Basically, they started talking in terms of alien language like this, that and I used to think that I am so dumb. I don't know anything. I don't know how to open the computer. I had to take help from the
person next to me to get it formatted. I was so scared that I
used to think that it's not morning yet. I had a lot of personal losses. Personal losses as in not financial losses, personal
losses as in my mom and dad before college. Then when I got offers in college,
my grandma passed away. In fact, that was my
only interview for which I didn't study. I didn't know that CSE was my passion. But I used to get
into something that I have to get into. Placement and internship season is coming. So if you want to learn data structures in Algorithm and you want to be prepared for your internship and placement season, so do check out AlgoPrep.in. Here you will be learning DSA plus OS,DBMS, OOPS and
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but a lot of people requested it. So we have extended it to 14th of December. So you can definitely
check out the link in the description. And yeah, make a wise choice. Learn DSA and crack your dream companies. Now let's start the video. Hi guys, I'm Nishant Chahar. Welcome back to the channel. So today we have two amazing people. Let's take their introduction
once and then we will start the video. So we will start with Bharat. Hi guys, I am Bharat. I am working at Microsoft. I am currently working as a
Principle Software Engineer at Microsoft. Hi, I am Megha. I am working at MongoDB and I am leading developer
at VKC for the Asia Pacific region for MongoDB. Great. So let
me give an introduction of both of them. So Bharat is currently working as a
Principle Software Engineer at Microsoft. He has almost 10 years of experience. Right? And becoming a Principle Software
Engineer in 10 years is quite amazing. He looks so young. So Principle Software Engineer in general doesn't look young. So we have Megha. She is leading Developer
Advocacy at MongoDB in the APAC region. And she has worked at Microsoft and Apple
and multiple other companies as well. So we are doing a podcast with them. You will get different opinions because he's been
with Microsoft from the start of his career. He has worked
at Redmond also and came back to India. She has switched jobs in almost two years. So let's see the
parallel perspectives of both of them. First,
can you tell us how you joined Microsoft? How did you start coding? So I would like to go further. I started college in 2010. Before that,
I didn't even know the name of IIT. So I entered college somehow. Someone told me which branch I should take. I didn't know anything about the branch. So someone told me to take CSE. We took CSE but we didn't have a computer. We didn't
have a computer for the first time. There were people
in my college who were quite smart. They had heard about CSE at least. Basically, they started
talking in terms of alien language. I thought I was so dumb. I didn't know anything. I didn't know how to open a computer. I had to take help from the
person next to me to get it formatted. So I started college. CSE has the first C course in programming. People had told me that
they didn't teach in detail in college. They expect you to. We were
never like this in the previous setup. We were in the coaching period. So I was scared. I was scared
of the C course in a very dangerous way. I was scared that as soon as this semester ends,
I will change the branch. So I went to C.G.P 8.9. I was in CSE. There was an option to change the branch. People wanted to come to CSE. So I took the form one night. I said that I will change the branch today. I filled the form. I had a roommate. He didn't know anything. We were of the same type. He thought that if he left,
I would also get stuck. So he told me that I will do whatever I want. You are not changing the branch. And he literally tore my form. And we took a pledge. Our goal is to get a job in Infosys. Because it was a new college. I had to study IT. So many companies didn't come. Microsoft, Amazon used to come but Google didn't come. So we made a pledge. We just have to take Infosys. Nothing else. And somehow we have to pass. So we passed the lab. It took 3 years. Not 3 years, 2.5 years. I heard that Microsoft is coming. For internship. Rajeev was the director of Microsoft. So he made a round table. He made 15 people sit there. At that time, everyone had a seat for Geeks. So he wrote 2 questions on the board. He said that this is it. So we all had a seat. So we told the answer. So he didn't say randomly. He might have seen something. But I thought that it was random. So he took 5 kids. So he announced 1, 2, 3, 4. My friend came in 4th. I didn't come. And I heard that Microsoft is coming. For 4 kids. So I was shocked. They said that we had to take 4 kids. But we are taking 5. So I was in 5th. So that's how it started. Before this, I was like, This is not a dream. We will go to some service based company. We will do something. We reached Microsoft. At that time, Android started. In 2013, Microsoft used to be on Windows. So the work was starting for Android. So people didn't know what to do. People didn't know. And I joined such a team. And in that, my mentor It was during your internship. He was