Fr. Douglas Lorig: An Episcopal Priest Who Became A Catholic Priest - The Journey Home (11-24-2008)

good evening and welcome to the journey home my name is Marcus Grodi your host for this program each week I have the privilege of introducing to you men and women who often completely contrary to what they thought they were called to do in their life they were their hearts were open to the Catholic faith and they came home there's a just read this morning a psalm about you know the the plans of man are a whole lot different than the plans of God and sometimes that's the the joy that our guests are here to share with you is their discovery of the fullness of the Catholic faith and our guest tonight is father Doug Lord former Episcopal priest he's here to tell his story it's a great pleasure to have him join us but I want to remind you that you are an essential part of this program so if you'd like to call give father Doug a question you might have about his own journey or about the Catholic faith you can do that at one eight hundred two two one nine four six o or if you're outside North America you can call us at 2:05 two seven one twenty nine eighty or you can send us an email at journey home at ewtn.com father Doug welcome to the journey home and sumer it's you know I I'm amazed we've been doing this program now 11 years and at first I had no idea who continued doing this program for so long and it's been a blessing of the Holy Spirit bringing so many people back to the Catholic Church but it always cracks me up sometimes when I run into somebody who's been a Catholic a long time and can't believe it's taken 11 years to get you on the program but it's it's great to have you here good to be her father so I always begin the program by inviting two guests to take a long step back and let us deal a bit of a summary of where you came from spiritually before you ever thought about the Catholic faith like you I was raised Lutheran my mother was Methodist and my father was Lutheran so when I came along I was the first boy I was baptized Methodist which is still my baptism it took and then my mother joined my father in the Lutheran Church and as I was raised in a very evangelical Bible based Church with faith and it was Missouri Senate Lutheran which is very strong in the real presence so I never had a time when you Crist was I get where I never doubted you know that it's uh if their version of it but nevertheless I was this was the blood of Christ you know so and wonderful foundation then I went off to boys high school Lutheran Boys High School in st. Paul Minnesota which was also very wonderful experience and but I was still longing to be Catholic for probably from the time I was about 10 I always had these thoughts about Mary you know and but I couldn't ever explain why and I didn't tell anybody and maybe for our audience as a Lutheran Mary was not know we came out at Christmas in the crash that was it and or maybe in the windows you might have you might have a scene of the Annunciation or something in the church windows but no she's not you know she's honored but she's not prayed to so I developed a habit of going on a Saturday pilgrimage in from the Lutheran Boys High School very conservative evangelical lutheran too I take the Selby Lake bus and go down to st. Paul Cathedral and I would go in the Cathedral and you know it had all these wonderful altars and they all had candles I didn't know you had to pay for him so I'm lighting candles I think they lost money all through those years and but everybody was praying but was it worth the contribution but there was when John Ireland built that cathedral he put the statues of the Saints of different countries or where the immigrants had come from and so I was wonderful but I always ended up in the Mary Chapel and and he has a big statue of Mary holding the baby Jesus out like this toward the worshiper I'd like candles in there and then I'd pray if I found a rosary I try to pray it but I didn't know how I was about 16 and I would say probably every two or three Saturday's for two years three years that's what I did and then I would walk down the hill to Assumption Church and I would go in there and do the same but there weren't so many Saints in there there was on the left side in the front was mother perpetual health and all I've talked to her and then right here was a statue about this big of pious attempt I called him Pius X I didn't know what that was supposed to be ten but I talked to him and I would I was gonna say I'm wondering this doesn't sound like a usual Luther and oh not a Luther League type thing you do on the week oh no not at all I mean did your family or any your friends I didn't tell anybody oh I just went I felt called and then I would go across the street from there to Mickey's diner which is a historic diner there and where they insult you and I would have a cheeseburger and french fries and a coke and then I go back to school other weekends I'd hitchhike home to my family and so that's where it really began was that st. Paul Cathedral without anybody knowing it and many years later 50 years later icon celebrated Holy Mass on the altar of st. Paul's Cathedral with Archbishop Harry Flynn where he ordained a young man that I sponsored for the priesthood for the diocese Minnesota or and I got to vest him and then walk down the hill the next day and preach his the homily to his first mass in Assumption Church it's almost like this big circle came around yeah but that's where it started and it started with Mary and then after that I just wanted more of Catholic but my mom and dad they're both dead now god bless them there they were very against the Catholic Church now if you remember in the 40s and 50s what it was like yeah and you were your side was going to heaven the rest there was for them a candle is burning you know they're not and usually didn't visit no churches if you went there for weddings yeah and you could kind of stare