Hamilton Madison Henson Jr.'s interview for the Veterans History Project at Atlanta History Center

today's February 27th 2012 were at the Atlanta History Center in Atlanta Georgia my name is Joe Bruckner I'm a volunteer with the History Center and with me is Toni Hilliard who is also a volunteer at the Atlanta History Center and we're honored today to have with us ham Henson ham is a Vietnam veteran lives here in Atlanta and he's kindly agreed to come in and tell his story in connection with the Library of Congress veterans history project mr. Henson we really appreciate you coming in and looking I don't have you would you give us your full name and your current address please I guess my name is Hamilton Madison instant jr. against the reason panel because my father was called buddy and I thought him until they died that was one thing I would never forgive you for forgiving his name because he didn't absolutely and I'll tell us a little bit about your upbringing policial we grew up I grew up and moved every year when I was a kid I went to first grade in Savannah we stayed there after I was born and we moved essentially every year on the first grade and I could go through the litany on one day I want to go visit all the places but I moved every year around the southeast primarily except for once up in Pennsylvania there in the middle of the summer we moved because of my father's job okay and I moved every year until a lot of those a sophomore in high school and then he was stable enough that we stayed true got school I get to go to high school Osborne high school at Marietta graduated and went a week to the beach and came back to get a start Georgia Tech in a summer quarter and they had moved in the interim period up to Tennessee that was the longest they'd ever been almost all their married life so I moved around a lot and people would ask me what I'll tell them that our unity military Britain no but I kind of went to a lot of things that military people who said they brought the state at a deployment longer than a year at a time and when you went to Georgia Tech did you stay there until you went into military yes yes I went there straight out of high school the only I didn't know any better I just applied to get over one place said I just want to go there we have any money my parents had enough to pay the first course tuition and I'd make a co-op program so I got to going on co-op program for a quarter make some money go back to school okay found a way to work my way through school and ended up graduating in 69 did you have family members that had served in the military yes my my dad was a World War two veteran he was in the Army it's a military policeman and he was primarily the station and the Aleutians and when he came back a little time in Miami Leeson people but most of his time was actually Aleutians okay didn't talk much about it there were heard any stories he died 30 years ago now just after I had gotten into the military okay and he never everyone speak much believed he was in some of the combat when the Aleutians were trying to come across he get a call somebody never he never talked about it at all okay when did you go into the military when I got out of college immediately I had a commission when I went out when I went to after Georgia Tech the first two years I was at Georgia Tech ROTC was mandatory at that time so you had to go on a duo royalty seat and when they told me I'd get out I think it was $50 a month to check if I want to advanced to me he needed money that was that was okay and said you never commitment you know be a novice going on anyways yeah you get to deferral on ok well I'll do that because I enjoyed the girl teasing and stayed in and ended up becoming really interested in it in I was a distinguished military graduate the number two in my class behind my Ranger buddy Mike Dawson he was a brigade commander and I was a deputy brigade commander well we got got back from summer camp huh so that was that was gonna get some recognition for you know leadership skills that I had at that point yeah and then just enjoyed it and I was over because there was a distinguished about reg Regular Army commission which out to it okay yeah so that's how I've been up going right away and went down for being what year was that 60 have been December no 60 65 systems actually December of 70 okay my data mentary talk about your training where you went and any experiences that you had that are particularly memorable to you prior to well when I was going to the infantry officer basic course and that was kind of fun we went out a little bit early there were three of us going down from Georgia Tech who had been the top three guys that to run went down there early so we could go ride on active duty with our our Commission's and stayed down that first 30 days and our first duty assignment this is their first duty assignment we walked in was we were do that wasn't a class and then so the first sergeant told us that we needed to fix the sign and sign that roster so what do you mean he said well let's get different colors Lincoln we have an IG coming and we expect you know it has to be a blue black Hank and there's different colors there so your job gentlemen just to fix these and we said what do you say here's a clean blank book just reproduce in there maybe look like different people that so we helped three stand up we go walk over the company commander his name was cult and I remember we go walk over to them and say sir we gotta you know we're gentlemen we're not going to start off with a crime you don't he said first start to tell you to do it I said well yes go do it okay so that was our first introduction to the military at that point of time it was fun so we went through the basic course I was a undergraduate for the for the basic course simply because I get a test well well just felt about it but I could get to have that then went to jump school and Ranger School when I went over to jump school I couldn't do all pull-ups so they recycled me and sent me over to Ranger School first I'll get to go through the leg Ranger they get the jump in so I didn't have the the jumps that the other people did and I got to go back to the the jump school after the completion of Ranger School huh and that was an interesting trip because the NCOs all respected the tab but also got a lot of flack you know Ranger and they would expect me to yeah to do things for him but I was in very good shape of that kind of time so it didn't bother me yeah it didn't bother me later when I got back from Vietnam I got a science at here one for me for three years and that was as a result of people that I actually knew there I asked him I was gonna be assigned here yeah that was a that was my initial training I went out to Fort Carson Colorado it was about no it was the fifth and then a transition over to the fourth infantry they brought the fourth back at that time Vietnam was starting to wind down there around them that was a recon platoon leader with a bunch of skeptics facilitator in a company exactly and I decided that if I was going to be a professional soldier that I needed to I was gonna be a professional in frontier month I needed to go Vietnam because how was I gonna lead paper if I had so 1049 the CJ was looking for his uh his they called me in and said