Franciscan University Presents: Personal Prayer and the Father's Love

the desire to talk to God to be in relationship with him is in every human heart but we're not always sure how to do that even the Apostles struggled with this one and they asked Jesus teach us to pray join us today as we talk about the nature of prayer how we are to pray and how we can overcome struggles in our prayer with our special guest father Boniface Hicks father Boniface is the co-author of the new book personal prayer a guide to receiving the father's love I'm father Dave Ibaka president of Franciscan University in Steubenville Ohio and you're watching Franciscan University presents stay with us [Music] [Music] welcome to Franciscan University presents I'm your host father Dave Ibaka president of Franciscan University of student Ville and we're talking today about personal prayer and the father's love I'm joined with our panelists dr. regis martin nice to have you back doctor a systematic theology professor here at Franciscan University as well as dr. Scott Hahn the father Michael Scanlon professor of biblical theology in the New Evangelization welcome back father dr. you you're not a father are you yes of six but not ordained we're really excited about welcoming our guests today father Boniface Hicks is a Benedictine a convert to both Christianity and Catholicism during his undergraduate years at Penn State University father Bennett other Boniface it's a pleasure to have you here maybe just a little word or two about yourself and what inspired you to do this book thanks it's such a joy to to be with all of you I've been really looking forward to this conversation as you mentioned I'm a convert to the faith and a Benedictine at st. Vincent arch Abbey in Latrobe I've been also doing a lot of ministry in spiritual direction including with the co-author of this book father Thomas Ackland who really formed me in spiritual direction and has been a co-author also on a previous book about spiritual direction and what we find in giving spiritual direction is that everybody needs help with prayer and so we try to bring some of the insights from working with a lot of souls about how we can really grow and the father's love through personal prayer how do two people write one book who does the typing Simon and Garfunkel well I really have to say as I read the book it's I lose track of who wrote what we we collaborated father Tom did a lot of speaking I did a lot of note-taking I transformed into text he also wrote text we melded things together we sort of created a big mass of stuff and then organized it and really massaged wonderfully or seamless of my thing you know it's really a beautiful book and and just that one of the things I appreciated just how very natural it was and and very human so I appreciated that what about just the process of writing it for you and how you pray how did how did you go about that and really seeking the Lord and being faithful to you praying as you did this I have to say that even the project itself came out of prayer I was reflecting and then came to father Tom in direction at one point and I said I think we should write a book and he said ok what about I say well actually I think we should write two books one on spiritual direction and one on prayer and this really flowed out of that process sharing that with him and then it we're oted over the course of a couple of years and we really didn't want to say anything that was just a theologian or an abstract very concept or some kind of idea that we were spinning out but really to make sure that we were actually doing these things believing in these things seeing these things in people so with that out I want to thank you for that too because it's not a theological it's very well grounded in theology I mean you're explicit and clear about Garrigan LeGrande Tanqueray Francis DeSales obviously the doctors the mystics but the the clarity of this and the practicality of it puts it in a separate class than the three ages by Garriga LeGrande and other classics and so I found this to be exciting you also do something that isn't very well known and that is prayer is not just this supernatural relationship to appa but it is something utterly natural you know you cite Tacitus who explains the greatness of the Roman Empire not in terms of the Emperor's are the armies but the temples the places of Prayer you know to pray is to be human you know to pray to ABBA is to be divinized but to not pray is personal and cultural suffocation yeah I agree that there was really beautiful just that how natural and relatable accessible it was which and it's a big book so when I first started like how are we gonna go well how about we just why do we pray why is prayer important why is it necessary why should the viewers pray well prayer is really about our relationship with God and ultimately as the foundation of our being everything is about our relationship with God but prayer makes it explicit and one of the things we wanted to bring out in the book is that prayer is not something I think we often think of it as this other activity that we have to move into this other and kind of do this thing and then we go about our normal life but really it's it's woven through our life it brings us it brings out our humanity it fulfills our humanity prayer is is relational and we have a relationship with God not just a series of rituals that we go through but prayer is really the the path to to holiness entering into a relationship with God that is that transforms our whole life that takes up our whole life and and raises it to another level like I think what Scott was dressing up needs to be revisited that prayer is perfectly human natural it's a constitutive dimension of what it means to be human to be alive to be fully aware of being and those who don't pray are sort of subhuman they're to be pitied it's a kind of aberration you're not well if you don't make the effort to touch base with God with the ground of being what I'm struck by is how you managed to pull pull it off I mean a book about prayer when your master Saint Benedict prescribes four to six hours of Prayer a day it was this sort of the natural flow from a life of prayer the obvious fruit I like to think so absolutely yeah it's certainly something that I've been investing my life in for the last 20 years and father Tom Ackland has been investing the last 40 some years of his life and really living a life of prayer and as Saint Benedict prescribes again not so certainly prescribed times of Prayer but a key verse in the rule of Saint Benedict we know that the divine presence is everywhere with us and we should be especially aware of that as we are praying the Opus Dei as we are doing the work of God and so he has a prioritizing and ordering but the time gathered in the Liturgy of the hours the time