Franciscan University Presents: Holiness and Prayer

st. john paul ii once said that all Christians are called to make their life into a masterpiece a great work of art what does that mean and how does prayer help us answer that call join us today as we explore the call to holiness and the role of prayer and our daily lives with Matt Leonard author of prayer works getting a grip on Catholic spirituality I'm Michael Hernon vice president of advancement at Franciscan University in Steubenville Ohio and you're watching Franciscan University presents stay with us [Music] welcome to Franciscan University presents today we'll be talking about prayer and the life of holiness your host Michael Hernon vice-president of advancement here at Franciscan University I'm joined here in our studios by our regular panelist dr. regis martin professor of systematic theology here at Franciscan University dr. Scott Hahn the who holds the father Michael Scanlon chair and biblical theology in the New Evangelization and our special guests Matt Leonard mats the executive director of the st. Paul Center your speaker and author and you do so much you're a convert to Catholicism and you're a former missionary to Latin America you have your MA and theology here from Franciscan University and which we're very proud of and doing great work out there you're no stranger to radio and TV especially to EWTN and you're the host of journey through scripture video series which is which is fabulous and you're an author of two different books the art of living as a Catholic louder than words and the most recent prayer works getting a grip on Catholic spirituality it is great to have you here on the program you have five children and live here in Steubenville Ohio so welcome to the program thank you very much for having me like yeah so we're talking about holiness in the lives of Catholics as well as a life of prayer so let's start with some of the basics what is holiness how would we define holiness I guess we'd start with the fact that scripture tells us that God alone is holy so any growth in holiness that we have or is really as a result of how closely attached we are to Jesus Christ and holiness looks different in different people as well so you know look at Scott and Regis they they look different both of them were seeking holiness right this is very close but it looks different in different people but really it boils down to how close are you living to Jesus Christ because he's the fount of holiness so is that what the church says I mean what does the church call holiness is there a definition or a description that you you kind of a go to description below I guess technically speaking you'd say that how closely do we conform our own wills to Jesus Christ okay but again it it manifests itself in different ways I think in different people because we have our own individual characteristics okay but it all stems from Jesus Christ you know a century ago a famous book was written by a German theologian rudolf otto the idea of the holy and his approach to holiness was more experiential or phenomenological he he tried to explain it in terms of the mysterium tremendum that sense of awe that we have in the presence of the transcendent the problem with that definition of holy however is that it doesn't apply to God and since God is holy and the third person of the Trinity is the Holy Spirit we have to understand that it's not simply our response to the presence of God it's our participation in the very life of God and I think that's what Matt's work is pointing us to is the recognition that it's one thing to recognize the creator and our own finitude as creatures it's another thing to recognize that he is beckoning us to enter into a life that is honor is not ours by nature but only his naturally and and that is holiness it's it's not just rectitude it's not just virtue it's more than the natural law it is entering into a love that really is godlike and and that's why there's no way you can ever claim to cross the finish line before death yeah but I I think it's it's very useful to try and identify the phenomenon and I think rudolf otto is extremely helpful the encounter with the other with the holy other awakens a sense of fear not just a fear that has a transitive object but fear without object which is dread it instantly of transfixes one and this sacredly terrifying reality fills us with a trembling of and you're tempted to become frustrated to fall down and worship this other because it is so tremendous so transcendent so fearful but at the same time you're fascinated you're enraptured by this it awakens a response of love but the disparity between you and this this beloved being is so great so in commensurate that you wonder how do I approach this God how do I come close without being consumed somehow devoured by this blazing Inferno of God's presence and and that's where Catholic Christianity I think it is so indispensable because she provides mediation you know sacramental stuff which somehow sanctifies us all this grit things bread water wine gesture words of color these things draw us of and domesticate of the relationship in a way that makes God approachable for the first time you know as a Protestant I used to kind of sit in church services and wonder what is this holiness what what is what am I doing here because it was kind of in the air in a sense but I couldn't grasp it and and I love your point read just because the smells and the bells and the grittiness of the Catholic Church is something that I really gravitated toward as I was coming into Mother Church because there were real avenues of grace that I could grasp a hold of and participate in and thus know that I was growing in the life of holiness and that that changes everything yeah it's it's I mean God's divine condescension which is something none of us could anticipate and and once it happens none none of us deserves and yet he breaks himself to become stuff food bread he becomes a meal that that we are invited to eat and and all at once the barriers fall away what would ordinarily be this impediment that you you dare not even approach must much less transcend becomes a welcome mat a door that he opens and he beckons you to come inside that's the summons I think to sanctity that's what holiness consists of you are drawn into this circle of love man that's powerful you know when you describe it in those terms I'm reminded of what I felt when I was a Calvinist you know when I was a reformed evangelical because where we both come from you know the accent mark is shifted over to what Rudolf Otto describes that that that that sense of mystery that we you tremble and yet you're fascinated by it but most especially you want straight Roussell right a forage you know and the sovereign majesty of a God who is so holy that you dare not approach him so I mean that is what you accentuate in that Calvinist tradition and in a certain way it's a great place to start you know because you know if you start on the other side where you know Jesus is my buddy and POW you