Follow Him Podcast: Episode 27, Part 1–D&C 71-75 with guest Brad Wilcox | Our Turtle House

[Music] welcome to follow him a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their come follow me study i'm hank smith and i'm john by the way we love to learn we love to laugh we want to learn and laugh with you as together we follow him friends welcome to another episode of follow him my name is hank smith i am here with my timeless co-host john by the way welcome john but you looked at my face and you just thought man he's been around a long time no john timeless you are timeless you really are you're generations have listened to you um now um i we just want to remind everybody that we have uh some social media platforms you can find us on instagram and facebook we have a website follow him dot co follow him dot co uh where you can find um sources uh uh the transcripts of of our interviews uh and we'd love for you to rate and review our podcast if you wouldn't take it just 30 seconds to do that really helps us out now um john i know you i know i'm excited for today but i know you were even more excited for today because uh this was a discussion we've had for quite a quite a while a couple of months you've wanted this one to happen so why don't i let you take it from here tell us who we have with us oh we're we're so excited to have uh dr brad wilcox and i've known him as brad for years i got home from my mission in the 80s and started efy and watched this speaker get up and we were laughing we were learning we were touched and i had never seen anything like it i thought this guy is awesome and let me just read his bio and then we'll add our own adjectives right brad wilcox is an associate professor in the department of ancient scripture at byu he received his bachelor's degree in elementary education from byu and taught sixth grade in the provo school district before returning to byu for a master's degree in teaching and learning then he took off and he went to wyoming got a phd in curriculum and instruction with a focus in literacy from at the football games they go wyo from the university of wyoming laramie he joined the faculty at byu and spent many tears in many tears many years and many tears in the teacher education part he can tell us if that's true or not he moved to ancient scripture in 2016. he's the author of the book the continuous atonement and what a blessing that's been to so many and the byu devotional on speeches.byu.edu called his grace is sufficient uh brad grew up in provo utah except for childhood years spent in ethiopia he served a mission for the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints in chile and then later returned to preside over the chile santiago east mission from 2003 to 2006. and i think he used to get visited by someone known as elder jeffrey r holland when he was down there he and his family have also lived for a time in new zealand and spain if i'm timeless brad's international brad's global where he's universal he's universal he directs his study abroad programs for byu brad's been served as a member of the sunday school general board and he's currently in the general young men's presidency uh his research interests include all aspects of literacy as well as gospel topics and on a mass onomatics did i say that right brad yeah on a mastic which is the study of names and he and his wonderful wife debbie have four children and six grandchildren is that still accurate we've got number nine coming this summer i have learned so much from brad and one of the brad has more energy if you put jumper cables on brad's ears you could power the entire tri-state area uh he i i have hank one of the only known photographs of brad sleeping during the daytime and we had just finished a youth conference and we got on a plane and after writing about 300 thank you notes and cards and stuff he fell asleep and i snapped a photo uh anyway so energetic and almost every book i've written which number in the twos uh no i've written a bunch but brad has so kindly as busy as he has reviewed manuscripts and and helped made every one of them better he's kind but he'll tell me hey you ought to do this you ought to do this and uh i i feel he's a lifelong friend and i'm so grateful to have him here today thanks brad and welcome thank you what a beautiful introduction just being with the two of you is not uncomfortable at all because we have spent many many years together uh the three of us have taught together we've traveled together they always say that the way to get to know somebody really well is to travel together and we've done it we we know each other inside and out and i have loved being your mission companion for years and years as we go to youth conferences as we work with young single adults it's just been a joy to be able to have the two of you in my circle of as john says lifelong friends we've spent tears into years right years and years uh brad and i yeah um i i you know people will ask me sometimes um they'll say what's it like working with john or brad uh you know are they the same as they are as they're better right they're they're they're not that you don't have this on stage presence and then this you know grouchy old man presence it's this uh it's they're even kinder in person and then they'll say something like you know uh someone will say oh i listened to a brad wilcox talker i listen to john by the way talk sorry no no don't don't say sorry um because i personally i could never have done what i have done without brad paving the way and brad making the road and john paving the road uh i i cannot express my just admiration aw thanks um enough and everyone listening should know brad wilcox is a hugger um yeah coved's about killed me yeah not because of the virus but because of the six foot distance stuff he is a hugger and getting a hug from brad wilcox is is um yeah it's like getting a hug from the holy ghost bus drivers walmart clerks anyone around brad they yeah he's my my sister-in-law gave me a t-shirt that said if it moves hug it so i guess that's my motto but you know it is funny how people think that uh we compete with each other uh because it's they they always think you know the students at byu think that there's some sort of sick competition going on between john by the way and hank smith and