Former KGB Spy Reveals Russia's Plan To Bring America Down - Jack Barsky

give your background on how you got involved with the kgb this guy asked me point blank he said well are you in or not and i went like huh but i don't know if i'm good enough i'm not trained i need to learn this this and this he said don't worry about it we'll train you did you ever meet yuri the man was a fraud he was not kgb how do you know that i don't know for a fact okay so you're just speculating we've been speaking for 45 minutes the moment yuri came up that was the first time you crossed your arms and you seemed upset no i i tell you what makes me upset tell me the conservative end of the political spectrum in the united states is shooting the cause in the foot you ended up doing counter surveillance for us yeah like sort of turned the weapon that they gave me against them well it is what it is this is how it works in espionage we have a special show for you today today my guest is a former kgb defector of almost 15 years 10 years when he was active spying on the us and the story is absolutely fascinating on what happened with him he wrote a book in 2017 called deep undercover my secret life entangled allegiance as a kgb spy in america with that being said jack barski aka albrecht dietrich thank you for being a guest on valuetainment very good you win you win second prize for pronunciating my name because it's really hard there you go let me tell you something my daughter actually changed her last name to uh my my birth name and she can't pronounce it either she change your life changed her life to your birthday she she was uh uh chelsea barski and she changed it to chelsea didly wow and that that listen that says how much your daughter loves you to be able to do something like that you know it's oh yes we we have a very special relationship it's very obvious i saw some of the videos and it's it's very obvious how big of an impact she had on your life when you said she made me softer and i wanted to change my life and it even got you emotional about it but let's get right into it so jack for for those that don't know you uh your story is written all over the place uh i've known your story for a while i've been following you for quite a few years uh in regards to your story you might take in a minute and maybe give your background on how you got involved in the uh with the kgb all right i give you the uh the cliffsnote version and because otherwise it gets too long sure i was born four years after the end of world war ii in eastern germany which was occupied by the soviet union by soviet troops which became the german democratic republic which was a a very very trustworthy and trusting vassal states to the soviet union almost an extension of the soviet union uh was run by the communist party and uh first of all it was i grew up in poverty i grew up in a village a relatively small village the area i grew up in was one of the poorest in germany to begin with but when uh when the soviet troops came through on their march towards berlin they destroyed a lot of stuff and that's not a surprise you know and and and uh then they took half of what was left over that was useful they took it out of the country for reparations they had every right to do so uh so we uh we had just barely enough to eat and it was always it was a fight for survival the first few years i can't remember that because i was too young uh but i i just can't tell you one thing uh an anecdote my mother once told me she she said you know occasionally i would get an an egg and i make a meal for the three of us so i really didn't ask what she stretched that egg with i was afraid of the answer yeah um early on the communists did something really really smart they focused on education they focused on the next generation coming up and they they trained a whole bunch of uh teachers in the in in the new ideology uh and uh and we we got an excellent academic education but we also got a phenomenal amount of indoctrination okay so uh the communist ideology uh was involved in with almost everything you were doing regardless of what it was it could have been sports or theater uh the arts and of course school so i grew up with the firm knowledge a that there was no god and b that uh communism was the future of the world and that we it was our responsibility as a next generation to precipitate the move from the rat system that was in the west like all the not the old nazis and the bad capitalists and and eradicate poverty in the world so we could finally establish paradise on earth for the working class i bought into this it was probably next to impossible not to there were some dissidents but typically there were people who had a glimpse of the other world the west they had like people who came over relatives and they came over and they brought nice presents they brought oranges which we i didn't see until maybe i was 10 years old and so they started looking a little bit i had no i hadn't we had no such connection and i had no reason to look um particularly as i entered college um i was a pretty smart kid and as i entered college in my first year i established a reputation of being the best and in the next couple of years uh i enhanced that reputation to an extent that i already had a name for myself and i was it was quite clear that i was i wasn't thinking ruling class ruling class i would but i was going to be one of the people that you know helped everybody else that were not quite as smart to live a good life so i i never really investigated uh you know the potential truth or not elect thereof of our ideology of our history i just believed it because it was good for me and so the uh the climax of all of this was that at one point i would see i received a national scholarship that was limited to 100 concurrent holders in the entire country that put me on the map that put me on the map as far as the kgb researchers is concerned are concerned i was a party member i was an excellent student and i do believe i don't know this for a fact but i do believe that the stasi east german police gave the the kgb access to files and by the way there was a file on everybody in the country and there i was a standout he's really smart and he believes in communism let's talk to him and i can stop right here but i can go a little further yeah if you don't mind stopping right i got a couple questions for you so uh my question is when you're there and they're indoctrinating you know you said you know communism one of the things they did right is education they got that part right which we're seeing a lot of that in america as well we'll go into that momentarily but i asked gary kasparov which i'm sure you know who gary kasparov is and the question i asked him i said so when you lived in russia and you're going to school and you're being told communism is the greatest system uh in the world economical system how are they selling america and capitalism to you what was the ways they sold capitalism or rich people to you ah let's see if we are in agreement um we obviously you couldn't completely uh block out information that came from the outside so there was always this knowledge that the standard of living in west germany was higher there was knowledge that the united states was pretty rich but here was the explanation they they stole all that the wealth from the third world you know the you know they got the bananas for nothing from guatemala and and uh you know and just like it had slave labor in in third countries and that's why they were able to sort of bribe their underclass to have a reasonable standard of living so the rich people would be left alone that was uh what we bought of course it wasn't true but what a thing to say so they got banana from guatemala for dirt cheap so so was it more slave labor they're not paying people fairly they're getting fat rich and everybody else is doing the work is that kind of the uh route or whatever you know also the international you know the multinational uh concerns that uh like oil companies they would go and drill in in countries like venezuela and take all the oil out right so stealing uh cheap labor suppression making sure that the countries that had the wealth would not benefit from that wealth and and one of our uh the focus on of the the communist camp was to uh undermine american uh influence in the third world you know to get into africa get get into asia and so you remember that at one point there was in the u.s there was this domino theory uh in in asia when when one country falls the others might fall too it wasn't totally off the wall there was an active effort to actually do that whether it would have succeeded is another story but so so go back to that go back to that so as a kid when i was coming to growing uh a growing up you know family they had two different