Follow Him Episode 15 Part II : Doctrine & Covenants 30-36 : Dr. Robert L. Millet

welcome to part two of this week's podcast what stands out over and over john in our reading is that uh what section is it he who repents is my church is my church is my church contend against no church save it be the church of the devil in section 18. yeah that was section 10 verse 67 whoso repenteth and cometh unto me the same is my church hey let's move to 34 yeah 34 and 36. two names that are very important uh to the history of the church orson pratt and edward partridge let's talk about orson pratt here for a minute what do we know about orson and maybe edward as well you know obviously orson is the younger brother of parley parley goes back when he gets the gospel and he visits with uh with orson teaches him the gospel he's baptized on the 19th of september 1830 his 19th birthday oh wow and then what does he do within a matter of days he's on a mission yeah he goes to colesville as as a as an ambassador of the lord to preach the gospel this revelation to orson pratt to me is just so let me just say and of course orson pratt became one of the great minds of this dispensation when you start listing the great intellects of our dispensation you know you think of james talmadge and you think of john widsow and and so on and so on orson pratt would be right up there a brilliant man not formally trained as far as education goes but trained by god i mean he had an amazing mind he does he's one that i've read about who wants to learn hebrew he wants to learn greek he's studying math he's studying english grammar he is uh he's and we're getting ahead of ourselves here but he's going to be i think one of the first two people to enter the salt lake valley he just seems to be a go-getter he wants to be in front learning and leading and he lives until 1881 so he lives to be 70. he is another illustration of someone for example who had his disagreements with president brigham young yeah i think that's worth noting they loved each other they respected each other but they have differences in this case brigham was right on those issues but brigham young also said of orson pratt i believe if we took this man and cut him up into a hundred pieces each piece would cry out joseph smith was a prophet of god that's a great statement so he's converted by his brother right as i'm just we've read just a couple of sections here partly p pratt is instrumental well if he didn't teach him he baptizes them right uh he's gonna bring john john taylor is going to be a product of that's correct pratt i don't know party pratt never becomes um he never becomes the president of the church but the impact of parley p pratt still is is with us today maybe our greatest literary mind just to read all the poetry that parley p pratt wrote i mean well think of the hymns by parley p pratt that we sing the amazing man this section to me is fascinating for a number of reasons but i just want to show you one or two reasons obviously it begins with the lord bearing his witnesses in terms of who he is the the redeemer verse 3 who so loved the world that he gave his own life it sounds very much like john 3 16. so orson is called to prepare the way of the lord for the lord's second coming but i want you to look at verse 10 wherefore lift up your voice and spare not for the lord god hath spoken therefore prophesy and it shall be given by the power of the holy ghost i think that's the only person in the doctrine and covenants that's told prophesy and you know what he does just yesterday i grabbed my 26 volume set of the journal of discourses and went through and glanced at all of the sermons by orson pratt between 1851 and 1881 okay now of that time period orson pratt delivered 23 addresses on the signs of the times the second coming and the millennium therefore prophesy orson pratt had more to say about the last days than any other person in this dispensation wow he took it seriously that's incredible um you know it talks about him preach my gospel you are called of me to preach my gospel i think i read maybe it was in susan's book he crosses the atlantic ocean 16 times in missionary work he it was as he said lift up your voices with the sound of a trump long and loud these were he was going to do this for a long time like you said till 1881 i think he's going to be the last surviving member of the original 12. that is correct can think about this as a distinction for orson as well while orson is a basically mission president over in in scotland he writes a little pamphlet about joseph smith's visions which includes the first vision is published in 1840 and happens to be the first published account of the first vision orson pratt's account of what joseph told him we have got missionary section after missionary section after missionary section i think those of us uh who want to do more missionary work who feel it i just want to share the gospel more i think you can gain inspiration from these sections from come follow me this week it's let me just study this verse by verse and say how how can i be a better missionary what can i gain for myself and for me personally it's open your mouth and maybe today the lord would say and post on instagram and post on facebook and you know tell people who you are and what you believe here's a thought i get asked occasionally as you're reading and studying the doctrine and covenants how do you know which things are time specific and specifically intended for that person versus which things really do apply to all of us right and and maybe this is is superficial but it occurred to me those things that are doctrinal in nature that's that's available to all of us the lord's teaching occasionally you'll read something whether it's to emma smith about what she's to do with the hymn book on the other hand what does it say at the end of section 25 what i say unto one i say unto all so many many times we can read a revelation we see certain things pertain to orson pratt he was to prophesy but so many of these verses are for everyone blessed are you because you are called of me to preach my gospel that is a say unto all type type verse yes preach teach and heal um should we talk about edward partridge in 36 because i'll tell you what i you're going to see me get excited i sure love edward partridge um and anytime i see a bishop just wearing out their life in the service of their ward i got to think of the the the church's very first bishop edward partridge tell us about edward what do you know bob well born in 1793 in pittsfield massachusetts i know pittsfield massachusetts that was in the eastern states mission and so we used to go to pittsfield on monday and play in basketball the elders did in the gym there so that's my connection 1793 so he's what uh 12 years older than joseph he's known for being a hatter he he he apprenticed for four