on leave. I was so scared. I used to think that It's not morning. If it's morning, We have to do the same. And watch the same. And we won't be able to do it. I used to be happy on Friday night. That we won't be able to watch for 2 days. So we did like this. And the name of the team was SSE Graphics. Basically OpenGL. I had passed that course with difficulty. I had passed with double C. So I thought that it was a bad team. New work. Mentor. And the most useless subject. I didn't know anything. So I took out 2 months. With some help. The best thing was that I wasn't scared. That I will ask someone to help me. What to do? There was no option. So I got an internship in Microsoft . I also got PPO. I had to work hard. So basically This is my first start. When I joined. Now I know that I have to learn. I have come in some way. I have done something. So this is my starting. It's an amazing journey. It was the same with me. I didn't know about JEE. What happened once. Narayana and Shree Chetan. They were centers in Dwarka. So they came for the scholarship test. And they were writing the same thing. 2013-14. Google has taken out a package of 1 crore. And there I came to know That IIT is something. JEE is something. I was in 9th or 10th. So I gave the scholarship test. Then I started coaching. Then I came
to know that there are more colleges. DTU, NSIT. IIT will not get competition. There is a lot of competition. And then I got the college. I got a good branch. But generally there is no awareness. Because parents don't have it. My father works in the government sector. So they don't have any idea. What engineering is done. What is done in private. They were like that I get a government job. And life is good. What was your start? So I had an idea in my house. And I made an email ID from 4th class. So my father was an engineer. And he had a business. So I had a lot of exposure. I knew about IIT from a long time. I knew how to run a computer. But I couldn't go to IIT. I was going to some good colleges. But at that time I had lost my parents. So at that time I had to go to my house. Surat was just near my house. So I took that in counseling. I took IP university. I didn't even take IIT. I just wanted to see my grandmother at home. So that was my start. And then since childhood. Because my uncle is settled abroad. He is settled in US. So our perspective is that Give all round development to the child. Although I am not in sports. But it was that Comparing. So there I do it from school. And then When I was in college I was also a class rep. And I had only 4 girls in my class. Rest I don't know how I went to the other section. I am from EC. So I was a class rep. I have focused on soft skills. I have focused on calm skills. And then I am also a kind of Punjabi. So I got angry. But I worked on it. I also worked on coding. I also worked on coding. I did certifications. So I had 5 offers. 2 on campus. Actually 3 on campus. 2 off campus. So I started from Samsung. Samsung Noida or Bangalore? Samsung Bangalore. So I also went out for the first time. First I was always at home. Pampered gate. So I did an intern. In SRIB. So what happens is it came to our college. I had given 2-3 companies. I had given RCCM and GS. I went till the last round. In the end I wanted the list of 5 people. 6th was mine. I refused. RCCM director of engineering gave me his card that if you want to come later you can but right now I can take 3 of them. But I did something in Samsung. But Samsung's culture is different. Samsung's culture is different. There is a Korean culture there. So they need a little hardworking. And as you start going in the evening at 6 o'clock, you will get mails. So you have to cater to that as well. So that culture is set there. You can't go against it. During Covid, we didn't have any PPO. We were told that you won't get an offer. Start studying for your on campus. Mine was during Covid. It was different. Everything was working from home. Work from home in Samsung is not allowed. It is totally trusty. My friends in Samsung used to say that Samsung has no work. It is less in Bangalore as well. There are bug fixing announcements. I was in D.P.G. The rest is slow. But you have to be there. You have to stay in the office. Because you can't work remotely. In Korea, it is a different type of learning because their culture is different Although it is an Asian country. For the first time, I got to know that people follow rules on the roads. At the age of 21, I got to know
that people can eat non-veg on Tuesdays. Then I got to know that there is something called no religion. At the age of 21, I got to know that 95% of the people in the country don't have any religion. What kind of a country is this? Why are there so many people in our country? You can
even walk on the road at 2 in the night. I had a friend from Bihar and he had been there many times. He asked me to come alone at night because he didn't need to wait for me or come with me. So, I trusted him at 2 in the night. Then, one guy was smoking and he put his cigarette down and hid it. Their culture is to respect women. I wished
