(uptempo music) - Hello everyone, I'm Stephen Galloway, and welcome to Close-Up with
Hollywood Reporter Directors. I'd like to welcome Angelina Jolie, Guillermo del Toro, Greta
Gerwig, Patty Jenkins, Joe Wright, and Denis Villeneuve. You're on a lifeboat. You happen to have a
DVD or Blu-Ray player. - Oh no!
- We're gonna do that? That's not fair.
- Oh no. - [Stephen] What film are you
gonna take with you to watch? Let's start with you, Guillermo. - Oh, why?
(laughs) - [Denis] You're the
cinephile of the group. (laughs)
- Why? Emotionally, I will answer something completely non-prestigious. Yeah, it's because of what
it did when I was a teenager, The Road Warrior. (laughs) It completely destroyed my brain. - [Stephen] Wow, I thought you
were gonna say Frankenstein. - And, that's the problem. The other one is I would do that. I would take James Whale's Frankenstein. And, it's just The Road Warrior,
for me, it's the first time I noticed how the camera worked and moved and it was a ballet. And, I would probably
change my mind half way through the life boat journey. I would go, "Where is Frankenstein?" (laughs) - Have you ever met George Miller? - I met and I worship
George Miller, and I intend, my sabbatical this year
I'm going to do two two week interviews. One with Michael Mann and
one with George Miller purely about the craft to
publish them in book form just because I wanna talk with them about what we never talk about,
which is the craft. Lenses, cameras, why,
why push, why not push, when crane, when dolly, why not? To talk about the aspects of or painting that nobody talks about
which is vigor of the trays, amount of paint. We always discuss movies sort of in a liturgical way.
- If you had one question to ask George Miller what would it be? - To whom? - If you had one question
to ask George Miller what would it be? - Do you like me? (laughs) - [Stephen] You're so insecure. (laughs) - Dad?
(laughs) (laughs) - What's your lifeboat film? - Oh god, you're going to jump to me next. I'm like sitting here
listening to him the whole time and I'm like, "Oh my god, so many movies "go through my head." 'Cause there's the, I have all my-- - Only one.
- One. - I Know Where I'm Going,
Powell and Pressburger. Like, I just love that movie
and also like, there's the design of it fascinates me
because it's like so romantic but you never notice that it was really becoming that romantic. - It was so romantic, Powell
and Pressburger, so romantic. - And so good, and timeless.
- What did it teach you that you then brought to your work? - The pocket of emotion
of romance because I love romantic films and I love romantic things. - What do you mean by
the pocket of emotion? - It's the space where you
get it and it's sincere and it's real and you just keep
it from hitting the ground. It's almost the electricity of
what love is, to me, is it's when fear is mixed with
desire and it's (vocalizing). And so, there was something
so incredible about that moment, you never saw
it coming and all of a sudden you were (vocalizes) these two
people are just sitting there and you're like (gasps)
those people are meant to be together, oh my god. And then, the storm and, you know, anyway. - They do it in other
films, too, they do that. - Oh yeah, and they're so incredible. - Masterful.
- Such incredible filmmakers. - Is love in real life
ever what it is in films? - I think so.
- Yes. - But, I think too often--
- Good answer. - Well anyway, I have theories about love but the fear and desire
being equaled is the thing and I think film allows that to happen, but that's what it is in real life, too. Although, we always wanna shut it down. And, your desire is always
to get, no, upper hand and then as soon as you do
it's not so much love anymore. - I love that answer. - So, I think it's like
film allows people to feel comfortable extending it longer. - But, just to talk about
romance, I'm not choosing this on my boat, but Brief
Encounters that David Lean movie when they're talking and
she has that moment where she looks at him, he's
describing something and she looks at him and she
says, "You looked like "a little boy just then." And then, he looks at her
and it's like too late, they're already in love and it's too late. And, it's like that moment
of like they both realized what had happened and they both knew that the other one knew it. And then, they have to go
and it's like all of sudden you're like oh no, you and I,
now you're already in love. Anyway--
- And your boat, what is your boat? - [Greta] Singing in the Rain. - Aw.
- That's a nice one. - I mean, if you're on a boat-- - Don't doubt yourself, it's a really good one.
- If you're on a boat. - Do you find that you're
trying to imitate the best in another work or that your
job is to react against it? 'Cause there is that
theory that great artists actually have another artist
that they react against. - Against.
- Against. - Mm, but why just one? It would be hard to pick just one that you're reacting against. - There's a lot. - But, I think we're
always, I think it's the, I think you're always absolutely studying and paying homage
to the people before you and then turning it just
a little bit yourself. Like, that's the whole game, to me. - But, it happens, sorry to
interrupt the boat thing, but has it happened to you
that there are other directors that you start against
and you end up realizing they're your favorite. And you go, "I love this guy." - They're all silent, that
means you're the only one. - Yeah, not so much, not so much. There are filmmakers that
I have aspired to be like. Personally, very personally
it's probably a reaction against my father, as well,
his work, who was a puppeteer. - Freud would have
something to say about that. (laughs) - Yeah, he was a puppeteer and he made very beautiful marionette shows. He founded the first
purpose built puppet theater in London in 1961. But, one of the burden's
of his career was the fact that everyone saw puppetry
as being a kind of a children's entertainment,
and he considered it to be a fine art. And so, a lot of it is a
kind of reaction against his perceived failure, as well. - And react against it meaning what? - Determination to do better. - Oh yeah, your Anna Karenina
has a little bit of that. - No, no it's all about puppetry. It's all about how, you know.
- Oh wow. - It all comes from puppetry, really. - Would you chose the lifeboat film with a puppet or without? - Would I choose what? - Your lifeboat film with a puppet or without.
- Without, definitely. - It would be what? - It would be probably Wings of Desire by Wim Wenders.
- Wow, yeah. - Which I love because of its humanity. And, I think on a lifeboat I might need to be reminded of my love of humanity. So, I'd take that one. Maybe even also Brief Encounter, as well. - Denis?
- Yeah, I was saying I think I'm reacting as when I was a very, right out of film school I had I would say the burden of being liked,
I made a short film. I was liked by an older filmmaker at home which Pierre Perrault who
was like he's a master who was like doing documentaries. And, in the 60s he was like
part of the film movement, realistic film movement
where they were the first one to have actually taking the
camera out of the tripod and go with real people. And they had made a fantastic movie called Pour La Suite Du Monde on a small island in Quebec
where they spent three years shooting a fisherman there.