years under a hatter a man who makes hats and uh he went into his own business owned his own hat shop and for those who are listening who are thinking what in the world a hatter we gotta say that a hat a top hat uh any hat was part of formal wear if you're gonna dress up nice you're gonna wear you're gonna wear a nice hat it's a different world now when i was on a mission in primitive times we i was in the eastern states mission our dress was to be the dress of the men on wall street which meant dark suits dark tie and a hat i wore a hat the first six or eight months of our mission uh hats added uh uh some dignity you know yeah yeah and so you know someone might today might think what he had a job making hats yeah it was very much like making a suit coat right or being a tailor here's an interesting thought for you edward partridge was fascinated with unitarianism and universalism now i understand i think almost perfectly why that's the case joseph describes this as what a very a man filled with piety one of the great men he describes him unitarianism especially universalism universalism is the notion god will eventually save everyone okay it's a positive affirming thing father smith and his father aisle smith they started the first universalist society in their area now why because president smith had a soft heart present president uh joseph smith senior had a soft heart and and and just wanted god to save everyone i i see this fits uh this great man edward partridge so well his wife on the other hand is drawn to the campbellites he is a friend of sidney rigdon i mean here we go again okay so that when sydney comes to ohio or to new york excuse me he brings edward with him so let's explain that so partly comes to kirtland tells them about the book of mormon and the whole kirtland group sends basically to go check out joseph smith and what he's about they send these two men sidney and edward partridge saying go we'll trust you you're we'll trust your judgment is that sound about right we'll trust your judge come back and tell us about him yep once he heard the message he said he wanted to be baptized but he want he said if joseph smith will do it and so he wants to meet him joseph baptized him uh he returns to ohio he let this he returns to ohio and three days later he's called the first bishop of the church oh now john and bob i i john i know has served his bishop bob you served his bishop have you twice twice um isn't edward partridge the one who said i don't think i have a bishop in me or is that you i identify with that oh maybe that's newell whitney well i didn't think i had wanted me to i'm still not so sure the second bishop knew okay whitney's gonna be the second bishop but it's a heavy burden it's a heavy burden and it would have been even heavier then because he's dealing with property and real estate oh my goodness he's called as the first bishop and he sent to independence he writes back to his wife lydia saying i don't know if you want to come here um it is not it is not what we're used to it's rough yeah it is a rough time he's going to end up being tarred and feathered i mean we can talk about this later john but he dies young uh our first bishop dies at 46. 46 years nauvoo but what a noble noble soul oh just every time i and i i don't want that to be uh i don't want that to be a sign for bishops right that you're gonna wear yourself out and and die young but um if there's anybody who who to me personally demonstrates the the character and goodness of a bishop it's edward partridge he's just that good and he has a wonderful uh burial plot and a large a large headstone there headstone telling what kind of a man he was and he really was a great man and the lord you know later in the doctrine covenants what section 124 pays serious tribute to edward partridge what a great man i mean again here's joseph's joseph's language a pattern of piety one of the lord's great men all right what's the lord's message to our soon to be called first bishop edward partridge well look at look at the first two verses of section 36 thus saith the lord god the mighty one of israel behold i say you are blessed and your sins have forgiven you by the way how often does that come up when the lord talks to someone when they receive the revelation and you're called to preach my gospel as with the voice of a trump now look at this i will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant sidney rigdon isn't that beautiful and you shall receive my spirit the holy ghost even the comforter which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant sidney rigdon i'll tell you what it brought to my mind many years ago when i first read that seriously it brought to mind this i was i remember when i first read elder mcconkie's uh the promised messiah came out in 1978 the preface in the preface to the promised messiah look what he writes these are the opening words of the preface since the lord laid his hands upon me on october 12th 1972 by the hands of his servant president harold b lee and ordained me to the holy apostleship i have had but one desire to testify of our lord's divine sonship and to teach in purity and perfection the truths of its everlasting gospel but there it is you see by the hands of his servant harold b lee that is the lord's hands i will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant sidney rigdon that's a beautiful idea that you can see those as the lord's hands one there look at look at verse seven this is an interesting expression um this commandment shall be given unto the elders of my church that every man which will embrace it with singleness of heart may be ordained and sent forth even as i have spoken i don't think we've talked enough in the church about what it means for example to have an eye single to the glory of god i mean it's such a to me it's a sobering verse singleness of heart the great philosopher kierkegaard said purity of heart is to will one thing or it's the early brethren of this dispensation the kingdom of god are nothing uh it reminds me of a story i'm sure we'll tell in the future when brigham young asks i think it's lyman johnson whose kingdom are you trying to build right the lords or lyman johnsons uh which one which one are you really focused on um i've noticed over and over in these early sections bob that the lord he'll he'll drop little hints here and there and it seems that he drops another one in verse eight i think this might be the first time this comes up i will suddenly come to my temple and they don't have one yet yeah and they're going wait what which one he did that earlier with with you know zion the cause of zion and he's kind of just saying i'm just going to give you a little taste here let that sit for a little while and we'll we'll be talking about this you know we'll be talking about this later yes that's good yeah i read that