Follow Him Podcast: Episode 31, Part 1–D&C 84 with guest Barbara Gardner | Our Turtle House

[Music] welcome to follow him a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their come follow me study i'm hank smith and i'm john by the way we love to learn we love to laugh we want to learn and laugh with you as together we follow him hello everyone welcome to another episode of follow him my name is hank smith i am your host i am here with my indomitable co-host john by the way um we want to mention um that you can find us on social media please uh come over to our instagram facebook accounts uh you can get our you can get show notes and transcripts at follow him dot co dot com john follow him just dot co just co dot co and of course we'd love for you to rate and review our podcast uh that makes us very happy when we get good reviews um john who's with us today yes and we're i'm so excited about this because we had so much uh wonderful feedback when we had uh barbara morgan gardner on before and last time i read a bio from the byu website this time i'm going to read one from the back of her book it's a little shorter if that's okay barbara um the priesthood power of women in the temple church and family and this was oh i want to look this up real quick published in 2019 so it's kind of hot off the press barbara morgan gardner is an associate professor of church history and doctrine at brigham young university she holds a master's degree in educational leadership and foundations and a phd in instructional psychology and she did post doctoral work at harvard university she was institute director in boston massachusetts serving more than 100 universities and colleges in the area and acting as chaplain at harvard and mit she continues to serve as the chaplain at large in higher education for the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints she also serves on the byu interfaith outreach council she and her husband dustin gardner live in utah and we're we're really so excited to have you back welcome thank you for coming back thanks it's a such a pleasure to be here with you guys my life is better being with you so thank you we're grateful you would associate with us it's rough it's right but i'm willing um uh john that book uh what's the title of it again it's called the priesthood power of women and barbara didn't ask us to do this but i just want to say this book has changed a lot of lives yeah i just just giving people uh it well i think it was elder president oaks who said he is his favorite talks where so was when someone took an old topic that he already knew about and showed him new things about it well the priesthood is an old topic in the church but barbrish will show you new things and and and it's page after page of new things you've never known so um we're just gonna throw the follow him stamp of approval on on uh on her book and i think what you're saying i like how you said that hank but it's kind of like you read something and you go nox you just go oh well of course i should have known that type of a thing and it settles inside i like that that's it helps you know yeah that's true yeah so sorry to uh gush there barb a little bit well thank you it's i never intended to write a book i i was i was i was intending to help people find answers to questions and help them stay strong and active in the church and understand the priesthood especially how it relates to women and the book the book ended up being the result just kind of formed out of that yeah a lot of books start that way yeah well uh let's jump into our lesson this week barb um we have a single section uh we are in section 84 um of the doctrine and covenants why don't we back up as much as you want when i think about section 84 having taught seminary institute in byu that when i think of this section i immediately think priesthood i mean it says right in the section heading this is a revelation on priesthood and so um traditionally any time we're talking about a revelation on priesthood we we we have thought of men um and there's a reason for that as well in section 84 because this section actually comes in in september of 1832 and just nine months earlier in january of 1832 joseph receives a revelation he sends from the lord and he's sending all these 24 different missionaries throughout the united states and if you guys remember just a few seconds earlier we had these these missionaries just listed one by one and here's your companionship and this is where you're going and sometimes good luck and figure out where you're going but now these missionaries have all returned and they are in kirtland with joseph smith now and they're basically kind of giving their missionary homecoming discussion with the prophet and so it's in this setting that joseph is going to receive this revelation now known as revelation on priesthood it's important to know though that this revelation section 84 is actually a compilation of three revelations so it's received on september 22nd and then 23rd joseph calls it again in the section heading it's a season of joy but actually what you're seeing is three revelations eventually tied together so the first part of this revelation section 84 goes from um about verses one through gosh the about through the oath and covenant of the priesthood so you're going to be looking at one through about 43 44. and then the next two revelations are going to be received the next day and they're going to finish up the rest of this section so a lot of times when we look at this there's a there's a there's kind of a a break in the section as you're reading it and that's actually purposeful because it is three revelations combined into one so joseph's receiving this revelation in front of all these elders and and it's it's interesting because you have the writings of of some of them later saying this is what we saw we saw joseph's counsenance and they describe his cadence and how everything was was being received by the lord but none of them were actually writing it down so in the process oliver cowdery comes in and he sees this revelation taking place and he's like wait is anybody writing this down because this sounds pretty important nobody was and so at that point oliver kind of takes up his pen and starts being described for this revelation yeah somebody should do some writing all right um and you were gonna you you tie this usually to section 75 isn't that right i i tied this section to many sections of the doctrine covenants i mean if i were to look at the doctrine and covenants and i were to say okay what do you need to know in preparation for this revelation what sections should you read before before you read this i i would say strongly that you need to read section two because section two is going to be talking about elijah and the temple and and the work of sealing you need to read and understand section 13 because now we're talking about the priesthood being restored right um we could we could read section 25 which president nelson told the women of the church to study as they're trying to understand more about priesthood you could read section 27 i mean you could go on and on you could read section 36 where the temple is is first mentioned in the doctrine covenants and then 38 where we're talking about being endowed with power i mean there's so many section 76 you're talking about the great vision and then 82 right before this is going to be a great revelation also is going to be mentioning priesthood and zion and temple work but then this section and the reason why i bring up all those other sections before this is because this section is a temple section so when i teach this and when i study this it's it's absolutely imperative that we understand that joseph smith was receiving revelation regarding the temple so if you see right off the bat verse one we're seeing that he's talking to these six elders but verse two we're seeing mount zion and new jerusalem then you turn the page this new jerusalem is going to be built on the temple lot that's verse three then verse four you see even the place of the temple which temple shall be reared in this generation and then you start seeing verse 5 built into the lord the lord's house and you continue on this and then it talks about this holy priesthood so it's absolutely imperative that we're talking about this holy priesthood that we understand that we're talking about the patriarchal order of the melchizedek priesthood so often we talk about the administrative function of the priesthood and that's going to be section 18 of the doctrine covenants where we're talking