and see what they did but no it didn't you didn't convert and so I became Episcopal and served the Episcopal Church as a priest for seven years do you I'm curious at what point did you desert us a call to to ministry was it very young very young at probably nine ten years old how I really felt God wanted me to work for him I mean it wasn't more sophisticated than that and then I became Episcopal and and served as the Episcopal pastor of a church in Minnesota wonderful people I mean just wonderful very basic and then went to Arizona and served there for four years in a border town Mexican American border in but a smaller church much smaller and wonderful people again it was should have satisfied me but it didn't now you were serving then we're talking 35 years ago right so you were serving as gonna Fisk appealing for a lot of them more contemporary confusion I was I wasn't the toward the end of my time as an Episcopal priest the first women were ordained as a result of the convention in Minneapolis that voted to approve ordaining women to the Episcopal priesthood and when I left Nogales to become a Catholic one or two women one or two priests after me were both went were were women and so I didn't know how I felt about that I didn't feel it was right because as an Episcopalian I felt we were taught there were three Catholic bodies in the world Orthodox Roman and Episcopal and Catholics don't like us to say that but that's what we believe I think can radiate believed it to and so but Neumann was trying to prove yes yes exactly so anyway but that was a watershed at that time there was a lot it was a really lot I know I'd had father Graham Leonard on our program here former Bishop of London and that was one of the watersheds for him not so much specifically the question of ordination of women but more the issue of the authority to do that yes where were you getting that a vote shouldn't do it if you're Catholic in your mentality well then God bless them but I didn't run away from something I wasn't fleeing from the cow from the Episcopal Church because it didn't me I was running to something I really was Marcus it's a I was gonna say the reason I brought that question up because that and for many of the Pisgah patents today it's a different issue I mean there's so many things yeah that in many ways it's hard for them to even discern not running away from something because there's so much confusion and division right now suffering they feel betrayed need to pray for our brothers our sisters we did this component and Anglicans it's a difficult time but you were looking back I mean your father ray Ryland is a good friend of it's about you he came into the church in the 60s when he was Episcopalian so me that's that's a time period when it wasn't so much running away from issues though Lambeth had made a decision back in the 30s which was not necessary a good decision but still that wasn't the issue is that you were happy in your pastor yes very but this Mary thing was this Mary that the spark this Mary thing yes tell us about that is that the spark then I got you that was a start okay I used to sit on the hillside outside the rectory in nogales desert high desert a couple thousand feet and I had we were way out in the country you know out in a like a country club area so it was very quiet and I'd stood up and I just stare off at the mountains I talked to God and I just say to him I have to be carefully I have to be I was not certain about the Eucharist I knew the Catholic Eucharist was Christ I had that conviction like you know the sun's gonna come up every day we don't think about that I knew the Catholic Mass had Jesus Christ I wasn't sure about my Episcopal Mass I knew it had grace I mean I was evident they had grace yeah but I wasn't certain about the real presence and the quality of it and whatever you want to say that theologically and I I wrestled with that I struggled on sat outside for hours and how do I do this I had four children my wife I'm a married priests one of the pastoral provision priests and I I had four small children twin daughters and a new baby and a boy five and how do I leave my parish with my car allowance insurance really good insurance a house and a small salary and go to the Catholic Church where there's no guarantee of anything at the time but you were considering this was before there was no pastor provision hadn't been considered yet so it wasn't even a possibility said to me honey you you're not going to be able to be a priest in the Catholic Church I agree I'll go with you but you'll never be a priest and I said yes I will and she said how do you know that and I said married would never let me do this or draw me to this if she was intending to drop me into the center of this huge a sure Russia I can't be anything but a priest I mean it's not possible it's uh I was called so strongly for so long so um finally some people in Phoenix wanted us to house-sit for them he had a swimming pool in Arizona that's premium so we took the kids we went to Phoenix from Nogales we watched their house and we made up our minds we're gonna do this so I went to we went we went to the Byzantine Catholic Church in Phoenix now because they had married priests there an old one the last 'got through before was stopped and his wife they called him honey madam so I thought well Nancy won't be as a problem of a problem for those people so we went to st. Stephen's Byzantine Catholic Church and it started and talked to the pastor there and we're thinking of converting and we'd like to come to church here and we don't know what to do for jobs and he said call the school office at the diocese we hadn't converted again so I did and the she said well you know in two weeks school starts three weeks three weeks school starts and we have two jobs open there are st. Mark's in the inner city and forget there fast enough you might get an interview so we drove right over there and well if we came in the