know you really have a difficult time recovering the fear of the Lord which is the beginning of true wisdom but when you start with the fear that is proper to us as creatures and especially as sinners then suddenly we allow ourselves to be even more dramatically shocked and fascinated by grace and mercy the fact that this all holy God who is so awesome and so distant and so terrifying would stoop down to us as you were saying and condescension yeah no matter how low he has to go he'll find us and no matter how low he has to work he'll use bread and wine and water and oil and it's like whoa you know that's something you realize that holiness is being harnessed in a way that would would exceed your capacity to ask for mercy you know he is bestowing a mercy that exceeds anything we would dare to ask of it and so we have a an encounter a lead part space in the life of God as holiness helped me bring this into the everyday world you alluded to earlier that the holiness has different looks bearded unbe R did I guess but but you know a lot of people they look at a holy card and they'll see the gold you know trim around it and they'll see the perfect image is that what holiness is well you know it's funny because in a sense that's the goal right I mean wouldn't you like to see Scott's face and reuse his face and yours on a holy card and it's not personal but that's the goal right as ludicrous as it sounds that's the goal every one of us is called to be Saints yes and we all have different vocations in life and different situations that we deal with on a daily basis and every one of those is an opportunity to grow in holiness and and I think all too often we think of nuns and monks and priests as those are the people who are called to grow in holiness but in reality every one of us is and me they have a different path to holiness than we do but my wife for example marriage I mean all of us are married we have a lot of kids we all know that that's a path to holiness I provide opportunities for growth and my wife's holiness every day right exactly so anything in this life is is it is an opportunity for us to grow in holiness but unpack that a little bit more for me so so we always hear about the holiness in our everyday lives what does that really look like so we're talking about participating in the life of God I see that the monks praying or sisters in a convent I see holiness there help me picture holiness in the everyday well okay start with a crucifix so it's self death right and it's self gift and so any person that I interact with is an opportunity for me to die to myself and when I do that so say I'm in traffic and I have an opportunity to cut somebody off and get my place in line and instead I let them go on and I move in behind even though I'm running late for something that's death to self I'm offering myself up for that person in a really banal way in a sense but it's a growth in holiness because I'm putting them first that's what it's about one reminder I think would be appropriate though because know the holy is not merely the humanitarian right so what is it that enables our little deeds done with lots of love to really be holy it's baptism you know it's the fact that we have been inserted into the life of God and and because of that we have become Saints and we're called to perfect that and that's precisely what it is that enables us to transform the ordinary into the extraordinary but I think we've got to be careful again to kind of strike that balance because you know the priest who is received Holy Orders you know is the one who is the ordinary minister of baptism and so Jesus our high priest gives us the Holy Spirit through these holy means through those who have Holy Orders through the holy sacraments and in this extraordinary grace is precisely what then endow is the ordinary mundane um drum were the capacity that it would not otherwise possess apart from God stooping down and dowing us with this means but then pick up right where you are you can't emphasize enough I think the importance of baptism because that's in scible that's foundational the scene a quinone without it you can't sustain a life of Grace and it's not just an insertion into his life but into his death right I mean the whole Paschal mystery is descent we are inserted into that which is what enables us to die to self as you put it and then to make a gift of self to another person right it's not just about goodness and being good to your point you know the young ruler approaches Jesus and Luke and says good teacher and Jesus says well you know only God is good we can only be good enough so to speak through Jesus Christ and obviously that happens through the sacraments beginning with baptism and that's how we're joined to his life yeah so everyday activities through our baptism through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit through the presence of grace can be transformed so even the doing of the laundry that taking care of the kids the letting someone cut you off in traffic or what catholics have called for centuries the sacrament of the present moment right you take this moment and and you somehow charge it with grace which is there waiting to be applied to whatever you're doing and and this outward doing is somehow inwardly informed by this movement of the Spirit this this secret from God who fills you with his life is love and that's what empowers you to be another Christ you know as theologians we're always making distinctions and I think it's appropriate here to also make another distinction and that is a distinction between justice on the one hand and sanctity on the other righteousness and holiness are often confused and yet we distinguish them and we need to but in order to show how inseparable they are righteousness is rooted in the law where we have Commandments to be kept and the fear of the Lord is the beginning of that but the law is order to the liturgy righteousness is ordered to holiness the liturgy not just the king but the priests not just the palace but the temple this is the end this is the goal and I think when we recognize that keeping Commandments is not an end in itself but a means to an end and achieving communion with God again extending that communion through a self offering to other people you know I think that is the mystery that clearly distinguishes holiness from righteousness and yet shows how inseparably connected they are yeah if you keep that end goal in mind and you operate you in the present moment makes complete nutter sense when you think about it because we all have the same goal and it's like that communion with God that keeps us from legalism or Italy not about bookkeeping right and in a sense it's not finally about me it's about God who out of some incomprehensible love has decided to love me to lavish himself upon my life I don't deserve it but I'm stunned with a sense of gratitude that God would stoop down and take pity on on my nothingness and and that acknowledgment I think is what allows us to live a Eucharistic life filled with a sense of