about the first presidency in the quorum of the 12 and the administrative function that's peter james and john coming to joseph smith right and and revealing or giving to him the keys of the melchizedek priesthood this priesthood the melchizedek priesthood the highest or the melchizedek priesthood the keys are going to be received in the kirtland temple and so this is going to be following this revelation where joseph receives these keys it's a patriarchal order the priesthood referring to husband and wife women and men going to the temple and receiving um their their priesthood together as president benson would talk about i've heard you talk about this before that there's two not two priesthoods but two priesthood what did you structures per se two priesthood structures yeah yeah just for right now i think it's important that we just understand that there are two priestess structures adam and eve um enter into the patriarchal order the priesthood this highest order of the priesthood continues on from abraham to sarah and then it continues on through moses and as we know from the book of exodus and we're going to see this in this section as well when you look at verse 23 for example he talks about this priesthood and he says moses plainly taught to the children of israel in the wilderness and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of god but they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence therefore the lord in his wrath for his anger was kindled against them swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness which rests the fullness of his glory therefore he took moses out of their midst and the holy priesthood also so we're referring specifically to this holy priesthood it's the highest order of the melchizedek priesthood is the patriarchal order of the priesthood so we have to understand going into this section that this patriarchal order the priesthood was taken away from the people during the time of moses it returns again during the time of christ although during the time of christ according to elder mcconkie christ set up his church in the administrative or hierarchical function of the priesthood or in other words he has first presidency quorum of the twelve so it's a hierarchical function structure in the patriarchal order you're going to see family you're going to see old testament you're going to see more temple when you're talking about administrative or or ecclesiastical function you're going to see a first presidency a quorum of the 12 and you're going to see bishops and in our day state presidents so when joseph smith is now restoring the gospel of jesus christ he is receiving both simultaneously he's receiving the hierarchical or administrative order of the priesthood he's going to be called as the prophet of the church first presidency quorum of 12 are going to be established et cetera but he's also going to be told by the lord that they need to gather israel and that they need to move to the ohio and the purpose of moving to the ohio is to be gathering and establishing the temple there and he's going to do the same thing he's moved into missouri and then the temple is going to actually be built and endowments are going to be received in the kirtland temple so they're two administrative destruction structures of the church they're going to overlap which is why in our day you see the public is going to be the administrative and you're going to see more of the private which is the patriarchal and it's and it's the temple so i should in my mind i'm trying to i'm i i'm i'm not slow but i i i just got to make sure i get it yes i feel like i'm saying yeah i feel like i there's a there's a priesthood structure that runs the church yep and then there's a priesthood structure that is going to be involved in my home and marriage and my temple covenants and i can knowing me i could probably get those confused and i bet people do that sometimes easily yeah in fact elder balor one of the things that he talks about is as the the church right now is the scaffolding what we had in the pre-mortal life is going to be the patriarchal heavenly father and heavenly mother heavenly parents reign in this pre-mortal world what we have on the earth is the structure of church that is supposed to be for the purpose of strengthening the family what you see in the home is the patriarchal priesthood structure right so president oaks talks about how there's a difference between how the priesthood functions at church and how priesthood functions in the family and that becomes extremely important and then in this this life we have a priesthood structure that's public president um ballard would say that this is this is a scaffolding right now that in the eternities we will be using at the order of the priesthood priesthood and this scaffolding right now is to help us prepare to live in families for eternity um we already kind of started there in verse and verse two we talked about temple and and i think also as as we talk about this you know a lot of people there i shouldn't say a lot there are a number of people who struggle with the idea of women and priesthood and and this becomes extremely important because as we understand the the role of priesthood and understand those different priesthood structures it helps answer a lot of the questions that people have so today we don't have time to go into all the all of the intricacies of this but but for a simple answer to a lot of these is president packer says true doctrine understood changes attitude and behavior and i am one who who studied the doctrine of the priesthood for many reasons but one very important reason was because i heard enough people that were confused and disgruntled that i knew if they truly understood the doctrine of the priesthood they wouldn't be that's just that's just kind of my philosophy there may be some but the majority are going to say oh my goodness i had no idea women really do have priesthood power women really do have priesthood authority they aren't ordained to a priesthood office in the church structure but when they enter the temple and they receive their endowments when they make covenants with the lord they are endowed with priesthood power and priest authority and understanding the difference between those two priestess structures answers many questions that women have so when a woman says yes when i go home and and somebody will say aren't you so sad that you don't have the priest in your family and she's a single woman as president nelson said recently she says oh actually i do i do have the priesthood in my family if a mother for example her husband may be gone and that there's a son who's been ordained to a priesthood office and let's say he holds the iranian priesthood who presides in the family well when the husband's gotten the mother of course she's presiding because she's the mom as she has made covenants with the lord and even if she hasn't made covenants lord the relationship between a husband and wife puts them in a leadership position with the children so so understanding a lot of these things answers the questions of presiding answers the questions of power and authority why we do these things but also helps us understand um that the purpose of the priesthood is for the salvation of souls that it's not a it's not a war or a battle between men and women it's a synergistic approach that god has given to women and men in this church to unite together for the purpose of bringing all of our brothers and sisters back to our heavenly parents so when we understand the priesthood and the responsibility behind it all of us then are working together for the same purpose which is to bring to pass the immortal and eternal life of all of god's children that's the purpose of the priesthood i love that i've got two sisters who are single parents and it's happened it's been said to them many times right um you don't have the priesthood in the home when my sister's son finally became a deacon it was like oh the priesthood's back in your home but yet she was endowed she she had the priesthood in her home the entire time the the power and authority of the priesthood i i think that's a maybe it's because we barb and you could probably speak to this as we go through the section but maybe it's because in the i don't know the last i don't know however long we've said we've just made men priesthood we've just exchanged those two words the men in church are the priesthood of the church right but there was a time in the church where not every man got priesthood became a you know an elder bishop john didn't someone