you know we want to turn down your 1049 I said why so we won't want you to beat they're gonna do ABC coming in and we think you'd be a great aid form would you explain just for the record what at 10:49 yeah 10:49 was a form where you requested to go to get your side and you volunteered every line I was at work I probably wasn't gonna have to go if I didn't down 49 yeah so I actually went in for the interview and I still remember this particularly this guy said you know you got all the credentials you've got a great grades you know you're OVR is good you need to do this it's a big good for your career and I thought look I don't really don't want to go around this is for Congress also kissing yes he likes but I really don't want to do that I really want to go and be a combat soldier all learn what it is so the guy said are respected men yeah I signed it I've gone I get to go to definite when I got to go to glove jungle warfare school in Panama which was fun too and I enjoyed that that was great that was like a little mini Rangers I asked her but the jungle was and accounted for it also accounted for three weeks or thirty days over your tour time then it came back and took a little league time and then went on over to Vietnam from there so that was like my second year I guess in this I was a person for about a year and what do that now when you left to go overseas said you had a lot of conversations with other troops who had gone over and basically done what you were going to do yeah most of the people that I was with a full courser were returning from Vietnam most of them the kids are had all been draftees I say kids you know I was yeah three or four years older than them maybe because I've been to college so I have a conversation with them and with the NCOs and the officers about you know what they did and that was part of what I was doing my company commander where I decided that one to ten fourteen I was a guy named Jack Meyer who I looked up there's a West Point graduate a Silver Star respected very much that's not talking about it that was a part of mine to say as well but mostly I just wanted to give up and there'll be a professional soldier but I needed to go be a professional I know it's not firefight coming in today I was worried about that what was your first impression of Vietnam when you got there you're not off the point I get off the plane and I've been you know climatized pretty much to understand what it was and it didn't feel terrifically hot because I kind of getting used to Panama so I did and I flew into the camera and was therefore on the 36 hours I said I want to go so the 173rd and they said no they're leaving you can other than first and got on a 130 I guess row 123 I forget what and you know fluff to Danang and got a chopper I think it ch-47 had its time anyone over to food by them side they're over there they have us go through like a two day I forget what we called it was like a little in country school or you learn things but I had been to all the other you know Ranger School and and gentle warfare school or their chief or that say already understood what a movie trying to look like anyway you have to do it and everything so that was that was pretty easy to do but just joking report to kind of go through the back talk about your tour in Vietnam but what your responsibilities were what your experiences your relationships with the other troops just what's the most memorable about your tour while you were there when I was there was mid 71 when I was 100 first they left trying to remember somewhere around December somewhere that kind of six seven months living on tour I went in as a platoon leader with the first of the Charlie Company first of the 500 second infiltrate out of food by and we operated primarily out of best of the firebase Bastogne and open some others a little bit deeper part based rifle saw report much from the air but never got over that bed had all been closed down at that not described for the record what that if a fire support base is basically a hill that has had the top round off it and there's a landing pad so you can get helicopters in and out normally it would have a you would have an artillery unit there it was because it was a fire support places the point of it usually it had at least 105 sometimes one five five or larger depending upon the access to the particular piece of terrain and it was supported to hours of supported it was thirty clubs in so we had ground support as well as is there support for it and then it had a defensive four bunkers and everything built all the way around with you know fixed fields of fire laid in so you had a really solid defensive position catch anybody no we never had any problems like that when I was there because at that point in time we'd get one word we did announce we were leaving and except for a few minor times they left us alone we left them alone we patrol around the base to make sure it was straight caught a few people in ambushes mostly we're just just walking around the hills winning at the canopy for maybe five times for a week or two to go try to find some ammunition caches sort or see what was going on but we weren't actively at that point trying to pursue contact you know you know I made it my job basically to keep my kids alive so I adopted the practice of lying and saying we're getting a you know weapons fire from a cruiser weapon looks like a you know Lisa's squad size element when really it was a guy with an 8k to pay a couple potshots at us but I would bring in all the air support you know and whatever I could pound that area down so my kids didn't get hurt yeah what was the Parral like among your troops typically kind of they were never getting ready to go home we had we had a lot of people who had drug problems that we would catch we were very restrictive about shakedowns before we went out on operations and if we caught anybody with anything you know they were almost as fast as been annexed law bird came out guy was back and had charges so much didn't have much problem with Lucy guys would bring some some marijuana but no hard drugs or anything like that a lot of drinking when you went back to the rear alcohol consumption but they they sort of understood that we weren't trying to get them killed they weren't father anymore yeah at that point in time when I was when I was pretending under the commander that we had then and what was going on later we had another guy come in he wanted to get himself up a decoration and he he pushed things a little bit further now what you got the new commander what types of missions did you have to get involved in that doesn't know he was he was volunteering to go push into the canopy oh that's one of I lost kids I came back about mmm say three months into my tour I had a Red Cross evacuation notice that I had a family of murders they just read you if you don't for people don't know about that they would just read your line number out you didn't say names we didn't have secure area so you had a line number that you had on the roster I said my name you know tell them RTO say again he says he says yes your line not Realty so I said ok I gave up my my ticket I guess remember that was about five months in because I had getting this ticket for the last and this is important the last aren't our flight