Thanksgiving hmm as we look at holiness and kind of you already started alluding to it because it's about going deeper it's about us but it's also about bringing that out into the world speak for a moment about holiness and the New Evangelization well the New Evangelization is we start with Catholics right and we need to evangelize ourselves so then we can evangelize but really this is a first of all to call a personal holiness because in order to evangelize you have to first be evangelized yourself and I think there's a sense in which every one of us is a Salesman for God I don't want to you know make it too banal but have you ever bought something from someone that they didn't really believe in their product thank you hope sure no you don't write if you're not excited about it what's the point but if you are so you go see a movie that you like you talk about it to everybody and you're not even getting paid to and as we encounter Christ in a real way and it transforms us we shouldn't we shouldn't be able to stop talking about our Lord and this is part of the call to holiness it's not just about ourselves it starts with us but because we are the family of God and the entire human family is called to be a part of the divine family of God we have a responsibility to our brothers and sisters wherever they may be to draw them in and holiness is kind of that bonfire that draws people in from the cold Dark Knight of sin and so we've become this blinking neon sign of Jesus when we're living personally holy lives and that gives us the ability and the grace to go out and reach and grab other people and drag them kicking and screaming if we have to into the arms of Father God and that's powerful that's powerful stay with us on Franciscan University presents [Music] to be holy I see as striving for Christ to be holy is to love as Christ asked us to love and as he showed us well I think of holiness I'd really think of that mother Teresa quote about you know it's not doing great things it's doing small things with great love and it's there's a little things day in and day out you know the little acts of kindness you know the things you do and one you're by yourself you know it's not just what's seen by the public eye it's really transforming everything you do into a sort of prayer people recognize Franciscan University as being academically excellent and passionately Catholic we have the unique opportunity through our faculty members through our students to proclaim that academic excellence by reaching out in many different ways we also remain passionately Catholic in the way in which we are able to worship the way in which we are able to bring that love of Christ to others on a daily basis it's important for us to be able to embrace both [Music] welcome back to Franciscan University presents we've been talking about holiness in prayer with author and speaker Matt Leonard he's the author of the new book prayer works getting a grip on Catholic spirituality so Matt we've been talking about holiness we kind of got an understanding how it's both a practical everyday part of our life but it's also about an encounter and participating in the life of God Regis alluded to it earlier about the sacraments but but how do the sacraments help us grow in holiness well what does that look like in our our call to holiness well they're the ordinary means that Christ extends grace right he this is how we get saved so to speak is through the sacraments and it's the the real channels of grace and so they impart to us something that's objective that then is supposed to empower us to grow in holiness and it's a participation so God gives us something and then we're supposed to act based on that that grace that he gives us and and it's an interesting paradox because anything we do obviously comes from God our ability is that you're in talk is is God ordained right he gave it to us but the sacraments give us a particular grace so that we can grow in holiness and move forward in the Catholic life so it's not sufficient as a Catholic just to be a good person to be a kind person to be a good humanitarian well I think Matt's point is this is how you become good by virtue of sacramental life you plug in to that sacramental system although it's not a system it's a whole ambience of a theater of life it's a setting it's a drama that this is where you encounter God and and it unfolds in these seven very privileged channels of grace I mean the penny catechism I think puts it pretty plainly an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace to communicate God's own life I mean the disproportion I think is pretty startling God's life is somehow communicated through something utterly pedestrian and prosaic a piece of bread you know a glass of wine a trans substantiated into his body and blood soul and divinity I mean it's it's it's Emily Dickinson has this great line she says life is so startling that leaves scarcely any time for another occupation it seems to me that when you see the sacraments you are so startled by what you see the reality is so fraught with the life of Evan that you don't have time to be distracted by anything else and the church I think wants to entice us galvanized us into a life of sacramentality so that everything is steeped soaked literally in the blood of the Lamb there's no escape it's a world you know it's significant I think that you start off by saying you alone or holy God alone is holy we aren't we don't start off being holy we can only begin and being holy through baptism when you go and look at the Old Testament compare it to the new you can see on the one hand that you know Aaron even after helping them build the golden calf is consecrated and ordained and invested with the liturgical powers to be the high priest and on his forehead is holy to the Lord you know not because he himself has become a saint in fact nobody anywhere in the Old Testament is ever referred to as a saint yeah and that's significant I mean after the Incarnation Moses and Elijah participate in the Transfiguration but the only reference in the Hebrew Bible to the Saints is the vision of the future in Daniel 7 were the Saints of the Most High begin to share what the Son of man alone accomplishes so the objective reality of holiness is only God's and then he gives it to us but he does so not through anything that is intrinsic to us but what is purely extrinsic and that is the sacraments you know what's so beautiful though is how it is we subjectively conform ourselves to the objective holiness you know st. Torres the little way to me it's sort of like she was trying to know for a few years as a teenager do great things for God I want to be a missionary and a martyr until she realized that that holy way that the martyrs have trod is just no way she can do it and so she realized I'm just going to settle for my weaknesses I'm going to it your mercy and then all the sudden she realized that the tolerating this sister who worked her to no end you know after she dies you find out that that sister thought that she was - Reza's