- Oh yeah. - And, they made a feature
film there that was like, it's considered almost a masterpiece. But, for some reason he
liked me and he was very sad that I was going to do fiction
instead of documentary. He was like he didn't,
because for him fiction was like why are your crying
when Catherine Deneuve is crying it's like it's
fake, when you can real. Because, his movies are
very (mumbles), very strong. And so I have all my live
I felt like I owe him a lot because I learned
a lot working with him. But, I always felt that I was the bad son. (laughs) The one who went to do
fiction instead because I was attracted to fiction-- - So, would you chose
his film to take with you as a kind of penance? - That's a good, that's a-- - How deep does your guilt go? (laughs) - There is trilogy about
that island which are amongst the most beautiful movies I've seen yeah, about fishermen and I
think, yeah, I might, that could be the answer, yeah. Or, to prepare me for to death it would be 2001: a Space Odyssey.
(laughs) It's like my favorite
film of all time, I think. And a one that I discovered
through television when I was young,
- Oh wow. - not allowed to watch it
because it was too late in the night for me. - Forbidden fruit are always the best. - And still to this
day is one of my movies I revisit with great joy. It's a very existential journey. I think it could be a
good one to prepare me to passage if you're on
a lifeboat without hope. - I don't know, I mean,
it's a really interesting question because it's
not like a favorite film. It's like, if you were
at the end of you life and you had something and
this only thing that was-- - It's a horrible question. - That's the question--
- Sorry. - It's more the film that
prepares you for death or prepares you for or
helps you through solitude. - I would till choose The Road Warrior. (laughs) - Which is actually a
bit of a survivalist. - Oh yeah. - Like, it's so it's interesting. So, I really, I don't know
if I'd want to be watching movies on your lifeboat. I think it'd be important to not go crazy. - That might be a possibility. - I mean, you know I love Sidney Lumet. So, I love The Hill and
I love The Hill because I love seeing, and maybe it would help on the lifeboat to see
something just about how you manage through
surviving against all odds. I love Milos Forman as
we were talking about I love Amadeus, I love Cuckoo's Nest. I love the idea of
Cuckoo's Nest might just make me feel full of a
certain level of humanity but also maybe I'd be
feeling like I'm going a bit crazy on my life
raft and I wanna like connect to something that feels alive. But, my real answer is
I think I don't know. It's hard with, film
does take out of yourself and I sometimes am
somebody that can't listen to music 'cause I get
too influenced by it. - I am the same.
- Are you? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Like, I can't, I actually have none. People think I don't
like music but if I hear certain music I'll get
dark or I'll get light or I'll start to or I'll start to feel-- - You mean emotionally? - Emotionally, so I don't,
I tend to not regularly watch film because-- - You don't, huh? - I get very swayed by
things. It effects me, so. - Does the actual process of
directing effect you, too? - Yes.
- I mean, you did a very heavy emotional drama in Cambodia. How did that impact you personally? - Well, very much and I
think like for everybody here and for those of us who
acted and spend less time on a film when you direct it's
gonna be years of your life. And, I think you're always
gonna be doing it well if you need to do it and
you need to do it well. In Cambodia this is a
subject matter that has been debated, this history is
not known internationally. It's not know and it's
something that has made me upset when I was in country. I've seen how it effects the people. And, I have a son who
deserves to know his history. And, I want him to know what
his birth parents went through. And, I want this country
to speak, but did I feel I had the right to be the one doing that? It was hard every day to
know if I was good enough or the right person to do it. But, I did feel so honored
to be welcomed into another culture and allowed to
witness and bear witness and encourage and share and really
put forward their history as this is what it will be. And, this is what many
of the young people, 70% of Cambodians are under 30. So, this is how they're
gonna know their history. (speaking foreign language) (footsteps) (explosion) - What changed in you in the
course of making that film? - We had this day where
we were gonna blow up Mu's children, it was at
night and then suddenly we were gonna have explosions
and we were all gonna run and the kids. And, I got there with
crew and said we've got X amount of hours with the kids. We've gotta get that
thing up, we hardly have any of the other, the
logistics are impossible. You'd get the wire up the thing. And, it blows and it's not big enough, we gotta do it again. Where are the kids? And suddenly, somebody said they can hear children crying in the jungle. And, we didn't have enough
lights to light up the jungle. And, there are landmines in the country. And, I said, "This isn't,
gather the children. "We gotta count the kids." And we counted the kids
and everybody was there. And then, somebody came
up to me and they said, "We're Buddhist, people died on this land. "They're hearing crying
because it's the spirit "of the ancestors and you blew a tree." And so, we stopped production
and I got incense and water and got on my knees with the rest of them and we took the time to
think about the people who had been there before,
what we were doing, and just stopped everything
and then carried on. And, it went easily and beautifully. I was there just taking and
making and moving and shaping instead of just understanding
really my place in not just in the country or
in a moment as a director but as a human being
in a moment with other human beings making something. - I had in the past a similar experience, but a smaller scale. However, I did a movie in the Middle East about the war of Lebanon. I was just wondering being
a foreigner coming there how did the people,
how did they felt about you making a movie. - How do they feel about you, first. - Me, the thing is that what
moves is that I felt that there was a lot of willing to share. They were happy to share their stories. They were happy that we
were talking about it. They were very, for them it
was a very positive experience from what I received as a director. So I felt welcome talking
about the story about other people even if I was
like technically a tourist going there, I mean. - Have you ever felt not welcome? - I made a movie once about
Montreal, in Montreal, in my home town about a school massacre. And, it was one of the first ones that happened in the history. And, it was a misogynist,
it was a young man, crazy, that went to a school Polytechnique,
and killed only women. And, that was very horrifying in 1989. And, I decided to make a movie about that and people thought I was,
because personally I have things to say about that
and a lot, I will say anger and sadness, and strong emotions. And, it was a trauma and
sometimes trauma I think, cinema can be very powerful
to revisit a trauma and try to let emotions out of it. But, I felt resistance from my community at the beginning, a lot. I was not very welcome
to make that movie at the beginning, I must say,
in my hometown, yeah. - Were you welcomed by Warner Brothers when you made Wonder Woman? You're entering the studio system, you'd done Independent films. - I was, I mean my story to get in there was a long story because
I had first talked to them about it in like 2005. And then, there were so
many different chapters of why they were and when
they weren't going to make it. And so, it's funny how I feel
