Home Schooling: Is a Home Education Healthy - The Thinking Atheist Radio Podcast #55

boldface blasphemy Houston everything I find it extremely hard to imagine open your eyes it is bite alright to be an atheist the fastest-growing group of people in the country has been measured as being this you have no belief or atheist you don't have to be apologetic or quiet about serving the opposition you see religion on a hundred fronts losing the argument and start thinking this is the thinking atheist worldwide you'll have to forgive me I've got kind of a raspy voice tonight I'm gonna give you what I got for what it's worth I've been looking forward to the show all day I posted a note earlier this morning saying we were going to be talking about homeschooling and a highly polarized response a very passionate debate on my Facebook page continues even now in almost 12 hours later what I expected was is as soon as I bring up homeschooling the vast majority of people were going to say geez it's it's it's the it's a surefire way to screw up your kids but that's not what happened now I'm gonna relate a perspective and I don't want you to jump down my throat if you are for homeschooling or you've had a positive experience because I'm going somewhere with this okay but being in the Midwest in a a great you know it's it's this there's a lot of good schools around here there there are a lot of great institutes of learning but a lot of people homeschool their children and almost I think all of them that I know do it in a religious capacity it's a Christian homeschool and I think I can safely say all of them are weird they're just hang on just hang on just hang on they were taken out of public school or they were never introduced to public school because of the evil influences out there in the world okay so to protect them from those evil influences these parents kept them home father goes off works a job full-time mom stays home raises the kids and home schools them and it's a Christian curriculum in my experiences of they're all Christian curriculums I know that there are atheist home schoolers we're going to get into that and I'm fascinated by it but the ones I've seen the ones around here that the examples that I have seen firsthand they're all six-day creation Noah's Ark Jesus died on the cross book of Revelation Bible believe in Bible teaching Christian based home school and they kept their kids out of public school because they wanted to protect them from all the stuff that there are for a teenagers who are eventually going to do like sex alcohol drugs and God forbid they ever used the word [ __ ] so they keep them home hmm I'm thinking about it and I've gotten here's a great story and you know he's a great kid I won't tell you I'll call him Sam his name isn't Sam but I'll call him Sam it was years ago he was an intern for the company that I work for and he was learning to video production I was going on a video shoot in South Carolina and I thought well this would be a great opportunity for him to come and learn the business he was an intern right he was he was kind of a shadow he was just sponging it up and so we hopped on a plane and we went now he's home schooled his mom is one of those stereotypical absolutely wispy Jesus G Jesus Jesus Jesus she can't really be this sweet Jesus Jesus Jesus types he comes to I don't know how many kids are in the family they're all squeaky clean and the guy is really smart as in book-smart he's in straight a smart as in he is he is one of those guys who will ace any test but getting him out into the world was like taking him to a foreign country we're on the plane and he's he's looking out the window Wow landed in South Carolina and we got delayed we got in late we go into the convenience store and you know we're both starving to death we don't want to spend 15 bucks for an airport hamburger everything was closed anyway so we find a convenience store in the city of our destination and we go in there and he picks up a couple of items and he comes out and I'm waiting in the car he's a coms out and he's got this stunned look on his face stunned look on his face hey man what happened he said man I got I got two items and they totally added up to $5 exactly and I had a five dollar bill in my hand yeah that's interesting huh I mean with tax two items plus tax was five dollars and I had a five dollar bill mm yeah that's um I'll alert the media you know Wow I mean you should have seen the kid in everything we did was like that now I've told the story before so if you've heard it forgive me and roll with it okay so we do the shoot and he's a hard-working kid he picks everything up he's got natural talent and again he is head smart books book smart and and even though he's a minnow in the ocean he is he seems like he's got so much promise so we're flying back and there's weather right there's weather and we get delayed flying I think through I'm gonna say it was Hughes Houston or Dallas we're delayed delayed delayed delayed we finally get on the first leg of our flight in in land in our city of connection and we are running I mean running through the airport hop on the tram run down the concourse up the escalator Ron Ron Ron Ron Ron and we get to our gate just in time to see the plane backing out last plane of the day we're stuck crap we're both exhausted so we find a Holiday Inn or whatever and we end up getting home the following day I get a phone call from his mother little sweet wispy wispy happy happy Jesus Jesus woman okay you just picture it whatever whatever picture is in your mind is this woman right by five foot four kind of fair-skinned blond hair probably born in Texas she's just got that thing you know Seth I just wanted to call you mm yeah and apologize apologize yes I felt terrible when I heard that you were delayed in Houston do you felt terrible it was stormy I mean what would you do well I prayed you see I prayed for traveling mercies when you and Sam we're going to South Carolina on your trip but I forgot to pray for traveling mercies for your return trip home and when I heard that you got delayed I felt just grieved in my spirit know I'm still a believer at this point I'm still a believer right I'm on the fence I'm kind of doing my little dance I'm kind of but I'm sitting there on the phone and I must have had the same look on my face that Dave Silverman had when he was on The O'Reilly Factor that look what what God punished us because he didn't say the prayer traveling mercies to get us home we had to spend an extra night in the Holiday Inn in Houston Texas God works in mysterious ways now I am thinking the whole time this woman is as sweet as cherry pie or whatever she's this huge hearted sweet wonderful good-natured positive person who is from another planet she thinks differently she talks differently she has this weird bizarre what she lives in like this the Christian version of Xanadu she's Wow I couldn't even relate I must have just said I don't know how long i sat there with my my mouth my jaw on the floor what what oh man now she is at home without think of his four kids and she is in charge of educating them about the world are you kidding me world's gonna eat them alive they're gonna give them and go out into the real world right the world where mommy's not there every day to pull up in the minivan mm-hmm make sure she knows who they're with and what they're doing at all times mmm I want you back by sundown every day say your prayers here let me cut your meat for you honey right they turn 18 and who knows where they go to cut let's say they don't go to a Christian cut well let's say they do go to a Christian College right which often are just as wild as anything else they go out into the world they're no longer sleeping in the little Brady Bunch monk beds at home they are now off in the the world and what happens well I'm guessing it's like pk the preacher's kid syndrome they either remain on the straight and narrow right they curl up into a cocoon and find some other bubble people and they all hang together and just live in a bubble together for four years till they graduate or or they take a little taste of the Apple you know what I'm saying they go whoa wait a minute there's a whole world out there you know Sam's gotta be 12 22 23 maybe 22 you know he'd go off to college for the first time unsupervised you know he go out there and look around in a college campus and go girls look they're everywhere did he swing Wadley the other way when someone offered him a drink did he say absolutely not it's against my religion or did he just did he just dive into the deep end and say oh yeah I'm going crazy I'm making up for lost time people and you know that's the problem that I have and I'm desperate for opinions other than mine I'm desperate to see other perspectives because where I where I stand on it is is from watching observing right through the fishtank I'm watching other people raise their children in a Christian home or yeah it's a devoutly Christian homeschool and it is there for their protection I don't want them influenced by the world I'm going to create a safe place a safe environment that I can control and I will then teach them what I want and I will teach them my way which in my mind causes a few problems first of all they are going to be eaten alive by the sharks in this world right they're gonna be eaten alive if they're gonna go out there with those wide eyes right some don't even have a freaking television in their house they don't even know what's going on in the world they can't participate in everyday conversation they're gonna go