favorite you know that way of experiencing the love of God in the as you've said the humdrum and the mundane that to me is the surprising in fact shocking way that we really conform ourselves to that which is so intrinsically other God divine we also think of it as something we get to isolated I think in our own little world and and I think to both of your points you talked about the drama and you talk about the Old Testament and plugging into this story that's unfolding that's really the key because this is this is a drama that started in the garden and it's going it is moving forward and it's playing out right now this isn't over and done with in Sacred Scripture and so all of these moments that we are participating in join to the body of Christ are not just affecting us but they're playing a part in salvation history and that's something that we have to keep in mind because we're all joined together that's right Chesterton has a great line he says I love this about God that he takes such an interest in his minor characters we're in this place grifted by a divine playwright God he's the author but he's also the main character he's the protagonist he's in the story himself and and to the degree we anneal ourselves to em were part of the movement the orchestration of that story and that's a pretty exalted status for a god to confer it makes us really special we have a part to play that's much greater than our Potti little selves at that point needs to penetrate our souls because he didn't just script the play he's the main character and he's active in all of the lives of the minor characters because that's what translates you know the the theory of holiness into the practice of prayer because we can talk about holiness and we can even strive to be holiness but we'll never get close apart from that conversation that prayer is and although it's never easy it's always powerful and especially sometimes when it's the hardest of all and I think that's the translation of the sacramental holiness that is so object active into the personal experience of our own weakness which is so subjective because that's where God meets us and that's what surprises me at least the most about prayer that I don't have to kind of conjure it up I don't have to work myself into a a holy state of spiritual frenzy it's like I just have to turn to him and realize he's already there right it's also the converse of that fear you were talking about before where we used to start and you've trembling before Almighty God but prayer is that relationship that we have with God and so we approach him as a father and that's where we really start to understand who we are visa vie God and we are his children and He loves us and that's what's so beautiful about this in in the sacraments there is a kind of tension that we have to preserve and it it can snap I think in one of two ways on the one hand you can make the sacraments so utterly magical so vertical that you've got a deus ex machina God popping out of the machine and and that that of course is is is superstition rank superstition and we want to avoid that but the other extreme is a kind of horizontal ISM in which at the end of the day we're celebrating ourselves it's what we do there has to be that complementarity God takes the initiative which is unheard of undeserved but we have to respond to it and were invited to cooperate to concert our will with his will and the results our salvation history so we have the sacraments they often are admonished to frequent the sacraments and and those sacraments that we can frequent or the Eucharist and confession and then we those are all prayers these are you've often talked about that those sacraments when we look at particularly a confession which is often sometimes just gets pushed to the side but how do we make a good confession and how does that really change the life of grace change our life of holiness is there any thoughts you have as you look forward at a confession just because there's opportunities for grace there that about yeah I think we can all identify with the prodigal son as far as this goes you know here you have him he burns his father and he goes off he squanders everything and then he gets to this point where he's like I'm gonna die if I don't go home and so he goes back and he throw himself in the arms of his father what I find interesting about the story is he doesn't have perfect contrition he's not totally sorry for his sins and everything that he's done he's going back because of fear of death and I think all too often that's kind of what moves us into the confessional so you know we have to be sorry for our sins and we state them and we do our penance and all the rest of it but how often do we go into the confessional out of pure love for offending you know we've offended you God and that's the attitude I think we have to develop for confession and that's the grace that confession gives us too so it helps us start to live that life of love that we were talking about not just it is very comforting though to know that that motivation that purity of intention is not necessary it would be helpful and that's what we move towards but in the absence of that it's not as if God says okay I'm not here I'm out of here right you're still a sinner I'm not gonna Shrive you at all I mean that was Luther's to hang up this is the repentance of the gallows and it's just no good it's inauthentic that that's balderdash God will accept us on practically any terms we're desperate to be made whole maybe because we don't want to go to hell that is enough for now a trician later on I can purify the motive and pretty soon you become you shine like the Sun but right now there are a lot of dark spots you see that in the story too because the father then throws the fear or the son and welcomes them in because his grace is making up for what's lacking in his child it's about the father it is it's an so glad it's more dependent on the father it is on us let me fine-tune the description too because when you said he threw himself into the arms of the father you know it's more like the father right you know it runs out there if it's more as though that the son is rehearsing his lines I have sinned against you in heaven you know and blah blah blah and the father you know it's attrition it's not contrition but I don't care and say I've been waiting for you you're home and that's the point I think that startles us that that he wants us more than we want him and that he wants to forgive us and cleanse us more than we want him to and he's capable of doing stuff that we can't even ask him to yeah you know Pascal in that sublime of encounter he had with Christ Jesus says to him a blaze I have loved you more ardently than you have loved your sins and that he melt seen it just dissolves in tears as a result of that this sudden blinding awareness that God has been looking for me I mean Pascal says I mean Jesus says you you would not you would I I have found you and you would not have found me except that you were looking for me the search