Growing Pains: Moving from Developer to Manager

um welcome to drupal camp asheville 2021 our 10th anniversary which is super exciting um again virtually this year but we hope to see all of our friends next year um before we get started i want to do a little bit of housekeeping i want to remind folks that there is a code of conduct you can find information about the code of conduct on the website along with the the front page of the hop-in you'll find alana and avi's information if you have any sort of conflict stuff reach out to them reach out to the organizers and we want to make sure that everyone understands that the code of conduct applies absolutely everywhere if you happen to be in asheville at the in-person events it applies at the in-person event and it definitely hap applies in our drupal slack space in the asheville camp space in our hop-in um chat space and here um in the room and um right now we have rolando scott he is the director of development from tayot creative and i probably said that wrong but i'm sure he'll correct me um he's going to talk about moving from development to manager or team lead um and talk about some of the growing pains that that come along with that so take it away rolando thank you very much amy thank you uh guys for being here it's a it's an honor to be able to talk in in at these sessions um this subject in particular i think it's very interesting because it's something people kind of fret they they're a little bit scared about making this move um it's essentially you know if you see it from a granular level it's essentially a change of career um going from developer to manager a team lead so while you're still having opportunities to code you know your your whole focus on what you should be doing in your day-to-day is going to massively shift and because of that you know people tend to be a little bit afraid of it but it's nothing that you should be afraid of um and we're gonna get into it um pretty soon so let's give it a start um so like amy june said my name is rolando scott um i am from san jose costa rica i've been working remotely with companies in the states for i don't know let's say 15 years now i've worked with drupal since drupal 6 drupal 7 drupal 8 now in all you know nine i'm the director of development at creative it's a creative agency in washington dc we currently have around 35 developers so i oversee the managers we we're divided into six teams each one has a manager each team has about five or six devs and i uh manage the managers of those teams basically so i'm at the top of that pyramid um i'm also a volunteer firefighter and you know that's very something very dear to me because it allows me to give back to the community in a you know in a different way that's a little bit about me this session is for developers [Music] that are considering or they're being considered for managers or team leads um you know there's also for developers have recently been promoted and managed to team leads or you know managers or team leagues that have been at the position for a little bit now but um they're still struggling to kind of you know understand and and manage things correctly right so this is for everybody and and in the end it is for everybody because we all have our own managers right and there's things we could learn here that we could kind of suggest to our managers if they're open for feedback which they should um [Music] so you know there you are you're a great developer doing an amazing job at your company or your agency and somebody says hey you know you've been doing such a great job why don't you be the manager right and it's it's a really hard transition right because you're not really sure if you will be a great manager um the traits that made you a really good developer are sometimes not useful as a manager right we we've all heard of the the syntax right or ninja coder or you know the guy that works 60 hours 70 hours a week and does amazing things and puts out fires and all these things like that they're very technical and they're very they're great at problem solving code right that doesn't necessarily translate into being a good manager being good with people right um so it's really hard um you know to to know if this great developer that that you see will transition into being a great manager right so it's it's it's fine it's fine to be scared um because it is hard and not to put more gasoline in the fire especially since i'm a firefighter but once you become somebody's manager you have more responsibility around that developer's happiness and motivation than anybody else in the company there's a hundred people in the company but you will literally make or break that employee and you can make it you can make things um or the environment great or you can make them terrible for that person and make them want to leave so there's that saying that people don't leave bad jobs right they leave bad managers and that's true i'm sure we've all had situations where maybe the job in itself like what i'm doing is fine i can do it perfectly fine the company is fine but the person that is managing me is not a good person or is not doing it in the correct way so i'm looking for another job just because of that person right and the inverse is also true you know maybe the company is you know not that good maybe the work that i do is not that fulfilling but my manager is great and they make me feel awesome they they give me you know a lot of time to learn they make me a better person a better coder you know and i'll stay around because of that person right so it is hard a transition is hard and you now understand that you have a lot of responsibility riding on your hands right um i think the first thing that you need to understand when making this transition from manager to um to a i'm sorry from the developer to a manager is that it's no longer about right when you're a dev and you're a senior developer it's all about you like i am the best coder i am you