How can Gambian returnee migrants be best re-integrated into their societies? | Street debate

this week on the 77% street debate nothing is being done here this country is not ready it's not able to handle these returnees I have supports another anybody I cannot support returnees forever we are feeling our young people and we are continuing to feel our young people the Gambia is responsible for the highest number of people emigrating per capita than any other African nation and that's truly shocking if you consider the size of the population here but now a lot of young people are coming back in fact the International Organization for Migration estimates that on a monthly basis over a hundred returnees are stepping right back into this country question is is the country prepared to take care of them and who better to answer this question for me than actual Gambians and we'll begin with mr. Denvir here he's actually one of the people who left the country as an immigrant and he decided to take the back route known because it is the irregular way of going how was that journey for you was it worth it how long did it take just give me a little insight into what happened yeah the journey was shown her to me I checked her from Senegal after Senegal to a mile and then the first day I came to Emily you know they they they kept my boss they said if you don't pay money you are not going out to to the prison here in Mali so I was talking money I tried to get that money P they leave me there having a last check point that time is it so difficult checkpoints before you pass that place so and then you know they are when you come there they would actually money if you don't bring money they would beat you and then once you crack okay uma camera you're one of the very few women actually because statistically women from The Gambia don't migrate it's men who make up 97 percent of those people who are leaving and I'm curious to know as a woman if that journey was more difficult for you and if the government has been there for you since you returned it was very difficult with me I don't succeed and I destroyed a lot of money yeah they kidnapped me there after I get the kid McVie do I get the a technique problem before I am coming I meet IOM they are take care of me because the time I was going there at the camp in a goddess that was much tuition is very dangerous but thank God I a very take care of me take me to the hospital and return me back you understand so a lot of gratitude being expressed particularly to IOM which I find interesting one more dose Emily you are a social analyst do you think that the Gambia is too heavily dependent on international organizations to solve a local problem that's for sure because Gambia doesn't have the capacity to handle this and Gambia has every right to depend on those international organizations international organizations I don't think they're doing well I think there's a lot of smoke screens and minerals in here of course the girl is saying she's tanking the National Youth Council without them she would not speak here so these are some of the problems from the National Youth Council to the International Organization for Migration the EU projects all they are interested in if it's in a few success stories that they can run and put on billboards in the country nothing is being done here this country is not ready it's not able to handle these returnees and it's better for the international community to make sure that our young people are kept there I'm not saying forever and look for durable long-term situations you're now talking about people who were forcibly repatriated back into their countries but these ones returned voluntarily these are Gambians where should they be taken where should they go well they should come here what I am saying here is and we know what's happening in Libya they came back from Libya because according to a net and unless the International report the European Union was collaborating with these Libyans to torture and enslave our young people sorry I can't allow you to say such preposterous things without backing I mean we don't know we're dealing in fact there's no reason to reason s the International report I can send you the link immediately after this of this after his confession okay so some very serious accusations being leveled not just against the EU but international organizations that you're just here for the PowerPoint presentations at the end of the year are you effective as IOM or any UN agency or any international organization our role in any country is to support the government to address its concerns and a huge part of that is as rightly mentioned perhaps back in 2017 there was a limited capacity on behalf of the government to manage this issue but I think at the same time it's a bit unfair to say that any international organization will solve the entire problem on its own Iowans expertise is an AVR R which is assisted voluntary return and reintegration so many of these individuals Moustafa Demba were in a situation in Libya that they just could not stay in it's inhumane and we believe the humane assistance to provide to them is a system in returning home and when they're home we can provide them reintegration in the form of skills training in the form of setting up a micro business but at the same time we understand that IOM cannot support returnees forever and I think we all need to work together with many different organizations to address this issue one of them being of course the National Youth Council the IOM as his as my co has rightly said is not here for the long haul what are your plans for people like Denver and Umi you know 20 30 years from now and for the thousands of others who still haven't reached the shores of the Gambia I think as I've mentioned yes they are supporting but wellness is an international organization and it's a turn and it's obvious but they cannot do it all they are here to complement the government efforts discussions are really on to answer that government takes the lead in the process not allowing necessarily international partners taking the lead mr. Chowdhury you are part of this government you are a representative of government and you're speaking as though it's a foreign entity what are you doing what have you done we are a council established by a government sort of as an amiable government under the Minister what we do is basically advising government in terms of what are the needs of young people and it's our responsibility and so it is provided for them okay so what has been provided