OF FOOTNOTES+. >> WASHINGTON JOURNAL CONTINUES. HOST: WELCOME BACK. WE ARE JOINED NOW BY FRANKLINS, POLLSTER AND COMMUNICATIONS -- FRANK LUNTZ, PULSE RATE INDICATIONS STRATEGIST TO DISCUSS CAMPAIGN 2024 AND IF YOU ARE WATCHING LAST WEEK, THERE WITH THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE OF THE 2024 CAMPAIGN. FRANK, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM. WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT DEBATE. ON THURSDAY WHILE THAT WAS HAPPENING, YOU HAD A FOCUS GROUP. TELL US WHO PARTICIPATED IN HOW THEY WERE SELECTED. >> IT WAS ACTUALLY A VERY TYPICAL EFFORT BECAUSE TRYING TO FIND TRULY UNDECIDED VOTERS IS JUST ABOUT IMPOSSIBLE. AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS SOMEBODY WILL SAY I DON'T KNOW WHO I'M VOTING FOR BUT WHEN YOU ASK THEM, I WOULD NEVER VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP, BUT I'M STILL NOT SURE ABOUT JOE BIDEN OR VICE VERSA. AND THAT IS NOT AN UNDECIDED VOTE BECAUSE THEY ALREADY WRITTEN OFF ONE OF THE CANDIDATES. SO WE'VE BEEN FINDING PEOPLE WHO TRULY WOULD BE WILLING TO VOTE FOR EITHER TRUMP OR BIDEN AND IN SOME CASES, THEIR PREFERENCE WAS BOBBY KENNEDY JR. AND THEY HAD TO BE WILLING TO GO BACK AND FORTH. SECOND, THEY HAD TO BE GENUINE SWING VOTERS WHICH MEANS THEY HAD TO VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS. THIRD IS WHAT WE SAW IN MOST OF OUR PEOPLE WHO EITHER VOTED FOR HILLARY CLINTON AND DONALD TRUMP FOR DONALD TRUMP AND JOE BIDEN. THEY HAD ACTUALLY VOTED OPPOSITE IN 2016 AND 2020 AND LASTLY THEY WERE ONLY FROM THE KEY SWING STATES. PENNSYLVANIA, MICHIGAN, WISCONSIN, NORTH CAROLINA, GEORGIA, NEVADA OR ARIZONA. WE INCLUDED MINNESOTA BECAUSE THAT STATE HAS NARROWED SO MUCH IN THE LAST MONTH FOR SIX WEEKS. SO THESE ARE GENUINE SWING VOTERS FROM GENUINE SWING VOTER STATES, AND IT WAS A FASCINATING EXPERIENCE. BY THE WAY, I APOLOGIZE FOR GOING ON, BUT THE METHODOLOGY IS SO IMPORTANT. WE STARTED FOR ABOUT 30 MINUTES ASKING THEM WHY THE HECK CAN YOU STILL BE A SWING VOTER BETWEEN TRUMP AND BIDEN? THEY ARE SO DIFFERENT IN DEMEANOR AND POLICY, IN ATTITUDE, IN RECORD. IN THE ANSWER IS THAT THEY TRULY DON'T LIKE EITHER OF THE CANDIDATES. THAT THESE ARE DOUBLE NEGATIVES. THEY REALLY DON'T BELIEVE THAT EITHER CANDIDATE IS PREFERABLE AND THEY ARE TRYING TO CHOOSE THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS. THERE WAS A FASCINATING EXPERIENCE. HOST: SO ONCE YOU FOUND THOSE PEOPLE IN A HAYSTACK, EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENS DURING A FOCUS GROUP LIKE THAT. WHAT IS HAPPENING THROUGHOUT THE EVENING? GUEST: SO THE PERSON NEEDS TO GET EVERYBODY SUITED UP, WHICH MEANS THEY HAVE TO LOOK GOOD IN THEIR BOXES. THE MOST PART WE STOPPED WE LIVE FOCUS GROUPS TO THAT IS JUST ONE CITY OR ONE COMMUNITY, AND I WANT TO SHOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. AND I ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE TRULY UNDECIDED SO I LEFT THEM A FEW ACTIONS BEFORE WE START. IF I WANT TO BE ABLE TO STAND BEHIND THIS RESEARCH, IF WE ARE GOING TO MAKE A CONCLUSION, I WANT TO BE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT CONCLUSION. I USED TO BE A POLLSTER BACK IN THE 1990'S PROBABLY UP TO ABOUT MAYBE 10 YEARS AGO. AND I DECIDED THAT THAT IS NOT WHY WANTED TO BE AND IT IS NOT WHAT THE AMERICAN PUBLIC NEEDED MOST. YOU HAVE ALL THESE PUNDITS TO COME ON THE AIR AFTER THE DEBATE , YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO SAY. BUT THIS TIME ONE OF THE CANDIDATES WAS SO INEFFECTIVE THAT WE HAD SOME SURPRISING COMMENTARY. WHEN I'M TALKING TO MY PARTICIPANTS, FRANKLY I GIVE THEM A LITTLE BIT OF A HARD TIME. I PUSH THEM BECAUSE I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THEY REALLY. NOT WHAT THEY REJECT. THEN THEY WANTS TO DEBATE AND IN THE COMMERCIAL BREAKS I GET THEM BACK INTO GIVE ME CONCLUSIONS WHICH ARE THE TWEETS THAT YOU SAW GOING ALL THROUGH THE NIGHT. I WANT VOTERS AT HOME TO BE ABLE TO KNOW HOW THESE ON THE -- UNDECIDED VOTERS ARE REACTING. I DON'T HAVE? THE TO SHOW IT TO THEM, ALTHOUGH THIS TIME I INVITED SOME REPORTERS TO WATCH ALL THE WAY THROUGH, BECAUSE I WANTED THEM TO GET A GENUINE FEEL OF WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE, WHAT MAKES THEM UNDECIDED IN WHAT IS CAUSING THEM TO SHIFT. THEN THE DEBATE ENDS, WE TALKED FOR ABOUT 45 MINUTES AFTERWARDS AND IT GOT TO TELL YOU, I STARTED DOING THIS IN 1992. I FORGOT ABOUT THIS. THIS IS AN OP-ED THAT I WROTE TO THE NEW YORK TIMES PUBLISHED ABOUT A BIGO. MY ACTUAL FIRST FOCUS GROUP IS 1992. AND IN ALL THAT TIME, IN ALL THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES THAT WE'VE DONE WHICH IS 32 OUT OF 34, I'VE NEVER HAD A FOCUS GROUP BREAK AS SHARPLY AS THIS ONE DID. I'VE NEVER HAD A REACTION FLIGHT THAT HAVE THIS TIME. IT WAS -- JUST AS WE ARE IN UNCHARTED POLITICAL TERRITORY RIGHT NOW, FRANKLY, I WAS AMAZED, I WAS STARTLED, AND I WAS JUST GLUED TO THEIR COMMENTARY. I DIDN'T WANT TO HANG UP WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE SO ARTICULATE AND SO CLEAR AND FRANKLY, SO DISAPPOINTED WITH WHAT THEY SAW. BUT BASICALLY IF YOU ARE WATCHING ME RIGHT NOW, NO MATTER WHAT SIDE YOU'RE ON, REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT, INDEPENDENT LINE, YOU ARE GOING TO BE UNHAPPY WITH WHAT YOU HEAR BECAUSE OUR FOCUS GROUP WAS REALLY UNHAPPY WITH WHAT THEY SAW THURSDAY NIGHT. HOST: WE ARE GOING TO GET INTO SOME OF THE REACTION FROM YOUR FOCUS GROUP, BUT WE WANT TO INVITE THE SCHOLARS HE JUST MENTIONED TO JOIN IN ON THE CONVERSATION. REPUBLICANS, YOU CAN CALL IN AT (202) 748-8001. DEMOCRATS, (202) 748-8000. INDEPENDENT, (202) 748-8002. AND FRANK REFERENCED THE TWEETS