Follow Him Episode 12 Part I : Doctrine & Covenants 27-28 : Dr. Kerry Muhlestein

[Music] welcome to follow him a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their come follow me study i'm hank smith and i'm john by the way we love to learn we love to laugh we want to learn and laugh with you as together we follow him my friends welcome to another episode of follow him a podcast designed to help individuals and families with their come follow me studies i'm here with the greatest co-host on the planet john by the way welcome john i've never been introduced that way thanks well you are of all the co-hosts i've had on podcast john i'm one of them you are you are the my favorite podcast host i'm very excited uh to introduce carrie muellstein and i'm reading this bio and just going i don't want to do any talking today i just want to listen um let me read and i can't even read the whole thing there's so much here but uh carrie received his bachelor's degree from byu in psychology with the hebrew minor as an undergraduate he spent time in the byu jerusalem center for near eastern studies in the intensive hebrew program he received an m.a masters of arts in uh ancient near eastern studies from byu and his phd from ucla in hebrew no egyptology so hebrew and egyptology where in his final year he was named ucla affiliates graduate student of the year he's taught courses in hebrew and religion part-time at byu and uvsc extension center which is now uvu as well as in history at cal poly ponoma and ucla he also taught early morning seminary at the westwood ucla institute of religion early morning seminary from an egyptologist sounds awesome uh he's the director of the byu egypt excavation project and i thought if that was an acronym that'd be beep which i think would be a cool acronym um if you go there twice it's beep beep um he was he was selected by the princeton review in 2012 as one of the three best 300 professors in the nation my goodness uh he's published six books over 55 peer-reviewed articles done over 80 academic presentations he and his wife julianne are the parents of six children and together they have lived in jerusalem he's the co-chair for the egyptian archaeology session of the american schools of oriental research well thank you thanks it's good to be with you guys i think we should add to the end of that the uh bio that uh i took a course on how to pad a bio so uh that's that's the only i ever got but i got it in that class all right carrie let's jump in um we are going to be in sections 27 and 28 of the doctrine and covenants um the date that i see here in the section heading is august of 1830. our church is now just four and a half months old i i tease my students when i teach this i'll say it was just a little baby church picture a little four and a half month old right it's just a brand new church um what leads up can you tell us what leads up to this revelation what's life like for joseph smith and his friends there are i think a number of important things that are happening just before this so as you said i mean the book of mormon has just come forth they've just organized the church um they're getting close to so that organization is at the first conference of the church that's in april right and and this comes in august in september they're going to have the second conference of the church so they're getting close to that um and uh another a couple significant things that have happened that will affect a little bit section 27 but even more section 28 when we get there sometime in june so you know midway between april and and uh when the church is organized and this happens uh joseph smith has a a revelation that he calls the visions of moses we now call it moses chapter one but that has just come to him um and uh sometime in between there uh we know sometime in between july and the end of september most likely towards the end of september um and again this this may coincide with the reception of section 28 he gets a second as he's working now on the joseph smith translation of the bible he calls it the new translation so that's that's a project he's starting right as these things are happening and um and he receives a kind of vision or revelation that will become moses two and three that also happens we all we know is sometime between july and october for sure but evidence places it most likely towards the end of august or probably towards the end of september but uh that's the setting that's leading up to these things so he's getting revelations that we put in the doctrine of covenants but he's also getting revelations that we later put in the book of moses for them right now they're just a whole bunch of revelations coming uh from all sorts of sources including working on the translation of the bible so that's some of the background i'll i'll mention this um one thing that i i don't think i understood uh before you know looking into it was the the role of the joseph smith translation project of going through the bible and the restoration i don't think i understood that early on but i think it's pretty instrumental for our listeners to understand this was part of the process of the lord saying you're going to go through the bible and and in going through the bible you're going to start asking questions and those questions are going to enable me to continue to restore the gospel is that would you say i okay that's better than me well i think i think a lot of the revelations we have in in the doctrine of covenants are the result of questions that happen as they do the translation so this is something you can discuss in your next week's podcast uh because for example it looks like we can't tell for sure but it looks like there's a pretty good chance that that moses two and three are received right at about the same time that section 29 is received and section 29 is about the fall two and three is the creation and then the next thing he's going to do is the joe smith translation so i mean all of this is interconnected they're just he's learning about creation and fall in a number of different uh ways but all revelation from heaven so they're absolutely interconnected very good yeah i uh you know i think i would have thought early on