philosophies one believed in imperials and one believed in communism but always when it came down to creating hatred towards a system it was linked to a face or a name so you know it was this person that person so your hate was linked to which personalities during that time was it a president was it a author was it a philosopher who did they sell hate to okay it was usually the politicians so but it it depended uh on the time i remember growing up i i started reading just a little bit and we had these magazines for for kids uh there were caricatures in those days of president eisenhower in eisenhower became sort of a curse word so we hated eisenhower we hated all american presidents we hated jimmy carter with his damn you know human rights policy but then we really hated ronald reagan why why ronald reagan above others because he was the guy that lowered taxes and capitalism and all that or no because because uh he was a warmonger he i mean this was uh this was spread throughout the kgb because because the kgb actually believed because that ronald reagan because of his christian background uh saw himself as a helper to god to bring about the end of the world we thought he would start a nuclear war period so by the way it's very interesting one of the presidents we didn't hate we actually pretty much liked and that was jfk yeah uh now this was more uh just like because of his appearance not necessarily because it makes sense the charisma of an individual plays a huge role in i still remember there was there was nobody in my generation that that would not remember where they were when they heard that kennedy was assassinated it we just like oh my god what's going to happen now kennedy actually kennedy actually was a pretty lousy president particularly when it came to foreign relations yeah so i mean many people would agree with you on the fact that this guy was admired love because of his hollywood type of a personality where he was the first hollywood president that president that we had if you really think about it right reagan pre trump priests some of these other guys that uh were hollywood but go back to the story on what you were saying so they found out you're a great student you they found out your card carrying communist they said this guy's pretty smart he's pretty intuitive he's stand out let's figure out a way so go from there that part of the story all right so i i'm now sort of making this up they the kgb had in in all the countries where they operated they had volunteers from that country that worked with them and so they engaged one of those volunteers to uh you know approach me and for what some reason they decided to send a german first i don't know why i would have gladly talked to a russian um so it was on a saturday i'm sitting in my dorm room and there must have been some knowledge for the individual who who knocked on my door that a i was in that room that was my room and bathe b that my my roommate wasn't there because he always moved uh uh back to he he traveled home over the weekend and in hindsight i think that we i had a student next door a russian exchange student he probably tipped them off okay so i get a knock on the door and and the interesting thing is you know in those days uh we had almost no outside visitors and every every knock on the door would would mean i'm coming in so you get a knock and the door opens uh there was a knock and there was no door open so i knew this was a stranger and you know when i eventually uh told him to him the knock i told the knock come in so the short guy comes in you had a cast on his right arm and this is really funny it's the only kgb guy i had personal interaction with who i instinctive instinctively didn't like didn't like no didn't like him at all he had the the charm of a weasel he had the face of a weasel and he and he was pretty stupid and i tell you why i'm saying he was stupid so he introduced himself as a as a representative of a local uh big company that was actually known worldwide for its optical instruments called card size yenna still exists in germany he said yeah i'm coming from carl zeiss yano and i just want to talk with you a little bit about what you want to do when when you're done uh with your with your uh with your education that was an as dumb a pretext as you could have had because he didn't even know that in those days you companies did not recruit in universities you were assigned to a job with minor exceptions you know the very top students could pick where they would go and they would typically stay at the university now was this guy you know how sometimes people act dumb like if you usual suspect kaiser so say acts crippled or some of these movies was he acting like he's a weasel or was he a qualified weasel no no no he was dumb okay he didn't no he didn't give him credit i mean he was a qualifier it's very very awkward the moment he started talking in my mind flashed stasi i i knew that he was secret police and i didn't think kgb because he spoke german right uh and and so some and we talked back and forth a little bit of what it was like to study and all this and and then uh suddenly he did a 180 he said you know what i really didn't i didn't tell you the truth i'm actually from the government so i i still revel in the idea i had this thought that i shouldn't ask him what branch of the government are you from i let it go i didn't you know i i wanted to hear what he has to say because i was curious i i was not afraid of the stasi i you know i had a clean record so i knew it would have been something let's say if not good but at least interesting so and pretty quickly he asked the one question he came um to to to visit me and that was the question he said well could you uh imagine one day to work for the government and so i gave him uh an answer to a question uh that he didn't directly ask but i said the following i said yes but not as a chemist so he had the answer to a question that he didn't ask directly but we both had an understanding that i was open to continuing to talk about this and it was quite clear that at that point i would would have guessed that it would have to be espionage and so um he we made a we made an arrangement to meet at a restaurant and the following week and uh at that restaurant he introduced me to another person you know and you know the person sat at the table and he got up and my friend who had never introduced himself i never knew his name period not even a cover name uh he turned to me and said are we working with our the soviet comrades uh meet uh um hermann and then he said i got you know i got something to do i gotta go so so one two three i was with the kgb right because i knew that was kgb herman right and and that of course you know made me proud and got me even more interested because the one thing i knew that the kgb was one mighty powerful organization and that to be associated with that organization would be would mean a whole lot of good i never thought about the danger because you know i'm a very optimistically wired individual and you know always danger to me is always an afterthought usually after things happen now are you at that time a tough guy are you one of those you know i don't know if you've seen the movie good will hunting where the guy's a genius but at the same time he's also a tough guy who who who are you at that time um mentally tough highly disciplined uh very competitive i tell you how competitive i was i started playing basketball at the age of 18 at university that was way too late and and i i was i wanted to definitely desperately be on the first team i was assigned to the second team in the first game i played i was hit in the head with a ball i i had no i had no clue i had no fundamentals and i was awkward to begin with i spent one year prac practicing with 12 year olds to learn the fundamentals i was not afraid to you know do that and i and i made the first team and i even made the first starting team so so i was extremely uh you know whatever i took on had to be i gave it a 100 okay tough um mentally yes physically i was somewhat reckless i got injured a lot in my youth so uh but but not the you know not the military style toughness that was not instilled in me and i didn't have it it was not innate to me so so let's go let's go back so you get recruited this is a proud moment you cannot believe kgb is interested in you yeah and this is an exciting time because you are a car carrying communist and if you're a car carrying communist you know it's like being a yankees fan and the yankees wants to recruit you to play for them so this is a very big milestone in your life so from there to being trained directly to going on your first mission what what does that timeline look like okay it was one and a half years of uh unofficial relationship loose relationship with