Frankly Speaking with Rahul Gandhi - Part 2 | Arnab Goswami Exclusive Interview

for it in that case why don't you apologize on the 1984 RS so the congressmen who you are talking about are still fighting their cases and in 2009 if I'm not mistaken Jagdish titler Mr Rahul Gandhi was going to get nominated as a congress candidate it was only following the media media furor that his nomination was taken back Mr Gandhi I'm asking you this question with with all seriousness do you feel that congressmen were involved and two do you believe that you personally if you apologize for the rights they will fact the fact of the matter is that innocent people died in 1984 and innocent people dying is a horrible thing and should not happen Okay the difference between Gujarat and 1984 was that the government of Gujarat was involved in the riots the government how do you how do you say that I mean the chief minister of Gujarat has been given the clean by the courts the government of the difference between the 84 riats and the riots in Gujarat was that in 1984 the government was trying to stop the riots I remember I was I was a child then I remember that the government was doing everything it could to stop the riots in Gujarat the opposite was the case the government in Gujarat was actually abetting and pushing the riots further so there's a there's a huge difference between the two things say that innocent people dying is absolutely wrong explain that government of government of Gujarat was aiding an AB betting the rights is what you just said explain that I mean it's not me it's it's large numbers of people who were there it's large numbers of people who saw actively the government of Gujarat uh being involved you keep that line despite the chief minister getting a clean from the courts I mean people saw it I'm not the person who saw it your colleagues saw it your colleagues told me they saw saw riots they didn't see the government of guat they saw the administration they saw the administration actively attacking minorities are you saying the government of Gujarat was what what are you what is what I'm saying is that there was a difference between the 1984 riots and the riots in Gujarat the difference was that the government in 1984 was trying to stop the riots was trying to stop the killing whereas the the government in Gujarat was allowing the r and if you how was if the government in in in in in Delhi and in the center was trying to stop the riots in 1984 then tell me how is it possible that sajan Kumar was named in FS on grounds of inciting violence in outer Delhi leading to the murder of siks the status of the case is known how is Jagdish titler accused of inciting the mob at P bangash leading to murder and rioting in the area how is the late hkl bhat accused of inciting violence and you know that appeal in the Delhi high court was closed after his death how did these Congress leaders do what they did allegedly if the Govern government was so strongly and proactively AC there's a process there's a there's a legal process and that process is on there was an sit finding it was challenged by Zakia jafre it went up there and the courts upheld what the sit found are you questioning the wisdom of the courts Mr what I'm saying all I'm saying is that there is a difference between the 1984 riots and the Gujarat riots the simple difference is that in 1984 the government was not involved in the massacre of people in Gujarat it was the question is why do these type of things take place why is it that the Gujarat riots take place the Gujarat riots take place frankly because of the way our system is structured because of the fact that people do not have a voice in the system and what I want to do and I've said it and I will say it again what I want to do is question the fundamentals over here what I want to do is ask a couple of questions I want to ask why uh candidates that are chos chosen in every single party are chosen by tiny number of people MH I want to ask why women have to be uh scared to go out in the street I want to ask these questions these are fundamental questions I I appreciate that you believe in transparency I'll move away from Gujarat though I must say that I have not found this comparison between 84 and Gujarat rights that they are two different cases uh I mean I can't take this at face value Mr Gandhi and the reason for this is because in both cases is the government the accusation is that the government could have done a little bit more but at the same time I want you to once more if you can substantiate you stand by what you said that you believe the chief minister and the government of Gujarat played a role in abetting the RS you you stand what I'm saying is there is a difference between the 1984 RS and the Gujarat RS the difference is that the government of the day in 1984 was not aiding and abetting the rights that's all I'm saying apologize for the 84 RS if someone seeks an apology from you will you give it your prime minister has apologized for the RS Express deep regret will you do the same the first first of all I wasn't involved in the riots at all I mean it wasn't that I was part of it on behalf of your party I think I think the riots were uh were not as all riots were a horrible event now frankly I was not uh in operation in the congress party Mr Gandhi uh let's move on to the RTI which is the single biggest legislation to combat corruption which you said in your speech uh at the AIC uh that was uh something that you were speaking about now I would I find it uh ironical that a party which has 99.38% of its funds from cash between 2008 in 2012 89.1% of its money in this period comes from unac counted sources unnamed sources why would you not say charity begins at home and let's put the congress party and its