about these kinds of movies, these big tent pole movies. I feel like it's more
like dating than it is like hey, spot my pitch, it's serious. It's a serious commitment. You're seriously signing
onto the same thing. So, I had almost done other
big movies and had seen very little disagreements
can mean, "Wow, I'm not "the right director for
you wanna do after all." And so, when I was meeting
with them at that point I was really cautious. And at first, when I was
first was meeting with them they wanted to do something different. And, I was ah, it's a
shame but I don't think we are the right match. You have to do what you have to do and that's not quite right. By the time that they came
back and they had realized they wanted to do something
which was very similar to what I'd been saying I
wanted to do for a long time it was a much different
conversation because then they were like, "We
really wanna do that now." And, I was like, "You
really wanna do this, "because we only have this amount of time "and that's exactly
what I would wanna do?" "Yes," so I was extremely welcome. Like, I was extremely
welcome, I was very supported because all of that was behind us. (explosions) (gunfire) (explosions) (grunts)
(dramatic music) (glass clatters) (dramatic music) (speaking foreign language) (grunts) (Wonder Woman theme music)
(shouts) It's the biggest advice I
ever give young filmmakers is like pick the right
projects and take it seriously because you don't wanna
end up in a bad marriage. You don't wanna be like idealistic and say I can change their minds. Maybe can't and if you can't
then you're on that ride. So, it was a wonderful experience. I don't think it's always that
way, but because of the fact there was such clarity about
what we were doing going in. Then, I just did it. - In 25 years I've had one
single bad creator experience. It was 1997 at Miramax Dimension. And, never again, I learned
a great word was just no. - Right, yeah.
- Which is the same in every language. (laughs) And, the thing that I
agree completely with what you're saying is those small
disagreements, if you're not frontal and immediate it's
like adopting a baby tiger. A year later that baby
tiger eats your face. (laughs)
(mumbles) - I was just raising a
flag about this recently when we were talking
about different artists to sign on together for the next thing. And, as some little thing
came up and one person said one thing and I was
saying something different and everybody was like,
"But, you guys are saying "the same thing." And I was like, "No, no, no,
no we're not, no we're not. "Wait, let's get into this right now." And, we ended up deciding
not to work together this person and I because I
was like, "But if you really "mean that, if you're always
gonna wanna go that way "and I'm always gonna wanna go this way "let's talk about it
right now, because like "let's not find ourself on a
battlefield down the road." Like, those things are
serious, that strategy is like important, because you're
always gonna hit those things anyway, but yeah those tiny
things turn into giant tigers. Because people mean what
they mean, you know. - Yeah, and down the line
when given the opportunity to duke it out they will duke it out. Like, it starts super cordial,
- Yeah, yeah. - And then later, it's boom. - This was over which film? - It was Mimic, and we started,
I mean there was a fantastic moment in which, for those
millions of people that haven't seen it it's about
giant insects, and there was a moment in which we developed
the creature bit by bit over the course of a year and
half, something like that. I do the first test and I
get a phone call saying, "It looks like a giant bug." I said, "It is a giant bug." (laughs) And, I went, "Oh god, this
is going to be interesting," and it was. It's horrible, the myriad
of horrible anecdotes that come from that movie, you know? But, I learned one thing
and it was an epiphany. I said, I lost this battle,
that battle, but I look at the images and I
look at the camera work and I say those I won completely. It looks like I wanted it. The language of camera
is the way I wanted it. And, I learned, okay there
is a realm that is seldom accessed but in analysis and
creation which is the visual. I mean, it's funny we are
in an audiovisual medium and we seldom talk about that. But, that's why I'm so
fixated on content I'm forming one in the same because I had
that horrible epiphany after. - So, thanks to Miramax. - No, I learned a lot
from, you learn more from the horror than you
learn from the success. (upbeat music) - What did you learn when from
directing your first film? - Well, I learned that I could do it. I mean, I thought I could
do it but I think you don't quite known until you're on
the other end of something like that, that you can do it completely. You sort of have to take the
leap and hope that there's a parachute attached. I mean, one part of my
experience of being, of learning how to direct
was being on film sets as an actor. Also, in particularly
early films I made I wrote them and produced them and held a boom and held a camera and
did everything because there was nobody to do anything
because we had no money. But, I've been so lucky
to be on different sets with different directors
and DPs and all of these different people who
took me under their wing and explained to me what they were doing, how they were lighting
a scene, where they were putting the booms, how we
were actually getting it. I always hear about guys
whose parents got them little Super 8 cameras and
they started making films. And, it's not, I mean, I'm
sure my parents would have gotten me them if I'd ask for it. But, it wasn't something
that you gave girls as much. But, what I did was put on
plays with everyone I knew. And, I would put on plays with my friends. - This is a very male oriented business. Did that make it hard to get a very female centered film off the
ground with Lady Bird? - Yes.
- How hard was it to get off the ground? - Well, I mean, it's
a female centered film that is not important with
a capital I that people could identify as, "Oh, this is worthy." - It's Wonder Woman. - Or, just that it didn't,
it's about people's lives in a quotidian way. It's not about something
so large and I feel like as a writer and as a
director I'm picking up little tiny pebbles. - [Lady Bird] I wish that you liked me. - Of course I love you. (clicks) - But, do you like me? - I want you to be the very
best version of yourself that you can be. - What if this is the best version? - When I was taking the
script around and because it's a love story between
a mother and a daughter I remember every man I
talked to who was raised with sisters or who had a
daughter said, "I know this. "That's my wife and my
daughter," or "that's my sister "and my mom." And guys who didn't, as they said, "Do women fight like this?" - Oh wow. - I was like, well you've
never seen this because why would you know that this
is what this relationship is. That being said I mean
I did, once it happened, I was not asked to change
what the script was at all. I knew that when things
came up that were problems or difficulties or something
went awry that that was not a deviation from the path,
that that was the path. And, I had that, and for
me that was very helpful because it didn't feel like,
"Oh God, the whole thing "is going to fall apart." It was like, "That is
what it's going to be. "We're going to lose that
location and this person "it won't work and we're gonna
have to move this around." But, in that way I didn't
have a moment of like I had no idea that this
was going to happen. I had a much, I think,
more strong sense of the problems are the road. - That's a Buddhist saying,
is the obstacle is the path. - And always, the obstacle gives
you solutions that you find are far more interesting
- Better. - And far more crazy.
