Has Persona Killed Shin Megami Tensei?

[Music] what's up guys it is gnarly and today I am going to be doing something a little different I'm going to be addressing something that's been on my mind ever since persona 5 came out as we all know the Megami Tensei series of games started in 1987 with a little Famicom RPG called digital devil story Megami Tensei inspired by a novel of the same name it was pretty revolutionary for its time taking on a dark story for the JRPG genre something that the series would later become known for and being the first game to have a large number of recruitable allies something that would later influence game franchises like Pokemon five years later in 1992 Atlas now publishing games under their own name released shin megami tensei the gameplay and story improved on what Megami Tensei and its sequel started it got popular enough to get its own sequel and then a sequel / spin-off shin megami tensei if from this point on the series grew even more into other spin-off series such as the Majin Tensei series the Devil Summoner series and of course the persona series from Wynn persona released in 1996 it was met with enough success to warrant a sequel persona 2 innocents in in 1999 and then the second part of that sequel eternal punishment in 2000 this would be the last we'd hear from the persona series until 2006 when new developers were given the task of developing the next game persona 3 a game that would change in the Megami Tensei series forever persona 3 & 4 were a different take on the Megami Tensei series rather than focus strictly on combat and dungeon crawling these games took inspiration from visual novels and introduced the new mechanic where the player would power up his demons by forming bonds with people in the high school set overworld something that the series would become famous for and would be copied by several G RPGs in the future so why am I talking about this well I want to address a question that's plagued to the Megami Tensei and persona fandom for years that is has persona killed Shin Megami Tensei now fan bases are the same franchises being divided or nothing new when a new entry releases that's different from the previous games it's bound to cause some kind of divide within the fan bass but it becomes even worse when that said game is actually successful and influences the rest of the series from that point onward which is exactly what happened with persona and Shin Megami Tensei this was a pretty heated topic within the fanbase several years ago but I haven't really seen a lot of discussion about this recently but that's actually why I think this topic is more relevant now than it's ever been there's hardly been any discussion about anything Megami Tensei related that isn't persona 5 Shin Megami Tensei groups on Facebook are much less active than they were four years ago Shin Megami Tensei YouTube channels are either dead or have completely shifted their focus to persona even my channel has been mostly focused on persona or Kathryn since I rebranded it a few months ago in this video to address the question in the title we're going to compare what we've been getting for persona to what we've been getting for Shin Megami Tensei since persona 5 came out but first we're gonna look at how things were since the beginning of the SMT series almost 30 years ago before persona 5 and before persona 3 because like I said this topic is much older than persona 5 firstly let's go back to the 90s just to look at how many games we were getting Shin Megami Tensei came out in 1992 followed by both a sequel and a spin-off if in 1994 the first Megami Tensei spin-off series we got was last Bible which released less than two months after Shin Megami Tensei in Japan we got not one but two sequels in 1995 and another entry for the Game Gear the second spin-off series was Majin Tensei which was released in 1994 its sequel in 1995 and a spin-off / sequel for the Sega Saturn Ronde in 1997 now we move on to the Devil Summoner series which launched on the Sega Saturn in 1995 and its sequel soul hackers in 1997 I'll get to the right o series later in the video now we finally get to persona which released in 1996 for the PlayStation persona 2 came three years later in 1999 and its sequel in 2000 and let's not forget the standalone spin-offs Hugh Yakub Megami Tensei in 1995 Jack bros in 1995 and Keaton Megami Tensei in 1997 so before persona 3 we were already getting a ton of Megaten games each year when I lay them out by year we had two games in 1992 another in 1993 three games in 1994 seven games in 1995 one in 1996 three in 1997 none in 1998 and one in 1999 now let's move on to the 2000s which was in my opinion the golden age for the series in 2000 we got eternal punishment the sequel to persona 2 and the beginning of the devil children series with red and black book the devil children