herman we met sometimes once a week sometimes every other week he got to know me he he was the guy responsible for telling headquarters the center in moscow you want this guy and you know all of this for me was this play i didn't realize it i i now know that every time we met he he wrote a report he had to and he figured me out and they were looking and i know that now because i gleaned this from interviews that were given by high level you know retired kgb generals they were looking for a particular set of character traits in people about a dozen of them that had to be in place for somebody to make a an undercover illegal sleeper agent a lone wolf right uh and apparently you know i i know that i fit i fit that that profile and that's how i actually were really was really recruited because the year and a half there was nothing we were just talking and he gave me some tasks uh he gave me for instance uh we a friend of mine went hitchhiking from east germany through czechoslovakia um hungary romania to bulgaria and he he asked me to describe my my impressions of these countries he he just he gave me some things to do he gave me some minor tasks to uh to uh knock on the door of a particular family and talk to them and find out about a relative of theirs in the west which required a little bit of a ruse and stuff like so so i hated doing this but i as i told you i was ambitious i couldn't fail so i did it anyway so what were those characteristics i'm curious when he said there was about 10 or 12 characters do you remember some of them what what were they yes i remember some of them uh not all all attended that i had written down um acuity of intellect quake decision maker uh flexible in terms of situational changes uh obviously the hardcore communist uh my favorite is uh well controlled inclination to adventure well controlled inclination to adventure in other words you have to have an adventurous nature uh and and just not not afraid of new things and and ability to you know very quickly make good decisions and and i know i had all of this i lost some of it but i'm still better than most do you remember anymore these are some i may be listening while we are talking i i can get back to you no it's not i'm just really curious for my own self that was fascinating you know flexible of situational changes quick decisions well-controlled inclination of nature uh pretty wild okay so now you know they they ask you to go to this family and find out one of their relatives okay you do that you don't like doing that kind of stuff but you're so competitive so you're going to figure it out because you're not going to quit okay so where are we going from there well and so uh there came a point so i graduated from college i had my degree and i was already an employee of the university for a while and at that point the kgb uh pulled the trigger uh i was moved i was uh sent to berlin for a three week sort of special training program and in that was my first uh sort of a trip that looked a little bit like i was spying because i had to meet my my new handler over there in berlin in a whom i didn't know at a special place a special time with the with the exchange of code words then so i met him and uh and i met him uh every other day he gave me a lot of western literature to read uh which was prohibited and that made me feel good what were some of them what were some of them he gave you oh particularly newspapers magazines their speaker uh the vets item and stuff like that uh or also the the stan which is uh more of a sensationalist magazine was and still is got it uh so just to give me a flavor of what it what the west looks like because i didn't have a clue see there's one thing most east germans had that i didn't have they had uh west german television they could receive it uh we i grew up in what they called the valley of the clueless uh because for us to receive west german television we it would have required a huge antenna on your roof called uh the head of an oxen and if you had this you had this on your roof you were toast so no restaurant i once visited a friend and uh and i watched this cartoon and it was so great uh it was the flintstones in german but anyway so you know i had to be in newark i had to be shown rough slowly what it was like to be in the west but anyway um um the um i also had a a practice trip to berlin west berlin i'm sorry um and and i didn't know that how important that was to them because because so all i had to do was you know i i went twice the first time i went uh uh i took uh public transportation and uh went around a little bit walked around and um also had a beer and a sausage was really good and then i got back and there was nothing the sec second time they gave me a task similar thing just go to a certain apartment building and knock on the door and talk to some people and find out about something i forgot what it was and i did well and that was the deciding factor why they recruited me because i found out much later that not all the recruits were able to do that because you know for me i was entering enemy territory i was entering enemy territory eventually with the intent of doing harm and that scares the holy daylights out of a lot of people i met an ex classmate of mine who was in a similar city situation for the stasi and when he came back from west berlin he told him i quit guess what he never had a professional he never uh was able to work in his profession i i succeeded so on the last day my handler took me to the headquarters of the soviet uh military in berlin and i met this little guy in the office who was extremely unimpressive but the moment he opened his mouth you know that that guy had authority he was most likely the head of the kgb in his berlin uh and you know he spoke his voice was loud and metallic and it was just like they had a phenomenal amount of uh psychological energy coming out of this little man he also smoked like a bandit um he was most likely in the war war toughened the guys in in the soviet union world nothing toughens you up like war when you when you see and then uh people like your friends dying left and right but by the way just out of curiosity when a person couldn't make it through the kgb training after having been recruited by the kgb what did the kgb typically do to that person nothing if you were if you weren't qualified uh they would let it go uh if and in my case when the question is always asked when they actually asked the question and i'm i was just about to get to it this this guy asked me point blank without any any hint that to me that it was coming he he said well are you in or not and i went like huh and i said well you know i don't know i don't know if i'm good enough i'm not trained i need to learn this this and this said don't worry about it we'll train you i just want to know are you in or not and we only hire decisive people so you got until noon tomorrow to say yes or no that was a tough night because because you know now all of a sudden this became real up until this point i was playing right i didn't know it was you know i i was just waiting and when that came the reality of that move hit me hard because fundamentally i had to become a different person go to another country say goodbye to my past to my friends to my basketball team and uh start over and it would be somewhat dangerous so you know i went back and forth back and forth but but the the two things that actually got me over the finish line a the the flattery of being recruited by the kgb and b the well-controlled inclination to adventure because i just wanted to do something exciting that makes sense so now you go in uh at this point did they immediately fly you out to uh uh russia to go trained by the kgb the two years that you were there getting trained no no no uh i i was initially they thought they would send me to west germany uh makes sense right i'm a german no language and cultural barriers uh by the way the stasi had about a thousand undercover agent in west germany some of them in the government in west germany uh so it was quite successful and uh uh so the training initially was pretty much directed towards west germany one of the first uh pieces of literature they gave me was the constitution of the bundesrepublik but there was apparently a rule that everybody who was trained to do this kind of work had to learn another language and i was given the choice and since i had really no problem whatsoever with english in high school i said i'm going to learn english and so again i decided i was going to learn english that that means i gave it 100 and i i threw myself into this task i spent at least three hours a day doing something in english either working with a tutor or reading english learning vocabularies studying grammar and on and on and within nine months i had amassed about 30 000 