- They're there for a reason. - How did that happen on Darkest Hour? - A better example would
be the steady came shot in Atonement which was--
- During the battle. - Yeah, on Dunkirk beach
which was purely a result of the fact that we only had
one day to shoot that scene. And, with Darkest Hour the
film was set in May 1940, which was the highest May on record, and we were shooting in
December and January. (laughs) And so, we had to find a
way of kind of expressing the heat and the claustrophobia. And so, Bruno Delbonnel
and I came up with this aesthetic lighting wise
which was all about very, very dark shadows
and then these extremely hot spots of light coming
through the window. Which created the
atmosphere of heat and also the claustrophobia and so
there were very, very few exterior shots in the movie. - You've wanted this
your entire adult life. - No, she's the nursery
it's if the public want me. - It's your own party to whom you'll have to prove yourself. - Oh, I'm getting the job only because the ship is sinking. It's not a gift, it's revenge. - Let them see your true
qualities, your courage. - My poor judgment.
- Your lack of vanity. - Yeah, my iron will.
- Your sense of humor. - Ho, ho, ho. (sighs) - Now go.
- Oh. - Be.
- Be what? - Be yourself. - What was the biggest problem you had to solve on Blade Runner, Denis? - For me, I would say the
toughest thing as a director is like because technically
it's things are you can do it, you can do everything. The only thing that I cannot
do is to act for the actor. And, casting is like massively important, but the first take, first you know you listen. And, 99% of the time it's Christmas, but what happens if it goes wrong? First scene, that's my biggest
nightmare as a director. - And, did it happen on Blade Runner? - And it happened that
one moment that I said, "Okay, I was wrong," and I was not able to bring that artist
where it needed to be. At the end of the day it's okay because I push, I push, I push, I push, I push, and I was able to, but that
for me is the nightmare. - Before I directed, I
mean, I'd been secretly taking notes all a long
time but then I actually had real phone conversations
with a lot of directors I know who I've both worked
with and just people I know. And, I got direct advice, but
some of it was very specific like someone told me if
you don't like a shot just start turning off
lights because you probably have too many lights on
and it gives you a second to figure out what you
don't like about it, which I've used. But somebody told me
anyone is replaceable if they're hurting the movie. And, you just, if they're hurting it it's you have to.
- And, I agree with you. Yah, on a big movie like that I learned that same thing and saw that. It's a massive organism
and you have to be-- - It's so huge. - You have to be a manager
in a whole other level of you have to identify
where the problem is. - It's not a troupe. - And deal with because you can't have, there's not enough--
- And, in your case the problem was what? - I mean, I had various
little ones, but I had various little interesting massive
group dynamics where I was like this whole group of people
works together great and now all of a sudden
they're all complaining about each other. Where's the, oh it's you,
it's you, you have a problem. And, I tried to fix the
problem and I couldn't fix the problem and then I
had to get rid of that person. But, it's the same thing,
I was like, I understand why you're doing it and I
feel for you as a person and all of that. But, you're a disruptive
personality in the midst of hundreds and hundreds
of people who need to go to work everyday and
we just don't have time. - I think one of the things
that is the hardest thing about being a director that
I have is, and a good lesson at one point for me, there's
that moment where you at least when you're beginning
and you really want to, 'cause you do, it's like a family. And, you want to keep
everybody in the family happy. And, you want everybody in the family to take care of each other. You feel very much, especially
if you're a producer, directing, and everything,
but really you are the one who's taking the place
of the head of the family so you better be responsible to everybody, make sure everybody's okay. And, I think one of the
hardest things is also your instinct to when you have
to push your family, right? So, whether it's you
need that one extra hour or you know the actress or
actor is in so much pain 'cause they don't want to
have to keep doing this, or this person is this, or
you're gonna have to push your crew and you know they'd love to say, "Come on, just let us go home." Or not even the length but
even just the way you have to push 'em to say "this
is not gonna be easy. "We're gonna have to do this," and they're not gonna like it. And, I think when I first
started I was a little bit more aware of not wanting
to upset, I wanted everybody to feel like this is
the greatest experience and the greatest days of our life, right? And then, I realized, you know
what, at the end of the day there can be days that
they don't like me because I'd rather them not like me
and not wasted five months of their life.
- Yeah, yeah. - Because I want them to
be proud of the end result. I know that real leadership
is pushing people to do something that at the
end of the day they're happy they did and they're proud
of and they're happy to be a team and work as a team. Not to try--
- Yeah, you're not there to make friends.
- You're not there to make friends and
that's a very hard thing. - Also, to give people a sense
of ownership of the film. - Yeah.
- Always, always. - Like, so that it's not
my film it's our film and that even the caterers
have a sense of ownership and excitement about
what they're engaged in. And, if you then manage to create that sense of ownership then they're willing to go that extra.
- They wanna work harder. Yeah, exactly, and then they help you. - And, what was the worst day for you. - There's been so many,
(laughs) 25 years, it's been 25
years and I've gone through basically everything movies
that are 19.5 or 195 million. And, I've gone through all--
- How about The Shape of Water I know you had-- - Shape of Water, I'll tell you one, everything, everything.
