Grab Your Rabbit - Sky's voice, Copilot+ Surface devices, Car Thing's discontinuation

it's time for twit This Week in Tech Christina Warren's here Alex Wilhelm West fogner we have some great stuff to talk about a lot of AI in the news Scarlet Johansson a little mad at open AI uh icq says bye-bye Microsoft announces AI PCS that can help you play Minecraft plus that rabbit R1 turns out not so great it's all coming up next on twit podcasts you love from people you trust this is [Music] Twi this is TWiT This Week in Tech episode 981 recorded Sunday May 26th 2024 grab your [Music] [Applause] rabbit it's time for twit this week at Tech the show we get together with some of my favorite people to talk about tech honestly that's the only Criterion these days it's got to be people I want to talk about tech with like the wonderful Wesley Faulkner who works for someone we can't talk about but he is on the Mastadon at Wesley 83 and is super smart and now that you're going a little gray we think you're even smarter that's the key thank you I used to work with a host at tech TV who did not have gray hair jet black hair he died his Temple's Grace so people would trust him more this just means I was made on a lab Bol that I have removed yeah it does look like a lightning bolt I love it anyway great to have you on uh Wesley also with us in her world of blur Christina Warren from from Microsoft uh actually from GitHub from GitHub there is a distinction is there there is a distinction okay yes you don't health insurance ah well that's a big distinction is it good I I think so I mean I I I pref I prefer the the GitHub health plan if I'm being there you go honest yeah you used to work for Microsoft at Channel 9 right yeah that's right yeah so good you you landed well in your little hop you've also been very busy I think this week we'll talk about that yes lots of AI in the news huge amount of AI in the news and honestly uh when I got in a big fight with Ed zitron on on Wednesday on this weekend in Google a literal a literal shouting match you never want to get in a shouting match with a Brit cuz they could tear you to shreds with their with their language ability right um but he was uh he was saying well there's no good use for AI and the first thing I pointed to was co-pilot on GitHub which is amazing and really useful so one of the first very really good uses of llms I think in the public kidub Copa how how old is that it's a couple years old now right yeah okay so it officially became publicly available two years ago but we it was announced three years ago so I've been using it for three years so it's it's two years old but it's three years old like there it's been in various levels of of um people have had VAR levels of access to it for a little over three years it's very good and I like it sorry Ed also with us my good friend we had to dig him up because he's been ins sconed in childlike things he lives in my childhood home Mr Alex Wilhelm Alex Alex you're no longer at the tech crunch no no my second stint at uh the home publication has come to an end and I'm trying some new stuff so you know it's been a week so not a lot to report yet this is exciting though you're doing the independent thing that's yeah yeah so I'm doing well thank you golf CL golf clap for you it's really different to say you're going to go off and write for yourself and then like the first day you show up and there's no one else there and then you have like no support and you're like oh man turns out working for a big Corporation did have some advantages um we going to we're going to get a group of people to go right now to cautious optimism. newws And subscribe that's all there is to it that I mean that that would make my day but I I will say this by the way notice that thing subscribed because I am subscribing to it so there if the website is ugly it's because I'm not a designer but I'll work on that that's yeah well I'll get that how is it ugly I mean it looks like every other substack that's the problem oh it looks like the generic WordPress template it looks like I didn't try because I didn't but everybody else's sub looks like this too yeah that's everyone's cyber truck looks the same so they all look good no they look bad they all look bad that's true uh reporting and commentary it says here on startups technology and the stock market modestly upbeat I like that yeah the whole the whole stick is I'm trying to find a little bit of space between uh very important and critical coverage of big tech companies and very overly optimistic early stage coverage of companies like rabbit and so it's cautiously optimistic it's slightly upbeat is the uh is the idea cautious optimism. newws you're also working with our good friend Jason calacanis on this we startups yes I am doing that part time couple shows a week and that is uh paying my half of our Nanny well I experiment with newsletters and I am uh grateful to have kind of two things going on at once and yeah I'm just I I you know I needed to try something new I've been at tech runch for another half decade um and I love everyone there but you know sometimes you just got to shake it off and turn L it's the right thing to do uh I think it's we know know so many people who worked for Publications who either because they decided to or because they had no choice have decided to go solo and I think it's the right thing to do if you have a voice and you have and you're smart and you can and you can write uh I think it's a great idea I think it's a very good ide wish you the best well if if that's the case I'm doomed so no no no no no come on no false humility cautious optimism. news everybody go subscribe right now right now uh all right now let's talk ah what what a week we had last week was crazy with open ai's uh chat gbd 40 which sounded remarkably like Rashida Jones uh I don't know if you noticed did you notice it sounds just like rashita Jones did you notice that yeah I mean I it's funny because I first got I first thought scarjo and then one of my co-workers said rashita Jones and I was like I can hear that too so yeah well Scarlett Johansson thinks it's her um I that's who I thought it was at first and then a CO coworker said reita Jones and I was like actually the same voice the problem that's the problem they have the same voice they sound exactly the same I started uh playing with chat GPT when it had a voice months ago and I said scarjo right from the beginning and that's why I liked it because I want to talk to Scarlet Johansson of course uh it turns out Sam alman's a big fan of the movie Her Scarlet Johansson was the voice of the AI in her the AI that uh uh walking Phoenix falls in love with and gets his heart broken by it's a preent movie you should all watch it um and it turns out that in fact open aai did approach Scarlett Johansson not once but twice asking to use her voice and she said no but this is what's kind of interesting to me Washington Post I guess uh open AI talked to Washington Post and showed them the records and even introduced them to the actress who did the voice Sky which is the default voice for uh D GPT 40 and apparently even before Altman talked Jo Hansson they had this woman recorded uh her agent uh showed the receipts uh to uh The Washington Post who says the actress's natural voice sounds iCal to the AI generated Sky voice based on brief recordings of her initial voice test reviewed by the post the agent said the name sky was chosen to Signal a cool Airy Pleasant [Music] sound Scarlet Johansson said no you copied me and I know it because you came to me twice and I said no both times and you still went ahead with it so here's the question given that Sky sounds a lot like Rashida Jones as well and apparently some third unnamed actress she rightly so doesn't want her name revealed uh in a statement from the Sky actress this is Again The Washington Post provided by her agent she wrote that at times the backlash feels personal being that it's just my natural voice and I've never been compared to her Scarlet handsome by the people who know me closely however said she said she was well informed about what being a voice for chat GPT would entail while that was unknown and conly kind of scary territory for me she said as a conventional voiceover actor it is an inevitable step toward the way of the future so now what do you do open AI has paused the use of the sky voice much to my sadness because I liked it uh and I mean so there is some there is some case law in this B Midler and Tom whites both have sued because their voices were impersonated on advertisements in both cases they were asked said no and then the companies hired voice actors to sound like them so there you do have publicity rights on your voice the courts have ruled but I voices aren't that unique I'm very curious go ahead Alex sorry no I I broke my audio set up while I was trying to jump in there my bad anyways the thing that I'm curious about is when open AI was approaching this unnamed actress what were they looking for because it does seem not say Scarlet Johansson at any time that's because they're not stupid yeah that person's Talent yeah but if it's her real voice if she's not doing an impression but that's her real voice she owns that voice as much as Scarlett Johansson someone someone chose her someone chose her for a reason and the reason is because it sounds close to what they wanted and what they wanted I mean maybe uh it's one of those things where like maybe they're not guilty for for in this case but they're guilty of something I don't think that they are 100% clean on this we know who the someone is because it turns out Alman was on his World Tour and not involved Mera Mora the chief technology officer and the woman who was temporarily the uh open AI CEO when that when Alman was temporarily fired was the sole decision maker um they used a director Joanne Jang who leads open AI Model Behavior for open AI she said the company selected actors who are eager to work on an AI product she played actors the s a sample AI version of their voice to demonstrate how realistic their technology would sound she also gave them an out if they're uncomfortable she worked with a film director hired by open AI I'm sure not Spike Jones to help develop to help uh develop the Technology's personality for instance this is all from the Washington Post if a user asked will you be my girlfriend Jang wanted the AI tool to respond with clear boundaries but also let them down easy the director came up with a response when it comes to can I can I do this like SC Johansson or will I get sued do it I've always I think you your no no your yours was parody yeah that's right because Rich Little never got sued by by Richard Nixon or anybody when it comes to matters of the heart consider me a cheerleader not a participant so Christina where do you come down on this okay so first of the disclosure that uh the company uh that I work for and its parent company both have relationships with open AI all right disclosed the the the problem I have here is the Optics If you hired someone and and it's great that you went through this process and you said we want people who are gungho about Ai and it just happens that you know had a voice that could be confused with that of scarlet Johansson's or Rashida Jones or or any other kind of you know pleasant voice that we might associate with things fine um the itics of regardless of of who was involved with approaching an actress regardless of that timeline the fact that you approached Scarlet Johansson twice and tried to get her on board um and also the the fact that you know tweets such as her were were done and and yeah Sam Alman the day after 40 tweeted one word her right this that's kind of an mission of guilt isn't it well I mean look it's a problem optically right and so I don't know I'm not a lawyer I don't know how this comes down legally I definitely think it looks bad optically right now now there's there's there's a there's a part of me that says uh you know what they what they should have done is just hired Samantha Morton um and and that's a joke because the original voice of Siri voice right no no no no no no the actress Samantha Morton was originally the voice of Samantha and her and it was recast after the film was shot with Scarlet Johansson because Spike Jes liked Scarlet Johansson's voice better and not at all because Scarlet Johansson was also the the the sub tie-in for Sophia Copa and Loston translation her divorce film about Spike Jones and and her was Spike Jones's about we have a pop culture wizard here now I've got to get this straight what so wait a minute Lost in Translation was Sophia cop's divorce film about Spike Jon about breaking up with the director Spike Jones who then directed her and of course Scarlet joh was inre lost to transation transation correct so was this a shot at Sophia Copa I honestly she Sophia Copa thinks of it that way she she's never watched her because she's like why do I want to watch Rooney Mara play me I was there um wow so uh I I I don't know that that that's that's great info by the way thank you very much this is why we have film girl on the show holy not I was gonna say it's not all for the tech um uh actual the actual pop culture knowledge I'm glad your background is blurred you probably have one of those uh boards with with the red string going around the red strings wow no um no but but but but but but scar scarjo was the replacement voice so it would have been funny in was the original actress Samantha Morton I want to get some audio from Samantha Morton just to see what she sounds like wouldn't it be funny she was in um she's British so would be a British voice she was the she was a the the main um um what were they called the U precog in um uh Minority Report oh yes she was in the water yeah but she doesn't talk a lot in that movie no no but um so I I I just play a little Samantha I just just want to hear what her voice sounds like wow thank you just look looking at all your faces well oh uh thank you uh baa I mean for me this is you know it would really been great if they had used her for Sky it would have then everything would have come full circle your strings honestly it would completely that's what I'm saying it would have been very funny the whole thing would have been great um it to me if I were trying to do something if and if I were not willing to to pay scholar Johansson the amount of money that she would have required because I have to think that's really what it came down to right or what what if they went to her out of courtesy and they said look we know this is going to it's not her voice but it sounds like like her so let's just add a courtesy offer to pay her and she said no but they still say but it's not her voice so we don't have to pay her we're just doing this out courtesy yeah but then why did you approach right like like to be nice yeah but then you know it sounds enough I don't know I feel like wait to to be nice Leo honey let's stop right there right no one no one involved and this is nice oh girl baby girl like I you know I've met Sam Alman I've been in the tech world not a nice man you mean no actually Sam was lovely when I met him um but I I don't think that people who end up running companies worth tens and hundreds of billions of dollars get there by having very rounded elbows that don't cause bruises or Cuts right so really it's a PR what you're saying Christina is a PR issue regardless of the legal issue yeah Scarlet Joe if it had been Roseanne Bar or rosie odonnell no one would have like sure her we're pretending it's her but Scarlett Johansson everybody loves Scarlett Johansson you don't want to make enemies not just of her but of her fan base well totally and I mean I mean I think she also has to probably know her worth a little bit I don't know what they offer her she's also the woman who took on Disney I was going to say this is someone who who successfully took on Disney um and and frankly this is why I'm like okay well how much do you offer to pay her because if you offered her between $250 and $500 million which is what I think that's what I think it would cost no if I'm being completely candid yes if if your scholar Johansson if you were going to license your voice were even willing to do it you're right it would be a huge amount of money it would have to be and I don't think they'd be willing to do that yes because think about it if you're going to give your voice up in perpetuity to one of these things and and you and your voice is known because of this film you were in as being kind of this AI thing right and and you're going to be kind of the the the voice that the face so to speak of this company yeah your schol Johansson I will do it for one 1000th of the money I will do it for 250k and and and thing is Alex and the thing is Alex no one wants your voice oh it hurts that's the thing that's the thing right so I if if you get a sound alike and then the case law is there with B Midler and and with other artists it becomes complicated I think that they could have a very good argument had they not approached her to say we just found this person right you know we directed it this is what it sounds like if people want to you know and and they could even use the fact that plenty of us could hear two different distinct actress's voices right saying no no it's just you know white women sound alike which Fair um I think that but but I think it looks bad when you when you approach the actress and I think it's another example of open AI going through an unnecessarily negative press cycle like this feels like them tripping over their shoelaces again and again and again and again again and again and again because they're they they just play slightly too fast and loose and I I I pay for you know chat GPT Pro my dad loves it I use it um I don't code much so I don't use GitHub co-pilot but I think this stuff is awesome and so it's a bummer that the company that's doing so much and breaking so much ground is making the entire world of AI appear to be slightly shadier than I think it needs to be I think it's net negative for the industry and I can kind of see why Sam Alman everywhere he goes kind of gets in trouble with everyone he works with because he does loose he's the U move fast to break things kind of guy I want to say something it's a little bit of a left turn but um one of the things that I'm concerned about and I think Christina alluded to this when she said Alex no one wants your voice one thing out of all of this that no one's talking about is that the demo for 40 was primarily voice input there was some Camera Action there but it was mostly it they were trying to make her weren't day not only that no no no the they what they want is the people to interact with their voice and if you are familiar with their opt out models not their optin for the data that you put in they could be farming everyone's voice now oh this is why we want Scarlet to win this isn't it yeah I mean no there's not people talking about this but like if you're if the if primary input is voice input and they're capturing all this data they're capturing all of the samples of everyone's voice oh um in response to how they're interacting with open AI um the the their chatbot and so of course they can say okay sorry let's take Sky out but they could be replacing it with multiple different options of voices maybe giving an option to use your own voice and they could be not paying anything for that yeah so um I don't think anyone's talking about why why do you think the demo was mostly uh interacting using voice it only makes sense if it's that way also why are companies using weird messed up like futuristic names like sky is obviously from Skynet that's not a future we want and all of these companies are using the types of like paler come on I mean there are companies that are just basically saying the quiet part out loud that we're evil the Incorporated is here to help W the other voices I can choose from are here's Ember hey I'm ready to hit the ground running so if there's anything you'd like me to focus on first just let me know uh who do you kill first here's Cove I just want to share how thrilled I am to work with you and I can't wait to get started here's Juniper hey there I've got a really great feeling about us teaming up how can I jump it's great to meet you how's your day going I'm really looking forward to working on some cool together I guess they didn't want to give them human names right so they're all kind of nature names um but they are but I mean what this is a very personal thing when you're talking to chat gbd4 you're having it's a chat thing you're talking to somebody often the answers are stupid and wrong by the way [Music] um but I wanted frankly I wanted Sky yeah no it was the best voice this is this