words active vocabulary i was able to read the english novels uh in the in the original and that got to got somehow to moscow and then moscow said well they sent me a tape recorder and said you know why don't you just say something in english and it doesn't matter what it is and i did i recorded 20 minutes and and three days later they got me on a plane to moscow somebody just thought they had struck gold because i am not aware that there were a bunch of illegals that were sent to the united states at the same time i was as a matter of fact exactly nine i am not aware that they sent any other one of those uh under the pretension of having been born in the united states and this they thought there was enough there that i might actually be able to reduce the german accent to a point where it was explainable and i did and that's how i wound up in the u.s got it how long did you do training in russia in russia it was two years and and during that time when you were in russia i saw one of the uh systems that they had for you where what they were teaching you but what do you remember learning during those two years in russia uh a lot of the stuff i learned in russia was actually uh maintenance because the technical training like morse code decryption encryption photography um and and secret writing all of this i i got in berlin and so i i just practiced some sort of celestia's to stay uh you know to stay fit what in addition to english which was the focus in addition to english what what i really learned uh in moscow was counter surveillance i i worked with the best of the best those guys were the ones who who would uh follow you know cia people and i practiced with them uh and uh i did very well it's funny because you ended up doing that you ended up doing counter surveilla surveillance for us yeah this was this was very important wow this gave me they gave me uh certainty in two instances that was important the first instance was when when the kgb thought i was under investigation by the fbi and i took all the measures that i had learned and that i had successfully deployed in moscow and i was pretty convinced that the kgb was wrong i was right and the second time is when i told the kgb to take a hike and you know i resigned and i was just making sure that they weren't like coming after me in some way and after three months not seeing a sign i knew i was i wasn't declared so i sort of turned the weapon that they gave me against them well it is what it is this is how it works in espionage what did you learn with counter intelligence what were like some of the things they uh you picked up from okay well this is the specific strategy you familiar with the uh term sdr surveillance detection route i'm not that is okay that is a that is a uh uh a very well known technique uh that is used by all kinds of spies and all kinds of countries and from all kinds of countries that is you see in order for the uh like counter intelligence to figure out what you're up to they need to follow you where you're going right you know if you meet somebody uh or if you exchange materials or you uh uh you can exchange materials by what we call the dead drop operation that means you don't hand it to somebody you you just drop something someplace um and and so in other words when you leave your house and you are on our under observation somebody will follow you and if you uh pick a route so that you have enough of the folks that typically it's a team have to come out close enough to you so you can see their face uh if you do this often enough eventually if you see the same face twice you know you're being under observation the difficult thing is after three hours of doing this and you didn't see any sign to actually say you know what i'm in the clear uh but because of the i had about 10 practice runs in moscow and some of them i was being followed some of them i was not and i always was right uh what was that pretty good confidence what you because you you know in the military they used to say stay alert stay alive right and in business where they world they say only the paranoid survive so the average person goes to a restaurant they're looking at their table the menu the waiter waitress what are you looking at what's your lens oh and and this one thing that uh that i've always had is is awareness of what's going on around me and it's that's still instinctive to me you know people who meet me say you're constantly looking all over the place i said i'm not even aware of it a couple of other methods um to uh find out whether your uh apartment or your house has been checked out by counter intelligence i had a i had a real the the thing with the hair over or over the door it's nonsense it doesn't work but i had i had this chest of drawers where the the drawers had a bit of an overhang so when you look at it you couldn't quite see whether the drawer was totally closed or not uh so i left it open eight millimeters you would have to go underneath just to see that it's not quite close so if somebody goes in there and opens it they will close it so and the first thing i always did when i went uh when i got home i checked for the eight millimeters was always there um another one uh you can do is send a letter to your own address from quote unquote somebody else and you when you when you seal the the envelope you leave a couple of spots on and you don't make a moist so in other words they're they're not they're not glued when the uh when uh surveillance kind of surveillance uh the counter espionage opens letters they usually do it uh mechanically and then glue it all together so when it arrives and this is totally glued you know that somebody opened it you know there's some things that uh i came up with myself this leather thing i was taught um i i was well prepared and as a matter of fact and that's not bragging it's just uh it's a fact i have a friend who used to work with uh illegals fbi agent and he said i was by far the best prepared of them all but they they paid a lot of attention to me and they invested a lot of time and money in me that's that's so so to me then what that means is the the method to kgb is to literally know exactly who is the most qualified person to recruit and go get them so you don't have to over train them they already have the instinct they already have certain uh those uh abilities that they're watching uh did anything have to do with family like a bad relationship with mom or dad or falling out or parents are not surviving you don't have any kids did they look for those qualities because emotionally not being tied to anybody because historically if you think about it's like the colder you are the better you lead if i had had a a close relationship with emotional relationship with my mother i would not have done this if i had had at the time if a a girlfriend who i was going to marry i wouldn't have done it but the relationship with my mother was uh not warm it was okay you know we weren't fighting but we didn't it wasn't emotional and so they knew that i wouldn't have any problem telling my mother some kind of a and bull story and then totally not explained to her what i was doing that's correct and the other prerequisite was not to have any relatives in the west because one day you show up and you see uncle warner and he says what are you doing it makes sense it happens you know yeah of course i i bet i told you it makes sense to me so when i read about this and when you went to the states hey go to uh uh museums go learn the network with the elites all this stuff i saw a format for you your goal was number one get a us passport number to enter into american society number three make contacts with foreign policy think tanks number four get close to jimmy carter's national security advisers the big nav in order to influence policy why why uh getting close to him and if that was the outcome what were some of the policies they want you to they wanted you to influence all right all right we never went that far as far as you know what are you going to do once you get to know these people the i i got to disappoint you the brzezinski situation was um it's a it's a canard there was uh that came out of the 60 minutes interview i know i never really told him that they gave blazinski as an example of somebody who they would be interested in but i'd never had to test so so my i was my task was prima there were two tasks a to become a sleeper agent become an american right very important to them and b was uh at least i met one fellow who was who did the same thing as i did in the united states also determined that was his only task and i said to him when i met him you know i hate you i had other things to do so no i was um my my my focus was uh political espionage in other words you know figuring out uh foreign policy uh getting close to uh foreign