gathered in the mass is meant to overflow into the rest of the day but when he says four to six hours he's really talking about Lexi o Divina so that includes time to read to meditate to think about this and and what really impresses me about the book is not just the scholarship it's theologically sound but the warmth the passion your heart is in this book and and that's that's sort of exciting you know the relational emphasis is part of what makes it so practical and so personal but you point out something that really struck me and that is the most fundamental relationship we have as human beings is with God you know and and that is so true I mean in the sense that God created our soul out of nothing God has fashioned us as persons in His image and likeness God has made us for love and communion now obviously that's first in being although it's sometimes last in our knowing or our discovery you know but it's a it's a call and a challenge because you know if you were to kind of spy on your parents and you discover they never spoke to each other you'd get worried because that kind of conversation I mean it doesn't have to be a date you know something deliberate and it protracted but I mean the kind of conversation that flows out of a living relationship is something so fundamental and yet at the same time it's daunting because we're not God and sometimes we don't really feel close to him or that he's distant from us and you know you you cite st. Therese who sees Mary Magdalene as the model you know in her brokenness and at the same time a kind of humble boldness mm you know and it's helpful for me to recall I think it was Elizabeth of the Trinity you know the vast abyss of our own nothingness mmm that's the best place to start in prayer it's like I'm not ready to pray I'm not good at pray you know it's hard I'm distracted and yet this relationship is the source of my being it's the goal of my existence so neglecting it just because of my weakness is such a stupid thing and and he not only recognizes my weakness but he welcomes it my favorite side yeah the fact that you have nothing to offer a God perfectly qualifies you for the conversation because he wants to give you what you don't have and if you're filled with yourself he can't really reach you and I think that's one of things you did beautifully was was dealing head-on with the difficulties of they use the talked about distraction you speak about that that the distractions guy can actually speak and that guy can actually so maybe just talk a little bit about the things or the stumbling blocks that individuals who are trying to pray that everybody is going to experience how do you overcome some of that one of the central themes that we try to reiterate over and over again it's come out here a little bit already but the prayer is relational and prayer is human and sometimes we have the idea that we're supposed to shed our humanity and become like angels when we enter into prayer and be distraction-free and our emotions are supposed to be all ordered in our minds perfectly focused on God and like well really like a machine that's right like an angel or like a machine it's sort of interesting contrast but but really we bring our humanity into our prayer and as dr. Honda said the the Lord doesn't expect us to be angels He loves us in our humanity and I think the image that st. res also uses of the the little child and the way that little infants little children warm our hearts spontaneously that it's not we don't expect them to act in ordered ways like adults and compared to God the Father we're always like little children yeah yeah it doesn't disqualifies us it qualifies us and it's precisely what he wants us to bring into prayer if we're willing to really expose that to you know one of our friars that you'll know father Gustin Dunnigan told me when I was a student going to him for Spirit's direction complaining about my distractions and he said to me I have the perfect way to make sure you never get distracted in prayer again I'm gonna pay attention that's right he said stop praying and then you'll never be distracted what you're saying is that we're not doing something wrong because we're being distracted and in the Lord can actually use that that's right and and a beautiful thing is simply to show him our distractions I've had so many experiences in prayer where I suddenly realize I am like a little fidgety child looking all over the place and then I realized there he is in the Blessed Sacrament and with a kind of sheepish grin you know I just show him the poverty of my humanity and let him love me and that sort of vulnerable self-disclosure not just of my perfect thoughts in my lecture ideas and my but really of the poverty of my humanity to show him how much you don't have to spend a lot of time telling him talking about it you know endlessly I mean that must be pretty boring for God made the example that Saint John Vianney gives which you cite in your book the old wise man who tells him I look at him he looks at me and we don't talk very much but a kind of companionable silence that's that's impressive and it's in that silence ultimately we do run out of words and whether it's moving into the the dark night as those dimensions of purification come up or just experiencing the silence of God which has a way of drawing things from the depths of us or simply because our hearts are so full we can't express it in words silence comes into prayer in a number of different ways that are very important to understand you also speak of silence being uncomfortable you know that makes us nervous so maybe just speak to that that that fear that we have at times of silence why I imagine even in this setting if we were to fall into silence all of us would suddenly become uncomfortable it doesn't make for good producers would burst in you know it's funny because when we are one body radio got started I remember hearing all of the discussions about how we're going to go through the briefer we're going to go through the Scripture readings but we're also gonna have times of silence and I'm thinking dead air is the only mortal sin I thought well this is dead on arrival you know I listen to it all the time it's the only station I listen to and there's silence in the car after the readings and you're often doing those readings it's like this takes radio to a whole new level but it also reminds us that silence is sort of like God just gently approaching us and you know I also think of origin you know because I fight distraction all the time sometimes temptation and I think it was Origen who said that you know Israel was to conquer the promised land but the Canaanites the seven peoples of Canaan were it had to be conquered first and so we go through the seven deadly sins you know and how when temptations attack us or just tractions you know