is the problem I don't like these other voices yeah I'd like you Christina how much would you uh cost significantly less significantly less than scol Hansson not a quarter probably absolutely not but but but I'm not scar Johansen I have a I'm not the highest grossing actress in box office history so you know I really yeah she is yeah because of Marvel oh well way it still counts yeah it does it it does still count yeah I know she's like yeah I think I think Robert Downey Jr is number one and she's like for actresses yeah wow wow well open AI can't keep its feet out of its mouth and I think we'll be doing this segment again in six months and we'll keep doing this until either Skynet shows up to Wes's point or uh they manag to find a better way to handle crisis CS do you think that their attitude is look we have to move fast and break things if we're going to achieve AGI and we can't let ourselves be held back by Petty concerns this is this is such a sideshow is an unnecessary PR M we are not talking about the technology itself we are not talking about the improvements thereof if we're getting closer to AGI we are talking about the person who scarra replaced in a prior movie made by Spike Jones who I don't if should really know who that is but apparently film guy and we're going back to 2013 no Leo I don't I don't think so I it's unforced Error it's not necessary exactly I but no news is bad news in this case because we are inundated with AI news all the time and this is the thing that hits mainstream that you know expands beyond the tech press that people are going to say what is this thing and what voice now you can do what with chat foro and I think this is actually a net positive because they didn't pay anything for this and they're getting a lot of press saying how awesome this is well and furthermore one of the things before this 40 announcement there were two speculative ideas about what they might announce one is a search engine which obviously Google's shaking it its boots but the other was uh AGI was chat gbd 5.0 and maybe they don't mind a little distraction because I don't think AGI is around the corn Elon Musk thinks it's next year um who was it that said it's uh 10 years off then there are people like Ed zitan who think it'll never happen maybe they don't want people to be talking about that they'd prefer them talking about Scarlett Johansson because it is good you're right Alex they're getting attention not you know or is but yeah who's hearing this and saying like no I I I never going to use it yeah ex makes you want to try it this is only good for them okay that's a more cynical take than I than I had in my head which is probably why it's more correct than the one that I had I'm even more cynical I think they're intentionally distracting people because they don't have chat gbd 5 and they've been promising it and that it's a why not why don't they have that yet I mean to me like anything the first 98% are e just like self-driving cars the first 98% no problem the last 2% the part that humans find easiest is the part machines find the hardest and uh and that's maybe never but is gp5 going to be AGI I thought gp5 was just going to be like gp4 but as usual bigger better with more data right can they they've R kind of run out of data I would say that demo that they did actually shows me that they're actually moving in the wrong direction uh I I guess what didn't you like about the demo so there is um the the upt talk the the the way that they kind of the servant it felt like it was only targeting a certain demographic of people if you know what I mean um and also the when turn the camera on saying how am I dressed the the the the lack of objectivity in the way that they created uh foro felt very like very uh kind of myopic they didn't really it doesn't didn't feel expansive it felt like they're really D Dr dialing in deeper into a personal companion rather than a personal assistant and then even the um when it says how do do I feel excited or look excited um Studies have shown and I think they should know this as well you cannot tell anyone's emot by looking at them and then perpetuating that they can in that demo also show that they either are ignoring research or are just really only training it on themselves or their own specific demographic you can't read uh how people are feeling by looking at them I mean pseudo science yeah extremely cultural um like ever seen someone laugh when they're nervous right right or uh someone who smiles when they're like embarrassed I mean there's nevertheless uh if you're going to be a good poker player you have to have a you have to right well yeah you can hydro feelings Hydro tells and people if you're around people long enough you might be able to pick up on what some of their ticks are but it's not like a universal thing not Universal that's the problem because just because you can't make a lie detector really there that that's well no you can't I mean this is this is why this stuff is usually not admissible in courtrooms now that doesn't mean that they're not used by law enforcement like I they're are because I have insomnia and I'll frequently watch um uh people who are complete in my opinion um complete pseudo science and Crocs but like these these people who are paid lots of money um to be to work for law enforcement agencies as you know behavioral experts and and like oh I can pick up on people's body language and this and that and watch them like talk about you know people's um interrogations it's interesting right well and profiling is a little bit different but what I mean is that these are people who like are kind of like lip readers who are like oh no this is what person means like what this is what they're saying and this is how it goes and it's like no you can't really tell that right and you make a good point uh about Wesley about neurod Divergence is that not I mean right there you know everybody doesn't is act the same way um yeah and sometimes when uh especially people who are in front of cops like you look nervous why you look so nervous because you have a you're terrifi you have a gun my face why would I not be nous you're pery before the court that's why you you can't read someone's emotions and that's just it's it's not predictable enough to say like you can put it on a demo and like like say that this thing is somewhat accurate in which they're doing I have to say though I prefer Scarlett Johansson to the Chinese chat GPT which is called chat she PT there it's XI jingping XI jingping the president for life of China communist China has a large language model based on his political philosophy it's known this is a translation as Xi Jinping thought on socialism with Chinese characteristics for a new era this I do not want to chat with so I I have an interest in uh the Chinese government as a as an intellectual interest and I am familiar with with xingping thought I wanted to refresh myself because I knew we were going to talk about this yes um if you are curious what this Corpus of thought is it is the 10 affirmations the 14 commitments and the 13 achievements all of which are on Wikipedia if you want to go look them up oh my God sounds aw is it is not much is my impression of this it is a collection of things that have been kind of scraped together to appear to be a larger pile of things um but I can't imagine how boring a chat bot predicated on those things would be because I think could ask at something and it would just tell you why you're wrong it just doesn't you you said 10 was that a there's many there's the 10 affirmations and the 14 commitments like 10 men 10 square oh don't say that oh I'm not can't say that I'm not nearly that Woody this was just my Panic hands since I was trying to read on a different screen while trying to also have good eye engagement for the camera we made Alex moved to a different camera you want to go back to the other camera go right ahead I I am not going to change camera's mid shoot that is a recipe to have no camera at all in the middle of this well you know where this comes from and you will know this is a student of of Chinese communist government ma zong's the the Little Red Book which was the uh the the aphorisms of Chairman Mao which were everywhere in China in the 60s and 70s and XI jingping just wants parody with that he you know he wants to have that the thoughts of XI jingping which include ensuring Communist Party of China leadership over all forms of work in China the Chinese Communist Party should take a people Centric approach for the public interest the continuation of comprehensive deepening of reforms this is he's this is worse than McKenzie this is this is uh yeah this is thank you for that flag do not want Ani yeah I do not although a McKenzie GPT might be worth some money might be make might some money no it'll cost you money yes but whoever makes it will make money is what I'm saying but no matter what question you ask the McKenzie it's going to bill you it's going to bill you and then say you should F some people yeah exactly layoff lays the key is one thing about the good thing about I think it's gonna be wildly successful I know we're joking because uh an AI that knows what the right answer is I mean if there's only one right answer in China there's only right easy to be right yeah yeah yeah all right let's take a little break we got a good panel we have more AI chat as well Alex Wilhelm is here on his first day of his new life today is the first day of the rest of your life uh cautious optimism. newws is his new newsletter and everybody who loves Alex and we all do should subscribe immediately so that he doesn't feel like he's typing into uh The Ether uh that's I'm so proud of you that's great Alex uh you know it's the right to do Christina Warren's also here she's senior developer Advocate at the GitHub love the GitHub she's also an expert in all things mass media and culture so from now on we ask her the questions when it comes down to Spike Jones uh and a guy who has no idea who Spike Jones oh no that was Alex I don't know Wesley do you know who Spike Jones is yes okay Wesley fauler hacker. uh well you know what if you're on a Macedon instance search for Wesley 83 w SLE y 83 and follow him uh we will be back with more with this wonderful panel in just a little bit our show today brought to you by expressvpn I can say with full confidence that there is no better VPN on the market first first of all because I use it so I know but I also know expressvpn does not log your activity online actually you should never use a VPN that cannot say categorically that they don't log your activity but lots of cheap or free vpns literally make money selling your data to advertisers not expressvpn in fact they went the extra mile they developed a technology called trusted server that runs their VPN server in Ram without the ability to write to a hard drive so it cannot store data and as soon as you disconnect it disappears as does every trace of your visit it's also fast so fast they use lightwe a VPN protocol they engineered again going the extra mile to make it faster so that you can use expressvpn to watch HD video which is one of the nice things about expressvpn you can be anywhere in the world at any time um a lot of times you know you start using a VPN you go this is too slow I don't want to use it not expressvpn it's always blazingly fast when we were in Mexico I used Express vpm to watch TV in the US cuz I couldn't watch it in Mexico there's just a lot of reasons why it's a good thing to have zero buffering HD quality video Etc it's also easy to use you can put it on your router if you want protect your whole house you can you can of course run the app on iOS Android Windows Mac Linux fire up the app tap one button you're connected don't need to be Tech savy even your kids or your grandparents can use it and give themselves extra safety CET The Verge many other Tech journals say expressvpn is the number one VPN in the world I couldn't agree more protect yourself with the VPN I use and you can trust trust use expressvpn.com twit right now you'll get an extra 3 months uh free on a one-year package that gives it makes it less than seven bucks a month you want to pay for a VPN you really do because if if you're not paying for it with your money you're paying for it with something else your privacy that's why expressvpn is the right way to go expressvpn.com twit they also invest you know rotate their IP addresses they invest in highp speeed lots of servers all over the world that's where your money goes it's a good it's really worth it expressvpn.com twit get three months free on a one-year package expressvpn.com twit we thank them so much for their support of This Week in Tech all right you had a big week this week I imagine Christina because this is uh Monday uh the surface event and then Tuesday build I bet you had a lot to do at build Microsoft's developer conference uh on Monday they showed off co-pilot plus PCS am I saying I'm saying it right it's not copot plus PCS it's copot plus PCS I think that's right I think that's right I was not at that event um that that I I was in um rehearsals for Microsoft build but I I think that's right yeah yeah the idea is besides having a co-pilot button these are PCS that have uh npus neural processing units are all the uh co-pilot plus PCS running Snapdragon X to my knowledge yes I think that it's possible that they might eventually have other designations that uh are broader than that but right now they're all on the S Dragon um X Elite platform yeah it was interesting Paul thrat and Richard Campbell were talking about this on Wednesday and windows weekly they said that intel was supposed to have a larger Presence at this surface event and was kind of Shed off at the last minute by Microsoft uh in theory they are Partners along with Qualcomm and AMD in practice we'll see the first uh the first ones of course are running the Snapdragon that's the Microsoft surfaces Acer Asus Dell HP and Lenovo all will make copilot plus PCS um I think they all shipped June 18th certainly Microsoft yeah that's I know I know that's at least when the service ones do I don't know about the others yeah yeah I think the Intel and AMD ones will come out later this year so that's why they probably weren't highlighted and I think the the line I think is they have to be 45 tops 40 tops in order to qualify 40 trillion operations per second is that a good measurement for npu I mean that's what everybody uses apple as well in fact their uh new iPads with the M4 are running 38 tops so these are a little bit faster than those uh it's one dimension because power draw is also very important and so even even though you're thinking about efficiency um the the other part that you need to um consider is expandability like of course the xpcs aren't going to be as as expandable as the AMD and Intel ones because they don't have a lot of that traditional architecture but uh you figure all that stuff in in terms of making your decision of it does feel like though Microsoft is some people even asked me are they making an apple like switch from Intel to Qualcomm I don't think they are or arm I don't think they are but they really are pushing these qualcom snapdragon Elites well I I don't think that they're doing it in the sense that they want they're going to be completely not no no and they never I I don't think even if they wanted to I don't think they could right um the the you know oil refineries and and nuclear power plants and other things out there in the world would would not allow them to do that uh but I think that they definitely one of the big things they're definitely pushing again um this is but but you know we hear that it's actually good this time is they really want developers to actually optimize their applications for arm which which has not happened so far like right that hasn't happened and and Qualcomm wants that Microsoft wants that um I'm sure that the oems who were trying to sell these these new um you know generation of PCS wants that so so but this is the marriage of Windows 11 new AI models especially smaller models at the edge slms right instead of llms small language models yeah yes petite language models miniature if you will tin petite petite um I think this is freaking awesome and I'm probably gonna buy one AG I'm not gonna lie what I want is private AI for me at the device level in my OS so that way it's not tacked on like what we have with like slack for example which is like slack with some AI on top right I want to start the OS and Hardware level and build up from there because okay I gotta say one of the features Microsoft announced at build was a modification to Powershell Powers shells always have had two kinds of uh paste you could paste as plain text or paste as formatted text they've replaced paste as text with paste with AI I don't know have you tried this yeah well this isn't power toys yeah this is power toys en power toys or power shell power tce Oh I thought it was power shell oh okay no no no if they did that power shell I think that like the power shell Enthusiast would freak out yeah that I freaked out when I when I heard it okay so I misunderstood it's power toys yes I don't know if you really want to paste with AI at any time but okay what is what are you P command shift the guy well no I think what it's doing is it's determining whether it should be as as plain Tex text or Rich Text based on your context oh it's not actually giving you a summary of where you're pasting that's okay oh okay the advanced paste feature can convert your clipboard content on the fly with the power of AI oh that's different okay right and this is the sort of thing because it's in power toys which is a great project by the way shout out to to Clint and that whole team because they're awesome I used to buy I used to get power toys every with every new version of Windows I was so glad with brought back I love you need to paste in your you need your open AI API key in order I was going to say that's what I was going to say yeah you need to bring your own open AI API key for that so it's and it's one of those things that if you don't want that feature you can turn it off but no the idea is that and frankly this is useful I think because I do run into this problem all the time where I'm like okay what is the shortcut and do I want it rich text or plain text or why can't I just press you know paste and have it determine it based on where I'm at and this is actually I think a good use of AI even if it's only like 95% accurate even if it's wrong sometimes if it's if it's right more often than it's wrong then that's one less thing that I have to think about so okay when you paste text with AI the text is analyzed and formatted I'm reading from Microsoft's own page based on the context of the text and the prompt provided to the open Ai call uh so it does you could have it summarized text take long text the clipboard and ask the AI to summarize it or translate or generate code or transform text or stylize text those last two was what we were talking about the last two is what I thought okay but the other ones that's that's not okay I have to say the Translate and even the COA that's interesting like if I have it on my clipboard German that would be wild yeah that would be cool actually uh all right I take it back now that I know it's not power shell it's power toys I I misread that uh all right I take it back that's that's actually kind of an interesting use of AI isn't it but that Qui that quibble aside I think the the the core idea of where Microsoft is taking their core PC unit if you will the direction of it is what I was hoping for yeah yes and that that's very exciting to me because I I really do think that when I go from my MacBook Pro to my iMac to my gaming PC all I do is just sit in in Chrome and then maybe Steam on the PC and it all feels very much the same here is a Computing experience that does actually feel rebuilt or at least they're moving towards that right to make it more intelligent and hopefully private for myself and that's just I that feels like the first step on a better Journey for personal Computing if they get it right it's early but I'm optimistic and excited by it I I also want to like highlight amd's acquisition of zyink which makes uh the ability to have custom accelerators so when you think about the M1 they I think they had an accelerator for um specific web code so that it could actually run faster than it could even on U native Le previously um and so with these this kind of migration to understanding with AI and all those accelerators AMD is actually really really in a good place to kind of make the Next Generation faster and faster and faster not necessarily from this the tops number from the AI piece but all the acceleration