policy decision makers one of whom could have been blazing by the way the kgb i found out at one point thought they could recruit him no that was a pipe dream um and and or at least influencers you know and so we that's why the think tanks came up such as who would you who would you categorize as an influencer during that time at the time and that they still exist i was i was given three organizations it was the hudson institute in new york it's a conservative think tank the uh the uh the school of international relations at columbia university where zizinski actually uh i think was the head of that school for a while and uh for some reason and i still don't know why but they had a focus on the trilateral commission you know with rockefeller uh so they were focused on the conservatives now here's the thing for somebody who just you know jumped off a potato truck comes in the united states with absolutely nothing but a birth certificate uh to get to a point where they could actually try to befriend somebody of that standing in society would have taken a while and so we we show up we thought of a shortcut and that was brilliant uh brilliantly uh devised but uh poorly executed get a passport you know you get your driver's license your social security card you know when you're done with this you go get a passport and once you've got the passport we send you to uh such a switzerland or austria where you can uh open up the company and we know ways to make you very wealthy that way and then you come back to the united states you would repatriate the money i had the education the class the ability to operate amongst the highly intelligent people i would have been a really really dangerous spy because you know i could have probably you know you you come back with five million dollars lots of money in those days you any country club will take you right and then then you're there you know you pick a country club where you know that uh the the the the um employees of the uh dude what is the the foreign ministry is not called foreign ministry in the united states that's you know what i'm talking about state department so you know and then you just make friends and before you know it you know you you you're in um that didn't happen because uh both my handlers but probably more so me made a mistake in when we practiced how to fill out the application for a passport i tell you the two mistakes i made i was too honest so there's there was one question uh what's your profession and i wrote messenger which was correct but i was not a messenger who was working for minimum wage i was a bike messenger who worked on commission and i made enough money to to actually support myself that was that was bad and the other one was uh and the answers were optional where do you think you're going and when are you leaving and i left that blank so you look at the the clark that looked at this application he put two and two together he said he's a messenger who doesn't make any money he doesn't know where he's going he doesn't know when he's going there's a little problem and so he called me back and he asked me to uh fill out an uh auxiliary um a questionnaire and i i was still very uh hopeful and uh confident i went to the back i went to a table look at the questionnaire uh with a pen positioned and i said oh first question where did you go to school where did you go to high school well i had a cover story with a high school but that high school was not ever never had a student named jack barsky so i had to get out of there and i managed to limit the damage and that i was able to reposition my application and my documents because they were still on the desk of the guy i was i was fast enough you know he'll be talking about making a quick decision to take to do that or else i would have been caught right then and there yeah yeah i mean look at the more and more deeper we get i'm sure you got a million and one stories i'd like to get right into it with a couple things i'd wanna talk to you about in regards to uh uh in regards to yuri besmanov did you and yuri ever meet did you ever meet yuri no no you're the first one no you're not the first one there is a uh there's an aura around desmanov that he he built up and gullible conservatives in the united states ate up the man was a fraud i'm sorry i'm sorry to disappoint you tell me why he's a fraud and based on which uh spezmanov first of all besmanov was never kgb okay that's a fact bezmanov had an association with the kgb as a journalist uh his his travel to the united states is is quite interesting at one point he he was stationed in india and he decided to defect in some way and so he he uh disguised himself as a hippie and he traveled around in india for a while and eventually he he must have connected with the cia and wound up in the united states and so your bresmanov wasn't much of any things but he had to make a living and smart enough he was he concocted this whole idea how the how the soviet union had this master plan to you know in stages to undermine the united states yes they had how do you know that i'm curious so from your i was expecting you to say something like the way you did i fully expected you to undermine yuri a million percent because i know your background and i know which side you are politically but i'm curious to know from your end how do you know for a fact he uh was a fraud how do you know he was not the real deal okay all right um he was not kgb how would he the the kgb was good at something very good at something and anybody who has yeah uh has had any contact with the kgb and was keeping things secret if they had had this master plan a journalist who's not even in the kgb wouldn't know anything about it number one number two and this is this is my own observation i was trained by some of the best because i was one i was one of the few elite agents that they sent in the united states they had to give me the best and some of those folks had spent some time in the united states as you know diplomats or maybe journalists and they thought they knew something about the united states and they didn't because what they the advice they gave me and the stuff they taught me was was off the wall wrong not correct and it is pretty much acknowledged uh uh an agreement that neither the the uh the united states knew very much how the soviet uh um society operated and neither did the soviet union yeah but what i'm trying to ask is how do you know he was a fraud though how how do you for a fact know yuri was a fraud i'm curious no i'm just saying it out loud because i don't know for a fact okay so you're just speculating is what you're saying that is but it's speculation it's based on uh personal knowledge and it's based on um if he had if the kgb had had such a plan as i said they wouldn't have told him secondly i know what they did and i know you know if you're familiar with active measures very much so okay active measures was a focus particularly on drop off was and this this comes this this is factual this comes out of the archives of the kgb uh there's a guy who was archivist and he smuggled out a bunch of material that bites by the name of mitrokin and and active measures were somewhat successful and that's how you try to undermine the united states but if that was the best they had what was where's the uh where does the other plan come from they couldn't even come up with one what do you mean it makes no sense stalin came up with it in 1923 where you know the disinformation program that was come up with years ago subversion by sun tzu which the ultimate way to beat your opponent is to manipulate and think you're not really fighting them by using somebody else in a proxy war and they were very effective i mean if you if you're going to say so so here's what i want to do here's what i want to do i want to play the clip of yuri and you know which clip i'm going to play for you and i'm going to go through the three steps and i want you to tell me which part of what he says is a complete line doesn't make sense i'm just curious we spoke several times before about ideological subversion that is a phrase that i'm afraid some americans don't fully understand when uh the soviets use the phrase ideological subversion what do they mean by ideological subversion is is the slow process which we call either ideological subversion or active measures activeness in the language of the kgb or psychological warfare what it basically means is to change the perception of reality of every american to such an extent that despite of the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves their families their community and their country it's a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and it's divided into four basic stages uh the first one being demoralization it takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation why that many years because this is the minimum number of years which requires to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy exposed to the ideology of the enemy in other words marxism-leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least three generations of american students without being challenged or counter balanced by the basic values of americanism american catholicism the demoralization process in the united states is basically completed already for the last 25 years actually it's over fulfilled because demoralization now reaches such areas where previously not even commerce and dropoff and all his experts would would even dream of such a tremendous success most of it is done by americans to americans thanks to lack of moral standards as i mentioned before exposure to true information does not matter anymore a person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information the facts tell nothing to him uh even if i shower him with information with authentic true documents with pictures even if i take him by force to the soviet union and show him concentration camp he will refuse to believe it until he he is going to receive a kick in the in his fat bottom when the military boat crashes his balls then he will understand but not before that that's the tragic of the situation of demoralization so which part of what yuri just said do you disagree with now let me just start with what i agree with he talks about active measures and that is accurate that's correct he also talks about uh the uh the demoralization of the nation of and he actually makes a good point uh this is primarily happened that happened internally all right and in a lot of this in my view started with with the vietnam war and the the anti-war protest movement he does not make the connection he doesn't connect the dots between what the kgb did and what happened in the united states that is not there and he can't make it because it can't prove it forget about that i don't care about that what i care about is how much of what he's saying actually was done and has credibility because it's tough to dispute that russia didn't successfully inject the spirit of communism and karl marx in u.s universities and get younger kids to believe that marxism is the way to go i mean if you look at some of the surveys that's coming up right now from harvard university 64 percent of amer of students at harvard support socialism and they don't like capitalism so it so it was an effective method wasn't it yeah but the question is how did that do it and who did it they didn't have a lot of people in the united states that could have done this this was this was home homegrown communism and this whole idea of you know everybody getting along together is an extremely attractive ideology for young people you don't need much now there there there have been uh liberals socialist streaks in in america in america historically uh going all the way back and they have grown and they have they have particularly taken hold in in in universities in academia and and so i agree that we now have already two generations who have been taught by people who beca who became anti-american during the vietnam war now did these the soviet camp contribute to all of this of course we did but the kgb itself and this is where where i i think i'm saying that uh there's an office of fraud had nothing to do with it because they weren't really capable of doing what he said they were doing they weren't really capable of doing what they said okay let me let me let me uh try to point out the fact of the matter uh the active measures as as as i said uh under andropov who was in charge in the in the 80s active he actually issued a command that everybody in the kgb would should be involved in active measures it was really important to them yeah but the department in which active measures were were executed uh was not very uh desirable so you know director first directorate the one that did espionage that was the number one the did i forgot the directorate that did active measures uh that was for losers this is a quote out of mitrogan that came out of the study of the archives of the kgb they had some successes and they failed miserably in in many other respects now i'll give you a couple of successes j edgar hoover being a cross-dresser that was planted by the kgb uh the cia inventing the aids virus that was planted by the kgb uh and there were a few other uh cases where they were was never a cross-dresser no he wasn't you're saying j edgar hoover was never a cross-dresser it was not i mean i can only tell you that assuming that the uh the notes that mitrogan took in the archives are absolutely 100 good and i tell you what uh there is a lot of um proof that they are that we don't know about because there's a lot of agents that uh went belly up after the these notes that came out so assuming assuming that he is correct he says that was an active uh he traces his back uh how this story was planted you sure you're sure you're not right now using some active measures to confuse the hell out of the rest of the world because i'm gonna flip it on you a little bit because if i look at the seven steps of active measures that they taught number one is disinformation blew up in u.s fake news all these scandals non-stop number two is propaganda number three is deception number four is sabotage number five is the dece stabilization number six is the subversion and number seven is espionage which you briefly talked about i want i want us to go back to what our friend here has to say part two and then i'm gonna come back and we'll wrap it up he's about to be done so let's hear what he has to say this guy that is apparently full of it destabilization this time subverter does not care about your ideas and the patterns of your consumption whether you eat junk food and get fat and flop it doesn't matter anymore this time and it takes only from two to five years to destabilize the nation it's what what matters is essentials economy foreign relations defense systems and you can see it quite clearly that in some areas uh in such sensitive areas as defense and economy the influence of marxist leninist ideas in the united states is absolutely fantastic i could never believe it 14 years ago when i landed in this part of the world that the process will go that fast the next stage of course is crisis it may take only up to six weeks to to bring a country to the verge of crisis you can see it in central america now and after crisis with a violent change of power structure and economy you have so-called the period of normalization it may last indefinitely normalization is a cynical expression born from soviet propaganda when the soviet tanks moved into czechoslovakia in 68 comrade brazil said now the situation in brotherly czechoslovakia is normalized this is what will happen in the united states if you allow all these schmucks to bring the country to crisis to promise people all kind of goodies and the paradise on earth to to destabilize your economy to eliminate the principle of free market competition and to put a big brother government in washington dc with the benevolent dictators like walter mondale who will promise lots of thing never mind whether the promises are fulfillable or not your leftists in the united states all these professors and all these beautiful civil rights defenders they are instrumental in the process of the of the uh subversion only to destabilize the nation when their job is completed they are not they are not needed anymore they know too much some of them when when they get disillusioned when they see that marxist lenin has come to power obviously they get offended they think that they will come to power that will never happen of course they will be lined up against the wall and shot but they may turn into the most bitter enemies of marxist leninist when they come to power and that's what happened in nicaragua you remember most of these former marxist leninists were either put to prison or one of them split and now he's working against sandinistas it happened in grenada when maurice bishop was he was already a marxist he was executed by by a new marxist who was more marxist than this marxist same happened in afghanistan when uh first there was taraki he was killed by amin then amin was killed by barbara karmal with the help of kgb same happened in bangladesh when mujibur rahman very pro-soviet leftist was assassinated by his own marxist leninist military comrades it's the same pattern everywhere so which part of what he said demoralization destabilization crisis and normalization with you know the marxist leninist ideas spreading in america which part of that do you disagree with well according to what he said we should we should we way past uh stabilization he said like two to