series was a more child-friendly take on the Megami Tensei series more akin to pokemons which Alice was trying to copy at the time not exactly everyone's favorite spin-off series but that didn't stop the series from getting a lot of entries we got two more games in 2001 with white book and card summoner light and dark and puzzled to call in 2002 Fire and Ice in 2003 and Messiah Rider in 2004 now let's go back to mainline the first mainline entry of the 2000s wasn't actually Nocturne it was an Xbox title called Shin Megami Tensei 9 in 2002 the game didn't sell too well for obvious reasons so Atlas turned to the ps2 and released Nocturne in 2003 after the release of Nocturne we got a new spinoff series digital devil saga which released in 2004 and its sequel six months later in 2005 now we go back to the Devil Summoner series which got a new entry this time an action RPG starring a new character named Ray Dokus and Noah the first game released in 2006 now before I move on to the rest of the mm in the early 2010's let's take a look at how many games we got each year again in 2000 we got two games too in 2001 two in 2002 three in 2003 two in 2004 one in 2005 and one in 2006 not counting persona 3 now we get into the meat of this video to start off what many fans called neo persona persona 3 released in 2006 with an updated version following a year later then a persona 4 released in 2008 despite how different persona 3 and 4 were compared to the rest of the series this is exactly where the divide began while they were successful for what they were it's important to keep in mind that they weren't exactly flying off the shelves at this point the Megami Tensei series at least in the West still wasn't all that well known Atlas USA was one of those publishers that would localize all the weird Japanese games that nobody else would and these games were no different at the time Atlas was just treating persona 3 and for like every other entry in the series now let's take a look at what we got after persona 3 and for the only game we got between the release of persona 3 informa was S&T imagine an MMO in 2008 we got the right o sequel but Atlas wasn't done with the 2000s yet in 2009 we got another main line entry strange journey and the revival of the Majin Tensei series devil survivor now we get into the 2010s we didn't get any games in 2010 but in 2011 we got Devil Survivor 2 so between 2007 and 2011 we got a total of four games not counting persona three or four one in 2007 two in 2009 and one in 2011 this actually makes six games if you count the persona one in Tori releases and seven if you count Devil Survivor overclocked now we get into 2012 and this is where I believe the separation began with a persona 4 spin-off persona 4 arena this was the first game to drop the Shin Megami Tensei moniker but I mean it kind of makes sense it's a fighting game anyway this game was a part of an arcade game by Arc System Works the makers have BlazBlue and guilty gear and was pretty successful fighting game fans loved to keep up with any and all fighting games that are coming out so a competitive fighting game reasonably brought a lot of fans into the series later that year we got persona 4 golden a re-release of persona 4 for the PS Vita it also didn't have the Shin Megami Tensei moniker you might say it wasn't needed because it was another release but all the other persona re-releases had it sadly none of the persona games after war would include that moniker not even persona 5 and this is where the divide really started to widen with these two entries not to mention an anime adaption it seemed like the persona series especially for whiskey milt which it was and people were complaining about it most of this was actually coming from persona fans because it had been four years since persona 4 and they were ready for persona 5 Shin Megami Tensei fans actually weren't complaining that much because we were still getting SMT games Devil Survivor 2 had just released in North America and a new main line entry Shin Megami Tensei 4 was on its way now entering 2013 we get a huge announcement Shin Megami Tensei crossfire Emily this had everyone really hyped and it introduced a lot of Fire Emblem fans to the Shin Megami Tensei series as well fast forward a few months and those of us in the West finally got soul hackers for the 3ds a few months later Shin Megami Tensei 4 was released and was met with both critical and financial success 2013 truly was a great year for Shin Megami Tensei fans now let's fast forward a few months again Atlas has a big stream of persona related announcements planned and fans are eager for persona 5 to be announced yeah you all remember that announcement right winner 2014 well this wasn't the only thing that was announced a total of 3 persona spin-offs were announced in this stream persona 4 arena Ultimax