THAT HE WAS PUTTING OUT THURSDAY NIGHT DURING THE DEBATE. YOU CAN FIND HIM ON X @FRAN KLUNTZ. WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THEM INCLUDING THIS FIRST ONE. UNDECIDED VOTERS WILL BE PUT TO THE TEST TONIGHT. ARE THEY MORE WORRIED ABOUT SAVING OUR ECONOMY OR SAVING OUR DEMOCRACY? WHAT WAS THE RESULT? GUEST: THE RESULT WAS NEITHER. IT WAS ACTUALLY A DECISION BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP'S PERSONALITY, WHICH THEY DO NOT LIKE, AND JOE BIDEN'S PRESENTATION, WHICH MADE THEM VERY AFRAID. I WANT TO EMPHASIZE, DONALD TRUMP DID NOT WIN THAT DEBATE. JOE BIDEN LOST IT. THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP, HIS CRITICISMS, HIS PERSONAL ATTACKS ON THE PRESIDENT. BUT THEY WERE EVEN MORE AFRAID THAT JOE BIDEN HAD SO MUCH TROUBLE ARTICULATING HIS POINT OF VIEW, DISCUSSING HIS RECORD AND THEN SEVERAL TIMES HE DID BUT I JUST DID RIGHT THERE, WHICH AS HE DID NOT COMPLETE A SENTENCE. SO IT ACTUALLY BECAME TRUMP'S PERSONA VS. BIDENS PERFORMANCE AND BIDEN'S PERFORMANCE WAS SEEN AS COMING UP SHORT. HOST: AND TO THAT POINT, ANOTHER TWEET FROM YOU. I FOCUS GROUP OF UNDECIDED VOTERS WANTS JOE BIDEN TO STEP ASIDE. THEY LIKE AND RESPECT AND, MOST VOTED FOR HIM, BUT THEY WANT HIM TO GO. TONIGHT WITH A POLITICAL EARTHQUAKE, WE SEE MORE BECAUSE LIKE THAT POST-DEBATE. IT'S UNLIKELY TO HAPPEN, SO WHERE DO UNDECIDED VOTERS GO FROM HERE? GUEST: HOPEFULLY THE CHANDELIERS ARE CLOSE TO THE GROUND AND HOPEFULLY THEY DON'T LIVE IN SMALL CONDOS LIKE I DO HERE IN NEW YORK. I DON'T EXPECT MUCH MOVEMENT IN THE POLLS. WHEN DONALD TRUMP WAS FOUND GUILTY OF 34 FELONIES, THE POLLS MOVED LESS THAN TWO POINTS. IF HE CLEARLY BE BUYING IN THIS DEBATE, I WOULD EXPECT THE POLLS TO MOVE BACK TOWARD HIM. HERE IS THE KEY. IT IS IN THOSE SWING STATES AND PARTICULARLY THREE OF THEM, PENNSYLVANIA, MICHIGAN AND WISCONSIN. I RECOMMEND C-SPAN TO A SHOW WITH VOTERS JUST FROM PENNSYLVANIA, MICHIGAN AND WISCONSIN. THE OTHER STATES TRUMP HAS ENOUGH OF A LEAD. IF HE DOESN'T GET ANY OF THEM, HE GETS 268 ELECTORAL VOTES. YOU NEED 270. SO TRUMP MUST WIN EITHER PENNSYLVANIA, MICHIGAN OR WISCONSIN. IF I DIDN'T TAKES ALL THREE, BIDEN IS STILL PRESIDENT. I BELIEVE YOU'RE GOING TO SEE $1 BILLION OF ADVERTISING, OF CAMPAIGNING, OF JUST NEGATIVITY DUMPED ON PEOPLE OVER THE NEXT FOUR POINT 5, 5 MONTHS. AND WHERE DO THEY GO? SO BEGRUDGINGLY AND SO HESITANTLY TOWARDS TRUMP UNLESS THERE IS ANOTHER DEBATE THAT PUTS THEM BACK INTO PLAY. AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS SIMPLE. THEY SAW THEM SIDE-BY-SIDE, TRUMP AND BIDEN. THE PUBLIC SAW THEM SIDE-BY-SIDE. SAW THE COMPARISON. HEARD THE RESPONSES. JOE BIDEN GAVE A GREAT SPEECH ON FRIDAY. IT WAS VERY IMPRESSIVE. IT WAS A JOE BIDEN GOAL. THAT WAS ONLY SEEN BY A FEW MILLION PEOPLE. THIS DEBATE WAS WATCHED BY 51 MILLION PEOPLE WHO SAW THE TWO CANDIDATES DIED BY SIDE. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU RECOVER FROM THAT AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT THE POLITICAL CLASS IS CONCERNED AS HECK WITH BIDENS PERFORMANCE. GOVERNORS, SENATORS, CONGRESSMEN . THERE ASKING ME WHAT DO WE DO? THE BIG IMPACT IS AMONG DEMOCRATIC DONORS WHO ARE ABSOLUTELY APOPLECTIC ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED ON THURSDAY NIGHT AND ARE SCARED TO DEATH THAT THIS IS GOING TO REELECT DONALD TRUMP AND THEY ARE AT A LOSS FOR WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO. HOST: LET'S HEAR FROM OUR AUDIENCE. PAUL IN NEW YORK CITY, INDEPENDENT LINE. CALLER: GOOD MORNING. I WONDER WHETHER OR NOT THE FOCUS ON MESSAGING OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES, IT'S NOT WHAT YOU SAY, IT'S WHAT THEY HEAR WERE SOMETHING LIKE THAT. MAYBE PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE IS SO LITTLE EFFORT TO ACTUALLY DELIVER FOR VOTERS AS OPPOSED TO SIMPLY TRYING TO MESSAGE OR TRYING TO COMMUNICATE AS OPPOSED TO ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHING THINGS. WE ARE AT A POINT NOW WHERE IT SEEMS THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE AGAINST EITHER CANDIDATE, AND I'M WONDERING WHETHER THAT IS BECAUSE FOR DECADES NOW, SO MUCH HASN'T BEEN DONE FOR AVERAGE PEOPLE AND MORE HAS BEEN DONE FOR THE DONOR CLASS BECAUSE -- GUEST: I'M GOING TO ASK IF THE HOST, I WANT TO RESPOND TO AS MANY QUESTIONS AS POSSIBLE. I TEACH MY CADETS YOU DON'T ASK THE SAME QUESTION TWICE. YOU ARE CORRECT. THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS-WORKING ON OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS, IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I'VE TRIED TO BE MUCH MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD AND MUCH LESS PARTISAN. NUMBER ONE, CANDIDATES NEED TO SAY WHAT THEY MEAN, THEY NEED TO MEAN WHAT THEY SAY, AND THEN THEY NEED TO DO WHAT THEY SAY. BUT HERE'S THE ISSUE. IT'S REALLY CRITICAL THAT THEY KEPT GOING BACK TO WHAT THEY HAD DONE, WHAT THEY HAD ACCOMPLISHED RATHER THAN TELLING VOTERS WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO, WHAT IS THEIR AGENDA? YES, I WAS A PLAYER IN IT AND IN SOME WAYS I REGRET THAT. I REALLY WANT THE FOCUS TO BE ON POLICIES. THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN CHANGE. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE MEDIA FOCUSES ON, SOMETHING THAT THE STRATEGIST FOCUSES ON AND THEY FOCUS ON IT BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT VOTERS WANT TO KNOW. BUT I AGREE WITH YOU, YOU ARE CORRECT THAT THERE ARE TWO PERSONALITIES. THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU CHANGE THAT IS BY DEMANDING POLICY RATHER THAN POLITICS, AND IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I THINK WE SHOULD STOP DOING SO MUCH FOCUS ON THE POLLING AND DO A LOT MORE FOCUS ON POLICY AND THE FUTURE SO WE KNOW WHAT THESE NDIDATES ARE GOING TO DO WHEN THEY ARE ELECTED. >> FRANK, A QUESTION FOR YOU. ONCE YOUR FOCUS GROUP WAS OVER, WHAT WITH THE RESULT OF THE FOCUS GROUP? DID ANYONE LAND ON A CANDIDATE? GUEST: YES, THEY DID. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE ASKING BECAUSE YOU WANT TO KNOW OR BECAUSE YOU DO KNOW AND YOU WANT ME TO SAY IT. 12 OF THE 14 MOVED TOWARD DONALD TRUMP ONE OF THE 14 MOVED TOWARD JOE BIDEN AND ONE STATE UNDECIDED. I'VE NEVER HAD SUCH AN OVERWHELMING RESULT TO A PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE, TO A GENERAL ELECTION DEBATE. IT WAS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE AND PERSON AFTER PERSON TALKED ABOUT HOW MUCH THEY REGRETTED IT OR TALKED ABOUT HOW THEY LIKE JOE BIDEN AT ONE POINT OR HOW THEY DISLIKED HOW TRUMP BEHAVED AND THEN THEY SAID BUT I CAN'T GET AWAY FROM WHAT JOE BIDEN, HIS PERFORMANCE. I CAN'T GET AWAY FOR HOW MUCH TROUBLE HE HAD ARTICULATING WORDS. I DID NOT SEE IT UNTIL YESTERDAY EVENING. AFTER THE DEBATE WAS OVER WE WENT RIGHT TO THE FOCUS GROUP. I DID NOT SEE JOE BIDEN COMING OFF THE STAGE AND I'VE HAD A COUPLE OF STROKES OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, SO I KNOW WHAT IT IS TO WALK DOWNSTAIRS AND HAVE SOME DIFFICULTY. IF VOTERS HAVE SEEN THAT, IF VOTERS HAD SN FINE COMING OFF THE STAGE I THINK IT WOULD HAVE ADDED TO A VERY BAD NIGHT FOR HIM. BUT I DON'T WANT THE TRUMP PEOPLE TO DO THIS RAH RAH THING BECAUSE HE WASN'T SO GREAT EITHER. AND IN THE END IF YOU WANT TO GET AWAY FROM THIS UGLINESS AND THIS DIVISIVENESS, GET AWAY FROM THE REPUBLICAN LINE AND THE DEMOCRATIC LINE AND THE INDEPENDENT LINE, AND INSTEAD LISTED A CALL FROM THE NORTHEAST, THE MIDWEST, FROM CALIFORNIA OR FLORIDA. IF WE WANT TO GET AWAY FROM THAT, WE HAVE TO LOOK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE STRAIGHT IN THE EYE AND TELL THE TRUTH. THIS IS WHAT I TEACH, THIS IS HOW I TRY TO WIN, AND THAT DEBATE RESPONSE WAS SO OVERWHELMING AND IT SHOWED UP IN THE POLLS. THAT LAST PAUL HAD TRUMP LEADING BIDEN BY 2-1 AND WE KNOW THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF BIDEN VOTERS WATCHING. IT IS GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT, BUT NOT A BIG ONE ON HIS POLL NUMBERS WHEN HE STARTS TO RELEASE THEM OVER THE NEXT 24 TO 48 HOURS. HOST: BARBARA IN EASTPOINTE MICHIGAN ON THE DEMOCRATS LINE, GOOD MORNING. CALLER: THANK YOU FOR TAKING MY CALL. I AM A DEMOCRAT AND I AM REALLY A JOE BIDEN SUPPORTER. I THINK HE HAS WISDOM AND INTELLIGENCE, HE JUST DOESN'T HAVE THE OLD BODY FOR IT ANYMORE. BUT I WENT BACK ON CNN AND I WATCHED IT. AND I CHANGE MY MIND. I WAS CRUSHED AT THE END OF THE DEBATE. UNTIL I WATCHED IT AGAIN LAST NIGHT, AND I DEFINITELY CHANGED MY MIND. I AM IN JOE CAMP 100%. MY SOLUTION TO THIS IS LET HIM GET HIS DELEGATES TO KAMALA AND THEN SHE CAN CHOOSE HIM AS HER VICE PRESIDENT. I THINK IT WOULD BE A WINNING TICKET STILL. BUT THE THING I WANT TO KNOW, I CAN'T SEE US ELECTING TRUMP. I HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO SEE IT. GUEST: CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION? CALLER: I'M STILL WITH HIM. HOST: BARBARA, FRANK WANTS TO ASK YOU A QUESTION. GUEST: I'M GOING TO ASK. WHEN YOU WATCH A SECOND TIME, WAS YOUR EVALUATION OF FIGHTING BETTER THAN THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW HIM ON THURSDAY NIGHT, OR WAS HER SECOND WATCH OF THE DEBATE, REVIEW MORE DISAPPOINTED IN HIM? CALLER: IT WAS BETTER. I KNOW, I WAS PROBABLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THE DEBATE THE FIRST TIME. HE LOOKED PRETTY BAD PHYSICALLY. NOT A REAL GOOD START MENTALLY UNTIL I WATCHED AT THE SECOND TIME. THE SECOND TIME HE ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS, HE WAS ABLE TO RECALL EVERYTHING THAT THEY HAD DONE, AND HE DOES SLIP UP EVERY NOW AND THEN ON AN ANSWER, BUT TRUMP DIDN'T ANSWER A SINGLE THING. GUEST: PEOPLE MAY COME TO REEVALUATE. THIS HAPPENED IN 1994. RONALD REAGAN HAD A VERY BAD FIRST DEBATE. IN FACT IT HAPPENED AGAIN IN 2000 FORWARD GEORGE W. BUSH. IT HAPPENED IN 2008 -- SORRY, 2000 12 WITH BARACK OBAMA AND MITT ROMNEY. THERE HAVE BEEN CASES WHERE THE INCUMBENT DOES A REALLY POOR JOB AND PEOPLE ARE SHOCKED AND THEY MOVE AWAY FROM HIM. AND THEY HAVE A SECOND DEBATE AND THEY PERFORM MUCH BETTER. SO THE CHALLENGE FOR THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN IS TO PUT HIM UP AGAINST DONALD TRUMP IN SEPTEMBER AS THEY PROMISED TO DO, AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE WILL BE A SECOND DEBATE. I TAKE YOUR POINT AND THAT MAKES ME WANT TO ASK MY FOCUS GROUP AGAIN IN A WEEK OR SO AND HAVE THEM RE-EXAMINE WHAT THEY SAW AND SEE IF THERE HAS BEEN ANY CHANGE. BARBARA, YOU ARE FROM A STATE THAT REALLY MATTERS. YOU ARE A VOTER THAT REALLY MATTERS AND I APPRECIATE YOUR PERSPECTIVE. POST: TOMMY FROM GEORGIA ON THE REPUBLICAN LINE. CALLER: I'M A BLACK REPUBLICAN, BELIEVE IN REPUBLICAN PRINCIPLES. BUT DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A REAL REPUBLICAN. WHEN I WATCH THE DEBATE, BIDEN COULDN'T REALLY ARTICULATE HIS STANCES ON DIFFERENT POLICIES, BUT TRUMP, HE EVERY TIME. HE DIDN'T ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. IT WAS INTEGRATION, HE WOULD TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION. IT WAS INJUSTICE, THAT IS WHAT HE TALKED ABOUT. THE MAIN THINGS IN THE FALL THAT HE WAS WINNING, THAT IS WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT. NEVER ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, JUST WENT STRAIGHT TO THE POLLS. I LISTENED TO JOE