yeah I said now what has been provided is coming from IOM in terms of providing them training or support what we want is to ensure we see examples of that much coming from government to say this is what government is doing and not just continuing to cut to say this is what I am have done and the current reality is most of what we could is coming from RM so the question is to answer that we work with government and we can bring out examples to say government has provided at a million dollars or ten million dollars and this is where it has been invested in terms of supporting young people we didn't want to continue coaching to say IOM has supported or to say the year in the past water but we weren't and so we are able to say as a government this is what we have done and we have led the process of supporting our young people I'm not continuing to rely all right let me come back to Mustafa here because you know we're hearing from the NYC that they have plans these are things that we might happen in the future but you're already doing something about it do you think your government has let you down I think with what they are providing it is not definitely reaching it the mass though there are people who've benefited like me but can you tell me how you benefited through NYC we've secured some trainings you know our members through I we've got our reintegration packages which is not quite handsome to start something but at least we've got something from them but that's not enough and that's not what we were thinking of after losing almost everything most of the returnees I can say not receiving the supports which we really need we are also doing our best as our attorneys to make sure that we put more awareness on the minds of the returnees and make sure that they are very integrated for Cle and at least they have something to hold on to what do I want to come back to you because you were very passionate about the issue of deportation is it immoral for Western governments to return or repatriate young Gambians back to this economic situation yeah I think it's immoral at several levels I told you about the role of these very Western governments that destroyed our society our culture and everything through coal colonialism that's one part the second part is the Western government is very aware of the Gambia's particularly unique situation we came away from what they call 22 years of brutal dictatorship this whole country almost went into flames in December 2016 thanks to the collaboration of international community we were able to avert a catastrophe now the situation of this migration I don't even call it illegal is just migration it's been there for years I am NOT saying this young people should not return I'm not saying that at all because I know the situation in Europe I know ultimately they have to come when I'm saying this whole rush to bring them back as if this problem started today I think that's morally wrong because they know our situation they know we had a coalition government that they assured in that coalition government right now has been torn apart they are trying to get to each other's fruits we account to deal with the situation in December we don't know what's gonna happen via Gambians we are peaceful we hoping for a peaceful resolution of this potential impasse the international communication and community community knows this why do they want to push these young people to come here these young people have traveled they've gone through death narrated some of the brutal circumstances they have gone through some of these people have been exposed to drugs some of them have been exposed to arms so forcefully pushing these young people Audient lis right now it's like like striking a match on a grassland that's dry and fully wet with petrol okay I want to ask with another social analyst if you share the same opinion do you think it's unfair to expect Germany France or any other European nation for that matter to hold on to your citizens until you're ready I think the European countries have their own interest we have our own interest and the whole issue has been politicized to some extent securitized by politicians both in Europe and also in Africa currently I don't think the Gambia is ready to receive all these migrants who are in Germany or in or in Spain or in Italy or in Scandinavia why because already we have social distress in this country we have demographic dynamics which are playing against the country we have likely mentioned over 40 percent unemployment we have a lot of young people roaming our streets doing nothing I think what we have failed to do is we have known the problem exists it's a big but why we always focusing on the economic aspects of it there are socio-cultural aspects for this problem how do we solve these problems how do we bring all these boys back without creating a cataclysmic tuition in our country so we've been talking about deportation but I think it's important to recognize that there are those people who come back voluntarily and I just want to find out from you Miko what percentage of returnees are from Europe and what percentage are from Africa um so basically since 2017 IOM has assisted in the return of over 4,200 returnees an overwhelming majority of of them are from Africa the volunteer attorneys from Europe don't even amount to a hundred out of that an overwhelming majority of them are from Libya 3,000 of those are from Libya so 3,000 of the returnees be persisted since 2017 coming are coming from Libya but right now we're seeing a trend of lesser attorneys from Libya but more from Nisha actually so it really is along that route in Africa that we're seeing most individuals opting to return home okay so coming back to you mama do because if most of them have not even reached the shores of Europe and they want to come back and you're saying we're not ready as a country what do they do for those in Libya and the situation is very dire I think the wisest solution is to bring them back but still like we've all agreed here the Gambia in this most unique situation right now can't handle this and none of the statements here has convinced me that the Gambia is ready for this unlike dr. CSIS said it's not only at the economic levels at the social level they are coming back to families that sold some of the the communal land to get this able to go to this this country now coming back besides the economics which is actually fundamentally important it's about the social stigma that this will have to deal with like it family sacrifice so the plot of land when