out and just get swallowed whole the second problem is and I lean to you those of you who are participants in homeschool what qualifies a parent to be able to teach algebra to a child I know a lot of great people a lot of great parents they're great parents are they qualified to teach history trig and tree the arts a lot of it's done online webinars and there were whole programs done right I was homeschooled for a couple of months at the end of a really bad school year is my fourth grade year I was in a private school I'll get to the fund in just a second I was in a private school called Temple Christian right and this school talk about another planet alright talk about another planet we wore slacks everyday slacks and we wore a tie on Wednesday because Wednesday was Chapel day we prayed before every we didn't really have a class it was called a pace program where you actually went at your own pace which is one thing I do like about homeschooling by the way but this wasn't a homeschool this is a private school but in my mom's fair and and one of the teachers is not even college-educated she just happens to be related to somebody well she's teaching children well mom said ah you're out so she takes a house out and she finishes us teaching us at home I don't remember really anything about it I don't remember anything about those couple of months that we spent home school except except it took us about two hours to finish what would have been a seven-hour school day it was awesome went through everything got it all done made our made our section that we were supposed to get done that day we made our goals we had goals every day make the goal make it good grade we're outside in the Sun man it was awesome and that's the one thing that I do like about the idea of teaching children at their own pace you got them in a class of 30 people are you being held back because we are playing to the one who is catching up but what qualifies a parent what qualifies a parent to be a child's teacher of whatever I don't know maybe there are enough online resources it's a highly polarized audience out there on this subject I told you what my experience has been for what it's worth I want to know what yours is my first call is three three seven you're on the thinking atheist podcast who's this hey Seth this is David in south Louisiana David I don't know what to do with this this particular topic I mean I think homeschooling could be beneficial if you do it right if you socialize your kids but it just seems so easy to screw up what's your perspective well I definitely agree with what you just said and that it can be beneficial but it's also incredibly easy to screw up I was home-schooled from seventh grade through my senior year in high school I was in public school from you know pre-k up through sixth grade and you know I was in a small town in Southeast Texas at the time and I think the only reason I was probably in public school to start with as opposed to private school is the only private school we had in town at the time was a Catholic school and well damned if my parents were gonna send me to a Catholic school you know right you know when it came down to it the reason they gave for wanting to start homeschooling me and I think this was probably 90% of the reason they actually did want to do it had to do with academics they said they thought they could do a better job then the school was doing especially as we were getting higher up into and they felt the school's academics were actually slipping they felt they were compromising you know the upper level programs for the sake of like you said taking more time to let the people at the bottom of the class catch up and there's no question that you're absolutely right you can in a one-on-one school environment and that's all it was for me it was just me I had two older siblings but they both finished out in public school so I was the only kid being schooled it was my mother who was a stay-at-home mom and yes she gave me a hundred percent of her attention when it was time during the day to do school because she had that luxury she didn't have to work outside of the home and so we could finish a whole day's worth of school work and really more than a whole day's worth of school work in a few hours instead of seven or eight hours now part of the problem with that looking back on it is there's a difference in the whole day's worth of schoolwork when you're homeschooled in a whole day is where the school work in a public school because you're losing a lot of stuff and a lot of it's unnecessary you know the travel to and from classes the lunch break or whatever else but a lot of it it doesn't seem necessary at the time but I think really does hold value for most kids the socialization you know the the time spent maybe not a recess as you get older but certainly the PE courses that so many homeschool kids don't have any exposure to and that's not just physical activity although that's incredibly important especially in a nation with an obesity problem like we have but also the social skills that come from from team sports and team activities and things like that you know you most people when they're home school don't get to learn to play an instrument in band maybe they have a private tutor or maybe their parents know how to play an instrument but if they're not that lucky you're not going to have that experience you're not going to get to do any of the group activities for the most part there's a there is something that I know that some home schoolers do in this part of the country it's called upwards I guess it's like all these homeschool groups these home schoolers come together and they have organized and they have been created sports teams and other activities to try to fill that gap why right I don't know how effective that is you know and it's probably going to depend on the organization and the size of your community you know a lot of these people who are doing this or in small small towns and I'm sure there are some in large cities too but when you're in a tiny town you know you may have a few home schooled family it's you're only gonna be able to go so far with something like that did you ever segue into public school I know I didn't go back into public school i finished up basically what we were considering the end of my high school curriculum I was 17 years old okay so it's 17 home school and I don't want you to take this wrong I mean not I'm saying it I have ingest but even were you kind of like a pod person you know ii you freakin 17 years old were you a bubble person were you I said were you wide eyed and completely insulated from the realities of everything or what not merely to the extent that I could have been and I think a lot of that and you've talked about this before on your show I know a lot of that has to do with the Internet you know the internet was really first starting to come into its own around this same time you know we had I had a PC in my room and that's pretty solid internet connection this is back in the days of America Online you know remember what that was like and all that CompuServe I uh and I know a lot of them will children don't have this and that's part of the problem but if you have an open internet connection and access to that it puts so much knowledge about the world at your fingertips it's still not the same as real world experience there's no substitute for that but it exposes you to aspects of the world the current affairs to all these issues that are out there that you know homeschool parent is probably not going to sit you down and talk about and so there was that and I did I knew quite a few people you know I had some some dating experiences online remember that was when you're a horny teenager I have no I have no confidence on that people which of course that opens up some experiences well wait a minute how does dating work when you're homeschooled I mean how you're not exactly in a target-rich environment so no that's true so a urinal doesn't work it doesn't work terribly well I did have a girl friends in our homeschool group we had a small local homeschool group and my first girlfriend was in that group and so there was a little bit of socialization in that side of things you know once you're 16 and have a driver's license and have access to a car if you know at least a few people you have the opportunity assuming your parents allow it to get out of the house and go do some of that and my parents did allow that I was very fortunate that they were not nearly as controlling and strict as I think the average homeschooling parent is and that's something I'm really glad of because it could have been and I knew kids who had other way around I knew these kids like you were talking about earlier it was them in their six siblings you know in the house with mom teaching them school which is three quarters the Bible and one quarter everything else and so um and then I'm not crazy I mean you have seen those examples out the vast majority the vast majority of the homeschooled kids I have ever met both the ones I met when I was home-schooled and then the few that I met who had also been homeschooled once I went off to college you know I met some fellow homeschooled kids they were most of them were nowhere near as fortunate as I was as far as the level of experience and a lot of that honestly I think comes from the fact that most of them had been homeschooled their whole lives you know I was in public school through sixth grade and that doesn't sound like a lot no it does it was but that early socialization is crucial when it comes