persona queue and persona 4 dancing all night before the announcement fans were outraged but they finally calmed down once persona 5 had been announced because that's what they wanted the whole time however this is where the complaining from S&T fans began we had a total of four persona games on the way but not much in the way of SMT we knew Devil Survivor 2 record-breaker an smt crossfire and glimmer on the way but we barely had any info on those games other than they're not dead in 2014 we didn't get anything that wasn't persona 2015 we finally got Devil Survivor 2 record breaker but that was just another re-release oh but you know what we did get we finally got a trailer for Shin Megami Tensei crossfire and Lim [Music] [Music] beep lista saved this pissed off a lot of fans and the salt levels were higher than they've ever been 2015 was the year I remember people complaining about the lack of SMT and persona milking the most however we did get an announcement for a new main line Shin Megami Tensei for Final which would become apocalypse in North America so there was still hope for mainline and SN T fans in 2016 those of us in North America got shin megami tensei cross fire emblem now called Tokyo Mirage sessions which fans didn't like not necessarily because it was a bad game but because they were upset that this was what the Shin Megami Tensei and Fire Emblem crossover got turned into however later that year we also got shin megami tensei for apocalypse but unfortunately it wasn't received too well by fans either the consensus was that it had a lackluster story and stereotypical characters which of course fans blamed on personas influence but they still accepted it as a mainline entry so yeah looking back this is where the faltering began not counting persona yes counting Ryo releases now we got one game in 2012 one game in 2013 nothing in 2014 two things in 2015 but one of them was Tokyo Mirage sessions and one in 2016 if you only count persona that's 2 and 2012 one in 2013 one in 2014 one in 2015 and one in 2016 we got a larger amount of persona games than we did Shin Megami Tensei games in this period including re-releases still we were getting something in the way of SMT still now we get into the part about shin megami tensei 5 in persona 5 persona 5 released in Japan on September 2016 after 2 years of delays and poor communication but it was met with overwhelming success 7 months later we got in North America and it was also met with overwhelming success but what about shin megami tensei 5 well as we all though Shin Megami Tensei five was one of the games announced during that big event where Nintendo showed off some stuff for the switch that was in January 2017 more than two years ago since then we've got confirmation of a Western release don't know when though another short teaser and a few droplets of news that the game is in development we've also gotten nothing in the way of spin-offs for SMT no Devil Survivor 3 no ride oh three no new spin-offs either well what have we gotten for persona 5 since then we've gotten a rhythm game spin-off - if you count the persona 3 one a crappy anime adaption a dungeon crawler from the makers of Etrian Odyssey an announcement of what I assume is going to be some kind of re-release and Joker announced for Super Smash Brothers ultimate oh and also hints that there are going to be a crap-ton of persona 5 spin-offs in the future just take a moment to take that all in all these persona 5 products have been released announced or hinted at between the time Shin Megami Tensei 5 was announced and before we've gotten any solid information on it at the time I'm writing the script for this video there's also going to be an event at Sega FES where Atlas will probably announce even more persona 5 stuff the only actual mega 10 game we've gotten in this time or strange journey redux but that was just a rerelease whose purpose was pretty much just to hold us mainline fans over until Shin Megami Tensei 5 comes out oh and not to mention we didn't get a dub in the western version yeah the one game in the series made for a western audience doesn't get an English dub real nice Atlas real nice the last original game we got in the series that wasn't persona with Shin Megami Tensei for apocalypse which was released over three years ago in Japan it really pains me to see Alice treat their most important series this way remember that without Megami Tensei persona wouldn't exist and Alice wouldn't be the successful developers that they are today you want to know what atlas did before Megami Tensei they were making crappy shovelware games for nes usually movie license games yeah a bunch of those terrible NES games that the angry video game nerd reviewed or developed by Atlus oh and don't even get me started on how Atlas ignores the first two persona games yeah we have the DLC costumes and