know i can do i can problem solve the best i i you know i'm very good at these specific things um that's all great when you're a developer but when you're a manager that no longer matters like you don't want to be the best coder in the room in fact if you are the best coder in the room that means that you're not doing the best of jobs as a manager like you need to make sure your team becomes better than you or you know better than they are right now um you know there's there's that quote i put in there that true leaders don't create followers they create more leaders the way you create a leader is by giving them all the tools for them to grow as people first and then grow from a technical perspective right the reason i say that it's no longer about you is that because you need to put your team's interests first and then your own right one way that i find that is is really fulfilling that you might think at the beginning you might say no a lot of that makes no sense especially for a new manager trying to make the name for themselves right is to make things in a way frame things in a way where whenever your team does well that win is your team's win but whenever things go wrong that's on you right so the way you you talk about these things is very very important um if if somebody in your team did something good let's call some let's say mary for example mary was able to fix an issue on a complex site and it was great and the whole team was able to work on something in advance on something because mary did a great job that is great that is great and that applies even if you were the one that kind of told mary hey here's what you should be doing right even if you were the person that kind of pushed them in the right direction it's mary's win and it's the team's win right but when things don't go well right it's it's it's in your best interest to put that blame on yourself um it's best to say you know oh i didn't give mary uh the best tools to solve this issue or why i you know this is my um this is on me you know because i i didn't set up everybody uh for for success right your devs will thank you so much for it because there's nothing worse than being you know as they say thrown under the bus right there's nobody wants to have that boss that when things go wrong they immediately start pointing fingers right this will go a long way with um you know having your developers trust you and think the world of you right um and also as a manager you do have some lead way of saying hey you know this isn't you know things didn't go as well okay but you know next time we'll we'll make sure that they go better right so again once you become a manager it's no longer about you you have to put your team's interest first make sure everybody knows and sees when they do well which obviously in the end is going to be a reflection on you as a manager right but you have to put your team's um you know public appearance first right make sure everybody feels good and make sure everybody knows that it was your team that did well when things go wrong you know you take the blame for it you learn and then you move on that is very very important um let's talk a little bit about imposter syndrome right because that was definitely the first one of the first feelings you're gonna feel once you become a manager you're gonna think you know maybe they made a mistake maybe they shouldn't have made me manager maybe i'm not ready for this um you know you're gonna look across the aisle and maybe see other managers doing amazing things and their teams doing great and you're going to think well maybe i can't do that right imposter syndrome is that voice inside your head that tells you that you aren't qualified even when all the evidence points to the contrary and it's the constant thought that you're faking everything and will eventually be found out as an imposter i don't know a developer that hasn't felt this at some point in their career i don't you know this obviously happens in every industry but i think development is very um you know this happens a lot in development just because there's so much to learn right you come into a new company and there's no way you know everything there's no way you're on top of the latest technologies right so it's it's normal to feel this way right it's normal to see other people just clicking around and coding and doing amazing things and you're like i don't even know what you're talking about right it's super normal to feel this way right so um but we have to understand that if you are in this position as a manager is because somebody you're probably your manager or somebody hired the company saw amazing traits that you have they saw your potential and maybe you're not the best manager today but you will eventually be able to be one if you continue growing if you do a good job if you're focused enough to get there right and yes you don't know everything today but the important thing is you don't have to you don't have to know everything you do you don't have to get everything perfect from day one and we'll talk about this a little bit more in in you know in the next coming slides i love this quote from uh laurie her her twitter handle is lori on tech so impostor syndrome is the cognitive dissonance to believe that everybody in the room is significantly smarter than you yet they're not smart enough to figure out that you the one that's not smart have conned them into thinking you're smart when you read it like that when you when you understand the concept like that you're like yeah this doesn't make any sense right if all the people around me are smarter or smarter than i am you know they're going to figure out if i'm counting them right if if i'm not app for this position but since i'm here and somebody told me hey you you know you are a manager now you are a team lead that means that people that are smart you know figured you could do this so you know you you have to trust them right you definitely have to trust