to learning to deal with other people even other people you don't especially get along with being exposed to other viewpoints some other cultures and it also helped that my parents traveled a lot and took me with them as much as possible so I had I had seen other parts of the world I had seen other countries I'd seen a lot of the different states and different cultures that are there so at least I'd had some exposure well we're gonna move from here in a few moments from from religious homeschooling which is a whole other animal but I I am convinced it is it is an environment designed to make young people head smart life stupid because I think that's correct they can they can they can pass a test with flying colors they can recite book knowledge they may have cultivated you know their intellect or what have you and you put them out in a real-world situation and it's like a kitten by the interstate they are helpless to figure out what to do that's absolutely true and you know I was fortunate that my parents didn't use strong Christian curriculums for everything although certainly for some subjects they did my history my American history especially was all about God's plan for the country and you know his guiding hand bringing us to where we were founding fathers were all Christians and it was God and country real fast I had before I move on would you uh would you consider ever homeschooling your children or no I would consider it but it wouldn't be a first choice I would only consider it if there wasn't a good school option where I was and honestly it's just it's so much responsibility for one person to take on you're already doing so much as a parent to shape this person's life I think it's too much to have you be their sole influence I think public schools were created initially not really to educate but to make the children inform citizens of the country to make them able to understand public topics to be voting people to be able to hold public discourse and when you take that away I just think you're doing a disservice not just to your child but to the country as a whole if you don't do it really really carefully yeah David thanks for a great call and your perspective much appreciated sir take care of yourself thanks for taking it you better bike you know that's another angle that off the top of my head I just I thought yeah be home school as a parent you don't get the opportunity for nine months to every morning go by three o'clock being a parent being hard enough now you're a teacher my god that's crazy I had an email from Sally she said we homeschooled our son from 7th through 11th grade during the time we were fundamentalist Christians we began doing so mainly because of bullying in the Christian school he attended I have mixed feelings about it now we D converted after Nathan was grown and then Sally lists pros and cons and I'm just gonna read them to you because I thought they were well written the pros are if done right and that's a big if takes a lot of work on the part of the teaching parent if done right it provides a lot of extra time for the child to explore the world school wastes a lot of time agreed parents very reasonably worried about their children's safety in school these days and homeschooling ends those worries it's quite easy to let a child pursue his favorite topics in depth our son was very musical for example and spent many hours practicing both piano and guitar and writing music had even in school he would have never made the progress that he did home school children tend to be far less age sensitive or age segregated homeschool the teens don't mind socializing with children far younger than they are nor are they intimidated by adults home schoolers can take advantage of life events as teaching moments far easier than can be done in a classroom for example the guy came to tune the piano we stopped school and Nathan got to watch him do the tuning the piano tuner was quite obviously delighted same thing was with a visit to the eye doctor I explained he was home-schooled and the eye doctor gave him an entire lesson in eye anatomy on the spot real world stuff there was a lunar eclipse so we took naps in the afternoon and stayed up way into the night watching the sky the Khans she says life is not always fair some employers sock some fellow employees sock to homeschooled kids have a tendency to live in a fair world because mom loves them and tries very hard to be fair it's just very easy to excuse stuff that will not be excused in the real world for example in the real world a paper is due on Friday if life intervenes and Billy doesn't get the paper written and turned in on time he gets marked down in a homeschooling situation it's too easy to excuse Billy because the parent knows that his Anton uncle came to dinner on Tuesday and he had doctor's appointment on Wednesday etc these were all good reasons quote/unquote good reasons why the paper wasn't done so the time gets extended she says it's very easy to indoctrinate a child with your own ideas obviously religious people who homeschool do so for exactly this reason free thinkers have to be very careful to purposefully incorporate all viewpoints not just their own a lot of homeschool materials are Christian and conservative probably the majority of that stuff is isolation can be a problem depending on the child in the situation our son decided he wanted to go back to a real school for the 12th grade it was a real challenge getting him in public school one turned him down completely the second required him to be tested in every subject for 9th through 11th grades he did fine before granting him credit some children just shouldn't be homeschooled a parent to be effective needs to be open to that idea that their child may actually need the outside authority figure in the social interaction our son wanted to go to school because he wanted to participate in extracurricular activities other children are happier homeschooled it takes a perceptive parent to observe the signs of trouble and adjust without getting their hearts set on homeschooling is the answer to everything homeschooling done right can be relatively expensive it can also be affordable but it takes a lot of creativity dedication and work to cut costs plopping a child in front of the TV for quote classes is not the answer although I know a lot of parents who do just that she finishes her email homeschooling was the right choice for us at the time however I'm not so sure that we'd have ever had to resort to it had we enrolled our son in a good public school right from the start our homeschooling was totally an effort to patch up problems that occurred entirely as a result of having him in a Christian school Sally thank you so much for a great letter I guess bullying happens in schools of all shapes and sizes and every situation is certainly unique back to the phone's eight one six you are on the thinking atheist podcast who's this my name is Holly and I actually live in the Midwest as well I call schooled I was home-schooled by my mother from the age of three until I graduated I guess that's what you can call it I have had a bad bad bad experience in a horrible life after being homeschooled they started you with three oh I was reading reading second-grade material by the age of three so you were as far as the the book work is concerned advanced right you were probably above everybody in your age group yes and what made it so horrible what happened one bad thing and nobody brings it up is when you're around your parents all the time and there's no outside influence whatsoever there's nobody that sees the kids you know it's easy to hide bruises and no one thinks about that and that does happen and it's very common in homeschooling life you know you're around your kids constantly and you know you can snap and my mother did quite often and it's something that I'm still dealing with even at the age of almost thirty it you know I I never learned anything I think probably the most I've learned is from the age of eighteen and being kicked out of my parents house on through being almost thirty I don't think the education that my mother was providing me was adequate so I would actually go behind her back at the library and research subjects that I wanted to research if I may I want to go back for just a second are you from your perspective are you saying that homeschool parents who may abuse their children homeschool them to hide the fact that they abused the kids or do you believe that the abuse is a byproduct of the fact that they spend all day everyday in the same space well it's all about control and control and itself is abuse you know so it kind of goes hand in hand with that the fact that my mom didn't she didn't know how to cope with her own life and so that was passed on to all of us kids you know at my sister I haven't screwed up as much as some of my siblings have I will just say that but it is very damaging when you're when you're secluded from society no one know it knows what's going on no one has a clue you know because you I didn't even get all of my immunizations because I wasn't in public school doing that I never learned sports I you know there's a lot that you're lacking as a home schooler did you compensate when you when you finally were out on your own then where were you at were you a minnow huh or had you done enough on your own that you would sort of develop the social skills to cope well I was so I have always been an outgoing person but it has stunted my ability to deal with people in the real world once I got out of my parents house it was like a