it's our opportunity to slave you know and to conquer and it really is a the form of holy war that reminds us that most soldiers aren't like wide awake and raring to go they're beleaguered sometimes even battered but they keep well well there's something altogether salutary about silence I think of Max Picard that wonderful book the world of silence in which he says when two people come together to speak there is a third person and his name is silence and maybe just to speak just the silence there's a difference between silence and not speaking maybe you can speak to that that that yeah well silence can have very much a fullness to it a live air instead of a dead air as it were and it's different than simply not making any noise and they go hand in hand it's we have to stop speaking and in order to enter into silence but then silence can be a really rich environment I heard a nice image for silence that it's like the hot water to a tea bag it has a way of drawing out from within us the various flavors of our of our hearts and often exposing things that we like and that we don't like and that makes this part of the the discomfort that can come also from silence and I think we live in a world that is so busy and so much noise that seem so he takes practice to get there right to be able to be silent takes practice yeah the more that we practice in prayer and have extended times of births one of the things we emphasize in the book and it's so necessary you you don't develop a prayer life by having just a minute here in a minute there we need an extended period of time to allow those things to develop in the heart amen amen and we've talked much about prayer and there's more to speak about so join us and Franciscan University presents continues [Music] the way that I like to approach prayer is like a sewing pattern so the church has given us lots of different ways to pray the rosary lexy o Divina the mass personal prayer journaling all these things are very good things but if we're doing the same thing every day I know that I get kind of bored and might not be really finding the fruits that God wants me to find so I think it's very important that we follow the Holy Spirit's direction and using all these different things that we've been given but we can make like a different dress or different clothes each day and the way that he's been inspiring us to use these patterns the church has given us what if you discovered a university with unmatched science faculty and programs a place where you didn't have to choose science over faith at Franciscan University of Steubenville you'll find faith inspired student focused research driven programs leading to satisfying careers in medicine scientific research engineering computer science and many more science in health fields at Franciscan University of Steubenville education is more than just a word it's a discovery [Music] and welcome back to Franciscan University presents we're talking about personal prayer and the Father's love for the Boniface again just a blessing to have you with us you mentioned in the last segment about being vulnerable to the Lord and again we've been spirits the direction that's a word that a lot of people struggle with what what is that actually concretely what does that look like to be vulnerable to God well to speak about vulnerability in the context of relationship first of all it's necessary for relationships it's one of the things we try to draw it again and again in the book is when we talk about our relationship with God it's not a whole different category it's like human relationships and what kind of human relationship what kind of depth is there what kind of intimacy is there in human relationships without vulnerability vulnerability really opens up the most beautiful dimensions of human relationships and so naturally we want to bring that into the context of our relationship with God as well to really open our hearts our temptation is to kind of like we do when we're receiving guests into the house take all of the mess and pile it up in one room and not let it be seen by the guests who are there and we can really do that with God hiding all of these aspects of ourselves that were uncomfortable about that we're embarrassed about that we don't think are worthy of him and he really wants everything and he wants us to open our hearts to him and so it really means that everything can be brought into our lives of Prayer which ultimately becomes such a relief as we show him the good the bad and the ugly and we receive only one response which is always his love isn't it ironic that while we're expected to be vulnerable before God he is infinitely more vulnerable before man I mean we can spit in as a high and he doesn't go away he tries to devise ever more ingenious strategies to win his back he's gone all the way to the cross how vulnerable can that be and really Jesus shows us that divinity is infinite vulnerability and so insofar as we are made in the image of God it is to become more and more open self emptied exposed and given you know one of the first things I read when I you really converted Bo as a teenager was my heart Christ's home by Robert Munger and I think it's probably sold tens of millions it's done a lot of good and it really is a kind of invitation to not only enter into the dialogue of Prayer but to allow Christ to enter into your heart and to see your your home you know and so there is this initial conversation and then basically he shows you around or you show him around all of the rooms of your house you know and and finally you know he pointed the closet well no we're not gonna go over you know any and he's patient he's not going to just say well I am you know and and that that discovery that he really wants every area of our lives especially the messes you know and he's not there to could judge us and when you think about the heart as Christ's home you know I'm also reminded of what Christ said about the temple and how it's my father's house but it's not just my father's house as opposed to yours know pilgrims come precisely discover who they are as sons and daughters and as you see the three stages of the temple the outer court the holy place and the Holy of Holies you're like oh you're supposed to quake well actually you're supposed to enter and enter into this conversation and you know it's like vocal prayer and then meditation and then contemplation the whole point of the temple is the temple of the template you know to contemplate to see that he's drawing us in closer and closer I mean when I discovered the mystics and Bonaventure and all these guys just assumed that people knew that the temple is central to Israel because it's the model for prayer it's like well duh yeah I think just to go back to the idea of centrality of it and maybe we jumped past this point but the tagline of