funds under the scanner of the RTI well I mean why would you not bring the same freshness of perspective in this case as you brought when you dealt with the issue of the ordinance I think political parties should be uh under RTI if political parties feel and it's a law that has to be passed in Parliament if political parties unanimously feel that that is the case it should be the what will be your view on it my position my position is uh that the more openness the better your own view personal view is that political parties should be under the RT the issue is this laws in this country are passed by parliament what one needs to do is pass a law in Parliament that brings RTI into the political party my I have a personal view on it but you have to take that view through Parliament I have a view also for example on the six bills that are sitting in Parliament I'll come to that but my question is on the RTI I want your view on it Mr rul Gandhi you are a very influential politician you you can you have you have demonstrated some of your actions in the past that what you say and do can influence decisions in government and in Parliament so my question to you is very significant you said that on in the AIC you said we enacted this revolutionary law to hand you power knowing fully well that it would place our own government under severe scrutiny I agree with you what about placing your own party under scrutiny so are you open to that I am I am I the first person who has been saying over the last uh 5 years talking about transparency in the party I have made the youth congress and the nsui fully elected Bodies Okay uh I have spoken about the six bills in Parliament I have spoken about uh the local bill and I have pushed the local Bill I'm I was involved in the RTI we worked together to bring the RTI so as far as transparency in the political par is concerned I am absolutely for transparency there is a question there is a question about there are questions about the RTI that need to be discussed and thought through the real question is that our our system is based on different pillars and the question is which ones of these pillars should have RTI because if you if you only put RTI into one pillow and you don't have rti in for example the Judiciary and the press and in other areas then you might create an imbalance am I for opening up am I for bringing RTI into as many places as possible absolutely am I for creating an imbalance and weakening the legislative structures of this country no I'm not how does placing Pol politicians how does putting polit political parties under the purview of the right to Information Act how does that actually weaken the legislative process it brings in transparency no it brings in transparency but it changes the balance of power how because you you the Judiciary does not have RTI the Press does not have RTI other components of the system do not have RTI the Press does not rule the country no it doesn't but the press okay the Judiciary does not have RTI so there are so you have to you have to have a a you have to have a complete thinking so if you if you want to bring RTI you want to deepen RTI you have to think about it in a composite manner you cannot just say okay let's you know put RTI here put RTI you have to have a strategy to put RTI and open the system together and as far as opening the system is concerned you're willing to let a discussion happen on bringing political parties of course I am you're not opposed to that no I'm not opposed to any discussion never but this specific on all subjects but one has to one has to take care that one is not creating imbalances in the in the system and that's something that uh one has to discuss but as far as disc do I sense that you were almost committing yourself and then pulled back no no no I've said that I'm happy to have a discussion you're happy to have a discussion on bringing political parties under absolutely okay M Mr Gandhi um but let me let me let me just go back and let me give you um let me give you a little let me go further than that okay the main issue if you look at the the real serious the central question in all this the central question in all this is who chooses political candidates and how right the central issue in all this is what is the power of the Member of Parliament the power of the MLA and the power of the pradan in the political system if you look at the legislative power of a member of parliament you look at the legislative power of an MLA today and you look at the role that he plays in Parliament and the role that he plays in the assembly he doesn't actually make laws he presses buttons okay if you look at go to a state like utar Pradesh and you look at actually the lawmaking uh the the lawmaking done by the mlas extremely limited you can't talk about bringing people into politics you can't talk about opening up the system until you start to empower these people understood was it part of the empowerment was it part of the empowerment of people that Ashok chaan was protected in the others Camp despite the fact that the judicial commission actually said that he was uh involved in a quid proo a chief minister an ex-chief Minister forced to go because of one of the most uh one of the biggest scamps which was by the way Mr Rahul Gandhi played out greatly on times now is being protected the CBI is not getting permission to prosecute him why now what is you you can you can say all this Mr Mr Rahul Gandhi about the legislative framework to fight corruption but my question to you is more fundamental you have not shown the political will to use your tremendous influence to ensure that Ashok chawan faces Justice you said a little bit and you moved back what why are you still protecting as I'm sorry the congress party wherever