An Exorcist Reveals the Truth About Demons w/ Fr. Vincent Lampert

okay ready all right we're recording father Lampard thank you for being on the show again yes it's a pleasure to be here you've done a lot of interviews since we last spoke you just said you're on Tucker Carlson's show and some some other kind of more secular uh shows what's that like it's very it's very interesting to do that but one of the things I like to do is to evangelize so I welcome different people who reach out to me as an opportunity to maybe to reach a different type of audience and to really then present the church's stance on the reality of evil and what we can do to combat it so I'm not really afraid of any audience if you will have you had people be um not just incredulous but maybe aggressively incredulous in interviews with you you know normally it begins off as some of these folks being very aggressive but by the time that we finish the interview the whole demeanor has changed interesting and it's usually rather friendly and you've said before you came in here you were just checking your emails you said you're getting about 10 emails a day exorcism related yeah you know prior to covid-19 I was getting about 2 000 emails and letters and calls a year and now it's up to over over thirty five hundred so I average about 10 a day so I take advantage of any chance I get to try to keep up on them and uh most of those emails what do they have to do with do they have to do with just questions about exorcism or do they believe they're possessed or that their house is infested or something you know it's interesting a lot of these folks believe that they're dealing with extraordinary demonic activity either they're being directly attacked themselves by evil or there's a presence of evil in a location in their home or in their business but I have seen a growing Trend recently of people who are just seeking spiritual guidance if you will it's not that they believe they're dealing with the Demonic but it's almost like there's an Awakening of God in their life and they don't really know what to do with that or where to take it you know these calls are coming in not only from all over the United States but I'm getting people reaching out from different parts of the world a lot of uh inquiries coming out of Australia out of India out of England Ireland is this because of your public presence that you're the one being contacted I think so because many exorcists are not publicly known and those of us who are seem to get a higher volume of people reaching out to us but when I was appointed back in 2005 my Bishop told me if I was comfortable enough that I would be able to be public about exorcism so I use my role not only to work with people on an individual basis but also as an opportunity to help evangelize you said after covert lockdowns you've been receiving a lot more emails and phone calls is that due to your becoming more public or do you think it had something specifically to do with the lockdowns I think it had to do with the lockdowns you know the devil works on people in isolation that notion divide and conquer yeah or I'm thinking of Peter who says or Christ who says to Peter Satan has desired to sift you like wheat absolutely I think a lot of people have been sifted just from being in isolation and you think about it many churches were closed and all kinds of restrictions put into place and now that things are beginning to open up it's interesting that there's a great trepidation on the part of many people about coming back to church I know in my own diocese we've been asking the question what can we do to welcome people back yeah I've got a lot of questions that have come in from our local supporters um Jay Hobart says are the people and groups involved with the recent Balenciaga episode considered to be possessed there seems to be a strong satanic component operating their work just wanna did you hear much about the Balenciaga uh advertisements and I've heard some of about it Neil yeah so I mean bring us up to speed Balenciaga kind of a luxury opulence whatever clothing brand um recently had a couple ads uh you know photo shoots campaign where they had children posing holding bears that were kind of bound I guess would be a way to put it it looks like the teddy bears in drag or right BDSM yeah yeah and then um they're just are various allusions to child abuse basically look what do you mean well specifically the one that I saw was there's a picture of a bag with papers scattered on the table and then one of the papers somebody identified it as a page of from a lawsuit which was the legalization of simulated child pornography gosh and then also um I guess that's the yeah there was another thing that I remember seeing yeah people were saying I think that this is just something I hadn't seen any actual first-hand evidence for this I think people might just be making this up but father maybe you have a perspective on this is people were saying oh yeah the Balenciaga like creative team communes with with demons for inspiration they they hold you know rituals and ceremonies to try to get you know the satanic influence to give them new creative ideas it makes me think of second Corinthians again where Saint Paul says that Satan transforms himself into an angel of Light and he deceives many people I think there's a lot of people that work in League with the devil either directly or indirectly because it's rooted in the sense of Pride people are in floating inflating their own Egos and then seeking power Prestige money that sense of control and dominance over other people and certainly the devil would be right in the midst of that so in this particular organization I can see where people that are promoting a certain agenda especially abuse against the human person might be in League with the devil if you think about it the human person is God's greatest creation because the human person is created in the image and likeness of God and anything that would distort the human person degrade the human person would bring joy to the devil because the devil believes that when he attacks the human person he's indirectly attacking God himself that's just uh yeah terrifying that they would put that much effort right because a photo shoot for an advertisement is obviously put together with tremendous care so to have those letters just so such that they'd be seen by people and recognized yeah do you do you find that there is a normalization of satanic imagery um uh in our culture today that people are becoming uh maybe more Evangelical about satanism yeah I think it's becoming more culturally acceptable no matter where you go if you think about a lot of programs on television today there's a lot of emphasis on the Demonic it's almost like the devil's in Vogue now he's trendy so there's a lot of people that are interested in that topic and interested in the devil and the devil would thrive on that it would love to be the the center of attention like the screaming child so to speak how many uh priests do you encounter or Bishops who think that maybe what you're doing is um I don't know like not authentic or you don't actually believe this or you're something of a what do you say like a snake oil salesman a bit of anomaly yeah like it would be one thing to say people in the world think this but I imagine there's also priests who might you know I I think early on again I mentioned I was appointed 17 years ago early on I think there was a lot of maybe even priests who kind of doubt it you know thinking well if there is evil that's Humanity's inhumane treatment of one another it's something of our own making but certainly not personified in what we would call the devil yeah but I I think today the naysayers really it's not that they don't believe in the devil so they don't want to talk about it it's almost like if you don't talk about it then it's not there yeah kind of like hell yeah don't stir the pot and I think when people look at me as an exorcist and being public about it there may be that perception that it's stirring the pot but my role is really not to focus on the devil it's really to focus on God and that's why I like to be public about the topic it's really bringing God into the Forefront and pushing the devil back out of the Limelight are the rivet times as you're you know praying with people or engaging them that you think that that maybe this is just a delusion that Satan doesn't exist and that this is something uh this could be explained differently than say supernaturally where are you no you're bought and sold Catholic priest does the doubt have a cross your mind oh every once in a while because I I read all kinds of books I just finished reading a book called a possession was written in 1930 by Professor ulsterich out of Germany and I think a lot of what he wrote he didn't really believe in the reality of the devil that it was all rooted in mental health issues and psychology but I like to look at it things from every possible angle so I I read that book and he did explorations of different cultures all over the world and their belief in the demonic so you read these things and every once in a while you might get a question going through your mind yeah but again I do that just to help really solidify my beliefs because again I I stand with the church you know the church very clearly says that you know the devil is real it's per it's personified you know evil is personified in what we call the devil and his fallen angels out of these 10 emails a day roughly that you're getting those which you follow up on how many of them turn out to be uh legitimate [Music] it's really difficult to know that because I think there's a great misperception by a lot of people about what an exorcist does you know people should know that the bishop of the diocese is the Exorcist it's based on Luke's gospel chapter 9 verse 1 where Jesus sends the twelve out and gives them authority over all unclean spirits so the bishop is the Exorcist So then he may at his discretion appoint one or more of his priests to do this ministry in his name which means I can only function within the Archdiocese of Indianapolis because again I function under the direction of my Bishop for me to function outside of Indianapolis I would need permission of the other Bishop of that other diocese so I'm not appointed in Exorcist for The Universal Church really for the local church of Indianapolis so when people reach out to me from other areas I try to connect them with a priest or a Deliverance Ministry in their area I always like to tell people the best place to go especially if you're a person of faith if you're Catholic go talk to your priest if you're coming from another Christian faith tradition because more than half the people who reach out to me are not Catholic other Christian Traditions other world religions no faith background but if you do have a faith background you should always go and speak to the minister of your faith it's kind of like if you're sick you know you don't call a specialist and say I have a headache I need a schedule brain surgery it's you go see your family doctor who then works with you and then may refer you to The Specialist and I think it's so important for people to have that connection with their Pastor because they're going to need ongoing pastoral care once I get finished working with them and that's going to take you know place at the local level so the pastor should be involved from the very beginning a lot of times people will say to me well I'm embarrassed to tell my pastor what I believe I'm dealing with but that would be like going to the doctor and not telling the doctor what's wrong with you can't help you if you don't explain it when you say you've got people reaching out to you from other religions how are they explaining what they're dealing with and why are they reaching out to a Catholic priest the general consensus is that uh Catholics know how to handle that situation there's a lot of other Faith Traditions that even though historically there may be a belief in the demonic they don't really speak about it anymore today or they say they don't have anyone who can do an exorcism or knows how to confront the demonic uh Maya asks female exorcists any examples any active today well in the Catholic tradition it would be again it's the bishop who's The Exorcist and then only a Catholic priest appointed by the bishop can function in this ministry now I will say that you know an exorcism is a liturgical right within the Catholic church so there is a prescribed way for it to be done