them that that's the case um since we're on the on the topic of imposter syndrome i always like to talk about some of the mistakes i've made in the past well i say in the past i mean if by the past i mean this morning then yes this morning even as a as a senior um you know as a seasoned manager we all make mistakes and i think that's one of the most important lessons that you need to learn that no one is expecting you or no one should be expecting you to be perfect right this is a new position this is a new job uh handling and managing and leading people is hard um so you're you're gonna make mistakes and that's okay right it should be okay so you know mistakes that i've made in the past um saying yes to everyone and everything you you are thrusted into this position of manager and you now are getting requests that you weren't getting before people are pinging you left and right to help them solve everything um you know even you know weird requests that you don't you didn't even know happened in the past right um so an error is saying yes to everyone or everything thinking that since you are in this position you now have to right and that's not the case we we which leads me to the second point you know not delegating or thinking i have to be the one that does everything delegating delegating is hard but it is key to being a good manager because you cannot be a good manager to your developers or to wherever you're leading if you are crazy busy doing everything right also people will feel that you don't trust them if you are again crazy busy doing everything you need to be able to tell people in a in a kind and a in an inspiring way i need you to help me with this i need you to do this and also you know going back to the the first point it's okay to say no sometimes you know if you don't say no people will continue to ask everything we'll continue to put meetings at all times i i worked at an agency a long long time ago that when i was promoted to the head of development one of the project managers would put meetings at 11 o'clock at night and yes it was a crazy agency and yes that's not normal but um they would put meetings at 11 o'clock at night and i thought that since i was just you know i was the manager of the department i had to go to them so i would have meetings at 11 o'clock at night and yes this sounds crazy but you know each situation is different and i just felt compelled i had to right and obviously you know with experience you you know you see that you don't have to you can say no and you can try to make things better right and maybe not have meetings at 11 o'clock at night because that's just crazy right um another of the mistakes that i've made is not being patient when you become a manager you have this whole idea in your head of what you want your team to be what you want your department to be and turns out that as the higher you go the slower some of those changes uh have to be you can't you know we we had a situation integrity where at some point we had a manager that wanted to change the uh you know the stack that we used and do something that was closer to what he was used to and he just did that from one day to the other and obviously you know that created a lot of hassle because the developers didn't know the stack you know we we weren't going to learn how to do things from one day to the other and you know people got an anxiety that thought they were getting fired because they weren't they didn't know about this as that stack they didn't know about this technology right so you know as a manager you want to do well you want to implement changes but they're not going to be as quick as you think they're going to be that's that's the god's honest truth another mistake that i've made is hiring or promoting the wrong people there's a saying that says you know skills can be learned but you know personality is harder like people are who they are right so with time i've learned that it's better to hire somebody that seems to be a good cultural fit somebody that seems to that won't come in and disrupt the group that you have um but maybe isn't the strongest coder technically wise because you can teach that you can you can make him better you can have sessions and you can you can learn from the rest of the team right and you can um have somebody be his mentor and so you're actually you know uh doing through two things at once because you're making this developer better and you're also uh the met the person that's mentoring is also you know getting his first experiences and meeting people as well so it's better to promote or hire somebody that is a good cultural fit than somebody that's an amazing coder but it's just going to create more issues or issues to your team and lastly you know it seems uh logical but it happens i sometimes forget to breathe and it feels weird but you want to do so much and you know there's this is stress and everybody wants things to be done and you have clients and stakeholders and managers and every the other departments uh wanting things from you breathe breathe uh thankfully for the most part i would assume no one here is a heart surgeon or or some sort of thing where if they slow down a bit no one dies like at the end of the day for the most part we're creating websites we're creating apps right it's not worth you know losing your life to stress about it's not worth you know being so stressed out that you can't even sleep that you can't even eat how and that those are some of the situations that haven't occurred to me personally but that i've heard other managers being so stressed out about their team and their projects and their work that they can't even sleep and you know that's not the that's not what we should be striving for right so brief even if things seem like you're overwhelmed and there's just so many things breathing is a good thing to remember to do um one of the things that comes with being a manager is having access to more information that you did