Gods of Order and Antiwarp | Warhammer 40K Lore Theory

okay so this is one of those theories where I know it sounds completely insane but by the end of it I think you'll at least see where I'm coming from 90 of the time I have no idea what the I'm talking about now for those of you familiar with the channel no I'm no stranger to crackpot theories and this one is no different basically I predict the rising of a new Pantheon of gods that could rival the four powers of chaos the gods of order the three most obvious ones being of course the emperor himself Isha who is trapped in nurgle's garden and the Tau goddess talva who for those unaware has re-emerged in the lore in a big way in the book Shadow Sun the patient Hunter and can really no longer be ignored as a one-off plot Point as well as a few spitball theories about what could possibly constitute a fourth God you could really consider this a companion piece to my previous video talking about the astronomicon where I lay the basis for my theories about anti-warb and the gods of order but you don't really need to have seen it I'm gonna go over as much as I can without going too long now a quick aside before we get started I'm really sorry I've been late on the uploads my dad has been kicking my ass by just constantly disturbing me and not giving me any breathing room to work or record it's been stressing me the hell out I'm really sorry I'm late and as such I'm gonna be maybe a little less careful in how I record this you might hear a few cars in the background or maybe even the AC if you listen really carefully I am sorry so the structure of this video will go with me briefly explaining anti-warp then explaining what my ideas for the gods of order are and then giving a little bit of precedent in regards to what the gods of order were in Warhammer fantasy and a series that Warhammer fantasy took a lot of inspiration from Elric of melna Bonet in short I believe a lot of people will agree with me when I say the emperor has effectively ascended to godhood there's too many miracles and too much evidence to really properly refute it whether or not you believe he's a legitimate God doesn't really change things the emperor is now a God he even has his own realm in chaos the city of dust and his own demons the Legion of the Damned living saints that sort of thing and again I do have a video talking about the emperor's realm of chaos but basically we've received in multiple books mentions of a quote-unquote city of dust that I do believe to be the emperor's nascent realm of chaos but why that distinction why not just say hey the emperor is Humanity's God of chaos why give a distinction of God of order other than just he opposes the chaos Gods it's because of the existence of what I call anti-warp now for those who didn't see the previous video anti-warp Theory basically revolves around the fact that the astronomicon the beacon of psychic energy coming from Terror directed by the emperor has some very interesting effects when it comes into contact with the demon worlds in the eye of Terror namely it will Scorch them clean of life and on the ones that are not completely just burned to a crisp by it it will start summoning demons quote quote or angels as you might want to say that spill forth in a fiery torrent to do battle with whatever warp entities they come across it makes these demon worlds nearly impossible to inhabit because of the constant conflict from these psychic manifestations from the emperor furthermore the psychic presence and pain caused by the astronomic on two warp entities including angron in the arcs of omen really does seem like how psychers perceive incoming warp storms and are affected by them this all really gives way to an idea of something that is similar to The Warp but also opposite in certain ways now if anyone has a better name than anti-warp because that sounds stupid please put it in the comments I will give you credit next time I ever talk about this I promise now that's all well and good but when taking this Theory further to a possible idea of gods of order we have to consider the nature of the Gods themselves embodied by a certain belief or a certain set of Concepts and with the three candidates I'm gonna put forward we need to really consider what those would be also a quick aside it used to not be a viable Theory because hey the emperor is human he's Immortal he can't really become a God and the same way the gods of the warp are but as of the end in the death vol 1 we know that's not really true because Horus was on the very brink of ascending to becoming a fifth chaos God the dark King it's a big plot point in the book now with the Emperor as a god of order the god Emperor I think he as a deity would be almost analogous to corn in a way yet in that opposite aspect again similar yet opposite where corn represents violence bloodlust and just charging straight in to kill and kill the emperor represents directed violence and a slow-moving military apparatus he doesn't represent the honor and Glory needed in battle he represents fealty to a cause and giving yourself to that cause holy be it For Better or For Worse it could be bureaucracy or fighting in line in disciplined fashion both of them involving honor and battle and warriors but in different ways battle for the sake of Anarchy and battle for the sake of order I think this actually can best be seen in a lot of ways in the sisters of battle more so than the astartes that sheer power of Faith allows them to stop injuries or even regrow damaged limbs as well as consistently spurring the sisters on to Greater Feats in battle a lot of people actually don't know this but the Orcs actually like the sisters of battle because they view their ferocious Zeal as very similar to orc wag and furthermore just regrowing an arm or like re-pairing a damaged limb just through Power of Prayer in the middle of battle it's almost like a chaos mutation in a way but again the opposite anti-warp now there should be one thing noted if the emperor is going to be a god of order why isn't he a god already and with so many screaming quadrillions of people praising him every day why isn't he powerful enough to wipe the floor with the other chaos gods or at least send them packing right away that's because he is caught between both the physical