five years and this is on a couple of weeks and then they then you know the tanks roll in and all that stuff that's vastly exaggerated what i i can't disagree with a lot of the things that he said but he says it with such authority that you know he ta he he was not he wasn't a dumb he was not a dumb guy right what i'm trying is what i'm trying to ask you is we've been speaking for 45 minutes uh for the first 45 minutes you were very calm you were good to go the moment yuri came up that was the first time you crossed your arms and you seemed upset what about this man what he has to say forget about him as an individual which part of what threat he's given america to be worried with are you so upset about no i i tell you what makes me upset tell me uh you probably know that i'm quite conservative my my ideology i'm i call myself a uh conservative libertarian constitutionalist okay i i have a strong belief that uh the conservative end of the political spectrum in the united states is shooting the cause in the foot by believing in some things that are way off that they are not that are not connected to facts not connected for the truth and they're fall for people like besmino because it fits it fits their narrative and that's where you get these these people that are way to the right you know qanon and some some others that uh that do harm to our cause you know i'm i have scientific training who's who's your favorite conservative president i'm curious ronald reagan okay well so so what what do you what did you think about clinton as a president for a democrat he wasn't so bad he was just uh you know a philanderer but uh in terms of in terms he actually uh pulled back some of those social measures like you know work fair instead of welfare and he and he he was sort of almost in the middle uh and maybe figures like clinton were in the way of that that whole scheme that the kgb cooked up the kgb wasn't strong enough to do what besan and bezemanov uh uh says that they were doing and succeed what did you what do you think about a trump or obama or biden curious oh the last two there were the in my view the worst and the second worst president in the united states which one's trump and obama no no no the last two trump and bible trump uh i would vote for him tomorrow if he were to what to uh run again um i i'd rather have somebody who knows how to behave uh he he really caused he caused some damage to the conservative cause by not listening to advisers he must have had that advice not to have that rally on the sixth because he should have known that there would be some people some nut cases who uh who would do what they did and give the tons of ammunition to the democrats who think you know who call this a an insurrection and uprising a bunch of nonsense but he should have like known better but his policies i can't think of a single major policy that he implemented that i disagree with okay so uh so so let me ask you let me ask you a question uh last 18 months last uh go from february till today so whatever that makes it february till today last 21 months that we've had right the 20 and what i'm saying is covet right uh riots protesting all that stuff speak from your paranoid side okay speak from the paranoid side of jack of uh albrecht um who was behind dividing america the way we've been divided the last 21 months was it internal was it ji ching was it china was it russia was it the the democratic party was it the republican party was it the mainstream media media what caused america to be as divided as we were the last 21 months well the seats were already in place i mean we have a as you know we have our homegrown left and uh and we we've had anarchists i mean remember way back when the black panthers and and i forgot this other group that uh obama's uh ex-friend belonged to you know the terrorists we've we've had them and um and i think what happened here is uh the ideological uh work that the leftist professors did in colleges actually bore fruit yeah and more people believe in this nonsense i mean this is again they they're looking at stuff and the desmond officer right they're looking at stuff and and they're stan it's a reporter standing in front of a burning building and says uh it's a peaceful demonstration that's some of the things that best number says are are just like absolutely right on the money but but he twisted it a little bit it's i believe it's internal i believe it's internal and and don't you think like don't you think for a person who comes from that word the whole sun tzu concept is to make it seem like nobody else did it it happened you did it to yourself isn't that like the whole concept of subversion confused the out of the enemy making think they did it to themselves rather we manipulated you can do that you that would be wonderful but we there are people in this country who are doing it to other people i i know that yeah sure i'm aware that those and those are the people that uh live high on the uh we're hog and same page there okay yeah what i'm trying to say is those guys that you just talked about let's stay on that so those guys you just talked about that are doing it to other people internally somebody converted them who is the people that converted them like you get what i'm saying wait a minute wait wait a minute it needs uh it takes con converting a good person to make a bad person out of them i believe very strongly that uh there is a lot of evil potential in almost everybody and some people are more evil than others yeah and and some people are more power hungry than others and if they get a chance and unfortunately our political system with a uh with a poli a political class uh enables people like that okay and and so there's there's some there's something also um we need to get back to the principles of the constitution because the constitution wasn't set up to have a political system to have a huge bureaucracy to have a a vast a central bureaucracy this is where the left is going and what and i believe that communism is not the end of this kind of development it's going to be some kind of an oligarchy because you think those powerful magnets of industry particularly the ones in in big tech will just say okay have have have it give it to the state no communism means the state owns the means of production you know that that's not going to happen there's going to be this is like russia or maybe like china china has private industry but god forbid if you say something against uh the central government you disappear so uh it's different it's it's it's a it's a dictatorship uh by any other name and and it it neither communism nor this uh they're all bad and because what they imply that the majority of people lose their freedom to make decisions for themselves yeah you know it's it's uh that's why i wonder what what part of what this man said do you disagree with so are you saying the only thing you disagree with that kgb wasn't powerful enough to make make america divide america you're saying didn't have that kind of power i i say that i say that um vastly overrated uh in in many respects uh you know i i worked with these guys they they were they were totally uninformed about what's going on in the united states and they didn't know what they didn't know that's my own personal experience yeah man isn't that like the ultimate uh you know a guy was at my house yesterday uh two nights ago and we're sitting there till midnight we're having a conversation together and he brings up an old enemy okay an old enemy that did whatever he can to put me out of business and uh this is a deceptive guy this is a manipulative guy this is a sharp persuasive manipulative charming conniving he's got all those qualities all the qualities of a great enemy so he says uh so uh uh uh so you know he starts telling me stories about this guy that maybe him and the two had issues together he says so what do you think about this guy i said i trust him 100 percent he his jaw drops he says what do you mean you trust him i said you have no idea how much i trust the guy how could you trust this guy i said i trust the fact that every morning he wakes up hoping we'll go out of business i trust her i fully trust him so so the point i'm trying to make to you is how how are you so trusting of the lack of influence and manipulative abilities a country like soviet union russia would have to change western philosophies you're like underestimating them no you got to know the enemy if you want to defeat the enemy they didn't know the enemy they didn't know the enemy well but we're not talking about the military we're not talking about society and and and and that's my final answer so who was the enemy who was the enemy that kgb didn't know the so let's just say kgb thought john was the enemy but adam's really the enemy who was adam no no how the