Follow Him Podcast: Episode 29, Part 2–D&C 77-80 with guest Dr. Craig Manscill | Our Turtle House

welcome to part two of this week's podcast now let's move on to section 78 and this is again in kirtland ohio and this has some interesting stuff in it about uh a firm united firm consecration all this can you give us some some background on what's going on here and then we'll jump in all right well this is uh even today as i read some of the commentaries and there seems to be a confusion that exists and a lot of it has to do with terminology whether it's law of consecration um united order enix order united firm the literary firm also comes in play here so let's see if we can sort some of the terminology out let's see if we can figure out what's going on here and i think that we can come away with an understanding here of why this particular section so historically this is a revelation that's again higher in ohio and by the way you can see look at the date it's march so this revelation is prior to a very catastrophic event that will happen to joseph and cindy on what the 25th of march you remember what that was the tar and feathering of them so this revelation is prior to that because it's still hiram ohio the and feathering will put joseph's life at risk and he will now leave hiram and go down to this second mission to missouri to talk to the saints down there about organizing what's called the united order oh so you can see that between sections 81 and 82. higher in ohio in 81. jackson county missouri in 82. so he makes that move right there when the saints were prom uh were called to to gather the ohio in sections 37 and 38 they were promised they would get received the law of the lord and when they they arrived there the lord kept his promise and gave us section 42. in section 42 the beginning of the principles of consecration were introduced and bishop partridge was called as a bishop to administer consecration so the lord know knew he knew edward partridge's heart he knew who he was knew he needed him and it raised him up for the important purpose of becoming the first bishop of the church and administering principles of consecration and a order if you want to say that of how that would function so consecration was a set of principles now what we're talking about here is how do you take care of the temporal church and consecration is about taking care of the poor which is a responsibility of the children of god so in section 42 the law of consecration has begun to to develop the church has three temporal needs three temporal needs we need to buy land build buildings on the land and to publish the word of god publish that word of god whether it be the book of commandments the doctrine covenants the uh the book of mormon uh children's literature the hymns even the hymns right the hymns of the church yes section 25 we have a need we if we're going to get salvation into the hearts of the people they need to read it they need to feast upon this word and that the great revelations in the dnc they need and so that's a temporary a temporal need is there needs to be a publishing arm of the church there needs to be a building committee for the kirtland temple there needs to be um an agent who purchases land in zion like bishop partridge was doing down down there and somebody has to physically meet those needs and the commerce the the economics of that is this temporal nature that has to be taken care of so unfortunately up until this time the law of consecration the lord had had established and called for a storehouse to be built it's now march of 1832 and there's no bishop storehouse it hasn't been organized the laws the the principles of consecration have simply what they've been taught but they haven't been enacted uh you do have the missouri church set up at this time right there's already been those were sections 57 58 right bishop parchers was called to go down there and live they were to live the law of consecration down there and they begun that okay great but you know the gilbert store hadn't been set up down there and neither had the whitney store been set up at this time in the kirtland area with uh bishop the second bishop of the church so the second bishop is nil k whitney in the kirtland area and the first bishop of the church is bishop partridge edward partridge down in jackson county missouri so how do we finance then setting up a bishop storehouse that's a building or we're going to have to somehow use some building or structure for a storehouse or we're going to need some land for that or we're going to need you know publish something so how do we do that the answer is section 78. that's what's going on here is how are we going to get the ball rolling we need to have money okay what i asked my students at byu with this section i said how many of your how many of your families are entrepreneurs and you own businesses and i and you know several hands go up and tell me about what your your father does or what what do they do and all kinds of things will come up you can imagine that now i would say to them if you would lived in joseph smith's day at this time in section 78 you you would have been asked to consecrate your business to the church into an organization what was called the united order and the funds you've now just given up you'll still take care of your business but now you've you've given it over to consecration and you can live off some of the proceeds but the lion's share of dollars are going to go for the kingdom of god can you do it so the law of consecration and the united order are two different things they really are yes they are law of consecration is what uh bishop partridge is is uh working with down there in jackson county and jackson county missouri where you bring all your your goods to the bishop