brad wilcox and i think no they don't realize that we're dear friends and when some kid comes up to me and says gosh you're not as good as hank smith i say you're right and when somebody comes up and says your book changed my life and i say oh thank you will you sign it oh yes and then they give me one of john's books i've signed hank smith's cds before i i just signed it i used to explain that that's john's book now i just signed it yeah whatever my kids listen to hank cds in the in the sequoia so uh it and i think boy in this day and age what we've been talking about have so many voices i am so grateful for anybody who wants to bear testimony to my kids who can make him laugh and who can make him feel some joy so thanks for being on the same team guys yeah and that's the point i always tell the students at byu when you're trying to build your own kingdom then people can get competitive but if you're trying to build the lord's kingdom then we're all on the same team hank's success is my success john's success is my success and because we're such dear friends then instead of feeling competitive instead of feeling um belittled by somebody else's success we can feel grateful because you know having you two on my team it's like having two michael jordans on my team and i i'm gonna get the ball to you as often as i can because if you get the basket then we all succeed because we're trying to help people come to christ and when that's our motive and i sincerely testify that that is hank's motive and john's motive and my motive and if that's our motive then we're all trying to do the same thing and and uh the more we can do it together the more fun it is yeah that's that's why today i i'm really excited john i'm sure you thought of this verse knowing you so well i'm sure you were like i think alma said something like that in alma 29 i do not joy in my own success alone but my joy is more full because of the success of my brethren and they get so joyous in the book of mormon they just tip over and are unconscious for three days i mean it's we are legit friends yes we love to watch each other teach and testify to our own kids i mean hank teaches my own kids and i'm so glad he's there and brad teaches my children and and i'm so glad he's there so and brad's helped write letters of recommendation for my kids in school and and hank's daughter and my son went to prom we are friends you know so you got to know this oh i and uh john brad would never say this but uh you mentioned that talk um at byu racist i was there for that talk um i it was a summer devotional which they they have in a smaller uh venue there that was in the dion concert hall and there were there were only a few hundred people there so yeah you were one of the few yeah i sat there and listened that's called true devotion you came devotional and um that talk and i and brad did not mean for this to happen this was not on his mind in fact he was going to give a talk on humor decided at the last minute to switch it up and do a talk on um grace became the most downloaded talk in byu devotional history um and it's it's it's not a thing he talks about he doesn't i've never ever seen brad say guess who has the most downloaded talking he's never he's never said that um he would never even think it but it has changed more uh lives students have told me about it church members have told me about it they've said that oh it just spoke to my heart so we'll encourage anyone uh it's what website did you say john speeches.byu.edu i mean what a treasure that whole website is but yeah they used to have a download of things that i always used to see when i went there to find some oh look there's there's brad and when i when i teach second nephi 25 you know and what does that phrase mean after all we can do well wow watch brad take it apart and and watch the hope and and the the grace of christ come to the forefront as we talk about that so yeah it's called my grace his grace is sufficient is sufficient okay well at some point we need to start the come follow me later um brad um we are uh excited to study conf come follow me with you this week we're studying sections 71-75 these are a series of shorter sections uh but and they all seem the issues that are being dealt with all seem to be kind of all over the place so why don't we just kind of take them one at a time or however you want to do it give us some context give us some history our listeners need to know uh and jump into these verses and tell us what you see i think listeners are going to be surprised as they realize that these short little sections actually have a great deal to say to us today and a great deal of hope for us today and we sometimes will read these sections and think oh that doesn't have much to do with me but i think you'll be surprised it really does let's take a look at section 71. now sydney and joseph are translating the bible you've talked before in your other episodes about the joseph smith translation which isn't really a translation it's a inspired commentary and he's he's going through this uh to be able to learn the gospel as much as teach the gospel and uh and so they're busy in this work and god wants them in this work but then along comes the situation that arises with ezra booth now ezra booth was a methodist minister and he read a copy of the book of mormon with john johnson and uh then he saw elsa johnson healed have you shared that story before in your episodes uh a little bit uh we would love to hear it uh well refreshing memory yeah why don't we go ahead and share that john well they were they were in kirtland they were at that little didn't they call it a hotel it's kind of kitty corner to the new okay whitney store yeah and uh elsa is sitting there and um and her arm has been uh well just say withered not able to function very well for years and she couldn't and and john with your with your back problems that you're struggling with you know what that means to not be able to move like you'd like she couldn't even lift her arm above her head yeah she said uh it was the hanging the laundry out to dry she couldn't do it she had to do it with with just her left arm right yeah and you know joseph smith what were the words he used he said do you have the faith to be healed or did he say something like that or just watch over and walk over and have her reach out her arm and uh healed her arm and uh and then just walked out if i remember right and right it wasn't a big deal he kind of walked over to her in the corner she wasn't you know he didn't have everybody gathered around no uh but as her booth caught up was there and uh it uh i guess opened his heart a little bit and at that point he as being a friend of of john and elsa johnson uh joined the church yeah he was called on a mission and uh he found that the mission was difficult and he was living without purser script now he'd been used to being a paid minister so it was a difficult transition for him to go from hey i am receiving a nice income for this and now i'm doing it for nothing and on days there are days that i'm not even eating and so it became very hard for him and uh he ended up uh leaving the church and publishing nine letters in the ohio uh the in an ohio newspaper and he wrote about what he called the mormon delusion now joseph smith called them his letters a monument to the weakness and wickedness of ezra booth whoa that's some pretty powerful language coming from from joseph smith i think he was especially disappointed in ezra booth because he had seen a miracle he had seen a miracle and he had come into the church and yet when things got hard he turned bitter against the church and i think knowing the amazing experience that he had it especially saddened joseph smith um and so he caused enough problems these letters were causing enough problems that he uh that then that that brought this section forth and it says in verse 1 uh the time has verily come that it is necessary and expedient in me that you should open your mouths in proclaiming my gospel now why was it expedient well because there were enough members that were getting disillusioned by these letters there were enough people in the community that were turning their hearts against the latter-day saints because of this that the lord said it's time for you joseph it's time for you sydney to go and look in verse 2 it says the region's round about and in the church isn't it interesting that missionaries always think that they need to have a mission call that takes them clear across the world and they even get disappointed if they get called to a nearby state or a nearby country because they think oh i've got to go clear across the world to preach the gospel but the prophet himself was called on a mission to the region's round about and in the church missionary work isn't all done with those who are not members of the church missionary work can be done as we help everyone live the gospel as we help everyone care about those in need as we help others share the gospel and as we help unite families for eternity all of those are aspects of missionary work and he is being called to the church brad i'm going to ask you a question here because i think this is crucial because i think when i when i served a mission reactivating a member didn't feel like a baptism right and so um it was kind of like oh and and yet now that i'm looking back i'm going this is part of missionary work is going out there because i as missionaries today are are reactivating some members who were baptized you know a couple of years ago that is very much missionary work right i was blessed to serve in chile you mentioned this earlier i was blessed to serve in chile at the same time that elder holland was directing the work down there and it was so remarkable to watch him see and help us see missionary work as something much more than just teaching non-members and baptizing them into the church he helped people see that we needed to continue to minister to them so that they could stay strong in the church and he helped the missionaries devote a big solid chunk of their time to reactivation and he was so instrumental it was the same time that preached my gospel was coming out and he was so instrumental in helping the missionaries make that shift uh to the shift that preached my gospel talks about that says when we're doing when we're doing anything we can to help build the kingdom that's all part of missionary work so we see that here in in section 71. uh and look at verse 6 it says for unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly even power now hank and john you both were kind enough to mention the talk i gave on grace but i have often used this very verse as i talk about grace because many people in the christian world know that grace is a gift but they think of grace as a one-time gift you get it once and for all and in reality this verse describes a little better how we receive grace for unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly even power grace is defined as enabling power and so those who receive it receive more if we think of grace as a scholarship then a scholarship is a free gift it's not a student loan it's a gift and those who receive it if they use it and they keep their grades up then they receive more and they receive more but those who don't use it then it is taken away i know because a lot of my students who are freshmen come to byu with a scholarship that they've worked so hard for and they'll lose it in the first semester why because they didn't take advantage of the opportunity a scholarship doesn't guarantee learning and a scholarship doesn't guarantee graduation it facilitates it and grace facilitates this transformation in our lives those who receive grace then they receive more grace but those who don't take advantage of the grace they're given those who reject it then it's not that god doesn't want to give them more it's that he can't they're not even they're not even on campus anymore right like they're they're not using the scholarship they're not applying they're not yeah and and so he he would love to give them more but he can't think of the parable of the talents uh one time i was reading that in matthew 25 and then my daughter said dad i think that's talking about grace i said no no honey i know these things i teach at byu and it's talking about money and she said no dad i think it's talking about grace and i said i don't think so she said dad read it again and so i did and with the lens that my daughter had given me i did see it in a different light because we traditionally think okay he gave one he gave to