Giant in the Shadows: The Life of Robert T. Lincoln

from the Library of Congress in Washington DC you well good afternoon everyone I'm Kyla Molinar from the center for the book which is co-sponsoring our program today on the center for the book for those of you unfamiliar with us is the section of the library that promotes books reading library and literacy and we do this here in Washington and we do it on a nationwide basis because we have a state center for the book in every state in the District of Columbia and we even have our most recent state center for the book witches in the US Virgin Islands and we also have a partnership with more than 80 like-minded organizations that also promote literacy like we do and one of the things that the Center for the book does is we play an important role in the National Book Festival where the office that invites the authors and organizes the author's programs and we've done that since the beginning of 2001 and I urge you to all come to this year's National Book Festival which is September 21st and 22nd on the National Mall we'll have more than a hundred authors there and if you go to our website at loc.gov slash book fest you can see all the authors who are coming this year before we get started I just need to ask if you could please turn off all your electronic devices and I need to tell you that we will be recording today's event for later webcasting so if you ask a question you will probably become part of our webcast today and speaking of our webcast they're all available online so if there are any author events we've had in the past that you'd like to see you can see them at read gov we have more than 200 available on that site I want to also let you know that the book today that we'll be discussing is for sale at the end of the program and the author will also be signing his book today we are often asked by authors and others how we determine which books will feature in our series and really the most important decision and criteria and is that the book be based on research done here at the Library of Congress and today's book is on Robert Todd Lincoln whose papers are in our man script division and I want to thank the manuscript division for bringing the program to us today the division the divisions Civil War and reconstruction specialist as Michelle crawl who will introduce our author michelle has a BA in history from the University of California Riverside and an MA and PhD in history from the University of California at Berkeley she's the author of several articles and books on topics relating to the Civil War as well as Quantico Virginia and the world war ii memorial here in washington she has worked as a library assistant at the Historical Society of Washington and an assistant professor at Northern Virginia Community College and as a research assistant for historian Doris Kearns Goodwin and I think the neatest thing about Michelle that you would like to know is that she is in the credits for the film Lincoln as a historical consultant so please welcome Michelle crawl welcome to the Library of Congress and thank you for coming today if you ask the man on the street to identify Robert Todd Lincoln he might be able to tell you that he was Abraham Lincoln's son and was slapped by his father in the recent Spielberg movie Lincoln which Jason will tell you that didn't actually happen everything in film is wrong the slightly better informed might know that he had his mother Mary Todd Lincoln committed to a mental institution in 1875 only the really informed might be able to offer that Robert Lincoln was a successful Chicago attorney served as Secretary of War was the American minister to Great Britain or was the president of the Pullman Palace car company the order of those responses gives you an idea of why Jason Emerson's recent biography of Robert Lincoln is titled giant in the shadows very accomplished in his own right Robert Lincoln also lived his life in the shadow of his famous parents here at the Library of Congress we also know Robert Lincoln and his family as generous donors of many priceless manuscripts and three-dimensional objects Roberts daughter Mary ischium donated the contents of Abraham Lincoln's pockets on the night he was assassinated at Ford's Theatre some of which are currently exhibited in our the Civil War in America exhibition over in the Jefferson Building and the manuscript division would not have one of the most significant collections of Abraham Lincoln papers in the world had Robert Lincoln not agreed to donate his papers in 1919 yet even the mingkun manuscripts we value so highly reinforce the difficulty for Robert Lincoln to be his own man at the public opening of the Abraham Lincoln papers on July 26 1947 just 66 years next week Norman frost Robert Lincoln's former secretary and attorney explained that there was a man who longed to be an individual but who at the same time had a complete and self-sacrificing devotion to his famous father he wanted to be known for himself alone but that wasn't possible the papers never permitted that however with his new book on Robert Lincoln in the shadows which you've seen guy hold up and here it is Rob the life of Robert T Lincoln historian Jason Emerson brings Roberts life out of the shadows and into his own spotlight Jason is well-qualified to present another member of the Lincoln family in a new way having previously written or edited books on Abraham Lincoln's relationship with science and technology in Lincoln the inventor and Mary Lincoln's famous insanity case in the madness of Mary Lincoln incidentally Jason discovered letters that Mary Lincoln wrote during her insanity episode among the papers of Robert Lincoln's other secretary and successfully urged Frederick Towers as heirs to donate them to the Library of Congress which they did so our thanks to Jason for this important acquisition to the manuscript division Jason is also the author of numerous articles relating to Lincoln studies and can be found on television and online providing insights on the Lincoln's in his many interviews and public presentations including those for the History Channel and CNBC's treasure detectives his next book will be a compilation of Mary Todd Lincoln's unpublished letters which updates a 1972 edition by Justin Turner Lin and Linda Levitt Turner but today is all about Robert Todd Lincoln so please join in welcoming Jason Emerson to discuss the spy and in the shadows oh thank you very much I I sounded pretty cool when you say it like that I will issue a copy out right now my name is not in the credits for the Lincoln movie so I don't like it no I'm just kidding no it's a great movie everything about Robert in it is wrong but I'll explain that later well thank you so much and thank you all for coming especially on this wonderfully roasting Lee hot day I'm from upstate New York so this is really killing me well I think most people who know much of anything about Abraham Lincoln which as many people they know that he is one of the most written about people in world history last I had heard he was number three number one was Jesus Christ number two Napoleon which I actually was surprised by and number three is Lincoln now anyone who's read anything about Lincoln you may know the reputation of his oldest son Robert Robert stood apart from his family he was more Todd than Lincoln he was embarrassed by and scornful of his father he hated his mother he knew little about his father's presidency he cared even less he had his mother committed to an insane asylum out of greed and embarrassment he corrupted his father's legacy he destroyed papers he was a cold heartless avaricious arrogant aristocratic man who despised those people that he considered to be beneath him this is the typical understanding and belief of Robert Lincoln and it's in just about any book you find that's how he is portrayed and it is certainly not flattering it's also not true don't worry as a lot of people seem concerned and say well why did you write about him robert was actually none of these things he was in my opinion a great man who inherited many of his father's best traits and he very faithfully and heroically preserved his father's legacy for more than half a century but Robert not only protected his father's history but he made his own history separate from his parents that is worthy of its own study of course I think so so why I actually spent a mining book I spent 10 years working on this now I call this my magnum opus for many years I called it the albatross around my neck that I never thought I would finish but I did but knowing that Roberts reputation is so negative how has his family role become so perverted how is this good man become the Lincoln family villain and he is in many books and movies literally a mustache twirling villain now there are really three specific reasons for Roberts terrible reputation which of course I'm not gonna tell you right now but in a few minutes I'll explain it now Robert Lincoln was the oldest of Abraham and Mary's four sons and he was the only son to live to maturity he graduated from Harvard he served on ulysses s grant staff during the final months of the Civil War and afterward he became a lawyer in Chicago and actually he ultimately became one of the most prestigious attorneys not only in Chicago but in the Midwest he accepted various civil service positions in the US government including a secretary of war minister to Great Britain and he became a true captain of industry not only as president of the Pullman Company but he was also either president or a board member of telephone companies railroad companies electric electric companies even automobile companies he was a family man a businessman and a philanthropist he was a self-made man who actually died a multi-millionaire now Robert T Lincoln he actually never used his middle name only his middle initial just like his mother never used Todd in her name that's something that later historians did Robert was also the preserver protector and defense of his father's ever-growing reputation as well as the owner of all of his father's papers which are now in the library and all of his father's personal artifacts and in that capacity which Robert never flaunted he was besieged by historians collectors museums historical societies politicians and the general public all of them seeking souvenirs access some sort of contact with the last surviving link to the great Emancipator and in fact pretty much from the day after the assassination in 1865 until Robert's death in 1926 literally every single day he would have people come up to him or write him letters later on call him on the telephone and imagine this for 60 years every day people good can you tell me about your father can you do you have anything from your father can you look at this this book I wrote about your father can you look at this poem can you look at this painting can you look at this bust can you every day by 1909 the centennial of Abraham Lincoln's birth Robert was receiving more than 100 letters a day about his father and he answered them all which is pretty heroic but he didn't his secretary did but he made sure they were answered now Roberts attitudes toward his father's papers and artifacts was consistent for you know 60 years basically he never let anyone look at them except for nickel and hay which I'll get to in a minute but basically his relationship with his father's legacy was much more complex than just owning or not owning these papers he revered his father's legacy and his father's memory and he believed very much in the a geographical style of biography at the time people just clamoring to listen to me speak it's wonderful Robert believed basically you know biographies way back when were he's a great man we show all the great things and anything that's really not that great or might be embarrassing we just kind of you know burst that aside that's really not that important and Robert believed in that you know he believed in the purity of his father's memory but Robert was in fact very publicly reticent and he did not like to speak about his father he never wanted to insert himself into his father's legacy but as Robert aged his patience thinned a bit and as he got older he eventually became a little bit more outspoken for the purity of his father's memory but Robert as the only surviving son of Abraham Lincoln he did not allow his father's legacy or memory to control his life although it's certainly imputed he never traded on his name although others did trade for him he did not seek publicity or public adoration but such exposure was often thrust upon him nor did he as many people have believed live under an inferiority complex due to his father's apotheosis and the expectations of the general public although such judgments were often made about him but Roberts life is really a fantastic journey through an amazing period in American history you know he was born in 1843 in a once one and a half story room you know no running water outdoor bathrooms horses dirt streets and he died in 1926 in a 25 room Georgian Revival mansion in Vermont with a car in the garage and a granddaughter who flew airplanes and Roberts saw all of this this growth of America but his life has really been unexamined before my book there was only ever one biography of Robert ever written in 1969 by a man named John Goff and is called Robert Todd Lincoln a man in his own right and Goff's book is pretty good it's 286 pages it's very general but it really wasn't his fault when he was writing this Roberts grandchildren were still alive and they would not allow golf to look at their family papers so golf did he did really well with what he had but what he had really wasn't a whole lot now the other book there's kind of a sort of biography and it's called Lincoln's sons by Ruth painter Randall and that was published in 1955 and that's about all for Lincoln boys but since Robert was the first and last and lived the longest much of the book is about him and that's pretty good you know both of those books are a good starting place but more information is definitely needed to really understand Roberts life and who he but because he was Abraham Lincoln's son unfortunately