to Australia where there were blonds yes blue eyes okay and they like as I had said I had said I've got them but you got a slot in there for for an officer and said yeah we have to and I said I won't want because they had the most time in the field for any platoon leader in this in this battalion so I want okay they gave it to me so I had an M our reps acts on over we get it and I figured out my website gave it to sort and said make somebody have a good time and he said I well then the kid told me when I get back after mine he said man I had a great thanks I'll tell you that was a lot of fun but I came back and my father was in the hospital he really didn't need me and I stayed there about three days with them and said you know miss my R&R so I left making where they were at that time and went up to land in this world I met my wife on a blind date how about that and if I hadn't come back from there for that night I probably wouldn't met her yeah so hung around for my full 30 days carefully drinking only beer and eating pledge because I didn't cut only and wait and go go grab a 90 pound rucksack begin tell ya to go back there and start hunting because it's taken long enough to get acclimatized and worked out all the time to make sure I stayed in shape because I knew what's gonna go back and do the same thing when I get back they pretend was the company was actually a Eagle Beach and tonight for a little R&R and while I was there the the company commander had left forgotten we got a new guy who came over I was the XO he wanted me as the X I saw was XO for a while and then and went back down again on to take over for tuned when we got a another senior guy and we needed to feed the XO someone make down and that was that was a guy who was kind of looking for for fire fights yeah so he could get a little decoration out of it he you know I get confused there he actually came in before I left and when I came back he was he was uh he was there before I left on my leave and then I came back when I came back he was gone and there had been a booby trap that had gone off while he was gone but while I was gone up along the DMC they're gonna release some Vietnamese troops up there and we're walking around and they went off at wounded his RTO and him the RTO had been Maur to you at the timing you got pulled up becoming there's somebody Frank the guy matera somebody through from kids he was trying to yeah I know that's what happened because it was a part of me yeah was going around him somebody who say he actually was I was going with him there when it happened I came back he was his background okay well that staying his name yeah but he was gonna and there was a new guy Bill Johnson IRAs and you come to come after that and he made me the XO when I came in ok at that point did you go back to pretty much the lesser activity yeah we never really got into the only we went up and relieved trying to remove one of the lamb songs I guess seven one and go get a history but god I look at it but there was a there was an incursion where they were relieved all the troops up on the on the DMZ on firebase that's wound up there took over the fireplace so they could go over and get their rear ends kicked as what happened to them they want got my pocket huh had to get huge amounts of air parity you can get any stretch it out everything I was that was kind of a feather guy had a little thinking I couldn't find it but I still have my original my boonie hat at a warden saw Warren and rot it and everything it has to if my kids said they'll see this there's a banner this soda rounded this orange that was actually something that we don't use to identify our weapons so you tie that on your weapon so you know we know that was sitting there that was your weapon when you were picking it up and trying to find the serial dog and everything I make sure we get the right one you're gonna be sure you get yours because you knew you'd cleaned it nice up ya lazy bums who that inflame his yeah and it but it also had a patch on that I get was a peace sign that said Vietnam Cambodia more games participants I had been sewn onto the very tough of it not before left because it was a little bit too bright had a couple of other little patches over yeah I still have that had this one of the few things of that well I have wet again you know Halloween costumes took over the general fatigue set that I had I was yeah we basically did that and had a couple of a couple of different other missions that we ran around summer marine operations and support of that and firebase and had 100 first was total withdrawal then I got to pack everybody up and send them home and they came over and told me well you're not going on what do you mean so are you getting a stay here except I don't go back to Campbell with no you're gonna stay here you've been selected it says stay and work at a through radio research station food guys they haven't defend that because they were pulling 100 first time there was actually an old French fort there and there was a it was called the age radio research station in it it it has a very large antenna field it was run by the National Security Agency the guy that ran it was equivalent when I was six and he I never got I never got in past the first floor there's security clearances you know around us I was assistant for the top operations they're ready to defensive right but they they fix them of us up combat officers to come over and help them set up and man the defense's around this station that Dan set up there so we had the airfield across the street the radio research station and an antenna field and everything else was plowed and bulldoze down where the hundred first to the minute was all razed to the ground completely Soviet clear fields the fire everywhere around it and and our job was to set that up and defend the place if anybody trying to come an attack and it was there so that they could listen to the company's Chinese it's really what was there for was she knows him to read China was they were monitoring it all from there yeah I found that out years later that was actually the mission for there was a guy named moose Davis who y'all probably knew who was in our group moose was actually there he was the commander for the top opera she was a senior officer and I was a junior guy behind you wow he and a guy named Bob Rosa Rosa died had actually been to live there oh yeah I did fall into the jungle work or school I got together unattended ground center operations school - now what is that I was in Fort Huachuca Arizona which is out at the end of the highway almost it was a no cavalry postmortem a circuit board was that the intelligence intelligence school was down there and that's why it was was down there in they had a little devices there where you could drop the devices out of a helicopter we'd hang out the side of a helicopter we could drop these devices down and there's seismic detectors and a more sound detector she didn't have video back then because it wasn't nearly as you know wouldn't compute everything one computer us but it was high technical the time and you could detect moving along the threat and then you could bring in artillery air support of whatever along moving along the trail so it would go out we're supposed to go out and see the trails I didn't get to do