oh the joe smith translation i'm getting a correct version of the bible whereas prob that was maybe a a side issue was hey we're going to correct some things have been lost out of the bible but more importantly we're going to be asking questions that are going to lead to uh the restoration of certain principles and doctrines yeah that that yeah the lord's he's going to soon read about enoch right and let's start asking questions about zion and that's going to become a huge part of their lives yeah in fact i think the revelations about zion and enoch also coincide and we're going to see that this i think moses chapter 1 casts light on section 28 so we'll talk about that when we get to section 28 but i think all of these things interact with each other in ways that we because we compartmentalize them we put them in little boxes that's a dnc box that's a book of moses box we we sometimes don't recognize how well they uh they interacted for as far as the saints just receiving a flow of revelation that that restored truth yeah it was when i i think i remember i was when i met bob matthews and i thought who's bob matthews and then all of a sudden this joseph smith translation project uh took on new role john anything about joel smith translation before we jump in oh i'm so glad you you mentioned that i know that uh joseph mcconkey used to tell us he said that for joseph smith translating the book of mormon was gospel 101 it it's so strong on first principles faith in christ repentance baptism holy ghost and when he went to the jst it was graduate school that's the way joseph mcconkey put it and i think that's a wonderful thing for people to see it reminds me of the line in the spirit of god like a fire is burning uh the lord is extending the saints understanding and i feel like it's almost like the uh the funny metaphor of trying to drink from a fire hydrant where it's all coming at once and and now we've had years to go over and pour over these things but imagine the volume of it coming all at once and and trying to uh as as carrie said we're putting it in boxes but they were getting it all at once that's a really cool idea right that the moment they're just get one there comes another one out the you know out of the pipeline in fact to tie that together with your book of mormon thing sometimes we forget this time right that so that translated the book of mormon it took him a little while to get it published but for the saints receiving it the book of mormon comes in spring of 1830 book of moses starts in summer of 1830 right it's just the lord doesn't he's not giving him a break he has given them plenty to try and digest yeah that we've had we've had decades you know decades in centuries to to look at these things while they're getting them hot off the press uh literally off the press um anything else before we get into section 27 carrie that you'd say hey you need to understand this as background yeah and and i think some of this you can get i even brought this in my uh picture to see but some of this you can get from the come follow me uh manual so at the time uh joseph and emma uh just before section 27 is received um they've visited the knight family the knight family as you know were some of his earliest supporters they were in new york they they were involved with the translation of the book of mormon and as a support and so on so uh just before this uh emma and sally knight that's uh newell knight's wife had been baptized and uh they were going to confirm them and make that you give them the gift of the holy ghost when there were some threats from mobs and and they kind of had to stop and break up at that point so they weren't confirmed for a period of time so uh now joseph and emma are in harmony and the knights are going to visit them and uh they decide let's let's confirm uh emma and sally let's let's give them a gift of the holy ghost and get this done and so they're going to do that at a meeting they're going to have it's kind of like we did recently they're going to have sacrament meeting in their home but they want some wine to do that and and so joseph is on his way to get that wine and it's uh as he's uh doing that that this revelation comes to him a messenger he says a heavenly messenger meets him and and delivers this information it's almost i i hate to say this but it's almost old hat to say this now joseph smith talked to a heavenly messenger right like at this point i was on i was on my way to the forum and to get some wine and uh an angel came right so yeah that's just how it goes not at the office it's just joseph's life just joseph's lives interacting with divine beings you know i i think that it's significant too that i like to tell my students and i almost all of the sections of the doctrine of covenants came as a result of a question there are some exceptions john taylor announcing the martyrdom and this one i think because it wasn't it was just i'm going to get some wine and he's interrupted in that process which makes this kind of unique would you would you say yeah oh yeah well um let's jump into the section itself itself and maybe give us big picture what is the message to joseph and the church and why is this important for us to have today so i think there are a couple of different messages they're intertwined but we'll miss some of them if we don't look carefully for them so i mean the first message is really about the the symbolism of the sacrament and that it doesn't always have to be the exact same thing that will convey that symbolism right so he's on his way to get wine and if we look at verse two well verse one is worthwhile this is uh we've had this a couple times we've got it in this verse we're going to get a whole string of sections in the doctrine covenants where the first verse is always christ introducing himself and telling us something about his nature or who he is all right so in this one he says he's your lord your god and your redeemer whose word is quick and powerful so all of those are things that tell you something about who he is and he just does that in section after section to make sure we know who he really is and i i think that's worth looking at that word quick if one of my children said what does