but it is possible for people just by virtue of their own Holiness and virtue their presence could cause evil to leave Saint Catherine of Siena used to do exorcism so to speak not because she used a formula she would simply walk down the street and people who were possessed the demons would flee because she's radiating the glory of God yeah the same person asks if we notice demonic influences in our proximity maybe in other another person what's your advice how should we act or what should we pray in that very moment in that very moment I think that we would pray that the person would see the world in which they're in and they would make the choice to leave it because exorcisms can't not be performed on someone against their will we all have free will so you can't do something if somebody is freely choosing to do evil we can pray that they change but you can't drag them in and you know bind them and then do an exorcism because a person has to want to be set free Samuel asks who can become possessed and how does that happen I think it's possible for anyone to become possessed oftentimes people will ask the question you know is it possible for a Christian to become possessed so once you've accepted Christ can you become possessed I think the answer is yes if one doesn't live out that relationship I had a young person reach out to me recently in one of these emails that I get and you know said that at the age of 16 he accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior and then continued to have premarital sex and did drugs and was involved in the occult and playing with Ouija boards and all of this and he goes why didn't the fact that I accepted Christ protect me from all these things you can't accept Christ and continue to do things that are contrary to the Christian life because doing things that are contrary to the Christian Life sinning would allow the devil to get a foothold in someone's life how does that not just put people in paralyzing fear though it sounds like you're saying well if you're sinning then you can be possessed surely it's not uh no I think it's a matter of acknowledging because I think the devil you know the word Satan means accuser what does the devil want us to do to sin and then he accuses us and then what happens guilt sets in you know the key ingredient is we're all sinners but we should always be willing to acknowledge our sinfulness that's this Catholic notion of the sacrament of reconciliation it isn't about putting people on a guilt trip it's about recognizing that God's love and mercy is the greatest thing that we can know you know this past Sunday the Second Sunday of Advent you know the story of uh John the Baptist I love the fact when he's out in the Judean desert he's wearing clothing made out of camel's hair he has a leather belt around his waist he's eating Locust and wild honey all of these things are very significant because they they speak of Humanity's sinfulness but God's mercy and forgiveness so a camel is an unclean animal it does not chew it's cud and it has a split hoof the fact that he's wearing clothing made of camel's hair is he's acknowledging that we are all unclean due to our sinfulness but then he's eating locusts now what is Locus think of the plagues in Egypt it's a sign of people being punished for their sinfulness but while honey is according to Saint Augustine is an unmerited Grace he wasn't a beekeeper he wasn't raising bees he wasn't working hard to get the honey it was wild he simply stumbled upon it and that's how God wants to extend his mercy and forgiveness to us and the leather belt around his waist is a sign of one's Readiness to implement the will of God many of us might be familiar with the line in scripture that says gird your loins what does that mean you know think of the tunics that they wore during the time of Christ you would lift it up roll it into a ball around your waist and then put a belt around it so you'd be able to run it shows one's Readiness to do the will of God so again when you think of reconciliation it's about repenting because anything that we can name we can deal with things that we deny control us and that's how the devil gets a foothold in our lives we commit sins and then we try to justify that evil as long as we can still call Sin of sin there's room for God in our lives but when we try to justify sinfulness is when God is booted out what do you say to someone watching right now who's afraid then because they do sin they do repent and they sin and they think it sounds like Father Lampard saying if I'm sinning I can be possessed I wouldn't say you're possessed I mean it's the way the devil attacks us but again it's that notion even father Gabriel amorth the former Chief Exorcist in Rome used to say that a good confession is better than an exorcism again it's when we confess we place it in the hands of God and once we place it in the hands of God Satan the accuser cannot use that against us so again it's really not about worrying about seeing the devil around every corner yeah it's really about focusing on God's love and mercy you know in the Old Testament the 12 Minor Prophets their basic message was God once God loves you you're a child of God just simply repent you know many of the Great Saints say that when we die and we stand before the Lord there's really only one question we're going to have to answer Jesus is going to say to us how much did you love me and if you think about it God is love John's gospel and the persons of the Trinity are united in love God is love so for us to unite ourselves with God there has to be some love within us and it just has to be even the smallest amount God can take something small and turn it into something great so to me when we confess our sins we're demonstrating our need for God and our love for God and then God will certainly Embrace us so it would seem to me that the typical way in which Satan interacts with us is through tempting us maybe that's the first stage you can correct me if I'm wrong and then you've got full-blown possession you know as the most uh intense form of demonic activity in a person's life what are the stages in between those two bookends so Temptation would be the ordinary activity of the devil and then you know there could be the extraordinary activity the devil the church says there's four types demonic infestation the presence of evil and the location associated with an object even in an animal an animal can be possessed think of chapter five of Mark's gospel the story The garrisoned demoniac when the demons were cast out of the man possessed by Legion they went into the swine so animals can become possessed demonic vexation physical attacks demonic Obsession mental attacks and then demonic possession the devil takes control of a person's body treating that body as if it were its own using the person's eyes to see their mouth to speak their ears to hear whenever someone is possessed all the actions of that body now are wholly defined by the demon and not by that person as an individual so we would never say for example that Jane Doe said this no it would be the demon using the person's mouth in order to speak now ordinary demonic activity something that we all deal with I use words that all begin with the letter D so begins with deception it leads to division which leads to Diversion which leads to discouragement so deception we buy into the lies and when we fought by into the lives of the devil what happens we find ourselves broken there's the division now in the midst of all of this what does God want us to do he wants us to repent but when we don't repent we just continue to spiral downward so we buy into the LIE the deception we become divided and then we're broken and then it leads to Diversion we look for a substitute in our lives that we think is going to make us whole and complete think of all the addictive behavior that people have today that somehow they believe it's making them more free and whole as the person but then what does that lead to discouragement deception division diversion discouragement and when we arrive at discouragement we have a choice to make one pathway leads to death one leads to discipleship it's that notion of Reawakening to the importance of God's presence in our lives when you think of death it's always spiritual think of the growing number of people that say they're an atheist today but sometimes death can even be physical the growing trend of suicide in our society where people just lose any sense of meaning direction or purpose in their life and they simply just give up out of the people who contact you what percentage of them would you classify as full-blown possession full bone full-blown possession is extremely rare maybe one out of every 5 000 cases that's what I was trying to get to because I you know we're kind of sort of saying like you if you open yourself up through sin even as a Christian you can become possessed it could make people frightened so I'm glad to hear that it's it's very rare and I would say that you know when we sin we're not going to become possessed but the devil can use that as a way to attack us kind of make our lives broken think of the story of Adam and Eve you know the serpent so there's an example the serpent was possessed by Satan who then was acting through the serpent but God Eve to give in to the temptation and then God comes calling you know Adam where are you obviously God knew where Adam was but he wants to see if Adam will take ownership kind of repent if you will and then when God says what have you done and then he's like well that woman you placed here it's always the blame game pointing the finger at someone else I oftentimes like to think what would have happened if Adam had said to God I have sinned and I'm sorry you know the whole course of human history would be a lot different if people would just acknowledge their sinfulness yeah not to speak for you father but I love how usually your response to things is just you know seek Jesus seek the sacraments so I think that that's like and that's very key because if anyone is dealing with extraordinary or ordinary demonic activity which is all of us on some level we don't need to do anything extraordinary to defeat the Devil as Catholics it's the ordinary aspects of our faith you know if you're going to mass if you're celebrating the sacraments if you're praying if you're reading the Bible the devil is already on the Run suppose you're sitting at a pub and somebody says all right I'm open to believing in the Demonic um but I don't want you to talk scripture I just want you to share with me from your own experience how you know this is true is there a particular story or encounter that you would share with this person that you would say no you know this is almost certainly the the the act of there's a lot of experiences over the last 17 years that have just kind of solidified my belief in the reality of the Demonic so I can go back to the very first exorcism that I set in on so I trained in Rome in 2006. I was appointed in the fall of 2005 at the time I was only one of 12 stably appointed exorcists in the United States the Archdiocese of Indianapolis always has maintained a priest appointed in this role even after the second Vatican Council when it fell out of practice Indianapolis for whatever reason always wanted a priest assigned as The Exorcist the priest before me and ironically was the uh the pastor where I attended grade school and when he passed away in July of 2005 then I got the job even the bishop at the time Archbishop Daniel beeklein he passed away a few years ago from cancer but he told me that he was appointed me because we have always had a priest in this role but he wasn't sure exactly what he was asking me to do and then the church says the best way to to learn how to do the ministry is through the apprenticeship model and there really wasn't anyone to Mentor under here in the United States so I was planning to be on sabbatical and Rome and then that afforded me the opportunity to meet a Franciscan priest father Carmine de philippus who allowed me to Shadow him and then I set in on 40 exorcisms that he performed while I was there he performed more than that but those are just the ones that I set in on over the course of how long three months okay that's a that's a lot of exorcisms in three months he was pastor of St Lawrence Parish outside the walls I lived at the North American college and about three days a week I would walk down to the Fountain of Trevi and right around the corner there's a bus stop Burger King is right across