- Sandstorms. - I had a first day that
I cannot speak about. (laughs) First day, second day worse. And it went, of 65 days we
had 64 really difficult days and one day was easy. But, we had a great example,
there's a moment where Michael Shannon parks
in front of the cinema, stops, runs up the stairs. We do a Texas switch 'cause
the staircase was fake and I have another guy
dressed like him on the other staircase which was
separate and I do a Texas switch and he goes to the door. And I said, "I got it," and
my DP says, like all DPs always say, "Get another one." I said, "I got it." He said, "Well, take two." I go, "okay." And, we had scouted and
there was a great crane I wanted to do, a techno
that a post was in the way I couldn't do. I said, "No, let's move to the crane." He says, "No, get another one." We go do the second one and
this is one of those days, many things happened that
day, this is one of them, Shannon parks the car, gets out. The car stays in drive,
it's an old car 1962, so anyway the car continues going. Michael runs to try to stop the car. The car drags Michael,
- Oh God. - In the middle of the rain. Michael lets go, the
car hits the first post, a post destroys it, a shower of sparks, but also the second
post is coming straight for the video assist. And, everybody just says, "Run." Now, I've never run for
anything in my life. (laughs) I am 53 I have never, I
don't know what that is. And, I go, "I'm gonna die." And, the car stops on
the second and final post which is anchored to the ground. And, everybody's in despair and horrified. Michael is, "Oh, what has happened?" And I go and say, "Now,
I can make my shot." (laughs) - 'Cause he got rid of the post. (laughs) - So, was that the one good day? (laughs) - That day turned good. There were many, many,
the first day was brutal. - That's crazy.
- What was the toughest day for you on Wonder Woman? - I think it was, I mean, oh you know what it pretty much was that
it's funny I really believed in shooting on location. And so, at the end of the
movie there's a farewell between Diana and Steve
Trevor that I insisted upon shooting on a real air base
in the middle of the winter in the weather because I just
know what happens on set. What happens on set is you
end up turning the fan down because it's messing up sound
and then people are standing and it's just not gonna be the same. And, it had these incredible,
this airbase had these incredible bunkers for all the planes. And, shot on film I
knew that we would never quite know what that would
look like if we tried to replicate it digitally in post. So, it was shooting in
the middle of the night in the cold with Gal Gadot
in a Wonder Woman costume. And, it was such an important
performance and it was exactly what you were talking
about where it was like, and I go through this all the
time where I'm sort of like and there's something
almost parental about being the director sometimes where you're like, I have to be the one. I don't wanna be here
either, I wanna go home, too. But, I have to be the
one that makes this worl because this is really
important to whole movie and if we don't do this then
all of us will have done all of this other work and
it won't have paid off. So, I have to be the one, you've got to go back out there again. Doing it to actors when
they're cold and uncomfortable is very difficult. But, it was a hard scene to
get and it was freezing cold and Gal was literally
nearly like losing it. She was like shaking and
it was like, we gotta go, we gotta do it. (vocalizes) take the coat
off and she's standing there and Chris is tired and I
think that was the hardest day just because I really hated
doing it to everybody, but it just really mattered. And, I knew if we tried
to do pick ups later it was never going to be the same. - Denis, on Blade Runner
what were you most pleased about in that film? - Actors, I'm very proud of the actors, and more specifically young actresses. There are four of them that
did, I think, a fantastic job. And Ryan, Ryan was my muse. - Where were you, Clanton? Must have been brutal. - Plan on taking me in, huh, take a look inside? - Mister Morton, if
taking you in is an option (thuds) I would much prefer
that to the alternative. - Something that deeply
touched me was Harrison Ford because I felt that, you
cannot fake that excitement or I felt he was really
sincerely happy to be there with us working at five a.m.
in the dark in the water. I felt his passion alive I felt that his fire was still there. And, you know what,
Harrison Ford was one of my childhood heroes
and I deeply loved him. And, there's a saying never
meet your heroes, isn't there? And that was, for me, it
just increased my admiration and my love for him because sincerely he's a committed artist, engaged. He was very generous. So, honestly, that was I would say-- - Among your heroes, filmic
heroes, who've you met who surprised you or was
different than you'd expected? - Can we get back to me? (laughs) - You know I can't do that. - Who was different than I expected? I don't know, maybe because
I grew up in this business a little bit with my
father I early on realized how average everybody is in this business. I never, I grew up thinking
there's nothing unbelievably special or unbelievably
different about these people except for sometimes they think they are unbelievably special. So, I think it's just whether
you're pleasantly surprised that they are other, just great people. I mean, I tend to find
that when you meet people like who's a great actor
like a Daniel Day Lewis he's a great person. And, I don't know if
it's a coincidence that some people who come across a certain way or make films with a lot
of humanity are people with a lot of humanity. Then there are really
complex artists that maybe are complex people but they're
work's really interesting. And so, I don't know, I think
I just kind of see it all kind of for what it is. I'm happy to be able to
be a part of it but I also have a kind of, I just see
everybody at this table as like moms, dads, people, women, men. And then, what comes out of
us is the best it can be. - Has anybody given you a piece of advice that you carry with you in filmmaking? - Shoot the wide shot first. (laughs) I can forget to do that
as well and then I just shoot myself into a corner. Oh, I should have just done the wide shot. - Do you storyboard? - Yeah, I do love story boarding. - Because you're so visual
and your shots are amazing. - One other thing that
surprised me when I meet like great actors is
that they want direction. And, I'm always surprised.
- Yeah, they do. - 'Cause like Gary
Oldman for me was a hero, like Harrison Ford was to
you when I was growing up. And, I thought, "Well,
I'll just have Gary will be "on set and he'll do his
thing and I'll just arrange "everything around him." And actually to discover that someone like Gary wants direction. - What was the fundamental
direction you gave him? - Energy, pace, the
rhythm of his character. I talk a lot about rhythm
when I'm directing. I find that film is most similar to music than any other art form. And so, I'm always talking
about rhythm and almost conducting a scene so that they know where the rise is and where
the fall off is and so on. It's almost, yeah, it's
almost like conducting rather than going,
talking about back stories and stuff like that which I think is fairly useless.
- Did you talk a lot about Churchill himself? - No, we talked about this
character who, for my mind, was entirely fictional. I wasn't really ever interested
in the icon of Churchill. And, one of the problems with
making British period films is that they're generally
about posh people. I don't identify--
- Well, Churchill's posh. - He's very posh, but
so I tried to just find the humanity in them. I'm not keen on method actors. I'm a bit of a method
director in the sense that I have to feel their emotions
and I have to identify very, very closely with the character and see the world as they see the world. And so really, those characters are always an expression of myself. In fact, every character
is an expression of myself because that's how I
come to understand them and then I can love them
because without understanding you can't love. And so, I try to kind of figure out how, looking for the
similarities, finding out how Churchill and I are the same. (laughs) Which is ridiculous,
ridiculous but I mean, for me the film is about doubt, right? It's about self-doubt
and its about which is, I just had an experience
of extreme self-doubt. - When was that? - I made a film called Pan
and it lost about 100 million and it was universally
slated by the critics. And, I thought, I don't
understand this world anymore and I don't know if I
want to be a part of it. - But, you take it that deep. - Yeah, yeah of course.
