very long journey to getting to where you're at so people who have that visionary spirit who are willing to start in humble beginnings what are some of the challenges and what's some of the advice that you would recommend giving them yeah first of all you got keep keep pressing you got to keep plowing you know the expression nothing good comes easy you know cuz some people think Oh Carlton burns the golden child they have no clue yeah what a day for me in tells you know and I'm like that almost like a duck I know that's bad you see now but those feet paddling under that water yeah it's like now you know we're here we're talking we're doing this podcast but I'm planning for December of 2020 I'm looking ahead to December of 2021 you know I'm saying there are some things that are in an incubator if you will mm-hmm and they hatch later on but they got to get in the incubator mm-hmm so you know it's a process but you got keep paddling underneath for what before we go one last question okay is what has been the biggest challenge you know I think everyone has kind of a Jacob's thigh you know that part of them that's been crippled and that they now lean upon god that much more heavily what has been the biggest challenge in your life in your career that you it keeps you leaning upon the Lord being misunderstood because a lot of times people project yeah what they think mm-hmm onto you thinking that's how you think right no so far it's it's I don't wanna do is build a kingdom yeah but a lot of times it's misunderstood but you gotta keep pressing on you know I tell myself all the time the higher the level the higher the devil okay but being misunderstood and so I can't get muddy in that yeah I got a khaki personal thanks so much for listening in we hope you were inspired with the message stay tuned for next week where we talk with dr. Nicholas Miller who has a background in law and a PhD in religion as we discuss how to navigate the sticky world of faith and politics if you have suggestions for future episodes please leave us a comment below once again we'd like to thank our guest dr. Carlton bird and the Adventist learning community for making this program possible if you want to keep up to date with our latest thoughts and episodes please follow us on Instagram Facebook or YouTube at the handle advent next see you next week

Channel: Advent Next Theological Podcast

Views: 781

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: carlton byrd, ministry, the call to ministry, Adventist, Adventist church, sda, adventism, seventh-day adventist, bible study, ellen white, Andrews university, Andrews theological seminary, TED, ted, tedtalks, ted talks, how to study the bible, bible podcast, church podcast, Christian podcast, podcast, seminary, seminars, Kendra Arsenault, advent next, advnt nxt, advent next theological podcast, advent next podcast, Mike Todd, Steve Furtick, Bible Project

Id: n42Ey6XTuTk

Length: 34min 58sec (2098 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 06 2020