BIDEN A SECOND TIME AND I LISTENED MORE CLOSELY, I FEEL A LOT BETTER LIKE A LADY BEFORE ME. MAYBE HE DIDN'T DO AS BAD AS I THOUGHT. AND THEN AFTER SEEING HIM IN PUBLIC AFTERWARDS, HE LOOKED LIKE HE WAS BACK TO HIS OLD SELF AGAIN, SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED ON THE DEBATE STAGE BUT I WILL DEFINITELY BE TUNING IN ON SEPTEMBER 10 OR 11TH BECAUSE IF HE HAS THE SAME PERFORMANCE, AND SOMEBODY ELSE WILL HAVE TO STEP IN. GUEST: LET ME ADD TWO THINGS TO THAT BECAUSE I CAN PROVIDE PERSPECTIVE. TRUMP IS GETTING ABOUT 30% OF THE YOUNG AFRICAN-AMERICAN MALES, WHICH HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. AND SO HE'S MAKING SOME INROADS AMONG THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY. THAT IS UNPRECEDENTED. THEY MAY GO BACK TO THE DEMOCRATS, BUT WHERE THE CAMPAIGN STANDS RIGHT NOW, HE IS PULLING VOTES THAT REPUBLICANS NORMALLY DON'T GET. IN TERMS OF THAT SECOND PERFORMANCE, HOW YOU ANALYZE THAT, YOU DON'T HAVE A TELEPROMPTER IN A DEBATE. YOU DON'T HAVE ANYONE WHISPERING IN YOUR EAR, IT IS JUST YOU ALONE UP ON STAGE. AND HERE'S THE OTHER ISSUE WHICH IS THAT BIDEN'S CAMPAIGN SAID THAT HE HAD A COLD. HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HIS HEALTH UNTIL THE DEBATE WAS ALREADY ON AND SAID THAT HE WAS ALREADY HAVING TROUBLE. THEY WERE TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHY HIS VOICE WAS SO WEAK. I'M NOT SURE I BELIEVE THAT. IF YOUR CANDIDATE ISN'T HEALTHY, WHY DON'T YOU TELL PEOPLE THAT THE DAY OF THE EVENT TO LOWER EXPECTATIONS? WHY DON'T YOU EXPLAIN IT AT THE BEGINNING? WHY DIDN'T BIDEN HIMSELF SAY LOOK, I WISH I WAS NOT DEBATING WITH A 99 DEGREE FEVER OR HAVING A COLD, BUT THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO. YOU EXPLAIN IT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, YOU DON'T USE IT AS NEXT IS, USE IT AS I FORMATION, AND THEY DIDN'T DO THAT. SO THAT SUGGESTS TO ME THAT I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS THE TRUTH. I DON'T WANT TO CALL ANYONE DISHONEST, BUT HIS VOICE WAS NOT STRONG. HIS PRESENTATION WAS NOT STRONG. AND IT WAS EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE THE NEXT DAY WHEN HE SPOKE. SO MAYBE THERE ARE TWO JOE BIDEN'S, THE ONE WE SAW DEBATE NIGHT AND THE ONE THE DAY AFTER. BUT IN THE END, THE PUBLIC IS GOING TO MAKE A DECISION BASED ON THE DEBATE NIGHT BECAUSE 50 MILLION PEOPLE WERE WATCHING THAT EVENING. THAT IS A GOOD COMMENT. HOST: BRUCE, LEXINGTON, KENTUCKY ON THE INDEPENDENT LINE. CALLER: HELLO. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THEY COULD DO TO SAVE HIS CANDIDACY. LET ME TELL YOU WHO LIVE. THE SPOKESMAN FOR TRUMP THAT DOES THE DAILY NEWS UPDATES OR WHATEVER. SAYING BIDEN IS SHARP AS A TACK. COME ON, GUYS, WE KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE. THE NEWS REPORTERS SAYING I SPEAK WITH HIM EVERY DAY, HE IS SHARP AS A TACK. IT IS OBVIOUS THE SKY IS NOT SHARP AS A TACK. THE DEMOCRATS, FORGET WHO IS GOING TO GET ELECTED. HE IS OUR PRESIDENT NOW AND OUR COUNTRY IS IN PERIL. THIS MAN IS NOT UP TO THE TASK. TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT TYPES OF CAMPAIGN STRATEGIES AT THIS POINT, I THINK YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT. THIS ANYBODY CARE ABOUT THE SECURITY OF OUR COUNTRY RIGHT NOW? GUEST: I GET IT, AND THAT IS AN INTERESTING COMMENT. I WILL TELL YOU I MET WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN JUST BEFORE HIS GRADUATION SPEECH AT WEST POINT, AND HE WAS ABSOLUTELY ON. SO I SAW WITH MY OWN EYES, THE ONLY TIME I'VE SEEN HIM IN YEARS WAS JUST BEFORE THAT SPEECH, ONLY TIME I'VE TALKED TO HIM. AND YOUR POINT IS WELL TAKEN AND IT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY VOTERS DID MOVE TOWARDS TRUMP AND WERE SO FRUSTRATED WITH THAT DEBATE. IN THE END, AND I'VE BEEN TRYING TO MEASURE THIS SPECIFICALLY, THERE IS GREATER CONCERN ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY IN THIS ELECTION THAN IN ANY TIME SINCE 2004. THERE IS CONCERN ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST, SPECIFICALLY THE ISRAELI CONFLICT. THERE'S MORE CONCERNED ABOUT UKRAINE AND RUSSIA. THERE'S MORE CONCERNED ABOUT CHINA AND TAIWAN. SO WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY, THE QUESTION THEN IS IF THE PRESIDENT UP TO IT AND IS THIS THE KIND OF IMAGE WE WANT TO PROJECT TO THE WORLD? BECAME A TOPIC, BUT ONLY BRIEFLY. IT WAS USED AS A REASON WHY SWAP -- SOME VOTERS HAD SWITCHED FROM UNDECIDED TO TRUMP. THEY MAY NOT HAVE AGREED WITH HIS FOREIGN WERE LIKE HIS BLUSTER BUT THEY FELT THAT HE WOULD BETTER REPRESENT AMERICA AND HE WOULD BE A STRONGER LEADER THAN JOE BIDEN. SO YOUR POINT IS VERY WELL TAKEN AND IN FACT, ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN THESE DISCUSSIONS, EVERY SINGLE WEEK I HOLD A FOCUS GROUP. I AM HEARING MORE AND MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT IS AMERICA SHOW THE WORLD BASED ON THE SITUATION WITH JOE BIDEN RIGHT NOW? >> LETS HEAR FROM EDWARD IN MICHIGAN ON THE DEMOCRATS LINE. GOOD MORNING. CALLER: YES, GOOD MORNING. I'M STUNNED AT THIS COMMENT BY FRANK LUNTZ, ABSOLUTELY STUNNED. LET ME ASK ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY. DO YOU THINK UNDER A TRUMP PRESIDENCY WE WOULD PULL OUT OF NATO -- MAYBE U CAN ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS BECAUSE TRUMP DOESN'T SEEM TO WANT TO ANSWER THEM. WHEN WE PULL OUT OF NATO, WOULD WE WITHDRAW AID TO UKRAINE? UKRAINE COLLAPSE? WOULD THE RUSSIANS OCCUPY AND CONSOLIDATE AND CONTROL UKRAINE? WOULD RUSSIA CONTINUE TO ADVANCE IN EASTERN EUROPE? WHAT WOULD TRUMP DO? WHAT HE CALLED UP HIS FRIEND VLADIMIR PUTIN, WOODY CALL UP HIS FRIEND AND SET