one five talents one two and one one but think of talents not as an amount of money per se but think of them as books he gave five books to one servant two to another and one to another well when he came back the one the one who received two and the one who received five they had read their books and so he said welcome into my library and he was able to give them more the one who received one book had the book taken away why because god was being mad god was mean god was punishing him no it's because he hadn't read it and what good is a book to somebody who doesn't read it even if god said well i love that person so much enter into my library anyway if that servant can't handle one book what's he gonna do with the library he may not even want to go into the library until he's better prepared so this verse always makes me think of grace what's interesting is that the the servant with the one book he blames the lord right i knew you were hard i knew you would you would judge me harshly i knew you and the lord returns it to you you this was you your decision uh what does he say you were slothful yeah you didn't read the book yeah you so as much as we want to put the blame on god you don't love me you don't care you right are judgmental god's saying this was your joy this was your choice you did this and for unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly even power and those who don't receive it's taken away well how do i receive grace some some christians say latter-day saints don't believe in grace because we believe in ordinances and we believe in commandments we have more faith in that than we do in grace what they don't understand is that for us ordinances and f and uh covenants are not what we do instead of grace it's what we do to use grace to receive grace to acknowledge it to appreciate it and to welcome more and more grace into our lives and as we welcome more then god is able to give more so if we think of grace not as a one-time gift that he gives to all of his children but rather as a library of books and he is giving us one book after another my little grandkids i mean some of them are getting old enough now that i used to read books to them now they can read little books to me what do i do when they finish a book give them another i give them another the minute they finish one i give them another and then i give them another after that because i know then they're in this this path of learning that we that that that is part of the transformation that god and jesus are trying to have happen in our lives we read about that a little later in these same in these same sections when we read about sanctification but let's go to the end of section 71 verses 9 and 10 at the bottom it says no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper and if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in my own due time and i think that's a beautiful promise sometimes we get discouraged because there's so much stuff on the internet uh bombarding us and so many voices saying you're wrong and i've got all this evidence that proves the church isn't true and there's just so many voices coming at us we have to remember what the lord told joseph smith no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper and we have to keep that same perspective nothing they say nothing they can do is going to stop the progression of the church the forward movement of the church and he says if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded joseph wasn't the one who was confused it was ezra booth who was confused and in the end because ezra booth's choices took him away from joseph and away from the church it was ezra booth who was confounded it was ezra who ended up confused joseph and those who stayed true to him were always moving in the forward direction so i told you section 71 has a lot to do with our day doesn't it i've had students before say um aren't you worried about this you know this written on the internet this big thing that you know and i i always tell them this story there was a man in germany who ran into some very very anti-material um and he became interested because of it looked into the church ended up joining the church moving to utah starting a little school in provo his name's carl g mazur he started a little school in provo that became brigham young academy that became brigham young university so i'm really grateful for that little anti-mormon book that he ran into because it introduced him to the church so i think that's one of the one of the ways the lord is saying it will be confounded in mine own due time yeah elder legrand curtis jr who is the church historian right now he says it doesn't i don't worry that people are going to find something out about church history he says i worry that they're not going to find out enough about church history and you know the same story you shared about about carl g mazur hank it happened in this situation as well there was a man named ira v ames a-m-e-s and he was actually attracted to the church by letters that were written by ezra booth and published in the newspaper it was those letters that led him to joining the church and this man stayed strong his whole life he participated in zion's camp and he was a faithful disciple throughout his entire life so there we see evidence of the words that the lord said to joseph smith no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper i can't tell you how many people i've met personally not just people i've heard about but people i've met personally who ended up joining the church because their interest was first peaked by the book of mormon musical now i've never seen it i've never listened to music because i don't want to hear all the swear words i do know what it's about because people have told me but i just think that's a a great example of what we're talking about uh this weapon may have been formed against the church and yet god can use it to peak people's interest and and they come into the church and i've actually met men and women who have come into the church because of their first exposure to the book of mormon through that musical so there's some beautiful evidence yeah ezra booth um and uh the people who did the musical and things like that not not our enemy when things like this end up happening um if