gate which was right next to the side door of the church you know the gave the school a nun came out of the church she just stopped in her tracks she looked at us and she said you teachers and Nancy said yes well she is and I have a degree but you know never taught in my life and so she say the pulpit yes yes she said you're hired but you know that would give superintendent schools nightmares and I said what she said yes yes yes I've been in the church praying and I beg God to send two teachers to me because I don't have them and I need them now and I come out and there you are so you know I ride away I know who's been busy taking care of us she did hire us she had we've laid our papers out for her when they when we time came and I taught sixth grade and Nancy taught third and for four years until they closed that school so we went back to Nogales I announced to my congregation I love them but I have to be Catholic they didn't like it they were very attached to me and I to them but we had been good for each other and it was time so we got a u-haul I notified the diocese that I was resigning and that I would in a letter I would renounce my Anglican orders with a gulp and they have you because then it's mr. lorring again there you are now father Doug again yeah and we did we did that we loaded the kids in the car three-year-old twin girls and uh three or four month-old boy and a five-year-old boy and we drove with no money to Phoenix and the school salary was five hundred dollars each per month and only for nine months and no insurance and no benefits of any kind you know I any other woman in the world would a turnaround going right back to Nogales and beg for my job back and she didn't we bucked up and we went to the neighborhood around the school which is a very high crime neighborhood it had the women's prison is just to the east and state hospitals to the west the Garfield gang controls the north part of where I lived and the south was the prostitution row along bream Buren Avenue just a block away and for 275 a month we got we were able to rent an apartment a block from a school but it's for a lot of the pimps and prostitutes lived and guns went off all night long and I got these little kids but I have no money and so we taught about I probably made I would say six months and I'm trying to learn we're talking earlier before they started talking about you trying to learn to read the bravery because it's a little hard to do with Protestants we didn't have that right so here I am early in the morning before school dances getting the kids ready upstairs to take to daycare and then she and I are gonna go to school so I got my briefing out I'm not even - I was a deacon by then I was a deacon and I'm trying to read the bravery and I'm fussing in my mind about the safety of my children I mean I'm a little white kid that grew up in a you know a farming town in Minnesota I've never I'm not streetwise about anything so I was scared and I'm reading my bravery and trying to be brave and I heard honest-to-god Marcus I heard Doug don't fret I have something for you and I turn around and is my picture of Mary behind me and I pictures don't talk and so I I thought well maybe she does you know what so I got to school I walked in the office and the secretary said mr. lorry I have something for you so I stopped in my tracks and went right over to her and I said what she said you have to call my uncle I hadn't complained to anybody about where we lived and I said why and she said you'll find out so I call this guy's name is Joe stark and we call him Uncle Joe after that but he said mr. lorry and I said yes he said you got those little kids in that neighborhood it said yes and he said it's not safe for them and I said tell me about it he said I have a nice six year old house in Tempe with a big backyard and I said I I said I can't afford them he said how much rent are you paying and I said two hundred seventy-five dollars a month and he said that's the rent I know his mortgage payments are three times out and so we moved and once again she's there rescuing me and and taking care of us so then we taught school therefore we taught the school there for four years then the I was good to say this because going from being an Episcopal priest preaching on Sunday to teaching what great that's a trip I mean that in itself is a have you ever been locked in a classroom at 35 sixth graders and at Christmastime puberty strikes and so the whole spring is just it's insane then we're wonderful but it's but it reminds me of when I and you know we you you also work with clergy who are on the journey and I do that's but just this morning I was reading that statement verses of any man would come after me let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me you have to do that I mean that's what it requires and it's those that don't want to do that that don't make the jump they never find the gold lamé how did your congregation take that that's another question before we move on well they called me back to do some funerals and I got permission from the bishop to do one I mean they didn't like letting go did any of them understand yes I think I think several did but most most they felt that well that was me if that's what he wants okay they were very kind they were going to close that church when I got there they were going to shut it down because they had had in 75 years twenty-five pastors and the reason yes that priest on when I talked to he said you're gonna go to Nogales and I said yes he said they want to close app you should let him he said they eat priest for breakfast down there and so they were only thirty families left they had argued themselves into into just almost autos awful and so when I got there I went out on the patio and I drew two tablets of stone like Moses you know two tablets on plywood and then I cut them out you know with the letters this is my commandment on this one that you love one another I