Robert has long been subsumed under the Lincoln iana heading but more than that for you know decades certainly as long as I've been studying Lincoln for 20 years Robert has typically been ignored often misunderstood and usually maligned by Lincoln scholars and this is really what drew me to the study of Robert you know I've been as I said studying Lincoln in his family for about 20 years and I started in 94 when I worked at the Abraham Lincoln home in Springfield Illinois and you know during that time since that time I've read you know hundreds thousands probably of books and articles and newspapers and things and I've developed kind of a predilection for books and things that I research and write about I prefer that they haven't been written about a thousand times so I always tell people I will never write a biography of Abraham Lincoln because there's plenty and if I ever do call me on it I'll give you a free copy of the book since I broke my word but you know so as I was writing started my writing I first did a couple of articles about Abraham Lincoln's poetry but she was actually a pretty good poet and it's never really been written about so I did that you know I studied his invention and patent which was my book Lincoln the inventor Mary Lincoln's insanity case only one book had ever been done about that and I found lots of new items and new letters and ultimately somehow I stumbled upon Robert Lincoln and I went to his house Hill Dean in Manchester Vermont which is a wonderful place I highly recommend it if you ever go up that way and I picked up John golf's book and I don't really remember reading it but I know I did and at some point I wish I could remember where cuz people always ask me but somewhere I learned that the Republican Party tried five times to get Robert Lincoln to run for president of the United States and every time he said no he wanted nothing absolutely nothing to do with it in 1887 when he he came dangerously close in the 88 of being nominated against his will but in 1887 he very famously said the presidential office is but a gilded prison to care and worry far outweigh to my mind the honor which surrounds the position well they kept trying in 88 one of my favorite things the Republicans they had lost in 84 to Grover Cleveland so they were desperate to get the White House back and they thought what are the two biggest names in the Republican Party Lincoln and Grant so they wanted to run Robert Lincoln for president and Frederick grant the son of US Grant for vice-president of course neither one of them wanted to run so that didn't really work but they tried but so you know I thought that was fascinating so I wrote an article about Roberts president being a non presidential candidate and it was published in American history magazine which was my first break into the Slick's I actually got paid for it which was a nice change as a scholar but as I was doing research for that I kept finding all these fascinating things that I had never known and never seen published my next article I learned stories some of you may have heard it that in 1863 when Robert was a college student he was almost killed by a train and the man who saved his life was named Edwin Booth the older brother of John Wilkes Booth there's a fascinating story so I wrote an article about that and as I was researching that I just kept finding all this great stuff and kept churning out all these articles in one day I thought you know I should probably just write a book about Robert instead of all these articles and so so I did it silly me what I learned very quickly as I mentioned before was that Roberts life has really been ignored disregarded misunderstood maligned by historians and as a result nobody has ever looked through Roberts papers which is amazing considering that he was the oldest son the only son to survive and he owned the papers his father's papers for 60 years but you know and it surprised me because even if Robert is only a minor character in the Lincoln story which a lot of people think you would think that you would at least go to his papers because he was more or less a grown man when his father was in the White House you'd think you'd want to know what the son knew and yet no one's ever bothered to look at Roberts papers and it's you know as a historian it's simultaneously depressing and exciting you know I was as I was doing my research for 10 years research and reading every single day I found something new unknown unpublished not just about Robert but about Abraham about Mary about the Civil War about his time in the White House about Roberts kids his grandkids it was amazing the things and and a lot of this stuff I had to really dig out but a lot of it was right there in the open that just nobody had ever cared to look for one of the the major discoveries that I made was really Robert's relationship with his father now if you've seen the Lincoln movie that movie portrayed Robert exceptionally well in the completely misguided misunderstood an incorrect way that I've been talking about you know the typical understanding is Robert and you know his he and his father they didn't get along didn't like each other Robert was never in the White House and they just you know he was a Todd he wasn't a Lincoln and they just clashed heads the other famous scene where Lincoln slaps there's utterly ridiculous but um what I discovered during my research was that you know Robert was in Harvard College during the war so everyone said well he was never around so why would he know what happened in the White House well actually Robert was in the White House constantly every break from school he had summer winter spring he went to the White House almost practically every weekend every other weekend he took the train went to the White House and not only were he and his father close but what I discovered that Robert was actually his father's confidant during the Civil War Abraham Lincoln confided in his son in some of the most trying times of the war including the cabinet crisis of 62 the aftermath of the Battle of Gettysburg in 63 the issuance of the Pomeroy circular in 64 of the Hampton Roads Peace Conference in 65 Robert actually once lamented to a friend that he kept no notes during the war he wrote it's a very great regret to me that I did not do so because on several occasions my father and his desire to unburden himself in someone to someone in whom he had complete trust gave me statements of the conditions of things which were very much troubling him and I ought to have jotted them down but actually Robert did jot them down just not in a diary but in numerous letters to various people throughout the years which are spread across America which I've took this why it took me ten years to write the book one reason but um you know every day I found something new and a lot of things I found here in the Library of Congress my favorite place to research um I think I must have looked through I don't know two or three dozen collections of papers here in the manuscripts reading room and in the newspaper microfilm room and in the law library and in the photo room