- Hi. So Lacey, we are so happy to
have you here with us again. - I'm so happy, I'm happy. - Yes, we're so excited. I don't know how many of you were here when Lacy came and shared
with us at Girl Talk in the past, she had actually
just finished her book, The Reason, at that time, and that book, The Reason, your first book, was kind of really about how the Lord, your testimony, and how the Lord drew
you really to himself through a series of hard
circumstances, right? Some of these girls may not
have been there for that and before we dive into
your new book, The Mystery, and kind of the story that you have there, can you tell us a little
bit about your testimony and how, about that. - Yeah, well I talk a little
bit about how I grew up. My mom was a single mom. She had my brother at 15 and me at 16. And we struggled financially
and there was a time when there was six of
us and no father around. So we struggled a lot and
we had to depend on God to feed us sometimes. My mom would pay the
babysitter with the food stamps and then we'd have to figure
out what to do with the rent. And you know, she would
try to pay the rent and then she would have to
pay the inspection sticker and then get a ticket
'cause she couldn't pay that and it was just this cycle,
and we had to depend on God to know where to live
sometimes, where to eat, and so my mom would always say, she'd give the food stamps to some family she thought needed it more than we did. And I would be like, but
what about my Pringles or like the food, you know,
that was my favorite snack was getting to get that. What about, and she would
look at me and she'd go, God will feed us, and she
would get real mad at me, stop questioning me about this. And so like okay. And you know, we would,
and so I believed in God when I was little and then, you know, when I was 10 years old I had a cousin who was beaten to death by a stepfather, he was only three at the time, he was like a little brother to me because his mom was a teen
mom and she lived with us and he was the same age
as my little brother and they moved off to Houston and shortly after the
man that my aunt married beat my cousin to death. And I thought how could there be a God? So I decided there wasn't a God and I decided to stay sad in
honor of my cousin's death and taught myself I think
at 10 years old how to make a habit of sadness
or an addiction to sadness is what it turned into. And I became depressed and only hung out with people who were like
me and hated people too, and I just began to hate
people because unless you hate people because I just thought how could we be happy in a world where children get beat to death, something's wrong with you
or you're naive or whatever and I hated happy people, I
hated Christians, I hated God, people talking about God, 'cause I thought it's a broken chair. And so why would you
tell somebody sit in it? And so it just made me
angry and I was always a challenging loud mouth atheists, so. But you know, if somebody
told me something was a sin I was gonna do that 'cause
you're not gonna control me and then the truth is
God tells us what sin is so that we know what leads to death. And just like smoking, you
know, if somebody doesn't light up a cigarette and
then fall over and die, you know, it's like a long process of damaging yourself,
and that's what it is, it's death in your soul, and
sin leads to death in your soul so every day I'd wake up
feeling a little more dead and try to find life in something and it would just make me
more dead and more numb, and eventually I just
was tired of waking up and decided to commit suicide. And on the day I planned to commit suicide I had an encounter with God. I had an argument with my grandmother, ended up in a church,
and there was the man, a man speaking, I hated him
more than anybody in the room and started telling my story
like I was the only one there. And so I was like I gotta get out of here and my grandma's van was
parked in the front doors of the church. - You weren't going anywhere. - Yeah. So I sat through the
service really weirded out that he knew my life
somehow and at the end he begins to cry and I
was like, Christians cry? Why is this guy crying? It was really shocking. And he began to say, he cried
like somebody he knew was, like he was crying over
somebody that he loved, and he said there's a
suicidal spirit in the room. And I was like, I gotta get out of here. (audience laughs) - [Host] With the van, the van, the van wasn't gonna. - So, so he said please
come and let us pray for you 'cause God has a plan for your life and he doesn't want you to die tonight. And I was like there's no
way I'm going up there. And let me tell you something,
this is really important. The thing is pride will
steal your miracle, pride is a liar and a thief, okay? So I didn't go up there, but God, God had somebody who
didn't care about pride, go to the back of the door of the church where I was gonna leave, and say, I feel like God wants me to speak to you. I mean he could've been wrong, right? I mean how many times do you feel like God wants you to speak to somebody you don't because of pride or worry
about being embarrassed. And what's the worst that could happen? I'd be like well you're
weird, I'm leaving. But the guy did it. He said God wants me to speak to you and he began to tell me
God wants you to know that even though you never
knew an earthly father he'll be a better father to
you than any earthly father could ever be, and you've
been rehearsing your pain, there's been pain in your
life from your own sins and from the sins of others
against you in your family, and you, he said God has
seen you when you cry yourself to sleep at night. And did you know that Jesus
died for the sins of the world? So he can take all of the
consequence of sin on himself so we don't have to carry
it in our hearts anymore. Can I pray for you and ask Jesus to take the paint out of your heart? And I was like, okay, you
can try praying for me. (Lacey laughs) And so then he laid his
hands on my shoulder and began to pray and I
was in the presence of God and I had an encounter with God. - [Host] Wow, wow. - And knew there was a reason. - [Host] Amen, amen.