and you turn it over to him and then he turns back to you what your wants and your needs are yeah this is different it's an organization it's a business organization with a co-op of businesses brought together and then you live off some of the proceeds and it goes into this corporate front i was going to say the principles of consecration remain long after we leave missouri you're right right so what's the the law of the principles of consecration which some are talked about in this revelation are eternal and they will they're in the church still today did we in you'll hear oh we ended the law of consecration in 1834 because of the what happened in jackson county missouri well we we ended that practice but the principles still were eternal well then what comes along tithing in dnc section 119 innate in the the far west period uh 1836 the the we organized what's called the welfare program so but the thing is programs will change from the earliest days of the church of how to fund our are the three things that i talked about buying land building buildings and printing buying printing presses all of that will change but that's the purpose of why we need to get land to build a temple in kirtland ohio et cetera so the same as the same idea of caring for the poor that will remain always even though the programs change it will always programs will change over time and they'll add to and take away but the concept of a bishop storehouse has always existed there still exists these the bishop storehouse and the eternal principles and that's what leads us into section 78. i know that uh in the past i think president uh reagan had visited welfare square downtown and and saw that whole thing happening and it's a really positive positive things when we've brought presidents of the united states over town to welfare square to see how we take care of our our our poor and needy in the church it is impressive and we'll hit a verse on that in just a moment john that i think it will be very meaningful i wanted to read to you all the members who actually were part of it uh because we'll add some of them in other revelations as uh you'll cover later on there's sydney rigdon i mean joseph smith cindy rigdon nil k whitney and they're up in the kirtland area and there's edward partridge these are the ones in missouri edward partridge sydney gilbert john whitmer oliver cowdery w.w feltz and martin harris now the the latter group there they were they these individuals were over the literary firm of the church or the printing arm of the church okay and so oliver cowdery because of his work on the book of mormon publication and w.w phelps remember he was a printer himself out of canandaigua new york and these people were doing the printing part of it but when you have nil k whitney and john gilbert uh they're helping out with the bishop storehouses and as the bishops of the church later on they'll add frederick g williams who is a landowner and so joseph says we're going to need land so land to build the kirtland temple so by the way the building of the kirtland temple was plan b for the savior plan a was to build a temple in jackson county missouri moses elias and elijah should have appeared there but section 101 and teaches us that they they failed they failed in in in turning over a shovel and building the foundation and getting that temple up and going and there's a whole parable about that in in in 101 and you've got to you're going to love that when you get to that but plan b and that's why joseph always stayed in kirtland you ever wonder why joseph doesn't go down and live in missouri that's zion that's designated zion the new jerusalem why isn't the prophet down there the lord said i want you back up in kirtland because the lord knew what was going to happen in the long run plan b needed to be in place if we if they fail in missouri and they did then kirtland becomes plan b and that's why frederick g williams is called into the united firm and and that's really the term we would like to use as united firm first as much as united order and uh so all right uh i liked what you said there craig because joseph smith never lives in jackson county he lives in missouri but he lives in far west which isn't in jackson county he never gets to live he visits right a number of times but never as many as four visits down there now before he goes down to live in 1838 so yeah it's it's a big deal and it was a sore spot for the missouri saints all along uh like the prophet of the lord shouldn't you be down here we we need your leadership and okay doctrine covenant 78 3 and 4 for verily i say unto you the time has come and is now at hand and behold and lo it must needs be that there be an organization of my people in regulating and establishing the affairs of the storehouse for the poor of my people both in this place ohio and in the land of zion for a permanent and everlasting establishment and order unto my church to advance the cause which ye have espoused to the salvation of man and to the glory of your father who is in heaven so there you have it you know this is the organization of what's called the order or the united firm uh and it must needs be organized in other words if we don't do this we're not going to be able to progress with what temporal salvation leads to eternal salvation spiritual salvation you can't advance the cause unless you have you know i know you can meet outside under the heavens but you need a building overhead sooner or later for the the kingdom to meet i mean we have the conference center we have you know our temples we have everything so in order for salvation to progress in a temple we need to buy the land and build the temple and so this is in order and this it must needs be and i really like that it must happen this organization