VLAD, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS SUCH A GOOD IDEA BUT THIS EASTERN EUROPEAN STUFF? GUEST: MY RESPONSE -- CAN I RESPOND? FIRST OFF, I LOVE THE FACT THAT YOU ARE PULLING MICHIGAN VOTERS BECAUSE THE STATE MATTERS. SECOND, I'M GOING TO DO SOMETHING I NEVER DO WHICH IS ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, I AGREE WITH THE CALLER. I ABSOLUTELY DO. I DON'T KNOW WHY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PULLING OUT OF NATO, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE ARE NOT PROVIDING THE AGE. NOW LET ME GO BACK TO MY POLLSTER BASIS. IT'S NOT THE POLICY IN THIS CASE. IT IS, AND THE SUPPORT UNFORTUNATELY FOR UKRAINE HAS DROPPED A LITTLE BIT, IT IS THE PRESENTATION. WHY DIDN'T BIDEN SAY THIS? WHY DIDN'T BIDEN COMMUNICATE THIS? IN THAT 90 MINUTE DEBATE THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS ON FOREIGN POLICY AND JOE BIDEN DIDN'T DO IT AS WELL. SO I THINK IF BIDEN HAD BEEN AS ARTICULATE AS YOU ARE, MAYBE TRUMP WOULD HAVE BEEN HURT BY THAT. BUT HE WASN'T. AND THAT'S THE ISSUE. YOU CAN ONLY EVALUATE SOMEONE BASED ON WHAT THEY SAY AND DON'T SAY AND HOW THEY SAY IT. SO I GET YOUR PASSION. I GET YOUR POINT OF VIEW. IT IS SHARED. BUT AS A POLLSTER, THAT IS NOT HOW JOE BIDEN COMMUNICATED ON DEBATE NIGHT, AND I'M SORRY THAT HE DIDN'T. HOST: FRANK, AFTER PRESIDENT BIDEN'S PERFORMANCE, TWO HEADLINED THE NEW YORK TIMES TODAY. A CASE FOR HERSELF, AND FROM THE OPINION PAGES, THE HEADLINE HARRIS 2024 SOUNDS PRETTY GOOD RIGHT NOW. HOW DOES VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS FACTOR INTO WHAT WE SAW ON THURSDAY AND POTENTIAL ELECTION OUTCOMES? GUEST: SUDDENLY THIS IS A GREAT SHOW. THE COLORS ARE ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS, MAKING THE RIGHT STATEMENTS AND YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING RIGHT NOW. BECAUSE BASED ON BIDEN'S PERFORMANCE, THE SINGLE BEST ONE THAT I GOT FROM THE FOCUS GROUP WAS A PERSON WHO ARTICULATED WITH A NOW VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS? I'M NOT SO SURE ABOUT JOE BIDEN OVER THE NEXT FOUR MONTHS. SO VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS IS CAPABLE OF ACTUALLY COMING INTO PLAY. JUST AS DONALD TRUMP'S CHOICE FOR VICE PRESIDENT MATTERS MORE NOW THAN IT EVER HAS. AND THAT IS SOMETHING HE PROBABLY DOESN'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT BECAUSE HE THINKS IT IS ALL ABOUT HIM, AND IT'S NOT. FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE THE MOST IMPORTANT VICE PRESIDENTIAL CHOICE SINCE JOHN MCCAIN CHOSE SARAH PALIN IN 2008. THE NUMBERS ARE NOT GOOD. HER POLLING IS NOT GOOD. SHE'S MAKING THE CASE FOR HERSELF RIGHT NOW, SHE SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS A YEAR AGO, TWO YEARS AGO. SHE WAS SPECIFICALLY GIVEN THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE AND IMMIGRATION IS GAINING AND GAINING ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY. NOT JUST IN BORDER STATES. GETTING HIGHER AND HIGHER AS A PRIORITY AND RIGHT NOW, THE ISSUES THAT MATTER MOST TO THE MOST NUMBER OF PEOPLE ARE THE TWO I'S. INFLATION AND IMMIGRATION. AND SHE WAS NOWHERE TO BE SEEN. I DON'T WANT TO DO POLITICS, I WANT TO DO WHAT THE PUBLIC THINKS, AND HER NUMBERS ARE REALLY POOR AND THERE ARE OTHER DEMOCRATS THAT I BELIEVE WOULD BE STRONGER AND IF I MAY, YOU HAVE GOVERNOR WES MOORE FROM MARYLAND, YOU HAVE A CHIEF SPOKESMAN, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS. YOU HAVE GAVIN NEWSOM, THE GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA. GRETCHEN WHITMER, THE GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN. CORY BOOKER, THE CENTER OF NEW JERSEY. PETE BUTTIGIEG, SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION. ALL OF THESE DEMOCRATS TO BE STRONGER CANDIDATES AGAINST DONALD TRUMP AND THE VICE PRESIDENT WOULD BE. SO I'M SURE THAT IS GOING TO ELICIT A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER CALLS INTO YOUR SHOW. BUT THERE ARE DEMOCRATS WHO DONALD TRUMP SHOULD BE AFRAID OF. AND I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS GOING TO BECOME AN ISSUE, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT BIDEN HAS DECIDED TO STAY AND THAT HE IS GOING TO WAIT IT OUT. BUT YOU HAVE THE ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION. I BELIEVE THAT IF THE NEWSPAPER, AND DEFINITELY THE NEW YORK TIMES: ON BIDEN TO DROP OUT. INDIVIDUAL COLONISTS FROM ACROSS THE SPECTRUM HAVE DONE THE SAME THING. I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE THE VICE PRESIDENT TO REPLACE JOE BIDEN. I THINK THERE ARE OTHER CANDIDATES WHO WILL MAKE A STRONGER CLAIM THAT THEY ARE MORE ELECTABLE. HOST: LET'S HEAR FROM JERRY IN VIRGINIA ON THE REPUBLICAN LINE. GOOD MORNING. >> FIRST OFF, I'D LIKE TO SAY ON THURSDAY NIGHT JOE BIDEN SAID HE WOULD BE HAPPY TO TAKE A COGNITIVE TEST, AND HE SHOULD DO THAT TOMORROW AND IT SHOULD BE WITNESSED. AND ANOTHER THING, ALL THE STATE NEWS MEDIA OUTLETS SAYING ALL THE THINGS ABOUT TRUMP LYING THROUGH THE DEBATE. THEY WERE NOT LIES. THE NATIONAL GUARD RESPONSE, NUMEROUS SENATE AND HOUSE HEARINGS HAVE PROVED THAT TRUMP DID IN FACT AUTHORIZED 10,000 NATIONAL GUARD TO THE CAPITOL AND JANUARY 6 AND SAID NO, THEY DO NOT WANT THEM. GUEST: THEY DID GO TO THE DEBATE, THEY WENT TO THE TRANSCRIPT.ARE YOU EARS? --GOING TO BELIEVE YOUR EYES, YOUR EARS? I'M NOT SAYING THAT ABOUT THE POINTS THAT YOU RAISED, BUT ON OTHER ISSUES. THESE UNDECIDED VOTERS STILL DON'T LIKE HIS PERSONA. CAN YOU TELL PEOPLE ABOUT YOURSELF RATHER THAN CONDEMNING YOUR OPPONENT? CAN YOU TELL PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT TERM WILL BRING RATHER THAN CONDEMNING THE LAST