before you were a manager right when you were such a just a developer right so this additional information gives you more insight into the day-to-day operations of your agency of your company of other departments of other things make sure you use this information correctly right make sure you when if at some moment you would have solved an issue just thinking you know having the information that you had in hand as a developer now that you're in a manager you might understand why other departments do things right you might empathize which is something we're going to talk about uh when uh you know another manager makes a decision that you don't agree with right don't lose sight of this bigger picture it's this additional information can only make you a better manager and additional information can help your team uh do things better right so empathy i want to stop for a second right here and ask you guys what do you think empathy is right because i think that's the the hardest part if you if you guys want to answer in the chat i'd appreciate it um what is empathy right i think the the hardest part about being a manager is not the added responsibility it's not you know um i don't know longer working out i don't know it's it's managing of people right because every there's a saying that says every brain every head is a different world right so how i see things are is usually not the same way that other people yep that other people see things right there is um there is a yep so amy june understanding other's point of view bernardo says putting yourself on someone else's shoes though that is great that's exactly it we as managers have to empathize a lot with our team and with everybody in the department uh but especially our team because when you are trying to understand why people are reacting one way or another or why they're doing this or that you know you might think well that's just crazy i would never do that yes you would never do that but you need to put yourself in that person's shoes right and try to understand before getting mad or before you know um thinking oh this person doesn't work or whatever it's like wait you know try to see it from their perspective as a manager empathy is a very powerful tool that you need to have in order to you know basically do anything with your team like you need and it's going to help you promote happiness and empowerment between your developers between your team empathizing is one of the greatest tools a manager can do because it'll make the developer feel seen it'll make them like oh you know my manager understands me he understands why i make a and b solution right and it also will help a lot with conflict resolution there's a statistic that says the employees in the united states spend approximately 2.8 hours each week involved in conflict that's that's almost half a day a week in some sort of a conflict that you as their managers are now in charge of finding a resolution right and hopefully those 2.8 2.8 hours aren't in conflict with you as their manager right they're in conflict with other departments or the developers and now you know it's your job to solve these type of conflicts right they can be very you know superficial you know somebody spoke to me weird or i don't get that person's vibe or they could have like really you know intrinsic um ramifications into that person's happiness that person's uh you know um idea of what their job should be you know and and empathizing with your developers is the way to start that conflict resolution um trust you know the the way to empathize with people is to understand what they're feeling and the only way to understand what they're feeling is to make sure people trust you right there's a weird or funny phenomenon that happens when you are made a manager of people that just you know a couple days ago were your peers because if you know and everybody knows that we we treat peers differently right if you um you know we joke about different things maybe we we are more honest about different things with your peers right and these developers might find it weird that just a second ago you know you were that person and now you're my manager so now my relationship with you has to change but it doesn't have to right it doesn't have to you know maybe from a professional point of view it can't but from a personal point of view you're still the same person right um another thing that happens is you know people might find a little of resentment because they feel that maybe they were they should have been made managers right they should have or maybe they feel they're better coders than you are so they have no idea why you were made tech leader or a manager right it's very important to gain people's trust in the the way of gaining people's trust is to be transparent this whole slide that we went over about admitting mistakes is one of those things if you as a manager shell out an image of saying that i am perfect and whatever i do is the correct thing to do you will lose people's trust in a heartbeat like people will see through that immediately and will say oh no you know this guy thinks he knows everything but he doesn't you know he keeps on making mistakes it'll be more apparent when you when you make a mistake and you don't own up to it right so by putting your team first and making sure they're first in the wins but taking the blame when something goes wrong you know people will trust you because you they'll know you won't be you won't uh you know throw them under the bus you'll you'll be able to be transparent right because another thing that you have to do is you have to fight for your team what does that mean i mean it's different in every company it's different enabling every agency but making sure that your team is is good you know making sure that people um have this i always tell my developers that there's two images of them as developers what i know about them as developers if they're good or bad and what the rest of the