is the discovery I mean sanctity is the process the effort to be better is itself evidence of having become better I mean this is why we go to confession more than once provision is made for repeated Falls sona's switchin our last few moments here in this segment we've talked about the sacraments let's talk about prayer in although the sacraments are a prayer when we think about times when we're just praying I'm going to become awkward as if we're just having you know a dialog with ourselves where we don't feel like we're just talking talking talking and we're not getting any feedback you know any any thoughts on on that kind of awkwardness in our prayer with the Almighty yeah I think that this is one of the beauties I think in the way that I was raised and in the Protestant world is that I was taught at a young age to develop a facility for talking to God and when I came into the church I realized we had these beautiful set prayers that could express things in a way that I never could in a million years and I often times fall back on them and so this is one of the things that I encourage people to do is to talk to you think about talking to God as if you're talking to another person now oftentimes we use this imagery of God of a father and maybe we don't have a great relationship with our Father maybe that contributes to the awkwardness of our conversation with father God but we have to realize that he is so much more and above and beyond our own earthly fathers who are just reflecting him but it's really about talking to another person and just like we're talking to to each other this is what the life of prayer isn't it's absolutely ludicrous not to pray because if you're not praying you're not talking to the person who loves you more than anybody else this entire world and and you don't have an awkwardness and talking to those people why God and so we have to practice I mean it's not just something that's innate we need to practice talking to God mm-hmm well the church speaks of prayer as the language of Hope the voice have hope and and those who don't have hope don't pray and those who have a defective hope like presumption they may pray but without any sincerity because they're already convinced that they're gonna make it my prayer has been answered so why do I need to speak these words of petition I mean that that too is a perversion but to have hope is automatically to turn to God because you know is there you believe and on the strength of your hope you have this lively expectation that he's waiting to hear from you in fact he has more to tell you than you could possibly say to him I'm gonna I'm gonna hold your thought let's stay with this as we go a little deeper into the spiritual life on Franciscan University presents [Music] well part of the prodigal sons household and that's a staple in our our covenant is confession and forgiveness I think is one of our biggest virtues that we have because that's the Pelican returns to his father you know he's always forgiven no matter how many times he sins if you ask any member of the prodigal sons return the household you know all of us really are big on confession because it shows us God's mercy and that no matter what you do no matter what mistakes you make he understands and he's willing to accept you in open arms explore the treasures of your Catholic heritage on a Franciscan University pilgrimage led by inspiring spiritual directors you'll walk in the footsteps of saints and martyrs in the Holy Land Poland France and Italy and you'll deepen your love for Jesus Christ through daily Mass confession prayer and the joy of Christian Fellowship led Franciscan University lead you on a pilgrimage of faith find out more at Franciscan ddu slash pilgrimages [Music] welcome back to Franciscan University presents this entire program springs forth from the very heart of Franciscan University in Steubenville Ohio we're being taped right now in the studios of the communication arts department here at Franciscan University the camera and the equipment are being operated by the students here at the University our regular panelists our theology faculty here at the University and Matt you're an alum of the University I am so it is great to be talking to you about prayer and about holiness we want to go a little deeper into the spirituali the spiritual life of the church you go through what you call that this the traditional stages of the spiritual life help us understand what those really are and what why it matters to us the three stages are the purgative the illuminative and the unitive waves and really these are just the traditional stages of the growth of a person I think Aquinas puts it in terms of human growth so from infancy into adolescence and then into adulthood for the spiritual life and they're kind of like a spiritual GPS a you are here map you know when you stop at the road and you look up and say this is how am i doing exactly how are you doing in the spiritual life that's why they're so important so while we have the mass and we have the other sacraments and we have prayer those are kind of the vehicle but they travel a particular Road and the three stages of the spiritual life of that path that we travel in order to get the gun I mean the three stages again the purgative the illuminative and the unitive ways yes and the purgative is kind of that it's like when you get healthy and people kind of purge themselves of their diseases and that's the movement of the soul out of mortal sin into a state of grace and so we're getting rid of the sin and the Vice or preparing yourself exactly but I mean they're not hermetically sealed it's not as if Oh correct on the purgative sazkebab there's no line you cross right that's an important point because I think a lot of times you know when you use the analogy of the map or the GPS it's like okay I'm gonna mi in Ohio West Virginia Pennsylvania and and the fact is the spiritual life is a messy thing and so there are elements of all three at every stage of your life and so you really need a spiritual director you know self diagnosis is a dangerous enterprise when it comes to physical health but I think even or when it comes to our spiritual well-being so going to confession regularly but allowing yourself to really be known by your confessor and getting spiritual direction I think is sort of a cynical unknown without that you really shouldn't be going into this well let me speculate as to where I am what spiritual state no it's true you know st. Teresa of Avila describes her in her mansions you know she says they're not linearly these seven that are your castles if they're arranged no here there and everywhere you kind of move through them as you're moving toward God I think the value of having the he's talking about it as a map or describing the spiritual life isn't for self-diagnosis but for the recognition that we're supposed to mature that's the key right that's it and it's not a free-for-all in the Catholic spiritual life we are moving toward an objective and we have to travel there's a