FOUR YEARS? THAT'S WHAT REPORTERS ARE ASKING FOR. IF YOU WANT TO WRITE US DOWN TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE TRUMP STRATEGIST WATCHING AND BIDEN STRATEGIST WATCHING, NUMBER ONE, RONALD REAGAN'S ARE YOU BETTER OFF NOW THAN YOU WERE FOUR YEARS AGO, ASKING RHETORICAL QUESTION. GIVE THREE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES OF HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED, FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE. TALKING ABOUT INFLATION AND IMMIGRATION. JOE BIDEN WOULD TALK ABOUT INVESTMENT IN INFRASTRUCTURE, HE WOULD TALK ABOUT FOCUSING ON NEW TECHNOLOGY. THIRD IS TO GIVE PEOPLE THREE DIFFERENT PRIORITIES FOR THE FUTURE, WHAT YOU WANT TO DO ON DAY ONE. VOTERS DID NOT HEAR ANY OF THAT AND FOR SOME SORT OF AUDACIOUS, REALLY VISIONARY LOOK TOWARD THE FUTURE IN SOME SPECIAL WAY. ON ALL SIDES, DEMOCRAT, INDEPENDENT, REPUBLICAN, NEITHER CANDIDATE DID THAT. SO LET'S NOT SAY THAT DONALD TRUMP DIDN'T MISLEAD PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT THE VIDEO. AND LET'S NOT SAY THAT JOE BIDEN IS PERFECTLY READY TO SERVE ANOTHER FOUR YEARS, BECAUSE WE SAW WITH OUR OWN EYES AND WE HEARD. AND I JUST WISH THERE WAS SOME WAY THAT WE COULD ACTUALLY AGREE TO DISAGREE, AND I APPLAUD THE CALLERS UP TO THIS POINT FOR BEING REASONABLE, SENSIBLE AND RESPONSIBLE IN THEIR APPROACH, AND WE HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT WE DON'T AGREE. THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED THE DIGNITY INDEX THAT TIM SHRIVER HAS BEEN PUSHING. AND IT'S REALLY BEAUTIFUL BECAUSE IT SAYS THAT -- AND ALSO, THE NATIONAL GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION INITIATIVE, THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY COME FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES, WE HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS BUT WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO BE BETTER AND WE HAVE TO GIVE PEOPLE THEIR DIGNITY, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED SO FAR THIS MORNING. HOST: ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR. DIDN'T MAKE THE DEBATE STAGE FOR THURSDAY'S PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE, BUT HE DID HOLD AN EVENT WHERE HE ANSWERED THE QUESTION, THE SAME QUESTION LIVE IN FRONT OF AN AUDIENCE. IN YOUR FOCUS GROUP, WAS ANYONE CONSIDERING AN ALTERNATIVE CANDIDATE, NOT BIDEN OR TRUMP, AND WHAT OTHER THOUGHTS? GUEST: I THINK FOUR OF THE 14 WERE ACTUALLY LEANING TOWARD ROBERT KENNEDY JR.. FOR A THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATE TO BE VIABLE AS ROSS PEROT WAS, HE HAS TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE. AND THE REASON WHY ROBERT KENNEDY WAS NOT INVITED IS BECAUSE HE IS NOT ON ENOUGH STATES TO POTENTIALLY WIN THE ELECTION. YOU HAVE TO BE ON THE BALLOT OF STATES THEY COULD GIVE YOU 270 ELECTORAL VOTES. I BELIEVE THAT HE WILL QUALIFY FOR THAT BY SEPTEMBER. KENNEDY'S AVERAGE JUST BEFORE THE DEBATE WAS ABOUT 10%. SOME A LITTLE ABOVE, SOME A LITTLE BELOW. THIS CAMPAIGN TO GET ON MORE STATE BALLADS AND TO PUSH THAT PERCENTAGE OF THE 15%. BUT YES, HE WILL BE A FACTOR IF YOU MAKE THE DEBATE STAGE IN SEPTEMBER. IF WE EVEN HAVE A DEBATE. HOST: WHAT ARE THE FACTORS THAT ARE PULLING VOTERS TOWARD A CANDIDATE LIKE ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR.? IS IT ANTI-BIDEN OR TRUMP, OR ARE THEY TRULY INTERESTED IN JUST HAVING SOMEBODY ELSE AS AN OPTION? GUEST: ONE THIRD CANNOT VOTE FOR EITHER TRUMP OR BIDEN SO THEY WILL BE VOTING THIRD PARTY. ONE THIRD TRULY WANT A NEW VOICE. I THINK THAT IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST DISAPPOINTMENT OF 2024. THAT THEY ARE CHOOSING DELIBERATELY A THIRD-PARTY TO SEND A MESSAGE TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. AND ABOUT ONE THIRD ARE SUPPORTING ROBERT KENNEDY TO GET THEY SIMPLY LIKE HIS AGENDA. HOST: LET'S HEAR FROM DENNY FROM MISSOURI ON THE DEMOCRATS LINE. CALLER: THANKS FOR TAKING MY CALL. I'M JUST REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT THINKING DOWN THE ROAD AND THEY ARE THINKING ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW THIS MINUTE. I KNOW PRESIDENT BIDEN DIDN'T SOUND THE BEST AND I DO TRUTHFULLY BELIEVE HE HAD A HEAD COLD, YOU COULD JUST TELL THAT HE WAS NOT HIMSELF, AND I KNOW THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF JUST SHOCK THAT TRUMP WILL GET OUT AND HE IS GOING TO JUST SAY THE SAME THINGS REPETITIVELY. NOT ABOUT WHAT HE IS GOING TO DO FOR THE COUNTRY, THE GREATEST IT'S EVER BEEN, AND I DID IT ALL PERFECTLY AND BLAH BLAH. I'VE NEVER READ THE 2025 PLAN THAT HE HAS, BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO DIG INTO THAT BECAUSE I KNOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE NEVER GOING TO STAND FOR THE PLAN HE HAS FOR US. GUEST: I'M JUST CURIOUS. I DON'T MEAN TO BE PERSONAL, BUT I'M ASKING PERSONAL QUESTION. DO YOU HAVE CHILDREN? CALLER: DO I HAVE CHILDREN? YES, I HAVE CHILDREN. SEVEN. GUEST: HOW OLD IS THE OLDEST AND HOW OLD IS THE YOUNGEST? CALLER: MY OLDEST IS 42 AND MY YOUNGEST IS 35. I OLDEST GRANDSON IS 23. GUEST: SO YOUR GRANDCHILD GETS TO VOTE. THIS IS SOMETHING I DO EVERY TIME I GET TO DO SO, DON'T VOTE FOR THIS ELECTION, BOTH FOR THE NEXT GENERATION. IT'S NOT ABOUT 2024, IT'S ABOUT 20 44 AND 2054. YOU AND I ARE ON THE SAME PAGE AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO SAVE THIS DEMOCRACY, TO RETURN TO WHERE WE ONCE WERE AS A COUNTRY, WHERE WE WERE AT LEAST MORE UNIFIED, WHERE WE RESPECTED ELECTION RESULTS, WHERE WE RESPECTED EACH OTHER. WE WOULD STILL DISAGREE, BUT WE APPRECIATED THE OTHER POINT OF VIEW. I'M ASKING PEOPLE