that rosid him and he had some fun with it before he came over to the to the thing of food back that was interesting training there and you know we had some of that stuff set up around the they feel about that you not knew how to operate yeah better that's cool huh how far were you from the DMZ at that point Apollo away well city away it's right next to Phu Bai intercept fifty points that sound about right it was up closer to the top I Corps yeah when we yeah because because we ended up being the in Easter of 1972 we're all sitting there fat and happy calling down to to Danang and talking on the secure radio and tell everybody what's going on we're all finding they ran the border ran over the border in April of 1972 is they because it always be the media skim across the border and we ended up being a one day after it was all said and done we ended up in the northern motion with installation therefore huh because everything else running going to whatever detail you can about what went on from your perspective when the North Vietnamese came across the border what oh I know exactly I mean I was I was inside of those we were giving all over the we were a relay station for for for Saigon because we have direct communication line-of-sight almost communications with the units that were there so we give up this all the time and I would fly aerial recon to see what was further out away from us and they basically stormed across the border I remember reading about the bridge at dawn top and a guy who won the medal there if you remember the memory of him reported that what would you three remember dozen to know what oh he but you know that actually been blown here's what it meant from a tactical perspective there was a briefing that over to them so the lieutenant colonel who ran the infantry part of our facility for the purpose of the the oral history would you describe that just a little bit what that soldier did oh I can't remember he's a Marine I remember correctly you know his name time I said anybody got me he was a marine and basically he ended up climbing out all the bridges and Marine officer ended up climbing essentially Island Bridge by himself with limited covering fire and was moved into a couple of three times while doing this and went out on the bridge because he realized because he remembered it from our memory that she said that I remembered it from regular school and the reason our bridge because I remember Rangers come to when he talked about it remember these is that class he was talking about here's how you do it here's where you said it to blow it and that stuff was imprinted and when you needed it so he said how someone do not do it yeah so he crawled out underneath this thing and blow this bridge set it in place and move it so in your position you've had a pretty good grasp of everything that was going on no it was it was you know it was kind of being the RTO for the guys that were up there and the guys that were overrun there was a guy Jim Avery remember gonna be yeah he's dead now he came in he later came over and was was a ground committee chief there weren't important when he came in I said I know you and he said he said yeah the last time we talked to each other you gave me a uniform so I could have something to wear because when he came in he had on a t-shirt his load bearing equipment was as a weapon his helmet pair of skivvies his boots because that was what he got out with when they over ran he was a faculty adviser when they overran the place they ran to the burbs that was all he had with it we get on the plane we had to get him some clothes to wear so then it came down well well as close as you were to the DMZ I'm assuming that there were some there was a potential danger of you getting overrun wasn't there yeah well we thought we actually went out I was equivalent of the s3 Air s3 as an Operations Officer for those don't know the acronym so I had to I had the responsibility to go out and do a we take a pink team which was a Cobra they had some gunships they're still at food Bible take a cover it had a lot of observation helicopter and we'd go out and just do like the last light recon and one of the things that we did every time was to go out and make sure that the land evacuation route over to the lorentz station it was the Navy station it was a long-range radar station back then and have GPS they were using radar point so the guys have enough in the water in the Navy they had these two or three radar beacons that they had so so they could try and light their position I mean exactly where there were so that the naval gunfire that came in was very accurate because they they had position fixed out there with those huh well we knew that was a fairly secure point they would get evacuated out and we had a plant to move out of if we got overrun we would evacuate on the ground it was anybody that way we were getting 122 rockets and all the time they were trying to hit the airstrip with those Donnie Moore was the RTO I've dr2 he was the fire support officer he was our artillery West Point guy you know we'd go out in a Hindu glove I forget this specific term fort we would go out and actually measure the angle of the entry for the rocket that they would fire in and try to get an assessment of work came from so to do some internet you can counter battery fire with the artillery that was that was still around there yeah as the naval guns to do something with it but they were off every time we do it they moved and we knew there was nobody there when we set off they thought they had already moved to white to set it up to move the way that they had formed in that's over to get those in you know every night for a while and it was a lot of law there are a lot of track vehicle tracks when I go out a flour tortilla canopy and look down a straight edge you can see places so near that there were probably the pt-76 is so like tanks that they had they probably had those down there now you know I was able to leave I got on a burden left and that was all still going on it was ending my tour don't go then I got on a helicopter and slowed down the night is happy to be well what you left and this was 1972 right yeah you go oh we're late one incident yeah this came up with with news Davis and I had forgotten about this and boost who's hidden remind me about it what he died from cancer now I got the chance to go over to sit with him take him over for his treatments over at the hospital and moose had been some heavy combat on his first tour he was with the with the 173rd and he had been not forgetting the engagement Abbey one of the really heavy engagements I think the fourth effort or they were on the hill and basically took something like seventy percent casualties he's been one of the the guys that was was there as a lieutenant he was a captain at that fourth time he retired as a colonel we boost that you remember when we got in a jeep that time you and I we drove up one when they were when the Vietnamese were all screaming back and I said yeah and he said he said you know I was in a lot of combat with us and scared I said I've ever been and I said I said I'm trying to run he said oh you remember because we talked about and we were these guys were all passing us coming back all these victors and we were just trying to go to see what was