he mean that his word is quick is that the same quick as you see in both the quick and the dead that idea um for many people think of that way i mean he doesn't give us a definition right so typically it's scripturally when we talk about quick or being quickened it means life right it means that you've got some kind of of power and life to it and so there's probably something to that here but it may also be because often this uh quick and powerful word is associated with the sword that cuts through things and there may be something to the fact you know i think that word can play a double uh purpose here because it is a live power but it also is something that you know a sword that's going to cut through joint and marrow that's that's the kind of thing that's associated with his word frequently that's moving quickly right so i i would guess that there's more than one meaning intended here that's a book of mormon idea right mormon love that idea of the word is like a sword yeah it will pierce you to the soul uh but the next verse is when he's he's really going to move into talking about the sacrament and and i love this phrase we actually get this phrase a number of times in the doctrine and covenants as well where he says it mattereth not and then you know sometimes this matter if not to me whether you go by land or by sea or whatever else it just gives you this idea that some things matter and some things don't matter right so for him it doesn't matter exactly what we're gonna drink if it's so be that you do it with an i single to my glory remembering unto the father my body which was laid down for you on my blood which was shed for for the remission of your sin so those here we have christ telling us what the key elements of the sacrament are that we have to do it in remembrance of what he's done for us and with an eye single to the glory of god whether it is um wheat bread or like we've just started using gluten-free bread in my ward whether it's wine or grape juice or water is not the issue now there's symbolism actually in all of those things and it's worth looking into the symbolism i love the symbolism of the water and i love the symbolism of wine they're they're both great i don't want us to stop taking the symbols seriously because there's a power in symbolism and i think we don't address that enough the actual thing we're taking he's telling us is less important than our intent as we take it and i think that's uh one of the key elements of this revelation i like that i like that a lot uh because it helps me in my own in my own home to try to say okay what's the most crucial point here some things are important some things are crucial to me that's yes the symbols are important but why we do it is crucial i've read in uh in war-torn europe world war ii they there was no bread to be found so they had to use potato peelings yeah um and i think the lord would say it mattereth not right that's right matter if not it's okay it's okay i think i've uh you know it to some soldiers all they could find was a candy bar and my kids would love that if it was if it was candy bar and if i remember correctly sometimes they use shell casings to put the water in to partake of the sacrament right that's okay whatever whatever works right i love it i mean it the the the actual items themselves are important but they're not the most important i really like that yeah i'm intrigued with things that the lord has us repeat and the sacrament is is a weekly thing and the word remembering i i just had to remember in there and i i love quoting this i think it'll change the way my students read the book of mormon to watch for remember and it's opposite forget and there's an old president spencer w kimball quotation where he said um when you look in the dictionary for the most important word do you know what it is he said it could be remember um because all of us have made covenants to remember and we think of nephi saying how could you have forgotten three times in a row to his brothers we think of helaman saying oh remember remember and uh and how quickly that pride cycle goes up and down and here's a weekly remembrance and keep your eyes single to uh to the savior what's important and and there's a hierarchy like you said yes the symbols are beautiful and we can draw meaning from them but it's all about remembering christ yeah and i think i think as you say that you hit on a really key element we often don't recognize that helps us see a theme that i i think often is under uh recognized in this chapter uh and and it's kind of fun that you talked about how often the book of mormon says remembering because i i have not quantified this for sure so one day maybe i'll sit down and count and say but i tell my students at least my impression is if you're just going to talk about the themes in the book of mormon that are talked about most often it would be number one christ and his atoning sacrifice it would be number two promises made to the house of israel and three remembering but two and three are actually intertwined because one of the covenantal obligations for israel is to remember what god has done for them and i find that really interesting because here we're talking about the sacrament which is when we renew the covenant right and that's that's interesting because emma and sally are about to renew the baptismal covenant so they can do the confirmation but we're renewing the covenant so this is the covenant it's a and and this is another thing that i find um members of the church are sometimes a little confused on we we talk about the new and everlasting covenant the abrahamic covenant our baptismal covenant we don't know how they they relate they're all the same thing right so no one ever lies everlasting covenant abrahamic covenant are are two different names for the same thing i mean abrahamic covenant has some connotations of a specific time and place that the new and everlasting covenant is renewed and so on um and baptism is the way we enter into that right so it's not a surprise that um that right after we get him talking about renewing this covenant and remembering and and then he goes on to tell them that that you shouldn't purchase wine from your enemies right so