NOT TO VOTE FOR WHAT YOU WANT RIGHT NOW, BUT IF THINK OF YOUR CHILDREN AND IN YOUR CASE, YOUR GRANDCHILDREN, AND WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM. SO AGAIN I'VE GOT A SAFER C-SPAN, WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE. AND NOTICE HOW RESPECTFUL EVERYONE HAS BEEN THIS MORNING. I LOVE THIS AND I LOVE THE GIVE-AND-TAKE AND I APOLOGIZE FOR ASKING YOU WANT QUESTIONS BUT YOU ARE TEACHING ME AS A POSTER AND I WILL MAKE AN OFFER TO C-SPAN THAT WE SHOULD DO A FOCUS GROUP. WE COULD ACTUALLY PUT UNDECIDED VOTERS AND VOTERS WHO CARE ABOUT IT, WE COULD DO A LIVE FOCUS GROUP AND YOU COULD SEE ALL OF AMERICA IN OF YOU. YOU COULD PUT SOMEONE FROM EVERY STATE IN THE COUNTRY UP THERE BECAUSE IN THE END, YOUR VOICE MATTERS. YOUR COMMITMENT MATTERS. YOUR VOTE MATTERS. AND IT HAS NEVER MATTERED MORE THAN IT DOES RIGHT NOW. HOST: LET'S HEAR FROM BOBBY IN ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA ON THE INDEPENDENT LINE. CALLER: GOOD MORNING, THANK YOU FOR TAKING MY CALL. THERE IS ONE THING TO THE SIDE AND THAT IS THE TRUTH AND THAT IS WHAT WE SAW THURSDAY NIGHT. BEHIND ALL OF THE SPINS COMING IN ABOUT HOW SHARP HE IS AND HIS COGNITIVE ABILITY, AND THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ABOUT HIS SYNOPSIS OF PRESIDENT BIDEN AS AN OLDER MAN, SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT, MY GOD. WHAT IS HE SAYING? I THINK THE WALL STREET JOURNAL CAME OUT AND SAID PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT DONALD IS KIND OF SLIPPING A LITTLE BIT. AND THEN WE SAW YOU DON'T HAVE A SECOND CHANCE TO MAKE A FIRST IMPRESSION. GUEST: CAN I JUMP IN? I WANT TO PICK UP MY PHONE BUT I DON'T WANT TO DO IT ON CAMERA BECAUSE I WANT TO WRITE BOTH OF THOSE DOWN. I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, CALLER, IF YOU ARE STILL ON, I WANT TO CALL YOU BY YOUR FIRST NAME. CALLER: IT WAS BOBBY WHEN I WAS A KID. I'M 78 YEARS OLD. GUEST: I WILL GIVE YOU CREDIT FOR BEING A KID. I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS GOING TO OPEN UP MY CLASS IN THE FALL. WHY IS ONLY ONE SIDE THE TRUTH, AND YOU DON'T GET A SECOND CHANCE TO MAKE A FIRST IMPRESSION. YOU HAVE SO IMPACTED ME WITH THOSE COMMENTS AND I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. I LIKE YOUR HOCKEY TEAM. YOU ARE CORRECT. AND IN THE END, THE DEMOCRATS BELIEVE THAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE LIARS. THE REPUBLICANS BELIEVE THE DEMOCRATS ARE LYING. MOST AMERICANSELIEVE MOST POLITICIANS DON'T TELL THE TRUTH, AND THAT IS A SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS WE ARE IN. I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU ONE STATISTIC RIGHT NOW. 83% OF AMERICANS BELIEVE THIS IS THE MOST DIVIDED WE HAVE EVER BEEN AS A COUNTRY AND AMONG THOSE, OVER A 65 WHICH ARE REALIZED AS A FAIR NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WATCH C-SPAN IN THE MORNING, IT'S 92%. YOU LIVE THROUGH THE ASSASSINATION OF BOBBY KENNEDY AND MARTIN LUTHER KING. YOU LIVE THROUGH CITIES BURNING DOWN WITH THE DESTRUCTION OF THE ECONOMY. DOUBLE-DIGIT INFLATION. HE LIVED TO THE VIETNAM WAR PROTEST IN CHICAGO 1968. AND YET YOU SAY WE ARE MORE DIVIDED NOW. IF WE COULD TEACH THAT TO EVERY YOUNG PERSON, THE TRUTH ONLY HAS ONE SIDE AND YOU ONLY HAVE ONE CHANCE TO MAKE A GOOD FIRST IMPRESSION. I THINK THAT IS THE BEGINNING OF GETTING BACK ON THE RIGHT TRACK AS A COUNTRY AND AS A SOCIETY. OF ALL THE CALLS, THIS ONE IS MY FAVORITE SO FAR. CALLER: THANKS. HOST: JEFF IN NORTH CAROLINA, REPUBLICAN LINE. CALLER: YOUR STATE ACTUALLY TRUMP NOW HAS A FIVE-POINT ADVANTAGE. NORTH CAROLINA SEEMS TO BE MOVING TOWARD TRUMP RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS A REAL CONCERN FOR THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN. CALLER: THOSE WERE JUST A BUNCH OF LITTLE STUDENTS -- ANYHOW, THE DEBATE JUST EXPOSED HOW JOE BIDEN AND THE WHOLE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA ESPECIALLY CNN HAVE BEEN LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THE PAST FOUR YEARS. SAFE AND PROPER HIM OUT AND HIDING HIM, SAYING HOW GREAT HE IS, AND WE'VE ALL BEEN LIED TO. GUEST: OK, HOLD ON. HOLD ON. EACH ONE COMMUNICATES THROUGH THE AUDIENCE. 50 WATCH MSNBC, YOU GET ONE VIEW. FOX, YOU GET ANOTHER. I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE TOP IN THE COUNTRY. AND I WILL GIVE YOU THE CONCLUSION. WE WATCH NEWS TO AFFIRM US RATHER THAN INFORM US. SO WHAT ITEM REPUBLICANS IS TO PLEASE AT LEAST FOR 10, 15 MINUTES A DAY, WATCH, SYMBION -- MSNBC. I SAY TO DEMOCRATS, WATCH FOX NEWS. YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT YOUR OPPOSITION -- AND THEY ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT. THEY ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY. WE MAY DISAGREE WITH PERSPECTIVE, WE MAY EVEN DISAGREE WITH OUTCOME, BUT IT IS NOT ABOUT DIVIDING A COUNTRY. AT LEAST IT SHOULDN'T BE. WE NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH. AT THE PREVIOUS CALLER SAID, THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH. SO I GET YOUR ANGER AND I GET YOUR FRUSTRATION. MSNBC IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO REPORT THEIR WAY, FOX WILL REPORT THEIR WAY. C-SPAN MAKES SURE THEY HAVE A DEMOCRAT, REPUBLICAN, AND INDEPENDENT VOICE, BUT IN THE END I HOPE THAT OTHER TIME THIS ELECTION IS OVER, WE HAVE AN AMERICAN VOICE. IT IS WHAT WE DESERVE, IT IS WHAT WE WANT, WHAT WE NEED AND WHAT WE DESERVE. AMERICAN VOICE. HOST: FRANK TALKING ABOUT NORTH CAROLINA, THE HEADLINE IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL. BIDEN IS POURING MILLIONS INTO A STATE DEMOCRATS HAVEN'T WON SINCE 2008. THE DEMOCRATIC