accelerators they can stack on top of each other to make sure that um that whatever you're running and however you're running it um they can kind of have a lot of different a between all of these different systems on that domain interesting yeah I think this this is uh I mean Saj Adella said particularly they are taking aim at um Apple's MacBooks and and it their AI capabilities uh Joanna Stern writes in the Wall Street Journal I tried Microsoft's new AI focused PCS Windows is exciting again all right I'm not sure I'm going to go that far that's I will say this the the new the new laptop the new 13in the service laptop it looks exactly like slightly beefier MacBook a no which is a great thing right so they've got this new blue color um Donna star car and I kept trying to steal one from the um the set at Microsoft building they were like you can't you can't even pretend to steal one of these things um at an event we were like but we want them they're like get it in June you'll get yours you'll get yours young lady don't worry sure they look great it has the ports that you want it was slightly thicker than like a a a MacBook Air but in a way I kind of preferred that I was like this is kind of like a wedge shaped MacBook Pro like it's exactly what I would want out of like a Windows Hardware device and Port wise it's much more like a MacBook Pro it has cuz the MacBook airs have basically you know correct useless USBC ports when you'd have to do dongles this has all of the other ports that you'd probably want including a type A yeah uhold my dongle mess from my M Pro um so here here's the thing we recently also saw the Apple event in which they showed off the brand new iPad Pro uh M4 and that to me is the the ultimate example of a race car engine attached to a moped and it is not the direction that I want to see things going in because it is brilliant engineering and then zero vision on the software side which is more important because the hardware should support the software and not the other way around what Microsoft is doing here to me puts it miles ahead of where the the the mac and iOS and iPad OS ecosystem are and that to me is kind of a gauntlet throwing moment so I'm hoping to dispers the teams of copertino to try some new stuff because my gosh they have run their old formula to its conclusion and been great but now it feels dated you can make a strong case that the iPad that you really want is a Surface Pro tablet right I mean it's a tablet that has you know all the things that the iPad doesn't it has a real operating system to start with I mean I yeah I think it depends on what you use it for right because there are still things that an iPad is going to do as an iPad better than a Surface Pro is right and what what would it do better okay so I I I will just say it when you put things in tablet mode on I don't know about the new ones but on kind of the existing devices you know there's a little bit more of of a lag to kind of get there and and to if I do just want to have pen input for instance I I think the iPad is better for for using things like procreate and art tools right like I do I think it's better um there might be some exceptions I don't know but there is something to be said if what you're using it for is primarily for a touch interface I do think the iPad is great but you're right if you are somebody who is really wanting to live between those two worlds and if you're primarily using your iPad connected to a keyboard and using you know kind of the their version of a mouse to try to do that yeah I think you're better off with a surface device or another like twoin one frankly don't forget that they added the function row to the keyboard for the iPad so I think they're trying to push people into tou interface well maybe they might be merging the OS what's really clear with the iPad Pro and I have the new one is it's a laptop it's a laptop price it's got an aluminum keyboard it's got It's a laptop price with a nerfed running a nerfed operating system running an operating system that's not intended to be for productivity no no and it's one of those things where like it is I'm probably going to get one and not because I need one I have an M2 iPad Pro because I'm going to give my M2 iPad Pro to my mom because and here hear me out on this I know it seems like an insane like justification and it is but only slightly the amount of money they will give me for my M2 iPad Pro is less than it would cost for me to buy a 256 gab iPad not iPad Air iPad with um with te that would cost more money than it would cost me to just give my mom like they like that that cost more than what they would pay me for my 18-month-old iPad Pro so I'm like well if you're going to give me so little on this tradein I might as well give this much better iPad to my mom and then find a way to self justify me buying a new toy I think on this show you don't have to qualify buying a new toy you can just do it and oh I know I can't I'm just saying show are you kidding so this is I have to say the OLED screen is really really nice but every time I try to use it as a as a anything but a you know kind of a Content consumption device I it's frustrating right yeah because Abomination the main reason I got it is I thought well I maybe I can do it uh use it as a photo editing tool and I have to say with touch and it has very good photo editing software available like capture one and a stuff and uh dark room is really excellent I I was able to do it that way so if all you're going to do is something like this or maybe Final Cut or logic and touch is fine and it's fine but there's so many things that I can't do with it it seems a lot to pay for a uh just a special purpose uh tool oh yeah you know yeah it's a it's a whole lot I like it a whole lot uh but it's yeah this was like $3,000 went all in um right that's what I'm saying we absurd if you think about it you're like okay like and again it'd be one thing like if I could run my regular Mac OS stuff and use it to use it do I really want to Mac OS on actually I wouldn't mind having a terminal I don't know okay right well I would like the option if I'm paying that much money for it I would like the option it would be cool if it was also a Mac Mini and so you could just plug it into an external and have it run as a Mac right that's what I'm saying right like like I like that option if I plug it into a to a you know um Studio display then it's giving me that option okay now now you're in this mode this isn't the default mode this isn't the the thing we're forcing down anybody you might even have to go through aonami code thing to even enable it fine you know like just type in Samsung decks and then right exactly uh yeah I mean I you know there's no way to honestly justify it it's a absolute luxury item um and so it's hard to recommend it to anybody I think think honestly for a lot of people the copilot plus uh PC Surface is probably a good choice well plus they they are bringing up the minimum system requirements everybody gets 16 gigs of RAM oh my God what oh is that enough I think the Snapdragon Elite sounds very interesting as a processor that that's what I'm interested in seeing like what is is the is the battery life actually going to be good is the performance actually going to be good because if it is then it's been a really long time but maybe we finally have like because competition is good for everyone right I love my Macs so much and they're the best but I would like to see them have competition on the chip side to actually have to push things forward and on the software side too your point Alex I want to correct myself you were right Wesley the 40 tops is the minimum but the uh the surface has 45 tops so you're that's where your your number was actually accurate that's the Qualcomm hexagon npu built into the surface one more point about this before we move on Leo you said your surface sorry your iPad Pro was 3K Allin yeah okay is that ridiculous cuz I because you want a terabyte so that you can get 16 gigs of RAM as opposed to eight gigs you want the the unbinned processor with the four performance cores uh and you want a terabyte of storage that sets you back almost three grand by itself and then you add a $350 keyboard and $129 pen and you're done yes EXA because I'm I'm sitting here looking at the co the surface laptop co-pilot plus PC 13.8 inch with the npu in the cool blue that Christina mentioned and it's 1K yeah with a keyboard for free thrown in it's attached like I I just I I struggled to but who's doing so here's the real question maybe Christina is the best equipped to answer this do does anybody now need that npu or is that future proofing is there anything you're doing locally that you need 45 tops I think it'll depend um and and this I think is what what It ultimately comes down to in terms of like what developers how they can show up with what sort of applications you're going to do these are the things that you know new features they're going to be building into windows and and things that will take advantage of that um application developers I think yeah I mean this is the set they're definitely going to be pushing for right but like I do feel like we've already seen just in you know you were mentioning slack earlier Alex and just you know kind of this bolt-on stuff we've seen all these companies really in a rush to just bolt on as much AI stuff as possible I would like to see especially with the kind of the rise of these small language models and and the Five series which is um um so the the co-pilot plus PCS will come with this thing called the co-pilot uh Windows co-pilot runtime and it's going to have like 40 plus models on it I think more will come over time including their their Five series of models models some that are optimized specifically for these devices and some that will come from other places and I think what's what's interesting about that is that it's going to potentially allow developers to not have to think about okay well what small AI model do I want to use and how do I get this set up and how do I call this it's just a thing that they can while they're building their app call and have it you know um uh perform instructions using the npu and and using these on device models and that I I I don't know I'm hopeful about that I'm hopeful that six months from now we will see some really compelling especially with image editing right and um and other tools see some really interesting use cases of this well Microsoft did announce a new app that will be part of Windows 11 and your copilot plus PC that caused quite a storm uh we will talk about we'll talk about recall when we uh come back uh you're watching This Week in Tech with Alex Wilhelm great to have you uh Wesley Faulkner and Christina Warren our show today brought to you by thst Canary love these guys we've had than Canary's running on our Network I can't talk too much about it because it's a security device here's why you need a think Canary you've got great perimeter defenses right I'm sure you do you've got your whatever your firewalls all that stuff is running but what happens when somebody gets into the network gets past your defenses or Worse maybe there's a malicious Insider and they're wandering around the network most companies don't have any way of knowing that in fact the average is bad guys wander the network for as much as six months before anybody notices or before they announce themselves you don't want them to announce themselves because usually that means oh we've just encrypted your entire network and destroyed all your backups and exfiltrated information about your customers it's not a good thing you need a way of knowing if there's a bad guy in your network and that's what thinks canary does a think Canary is an easy to deploy Honeypot you don't have to know anything about honeypots to deploy it you can set it up as a Windows Server you can set it up as a Linux server you can have a few select Services running you can have it lit up like a Christmas tree mine's running like a sonology Nas it could be a skat device here's the key you can even use it to create files by the way that you could spread around your network lure files but here's the key the minute somebody attacks those lure files files or that fake SSH server or whatever is that you've configured it as your thinks canary will immediately tell you you got a problem no false alerts just the alerts that matter choose a profile for your things Canary you can change it every day if you want like it's kind of fun to play with them there's hundreds to choose from and it looks exactly like my sonology Nas has a sonology MAC address has the DSM login if in every way is indistinguishable from a sonology nest except that when somebody tries to to log into it I get a notification you register with your hosted console you get monitoring you get notifications you can also use it uh with web hooks CIS log you can have it email you you can have it text you really the sky is the limit there's even an API so you can you can let the thanks Canary let you know you're in trouble any way you want but you but here's the thing you're not going to hear a thing unless there's an attacker attackers who breached your network malicious insiders or any other kind of adversary make themselves known when they hit your trip wire files or your think scary it's really a brilliant brilliant idea not a surprise the folks behind the things Canary have taught governments and companies how to attack for years and they've taken everything they've learned from being these white hat hackers and made the things to Canary they don't they don't look vulnerable they look valuable visit than canaries you can get more or less depending on the size of your operation you also get your own hosted console you get upgrades support maintenance now if you use the code twit in the how did you hear about a box you're going to get 10% off Forever For Life you can also return your thinks canaries they have a very generous two-month 60-day money back guarantee for a full refund but I got to tell you we've been talking about things canaries for almost a decade now and not once in all those years has anyone ever asked for the refund the re because people love this thing as soon as you get it you'll realize how have we lived with that at visit canary.is twit enter the code twit in the how did you hear about us box this is one layer of security everybody needs canary.is twit don't forget the offer code twit to save 10% off for life thank you than for the than canaries and supporting all of our shows for all these years Alex says I covet the new Surface laptop I want one are you a Windows guy Alex I I am I am ambidextrous and I use both each and every day I have my work machine a MacBook Pro M3 Pro uh and then I have a personal iMac M1 that I abdor it's in pink and then I have a gaming PC that is multicolor RGB and chaotic with a hot pink keyboard mechanical of course so my my home office is mish mash of everything is it pink cuz of your baby daughter no it's pink cuz I freaking love the color okay just asking yeah actually my daughter's favorite colors are food great color yeah I have to I have to weep because I too bought the M3 Max MacBook Pro as did I I got the black one and then they come out with the M4 and then basically they said you know I didn't say it but it's obvious talk about it we're not going to make M3s those that was just an interim product the M4 is the future they were like thanks for your $5,500 um purchase with us Christina thanks okay but here's the thing though and I and and I love apple and I love their their silicon it is literally fantastic I went from an intel-based MacBook Pro to an M1 MacBook Pro and it was night and day yes I went from an M1 MacBook Pro to an M3 Pro MacBook Pro and it feels pretty much the same yeah it's great but it's still just as it still just good you know like it's it doesn't feel that same jump no I feel the same way and the one area where and this is part of why and I think Leo I think you did the same as me I think we both like went full bore like 128 gigabytes y yeah we Pro I thought no no I same that's what I thought too I was like oh this would be so great and then six months later like oh you thought um but I will say for some of the local model stuff ironically it has been that's been that's been where I've noticed the difference between my M1 Max my M Max has been with the local small which one are you playing with which local model are you playing with well a lot of them I mean the 53 stuff is actually really good um and and that's that's from Microsoft um Mr obviously has some uh Facebook's llama 3 really impressive there are a lot of things that are more optimized on hugging face hugging face is a lot of fun for all of that oh that's actually another thing that the Microsoft announced stable diffusion running on locally you're talking about yeah well lots of things like a tons tons of different models tons of different people optimizing for things but that's actually another thing that Microsoft announced at build that got kind of lost a little bit is that um how most of the models on hugging face how you need to run them is is using a a tool called pie torch but to do them on Windows you would have to use this thing called the onx runtime to convert from um uh the format that it was in to be able to run on Windows well they're bringing pie torch to Windows natively so you can like with one with one click run the models locally which will be really really good for you know Dev types of of all Stripes because whether you're like me and you're just good at kind of following along with with tutorials and and doing demos or you're actually really good at this stuff it should mean like less setup and customization time I kind of think maybe I'll get the uh the uh Dev unit because then you get this Snapdragon Elite and you get uh all of that for under a thousand bucks and it's like a littlea little knck looks like Mac Mini yeah it looks just like a Mac mini um the the Qualcomm guys were nice enough to to show it to me um I was at build and it's yeah it's like $900 um uh it'll be available on uh June 18th but it comes with 32 gigs of RAM and you know the highest end thing and so that's actually for people who for developers out there like if you're like I don't know if I need to get a new laptop right now look at this thing I'm glad I'm glad they brought this out this is something that makes me hopeful like I'm I'm still being Optimist like cautiously optimistic to to um give Alex a shout out um about what windows on arm will actually be light but this seeing Dev kits like this I'm like okay they're actually here to play Let's go so before we before we move from this section just really quickly I I I don't know why I do this but usually when I'm on twit I kind of like talk about my thoughts about the future I like this no this is why I like having you on Wesley this is great there's there's been rumors about what Windows 12 will look like and there's also been rumors that Microsoft is really wanting to have a subscription model of Windows and so getting people hooked on AI local models and and being able to have them have a subscription service when they need a little bit more oomph for their AI processing is a logical Evolution to get people to pay a subscription fee from Windows and so this this feels like that they're trying to make people have uh like get used to AI running locally but also when they want to tackle something more maybe not upgrade their PC every year uh instead keep their same PC but then maybe borrow some cloud services as they need more uh Power for their different models or the whatever the new thing comes out they can still maintain their Hardware but still just pay a little bit more to Microsoft to be able to leverage some of those Cloud we've kind of been expecting this for years haven't we keep keep waiting for Microsoft to make that announcement I mean I also AI pricing yeah sorry P well I also thought they'd virtualize windows so I'm clearly a fool but uh I thought maybe the way to do it was a subscription to Windows in the cloud that you could run on a thin client but now that I see local AI models running I realized that's that was a dead end so it's a good thing nobody nobody took my they need a minimum level of Hardware right and so they can just say this is the minimum level for Windows 12 right and then not have to worry about supporting those old models I mean don't know anything about Windows 12 even down to when it will be I'm guessing gu but I think one good guess is it will be AI for forward right very clearly that's where Microsoft I would think so yeah yes I would think so I mean I genuinely have no idea but yeah yeah Christina we should be very clear it's not saying