Harvey Weinstein's ex-assistant speaks out after guilty verdict - BBC Newsnight

the world has noted how hard it's been for Harvey Weinstein to tread the sidewalks of Manhattan these past few weeks but it's not a problem he'll have to worry about in the immediate future the jury in the trial of the 67 year old spent most of last week considering its verdict but they wouldn't detain the filmmaker long today the man who once told showbiz reporters what to print about his movies had one last hello for them within a few hours jurors returned to say he was guilty of raping one-time aspiring actress Jessica man in New York in 2013 he was also convicted of sexually assaulting Mimi hailey who'd been a production assistant on one of his TV projects reporters hurried from the court after Weinstein was acquitted of other charges including the two most serious counts of predatory sexual assault which carried a possible life sentence Weinstein himself however wasn't going anywhere Harvey Weinstein is exactly where he should be now behind bars I think one of the things about today is we will not see Harvey Weinstein come down those steps in his feeble attempts of pretending to be unwell and using a walker because he is now in custody he's been remanded he awaits sentencing in March by Judge Burke and today is a significant day because he's held been held responsible for his actions now that the verdict has come back guilty guilty for Harvey Weinstein I will say once again women were believed it's a day that Weinstein's accusers feared they'd never see it's been the most sensational rise and fall a mogul of the old school a man of money power and success brought down by his own criminal behavior and the bravery of his victims all at once it seemed his image was tarnished the mogul reviled and mocked as a sexual predator Weinstein's british wife left him after allegations broke of hush money paid to women over his predatory behavior one woman who said he'd assaulted her made a secret recording in which he appeared to acknowledge a pattern in his actions Hollywood stars are among scores of women who've accused Weinstein [Music] the producer acknowledged he'd caused a lot of pain he was sacked by the board of his company despite the mounting number of allegations against him prosecutors charged him with offenses against only two women when he appeared in court as his trial finally opened in New York last month the once swaggering Hollywood tycoon cut a much diminished figure and not by coincidence some observers suggested although the jury was directly concerned with what had happened to two of Weinstein's victims they also heard details of four other alleged cases too old to prosecute under New York law but suggesting a consistent pattern prosecutors argued in a rare act of self-effacement the filmmaker declined to give evidence in his own defense leaving it to his lawyers to attack the credibility of his accusers that seems to have been partially successful from their point of view though they're planning an appeal maybe the cards were so so stacked against mr. Weinstein before this even started I don't know what do you think I'm innocent I'm innocent I'm innocent how could this happen in America I'm innocent Manhattan's District Attorney saw it differently Weinstein is a vicious serial sexual predator who used his power to threaten rape assault trick humiliates and silences victims he has been found guilty of criminal sexual act in the first degree and will face on that count a state prison sentence of no less than five years and up to 25 years he won't be needing it where he's going Weinstein awaits sentencing next month with the prospect of further proceedings in California on charges of sexual assault that was Stephen Smith here in the studio the Labour MP and author of every woman Jess Phillips and Zelda Perkins Harvey Weinstein's former assistant who confronted Weinstein about the attempted rape of her colleague more than two decades ago and was silenced by his lawyers Zelda I imagine the hardest thing I could ask you right now is how you yourself are feeling so let me instead ask you what you think will be going through his mind do you think he will register a sense of guilt at this moment it's a hard question because I'm not a psychopath so I don't know really what's going on in his mind but I would imagine that he's in total denial that this is happening and disbelief because his belief in his innocence is enormous that's how he's always been able to operate because he never believed that he's doing anything wrong I don't know if the amount of power that has been lost to him over the last couple of years will have had any deep effect but I imagine he will be going back regrouping imagining his next plan of battle because I remember you telling me that when you confronted him on a terrace following the attempted rape of your colleague he swore he hadn't done it on on his family's life and you said you knew then he was lying did he convince himself at any point the sex was consensual do you remember how he justified it to you or was it just obliviousness I don't think he cared whether it was consensual or not I don't think he thought about it like that he only thought about what he wanted and his focus was always to get submission and no to him was not a word that he understood and he wouldn't have seen it as somebody's desire to say no he would have just seen it as an obstacle to remove just does this look like justice being served tonight it does look like justice and it feels like justice and failed oh and for lots of the women who have been involved I still think that there is a feeling that something's going to come up where he's going to get away with it somehow like somehow because that is the story of Harvey Weinstein that is the