company knows of them right if if they think they're good developers if they think they take a lot of time you know you have to fight to make sure your team is seen in a great way right it's seen in a way where people want to work with them and you know are they're agreeable they're they're good to work with right in the same light you kind of need to shield them from what they don't need to know or see again you as a manager will know more information and you have to filter that information because if if they got bad feedback but you know it's not really actionable but it'll make them feel really bad you know you you can kind of decide if you're going to filter that a little bit if you're going to uh you know change that in a way where it is constructive criticism instead of just somebody cracking somebody else down you know shield them from what they don't need to see and make sure they they think they trust you and that you're transparent feedback feedback is super important as a manager you don't not only need to be giving feedback but you need to be receiving feedback it's the only way you know uh that if you're doing a good job or not you know there will be other ways you know if you know if your team does well if they're if their projects go well then that again that's a reflection on you uh but you know that direct feedback is important when you give it and when you receive it and feedback needs to be actionable like if you're telling me i'm doing something wrong please tell me how to fix that right you need to tell people this and they need to tell that to you and also fair right it's important that feedback be fair because you can't put in any you know if you have favoritism which also always happens right it's normal of human behavior um you know it's not fair that i that i give different feedback to different devs under the same situation right um they'll eventually find out and it's just going to cost you more issues so feedback giving and receiving should always be actionable and fair uh for this one-on-ones are crucial right different companies have different um you know ideas of what a one-on-one should be but in general there's this one moment during the week or every two weeks uh where you sit down with one of your developers or one of the persons the people you manage and you have you know ranging from 30 minutes to an hour conversation with them the first thing i would do is never move or cancel them unless you really have to um as a manager like you're really crazy busy and people put uh meetings and you have deadlines and you have work on your of your own right it's it's very easy to fall back into oh no i'll talk to them next week everything is fine right you don't know that you you might assume everything is fine but you don't know if your developer really needs to talk to you about something and this is the only chance you're gonna get because next week they'll forget and then it's just one of those things that start accumulating and then when you figure out it's like oh well we never talked about it right you need to plan um for them having an agenda is a great idea obviously having space for your developer to you know next 10 minutes what do you want to talk about is there anything bothering you and one of the things that i always uh tell my managers when they're doing their one-on-ones is to mix and personal questions like we want to know who this person is we don't work with robots right we don't we don't like i i care that my developers know how to code but i also care that they are feeling well right that they don't have any situation or if you know if i had a great developer that all of a sudden is dropping the ball on projects it's weird right that's that's not who he is and i'm just and i'm not just going to go off on him and say hey you know you're dropping balls and all your projects are going wrong because um without under trying to understand what's going on right so with getting to know these people and mixing personal questions i know oh my mom was like oh well okay that explains a lot right because now uh as a manager what can i do to help you do you need some time after do i need to take use off some projects so the the stress is a little bit less you know i i but i need to know this and one on ones are crucial to knowing this and getting to know your your people uh another factor that shouldn't never go away no matter what stage your developers are in or the people you manage is training and learning no one knows everything and i think that's an understatement and you know there's a thing where you can say well orlando that's obvious but people think tend to forget about that sometimes especially if they've been at the company for a long time right training and learning is great because it motivates people right it makes them feel like oh my company is investing in me right so any opportunity that you can as a manager to to get people to to train or learn new things is is the golden opportunity um it makes them better developers right which is you know what we all want but it also makes them better people which again is good because that makes you uh your job easier as a manager right um there's gonna be less conflicts they'll learn how to you know mediate and and work out conflicts on their own you know there's a bunch of things so training and learning is something that you should never ever ever um you know stop doing um another thing that is really really important and it's one of the things managers struggle most at the beginning is finding time for yourself it is so so important when i've seen it when my when we promote somebody a manager you know they are overwhelmed with the amount of things they are now in charge like they have to manage five or six developers they have to uh they're now in charge of certain initiatives they have project managers coming to them left and right with problems from their developers um they're they now know that they're you know they