too that's a first mention of temple and then i put underneath it because i started i started noticing in the end of section 33 behold i come quickly in the end of section 34 behold i come quickly in the end of section 35 behold they come quickly but in the end of section 36 i come suddenly and it's to my temple and i often joke with my students what does quickly mean to you because he said this over 200 years ago or about 200 years ago i don't think that's very quick but if you look at as a synonym with suddenly i think that mcconkey says it's kind of there's no it it will be in an hour you think not there won't be time to prepare unexpectedly yeah it'll come with suddenness and i i that's a fun way to to notice quickly suddenly maybe your synonyms there but maybe not because it says suddenly to my temple the kirtland temple experience hasn't happened yet but that was fairly that's got to be recent yeah more recent for them relative and that that whole expression i will come suddenly come to my temple it also on occasion means to the earth i will come to the earth it's a malachi phrase isn't it that's right i love to see the lord laying out these just lying upon line here in the in the doctrine and covenants helping these this tiny what we call it the toddler church right now john uh just grow a little bit at a time not never overwhelming them with too much that you know just give them enough to where they can chew on it for a little while digest it and i'm going to give you a little bit more well i have to admire him because i would feel overwhelmed if i were thomas b marsh and the lord said oh yeah you just joined you read 16 pages of the book of mormon rejoice the hour of your mission has come see you later wow go be bishop right yeah now you're going to imagine um so we've looked at all these missionary sections but in the the sections that we have this for this lesson section 35 stands out is a little bit different this one comes to sydney rigdon they talk about the translation of the bible here now we've mentioned this a little bit on our our podcast but i'd love to hear bob tell us what we know about sydney first of all we've talked a little bit about him today what we know about sydney because i think most members of the church at least have heard the name they know a little bit about this man he becomes very important to the early church and then also the project of the translation of the bible we'll let we'll let you take it i'm born in 1793 in saint clair township pennsylvania pennsylvania is his home he likes to go back to pennsylvania sometimes when he shouldn't as we said he was an associate of alexander campbell eventually called as we know to be the first counselor to joseph smith in the first presidency in 1832 he's with joseph smith in the john johnson home when they received the vision of the glories only a short time later he and joseph were both dragged out of their homes in the middle of the night and tarred and feathered and and in the case of sydney rigdon if i understand the circumstance they tied his legs together and dragged him from a horse dragged his head at hitting the ground as they went it was a march 20th that means really cold solid ground sydney rigdon i remember hearing from the milt bagman which one of the great church historians say he said my study tells me sydney rigdon was never the same after that and so i've been a little more patient with with sydney rigdon you know that's that's a tough thing i mean basically you know he at least had a concussion but he may have done some major damage he there are times when he just does crazy things you know like in in liberty jail um um or in jail where he cries out and says i'm no one has suffered i've suffered more than jesus christ i've i've always been a little more patient with him than prone to condemn him because of that but we're talking about somebody who played really significant role uh let's talk about the jst we don't know the exact date that the lord commanded that this be done the joseph smith translation of the bible but we we know jo on two different places in the doctrine covenant section 42 and section 76 the words that are used the the work to which we were appointed the work to which we were appointed i mean when in first nephi 13 we're told that part of the restoration will be the restoration of plain and precious truths and many covenants of the lord well the joseph smith translation and the book of mormon have to be the bulk of of the restoration of those kinds of things the earliest date we have would be june of 1830 if you look at the manuscripts you'll see that's the first thing and what we read right away is what you and i have as moses chapter 1. that is the revelation given to moses on an unnamed mountain and so then they begin working with the book of genesis move through genesis they make it they get as far as chapter 19 i think it's verse 42 when the lord gives a revelation that is to us section 45 of the doctrine and covenants saying it's on march 7th 1831 i want you to turn now to the new testament so they've only gone 19 chapters into genesis and they begin the very next day brother matthews robert matthews who had such influence with this this great work said i'm convinced they must have gotten that revelation at night or he'd have started right then bob you mentioned that they're working on the bible what what does this look like do we know joseph smith are they reading together i think we have a pretty good idea um backing up just a little bit on the 8th of october 1829 oliver cowdery goes uh to eb grandin's store and purchases a large pulpit style edition of the bible it's produced by a king james version produced by h e finney company in cooperstown new york it weighs about five pounds this is the bible they worked with and by that what do i mean well in the beginning joseph begins reading from from the old testament and dictating to his scribe now his first scribe was oliver cowdery but oliver's called on a preaching mission to the lamanites right so john whitmer steps in emma emma was involved i've seen the manuscripts and there's a section in genesis beautiful handwriting the only beautiful handwriting of all the scribes handwriting but it's emma's handwriting and eventually sydney rigdon becomes the principal scribe sydney rigdon is to the jst what oliver cowdery was to the book of mormon okay so uh sydney joins them so it seems to me they're they're sitting down joseph is reading and as he reads dictating dictating what's to be changed at this point early in the process the scribe is writing out everything longhand i mean the whole old testament okay and uh and in and in there that would be the changes and so it's holding the bible reading from it the scribe copying down as they move into the new testament as they get to about john 6 i think it is they determine upon a