purpose for all of this so we talked about as the purgative and then the intuitive and the aluminium is what the aluminium is it's it's that growth in love so after you've kind of moved past almost kind of the fear factor that we were talking about before you're moving show not the show okay you know I I think going beyond perfect a marvelous example of this would be the mass you have the purgative state at the beginning and then you have Scripture which illumines I I think the interior life and then of course communion I mean that's supposed to be a unit of experience Fran I mean Elliot has this great line in the quartet's I had the experience but missed the meaning but I returned to that meaning so that I can revisit the experience I'm flooded with a grace that I didn't appreciate at the time how many of us have had sort of distracted communions and you've just taken God the Lord of the universe you're flooded with his presence and you're utterly oblivious to this I mean that you need to be purged again yeah I think another way of thinking of this is in Scripture you have Torah law at Sinai and this is sort of meant to expunge idolatry and mortal sin from Israel but when you move from Moses to David when you move from Sinai to Zion you you receive wisdom hokhmah from the son of David Solomon becomes the the wellspring of a divine wisdom that it illuminates people with the light of God's we'll so it's not just thou shalt not it is rather the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and wisdom is this way of life suddenly you realize that I want to internalize the commandments because they come from someone who knows me better than I know myself and who wants something greater than what I want for myself the unitive is when you look you know it's not sign up or zion it's Calvary where you have to unite your will to the will of God like Jesus does in Gethsemane you know and going back for a moment you know it really is important to see that the spiritual life is maturing you know infancy adolescence adulthood and it also helps to remember that sometimes adults can act rather childish and sometimes children can you know can be mature sometimes adolescents think they're adult when they're really not you know and so this again helps us to want to see why they're there blurred but I think the most ironic factor is this you know I I mentioned Torrez already twice because you know I I was on my retreat recently and I read the story of the soul again and you know the maturity that she exemplifies as a doctor of the church and not just a saint is a little way and so the irony is that the more you mature in the spiritual life the more childlike you become and the more willing you are to unite your will to God's will and the will what He wills because He wills it you know st. Torrez the paraphrase er you know I get whatever I want because I want whatever I get you know and it's that acceptance of God's will that is the unity of but it's the driving force at every point along the way it's that childlike acceptance of God which I think Torres evinces throughout her life which is why I think somebody like Balthazar can place her higher even than Teresa of ávila I mean this this this prodigy the spectacular mystic she and John of the Cross levitating together in the parlor in Avila yet Terez the little flower is raised higher than they because of this utter abysmal child like trust in God she exemplifies the always greater aspect of divine mercy me as she lay dying she's told look you can't receive viatical you're not well enough to go to communion before you die and she says well that's alright because in the end grace is everything to take with us grace is everything and for her the primacy of God is what comes before anything else particularly before her own effort her effort is always inadequate always paltry which is why she views the spiritual life as getting on a kind of escalator an elevator that will sort of shoot her straight into the arms of God without any heroic effort on her part just let God let go yeah let God be God and and right yeah and he never has a bad hair day always on always ready to receive us you mentioned Saint John of the Cross and often times when Catholics think about the spiritual life that the dark night of the soul that that John of the Cross talks about is that part of this this purgative aluminium and unitive it is the dark night of the soul which sounds like something Vincent Price or Darth Vader is really the transition between the second and third stages so between the illuminative in the unit of ways and really it's that sense of abandonment that people who have reached the higher stages of the spiritual life experience where gods there but you don't feel him at all anymore and really this is kind of a the full pudding off of the old man and taking on the new and you are learning to seek God for his own sake no matter what it is you feel or don't feel because you're a deep desolation yes and your mother Teresa talked about this and how she experienced this for 40 years and most people I don't think experiment happen to me if the Lord willing if I could get there but 40 years and she experienced this and yet look at what she accomplished and it was still drawing her to that unitive drawing her deeper and she was able to draw others to God and yet she felt only his absence that's astonishing yeah and it speaks in the fact that you can't put too much weight on our emotions we've touched on this before but if you it's like marriage again you know the butterflies come and go but even as the love deepens and if you if you are they're seeking too much on the emotional state you're just gonna lose God and really this is part of what this the growth and the spiritual life does it sheds us of those those dependencies that we have on the human side of things as we seek God for everything I think this is why I mean in the Christian life the defining of experience is charity what have you done for the other not how are you feeling not the warm fuzzy but the life of charity I mean it's a harsh and dreadful thing as Dostoevsky reminds us and Dante speaks of love as a terrible thing it you don't want to fall into the hands of the Living God he's demanding unyielding you have to be as perfect as his Heavenly Father right to think that that's stern that's unbending but at the same time he overcompensates us for our failure to approximate that end he knows he knows where rum dumbs and were not likely to finish the race without a great deal of help you know and we start the race right at the finish line it would seem with baptism we're suddenly in the arms of God and we haven't done anything you know for ordinary schleps like us no just kind of plodding along you know it's tempting to kind of relate an experience I have to the dark night of the soul but I think we have to step back and say okay you know into your hands I I don't really know whether I've gone through a dark night I sincerely doubt it but you know when you step back and look at a dark night of the soul