- You do take it that deep. I mean, people think that
you move on and if you're worth anything you don't move on. You go into a deep dark place and mourn.
- Because our filmmaking is an expression of our soul. I mean, it's who we are
at the most fundamental. It's the closest thing to
my essence there is really. Because I'm not very
good at expressing that in other ways. I'm not very good at talking to people. I'm not very good at dinner parties. That's where I allow
myself to be revealed. - Well, you must have things
that you, like with critics, who didn't like and it
almost made you, if you sure you loved it. There's the noise of the
crowd and then there's the singular voice and is there that too, have you had that?
- When has it, for instance, made you feel stronger
about your convictions? - I had that on a film I did By The Sea which I don't think is a
perfect film, by any means, but I had moment when I
put it forward, even when we were making it people were saying, "well people aren't gonna
understand this," or "this isn't gonna be taken this way," or "this is more like this
thing and that's not gonna be "what people want, or they're not gonna." But, I think I needed after Unbroken to just be an artist. It was like a talk with
myself like don't lose your sense of, you gotta
do your best and do what you feel and don't
become safe, don't become safe from this. If you become safe from this you're never gonna do anything worth
anything, you know? And, find some kind of, find
your resolve in this moment and don't and turn it into, I don't know. - Patty, have you ever
had a moment where you lost your resolve, felt
like leaving the business? - All the time, I mean, no
I really don't but I always am like I find, it's funny
because it's interesting. I never decided to be a director. It was never like, "I
wanna be a director." It's all the trappings of
being, I have to be a director to do what I want to do which
is I was at painting school and my first love with music. And, I was always
listening to music and then it finally came together when I took an experimental film course. And, I was like, "That's it." I couldn't get enough
emotion into painting. And, I didn't want to play
music, but that was my thing. And then finally, I was
like, "Whoa, I love it." So, I had to become a director to do it. I'd never like looked at the job. And so, I've definitely
had many moments where I was like, (groans) like you could just restore antiques or something. Like, are you sure you wanna? And, I'm always surprised
at it at every step. But, I mean it was a
period of time not long right before I made Wonder
Woman that the bottom had fallen out of the indie
film market completely. So, the films that I
had ready to go nobody wanted to make. They didn't even wanna read them. And, it was IPs and I meeting on IPs. And then, it was, and there
was a period of time there that I was like, (groans) "I
just wanna leave Hollywood." Like I don't know that I'm
gonna, it's ironic that I turned around and
then made Wonder Woman. But, at the moment I was like
this might not be for me. Maybe I need to move to
Europe or something because I don't know how to fit
myself into this and I can't, they don't wanna see my film and like they don't even wanna read. And so yeah, I definitely
had a pretty dark moment right before I made Wonder
Woman where I was like I'm having, where, why,
I can't find the fit. (upbeat music) - [Stephen] If you left
film what would you do? - I wouldn't leave film,
first of all, because I love, I like truly love
it so much and it just gets better all the time. The more I'm like, (vocalizes) like that, like finally like now I
know how to, oh now I can, it just gets better the
more facile your skills get and the more you can try
new things in different ways it gets better. But, I'd be a psychologist. - [Joe] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - 'Cause it's my interest in art and film is greatly fueled on the
other side by my curiosity about people which is why I'm interested in telling their stories
whether it be about why you would become that serial killer or what it would feel like
to have tremendous power. - Greta, what about you what
would you do if you left film? - Oh, well my first love
was actually theater more than anything else,
the theater and dance. And, I didn't know movies
were made by people. I thought they were handed down from gods. I mean, I genuinely, I knew,
I knew people must have made them but I didn't know who they were. And, it wasn't until I was
an adult that I realized that oh these are made by people. And, part of it was I
started watching films that weren't products, they had
personality behind them. And, I hadn't really seen quite that. Like, in New York there's
a Film Forum, an Anthology Film Archives, a Museum of
Moving Image and I started to see these very
particular strange movies that I wasn't totally
sure what to make of. But, they felt like--
- Like what? - I remember the first
time I saw Tropical Malady the Apichatpong film--
- Weerasethakul, yeah. - Yeah, and I thought
it made me angry because it's a bifurcated structure
and I'd never seen anything like it. And, I was like, "What is this? "It's clear to me that
it's clear to him but "I can't figure it out." And, I went back again,
and again and I had the same experience with
we were talking about Claire Denis' film Beau Travail, I sort of couldn't, but I suddenly saw
it as art as made by people. But yeah, theater and
I also think, I mean, I remember reading about
so why are there so many more computer programmers
that are men than women? There's nothing, originally
computer programmers were women because nobody
thought it was very prestigious. And then later, it became
more men and part of it was in the 70s and 80s all the
computers were marketed towards young men like, "Get
your son this computer." And then, they would learn
how to program so that by the time they got
into college they already had this basis. And so, when women would be
in programming classes and they'd come from the math
department or whatever they would be like way behind because
they hadn't had the tools. - And, sometimes you spoke of psychology, what is, do you think,
the most crucial quality that a director has to have? - [Joe] He has to think in film. - Yes.
- Yeah. - I just said he has to think
it film, that's interesting. A director has to think in film. And, I think that's rare. I don't thnk a lot of people
do, but it's not about thinking visually or
thinking dramatically. It's literally about
seeing the world as film, as an audio visual time based experience. - Ultimately fearless, I think. I think the same thing is not be afraid of because sometimes the
most brilliant things are the things that are closest
to being ridiculous. And then, if you don't know
when you have to not give in and you have to pursue it. When people talk about
vision, which I think is a very strange word, that
ayahuasca may provoke but not this industry. You just know that you're
gonna have to fight for that second ending. - It's funny, I was gonna
say responsible vision. 'Cause I think you do have to have like, I see how this film could
work out, but it has to have, you have to have some
responsibility to like the realities of filmmaking
and how that's gonna work and bravery and knowing
that you're being brave and giving it enough room to have life. So, I think, but a plan, I
think you do have to have a plan because I was amazed, the
most interesting thing in doing such a huge movie
is that there really are, there's a huge insurance policy on you and it's like you cannot
ride a bike because if you fall off that bike. And, I had a couple moments
there where I was like, "Oh my god, I'm the only
person who understands "how 17,000 pieces that
just happened in a row "are gonna fit back together again." And, it's like you have
to, you have to have that ability at some point to be like, "Oh, I remember on the
day we dropped that line" because then I said, "Oh,
that's fine I'll do it "by doing that shot over there." I don't know that I told anybody that. I know that in the edit
room, "Oh, but you know what "we're gonna do it this other way." Anyway, it would be fine
somebody else would come in and take over the movie. But, it's like. - You're talking about
practical and artistic responsibilities.