(audience applauds) And that's just a brief
part of Lacey's testimony and it's just powerful even in that, so I encourage you to pick
up her first book as well and read that. Lacey I read The Mystery
and you are such a gifted communicator, the way that you, the way that you
communicate, the way that you tell your story with such vulnerability and just rawness is really powerful. So it's almost like,
you know, when you wanna take someone by the cheeks
and you wanna tell them, you know, God is going to use your story to minister to someone
who's in this exact place later on in life, you know,
that's what he did with you. He's using your story in a
special way, a unique way, and it's powerful. So thank you for being vulnerable and open and sharing the work that
God has done in your life. In your book The Mystery you, you open up kind of telling us about
the reality of the absence of your father in your life
and you kind of introduce this ongoing theme in the book
about having an orphan heart, having an orphan mentality. You say that your father
missed the opportunity to love you in person and
you had never met him, and then you kind of go
on to say that his absence was significant, I didn't
realize it as a young girl, but it turns out that
it did matter to you. And I love how in your story you mentioned that it was a man that came to you and shared the love of
Christ with you, the Gospel, because you had built up this
wall against men in your life really because of all of your experiences. So can you explain to us a little bit about that orphan heart,
that orphan mentality. - Well I just wanna say really quick that I did have an amazing grandfather and that's one of the
things that we don't realize when we tell our stories
or are trying to show how good God has been. That there is, God has
been faithful to bring examples of his love into my life. But the ones that stuck out to me when I'm thinking of
all of the reasons why I didn't trust men weren't
anything to do with my grandpa or these, these particular men. So you know, a guy, a coach
at school or something that they really did shine. And so the ones the enemy
wants you to focus on when he's getting you
to distrust is the ones that hurt you and broke your heart. And so for me as in this
idea of an orphan mentality is not necessarily even
about not having a dad, it's about that your heavenly Father, and is there a heavenly Father or do we have to live like orphans? Do we have to strive to make
everything happen on our own or does he have a plan and a purpose that can move life into the
best for us when we yield to what he's doing? Do we have to save people
or is that God's job? Do we need somebody to save
us or is that God's job? And so often we like feel like, and this is what I went
through in the book, realizing I felt like I
could save this person and actually gave me this rush of thinking I have purpose, you know,
I'm gonna save this person. And it's so important,
nobody understands him, I'm the only one, and
so in the end I realized to try to be a savior for somebody and one of the things
I say a lot is only God has got enough to be God for somebody and it's too much weight for us to carry. So for us to be an
orphan mindset is saying there is no father to take care of this, only I, I have to be God,
I have to be the father, I have to be, I have
to, you know, that's... - [Host] Be self-sufficient
and do all those things that a father would do yourself. - Yeah.
- [Host] Yeah. - So fight for myself, decide
what's right and wrong, and save everybody around me. - [Host] Yeah, yeah. I didn't remember reading
this or hearing about this in your first book or in your
interview with Cathy earlier, but you were married at a young age at 19 and you share that in your book, and that marriage ended
pretty quickly, right? You wrote. And towards the end of your marriage you would cross paths with
someone at work, a man, a married man, and you began
to begin a relationship with him that really nearly
destroyed you really. Can you, can you share
a little about that and? - Yeah, well it's funny
because I wanna be sensitive in talking about these
things and I change a lot of the names and some of circumstances so that I can honor the people because I'm so free from any bitterness or any, I don't want, there's such
forgiveness with my heart about all of this, for my ex husband, I want the best for
him, and he's, you know, obviously I married him or you know, it was something good
and it was there like, and our, we were very
young and when we thought we knew what it meant
to commit in a covenant and I thought I would've said yes forever, I never thought I would've been divorced. Even somebody said to me when
they heard I was married at 19 oh that's not gonna last two years and I wanted to slap her. And then after it was
two years and we were going through a divorce and, and I just wanna honor
that because you know, so many times people go through things and maybe the reason why
they don't wanna share is 'cause they wanna
honor the other person or maybe, you know, I
remember judging people who been divorced and finding out later that this particular person
was a very well known in the Christian community where I was and she let everybody bash her because she didn't want to dishonor the fact that her husband was beating her and the fact that he was having an affair. And I thought when I
found that out later on I was like, oh my gosh, she's
so much more like righteous than I thought, than I
would even say, you know? So I'm trying to walk a line in the book to share what God did with something and then he tried to destroy me with. And so what I wanna say is that, you know, in my first marriage I
didn't understand covenant and I don't wanna say,
this is really important, that maybe you married the wrong person and maybe God has something else for you. Like that isn't, that is
a little rock in a shoe from the enemy that would
try to make something, 'cause the truth is the enemy wants to bring somebody
along when you're married that you can connect with
better than the person you're married to, but it's a facade. And that's the whole idea
is that in my first marriage I didn't feel like my needs emotionally or spiritually were being met, but I didn't realize it until this man asked me about being lonely. And then I was like well I am lonely. And then we began to connect
over both of us being lonely in our marriages. And that was a real important thing and it wasn't because we
needed to be romantically connected, but we needed to share the fact that we were lonely with somebody and it just so happens
the enemy brought us to talk to each other. - [Host] I love how
you say that, you know, you say that in your
book too that the enemy, the enemy brought that
relationship to meet an unmet need in your heart
and it nourished wounds, that relationship did,
and really it was a trick of the enemy, right,
the trick of the enemy that sending someone into your
life, an inappropriate person at an inappropriate time
to meet an unmet need in your life that eventually you go on to tell that only your
father could meet that need, your heavenly Father could meet that need. - [Lacey] Yeah. - In the midst of this
affair that had developed God had sent some voices
along because at this point you're walking, you know,
you were a Christian, right, when you were going
through this in your life. You were a Christian in the midst of this. - Yeah, and I would never
have thought I would end up in that place.