the street and I would get on the bus and take about a 10-15 minute bus ride out to the church and it's St Lawrence is where Lawrence the Deacon his uh relics are there people are familiar with the story where he was uh ordered to turn over the treasuries of the church and he gave the poor the Blind and all of that and so he was roasted alive but the grill is still there plus the stone where his body was laid and you can see the the blood marks and all of that on the stone but that was the church and then there was a courtyard there was always about 50 people in that courtyard waiting to see father Carmine some had appointments and some did not then he had a small office where he would meet with these folks and then that's where I was able to sit in on the very first one the little elderly lady with her husband and she was I was talking to her and father Carmine was in another room so just the three of us were talking she's explaining to me why she believes that she was possessed in dealing with the Demonic and she had been to see him on a previous occasions and this was kind of a follow-up he would pray with someone about 30 minutes at a time and then reschedule them for a an additional appointment sometime in the future so I'm talking to her and the whole time I'm talking to her father carmeny walks in and he puts a roll of paper towels on the table and I'm watching him out of the corner of my eye and I'm still talking to her and her husband and then he walks back in again and he ties a plastic grocery bag onto the wall radiator again I'm watching him out of the corner of my eye thinking what's he doing and talking to this lady that he walks back into the room and he's got his brown Franciscan robes on he has a purple stole on now the sign of the Priestly office and then he has the right of exorcism in his hand he takes holy water and He blesses this little old lady as soon as the drops of water hit her forehead the demon manifested her eyes rolled in the back of her head she began to growl and foam at the mouth her whole disposition can change just his pure hatred and evil this glaring right at me before her eyes rolled back and then she started throwing out all kinds of blasphemies and wow and I'm thinking what in the world has my Bishop gotten me into and then father Carmen he just pauses for a moment he tears a paper towel off the roll he wipes the foam off the lady's mouth throws it into the plastic grocery bag and then just continues to do the prayer of the church how's the husband reacting throughout all this very calmly he's probably seen it before yeah he's seen it before very calm and we're shocked at that quick Sudden Change over this oh yeah it was quicker than you could snap your fingers or flip a light switch how the you know when someone's possessed it means that one has entered into the realm of the Demonic just because one is possessed doesn't mean they're manifesting evil all the time you know oftentimes they could be going through the ordinary circumstances of their life going to work going grocery shopping but something will trigger the the manifestation and usually it's something of a religious nature because in an exorcism the church is taking aspects of our faith and literally throwing them into the face of the demon yeah I suppose at the end of the day in order to accept this as a manifestation of the Demonic or a woman who's possessed you would have to believe because it still it feels like you know mental illness it's just a catch-all and if I don't believe in the Supernatural if I don't believe in God then whatever I'm seeing in front of me has to be chalked up to that even though I understand it there's a lot of people even I've noticed in my years that that do have a mental health diagnosis oftentimes these people believe that it's demonic and I had a gentleman tell me one time and it really made sense to me because he was referred to me by his Parish priest and he had already been diagnosed as being schizophrenic and he was on medication and I met with him and over a few sessions and whatnot and I came to the conclusion that this was not demonic activity but I wasn't just going to say that to him and say it's not the devil going your way so I arranged a meeting with myself him his psychiatrist and his caseworker so the four of us are together and then I say to the man in my opinion you're not dealing with extraordinary demonic activity and then the psychiatrists looked at the man and said father says you're not possessed what's your response to that since you believe you are and his response was actually really interesting because he said I'm disappointed he said you as a psychiatrist can put a label on me and tell me that I'm schizophrenic but you can't tell me why he goes if it's the devil I have my why I think there's a lot of people today that have mental health issues and it's kind of all lumped together under that umbrella but these people are struggling to know why it is they suffer in the way that they do so uh other than having a psychiatrist or psychologist tell you uh there's something more here what are the indicators that this person is possessed I mean you mentioned holy water that that seems pretty frightening but but what are those sort of indicators are there where you think okay this is more than just a mental the church identifies four different things to look for you know number one would be the ability to speak and understand languages otherwise and known to the individual there's no such thing as an emergency exorcism when those things are done problems ensue before I even perform an exorcism I will have gotten to know the person who is possessed so the ability to speak a language I would know already based on my under my background information on that person that they don't speak Spanish or French or you know Hebrew or whatever Latin so if I'm speaking and all of a sudden this voice comes out of the person's body they're speaking a language that I know that that person doesn't speak that might lead me to believe that maybe this is a demon the church says that I need moral certitude to believe Beyond a doubt that the person in front of me is truly dealing with the demonic number two would be another having elevated perception knowledge about things that that person as an individual otherwise would not know three superhuman strength for an aversion to anything of the Sacred nature the holy water having scripture read in front of them being shown a crucifix being in a church or a chapel uh having a relic placed on their head as a prayer is being said if all of these things cause a very strong negative reaction that could be signs of demonic now one or more of these could be present sometimes none of them could be present and a person could still be possessed but these are kind of the four main criteria that the church says that I should look for and have you ever been praying with somebody who didn't know what that thing was that you were putting on them say A Relic or holy water or something like that which oftentimes if I'm trying to determine I say if it's truly demonic if I meet with somebody I may pray with them it's not an exorcism and I may have a relic in my hand and then I'll lay it on their head and usually if it's the person is possessed the demon will immediately manifest so you'll do that get that off me really okay almost like that because again they are aware of the presence of the Sacred and there's no way they would really know what that was before you did it you would do it in secret and even exorcism you like with uh holy water if you're trying to determine whether or not it's demonic maybe you bless them with tap water maybe it's holy water I know whether or not it's been blessed the demon will know that but that person as an individual will not and that will root out anyone who may be trying to put on a ruse or maybe they're dealing with the mental health issue I will say you know going back to building on that last question so the very first exorcism I set in on and one of the ones that I did recently and I've shared this story before was a a woman who had been away from the church for like 43 years so the age of seven growing up in Mexico her father began to rape her hear a lot of horrific stories as an exorcist and she said it went on over a period of five years and then when she turned 12 her father turned his attention to the younger sister and she was broken fractured she blamed God for allowing this to happen and then she turned to witches and curanderos you know shamans and witch doctors who said they could help with the pieces of her life back together but turning to the world of the occult and Magic only left her even more broken she was living in Indiana and of her neighbor invited her to come back to church and before she did the pastor came over to visit with her and the neighbor and the pastor told me that he believed that she manifested that the demon because at one point he goes it wasn't like I was talking to her it was like someone or something else he goes it really frightened me so I agreed to meet with her and her friend and the pastor and the four of us are meeting and she's telling me the story about growing up in Mexico and the rape and all of those horrific things and she begins to sob uncontrollably and then she looks at me and says will you help me and that's when I said well Jesus is going to help you and that's when the demon manifested you know demons don't really want to manifest but they reach the point of such pure hatred and for the human person and arrogance you know demons reach the point where they're like how dare you as a human who's really you know below me even address me wow and the demon when it manifested the person's eyes turn green and their pupils became slanted like a serpent and then the voice changed and the voice goes who's he he can't he has no power over us you saw this oh yeah right in front of me as soon as will you help me and I said Jesus is the one's going to help you and when I say the name Jesus is when the demon manifested wow now her friend sitting next to her literally jumped over the table to get away the other priest with me he felt his knees and began praying Hail Mary prayers and then I got up immediately and I went over and laid my hand on the head of this person and the demon is staring at me this Pure Evil and cussing me out and whatnot and I reached in my pocket and took out holy water and then I blessed the person and when the drops of water hit the forehead the demon shrieked and then and then collapsed to the ground and began whimpering and crying out now I didn't do an exorcism then but I did it the following week as a priest I prepare myself I will spend time in prayer celebrate Mass go to confession I will Fast I'll determine where the exorcism will take place so we're the following week we're in a chapel in Indianapolis at one of the parishes and uh the lady came back her friend came back the pastor was there and uh the exorcism began blessed with holy water which reminds us of our baptism into Christ by which we have become a new creation and as soon as I bless the lady with holy water and she's sitting in a chair in the middle of the chapel as soon as it drops of water hit her forehead there's the demon again the eyes are green the slanted pupils and the demon looks at me and goes you can't get rid of us we've been here too long and you're not strong enough and then begin to growl and snarl and and the right of exorcism after the blessing with holy water calls for the Litany of the Saints calling Upon Our Blessed Mother and the Saints to be present during this prayer of the church reading of Psalms reading of gospel accounts of Jesus casting out demons the prologue of John's gospel and then other prayers that are inserted and then there's the insufflation prayer the breathing on of the face of the person invoking the Holy Spirit wherever the holy spirit is present and unclean Spirit cannot remain recalls Jesus appearing in the upper room and saying to his disciples receive the Holy Spirit he breathed on them so I breathe on the face of this person invoking the Holy Spirit just very lightly just and when I did that the chair flew back 10 feet and hit the wall like had been hit by a strong wind and then there is a shriek in the scream and the woman comes flying out of the chair and she collapses onto the floor myself and the other priests pick her up and she's she's literally glowing there's a beam about her the eye green eyes are gone and she begins to glorify God so the the best way to