and the immaterial realm and a lot of people say hey if his physical form was destroyed he would fully Ascend maybe not because you have to remember a lot of the worship of the emperor is tied to him as a physical entity everything he accomplished in the great Crusade his leading of the physical Imperium and the fact that people pray to him as he on the throne or he on Terra I feel like if that was gone it could really destroy the faith and kind of mess up any chance he has to properly Ascend but at the same time he can't really Ascend because of that hard physical anchor to the material realm it's kind of a catch-22 in a way honestly furthermore when talking about the Emperor as a god there's one thing you can't really gloss over anymore and it's something that makes all lorehounds just groan every time it gets brought up that being star child star child is back in the lore and for those who don't know it was an old old lore concept from the early 90s mentioned in the very first 40K novels it was the emperor's compassion that he forced out of his body when he slew Horus that was liable to be responsible for the rebirth of the emperor it was such a weird thing and I'm not surprised GW dropped it but it is back because after the psychic Awakening in the wake of the opening of the sikatrix maledictum people have been having visions of some like golden infant or some glowing child that they believed to be of the emperor and it's called Starchild all across Tau space they're dealing with uprisings of the quote-unquote cult of the Starchild and that being a more traditionally Imperial uh pro-emperer religious faction it just sort of serves as further proof of The Emperor's nature as a rising God this sending of visions that sort of thing there is also one more thing I want to mention in regard to the emperor and that being equating his nature to the Christian Trinity to my mind star child feels like God the Father in heaven or sort of in the warp and then the emperor on the throne is kind of like God the son you know Christ on the cross and the Holy Spirit who acts upon the world could be like the machine God you know that affects the machine spirits that are so important to the Imperium the next God of order candidate I want to talk about would be Isha and this one might be quick because simply put we don't have all that much information on her Whenever discussing the gods of the eldari one question always comes up were they purely psychic beings that had a bit of physical presence or were they both physical and psychic in nature it's hard to tell and furthermore we don't know if they were organically created by the eldari through the congealing and formation of psychic powers or if they were created deliberately as kind of like living psychic weapons during the war in heaven because we do know the aldari Mythos of the war in heaven is very skewed after all these millions of years for the gods of order Theory I'm just gonna say for argument's sake that Isha is a mostly psychic being and is held captive in the garden of nurgal now for those who don't know it is said that when the eldari fell nurgle stole away Isha while all the other gods died while most of the other gods and kept her in his garden using her as an eternal test dummy for whatever new plagues he concocts up because since he's a goddess of like life and healing she will regenerate and never die but what she does is gently whisper the cures of those plagues to people in the Mortal realm again we have very little to actually verify this but we're just gonna go with it for argument's sake I believe Isha as a god of order would be an equivalent to nurgle in a way where instead of Decay or life through the cycle of Destruction and then new life being born like fungus it's more life in the traditional sense and rather than sickness it's more so healing a deity of life except a more pure form as opposed to the more decayed and entropic form of nurgle the thing with that is I don't really know how much the eldari can worship or properly treat her like a God because they do have a lot of respect and reverence of course but they're not ones to just really worship worship certainly not in the same way the followers of chaos worship the four or the way most of the Imperium worships the emperor though one thing that should be noted is the greater eldari understanding of Humanity's power of Faith they're really starting to recognize it as a true force in the Galaxy whereas they just used to view it as ignorance we can see this Through The Eyes of Ilya natase when he was the attache of craft world oathway to Gilman during the plague Wars he deliberately States it as being Humanity's greatest strength and he says this in opposition to Gilman flatly denying any kind of divinity to him and let's be honest you need isn't happening the yanare thing that's not happening so if the eldari were gonna have a God that could possibly speak for them or try and protect them on mass I believe it would be Isha working as a goddess of life and despite the fact that Isha is so ancient as a deity she isn't very powerful because again she's trapped in nurgle's Garden normally she would be extremely powerful but much like the emperor she's held back by a very specific limitation as opposed to being able to run wild the third God of order and one that I think to be the most interesting because of how new it is and how much lore we've gotten is talva the nascent goddess of the Tau okay all things considered I should probably say like goddess of the greater good as opposed to God of the Tao because the Tau don't really have a God but it's more so the auxiliaries with Psych potential who have manifested this being due to their spiritualistic interpretation of the tenets of the greater good the first time this being was mentioned was in the book War of Secrets back in 2018 five years ago now in that book a Expedition from the fourth sphere of expansion I think gets caught in the warp while experimenting with proper faster than light warp drives something that would get them where they need to go a lot quicker than their previous method of just sort of skimming over the warp now the Tau Fleet while lost in the warp was beset by demons which immediately targeted human and auxiliary crew members because of their greater psychic