have a higher level overview of some projects that are in trouble so they want to participate in these projects and try to make sure they go well but at the end of the day you know most managers also have their work to do and you need to carve out time if you let people control your schedule you are doomed to have really you know sucky work days is the best way i could describe it um you know i i have this thing where uh you know it used to happen to me a lot where people would put meetings and there would be like 30 minutes times in between and i don't really like that because in those 30 minutes i can't really get anything done code wise like i can start to kind of you know wrap my head around the problem and when i'm actually focusing oh next meeting you know so i try to group meetings together so i can have you know all my meetings in the morning and then you know me time in the afternoon so i can actually code or you know not everybody has their own same system but the important thing is you need to work you need to have time for yourself to do your own things and everybody needs to understand that that it's fine that it's okay to have and want this time like you need as even as a manager even as in my position as a director i like to do freelance work uh outside so i never forget how to code because if you stop coding and you're just the manager pretty soon you know your your your skills as a coder are going to start falling behind and we all know that you know there's something new being invented every day there's some new framework there's some new method of doing something so it's important for you to keep coding and keep learning right that's even for your own satisfaction your own knowledge and you know it's super important for managers to never stop that and lastly what i need you guys to understand that it's never perfect right it's never perfect there will always be things that you can do better there will always be things that that you guys can can grow on and even when you know when you feel that you have had like a terrible day and everything went wrong and you just didn't do your work correctly tomorrow's another day right tomorrow is another opportunity to get started on something new to do something better and as long as you're moving forward even if it's in baby steps that's still forward progress right and that's what you want that's what you want of yourself that's what you want of your deaths if you're patient enough you know they will get better in certain things the only thing you really want them to see is forward progress even if it's little by little so you know this is a a quick overview on some of the challenges that are faced by by managers um i would love to take any questions if you have any examples any stories that you would want to to talk about i'm more than happy to talk about um while you guys type i'm just going to tell you a quick story i had about a situation that happened this week um we at toyota are recently implementing the position that is called technique uh tech lead in toyota terms is a developer that is gone the project from beginning to end right [Music] there is a we didn't used to do this long you know a couple years ago developers would be put on projects once the design was completely done and finalized and approved uh by you know the client so we didn't have a say into you know the design we didn't like if there were red flags it was way too late because you know the client had already signed off on the design no one won no one understood the importance of having a developer in the project from the beginning now we you know we've instituted that change and we have this role of a tech lead that is on the project from the very beginning even from selling it all the way to the end so while the project is in discovery while it's in you know doing the content audits and the technical audits all that is on the tech lead now um one of the uh project managers hasn't been really able to to change you know or to accept this change right and isn't uh pulling in this tech lead developer during all the times that they need to be pulled in right so they the tech lead came to me because um this person felt really bad that she was dropping the ball on the project but it was because she didn't have visibility into what was going on right um so you know one of the first things i did was talk to the project manager and try to empathize with them right i didn't go directly and say hey you know why aren't you doing this you know you have to do this right i'm trying to understand what's going on on through their head and trying to understand like why aren't you roping in your tech lead um so talking it turns out that this tech lead is primarily a front-end developer and the project manager thought that since uh this person was a friend developer that maybe she this person was wouldn't wasn't going to have enough insight to help with the tech audit and all those other things but you know she is like this this technique has the the knowledge right so at the end of the day what was a big conflict because uh they started you know being a little bit passive aggressive on on the slack channel like hey you didn't you didn't tell me about this and the other one's like yeah you did you don't know about this you know all these types of of conflict and and issues um i set them in the same zoom room and we got to talking and the project manager discovered that yeah it's not because you know of you as a person it's just i didn't think you knew about these things and then i got the tech lead to understand that it wasn't personal right there was just miscommunication and now they're working correctly in a project so those are examples of you know everyday examples of what you're going to have to do uh of trying to solve conflicts and trying to make sure people do their best job um by by you know just talking and empathizing and not you know not getting mad and not going against the