week after I turned 18 so you're sitting at home all these years and you work for your parents you know day in day out and that's essentially you know we delivered papers every night so 365 days a year you know we were made to go and help and work and then come home to our schoolwork so I had the experience of working and I'm a very hard worker but it's hard for me to shut my mouth sometimes at work and it's come into play a few times in my life did she keep you home because she was believed it was the best move for you or was there another motive everything was the devil my mother has my mother has told me you don't need to do it because I've already done it and I know what's out there and I know what's good for you so you are not allowed to have friends you're not allowed to have friends over you're not allowed to go to a friend's house you're not allowed to go to a concert at the age of 16 you're not allowed to do anything you know I mean there was there was a few years where we didn't leave the house unless it was to go to the store like we were not even allowed to play in the backyard you know there are people in certain parts of the world and even parts of the United States right now who are hearing you talk who wonder if they just gone into the twilight zone I mean it's on it's unbelievable to them and yet we we do see it they believe they are doing their children a favor and instead they are hamstringing them right they are limiting their ability to interact socially with the real world which is often a complex and very difficult world certainly not a fair world would you homeschool a child outside of the religious umbrella let's say there was no religion there was no devil there was none of that stuff but it was just about the academics absolutely because the religious aspect of it is everything is that everything's a sin everyone is bad you know you you should be afraid of everything you know I'm a newly converted atheist you know one day it just kind of clicked you know my dad had told me you're going to hell because you're not Catholic and then my mom told me you know you're going to hell because you're not a Christian because my dad's Catholic my mom's Christian but they're not they were never married or anything so it's the fear aspect and as an adult you know I had to work shitty ass jobs because I don't have you know I my mom never told us to go get a GED after we were done because we never reported to the state we didn't have to because state of Missouri's don't have to so that you know that had that had really scented me as well you know I think so if I taught if I had kids and I taught them science the way that taient science is supposed to be taught and let my kids decide absolutely well after hearing your story you know I'm it kind of saddens me to hear that you just didn't have a great start but and I will encourage you that I like you a little late to the free thought party but we finally did arrive you and me we finally showed up you know it took me a lot of years just like it took you a lot of years but there's just no feeling like not having to fear the invisible eye in the sky and not having to make the square peg fit into the round hole and did not be afraid to ask questions and I don't know I just my hope for you is a wonderful happy fulfilled rich life I'm working on it I'm actually a member of the Midwest skeptic Society I go to the meetings quite often and I am beginning to try and get into the Atheist community in my area well welcome you know your well course the thinking atheist community is good for support our people are awesome you know they're awesome when you trust me I am and abuse them every every time I'm in a low place I feel oh I can't take it I log on I enter the forum I feed off of these people they're a great support mechanism I appreciate your perspective and I'm so glad you called you take care ok all right thanks thank you I have to say it out loud conservative and Republican are not the same thing I just had to say I had an email from Chris from Texas he said we homeschool our kids the decision was one based on both the quality of education and what we felt like the environment was at the time we also enjoy spending time with our kids also both of my children have had long-term health issues that would have presented greater challenges in a public school setting here are a few of my thoughts Chris says the most common question is what about socialization this is a non-issue my children have very busy social lives and last year took it upon themselves to help organize a homeschool prom educationally we've done a lot of things extremely well but have also made a few mistakes about which I constantly fret my oldest is college bound this fall I can't wait to see what the future holds for my youngest and it's a lot of work what I'm happiest about is how they've turned out as people they're constantly involved in service projects and always impress the people they work with in professional environments my feeling is that while they did grow up with a lot of friends they were mostly raised by adults and not other kids I have to admit the thought of a religious fundamentalist homeschooling their kids in order to teach the Bible as history does bother me on some level I'll bet every level however the thought of the government telling me what we would have to teach them makes me want to say it's none of your damn business I think this has to be a matter of choice Christi said as an atheist homeschooling parent I believe secular home schoolers may one day be the saviors of the homeschooling community the antidote to sheltering hyper-religious parents who crippled their children with false information like the world is 6,000 years old and fossils exist because God likes to play an elaborate game with the minds of dirty free-thinking skeptics fundamentalist homeschool to keep their offspring from the world that we secular home schoolers do it to teach them the truth and so they don't have to relearn everything from grade school in college but differently for example Christopher Columbus didn't discover America and sit down at the table of brotherhood with the smiling Indians do it the right way the first time thanks Christy for the letter you know I look back at how simplistic so many of our lessons were growing up and it was just like the Christopher Columbus story what did they teach us about George Washington did we know anything about whether or not he was a religious man or whether or not he was a slave owner what he was like what would the nuances of George Washington's life right he was the first president his face is on the is on the money and he chopped down the cherry tree and he cannot tell a lie this is the kind of crap they taught us these little tiny bumper-sticker cookie cutter fairytales you know did it happen I don't know but is that what we really had to teach about George Washington I cannot tell a lie I chopped it down that's right you know he was he had to be bigger than life he had to be kind of like the superhero you know the the Boy Scout he had to be this this Akron sweet kind of a they did something they could spoon-feed to two children and that's all we really knew I don't know anything about the founding fathers not really not until I started to do a little homework not until people started to tell me that we were a Christian nation and I decided to go check or myself that was an eye-opening experience Christopher Hitchens was the first one who planted that seed he's talking about Thomas Jefferson Thomas Paine John Adams really wait a minute I never heard that before I went and did some digging it's amazing one just a little research will turn up folks I was sitting there with my mouth on the ground gone really real and then I made a note for all the other people who post on my Facebook page that we are a Christian nation Pam 3:03 you're on the thinking atheist podcast who's this hey this is Alf remember how are you glad you're calling now what's going on man well yeah I just like to provide a little bit my own perspective um I've been studying psychology for about 10 years so I care pretty deeply about the subject of child development my mother just retired as a second son grade teacher and a really beautiful public school for about 35 years I think was her track record and and I'm also dating a girl who she and her three younger sisters were homeschooled for I guess about the last 20 years underneath their mountain so so there's like invasion of the Body Snatchers look on her face everywhere she goes I'm just asking you know it's a good question um it's funny we've been dating for about a year we use in college I know that uh you know they say statistically college is kind of one of those is one of the biggest things that sort of be programs people from that that homeschool Pedley religious upbringing so I know that they definitely lit the spark for her but we had a we definitely had a really sort of you know lengthy friendship that evolved sort of trolling around just to what degree she felt like she was coming out of this this really secluded world and being a part of you know a bigger social scene well describe the world for me I mean were they really strict did that were they allowed to date did they have a freaking television in their house did they go to the movies were they restricted in social aspects I mean what was it like for her question ID I can tell you that she wasn't allowed to see any you know anything movie was anything beyond pg-13 until she was 18 so so a lot of our relationship is going to catch up on