the occasional reference here and there but in the midst of all this persona hype were barely seeing any mentions of persona one or two you want to know what the most pathetic thing about it is in persona 3 portable the female protagonist was long considered to be nan Tannen yet she was still able to make it into persona cute - now yeah Tatsuya aya they didn't make it in yeah the female protagonist is now more canon than these guys I understand that when a series becomes popular you want to capitalize on it as much as possible but still to give the spin-off all the attention and just disregard the series that started it all it's a big queue to both the fans and the creators of those games and the thing is I thought it was bad enough how divided the fans were four years ago now there are persona 5 fans that don't even know that it's part of the Megami Tensei series and I think the reason for this is the removal of the Shin Megami Tensei moniker that moniker being on persona 3 & 4 was the reason many fans myself included found out about the rest of the series now with persona 5 a good chunk of fans don't even know that persona 5 came from the Megami Tensei series it's surprising how many peopIe fans I've met that don't know about the series at all it just seems like now rather than treating persona is another Megami Tensei spin-off like they were doing 10 years ago they've turned it into their main franchise while only keeping main line alive as an afterthought they could be bringing them together but they're not they're making them grow further and further apart I don't like to proclaim doom and gloom for the series but to answer the question and then title to the video based on the way things are now I wouldn't say the answer is yes I'd say more like persona hasn't killed SNT but it's just beat the ever-loving crap out of it and put it in the hospital we haven't gotten any solid smt 5 updates for over 2 years we're not getting any other SMT spin-offs as far as we know and there are dozens of dead was franchises that are just begging for a new entry all while persona is getting milked dry now some of the people I follow on Twitter that have connections to insider sources are saying that will beginning S&T 5 info soon and it's not that I don't believe them but knowing how Atlas has approached this before I have to wonder what exactly this news is now maybe I'm wrong maybe Shin Megami Tensei 5 will be shown at Sega FES or some other near future event and it'll be coming out later this year and then they'll announce a bunch of other spin-offs along with it I hope that's what happens but knowing Atlas that's probably not going to and Shin Megami Tensei 5 isn't the only game we'll probably be waiting an eternity for either with all the focus on milking persona 5 we're probably not gonna get persona 6 for an insanely long time either my prediction is five years I've been called an SMT elitist multiple times I'm really not I love persona and I still consider persona to be a part of the Megami Tensei franchise but I don't have to be an SMT elitist to be unhappy the way Outlets is treating this series and that brings me to my last topic what can atlas do to lessen the divide and make things better the first thing is create new SMT spinoff series bring back some of the old ones too like Devil Survivor and Devil Summoner if that's too much to ask give us some more re-releases like the original Devil Summoner it would give those of us in the West a chance to play it second do a better job marketing these games to the persona audience instead of S&T costumes is overpriced DLC have them be unlockable in-game have advertisements for the other games included with the persona games like in the cases on the ps4 dashboard and in the games themselves lastly and most important include the Shin Megami Tensei moniker on all future titles in the West put the Shin Megami Tensei logo on the covers to do this and I assure you there will be more hype for sn2 than ever before and with that I'm going to end the video anyways I'm interested in hearing your guys thoughts do you guys think Atlas is ignoring Shin Megami Tensei 5 in favor of persona or do you think the series is still alive and well be sure to tell me what you think in the comments and be sure to leave a like it's scribe form or SMT in persona videos until next time I will see you guys later [Music]

Channel: Nyarly

Views: 392,910

Keywords: Shin Megami Tensei, Persona, Persona 5, Persona 4, Persona 3, Atlus, Nocturne, Shin Megami Tensei IV, Japan, JRPG, Gaming, Megami Tensei, Opinion, Review, Nintendo, Switch, Super Smash Bros., Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Wii U, Shin Megami Tensei vs. Persona, History, Kazuma Kaneko, Sega, Persona 5: The Royal

Id: mMVjIQ4B0pg

Length: 20min 20sec (1220 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 28 2019