somebody has an open heart and is willing to say i'd like to see the other side of this like i think i'll read those ezra booth letters i'll go read some other ones too uh some good things can happen from there and if you remember in the book of mormon when alma and amulek are questioned by ze ezram i think that's how you say it and his at first ze ezra's questions are gotcha questions i mean he is not about learning truth he's a lawyer and he's trying to confound them or you know a gotcha question is i'm going to trap you it's it's what reporters do and things like that and when almond amulek started to preach he heard something that touched his heart and all of a sudden i i call these gotcha questions and then they go to google questions which are just information and then there's golden questions uh where did i come from why am i here what's going on and ziezer suddenly goes to golden questions and alma tells him this was the plan of thine adversary and i've always just loved that one word he didn't say the adversary he's he's not just he's your enemy too um and i i share this with my kids when we have a family uh fight or a struggle or something to say this is not about you versus me this is all of us versus the adversary our adversary and uh let's see ourselves together as a as a team um and so the lord can do things in such interesting ways to bring his purposes about and i if you don't mind i wanted to talk about that word receive in verse six unto him that receiveth i've always thought that in a more modern way we look at it as is did you get the did you get the letter uh but receiving implies i'm letting it in i'm allowing it to come in we have a wedding reception we receive guests and the the funny thing to me is when i was thinking about this i started thinking about the parable of the sower where they received seed and then i looked at the footnote on the word receive footnote 6a matthew 13 12 right after the parable of the sower jesus talks about he that receives will receive more just as brad as has spoken and about how we confer the holy ghost what what are the words that are used by the priesthood holder yeah it's now um you've got the holy ghost it's no it's a command that you receive let it in allow it in you open it open yourself to let it in think about a receiver on a football field yeah he he has to do something to receive it doesn't just happen he's running man he's putting himself in a position so that he can receive the gift beautiful insight john i i just want to make this very clear the ezra boosts of 2021 the ze ezrams of 2021 these are not our enemy and too often we think we're somehow defending the cause by going after these individuals by threatening them there's there's you know there's latter-day saints who feel like if i can go and threaten these enemies of the church i'm i'm i'm helping i'm helping the lord and i think the lord is saying he is saying here no no no that's you keep my commandments right they are true and faithful uh so i i don't know i i don't know how uh you can tell i feel pretty strongly about this but yeah these these people on online who are all over saying the church is terrible they are not our enemy as john said we we could say to them if they hear us this is your enemy too is is behind all of this right our enemy is the adversary and your enemy is the adversary and that's who's behind all this you know the one of the most quoted scriptures in general conference by prophet seers and revelators over the last 50 years and you might say brad how do you know it's one of the most quoted because i counted them i counted them i actually did an article on that to find out what were the most quoted scriptures from the book of mormon but one of the top ones is mosiah 3 19 for the natural man is an enemy to god but i always have to remember that god is not his enemy god is not the enemy of the natural man god is his best friend because it's through god that that that natural man that prideful and unrepentant man can be changed through the atonement of christ the lord and become a saint childlike submissive whole you know loving that change is possible and and so you're right hank we have to remember who the real enemy is uh and that god is not the enemy yeah he doesn't say to joseph and sydney you go get ezra right i was just thinking look at what he does say in verse one it's expedient to me that you should open your mouths in proclaiming my gospel my gospel is good news this is the glad tidings of great joy that's what the gospel is and then look um again at the end as brad said don't don't worry no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper and in the uh come follow him uh manual they come follow me manual uh it references elder robert d hale's talk on christian courage and i think the way that we respond to that is going to hopefully if we respond with christian courage uh make it easier for those two to come back you've heard the the idea that um we don't want to burn bridges we want to make it you were so kind to me during that time when i was struggling yeah come on back you know and joseph does that to you know wwe phelps you know those stories are coming up but uh just john so what i hear you saying and brad what i hear you saying is the best way to overcome the the the weapons that are formed against us is teaching the gospel yeah sharing the gospel maybe not responding not with hatred not not not threatening but show the good news show it and live it look at verse 11 wherefore keep my commandments they are true and faithful so he's saying you don't have to go fight anybody you don't have to ridicule anybody you don't have to go tear anybody else down just just live the gospel keep my commandments share the gospel uh and instead of saying oh these other groups are you know we're let's let's let's start talking about what's bad about everybody else instead we just say no we're just going to share what what's good about what we have and then thanks the restored gospel we have my my mission president used to tell us always better to light a candle than to curse the darkness and uh i always liked that idea thanks beautiful well let's go ahead to section 72 and in this section we see the calling of newell k whitney as a bishop now he wasn't the very first bishop the first bishop