shorter method and the shorter scribal method works like this i'm going to read this and include the changes but you're just now on the manuscript just going to put the change just put the change in other words you'd have a line and then here's the word that's going to be changed and so that's the way it looks and now at that point you have a problem how do you know when you look at the manuscript where the change is going to go or where it should be fitted answer at this point joseph began first in pencil marking the bible he would make for example a colon as we know it two little dots that had a meaning he would make four little dots two around the word that meant remove the word the two little dots meant insert something occasionally he would circle a word underline a word those uh those markings in the bible become very important when the rlds church produces the first edition in 1867 they hadn't yet figured out the relationship between the manuscript and the marked bible their 1944 new corrected edition as it was called that they finally figured out by then where the changes were to go exactly and so they're moving through making now making just changes on the manuscript for example when they're when they're working on john 5 and they're still writing things out at length they come to verse 29 talks about the resurrection of life and of damnation and at first they just went on and wrote it out but you can see that life and damnation have been crossed out and above them have been written just and unjust now joseph then says we marveled at that change i remember thinking many a time well it's not what you call an earth-shaking change right but i maybe they're marveling at why would we change it but they did and it's at that point that the vision of the degrees of glory is is given to them remarkable thing and of course in that room you have spencer fluman can talk to you about this more but you have in that room 12 people that are watching as joseph smith and oliver cowdery are just lit up with light and they know something's happening and they'll occasionally hear the fellow dibble says joseph would say what do i see i see this and sydney would say i see the same and sidney would say what do i see i see this and joseph would say i see the same well they did this at some length and these 12 men just sit there silently watching a cute little episode where at the very end joseph is robust and just on top of the world and sydney is he's described as being as limp as a washcloth and joseph says sydney's not as used to this as i am a great moment that is that is a great moment i think the other thing i'd say about the jst uh hank is that tremendous influence upon the revelations that are received thereafter the number of key revelations that came directly as a result of the translation or indirectly and so uh we're talking this this was not just a uh a parlor game for joseph and parley to pray and to play this was serious stuff joseph called it a branch of my calling and i think as a church for many many years we just did not take it seriously enough and it wasn't really until the work of robert j matthews in the 1960s and 70s in which he was finally given access to the marked bible and to the manuscript that we're able to determine the fact that the the published version 1944 on of the jst is to be trusted it's accurate it's what joseph smith intended robert j matthews is one of those who has had such an impact on the modern church and people don't even know who he is and he was a giant who was uh of a man who was not very tall and had a bald do we have a number of directly or indirectly uh sections of the doctrine of covenants received during the process of doing the work on the jst 76 is one 91 which is uh an interesting short revelation and what do we do with the apocrypha so that bible had the old testament it had the apocrypha in the middle and then the new testament and they come to this and joseph asked the question what do we do with this old testament apocrypha is what it was and the lord says there's some things in there that are true some things that are the interpolation of men there's no need to translate it so 91 maybe one of the more powerful ones they they would have received as early as 1831 was section 132 and the revelation that came to the prophet about eternal marriage the first he first had inclinations of that as early as 1831. it's not recorded until 1843 they know about this as early as 31. and their number of sections as you go along you can see uh that that this is directly related to the translation i think the other thing i want to say is this it wasn't that joseph would take six months and work on the jst and he'll take the next six months and receive some revelations it's happening at the same time i call it a concurrent revelatory process revelations are coming as a result of the bible translation revelations are coming in the doctrine and covenants all at one time and so it's a pretty remarkable thing i believe the jst is one of the greatest evidences of joseph smith's prophetic call i think it's it's changed my life uh you read along and you'll see some of these changes and so when someone says to me well wasn't he basically i remember someone asked brother matthews was he just kind of basically mormonizing the bible and brother matthews answered this way he said well you know if elder mcconkie had written mormon doctrine in 1830 it would have been a really short book that was his way of saying there wasn't much mormonism to use in 1830 you know yeah that's a fantastic statement he's learning the doctrine as he goes and that's one of the major reasons obviously a central reason is to restore plain and precious truths but boy what takes place in joseph's mind and heart as he goes through you watch him when he sermonizes he's always almost always quoting a biblical passage often paul by the way i have no record of it saying he picked up the bible and read no no he's quoting how would he know that that bible translation was an intense process and so it it it was a great preparation for him it seems that it may be another indication of what we talked about earlier with the lord saying i want you to do this but he has a completely different purpose in mind joseph and sydney are saying yes we're going to make some corrections here we're going to go through the bible and the lord is thinking yes you're going to do that but you're also going to be asking questions which are going to lead to the restoration absolutely that's exactly what happened you know i'd like to backtrack just a little bit and tell our listeners that if if if you go to byutv.org go under the faith section and watch a documentary called that promised day and it is all about the publication of the scriptures the quad that we have now incorporating the the jst and it is fascinating i i make my students