we've got to get this going so i love the way you know the lord used martin harris in the early days of the church who eventually gave every penny he had for the coming forth of the book of mormon and the publishing of the book of mormon there's so much that he did until he had no more to give but he's included in this organization so that he can have some means to live from day to day and to contribute uh on the printing uh of things craig there are craig there are some today who might say well you don't need religion you can just be spiritual this is the lord saying we if we want to do an eternal work we're going to need some temporal things in place uh you you're not going to get exalted children through okay everyone just be spiritual so we need to take care of our poor through a bishop storehouse with with commodities to help them both clothing and and food and whatever they need for a permanent and everlasting establishment to advance the cause what is the cause you have espoused to the salvation of man so the cause is to bring about salvation and exaltation as a result of this order that's being organized and so those are important verses that's talking about the organization unfortunately this will only last two years by the way uh the organization will last from 18 from march of 18 uh 32 to 1834 in dnc 104 it'll be disorganized largely because of what happened down in jackson county missouri when that all fell apart in 1834 we lost our bishop storehouse the temple site our land everything was taken from us even though we we tried to get it back through legal means it never came back to us the church was now in financial straits and difficulties here we go in verses 5 and 6 are now principles that both the united order this this co-op organization of businesses that have been brought together to benefit the church so you can obtain heavenly things unless you have uh earthly things supporting you and if you're not equal in earthly things you cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things for if i will or if you will that i give unto you a place in the celestial world you must prepare yourselves by doing the things which i've commanded you and required of you what's been commanded to build a temple in jackson county missouri and to do that you've got to purchase land okay what else has been commanded to publish my word to bring forth the book of mormon to bring forth the doctrine covenants this is 1832 and they're trying to get the book of commandments off the ground here in 1831 by 1832 is sitting down there with the publishing group in jackson county missouri you remember the publishers remember the book of commandments or is on the press at the time that the mobs come in so the book of commandments is there they're just taking a long time to get it published and that's because of the press situation and paper shortage and things that are going on in jackson county missouri so the the lord is saying uh i've commanded you to do things therefore this this is the purpose of the organization john could you read verses not read verse 8 please and now verily thus saith the lord it is expedient that all things be done unto my glory by you who are joined together in this order so what what reach jumps out to me on that verse is all things are done unto my glory temporal salvation is also the spiritual salvation of this church and it's it's essential if we're going to get the church out of debt finally you know during joseph f smith's administration we've got to have a system economically to fund the needs of the church and of course you know tithing is really going to be a big thing in dnc 119 in the far west period so the chur the lord has his plan and joseph smith learned that in dnc 111 didn't he joseph smith decided i can figure out how to pay the debts of the church with that buried treasure in salem massachusetts right and the lord remember what the lord counsel joseph don't be worried about your what your debts sooner or later i'm going to bring about tithing and sooner or later we'll get all of our debts paid and we'll and we paid every dime and interest more by the way during gordon b hinckley's administration we went back to the restoration period and every dollar that we borrowed to put commodities in the bishop storehouse in kirtland missouri we were indebted to uh merchants in buffalo and in new york gordon b hinckley found the descendants of those people and paid him and paid him interest no kidding no kidding and now that they're organizing this they're deciding how is it that they're going to legally do this and uh who's going to administer them so sydney rigdon will has a tannery and he's donating that business to the church and so um and otherwise satan seeketh to turn their hearts away from the truth that they become blinded and understand not the things which are prepared for them and so you know you need to be careful when it comes to temporal things we're easily blinded by money temporal things blind us and it was a great sacrifice to give up these these businesses could you imagine your wife when you went home of your bishop partridge and said not only are we going to give up our business to the church we've been asked to leave our lovely home and go to jackson county missouri that craig that is just so crucial to understand here the moment we mention money there seems to be a different feel from people right we're like spirituality i love it i love the book of mormon i love the spirit now let's talk about giving money and we kind of there's a i i think you're exactly right money can blind us um and the lord says over and over right what does he say in section 121 why are they not chosen because their hearts are on the things of this world why do you think that is why do we i i think it's a