presence in the warp than the Tau but they were saved by a being with multiple limbs that looked kind of Tau and kind of human and all sorts of things which led them out of the warp and whose presence caused the demons to reel and diminish immediately so sure strike being the leader he is decided that this entity needed to die immediately because it could possibly be a threat to the ethereal's base of power honestly I love that plot point I think surestrike is probably one of my favorite Tau characters because he's just such a piece of now for a long time people thought the Tau goddess was just a one-off plot point it was just for that one book and it wouldn't get brought up again because it was only mentioned once like five years ago but now that it's here again five years later in a completely different book in a large part I think it's safe to say Tau goddess is here to stay in the new book Shadow Sun the patient Hunter Shadow Sun herself is confronted by the fact that the Tau shrines people have made inside Hive cities is actually doing a lot to fend off the influence of nurgal and the death guard in the regions of tau's face that they are invading where before she had ordered them destroyed she now orders them preserved and in the end of the book we get to see the Tau goddess herself what happens at the end of the book is the death translates into the warp after having given the slip to the Tau Fleet that had been beating them after their Invasion eventually stalled out when they're in the warp they find themselves be calmed and the chaos lord of the group comments this is like that time when we were trapped in the warp before we were converted to plague Marines back during the heresy if you've read uh I think it's the buried dagger that's what happens in there and it is at that moment the Tau goddess appears before him he asks what it is and it says my name is the goddess talva it actually speaks to him what it looks like is a faceless entity that appears both human and Tau and has many limbs some of them crude some of them like ursine claws even has a few tentacles nice and other such things in its hand it has a myriad of things it has weapons it has like tools of knowledge like Scrolls and whatnot and it just has just pure light energy and some it's got that big Hindu vibe to it which I think is cool for those of you who don't know I actually am Hindu now the chaos Lord responds hey wait a minute no the tower Godless they're atheistic you can't be real but she replies the tower Godless but their allies are not and then closes her hands around the ship holding it in place as goalscore the chaos Lord loses his mind screaming yeah there's no ignoring that thing it literally just squashed a death guard Fleet then we cannot ignore that and furthermore it recognizes and States itself to be a goddess it states itself as such and I think that's really huge now what I see talva as being is kind of like analogous to zinch in a way it's a goddess of change in that the change that comes through not from scheming or manipulation but through development and evolution that's why it's got so many arms because of the incorporation and the forward Progressive thinking of the Tau Empire it's also got that generally chaotic hard to parse out form that you might expect from something zinchin and it causes goal score to go insane it induces Madness in other people as opposed to maybe just crushing it through raw power or what you might expect the Tau Empire is one that is going through a lot of change and has brought a lot of change to its small region of the Galaxy so I think it does kind of fit that talva would be like zinc it also Bears noting that shadow Sun herself has begun praying to the goddess talva she actively prays to it of her own volition and not just when she needs to in order to basically summon it to fight off the death guard when she's alone she just prays to it for thank so the religion of Tau and the Tau goddess are starting to find purchase among the Tau and while the Tau are very psychically weak they're not psychically unpresent it should be known that barsight and his people very very nearly fell to Corn during the Second Battle for Malek so there is something there now there's one thing I want to address with the three gods that I have just listed it's that all of them are diametrically opposed and are of their own Patron races Humanity the Eldar and the Tau don't really get along all that well well they shouldn't say Humanity I should say the Imperium they don't really get along all that well and I think that would actually be a really funny jux position where the gods of order would be opposed by their very nature while the gods of chaos would be the ones capable of putting up a unified front and I would never expect all the gods to join together and a new religion to form centered around the worship of all three of these Gods no that would never happen they would always be opposed and would always be separate in a way and it's something that would hold them back from chaos and stop them from ever truly beating it they would exist but they would always be weaker than the gods of chaos this is actually something that would carry over from the old gods of order that existed in Warhammer fantasy they were introduced in the first edition of Warhammer fantasy battles then were shelled for like two additions and then were basically reintroduced in the fourth edition while the gods of chaos embodied obviously chaos and change the gods of order or the gods of law as they were more commonly known represented as you might expect order and law and were diametrically opposed to the gods of chaos but that didn't necessarily make them the good guys because if the gods of order or law were to ever win the universe would sort of stagnate and come to a halt and their followers were very zealous in how they worshiped them and how they opposed other deities there's only a few people who still do worship them in the current setting as they're seen as these sort of diminished Gods because they actually lost the war war against the gods of chaos and are now just backbenchers as opposed to the more moderate Gods but those people who do worship them are like witch Hunters and really hardcore Fanatics as such they're viewed with suspicion and sort of