was edward partridge but interesting things that we read as we go through this first of all uh edward partridge wrote a letter to his uh to lydia partridge and in this letter he said i fear my station is above what i can perform to the acceptance of my heavenly father anybody who's ever been called as a bishop can relate to those words i fear my station my calling is above what i can perform to the acceptance of my heavenly father neil k whitney had a similar response in fact would this be a good time can i read something that um newell k whitney's grandson orson f whitney said in general conference awesome and hank i'm timeless i was there this was in 1919 and uh i i remember where i was you remember it you remember the meeting uh we parked our wagon outside and mom said now you're gonna have to take the hand cart home with your sister um but uh so orson f whitney said new okay whitney staggering under the weight of the responsibility that was about to be placed upon him said to the prophet brother joseph i can't see a bishop in myself no but god could see it in him he was a natural bishop a first class man of affairs probably no other incumbent of that important office the presiding bishopric to which he eventually attained has been better qualified for it than to okay whitney but he could not see it and he shrank from the responsibility the prophet answered go and ask the lord about it and newell did ask the lord and he heard a voice from heaven say thy strength is in me that was enough he accepted the office and served in it faithfully to the end of his days a period of 18 years now do you see how that ties back to what we were talking about grace if grace is power if it is divine strength as he turns to the lord then the lord tells him thy strength is in me and you can do this you can make it through now he's given stewardship at the hand of every steward he is to render an account of his stewardship so he is to receive what's in the storehouse and that means that people's time and talents and means are being turned over to the bishop in zion and he is making sure that people are giving an account of that stewardship now today we often read this and we think about what was happening uh financially that they were giving of their land or giving of their their homes or giving of their finances but we have to remember that the law of consecration is giving our time our talents and our means and even today we give our time we give our talents and we give our means and all of that some people say brother wilcox will we one day live the law of consecration and i say it's up to you you can live it right now we're not promising to live a law someday down the road we're promising to live a law right now that says we will give our time our talents and our means to the church and we we do that now here's the interesting thing we are living in a time where there has been an inspired change to the role of a bishop uh in 2019 we heard an inspired announcement that said that there were not going to be any more young men presidencies at the ward level and that the bishop bricks as they're told in scripture in section 107 the bishoprics are going to be the leaders of the youth well we've now been living with that announcement for over a year and bishops are staggering a little bit they're saying how on earth do i take the youth on on top of everything else that i'm responsible for and they need to remember that this is not an issue of this is not an issue of so we're doing something new this is an issue of getting back to where the scriptures talk talk to us in the first place the young men presidency was something that happened in response to scouting because scouting is a national organization and it exists and has a national organization well as the church used scouting as the activity arm of the aaronic priesthood then they needed some men who could run the scouting program and that's where young men presidencies come from but the keys of the aaronic priesthood have never been in the hands or uh you know in never been held by the young men presidency the keys are held by the bishop they're held by the teachers quorum president they're held by the deacon's quorum president and now this alignment now that we have been able but now that we've separated ourselves from scouting then the the responsibility for the youth can be back where it needed to be all along and that is the bishopric now i was serving as a member of the high council when the announcement was made and they said that the stake young men president would now be a member of the high council well shortly after that announcement i was called to be the stake young men president and my first response i have to be honest with you was oh seriously like i don't have enough on my plate this calling isn't enough now i have to be the young man president too and i know a lot of bishops are feeling that same way seriously like i don't have enough on my plate and we have to remember as i prayed about that i i was able to realize that this was a very inspired change that needed to happen and one thing that helped me realize that was to find out that the young men president was holding his calling throughout the entire church the average time that a young man president was in was about nine months that's not enough time to build the relationships that we need high council members bishopric members they usually serve for longer than nine months and that was the average which means that some of those men were in even shorter times so if we need to build the relationships that will keep youth strong those relationships come as we have time with the youth so i think that part of the reason that the bishops are being called into that call to action that high council members are being called to action is because they have time to build those relationships and we have to have kind of a cultural shift in our minds see what what is being described here with newell k whitney is the work of the presiding bishop who takes care of the temporal affairs of the church and the temporal the responsibilities of ward bishops to take care of temporal needs within their wards but now we've got to let the a cultural shift happen and understand that later in section 107 then we start understanding that the aaronic priesthood