- [Host] Yeah. - I would've prob, like I
said, I was really like, oh how can you be a
Christian and be divorced and be remarried, and I
think it's a beautiful thing that God, every single thing
I've ever judged in my life he's brought me to that place
and pulled that judgment out for some reason. And it's not because we're allowed to look at the blood of Jesus and say,
we can do whatever we want. It's because he's so kind and merciful that we say God, I just
wanna love you back. I don't wanna, I don't
wanna ever do anything that would grieve your heart, you know? You didn't die for me
to sin, you died for me to overcome sin.
- [Host] Yeah. - So, so that's really
important I think too, but yeah. - [Host] Yeah. And in the midst of this, of this time of, this went on for quite a while, right? The Lord had sent kind
of warning signs to you. Do you remember any of those
or in the midst of this? - Well I thought that
I was helping this guy and I thought that he was
suicidal and depressed at times and he was a recovering addict, and he loved God, and
we talked about that, and some of the other people
in his life didn't understand and he needed somebody to understand, and so I thought I was following God, and we weren't sleeping together so I thought, oh it's,
you know, it's just God like leading us to maybe
one day we'll be together whenever it's right and
he's going through an exit in his marriage, which
actually wasn't true, I found out later. But the idea is that... (audience laughs) Is that funny?
(Lacey laughs softly) It's funny, if he's lying to somebody else he might be lying to you. - [Host] The enemy is sly, right? It happens, you said,
you said something key a little bit ago, you said
I never would've thought I would've been a Christian
and going through these things, you know, and after time
you probably look back like how did I end up here? - [Lacey] Absolutely. - How did I end up here? I would've thought I would've
been exempt from this because I made a change in my life, I stood in that foyer,
I confessed Jesus Christ as my savior, why am I
struggling with these things? And here you were, but
we're not exempt from sin and the enemy is, he's sneaky, right? - Well I think the Lord allows us because we make, like we just did in here, we're seeing oh love my
days, I wanna love you, and I done that and that
was exactly what I believed, and the enemy's like just
like he did with Tobe, he's like she's only
saying that because this hasn't happened. And it's so funny because
and I was like okay, let's see what she does,
'cause I believe her. Right? And then we can't know what we really mean until we test, it's tested. - [Host] Tested, yeah, right. - And it's not because God needs to know, it's because we need to
be genuine in what we say and know that our yes is
yes or no is no, like. And we don't even know
how much we need him until we're tested, that's the covenant is not for when everything is great, the covenant is for when things aren't and you have to make that choice
to continue when it's hard. - [Host] Right. - And you don't understand. - That's why it's so important, right, to be in fellowship with the Lord, to be in his word and to be praying and to put on our armor
because when those things come our way we have the word
of God to test that, you know, we have the Holy Spirit
inside of us convicting us. And you mention in your
book quite a few times that the Holy Spirit had
sent, you know, your roommate to come and say hey you know,
this relationship isn't right, and other people, hey, you
know, why are you talk, don't you know? And you were like no. - It's okay, we only
talked for like four hours. What's wrong with you? - Yeah, yeah. I'm helping, I'm helping, you know? - No, you don't understand,
we're talking about God. - [Host] And in the midst
of this sin, isn't it... (audience laughs) Yeah, exactly. And in the midst of this
sin it's, the enemy, you kind of, you're isolated, right? So you had no, you wouldn't allow really any accountability in, right? - Only when you're, and
I had several friends that stayed in my life that
said I just want you to be happy and there really like I
said, there was an unmet need that was causing a lot
of depression in my life and here it was in this
inappropriate way being met and my friends, some
of my friend were like, you know, I just want you to be happy. - [Host] Yeah. - And I'm like, thanks, let's hang out. - [Host] Yeah, those friends, yeah. And the friends that were trying to... - I'm like see, and the
friends that warned me I was like you don't understand,
you just don't understand, I can't share with his business,
you just don't understand, and really I pushed those
voices out I would say. - Pushed 'em out, yeah. I remember you said in your
book that one of those voices came to you at a time where you were, you were traveling with your band and you had seen somebody
else have like a band pastor and so you began thinking
I might need a band, you know, I think I want a band pastor, and the Lord had put someone on your heart that you had met a while
back, a youth pastor. - [Lacey] Was it Eric? - Yeah, Eric. Can you tell us a little bit about Eric? I love that story and just