describe the glow is think of a painting of a saint where there's a halo around their head they're not radiating their Glory they're radiating the glory of God and as an exorcist that's one of the things that I I noticed that when a demon has truly been cast out the person literally begins to Glow because they're no longer within the realm of the devil they're now within the realm of the Holy Spirit let me ask you a skeptical question uh someone might say okay if this is really true and uh God wants us to believe in him and believe the Catholic faith then surely we could get this stuff on film and you might say well we have to respect the privacy of the person we're praying with but presumably you could ask them ahead of time whether this is something they'd be open to having filmed and even after the fact they could view it and then kind of give you permission to share it it would seem like one video like that on YouTube would convince a lot of people of the reality of the Demonic and yet do we really see anything like that yeah the church does not permit that just to protect the identity of the person kind of like the sacrament of confession you know we don't publicize anybody's sins now if somebody decides to go public you know in Indiana there was that case out of Gary Indiana where that woman who received exorcism prayers then went public and I think there's a movie being made or has been made so what the individual does that's to them but the church as an institution isn't going to be filming these things we'll always protect and Safeguard the identity of a person the other reality is that if people are naysayers even if you watched it on video yeah you can say it was manipulated there's a kind of a very crude video that's that been circulating where someone said that father amorth before he died permitted someone to record an exorcism that he was that he was doing it was almost done with like a a phone and so the quality isn't very good so then it's a question of did Father amorth really give that permission or did somebody really kind of sneak that in essay and was the video shocking convincing perhaps I think it just raised more questions so fair enough M50 asks do you yourself ever feel unsafe or scared during an exorcism no no I would absolutely not early on I would say but no wow I'm more concerned about you know somebody that may have a mental illness and maybe wants to do some type of physical or you know harm to me or just someone else you know so the devil is the easy one easier one to deal with because he operates under certain parameters so I know what to expect from the demon but again people that may Harbor ill you know wishes towards me or whatever that's a whole different situation but again if an exorcism is done properly and the priest prepares himself there really isn't anything to be afraid of because it's not me so because if it was me we'd all be in trouble but just a recognition that in an exorcism Jesus is not a bystander he's the main actor and the Priestess acting in Persona Christie in the person of Christ so as long as I am operating according to how the church says that I should then I have the church backing me up if I go out on my own is when I could get myself into trouble you know you think of the sacramental life of the church the personal charism of the of the priest doesn't matter you know the priest is a bad guy he does a wedding there's the people are still married right he does a baptism the person is still baptized but that's not true with an exorcism so the devil knows who is in front of him so if somebody believes someone in their life to be possessed you would tell them not to start praying Deliverance prayers over them or would you not say that it depends on whether or not somebody is really well grounded in their faith because if you're going to begin praying with somebody you can do Deliverance prayers because there's two different types of exorcisms and prayers you know there are the imperative which are commands given to demons and then there are supplicating prayers which are prayers directed to God you know God see how your servant is afflicted by the evil one please come to their aid and we know that anyone can pray on behalf of someone else but if you choose to pray with somebody a Deliverance Prayer that's supplicating prayer directed to God and you believe that person is under a demonic attack you have to be prepared if there is some type of manifestation so you can't pray and all of a sudden there's a manifestation then you run away right okay uh Jules 79 says can a demon cause the possessed person to hurt or kill others our Mass murderers may be possessed you know the in the right of exorcism there's a prayer that's Prayed by the priests before the exorcism begins asking God to protect and Safeguard the one who's possessed and everyone involved in that prayer of the church and again if things are followed in the proper you know the protocols again that's why there's no such thing as an emergency exorcism a colleague of mine said that you know after he was trained and was doing an exorcism he didn't really prepare himself properly and when the demon manifested he got punched in the face so in my you know in my experience when things are done according to the proper procedures there is no concern about anybody getting hurt or the demon hurting that person it's when things are done in an improper way because demons are always looking for the and the armor if you will or the crack and then use that as an opportunity to disrupt the prayer of the church uh Jacob says in your experience as any Protestant or other from outside the church sought exorcism then converted to Catholicism afterwards so you mentioned a moment ago people not being Christian but reaching out to you have you had that experience of praying with somebody and them coming into the church because they've come to believe in the reality of Satan you know I have not had that experience but it made me think that there's a lot of people today because I you know faith is in Decline Christianity built Western Civilization but there's a lot of people today that may have grown up in a traditional Christian home but they no longer practice their faith but they believe they're dealing with the demonic and rather than saying wow when I was a faithful person I didn't have this problem maybe I should return to my relationship with God but it's interesting that a lot of people want nothing to do with God but they want the demon to go away so there is a growing trend for people reaching out to me to view the Exorcist as a magician that I have a bag of tricks I can make their problems go away but they want nothing to do with God interesting yeah Jacob says does father or other Catholic exorcists ever cross path with a work alongside Orthodox Coptic or other priests in regards to exorcism so are you are you sharing notes are you dialoguing with people in different Apostolic churches some of us do I mean I did a Zoom call this year earlier this year with a a Greek Orthodox priest in the ssal he he pronounced it thessalonica I always thought it was thessalonica but thessalonica is what he said so there is a Greek Orthodox priest and we were doing a zoom call and he was asking me about exorcisms and whatnot so I do dialogue that may not be true of all priests but to me the battle was again Satan and I think of that line in scripture where Jesus says those who are not against us are with us and to me the more unified we are as believers is that we can put on a more united front if you will to combat the forces of the Demonic yeah Anthony Skinner says I'd love it if you would ask father if he thinks that there were more demonic possessions in the time of Jesus than there are now I don't know that I would say that there were more I think there's a lot I think there's a lot of possessions out in the world today now many people might say well we've we've grown up as a human society you know sometimes people will look at me and say well if you believe in demons and spirits you're kind of in the minority but the reality is the people who don't believe in these things are really in the minority because majority of people throughout the world believe in spiritual entities now if we're only looking at it within the context of the United States yeah that's a pretty narrow view but when you look at many different peoples and cultures they believe very readily in the fact that what they're dealing with is of a spiritual nature yeah hey I want to say thank you to the greatest prayer and meditation app in the history of prayer and meditation apps you know what I'm 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what is the right of exorcism's relationship to the sacraments does the right incorporate the sacraments well exorcism is a sacramental and then we know that of the sacramental life of the church the seven sacraments so I would say the right incorporates elements of the sacramental life of the church again holy water reminding us of our baptism the insufflation prayer invoking the holy spirit so we think of the Holy Spirit received in baptism the fullness within the Sacrament of Confirmation so to me the right of exorcism would solidify amplify if you will the sacramental life of the church Ian says could father elaborate on the exorcism takes place during the baptismal riot is it any different than the classical exorcism why is it so simple is it necessary yeah the exorcism right so that's done and that's kind of more in a generic if you will so it isn't that the person is being you know attacked by a specific demon or demons the exorcism right within baptism acknowledges the fact that all of humanity suffers the effects of original sin and again it's because Satan was behind original sin there in the garden you know at you know in the guise of the serpent that that is being acknowledged and addressed but it's more in a more of a generic way if you will I think there's still a validity to that because again it just recognizes the fact that we are all born into a world that has been affected by sin yeah uh Jay and Linda says does Father believe those in power politicians entertainers members of the media Etc understand the darkness that has overtaken them they seem to be willfully blind to the evil they are perpetrating I don't know that I would say that all people in power politicians are you know under the Demonic there's a lot of good people out there I do think sometimes people may succumb to this you know the sense of Pride and ego and maybe give in to to Vice and then rather than focusing on Holiness and virtue in God maybe they begin to promote their own agenda that's certainly what Satan wanted to do he wanted to take the place of God and sometimes we inflate ourselves just for the sake of maybe the almighty dollar yeah what are the well you've explained this a little bit but I'd like to ask a bit more Gina says what are the differences between obsessions oppression possessions and infestation can you talk about your experience of maybe those who have approached you about things taking place in their house or surroundings that aren't natural you know demonic infestation people should understand that demons don't have an address you know they don't live in a location they're pure spirits pure intellect so we would say that a demon is neither here nor there we would say it's here or there of his choosing to act there so when it comes to demonic infestation the question would be why is there a demon choosing to manifest in a location again the demon is not living at the abandoned hospital or prison you know it could be that maybe some horrific thing was done there sometimes it may be the things that people are doing to try to engage demons in these locations that are causing them to be present there yeah I was going to say it made me think of you know St Thomas Aquinas yeah I was about to bring him up actually because in the Summa he talks about that that persons in Hell or Heaven or even Purgatory God can allow them to manifest themselves to the living for different reasons so you could imagine somebody in purgatory manifesting themselves to a loved one to beseech their prayers Aquinas says this is a possibility what's your experience been uh you know there's a church in Rome the Purgatory Church it's the only Baroque Church in the city of Rome it's right on the Tiber there's so many I was just in Rome a few weeks ago and I wish I had a lifetime to spend walking around to the public anymore when I was studying in 2006 it was open you could