teach us earlier that you would have an entire congregation and two elders and a bishop right or two elders in there and a teacher in the whole thing thank you hank and i i remember was it in the when elder oaks's talk when he said it it'd be improper to say we'll now have the priesthood past the sacrament was it was it he who said that yeah because because no that's not what happens there's people who hold the priesthood might pass the sacrament but referring and that that's those kind of things are very helpful men are not the priests and uh and i thought that talk of elder oaks was wonderful where he said we talked about this phrase where he said when a woman is set apart to do her calling or as a missionary she is set apart with priesthood authority and then he said what other authority could it be and that was one of those moments where well of course if you're doing god's work you're using the power of god what would you call that yeah you know and john that that becomes important because again that's the ecclesiastical structure that we're talking about when president oak says when women are set apart to a to a calling they have priesthood authority and they have power because of their righteousness well what other priest authority would it be that's the authority of the priesthood that comes through the keys of one who is either a bishop or a state president or in some ecclesiastical role you don't receive priesthood authority and priesthood you don't receive priesthood power in the temple through priesthood keys you receive priesthood power and authority the temple through your covenants so it's very different when you look at how how this process is moving forward and so understanding again that relationship is important that's why for example you're getting into you know look back in section 84 we're talking about moses and how he receives this priesthood and you see this whole father-to-son relationship and i remember one day i was asked to explain this and i could not explain it this patriarch this idea of patriarchal order for some women is very difficult because patriarchal seems a little bit patronizing as if men again are in charge and i love president president benson where he says we call it the patriarchal order of the priesthood because it's passed on from father to son but that does not mean that it's not a family priesthood he actually says adam and eve together entered into this patriarchal order both of them have the power and authority associated with the patriarchal order of the priesthood and he says a better term for it would be familial governments rather than patriarchal priesthood oh wow which is really a beautiful statement from him that comes by the way from a great talk that i highly recommend anybody who is studying this subject it's what i wish you would you would teach your children about the temple from president president benson elder bednar quoted heavily out of that talk in his last in his last talk on the temple and trying to help us understand the temple better that's that's a heavily quoted talk it was given the logan temple years ago logan tabernacle i believe years ago it's a phenomenal talk on this topic i can't be exalted without my wife she can't be exalted without me this is all about family and so no wonder satan is trying to divide so much because we need each other the talk is entitled what i hope you teach your children and grandchildren about the temple is april 1985 in the logan temple and he says this adam and his descendants entered into the priesthood order of god today we would say that they they went to the house of the lord and received their blessings the order of the priesthood spoken of in the scriptures is sometimes referred to as the patriarchal order because it came down from father to son but this order is otherwise described in modern revelation as an order of family government where a man and a woman enter into a covenant with god just as did adam and eve sealed for eternity to have posterity and to do the will and the work of god throughout their mortality it's it's similar to what president or elder mcconkie teaches about the abrahamic covenant he says there will be no abrahamic covenant if there was no sarah you it's it's a couple it's a family relationship so we i mean we could say it's the abrahamic and psaria covenant if we really wanted to but scripturally we say it's the abrahamic covenant when you're talking about the patriarchal order of the priesthood and you're talking about sections of the doctrine covenants um we're talking about family we're talking about the gathering of israel we're talking about creating zion we're talking about becoming gods and goddesses we're talking about as we get into sections 128 later on in the doctrine covenants they receive their exaltation meaning husband and wife they become gods and goddesses husbands and wives together become that and so regardless of of marital status right now for a man or a woman to enter into the patriarch order of the priesthood and become gods and goddesses they have to make and keep these covenants whether in this life or in the next which is absolutely significant we're looking at section 84 because these promises that are going to be given to both women and men are only associated with those who entered into this order of the priesthood it's it's that understanding that order of the priesthood is a lot more important than people realize you have to understand the temple in order to understand this section but as paying the price as president nelson says to spend time in the temple where the lord does his teaching is critical to understanding section 84. yeah i this would change everything it changes your paradigm because you would say oh you know just like the bishop presides over the ward the father presides over the family and that's not the case you're taking the structural priesthood the administrative part and moving it over into the family and that's you're saying no that's not how it works you need to understand this patriarchal priesthood this familial government yeah i mean you look at some of these things and and again this is a little bit hard because because some things we would like to discuss in the temple that perhaps are sacred and difficult to discuss outside of the temple but if you carefully look at this section for those of you who have received your endowments and for those of you who haven't you can still see through temple eyes some of these things just from the old testament and from the and from the pro great price in other areas but when you think about verse 19 for example president nelson says that both women and men are not using the priest of privileges that could be theirs and then he tells them to study 19-22 specifically it's not just men aren't understanding their priesthood privileges women aren't and where do women receive their priesthood privileges in the temple right so this is all temple so you go to verse 19 the greater priesthood administered the gospel and and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom of god or the kingdom even the key of the knowledge of god so some people would look at that and say well we're talking about keys so that's definitely got to be the be men right because keys are men no keys are not men this isn't talking about this isn't talking about a position in the church they're not called to be an apostle they're not called to have a a presiding stewardship they are given the key of the mysteries of the kingdom of god in fact president benson in that same talk says both women and men receive the key of the mysteries of the kingdom of god in the temple so this becomes extremely important in in verse 19 for example because this talks about um this priesthood structure and we're talking again about this patriarchal priesthood structure but we're talking about in verse 19 where president president nelson recently asked both the women and the men of the church to study section 84. in fact to the to the men of the church and the priesthood session of the church he actually said to the men that both women and men do not understand their priesthood privileges and he asked them to study and if you go to the footnote he specifically asked the men to study section 84 verses 19-22 then in section in 2019 president nelson gives the same invitation to the women of the church and asks them to read section 84 to better understand their priesthood power and authority so this becomes extremely important president nelson in the in the last couple of years has invited the last few years has invited both