great question you know where your treasure is so is your heart and if you're if your treasure is your money and your bank account well okay that's where your heart is that's that you're going to live a different life versus a person of consecration who and and i think martin harris is a great example of that and we're going to get to one named john tanner here in a minute but yeah i look at verse 14 helps us with your answer that through my providence notwithstanding the tribulation so it's not going to be easy the tribulation which shall descend upon you so it it will be a tribulation to give up your money and to give up your your livelihood as a consecration that the church may stand independent above all creatures beneath the celestial world to me that means government to stand independent of govern government welfare systems that we as latter-day saints take care of our own which brought about the humanitarian aid department of the church where we collect goods and services and prepare to help in disasters around the world and in whatever way that we can help countries that are crippled from disease or need shots or whatever that were all the places we're into and hank you just said it what is our consecration sheet today it's our tithe when we fill out that tightening form what else is on it not just fast offerings and tithing there's missionary work there's all the ways that we can give and consecrate our monies to the church not if we don't have the money then we have our talents we have our time and that's what we commit to consecrate to god and that's why that's a consecration is an everlasting principle consecration humbles us and we become meek and when we could become teachable the greatest teacher you know moses was known as the meekest man alive with the children of israel and he was teachable for god he was a clean slate to work with as was joseph smith we need to be like that we need to be teachable meek and humble that we can give under consecration this way john john is more teachable and humble and generous and giving than me uh i i want to be more like him because i i think craig you're you're section 78 makes me and hopefully there's a couple others out there go okay like okay because whose kingdom are you trying to build right is it yours or is it god's because you can't it's really hard to build both but oh i don't know why i'm i'm really happy that the lord is going to say at the end of this i'll lead you along i'll help you yeah i think what you were all talking about fast offerings tithing and all this and and then our time and our talents i just want to restate what we stated before all of those things are in the bishop storehouse today and a bishop can call upon people's talents and their gifts and not only their money but their other things that they can do to help to help what's the phrase advance the cause oh craig you're killing me here yeah i i love this here and go to verse 17 verily verily i say unto you ye are little children ye have not as yet understood how great the blessings the father has in his own hands and prepared for you in other words you're like little children you're just we're just trying to build consecration principles amongst you but why can we do that today is because this church and file members do obey the law of consecration they do give them their their funds and without that the church wouldn't be where it is today the cause of zion would not be pushed along as we are we we have everything that consecration is about the church is still actively engaged in we have it we have a building system we have a temple system we have all the things the temple department everything is in place that the temporal part of the church can bring about salvation for mankind and he says you don't know now you're just little children but let me show you where we're at in the year 2021. yeah i remember the story of the widow's mite where the widow puts what she has all she can give into the treasury and the savior says she's given more than everybody else and it's because she's consecrated right just it's not the amount it's where your heart is oh and and then the things you're expressing right now that i've heard both of you just say i you just expressed what the lord said in verses 18 and 19 you cannot bear all things nevertheless be of good cheer i will lead you along the kingdom is yours the blessings are there and the riches of eternity is yours and he who receiveth all things with thankfulness i just heard you say that john thankfulness shall be made glorious the things of this earth shall be added unto him and even a hundred fold yay more and i just thought what a zion idea president hinckley had with that perpetual education fund we've got all this let's help our brothers and sisters go to college so that they can be prepared in temporal things so that they can have the riches of attorney as well and i read these stories and they're just amazing and i think what what a great zion idea it's in the philippines it's in mexico i don't even know how many countries it's in now but maybe you know better than i do craig and hank but i think it's self-sustaining now they don't um it's not on the tithing um form anymore but the perpetual education fund what a zion idea that was of president hinckley just this last week i had a a student knock on my door he was going through the hallway knocking on doors and i heard and my door was the third door he knocked on and i i was there and i said hello come on in can i help you and he was a from bolivia and he had some questions about the gospel and we had a discussion and i i said what are you doing here where are you from and he says i'm here i served a mission i was from bolivia and i says wow what a privilege it is to have you here at our university