so I basically lived here for a few years now the you know people often ask me what's the best thing you found you say you found all this great stuff the best thing I ever found I actually found here at the Library of Congress and I had to keep it a secret for about six years it was killing me and the Robert Todd Lincoln papers not the not his father's papers that he donated but Roberts papers way back when I think it was to folders and so I'm just looking through it and just looking through the few things in there and I find this I think it was a 12 page handwritten letter dated July he was July 12 1881 Robert was Secretary of War under President Garfield and he was 40 feet away when Garfield got shot and so I found this letter and it's detailing day by day some cases minute by minute everything that happened from the moment Garfield got shot for the next seven days in the White House what Garfield was doing how he was feeling what the doctors were doing what they were saying how the government was being run Robert and Secretary of State James G Blaine basically ran the government for that especially for that week and it was just an absolute goldmine of information and I've looked at every everything ever written about Garfield nobody has ever used it and so you know people say oh you find anything interesting at the library today no oh I didn't look at Robert's papers today and by the way it's just it was incredible and I actually found about six letters that Robert wrote about the assassination that nobody's ever used the one thing I discovered which was amazing as I was writing about Garfield's assassination you know what during the trial of katoa the prosecution called to the stand to testify every single person who was in the train station the Baltimore train station the day the moment Garfield got shot every single person except for Secretary of War Robert Lincoln who was standing 40 feet away and I honestly don't know why it's it's a wonderful and infuriating mystery to me why they didn't call him I can only assume you know at the time everybody oh can you believe it Robert Lincoln first his father than he's standing next to Garfield what a horrible thing and maybe the court didn't want to put him through testifying I don't know but yes so he never testified so I don't know maybe that's why everybody thinks that he knew nothing about the assassination but the odd thing is is that a couple of nights before the assassination Garfield sat down with Robert Lincoln had a cigar and asked him very kindly but asked him if he would relate to Garfield if Robert would relate to Garfield the day of and the night before his father died and what his father was doing right before he died which is kind of eerie in its own way now um I could tell you so many stories about interesting things I found but one thing that I find people have a lot of questions on and it's very fitting because we're in the library is the fact that Robert had all of his father's papers for 60 years you know there's been a lot of stories that Robert burned papers he purged the papers he edited the papers etc etc what was fascinating to me which I never knew was that so after the assassination Abraham Lincoln's two secretaries John Nicolay and John Hay and Robert Lincoln they all went to the White House and they boxed up everything in the Oval Office and they sent all I think at that time it was 11 trunks to the bank vault of David Davis Abraham Lincoln's friend and at that time a Supreme Court justice and Roberts idea Robert was the man of the family he was the oldest was we'll leave him there for a while until Nikolai and I can go through it and probably David Davis and we'll see what's good what's bad anything purely personal to the family will not be released to the public but everything else you know we'll release it and let people see it so nine years later Roberts still had not gone through the boxes John Nicolay and John Hay they wanted to write what they wrote was a 10 volume biography of Abraham Lincoln the definitive account and they wanted to look through the boxes and Robert said that they could he said but first let me go through them and make sure there's nothing embarrassing in there anything purely private and but Robert just kept procrastinating because he wrote many times he said I know the minute I opened those up I will be deluged with requests everybody's gonna want to see what's in the boxes so finally in 1874 Nicolay was just harassing him so Robert he had some boxes sent to a Chicago home he opened up the first box just if you can imagine just thousands of papers in there and he just said boy Nikolai you just go ahead and take him he just let him take him so Nikolai brought them to Washington and he kept them mostly under the US Capitol building he was the marshal of the US Supreme Court so he and Nikolai wrote their book and Nicolai kept the papers in his possession until he died in 1901 after that John Hay was then secretary of state to President Theodore Roosevelt he took the papers put them in the vaults under the State Department and then he died in 1905 so Robert Lincoln came to Washington and took possession of his father's papers which he had not seen in 30 years and so you know people who say Oh Robert purged the papers and he burned them and this and that Robert didn't actually he didn't have them in his personal possession until 1905 so you know he was trying to decide of course everybody wanted the papers and in the end he decided to donate them to the Library of Congress in 1919 although they weren't brought here until 1923 I believe it was for the benefit of the people of America which is amazing but you know the most famous story about Robert burning papers some of you may have heard or seen it was that one of Roberts friends was Nicholas Butler he's the president of Columbia University and in his memoirs and in I think Life magazine article he wrote says this wonderful article about how he got this frantic call one night from Roberts secretary I think her one of Roberts friends I was just over at Hill Dean and Robert Lincoln is burning his father's papers you're the only one that he'll listen to you run over there and and so Butler runs over there stop what you're doing how dare you any dresses Robert Lincoln down those don't belong to you they belong to America you give those to the Library of Congress right now how dare you and Robert who you write I'm sorry you know like that's a wonderful story and Butler was adamant this happened in 1924 absolutely really well Robert gave the papers away in 1919 so I don't know what you're talking about but people look at that story ah see Robert burned papers but actually what we know is that Robert burned a lot of his own papers he was a quintessential Victorian era gentleman and he believed very deeply in privacy a manly duty manly honor but family privacy and so I know he burned some of his mother's papers he burned a lot of his own papers that were just private you know he didn't want anybody to see but so I think that those are where some of those stories come from so he never burned any