enemy functions how the enemy thinks what's their strength what's their weaknesses so they didn't know how america functioned not really no uh they believed in their own ideological uh simplifications of of how the united states and and and its economy operates do you think they they think they had any idea of you know the the roots in the constitution no it wasn't we we believed in our own propaganda and and the ones and here's the thing the ones that should have been successful and should have been uh involved in uh in the active measures to do what besnow says were the ones that worked with me and they they fell short in my view so i'm sorry i'm sorry we're not we're not going to get we're not going to agree on this point which is fine you know i i i i respect your opinion but you you're not getting me off of mine no i mean i i don't think i will because you you know your life is not going to make you i sat down with a former fbi agent last week or two weeks ago was it two weeks ago jim clinton is it jim clemente jim clemente okay and uh uh 20-plus years fbi his brother was an fbi agent fully qualified fbi and true believer fbi like there's a reason why he became an fbi agent there was a motive behind what happened with his personal life when he was younger we won't get into that right now so i said tell me about nurture versus nature you know like a guy that ends up becoming a killer and takes someone's life is the nurtures of nature i love the way he used it i think it kind of validates your point here's what he said he said genetics loads the gun yes okay he said personality and psychology aims the gun and then he says experiences of your life makes you pull the trigger so are you saying some people are born evil and they just can't help but divide what about the guy who just that drove his suv into a crowd that's insane and there's there's all kinds of like killers and murderers what about stalin who and mao who oversaw and hitler oversaw the killing of millions of their own people how how how is how is that how is that trained it's got to be in you okay and i i believe what what the your fbi man said it's true i actually once met uh a couple of triplets that were separated at birth and brought up in three different uh families three different settings and they were incredibly alike you're probably familiar with that of course they did yeah of course they did a documentary on them yes and i actually i actually tutored each one of them so i knew him well get out of here yes i was in college for them what a great story yeah yeah so so your point is your point is hitler was born evil it's not the fact that they made fun of him and didn't didn't let him go into that one school or institution that offended him that made him want to say for the rest of my life i'm going to get my vengeance uh yes that that's my my claim and yes and there had to be other things that could fall into place triggers and and enablement right so you know you don't you don't you cannot act on your evil nature just just because you want to and you don't have to be positioned in that way jack i got two more questions before we wrap up to finish this off one of them is honeypot you know the whole red sparrow story how much truth is there behind that a lot also that one is true oh well yes a lot yeah oh man yeah that was uh the the best of them was actually um east germany you know but they had they had the uh romeo's that they'd work with men yes oh sex and espionage historically there's always been a great marriage so to speak and then the other question is last but not least to wrap up uh this is your world meaning i'm assuming you still kind of follow this world follow what's happening follow the news that comes up that has to do with your world who who if you were sitting there and you were the advisor to trump or biden i'm talking the last two presidents and they bring you in to work as a consultant who would be your top three enemies that you'd have to look out for uh if you're advising the american president who are the three enemies we should look out for today okay number one china absolutely china uh number two ourselves and number three pick them you know russia iran uh you know iran and iran and north korea are too small if they start something they'll they get destroyed um so you put china at the top why do you put china at the top uh because the chinese are very deliberate they have a they have a long-term vision they always had it and they they got their act together and the they are slowly slowly getting to a point where they become almost equal if not a little bit bigger economically and militarily and then uh they're not stopping this is in this and and what trump did he was he he did the right thing he was actually looking at them as a as a very dangerous adversary and now we are loosening those uh brains again uh this is this this is definitely a possibility that one my great grandchildren will have to learn uh chachuan or whatever the language is called do you almost do you almost need a president like trump to be able to handle a country like china do you need somebody strong to go up against them or that's irrelevant and strong and to some degree unpredictable as long as he is clear as to why he is unpredictable because you know they don't want to die none of them want to die only only the maniacs want to die the chinese leaders don't want to die the russians don't want to die the soviets didn't want to die so but watch out for the maniacs well jack i can talk to you for hours i appreciate you for uh making the time and being open to the questions and the discourse that you and i had this was fascinating interview uh uh really really enjoyed it we're going to put the link to your book below deep undercover so people can go get it and find out more about your story we didn't even cover a half the stuff that you shared about your life so i i'd love for them to go find out more about that but uh jack i'll give the final thoughts to you before we wrap up i really enjoyed it thank you thank you very much that this was very intense and it was what it was an example where two people can disagree and still like each other i think i like you a lot so no you were no this was it was pretty hard arguments and i and then you put me on my toes particularly since i wasn't exactly prepared so i had to come up with uh you know on the spot with some arguments um that's fine no problem and uh i think i at least passed i just want to put one plug in in addition to my book there is a podcast out that uh is about my life it's called the agent and can be uh can be listened to on all the major uh streaming audio streaming platforms it's professionally produced it's really good because it has people other than me in it you know it's not just me talking but it's you know the agent the fbi agent who uh uh who was the lead on my case and how they were operating but it's just like and a lot of historic backgrounds so i'm going to put the link below i'm looking at it right now the agent imperative is a remarkable true story jack barks get the longest longest arriving no member of the hkgb illegal programs operator during the height of cold world we'll put the link to that below as well for folks to go listen to it but either way jack thank you so much for your time really appreciate it so and one of those days if we happen to be in each other's uh uh neighborhood i would like to meet you in person i i would love to do the same as well once we shut this down maybe i'll talk to you about something but again thank you for your time okay well you're most welcome take care so i'm curious who do you believe yuri or jack do you do you believe what yuri had to say or jack comment below if you enjoyed the interview give it a thumbs up subscribe to the channel i got two other interviews for you one of them is with clint hill uh this interview got six seven million views it's the former secret service agent to four presidents and jackie kennedy he was the first guy that jumped on top of the car when john f kennedy got assassinated the other one is a sit down i did with ayman dean who was a former spy for mi6 that used to be with the al qaeda it's a very interesting story he had a chance to meet osama bin laden very interesting if you've not seen that click over here take care everybody bye [Music]

Channel: Valuetainment

Views: 1,672,187

Keywords: Entrepreneur, Entrepreneurs, Entrepreneurship, Entrepreneur Motivation, Entrepreneur Advice, Startup Entrepreneurs, valuetainment, patrick bet david, Valuetainment Media, Patrick Bet-David Valuetainment, jack barsky, kgb spy, russian spy, russian spies, cold war, former kgb spy, secret mission, soviet union, deep undercover

Id: tlBOC-bwS1w

Length: 82min 44sec (4964 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 15 2021