going on who was where and he said all of a sudden he went I wonder if those are the South Vietnamese were treating or if it's people who have gotten their equipment and put on their uniforms and we're going behind them yeah and we stopped turned around and cut back and left like right away he said that's when I wasn't scared is I've ever been that we were I was gonna get ya killed because they were way out there on old us uniforms you know captain or lieutenant riding around and the chief yeah not supposed to be out of there we just said we were going to kind of look and see what was going on longer half so they all packed up and left I get back throughout from tonight and a definite long time I've been in and out of country a couple of three times because I'm taking that quickly and emergency leave and stuff so it was a little anticlimactic to be on the final word going home but it still was good and all the kids were cheering in on me yeah we got off I was one of them to came back to go live in a San Francisco when you left that this was rather late in the war what was your opinion of what was going to happen militarily and all up to the country I didn't think then what we saw when they get overrun we didn't think what stop that what stopped that offensive was US air support wasn't it wonderful when the air whenever the skies cleared enough they lost because of the air support if the air support hadn't been there they were gone as far as they wanted to go because they were better than the average you know the Vietnamese Ranger gonna be the music long troops they were really good and able to fight the other guys you know as soon as something started my experience have been there wasn't a whole lot of there as compared to you know American fighting you know but again I was 101st right you know most everybody there was that volunteer to be there yeah when you were in Vietnam did you have any opportunities to deal with the civilians takes on a very limited basis a couple of times when to to have a meeting with a village chief but I really didn't have a lot of a lot of interface you know the macd guys were trained for all that and did that we didn't much at all of you know we had hooch maids who came out and fixed her hooch is when I was at food by they were allowed to come in through the wire but that was all then you know we talk to them a little bit they could speak a little English about what they had done and it was kind of sad really hear what they had to do to survive but uh not much interface the closest that I get was I bought of actually when I came back when I came back the first order came over to pick me up from one of my trips I think the time I flew out through Hong Kong and back and came back in the first hour came over pick me up I'm sitting the back of the Jeep and I had just bought up they were closing the PX at - thanks I bought a Rolex Submariner watch for 125 dollars cat for a great long time until they wanted to prepare there was going to cost $700 in farad I don't have the money to do it but I had this for watch home and I sitting in the back of the of the Jeep like this and the next thing I know my arm is out there's this kid hanging out of it one of the watch he reached over to grab Washington felt Mormon uh I was able to get my because I wanted to label officers able to get my hand around and grab the hold of his arm and the first sergeant had already reached over to pull this 45 out and he's going up success huh we said well well how about so he pulls this pulls this big K bar that he had that he always had he pulled it out he goes says what we just didn't hold him back in the kids eyes get really big my Kathy and the driver said now it's just taking him for a ride so we wrote him along for a while until he started to loses then we're doing like 30 miles an hour he's trying to bounce up and down he let go my watch and then I let go of him down the street now yeah I still remember that but look on the kids face does he thought oh I'm in trouble now because they got hold norm and I didn't get to watch so trying to think of wait can I do these pictures yes okay these these are pictures they're suffer month that I found that sent back to my wife and this is just sort of the things that people could see these were taken with us I had a black-and-white 8 millimeter Sam sit back okay that's the first thing that's had a black-and-white held millimeter camera that I had ball so I can quote take pictures if I needed to out in the fields that I carried around we didn't weigh anything it was a little spy camera kappa fine but i took these with that and these are the only pictures i am doing the other didn't have anything else to take pictures with so this is this was the officers hooch when I was with 101st and that was really a nice place if you were used to living out in the bushes it has a tin roof it had screens it hit sandbag built up around side up but in case it was a rocket attack so you could be fairly safe inside and it had a refrigerator so it was it was nice and had cots so it was really a great place to live this is the view from let's say here's a lot this is what you would this is what we would typically live in where we were when I was running around out of the foothills I'm a bachelor yeah who would set up a not defensive position and you put some low-lying Poncho's down on the ground because we weren't in a situation where we were too concerned about getting attacked but we still set up and we're allowed to kids to put up on chose the right only a couple of times we're not dead so you'd see a a hilltop with this kind of stuff on this is a view from a poncho inside of a poncho boots which you would make by putting together these guys could really do some elaborate stuff that you learn to do you carry a couple sticks around with you and you can make this this mooch out that would kind of everybody had like two ponchos I still have one of those heavy rubber concepts that I have over storage you know I didn't go get I have an old Mountain drugs activity that you could you can snap all these things together and you can make it into a pretty serviceable tip I set for a week and a half of the mindset of one of these things we made up by our tio and I make up and we stay dry you know basically uh we can have one hurricane we just run it set inside the pajama put a floor in it trashed around the size of it and you just built it out of stuff that's the gear that we would carry this is sort of what I would look like oh it's the kid with this is a picture that something one of our kids took in that's my artillery but they've got a little comments on the back here from him all right this one says I says this is pretty Vietnam nice little Hills to walk home cuz we were operating up at the mountain yeah it wasn't over in a shot were really good heavy but I was too still walking though there's a rank around there that was you know that was what we kind of operated off so I was in yeah Sean no no I never got over took a shot well the edge always was closed at that point in time we didn't want to go over there there was no telling what was inside yeah show that point I've heard other people talk about being in there everything I've ever heard of read about it as that shell was a place that I was happy I didn't have to