story of lots and lots of very powerful men in the whole me to movement or and what we're still in the past couple of years is that there is an industry in place to protect these people and so whilst it does feel like justice and earlier I was shaking when I heard the verdict I still somehow think they'll have some sort of rabbit out of a hat but for today I shall celebrate that we can say that Harvey Weinstein is a rapist you know that industry well you were silenced with a non-disclosure agreement which covered up any attempts to bring him to justice any criminal wrongdoing and that industry still there Harvey might go down for five years 15 years 20 years we don't know yet but that industry is still alive and kicking and this is not an end to any sort of problem so what has changed if the law hasn't actually changed has it been a trial by public opinion I mean this is what the judge warned don't don't put the whole me to trial into the courtroom but it has come in hasn't it well I think that it would be impossible for any juror or for any anybody to ignore the the number the sheer volume of women coming forward about this specific man about Harvey Weinstein however I think that there has been a change now no law has changed in the state of New York to make this happen no law has changed here in response to it although every single politician would sit in front of you and say no things are changing this sort of thing can't go on anymore but actually legislatively nothing has changed and were this not Harvey Weinstein I find it very hard to believe that the same convictions would be felt in courts across the land that I hear in rape cases today but the sheer volume of people in this case I think would always have been difficult to cut to get over but know that I think that in one part of California in California they have legislated to end the use of non-disclosure agreements in sexual harassment but that's the only change we've actually seen in the wake of this are you shocked she disappointed that the two even graver charges the counts that he got off on means that he won't automatically get a life sentence look you know I want to see Harvey Weinstein behind bars I don't understand how he can be found guilty of some and not others but I wasn't in that courtroom I do think that we should we should celebrate the the charges that have been laid against him and hopes that he serves a decent time in prison do you think that other women other people will be emboldened to come forward do you think you played a part in this I hope so but I'm still very [Music] tentative about everything because even you know when I first spoke to you and I broke my non-disclosure agreement I honestly believe that then there'd be an avalanche of other men and women who would feel confident that they could break agreements which were clearly unethical but there wasn't look at the the reporting and conviction on rape trials in this country it's gone down not up so you know yes we're seeing this huge swell in one area and you know there's a lot of positive work happening but the actual academic facts are still a bit confusing why I mean first of all I just want to say that I think this elder absolutely played a role in what happened today and what will happen in the future it's incredibly brave of her to break her non-disclosure agreement but she is one of very few people who have broken their and I have because the penalty is is too high are the repercussions as people do not trust that the power is in their hands to do it so there was an avalanche with Harvey Weinstein which gave Zelda an element of cover even though it was still incredibly difficult to do but I am still I am still being sent stories and accounts by people who have been up against very powerful very famous very political people who still when I say you you we could give you cover to release your non-disclosure they still are like I absolutely can't do it it will combat worse on me than it will on their power because I get approached by hundred I've been approached now by hundreds of people with people you know with agreements with people that we all know when we go back to the law and the way these cases are run Weinstein's lawyer defense lawyer Donna row to know was asked if she'd ever been a survivor a victim of abuse and she said she would never have put herself into a position of being sexually assaulted and when discussing sex she suggested consent forms should be signed your response I mean I think that she was being needlessly provocative in defense of the indefensible however what she portrayed and actually is sort of bravery and the willingness to say it is actually an attitude that lots of people have still that women put themselves in harm's way that women and this was very much part of the Weinstein case carry on relationships whether that's work or or personal relationships with a person who has abused them and that is always used against them and that goes back I'm afraid to just a ridiculous myth about the idea that most rape happens in a dark alley by a stranger lots of people are raped by their husband and they stay married to them so the idea that we are still it is still permissible in court to use those arguments it's both stupid unethical and if someone came to you and said this isn't a Weinstein this isn't a big media mogul there is no groundswell but I think I should speak out knowing what you've been through and knowing how complicated that was would you be able to say yes you'll you'll feel better your life will be better for it for breaking an NDA for breaking NDA breaking an NDA no I can't advise people that because I can't I had Public Interest protection I had me to that groundswell protection I can't say honestly to a woman who comes to me in tears I