the whole significance of him and his wife in your life, but. - Well Eric and Sarah were youth pastors and they had their own story
that's really phenomenal about their dating and
they had a lot of wisdom about just your heart,
and through their journey they learned about, you know,
we talk about sexual purity and we say we're not supposed to have sex until we get married. Well in my relationship
this emotional affair there was none of that involved, but it was, it was very, it was very, I remember one time Eric told me, you know Lace, and I'm
divorced, so just so you know, I'm not trying to say
this to anybody who is, I don't want any condemnation to feel, for you to feel in this,
but he says you know, people, so many people,
it's easy for so many people to get divorced because
they've been divorced so many times before
they ever get married. And I realized my divorce
was not nearly as painful as my first breakup. And the second breakup. You know, and I realized
it's about your heart. We marry in our hearts in a sense, like we, we cling and become one, even in friendships sometimes, I had, I have a friendship that
was just, the Lord was like, you need to step away from
this for a little while and it was like I was breaking
up with this person, like. It was really hard, every time they called I was like oh God, I wanna talk to them. - [Host] Yeah. - And the Lord would say I'm
taking care of their hearts right now so you need to stop away, and so those things are really hard because we, we just get
meshed and connected and then when it has to be separated it's like they're
ripping, and this is what he wants to keep us from. It's not about what our
bodies do on its own and oh he's trying to ruin
your fun and your pleasure, it's like this does something to your soul and God wants your soul
to be able to be connected and healthy and connected with him, and it just takes up space
there that's not meant to, so. - [Host] Right, that's why the Bible encourages us to guard our heart, right? Guard our heart, so, so important. I love that, even in the midst of this, you know, emotional
affair that you were in and you were traveling and
you, you sought out a mentor, even in the midst of that,
I feel like God put that, the Holy Spirit put that in your heart. You know, you were looking at this scene that was around you, this
kind of rowdy band scene and you were like how are
we gonna keep our faith in this scene? And I love that, can you, what
would you say to women here I know of all ages really
that are looking for someone maybe a little older or
maybe don't even know that they need someone
a little older in years or a little older in their
relationship with the Lord to kind of come alongside
of them and take them under their wing, how important is that? - Well if you believe in the Bible it says you're supposed to do that. Women are particularly. - [Host] That is true, yeah, definitely. - And there's that, but
then on a practical level the only way that you're gonna, this is the only way that I know that you can avoid deception. So deception is when you think
you're doing the right thing, but you're deceived. It's you think it's right, you don't, you're not lying, you are deceived, right? So this is what I was, I was deceived, I thought I was doing the right thing, I would've given my life for it. And it was a lie. And the only way to avoid
deception that I can see is if you put your trust
in somebody who loves you that has no ulterior
motive and will tell you what you don't wanna hear,
and you will just go, I don't see that, but okay. (audience laughs) - That's, that's such wisdom. (Lacey laughs) That's such wisdom right there. I wanna encourage you girls and myself to take advantage of that, you know? Praying that God would
provide someone for you or maybe God wants you to be
that person for someone else too, right, there's that's, you're right, that's exactly how God has
orchestrated in his word in Titus two, right? So good. In Eric's encouragement to
you as he was coming alongside of you and I think it may
have been your first time hearing from him as a band maybe and he sat down and he told
you kind of what his goal was gonna be with you guys as a band. And he said to you that
he wanted to kind of remove your orphan heart. And that was something
that you kind of already explained to us, but that
struck a chord with you, and that was kind of a
foreign concept to you, right? What do you mean and in
the chapter in your book you called the mystery of being deceived and you were just talking
about that deception. You talk about all the ways
that you had this misconception of love, you know, you
thought love was about saving and being saved, you
thought love was to idolize to deep points of
despair, you thought love was a mixture of extreme highs and lows, being addicted to the
adrenaline of the cycle, the love you were
experiencing was manipulative and ultimately destructive,
which all of those things are included in the things
that you have been sharing. And he kind of, he shared
that with you, right, that he wanted to work
on that with you guys, and did he share with
you what a father does, what did he tell you
about what a father does? - He said a father
corrects, provides, and... - [Host] Protect.