took concrete nails of the slump block church and I nailed them one on each side of the sanctuary and I said if you can do that they won't close your church I'll stay and your pastor and get this place to where it's and the next priest stayed for I don't know ten twelve years and then after that they've only had nine and three in the thirty years so they broke their cycle and and I think they were grateful that I had I had been willing to do that with them but on the other hand how do you when the Lord sends you then he provides everything yeah yeah doesn't make it easy but it makes it doable well then I was going to say that even though I mean it's really hard for us to expect our congregations to understand completely we've done reading we've done praying we've done studying and then there's the grace of understanding and then you know so all we can do is give them and help them tell them why we've made the decision and then leave that up to go yes oh yes there are many complications yeah my dad disinherited me when I became Catholic my mother said we know you're still good in your heart and it took I think 14 years well my sister finally got them to come to my church in Gilbert to Mass and they all sat and right down the front 14 years I mean we talked which was never talked about religion and they resolved it but it took that long you know that's kind of heart-wrenching and my sister was always very supportive and kind you know she's wonderful I'm about parents really took this hard and then you have to keep moving you can't look back if you decide you're gonna find the fullness of faith you can't look back when we were only well maybe we were three weeks teaching and we went to the Basilica because our Vicariate of schools was gonna be be there for the bishop bishop james roche and he i hadn't contacted him he knew I was the diocese I'm sure you knew that and it comes in the Basilica for this mass and of course it's packed with kids and their teachers I've way in the back and I'm wearing a guayabera which is a Mexican wedding shirt because it has pockets in it and teachers can put all kinds of things in it and he got up the altar and he's looking around like that and he looked he finally looked saw me he's know all the teachers in the diocese he kept staring back in that corner I was so uncomfortable and so in those days I still smoke cigarettes and so as soon as this mass was over I headed for the front of the church you know that steps out in front to have a cigarette I was so nervous about all this and the aides stayed with my class and around the corner he comes with his vestments wrapped around his arm flying in the wind and he stopped me pointing at me and he said you oh he said the Holy Spirit told me you're a priest and I am to take care of you I swear I swear to God I just my mouth opened and I said you don't know me and he said yes I do you come and see me so I made an appointment and I went and I said is that true does that what happen he said that was exactly what happened when I came in the church door there's a priest here and you have to take care of him he said I knew you were in the diocese but I didn't know you and he did he did and when I went to see him he said he said done you don't know this but I'm gonna be able to retain you a priest someday and I thought to myself oh I can tell me I'll see you see and I said how is that possible well he said the some Episcopal priest some of the married had gone to Paul 6 and Cardinal see per the prefect had the job that Cardinal Ratzinger had before I became Pope and asked if they could be Catholic priests and live out their life as priests and he said yes but he said we'll wait and see / said yes but we'll wait that's what Rome does his weight and then they died and eventually it came around to John Paul and he approved it and his his qualification was the American bishops must vote in two successive May meetings in favor of allowing Episcopal priest to live out their life as Catholic priests married or celibate and so they did vote and it was only a short time before before I I wasn't well we converted in August and the abode of the May before and then he said they're gonna vote the next May and he said it's gonna pass and I said why and he said because the bishops that were against it went to Rome and lobbied and made the other bishops mad that they went out of house so they are going to you know how politics works they are going to vote in favor they did and so in July he ordained me a deacon and the process began of a long five-year wade to my ordination as a priest in 1984 by another bishop yet were you teaching during that entire time yes okay well I was teaching I was teaching at seton High School theology for all four grades oh I had you know I had taught all four over the period of time then it was there but then they had a Mexican mission in Queen Creek a later while Lupe and they didn't have a priest and nobody was going out there I mean it was bad and so the committee came to see me as soon as I was a priest would you would you come on and say Mass for us I said I don't speak Spanish it doesn't matter we'll teach you to read it and I said I said okay so I asked permission from the bishop and he gave me permission I started doing that eventually Bishop assigned me as administrator for that little mission and we built them a new church and then he asked me we're skipping way ahead but he asked me would I become sister of st. Anne in Gilbert which was 1,100 families and I said I'm not allowed I'm a married priest and they don't put married priests and pastoral positions and he said well we bishop has had our henna lawyers look at your Rhys from Rome and there's nothing preventing it there's no written instruction so he said I'm going to do it so I said okay and not eleven hundred families Gilbert became the fastest-growing town in the United States so I ended up with nine thousand registered families and fourteen years