your book is a guide to receiving the Father's love all of the stuff that we've been talking about vulnerability silence intimacy if we don't believe in that in granted there's there's a relationship in that but if we don't understand that or believe that everything you've said is makes it infinitely more difficult this right that it all has to come to this encounter with the father's love that's right yeah that's what we're becoming vulnerable to and and that's why it has to be a growing trust as we trust that he really loves us that he loves us unconditionally and infinitely and he of course has taken the initiative in sending his son who empties out everything on the cross who becomes vulnerable first he becomes totally accessible to us to invite us into that intimate relationship with him that gives us the chance to open up the interior and to learn how to well the way to the Father is not a roundabout way it's not circuitous it cuts right through the son who comes to us to show us his father our Father I mean why else does the invent the our Father that prayer and and isn't that a stunning irony these guys don't know how to pray so they ask him the expert teach us how is it done what's what's the art the method here you know this idea of fatherhood I mean for Jesus to teach fishermen and tax collectors to address the God of Israel as Abba Father our Father who art in heaven I mean the high priest in the temple didn't even address God that way you know he addressed him as Yahweh Elohim Lord God I mean I think the term Lord and Hebrew occurs in the Hebrew Bible over 7,000 times but father occurs 17 times and yet in the Sermon on the Mount where the Lord's Prayer is taught he calls god father 17 times in one sermon and he's just getting started but you point on the flip side to go back to vulnerability that a lot of people just sort of consigned God as father to the realm of the other people who have a good relationship with their father I think you mentioned an experience of a young lady in a festival of praise who suddenly gets this opening this grace we're suddenly after a horrible relationship with her father she realizes that isn't what father means you know and I just think that's where vulnerability really comes into play for many people you know like God I don't have a father that makes me feel safe with you if you're my father so make up for what I lack you give me what I need and I mean it isn't like Jesus saying well to go check with him first you know if you've seen me you've seen the father it isn't like the father sent the son to do all of the dirty work because he didn't want to do it you know if you've seen him on the cross you've seen the father's love well father you have a lovely image in your book about God leaving his fingerprints upon creation and then of course he enters creation you can't get much closer than that but I like that image of a fingerprints because it suggests that he doesn't stand at a distance he doesn't keep us at bay he's not fastidious he's immersed in the muck and the mire he couldn't get any closer than that he's not afraid to get his hands dirty that's right and very much a part of his vulnerability it's leaving his mark he's allowing himself to become accessible through his creation he's constantly pressing into it it's such a wonderful remedy it's really an image from the from the Fathers of the Church that's a wonderful remedy to some of the the modern deistic tendencies to think that God did some things spun some things off and sent it away from himself his fingers are really in everything and those fingers touch lepers I mean that's what's so astounding to know he comes that close that he's prepared and even to embrace this leprous other it's also a good Franciscan theme I might add well you speaking I think beautifully and it's one things I appreciate that prayer is a relationship it's a life it's not just but a prayer time is needs to be a part of the Christians life so maybe a word or two about that how does notice want to establish that how do you go about having a prayer time what does that look like especially for a busy person our life is a little bit different but what does that look like for somebody who is not in a monastery or friary well I think for for everybody certainly we have various forms of Prayer one of which is the mass Sunday Mass is prescribed for everybody in normal times and it's something that becomes a kind of cornerstone people are able to extend that into a daily Mass but what we talk about especially is also personal prayer time just one-on-one alone and think of the adoration Chapel is a kind of ideal and then taking steps away from that to make it possible to universalize it's a nice Byzantine tradition to have a prayer corner in your house an icon and a candle a quiet place can be a beautiful way of entering into a time of personal prayer which as I mentioned a little earlier needs to be more than a couple of minutes it's great to play pray for a couple of minutes it's great to pray while we're walking while we're driving while we're doing other things but we also need a dedicated period of time I always encourage people at least 15 minutes father Tom is more unbending he says for everybody an hour every day in an hour every day I say father Tom you know married people children he says an hour every day everybody can do it will you find an hour for everything else yeah we can set aside that time for God it's something that you can build up to you know that if your goal is an hour every day that doesn't mean it's hour nothing you know I also think of the Han household I mean that will never be described by our neighbors as a monastery more like a factory you know but in the midst of the pandemic you know our family had two of our sons come back from the seminary and they kind of taught us to pray in a whole new way you know so that for the first time with this imposed Jubilee or sabbatical upon the whole civil the whole world practically we're still busy you know but at the same time I have discovered that we have set times for prayer to pray the Divine Office as a family which we never did before and you know and so the bell rings and we all gather it might take five or ten minutes to end the tasks but I mean it really is a way to kind of not only punctuate the day but give structure to life and to recognize you know that the family is a domestic church it's always going to be a struggle because everybody's doing their own thing and going their own way and that kind of thing but there is a sense also in which the the abbey with the abbot as a abba father is also a family and a model for us to learn from and I I've spent many many years out there at Latrobe and st. Vincent's and I I was always feeling like an observer to the the bravery as that you all prayed it but it is such a talk about