- Protects, right. Protects, provides, and corrects. And so it's interesting
because at first I was like, I just wanted a sermon, like
what are you talking about? Can't you just tell me
some like Bible story and make me wanna do the right thing? (audience laughs) And he was not a bout that,
he didn't not wanna be our pastor, he wanted
to remove the orphan, well he didn't want to,
I'm gonna say this because he considered God his
father and he was submitted to what God would lead him to do and he knew how to listen for God's voice and he had prayed and
been like, this is what the Lord's saying to say to them. - [Host] A key thing to
look for in a mentor, just that, he was listening
to God's voice, you know? That's essential when looking for someone to kind of take you under their wing or if you're going to take
someone under your wing. - Yeah, and so he, he said
to remove the orphan identity and to be, to represent
the father's heart to us. Not to be our pastor,
I mean, maybe pastors are supposed to do that,
I don't know, I think, but I was like aren't you just gonna like, we don't get to go to
church, can't you just like tell the story? Like what do you mean, like
how are you gonna hang out with us like and like,
what does that mean? And we learned, I
learned along the journey what that looks like, and it was different from what I expected. - Which is a gift that he gave you guys and awesome that you could be
on the receiving end of that. - [Lacey] So, so awesome.
- Yeah. Through your, through this while you're, this relationship is still
going on, Eric is in your life, and this relationship really
led to a near death experience, but also a breakthrough for you at a point where you kind
of had your second major intersect with suicidal thoughts. You mentioned some, you
mentioned an experience in your first book, but you say this time you were probably closer than ever. You said at that point though
which I wanna quote you, in your book you said, but
suicide didn't really make sense, for a Christian it spits
in the face of the God who made you and gave you another day for another reason you may or may not see. And Lacey I think part of
your story is so powerful because you can identify with the woman that is struggling with those thoughts, that depression, those
thoughts of maybe suicide and not only, you know,
you can identify with them, you can empathize with them,
but you can also speak truth into their lives, Biblical
truth into their lives. So what would you say to
someone who's maybe listening today that is struggling with that? - I just pray that God would hug you and then you would know he loves you. And... And that he can make
everything new if you let him. It's so true. And he wants to do that. We come before, we wanna
hide, and that's the thing that keeps us, he's not the God who says this is what, let me tell
you what the enemy's voice sounds like, he says do this,
do this, do this, do this, and then he says as soon as you do it, he says, how could you do that? You're worthless, why would you do that? Look at what you're
like, you're worthless, don't you dare think you
could ever talk to God. But what God says is look in my eyes, look in my face, I have
nothing but love for you, I want the best for
you, and I can turn this into something awesome if
you just look in my eyes. Come to the light, I see it anyway. Come into the light. And I can make it glorious
if you just let me. And so we wanna hide in the dark 'cause we're so, 'cause of this shame the enemy wants to put
on us, but guess what? Jesus hung naked bleeding and beaten, spit on and mocked on in
the middle of his city where he's gonna be king. He took our shame so you
don't have to carry shame. You come into the light
and let him speak his love over you and restoration. - [Host] Amen, amen. (audience applauds) Amen, and only he, only
he can do that, you know? And in the midst of that point I would say that you probably had hit rock bottom, I mean in your book you're
sitting in a hotel room and you are alone at this point and you are struggling
with these thoughts, and basically your friends Rob and Shilo came to visit you at that hotel and right? And really they were
God sends at that point. - [Lacey] They were actually Eric, Eric and Sarah's spiritual father... - [Host] Awesome.
- I would say. So he's like my spiritual granddad I guess you can call him. - [Host] Yeah, awesome. - But I wasn't talking to Eric anymore 'cause I had pushed him out of my life and so I was able to talk to Rob because he hadn't, he hadn't tried to convince me back I guess. Like Eric had and I was like
look, you don't understand, and so I was able to reach
out to Rob and he showed up. - [Host] And he came and he said basically that there's no
life in this relationship and right now you need
to give this to the Lord. And you had a tough decision
to make at that point so even though you were at rock bottom closer to suicide than you had ever been you were also closer to a breakthrough than you had ever been before, right? Only God can do that in the midst, do both of those things, I
mean he's just, so you came. - He always wants to do that. - Yeah, yeah. It came to a point where
you had to make a choice. - Yeah.
- [Host] Yeah. You said, this is a
quote out or your book, you said as the web tightened around me and began to choke the life out of me I remembered the one who had
ever gave me life was Christ. So when I cried out to
him in truth and sincerity he rescued me again like a loving father or a faithful husband full of forgiveness and reconciliation before a lost daughter or an adulterous bride. It's beautiful really
the way that the Lord rescued you in that moment. Do you remember the thoughts
that you were thinking at that time, what the Lord
was doing in your heart in those moments? - Well it was sort of supernatural. The way that... I'm just... I just think that, I just
wonder how many times we downplay his miracles. 'Cause it had to be for him to send the people to speak at the right time, for him to have people praying, and I don't talk about
this in the book because and just I didn't learn
it until after the book was written, but at that
time Eric and Sarah, after I pushed 'em out and in this time they had dropped their four
children off at their in-laws, at one of their parent's house, and they rented a hotel
room and they fasted and prayed for me for two days. - [Host] Wow, wow, those
are the kind of friends we need in our life, right? - And I had told Eric not to talk to me, that I wasn't gonna talk to
him 'cause he was speaking death over me, he was
speaking from the devil, that this was a bad situation, he said the bridge is
out in this relationship, turn around, and I was like that's death, you're speaking from the devil. So why would you pray for
somebody who called you the devil? Because love always
hopes, it always trusts, it always perseveres and rejoices when good wins out in your life. And he had the heart of the father, he believed in me, and I
can't say that if he hadn't pressed in and done that I would be here, but the circumstances wouldn't line up, I had my roommate had
everybody come together and pray for me at that time. She had a vision of me in the hotel room and described it exactly as it was and I fell on my knees when she told me. She was like I can't
believe, are you okay? I'm like yeah, what's wrong, why? She's like I had a
vision of you and I knew I needed to pray 'cause
I knew you were thinking about taking your life. And I was like, why does God love me? And it's just, he's
just, he's a good father. - [Host] He goes to
whatever extent, you know, to chase that one sheep
and you were that sheep. - That's exactly right. - [Host] And he loved you so much. I love that after you
through a series obviously, there's more in the book,
but through a series of you giving, you know, giving
this relationship to the Lord and being set free from that,
obviously it was challenging, but I love that you say one
of the first things you did after you did that was
go to a book store and... What'd you get? - Get a Bible.