this would happen in our country too. But yes, I got exposure from him. After Samsung, I took a small article for 5-6 months for health. Because I had a lot of personal losses. Personal losses as in financial losses, personal losses as in my parents before college. Then, when I got offers in college, my grandmother passed away. Then, my
grandfather moved to US and I was alone. So, I got sick and got a little backache. Then, I focused on my treatment and health for 5-6 months. Then, I restarted my career. So, the people who were joining Samsung with me IITNs, NITNs and only 5-6 students from my college I had to restart. Then, I went to Symphony Teleca. Now, Symphony Teleka is in Harman and Harman is in Samsung. In Symphony Teleka, I took a role in maintenance. Then, I started Geeks for Geeks. I want to study. This is my time. I will become like them. I used to do that work quickly. Then, I learned. Then, I started studying. I was preparing for Amazon but then, I went to Make My Trip. I didn't go to Amazon. Then, I did Make My Trip. Since then, I didn't do DSA from college. I did it later. I got an awareness there. I took a gap of 5-6 months and my other friends from IIT and NIT started telling me. Then, when I started giving interviews in the gap of 5-6 months, they also started asking me. Then, I found out that I want to study and I want to study from here. Now, it has helped a lot from his channel. Everyone got to know what to study. We went for interviews and got to know about the failures. In 2018-2019, I didn't know what to study. My brother said that this is Geeks for Geeks and this is your mess. In college, there were YouTube and online resources. So, the seniors who were in 2nd or 3rd year, their internship told me that I should study from GFG and do an interview. Leet code came very recently, in 2020-2021. Before that, I used to practice from here. This is Geeks for Geeks. I downloaded it and I still have it. I have the first version. I started it in 2014. Before that, I couldn't do it. Now, I will put all the answers. I did all the questions 10-15 times. Now, you can ask. When I had an interview with PPO, he asked me a question. He had a lot of names here. He asked me a question. I did it. He asked me 2-3 times. I told him that I will tell you now. I said that I have done that question 10 times. So, you have to do this in the interview. No, I didn't. We can do that very well. Both of your journeys were different. After Make My Trip, you joined Microsoft. After Make My Trip, I said that I want to do MBA. I think I have some convincing skills or I have some different skills from just the tech. I can do it in tech. I like it but I might love something else. I understood that. Then I
thought that I will do MBA in consulting. What kind of consulting? Strategic consulting. I understood that after 2013-14. Then I studied a little and I thought that I studied in some colleges like Oxford and CUHK. There I understood that we have to work in a consulting firm where you have to show exposure because you don't have PPO in other colleges. Then I thought what should I do? Then I went to SEPINT. I thought that I will do MBA there. No, I didn't do MBA. I saw MBA to apply for Switch. There were other reasons too. In fact, that was my only interview for which I didn't study. For SEP? For Publicis SEPINT. It was not Publicis. It was SEPINT. That's why I said that I didn't study. I worked so much. They taught me so much. Actually, at that time I didn't have Spring Boot. I could have made projects with Spring, Struts, Hibernate. I didn't know it before. I learned a lot. I am thankful. I got the confidence that Google search engine I will make everything. Then after going to SEPINT I worked there for 2.5 years. In 2.5 years I learned how to make a product and how to convince them to use it because I was working with an investment banking customer. They don't want to move from one product to another. They say that we will do it manually but we won't learn. They convinced me there that I couldn't make a team but sometimes senior people did. I started liking it. But then Microsoft happened. One day I got a call and I thought whether I should go or not. I used to read Cracking the Coding interview. I didn't do much hard work. I used to understand concepts. I went to Microsoft and you won't believe that there was a very important message that there
were names of many people in that list. But half of the kids didn't come because the guards were ticking on the name. Half of the people won the battle that you should just go there. Go there. After that I actually cracked that interview. I think 5 rounds were done. DSA and design and problem solving kind of situational What year was it? I think I joined in 2017. I am telling you about 2017. After that I joined Microsoft in 2017. As soon as I came, the culture shifted. What is this? There is no hierarchy here. No one will tell you that you have to own your journey. Then I learned and went through different tech stacks and learned. After 2-3 years,
my sluggish journey started. Then the last 2 years went very well. It was almost 4 years . Then I got promoted. Then I