go to this is a this is your office this is this one says this is a you can't really tell much but it's what I've sent it over to my not even then fiancee but just my girlfriend this is a close-up of the beautiful countryside notice the shell hole in the foreground and the burnt trees on the horizon because that's pretty much what it would totally this is justice just a shot and you can see up to be held this way yeah yeah focus I don't like Phil there but you can see there's a show about the four rounds in which is the canopies burned off yeah and this this is a this is the one time I get to use my camera for evidence this is a from a fire base there's one a way to opened and I can't remember if it was seems like it was rifle but I'd have to go back and look it was the furthest one way to opened up we came back in my lieutenant came back my company came back in there was a kid named Wilson who got killed there and we Wilson got killed as we were in a men I wrote his name on here's why I remember Richard Wilson he was burning trash that we had on his fire base and there was a hole to burn the trash in and it was a mortar round down the bottom of it he was over dumping trash the morning around blew up and killed the kid no combat you know hey I'm just in the wrong place at the wrong time when they were surrounded going down below yeah and embedded in the mud there sometimes back in the past they get hot enough to and I said was there was what detonated around Josh and he was a ended up being a Catholic one of the few that I have he was the only ka that I had really not a lot of another guy that I talked to you know they were putting people on buddy bags on birds all the time I think I did I did some of that with other people but not for my yap attendant I lost Tim and two other guys one from direct fire and one his foot blown off in a booby trap well you obviously did a good job of protecting your troops try to so we just were very careful when I got to be there and it was gone nobody really needed to yeah didn't want or any medals you don't want anybody you know enjoy ready to get the kiss on right you had a sort of an unusual experience going home on emergency leave and then coming back and I'm assuming you you had conversations with friends and family what type of questions did they ask you what was their perception of what was going on what was your experience going back mid-tour in dealing with civilians back in the city I don't remember a lot of strong controversy because I pretty much stayed around you know friends that I knew a couple of us stayed with he had been in the Air Force and they actually been had a little bit earlier than me cuz he didn't stay in school got out and he was in the Air Force and went to uh he was down on his own camera yeah I guess I'm not a big Air Force plane either and he just kind of hung around down there now for most of the time and didn't really do anything you get you get hurt by stepping on or soap in the shower and fell and broke his elbow or something you get a medivac down for that so I didn't really have you know when I talked to my my then to be later on fiance in future wife a little bit about it but not the time except I did keep a thing for a long time I still have it where she basically set me down and said you got to talk to me and tell me what's going on or we can't have a relationship because I had clammed up about anything I actually shared some with her did you but not a lot I don't want shielded from anything and I didn't have a lot you know nightmares about good because I wasn't in heavy stuff like the guy I know you know I know a couple of really good friends who still they won't come to our meetings because they can't you know they can't talk about it yeah they can't be around people right they just don't want to I don't have any any desire to I I spent my time out in the field I grew up honey when I was a kid got on South Georgia and you got a handle a rifle or a shotgun very well didn't hunt when I got back because I did trust myself to be out walking around the woods and have something to meet react to it yeah you know like I was fearful you know walking because I walk time sometimes won't slack and just so the kids would see me that I'd do it too when I was particularly but I would talk about what you did when you got back when I came back when to forbidding and get son of the Year award from my committee chief when I got over there was a guy named Bob Howard if you don't know who Howard was Howard was the most decorated soldier they had not been a month recipient he was a captain at the time and I didn't even know who he was when I came in I just walked him reported to him and he you know squirted me away and tell me what I was gonna do and I'm still be a safety officer their training officer but I notice that the NCOs you know a great respect for the guy until we were on a parade out in front of infantry halt head on our green side you know they're not real obvious he got ahead that blue was he they said yeah you know who he is and I learned about him later on in life and was actually fortunate enough to be his escort when he was the president of the metal Honor Society when it came down here two or three years ago I said if he's there I'll up his escort I didn't know he was president town that wanted to have his challenge going that he gave to me why not told him you know remember he said no remember Wow and related a couple stories about my wife Thanks it was an amazing guys well that has a special that was great that was a great tour no cigar out committee for year one over a year and a half went over to our committee and I always said that if when I was here I get promoted to captain I always said if I could have just stayed there for twenty years and just gotten cost-of-living adjustments and never got a erase you know I would never get promoted or anything it was just a great duty because everybody was yeah although all the instructors were top-notch people hang out there was it was fun but I left there anyone to the advanced course so when I came back I didn't get you know one of the things you said I have how were you treated came back I was respected just good yeah yeah so all the guys are friends who talked about you know that's that's good how long did you stay in the matter nine years steady nine years I went uh I had a left of department because they wanted me to get away I thought it was gonna go to the Advanced Course at empty Hall which was down at the end of the field and just stay where we work but I was told that I was gonna go to a Ben and small unit stuff to him on the the light infantry and I needed to be cross-trained Solomon to the armor skill they are advanced force at Fort Knox and rotor meadow their net was good for to be trained to go yeah mission then was to go fight the Russians in the one they came through the Fulda gap yeah so that was that was fun we had our first baby there at Fort Knox and that was uh that was an interesting experience and I decided I really prefer being in the infantry I really didn't want to be on a big target because victorious like that piece you've really big flames that you can talk about it all you won't do it it's nice to ride around just a walk or go jump out a plane around Hey look I about his big target