want to break my NDA I can't advise her to do it without the caveat that it could end badly because the law has not changed thank you very very much thank you in a world where less than 1% of all sexual predators are convicted today's ruling stands out as a landmark moment one that took thousands of hours of painstaking testimony and some of the biggest names in showbiz to make it smart tonight perhaps the focus is on Weinstein but this is not the story of a single predator and a string of his victims it's about what goes on to a greater or lesser extent across many places of work in many parts of the world on almost any given day the ability for the powerful to act with impunity the fall from grace of Harvey Weinstein as a story Newsnight has followed closely from the beginning in 2017 the actress Emma Thompson told us of the shadow' Weinstein had cast over the world of film I don't think you can describe him as a sex addict he's a predator that's different he's as it were the top of the ladder of is a system of harassment and belittling and bullying and if everyone is talking about Harvey Weinstein right now and you've suggested there are probably plenty of others who are guilty of pretty similar behavior hmm why aren't people coming up about the others perhaps the more of us who say this is endemic let's just say it's end you know and I've just said I've been you know I would spent my 20s trying to get old men's tongues out of my mouth you know because they were just thought well she's up for it yeah so I would imagine that that happens really very regularly and so perhaps this is a moment when we can say to men and women open your eyes and open your mouth say something later in 2017 Weinstein's former personal assistant Zelda Perkins broke her non-disclosure agreement with her former boss to conduct her first TV interview with me he was a master manipulator and he you know his moods changed very quickly and you never knew whether you were you know his confidant or whether you were going to be screamed at I had one morning and I have to say that woman really saved my my my honor because actually being warned is very important because it armed you and all she had said to me was always sitting in an armchair don't ever sit on a sofa next to him and always keep your pyjamas and there were no more than that but actually it was an incredibly important and good piece of advice because it meant that I was ready actually when he did start behaving badly in November last year Perkins joined Newsnight again alongside Rowena choo a former Weinstein assistant to accused the movie mogul of attempting to rape her you escaped you fled the room what do you think made him let you go there was a sense that I was a slow boiling frog and certain things happened on the first night but I was back the second night and things got progressively worse on the second night but I'm pretty sure he was in it for the long game not super long but there would be a third night and a fourth night on this particular trip and I think eventually I was permitted to leave because it was as I mentioned part of a game and that there would be another part to this game shortly after the announcement in May 2018 that Weinstein was to be charged we spoke to Rose McGowan the actress was one of the first to accuse Weinstein of rape in 2017 we all know what's going on right and there are different levels of predation for sure but the rot at the top that's what needs to be solved because we've all worked in those places Weinstein has denied the claims made by Chu and McGowan but the me2 movement gained traction around the arrest of Weinstein the movement itself is much older started by an african-american woman tirana Burke a full decade earlier in 2006 not a woman's movement she clarified but a survivor's movement so has the movements now got liftoff Dharana Burke joins me from New York and from a we're joined by Kim masters editor-at-large of The Hollywood Reporter who knew Weinstein through her work as a journalist there tirana let me begin with you because it began with you that phrase me too is what 15 years old now how does this verdict feel tonight you know I feel a lot of things I feel really grateful that the the people who the women who came forward and testified and told their stories see something as a result for it I feel grateful that we can claim this as a moment that that was very necessary for so many survivors and I am also really clear that we have so much more work to do and that the movement doesn't rest on this verdict because you think there is a danger people now assume the jobs done yeah I think there's there's this sort of I'm feeling that this is what we were working toward and this is just one thing that happens in a whole spectrum of things that need to happen to advance us towards ending sexual violence Kim do you share that do you think this feels like a scalp a victory rather than a wider message it was hugely important for the world to see how Harvey Weinstein and handcuffs I think if that had not happened it would have been a crushing blow for a lot of people but I agree completely that the work is not done I mean there's a step there's harvey was such an extreme case it was such an extreme you know over a hundred women coming forward there are people with fewer there are still whole cultures of misogyny in this industry we're addressing that addressing the systems not just of harassment and and sexual violence but equal opportunity and representation there's so much work to be done in that respect you knew Weinstein through your work does this tally did what you hear during the trial tally with your own memories of him your encounters well yes you know I met him for the first time 20 years ago and he asked what I had heard about him it was an