films right you know Armageddon or Jurassic Park or things that things that involve science you know things that involve stuff that would be interesting stuff that makes you think things that you know things like The Truman Show even are things like just any media that's going to make you as a human being think existential question the world you belong in question reality a little bit so that she never had she definitely didn't have any kind of a scientific upbringing she had no idea about the age of the earth had no idea about the the origin of the earth of the Moon or or how different faculties have made to work I think her mathematics skills were probably lacking a bit but and I just had to assume because I can't remember off the top of my head that that's really where for religious schooling did I just lose him chatroom oh there you are you you cut out I caught that the religious influence and then I lost you so we it was a heavily religious environment correct yeah heavily heavily it was an environment of really heavy ideology it wasn't just a Christian ideology it was a really political ideology it was that it's a government's bad it's that you know schools are corrupt schools are dangerous it's a lot of I think sort of stranger danger ideology and and really just about it's about control at the previous caller said I think but to a degree I think where you would point out at hem stress it's had hamstrung her a little bit I mean she's she's she's amazing girl she's really capable she's headstrong head smart like you'd say but she had nothing like the upbringing I did which was a secular one in really great public schools which was seeing I mean we talked about socialization we're not just talking about being with other people we're talking about being exposed to diversity we're talking about seeing other religions other practices other ways of thinking and the language seeing that spectrum develops us as human beings and how that can be healthy and that's what she didn't have until she got to college I think she never had that and that affected her a big way well I think I look at you know I always refer to that time that Christopher Hitchens I can buy it I'm not invoking him because I'm stuck on hitch today but it just happened to be the examples that came to mind but it was that time he was on Sean Hannity and he said to him I hate to say this but you give me the impression of someone who has never read any of the arguments against your position ever and I think when I grew up I had never heard any legitimate arguments ansed my position how do you sharpen your own worldview if it's never challenged or tested and so I get that so you guys what you go out to dinner and you're having a conversation and you look her in the eye and say honey 13.7 billion years ago I mean certainly she heard this all this talk about evolution the Big Bang we have a common ancestor blah blah blah coming out of your mouth if she came from a religious background did she did she Blanche at all what was her reaction Oh her reaction I think has been one of the most beautiful things of our whole relationship because it was it was such a I mean when you are isolated in that kind of an upbringing I mean for her it was life is very simple I know where my place is in the family and in life as a woman I know what my capabilities are because these are what's expected of me and I know that when this is over I'm just going to go to heaven so so for most of her life it was this depressing sort of waiting for the next phase and when she when she made that transition to actually wanted to learn about the world and learn about science and learn about 13.7 billion years it changed her whole attitude about life because for the first time she got it in her head that life is really beautiful and precious and it's not just this waiting for the next step it's something that's rare and amazing and she so from that point on it was easy it was okay let's check out the Discovery Channel let's check out TED Talks let's do this thing and she just she eats it up it's all we do I mean she feels like she's been freed this is like almost like the starving man being giving something to eat after all this time it's it's she's just drinking in information sponging it up as quickly she can that's exciting because I have a feeling and I don't know but if I was to run into Sam my homeschool buddy and I was to tell him that I believe that thirteen point seven years ago a singularity took place and that I don't buy the biblical creation story and we all have a common ancestor and blah blah blah he would burst into flame he would shut down he would not be sending he would not be receiving he would only be sending you know they start him off with the answer right and then they then they go out and tell him to find the facts that buttress their already established point of view well I wish you and heard the very best you drop me an email in a few months let me know how it's going okay I mean I'm not a relationship counselor but I'm kind of excited to historic is compelling yeah I don't think we'll need one you know and I think again I mean she's a smart capable girl I don't think there's an easy answer to homeschooling if it's good or bad I think you have good teachers you have bad teachers I think the bigger issue is it's good to give individual attention to students no doubt about it but what degree are we hamstringing them by either topping them full of our own agendas or limiting them from things and dangers that are not real so anyway we keep fighting the good fight thanks a lot for come on great great stuff thank you so much great point to our we create are we raising children or are we creating clones too often it is clones I had an email from Olivia she said I think unless the mother or father has at least a master's in childhood education science math English and maybe a foreign language education should be left to teachers Karen said homeschool to children also across the board score significantly higher in all subjects on national standardized tests and they tend to score higher than the national average on the a CTS and SATs studies and statistics show that the education level of the teaching parent has no significant bearing on the success of the homeschooled student thanks Karen Trevor said I think homeschooling is very bad for kids I think in order to have any kind of real wisdom about the world we live in children should be exposed to as many influences as possible and be given the opportunity to analyze and understand all perspectives and all angles of life and be able to ask questions and receive answers from different sources they may not understand other people's lifestyles as children but if they've been exposed to them at an early age then by the time they graduate and move out into the world on their own they will be well prepared for what the real world has to offer if they only start seeing the bad side of the world once they've grown up then they still have many years of learning to do and will be incapable of functioning in society until they are approaching middle age Trevor thanks for the message let's see nine one eight you're on the thinking atheist podcast who's this hey this is Manfred the cranky saint what's going on man pretty good to hear your voice brother oh well I've been you know listening the show and I haven't heard any teachers call in so I thought I'd give my two cents on the subject as an instructor please tell me what your perspective is sir well I some of these areas have been have been touched on by your previous callers and I'll go too deep into what they are doing but there are advantages to the homeschooling that that are contributing to those higher scores and that that biggest advantage is that individualized attention when you've got a room full of 30 students some of them are going to fall through the cracks and if you're at the high school level of guy and you don't have 30 students you've got one hundred and eighty two hundred students to deal with over the course of the day so that individual individualized attention is a big factor there and this could be done at the public school setting if we had support from school boards unfortunately a lot of school boards around here are staffed by people who have up some no education background but they're making decisions that affect child's education most infamously one of our local school boards here in Cal central had two members who were high school dropouts they were in it because their grandkids were in the schools that was it so you know the advantage of the home school in that - attention that attention to the child's individual earnings file that's where that comes in that's where they're getting those higher schools high scores we can get that in the high schools and in the elementary schools and school boards would let us do these things but they're all about the money but the biggest disadvantage and a couple of your colors have touched on this one was the fact that a lot of these parents have no qualifications for teaching this stuff and just getting past their their own biases you know but their own bias aside these are people who wouldn't know know beings taxonomy if it jumped up and bit them in the ass and they couldn't spell a pedagogy if their life depended on it so how are they getting this information across their students if they don't know anything about teaching if you had to give me the benefits and challenges in a nutshell of teaching in a public school you're a high school teacher yes you are obviously probably up to your freakin