the men and women of the church to study section 84 in regards to the priesthood so what are these privileges that we may be missing well in verse 19 the prophet or the lord talks about the key of the mysteries of the kingdom even the key of the knowledge of god so for many women and men sometimes we think about keys we think about presiding in this case we're not talking about presiding at all we're talking about a blessing that comes from one who makes and keeps temple covenants and so for example in verse 19 that key of the knowledge of god president president benson actually says when you attend the temple and perform ordinances that pertain to the house of the lord certain blessings come to you he gives a few and then he says in the temple you will receive the key of the knowledge of god you will learn how you can be like him even the power of godliness will be manifest to you so when we look at this i hope that we understand in the temple and you think about what the prophets and the leaders of the church have taught about the temple the temple is where we receive the knowledge of god it's where we receive and have the key of the knowledge of god and where we learn to become like god and have them therefore the power of godliness in our lives and then we continue on talking about the ordinances and the authority given uh specifically in regards to the temple and then you see in verse 22 for without this no man can see the face of god even the father and live and where are we taught to see the face of god and where are we taught to be in his presence again this is the temple right so this this whole section is things that we're missing we're talking about the temple and that's why we continue on where we where we talked about before about moses moses lost these temple ordinances moses lost this power the people lost this this this ability to see the face of god because they lost the patriarchal order of the priesthood they no longer had the ability to enter into the temple and make him keep those sacred covenants associated with this highest order of the melchizedek priesthood so then it's the lesser order of the priesthood then that we have when we talk about that starting in verse 26. barb how much do you think joseph smith it's just you can see the lord laying the groundwork here and i wonder if he's saying these things not quite understanding what they mean right because he's not going to have the kirtland temple for another you know this is we're four years away from the dedication of the kirtland temple still so i wonder if he's saying some of these things and and he's going i can't wait to find out what what all this means right i don't want to say poor joseph but talk about a mind-blowing experience on a regular basis i mean it's so fascinating and he just keeps saying you know we we need to learn more we need to learn more and then joseph actually says we cannot learn more about this higher order of the priesthood until we build a temple we have to build a temple in order to learn this but then i think for women this becomes extremely important because the men receive their endowment in in 1842 it's it's it's six years after after the keys are restored in the kirtland temple right then finally they're starting to move to nauvoo and and joseph and some of the men some elect men are receiving these keys but joseph says we cannot still have the fullness until the women received this priesthood and it was because of that that the relief society has started and the relief society is what prepares women to be able to enter the temple and as you go through those early society minutes joseph is clearly helping the women to enter into the order of the patriarch entrance to the patriarchal order of the priesthood with the men and he says the men can't have it without the women the women can't have it without the men and therefore we need both to enter into the temple he was he was so forward thinking um so joseph talks about in the book daughters of my kingdom joseph joseph has a statement first of all the key of knowledge and then he says the purpose of organizing this society was to give this is from daughters of my kingdom was to give the women the responsibility to help each other prepare for greater blessings of the priesthood found in the ordinances and covenants of the temple if i wish i could pull out all these quotes right now but this is a great place to find find quotes and understanding on this is um the book from the church history department well actually i would give you two references um one is actually i can give you three references the book daughter's in my kingdom that's one source that's a great reference daughters of my kingdom that's an official church yeah and then the other one is woman of the covenant it's a story relief society that's another place where joseph talks very specifically about the purpose of relief society and women and how they have to come in together to have the fullness of the priesthood um actually there are so many um president benson actually talks about that same idea there and then in the early minutes joseph smith's talks uh joseph smith's what do they call them minutes i just like to say the minutes of their relief society joseph smith's accounts to the women of relief society you can actually find the minutes on the josephsmithpapers.org there's also a great book by sherry dew and virginia pierce hinckley cowley that also go through carefully and discuss the minutes of that book as well that i would recommend what okay can you just kind of one more time restate the the the gist of that we can't basically there there are two ideas the first one is in order to receive the fullness of the priesthood we must have a temple right so we have to have the temple in order to receive the patriarchal order of the priesthood we cannot enter into the patriarchal priesthood unless we have both men and women together and so the purpose of the relief society was to prepare the women to enter into the temple which is why in these early days of relief society they were called these women were actually called priestesses and they were actually given that responsibility these were women and men coming together in order to enter into the fullness of the priesthood if you i mean you even just studying the scriptures you can find so much more on this topic regarding women and men together section section 132 of the doctrine covenants talks about um what we talked about before um eventually be gods because they have no they have no end therefore they shall be from everlasting to everlasting because they continue it's talking about husband and wife this whole section is about husband and wife and being sealed again a man can't be sealed and receive the patriarchal blessing patriarchal police unless he has been sealed to a woman neither can a woman to a man it's it's all throughout the scriptures section 131 of the doctrine covenants as well talks about verse two in order to enter into the highest a man must enter into this order of the priesthood meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage and then another name for the new and everlasting covenant of marriage is the patriarchal priesthood and if he does not he cannot obtain it he may enter to the other but but that is that is the end of his kingdom he cannot have an increase so it's this continuing on of this this holy priesthood is impossible for a man to be saved and ignorance that talks more about the priesthood there if you go throughout the doctrine covenants and you just follow through temple ceilings marriage endowments and authority and things of that nature you're going to see the progression between women and men and receiving their priesthood ordinances that's right their priesthood covenants and ordinances associated with it i i recognize it and talk about this like i get kind of excited about it but when you start really looking at it it becomes very clear what the lord is trying to do the lord is trying to create eternal families and the patriarchal order of the priesthood is how god creates eternal families and so section 84 is a temple section regarding how to create eternal families the women who were referred to as priestesses um in some of the meetings so so the women were actually referred to as deaconesses priestesses and the early days they were it was it was known as the anointed quorum both women and men together who had who had entered into the patriarchal priesthood were known as the anointed quorum when reference to the temple you're talking about women they are being given positions