looked down upon by people of say the cult of Sigmar or the cult of tal or what have you these gods of order were aluminous which was the master of light dalra who is a representation of knowledge arianka who is only really known for having been defeated by a chaos God and being imprisoned in like a crystal coffin oh kinda like Isha and sulkan who was quote the master of Vengeance an Angry God who inflicted retribution and the only god of law to be properly perceptible by humans and has a sizable following amongst certain human settlements within the current setting of Warhammer fantasy and is really favored by zealous witch Hunters now that sounds a lot like the god Emperor to me I don't know about you guys that that desire for vengeance those zealous followers that kind of Retribution that sort of you know Justice of the emperor sort of thing or Soul Khan you you get the idea it does feel sort of analogous also I think a luminous would be the emperor in a way because the emperor is often interpreted as a sort of sun deity or Star God in a way by a lot of local flavors of the Imperial cult and listen we can see the Sun and solar light Motif let's not kid ourselves so sulkan and the luminus would be the emperor aryanka would be Isha you know the one who's trapped and vanquished and dalra who is sort of enlightened and knowledgeable would be talva but there's another one Amma igran who was a god of law that the chaos touched race of the essagrani welcomed and worshiped but Amma would return and banish that race to the plane of chaos where they would suffer for eternity the reason Amma was able to do this is because he returned to them as Balo the jester of chaos before he banished them interesting huh and that leads into my theory of the fourth God of order being possibly kegarok and I know describing kagaraka's orderly is almost an oxymoron but the thing with that is we have this sort of precedent of a jester-like figure and yeah Balo is a little different because Balo is connected to elric's world and uh it's really confusing I tried to parse it out but the fact is there is this Jester thing mentioned when talking about the gods of order from old Warhammer and I think we can at least look into that a little bit now trickster gods are something that have been prevalent across a lot of Mythology and a lot of ancient religious pantheons from Loki all the way in the Norse pantheon to Krishna all the way in Hinduism and yes you can look that up he is our trickster God this is coupled with the fact that kagarak has been engaged in a long con plan to destroy slaanesh kagarak has been in that fight basically since the beginning that obviously combined with the fact that keg Rock was the only god of the eldari to get away from the cataclysm completely unscathed I do also have some other theories about what another fourth chaos God could be but none of them really feel analogous to slanesh one of them is possibly maybe the void Dragon becoming an avatar of the omnisaya or just a myriad of other possible things if you guys have your own ideas for what could constitute another God of order tell me in the comments below I'd really love to hear about that now a moment ago I mentioned Elric what that is in reference to is what Warhammer fantasy got a lot of its ideas from Elric of melna Bonet or the Michael morcock Universe it's sort of an expanded literary Universe across all of his works and it's weird and a little bit hard to grasp but very interesting though for what you need to know for this video he is the one who came up with Chaos and Order in the sense that we kind of see them in Warhammer you ever wonder why chaos in Warhammer uses that eight-pointed star despite their being for deities yeah that's from morcock while he doesn't have four deities necessarily that eight-pointed star is what he came up with as well as the fact that there are direct one-to-one connections of Michael morcock's extended Universe with Warhammer characters that even carry over almost directly he also has the gods of order or Lords of law in his settings and what they do is uphold the cosmic balance against chaos there needs to be equal measures of Chaos and Order they're called The Singularity and their symbol is one arrow pointing forward their scene is a little more benevolent but aren't necessarily the good guys now for this Theory I don't think we can take that much away especially since the large deviations that have taken place between 40K and fantasy as well as the many decades of years of separation between morcox Elric series and Warhammer but it still shows there is a baseline president for gods of order or forces of order and I think that's really interesting to speculate on and what must be noted in Warhammer and an ulrich's Multiverse the gods of order are always the weaker of the two and therefore need help from Mortal heroes in keeping the balance afloat again what we see with my 40K gods of order Theory but what do you guys think do you guys think I'm actually anywhere close with all this or do you think I'm just sort of talking out my ass here do you guys think it would be cool to introduce or do you guys think no it would be lame and just take away from the setting do you think these gods of order could ever really work together or would they always be diametrically opposed I'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below especially when it comes to Theory videos like these please let me know what you guys think and I'll see you in the next video hopefully the next video actually being soon but things have been rough lately I'm really sorry you guys I promise I'm gonna try to get back to uploading more regularly but the algorithm's actually kind of been screwing me because I can't monetize my channel for a few reasons and that means I don't get advertised as much or post as much by the algorithm because YouTube does not make as much money off me so that's really rough so share this video around it really does help me out and again I will see you in the next video

Channel: Live! From The Black Library

Views: 62,093

Keywords: warhammer40k, 40klore, imperiumofman, horusheresy, chaosspacemarines, chaos space marines, spacemarine, the emperor

Id: BTA2xThRwoQ

Length: 24min 41sec (1481 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 06 2023