silence and peace and beauty holding well what are the other great and somewhat recent innovations of our prayer companions of books like magnificat which comes out every month as a kind of scaled-down breather in our breviary for busy people living in the domestic and beyond and yet they can draw upon these riches there's a tension here I think on the one hand you've got to have a structure you need to sequester yourself you need time away from the mob so that you can get recollected and speak directly intimately to God but on the other hand it needs to become so habitual that you're almost unaware of your prayer life but that was st. Anthony of Padua advise you you pray best when you're at least aware of praying that I mean it reminds me of Hopkins of that beautiful poem when the Blessed Mother can the Blessed Mother compared to the air we breathe I suspect that was Mary's prayer I mean she wasn't really self-consciously acutely aware every minute of her prayer time her whole life was at prayer it was a kind of atmosphere through which she lived and moved and breathed way that I think is the model mmm if I can just draw two things that you said first of all with Magnificat and some of these prayer companions and then my encouragement would just be the kind of Alexia Divina approach we take a section of the book to talk about Lexi o Divina but the basic structure is some reading and then thinking about it and then addressing something to God and then entering into some silence so just to stretch out sometimes we can turn these prayer companions into an intellectual exercise or just working our way through it from beginning to end and that's not even the worst thing but but to stretch that out and that Lexi o style and then to talk about allowing these things to pour out into the the rest of our lives again I would make the relational analogy I think that relationship analogy can be used again and again to understand how prayer works to married men here with me who would not have a marriage if you didn't spend time with your wives and and dedicated time but then there's a way that you know when your wife is in the house and there's an awareness of her presence there's an awareness of that ongoing love relationship or if there's some rupture there are some tension you carry that with you into the activities of the day right we do that with relationships we need to come together to reconcile to work things through and then we live in the relationship in an ongoing way amen we'll be right back with more Franciscan University presents please stay with us [Music] I think my prayer life in the morning has definitely helped out a lot it's a great way to wake up start my day hey yeah it's a great day to be alive thank you God for another day of life go throughout my day and whatever I face I face and then the evening I just kind of I recollect what has happened throughout my day I thank God for it whether good or bad and just say you know thank you God I trust that this is your will and help me get a restful sleep and wake up and start a new day tomorrow there is a place where education begins and faith and reason connect Franciscan University of student bills online programs will advance your career through an e-learning experience that's both academically excellent and passionately Catholic with online degrees taught by full-time professors in theology catechetical business education and other disciplines you can earn your master's degree online without changing your lifestyle find out more today at Franciscan ddu where your faith and career can connect online [Music] welcome back and thanks for joining us you're watching Franciscan University presents and we're coming to you from the Communication Arts studio here in the campus of Franciscan University of student bill our students are operating the cameras and equipment and the members of our theology faculty dr. Martin and dr. Hahn are guiding our discussion in personal prayer and the father's love with our guest Benedict and father Boniface Hicks it's great blessing to be able to be together but one of those statements was made earlier just about Scott how you were saying your family's prayed a little bit different as that pandemic was going on and and I had people reach out to me saying that that was actually a beautiful time of prayer for them which is I think part of the grace of the Holy Spirit so maybe just speak to that on how that the isolation experience drew people together drew them closer to the Lord cause them invited them to pray differently well it certainly has been a whole variety of experiences from talking to different people but some very positive ones and as dr. Hahn mentioned though we can't though people at home can't participate in the Liturgy of the Eucharist in the context of the church building there's an opportunity to celebrate the Liturgy of the hours it really is liturgical prayer something that the monks do seven times a day and the rule of Saint Benedict but that can also be done at home in the domestic church and it's really one of the fruits of the Second Vatican Council to translate all of that into the vernacular that each language group in their own language and understandable ways can pray the Liturgy of the church and it's a real joining together with the mystical body of Christ and and I think there's a real opportunity to sanctify the home as dr. Hahn mentioned the the temple the temple of our bodies but the temple of our families and the temple of our homes all of that can be really filled with the presence of God the the Rosary is indulgence especially when it's prayed out loud together and I think maybe a renewal of the family rosary these kinds of things take place Holy Father just recently asked us to look at that again just on that I think you made a beautiful several beautiful points about the nature of prayer and communion and coming together and I think that is in fact one of the things that people have found difficult in this this desire to do this prayer together and how important that is for us yeah there's a certainly something very beautiful about personal prayer but as we bring out in the book also the the times of coming together with the whole church in the liturgy together in the rosary and taking times to pray together and it's a it's in its own interesting dynamic as we're saying words on the outside we're following along with the Hail Marys of the the Rosary for example or the words of the liturgy of the hours and there's a variety of experiences of kind of falling asleep and all of the human elements that we were talking about before that we don't need to be afraid of or try to cover up but then it can really make space for a beautiful inner prayer that the heart of it again is that vulnerability whether it's through the Liturgy of the hours of the Rosary out