in the temple that allows them to have this temple authority in this temple and this priesthood power and so that's what we're really section 84 that's what we're really talking about here which is a little bit difficult to talk about outside the temple but it's important to know though that this is patriarchal priesthood so barb if a young women's leader or relief society teacher said oh the lessons on the priesthood this month we don't really need this how would you feel about that would you be you gee let's take a guess wow i i would say you know what i appreciate that but we do know that you you as a teacher have been given priesthood power and authority first of all right and i hope that you recognize if you're teaching young women they have all made covenants with the lord's baptism and therefore just as it says in verse 30 they have received the blessings of the lesser priests including the key they have received the blessings of the lesser priesthood including the ministering of angels they in this case they haven't received the key because that is specifically related to the lesser priesthood but they have received the ministering of angels because as president oaks again says any person who makes a covenant with god um receives the blessings of the priesthood and those who have made the baptismal covenant specifically are promised that they would have the holy ghost with them angels speak by the power of the holy ghost and therefore they have the ministering of angels so what a difference it would make in the lives of these young women if a young woman leader would say although the although the deacon although the aaronic priesthood has been ordained or given the key of the ministering of angels keys open doors and so what do you have when you take the sacrament you have the ministering of angels the key opens the door to the ministering of angels but when you make and keep sacred covenants with the lord including the baptism covenant and therefore every time you're taking of the sacrament you're renewing the covenant and therefore god is blessing you with the ministering of angels so what a difference it would make for us you know a 16 year old young woman going to school knowing that not only does she have these this this ministering of angels but as it says later in verse 88 of the section um and whoso receiveth you there i will be also i will go before your face i will be on your right hand and on your left and on my and my spirit shall be in your hearts and my angels round about you to bear you up so women and men both have angels on their left hand and on their right hand round about us to bear us up that that's critical for a young woman going on a mission for the first time leaving her family for the first time going to a movie theater going on her first date uh babysitting at some unknown house for the first time just walking down the street to know that because of her covenants the lord has promised her angels to be around her no no young woman is ever alone my daughter is on week two of her mission my second daughter right now so of course angels are on your right hand on your left you're a missionary and and that's true john except i will say that even for me as a young woman and many young women that i've talked to they don't know what does and doesn't apply to them yeah i'm going to try to summarize here if i take part in an ordinance and make covenants through the priesthood i then have priesthood power regardless of my gender absolutely your priesthood power is associated with the covenants that you make and your righteousness just like for a man and a woman are the same thing so a woman if a woman is is going to the temple and she is making covenants in the temple but she comes home and she's abusive at yelling and fighting just like just like a husband maybe she loses priesthood power based upon her righteousness and her purity but if a woman goes to temple and makes covenants with the lord just as a man who goes the temple makes covenants with the lord and and does his best to be christ-like as he tries to as he becomes more righteous his priesthood power will increase it's the same thing with women women's priesthood power increases the same way men's does is through righteousness the authority is what's different the authority men receive authority through being ordained to a priesthood office in the church that's the ecclesiastical structure so a deacon does receive priesthood authority to be able to perform priesthood functions participating in the passing of the sacrament would be one of those priesthood functions baptism baptizing someone would be a priesthood function a woman will receive priesthood authority through her calling given to her by someone who holds priesthood key she is not ordained to the priestess so therefore a 12 year old girl does not have the authority to be involved in the sacrament like a 12 year old boy nor can an 18 year old girl perhaps baptize because she hasn't been ordained a priest and the aaronic priesthood that is something that he has only been given authority to do but she can participate in the saving of souls she can participate in bringing people to christ she can participate and all that she needs to do under the authority given to her by by the keys of of the bishop or state president and in addition she has authority over covenants that come through her baptism and through in this case it could be her temple covenants at this point so as we continue taking making and keeping sacred covenants our power increases as we are obedient and the authority comes through the covenant and especially in ecclesiastical to the person who has priesthood keys very good and that makes sense absolutely i think yeah this is making perfect sense and uh so just because my son has the aaronic priesthood when i'm out of town he's not presiding in the home he's not going to call on he's not going to be the one calling on people to pray he's uh right my wife is presiding in my in my home together right it's not just when i'm gone well hank you have to be a little bit careful with that because yeah i want to be i want to know what you think about that right when we're talking about presiding um there is it's it we're very specifically taught in in the family proclamation that the man presides in the home but often what is confusing with that term is what does it mean to preside so uh elton perry has a has a great quote where he says um remember brethren that in your role as a leader in the family your wife is your companion since the beginning god has instructed mankind that marriage should unite husband and wife together in unity therefore there is not a president or a vice president in a family the couple works together eternally for the good of the family they are united together in word indeed and in action as they lead guide and direct their family unit they are on equal footing they plan and organize the affairs of the family jointly and unanimously as they move forward so then you say okay well then what is presiding because the world teaches us that presiding means you're in charge well i don't find a single place in the scriptures or in any of the teachings of the prophets where it says the man is in charge traditionally you can see some of that in the world and traditionally you could even see some of that in the church but the brethren especially of late have been very clear that presiding doesn't mean you're in charge in fact in fact recently elder holland said presiding is to love to serve and to sacrifice so um when we're talking about president benson i say unto you with all soberness jesus christ as a model we must follow as we take the spiritual lead in our families especially this is important with your relationship with your wife so so we talk about this word presiding we're not talking about somebody being in charge ruling over we're talking about two people that are equally yoked that that are to love and serve each other and their children we talk about nurturing then we talk about the same thing with the family proclamation well then what is nurturing well a lot of people would say well nurturing means that you are in charge of changing diapers and making sure that they're close on your children well president eyring in 2018 actually says that women are the are to be the the principal gospel teachers in the home that's what nurturing is that's very different if a woman's primary responsibility is to be a gospel instructor that's a different definition of nurturing than the world gives so again when we're looking at these definitions