go in there they have artifacts where they believe that souls in purgatory reached out to the living like there's pillowcases that have uh pans that are burnt onto the pillowcases so somebody was sleeping and believed that the soul of their loved one in purgatory was reaching out to them God permitted it so you go into this church and there's kind of a little Museum of all of these artifacts if you will so now God does you know permit these souls to reach out but the thing I was going to say about Saint Thomas Aquinas he would say that demons as pure spirits are not contained by space they contain the space right right so like the haunted house it's not that the demon is living there it's containing that space either because something horrific was done there or because of the actions of the Ghost Hunters the paranormal investigators the things that they're doing are attracting the attentions of the Demons uh Alan says what are all the ways an evil spirit may enter and stay in your home could an invited guest bring one that stays within your home I would say you should always be very careful on who you're inviting into your home you know you're inviting someone that may be engaged in the cold activities or satanic worship you know maybe those are people you don't really want to invite into your home because they bring their baggage with them so to speak you know sometimes people will you know engage in activities that they might believe to be fun and entertaining but don't really understand that they're creating a connection with the Demonic world so we can create that connection either directly or indirectly so again with infestation people should make sure that they don't have things in their home that are inherently evil that were specifically created to make a connection between an individual and a demon so think of a Ouija board it's in to me it's inherently evil its purpose is to communicate with demons think of like voodoo dolls again things that have to do with magic and Witchcraft so the question would be when it comes to demonic infestation is there something inherently evil so sometimes people may go on vacations and they buy all these souvenirs they think are you know kind of nice or whatever but you know sometimes these items may have some type of demonic component behind them and then when people bring them into their homes now I'm not suggesting that people start panicking and think oh what did I bring into my home but to me the thing would be is something consistent with my Christian belief and if it isn't consistent then I would suggest that maybe these are things that should have no place in our homes what's your opinion on the pachamama incident that took place in the Vatican oh yeah that's been that's brought up a lot of discussion about you know is that demonic in nature to me again I would filter that right back to what I just said to me if something is contrary to our Christian identity at least for me that I really don't want anything to do with it and rather than you know saying that something is bad I would prefer to say that's inconsistent with what I believe and I would leave it at that so to me you know that whole thing about pachamama was trying to bring up maybe some type of cultural paganism or whatever and trying to incorporate that within Christianity did you think it was good that it was thrown into the Tiber stolen and thrown I think it well I think it was a good thing that that happened you don't have to comment on it if you'd rather not well I think it's a good thing that it was gotten rid of I don't know that throwing it in the Tyro was the right thing to do you know anything that's of a demonic nature infestation should be disposed of properly like when somebody says to me they have a voodoo doll what should they do with it you know to me the items should first be blessed and then it should be burned or destroyed it shouldn't be placed somewhere where someone else can get a hold of it and then it continues on in circulation so to me whatever it is there needs to be a complete end to it so that it doesn't I don't know end up in different hands uh Patrick Turner says what are some common misconceptions people have about exorcists I think they think that we're all kind of stoic I tell people I have a crazy sense of humor so uh and I think that's healthy because when you deal with so many people that you know are dealing with so many hard situations in their life it can kind of drain you so to speak so yeah yeah I used to speak a lot about pornography and right on the topic and so I was constantly encountering people whose lives had been Shattered by it and it really got exhausting I mean it was an honor to be with these people and to hear their stories but I'm sure it's all the more difficult for you dealing with what you deal with yeah absolutely because again and I think sometimes people have a perception you know the Exorcist has got his black suit on and black hat and blacks briefcase and kind of moving around in the shadows but you know I'm also the pastor of two parishes so what do you do for leisure I I like the outdoors so I visit National Park sites there's over 420 and I've been to about 350 of them so I like to uh just to be in The Great Outdoors you have a favorite Park that you've been to recently favorite Park I would it's hard to say one to be like asking Matt which of his children is his favorite he wouldn't want to be put in that position I would mention the state of Utah yeah there's so many different National Park sites in Utah South of I-70 and uh yeah just amazing beautiful spectacular uh I like what you said earlier about the human person you know uh short of the Angels is the greatest of God's creation and maybe we are since we've been elevated through the Incarnation um so that the degradation of the human person sort of is a win for the Demonic that was really interesting and that leads to this next question is there a correlation between pornography use and demonic obsession what is what is demonic Obsession mean demonic Obsession we made mental attacks literally the devil's trying to get into a person's head so that everything they think is being filtered through the presence of evil you know people suffering from demonic Obsession you know they can they believe they keep hearing things or they see Shadows it's it's almost like they can't turn the Demonic off wherever they turn there's some manifestation of the Demonic that's there you know when it comes to addictive behavior pornography you know that's relegating the human person to a commodity to an object to a beast yes absolutely yeah again it goes back to Aquinas you know there's three different types of creation if you will there's purely Spiritual Beings there's purely corporeal beings and then you have the human person that is corporeal and spiritual and to me when we people give in to like pornography we're just focusing on the corporeal the the Beast thing you know it's like I was thinking the other day that if somebody's out in the woods and a bear attacks them someone will say well the bear is only acting according to its nature now if a person attacks another person we would never say well that's in their nature they're just acting according to their nature again we realize on some level whether or not we fully realize it that the human person has the capacity for good and so much more and to me pornography just degrades the human person almost to a more of an animalistic instinct yeah it's like the horror of pornography can only be understood in light of the Dignity of the human person it's like if God does not exist and this is all just one big Cosmic accident with nothing holding everything up and sustaining Us in being then we are just sort of developed primates and uh what does it mean at that point to degrade the human person we don't talk about degrading paper clips and mud and see that's so funny you say develop primates I I've had some Exorcist colleagues say that when demons have manifested they've said to The Exorcist how dare you this crazy monkey to give commands to me this great spiritual being that I am so there's that sense of arrogance because demons would prefer not to manifest but they reach the point where they just cannot stand the fact that a human person that they consider to be so inferior right that primate if you will is actually giving commands to them wow yeah you should be submissive to us exactly I mean if all parents know what it's like to have a child disrespect you and you think who are you but the the this the Demonic Spirit must see us as infinitely less and the arrogance forces them to manifest and say they just lash out because they just cannot tolerate uh has your faith changed Tommy Lee says since becoming an exorcist absolutely how so I think my faith has grown I think it's also helped to reshape my priesthood you know there's fewer and fewer priests today I mean you look at the fact that I have a The Exorcist colleague of mine who he's from Romania originally he became Catholic and he he was studying in Italy and he said there was an Italian Bishop that was talking about the declining number of priests and he put it in this story where he said this man was driving his ten camels across the Arabian Desert and with all they were loaded with all of his belongings well one of the camels dropped over dead so the man took everything off of that one camel and then dispersed it amongst the other nine and then he traveled on further and another one dropped over dead and then he had to take everything off and disperse it amongst the other eight that it's not you know with the growing number of fewer priests it's not like the workload is changing the priests are just being asked to take on more and more and more and the danger to that is in my opinion that priesthood becomes an occupation rather than a vocation and to me the word vocation means a calling from God a priest does what he does because God has called him to do it people ask me all the time of why did you choose to become a priest you know you didn't get married or have a family and you know the whole Litany of things that people will give I say I understand all that but I believe this is what God wanted me to do and if you're going to be true to God you have to do it and then believe that God's going to give you the strength to live out that calling but there is that danger today because priests are taking on so much more and more that it's becoming an occupation not a vocation so to me the role of an exorcist has helped me to ReDiscover priesthood as a vocation yeah yeah Christianity doesn't make any sense without the Demonic and by extension the Christian Life and living that doesn't either and so if we fail to believe in the Demonic then Christianity just sort of becomes Triton nonsensical and that is what you see in people's lives I think and maybe even in the lives of some priests so I would imagine the ministry you're doing is even helping priests remember their dignity yeah you know there's a great line for priests is that if a priest takes his priesthood seriously so will the devil but if he doesn't take his priesthood seriously neither will the devil you know I've been blessed and been asked to give different workshops to different groups of priests across the country just about somebody comes to you and says they're dealing with a demonic how do you how do you deal with that rather than just you know being shocked and saying I don't know what to do or you know call The Exorcist or just hang up the phone don't call them back but just as a way of you know letting pre the priests know that there are things that they can do and obviously the best thing they can do is greet people with the sacramental life of the church you don't have to know as a priest you don't have to know how to do an exorcism but you should know how to pray with somebody to hear the confession and you can anoint them you know to be pastorally present to them you can do something for them but just ignoring people to me is not the solution and there's that danger too that you know as you just said if people don't believe in the devil whether it's fellow priests or Ministers of other Faith traditions and really what is our faith really all about because you know the name Jesus means God Saves what's he saving us from yeah and I would suggest that it's from something real something evil the devil how important are the sacramentals in the church in reference to the Demonic crucifixes holy water rosaries they always point to a greater reality so I