- See it, having a vision and keeping it whole. - And now, I wanna talk about
a different responsibility Kazan, many years ago,
wrote a pamphlet about what a director needed. He need to know architecture.
He needed to know art. He needed to know
literature, this, this, that. And, I showed it to a friend
of mine who is blacklisted and he said the only
thing Kazan doesn't say is he needs to know ethics. Society, at the moment, especially today we're dealing with all
sorts of ethical issues particularly about harassment. What is the director's
responsibility ethically? - You just have to be a good human being. You can demand anything
you want professionally. I think that you can be
irrational professionally and say when we're
executing this operation you need to do what you do or
you're not part of the team. You can be that hard. For example, when firing someone,
which I've done many times I insist on doing it myself. I want you to know the
studio's not forcing me. I want you to know a producer
didn't, I'm doing it. The same goes for ethics. If you tolerate something on
your set from whoever it is, it can be a star, it
can be a super producer, and you see it and you
allow it, you're more than a father figure. If you direct properly
you're are somebody-- - As a man I would say
exactly the word that would come to my mind is father. I mean, you are responsible
for the people around you. You are supposedly the
one who is directing them and trying to create a safe environment, and a creative environment. And, as man it's the thing
that can always my men the way I behave with it is as a father. - And you don't back, I mean, I've had very imposing executives, or studio heads, stars, imposing physically and in terms of their stature in the business. And, what you would normally
back down in a traffic accident you don't back down in a movie set. You go at it and you go at it-- - You're talking about
ethics, not just what you want artistically. - No, no what you want
artistically then the conversation is if you don't have anything
to say that is crucial to you and that you think some
people may walk out healed in some way or awoken in
some way or aware in some way then it shouldn't be,
and it doesn't matter if its a piece of fiction,
it's a genre or not, however it's viewed
you're saying it because you do think that film needs to exist. So, ethically, overtly
you don't have to respond to the pulsations of the
moment but I think that all of use at this table,
all the movies that were made were made specifically for
now for one or a different reasons because we feel
that they were needed now. I feel the urgent political
human need that you can see the order and
see the beauty and the divine in the other as
opposed to fear an the hatred and it was urgent. I mean, this movie was so personal to me, doing The Shape of Water,
that sometimes there are two scenes I cannot
discuss without weeping. (majestic music) (hisses) (dramatic music)
(vocalizes) - [Stephen] Why is that movie so important to you personally? - It was a moment like
Joe, a moment in which I honestly said, "Is there
a sense in doing this?" And I think that it's a medium that is not discussed in the way I
remember discussing it when I was learning it
in terms of it's the one generator of mythological images we have. Because, long art TV is
fantastic but it does not generate those images that
have the heft and the weight and the authority that
the cinema generates. I'm the biggest fan of
The Sopranos or Deadwood, or you name and characters
and arc as close to literature as you can get. But, I cannot quote more than two images. I can define the
composition, exact lensing and position of images
of Kubrick, of Ophuls, of Visconti time and time again. And, I think we need to
discuss film formally because of that. And, it came to that crossroads
and I really, as a man of a certain heft and age, I
said, "Okay, I've done nine "movies that in some way or
another rephrased my childhood. "I wanna do one where I talk like an adult "and about things that are urgent for me. "And, if it doesn't work,
honestly, I'm gonna read more "and take long walks on the beach." - Some of those people have
to do unpleasant things to get a performance. Is that acceptable? - It depends what kind because
there are very clear lines. To push an actor to do work
that they're capable of, yes. To inflict trauma, absolutely
not, absolutely not. And, I've had this argument
with other people before where it's like, I'm
not here to bring trauma into people's life. And so, I feel that's very
ethically, they didn't sign on to be traumatized. So, my job as a director
is to conjure the best out of other people within
what they have already to work with and maybe
new scenarios like cold. Or like, yeah, maybe I am
pushing them in towards cold and things like that. But, I've always thought
that that was not for me. I've heard about those
things about lying to people or really tricking people
or messing with them and I'm like, that's not cool for me. There's a line in the sand
of where I'm willing to go to bring beautiful things into the world because of how beautiful can they be? - Are you willing, however,
to inflict harm upon yourself? - Yes, apparently with great (mumbles). - Yeah.
- A lot. - I would croak, I would. - Would or have? Have you harmed yourself? - I think I have.
- How? - You don't get this big
by not harming yourself. I mean, it is neurosis. You
fray your nerves everyday. They're raw, I mean you
fray, which means that 90% of your personal
life will be unbalanced. And, you're always on the
edge and the more you do it the less you'll get this, but you need to, there are things everyday that
you swear you will die for. - Do you agree, Angelina? - Well, yes that you can take on a lot. I think I'm certainly that person. I never want to, I'll
push myself to the ground, but I'm pretty thoughtful of
other people and their limits. And maybe that's part of leadership, too, is feeling like I better be
able to do it 10 times harder in order to have a right
to ask somebody else. - I used to think that directors,
people who were directors had a certain personality and
that's why they were directors that they had this sort of
relentlessness and they had this and then I realized that
the job makes you that way. It makes you, if you have
that connection and it feels essential and the thing
that you're doing it creates something that you
didn't know that you had or it was dormant somehow
because there's no way to do it if you don't have that. I don't know how you do it. - I think you've got to
have that inclination in the first place. You've got to be a bit mad, you've got to be a bit obsessive.