you didn't make it you're coming back we don't have a single proper institution that would that can handle people who have mental issues we know of an issue of an attorney that was a tonka tonka one of the institutions that deal with through people with mental problems this guy killed two people so these issues are so complex I am NOT saying those in Libya for instance I'm using English we should not come back but the international community international organizations like IOM should go beyond the billboards and the very flashy short they throw about in social media and come down to the level of the people and help people okay so speaking of social issues I want to come back to Denver because you actually told me that you lost both your parents during your time in Libya and you ended up breaking your foot in fact you were telling me that it was hurting earlier now when you came back did you have a support system where your friends good to you did they treat you differently no I don't have support you know anybody so my only problem my brother was supporting me I went to IOM different the same time they tell me they will support you support me but still now I want to talk to you me here for a second because you you were recounting something horrific that you were not only kidnapped but you had kidney failure so you come back to the country did you get psychological help did you get financial help I don't without any I have one health without my family it's national your council but they are doing a lot for me because my doctor in Gambia was telling me your treatment it cannot be here it cannot be here I have to go to the car then I got go to data that I'll also tell me I have to do dialysis that they can help me but it's not that it's not a treatment but what is the treatment is kidney transplant planning and for sure how to call it National Youth Council they don't have that money to help me for that and far too here is your friend far too I also understand that you took that trip all the way did you make it to Libya and have you received any support forget even the government from your family and from your friends they welcome you back or did they start treating you differently no I I thank God for my family and my friends it was the time I came back here they are the only people who give me support to survive by this time because the other one who helped me to give me some money to poor for something for my so so I'm thank God for them okay I want to come to Mustapha money our journalist here what is the attitude for the young people of Gambia who never left the country who then see people like Umi and Mustafa being I would even call it showered you know because it might look that way from the outside what is the attitude of those who never left they usually see people who return as failure some of the youths for one reason is those who succeed and cross us usually categorized as breadwinners who ask successful people because of how they manage portrayed themself on social media as one of the key influencer when it comes to this irregular migration for example if you go to social media today you find so many so many fake pictures by our Gambian migrants living in Italy or in Germany fancy picture that doesn't match with the real situation that really force them to go so those who return after all the sacrifice because understand a person that is illegal or irregular migration is the last choice for every huge considering the nature of the Gambia the suppression the poverty the huge had been neglectful so many years so they felt hopeless so spending that huge amount of money and been in Libya on that mental torture the kidnapping and again like at the end of the day you are returned back to the country your people are more something I've seen you are severely so let me come back to you because it sounds like the more we dig into this issue the more complex it appears to be so what needs to happen to resolve it if every step towards resolution compounds into another one I think what we should admit is that we have failed our young people we are feeling our young people and we are continuing to feel our young people that's not that's not the kind of news I want to be putting out because we don't have I mean how can you leave such a national project which should be responsibilities of the state to IOM as a responsibility this our citizens what plans have we got for the future what are we doing not in fact avert and show that in 2020 in 2030 2035 we are not standing here again talking about the same issue why this is happening now it's because we have failed to build a country for these people that is why they want to leave anybody who besides to die in the ocean than stay in your own code as a problem in your country that's a cultural political economic system that's a problem in our country how can we ensure that the young ones don't follow the same path it's not gonna stop what is for me now what is the solution going forward what can we do to ensure that we have all young people to stay where are they living there must be a reason why the why question is what as a researcher I'm interested in why are young people wanting to leave 0.5% of Gambians every I want to leave that they migrate why for me that is the question and we will fail the generation we are continue to fail our generations for me in as much as we have to put policies and systems in place to receive them to make sure we integrated back into society but we should also ensure that we come up with policies probably ensure that we rectify this whole mess because it's a mess nobody wants your citizens to be dying in this in Libya in Nazaire trying to reach Europe we have about 16,000 my Gambians young people in Germany what I'm going to do with those people we're gonna bring them back like that it's not even it's going to be a logistical nightmare for the Germans have been bring those 16,000 but it's a problem ok before we get to NYC just on the on the topic of reintegration as a solution to deter future irregular migrants how does that work how does one become reintegrated back into their own country we have a team of reintegration assistants who is able to counsel these returnees engage what their interests are what their skills are and really tailor reintegration package toward what we think would work for a returnee now I think that one thing we can do more of and you know as an international organization we're always ready to admit where we can improve a lot of this reintegration happens on an individual basis so there are