watch for extra credit and you'll meet robert j matthews and he was on that scriptures publication committee i believe he had a lot to do with the bible dictionary that we use now he wrote it yeah that's what i heard he wrote it he had a lot to do with it and and like i said people don't even know how much of an impact he's had but just you will be so um your appreciation for the scriptures we now have and the jst which we're talking about now just go watch that promised day about the publication of the bible i was in seminary hank was a toddler i was in seminary the day that they said pass in your bibles we're going to give you a new one right now and i will never forget personally the moment of opening my bible and seeing book of mormon footnotes that was an amazing moment and doctrine and covenants and doctrine of covenants and bible dictionary and topical guide and you'll watch that uh documentary and you'll see that the footnote system that they invented was revolutionary and three columns you'll see experiments they did it is real it's really good it was an award-winning bible cambridge had never produced anything of that sort before uh by the way and i'd say this one of the questions the brethren i mean the highest brother and the senior brother and had to make during the production of the new bible the lds edition of the king james bible was whether the joseph smith translation would be included and and and the person that made that decision was spencer w kimball who said we will use it um brother matthews told me about that and so what we have here in our bibles now we have about i'd say 800 to a thousand of the 3 410 change verses but we have basically the most important ones especially the most important doctrinal ones so that that lds bible is something that latter-day saint edition let me let me say you know i was being i was about to be hired at byu and i i came out and brother matthews offered me a job and this is in summer of 1983 and i had a free day or two and education week was coming up i went to education week and brother matthews was speaking in the marriott center on the new bible and i remember him making reference to the the chapter headings in the bible that they'd all been written by elder bruce r mcconkey and at that point brother matthews became excuse me it became very emotional and he said a man like bruce r mcconkey comes about comes around about once per dispensation but the thought i had because i knew brother matthews pretty well is a man like robert matthews comes around about once per dispensation as well can i share i got to share a story i've never i don't john i don't think i've ever told you this but uh both of you teach university classes so you'll you'll understand this i i was i went to a class it was a maybe a one o'clock class i had already taught an 11 o'clock class and i had mentioned the jst i just said oh look at the joseph smith translation on this verse and i remembered this distinctively um i it was it wasn't that long ago maybe maybe a year or two i said do you know the story of the of the joseph smith translation and they all just kind of looked at me i said do you know who robert j matthew robert j matthews is and they all just kind of looked quizzically at me and i said let me tell you this because i heard him you know one before he passed away i got to hear him tell the story right just flat out tell the story about when he's listening to the general conference on the radio and he hears joseph joseph fielding smith joseph building smith inspired version and he said what is that and he started asking everybody what is that what is that and he said my mind was just i couldn't i was obsessed with it even his mission president said why are you so obsessed with this elder matthews why do you keep asking me about it do you know who his mission president was by the way no no oscar mcconkey senior bruce's father of course so i am i go intersections and just so you you you both know this the how rare this is i use almost the bulk of my time telling this story which just doesn't happen you know in a university class i just i've got to go we've got to move forward we've got things we've got to do but i spend the bulk of my time in just this one class and i thought to myself well that just threw us off right now this one class is going to be behind but i get an email later that day and i and i actually have it right here a young lady in my class said i just want to reach out and tell you thank you for sharing the story of bob matthews in class today he was my grandfather i knew that he had done a lot of work with the church but i had actually never heard the story of how he got the joseph smith papers in the translation listen to this my memories of him usually consist of gardening and bugging him while napping today brother smith before class i was talking with a friend and i mentioned i really want to learn more about my grandfather and i was so surprised when not even a half hour later you shared the story of bob matthews in the joseph smith translation thank you for sharing that story it was an answer to a granddaughter's prayer you know we had a we had a course and bob had created a course in the joseph smith translation and i had begun working on it myself independent of of bob i was in florida working on a doctorate and at florida state and i was doing some work with the jst and so i began to write bob and we i have some of the treasured letters i have asking him questions about the jst and him writing back when i started at byu bob came to me and said listen i'm going to teach the jst class he said i want you to teach the jst class in the fall and i'm going to teach it in the winter i taught it for 25 years and i have to say i love teaching the book of mormon it's obviously a a favorite of mine i love the new testament and so on and so on pearl great prize doctrine covenants taught them all but there's something special about this because i saw more students eyes just opened to when i when i gave them the historical background i remember we were covering some history and the student more than one student came up and said are we ever going to get to the changes themselves yes we're going to but the historical setting the background is so inspiring and of course i had to tell them about brother matthews because i sat in on his class he never mentioned himself and he was so instrumental in the church having it now the only time i ever heard him say anything related to i was responsible for that he told a story about being in evanston wyoming is that where he grew up he grew up there and he was like in the teacher's quorum or something and some guy that he worked with in a garage or something said hey i've got an airplane i'm going to take you flying this weekend and he's pretty excited about it and every day i'm going to take you flying this