you know there's a dark night of the senses and there's all kinds of ways to analyze the spiritual life but dark night is rather redundant every night is dark you know and so the dark night is precisely when there's no moon there are no stars there's a desolation you know and and there is a guest's M&T experience and and everybody gets a taste of that even if you're not going to get it full blast the way Jesus or Saint John of the Cross you know did and described I just I think it's helpful though to recognize that when God feels distant when he is absent from us that's where we need to allow herself to be really surprised that he's actually closer to us than we realize you know I I've referred in the past to this experience I had in Assisi one night at midnight when I was looking at my seven-year-old son who was looking close to death and surgery a place that would be the last spot on earth where you'd want it to be done in Assisi at that hospital and I I fell to my knees and I asked the Lord for help and he was like what are you afraid of and then what am i afraid of you know out at Port and two and a half hours later I realized that he seemed so distant so action yet he and the angels and the Saints were closer to me that I was to Joe than I was to myself and time and again since then I have discovered that in my fears and you know in that sense of like where are you it's it's dark it's nighttime you know that's when in our weakness his strength is made perfect and our prayer is to even if we're not suddenly praying in tongues or praying in some ecstasy I think in our stammering God is speaking through the spirit you know sighs and lo that that's what Jesus told Vaska hell that memorable night I loved you in my agony I thought of you as I was shedding blood for you can't you at least she had maybe a tear or two for me and and I think that summons a sense of reciprocal love a sense of chivalry I'd like to do a little bit if I can for God who has done so much for me yeah so as we grow in holiness we need the sacraments we need holiness in our lives obviously how we need prayer are there any other final tips as we go on this path of holiness is there are other things we should be doing looking at it you know I think that Scott hit on one that's huge well let me back up first Scripture first of all we can't forget the role the Word of God because this is our fathers manual we want to learn how to be like God right we say read the Bible because it's there and but I think that you hit on this the point of a spiritual director previously and and this is huge it's it's prayer and it's the sacraments but it's also the people with whom we surround ourselves the rest of the family of God and even though part of the growth in holiness is going outside of ourselves and seeking the people that need to be evangelized and bringing them into the family we have to be careful that the people that we surround ourselves are people who are helping us strive for holiness you know and and if we're not we're gonna get drugged out I mean it's like your kid hanging out with the bad crowd they're not gonna take them to Mass you know they're gonna start smoking and drinking whatever else but that that's a huge thing for me and if you don't find people who are gonna push you the holiness you need to look for them you know at a spiritual director who gives you a plan of life so that you schedule prayer a rosary mass at least weekly confession regularly but also morning prayer and evening prayer and I mean just making it so that just your spiritual life is like your physical life you don't just do things on a whim you'll get fired that's you guys off here but let's stay with us for the last segment of Franciscan University presents [Music] one way I stay close to Jesus is through meditating upon his life and when I sit in the chapel I just let him take my mind where he wants it to be I think what's most important is to find a spiritual director so that he can kind of help you get through any kind of concerns or problems that you have and here at Franciscan University we have abundance of that so we're very blessed study online on campus or both in graduate programs for working adults at Franciscan University of Steubenville advance your career with the ethical approach to management you'll find in our MBA bring online learning to life there are masters in education prepare for advanced practice nursing with our masters in Nursing check Franciscan dot edu or call eight hundred seven eight three six two two zero [Music] welcome back to Franciscan University presents we've been talking about prayer and the call to holiness this is our final segment Regis could you start us off yeah I have a couple of things but but first I wanted to thank Matthew for coming and for these two marvelous books I've known you for a long time not terribly well but I knew you as a student and at one time you were holding time cards on the other side of the set I didn't realize that you had grown so tall and very impressive and these books are splendid and I hope I hope they receive a lot of attention certainly the introduction to one of them is absolutely riveting we all know Mike aqua Lena and love and admire him but I'd sure like to get him to write an introduction to one of my books because he's over the top but I'm but having spoken and chatted and listened to you for the last hour I think it's all richly deserved but he he thinks of magnanimity when he thinks of you and he says this is probably how God looks at us the way Matthew looks at other people he doesn't just see what's there but he also envisions what might be there what ought to be there and that's the whole point of the virtue of magnanimity it's a large sounding word but an absolutely necessary virtue it's a pagan virtue and Christianity did not disavow it but deepened and baptized it it simply means a hunger for greatness a summons to sanctity you aspire after great things what could be greater than becoming holy becoming a friend of God and being drawn into his life and and the takeaway line that that I would leave with our viewers is from aguar Dini Romana Gardini who says that in the experience of a great love everything that happens becomes an event related to that love and and it seems to me that the coming of Christ is an event it's not an idea it's not some mental construct we've come up with it's an event a happening the exceptionality of which we can encounter in the sacraments in prayer in life in other people and that summons us I think to a great which is the very soul of magnanimity and if you're an example of it then I think we need to read your book thanks Fiji's Scott I would echo what Michelina said and what Regis just echo to and that is I mean I've known you I was over there what you came into the church you were living with my family now we get to be collaborators in the st. Paul Center and I've seen the work that you've done in journey through Scripture and in these books as well and not just teaching it but living it out in family life and in