think they're very very powerful again you think of holy water you know the power isn't necessarily in that water but it's representing our new life into Christ you know you think of a crucifix why is that used because when Jesus is dying on the cross the devil believed that it was the moment of his victory but the moment of his perceived Victory actually became the moment of his defeat so when the priest holds up a crucifix during an exorcism he's saying to the demon you have been defeated before you will be defeated again do not resist the power of Christ uh akab 77 says what is the most effective way to get rid of generational demons maybe you can help us understand what that might be how we can protect those in our family who don't even admit that there are demons so two questions generational demons would be ones that have attached themselves to the family line so maybe there was an ancestor that created some type of connection bond with a demon gave the demon authority over the family and then family members are then impacted by that connection few years ago I did an exorcism in a yupik Eskimo Village in Alaska at the request of the bishop of Fairbanks if the 300 miles west of Anchorage I was training the new Exorcist there in Anchorage so the two of us flew to this small village the family came up River two hours by boat and the amount Meadows at this Catholic Church in this Village and uh the young lady who was possessed the bishop had already evaluated her and told me she was possessed and then wanted to know if I would do an exorcism and then she came with her sister her brother-in-law and her grandmother and I was speaking with the grandmother and the grandmother told me it was her parents so her her mother was the witch in the village and her father was the shaman and by those activities they gave authority to Demons to attach themselves to the family line it to the degree now that the young girl the great granddaughter was being she was possessed what were some misconceptions you had about demons and Satan prior to this work misconceptions that's a great question because I don't I can't really think of anything in particular I think one thing Thomas says in his work day Marlow on evil is that the demons can't read our thoughts no they cannot and that was something I think many people would be like oh they're good to know so maybe things like that maybe not misconceptions you had then the what are some misconceptions Catholics have yeah and I would say it helped to clarify those things so the devil cannot read your your mind you know only God can do that but the devil is very intellectual very knowledgeable so he can use deductive reasoning he can watch us and observe us he can guess what we might be thinking or how we might act and then present that as a truth even though it's just an educated guess that he's making you know demons do not know the future only God knows the future so the devil always tries to present himself as something more than he is because he wants to put himself on the same level as God but again cannot read your mind doesn't know the future a demon cannot jump out of one person and into another I hear people ask that well father aren't you worried during The Exorcist and the demon will leave that person and come into you or someone else no that can't happen someone would have to invite the demon in again either directly or indirectly so the devil will look for you know some kind of crack in the person's Spiritual armor as a way to try to enter in so we should never give the devil more credit than he is due yeah Joe Ward asks I'd like to know how exorcists feel about Protestant exorcisms I am a convert from protestantism and have heard countless stories of exorcisms growing up and they don't seem to match the Catholic system but seem effective thoughts how can I discuss with my Protestant friends and family the Catholic church does not have a monopoly on the practice of exorcism goes back to what I said earlier it is one of our liturgical rights so there is a prescribed way for it to be done in the Catholic faith again the bishop or his priest that he designates to do this ministry in his name but the Catholic Church would say that ultimately Jesus is the one he's The Exorcist he is the one acting in and through the church and it goes back to that line of scripture that I read earlier too that you know those who are not against us are with us you know when the apostles return and they say to Jesus we saw someone casting out demons in your name and we tried to stop them so to me exorcisms can be effective within other Christian faith traditions because Christ is the one who is acting in those situations but again from the Christian or from the Catholic perspective it's a liturgical right so there is a prescribed way that we we do the ministry and then again it also goes to the notion that that Apostolic authority of the bishop so I would say at least from a Catholic perspective that it's more efficacious within our tradition but certainly there are elements of that that can be found in other Christian faith Traditions as well have you ever had a conversation with a Protestant minister or somebody who wanted to learn more about exorcisms yes I have I have some that are ongoing right now I love dialogues with others because I believe especially in this moment in the in the 21st century I should point out too my mother was a convert so half of my relatives are they belong to other Christian faith Traditions but to me it isn't that we are in a state of competition to me it's not that at the end of the day we get to say why have a bigger peace of God than you do and to me people of faith today need to be more united than ever especially and I think believing in the Demonic is a great way to realize that the Protestants aren't the enemies yeah well the Catholics aren't the enemies but so often when you forget that you actually have an enemy and there are problems to be solved you begin to look at each other as the source of that and I think you know when I think of Christians in general I mean when we argue with each other it's usually about things on the periphery but what's at the core of our faith Christ himself that's really where we should be focused and it makes me think of you know I have eight brothers and sisters so come from a large family you know children within a family have a different relationship with their parents it isn't one isn't better than the other it's just different so when I look at all of the diversity within Christianity to me it's like children of the same family and we just have a different relationship with the parent but again we're all still United as one and we recognize that God is our father okay uh well speaking of Protestants Ravel rabble says Protestant here for context how uh sorry why are there seemingly fewer examples of New Testament type possessions if that makes sense now then in those times I suppose you would question that premise you don't think that's the case I don't think that is the case I will say that I think during the old during the New Testament times you know a lot of what we see in scriptures that's why people will read those and say well that really wasn't a possession it was a mental health issue because even a lot of what the church says can be criteria to validate cases of possession can be explained by mental health issues you know if someone has Tourette Syndrome there can be you know vocal outbursts and so a lot of the things that we see if an exorcism can also be explained by mental health issues but to me I don't think there's any fewer cases I think we live in an age though where we are quick to Discount the reality of their money because we think we can explain it by you know the mental health field you may have already answered this but what is the most unbelievable thing you have witnessed during an exorcism ask Joseph and if you have already answered that I'm thinking that lady's eyes turning green maybe the second most unbelievable thing eyewitness levitation so I saw a a body levitate the demon caused the person's body to wow to rise out of the chair during an exorcism what these are all you know they're tricks of the the devil because the devil is doing all of these things to basically say look at my power and what I'm capable of doing so yeah during an exorcism I when the when the demon manifested and was possessing the person's body at one point the the person's face got this hideous look and grin and then at one point as I'm watching the body begin to rise up out of the chair how far yeah like a foot out of out of the chair and basically the the thing was look at me look at me don't look at God look at me look at me was other people in the room with you well there always has to be somebody I imagine yep that must be helpful because I would imagine if I saw something like that if I was the only one who witnessed it I would think it's possible I just imagine that or you think you're losing your mind but yeah but afterwards was able to talk you know other people had witnessed it that were in the room wow what is a daemon's goal with possession is it just to torment the victim or are they trying to use the victim to affect changes in the physical world asks local supporter Jacob thanks Jacob I think the real reason for demonic possession the answer lies at the the core of our Christian belief the greatest thing that God did for us is the Incarnation God took on human form and the person of Jesus so the devil and his demons believed because they want to mimic God and be like God that by possessing a human body they take on human form so it to me it's kind of a a way to play God so to speak and then obviously when they manifest they degrade the human person there's all that animalistic behavior and whatnot so rather than you know the person demonstrating the goodness and the glory of God and virtue and Holiness it really is like animal instincts prose 111m says in regards to interview with Exorcist what is the one thing humanity is doing right now that causes an increase of exorcisms to be performed the number one thing that people are doing is uh telling God to get out of their lives you know we all have free will Free Will is the only thing that God doesn't have from us it's a thing that God desires I mean the goal of the Christian life is to unite our Free Will with the will of God and when we do that we don't lose ourselves I think a lot of people believe that that if you surrender your free will to God then you become like a slave yeah but I think of Saint John Paul II who said that freedom in the true sense of the word means to be faithful to God when we live in the manner that God created us to live we discover what it truly means to be free you know even Pope Benedict said that you know when we remove God from our understanding of freedom freedom is not enhanced it becomes distorted again because it's deprived of its basis namely God himself yeah these are a single book that you would recommend people pick up to learn more about this I know you've written one I wrote a book I certainly don't promote myself or toot my own horn but during Covey lockdown I wrote a book Hermes Road publishing you know um you know exorcism the battle against Satan and his demons is very powerful the books by father Gabriel amorth are are very good give people a general understanding of the reality of of the Demonic World anytime any people read any of these books so it should always be with the goal of becoming more oriented towards God and not becoming fixated on the world of the Demonic yeah I was going to ask that because I think it was Lewis who said maybe in screw type lettuce that there's two errors we can fall into one is to think Satan doesn't exist the other is to go looking for him under every Rock and perhaps we might be accused of going looking for him under every Rock in this episode today but I think it's so as to balance out the he doesn't exist attitude that many Christians have or he's not active in my life yeah I think the more that we better understand the devil I think that we come to understand that he's really nothing to fear you know again in the world of exorcism what the church is doing is dragging the devil Into the Light of Christ you know if you think about it you know when a home is infested with bugs the bugs thrive in the darkness when you walk in and turn on the light they Scurry for every crack and crevice so again in an exorcism a person who's possessed is having the Light of Christ thrown upon them and when that happens the