you've come all the way from bolivia and tell me about your circumstances and he he just teared up and and he told me how poor the family was and and he said the fact that i'm here is an absolute miracle and he's getting a good education and he's going to go back to bolivia and i'm telling you the perpetual education fund was a blessing in his life and i he'll be a leader of the church one day back there and yeah this is what we're talking about and this is the outcome and god could see it all in the end and these principles are eternal and they're celestial and they help us to become who we need to become as a church that we can identify our poor and take care of them so i love this revelation craig you mentioned john tanner we've talked about the partridges edward and lydia we've talked about uh sydney and his wife are you ready to go into poverty with me sweetheart uh no sydney rigdon he said are you ready to go into poverty with me to his to his wife and she said let's go right yeah and sydney gilbert and and the whitney's newell and elizabeth but you mentioned john tanner and i think people would be interested in that story of consecration it i know they they made a movie about it but i'm not an emotional guy i don't i don't uh i i don't get emotional very often but the one thing that gets to me is when you you both were talking about something like the perpetual education fund it's when someone has they have whatever resources what and they and they see someone in need and they go to them and lift them up that's isn't that the message of the law of consecration right is to go and lift your brothers and sisters to where you are and to me there's just something about it that just touches my my soul when i see that happen when someone who has a lot to give like a martin harris and just hands it over so people can be blessed to me it is um it is it is a christ-like it is it is savior-centered love a savior-centered people if if i remember my uh hand cart pioneer stories there were some people who sacrificed all a lot to build hand carts for everybody else and gave up a lot of their wealth that way if if i'm getting 17 miracles right in the movie but i wanted to add one thing i'm um i'm a lot older than hank my mission call was uh over the signature of spencer w kimball and he used to talk about the threefold mission of the church proclaim the gospel perfect the saints and redeem the dead and i used to remember hearing that a lot that's what the church is for president monson added care for the poor and needy to that and the the way it's been restated in the latest handbook is really really nice it's very concise in fact you could summarize it in four words live care invite unite and it's live the gospel of jesus christ of the work of salvation live the gospel of jesus christ care for the poor and needy invite all to come unto christ and unite families for eternity and it's a little easier to explain to an eleven-year-old kid we're going to unite families than to say go redeem the dead kid you know but you can tell him that he can do indexing and temple work and so i love the way it's been restated live the gospel of jesus christ care for the poor needy invite all to come unto christ and unite families for eternity and this this i just thought section 78 is a care for the poor needy thing and now that is articulated as you know one of the four missions of the church yeah well said well i think we can move on to section 70 uh 9 and 80 and cover these two sections these are sections that become very near and dear to some of the brethren i know older bednars had a lot to say about missionary work and uh i one of my ecclesiastical callings right now is to work in a branch presidency at the mtc and uh even though we're in a hiatus right now and elder bednar is one of the favorite speakers to come there and he's spoken about these two revelations about uh the importance of verse two about doing work under the direction of the comforter and uh and in in directing uh a missionary or what he would do for any given day but historically what's going on here is that these revelations you can see it's march it's 1832 i and this revelation is given to a man by the name of jared carter jared carter has come down to uh to hire him ohio and he's asked joseph what would the lord have of me i've just returned from my mission uh in the east jared carter had been born in benson vermont he had been all the way from ohio and gone along uh the water routes and taught the gospel along the way and had had a very successful mission this was he had served about three missions at this time jared carter come from a wonderful family he had two brothers simeon carter and john carter they were great missionaries these are young these are young young young men in their early 20s who want to serve and do prosecuting work jared carter was a great journalist he kept the journal of all his missions as did uh simeon and john we have their records and so we really know where they went for these missionary activities and joe and jared gets down there and all i by the way i wanted to mention jared was baptized by hiram smith and he was one of the early members of the coalsville branch oh when when jared carter first heard the the book of mormon preached and he read it it was like parley p pratt experience for jared carter it was like a a bolt of lightning to a soul and he he joined the church before he went home and then told his wife guess what i've done i joined the church and we're moving to ohio and it changed the the carter's lives forever because he'll convert his two brothers they'll all join the church they'll all end up in ohio they live in amherst i've been to there the what do you think the lord tells him in this revelation joseph approaches and asks the lord