this is a spokesperson for no Microsoft in any way shape or form this is uh Christina is on a a busman's holiday she's uh talking about it on her own recognizance uh one the reason why I think Wesley is right though that there has been a price shift in software as it comes to ai ai software costs a lot of money if you want the the AI addition to Office 365 Microsoft 365 it's like 30 bucks a month you want right open AI Services 20 bucks a month people pay for this stuff and by the way that's still probably below cost isn't it Alex I mean this stuff is hideously expensive for these models to generate not to put Christina on the spot here because I don't mean to make this about her company but there was a a a a media report that came out that said that co-pilot uh at GitHub was a money losing operation and then I believe 30 months yeah and then I believe the CEO said no that's not true and that's where we left it so it's it's not clear to me exactly what the margins here are but there are costs you're right and I think it's also just like there's a price uh threshold being set and so consumers will expect to pay for AI so to Wesley's point if Windows 12 does have ai and upgrades and so forth I can see that actually being reasonably well received by power users the prosumers out there and not mocked mercilessly like I don't know Windows 8 right well and when people use AI it's you know it's funny uh people are willing to pay for the Wall Street Journal uh generally people are not willing to pay for a subscription to news but if you're making money on this subscription if the journal helps you make money you're willing to pay 175 bucks a year for it or Bloomberg right look how expensive a terminal is it's crazy 26 27,000 a year white do yeah but it makes you money I've never had one a i the the the one thing I've not had in life is a Bloomberg terminal it sounds like you want one what would you do who doesn't want one really one why oh because it's got data it's I went to Bloomberg in San Francisco and I sat down with the Bloomberg team and they gave me a tour this was back when Bitcoin was brand new so this must have been like you know 10 10 years ago now and they were just like what do you want to know I was just asking stuff and they were just pulling up the data live ships around the world it just if you are it's better than the Internet it's like the Internet it's like okay the internet is heroin a Bloomberg terminal is fentel it it here's the thing put you to sleep forever no here's the thing it's the internet but it's like it's like the it's like the internet for super rich people it's like it's like the private club internet right it's it's like the Delta Lounge it's like the Centurion Lounge version of the internet like you get everything faster better but my point is you're willing to pay a lot of money for it because it makes you money and I think well that's the whole thing that that's why yes it's going to be the same thing for AI uh you know to talk to Scarlett Johansson maybe not worth 20 bucks a month although I must say I'm paying 20 bucks a month for open AI for uh Gemini from Google and for perplexity AI each I didn't get an R1 I should have done that it would have saved me money it would have been half price right absolutely $200 like hey you get this dumb you know Gadget but you also get the thing but you also get a but you get the perplexity Pro yeah which is honestly I'm I'm happy about it only for the fact that it turned around to perplexity Pro and I was like I really like perplexity perplexity yeah I have all three because I want to try all three I also run local models as well I although I have to say maybe I need a surface because the local models do not run as quickly as chat GPT does chat GPT is very fast it's kind of and 40 is even faster it's almost instant is perplexity better than Google's search generative experience oh God can we hold off on that because I do want to talk about that but I but I did say we would talk about recall so let's let's do recall and then we got to talk about putting Elmer's glue in your pizza toppings so good it's so good never change uh so uh a couple of months ago a company came out called rewind rewind. that promised on a Mac to record everything you do over a period of time and then allow you to query it which seemed like a great idea then they came out with a limitless pin that proposed to record everything in your world with a little wearable device and let you query it uh nobody got upset about this because I guess mainly cuz you had to you know subscribe and buy it but Microsoft obviously paid attention because they have basically built this capability into the new windows 11 Microsoft calls it recall and it wasn't long before everybody in the privacy and security Community started screaming my hair's on fire here's one from Lawrence Abrams at bleeping computer Microsoft new windows 11 recall is a privacy nightmare uh except it's not really because it never leaves your device it's encrypted using bit Locker I mean the only reason recall would be a problem is if somebody got access to your PC then maybe there'd be a problem yeah in the which case if we're being completely caned like you're screwed anyway right you're in trouble no matter what yeah yeah so the interesting thing is that rewind. a uh is rebranded as limitless. a and the founder of the company did a little video clip on Twitter responding to people asking him like oh my gosh Microsoft you know made recall it's like well you guys were building shock and he said you sherlocked yes and he said well kind of but what we're doing now is a personal private Cloud so that way we can do a recall style thing across multiple devices and here's I I like the boldness of that I like to try something bigger here's the thing uh the cloud is not always as secure as I might personally wish it to be whereas my device is probably a little bit safer and so to me Microsoft is doing the smaller version of what now Limitless is doing but it seems like something I could trust but it's and it's also one device only though right it doesn't it's it's it's the particular device you're using it on so if you have three PCS each one is independent right that's my understanding yeah but this is all I haven't got to play with it yet you know so testing to come but actually that sounds kind of lame though Leo because then if I have three PCS and you know I'm a dweeb so I have several I almost wish we could tied to like my Microsoft account to my local home is this always the the problem is AI works better if you have no privacy it always works so much better all these things do yeah well all these things do it's not even just AI right it's like because if you think about it like the AI component is is the natural language to service this this data but like fundamentally what these things are doing is they're they just you know capturing a bunch of information right and we're like no we love this and we love that it's on our local device because we don't want it in the cloud where it's unsafe but at the same time you know I do kind of want it everywhere because I want to be able to use it because I'm also a dweep Alex because I want to be able to access it on all the things that I'm on yeah Team D you know what though Christina this actually underscores for me the importance of encryption and it underscores the importance of combating I think currently the EU is trying to once again weaken encryption and it just goes to show that we cannot afford to lose that fight as always but now even more so because if we are going to have more AI tach more personal data we need to ensure a good point yes that we're safe fantastic Point yeah well and that's why we've been really fighting over over access to your smartphone because in effect that's what this is is a device that's collecting every bit of your information all your data smog is going into this device and if law enforcement can just easily access it uh you're an open book and it'll be 10 times worse with with the new AI Technologies well no I mean and and that's what that's what I think um Microsoft needs to do a a better job being very crisp on who has access what you know I think they've done a good job I don't think that that satisfied for some reason that satisfied privacy Advocates they just don't trust M no I me which is fair but I think you need to just come out and say this is exactly how it works right because the thing is is that Bic software already exists meaning um you know I don't know how well it works on the Mac although it does should work pretty well but I know like on Windows like if you know someone can get into your PC that's the big thing if they if they can get through your your password to log into your PC they can put friends like software on there and they can see basically anything you've done like it's really good in many cases your work is already doing that or your school is already doing that and they don't have to tell you ahead of time they don't have to tell you right and so the difference here is this no actually you could surface some of that data yourself where it would be useful be like oh what was that thing I looked up had that thing with a thing yeah and and you could find it like okay that's actually useful but the the broader concerns which I completely understand why they're there um I mean you know I don't know how different I guess my my big misunderstanding with some of the Uproar is I don't know how this is that different than things that have already existed right it's like okay if it's all held locally it's just being surfaced in a different manner but but they can already get access to this data anyway you know Christina go back to the top of the conversation we're talking about Sam mman open Ai and trust and essentially the the ability for people who are leaders and very visibly public leaders of AI to set the tone for trust between the public and Technology here is where that rubber touches the road you're absolutely right you're absolutely right and this is a fancy UI yeah this is a fancy UI of the history of your PC so if they can get on it anyway and it it makes sense that it's not Cloud connected because anything that touches the cloud can be subpoena right encrypted or not I mean it's I don't know if the encryption is what do they call it like post Quantum encryption or not which means it can be broken so it's important that it's not Cloud connected whatsoever it needs to stay on device on the UI point though Wesley so what's really interesting is you just reminded me what it looks like the the interface that shows the the scroll bar and then the the moving um rectangles of screen images it's coverflow the old like iTunes thing yes and I know this is evidence that I'm old but I mean we've seen this and it it was great when it came out originally as cover full I think it looks great now as you're old as new again oh my god well technology is a flat circle as we all know just going around and around true I I would use this though I think like recall if once I 11 no same I I I think I would use this too I think this is the sort of thing I I had a question in my mind I was like would you enable this or would you be weirded out I'm like no I think I would use this because I okay and I'm one of these weirdos I probably shouldn't admit this I still have even though I know it's a bad idea I have like my Google search history turned on and the reason is is because I've on more than like an handful of occasions gone through and like found like searched for certain queries and found things that I searched for like seven years ago I was like what was that thing with that thing that with the thing you know and and I do that all the time found something in my search history I also have the location history turned on just cuz I like seeing the map going W you been here and here w I love that and by the way I bought the Limitless pin I can't wait I I don't care I want to know I you know what part of it is because I'm getting old and I don't remember anymore and so so now I'm GNA have a device that I can say what did I have for dinner and it'll know in a in a in a post Twitter world where like did I see it on X did I see it on guy did I see it on maedon was that slack no was IQ no icq doesn't exist anymore yeah no I know it's dying in a month we're so old a are we sad what was do you remember your icq number I do what was it 18 185 645 wow I do not remember mine you guys remember your icq numbers I don't think I ever had one if I had that Microsoft thing then maybe I would remember but you need see this is why I need recall you need recall you could find out I see Q which is now owned by what is it VK workspace uh yeah the Russians bought it like a million years ago bought icq and now in June 26 we're killing it so it's goodbye but it's mostly goodbye to a piece of Internet history right yes that's really what it was I was going to be like I haven't been able to log into that account and I don't know how long um there used to be a way because AOL bought icq and you used to be able to log in um via aim with your icq number with Messenger right um but when AOL Instant Messenger died and gosh at this point I think it's probably been six or seven years and and I hadn't been able to log into that account even longer before that so it's been I don't even know how long it's been but it's it's been at least 15 years since I the internet has now been around long enough that it that it it is littered that its Trail is littered with you know defunct tools and this is just one more of them I was going to save that story to my obituary section because there's a few but but we we got a little a little preview of the obituaries still to come let's take a little break more to talk about in just a bit Wesley fauler great to see you uh any lizards snakes anything going on back there just this morning we had to bury our bunny um but we do have four four baby chicks that we' transitioned out of the incubator outside um and so wait a minute you have a baby incubator in your backyard well no there it was inside and now they're they've grown old enough that they've gotten most of their adult so now they're an incubator in your house yes and so we have um we have eight uh nine other chickens full grown okay and so now they're so you have a little chicken C you have a whole yeah we have chicken C operation my sister in Sunnyville does this she has chickens now because she's becoming slowly a Neolithic farmer despite living in Silicon Valley and it's like the new cool thing apparently in at least some the California El here in peda it is in sconed into our city Charter that you everybody in penuma is allowed to have chickens it's a law they eat scraps it's they're like little and eggs pop out yeah yeah and then you get eggs every day I mean great yeah and then one day they may not make eggs and then you make dinner oh jeez and then what you do is once they've outlived their useful is you murder them and then cook them I mean I eat chicken but it does feel a little barbaric I had vegans over for dinner last night so now eggs are their like their next generation of chickens so like that's a good point you're eating their you get them at the beginning or you get them at the end I mean circle of dinner wow didn't know we were going there today on the show no idea uh also Alex Wilhelm in his backyard he's got him it's called an Alex Coupe and that's where he is right now in the Alex Coupe I am in the Alex uh Cube you might say it's the uh it's where my wife musts me put all my things it's really so that I'm so jealous it's so cute I wish we'd thought of it when I lived there in 1967 um you all know that right that Alex lives in the house that I grew up in in Providence Island it's it is one of the strangest coincidences of my life it's so weird it's so weird uh in fact I was just uh you know on the Amazon Echo I get I have a slideshow and I just yesterday saw my dad sitting where you are right now on a lounge chair with his hat contemplating he was about 32 and I'm thinking oh my God anyway yeah now now this house is is strictly owned by one 17-month-old child who has more toys and goods and things and books and blocks then like like she has a um a Sandbox right that's on Wheels so we can roll it around you're actually supposed to do that with a chicken coup so that it doesn't ruin your yard we are not getting chickens we have to that's how you scramble the eggs dude I want fewer animals in my house not when I was looking into having chickens because as you know that is my right as a pumin native uh I did look into they have chicken coops that roll because you probably know this uh Wesley wherever the chickens Roost really becomes unpleasant Slime Pit they'll decimate grass as well so it's like you can rotate them for but if you if you roll it around then they can decimate your whole yard bit by bit it's a Innovative approach um anyway I'm glad it's nice that Alex and his you have a is public did we say it you have a young another young one on the way yes number two of two the the last one if you will the I'm not doing three arrives in early September and we're very excited we're having another girl yay two girls that's awesome oh yeah it's gonna be fantastic and I we already have a name kind of picked out we're getting closer to that and we have a we have a C-section on the books man so we are gearing up and I am yeah terrified absolutely terrified I do not blame you here is the picture that I promised you of my father sitting it this would be 1966 67 something like that uh come on come on it's not that big a shot oh it's not coming up right where you're working which is so weird Leo has come over since Liza and I have owned this house see if you recognize see if you recognize this plot of land this is where that's my dad where you're sitting right now it looks so we've built like a whole back deck I know it's very different like that that really doesn't look that much like the house that's crazy there is uh I will show you also there is as you know well this is so when we moved in the backyard was filled with junk so we had a roto till it that's me with my dad behind me rototilling exactly where that oak tree just outside your door is yeah right over there yeah yep and uh we found bottle 100y old L liquor bottles we found handguns we found all sorts of stuff we had a roto till it up to make it the nice verdant plot that it is right now yes and the background here is the reason why there were bits of ancient ttis is because the house was originally built in 1806 yes which is very close to the founding of this nation you will recall 30 years years after and here is here is Dad planting the tree they called it a pinoke when he planted it it's tiny how big is that now um it's so big now that whenever we have a rainstorm like we did two days ago I'm always worried it's going to fall onto my workshed and kill me it's got to be like 100 a picture it's hug I no I took a picture of it when I was visiting and I gave it to my dad and that's kind of a neat thing that you know what is it 60 years later yeah uh the tree that he planted is now giant it's awesome and it's it's very expensive because the jerks behind us cut a bunch of the roots so now sever several times a year the tree people have to come out and do special fertilizer special watering and then verify that it's healthy so tell your D we are yeah his tree is well cared for thank you for keeping it alive uh which is we love it yeah that's really awesome it's such a nice story and Christina Warren who is in Seattle Washington we can't tell because uh it's very blurry there it must be the fog it's the fog no and it honestly the fog is is is real like it is it is the end of May and it is still a high of 60 degrees we've never had like a cold at least as long as I lived here there's never been a cold snap like this it's it's um apparently it was lovely like the one week I was gone I was in Atlanta and Atlanta was was disaster and then was Portland Portland was and apparently it was very nice here and I came back and I'm like is it actually like it's like the last week of May and it's still this is good for me to hear because we have thought for a long time about moving to Seattle I thought it'd be kind of fun to retire up there and every time we go it's beautiful sunny it's warm I so this is Gorge they lie to you they lie they lie to you it's a lie yeah they do everybody's like oh it's like this all the time no it's not um for for a few months out of the year and usually it starts already at this time it is really lovely and so that's how they trick you and then October rolls around and you go oh I GRE up I grew up at the pack Northwest I consider myself to be a pack Northwest expert and let me tell