the largest Catholic Church in the United States as far as I know and I when miserable instead came I went into some I said I said I'm the married guy and I've got your biggest Church you wanted back you said are you happy there and I said yes I'm happy he said well that's fine but I eventually did two years later I at 70 years old I decided I'd better get something smaller and why not Saint Maria Goretti in Scottsdale and I love it you know the the thing that strikes me having been a pastor that celebrated the Lord's Supper as a presbyterian and then tried to imagine the privilege of celebrating the sacrament as a Catholic priests I mean you were in it an Episcopalian and as you said they were the part of the issue there is I mean that the thirty-nine article says one thing yes okay so and there's the written law of the church but yet people interpret it all over the place high low and middle yes it's all over but I'm wondering talk a bit about when you were then given the great privilege of celebrating the Catholic Mass as a Catholic priest the whole dimension changed because for me as a Protestant as an Episcopal priest it was a communion service you consecrate bread and wine and you received people receive communion but carefully took a sacrifice when I say those words this is my body the body of Christ on the cross that same one drained of its blood is made press right here on this dish and I look at that every time I celebrate the sacrifice I look at that and I say to myself right from the cross to this patent so we can offer you to the Father that's theologically exact and the same thing the blood of Christ poured out all of it poured out so that they were separated that's the emulation right here in this cup and then in the words that follow which I wish were there more of them then I offer this holy and living sacrifice to the Father for my sins and those of everybody else that's not Episcopal nor Presbyterian oh no Baptist Catholic and Orthodox that's it yeah that's it on the whole planet Catholic and Orthodox and that's awesome because because the infinite value of every Mass you celebrate is what a mystery yeah you know if you can't get lost in that you're hopeless honest to god it's as after four years I had the first thing they did was send me to a seminary so that I could be tested and they were always tested very briefly with sixteen other fifteen others and by theologians eight of them from the Catholic University and in all these disciplines you know theology Vatican to church history Canon Law sore foot and then they gave us a book list go study when you think you can do it we'll send the test your Bishop and you take it and so about a couple of years I did that and the test was about three and a half hours long like comprehensives for a master's degree and then I passed out and then they had me go back to the seminary and each of these theologians had if they wanted it two hours at me each in oral examination trial Oh golly it was something but I got through all that and so finally I was certified by all of them to Bishop O'Brien my bishop at the time because Bishop Roush died for a nation so I thought oh it's been four years but it's worth it I'm gonna be ordained so Bishop calls me and he says Doug I decided I don't know if I'm gonna retain you or not was this a knife went right straight into my heart here he inherited me and he said I don't know I'm gonna put your dossier in the bottom drawer of my desk for one year I just like okay take up your cross and follow me you know you're gonna meet it if you don't meet the cross your walks not authentic so I I felt that I felt that well we'll get through this and a few days later a young priest all a Byzantine priest all crippled up with arthritis and stuff called me and he said my aunt left me some money and I'm gonna go to Mexico City to beg the version of what a loopy they helped me conform my self to what God look to the will of God and I have to have somebody help me around the city up steps and in and out of cabs if you go I'll pay your way well I was a highly heavy heart and I I know I have not kept her picture in my house ever since I was in Nogales so I I said or I'll go so we got down there we got into the Basilica which is awesome to begin with and he said now meet you in two hours this is all on the level I can walk I'm gonna go pray so I looked up at her tilma on oh my I got up to the front pew and sat down and I started sobbing from someplace deeper than I can reach I mean it was in the deep center of self where you can't even look I mean I can't even look there it was coming from way down like I like I like from a Fountainhead and I sobbed until I need a paper toweling to blow my nose and I just I and I tattled on the bishop I said he's put in a bottom drawer mother and what am I gonna do he may never ordain me and then I I said you know what if you will see to my ordination I will serve you wherever you want the rest of your my life and then I stopped sobbing then I felt okay she's got it it's in her court so a year later Bishop pub and I was dreading that call and he said don't I'd changed my mind and I did send your dossier in and I'm ready to ordain you now it should have been the year after that but he sent it in gee I wonder how he came around it'll do that and and he said I've got two dates and I know priests like to be ordained and their mother's birthday or their birthday or some day that means something to them but I'm not gonna do that I've got two dates that's it I said I'll take the soonest one and he's a wonderful to me he was wonderful to me and so he said no no I've got confirmations that day see he said it's gotta be June 15th well June 15th was a day I was sobbing to her in Mexico City so she took me up on it so I've worked for her ever since all right let's take a break here okay let's come back a little bit more questions for father Doug it seemed bit welcome back to the journey home our