demon will scurry and to get away yeah how do you stay humble in this ministry I always remember uh you know the words of Father carmeny they're kind of etched in my head because before I left Rome after the three months I was there I sat down in just kind of had a one-on-one discussion with him reflecting on the past three months and and then asked him you know what final advice would you give me as I prepare to head back to the States and do this ministry of my diocese and he looked at me without even even pausing for a moment and he looked at me and said if you're ever doing an exorcism and think for a moment wow look at what I'm doing he said you've just walked on Unholy ground you said you as a human person could not go up against a demon without God on your side and when you start focusing on yourself then God is Not on your side how important is it to maybe have a Devotion to our guardian angel I think it's very powerful I do you know our I like to goes back to Saint Thomas Aquinas again that our guardian angels are more powerful than the Devil Himself hmm and why is that the case you know I was unaware of that statement it's because that uh the belief is that Lucifer was a seraphim Angel the greatest of all of God's Angelic creatures closest to the throne of God think of the nine choirs of angels seraphim are at the top our guardian angels are in the ninth choir but it's you know Aquinas would say that an angel in a lower choir who United their will with the will of God is greater than an angel from a higher choir who rebelled against God I'm thinking of a line from Louis de montfort's true Devotion to Mary in which he says that in some in in a very real way Satan fears the Blessed Virgin Mary even more than God himself not because he says that the power and hatred of God aren't infinitely Superior or greater than the Blessed virgins but because of his great arrogance he's uh more frightened to be overcome by a little handmade than than God himself and that sounds like it's kind of resonating with some of the things you've already said here today about the hour yeah you think of senegast and even Aquinas again would say that you know most people would say that it's the sin of pride but Augustine and even Aquinas would say that you could take it a step further and say it's really the notion of the Incarnation that the devil cannot accept that human flesh will be elevated higher than he will and if you think of the role of our Blessed Mother you know she says yes to God so kind of reverses the no of Eve so Eve's no and disobedience is reversed by Mary's yes and obedience and then she becomes the Queen of Heaven which means then again she's even elevated a higher above him yeah yeah and going back to our guardian angels I was thinking that there there are three words that come to mind when it comes to the importance of our Guardian Angels they they're i words again I like words that are kind of similar yeah they Inspire us they instruct us and they illumine us so they Inspire us to be faithful to God they instruct us to live out God's Commandments and they illumine us so that we continually grow in Holiness and virtue and be the people that God is calling us to be how uh powerful is the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary and exorcisms that you've done is it an integral part of the right absolutely that's included right there right after the blessing of holy water and then the Litany of the Saints immediately invoking our Blessed Mother to come and be present during this prayer of the church um if there are priests watching right now who would like to get involved in exorcism Ministry what should they do I'm laughing because I was thinking that in the years I've done this you know I've told my Bishop I would say oh Bishop I've met some of our younger priests that are interested and the bishop said I'm worried about anybody who would want to be The Exorcist he said the fact that you didn't want it is why you get to have it okay so but I would think any priest that may have some interest yeah you know just don't you don't go to your bishop and say I want to do this but you would talk to your bishop and say Bishop I have some interest in this area and if you're ever looking for a priest that you might consider you know I throw my name in the hat in the ring yeah maybe they don't want to be a Exorcist of their diocese but maybe they're beginning to see things because there is an exorcist training school in the United States now okay when did that start and what's that like it's located up at uh Mundelein seminary in Chicago it's supposedly on the 13th Institute so it's a place now where Bishops can appoint Exorcist and then they can go and train over a two period of time to do four modules uh so like for 10 days segments I believe it is go up and then do you teach there or do you speak there I have not but I have recently been asked if I would give a a talk to Exorcist on the pros and cons of being public as an exorcist what are some of the cons you can just be bombarded by so many people and you can be ridiculed yeah but I don't really care you know at this stage of my life you know I would say that I will propose what the church teaches and what people do with that is up to them yeah but I don't really worry about people's opinion prior to this school starting in Chicago did you have to go to the Vatican or Rome to study this stuff or you just had to kind of figure it out on your own so when I went to Rome it was at the North American college and I was able to speak to the Rector at the time and say my Bishop has appointed me in this role he told me why I was here he wanted me to uh kind of learn more I said what can you recommend and then he connected me with uh many people might be familiar with Father Gary Thomas priest in San Jose California so he entered he introduced me to Father Carmen he was already working with him and then father Carmine allowed me to begin shadowing with him as well and then father Gary has become a good friend and colleague over the years it's so important I think for exorcists to network with one another so that you know that you're not in this alone and even as a member of a president meaning a member of the the priests within your diocese when you deal with exorcisms on a daily basis that's really not something that a lot of other priests can understand yeah so coming together with other priests who do this you know for a sense of fraternity and collegiality ongoing study and formation you know there's there's always more for me to learn and know you know I never want to believe that I'm the expert in the room you know there are things that I can always continue to learn so what how do you do that how do you continue to learn like what are you reading or studying right now that's helping you grow in your knowledge of this so I just finished reading um Augustine's uh literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis okay you know what does that mean and Augustine was talking about when did God create the Angelic world and Augustine in these books says that you know you look at it and he goes it might be seen right there at the beginning of the book of Genesis when God said let there be light and he says light could be a reference to intellectual creatures you know so the angels but then the light is immediately divided into day and darkness but the division is not called good so Augustine said perhaps we can see the fall of the Angels God created them and gave them according to Aquinas evening knowledge the knowledge of things in the natural order and then God said with this knowledge I've given you will you now take it to the next level and complete your creation by uniting your Wills with mine and he called that morning knowledge based on the story of creation evening came and morning follow the new day so Angels received evening knowledge things in the natural order intellectual stuff and then God said take that and glorify me and Lucifer and one-third of the angel said no thank you and so they did not complete their creation and are considered to be inferior creatures two thousand years many priests and Saints and monks have written on uh spiritual warfare is there one particular book uh that you would I don't know not just recommend but um that people like yourself who are exorcists are glad exists like is there one book by a saint or by a homer that you think this this is terrific there's this there's so many have you heard of avagrius of pontus I was thinking of avagar as the pontus because he wrote the book talking back and it's based on the best way to defeat the Devil is to talk back to the devil with scripture with scripture because that's what Jesus did and you know Jesus is baptized and then he's driven by the spirit into the desert after 40 days the devil appears if you are the Son of God command these stones to turn to bread then Jesus says not by bread alone just Man live but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God and then the devil you know tries to quote scripture as well so Jesus defeats the Devil with the word of God so of agar is upontus you know he's a great little paperback book but gives the example if you know sacred scripture when you're being tempted then you can speak back with the word of God and in this book The Temptations he uses are based on the seven deadly sins and then he breaks them down into different scripture passages for each of the seven deadly sins as a way that we can defeat the Devil yeah it's very uh it's very revealing too because under each of these categories say uh let's say Pride or something he'll come up with you know a hundred or so thoughts that you might have he's an interesting character too because Savage was a priest yeah and he was in the Imperial Court in Constantinople and he fell in love with a married woman and he didn't know how to deal with these feelings so then he went to on a pilgrimage to the holy land where then he was sent into the desert and then out in the desert he confronted all of his Temptations and and then a bishop asked him if he could write you know responses to the seven deadly sins and then that's where we have the book talking back yeah I think it's in First Peter where he says you know I I beg you beloved as sojourners of this world to resist uh the passions of the flesh which wage war against your soul and I I find that so comforting because it sounds like having these passions wage war against our soul is just ordinary Christian Living and you can experience that war without having consented to it so talk to us about the difference between temptations that are perhaps very Troublesome and then consenting and then it becoming a sin sure because Temptations are not a sin Jesus himself was tempted but he teaches us how not to give into the temptation so to me the way that we resist a Temptation because again Temptations are real for all of us each and every day but is to grow in our in our faith so the more that we know I go back to the ordinary aspects of our of our faith as Catholics the more you're going to mass the more you're receiving the sacraments the more you're praying the more you're you know reading the Bible you're strengthening yourself it's putting on as Paul says in Ephesians the armor of Christ so you're strengthening yourself and even when the devil tempts you we should use that to our advantage but the devil only tempts Us in what he perceives to be areas of weakness in our life again that he can watch us and observe us but we can use that to our advantage if the devil has helped us to identify a weakness in our Spiritual armor then we know where we need to put in some more investment you know when an enemy is attacking they're going to size up their opponent and they're going to attack at what they perceive to be the weak point but then the opponent says wait a minute I need to fortify that position so we can take what the devil is doing to us and say oh thank you for pointing out my weakness now I know I need to fortify that area by maybe praying more or whatever it might be what do you say that because these exorcisms don't it's not a one and done often right it's over the series of months perhaps it really depends you know the the woman that was possessed with the uh the green eyes that session took 45 minutes and the demon was cast out wow I've worked with somebody for over a year now ultimately God will determine the time of departure in the old Rite of exorcism demons were you know commanded when are you going to leave what day and what time what sign