eyeballs in bureaucracy right you probably have so much I would like to do but you are handcuffed right mm is that close come on hand what are your frustrations about the public school system the biggest frustration again comes out of the school boards who pretty much decide everything and yet they have no education background for the most part so they're making these decisions that affect us down in the classroom those down in the trenches let's see what was the one of the more recent ones in the district right each they had changed the eligibility program for for extracurricular activities especially athletics it used to be if you had below you know if you had a D and in your classes you couldn't play at all until you brought it up this year they change that now if you got a D and you go sit with a tutor for an hour you can go play it wasn't the scores it was getting the kids out there on the fields and that was put in extra you know load on the teachers with no further compensation for our time the kids were just sitting there staring off into space they were look at the clock okay my time is done I'm out the door to the practice field all right so with homeschooling have solved any of the major problems that you see in the public school the biggest problem that the biggest the biggest thing that homeschooling does is as I addressing that the individualized attention individual learning styles this is something that I've studied in at some extent in fact I'm working on my master's degree program right now and I'm studying about individual learning styles there are factors that affect how you learn some people learn better under bright lighting some dim lighting temperature changes time of day working in groups working alone well if you've got 30 to 40 kids crammed into one room sitting in neat little rows knees hard desk not all of them are going to be a learn under those conditions if the school boards would pay attention to the educators they would allow us to make the modifications to our classrooms and provide the funding that we need these classrooms to make the necessary changes give a little section off the side of the room for the students who work better alone a little section over here students work better in groups maybe give us some control of the lighting that's actually something I'm hoping to incorporate next year in my classroom they're moving me to a bigger classroom next year assuming I have a job and I'll be working on setting up little individual areas make my room a model for learning styles but they are busy looking at the money well you're probably also running into you're probably also I mean if you were to take let's say the the five fastest learners the five most advanced students and you put them in their own little pod now you're talking politics right because all the all of the parents of the other children are going what's wrong little Timmy do you think he's stupid well that's that's yeah that comes into one of the other areas that has been it a I have trouble coming to a decision on my opinion on one thing and that's called inclusion inclusion is when they bring in students with learning disabilities into the regular classroom and let me try and say here and ii tend to adapt a lesson to them right now we are legally obligated to do that but some of these children have I don't know if they're getting any advantage if they're actually they can eat some positive exposure by being mainstreamed with the other students but I'm wondering if it's worth the the cost of bringing them into the classroom so they want them to be given the same environment that everyone else does so yeah in the name of equality they are brought into an environment that may not be suited to their particular disability so it's kind of a catch-22 act like you as the teacher isn't it yes oh I am having to you know come up with especially one of my classes almost half the students in one of my classes on some kind of individual education plan so I'm having to come up with five six seven different versions of everything that we do in the last room and then I'm expected to come and expect to keep things organized on a nice neat calendar so that everybody finishes up at the same time we can move on to the next project it doesn't work that way I have to try to get a few more in but but before I go move on I do I have two things first of all teachers to me are it's like cops you know I'm saying I mean they are probably among the least appreciated people and it's cliche to say that but you you know you're not just an instructor you're a counselor you are a you're a policeman you know you are all of these things at the same time you're a politician you're balancing the opinions of every parent and their dog on the planet so I just between you and me I just between you and me I gotta ask you a question you're teaching high school you teach in high school well insel hormone charged teenagers walks up and gives you some attitude do you ever just fantasize about just just whaling on them I do have a reputation around the school for being a bit of a brick wall though they have learned not to cross me that I have no no compunction to make them cry aren't you military yes I am I'm just saying I have gone in to drill sergeant mode numerous times over the last couple of years no homework today you get on your face and give me 25 right now Manfred thanks for the call man I appreciate it take care of yourself okay I great to hear the perspective of a teacher thanks so much man prefer he's called into the show many times and he's always always got a lot to offer Lisa said she's got two homeschooled kids please keep in mind she says as you look at the stereotype of religious home schoolers who keep their children in a bubble that the children of my right-wing Christian neighbors all of whom attend the local public schools all believe in creationism and couldn't be more homogeneous in terms of religious beliefs and lifestyle contrast this to our local networks of secular home schoolers with whom we have PARCC days parents night out co-op learning book art and science clubs field trips teen group activities etc none of them deny evolution even though religious ones there are multiple lesbian couples raising families a variety of faiths represented several atheist parents no peer pressure to do drugs or dress or think a certain way no ageism adults are not feared younger children are not Oscars bullying is not tolerated by the parents of the children my parents exposure to ideas of learning peers families and religious beliefs is significantly more diverse than those of my neighbors and thank goodness by the way people who get worked up about home schoolers also seem to forget about the private schools which are allowed to actively teach creationism and exclude attendance by those of different beliefs some actively some passively we have a local evangelical school which advertises that they quote teach godly children unquote for example I find I don't hear people writing articles hosting podcasts or making offhand comments about these children in schools like they do about home schoolers yet I'm certain there are a significant number of students in these schools just something to think about it's important to me that home schoolers don't get viewed as being the problem when you can look at the statistics of adults in this country who have religious beliefs and educational ignorant how many don't understand even the basics of evolution for example who think that science of global warming is a conspiracy who went all the way through our public school system religious beliefs are persistent and that's a big deal for example the idea of the educated in this country being elitists is a pervasive one at the moment as is the general anti science sentiment these are large cultural problems and given they continue while the vast majority of people are educated in the public school system I think spending energy on the minority who homeschool for religious reasons is a distraction that may feel satisfying to some but ultimately isn't gonna change anything a cultural shift would make all the difference and is in my opinion the only thing that truly can how to bring that about the very good question thanks for your attention Lisa Lisa thank you for the letter back to the phones quickly for for zero you're on the thinking atheist podcast who's this hello Seth Jeremiah Jeremiah glad you called thanks for waiting him an hour on the switchboard real fast what do you have for me uh I was home-schooled well I first off I may get the reason I was good to meet you you Tom in I'm glad you came out had a great time you you seem pretty balanced you're not all that screwed up are you come on you know they've been talking about some of the collars uh their lack of science education and stuff like that I never learned about evolution you know cosmology all that sort of stuff until that was an adult essentially so you know the idea that that uh you know they control basically all of your education and it's all got to be God based and Bible based and all that stuff so so you got out and what happened did you swing hard the other way did you go wild what happened when you finally became an adult I guess I've always kind of been a doubter you know and so I've slowly been coming out I suppose over time but after I read The God Delusion he talks about a lot of stuff in there that I was like wait a minute evolution where's the evidence for this so I had to go and find the evidence and educate myself essentially so but uh actually oh here's the