of his father's papers that I'm aware of but it's still you know it's a fun story so you know I could I could tell you stories all day but I'll end with one last one one of my favorite stories I ever read after Robert died it was in one of his obituaries his friend F Willis Rice who was a member of the Chicago club with Robert Robert lived in Chicago for about 50 years he told his favorite story about Robert Lincoln to a newspaper said one day seven or eight years ago I was talking with mr. Lincoln inside one of the big windows of the Chicago Club on Michigan Avenue when a military parade passed by for some reason they stopped within our view for several minutes and as we watched them mr. Lincoln laughs softly and he told me a story this reminds me of father he said he was always eager when he saw marching troops to know what state they came from once as we were driving through Washington our carriage was stopped by a body of troops crossing a corner in his eagerness to know from where they hailed open the door and stepping halfway out shouted to a group of workmen standing close by what is it boys meaning where do they come from one short little red-haired man with a typical Irish face a fixed him with a withering glance and retorted it's a regiment you damned old fool in a fit of laughter father close the door and when his mirth had somewhat subsided he turned to me and said Bob it doesn't man good sometimes to hear the truth and so what is the truth about Robert Lincoln well quite simply he was a great man in his own right separate from his father which is in fact why his wife buried him in Arlington National Cemetery and not in the Lincoln tomb in Springfield Illinois she thought that he deserves his own place in the Sun as she said so why is Robert's reputation so negative I know you all thought I forgot I promised I promised I would tell you there's really three reasons one is that Robert as a captain of industry and a millionaire businessman you know he has the impression and the reputation as a kind of a cold ruthless avaricious CEO you know he didn't like people he was he was out of touch with the common man that was really the thing his father was common but Robert he disdained the common man so and part of that was Roberts own fault he didn't like talking to the press because he felt that they just made stuff up in the paper but since he wouldn't talk to them they would just make it up so then he wouldn't talk to them so they you know it's kind of this this cycle the second reason is Roberts commitment of his mother to the mental institution in 1875 which has been cast as you know he bribed the judge in the jury it's a kangaroo court he wanted to steal her money all this ridiculous it's nonsense I don't know where it came from but it's nonsense but you know it persists in the face of cold the evidence that it didn't really happen that way but really the third reason and probably the most important reason for Roberts negative reputation it all comes down sadly to one book one single book really did it all so 1987 biography of Mary Lincoln called Mary Todd Lincoln a biography by Jean Baker now the book is a feminist revisionist cycle biography labeled by others than me although I agree with it but if you read that book Robert is the most disgusting despicable heartless horrible human being that you could ever possibly imagine roamed the earth well actually Baker did imagine it because it's all false but you know that's been the go-to book on married for decades and so that's become Roberts reputation that's interesting though that she's lucky that none of Roberts family or that his law firm were alive at the time because they would have sued her for libel actually one interesting thing I found out during my research was that there was a wonder there was a book published in 1959 called the trial of Mary Todd Lincoln by two authors Rhodes and Jackie as' and it was the true story of Mary Lincoln's trial then he opened up the flap it's the true story as it should have been and so it's basically you know they just made it all up you know Robert bribed the judge in the jury kangaroo court he's stealing her money blah blah blah but it was cast as nonfiction in truth so Roberts law firm - Lincoln and Beale was still in existence at that time and the one of the vice-president's who was also the firm historian he read the book and he personally had known Robert Lincoln and he wrote them a letter to the two authors and the publisher and he said I've just read your book everything in it is a malicious lie and if you do not pull every copy of that book off every shelf in America we will destroy you and it's amazing if you look at every edition of that book after the first one it's now labeled as fiction so there is a little justice in the world I guess so you know when I wrote my book my goal was never to vindicate Robert Lincoln nor to try to actively seek to restore his reputation I just thought that he seemed like a very interesting guy who had never really been written about before but um you know the more I learned about him the more I learned that he was really a great man and his life really needs to be understood especially for what it was and not what it has become perceived to be now towards the end of his life Robert Lincoln one time he was at the Georgetown Gulf of course golf was one of his great passions as was smoking cigars and he was sitting there smoking the cigar after a run of golf and a reporter came up to him and wanted his picture wanted an interview and Robert no no I don't wanna and the guy just kept bothering finally Robert turned it when he said listen my father was a great man but I am NOT and he got up and walked away now I for one would respectfully disagree thank you very much love to take questions his men any errors left no Robert had three children two daughters and a son his son Abraham Lincoln the second and they called Jack died when he was 16 of blood poisoning his daughter Mary his oldest daughter Miriam she got married she had one son Abraham Lincoln Isum they called him link and Jesse Beckwith the are Jesse Lincoln Roberts smallest as the youngest child was um she was kind of the wild child of the Lincoln family she eloped with a football player Robert locked her in a room for two days was all in the media she had two children Robert and Mary Beckwith and so Robert had those three grandchildren and all three of them as far as I can determine purposefully did not have children they all hated being Lincoln's they felt that it was a curse they felt like they were sideshow freaks and they didn't want to pass it on to another generation so a bud Beckwith the last one Robert Todd Lincoln Beckwith they called him but he died in 1985 and he was the last direct descendant yes yes yeah Robert he lived in Chicago for 50 years and in 1911 he spent a lot of time in Washington politics his law practice what have you and his wife and his daughter Jesse she got divorced and she basically lived with her parents with her two kids for a couple decades I think and Jesse and Roberts wife's name was also married for marries