you Leo the weather is better in Petaluma yeah you shouldn't move stay where you are you can have chickens very nice and I can have chickens right so there our show it's great to have all of you here you make it you make I tell you I look forward to hanging out with each and every one of you you're really fantastic and of course our wonderful audience we have a great Community that's one of the things I realized after 20 years we are in our 20th year now of doing twit and I you learn a thing or two in a couple of decades one of which is it's all about the community that's what podcasting is all about the community of people who are more than listeners they're participants in it we have a new way that you can do it which is to join our club if you want to join a community of smart interesting people who hang out in our Discord who listen to our shows who call into some of our shows I invite you to join Club to it it's seven bucks a month makes a big difference to us a lot less than the Wall Street Journal and maybe doesn't make you as much money as a Bloomberg terminal but it is a lot of fun you'll get all of our shows ad free you'll get video of shows that we only do in audio and public plus twit plus bonus content like that crazy watch party we did with Fritz Langs metropolis a couple of weeks ago we've got a Stacy's book club your friend Stacy hiin Botham Wesley coming up uh we're going to be doing on June 20th we also uh have a lot of other benefits but really the real benefit is knowing that you're helping us stay on the air we unfortunately do need your support to continue doing what we do we'd like to do it so please go to twit.tv Club twit if you're not already a member and sign up today we thank you in advance we'll have more in just a bit with this fabulous panel but first a word from our sponsor for this segment of This Week in Tech net Suite the less your business spends on operations on multiple systems on delivering your product or service the more margin you have the more money you get to keep in order to reduce costs and headaches smart businesses are graduating to netsuite by Oracle netsuite is the number one Cloud Financial system bringing accounting financial management inventory HR all into one platform which means one source of Truth with net Suite you reduce it costs because netsuite lives in the cloud with no Hardware required can be accessed from anywhere you cut the cost of maintaining multiple systems because you've got one unified business management Suite you improve efficiency by bringing all your major business processes into one platform slashing manual tasks and errors over 37,000 companies have already made the move to net Suite so do the math see how you'll profit with netsuite by popular demand netsuite has extended its one-of-a-kind flexible financing program for just a few more weeks so don't delay head to netsuite.com twit that's netsuite.com twit NE TSI T nets.com twit we thank them so much for their support of This Week in Tech actually in a couple of weeks we're going to stream the the uh Apple keynote we talked about build on Wednesday we we talked about uh uh open ai's chat 40 on last Monday uh Google had its IO in which they said the words AI 120 times in two hours and we only know that that's once a minute come to think of it we only know that because uh Nadella admitted to it he said we've had AI counting all this time I don't think the Google IO keyot was much to home about to be honest um I can't recall much of what they announced that they really want developers to know that they're doing AI now please think about us for your Cloud needs ironically with what I mean 2our keynote and all that the real takeaway from Google IO is what's happened to their AI answers in search Google uh had a uh a well was from from the Google Labs SGI uh that or sge I guess they call it search generated experience or something like that that they finally they turned on for everybody almost immediately people started saying oh I am getting weird results they called it the AI overview which was a summary paragraph ahead of your search results but some of the things it's telling people to do are a little utree for instance put glue on your pizza to keep the cheese from falling off by can you can you pull up the headline from 404 because it's it's I don't know if we can say it I can't say it out loud but right so they figured out that the actual um information that Google was was uh was serving up came from Reddit Google we know gave Reddit $60 million uh they found they found the this is the AI overview cheese can slide off pizza for a number of reasons including too much sauce too much cheese or thicken sauce here are some things you can try you can also add about an eigh cup of non-toxic glue to the sauce to give it more tackiness now probably won't kill you but it's probably not a good idea 404 pointed out that and I guess they got this from a uh from a tweet 404 pointed out that this actually was Google AI regurgitating something it had learned from Reddit wait minute let me see if I can find the and and by the way the redditor who uh posted that I don't know if I can say it uh out loud fith was his handle fith so yes maybe this isn't worth 60 million dollars after all Maybe not maybe not I don't know it seems one of those things I'm like hm um I I am a person who very frequently appends Reddit to my various seches because that's that that we've we've been trained the last few years and that's one of the only ways you can get a good result unless you do what I now do which is to pay for a search Eng and I've become one of those people um but if you're not doing that I'm like I I'll append that having said that I don't know if I would if I would put in you know like even and I bet even if I did a pin Reddit uh to like how to make she's not fall off a pizza I don't think that that's the first result that I would get yeah in fact it's really weaponized the ability to pull crap out of out of Reddit uh here a few more uh Patrick Cosmo these are all from x.com Patrick Cosmo and by the way Google's response is well no these are unusual circumstances or you were you were messing with us has a dog ever doing it wrong you're were doing it wrong it's your fault has a dog ever played in the NBA yes a dog has played in the NBA according to AI overview is Batman a cop yes Batman is a cop because he works with the law as an agent of detective Jim Gordon who deputizes him Batman is called by the bad signal to solve stop or catch a crime which is something the government does really the bad signal does government do that I I mean Batman is kind of a cop if you okay that's the only one I kind of agree with I think Batman is kind of a cop Batman's not not a cop right I think he's actually a cop but he's he's cop adjacent if you correct one of he can never he could never be arrested for doing something a legal so thus he's a cop oh he's got what do they call that qualified immunity yeah yeah qualified immunity how many presidents graduated from the University of Wisconsin according this is the air rview according to the Wisconsin Alumni Association 13 Presidents by the way John Adams graduated in 1934 35 47 51 54 57 60 6 68 6971 John Adams really 7374 76 7779 8187 1990 2002 and 2003 I have to say when AI fails it fails spectacularly it does but but also how good to to open a how I feel about this oh my God Andrew jackon graduated according to google in 2005 James Madison graduated in 195 56 William Harrison graduated in 53 and 74 you know what pisses me off about this what makes me so infuriatingly mad is that Google search was good and simple they have sced they have consistently crapp ified it they have so unnecessarily for for example on on YouTube which we all use when you search for something it now gives you like what five links that are like what you search for and then it says people also watched go way Lee stop trying to help me you know I am able to think Google has paused this feature but not before we found many hilarities like this how many rocks shall I eat according to geologists at UC Berkeley you should eat at least one small rock a day they say the rocks are a final source of minerals and vitamins that are important for Digestive Health this has to be a joke Dr Joseph Gra suggests eating a server of gravel geodes or Pebbles with each meal or hiding rocks in foods like ice cream or peanut butter no don't do that Rocky Road Rocky Road you know I think this is actually chicken advice right don't chickens have to eat rocks yes they have to eat some gravel but there was another one that I saw was like how many sisters do I have and someone says well you ask someone else how many brothers they have then multiply times two and it just by the way I don't know who came up with this one here is uh from uh from our own Burke mcquinn The Rock eating rocks how do you think the rock got so big right not gravel but giant Boulders ladies and gentlemen proper nutrition and push-ups of course there's nothing artificial whatsoever in his physique oh good lord um what were they thinking did they use this before they shipped it out to everybody in the world this is Google search Google spokesperson Megan Farnsworth according to the verge said the mistakes came from quote generally very uncommon queries you're right I'm think asking how many rocks you should e is a little weird and aren't representative who would have a sample of queries who would have that information how could they get that how could you no one could have complet yes and also how many presidents have graduated from like a university that's not I mean Super query but that's that's like a query that you're non pre you know doing the generative AI push is like a knowledge based thing that Google used to get wrong but at least you know they had some sort of overview of being able to report that it was wrong now can you even report that these things are incorrect when they even come in like ability I think the mistake is not that Google's Gemini AI is somehow more prone hallucination I don't think it is the mistake is simply doing that AI overview in search result and uh I'm sure in that position perplexity and Claude and everybody else open AI would make similar mistakes or something maybe not so bad those are pretty awful but but this is what happens with ai ai has to be used responsibly and Google is so desperate to you know cash in on AI or not to be left behind maybe even more importantly maybe they shouldn't have laid off all those people um I don't know what what went wrong at Google yeah Ed zitan says prabon pravan uh Pro prakar ragavan was what went wrong the new guy in charge Mackenzie guy in charge yeah M it's not one person the problem is they had one business line guys and they had to juice it for more and more Revenue so they found people who could do that here from LinkedIn is a uh a message from Scott Jensen who left he says I just left Google last month the AI project I were I was working on were poorly motivated and driven by this mindless Panic that as long as it had AI in it it would be great this myopia is not something driven by a user need it's a stone cold Panic that they're getting left behind the vision is that there will be a Tony Stark like Jarvis assistant in your phone that locks you into their ecosystem so hard you'll never leave that Vision pure catnip the fear is they can't afford to let someone else get there first that this is the telling Point Scott says the exact thing happened 13 years ago with Google+ I was there for that Fiasco at well as well that was a similar reaction but to Facebook that that Rings true whether it is I don't know it does it rings true it's Panic yeah I mean I think I think that that definitely ring I think that's how you see like how much was this stuff tested it definitely comes across as people who are like I we're getting all kinds of pressure from all of our bosses and our boss's bosses and their boss's bosses that we need to push this out as quickly as possible and hey the testing seems fine to us um we don't have time to do maybe as in- depth as we would like to because we we are responding to everything and instead yeah you take this thing which had been the best the best in class for a long time to the point that it literally obviated many many many every other attempt at a search engine like the fact that um like I pay for a search engine now if you would ask me that even five years ago i' been like what are you talking about why would I ever pay for a search engine ever right the fact that it's even a business right which one do you uh KY me too or love it I used to use Nea which by the way did AI overviews although I never saw anything so egregious from Neva they went out of business they said we can't compete against Google uh how much you pay I think I pay 25 bucks a month for KI um I am part of a family plan or Duo plan so my friend Justin got it first and then I think it was I think it's $75 a year that's what I've been mod Justin because I'm part of his Duo plan I think it's like $150 two people it's pretty good for me it has been Yeah it's gotten really good I got to the point that I have become so frustrated with Google that I was like I I'm actually going to be one of those people who pays for a search engine we'll see how it goes and it's been really good so far I have to say I I've been getting much better results I've gone through the process of making it my default on all my devices um apparently Google uh released this thing um uh um like a way where you can access like the unadulterated search from Google and and so um I I put a link to that in in the various chats but um but but um Ernie from TDM has also created a great website udm 14.com which basically just gives you like the AI free search directly so that comes from the fact that somebody discovered if you add Ampersand udm equals 14 to any Google search and this is a Google search it will not give you any of the AI stuff right and and and this didn't even come from like the way that was discovered was that this was bizarrely on May 14th this was tweeted out by the the Google search Leon who I think is Danny Sullivan says we've launched a new web filter that shows only text Spas links just like how you might filter other types of results and so this is a thing they actually introduced officially which is great really fantastic they did that but of course the way to natively kind of do that um is is a pain and so a number of different websites have popped up so that people can config it be their default they just depend it right yeah yeah uh it's funny if you search Google Now for should I eat rocks what you'll get is all the news stories of Google saying you should eat rocks this is hysterical Google's like no because they've had to go in manually this is this is the the the awful thing with stuff like this and look it it could happen anyone any company who would do this would run into these sorts of problems and and we do and it would be a joke we'd laugh at it I think it is worse when it's Google and you were so good for so long that no one could even begin to compete with you I mean Microsoft mean God how much time have has Microsoft Microsoft's spent trying to make being a thing right like it it you know and and now just the the own goaling here is of of Google Search is is really spectacular the main reason we pay for is because there's no ads and even Larry Page in the beginning in the earliest days in his first paper about page ranks said a search engine can't sell ads because that compromises the results for a long time there was a a wall between revenue ad sales and search and that's what Ed zitrin was writing about when he said uh you know as soon as uh Gomes left or was replaced by prakar ragavan that that wall disappeared and Google started tweaking its search results for more Revenue but I don't think that explains it all it's clearly something's going on and this Crown Jewel has been destroyed it's worth it's worth it for you and me to pay to to use a different search engine that's amazing you're right no one would have said that five years ago it would have sound nuts yeah so so kaggy k a gii if you want to look up what they're talking about um I was just poking around while you guys were talking about it and I saw that it had raised one funding round and I was like okay that's kind of strange it only has one round of $670,000 this was a bootstrapped company until last year when it raised less than a million which is an insane thing because in the technology world today anyone who's going to go out there and build something that's competitive tries to raise lots of money very quickly to go fast but in this case you guys are paying two and three figures per year for a product that was effectively bootstrapped by some dweebs that is a cool story Steven Wolf's on Steven wolfram's on their board too which adds to some of the cache right founded in 2018 by a guy named Vladimir prac in paloalto uh boat strapped by the founder um he must have had a some other he so he sold something and made some money off of it so he's been bootstrapping it um the how I first became aware of it was that um he also makes this thing the Orion web browser which is right a webkit based browser for Mac but it uses Chrome extensions which is pretty oh which is pretty cool yeah yeah zero to liit that's how I first came across it you know our friend Corey Doo has said that uh the widespread use I think it's now according to Pew 52% of all Americans use ad blockers he says the widespread use of ad blockers is the largest consumer boycott in history and I think that's what we're seeing I think we're seeing consumers finally say hey enough uh even people who are not techsavvy or not really even paying attention are noticing it's not working right well and the thing is is that you know I I always I'm always frustrated by the ad um Tech situation because I think that a lot of people there there's always going to be a portion of people and and the audience for this show is certainly going to be largely have more people in in in this segment than um maybe others but there's always going to be a portion of people who will just reject any advertisement at all but I think there are plenty of people who are like no if the ad is tasteful and if it's not in my face and if you don't aren't giving pop-ups and if you're not slowing things down if you're not making my overall experience worse fine I don't care um but when you know the adtech has gone out of its way to be just such a completely terrible experience you can't blame individuals from doing everything they can to know that the first thing you do when you get a new web browser is install you block origin right like that's that's one of the first things you do yes we've been preaching that for years now right well I just got a new computer for for work CU I'm now helping out with this weekend startup so they bought me a computer and I forgot to install you block whatever the hell it is that we all use and I was pulling up a YouTube and oh my God it's amazing the was absolutely Bonkers I I absolutely will never use that product because no right just just a hard pass that's how they get me to pay a lot of money for YouTube premium I was going to say I have I have a a grandfather Den YouTube premium account that I don't I don't even want to talk about it because I'm afraid that the the grandfather pricing will somehow go away so we won't talk about it but yeah I will never not pay for YouTube premium even if they make me pay the actual amount oh I do I do I just it's worth it I will pay no no I oh I that's what I'm saying there's never a situation where I will not pay for it I will always pay for it yeah I agree yeah yeah yeah that's what I'm saying and that's why Club twit is such a good deal at only $7 only7 get result ladies and gentlemen giving you a Ste tap in it's a deal also can can I can I say it's an old person thing yes um you're not you're not old enough to say it but go ahead I remember the days of shareware where you would get software and it itself would just have other software that would I would advertise and stuff like that that's what I feel like in terms of ads on the internet these days is that that it's it's it's something that was pervasive everywhere but eventually we'll be transitioning to something else I know we're all getting subscription out of our ears now but um moving into a model where there might be subscription umbrellas where you get groups of subscriptions or something that's good idea because but it really is true that we were sold a lie that the internet was based on a lie that this stuff was all free it was never free right it was always expensive and somebody had to pay somewhere uh and so I think making it explicit and