loud or just in our hearts the thing is to really expose our hearts and that vulnerability to the Lord well in some ways it's a perfectly natural and and obvious transition or segue from pandemic to home because the home the family that's the domestic church and in a sense the formal of expression of our faith the public worship Opus Dei Mass Eucharist all of that has been suspended and we have to admit that's an impoverishment that's really unnatural it's got to get restored at some point but we've compensated we've been forced I think to be imaginative innovative and families coming together to pray I think is a kind of grace that some of us really treasure and maybe we're gonna miss it when we go back to a more normal life you know this transformation has occurred in a way that was sort of unexpected I mean when we heard that our sons were going to come back and finish their semester at home online you know their seminary courses and all of that I realized you know that the family rosary that I always insisted upon and always led and we would share you know it worked and I still pray and they do too but what we did was just to kind of adapt you know one size doesn't fit all and I'm not in any way calling into question the power importance of the rosary especially the family rosary but I know that my sons came back hoping for greater flexibility and and I had to give it to them and I said you know for now this is a frat rayar key brothers are going to rule you've come of age you know and so they've been able to choose all kinds of things that have brought about a kind of it's not just a cafeteria it really is a banquet feast and to watch them pray in a holy hour you know I our Eucharistic Chapel is closed and so I come up on campus to Christ the King Chapel and you know we've been here for thirty years and it's just such a powerful connection and then we gather again for the time of prayer as a family I I do we use a lot of holy water now we've also been doing blessed salt and this sort of thing you know I say anything right now and at the end of it all I I have all the holy water and a baby bottle and I just spray the family members and pronounce the blessing and all of that but in in in 40 years of marriage and in 37 years of parenting we've backed ourselves into the most strangely blessed time as a household that I would not have wished upon my enemies you know if one last thing to I wanted to mention was the this this series called the chosen with Jonathan Rumia devout Catholic oh he's become a friend we watched all eight episodes during Holy Week livestream for free and our kids don't necessarily care for Christian movies but they were smitten by the chosen and it you know as one of our sons said it just makes you long to have a friendship with Jesus it's spellbinding isn't it my wife and I discovered it this past week it's extraordinary absolutely riveting they did appear this time series father one of the things that I appreciated and actually was kind of surprised about you speak about vulnerability and contemplation and meditation and intimacy and beautiful and then you begin to speak about charismatic prayer and some people would say oh those two things don't go together and yet I think you do a beautiful job I rejoiced when I read this chapter that those two things actually do go together so maybe you could just speak a little bit about that just to give a sense of the whole structure of the book we we situated the first several chapter to talk about those qualities of Prayer experiences of Prayer and under the heading of human and relational and those different dynamics and then the second half of the book is trying to apply that to different experience of prayer from liturgical prayer to the devotional prayer the rosary the Jesus Prayer and then wanted to include it a chapter on charismatic prayer because it really does capture those dimensions what's more vulnerable than a zhing your hands and crying out from your heart or or making noises in the and the prayer of tongues and being open to prophecy images and the things that can fill the heart and I think that there is a natural blending together another big theme for the book was about contemplative prayer that it's a prayer that goes beyond words obviously it builds on words but it goes beyond words to a sense of God's presence a loving awareness of God's presence and that's been my experience of charismatic prayer as well that it builds on words spoken spontaneously and then we sort of run out of words but we still are praying together or praying out loud and then the the prayer of tongue starts to emerge that's not stuck in ideas and and concepts and images but can really relate with God and I just love in Romans 8 where it says we don't know how to pray as we should we don't know how to pray in the spirit pray sir and you're right that my experience was a tremendous vulnerability in really surrendering myself to the charisms and the gifts the Holy Spirit and and and that speaks to so much of what you'd said about that about him the vulnerability before God and and in prayer meetings I really find that the model of Lexi o Divina an ancient model of monastic prayer we could say really get sprayed out at large as we have some the text of a song often Scripture and then it's meditated on in spontaneous prayer by those who are present and that moves into an addressing of God and lot CO and then often moves into even silence but an ecstatic prayer a prayer that goes beyond words and images and then that's often where the the spirit also falls and maybe a word of prophecy and image emerges and so I think that what's develop very spontaneously and has been a very rich source of renewal in the Catholic Church fits right into some of those traditional forms of prayer you know this is an area where I think partisan spirits have entered you know to polarize the church you know are you traditional are you charismatic and the answer is clearly see both a and B you know are you traditional are you liturgical in Sacramento or is it personal you know it's not you know a choice between the personal and the corporate between the you know the the contemplative and the liturgical the the the the thing that I enjoy perhaps the most about this book is you you lay a cornerstone with what gehrig you and others have said and that is the graces of contemplation are meant for all the faithful what you mean busy laypeople married folks with you know little kids and all yes you know not instantly not easily but gradually but truly and fully and to me you know it's it's sort of why as Catholics were called to be radically charismatic and traditional or trad is Matic as we say in our home and trying to coast on it's like there is no need to politicize or polarize we're family and we have different experiences and different personalities