guest tonight is father Doug lorg and he's a former Episcopal priest shared his journey thank you know now Catholic priest Father I do look would like to mention you have a website in case others would like to know about more about what you do I know you have some tapes and and such what's your website the parish website it's Saint Maria Goretti so it's sm g arizona AZ dot org all right very simple all right very good thank you we've got a couple emails and a couple of phone calls let's take this first emails comes from Ted in Kentucky LaMarcus and father another great program many non Catholics do not understand the relationship of our traditions with Jesus Christ they think the sacraments are separate from Christ did you ever doubt tradition uh yes and no you know I doubted what I didn't understand I wandered into a Catholic Church in st. Paul another one yeah because and I went to that one mostly because I like the smell of the incense so they have in that church you know and ever you went in and always smelled incense and I found a pamphlet that had a monstrance on it I talked about Eucharist I'd never heard that word and I looked at that and I thought oh my goodness now that's tradition and and and but more recent but still and I didn't I doubted it I thought you can't put a Jesus in this thing but now I spend a lot of time in front of Jesus and that thing yeah you know we don't a rose doesn't open in one flash nobody becomes Catholic in a heartbeat it takes years yeah we enter into that the traditions of the church and we start looking back and we find out they're rooted in apostolic times they go way back you know we were talking a minute ago about the scripture and its roots it was the Orthodox bishops in the East while all one church then and in the West a few years earlier maybe five six years earlier chose which of the books were canonical they asked the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit helped them and they rejected like 2530 others and that's tradition the Protestants have the Bible because of us and we had we live by tradition before we ever had a word of Scripture written in the New Testament that whole beginning of the Apostolic times there was no written scripture apart in the Old Testament yeah there were these letters with the others so you mentioned floating around being read exactly in Mass exactly but Clement was read and mass and the dedicate was read and math and the protoevangelium you know you know where we get the name for Joachim and Anne you know st. Anne well it's not in the Bible no it isn't it's in a book that is good for reading but not for doctrine you know but we still call her Anne as a Lutheran especially a Missouri Synod Lutheran obviously Luther that kind of threw out the idea that that tradition is trustworthy okay scripture alone mm-hmm but you've got the Missouri Synod the Wisconsin Synod the ELCA now which used to be the LC LC the American the Yale I mean excuse me aren't those four different traditions actually yes they are from different countries the Norwegians was another one yes yes the Missouri Synod they're wonderful you know they came here to Perry County Missouri they forged a fellowship for their community in this country and have stayed faithfully with it it just wasn't for me but they were but they wouldn't have I know that when I was brought up Lutheran and then later as a Presbyterian I should corrugations than Presbyterian I never thought about what we believed as our tradition I believed that I was following Scripture yes yes yes of course of course because the pastor said so I asked one time my Lutheran pastor I said the Bible says that when somebody is sick they should call the elders and they would anoint them with oil and I I this when I was in confirmation class and confirmed at 12 and I said the Catholics anoint the sick with oil why don't we he said oh no that was just something they did for medicinal purposes in those days and I thought wait a minute that's the book of James and it's talking about calling the elders and this is a religious ritual why don't we have it bothered me it bothered me well that's what often happens is once you get the knee-jerk answer then it's it's solved you know you're saying okay that was this so deal with it anymore yeah you know without an authority really to find that I mean that's why there's so many divided the Lutheran's are divided the Presbyterians there are so many divisions and really not just I mean it was traditions mm-hmm so they've thrown out one tradition and ended up with thousands of others as it said is the sad fact of what we've encountered okay let's go to our first call James from Florida how old James what's your question the turn Church of England Episcopalian and Anglican Church can are they used interchangeably actually they are actually they are in England the church is called the Anglican Church in Ireland that's cause the Church of Ireland Saint Church in United States that's called the Episcopal Church I don't know what it's called in other countries but it's the same worldwide Anglican Communion and they they they developed a relationship with each other when you see the term Episcopal and somebody says well I'm not Episcopalian I'm Anglican that may mean angle Catholic which is Episcopalian but with Mary and the Saints and incense and vestments and so forth but the same bishop as the low church somebody explained it to me the Episcopal had three levels high low and middle the high soul seeks the highway the low soul seeks the low well in between a misty flats the rest drip to in front and you know because the middle is the really liberal body of Anglet of Episcopalians or Anglicans but now that's changed because some many Episcopalians have looked for communal attachment to the Catholic world through Anglican bishops in Argentina and Africa where they are more anglo-catholic in their orientation so they are Anglicans they're attached to to