- Yeah, get a Bible. - Get two Bibles.
- [Host] Get two Bibles. - Yeah, because the thing was that I had, I was so certain that
I had heard God tell me this was from God and then realizing this was so not from him,
and then understanding I don't know right from wrong anymore. I don't know how to tell the difference. And I kept thinking how, how
can I know anything is true. And I had to make a choice to just recount when I became a Christian the first time and I opened up the
Bible and it spoke to me like it was alive. And I was like I'm just
gonna choose to believe in the Bible, it's God's
words, and I'm not gonna think I can hear him on my own. I'm gonna think if it's in the Bible then I'm gonna think it's
God and if it's not I'm not. - What a safe, a safe place to be, the written word of God,
God has given us this, and we can put everything
in it, we can take it, and we can take it to the
bank, it's true, it's reliable. - [Lacey] Thank God. - Yeah, thankful to the Lord for that. You know, you mention that you went back, you know, you didn't know the difference between right and wrong anymore, and I think that's really important because usually when we have strayed away from the Lord and we've
walked away from the Lord the best thing to do is to
go back to the basics, right? To go back to God's word,
to go back to prayer, go back to church, go
back to fellowshiping, because I guarantee if you look back if you've walked away from the Lord one of those things,
several of those things, all of those things
are probably not things that you've been doing,
right, because you've, you know, you've walked away from those. Those things keep you,
those things keep us. And so I love that you,
you went to God's word. And I think this next
segment transitioning kind of into a point where
you're fully walking with the Lord, you were indulging
in his word, you were praying, but you say that you
were still kind of stuck in this unhealthy mindset
that you weren't worthy, and I love that, you kind
of squashed that right away, 'cause you said but he would
have none of that, you know? I wasn't worthy, but he
would have none of that. I love that. What would you say maybe to
the person that's sitting here, listening that maybe thinks that they've, they've messed up, they're
to the point of no return. What would you say to that, that woman, that person even today? - [Lacey] It's a lie. It's a lie that's trying
to steal your future. It's a lie. God considers you worth dying for. And when the adulterous woman was brought in front of everybody and they said the Bible says we should stone this woman, Moses says that, what do you say? He says let the person that has no sin cast the first stone. And the truth is Jesus, he
was supposed to be put on a, she was supposed to be
brought out to the front of the city in front
of everybody, stripped, and stoned to death. And what happened was
Jesus was brought out to the front of the city
and stripped and crucified. And that's how much he
values each one of us in the midst of, he was in the mi, she was caught in the act of adultery. You can turn in the
midst of the worst thing to this Jesus who knows all,
who became sin on the cross. You know, why we listen to
people who've been through it? Because we feel like while
you might understand, you're not gonna judge me. Well guess what Jesus
went through with you? He became sin. You can look at him, he does understand. And the question is on you. Are you gonna come, are you gonna trust that he can do something to make it new? - That's the Gospel right there, that's the good news of Jesus right there. As you were walking in your
relationship with the Lord you say you kind of struggled
to find your identity because before you had found your identity kind of in metal music, in
poetry, in Tim Burton films, and the Lord was changing that in you and you kind of felt like
you were losing your identity in that, but really God was
molding you and shaping you. And I love, you have to
get the book and read about Lacey's perspective and
her notes on Proverbs 31. She breaks it down and puts
it in just these real life notes and it is, it's really,
I love how you did that. I went back and read it several
times, that was awesome. Also during this time
God had called you to, he had put something on your
heart, purity on your heart, in a very, a very real
way, a very heavy way, and you thought maybe
that you might be called to singleness, right, for good, you thought that I'm
never gonna get married. But you met, we know that
didn't happen, right, you met Josh, your husband. (Lacey and Host laughs) Thank goodness. But if you could sit down