weekend i'm going to take you flying and this would have killed me because i love airplanes but finally uh it was saturday and the guy said i'm going flying tomorrow and brother matthews was like well i don't think i could go i got to go to church you know and and turned down that and went to church well that was in the days we went to church in the morning came home a little bit went back to church in the afternoon he said in the afternoon i came out of church and i think he said my sister-in-law said hey uh that airplane crashed and uh is the pilot okay yeah the pilot's okay but his passenger was killed and brother matthew said to us now i don't know had i gone up if i would have been killed but if i had this the only thing ever he said you'd have a different bible and then he just went on with class then he just went on with class and i thought that was so funny it's the only time i ever heard him say anything to pat himself on the back even a little bit you'd have a different bible i've heard many of the faculty ask bob in small groups do you think you were raised up to do this and every time he said oh oh no no no no one he and i one of the privileges was to spend so many much time with him over a 20-year period and we were on a we were on a church history jaunt he and i were just traveling between independence and nauvoo and i just poured question after question after question and one of them i said you think you were raised up to do this he said yeah i think so that's the only time that says that's the that's the greatest boasting i ever heard him do yeah he didn't he did he's very behind the scenes and and that's why i hope i end up where he was because nobody even knows who he is but what an impact he's had and he if memory serves he called the church historian of the community of christ the church of the reorganized church 13 years in a row can i see the manuscripts no no and finally there's a change in leadership he calls and the guy says yes richard p howard became the new church historian there and richard howard i'd say it this way is a little more left-leaning and so was more open to it and so bob became good friends with richard howard and for i don't know how many years he would go back for three to four weeks at a time he he stayed in a cheap cheap motel walked to the auditorium in independence which is where the manuscript and the bible were housed at the time and would sit there with his typewriter and type it up one of my treasures is that he he made his own copy of every change including marking where marks were made he even created a little circle on one page and written in the middle of it is coffee stain [Music] somebody had spilled coffee on the original manuscript and so um and and for him to be able to say i brought you something he walked in one day and he gave to me a bible that was the same bible that was printed in 1828 like the fenney bible and man uh the old testament and new testament manuscripts typed out by him with a manual typewriter that's one of my treasures oh you know i think that just for those listening we need to say okay he asked about the inspired version over and over again and the message he got back correct me if i'm wrong guys was that well we're not sure how accurate the printed inspired version is how well it corresponds with the actual manuscripts and we don't have the manuscripts the reorganized church does did i get that right and so that's why he called every year can i look at the original manuscripts and got the nose for something like 13 years in a row then finally and my memory is that he said he had photocopies at first and then because he had made such friends well here's the originals because he couldn't tell if little marks were from the photocopier or whatever and so he made friends there and that's why he had to go back there to find them and then was his master's thesis the jst or phd or something his master's thesis was a comparison of the king james and the jst on the sermon on the mount his doctoral dissertation which is this thick is the change the differences between the jst and the king james of the entire bible and what is called the bernhard manuscript a manuscript that john bernheisel a friend of the prophet made his own emma allowed him to do his own copy of the jst that dissertation was huge and what bob established among other things he learned one there are key dates on the manuscript which shows where this these things happened in the history of the church and what it would have to do with certain revelations in the doctrine covenants two this is crucial the reorganized church had been people of integrity in terms of retaining what joseph smith had done the bible could be trusted one of the questions was one of the issues was yeah but it was never finished well it depends on what you mean by finished he had he attended from everything from genesis to malachi tended to every book did he change every change that he wanted to make or felt he should make no but for that matter the book of mormon is not complete either we got more to see there we got more revelations in the doctrine covenants to come so forth so it's a it's a majestic work it's one that latter-day saints neglect at their peril it's just too important to miss i've always i've always been not very happy with the jst being backed by the maps in some cases who's who's looking back there you know let's let's bring it up forward that's that's our own sealed portion back there right well we'll talk about the the lord orchestrating events when when the john when you talked about the 1981 edition that coincides with what bob had been doing in the background for decades and those lined up perfectly they just lined up perfectly so it's another example yet of you know the lord's working his work over here he's working his work over there and they're gonna they're gonna hit at the right moment with the right players in place and it continues today let me let me point this to one verse verse 20 of section 35 this is one pregnant verse okay and a commandment i give unto thee sidney thou shalt write for him he would become his scribe and then get this language and the scripture shall be given even as they are in mine own bosom think about that what does that mean these are the way i understand the scriptures that's not bad to what to the to the helpfulness of the saints to the convenience of the saints no get that to the salvation of mine own elect the the lord is saying this is this is the way i want it this is near to my heart yeah right these scriptures are near to my heart and it's going to bless you here's here's a statement from joseph smith that's found in what's called the far west record under the date of 25 october the far rest record reads as follows joseph said the lord will cut his work short in righteousness and get this except the church received the