the leader of the aaronic priesthood also had to be it was the bishop so that he could build those relationships and we've got to have a cultural shift you guys aren't old enough to remember this but i remember when i was growing up culturally we looked at the bishop as a fundraiser he was always asking for money for the temple fund money for the building fund money for the for the welfare money for uh the budget and so i have a memory of a bishop kind of being culturally looked at as a fundraiser then when the church changed that then we started looking at the bishop the way that many people do now and that is as a free counselor okay we go to the bishop he's going to counsel us in our marriage he's going to counsel us through our problems he's going to counsel us and help us with everything that's going on in our lives and now our church leaders as they emphasize the need for the bishop to work with the youth they are telling the members it's time for the bishop to delegate those responsibilities of counseling to release society presidents to elders quorum presidents to presidencies of the elders gorman released society and even to other members of the ward every ward has a former bishop in it well if that bishop if that former bishop is consecrated if he has given his time his talents and means to the church then they are part of the bishop storehouse or what this section calls the lord's storehouse and and so the bishop can call on those things and the bishop can delegate uh not confessions for sins that requires a common judge in israel which is a bishop's role but the ongoing counseling can be delegated to someone else uh even a professional counselor it can be delegated to that man or that woman and we can use what's in the storehouse to be able to meet the needs so the bishop has time for his family and time for the youth the rising generation in our day president nelson has clearly said that the bishopric is responsible for the youth not just the aaronic priesthood but the young women as well now he doesn't do this all alone there are advisers who are called there are specialists who are called there is a young women's presidency called in the ward and and that can all be part of this storehouse that he has and he can delegate to them uh but part of the problem is that members of the church aren't letting the bishop escape this counseling role so many bishops are not just counseling the people who were being counseled by the former bishop but they are counseling the people who were counseled by the bishop before him i mean we're talking two three bishops ago and they're still being counseled that's the counseling that can be shifted the counseling of adults can be shifted and delegated to others who are part of the storehouse so that the bishop can turn his attention to the rising generation and strengthen that rising generation brad i love what you're saying here um are you do you feel like the lord is saying to the church today you know president nelson and the direction we've been given um the role of a bishop is not a counselor um as as it and it's maybe it's worked for us in the past and hey this is good but there's some divine alignment happening here do you feel like yeah i think we need to have a cultural shift just as we were able to shift and say the bishop it doesn't need to be a fundraiser anymore we need now to shift and say the bishop doesn't need to be an adult counselor he still needs to be the judge in israel he still needs to receive confessions but he doesn't need to be a prolonged adult counselor he needs to be able to work with the youth counsel with the youth build a relationship with the youth john how much time would that have saved that cultural shift for you personally when you were bishop yeah it's a really good question because i think the the hard part the cultural shift yeah would have saved me a lot of time the idea of don't pass me it off to anybody else i want to see the bishop see that sort of a thing uh where there were so many capable men and women brothers and sisters in the lord's storehouse who could help with so many things and the cultural shift has to say uh so the bishop isn't the only one who can do this and a lot of times you felt inadequate to do everything you're asked as we've talked about and so when i was a bishop the um i felt the cultural shift the message is already coming we need to push more of the work of salvation to the ward council that was already happening before scouts uh was uh discontinued and so forth and i used to to see sometimes that everybody was bringing their problems uh to toward council and so uh which was great but i tried to say come with your recommendations and my mission president was so i i did this to him once i came to him with a problem and he said elder by the way never come to your boss with a problem always come with a recommendation he said a good leader trains leaders as he leads and what is so exciting about this is brad who's going to be included now in ward council well we know that the ward youth council yeah will have the all the all the youth presidents and uh and the young women present there and that's going to be a remarkable thing and the the youth are going to be asked to do more and and so i i love this idea of come with the recommendation and then people could study things out in their own minds and come and we would of course still counsel together but i i love what uh brad's talking about of the cultural shift to say um that all of us as members can try to say how can i be part of the lord's storehouse help my brothers or sisters in the ward and maybe not always think of i got to call the bishop about this or that brad i i love that the church has kind of combined elders quorum with the high priest i think there's power in that and one of the things that i actually did as you're talking about is one of the things that that kind of weighed on me a lot and every every bishop's area is different every bishop's congregation is different but i had some significant welfare problems that weighed on me a lot and i called a former bishop and his wife and they were my welfare counselors and that was one of the best things i ever did because they had experience and but that could be their their thing and then they could come and we could