is extremely important that we say not what is the world teaching about the word president nurture and priesthood but what is god teaching about priesthood presiding and nurturing could we go with that to um does that fit nicely with the stripping warriors mothers yeah absolutely because that's it wasn't just they they changed their did they have loin the stripling warriors have loin clouds tank uh cloth diapers i don't know it was no it was they that's exactly what it says they they taught them they taught them the gospel right so i like that so president eyring 2018 said nurturing is the primary gospel teacher did i get that right i'll actually find you the exact quote because i love this quote when he said this he was talking about president president nelson in the same conference talked about how we as women need to have the courage of mother eve to make decisions that would impact our family for eternity which again this is a very church of jesus christ of latter-day saints teaching that we have a prophet who is trying to tell us to become like mother eve to have the courage to make decisions that's very right that's very uniquely us extremely uniquely us and then just the idea that and then he basically says in that same talk that adam was wise enough to partake follow her yeah to follow her and so she's nurturing in this case this is her nurturing role to recognize the importance of what she's doing to understand the gospel of jesus christ and act in accordance that will save for eternity god's children our heavenly parents children that's nurturing so now we see and and adam was wise enough to partake right and that's that's presiding and nurturing at its finest they're working together as a couple she didn't just nurture her children she nurtured her husband oh look at moses that verse and was it moses 5 like 10 and 11 it's like it's so funny to see to see what both of them say and how eve seems to have a bigger picture than adam does in moses fight is it moses 5 10 and 11 because of my transgression my eyes are open and he was like because of our transgression we and she sees the big family picture i mean you read it and she has a bigger and elder oaks has talked about that too uh her special perspective or something that in that episode of the fall but i i'm glad you mentioned that i just finished um a class for my students on i call it our glorious mother eve and i was like yes go find me that phrase anywhere in traditional christianity our glorious mother eve you'll find it here that's what god called her yeah that's i mean that's not just some that's not even i mean i don't want to minimize joseph smith those aren't joseph's words that's that's what god called her glorious mother eve i mean and a prophet today saying that we'd have the courage of mother courage to make decisions like oh i'd love i gotta i'm gonna put that in my mind sign that for you that's that's again that's 2018 but this is a quote from president president um iron that i was referring to he says part of the lord's current sharing of knowledge relates to accelerating his pouring out eternal truth on the heads and to end the hearts of his people he has made clear that the daughters of heavenly father will play a primary role in that miraculous acceleration one evidence of the miracle is his leading his is his leading his living prophets to put far greater emphasis on gospel instruction in the home and within the family and we're definitely seeing this in coveting who knew when the prophet was doing this this was going to happen so then he continues in the proclamation he gave sisters charge to be the principal gospel educators in the family that's that's a pretty strong statement so when we're talking about nurturing we're talking about principal gospel educators we we often talk about how the how the father needs to take this role in teaching but the father and the mother are a team i mean on a personal note i miss my parents but i if somebody were to say who was the principal gospel instructor i would say both i i don't i i i remember one time coming into my mother's room a while after she had passed away her scriptures were still by her bed and and her glasses were on top of it and i remember walking over there and seeing dust and it was the first time in my entire life that i ever saw a speck of dust on my mom's scriptures she studied the scriptures and she taught us from them and i think about my dad and you know recently we've gone through my parents scriptures and we're kind of dividing them out between brothers and sisters and you open them up my mom has probably a lot more writing in her scriptures uh typically my dad's scriptures are just kind of highlighted here and there but there's no question that they were a team and their use of the scriptures in order to help our family she was nurturing my father was presiding but together they were completely united neither was in charge they were they were a team they were a husband and wife that were preparing their children for hopeful exaltation that's that's what the patriarchal priesthood is about that's what section 84 is about it's it's it's people working together in order to bring us back to christ so elder talmud has one of my all-time favorite quotes he has a few regarding women but i love this again referring to temple and the covenants that we make and women he says in the glorified state of the blessed hereafter husband and wife will administer and their respective stations seeing and understanding alike and cooperating to the full in the government of their family kingdom i love that terminology family kingdom and then he says then shall women reign by divine right a queen in the resplendent realm of her glorified state even as exalted man shall stand priest and king unto the most high god mortal i cannot see nor mind comprehend the beauty glory and majesty of a righteous woman made perfect in the celestial kingdom this just this whole idea of husband and wife reigning together and the glorified state of both of these people and i just the beauty of this eternal family we i just don't we we have there is so much more as president nelson says that god is trying to show us and teach us and this this idea of this glorified state of the blessed hereafter this is what we're talking about this is why we're here glorified individuals i have a question then relating to this and then um john and i both received this question before from wonderful faithful women um it's how i think i think this new view could change the not only the answer to the question but even not a question yeah it would change the question yeah which is how do i get my husband to preside to gather us in family prayer to teach us how do i get him to to do that i've received that question before and it seems like what you're teaching here is change your question almost yeah yeah it's not you're trying to get your husband it's what can you do as a couple to draw closer to christ so that together you can help your family yeah i i you know i've known some women in the past that there's those they're almost nervous to become too righteous because they think in so doing they're going to lose their husband or they're going to leave him behind nothing could be further from the truth the more righteous a woman is and the more she tries to draw closer to the lord the lord will guide her and give her through the spirit through the power of the priesthood that she has for the covenants that she has made the the ability to know what to do i i mean that's a promise again from president nelson recently was we will know what we will should do right through the priesthood and so so when you're talking to this woman and saying you know how do i get my husband to do this you're not trying to get your husband to do things you're together as a couple trying to be united and so maybe a question could be how can i better be united with my husband so that the two of us can draw our children unto christ that's that's a different kind of question it may be that that it's not a matter of just sitting back there are so many answers to that question because every couple is different my my husband is very different than my father my mom would respond probably different to my husband than than my than my than i would to my husband but my husband will respond differently to me it's it's a couple and that's one of the reasons why that's such a private relationship it's two people who have been in this case sealed in the temple with all the promises associated with what we were talking about in section 128 that when that