Anglican ISM so yes they're all interchangeable with that understanding and maybe just something point out that up until the American Revolution any Anglicans in America were Church of England and then something happened and when America was more connected to England something had to change and that's when the Episcopal Church I had to establish itself independent of the Church of England at what point eventually though they they reunited in a sense with the Archbishop of Canterbury yes Book of Common Prayer was a compromise where all these levels had one prayer book okay but with three different understandings yeah yeah those the words still causes that big problem for it does today it does all right let's see it's gonna call or Kathy from Massachusetts hello what's your question for us tonight hi Marcus thank you for the beautiful show father Doug I wanted to ask you as a married priest which is not that common yet you have been blessed with a wonderful holy spouse it sounds like in a family who supports your ministry what is your understanding now of celibacy and the Roman Catholic priesthood and your appreciation for it or your thoughts on that because I highly prized the priests I know who are living a holy celibacy can you can you share your thoughts on that father I sure can I have very strong feelings about that I think a priest who lives his priestly life in full celibate commitment has to put courage and joy into the Lord's heart I doubt having said that to hide behind celibacy and live in a moral life which we have now discovered many do or have I have no respect for that none I mean zero the clergy abuse things that we've had to go through in this country in other countries is for me the hardest test that I had to endure being Catholic I went through agony trying to resolve it of how we could require celibacy and allow that which denies it we had a tradition of married priests in the Catholic Church for many centuries and I don't know if the Holy Spirit want us to go back to that I don't have that kind of wisdom and I don't think anybody else does if he decides to return to that who's gonna stop him if he decides not to who could possibly do it so I feel that that's up to heaven but I have many many very wonderful close priestly friends very close who live there a celibate life with resolve and they bring joy to God I know they do yeah and maybe make sure we make sure all these doesn't misunderstand is the fact that the church is a lot of the past provision in no way challenges that there's commitment to celibacy of no that's not the that's not the issue in fact I don't know of any married Catholic priests and there's only 100 or so now or maybe under 50 that aren't 100% committed both to the Church's position on celibacy that's right as well as recognizing the value in the beauty of that as you said that's absolutely but you know many want to say that well we wouldn't had this scandal if there wouldn't have been celibacy yes it would well that's the point that's not that wasn't the reason or the because I do know it has always make the newspapers but I know that amongst our separated brethren that scandal also exists amongst married Minister yes oh that's right we went through a difficult time with a as our holy father said it was an issue of faith mm-hmm that's the issue absolutely not the issue of celibacy's issue of faith and living out your calling in life that's right that's the real point of that discipline of celibacy is very important to the Catholic Church miry script - giving my bishop permission to our day me to the Catholic Church a priest to the Catholic Church it was in Latin and it the only thing that was in and about my being married who has one line it said in this man's case the discipline of celibacy is set aside so that he can pass to ordination that was it that was Cardinal Ratzinger who has now Pope signed my papers and that's all I've said but the discipline of celibacy is the discipline of the Latin Church and it's there for a reason the the sacrament of Holy Orders and the sacrament of marriage are not mutually exclusive sacraments the church has always said that orthodoxy our other part has always had them in combination at least for those who willed it it's not mutually exclusive but in the Latin Church we don't do it it's our choice our discipline and it has benefitted the church so thank you our next caller Elizabeth from Michigan hello what's your question for us tonight well I've had nudging to come to the church for many years and they've really come to a head lately I'd like to make the switch but I just don't know who to contact you know where do I go what do I ask let me first tell you about it first of all you're calling the right place EWTN I mean there's lots of resources for you here you deputy n.com you also notice on the website and the television screen from time to time you see the coming on network international mentioned and the reason we exist is to help people who are on the journey answer some questions and and especially clergy is particularly we work with Elizabeth you can give the coming on network a call or go to our website to find out information how long father I mean really the at the local level is really that you find a parish by the parish and go talk to walk and walk in walk to the secretary and say I wanna talk to the RSC I a director are CIA and that stands for the person who is going to give instructions to adults and sit down to talk with that person more likely it'll be a woman an educator in our faith and have a conversation with her and just get to know her and see where that takes you but that's the first the very first step and you know something else I'd like to say is I know that when I was beginning my own journey I felt very uncomfortable in a Catholic Church firstly I didn't know what was going on because it's so radically different in many ways but I had this feeling like I wasn't welcome which is I was