in the Lincoln family they wanted to move to Washington so they bought a house I think there's a 2013 end street in Washington in 1911 and they owned that until Mary Harlan Lincoln died in 1936 and Robert was very sad they lived in Chicago for 50 years but I've seen some interesting newspaper articles you know Robert would just walk the streets you know he just he was just a normal guy he just wanted to kind of be a normal guy and so every once in a while the Washington Post or the Washington star would stay sometimes you'll see a very quiet elderly gentleman with a white beard and a hat walking the streets of Georgetown and nobody would know that's the son of Abraham Lincoln so yeah actually the Roberts House ultimately was bought by Ben Bradley of the Washington Post I think he might still own it or his wife not sure but Robert had quite a connection to Washington the Lincoln Memorial Robert was intricately involved in its creation for 20 years the idea started in 1901 and Robert he knew it everybody in Washington politicians generals everybody one reason because he worked in Washington but also because everybody wanted to know him because he was the son of Abraham Lincoln and so but he was actively involved he believed he never got involved in anything about his father any statues or anything but the Lincoln Memorial he did he felt that that was kind of the one great thing that he wanted to contribute to and so you know I kind of got started it kind of stopped for a while started and stopped and ultimately when it really got underway in the late teens early 20s former President Taft was the head of the Commission and he and Robert were friends so Robert would ask him how it was going he would help him he would talk to politicians Robert offered to to of money occasionally for things although he wanted it kept out of the papers but he visited Daniel Chester French s studio and gave him tips on the statue of his father and actually most artists for you know the 60 plus years that Robert lived after the assassination they did their stuff about Abraham Lincoln and they never consulted Robert and Robert actually I once read a letter that he wrote saying you know the the Lincoln Memorial is wonderful and you know mr. French did a great job because he listened to me when I told him how my father looked nobody else has ever listened to me and that's why I hate all the art about my father so Robert actually got a pass that he and anybody he brought could tour the memorial as it was under construction at any time day or night which he one of his great prides was to bring people up there say this is where my father is going to be so yeah and then he joined the Georgetown Golf Club I think he belonged to a couple of clubs around here he loved golf he played every day as much as he could I should say until his dock he got so old his doctor said you know I'm afraid that you're gonna fall and hurt yourself and you need to stop playing golf yes yeah when Robert died he fully expected to be buried in the Lincoln tomb in Illinois there was an empty crib just for him and his wife his son Jack was already buried in the Lincoln tomb when he died Robert was minister to Great Britain and they sent the body home and took it to the Lincoln tomb but Sir Robert died and his wife Mary she was a very very religious woman she was a Christian Scientist and I've seen the letter she said I've prayed and prayed for two weeks and I the other day I had a revelation our our beloved one was his own great man and he deserves his own place in the Sun and therefore I am NOT going to bury him in Illinois and but because he was on grant staff and Secretary of War he was entitled to Arlington and you know everybody the state of Illinois they already started preparing the burial of the movement opening the tomb parades everything and the people of Illinois were furious as you can imagine so yes sir but she didn't care I'm gonna bury him here and she had it you know she paid for the tombstone and she got all the permission requisite permissions and everything and Jack was in the Lincoln tomb until 1932 she didn't want them to open the tomb just for Jack so in the 30s the the tomb was crumbling so they had to open move all the bodies so they could fix the tomb so she said well since you're opening the tomb I'm going to take my son so they brought him to Arlington but his name was not on Robert stone until the 1980s I think because these Arlington Cemetery rules for a time where no miners can be listed on a stone so Robert Todd Lincoln Beckwith the last descendant he petitioned to get that changed so now there's a little tombstone says al second on it yes sir which right not that one specifically I've heard variations of it and I've heard a lot of stories that Robert was embarrassed by his father's roots his grandparents you know poor that they were so poor live it out actually there's a great book by I think it's ed steers Lincoln legends senators boy oh boy it's gonna get mad at me I think it was this year felt Lincoln legends and it's all about the various legends of Abraham Lincoln and one is the birthplace cabin and it's a it's really fascinating the cabin I think it was the 93 World's Fair was the first time it was taken apart and taken to be exhibited as was the one-room log cabin birthplace of Jefferson Davis and they became like this traveling show and through the years all the wood just got mixed up together and you know they just here's the wood let's build a little cabin with it so you know eventually now it's in Illinois it probably wasn't the original when they took it in 93 anyways the last I think the last I knew was that in during the Civil War some soldiers found the cabins and this is where the president was born and that's the last note that I've ever seen that the original cabin was at that site but so now what's in Kentucky or Illinois it's not the original but I know Roberts from my research I don't think that he was embarrassed or humiliated by his grandparents humble beginnings there's one of the famous stories is that when Nikolai and hei were writing their book they basically you know hey wrote the chapter about Thomas Lincoln and he basically said oh he was a dumb hick hillbilly he liked to drink and party and he was shiftless he didn't really work he beat Abraham Abraham hated him horrible stuff and Robert he had the final say in their book they said you know we want you to look at what we write Robert didn't ask for it but they wanted him to do that so and he edited that chapter very heavily he said listen you know he was who he was but you know I feel bad for him because you know how was he ever to know that he now he now has to stand next to the shadow of his great son so we can't really be too harsh on the guy he lived then he did the best he could now history has shown that Thomas Lincoln was not the drunk he didn't beat his son he wasn't a shiftless near do well he was actually a hard-working farmer who was pretty successful so I've never heard that about the World's Fair although I know Robert went to the World's Fair I don't know I personally tend