couple is sealed in the temple they have they have started an entirely new kingdom and so it's that couple working together those individuals coming together as a couple to figure out how they can make that happen you're not just trying to get your husband to preside you're trying to create an eternal family you're trying to create an eternal couple and so that takes a lot of humility it takes a lot of patience it takes a lot of faith it takes a lot of honesty it takes a lot of becoming like christ for both the wife and the husband christ had to wait a long time for us too i can't tell you how many times and it has gone both directions that my wife will say like oh should we let's gather everybody to pray or i say it you know she's like hey let's go get our pajamas on i'm like oh should we get everybody together to pray and it's not like she's reminding me of my job or i'm reminding her of her job it's we're trying to it's what we do it's what we do at the end of the day yeah yeah i really like um because i've always understood preside but when you use that phrase uh it's not a president and a vice president that is really helpful because because i don't see it that way in our family at all and uh i get the word preside but if you equate it with president then it does sound like there's a vice president and that that's not what what we're after we're equal partners and sometimes it will be oh we gotta have family prayer uh for me or sometimes it will be we gotta have family prayer from my wife and that's how it's supposed to work we're both doing this it's like the vice presider i'd never thought of that before you know you know i i've thought about this a lot and some people have asked you know what does it look like and this sounds like almost a cop-out but i will just say it like this when you see it you know it when you feel it you know it you know what it's like to have a righteous man presiding in your home or in your family and if you don't know then find it for a band or a woman both of both genders can be looking for examples but we know what it's like i can i can imagine what it's like for president nelson to be presiding quote unquote in his family uh he's married to a very strong woman who who has very strong opinions too but i i promise you that those those guys those two are pre he is presiding and she is nurturing in love and righteousness when i when i think about this i think about a time when i was on a church history trip with my family and we were going across martin's cove and we got up you know to the rocky ridge area and coming back down and we went to the to the grave site with where you have the big the big wheel and the bear the bodies buried there and and i remember looking at the stone and just seeing uh the the numbers of genders that were buried for whatever reason that caught my attention as a as a young teenager and i remember asking my mom mom why are there more men than women that have that have that are here like the men are stronger men men have you know bigger muscles and they could have gotten across this plane so well and my mom said and to this day it it it is it rings so true because met righteous men will always sacrifice for others there were more men passing away because the men were giving their food the men were pulling these handcarts remember and so were the women but the men who presided gave their lives for their families they weren't trying to be in control they were trying to save they were trying to exalt and that's what a presiding man does no woman would be afraid of the term preside or find it demeaning if she really understood what a true presider is like in my life i've been blessed by that and i i'm almost hesitant to say that because well frankly i wasn't married till i was 40 and i i didn't have a husband in my family but i sure watched a lot of righteous men home teachers bishops my own father people that i taught with presiding is a very holy sacred responsibility for men and it's not what the world would have us believe and frankly satan would love to make us hate that word it is a very right our father in heaven presides but i don't think our mother in heaven is just doing whatever he says they are a couple united for the purpose of exalting their children it's righteous it's it's powerful so i think when we talk about these words and we talk about this section of the doctrine covenants again i think the lord is really trying to help us to see these people are brought into the presence of god a person when you're when you're bringing a husband and wife into the presence of god to see his face they aren't just standing in pride they're kneeling in righteousness and that's why they weren't ready yet they weren't ready to kneel and see god's face yet and that's part of this couple coming together is as we are trying to become gods and goddesses we have to lose all of those sharp points in our lives and become like christ which the priesthood gives us that opportunity to do our priesthood in our covenants right yeah so i've i've always loved this quote it's tying in the patriarchal priesthood with the temple joseph smith says go through and finish the temple and god will fill it with power and you will then receive more knowledge concerning this priesthood there is only one place where the order of the priesthood which is patriarchal authority is made known and that is in the temple you enter into an order of the priesthood in the temple i just i just love here where joseph smith is very explicit and simply saying we're talking about the patriarchal order of the priesthood and the patriarch order the priesthood is only found in the temple and that's why we need temples built and again that's why we need temples built throughout the world today is because it's all about creating eternal families and eternal families are made in temples well and i think you know we talk about the ironic priests and how important it is i hope in all of this we aren't dismissing the importance of the iranian priesthood because there would be no repentance there would be no baptism there would be no remission of sins if we did not have the aaronic priesthood and so all of this becomes important as well but i will continually say that remember in all of these things although the young men have the key or have been blessed with the key although the bishop has this key in this case all women and all men are receiving these blessings all of them are able to repent all of them are able to be baptized so again president nelson says that oh how he wishes that the women would understand how relevant the restoration of the priesthood is in their lives well it is just as relevant to the young woman it is to the young men sometimes traditionally we teach that is kind of skewed i mean sometimes we'll have the priesthood camp and we'll have a fathers and sons outing and call it the priesthood overnight or something it's no different frankly than having a woman go with her daughter we could call that the priesthood overnight or two depending on the definition of priesthood that you're using okay so in the introduction to the 2020 handbook um there's actually been a change in this introduction which is extremely significant it's not a change in the doctrine the priesthood itself is the doctrine but this is a change in our understanding of this doctrine it simply says this the priesthood is the authority and power of god that's the same it has always existed and will continue to exist without end now note this through the priesthood heavenly father accomplishes his work to bring to pass the immortal and eternal life of man god grants authority and power to his sons and daughters on earth to help carry out this work and until 2020 i have never seen the word daughters in there but there has been a very strong emphasis from our prophet today to help the young women and the women of the church understand that they have priesthood power and authority so it is therefore related and kind of gone through that in their most recent habit of destruction no longer does it say man as if man could be both genders it is actually specifically stating sons and daughters so that the women understand that they also have this priesthood power and authority that's a critical point for for our women and men of the church to understand exactly um and i think if we don't there's a danger here barb if we don't understand this we're gonna end up teaching we're gonna pass down some false traditions one of those could be and what would you say to this that somehow a young man has it in his head that because he