project manager not going against the tech lead and say well you know it's your job you have to make sure you do it and you have to figure out a way right being the bridge in this discussion is an inherent part of being a manager books yes books there's there's a an author called i don't know how to pronounce her last name i think it's sarah drastner uh yeah it's sarah drastic she has an upcoming book she has a i follow her on twitter a lot um and she has an uh a book called engineering management for the rest of us um the book i'm gonna put the link right here um i mean she is great she talks a lot she's a um he has you know her blog has a lot of topics regarding engineering management um and you know i don't know it's just she she's so coherent and she's empathizes so much with with people that all her blogs are very much aligned to the views i have so that book is almost coming out it looks like a beautiful book like the the illustration on it is amazing and a lot some of the chapters are available in her blog so you guys can take a a look at her blog and and if you like what the chapters say then once once the book comes out that'll be a great book um for learning um engineering management uh what's your recommendation if your customer directly reaches out to your developer instead of the lead sure this happens from time to time clients there are clients that are a lot are really hands-on um i think you know depending on how you want to approach the situation just or how your agency does things right because there are sops right um for example in in coyote normally clients do not talk to you know the the normal dev um a lot it's either the project managers or the tech leads i'm not saying it doesn't happen but you know that's what we try to strive for but when they do uh make sure you you reach out to the client and tell them that you know at least cc me on this or if you have a question feel free to come to me you know don't make it in a way where you're where the client feels they're getting yelled at for what they did um just in a way like hey these are the rules and this is how we how we work if you want to have this communication with the developer and you as a as a lead uh trust as developer to do that then by all means yeah sure you know just make sure you're cc'd on it so things aren't happening without you knowing and then also talk to the developer and tell them you know i'm not doing this because i don't trust you right i'm doing this because this is my job and i want to make sure you're supported and maybe the client is going to ask a question that you don't know so i'll be there to back you up right make sure the developer doesn't feel like you're you know pulling the wins out of their sales by by by by you know reaching out and telling the client hey you need to talk to me right make sure they don't feel bad about it i think we're well we're almost that time any other questions examples stories um that you guys want to talk about i know we've all had you know bad managers and good managers so take a lot of your life experiences be the manager you wish you had at different times in your career and just by keeping that in your brain it'll help you make the right decisions in in a ton of situations cool so if we don't have any other questions or um thank you thank you um i don't know if i'm pronouncing your your name right am that but uh thank you thank you for for the comment um so uh again um i'm going to leave well my information is there if you guys want to reach out in linkedin you guys want to reach out on twitter i'm not really that social but if you guys reach out um i'll be more than happy to respond about any specific situation you guys have um yes i can definitely share the slide deck i will wonder if i can do that right now [Music] let's see um let me stop oh before we do go uh i'll i'll put the link in a second um [Music] uh just wanted to say thank you and what's coming up next uh amy june i don't know if you want to talk about this or should i i can see um so up next is a little bit of a break so walk around do some networking get yourself something to drink and then at the top of the hour we're going to have a raffle um no at the top of the hour we're going to do lightning talks and lightning talks are super fun you have something you want to say you have something you want to advertise you want to give a shout out you have a little technical thing a little non-technical thing you get in line you talk for five minutes we cart you off and the next person comes up and then directly after the lightning talks we'll do a raffle where we're giving away some drupalized me stuff and some jetbrains products um and then we'll take a break and then if you are local in asheville tonight they do have a party at highland brewery if you are online and want to hang out we've also created a virtual happy hour at 6 30 and if you go to the website on the social tab there'll be a zoom link there and we invited some external people outside of asheville too like we have a channel in um drupal slack called uh drupal happy hour i think is what it is and when whenever we have a meetup after a camp we post in there so we get all sorts of different people coming in from that so yeah um and then oh also if you're in person um there's a hike tomorrow to catawba falls and that's information's on the website as well and i think that's a spectacular community activity because you can bring your loved ones too so thank you rolanda for a great talk thank you guys it's been an honor to present in asheville and hope um you know if we do it um live or and not not virtual uh we i can make it next year and we can meet up um so thank you guys again for your attention if you have any questions any doubts any things you want to talk about just feel free to reach out

Channel: Drupal Asheville

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Id: dz-hQNdqWtc

Length: 46min 2sec (2762 seconds)

Published: Sun Jul 18 2021