not to believe those stories just from everything that I've read that Robert wrote about his grandparents or his father's early childhood and actually most of the time especially in 1909 a lot of school kids wrote to Roberts can you tell me about your father and what's the best what can I learn from your father always almost every letter Robert said what you can learn from my father is that it doesn't matter where you come from you can become the president of the United States if you work hard and you believe in yourself he started with a dirt floor and he ended up in the White House so he was very proud of that actually that his father had self-taught had ascended that high sure yeah Robert Robert and his mother were incredibly close and there's a book out came out last year called the Mary Lincoln enigma that's a bunch of essays about Mary and I wrote one about Mary and Robert's relationship and I argue and that is yeah I think Robert Mary was closer to Robert then she was to Abraham in many ways during the Illinois years Lincoln was gone six to nine months of the year writing the judicial circuit and doing politics Robert was always home he became he was really his mother's best friend he was her confidante she was terrified of robbers and lightning he was the one that she always clung to when Eddie died when he was four Robert was seven he was the one Mary clung to he was the one that dealt with her and her grief Lincoln wrote off on the circuit and so they were incredibly close all their letters attest to this after the assassination they remained close Mary's letters all constantly say you know Robert is the greatest son who's ever lived and she ultimately bestows upon him the greatest compliment she can she says he grows more and more every day like his sainted father after Robert had his mother committed of course Mary got a little upset she thought she was one of her many symptoms which she was apparently and she thought he was she was also obsessed and deluded about money she always thought she was on the brink of poverty and she thought he was trying to steal for money which is where that accusation comes from is that's what Mary thought which is not true but but basically she wouldn't forgive him for it so she was in the mental institution for four months she was in the Edwards home in Springfield for another nine months under court order but in their house when she was declared restored to sanity a few months later she went to Europe in his self-imposed exile and she and Robert did not speak for five years and Robert many letters that I've seen that I think I have them all in this book here he was heartbroken you know in letters he always said someone just asked me where my mother is a nice she's somewhere in Europe I don't know because she won't speak to me and Roberts aunts Elizabeth Edwards who was Mary's sister she kept urging Robert you should you should mend fences men fed the finally Robert wrote her letter he said I have nothing against my mother I will speak to her tomorrow and not blame her for anything because I know it wasn't her fault but she won't speak to me so finally in 1881 Mary came back from Europe in 1880 she was very poor in health back problems like problems she was going blind I'm sure she missed her family as well she came back in 1881 Robert was Secretary of War and he went from Washington to Fort Leavenworth Kansas to inspect the fort and haunt his way out there he stopped in Springfield and spoke to his mother for the first time and we don't know I'm my guess is that Elizabeth Edwards arranged the meeting but we know that Robert would have done it I think she probably smoothed out Mary to eventually accept talking to Robert so after they reconciled Robert visited her about every two weeks and then she spent six or eight months in New York getting medical treatment and when she was in New York he and his family visited her every week until she died so they mended fences and but you know it was it's really sad to read the letters as she was so angry at him which is you know when I wrote this book I spoke with many psychiatric medical experts and my main expert he said he had a case just like this a woman clearly had you know various issues schizophrenia or something her son had her committed against her will nowadays you know she was committed for two weeks for observation she was given medication and the medication even her out and the doctor told me he said she admits to me yes I needed help the medication is helping me I feel great but she never forgave herself for having her committed even though she knows it was the right thing so it's very sad i sir there's been a lot so much speculation and discussion over beers what Abraham like that his voice sounded like no recordings properly and also not that I've seen I have to admit after my book was done I stumbled across a reference in the Columbia University library collections of a supposed recording of Robert Lincoln but I haven't had honestly haven't had time to go look into it so supposedly there is that's the only thing I've ever found you know he was at the dedication of the Lincoln Memorial so there is I think video footage of that and there obviously there's a lot of photographs but I think there's video of him when he arrived and when he walked up the steps with military helped him up there wearing a a top hat that I discovered with any last year to that that was probably one of his father's hats that he wore they're kind of an homage to his father which is pretty neat but I think Daniel day-lewis probably pegged Lincoln's voice pretty great in the in the movie that was uncanny how amazing he was as Lincoln I've been studying like it for 20 years that was Lincoln it was just crazy yes many Roosevelt's revered Abraham Lincoln and so he you know he wanted to get to know his son Robert Lincoln Robert had met him multiple times in Washington trying to think of the chronology here so I'm correct they had many when when McKinley was shot Robert was on his way to Buffalo he was not in Buffalo he got to Buffalo he went to the Milburn house and as he came out he met with Vice President Roosevelt then he you know said thank God the presidents okay of course all the doctor oh he'll be fine don't worry about it and so he had a brief chat with Roosevelt and then of course the president died Robert wrote him it's wonderful letter I think it's here actually in the Roosevelt Papers in the manuscript room where he said when I saw you that day outside of the Milburn House neither one of us had expected the president to die you know I will not congratulate you for becoming the president because I know better than anybody what a horrible job that is and I don't envy you your position so they became they became somewhat friends they wrote occasional letters and Robert went to the White House for functions occasionally during Roosevelt's I think his bid for election you know for I think it was he started claiming the mantle of Lincoln for his progressive policies Robert was a conservative Republican all his life diehard conservative Republican whatever Republican