but it was getting then I went over to I went back to Fort Carson where I had been before and stayed out there and I was out there outside of dock there was i I was selected together graduate school at Syracuse University I had like eight half years and they wanted me to go to Georgetown Georgetown and do you know international stage and I said no I really wanted to took us somewhere where I could get something that I could but they wanted to be an operation specialist because that was my background I've been a three and a three year and everything else our our bid was whatever units the whole time and I was good at that just didn't recognize it and I was saying I wanted to do something different I want to be a order to go up to the controllers to Capt rol on the artists at Circle University I would go there and then I would get the degree of master's degree in something that would be usable on the other side yeah because I still make a joke about it you know then you say well what skills do you have that you can translate without thinking about it used to say well I could go help among shiners in North Georgia make sure that nobody can do a there still are there marijuana farm or whatever okay I can do that if you want to go jump into a place and we'll set up a farm there with stuff that's just dropped in in there no roads we could do that too you can go marijuana with that that would that would be the kind of things that you hadn't learned or did I get on to on that we said you resigned yes owners I'd just decided to when I went over I want to talk to my s1 and I said what does that mean because the guy called me out for a month from do you say major to call me up and he said you know captain you're brash you know we told you you're gonna go here they're gonna do that so we decided what your career path and I said well I understand he said so you really want to go to this school and he said okay well you know you got a really good file you said so if that's what you want to do I'm gonna grab that no really because I could sort of expected it and we go yeah you're not going to and that would be my reason we get out okay they want to get us killed yeah because it was born it was all-volunteer army never say they everybody was you know it was a different you know I wanted told the s-1 he basically explained to me without going through the long thing there's a whole series of schools promotions and everything else see ya know one another to go to you go to grad school that's another you go to grad school for 18 months then that's three years because you got an 18 month commitment act on the end up to go to school while you get promoted etcetera so he had me up to eighteen and a half years and said you either in or out because you're in for twenty right now or you're out you got to decide so I got out once I did I just didn't want to do that with kids at home because I had come back had come back from a reporter mission and my youngest kid who was like two then she's heard the story behind her mother Jordan is that identity no I really never something I don't like yeah there's something wrong family did matters yeah if I had been married I would probably say Brian well it tell us a little bit about what you did once you got out that family or business got out was it uh what's getting ready to come I tried to get sent out tons of resumes through Georgia Tech and I'll try to get a lot survived never never get a job offer and then finally get a were packing up and the band to go to come back to Atlanta because that was home that that been in town for my wife's from entire gonna come back here and get a phone call and I said we're gonna give you a job offer for the chirps company Lincoln National and I said okay so you get a package tomorrow I have to go tell the moving van guys do not take this tool and take it to Fort Wayne in the end we're on a training course for six months funded by the GI Bill for me they're able to pass a little money but we also get some some educational benefits out of it that they have for the funding for it and ended up working there and moving around to Chicago sang those for a little bit and getting ready to go to Houston and I got an offer to be a consultant with a company that was out of Louisville Kentucky when I talked about the forum talked about I'm really not gonna move he called me up and said what are you gonna move into Houston I said I'm going down there to take over the office he said well I'm offering you a job and this came about through a friend of mine a friend of mine who's one of the guys that I had mentioned that was was my father-in-law he was interviewing for a position over in Charlotte for this company and I uh I had actually talked this guy around the national practice for this for the section where of her and he said you told me you weren't releasing versus it a civil would you think about taking this job to this guy had asked us when we were in Houston we came back my wife and I went down to look for a house in Houston came back that was on Thanksgiving weekend this guy came over on Friday was talking through this job they were huge interviewing for up in Charlotte and he said I'm not gonna do it he said was I'll put your name in the pot if you want because he was basically the same positions mean he just been doing it for a longer period of time he got coming back and said well you take the job and I said yeah I guess I'll talk about he said well it's not gonna be in Charlotte and I said oh he said it's gonna be in Atlanta and I was like okay you know it's sort of like okay yeah I'll take the job will you pay me anything and where the Papa didn't like that was what our so we've moved back to live in the same house kids all went uh you know to the same elementary school went to high school with all their friends they live in town right I did sounds good I want to be sure we get some information that we didn't get a lot of detail all I want to be sure we have a description of the units you were in while you're in Vietnam yeah welcome to use this yeah no well that's actually basically Charlie firstly oh dude it's on there oh my god now I remember what paternity was okay Trotta first the others that was out of he was out food back and then when 101st lab and I was there with the company has the Excel 101st that I'll son date the radio research kind of helps the name yes I show you my training aids in there good you know what this is hey I'm thought your life yes yeah this is a wonderful piece of paper okay this and we had I was there there fortunately enough to be to be with people to get some of the first places that were nightshirts they weren't wool they were made out of fleece which was a revolutionary new fabric at the time when they call it something else you know general experimental shirt or something but the good thing about it was this it would wick away the moisture and was a sleeping sure save my house if you had this your poncho you could wrap up in and a poncho liner then you were you were good together whatever the weather was you can use this for a sunshade I had one that I had made into it you put the punch over the top had some in you had a hole cut in the top I have another one they had I'll show you had to have two ponchos and to functional honors and the ladies in the