and and you compare these two revelations together because in section 80 you have stephen burnett and eden smith now they're called on a mission at the same time very much the same experience except for where they're called to go in these two revelations is what's important here the difference between their missions notice that jared is called jared carter should go again into where the eastern countries eastern country from place to place from city to city in the power of ordination in other words he's to what he's called back on his same mission he just finished now what would you what would you why would you what would you ask joseph yeah why are you sending me back to the same place i just yeah i just finished my mission i i went up to my hometown i spent i i was gone six months and two days i baptized over 30 people and look uh you want to send me back they just heard me preach up there it sounds like a missionary who's called back to the same area in his mission by his mission president and the missionary would say gosh president you don't didn't you know i had served there for six months and you know or it's called the the good sister brother who called the nursery and six months ago they had just been released from the nursery and now they've been called back to the nursery you know and and that's the kind of question i searched my time right i served my time i've already served there i you know ken is there another place i can serve can i go up to michigan later on he will go to michigan and so jared carter he doesn't question it by the way he says if you want me to go i will go back okay now given what we've just been talking about here what why is eden smith when he gets his call in verse section 80 when uh stephen burnett where you'll go into the world and you'll preach to the gospel uh by the sound of your voice and in as much as you desire companion i'll give you eden smith by the way in section 75 um steven burnett had had it another companion named uh aim i believe is uh ames given to him and somehow that didn't work out and now he's giving it eden smith go and preach my gospel and it doesn't matter if you go east or west it matters not you cannot go and miss jared carter's like hey i you know so it doesn't matter you can't go amiss as long as you are doing the lord's work but jared you're going to the eastern and it's almost as if you missed somebody while you were there it's almost said now i'm going to send you back and if you will do what verse 2 says i will send you upon the by the comforter and you shall teach the truth along the way and you'll find him you'll find the person i need in the kingdom and you can go get him because you're going to follow the comforter and so that's the story is that jared carter goes back out back to benson vermont preaches the gospel there he baptizes practically a whole congregation of other people there 30 or something people by the time he's finished with his mission he's baptized how many 79 this is section 79 i don't know how that worked out that way but the story of the one the one that we needed while all of them the converts were important he ends up in bolton new york and in bolton new york he places his advertisement to preach and the mayor of the town has to open up the building and the mayor of the town says i guess i have to open up the hall he and he opposed actually this the mormon missionaries to preach that evening but he came anyway he listened to them he heard of their message of the apostasy the restoration the coming forth of the book of mormon and the organization of christ church most of all which intrigued him he heard about the restoration of gifts of the spirit and that miracles existed still including the gift of healing he invited the missionaries jared carter and his brother companion simeon to come with him down into their home that night and this man was named john tanner who as you now know had cancer on his leg as the church made this great video and as you know he was healed that night and baptized in the lake right next to his home now john tanner was the mayor of the town and he owned more property than anybody in town he owned the hotels he had a mercantile store he had all kinds of businesses he was a wealthy man and a man of great respect and when he joined the church his best friends thought that he was he'd been you know misrepresented and he had joined a church and that this was the worst thing that could ever happen to him in his family but he realized the power and the gift of the priesthood and he felt the spirit and of course john tanner joins the church it was a year later that the spirit said to him and he said to his wife we need to sell what we can and move to kirtland ohio the lord needs me there why because john tanner walked into kirtland with money hanging out of his pockets and and it would result in the purchase of the land for what the temple the kirtland temple and that's why frederick g williams was put on the committee of the united order because he had the land and john tanner had the money and the lord crossed their paths and now what do you have you have a missionary following this comforter in the spirit and the lord found who he needed as you know john tanner will give uh a met a thousands of dollars to joseph smith in the church and as you know from the movie one day joseph said to john in the streets of nauvoo john i fear that i will never be able to pay the debts to the church and that's the the movie john's tearing up his ious and he says joseph you know me nothing and then john joseph says what can i do for you john and he says give me a blessing and he blessed him that his posterity he and his posterity would never want for the things of this life and if you know some of the tanners in the church oc tanner