saying you know these podcasts aren't really free we were we were subsidizing them by selling your eyeballs to an Advertiser but now that that economy is faltering and that's what's going on with twit is that it's not just Twitter it's every podcast Network it's every it's everywhere it's it's also public broadcasting uh advertisers have stopped buying ads or if they are buying ads they're buying them where they know everything about you like Spotify and so we just don't have the revenue anymore and we have to go to the audience and say you know this thing that was formerly free was never free we were selling your eyeballs but now we have to charge you if you want us to keep doing it it's it's kind of the way of the world I'm sorry to say we we were lied to if you know the marketing funnel um the top of the funnel is exposure and awareness and so there the the LI is also to advertisers saying like get exposure by putting your brand here and then the the the issue I would say the preum prum about being an Advertiser on twit is that it's not at that level it's lower which means it's closer to the conversion at the end of The Funnel which means it's more valuable would you please go to work on our sales team because we need we need advertise here's the real problem agencies especially but advertisers to some degree also are impatient and and and not very subtle and so you can explain that to them they're less they're less impatient and more motivated by clicks yeah that's the metric that they're tracking that's right and so if if you abstract like their own specific kpis or whatever of what they're getting paid for and move closer to what actually works then it makes more sense to kind of move people down theun absolutely I wish they pay attention to the ROI of of our advertising but they they're not I don't they're not sophisticated enough it's too much work I don't know uh and also the agency model doesn't incent them to do that the a model and sense them to to spend as much of your ad dollar as possible so they get the largest commission possible and the reason why Christine and I are both are in developer relations is because that's why um to that's that's why we do what we do because we're embedded with the community right we we we talk to people we gain their trust um by being genuine being authentic being transparent people know when they talk to us that we are not going to be just making stuff up or only can yeah it's the only way you can do itre it's the only way we sell the way we at this point we don't have a sales team anymore it's all Lisa our CEO but she will tell people no she will say look I'm not we're not going to work for you let's discuss your marketing strategy let's talk about how this works she's very big on that but unfortunately very few agencies have the time or inclination to sit and listen they just go you know what's your CPM and when can you start yeah people are not going to be easy to get to we're getting harder to find we're getting harder to figure out who is the the good alignment and so specialized Industries like what Kena does and what I do um and then Alex he's making his own brand and so he's building an audience this this is where we're moving to this is going to be where I think you were you're ahead of the game but I think the the whole world is going to be catching up to that and I think it's going to be better because I I think that the incentives around advertising BAS businesses always end up eating themselves and we were talking about the the crapp ification of Google search and a big component of that is the movement of ads from the right rail to the top and then to look more and more like search results and then more and more of them and so now when you go to Google you get like did you mean to ask this a question you didn't want to ask and then also here's 17 ads congratulations there's your search result if you pay for something it can be better and so I think probably if enough people um are willing to step up for twit but and they have a subscription base that'll make for a more stable in time and therefore better service and I think that you know the thing I was working out tech rench for a long time techwrench plus that is no longer with us rip um was the same the same goal like get away from the incentives of like farming attention and trying to drive the max audience possible I mean there's a reason why the New York Times is what it is today and Mashable is not the trick is pay for things means you have money the trick is to survive that through that transition right which is not easy not easy so many are not and uh including rocket right uh which is no you're missed greatly missed no I mean totally and and and you know we ended that for a number of reasons but definitely the the ad Market slow down was was a real part of it right it made us have to do more and more to make sure that we were going to be giving our listeners who did you know pay for a subscription what they were wanting but yeah you just some just have to call it and and and we did um no but you're exactly right find making through that transition period is difficult I mean one of the in retrospect very smart things the Wall Street Journal did uh you know they they've made their their pay wall more and less porous over the years they never went free-for-all it was always a paid product and they were online early like they were online early early early like I had an online subscription when I was in Middle School um and so my my aunt and uncle got me for my birthday or Christmas or something because yeah cuz I was that kind of child they wanted to be a stock broker no I asked for it wow so yeah I mean I don't know what I know exactly what that says about me but yeah I was reading I was having uh uh issues of punch magazine shipped to me overseas it would take like three months to get to me when I was a kid I don't know what that says about me either that was the British satire magazine well we're doing this story I had a bunch of annual reports delivered to my parents because in the Wall Street Journal there was a little thing like a little um pamphlet you could check the boxes for the compies where the reports from I just checked all the industry boxes and like several hundred pounds of annual reports came mom and dad must have been buy and I was like so much I'm going to read Bank earnings and they were like our son sucks Wesley what did you do as a kid played Nintendo ands guess yeah you're you're yeah you're you're the smart one out of all of us um you had friends you I was exactly I was going to say you had friends me it was like I had a subscription to variety and Wall Street Journal wow vary in the Wall Street Journal wow I watch a lot of PBS oh there you go all right that's good got four channels man I watch Gilligan island so that tells you something uh let's take a little break more to come and we have to talk about the rabbit cuz you actually own one Christina the R1 I will go grab it Go grabb your rabbit that sounds filthy while I talk about Christina is gonna grab her rabbit while we talk about our sponsor uh this episode of This Week in Tech brought to you by bit warten now this is a sponsor I love and I can get behind I love bit warten the open-source password manager that offers a costeffective solution that can dramatically increase your chances of staying safe online and bit Warden is fantastic I've used it oh gosh now a couple of years uh it was easy to move to and it gets better all the time it's one of advantages of being open source for instance uh one of our listeners on security Now quen wrote a couple of uh plugins for bit Warden to replace pbkdf2 which is kind of unreliable argon 2 and scrypt uh after analysis because remember they're open source they they accept poll requests after some analysis he and bit Warden decided to implement argon 2 and now that's an available choice for bit Warden users meaning you can have memory hard password hashing much better than any other tool thanks to being open source they also just announced that they are now officially supporting pass Keys they've supported pass keys for a while but this is on browser extensions and mobile devices which I really like you know github's a perfect example of the best possible implementation of pass keys well now when I go to GitHub I can click the button and instead of entering a password my pass key pops up from bit Warden I log in securely effectively and it's there it's on every device iOS on Android it's in uh open beta on Android Mac and windows 2 I think this is fantastic World password day was earlier this month bit Warden surveyed 2400 individuals from the US UK Australia France Germany and Japan and found out some interesting things for instance 31% of us respondents reuse passwords across sites we know how dangerous that is 42% incorporate personal information like your birthday your dog's name your middle name your mother's maiden name both of which raise real concerns about password security and strength 58% of respondents continue to use their memory 58% you know what that tells me if you if you're trying to remember passwords you're not reusing passwords 34% continue to use pen and paper for password management at work you know what that means Post-it notes on the on the monitor nearly a quarter of respondents view their workplace security habits as risky they know 45% store passwords insecurely 44% use weak credentials there really is a lot of risk if you've got a business in letting your users do their own thing you need need bit Warden bit Warden empowers Enterprises developers and individuals to store and share sensitive data safely by the way for developers bit warden's secret tool is so great because instead of storing your your your your secrets your AWS credentials and then accidentally pushing it up to GitHub you can store it in bit warden so it's not available to anybody but it still works you still have access to it things like that transparent open-source approach to password management what is what really makes bit Warden fantastic easy to use Easy to extend easy to use robust security practices this is what you need for your business and as an individual it's what you need too now I know everybody listens to this show is already using a password manager because of course you're smart you know it if you're not bit Warden and and and tell your friends and family bit Warden because it's open source it's free forever uh for individuals so that mean that's a huge that means you can have unlimited passwords pass Keys you can use Hardware security devices if you want free forever they also have a great free trial for teams or Enterprises or of course as an individual get started for free across all devices I think bit Warden is the only way to go bit wen.com twit it's the one I use the one I recommend bit wen.com twit we thank them so much for their support and for making a great product we really appreciate it thank you bit Warden all right let me see see your R1 show us your rabbit Christina all right this is the rabbit R1 um it is currently I don't know if it's either charging or it's doing something so uh because the the battery on it was was dead because shocker I haven't used it in a long time yeah this this is the device also there's no really way there's no real way to turn it off so it's kind of like airpods Max where they just it's like oh it'll go into low power mode I'm like you liar so now it's at like 7% and I don't know if it's doing an update or if it's doing a charge I'm not sure what is it this is the device so like a rabbit on a wheel it's cute it is cute teenage engineering designed Emily Shepard decided to do a little search on the folks behind rabbit uh Ed zitan wrote it up in his on his blog where's your Ed at rabbit hold is the name of his HED is the the name of his piece and then coffeezilla also made a YouTube video the YouTube video has the most um of course sensationalistic headline $30 million AI is hiding a scam I don't know if it's a scam but the company that makes it in November 2021 raised $6 million for a Next Generation nft project called gamma um a decentralized organization that is sending 10K crew members into space to complete energy harness ing missions Across the Universe it's not sci-fi they actually they actually were trying to raise money by settling an nft holding a gamma nft would Grant you exclusive membership to the gamma space station wow including other perks like staking opportunities tickets to gamma Studios limited edition merch and Live Events well obviously uh this was a scam it's scam too harsh it was um no no no no no look I'm not going to call the rabbit a scam because I have one I will call the nft thing a scam yeah that I think feels fa the same person who did this the CEO of gamma was and is a guy named Jesse Leu he's the co-founder of rabbit he's also on the board by the way at teenage engineering I don't does this tarnish the rabbit we've also learned that the rabbit really is just an Android device running an Android app that the AI involved is chat GPT 3.5 and then every time you try to use it to do anything it seems to fail have you ever been able to get an Uber with your rabbit oh I would never I would never input my Uber credentials into the rabbit no here's the thing that honestly is my my bigger concern with rabbit so it's fine in terms of if you and I think it's updated the models because it uses perplexity under the hood um and perplexity is an open AI partner so it's using the open AI API so you can have access to whatever model it wants to give you access to um so asking it general questions that's okay the thing is with the uer and the door Dash and the Spotify stuff how that works and this this was not properly explained or if it was I didn't pay attention until I got it is that what they have you do is is when you go to this like whole do rabbit. Tech thing and rabbit hole is is a cute is a cute thing they're like okay log into these services to connect your accounts well I go to log into the services and I noticed I'm like huh I'm on my retina MacBook Pro and and this this text doesn't look super retina SPS off also why is my password manager not autofilling my Spotify credentials oh well it turns out I'm not actually loging into a Spotify login um you know through an ooth connector as I would expect but instead um they've hidden a uh a VM using a a web VNC client so I'm actually logging into some random computer in the cloud with my credentials and that's how it's giving it access to my things right and and then security people were able to pop some of uh some of those containers not the ones where you log in apparently with your credentials but they were able to log into some of the ones I guess where it's supposed to be doing The Ordering of the Uber or the door Dash or what have you and um and that that makes me pause very much goes okay um I don't know how secure your Cloud stuff is and and I am going to guess that you have not spent a lot of money on on security because you did this thing in six months so of course you haven't uh but I uh no they're not getting my Uber credentials there's no way I would even attempt to order an Uber with it they have made or raised $30 million to make the device 60 sorry uh they sold quite a few what a million of them they sold a lot of them right they sold a lot they sold a lot cuz I was in the very first batch so like I got mine I didn't get mine as quickly as the people who and I'm at 16% I don't know if that means charging or if that's what they're downloading update I don't know um I got I didn't get mine as fast as the people who were at like the launch event in New York but I got it within a couple of days of that um and um and I was in the first bash but they have many many more bashes of people they were I tried to order it and I'm so glad that when I tried to order it it was in the first round and they the the site didn't work yeah thank God I never tried again oh my God yeah no I I I was able to get mine and and and I got a year perplexity Prof for free out of it which is so you can't really complain because that's normally $20 a month that's 240 bucks I'm saying that's more than you pay right correct I'm so I'm I'm got a deal I've Justified it I've Justified myself plus I get like a a toy from my like my my graveyard collection of tech right like this is going to be that saves me from having to buy it um later right um but for people who really thought that it was going to be exactly what it showed off or didn't understand you know like the the nature of these sorts of projects I can understand how they feel misled what's concerning to me and and some of this is anecdotal but some of this is actually based on real stuff is that I know at least as of 10 days ago if you canceled your order they would refund people fairly quickly uh but a friend of mine she ordered one and she tried to cancel her order and there's been no response and there have been anecdotal reports that I've seen on Reddit that they're not really being responsive to the to the order cancellations now um I can't speak to any of that I can't speak to my personal friend who you know when Ashley told me oh yeah I emailed them to canceled haven't heard anything that that makes me a little bit more concerned um maybe they've had more cancellations than they than they expected I don't know um but yeah I mean it's not a scam but it's also not not what it was sold as look back to our comments about Ai and Trust how important it is here's an example again of something coming out that's not quite in a way this is too bad and I think the Google failings with the the AI overview is too bad a lot of this because I think there is real promise maybe I'm wrong but I think there is real promise with AI I think we've already seen some amazing uses of it I think that potentially AI could be amazing for human beings in so many ways uh it's very easy we've seen it happen before to fall into an AI winter where people throw up their hands give up and move on and I would hate to see these scams and failures chase people away from AI because I think the potential is so great so isn't there a risk uh with all of this that that we are going to scare people away from something that is potentially very good I don't think so I think people will just come back when they feel like it work when there's something oh by the way how do I sound we lost internet there's a severe thunderstorms here and my phone no you're you're breaking up a little bit I saw you dropped off so your power's out right now we have power lost internet just the internet that's interesting so I will talk slowly just to make sure that I all the packets arrive thank you yes so when people feel that it's cooked then they can feel that they can come back to it I think no matter what you can avoid AI it will be sprinkled through all of whatever Tech the internet's made a choice or I think people will just wait the tech sector made a choice yeah all right good I hope that's true Elon says AI is gonna take all our jobs though so that's fine I I hope he's right you know what I want to do I want to wake up all day and do art uh that's what I want to do he's uh he was speaking at a pet Tech Conference in Paris vivatech 2024 uh he says probably none of us will have a job he didn't give us a time frame if you want to do a job that's kind of like a hobby says Elon you can do a job but otherwise Ai and the robots will provide any goods and services that you want now okay so I don't work so I have no money he says oh well there needs to be a universal High income not to be confused with universal basic income I don't know where this money comes from right where does this money come from is it all just self- perpetuating he's not alone I just saw somebody else say that uh in the next year 50% of all jobs will disappear in the next year well let me see if I can find uh find that story I think it was that seems awfully optimistic yeah in 2025 that's almost next year I think that's next year uh 50% of all jobs will disappear uh let me see who said this Elon Musk probably right was somebody it was somebody I thought was fairly in intelligent that'll make him happy because then he won't have to hire um people just to lay them off yeah that's really what Elon wants he doesn't Elon doesn't want people some say I'm sure the Google search would give a good answer that's the problem I can't seem to find this article that I just read I should have uh I should have booked you need recall yeah gold maybe it's oh maybe it's Goldman Sachs Goldman Sachs predicts 300 million jobs will be lost or degraded by artificial intelligence this was last year so it hasn't happened in a year I don't know that's how many people they want to lay off yeah they 300 million