off-the-record lunch and I said I've heard you raped women and he didn't exactly deny it and so for the next 20 years we were considering how intermittently how can we get that story I don't think it was gettable until his power started to diminish and I think people within his own company helped to bring this about honestly if the truth were told I know he believes that so yes this is who we thought he was and this is who he turns out to be and the image of him saying I'm innocent and how could this happen in America is such a perfect narcissist reaction to this conviction that it is just what you would expect I'm sort of I'm grappling with that - runner wonder what what you make of it that a man who was confronted with with questions that that his reputation as a rapist preceded him two decades ago wouldn't be worried about that well why would he be worried he was surrounded with so much power and so much privilege privilege and he was in the middle of a system that protected him from so much so I can imagine with that much arrogance and that much power that he wouldn't be worried do you think him there is it you know we don't normally see this is there a problem with with the way we cover Hollywood it sounds like you confronted him straightaway but quite often on the showbiz beat there are questions you can't ask there are contacts that you will lose there is a lot of silence bored paid for within the movie industry listen I've made my reputation by asking those questions and and going forward no matter what we've we've had several stories that terminated the careers of very powerful men in Hollywood and I hope Zelda Perkins who was so courageous knows that there was an explosion at the Hollywood Reporter and other publications and and a number of people were were brought publicly to account and I think that does have an impact so that is the upside of the whole thing and I do think that this also emboldened other press in this industry to be more aggressive but yes you're right there has been a track record in the past of a lot of back scratching I I never wanted a part of it and I know I've never done it Terron it was interesting hearing zelda say she used your movement she used me too as cover to be able to break her own NDA but that she wouldn't recommend it to any woman coming forward now because it you you it you know you you're quite often not believed so she thought it it didn't nothing has changed really in the law what this is thing you are very narrow there's a lot of conversation about why he wasn't convicted on the other three charges and that has a lot to do with how narrow the laws are and how little they cover in the reality of what happens during when people experience sexual violence so I understand her being cautious and when it's a caution other women about the price that they have to pay because ultimately the price falls on the head of the survivor we're the ones who have to make the sacrifices and we're the ones who carry the brunt and the weight of things that happen when it all comes out it's the survivor often time that loses and catch the short end of the stick so I understand her wanting to caution people to be very careful but I also know that this movement has provided community for people in ways that we've never seen before and they know that when they come forward that they are not alone that they are doing that in community with millions of other people who have had similar experiences and I wonder whether you both feel I'll start with you Kim that something has changed in that verdict which is the recognition by a jury that consent or consent actual sex is a very messy complicated concept it's not black and white and it can't be reduced to how you go along with something because it's fundamentally about power I mean that doesn't mean why let me very wrong III read me very wrong that to see the Manhattan da take a victory lap when he did not pursue Harvey Weinstein for years but to give them their due I do believe the prosecutors in this case we're able to educate the jury somewhat saying that rape as was mentioned earlier is not this TV version of an assault in a dark alley and it's complicated and so I think that maybe of the main advance from this whole exercise and that makes it complicated for men doesn't it your honor who aren't sure whether they've had consensual sex or not I don't think consent is complicated I think that we have there are there's a spectrum that we have to look at but I think that consent in and of itself is not a complicated concept and when we tried it when we make it messy and complicated we get to places like where we are now there are very clear ways to get consent from people who you want to be intimate with or who you're in intimate relationships with and people need to exercise that but more importantly they need to know that you can revoke consent as well so a lot of this is about getting consent but a lot of it is about the fact that regardless of where you are in an intimate situation everybody has the right to revoke consent these are these don't have to be complicated issues if we would talk about them head on and really unpack where people have issues that's um that's a big issue takes us to a whole new place but thank you both very much indeed thank you

Channel: BBC Newsnight

Views: 227,921

Rating: 4.5192204 out of 5

Keywords: Harvey Weinstein, Weinstein, metoo, me too movement, rape, third degree rape, sexual assault, trial, charges, jury, guilty, prison, sentence, Zelda perkins, jess phillips, tarana burke, kim masters, Hollywood reporter, new York times, ronan farrow, bbc, bbc newsnight, bbc news, breaking news, news, serial sexual predator

Id: vTI85wix27E

Length: 26min 44sec (1604 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 24 2020