understood that I have to own my journey. I have to take more ownership if I want to go in the leading role. After that I got involved in design discussions in the entire org. Our org was also a good touchwood who used to involve us in design discussions. Then I started teaching, mentorship in an academy I got involved with them and I got to learn a lot from them. Then I gained more confidence and from there I thought that I have to become an SD4. Then I went to Apple. I had many failures before that but after every failure I used to understand that I used to clear it and they
used to tell me that I can join as an SD2 but not SD4 because I was not able to tell them my impact and failures in numbers properly. I took more ownership and worked on side projects. Then I went to Apple. I worked in Apple for 1.5 years and then I worked in MongoDB. Job description was very different. Then I got a call from a developer and I understood what he was saying and he told me that I have to travel teach and do some tech and the rest of
my team will be in different countries. I thought that this is a good thing and I love travelling I have travelled 10-11 countries by myself and a couple of works. I thought that I will definitely see this and I didn't prepare for that as well. Thank you. You have understood smart terms. No, I prepared for one round presentation challenge where we have to make an app and present it. Otherwise I didn't prepare DSA was simpler because it was for advocacy and obviously as you were telling we were talking earlier people from outside go to your work and your experience and your way of talking and they don't go much technically in interviews those are the things. I did 7 rounds there. It was a long journey but it was great. It was interesting. You both are in different roles but you have been mentoring a lot of people you are mentoring inside the company you are mentoring outside the company so what is the one thing that you see that these people get stuck there. The common problem that you are figuring out and I think whoever is watching will also hit the same thing. What is that? It's been 9-10 years and a lot of people have worked with me. The biggest problem that comes for newcomers today is the focus not shift, they just want to do some way. The biggest problem is when a newcomer gets some work he doesn't want to understand why he wants to do it or what he wants to do he just wants to tell me so that he can do his work. Now the problem is your mentor will tell you such developers get stuck at 61 or higher level that's when you see a lot of developers that I am not getting promoted for the past 3 years. The reason is that they are spoon feeded. So I think that from 59 or starting you should be coding for 2-3 years because coding will always be with you you will definitely do leadership but you need to be technically strong in this job. So those people miss that opportunity I see that where it can happen suppose there is a small example I work a lot in C++ C++ is a language which is a bit complex but it is a very good language and performance all the performance intensive work is done in C++ Now what the new kids do they will not focus on that even today there are very few people who really know C++ and you
will see they are working for 4-5 years so they left the starting time when they could do the skill they don't fight So the biggest problem I feel that in the starting you should fight for 1-2 years and fight doesn't mean that you learn 10 stacks they say this is a month stack this is a stack, that is a stack but you can learn that anytime it is not a major skill is that you are able to learn such systems independently you are able to work, you are able to code because when we used to code in college we used to think
that we should do some kind of output but now your code is used by millions of users so in 2-5 minutes you get to know that there are 1-1.5 lakh crashes so that is a very important journey which I see very few people who try and this is like you were saying that I became in 9 years actually I became in 8.5 years so the main thing that I had with me I was never technically good and it was not like this CSE is my passion I have to do this but with me, I used to get into anything, that I have to get into testing was there,
automation was also very less manual testing was there so what I used to do, I used to see the developers while talking sometimes
I used to feel that what are they doing I also try and see so I was like no,
I don't want to stay in SDET I have to do it so it happened that once
or twice our scrum meeting was going on so there was scrum with test and dev so there was some critical section which we do in our OS like blocking so he was like doing it for 1-2 weeks so it was not happening, it was tough nobody knew what was the idea so I said that you have tried so you have to do more work so he said I am going to park it so I said are you going to park it,