fullness of the scriptures which was an expression describe the jst unless the church receive the fullness of the scriptures they will yet fall i think that's saying we better take them seriously yeah so one thing i really i think we've hit over and over so we don't need to uh hit it again but the lord tells sydney he has been prepared uh can we see that over and over and all the stories we've shared today that the lord is preparing people for uh for a work ahead when it comes to robert j matthews or edward partridge or orson pratt the lord is preparing these people maybe maybe sydney maybe sydney even a little more than some of the others because i mean that language of the verse is what four five six he's saying you were an elias you you laid a foundation for what took place yeah the the people in kirtland were ready yeah after the restoration but then but then i like in 17 and 18 it's like but sydney joseph is the prophet and verse 17 i've sent him in weakness have i blessed him and i have given unto him the keys of the mystery of the things which have been sealed so sydney came with such a different background of talent and experience and everything than this uh weakness of joseph but it's cool to see the lord say now okay i know who you are sydney but keep your eyes on joseph do you remember remember the story of uh that parley p pratt tells philadelphia when parley's in philadelphia and joseph contacts him and says i'm coming to visit and so joseph and sydney came to philadelphia they had a packed house so joseph could speak joseph called upon sydney to speak first in the accounts parley said and sydney spoke about the gospel illustrating all his points from the bible and then he said joseph stood up like a lion about to roar and said if nobody else can can give the credit or something like that to the the visions i've had the dreams the revelations then i will do so and leave the event with god is the way he said it i and i've heard historians who know this oh a lot better than i do say in some ways sydney never occupied quite the same place with joseph after that in other words he gets up because he he's a wonderful bible scholar yes and he does everything from the bible and joseph gets up and says no we have a modern revelation uh to talk about that goes back to what we said earlier with preach the revelations and from what i've read sydney was a powerful speaker i hope so because he spoke for two hours at the dedication of the curtin temple wow i know that he um he he was represented himself out of liberty jail in a court case laid on a table flat on his back and had the core in tears they said of of his cause so a powerful speaker and yet the lord says i call upon in verse 13 the weak things of the world those who are unlearned and despised to thrash the nations by the power of my spirit so i think i think i like what you said there john yes you have this incredible gift you have these incredible talents joseph is the prophet um and i'm going to use him almost because he is weak in these things well and that that kind of says you're going to be converted to the message and not the messenger if you're looking for credentials from joseph smith you're going to get three years of formal education so i'm going to take in the world's eyes we can learn unlearned and despised yeah yeah and sydney's the type that you would think now there's a speaker a bible scholar there's you know there's a prophet uh and yet he's he's a member of the first presidency but he is not the prophet and that might that might teach us a good applicable lesson that you know you might not think the the person the lord calls as the released society president or the bishop or the state president or even a general authority is the most talented right or the best uh for for you might not see them as best for the job but the lord is saying that's who i want um that's who i'm going to use he mentions the parable of the fig tree for even now already summer is nigh what is the parable of the fig tree uh that's verse 16. okay the parable of fig tree if i remember right is the savior pointing to a fig tree and teaching a lesson to his apostles just like the fig tree brings forth its right you know that that uh summer is nigh i i think that with fig trees leaves and fruit come at about the same time so the idea is you once you see something happening there you know it's time yeah right so there's another example of the lord using something in right in front of me to teach a teacher principle you know and the cursing of the fig tree that was a different story right the cursing of the figure is you are all hat and no cattle you are all leaves and no fruit so but yeah do you find it interesting look over in verse 25 well let's look at 24 we're getting in context keep all the commandments and covenants by which you're bound and i will cause the heavens to shake for your good and satan shall tremble and zion shall rejoice upon the hills and flourish and israel shall be saved in mine own due time and by the keys which i have given shall they be led and no more be confounded at all that's that's much of the same language paul used in romans 11 verse 26 where he just says israel will be saved all israel will be saved this is something president nelson of course has hit over and over something we've talked about on the podcast is the idea of the lord remembers the promises he made generations ago to abraham isaac and jacob whose name was changed to israel and he's going to keep those promises you said romans 11 romans 11 26 where paul says and all israel will be saved that's very interesting thought you know jesus will say to all israel come home into him i'm glad you pointed that out because that is very much like you said hank that's a president nelson theme is uh is gathering i think a theme today in our in our come follow me lesson is yes this is the lord's work yes we are his tools but he is really preparing the way all people he has a plan for and is going to use you if you want to be used in this work in an important way hank i just thought maybe a nice way to uh nice verse to look at last if we're ready for that is verse 26 it's just so positive lift up your hearts and be glad your redemption draweth nigh there's a lot of church history that we look at is pretty hard a lot of trials a lot of work a lot of leaving your family doing missionary work but the lord always has a very positive way of saying things and and i redemption drought and i redemption cometh a minute i said lift up your hearts be glad glad tidings great joy i love those phrases here yeah that is beautiful i've noticed over and over you point that out john in these sections that the lord finishes very positively for a lot of these a lot of these it's always can you not read these things and rejoice yeah section lift up your hearts and be glad well that that last