they wish they could look how much money look at how look at how much money we'll save if we can just lay off all these people they'll never forget they'll never mind about the fact that that means no one will be able to buy your goods or services that you're selling but but just think the pure profit potential if we just get rid of all these pesky employees so I want to I want to go back to the the Elon quote and the idea about jobs as Hobbies there's a an author named um a Palmer which is actually one of the reasons why the name a came back into my life and it's one of the reasons why my daughter's named a oh um she wrote a book series called Tera ignata ignota and in this series if I remember in correctly there are people called bers who are big on having a vocation this is a post scarcity Society in some ways and so these are people that like to do a lot more work than they're required to by Society because they find it to be personally fulfilling and so there's a lot of Science Fiction out through that already digs into this question yeah but in the case of of aah Palmer it's 2454 it's not next year I'm Leo I'm not going to lie I have never looked at Goldman Sachs as the next Oracle of Deli okay you're right you're right if it happens they can't even figure out where interest rat are going but you actually it isn't unreasonable to wonder what's going to happen um over the next 10 let's say 10 years not one year but over the next 10 years with AI and jobs um isn't it the case that AI could do a lot of these jobs right yes yes even our jobs go back go back to my P's time at a company called ch go ahead at a at a company called I think it was ch2m Hill when he worked there they had like a typing pool and they had people that were paid to like help with the production of documents all of those jobs were absorbed into word processors computers and so forth and so I think we're going to see not the elimination of jobs but instead people's productivity in certain areas be greatly increased limiting the need for human inputs for those jobs and thereby reducing the total number of slots needed to get the same amount of work done so AI is going to enh humans and replace some jobs but it not replace humans I think entirely so that's that's the way I see things going but it probably not the pace people are are hoping if they're counting EPS more than the quality of human life well here's the good news if AI takes our jobs at least we'll have more time to game um I think I'm going to change the subject now from AI you're all way I'm back online oh good I'm back online yes the internet supposed to survive thunderstorms I thought but maybe I'm wrong yeah especially Fiverr it's underground yeah what the heck um are you a gamer Wesley I know that the these two are I'm a cell phone gamer I'm a Casual Gamer doesn't count and yeah and Alex is not gonna be a gamer anymore uh he's gonna has two kids he's got two kids how does he find time he's he's talking about buying another a second game and he's running his own B and he's running his own business I mean come on you will have time I have solved the problem that you are describing which is entitled not getting enough sleep that's my solution the children go to bed well the baby one right now goes to bed the spouse goes to bed I put the dogs to bed and then from that moment on until midnight is Alex time oh and what are you playing these days oh Leo what a lovely question thank you for asking me there is an amazing game called Dyson Sphere program made by a group of folks over in China called I think like youth cat Studio or something it is a factory automation game in which you build these awesome multi like um solar system factories and it is insanely good I have a hook line is it like factorio or one of those kind of it's Factoria with better graphics yeah I would say much better quality of life and also much more like going around the universe and doing stuff it's it's I guys this game is amazing it's cheap play it it's so good it's on Steam uh and and the reviews are overwhelming go ahead I was gonna say can I play this on my steam deck uh I wouldn't because you build eventually you build like multiple Dyson spheres and you're flying around it does get eventually need a big screen yeah yeah I think but I use that on another thing too okay try no I'll play it on my gaming PC that's fine I was just asking because I I do like to when I can play on my steam deck I I I prefer to do that if I can I thought Christina you might be an animal animal well fan have you played that yet this is of claimed by many to be the game of the year I it's got very difficult puzzles you know I mean I'm into the aesthetic already though yeah it's an eight bit side scroller uh but it's got uh interesting uh puzzles difficult puzzles anyway I was just wondering I I've been reading a lot of about that I always look for recommendations for uh things to do from you Christina shows to watch I've been watching uh I have to say I just watched two episodes of Ripley last night on Netflix that is the most beautiful black and white it's beautiful it's beautiful very pretty um it reminds me of a Hitchcock in the sense that there's a lot of it does ominous feeling but so far nothing ominous has happened well I'm I'm a massive fan of the tent yeah The Talented Mr and that's what that's so so for me like I I have mixed feelings about the Netflix adaptation but I for me it got better as it got along I actually kind of going back to sort of going back to gaming best TV show I've seen this year genuinely is fallout Fallout yeah yeah pretty amazing yeah yeah uh a jury has handed Bungie as a landmark victory uh cheating software the jury decided violates copyrights now it's not a massive T sum they they awarded Bungie $63,000 they found that Phoenix digital which owns the cheat mod site aim junkies is guilty of violating copyrights by creating cheats for Destiny 2 and awarded them um $63,000 not enough probably to stop other companies from doing this but this is the first time dmca has been used to protect a video game from cheats I'm torn about this one same yeah I don't uh you like feels no I like Destiny 2 I've played a lot of that I used to have a whole crew that I played with we would get stomped by people who are actually good right or by people who are using cheats well now I'm now I'm kind of thinking about why we were getting owned so hard but I I'll just say that it doesn't feel like an a proper application of copyright law yes yeah it's the dmca which is the problem exactly yeah right yeah because my thought on this is like on the one hand I'm actually like I think that the cheats and things like this when they're used in online play actually really distract from the experience for everyone if you want to do it on your own and if it's like your own local thing I don't care right like mod mod to your heart's content I'm actually very Pro game modding again going back to Fallout right like that's that I think I love I love game mods but I think when it starts to interfere like with online play especially something like Destiny not not a fan having said that like like you I don't know like the dmca seems like a weird use case for this and I'm not super comfortable with having this being like Oh well this is a copyright thing like it just it I don't like it right because it sounds like it would actually make modding illegal and possibly legally uh dangerous and financially dangerous which is dumb because game mods as you said are are fantastic and anyone who's played a game and modded it knows why right or even Counter Strike without you know halflife there is no Counterstrike without mods or like mods for balers Gate 3 or Crusader Kings or whatever you know I mean in in many cases those mods like give the games life and and give them far broader communities and bring people into them and and can sell more copies frankly than what you would have otherwise because a lot of times the modders fix stuff that the developers who don't have time because they've moved on to another project or because you know it's difficult for them to do it like they can fix stuff that other people can't they could also get around IP so for example in Crusader Kings 3 there is a uh Game of Thrones mod that Paradox games could never make because they would never be able to afford it the people who are making that as a as a fan based uh like literally full rebuild of the game have made something that is that is ludicrously fantastic Anthony NE asks in our Discord if this could be used against emulators as well I guess it could that we are in a golden age of emulators now that Apple's allowing emulators on iOS finally yeah this is huge well the emulator case law is pretty settled um there's bleam yeah yeah there there were two lawsuit there's bleam and there was virtual disc station they were both PlayStation U mods one was for uh PC one was for U Mac and in both cases Sony lost pretty resolutely um now the lawsuit still bankrupted both of those companies but the but the case law for emulation is is pretty solid now the the where people get into problems is how you distribute ROMs and other things but the emulation itself is is I think a pretty s did you see how uh did you see the co-pilot Microsoft Minecraft demo uh surface or you were probably busy preparing for a bu I was busy so I I I know I I I saw I saw like I guess in the Highlight like that's certainly is like a what an interesting use of AI I mean talking about getting the young people comfortable with AI you can use AI to help you in Minecraft to show you a digital assistant that could show you give you tips show you how to build great use case honestly yeah it works if it works that that actually could be I mean because how often times many of us when we're playing any of our games you know we have like a browser next to us and we're typing things in we're going through YouTube videos maybe it's just maybe I'm just bad at games fair but like you know we're like walking through the walkthroughs and we like trying to figure things out if I could get that while I'm doing the game yeah you know how I know it's not just you there was a huge market for those game walkr when there were books remember You' buy the game and the book yes CU otherwise I had them they were great yeah this is why I have my iMac next to my gaming PC so that way I have a separate machine so when I get to a puzzle in a game and I because I have children I don't have a lot of time by way an excellent use for your $5,000 truly iPad Pro we've sold you're absolutely not even wrong this is what it is the SP spend $3,000 on your iPad Pro so you can like get walk through I keep the valheim wiki open at all times as I'm playing absolutely because you couldn't use a Fire tablet that costs $4 to do the same thing no you need the M4 chip all right we are going to take a break and then it's time for rips actually one more gaming story that I think is kind of interesting nostalgically Atari is buying in television ending the longest running gaming platform Feud of all time uh you had an Atari or you had it in television now Atari which is by the way done very well with Nostalgia keeping keeping uh Nostalgia alive uh uniting atarian at television after 45 years ends the longest running console war in history I guess because it was probably had to be the original one right like yeah you had a 2600 you had an intevision yeah in 1979 Mattel released the in television which competed directly against atari's 2600 uh in television sold an estimated 5 million units all told I think it's probably safe to say that uh Atari won that Atari W yeah um my my my dad had well I think we had both but we had an in television I remember you know it came out before I was born and so my the first console I remember is is the original Nintendo but when I was in third grade I in some closet buried someplace I found the int television box wow I was like what is this thing wow and then then I I I couldn't get it connected because it didn't have like an RF cable or anything I think I did eventually find a way to get it connected to a TV and my dad used to Rave about how great the football game on it was and I was like I don't know what you're talking about because I have a super to know now and and I I I I don't know why why you were so obsessed with this thing but he loved his in television that's so funny all right let's take a little break and then we're going to talk about uh the well I guess this would have fit into the end of the line for some some history and technology in just a little bit but first a word from our sponsor the beginning uh of the line for a great customer experience I'm talking about in touch CX customer experience has changed dramatically thanks to modern tools and in touch CX can do it they know that a major goal of your company is to give your customers an excellent customer experience right in touch CX works with some of the biggest brands around the world to apply Ai and smart automation to optimize the customer experience to make it better for your customers and better for you for every touch point across the entire customer journey to provide a great customer experience companies have to depend on a combination of talented people we're not dealing the people out efficient processes and the latest Innovative technology Quality Service only happens when you have the right mix of these things working together unfortunately most companies provide poor customer service not because they don't have great team but because they're dealing with outdated complex systems the team doesn't have the tools they need that makes it hard to meet customer needs and hard frankly to retain your customer service agents let's make customer interaction better customer interaction should be smooth for both sides for your customers and your company's agents that's why InTouch CX improves the experience for both the agent and your customers at every touch point of their journey and they do it using Innovative Ai and automation we don't deal the people out we just help them be better InTouch CX is an advisor you can rely on and Trust to elevate your customer and agent experience and to add Ai and automation at every every touch point you got to they have so many tools I can't cover it all in one ad but if you talk to the people that in touch CX as I did I think you'll be very very impressed whatever your company's size regardless of where your company is on its customer experience journey in touch CX can help here's what you do go to InTouch cex.com twit you can sign up for a free no obligation consultation they'll really talk with you about what your pain points are and what they can do to help and they will create a tailored customer support strategy for AI and smart automation customized for your specific business InTouch cex.com twit really great people who are transforming the customer experience globally InTouch cex.com twit we mentioned the end of the line for IQ that's coming up at end of next month uh Congress just uh made the end of the line for the Elon Musk jet tracker you may remember Jack Sweeney the uh college student University of Florida who created the Elon jet Twitter account in 2020 uh Elon always hated it he called it assassination coordinates right Shadow ban Sweeney then fully banned by the way he's back on X for some reason Taylor Swift constantly dogged by complaint about her incessant air travel watch this video which is hysterical this is Taylor has two private jets this is the year 2023 they're making some stops looks like Kansas City uh there in the middle I don't know uh all over the the the Jets are going on like crazy and the reason that we could do this is because the tail numbers are public are public knowledge right uh a lawyer for Swift served Jack Sweeney with a ceased and desist order earlier this year Elon as you know has been you know tried to buy it tried to do anything he could to stop it uh well Congress has intervened and now it's all over by the way a a rare bipartisan vote the first the amendment in the Federal Aviation Administration reauthorization bill passed last week allows private aircraft owners to anonymize their registration information the tail number will no longer be associated with your name uh the bill was signed into law on May 16th get this pass the Senate nothing passes the Senate 88 to4 this one did pass the house 387 to 26 there was unanimity practically God Bless America uh no more they're like absolutely they're like nobody can do this anymore even though and it's so funny like obviously this this kid popularize this but at least for Taylor Swift I don't know about anyone else this practice had been very common in in the fandom for quite a long time sure like there like no no no no like there were tumblers dedicated to this like for a decade um and it was gross and it was creepy and I always found it gross and creepy that said I was also like but it's legal and you know why why should your tail number be allowed to be private um I I there's a there's a part of me a cynical part that wers oh do the politicians just not want to have their Jets tracked oh yes partially that the Supreme Court for example and some billionaire friends but here's the thing if you don't want to be tracked don't fly private if you want to fly private right or or fly through Net Jets like like right or if you're a tailor and you have two Jets um and you fly around with them people might notice because we have an open database of this sort of thing right there was no problem here there were people making decisions inside of a market and I find it gross that the billionaires have complained and Congress has snapped to attention like private at the end of boot camp and gone okay Co is terrible absolutely right but if a cop kicks down my door and shoots me it's my fault correct correct yeah is my bank account lacks some zeros right right we we're not part of this and to be clear like I you know I've thought like the the Twitter account existing I I never had a problem with him kicking the kid off of Twitter I never had a problem with that right like I think that if you're saying I don't want people who share this sort of information that's my terms of service fine uh is it hypocritical if you talk about how much you care about Free Speech sure but like the whole thing with Elon Musk is hypocrisy uh but yeah I mean to me like these even though I I personally find some of these services and people who do some of this tracking stuff yeah can get kind of gross I'm like yeah but that's how the law works but not anymore not anymore because people got embarrassed privacy is a luxury item that's really basically the bottom line of all of this if you got the got the scratch you can be private privacy privacy for those who can afford it exactly Congress for those who can afford it it's the best Congress money can buy don't you knock it yes Spotify is going to break every car thing it ever sold I have one I'm so mad oh so the idea was tell us how this worked it was for your car there it is is that it it was for it was for your car yeah this is it it's not plugged in right now because um it's not but um because I don't have enough USBC things to power it so it was for your car I never used mine with my car I got it for $30 when or $20 when they were on uh um like I guess close out the idea would be you would plug it into your car it basically would just be a remote control that connects to your your iPhone or your Android and then have a great touchcreen on it that had a really nice little wheel that you could turn to control things and a really nice way of interfacing with Spotify now what I did with mine is I just connected it my computer and use a great way it was like a little Spotify radio for your computer correct oh that's cool right it was just a great like always on thing and what was great about it is the yes it might be paired to my phone but it could control wherever Spotify was playing so Spotify is playing out of my computer speakers fantastic I can see what's playing I can scroll to the next thing I don't have to bother with Spotify on my computer I've just got this great little toy but they're going to kill it and I'm so mad at them I'm so mad at them I know I only paid $30 for it but at least let us hack it like if you're going to do this then I don't know maybe this is what the EU should care about okay most people who bought it spent $9 on it that's how much the list was they only made it for a year they stopped producing it a year less than a year after it went on sale uh now two years later they're going to turn off the servers December 9th and that's it on your car thing and no refund and it's so dumb yeah no refund no and then what bothers me is it's like okay you I get it you don't