and that sort of thing but but to me it isn't just about a kind of day tante to bring about ecclesiastical peace for now it really is internalizing all of the graces whatever form they take and to be open it isn't like I have to be everything but I have to be open to everything God as a father has for his sons and daughters and that's one of my favorite parts of the book let me make up an admission full disclosure wise it should be great I'm not charismatic I mean that's not a guarded secret I haven't received the gift of tongues it's not a skill I've ever perfected but I think the most deeply charismatic aspect of Prayer is the cry of the heart I mean Giussani migrated meant says that the chief protagonist of history is the Baker whose arms are outstretched asking God help me give me this give me that I mean that's why the central prayer of the gospel is the our Father a prayer of petition Bartimaeus is my model the guy's blind he's crying out repeatedly to Jesus have mercy on me and Jesus asks him what do you want what can I do for you I want to see I think that's every man's prayer but in that that's so vulnerable I love reflecting on that and maybe taste go down that for saying that the I want to see is a vulnerable stance before the Lord because you put it out there and knowing not knowing what's gonna I want to see and that's what prayer is right it's just putting it out there making yourself seen known I think even to take a step back from that the question of Jesus solicits that vulnerabilities aren't very good he could have just presumed you want to see let me heal you but he says what do you want and I imagine a very pregnant silence as this hope what do you think you're feeling expressed dear I even say it right right finally emerges I want to see what a beautiful expression you know I think of that as a dual expression because it's obviously coming from a beggar who's blind but it's also coming from a bigger whose being transformed into a child you know the most irresistible thing I have experienced as a father is when my children are needy and they beg no it isn't like well you've got it in there it's like his I come rushing my heart leaps out you know and I think you know this too connected to the the charismatic prayer chapter you know people who have the experience of tongues you know can easily conclude well that's just childish babble but I think father would say well you're a child so be proud don't be too proud that's absolutely right my experiences often times is we are not comfortable being born about we're not comfortable in that step and it is a place where the Lord wants us maybe very quickly father because we're running out of time listening and reading it's it seems like a danger is to say that there is a cookie cutter this how you pray but my own life watching actually my parents is there now getting older aren't there seasons of prayer and that changes and that's that's good and that's human so maybe just speak to that when again if I can make that relational analogy could we have a cookie cutter relationship could we ever say have an algorithm for relationships that we play out step by step and aren't there seasons of relationships in life and so I would say in that sense obviously of course there are as we grow and as we come to know the Lord more as we relate to him in different ways through our own experience and the development of our humanity yeah beautiful different seasons yeah I think of my mom and dad who it may be much like your house when there were six kids running around crazy their prayer looks different than it does now but prayer was always a part of it I remember growing up seeing seeing and this is I think important seeing mom and dad pray not just hearing that they prayed but there was something is a 14 year old kid who saw a mom and dad who prayed that it's very real great well that really impressed Carol Ottawa as a yes like watching his father late at night fall to his knees up next our panel and our guest will share their final thoughts on prayer stay with us [Music] when I started to dive deeper into prayer when I was about in high school I wanted something to help me to guide my thoughts in prayer so I turned to this little meditation book called Jesus calling and it has daily meditations and the meditations will say stuff like be not afraid the Lord is guiding your life your life is in his hands and that would just guide the rest of my prayer time and help me to focus on the Lord's word I was introduced to the Rosary at age 11 I was at Vacation Bible School and it was the last day and one of the teachers gave a talk on the rosary and the power of the Rosary and she encouraged each one of us kids to pray it daily and I took that to heart and I thought wow that's something I can do and so I did and what began to happen in my heart was as I was reflecting on the mysteries of Jesus his birth death resurrection I began to fall in love with him [Music] welcome back to Franciscan University presents we've come to our final segment so Regis if you could give us your father but it's a beautiful book I don't know if you mention this I mean you touch on everything else so why not but hands down the most astounding statement I've ever come across on the subject of Prayer especially the power of prayer is the prediction that Saint Alphonsus Liguori made its its canonized now codified in the church's catechism and that is if you pray you are most certainly saved if you don't pray you are most certainly damned and the adverbs I I think are really crucial there's a level of certainty here that's almost apodictic you can take this to the bank if you don't pray you're gonna go to hell but if you do you're gonna go to heaven that that's a saving grace I think and and the other comment I'd make you don't touch on this but for me the most celebrated encounter with Jesus outside of Scripture would be that evening in November in 1654 I think when Pascal at the end of his rope is is somehow met by Jesus in prayer for so long he had been looking for God and had nearly given up and suddenly Jesus appears to him and and says Pascal be at peace you would not be looking for me if you had not already found me don't despair I have shed such drops of blood for you could you maybe shed a few tears for me I thought of you in my agony I have loved you more ardently than you have loved even your sins I like that because Pascal was a pretty ordinary guy he was a layman he wasn't a mystic he wasn't a friar or a monk he was a genius but he was a layman and that I I think that really resonates with me that's beautiful that's beautiful thank you Scott you know I'm thinking of your emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit because that's what prayer is it's the work of the Holy Spirit and so our openness and our vulnerability to God is