and elton tanner tanner clothing company all these businesses susan tanner susan tanner served as the young women's president of the church yeah john 10 and so the tanners they love their their john tanner and his story and if um by the way for those listeners who's never seen the movie you can just it's on the church's website it's called treasure in heaven the john tanner story and if you've never seen it it's worth your time it's a marvelous resource and you see the lord the lord can take someone like jared carter and accomplish the purposes of the church and he knows his resources and where they're at and it's the same the same thing is happening day in and day out of the church today and what a blessing it is for someone like john tanner back in that day versus the people today in our wards and our stakes in our branches all over the world who come and help and lift up those members of the church who are in need and contribute to the church very liberally way beyond their their means of their tithing and their and their uh fast offerings and they're truly a consecrated individual and john tanner's an example of that so i i have a little follow-up story as you know i'm i take all the byu students out on the church history sites and one of the things we ask our students to do is to prepare a a biographical sketch of someone that's important to you in your life well i had a student named evan smith and evan said i'm a descendant of john tanner i'd like to do a report on him i said we're gonna go to bolton new york where he was baptized and i'm telling you he was excited and he he did his report now this is the this is the miracle that happened that day we were coming down from we just come over from sharon vermont the day before around after lunch we pulled i pulled the bus off and we we drove through the town of bolton new york and we were looking for a place to get off the bus and uh and i said oh this looks like there's a place let's pull off there so we got off the bus and we crowded into this little parking lot and there was a home with a business there like a like a law firm or something and we could see the lake just 100 yards away and he told the whole story of and be he was baptized right there and we said well how do you know that he's baptized right there and he says well brother mancell didn't you see the sign in front of this home this is where john tanner lived and i go i didn't know that how did we get here he says brother mansell i thought you knew where his home was and that's why you pulled off here i go no i pulled off up here because we were just looking for a place and this looked like the best place and you know i wish i could send the spirit said turn off here but there was the sign home of john tanner he lived right there and we stood there and gave the report now every time i take the group through we go right to that place and and because we always have somebody from the tanner family so that's a fun story that is that is a fantastic story the the things we've been talking about today in these incredible early saints just uh i don't know it just fills me with the desire to to be to be a better latter-day saint i just want to be better because of all these these stories that we hear um and i think that kind of ties into i don't know what we were just saying about these intersections that god had arranged for jared carter for john tanner kind of takes us back to section 77 where the history of the world's already been written the lord knows exactly what he's doing he's putting people in places and in situations to accomplish his work uh craig dr mansell you are a historian and a scholar you've been teaching this uh from the from church history for for decades now you don't look it but it has been decades now 44 years 44 years of teaching these things you've taken as you've mentioned hundreds of students through these sites church history sites so i think john and i and our listeners would would be greatly blessed to just hear your personal thoughts on joseph smith and his contemporaries in the restoration at one time in my my career as a religious educator i was asked to i just finished my phd at brigham young university and we had six children and we were at the wilms of uh seminaries and institute administration to to go serve now wherever they ask us and i remember the call came to to go work with the seminaries and institutes uh in new york city and uh wow i thought that's a that's a going to be a long ways from home uh i was hesitant to take my family across the country and uproot them out of their schools and how difficult that was going to be uh i was hoping for something to stay in utah actually i was hoping to be i never thought i would end up at brigham young university at that time in the i believe that was in uh 1987. and uh and but the call came for us by us and i is i treated it as a call to head out there and it was a tribulation and and i went i went dragging my feet my wife was probably more optimistic than i was and on the way out we were stopping we were traveling along i-80 and we were approaching kirtland ohio and i says dear i think we have some time and the sights are still opened in in kirtland ohio can we go and visit it and she says uh let's do it so we we he we dropped the kids in the in and we had an opportunity we met with the missionaries there and they directed us they were going to take us through what was called the new k whitney store the bishop's storehouse for the kirtland saints and the residents of joseph smith and the school of the prophets and i i i knew and loved the place that was my i served my mission there in ohio i remember the new kate whitney store when it had nothing but a frame and it was dilapidated and fallen down and of course the church had restored