funny thing is to the last time I'd been to DC I was there for the rally for life my parents were very pro-life fundamentalist so you did the rally for life and then you went back for the reason rally there you go but you always talked about to the the Christian radio we were only allowed to listen to Christian radio so when you talk about michael w smith and all that i grew up on all that stuff to me too it was their way of protecting us from the evils of worldly music secular music devil music and and right that was you know controlling things we were allowed to read I wasn't allowed to read Isaac Asimov because he was a humanist you know things like that which at the time I'm like I'm you know 13 years old I'm like what's that just an interesting science fiction story you know to me so I appreciate appreciate your perspective um I'm glad to meet a fellow free thinker who came out of home school or religious homeschool and and found a path of his own that's good stuff thank you so much good take care of yourself one nine you're on the thinking atheist podcast thanks for waiting who's this hey this is Adam out in Colorado Springs glad you're calling Adam what's go I'm going out to Colorado I think it's Denver Labor Day weekend there's a big secular event going on I'm still getting details on so I'm looking forward to heading your direction what's your perspective on all this I got I got a kind of a different twist on that hasn't really been brought up I was a I'm in the army I was a recruiter for over four years and working with kids coming out of high school we keep talking about you know the children that are in school and everything no one's really brought up of what you do when you leave career and secondary education and I don't think people realize that a home school actually presents a lot of challenges that I don't think parents who research that know where they're like enlisting in the army you're automatically considered a different tier category for education which can limit you know further education benefits and bonuses and stuff like that as opposed to someone who was schooled in a public school and it goes state by state but also colleges have different you know regulations on home schoolers because not all home schools is regulated as far as you know who's printing the diploma who's in control of the of the curriculums so it presents a whole nother challenge for when they're actually ready to go out into the world so whether it's a religious home school or a secular home school you're saying that in many environments they will be flagged in some way in ways that might limit them yes I mean of course you know you can you know you go to not all colleges do discriminate against it and some do the military obviously if if the benefits are open for that tier group then it doesn't matter but interesting enough in the regulation they're considered no matter their GPA the same evaluated education as someone with the GED so yeah it can be it could be a whole nother hurdle that they're not even expecting so it's something if you did choose to home-school you would definitely want to you probably want to run the traps and find out exactly what those challenges would be at least you'd be prepared for them when the child becomes 18 and due home do home schoolers graduate do they have like a graduation ceremony of some kind I wonder the ones I've worked with you know they get their diploma sent to them were or manufacturers through the same people that do it for other high schools and stuff but I mean I don't know I don't know many that are in do large groups the ones I've worked with to you know join the army and stuff they're all out of their house but I just wanted to bring that up for you know for all the for all the people saying higher test scores and you know public education isn't as as good that's all well and fine when you get your GPA but then when you move on the secondary education or want to do something as simple as like I want to serve my country for your few years they can extremely hinder you well I appreciate the service to our country as well thank you for a what if which branch are you in the Army Army wonderful well I appreciate the call and your perspective it's it is its opinion we haven't heard yet but it's great to hear from you thanks so much all right thanks that somebody on my chat room who knows would you tell me if I'm guessing they're these homeschool associations must do a graduation ceremony I can't imagine they would deprive the child of the chance to do the cap and gown and the diploma right and see all the kids I know are still you know Sam the kid I was talking about they moved away so I never see I have no idea where she's at but the ones I know who are currently in home school there when are they 12 and 13 so I mean I don't know and if they do a graduation ceremony and there's just one person that's pretty short right thanks for coming out that's it you know I'm guessing they've got to have some kind of up there's got to be some organization somebody on my chat room can you help me out here back to the phone's five one eight you're on the thinking atheist podcast who's this hey Seth this is Andrew from New York I am a bit torn on on homeschooling I can go either way the college I went to focuses on pedagogy which is directing teacher teach people how to teach effectively and I was actually looking to be a secondary education instructor focusing on math and who's to say like you know these parents are equipped to teach to the needs of their kids the one caller you had had a valid point that these people are regulated they're not they don't possess a master's degree in and education yeah well think about this though I mean look there are a hell of a lot of public schools that are barely worth the electric bill that they pay to open up in the morning you know they probably people slide through the cracks left and right they don't they hell yeah a pretty cool of educators who knows how many people are in there resting on their tenure who knows what what the tone is being said by the superintendent or the Dean or whatever they are I mean I you know I think isn't every situation going to be very specific very different and everything has to be sort of sized up case-by-case because there are a lot of public of people I know who graduated from public school they are functionally illiterate you know they can't spell they can't they can barely read right they they can they are really inhibited in most of the basics of high school education so it's not I mean I don't know I I see both sides of it I'm not trying to be a politician about it but I'm just playing devil's advocate you know what do you think I agree on and that's where I'm torn because I going into school on there are these instructors that I had they're brilliant people they know their stuff in their subject area but they don't teach it effectively and they've got a PhD you know so it is very different that's from I'm torn with the whole thing because you could yeah you could have somebody who's a very effective teacher but they don't necessarily have the qualifications but that's not to say that they don't teach the kids effectively but then you could estimate you as the qualifications but then they're crap a teaching so it's you know it can go both ways you hit on something that is it's something that I'm thinking about covering at in another capacity to free okay but I'm doing some presentations here in the spring we're talking about communication what good is a good message if you cannot communicate it effectively you know I took history obviously all through through school right we all did history right American history and world history and history history history I never engaged usually my history teacher was the gym teacher in the gym teacher was required to teach one other subject right so of his history there's something or science and when I was a senior in high school we had her name's mrs. bridges and she was this well-versed smart funny storyteller who for the first time brought history to life I mean she told us the stories and she and she made it come alive and she made me care and she helped me to understand why it is important and relevant and it I had had people who you know there were people teaching at the college level who have PhDs and degrees out the ying-yang who are book smart who have all the knowledge who are shitty communicators they are lousy at instructing and inspiring and educating other people and I'm so glad you brought that point up the best teachers are not the ones necessarily who just have the head knowledge but who can compel and translate and and get people excited about learning to teach not just to know that's good stuff anything else I know that's that's all I really wanted to bring up and and stuff I to be on the show I appreciate your head thanks for waitin on me today and take care of yourself alright thanks you too 602 thanks for waiting you're on the thinking atheist podcast what's your name my name is Chris out of Phoenix are you doing today what's going on in Phoenix it's April are you kidding yeah we went good a shooting right now we went down and we did a shoot in Phoenix in August down there it's like a hundred and twenty degrees 120 is that normal yeah exactly rumor has it that because we've got a lot of troops on the Middle East they're training out here to get you especially would have thought since trained in Phoenix I'm invincible what's your perspective on homeschooling what's your opinion um I can tell you just from personal experience that