village would make you a jacket if you remember of those I had a jacket how to leave it when I left for some reason I didn't bring it back with me out on that but I actually can now have a this that's the antique punch aligner that I have this is not one from Vietnam that's when I got back when I got back that I bought myself that I'll get regular Joe's in for many more that just so I have my own poncho path that I carry and I have since bought one of the newer ones with the digital combat on and I sleep with that at night it's like my security I was gonna show these yeah this is this is called evolution but it doesn't take very long this is a handmade and I'll hold it up so everybody see it this is a handmade knife Sorrento brothers knife out of Orlando Florida it's a really fine knife okay high-grade steel it'll cut through the side of those you know Eric dogs would cut through the side of an aircraft comes with his own sharpening stone you know heavy brass he'll my brother bought this for me I carried it for about three weeks it's just too heavy okay and you don't need you know you're not this is not like your enough trench in World War one you didn't need it so I had and this is not in it because somebody stole it but it's a fact so much so I had a hit of buck knife that I had gotten in Ranger school okay just folding buck knife you can't get these anymore I was like either you know you don't have the rosewood hang on I carried that for a while you know just carried on all my web gear but you know that's high-grade steel okay and to keep it sharp you really have to work very hard to keep this thing sharp couldn't have diamond homes or so I ended up with probably what everybody else did I know whatever was TL else periods alignments night okay but he held his head of tiel's and had a blade on it like a penknife and anything had a screwdriver blade that was thicker so you could pry stuff if you need to but if you sharpen the end of it you could also use it like a chest yeah so you know the value of that was it was fairly soft steel so you could sharpen and keep it sharp all the time keeping point it didn't weigh anything because after a while you get to where you realized none of this stuff matters have got to carry around over the function have to carry water dedicate carry ammunition and later on carry extra everything wasn't my personality Tom had extra battery for video it's a mixture of grenades for the m79 guy carry couple extra grenades for this case an extra seat floor in case we needed it so I would I know but always just skip a line where they look whate the rough side cuz my way well overweight Minotaur but I was a good guy so I could carry that carry a lot of weight yeah but there's just just a couple of pieces that I've had they were really revolutionary you're not betting keeping good track of time here so well we don't we don't we don't worry about time to hit toll do you have any questions no I want to give you a chance before we finish let's say anything else you would want to say either about your experiences in the military in Vietnam and life in general or any message you would like to give to anybody who watches this either in the near future or down the road and a letter girl is going to try to read in but if you want to read everything I've never been able to read without crap it's a letter that I wrote on marks twenty-seven before the Easter night before materialized ago there was a total surprise pretty much to us and I wrote this back to my wife and it was about somebody shooting a dog they just incensed me they shot the dog and they wounded the dog and I finally got I care that when when I was uh when I was his tough guy I carried a 45 and on the 69 character 45 another an old man 79 when I was riding around and doing sessions because I had all they had the best for it and I had all sorts of different round so I have elimination round that's the most where I could go out and check things and I didn't need to be involved in a firefight never really good I need to know but but what it is is uh it says I get mad today I mean mad the Colonel's driver shot this is old mangy dog they used to hang around with custody but but uh I get mad about it because I this dog got wounded twice and I finally found it we killed it with a shotgun and I couldn't understand why I got so bad yeah yeah probably whatever the last few years have I realized that was my PTSD experience because at the end of the letter talks about why am I getting concerned about a dog yeah when I'm actually over here trying to figure out better ways to kill people here my job Bianca and people that have been hurt and lost it you know that was sort of my PTSD yeah I didn't have you know other people had I've never had any of that yeah I didn't have a whole lot of trauma but I recognized this it's not it's not perhaps my hair is right I have talked about a little bit but then I went back into meeting went to the infantry school yeah immersed myself in the spirit of bayonet again and embrace that as far as my service I'm proud of my service like I said I was a state it's become more important to me I probably wonder about I have is that but I didn't stay my wife and I were walking on the beach in 1990 or whatever it was that they were getting ready to happen the first invasion to cross the border into Iraq syndicate retired at 20 Christine Simran she said yeah if if you were alive which is doing some of the stuff you were doing - you may not have been if we were married it would have been which we probably wouldn't have been because most of the people you were hanging around who stayed around Iran they're you know second third and right now you'd probably be you know in command of a brigade or something with the 82nd airborne sitting over there waiting to do something and I'd be scared to death so we're fine we're fine here and you know taking that the one thing I probably should have done was a state of reserves because I didn't have enough thought I had another choice after all my service all I had to do was go to summer camp for two weeks and then I wouldn't still be working out I'd be retired I'm still working a little bit now each other to make things work instead of hanging around but I didn't want to give up two weeks a year with my kids yeah well I'll tell you a couple of things they're clear to me from this interviews number one you are an outstanding leader you you obviously want to protect your bed and you still accomplished your mission and you took point when you didn't have to and you did you did everything a leader should do and you should be proud of that and you obviously are a good family man because you put family above everything and you should be real proud of the way you served your country and lived your life and it's it's an honor for for me and for Tony to have been able to hear your stories and appreciate it well we really appreciate you coming in and sharing your story and we're honored to have been able to listen to it thank you very much

Channel: Atlanta History Center

Views: 3,705

Rating: 4.7818184 out of 5

Keywords: Veteran (Profession), Atlanta History Center (Museum), Library of Congress Veterans History Project

Id: h7bVwFndjxE

Length: 65min 43sec (3943 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 23 2020