it i loved the place and i i needed i needed that chance and opportunity to somehow help me to understand and accept taking my family across the country i remember i went up into i was in the noodle i was in the room of the school of the prophets upstairs and the missionary had talked and we had read from section 88 about the establishment of the school and we weren't pressed for time and as the missionaries finished they bore their testimony and the spirit was just cut out with a knife and i sat there for a moment and it was as if a vision opened up to me and i was look sitting in the room and as i was watching the door joseph smith appeared in the door and looked in nodded his head and brigham young and john taylor and wilford woodruff they all walked by and they nodded their head it was as if i was seeing that in a and i i just saw it oh my gosh what what has been wrong with me here i am in the place of consecration here i am and i had i walked out of the nil k whitney store 110 committed to head out for four years to serve in new york city long island bronx the queens brooklyn manhattan uh i had the experience of a lifetime it wasn't easy and there was tribulation and it was financially difficult but i tell you it changed my life forever i wouldn't be here today if i had not gone and taken that assignment i promise you that so what i'm saying to you i've studied the history of the church i've been in its historical sites i've been in the journals and the records and i have students from time to time who come and ask me all the questions about translation of the book of mormon or the mountain meadow massacre or anything they want to ask me about the troubling things they find on the internet and my question to them is this what is it that you've studied that is willing to take you out of the church would you please tell me what it is because i want to know it somehow it's escaped me would you tell me and and they'll just tell me all of it well this this this this this this and i said please tell me more i understand everything that you said and i'm staying in the church why are you choosing to step away from the church and they look at me and said well because of this this is and i said there isn't anything that can remove me from the church within its history or its doctrine or the the weaknesses of men and women in the church i've testified to you that joseph smith is the prophet of the restoration it has been restored through him i testify that the priesthood and salvation and exaltation can be found and that we can return and live with god i am holding on to those truths and i know them in my heart to be true in jesus name amen amen amen john we uh another episode of follow him is in the books and we have been just as blessed i i feel like i feel like you and i are kind of uh we're what did we do we must have helped an old lady across the street in the pre-existence it's nothing we did here uh that we deserve this that was just wonderful and uh i boy i can't wait to go to the school of prophets again i just want to sit there and imagine that same scene so john i have to tell you a story about you i was in nauvoo with all my students and we were in a church meeting in and you were there too and you had all your you had a group really and you were behind us in the back and my students would say brother man so that's john by the way back there and i and i said and they were i said yes i know where that's john and they said can we have him teach us brother vance could we get john by the way to teach us and i said i would love to have john teach us who and it would be a privilege to have him around my students just revered you john and they love you and you've done more for the youth of the church you both you and hank i will tell you and hank i was at i was a carthage and i brought the students there my byu students and there you were on the lawn and you had a busload of people in front of you and you were talking about the martyrdom and it i sat and listened from a distance and i was edified and educated and i remember that i remember that and i said we are in good hands and i will tell you you two are larger than life and i love you and thank you for your service in the kingdom because you've changed hundreds of lives and i just wanted you to know that well we can't tell you how grateful we are to you that you would come on and bring your expertise because you have changed these sections for me oh absolutely um and uh yeah i i every time we have an expert on like you craig i think oh now that's my favorite section of the doctrine covenant i you know section 77 before i thought well that's pretty interesting you know and i just kind of move on now i look at it with new eyes and this and that mission call section 79 you might just skip over oh it's so short yeah you might we want to thank uh of course dr manziel for being with us uh but we want to thank all of you who who listened uh and spent uh some time with us today we're grateful for your support couldn't do it without you we're thankful for our executive producers uh steve and shannon sorensen we we love you both uh and of course we have a great crew who helps us out john that behind the scenes and we need to make sure they get acknowledged david perry lisa spice jamie nilson kyle nilsson will staughton and maria hilton thank you all for your help we love our team and we hope that you'll join us on our next episode of follow [Music] him you

Channel: Our Turtle House

Views: 10,655

Rating: 4.8877192 out of 5

Keywords: followhim podcast, follow him podcast, church of jesus christ, churchofjesuschrist, church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, pioneer saints, joseph smith

Id: yvOfvOgA338

Length: 58min 1sec (3481 seconds)

Published: Sat Jul 10 2021