can I take it he said you can take it so I was trying I was trying so in a week I tried something and it was fixed so this thing, I understood if we keep doing it it will happen so by doing this I started taking challenges slowly nobody used to tell me I used to take it myself so nobody would say no I mean I don't want I don't want to do that without telling because otherwise people will give wrong but I used to say sir you have so much work you are doing so many things where do you have this small work give it to me, I will do it with a little butter so I used to get it so by getting 10, 4 issues were fixed so it was done so he saw that he can do the dev work so I started for dev so I thought you should become a dev now I see less in those people like people work in my end so I have to tell them now you go and do this did you do that, now did you see this it should be that someone should come to me and tell me that I am getting stuck at this you will help me or give me more work, I have time so you can say anything say distraction or people don't want to do it say genz yes understood my perspective is don't make a means to an end and if you are in this then deep dive means to an end means we have to earn money or do any job why is it very clear that do I really like this and if I like it then to what degree how long will I stay in this or some combination of this like in my mind it was always in fact people used to call me crazy when I used
to say that I will do something like this in which I will do tech, travel and something like this will happen I used to
think later that I will become a trainer some people used to support me but some people said that it doesn't happen actually that role was made so that is
what I am saying that you find your why that what you have to do and you enjoy it you enjoy that you don't feel hard work no matter how many hours you spend if your
why is clear and you are sitting there then you will do good you don't want any carrot stick approach you will deep dive yourself how you should learn and if your reports come when you are hiring if they also come like this then they will also come like my touchwood both of them come and ask me what should we do and how should we learn and what other topics should we learn that why is clear and mind set like if you get stuck like he never gave up I lost so much in my life he never gave up I am sure he made so many videos I think he is a trendsetter I never thought that Microsoft will not shoot videos for 4 years never thought to show anything so that is where you never get stuck you have to think that when everyone can do then I can also do and let me
tell you that we are one of the smartest racists, factually proven so we are one of the most hardworking people, especially Asians so we should use it better and when you have Google then what are you talking about I think people don't know how to search the biggest problem is that people don't know how to use Google they don't know how to write prompts if these two things work on this skill, software engineering then 50-60% what are you searching you are getting the answer stackoverflow, chartgpt you will get a hint someone must have faced that problem so you can do it so they don't learn they don't learn, they don't do it they just go and ask I have seen it They need copy and paste I have seen that people want if I send them my code snippet they
don't even want to hold it to their code they want it to be exactly copy paste exactly same copy paste it's a big problem I have seen it in file reading I was saying go and see what it is doing otherwise if it works then what will you get what did you learn I think that's the problem people don't know how to search and after searching you get it and you don't know how to modify it because there is no understanding if there is no deep down understanding then you don't change maybe you don't have curiosity even if you get the code you don't forget about it you must be curious why is this happening this is very important if you don't have curiosity then you can't do anything next important part we have discussed staying in the same company for 10 years versus switching after every 2 years which one is more beneficial because at the end of the day everyone works for money and if you want to generate wealth or if you want to earn money which path is a better path you can tell us your opinions my opinion is everyone has a different journey so everyone will work for different things you can work for someone and I think at the end of the day after one figure you don't work for money you work for respect, satisfaction and fulfillment what do you think? I think in the beginning money matters a lot especially for beginners like I went to Redmond one reason was to earn more earn more and save more now you have a path I could have tried in some other company I tried in Tower I was getting good money I also had to go to Redmond so in the beginning I will say I didn't go because I thought I am getting good work and I am going to Redmond I am working with good people so I don't need it now if I feel like either I am not getting promoted or I am getting less money then I should choose because in the beginning you can't convince anyone if Microsoft is giving 20 lakhs and someone is giving 60 lakhs why won't someone go right? there is a big difference in fact a guy who used to work with me his name was Abhishek he was brilliant I didn't see such a good guy either people are technically correct or they are good in management skills both are not together this guy was so good technically correct after
that you don't have to ask him anything there will be proper documentation what analysis he did what research he did with proper write up you can't miss any point he worked with me for 1.5 he got an offer from Amazon