questions of sustainability especially when it comes to how communities are being supported so one thing we want to do with IOM is to shift reintegration to be community-based what that means is to develop project for attorneys that involve the entire communities to be able so we can ensure that other individuals who have not yet migrated irregularly can benefit as well from these projects mr. Raju the IOM has a game plan for the future what's yours I think first the discussion is to answer from the start a lot of Miss young ones that are living don't have the right schooling don't have a scale when they get out there unless they're going to come back the medical doctor in Germany or in Europe wouldn't be brought back home as a Gambia engineer who is a Gambian in UK it's obvious one second please we must not conflate issues we are talking about irregular migrants there there must be hundreds of thousands of Gambians living all across the world who are there regularly yes allow me to learn the point for me the point of departure is to and so we first walk on and so that the quality of education we are providing for our young people be it in The Gambia or bit outside the Gambia they're able to be meaningfully employed if you look at the country right now government is the primary employer in any country where you have government as the primary employer is going to be a lot of unemployment so we need to answer them as a government able to work provide that condition environment for the private sector to drive so that is able to grow on a business I provided implement that they need okay I'm sorry mr. judge I really have to jump in here because you're sitting on the National Youth Council surely there must be an agenda for 2020 2030 things that are already in place you mean to tell me these are all discussions happening in the ether nice and ashes are mentioned the government's agenda in the NDP and so that dies a high amount of unemployment so a government in the Block in the very short term wants to reduce this minimum is twenty five percent that is being able to provide immediate employment for the young people how do we answer that environment is definitely conducive said that as I said businesses able to drive and employment is been able as employment is created for this young people in the long run while in the solder on showed that they are able to stay back home once the risk continues to be high tendencies they would suddenly leave this country and continue okay let me ask you know I'm not a Gambian but I'm not convinced I want to ask the people standing at the back there are you convinced that the government is working to ensure that not only Gambians return but also the ones who are here remain come closer please basically we are not focused if I said we are referring to the government here because this government as we speak is a transitional government and as a transitional government it should look more into institutional reforms understand so in addition to that also since 2017 up to date how many grants have we received and loads in this country it's far more than 20 times the whole population because if you talk about 1.8 million we are talking about 11 million euros you are talking about 20 million euro support from the World Bank you are talking about other EU support so basically where are we put in all these funds that's one thing and another thing how can we create jobs for those who are in the country and those who are come in to join us so basically we need to you know look from different perspective those who travel how many people are in the country who are unemployed so if we are saying these people have to come back and create jobs for them then we need to redouble our efforts and we should not depend entirely on donor agencies we pay taxes and you know the taxes that we pay if we put it into good use we can create more jobs since the coming of this government how many new companies have we seen or institutions that can employ more than 1000 Gambians we have not seen it so basically we need to work more all right I like that we need to work more what works in your opinion what keeps people in their homes well I think first of all and I think as all they all rightly mentioned people need to have a reason to stay here um we can raise awareness and share information about the dangers of the back way but if people don't have a reason or any alternative to stay in the country then our efforts will be for nothing so I think to be fair to many in the Gambia there a lot of for example EU funded initiatives like the youth empowerment project projects implemented by GI Z the Belgian development cooperation all working toward skills development and youth empowerment so I think it's really building that root causes and I don't want to speak on behalf of these organizations not that's not Iowans mandate but I think we all need to work together with these organizations because that's what's going to create an environment which gives our youth a reason to stay in the country ok and very quickly doctor is well I want to finish with you what do you think the Gambia needs looking forward so that we're not here discussing the same thing two years from now we need to have an open mind all these young people have skills and Potenza we must try to develop otherwise we'll be doing the same thing government cannot employ everybody but everybody's a businessman some people that were in sports in swimming in basketball in painting we need to explore all these sectors and see how we can help young people to develop their potentials so they can live in dignity if we kind of live in them in all countries we'll go and look for dignity in some other place and that is why we're taking you back way well and that's why we're going to conclude this conversation it's definitely very complex and multi-layered at the beginning we asked the question what does it take to get people to stop migrating irregularly the answer was resounding give them something to stay for thank you for watching [Music]

Channel: DW The 77 Percent

Views: 86,717

Keywords: DW, DW Africa, Africa, Gambia, the gambia, returnees from libya, migration, Gambian returnees, returnees, returnees to africa, IOM, international migration, international organisation for migration, Edith Kimani, edith kimani dw, Gambian migrants, Initiative for Migrant Protection and Reintegration in the Gambia, Niger, Mali, Marocco, Mauritania, Tunisia

Id: O0sQzP3k26s

Length: 26min 2sec (1562 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 18 2019