was at that time and he was furious and he publicly wrote letters saying you know Roosevelt Cornel Roosevelt doesn't know what he's talking about my father would be aboard if he knew that this man is claiming his mantle and they had a little public spat in the newspapers and Roosevelt basically said well Robert doesn't know what he's talking about I know I know who I am so then what then they cleared that up and an actually really fascinating story I found during my research the 1912 presidential nominating convention Roosevelt Taft and whomever somebody else laughter anyways you know Taft and Roosevelt were trying to maneuver each other out of the nomination and Roosevelt he tried to finagle a group of members to nominate Robert Lincoln for president that was the fifth time and Robert was 60 something he said listen I I don't want to be President but I could tell you right now if I were to get the job it would kill me because I'm not in good health and no things Roosevelt's ploy failed his delegate could not get in there to nominate Robert Lincoln but you know it's kind of an interesting thing to know what may have happened if he had actually gotten into the hall so they had a very interesting relationship Roosevelt thought Robert was one of the best ministers to Great Britain that he had ever seen in his adult life yes sir with taps yeah they were they were very good friends actually Taft was the first American president to really play golf and Robert was an avid golfer and so they became golfing buddies and Taft went to Hill Dean a number of times basically just to play golf they work Roberts supported him for re-election gave money to his campaign invited him to Manchester Vermont during the campaign I think he voted for him he always admired Taft thought he was a good president thought he was a good Supreme Court justice but it was you know kind of a it was more than an acquaintance but not a deep friendship you know they they knew each other I mean I think their real connection was golf mostly but at that time Robert really hated Teddy Roosevelt so he very vociferously were supported Taft questions yes sir thank you the grade well sure yeah Roberts wife marry Harlan Lincoln was very sickly woman always sick as was her mother actually and I honestly I never say what her illness is could because I actually don't know they were not Robert was a private person his wife was maniacally private person and I think she also had some social anxiety disorder - she hated public events and so I actually don't know it's just she was always sick now or else she was she was with her mother who was sick so she was caring for her mother and then she was always sick and she and her mother they'd be sick together and they'd go out to them yeah they'd go to the rocky mountains to recover and and so yeah it's um but it actually was about the 1880s or so so throughout the 70s and 80s she was sick all the time and then after about the 1880s that sickness really drops way off and I don't know if she grew out of something she may have found actually a doctor who actually knew what he was doing I'm not sure but she was still had a lot of illnesses throughout her life but nothing like that decade 70 to 80 was pretty awful and a lot of people have said well she was an alcoholic I mean may have heard that I think that came from Beijing Baker's a book as well not one shred of proof for that and I've searched through the entire Hill Dean house the hildie and historians search through the entire house no bottles no receipts no records no letters no nothing but Peggy Beckwith Roberts granddaughter has a membership card to Alcoholics Anonymous so apparently that's the proof that Peggy was a man therefore marry Harlan was drunk so I don't know she was just sick now the second part was the insanity of the Brad wells yeah the Brad Wills were pretty interesting couple you know they were both lawyers Myra Bradwell was a feminist an abolitionist amazingly brilliant woman but I think that they were just out for themselves you know they they played it like they were trying to protect Mary from Robert but really they were just getting their own publicity for they ran a newsletter and he was a political official and then after Mary got out they didn't speak to her for I think over a year now one thing I fear eyes in my book there may have been some kind of an agreement between them and Robert where Robert said I will let her go if you just go away which would make sense but I think that they were kind of self-serving opportunists myself but and yet they were also her friends you know eventually they all reconnected and up until the about 1880 I think was the last letter I saw they actually correspondent and the Brad Wells granddaughter inherited numerous items that Mary Lincoln had given Myra Bradwell and she gave them lot to Chicago and some to Springfield Illinois the supposedly the pen that Lincoln used to sign the Emancipation Proclamation supposedly she had that oh there was a big thing someone else said no I've got the pen you don't know who done it yeah it's a sordid world yeah but but now so they were interesting people but that was it was through their descendant that I actually found the trunk full of Mary's letters from the asylum that had been missing for almost 100 years that I found was through their descendant their last living descendant he had some documents about it that led me on the trail we can kill back some of his father's papers for the reason years after well when he donated the papers to the Library of Congress he had a stipulation in there that the papers could not be publicly opened for so 27 years 21 years until after he had died or after they had been after he had died and that was you know there's been a lot of theories about he was trying to deny access to people historians whatever basically what as a Victorian gentleman and he puts her right in the document he says but there are things in here that could be embarrassing or damaging to people who are still living or to their children and I just I don't want to put them through that so by that time they'll all be dead and then we can all see the papers so now after he died you know his family still owned a ton of stuff from the Lincoln family so Mary Harlan Lincoln donated a number of items to the Library of Congress after Robert's death after she died her daughter Mamie Mary a sham donated items her son Lincoln I shoulda nated items the two Beckwith children I don't know that they ever did they hated being they really didn't care about being Lincoln so there was just that one just to protect people who might be referenced in the papers cut it off all right thank you all so much I'm sorry I could talk forever all right yes I can just keep talking this has been a presentation of the Library of Congress 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Channel: Library of Congress

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Keywords: Library of Congress, Robert Todd Lincoln (Author)

Id: 5-Hn0BaYe7I

Length: 62min 18sec (3738 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 18 2014