my mother's the religious are parents and forces just it was a medical disability I had on as a kid and it's hard when I get the education quality was horrible it was really just one teacher from a school who helped out you know kind of like a substitute who's just there available to take her secondary priority no wait were you you were not taught by a parent you were taught by a teacher from the school yeah you let's from the school within the district not exactly high school that would have gone through had I not had that medical disability it was basically epilepsy at the time and the one the education quality was holdover very basic didn't even get far into it and it would be these phone calls cost like a three or four way call for anybody who was home-schooled in my neighborhood board within vicinity of X amount of miles not sure but it was about an hour on the phone just this big song fell between like 10 students and a teacher and as far as the quality situations is horrible there was two hours and then that was it it's a homework assignment it had be twiddling my thumbs waiting for him to get off schools he can hang out were you like a chore that had to be finished for this teacher it was kind of like dear this finish this assignment here here's your last tenth grade by or was there an having problem why wasn't it good for you yeah and that's the thing like I said it was on the phone so there wasn't any clip you're not looking at any chalk oh wait so you didn't have any per one-on-one personal it was all done over the phone almost all of it there was a couple times when the teacher did visit for specific topics but almost all of it like what can I think of um I think the basics of some of the basics of Science in history but of course as far as math that's when he had a teacher come in because you can't just talk it over the phone to teach it but as far as the history and science and aspects of it yeah that was just very basic stuff over the phone and even then it didn't go into the details of it like for World War two coverage it was here's the villains here's the country's here's how long the war tux here's a little one here's who lost that was pretty much all it really did did you graduate did you get a diploma yeah I did end up getting it it was from um well I mean I don't need you to spill the beans on which school it was but I'm gonna say which years it was 7th and 8th grade and then the freshman and sophomore year and it was it wasn't even a full time kind of student amount of schedule I had to do extra credits when I went back to school junior and senior year which was basically after head surgery and was able to finally go back to school because there was no longer issue but it was almost like a half time students and I had to do summer classes just to graduate on time with all my friends how you doing health-wise these days you back you doing good oh yeah I'm totally back I mean I what happened was pretty much did you want me to get the medical details well I've just got a minute but when you said epilepsy obviously I'm thinking how are you are you okay are you well you know oh yeah I'm fine I mean they basically had me on some anti it was like an answer to presidents by a spring lose drug until that and then of course I had almost cold turkey answer the president said I was on all my life from that cuz it acted the exact same of the way but uh wasn't until my mid-20s and I became human but when I was gonna say is like a lot of this from from being homeschooled social skills before rific like when you start hanging out with friends at the end and going back to school I'm which was my junior year it was probably years behind on having any kind of social skills it took plenty of time to recover and another example another tragic if I don't miss field trips to friends like my junior high get a Six Flags field trip and I couldn't go because I wasn't going to that story for what about dating I mean you're a teenager right I mean you've gotten the natural inclination to keep your eyes and ears open I mean now does one who is isolated from people scratch that particular itch if you know what yeah it's almost impossible I mean you're not really at school talking to anybody so there's not a lot of girls down you know I think for whoever Lisbon Street and it's just almost nothing could happen it was the complete isolation besides of course the education of all you and it was complete isolation and what I would also mention a downside of it it prevents the work schedule getting used to the routine do you know you go to X amount of classes you take a lunch break you go to X amount of classes in your day ads that's what you do it's full and that definitely wasn't the case with being home school so that's a thumbs down from you I'm guessing yeah actually came out of it is I think stuck in the home for so long I I'd rather leave the house and go to work and call in on a day that I just don't want to work and I'd rather stay at work and finish then progressed until the next day because I just don't want to be in the house well I'm glad you're doing better and I'm I appreciate you calling the show and letting us know that you know I mean honestly I it's it's a tough one I think I just have this vision in my mind of a guy right he's not allowed today he's not allowed to do anything he's never been to a movie that wasn't rated G and at Disney over the tidal ease he barely owns a television is his whole everything he reads everything he watches everything he says is monitored and then he's 18 and goes out on his first date and he's looking at you know he's looking at I what do i what do i do what do I do you know that's this dividual on cousins what happens just trying to recover your social I think even be caught up I mean it was probably until I'm it's like I said what somebody missed why until I became cubed I appreciate some thanks for the call very much thank you you know easy no probably takes her out to a little ice cream parlor someplace safe you know make sure you're not in the van or anything a pickup truck first day take her out what do you do with her I mean she shaped like a man but with bosoms what does one do well I think about my high school experience and that I got I mean now is it goofball you know everybody was stupid when they're in high school I was a student later I was a student council I was this I was that I was but that was also just a kid you know I'm going out on dates we're going to the football game and we're doing this we're doing that and dated and dated and dated and dated and dated I was all over the place but I look back and I'm thankful for those memories because even the messy ones you know you're the ones we thought oh I screwed that up right that's part of learning learning how to deal with people learning how to to deal with with feelings learning how to socialize jeez I there's somebody I know who lost you know their teenager that girlfriend broke up with him heartbroken right and and don't give me that that song and dance that the teen love doesn't matter trust me it hurts it hurts really bad I mean it's you know heartbreak is real and it's am I happy that the poor guy's girlfriend broke up with him no but I'll tell you he's learning about relationships he's learning about life he's learning about the complexities and nuances of dealing with other flesh-and-blood human beings he's he's becoming stronger you're learning about himself learning about other people learning what he wants what he doesn't want what he did right what he did wrong this is important stuff and if you're if you're inside four walls and if you have you have to be given the opportunity to shore up the social side of it and honestly I don't know that I would want to be home all day with mom and dad or mom or dad would you get me the hey I want to go hang with people if I'm here all day and I'm here all night and I'm here on the weekends my head is gonna pop off anyway it's it's been a great show and a lot of wonderful perspectives thank you so much for the emails and the calls we may address this again we have a lot to do here in the weeks and the months ahead I will try to post a new podcast schedule on the Facebook page if you are not a member of the Facebook page I do encourage you to log on become a part of it because it's a great way to connect with what's happening get the show schedules find out what we're doing getting except for some exciting presentations I'm going to Kamloops in British Columbia on May the 18th and I believe they are going to post those speeches online later on and then I'll be speaking at the Oklahoma free thought convention on June the 23rd and we're gonna try to I'm working on logistics of trying to get that event videotaped so that we can provide those to all of our youtube viewers as well it's gonna be like my second here to go and speak in front of my hometown audience and I'm it's gonna be exciting but I'm nervous so anyway be listening in the coming weeks for some very cool stuff thanks for listening have a great week I will see you next Tuesday night on the thinking atheist radio podcast follow the thinking atheist on Facebook and Twitter watch dozens of original videos on the thinking atheist youtube channel and visit our website for Reese Flinx contact information the editors blog and more the thinking atheist calm

Channel: TheThinkingAtheist

Views: 32,966

Keywords: atheist, atheism, agnostic, The Thinking Atheist, home school, education

Id: Ic3eXBRbroA

Length: 86min 32sec (5192 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 25 2012