that's not included in the new right I think the reason for that is that you know demons are liars so you can as an exorcist you can't really hang on the fact well the demon said he's going to leave on December the 7th at two o'clock in the afternoon because you're going to be looking forward to that date and then that might cause you to kind of put down your guard thinking well I don't really need to do anything more because I see the light at the end of the tunnel but to me yeah it's it's recognizing that you know demons are liars and it really should be focused on what God wants to do so God will determine the D the timing of when the demon will depart well since Damon's Ally is what can you trust of what they say or is it is the answer none of it like if a demon says uh you know people are possessed by reading this particular book or watching this particular movie why should we why should we pay attention to any of that we should be interested about the church teachers when demons are being interrogated though people will say but if the demon says something that's truthful how do you know it's truth or a lie or whatever what I've learned it's really the demeanor of the demon so when it says something kind of In Fear And trepidation it's probably stating the truth but when a demon is acting arrogant and cocky then it's kind of throwing out a lie yeah uh Maeve asks whilst watching The Chosen have you seen that show at all I've heard a lot about it but I've not watched it well we'll see this might be hard to answer then but uh this person was watching The Chosen with their kids and they asked her why we don't see people possessed like the scenes with Mary Magdalene in the same way today could The Exorcist speak about how the devil works in the modern world compared to thousands of years ago what it looks like and why it's not quite the same in everyday life and how this can be explained to kids I mean we've kind of addressed this three different times now it sounds like you're saying no no it's exactly the same as it is today yeah or at least but I think the thing is is that you think at the time of Jesus people that were possessed were kind of in the mainstream of society you know they could be found in the synagogues in places they're out in public today people that are dealing with demonic we kind of want to you know you know out of sight out of mind so to speak Tasha says what advice can you give a person regarding alternative medicine such as say straight chiropractors I mean we don't want to lump all these into the same category perhaps but acupuncture naturopathic uh alternative medicines can any of these be potential gateways for the demonic where can I find good information to back this up for example a friend recommended a chiropractor to me who does muscle testing where you wouldn't even have to be present as she uses her muscles to see how yours will react wow well wow by talking to you over the phone because I felt bad as she was writing this because I'm like oh come on let's not throw chiropractors under the bus I'm like oh you know this one deserves to be thrown under the bus perhaps you know that does sound a bit far-fetched yeah and that's the challenge is that there could be some people in these fields that are very legitimate who want to help people but then there could be people now who've completely taken it in a completely new and different direction that to me is not very good um and I would say that you know we shouldn't lump everybody together and again we should meet seeing the devil under every rock or around every corner that it's just not a healthy place no to be I'd say in that specific scenario I'd be more worried about just getting ripped off yeah just on the phone with someone that's right yeah I would too uh Philip says what practical things should Catholics be doing to protect themselves from the demonic I think I said this before we don't have to do anything extraordinary to defeat the Devil it's the very ordinary aspects of our Catholic faith so you know if we're praying you know you're praying the rosary you're going to mass and receiving the sacraments Eucharistic adoration reading the Bible you know again it's the ordinary things to keep the devil at Bay we just got a question from Connor who says how does an exorcist view the condition of anorexia is it strictly mental illness is there a demonic element to it how best can we help those Afflicted with anorexia my sister has been in and out of treatment since childhood she's now 28 and struggling again God bless her there may be a holistic approach it's hard to know in these situations if there is a demonic component but obviously with a person going to see a medical doctor is very important but again somebody that's struggling should also be receiving pastoral care from the church you know like for his sisters is she receiving the sacrament of the anointing of the sick for example so it shouldn't just be that it's either spiritual or mental or physical part of the holistic approach would be to say yeah go see your doctor but also talk to the priest you know look at it in many different angles because the overriding goal should be to bring some type of relief into the life of the person who is suffering yeah yeah so it's a really good point just because you're suffering some mental Affliction it doesn't mean you're not being harassed by a demon or yeah because you know the demon may not be the cause of all of our problems but he's an opportunist so he could take advantage of situations as a way to advance and further his own kingdom yeah father we had um somebody on the show recently who was a fan of Harry Potter and then someone in the comments said that they they referred to you and others exorcists as saying oh they say don't uh watch Harry Potter because it has real spells in it or something to that end which I don't think is true I don't think they are real spells usually when it comes to Harry Potter what I like to do is respond with another question so when parents say their children are reading these books for example I always say which book does your child know better Harry Potter or the Bible and if the answer is Harry Potter to me that's the problem because then the child is not able to read this book and filter it through their own Catholic beliefs that are shaped by the word of God because the danger then would be a child is reading the book and begins to see magic as something that's good placing spells on people is something good and to me that's the danger is that it leads children to believe that evil is a good did you see some of these protests around the overturning of Roe versus Wade people were drenching themselves in blood they were kind of carrying around decapitated babies heads and things like this all under the guise of protesting and it's very difficult to see that and not just go okay if this isn't demonic I don't know what's demonic I think a lot of the problems we we see in society today are are rooted in the Sin of abortion the destruction of human life God's greatest creation you know if children are disposable from the womb why should we be surprised when there's people exploiting and abusing children yeah to me they just go hand in hand with one another we don't want to believe that but to me there's all kinds of collateral damage when we start to believe that human life from the very first moments is Expendable what about transgenderism too the insanity being pushed on us I mean did yeah I think you know to me what's really crazy about that there may be people out there that struggle and are trying to figure out who they are yeah but I had there's a lady that reached out to me who said that her son had broken up with his girlfriend and you know he was kind of traumatized by all that and was suicidal and went to counseling and the counselor told this young man that maybe if he transitioned became a woman he would become he would feel better shame on him that wasn't anything to do with his issue so it does seem to me that there may be people that struggle with their sexual identity or whatever that's one category but it seems now that it's trying to be broadened yeah to include so many different people and again if the human person is God's greatest creation and we're starting to lose the identity of what it means to be human I think it was the second of Vatican Council that said when uh somewhere when God is forgotten the creature itself becomes unintelligible yep yep absolutely a second Vatican Council right yeah so in order for us to become intelligible again we ought to look back to God good well thank you so much for making it down and being on the show do you I mean you have so many people reaching out to you looking for advice it would seem like it might be a good idea if you had a place online that they could just go to and get quicker answers do you have anything like that I do it's just a an email address I don't use I don't use social media or any of those other platforms good for you I just have a it's exorcism Ministry at gmail.com you're not afraid to give that out exorcism.com I get 10 a day as it is now and and uh I have some people that help me so I have an exorcism team that will help and uh even though we may not help people directly we indirectly help people by saying well this is what you should do or maybe I share prayers for people that they can begin to utilize to me even when it comes to you know people sometimes will ask me about Deliverance prayers to me Deliverance prayers are like a prescription you may need them for a period of time yeah but they don't necessarily need to become a daily part of your prayer routine you know you may need them to intensify you know your spirituality because you're really under attack now so you use them but then go back to some of the basics you know Eucharistic adoration pray in the Rosary Chapel of Divine Mercy again whatever those ordinary aspects but we don't because I think sometimes too that Deliverance prayers can cause some people to focus so much on the Demonic that they begin to see the devil everywhere and I don't think again that's a healthy place to be so we probably have people watching right now who may feel very much under attack they may believe themselves to be um possessed rightly or wrongly could you lead us in a prayer uh so that maybe those who are watching this all around the world might be able to pray along with you absolutely yeah and again I think that's important is that anytime we feel like we're being attacked we turn to God and we call on God and the power of the Holy Spirit again wherever the holy spirit is present and unclean Spirit cannot remain and I think sometimes the person of the holy spirit in the trinity is the least forgotten but you know we think of God the father but again Jesus promised that the spirit would be with us always so to me we really need to awaken to the presence of the Holy Spirit In Our Lives goes back to that exorcism when I did the insufflation and breathe on the face of the person who was possessed and the demon literally was flung away couldn't even be present there and then that's what caused the demon to be expelled yeah let's pray in the name of the Father the Son and holy spirit amen loving God we just ask that you would be with all of us and all of our listeners today to awaken the importance of really living out our relationship with you to recognize the power of the Holy Spirit In Our Lives to also recognize that we should never place the devil on the same level with you recognizing that you are the Creator and no creature can ever be equal to you helpeth to be mindful of your presence in our lives help us to live out our commitment to you in the life of the church through mass and prayer and the sacraments of the church and through reading your holy word recognizing and all of these things we have the best offense to defeat whatever attacks the devil may be sending our way and invoking our Blessed Mother recognizing that she is the most powerful Ally for anyone under the influence of the Demonic attacks we say Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death amen the name of the Father the Son and holy spirit amen father lampet thanks for that thanks for your time it's my pleasure

Channel: Pints With Aquinas

Views: 1,082,501

Keywords: aquinas, catholicism, catholic, pints with aquinas, matt fradd, theology, debate, religion, st. thomas aquinas, thomas aquinas, philosophy

Id: mX7L68p9exk

Length: 110min 38sec (6638 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 31 2023