>>> TODAY, A DIFFERENT NARRATIVE OF DONALD TRUMP IS UNFOLDING AND IT IS THE ONE HE HAS DREADED. NOT THE GOLD TINGED BILLIONAIRE BUSINESSMAN, NOT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, NOT THE TV CELEBRITY, BUT CITIZEN TRUMP, DEFENDANT TRUMP, A MAN WHO SO CONVINCINGLY TURNED LIES INTO AN ACCEPTED NARRATIVE, NOW FORCED TO FACE TRUTH IN A COURT OF LAW. AND HE DOESN'T LIKE IT. >> I'M NOW GOING TO SIT DOWN FOR MANY HOURS -- I'M NOW GOING TO SIT DOWN -- THE VOTERS HAVE TO UNDERSTAND. LOOK AT THE POLLS. THIS IS A SHAM TRIAL. AND THE JUDGE SHOULD RECUSE HIMSELF. >> NOW, THE BELLIGERENCE HE LIKES TO PROJECT IS MUFFLED AS HE HAS TO SIT BEHIND THE DEFENSE TABLE, FRUSTRATED THAT JUDGER WHERE MERCHAN, NOT HE IS IN CONTROL. AFTER ALL THE WAITING AND ALL THE SPECULATION SURROUNDING DONALD TRUMP ON TRIAL, IT IS ABOUT TO GET REAL. NBC'S GARRETT HAAKE IS BACK WITH US, SAM STEIN IS POLITICO'S DEPUTY MANAGING EDITOR FOR POLITICS AND MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR, AND BARBARA McQUAID IS FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY AND MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST. YOU KNOW, SAM, DONALD TRUMP IS USED TO BEING THE BOSS OF HIS COMPANY. BEING ABLE TO DO, TO SAY WHATEVER HE WANTS. THAT IS NOT THE CASE IN COURT, WHICH IS, OF COURSE, THE JUDGE'S DOMAIN. HOW COULD THAT UNFAMILIAR ROLE, DO YOU THINK, PLAY WITH HIM? >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T THINK ANYONE IS COMFORTABLE SITTING IN A CRIMINAL PROCEEDING. I'LL GIVE THAT TO HIM. BUT I THINK YOUR POINT IS EXTREMELY VALID, WHICH IS FOR 40, 50 YEARS NO ONE HAS TALKED BACK TO DONALD TRUMP. HE'S RUN HIS OWN COMPANY, IT IS A FAMILY BUSINESS, BUT IT WAS HIS. HE WAS A TELEVISION PERSONALITY, WHERE THE SHOW WAS LITERALLY ABOUT HIM TELLING PEOPLE THEY WERE FIRED OR HIRED. HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT, TO DEFINE EXPECTATIONS, IN THOSE CAPACITIES YOU DON'T REALLY EVER GET TOLD TO SIT QUIETLY AT A TABLE OR RISK BEING SANCTIONED. YOU DON'T GET TOLD THAT YOU ARE -- YOUR FREEDOM SON THE LINE AND IT IS NOT IN YOUR HANDS, BUT IN THE HANDS OF OTHERS. THIS IS DEEPLY UNFAMILIAR TERRITORY TO HIM, AND I HAVE TO IMAGINE, I CAN'T GET INTO HIS PSYCHE, BUT I HAVE TO IMAGINE IT IS A BIT OF A HIT TO THE EGO AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY DISORIENTING. HE IS NOT IN CONTROL OF HIS FUTURE. HE'S HANDED THAT TO HIS LAWYERS AND HE HAS A JURY THAT WILL HAVE TO DECIDE HIS FATE AND THAT'S JUST NOT A POSITION HE'S BEEN IN FOR HIS ENTIRE LIFE, LET ALONE 40, 50 YEARS. >> WE ALREADY KNOW, GARRETT, THERE HAS BEEN CONCERN IN TRUMP WORLD AND AMONG A NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS ABOUT WHAT THIS TRIAL COULD MEAN FOR NOVEMBER, FOR THEM AS WELL AS FOR DONALD TRUMP. BUT, HAVE YOU HEARD ANY WORRIES ABOUT HOW HIS BEHAVIOR IN AND OUT OF COURT COULD CHANGE PERCEPTIONS OF HIM? >> LOOK THERE IS AN ELEMENT OF THAT, CHRIS. THE CAMPAIGN AND DONALD TRUMP IN PARTICULAR HAVE TRIED VERY HARD GOING BACK FOR MORE THAN A YEAR NOW TO CAST THIS TRIAL IN A VERY SPECIFIC LIGHT, THE IDEA IT IS JOE BIDEN VERSUS DONALD TRUMP, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE LEGAL FACTS MAY BE HERE. BUT HOW HE CONDUCTS HIMSELF IN THIS COURTROOM, EVEN AWAY FROM THE CAMERAS, COULD INFRINGE UPON THE NARRATIVE THEY'RE TRYING TO SET UP. WE KNOW THIS BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN ONCE IN A MUCH LESS HIGH PROFILE CASE, IN WHICH HE WAS GOING BACK AND FORTH, REPEATEDLY WITH THE JUDGE, IN THE E. JEAN CARROLL CASE IN SUCH A WAY HE WAS ADMONISHED AND TOLD HE COULD BE REMOVED FROM THE ROOM. THAT WAS A CASE THAT DIDN'T HAVE A QUARTER OF THE ATTENTION THAT A CASE LIKE THIS DOES, WHEN THE EYES OF THE ENTIRE COUNTRY ARE WATCHING AT LEAST TO SOME DEGREE WHAT IS GOING ON INSIDE THIS COURTROOM AND WHAT IS GOING ON OUTSIDE OF IT. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROLONGED EXPOSURE COMING AND GOING FROM COURT IN A WAY THAT COULD DIMINISH ANYONE MIGHT PLAY. SO I THINK THAT'S VERY MUCH ON THE MINDS OF THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND WE KNOW THIS IN PART BECAUSE THEY SPENT MUCH OF THE LAST TWO WEEKS PREPARING HIM FOR TRIAL. THEY GAVE ALMOST NO DETAILS ABOUT WHAT THAT PREPARATION LOOKS LIKE. BUT JUST THE FACT THAT HE WAS NOT ACTIVELY CAMPAIGNING ALL THAT MUCH AND MUCH MORE HEAVILY FOCUSED ON WHAT IS GOING TO BE GOING ON INSIDE THE COURTROOM SUGGESTS TO ME THEY'RE WELL AWARE OF THE STAKES. >> TELL ME IF I'M RIGHT ABOUT THIS, BARBARA, OR I WATCHED TOO MANY POLICE PROCEDURALS. A LAWYER BEFORE A DEFENDANT GOES INTO COURT, WILL TALK TO THEM ABOUT HOW THE JURY MIGHT JUDGE THEM BASED ON THE WAY THEY LOOK, BASED ON THEIR DEMEANOR, BASED ON EVEN MAYBE THEIR BODY LANGUAGE. HOW MUCH OF THAT IS TRUE, AND HOW BIG OF A CONCERN CAN THAT BE FOR DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE WE KNOW WHEN HE WAS IN HIS CIVIL CASE, THERE WERE MOMENTS WHEN HE WAS LESS THAN, LET'S SAY, DIPLOMATIC. >> ABSOLUTELY. NOT ONLY DO THEY TALK ABOUT HOW THEY SHOULD APPEAR IN COURT, THEY EVEN TALK ABOUT HOW THEY SHOULD APPEAR GOING IN AND OUT OF COURT. YOU OFTEN SEE A CLIENT AND THEIR LAWYER WALKING INTO COURT, TRYING TO LOOK CONFIDENT, SMILING, NOT LOOKING FEARFUL, I THINK THEY WANT TO PROJECT CONFIDENCE THAT THEY WILL PREVAIL IN THIS CASE. IN THE COURTROOM, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO COUNSEL A CLIENT THAT YOU SHOULD ASSUME THAT THE JURY IS WATCHING YOU AT ALL TIMES. I'VE TALKED TO JURIES AFTER THEY HAVE SERVED AND RENDERED VERDICTS, AND IT IS AMAZING ALL THE DETAILS THEY PICK UP ON. WE NOTICED YOU GOT A HAIRCUT HALFWAY THROUGH THE TRIAL. OR WE NOTICED THAT YOU USED A DIFFERENT WATER BOTTLE, STARTING WITH WEEK THREE THAN YOU WERE USING WEEKS ONE THROUGH TWO. THEY NOTICE EVERYTHING. THERE IS A LOT OF DOWNTIME, TEDIUM AND THEY'RE WATCHING. SO BODY LANGUAGE CAN BE VERY IMPORTANT. I THINK THAT A CLIENT NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE THEY'RE RESPECTING THE PROCESS, THAT THEY'RE CONFIDENT, PERHAPS THAT THEY'RE INVOLVED IN THEIR DEFENSE, AND I THINK THAT IF I WERE ADVISING DONALD TRUMP IN THIS INSTANCE, I WOULD BE SHARING WITH HIM THOSE VIEWS, REMINDING HIM TO BE ON HIS BEST BEHAVIOR AT ALL TIMES. >> SAM, YOUR COLLEAGUES WRITE ABOUT THE LACK OF A STRONG PRO TRUMP SHOWING OUTSIDE OF THE COURTHOUSE. IN THE PAST, TRUMP HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO COUNT ON HIS SUPPORTERS TURNING OUT EN MASSE FROM HIS SIGNATURE RALLIES TO THE RIOT AT THE CAPITOL. BUT ON MONDAY, AT A PIVOTAL MOMENT FOR THE MAGA MOVEMENT, IN TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN, THE FAITHFUL WERE UNCHARACTERISTICALLY QUIET. ONE PART OF IT CAN BE NEW YORK IS VERY DEMOCRATIC. BUT COULD WE BE SEEING SIGNS OF A WIDER EXHAUSTION WITH TRUMPIAN CHAOS, MAYBE, SAM? >> I WAS GOING TO SAY, NEW YORK IS NOT EXACTLY THE BASTION OF MAGA MOVEMENT HERE. BUT I WILL SAY, THERE ARE SIGNS OF GENERAL FATIGUE AROUND ALL THIS STUFF. I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK, IT IS NOT AN APPLES TO APPLES, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE GRASSROOTS ONLINE FUND-RAISING NUMBERS FOR INSTANCE, THEY ARE DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY ON BOTH SIDES, BUT ALSO MORE SO ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE OF PRIMARILY DONALD TRUMP, HAD ISSUED THESE CALLS OF BEING PERSECUTED AND PROSECUTED. BEING A WITCH HUNT. HIM STANDING UP FOR YOU, NOT THEM. ALL THESE TACTICS. I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE, OBVIOUSLY THE DIE HARD AND THE FAITHFUL, CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IT. THEY CONTINUE TO RALLY TO HIS CALL. BUT I THINK IT'S EXHAUSTED A FAIR NUMBER OF PEOPLE, TOO. WHEN YOU SEE THE FUND RAISING NUMBERS. THE FACT THEY CAN'T GIN UP PROTESTS AT THE COURTHOUSE. >> IT JUST OCCURRED TO ME, BARBARA, I THINK YOU AND YOUR SISTERS IN LAW PODCAST SHOULD WRITE A POLICE