difficulties and I want to thank you for that the second thing I'd like to point out is the point that I was making right before the last break and that is the plan of life that you point to so that when we waken the first thing we do is turn to God a morning offering and then we leave sometime early on for the gospel we also have morning prayer and then the Angelus or the Regina Coeli at noon and then evening / but there's an examination of conscience I think it's also crucial to have a retreat every year confession at least you know well the requirement is once a year but why not once a month but when you're on a retreat and when you come back as I have recently you reminded of something indispensable and that is spiritual reading in addition to Sacred Scripture and this is where your books come in prayer works louder than words these are great instances of spiritual reading that challenge and beckon and encourage people to continue that plotting along the path of holiness and even if we're not going to get there until we die nevertheless we can get closer and fall more in love and discover how much God loves us and I I think the practical worth and the personal content of those books it's so much more than theory you really share yourself and I'm grateful I am so thankful to God for the wisdom that you're communicating but also living out and I consider myself to be one of the prime beneficiaries of that thanks be to God anything this guy amen it's so ironic and I'm sitting here with you know you guys you two are the first two professors actually that I had at Franciscan and what I learned and so deeply from the two of you and others is that the goal is to be like Christ that's it right that's everything and it's something that's so far beyond what it is we can possibly fathom I has not seen nor ear heard nor the heart of man can see what God has prepared for those who love him and the reason why it's so far beyond what it is we can fathom is because it's divinity and we get to participate in the divine life of God not that we become equal with him but that he pours himself out on us so that we could become partakers of his divine nature 2nd Peter 1:4 says this is one of the things I think that that you guys so instilled in me and and it changed everything in my life and it changes everyone's life when we realize that really the end goal is to be part of a family that that it welcomes us in and transforms us from the inside out and that is something that it's almost incomprehensible and so I think you too for that because it changed my life and we have to remember that this is something that just happens later the topics that we've been talking about with prayer and the sacraments and the people that we surround ourselves with from a plan of life this is all stuff that happens now and it's geared toward what it is we get later but but through the sacraments in prayer we get God now in that process of acquiring the divine nature and and joining ourselves to the love of God starts right now and that's what we have to live that that knowledge has to dictate what it is we do on a moment-by-moment basis in this life no that's powerful thank you Matt this has been an outstanding topic it's been good to know you as a friend and and just seeing the great work that you do and just echo what Scott and Regis shared you are not only doing great work through through your books and your preaching and your teaching and your leading at the st. Paul Center but but just this this work alone makes it very easy for people to unpack this great work if you've been moved by today's topic and interested and hearing more from Matt we have an excerpt from his book how does prayer work it's a great simple guide that you can download at faith and reason com or just for calling us we'll send it to you but this is a great excerpt and a great article too to go deeper into prayer ultimately we are all call to holiness this is a call we've heard hopefully from the early stages of our life and faith but this life of holiness is not something out of our reach and I love the way in the louder than words Matt kind of unpacks a number of the Saints and makes them real it takes them away from just the holy card image the stiff image and shows us their their their their foibles their their their for volley in some of their senses and that it that you too can be a saint and make it a powerful powerful opportunity I was recently on retreat and and one of the things was on st. Francis and it talked about st. Francis and I said although one of his followers said Francis why is the whole world streaming to you why is it all coming to you and he says because I am the greatest sinner and Francis saw himself in in his true light but what Francis had was so attractive it was holiness it was his holiness that attracted the world it was a magnet that drew people in and we will definitely catch more than beating them over the head with the truth by the attractiveness of the life that we live so so go deep into your prayer and sacramental life all the admonitions and encouragement that Scott and others have shared here just go deeper into your life of faith and our world will be transformed and you will all be like st. Francis and the whole world we captivated and drawn to us thank you for watching today's program this whole program springs forth from the very mission of Franciscan University to form those we're going to go out and transform the world for Christ we want to invite you to be a part of that mission by taking classes here as Matt and I have done or to maybe take online or distance education classes maybe you could join us for one of our summer conferences or our pilgrimages to holy shrines around the world or join us at faith and reason com to get some great tools to be a part of the new evangelization until next time may the Lord bless you and keep you [Music] to download the free handout on today's topic go to faith and reason com email your request for the handout - presents at Franciscan ddu at faith in reason comm you can also purchase past episodes of Franciscan University presents or request today's free hand out and purchase past programs by calling 888 three three three zero three eight one that's eight eight eight three three three zero three eight one or call seven four zero two eight three six three five seven [Music] you [Music]

Channel: Franciscan University of Steubenville

Views: 7,787

Rating: 4.9534883 out of 5

Keywords: Franciscan University, Steubenville, Ohio, Catholic, college, Franciscan University of Steubenville, Franciscan University Of Steubenville (College/University), Franciscan University Presents, EWTN, Eternal Word Television Network (TV Network), Michael Hernon, Dr. Regis Martin, Dr. Scott Hahn, Matthew Leonard, St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology, Prayer Works: Getting a Grip on Catholic Spirituality, Prayer Works, holiness, Prayer (Quotation Subject)

Id: 3YvAK-arzWU

Length: 58min 30sec (3510 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 06 2015