INCUMBENT FACES THE CHALLENGES IN NORTH CAROLINA BUT SIX ALTERNATIVE PATHS TO 70 ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES. LET'S HEAR FROM ANTHONY IN KENTUCKY ON THE DEMOCRATS LINE. GOOD MORNING, ANTHONY. CALLER: GOOD MORNING, THANKS FOR TAKING MY CALL. HOST: GO AHEAD. CALLER: I JUST WANTED FACT ABOUT BIDEN SUPPOSEDLY HAVING A COLD RING THE DEBATE. I THINK CONSISTENTLY ABOUT 25% OF RESPIRATORY SYMPTOMS PROBABLY FROM COVID. IT IS SOMETHING BOTH PRESIDENTS HAVE DOWNPLAYED AND IGNORED. THEY HAVE TRIED TO PUSH IT ASIDE. TRUMP SAID IT WOULD GO AWAY. YOU CAN NOW ONLY FIND IT IN THE WASTEWATER, THAT PEOPLE ARE SHEDDING INTO THE WASTEWATER. THAT IS THE ONLY DATA WE HAVE UNCOATED STUFF RIGHT NOW WHILE IT IS STILL HUGELY DANGEROUS AND WE DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT IT. GUEST: I WANT US TO BE CAREFUL HERE BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE DO TUNE IN AND I WANT TO BE WITH THE CAREFUL NOT TO PUSH THEORY IS THAT WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE AND NO FACTS BEHIND. THE SECOND IS THAT JOE BIDEN IF HE HAD COVID AUNTIE, RECKLESSLY BETTER THE NEXT DAY, HIS PERFORMANCE ON FRIDAY WAS REALLY, REALLY SHARP. AND YOU DON'T GO FROM HAVING A BAD FORM THURSDAY NIGHT TO BEING TOTALLY HEALTHY AND TOTALLY BACK. SO I DON'T THINK THIS WAS COVID. I THINK HE SIMPLY HAD A REALLY BAD NIGHT ON THURSDAY AND A REALLY GOOD DAY ON FRIDAY. I THINK IT HELPED SAVE HIS CAMPAIGN. BUT YOU DO RAISE A LEGITIMATE POINT. THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE THESE SITUATIONS LIKE COVID SERIOUSLY. WE HAVE LOST OUR FAITH IN SCIENCE, WE'VE LOST OUR FAITH IN MEDICINE, AND I'M NERVOUS THAT THE NEXT TIME THAT WE HAVE SOME KIND OF OUTBREAK, WE WON'T DO THE RIGHT THING. AND THEY WISH IT HAD BEEN MORE OF A CONVERSATION BECAUSE THE POLICY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN BIDEN AND TRUMP ON COVID WERE SIGNIFICANT AND THERE WAS ONLY A TINY, TINY FRACTION, MAYBE A FEW SECONDS OF THE DEBATE. BUT AGAIN, THE ISSUE IS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT TO LOOK FORWARD, THEY DON'T WANT TO LOOK BACK. THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO NEXT YEAR, NOT WHAT YOU DID FIVE YEARS AGO AND THEY ARE NOT GETTING THAT. SO I ACCEPT YOUR CONCERN AND I JUST WANT TO REFOCUS IT ON ENSURING THAT WE STILL PRIORITIZE SCIENCE AND WE STILL PRIORITIZE EDUCATION, THAT WE STILL PRIORITIZE WHAT IS IMPORTANT, THE TRUTH. ANOTHER CALLER FROM ST. PAUL. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE AN EFFECT ON THE ENTIRE DAY WHICH MATTERS AND WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON WHAT THE TRUTH IS AND THEN PROMOTING IT. HOST: WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE LAST CALL. IDAHO, INDEPENDENT LINE. CALLER: HI, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. I THINK WHAT I'VE BEEN SEEING THROUGH ALL THIS IS SO MUCH ANGER AND IT STARTED WAY BACK WHEN TRUMP WAS ELECTED. GUEST: HOLD ON. THE ANGER ACTUALLY STARTED IN 2000 WHEN WE HAD A TIGHT ELECTION BETWEEN AL GORE AND GORGED W BUSH. FURTHER, THE ANGER STARTED WITH ROSS PEROT IN 1992, WHICH IS WHY HE GOT 19% OF THE VOTE AS AN INDEPENDENT BACK THEN. SO WE'VE BEEN A PRETTY ANGRY COUNTRY NOW FOR 30 YEARS. CALLER: OK, BUT THE THING IS, THE NEWS MEDIA HAS BEEN PUTTING A LOT OF THEIR PERSONAL FEELINGS INTO AN ELECTION THAT HAS CAUSED EVEN MORE ANGER AMONG PEOPLE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY PLACE TO GO. WE DEPEND ON THE MEDIA TO GIVE US FACTS AND THE TRUTH. AND IT HAS BEEN SHOWN ON BOTH ENDS OF THE NEWS MEDIA THE PERSONAL THINGS THAT THEY SAY TOWARD SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS. AND I THINK THAT THE NEWS MEDIA IS THE ONE THAT CONTROLS THE VOLUME OF ANGER OF PEOPLE AND OF COURSE WHEN COVID HIT, IT WAS EVEN MORE SO BECAUSE PEOPLE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PLACE TO GO. HOST: LET'S GET A RESPONSE, WE ARE RUNNING SHORT ON TIME. GUEST: THE ANSWER IS CHANGE THE CHANNEL. IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT A CORRESPONDENCE SAYING, IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THE TONE OF WHAT YOU ARE WATCHING, CHANGE THE CHANNEL. WE HAVE SOME RAIN DO SOURCES NOW. NOT JUST MSNBC AND FOX AND CNN. WE HAVE CNBC, WE HAVE THE BBC. WE HAVE MORE ABILITY, I'M TALKING ONLINE TO YOU ALL RIGHT NOW ACROSS THE COUNTRY. YOU CAN GET YOUR NEWS FROM ANY ONE OF 100 DIFFERENT SOURCES. SO IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU ARE WATCHING, YOU THINK IT IS PROBLEMATIC, CHANGE THE CHANNEL. THAT IS WHY WE ARE SO LUCKY TO LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY. I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M ABOUT TO DO THIS, BUT I'M GOING TO END ON A POSITIVE NOTE. MY STUDENTS KNOW HOW NEGATIVE I CAN GET. WE ARE SO LUCKY TO LIVE IN AMERICA AT THIS POINT WHERE THEY ARE AN INFINITE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN PLACES WHERE WE CAN GET NEWS AND INFORMATION AND WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHALLENGE IT JUST AS YOU'VE DONE OVER THE LAST HOUR. C-SPAN VIEWERS, YOU DID FANTASTIC THIS MORNING. I'M GLAD THAT YOU PARTICIPATE. YOU ALWAYS SAY THANK YOU FOR TAKING MY CALL. I THANK YOU FOR PUTTING IN THE TIME TO MAKE THAT PHONE CALL. PUTTING IN THE TIME TO MAKE THAT PHONE CALL. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING THE DEBATE. THANK YOU FOR TEACHING YOUR CHILDREN AND YOUR GRANDCHILDREN THAT DEMOCRACY IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR. THANK YOU FOR DISAGREEING RESPECTFULLY, AND THANK YOU FOR BRINGING AMERICA TO AMERICA. HOST: FRANK LUNTZ IS A POLLSTER AND COMMUNICATION STRATEGIST. FRANK, THANK YOU