where ever we have had issues of corruption we have taken action on every front we are the ones who brought the RTI which is the single biggest single biggest weapon against corruption and we got it ourselves we are the ones who delivered RTI to this country it is no I'm not your cabinet your cabinet rejected your Maharashtra cabinet your in rejected the judicial commission report on aders right you made and after that the governor refused to give prosecution to go against Ashok chaan one minute sir none of this was part of the empower of the people you said you're not for it after that in some kind of tardy if I may say so partial acceptance of the report the bureaucrats are blamed and each and every politician including Mr Ashok chaan gets away I want to ask you Mr Rahul Gandhi you said you will not compromise you will not make small compromises how big a compromise was it for you to continue to protect as Chan why are you protecting as chaan I made my position on Mr Ash Kumar Ashok Chan absolutely clear I made it in front of a press conference I made it absolutely clear exactly what I thought about that issue let me go back again to the issue at hand the issue at hand and the issue at hand is bringing in youngsters into the political system opening no no opening the doors the chief minister the chief minister sort of did a partial acceptance which basically means bureaucrats are faulted in the report they are penalized indicted politicians get away Mr Rahul Gandhi I'm asking you this because you know you come come up on the issue do you have the political conviction to push this through what will you say to the people watching the interview today who will say you know what you said it but you're not taking responsibility the man still gets a his scree why should a bureaucrat be punished and a congress politician be let let what I will say is that in the congress party anybody who does any Act of corruption will be taken up and punished what about Ash chaan every single person okay what I would say what I would say is that there are six bills in Parliament that that are sitting there bring them in pass them what I say but your words are not matching your actions Mr Rahul Gandhi you you are saying it but yet the politicians they all got away scot-free including not just Ashok chaan there are several other NCP ministers all of whom tried to interfere and meddle in the process they use the name of Carill Mr Rahul Gandhi to give themselves private profit if you say this and you have the conviction why are you not following it through I have made it absolutely crystal clear right right in front of the press what I think about this is but nothing happened what you as chan chan faces not what all I'm saying is that anybody regardless of who he is if there is any corruption done by any Congress person we will take action we have we have punished our own ministers we have put the most powerful bills in the Parliament House please get those bills passed that's what I tell the opposition I'm giving you two examples one ex-chief minister want a present chief minister V badra Singh my question to you is we have papers which have shown that a chief minister takes money from a company uh which his government does business with and he takes money large amounts of money are put in and then he says you know I just took the money as a personal loan because I wanted to do Renovations in my Palace my question is my question is uh Mr Rahul Gandhi and this is really fundamental because you have taken a position of Corruption of late do you think it is appropriate for another chief minister of a state to be deciding on a fate of a company that he is revealed to have closed links with and by not speaking on it because you've not spoken on it aren't you missing on yet another opportunity to address the issue of corruption V badra Singh as far as any corruption done there is a legal process and that legal process should be followed and concluded as far as my personal view is concerned anybody who is corrupt should be brought to book was the legal process completed when aaja was asked to leave the cab we took we took we took actions on the DMK Minister but was the legal process completed when Mr kalmadi was asked to leave a secretary of the Congress parliamentary committee we took action we took action we took action on the corrupt ministers we have passed a bill in Parliament the loal bill the most powerful thing we have got you RTI and we've got six bills sitting in Parliament House you want to we have to change the way the system works we are always talking about peripheral Things We are Never talking about the core reason the system is corrupt the core reason the system is corrupt is because there is too much concentration of power in the system and people on the peripheries do not have power the people on the streets do not have power and the reason that happens is because our political system our political parties are shut we need to open the door of the political parties we need to move carry out more legislation like RTI and we need to change the system are you open to taking action on Ashok chaan and V badra Singh have you seen the papers yourself will you examine it Mr Gandhi look will you examine it anybody who is corrupt should be punished I am not uh a judge so if there is a legal process and there is a uh result of the legal process absolutely they should be punished I'm not I'm not a a person who there's no case being followed up on vad there's no case being followed up I know that but I'm saying that it is not my job is where I see issues of corruption arising action but M Mr Gandhi now you see

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Id: 1LnNT1tqMFM

Length: 17min 32sec (1052 seconds)

Published: Mon Jan 27 2014