really an openness to receiving the Holy Spirit the artisan of vulnerability I think you say I also reminded of what people would hear when they asked the late great Pope Saint John Paul the second how do you pray because his response was almost always as the spirit leads you know and in romans 8 which we've referenced you know we don't know how to pray as we are especially in agony you know we groan and travail but then with sighs and moans too deep for words the spirit intercedes for us and it seems to me that's the threat that makes all of these pearls into a necklace that whether you're young or old or in-between it's the openness to the Holy Spirit that will take whatever prayers the devotional prayers you know the personal prayer meditation contemplation charismatic prayer and make it transformative and we don't have to kind of predict or predetermine what it will be in fact we have to be careful not to do that you know and I think also the other thing that we've referenced a bit and that is relationships so I'm thinking of Kimberly you know we've been married for 40 years I we feel like Israel coming out of the wilderness after that period then having the friendship the the the laughter the playfulness the prayer and all of these things I didn't know couples could have as friends but man did we have to learn from making millions of mistakes you know apologizing forgiving you know God doesn't make mistakes but we sure think he does yep and so I think that kind of vulnerability has to be what the Holy Spirit beckons from us so that we really can do it individually as well as in our marriages and that sort of thing but all along I think what we find is that God wants so much more for us than what we're willing to settle for him that's beautiful a fella behind fits again thank you so much maybe rather than just a final thought I was thinking given the topic what if you led us in prayer let us now and our community is gathered watching us maybe you could just lead us in prayer I'd love to do that it's one of the things we say at the beginning of the book the most important that way to learn to pray by praying and so to conclude our talking about prayer by calling on the Holy Spirit to come and lead us and recognizing that already our desire for God and so allowing that desire to well up in our hearts now as we just open our hearts to the Lord and just invite all of our our viewers to open their hearts to the Lord discover that desire which is greater than the desire for even for water for food for life is a desire for the fullness of life and love that we have in God allow that desire to begin welling up that's the Holy Spirit already at work in our hearts as the Lord draws us into relationship and I just didn't like to do a little guided lexie Oh Divina we referenced that passage of the blind beggar and imagine yourself as a blind beggar there on the side of the road and hearing the commotion so many things happening being aware of your own poverty what's your need in this moment what's the cry of your heart what do you want more than anything else allow that to start rising up in your heart as you hear this movement and someone says it's Jesus Jesus is passing by Jesus is coming I allow that movement in your heart to rise up and cry out cry out to him cry out from the depths Jesus son of David have pity on me allow that cry to come up and imagine the commotion stopping someone pushing you away but you cry all the louder Jesus son of David have pity on me and then suddenly you hear everything quiet and Jesus comes closer you sense a presence of warmth you can't see him and your blindness you can't see him but he scents him coming closer so filled with warmth presence listening to you he's really listening to you attentive to you he sees you he draws close to you smell him feel the presence the warmth of his presence and then his words to you what do you want me to do for you what do you want me to do for you I'll have that question just to settle into your heart what do you want me to do for you what do you want me to do for you Jesus is attentive he's waiting for your answer what do you want me to do for you allow that response to come up from your heart maybe in our own version we can all give the response of the beggar I want to see I want to see I want to see and allow Jesus just to touch you as you open your eyes and you behold the face of God and we can just rest in that presence for a moment behold the face of God a face that is filled with love eyes that look only with love into yours and that presence that vision is something we can carry into the rest of our days it's grace to lead you in prayer and I hope that that grace of contemplation a loving awareness of God's presence in our humanity and our need in our poverty is something that can stay with all our viewers amen thank you so much father I love the topic of Prayer in many ways for me I would if re nail it what's the central part it's just being available from prayer it's Jesus I'm making myself available so we encourage you to do that as well we're very blessed that father is allowed part of the his book which will be available to you if you want to learn more about the topic we have a free handout from father Boniface this book this is yours free if you simply go online to faith and reason com or by calling the number you'll see at the screen in just a moment again we just want to thank you for joining us today in the blessing that it has been asking God's grace in his Holy Spirit to continue to draw us closer to the Lord in prayer to encounter the love of a father may the Lord bless you the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit amen you download the free handout on today's topic go to faith and reason com email your request for the handout to presents at Franciscan GDU at faith in reason com you can also purchase past episodes of Franciscan University presents or request today's free hand out and purchase past programs by calling eight eight three three three zero three eight one that's eight eight eight three three three zero three eight one or call seven four zero two eight three six three five seven [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Channel: Franciscan University of Steubenville

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Keywords: Franciscan University, Steubenville, Ohio, Catholic, college, Franciscan University of Steubenville, Franciscan University of Steubenville (College / University), Franciscan University Presents, EWTN, Presents, Fr. Dave Pivonka TOR, Dr. Regis Martin, Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Boniface Hicks OSB, prayer, personal prayer, Personal Prayer: A Guide for Receiving the Father's Love, St. Vincent Archabbey, spiritual direction

Id: 3VwhEYeM5Vg

Length: 58min 30sec (3510 seconds)

Published: Fri Aug 07 2020