- You've got to be a bit mad. - Yes, for me, I was thinking
since you talked about your bad experience I was,
for me doing Blade Runner was the other way around. I mean, I do it because I
deeply loved the first movie so much I don't want
somebody else to fuck it up. I wanted to give everything knowing that I would probably be banned
from cinematic community about everybody is gonna hate me
because I dared to do that. But, there was like a strong
call to do it (mumbles) and I agreed before I
was able to do it because I made peace with the idea
that it might be my last film the doing this. And, it made sense to me because
I loved that story so much but that to make the
peace with the idea that I'm going to be hated and just
do it by pure love of cinema. And then, that freedom that
it's like it was so great creatively, but it's like
the reverse engineered. Fearing, not fearing
making peace with what could be the worst. - But, we have a right to fail. - Yes.
- As an artist you have a right to fail
and that's really difficult within this industry when
there's so much money involved. I think it was Beckett
who said that, and it's much easier in playwriting.
- The last like waiting for Goddard.
- Yeah right. - Fail again, fail better. - Yeah, exactly and so
that is always the thing-- - That unbelievable line. - That line is always the
thing that drives me forward. And, there's reason why
one keeps making films 'cause you're always gonna
fail, and it's a practice. And, that's the important
thing is the practice is the process way more
important than the product. And, in that process
the kindness is the most important thing in
talking about the ethical. Everyone's going through
something and as long as you're just kind as much
of the time as possible and the films are made
to generate kindness. I mean, I think all the
films around this table are, to some extent, about
kindness and the aspiration to create more kindness in
the world and that's it. And so, if you're not kind
to the people you work with then you're just a hypocrite
and there's no point in doing it. - Last question, very
quickly, speed round. If you had no limit in budget, in time, in historical moment. - That would be suicide. - But you had a camera. - Limits are what you gives you freedom. - Yeah.
- You cannot be free on freedom.
- Where would you want to put a camera to record something. - In the Socratic Dialogs
he has these dialogs with Diotima who was a
prostitute in Ancient Greece. The only people who could
read and write who were women were court whores because
they had to be good to talk to in addition to everything
else and wives weren't allowed to read or write. I would have loved to have
heard what those women had to say. - When I made Monster I
ended up getting very sucked into the prison world and
so the thing that I was trying to make those
years that I couldn't get my film made was a movie
that took place in prison, in the California Prison System. And, I ended up getting
very sucked into that world and like so just for those
reasons alone I would put a camera inside of the
worst, highest level security yard in prison
and let people watch. Because it's such a, I
would love for the world to understand better
how people are not what you think they are. And, that was thing that
was so incredible about being there was like it's
just not scary enough. You want it to be really
scary, but it's not that scary. It's just human beings stuck, stuck and scared, and sad, and desperate, and lonely and pretending
to be hard because that's the only integrity that they have. And, one out of every thousands
of them are actually crazy. - In the eyes of an angel, which
is I guess Wings of Desire, but I'd continue that experiment. - It would have changed
the fate of the world if you had followed Jesus with a camera. (laughs) - What were those missing years? - There was like the thing that you say, "Okay, that's the truth." - [Patty] That's a good one. - It's really difficult, I've
been honestly really angry about how much has been seen on film from chemical attacks in Syria to
the Rohingya being displaced to people do see things
inside some prisons to people seeing people abuse other people and I see very little movement
and very little change, very little calls to action. And so, I think we're
more aware than ever about what's going on around the
world and bearing witness to it with cameras and yet
people seem more distracted by kind of silly things they can watch. And, if they see it they
can kind of dismiss it. So, I don't know, I mean
if there's something, as you said, that could
change, if there's something that could make people
feel united, maybe it is a camera on the moon. Maybe it is something that
takes us out of ourself and somehow sheds a
bigger light on something that unites us all. - Guillermo.
(sighs) - There are certain
moments of my childhood too personal to share, I
would love to have a look with more accuracy than memory allows. And, I would love to see
the people that I have made into a theater with a more
kind eye, a more objective eye on myself in those moments
in a more objective eye. And, they would be,
perhaps, the key to solving the puzzle that I've been
trying to solve for 43 years. - Don't solve it 'cause the films we get. - That's good, I--
- This is really extraordinary and
you're all lovely, too, which is nice. Thank you so much, that's
the end of the roundtable. - Thank you very much.
- Thank you. - Drinks for everyone.
- You're so nice. (upbeat music) - Ready.
- Okay, quiet on set. - And, I look down the lens. - Yeah.
- Let's do it. (clicks) (laughs) - Hi, I'm Margo Robbie.
- Bryan Cranston. - Robert Pattinson.
- John Boyega. - I'm Sam Rockwell.
- Willem Dafoe. - Emma Stone.
- Allion Janney. - Guillermo del Toro and
thank you for watching. - Thank you.
- Thank you for watching. - Thanks for watching
The Hollywood Reporter. - The Hollywood Reporter.
- The Hollywood Reporter. - On YouTube.
- On YouTube.
Wow, wonder who Denis was talking about when he mentioned the actor that was being a bit of a nuisance.
fuck yeah
also I guess his Michael Mann/George Miller doc is now going to be a book?
Del Toro and Patty Jenkins both have that thing about them where they're just so excited and so deeply in love with their craft that it all comes pouring out of them at once. Them just mutually "YES! YES, I KNOW!" back and forth across the table about their respective favs, then Greta Gerwig joins in shyly but just as passionately is just amazing.
Incredibly personalities, so different, but so equally creative.
Honestly people like that are my absolute favorite to just get coffee with, so I can sit in silence and just listen to them breathlessly gush on their passions.
Absolutely love these...highlight of the Oscar season for me.
Can't wait for the others to come out.
Can't wait to watch Galloway interrupt everyone as soon as the conversation gets interesting. The woman moderator who does a lot of the TV stuff is way better.
Edit: If someone has the name of the moderator I'm talking about, it'd be greatly appreciated. Her name is escaping me.
I've watched Jolie's films, and I hate to say it but I just don't think she's that strong of a director. She picks great material to work with but hasn't created anything special or memorable yet--maybe she's still getting her footing, I'll still give her the benefit of the doubt.
Outstanding, can't wait to watch. I know this is said often, but I miss the female host of this - she's incredible.
I gotta say listening to Denis, Wright, and Del Toro. They just seem like they have such vast knowledge on the technical aspects of film. Also their knowledge and passion for filmmaking looks like it comes from an artistic standpoint.
Man, the editing in these always fucks it up. Terrible