years Amazon is giving him 3 times so why should I ask him to stop definitely why should I ask him how much Microsoft will do so if there is a big difference then you can do it in the beginning when you reach a good level suppose you are a senior then you start to see the respect what kind of respect I am getting what kind of people are in my opinion because a person's habit is you want to be at your comfort so just like I gave Uber I had 2 rounds so in that I thought I will start from scratch in Microsoft there are design reviews so it doesn't go without my opinion if anything comes in C++ then first person will give it to Bharat Bharat will see if there is a small change then people consider it my opinion so that thing also matters money is there at a certain level and Microsoft gives you special stocks to retain the more your respect increases the more the company will try to retain you so they don't let you go so in the beginning I would definitely say if you are getting more money then go you are talking about one level but what is that level that differs from person to person there is a figure between 50 to 60 lakhs this is per year yes per year after that when you earn then you look at other things for me I think you can sort of switch and after that one thing is I have seen people in Redmond who have been working
in the same domain for 20-30 years they
seem to have a lot of technical expertise so if you things up to 62-63 you can see which area you like cloud, graphics do it, come and see till then you will know after
that you can sort of contribute to that where you are doing a lot of research on AI so then why would you want to go so I would say on senior it is a good position to sort of settle down where settled down doesn't mean that you don't have to do anything but then basically
you can focus on a particular area and say okay this is my domain I am going to focus on that area I think what you are saying same thing in different words when you get fitment you get respect your opinion matters until and unless you have a better opportunity and then you have an issue till then you can in big companies like Microsoft for example if you are a principal or a senior it is possible
that you get more senior in Amazon but then you
can move to Redmond or other countries where you will get more dollars and you will still have the opportunity to work in the same area and this is like Microsoft like in big tech you
have more opportunities to switch domains like Microsoft is working in every domain if you don't like one then you can try multiple and in some you can always try something people generally switch companies because they don't understand the domain if someone is in an XYZ company and he doesn't like the work then he won't do it either change the team or change the company in some companies team change is very difficult so people are like change the team or change the company because they will get 50% instead of 10% for example Adobe you have to give interviews for internal transfer you have to give interviews in Microsoft but it is not that much and you
don't have to give interviews in Amazon or Google you can talk to the manager so that is a factor so big tech has a big benefit if your company is working in 10 places then you can always switch and the benefit is like Microsoft is going to work in AI so you can work on cutting edge rather than changing company so that is a big factor so your opinions are not similar it's just that you should get the right fit because your puzzle should be solved so it's fine doesn't
matter if you are in the same company if you are in the same company if you are in the same company then they will want to retain you so they will match if the base doesn't
match then they will give you more stocks or bonus they will do something and stop you they will want to retain you for sure last advice for people who are joining starting their career concise I would say don't be afraid if you are getting anything then go inside rather than if you are writing a line of code then you should know why I wrote it, what is the impact and how to make it better this is the advice and keep in mind that you deserve and focus on your health and all around growth not that you spend all your time on work different days will go different it's not like that but some days you will have more work some days you will have more focus on health but you have to manage everything together balance out and health is very important if it gets bad then no matter how much money you earn no matter how much you do good when new people come sometimes some people are excited that they will work on weekends at least they ask so I tell them no weekends you have to do this all your life work life balance is very important you can burn one day, two days but you cannot make it means if there is a big production issue then obviously
you will have to work for a weekend but it's not like you are sitting
every weekend to impress your manager so that's a little so thank you Bharat thank you Megha it was a very interesting conversation very motivational plus informative so thank you so much for watching this video you can follow them on LinkedIn, LinkedIn I'd of both of them and Megha's YouTube
channel will be also in the description and yeah see you in the next video Bye