is a holder of the priesthood and he's you know he's 14 or 15 and the young women in his ward who are also his same age 14 or 15 that somehow he has more decision-making authority than these young women how do that seems to me a pretty damaging result of not understanding again that's something that's very traditional i mean we teach so much the importance of keys and and priesthood responsibility and authority and that is so traditionally tied to men and and it's true women men preside in the church there is a prophet and he is a man and that is that is the way god has organized it president president hinckley was one time asked why is it that men are ordained to priesthood offices and not women and his answer was i don't know i just we don't know and i love that answer there are so many bad answers to that question and i hear it so many times i appreciate elder oggs statement where he says one of the biggest problems we have in the church is giving answers to questions that god has never revealed amen so let's not give the reasons so so yeah um traditionally you see not just traditionally but in the church you do see in the hierarchical structure of the church that you do have men who are presiding in specific responsibilities so first presidency quorum of the 12 you know presidency of the 70 president stake president bishop those those men have keys and they do so hopefully in great righteousness wielding authority and have have great influence but if you look at these righteous wise men you look president president ballard has spoken so much regarding this a very wise priesthood holy man who holds keys will turn to the relief society president and ask for her opinion on things and take it very take her her opinion very carefully and very seriously so we look at a young man well young men traditionally for some reason have have thought and you brought that before that you know if a young man is the one in the home and and he has been ordained to a priesthood office then he presides well of course he doesn't that that we know president oaks recently has clarified that very carefully but in the church sometimes we think that if a man is ordained to a priesthood office therefore he is going to preside over the women at church that's not the case if let's say a 17 year old young man and a 17 year old young woman were called for whatever reason to um to be in charge of the trek the state trek and no one else was in that room who presides in that meeting well both or neither you both are either yeah because the presiding comes from one who has priesthood keys the bishop could have said you know jenny you're going to be in this meeting with john and you're presiding and that would have been fine because the presiding isn't a priesthood office at priest it isn't related specifically to the priesthood unless the priesthood holder the key holder is actually making that delegation if two of the husband and wife were called to be teachers of a sunday school class say that they were called to work in the primary well who presides in that class well both because this is a calling they're no longer at home right so now they're at church they're both called by one who has priesthood keys the bishop and so they're both given equal authority it's extremely important in fact i've asked many many students over the years similar questions to this and most of the time until recently they've been very wrong so it's a tradition that we that we need to work on for sure you feel like we're we're turning a corner though we're starting to yeah and and just and just for the purposes of of our discussion i hope we recognize this isn't a problem just in the church of jesus christ the lord is saying i don't want to call it a problem this isn't just an issue this is i mean i serve as a chaplain this is a this is a tendency throughout most religions this is a tendency throughout the world i mean we have been working on women's rights and women's issues for for years and years and years and years and like i said joseph joseph smith was very forward thinking we have a prophet today who is very forward thinking president nelson has opened the doors and and turned the keys to women in ways that that we have not seen in years but but this is not a problem of of just our church this isn't the struggle that just women of the churches christ of latter-day saints have this is this is something that is very cultural and i think our prophet is helping us to get out of the culture and into the gospel and how would you explain to a young woman why um it didn't start out this way right like why didn't it why why didn't when right when the church is organized did the lord you know it's pretty much here here it is in 1832 but i get that sometimes from students is if it's the lord's church why does it have to learn right the lord can could tell me that i should use calculus today but unless i started with basic one plus one mathematics i would never be able to do calculus so even though he could reveal calculus to me i still need to practice basic mathematics skills to get there line up online line upon line preceptor probably said we talk about this so often people say well why didn't the lord just tell the women well what would have happened in that day and what what would have happened in in the 1860s and what would have happened in the 1920s i mean you think about the world in progression god is very wise and teaching line upon line these doctrines and these these principles that are set here are in the scriptures this is this is straight 1830s it is so there and it is very clear i mean he is establishing the relief society with the intent that women are going to receive their endowments and receive power and authority it was taught in nauvoo in the 1840s very clearly to these women they understood it they pass it along eliza snow passes it you see these all through these women of the church but it's as if we as a culture are trying to catch up to the gospel of jesus christ it's been there all along we're just finally to the point where we're really figuring it out and we have a prophet who is making it a a key emphasis today right president nelson in the last three years has asked the women of the church to study priesthood power and authority two times consecutively in general conference he doesn't do that typically repeat himself but he actually says i repeat my plea for the women of the church to study priesthood power that that's that's uncommon and then he gives them specific instruction on how to do that that was 2019 and 2020 president nelson has done that and and and you know sometimes women struggle with that because they think well if women are studying priesthood power and authority maybe they're trying to be ordained to a priesthood office there are a number of reasons why why women don't study that and many of it is just because there's a culture of if women try to study it then they are trying to change the prophet no the prophet is the one asking so it's important for the men to help the women also to understand because if there's not a supportive man behind us a woman who's trying to follow the prophet it's very difficult if a man says to a woman why are you studying the priesthood uh are you trying to be ordained to a priesthood office well he just slammed that woman down pretty hard even though he may not have been intended that the smallest nuance of negativity in this topic is extremely damning to women because it has been a hot topic and many people have struggled with it over the years so in this topic as we're studying section 84 it's extremely important that that questions are allowed and and asked for that testimonies are born that that we understand that we have a literally a prophet of the church today who was pleading using the word pleading coming from him for the women of the church to understand their role in the priesthood so it's important that the men understand that that that is that that is the direction that the women have been given by the prophet please join us for part two of this podcast you

Channel: Our Turtle House

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Keywords: followhimpodcast, followhim, follow him, comefollowme, come follow me, scripture study, gospel study, women and the priesthood, priesthood authority, women and priesthood authority, aaronic priesthood, melchizedek priesthood, churchofjesuschrist, church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, church of jesus christ

Id: 6aGX3rO2cCg

Length: 64min 1sec (3841 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 23 2021