you have so much wisdom in your book, I was
sharing with you at dinner how much wisdom you have in
your book for single girls. What would you say to
the single girl right now who's walking with the Lord, and you know, just what encouragement
can you give her today? - Well I was tired
emotionally and romantically and I was ready to have no
romance in that way ever. I was just like I'm
done, and so I don't know where you're at, but you don't
have to get to that place before you can realize. If you just listen to what I'm saying, you don't have to get yourself worn out before you realize I
just need to figure out my own soul with God
and what that looks like to be whole in him apart from romance. Because romance is so funny,
it's an earthly thing, it's funny, it's a metaphor
for our relationship with God as in covenant
and our worship with him and being exclusive with God, right? But it's an earthly thing and
it's temporary in that way. It's temporary. There's such an eternal, eternity to come, and the Bible says that
if we look in this life for our reward then we
look for destruction. If that's all the reward we're looking for is in this life we're
looking for destruction. Because there's eternity to come, and what's so beautiful
is that when you seek God to be your whole everything
in your single days you are preparing yourself beautifully to be an amazing wife. Because the best gift
you can give your husband is to know your wholeness
in Christ and in God. There is no gift like that you can give. That is the most precious
thing that your husband will be able to have from you, you knowing that he is your all and all and your everything and
your joy and your source. And if you can do that it makes you, like it says here, a mystery. And when I was reading this
book, The Proust Questionniare, which is a, it's like a
compilation of all these famous people through the years
who've taken a questionnaire and they all answer the same questions and you see the different answers. Well one of the questions was what quality do you admire the most in a woman? And the answer over and over was mystery. And that's the most beautiful
thing I can think of is to find your wholeness in
your relationship with God. God what do you say about me? How can I come to life in you alone? And then if God brings love
into your life and romance that makes you so alluring. You know? Do you understand how this is alluring? You're like why are you okay when I'm, why are you, you know, why are you not... It makes you unable to be manipulated and controlled in the ways that you would if you were looking for
romance to make you whole. And it's such a beautiful powerful thing. And so in my single days
I finally was exhausted and I didn't wanna be married because I was just exhausted. I've already been married,
I've been through an affair, I've had relationships, I'm just tired, I don't wanna do that anymore and I just wanna be single and
do something radical for God and not be Catholic, but
be a nun of some kind. (audience laughs) Rock and roll nun or something. (audience laughs) - You said that your
singleness was a gift from God and that, I love that verse in Psalm 54:5 which you quote in your book, and I claim to the promise of that that
your maker is your husband, and that verse was really
close to your heart. - [Lacey] Yes, and that's
what this tattoo is from. It says Beula on it, which means married. It says your maker is your husband. - [Host] Yeah. - And like I got this
tattoo in a white dress and I'm like I'm gonna marry God. (audience laughs) - [Host] She did that. She had a little wedding ceremony, she talks about it in
her book, I loved it. I wish we could talk about all of it. - Sorry. - It's so good, but you,
your first love was Jesus and I think that's important
whether you're single, whether you're married, it doesn't matter whether you're dating
Jesus is your first love, that's the message, right? - [Lacey] Yes.
(audience applauds) It's so good in marriage. So when Josh and I are
fighting about something and I just remember oh my gosh,
I'm married to Jesus still. (audience laughs) I think he wants to buy me flowers. So I just go buy them and
I'm like look at the flowers Jesus gave me today. He's so romantic.
(audience laughs) My husband is like, what? - [Host] That's so cute. - And I'm just why are
you happy right now? I'm happy.
(laughs) - I just, I love that you
even mentioned that you, that book, it encouraged
to write a list, right? Kind of set out a fleece before the Lord. Lord I'm not gonna married,
but if there is a man, how many things were on that list? - 60.