verse 27 to me it's it's uh you're going through some difficult times you're going to go through some tough times but i'm coming i'm coming you won't have to do this forever fear not little flock the idea of i'm your shepherd right i'm i'm coming bob dr millet you're a scholar in every sense of the word you have i mean just prolific yeah and we're it's it's okay that we gush a little bit here john and i uh i mean when it when i think i told uh before you before you came on i think i said you know every uh religion department faculty member that wants to write a book wants a forward from robert miller he just gets asked to do a forward you know because it's almost a stamp of it's it's really a stamp of this this this this book knows what it's talking about really you've you've done incredible work and i would say that you like all the people we've talked about have been called and raised up for for this work i would love to just for a minute if we could get into personal feelings of bob millet here's someone who has studied this full time for upwards now of five decades you don't look that old but upwards now of of five decades as a teacher of the gospel longer than a lot of our listeners have been alive you have been doing this how do you how do you respond to those who maybe are going through a bit of a faith crisis or are fearful to learn too much because they don't want to go through it an experience during one of our interfaith meetings i think we were in washington dc uh the group of latter-day saints and evangelical scholars came together and uh it was just before richard bushman's book came out rolling rough stone rolling came out and uh and richard was with us and we asked richard to make a presentation of his book it was now chet but he was going to talk about it to this group most of whom were a large group by the way many more than were not in our dialogue group but a number of evangelical people were there and richard stood up and his opening line was this he said may i ask is joseph smith an impossibility for you just a dead silence richard said maybe you didn't hear my question is joseph smith an impossibility for you one of their very prominent historians spoke up and said well dick no he's not an impossibility we know god can reveal himself that way he said we don't necessarily believe that happened to joseph smith but but you know we know those things happen spiritually they went on and talked some more and one of their number cried out well bob i was kind of conducting the meeting bob you have to understand we we take the savior's words very seriously when he says beware of false prophets and i said and you should and we should i said nobody wants to be deceived i said but one day maybe you might consider taking seriously the best very next verse in the sermon on the mount what's that by their fruits you shall know them i said and i think one of the important questions is how could joseph smith pull this off how could he do it one of that same historian i was at a conference a couple of years later he was there i wasn't talking to him i was two rows behind him i had made a presentation i made a presentation at this conference and i'm sitting there we're waiting for the meeting to start and this fellow by the historian said hey uh what do you make of of of millet's presentation and he said well it was kind of interesting and the guy says what do you make of these mormons and this very prominent historian said well i'm not ready to accept gold plates or even the first vision yet but the mormon community haunts me he said it again the christian nature the christianity within the mormon community haunts me now that's a long way of saying this for me it's important to know the history it's very important to know the backgrounds it's important to know what was going on when and i salute all the historians i only wish i had more training in history now having said that the way to judge joseph smith that we haven't given enough emphasis to is what came from him the latter day saint community are very christian he said now why is that the case because what you believe affects what you do what you profess affects how you act and so for me the greatest treasure from joseph smith is the doctrine that came from him the doctrine that derives from this simple plowboy that became a prophet and and i think maybe sometimes we haven't we haven't stepped back enough and just asked how could someone like this have come up with this on his own no one claims for joseph smith that has any sense or knows any history that he was a perfect man because he certainly didn't claim it but you know what god certainly worked through him i i mean i feel regularly like brigham young who said i feel like shouting hallelujah when i think i ever knew joseph smith the prophet one of the one of the sayings that joseph uttered that to me is so powerful is this do you remember the occasion in the new testament when mark mark's gospel gives this best i think where they're in the boat they're on the sea of galilee the storm comes up jesus is asleep and of course someone they cry out saying master carest thou not that we perish jesus steals the storm and then what did they say what manner of man is this that even the storms and the winds respond to him well in much less way we worship jesus christ we worship god the father and we do not worship joseph smith but i'll tell you what i hear sayings like this and they move me when joseph said it is my meditation all the day and more than my meat and drink to know how i shall make the saints of god comprehend the visions that roll like an overflowing surge before my mind and i say what manner of man is that that's my thumb wow john again how does this happen every time i'm so full i just don't want it to stop um dr millet thank you thank you so much for your time uh and not just the time here on the podcast but your time being a mentor to people like john and me uh and to so many others thousands of students uh i just i at least want to give a public thank you for for all that you've done my pleasure to be with you it's been fun yeah we'll have to we'll have to do it again we'll have to do it again uh we're grateful for you our listeners thank you so much for spending time with us uh you out of your busy schedules we hope that this is blessing your life we hope you'll find us on social media on instagram and on facebook come to our website follow him dot co follow him dot co uh for show notes we're grateful for our producers steve and shannon sorensen uh we're grateful for our production crew david perry and lisa spice and our social media expert jamie nielsen until we meet again my friends come join us on our next episode of follow him you

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Length: 61min 6sec (3666 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 02 2021