want to continue supporting this fine can you at least I mean maybe maybe this should be a thing the EU should focus on right we're like oh we we we you know want to make sure that um there there's no unfair business practices well what about the unfair business practice of selling a device and then bricking it and then like just refusing to say oh well we're not going to give you any way of of hacking this did you ever own a chumby yes of course I did of course you did same thing happened to the chumby which was like a little uh hacky sack with a screen on it uh it was so dumb but you know what so dumb because they open sourced it somebody picked it up right the community came in the community came in they like we we will have your your stupid little widgets available forever and that would be great like why is Spotify bricking it that's the thing I'm I'm not clear oh well they're saying that they just don't want to maintain the stuff anymore and and it's all about like I guess solidifying their brand they have a new here's what I really think it is they just introduce a new font because they don't want to pay for the font licensing for the old font and I bet that they can't remotely update the hardware oh my God that is the lamest thing I've ever and I used to work this is just my theory this is just my theory I have no idea if it's really about the font that makes perfect sense but the font timing is the same thing so this is just my completely could be completely conspiratorial like I I could be sharing bad information but this is my pet Theory which is they were like yeah we don't have any way of we don't want to we don't want to update this to to use the font that we don't pay for licensing for anymore so infinite money for Joe Rogan right but not enough money to keep the hardware they sold you alive that was $90 I mean I didn't pay that but a lot of people did so just lame this new font is called Spotify mix I never I didn't understand now you've explained it why they why they had to have a font nobody else has their own personal font they were paying license fees yeah they're paying a license fees yeah so now what you could do in that case is you could just you know buy like perpetual yeah that's what we do on the twi website and we pay like 60 bucks a year or whatever to to use a special font yeah and and I don't know what the terms were on their particular font but I think that it was one of those where like because they have web apps and whatnot they were being charged for anyway so they they they created their own um and um I mean you know GitHub we have our own font what we did though which was great oh I I use the GitHub font I love the get font yeah you open sourced it anybody can use it any time it and are you talking about monospace cuz I use this in my I love monospace it's a gorgeous F yeah yeah Mona space and then we also have Mona Sands and um we also have like there there are a bunch of um options we have now but yeah the the GitHub fonts are are open source but it originally started it was a font that we' paid for and then we worked with that Foundry to open source it because we made some modifications and we were like okay we it's a great coding font it's monospaced it's got the ligatures I use it in emac and and in my terminal as well I really like mon yeah and it's got like many many many families it's a very uh uh uh flexible font yeah well maybe Spotify will release mix no they won't never no of course they won't sorry to talk over I I'm gonna call this out because I see this all the time they had layoffs and I can't help say this is probably tied to this as well they don't have the people to maintain the servers they don't have Focus to be able to push things that are considered experimental or considered taking a chance they they are just if if it's not AI That's the only thing that they're willing to to to to try to put any like specific focus on but but I think that they don't have the people that made this last month Daniel e admitted that the 1,200 people they lay off laid too many people off haed the company quote more than anticipated uh really they laid off this the kind of thing that happens yeah that's sad uh by the way a lot of those people got laid off because podcasts weren't making it which is weird because they pay Joe Rogan hundreds of millions of dollars a year call her daddy got uh I think 20 million a year for three years um I I think actually those shows probably do make money just not enough money to support entire yeah but they're non-exclusive now so so now they're trying audiobooks which they're also trying to not fully pay what I think is the reasonable market rate for corre I love Spotify I have been a Spotify user for so long but the company kind of just always sucks slightly more than I think it should I sound like a downer it's a great service well here's a bigger Downer the Doge has passed kabosu the side eying Sheba enu who inspired the Doge me passed away this week at the age a of 18 a there she is she inspired good girl yeah she was a very good girl uh her story is interesting she was turned into a pound along with dozens of her uh pound mates from a puppy mill which went out of business 19 she you know was sent to a Japanese dog shelter after the shut down out of a puppy mill she was adopted by a kindergarten teacher atsuko sat um to save her she took her home sat created a Blog I get the distinct feeling satu basically this is her whole family um and uh the rest is history you can actually still see uh the blog right here with pictures of cabosa a kabosu kabosu what a good what a good doggy 18 years old she'd been sick for some time uh 18's a a good good long life for a dog that's that's like very high end and how loved was this dog right I mean loves yeah tell you makes me want to get Sheba you know also the uh this inspiration for Dogecoin in fact I think Dogecoin had her picture on the Dogecoin and there are a few people who made some money on the on the Doge so I'm not one of them I for I didn't sell mine in time I was I was preoccupied well no because it happened right when the peak happened right when my nephew was born and I was so preoccupied with that um which uh that I that I didn't sell and um yeah anyway it is how much do you have still oh I don't know I think I have like five or $600 worth but what at one time was it worth thousands oh yeah one time it was worth thousands I mean look I I still for the most part I made made some money off of it but I but I would have made more I've lost like $300 didn't Father Robert make quite a bit of money he sold I think at the right time know he sold way early oh he sold too early a it's too bad he found more I think he made some money but the problem is he's not allowed to make money he's a Jesuit priest working at the Vatican whatever he makes has to go to the church so it doesn't really matter the church well how much how much do you have John how 20,000 Doge coins is that like a lot of money or is that like 4 cents John I'm not sure what the conver bucks not bad but probably worth tens of thousands at one time at the peak that was the that was the meme that Elon tanked right yeah y does twit does the twit Club take Doge do you guys take crypto for uh your thing we okay so there's a sad sad story there which was before the club we had a tip jar like everybody did back in the day and at one point about 15 years ago I said hey we should take Bitcoin so I started taking Bitcoin and have accumulated now 7.85 Bitcoin in the tip jar but at some point I forgot the password so Leo so I have roughly what is that $400,000 worth of bitcoin that I can't access so we stopped with the we stopped with the crypto we only take American dollars that that's amazing and it's also why I don't feel bad about having started to cover Bitcoin back when it was like $50 because one of two things would have happened if I had purchased some I would have sold it for 75 or I would have lost it and had zero but there's no way I would have managed to I it was like back in box days you know no it was well so so what would have happened to you would have been what happened to me which was I I first wrote about it when it was like $10 a coin or something and then I was first told that I had to if I ever for for the You Know M appearance of inoi you have you found it is there a password on there anywhere Wesley is there or is that just a lid that's the actual plastic tip J that we had in the studio fantastic fantastic there wasn't any Bitcoin in that so no don't feel bad c yeah don't feel bad six days ago M Alex May 22nd is Bitcoin Pizza day oh yeah this is the anniversary of the day of Florida man paid 10,000 Bitcoin for two pizzas it was the first Bitcoin transaction uh in 2010 it wasn't that long ago 14 years ago he uh arranged to get two Papa John's Pizzas for what would today be worth what is it $680 million something like that she that that hurts my soul it does it's like it's that hurts even more than like the fact that if you really want to be a be doubly depressed just think about how much inflation has has increased the the price of like Papa John's Pizza well honestly even even $2 is too much to pay for Papa joh pza you're not even remotely wrong but now two of them it's it's $45 minimum it's $45 and uh yeah so yeah I the problem with with everything that I deliver now to my house is that I always somehow spend like $100 to said delivery I don't know how everything became so expensive everything's $100 now just everything just everything it's $100 at least yes here is the uh the posting from 2010 this guy was celebrating I just wanted to report I successfully traded 10,000 Bitcoins for a pizza thanks Jericho congratulations llo a great milestone reached boy that age like milk oh boy well I mean look we all thought that it was going to be worth like a fraction of of a scent that was the whole thing so in his mind he's like hey who cares it took me 20 minutes to M this I might as well use this for for something No One's Gonna Be dumb enough to actually use this as currency people still don't because it has like I mean three transactions per month right correct because of because of how expensive it is to to do the the transactions and whatnot yeah gas fees if you want to use Bitcoin it's like mailing gold it's kind of inefficient and silly one uh final note uh one of the creators of the personal computer a man who made many computers uh mini computers for digital equipment Gordon Bell passed away this week at the age of 89 uh founded the computer mystery computer Museum a beautiful Computer History Museum down the peninsula some years ago yeah it's beautiful I interviewed him many years ago uh he because his wife Gwen who co-founded the museum with him uh had Alzheimer's he realized the importance of you know kind of remembering anything and I don't know if you met him in the day when he would wear a camera around his neck he uh that was recording every few seconds everything he did with the idea this is way ahead of his time with the idea of you know having some sort of repository of of everything that happened he didn't have the AI at the time to analyze it no he had the loness pen like he was doing the he had the limit L before it was round Total Recall yeah he called oh yeah right he called it uh the me Mema I can't remember what he had a name for it uh when I interviewed him he was wearing it um anyway the the late Gordon Bell was a great engineer uh uh research uh researcher he he worked at digital equipment became uh opened Microsoft's first research lab uh joined the Microsoft research silicon Valley lab in full-time in 1995 oh it was called my life bits a database designed to capture all of his life's information in a cloud-based digital database in 1995 damn look at you Gordon ahe of the curve yep I mean digital equipment is one of those companies like that most people don't know um because you know compact bought them and then whatnot but like they were really from what I have heard only after the fact but from what I understand um you would correct me if I'm wrong on this Leo but like they really were on the Forefront of lot absolutely they were first they were the vaxes the first Min computers uh they were that was huge um they call a data mation called him the Frank Lloyd wri of computers he was a computer architect at the very beginning of the U of the computer era Gordon Bell great man and I very much enjoyed interviewing him many years ago I think it's on in our triangulation somewhere oh cool that brings us to the close of a fascinating fun and I'm not surprised twit thanks to the great Christina Warren love talking to you every time we can get you on we will Christina is a senior developer Advocate at GitHub uh filmgirl filmgirl on all social networks and uh I was going to talk to you about she in and Teemu but we'll have to save that for another day save it for the next one great piece on big technology about how they snuck up on Amazon mostly interestingly uh t-u by buying ads in middle-sized markets not major markets huh yeah kind of an interesting clever strategy thank you Christine anything you want to plug anything you're up to these days no I mean you know um the GitHub YouTube channel um I I do uh content there um just about every week so youtube.com GitHub check that out um but um yeah good we love Christina it's always great to have you on thank you Christina thank you for having me youtube.com GitHub uh Mr Wesley fauler always a pleasure can't tell you who he works for but I can tell you he's at Wesley 83 on the Mastadon so so nice to have you on anything you want to plug your chickens anything I I have a shout out that I would like to say um so I'm on another podcast um one of the others is it's called Community pulse we talk about community and developer relations and um I was one of my co-hosts we had um he works for um another company I won't say but uh his name is Jason hand and he's a great guy and we were he was asking me like what am I doing this week and I was told him I was going to be on Twitter and he said if you get on twit please make sure you say Leo leaport you had a marketed effect on my journey through Tech nice you you you helped change my life you help like you were there since you know back in the day when you're on cable and he he felt like he had a kinship with you and um I wanted him he he he asked me if I would be willing to share that with you and I said of course I he's like and I I also want to like double down on that and saying like um being on the show is you know is huge bucket list check item for me but also um for those who um I think Jason represents is that you touch a lot of lives not just now but way back then in all the the the years um between and um wanted to make sure that you understand how much you mean not only to me but so to so many people out there that's so sweet well thank you I'm G to break down into tears you must work with him Christina because he's a I used to used to work with him actually yeah I used to work with Jason hand I worked with him for a number of years he's fantastic guy so shout out to Jason hand and also plus one to everything he said a golly makes me feel old Jason hi Jason and thank you Wes for the very kind words that's really you're welcome by the way when you were talking about um uh the person that died um Gordon Bell and I want to get to Gordon Bell I want to get to the age when when I die no one asks what I died of so that's oh yeah we didn't ask he was 89 89 pretty much obvious he died we were like we we were like congratulations that's that's a good run like the Sheena Ebu he had a good run you know yeah you don't say oh bu jumping oh is that a triangulation episode yeah it is yeah great Gordon Bell what a character and that you you can't see it but around his neck he's wearing that camera that records everything that happens in his life uh well thank you that was very nice of you I appreciate it Wesley it's really honestly I feel very privileged to get to be hang with people like you and Christina and uh Alex I am the lucky one I have a I have a very blessed life to get to know people like you in fact I thank Stacy every time I see her for introducing us I appreciate it Mr Alex Wilhelm who is caretaking my home my family home for me he's living out in the back it's very nice that you're doing that he has launched a brand new Enterprise and everybody I hope everybody listening to the show is now subscribed to cautious optimism. newws I know I have I was going to take Wesley's very kind words and turn them around and say rude things about you but since you since you started off with something lovely I feel like now like unth thankful we go back a long way long enough for you to have absolute scorn and disdain for me no what's interesting about just thinking about twit over the years is just how long I've been coming by and how consistent you've been Leo oh because I I've done podcasting for a while you've done podcasting for a while 20 years baby and it's hard to stay as on point as time goes on and somehow every time I come on twit you have good energy and that's not easy so 10 points to you thank you again and you have more hair than me so minus 10 points to you the key is surrounding yourself with great people not only the people on camera but the people behind the scenes Kevin King filling in for Bonito Gonzalez this week thank you Kevin our studio manager Jammer B and honestly the best thing about twit is the full community not just the people who are on our panels but all the people who watch and listen who participate with the show in our Discord or members of Club twit we really um the community is what it's all about and I feel totally blessed I uh from the days we did the screen savers uh we've been able to have a great community of Geeks and nerds and I've been able to participate in it and that is a blessing absolute blessing thank you I know it's Alex's time I don't I don't want to just but but Alex's my first twit Alex and I drove to Petaluma together and and then we connected and then and then Christina and I you know we we we we still like hang out every once in a while um I was uh Christina millanes at uh South South by Southwest as well Carolina Carolina Millan and then like Amy web I mean it just feels like it's your community that you built here Community it's amazing is it is super smart people who are really genuinely interesting and interested and what a blessing you all are thank you so right back at you okay except for you Alex that's totally reasonable I I I wouldn't hang out with me either so no I love you Alex in fact the next time I'm in Rhode Island I'm not I'm coming up knock on your door and taking you out just give me like a two-hour warning I will take you out to any restaurant in town and buy you lunch I just want to see the babies and Liza your beautiful wife you have a good life Alex in a very nice house yes we working on it thank you all for being here we love doing twit I am uh very lucky to be able to spend this time with you and thank you uh if you like the show please join the club that's what's going to keep this show on the air it's the only thing at this point that can keep this show going I know I'm ready are you twit.tv Club twit we do the show every Sunday afternoon 2: to 5:00 p.m. uh Pacific time that's 5:00 to 8:00 p.m. eastern time uh that is 2100 UTC you can watch us do it live on YouTube youtube.com/ twili for all of our shows that's where the live streams live uh of course Club T members get to watch not just during the show but before and after as well there's often some fun stuff before and after there was today um you can also get the show on the uh uh website at twit.tv there's a YouTube channel dedicated to this week in tech look at all that look at all the ways you can get it you can get it on Spotify you can get it on iTunes basically any podcast player you can find subscribe and that way you'll get it automatically of a Sunday evening just in time for your Monday morning commute thank you so much for letting me be part of your life for the last 20 years here's the 20 more another twit is in the can byby this is amazing the do the all right do the baby doing the all right do the

Channel: This Week in Tech

Views: 15,203

Keywords: TWiT, Technology, TechTV, Leo Laporte, This Week in Tech, tech news, talk, panel, discussion, Scarlett Johansson, openAI, chatgpt, gpt-4o, Sky Voice Mode, Chat Xi PT, microsoft copilot, copilot+ pcs, surface pro, Surface Laptop, NPU, microsoft recall, ICQ, Google, AI Overviews, rabbit r1, elon musk, bungie cheating jury, atari, intellivision, taylor swift jet, spotify car thing, kabosu shiba inu, doge meme, bitcoin, gordon bell

Id: -coQ-PTrDh8

Length: 178min 41sec (10721 seconds)

Published: Mon May 27 2024