counsel and they could make recommendations and it was it was great and when i saw them as part of the lord's storehouse it gave me um more emotional energy for for other things so i i just feel deeply for every bishop out there i hope this is encouraging for them and and uh is helping them today because uh i i remember just thinking i can't do this all i can't see a bishop in me if you think about it um we've made that cultural shift before we've made it with general authorities i mean they had to come out and say please don't request that a general authority perform the ceiling for your child don't request you know if if they get letters with people's questions they will typically say take this question to your stake president if they get asked to give a blessing they will typically say ask their ask your local leaders uh for that blessing so as a church most of us don't typically think oh i've got a problem i better write to elder christopherson i've got i've got i n my daughter's getting married i better call elder holland we've made a cultural shift that says that's simply too much for those brethren to bear and we need now to make the same cultural shift with our bishops and realize that they have a family to raise and they have a generation to raise they have to take care of the rising generation and we've got to be able to back away and let them do what they're being asked to do by our profit leaders and not be hurt i know if people are like oh but the bishop's not for me you know it's her it's it can hurt the heart a little bit to make a cultural shift yeah you mean elder holland won't marry my child won't seal my child um we have to be able to say this is all part of the storehouse this section i i've heard ahmed corbett who's the counselor who serves with me uh with president lund in the young men general presidency he speaks about this often because as a stake president in new jersey he taught his bishops from this very section he taught them look at verse 10 you are to keep the lord's storehouse to receive the offerings look at verse 15. zion must lay all things before the bishop and then it's in verse 19 they should give an accounting to the bishop so the bishop's role is to manage this storehouse and in the storehouse we have people who can do counseling and there are it we're not saying that people don't need the counseling we're just saying that it can be provided by other people who are part of this team part of this storehouse and and it doesn't always have to be the bishop i often encourage bishops to start thinking of themselves more as a mission president a mission president doesn't say oh i could do the work of salvation so effectively if i didn't have these missionaries right i'll go teach everyone in this area yeah if i didn't have these missionaries if i didn't have to plan parties for the missionaries i could really get something done no he realizes that training those missionaries preparing them as leaders helping them do the work is more important than doing the work himself and so if bishops could see themselves as a mission president and not see the youth as a burden but see the youth as his arms they are his missionaries a mission president has assistance so does a bishop a bishop president has zone leaders and district leaders well the bishop has class and quorum presidencies and if he will use these youth to do the work of salvation he's going to find that the youth aren't one more thing on his plate the youth can help him with everything else on his plate and then we're going to really start seeing some progress be made i've never thought about people's talents being in the storehouse but they are a part of the storehouse is hey i've got this person in my ward who uh understands this issue maybe they're even a marriage counselor they're part of our storehouse right i've got uh i love that and that and the bishop can manage it the bishop can manage the storehouse yes and that's what brother ahmed corbett did when he was a steak president he taught his bishops to work that way in his stake in new jersey and they had some phenomenal results when they started thinking of the storehouse not just as a bunch of cans of food on a shelf the bishop's storehouse as we read this calling of new k whitney we can realize that the storehouse includes the time and the bishop is not out of place to ask other members for their time for their talents and for their means to help him as he takes care of of the uh the other responsibilities that only he can do the the important thing here though is not just what the whitney's gave but that he was called to manage the storehouse yeah and he was so effective in drawing on the talents of others he didn't try to do it all himself he called on others and helped others develop as leaders as they donated to the storehouse oh and if i could add something else if you're using paper scriptures which is what i use you know timeless then you can't do this as easily if you're scrolling it's so cool because of verse 8. now verily i say unto you my my servant newell k whitney notice the words new okay whitney is the man you can just underline that part okay whitney that's what joseph smith said tell how joseph smith met him the first time tell it brad when joseph smith came to uh kirtland the first thing he did was go into new k whitney store and he said thou art the man and it was neil and his wife elizabeth who were very religious and they had been praying for the holy ghost's guidance and they felt the inspiration that they needed to prepare themselves to receive the word of the lord and so when joseph smith showed up uh first the missionaries who taught uh new okay whitney and his wife elizabeth and then joseph smith shows up and he says thou art the man he says you prayed me here so what is it now that you would want me to do and he ended up living in new k whitney's home along with many others that newell k whitney cared for and his um his wife elizabeth ann whitney becomes one of the closest friends of emma smith they're very close friends i think she's a counselor in the first relief society presidency please join us for part two of this podcast you

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Length: 64min 15sec (3855 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 25 2021