- [Host] How many? - 60. - [Host] 60, 60 things,
I wish we could see it. - I could've done more, but I was just ready to go to bed I think. (audience laughs) - [Host] She made a list
of things, you know? - [Lacey] As a joke. I'm like you can't bring somebody that I would wanna marry. Okay, fine, you want me to make this list? Whatever. Well this and this and
this and this and this, and I made it impossible. - [Host] And... The Lord brought Josh, right? - Where is he? - I don't know, he was
supposed to be sitting on a chair back there, but
I think he scooted back a little further. But I know we're, there's
so much in her book, but I do wanna mention just
about when you met Josh and that relationship developed
like relationships do, but it developed within parameters, and you guys had set hedges
on your relationship, and I think those things are so important and you valued them, and I actually love, I don't know if I quoted
what you wrote about hedges, but you didn't look at
it as something that was, you know, holding you
back, you looked at it as something that was giving you freedom in your relationship. So you met Josh and what drew you to Josh? - Well he was, well at first I thought he had a cool tattoo. That was on my list, meaningful tattoo. - [Host] That was, it was on the list. (audience laughs) - And I was like it's meaningful tattoos. - [Host] Yeah. - So I was like, so what's that tattoo? And he told me, oh it's about, you know, the symbolism of the
pelican and he pretty much tells the Gospel from his tattoo. I'm like, really? That's nice. - [Host] I got 59 more to go, so. (audience laughs)
- Pretty meaningful. And so we had started
talking and found out there was some things
like that on the list and I was just like, well he's cool. But and the more that I found
out that he was on the list the more I was like, I'm
gonna go talk to this girl over here because I don't
wanna get married right now. And that was the thing is,
I was kind of a little bit like I'm not gonna manipulate this, 'cause he has to chase me,
that was also on the list, I'm not chasing, even
though he has to be shy and I'm a rock star. (audience laughs) - [Host] All of those things. He was all of those things to her too, which is so cool. And in the process of
this dating relationship that you guys built you
again called Eric and Sarah and you said, Eric,
listen, I've met a guy, and Eric said, let me call
him, let me talk to him. And you're like okay, so let me tell Josh, and he was okay with that. And I think there's wisdom
in that too, you know, having accountability in
your dating relationships, that's great. I love this story that you
told about how one night you were on the phone with
Josh and you got a phone call from a family member that
something was going on really serious, a tragedy in your family, and you were talking to Josh and he said, you know what, as much as
I'd like to be there for you and to comfort you I
want you to go to Jesus and I want you to go spend time with him, and that's what you did. - Yes, because he didn't wanna
move too far emotionally. So he was protecting me
emotionally from connecting over this tragedy in my family that was gonna be a memory forever. Did I work that out? Like if I get married I'd be
like oh there was this guy I was talking to and, you know, if I got married to somebody else it would've been like he really
helped me through that time. No, it was like, you know
what, you need to go to Jesus, and that was so beautiful
because he was honoring where we were at in our relationship. - [Host] Which is so important. So important if you're
dating, if you're single, if your daughter is dating,
read this book, read these, read these encouraging
and just wise advice that Lacey has in her book. I love that the Lord brought Josh to you at a time in your life
when you had developed a healthy relationship with Christ and you were beginning to understand the true love that your
heavenly father had for you in the midst of, like
you say in your book, a world of just broken lovers, you had tasted what the world had to offer and you weren't buying
it, it wasn't fulfilling, and you tasted what God had to... - [Lacey] It was destructive.
- It was destructive. And what God had to
offer was so much richer. - [Lacey] Life.
- Life. - [Lacey] Real life.
- Life. - [Lacey] Yeah.
- Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Lacey what would you say to the woman here that can relate to your story,
struggling with depression, wrong relationships, maybe
struggling with abandonment or condemnation, what would you tell them about the love that their
heavenly Father has for them? - Well first I wanna say that God's way is the best way.
- [Host] Amen, amen. - There is no way that's better. Not in any way at all. And sometimes we get addicted
to these emotional ideas of what things can be like
and they never end in life the way that God's ways do. And sometimes like for me when I got out of that relationship, you
know, I felt like my arm was broken, my soul was
broken, my heart was broken, and I had to put it in a
cast for a little while and I couldn't use it. And that's okay, there are seasons when we need to step away and just figure out our relationship with God,
and we need to be willing to cut our arm off. The Bible says if your
arm is causing you to sin, cut it off. It's better to go to hell maimed than, I mean go to heaven maimed
than to go to hell whole. And that was a really important thing 'cause this relationship was literally like cutting my arm off. And I was like, and so whenever
I was coming back to life I felt numb for a while
because my emotions were what had led me into this. I followed him like an idol
and that idol had to die. And so my emotions went
to pretty much zero, I was rude to everybody. I was like I don't want
a friend, I don't wanna talk to any guy, no way, I
don't even wanna talk to girls. I'm not talking to anybody. I was got hit by a truck. You know, you get scared when you realize I almost didn't make it out of that, I don't any relationships,
I need fear out of my life. Well maybe there is a season for that and then maybe you need
to heal with the Lord, but then you need to come
back into relationships in a way that you have to trust again and recognize with my relationship, with my spiritual dad
and one of the things I really wanna say is that he's human and God would only let that go so far. As soon as I started
putting him in God's place in my heart the Lord would shake that and show me his humanity, and say, you know what, I am your Father, he might represent your
heart for a season, but I am your Father and he's a brother that you need to forgive too. And that's how it is, it's
okay to accept somebody and recognize they're not perfect, but if I just listen to this
part of what they're saying then I think I'll grow and I can overcome, humble myself and do it. And so what I would say is that God's ways are the best way. He's worth it all, he's
worthy of your whole life, he's worth it. He alone is worthy of your heart, your soul, your life, he's worth it all, and nothing else is worth
everything like that. He's the only one and
all their idols are just, just leading to destruction. So he's worthy and beyond worth it all he has so much more than you
can imagine for your life. I can't believe the life
that came after that. I can't believe the
way and the only reason I wrote this book is 'cause I was so angry at the enemy for deceiving me. And I'm like, no, I'm gonna
tell people what you did. (audience laughs) You don't have to be deceived. - And through that you
discovered the perfect love of your heavenly Father
who was, right, the... - Yes, so he was showing
love throughout all of it. - [Host] Provider, protector,
corrector, nurturer, lover, all of those things. - Yeah.
- Thank you Lacey.