wrong because I was very much welcomed and we want to encourage anyone if you're exploring I mean you're not to receive the Eucharist yet there's reasons for that because you're not you haven't arrived yet and you're understanding you haven't committed yourself you know giving up your need taking up your cross and become a member of the family but to experience the reality of Christ's presence is something that I would encourage you to do and then you know even though you may not completely understand it yet right father I mean we journey a toward understanding that's right that's right I've often said in this program that for many for many converts who have been outside the church most of their life and come in later in life that old prayer you know I believe help my unbelief yes it takes a long time to work through issues and sometimes a lifetime to fully appreciate something like the Eucharist and its fullness you never know where you're gonna learn that lesson either I used to go I've been probably half a dozen times to Rome and I go into Saint Peter's Basilica and it's you know it's these big monuments and it looks like it's all the money they spent on all this marble and like human glory and you're the first impression of it but then I went to the catacombs one time and they were talking about the martyrdom of an early Bishop and his four deacons for their faith and I sat there and I said these are the ones memorialize these are the heroes that held things together when the world was falling apart and this is my church my Trish didn't start 30 years ago you know my church is in the catacombs these are my predecessors it was just like it struck that when I send me a journey toward understanding our faith that's exactly what I mean heaven has a way of teaching you in the events like that lesson that you needed and wouldn't have gotten it from my book the other thing that I remember is a really radical different thing between our Lutheran and Protestant background is that the emphasis was so much on individualistic salvation me and Jesus or as a Catholic it was on being a part of the body very much anyway journey together it takes a long time to appreciate a lot of stuff a week journey together for our caller that you know it isn't just you and Jesus trying to struggle it out and Lord what are you trying to call me and become a part of the family a part of the body of Christ that's the baptism we become a part of the of the body of Christ and especially if you're already baptized you're living up your calling from that baptismal grace as you received now coming alive in your life father let's assume that there's some folk out there watching then or right now where you were yourself as some of the same questions would you like to say to them to encourage them to make the same journey home that you made well I would create but I would encourage anyone to make the journey you do have to count the cost there is a cost more for some than others but then complicate if you don't risk anything for God one of the Saints said you're never gonna do anything great for God you did you know but I for my part advise I if I were thinking about it but weren't sure I would find a rosary you can get a rosary for two three bucks a little plastic one and I would say to her and I get a little booklet on how to pray it and I would I would go sit in the back of a Catholic Church keeping fine one open sometimes with vandalism and I'm always open but if you can just sit in the back and just talk to her and say you know what priest on EWTN that you help people who are finding their way home and put it in her court and try to pray that rosary slowly don't rush it it's not a mechanical thing at all pray it from your heart Kailas word pay the words from your heart and give her a chance to minister to you you may find that she's tugging well then see where it leads you you can always say no that's it I'm staying where I am but there has to be an openness and I think she's the best guide and you had a particular grace in your life from very early on and openness to Mary a lot of people coming from outside the church that they're not that openness for some is the biggest barrier to get over mm-hmm but you're not worshipping her no no she was admit that if you're asking for her assistance forever that's right for a prayer to draw you to her son always father how about we have a closing blessing for our audience well god bless your families keep you in his peace in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit amen all right thank you very much fun what again what's that website again where they can find out more information about your church sm g a Z dot org that's way out in the Scottsdale Arizona Arizona that's where we met a wonderful conference because that annual it isn't it I think 16 years know I've been a spiritual director for about fifteen of them yes it's a good work all right well thank you Father god bless you in your ministry thank you thank you for joining us on this episode of the journey home you know I want a couple seconds I just wanted to always encourage you to pray for EWTN and for mother and the sisters and the brothers here and especially all of you who helped support EWTN I thank you for that all of us it's hard to hide from the news that you know our country is going through some fears right now in economics but we need to be very generous thinking about our needs our own family needs I mean that's very important but never forget the the many means through which God gives us his Grace's they're the local parishes through all the works including EWTN so please pray for your wtn and be generous thank you very much god bless you see you next week

Channel: EWTN

Views: 20,499

Rating: 4.8037734 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television, Pastor, Priest (Profession)

Id: WVwJq-rPGAI

Length: 56min 27sec (3387 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 23 2015