we have him still addressing this specific thing and that's always a good idea don't don't get drinks from your enemies all right um i'm just going to throw that out as general advice and then he he says that at some point he will come and partake of this with him i think that's what he means when he says he'll drink of the fruit of the vine and then he goes through this list of people who he will have do that with so who he will go through this covenant renewal ceremony with and he starts with with moroni um and and tying it in with the book of mormon but immediately says the stick of reform so immediately he's tying that in with israel and then he's going to talk about elias now elias here is a title that's getting used for a number of people so this is a part that can also be confusing to people elias is the greek version of the name elijah so sometimes elias means elijah but often it's a title for a forerunner which elijah is a forerunner but so is john so is gabriel actually so zechariah's and they're all going to be mentioned here right so he talks about um the forerunner for john which is gabriel who comes he's going to talk about john being a forerunner and then john of course is the one who was sent to oliver cadre and joseph smith to give them the priesthood you know the baptismal covenant when they partake of the sacrament that was that ability was given to them by john the baptist right and then he immediately takes that into elijah and elijah is an elias who will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers now this is an important thing to stop and think about as well because we typically um as members of the church think of that as as temple work right turning or family history work during the hearts of the children of the fathers and the fathers to the children and it is that but i think that we're getting a smaller piece of the puzzle if that's all we think of so i think and and maybe you know right now president nelson has told us to look at the blessings promised to israel and study that and and i've just written a book on that and so and people are asking about that a lot right now because they're trying to figure this out so maybe i'm just like super covenant focused right now and i'm seeing it everywhere and you'll have to tell me if i'm seeing it where it's not but i think being super covenant focused is probably a good thing i'm just going to throw that out there as a good a general piece of advice like you said don't we have two now don't buy drinks from your enemies and super covenant focused is okay all right so okay so we'll keep a list of good general advice yeah so this is talking about elijah but it's talking about malachi's prophecy to elijah right and if you were to go back to malachi's original audience the israelites and you say the pro fathers turn your heart to the fathers the fathers they think of are abraham isaac and jacob which by the way is who is mentioned in the next verse right and so if you mention abraham isaac and jacob what you're really doing is you're talking about the covenant god made with them and that would have been clear to the original audience malachi's original audience the israelites i think when christ comes and quotes malachi to the nephites who are israelites and are very conscious of being israelites that it's clear to them in our day we we kind of we're not quite as covenant conscious or well president nelson's getting us there but we haven't always been quite as covenant consciousness and especially in joseph smith's day that that idea of a covenant had really been lost um and so it's interesting that when moroni quotes this to joseph smith he he quotes it differently than it is in the book of mormon or in the bible and he says he will turn your hearts to the promises made to the fathers right now that's very clearly about the covenant and abraham isaac and jacob and it's almost it seems to me that he's he's just yeah i mean i don't know but i would guess he's changing it a little bit because his current audience needs that change to know what they're talking about the earlier audiences got it needed a little help at that point and again it's in case we're missing it when we read verse 9 where it says elijah unto whom i have committed the keys to the power of turning the hearts of the fathers to the children in the hearts of the children to the fathers that the whole earth may not be submitted with the curse in case we're going to miss that he immediately goes to verse 10 and also with joseph and jacob and isaac and abraham your fathers by whom the promises remain right you cannot get more clear than this i think he is telling them you are part of the abrahamic covenant this is essential for you and it's tied to the sacrament in this section right that's the the covenant you entered into a baptism so when you're taking the sacrament and renewing it uh it's the same covenant and so he's just walked them through how at some point he will renew that covenant with all of these key covenant players including verse 11 also with michael or adam the father of all the prince of all the ancient days which is is again crucial because when abraham receives the covenant in abraham chapter one he's very very specific that what he's looking for is the same covenant that adam the first of all had right and so christ is making that same connection here you're crucial this is a crucial point that we call it the abrahamic covenant but really it was started all the way back to adam and like you said it's all the way through till today it might come by different names but it's the same idea of i'll make you certain promises right if you will live up to uh these certain obligations that you've been that you've been given and i think one of the kind of fun things about the book of abraham is when it begins abraham is saying i sought for the blessings of the fathers and you're like wait a minute you're one of the fathers you're the father you're abraham isaac and jacob and so i think you're right it it's uh that god made the same covenant with with michael with enoch adam with enoch and others and so uh we've called it the abrahamic covenant um because he he kept it so well modeled so maybe it's similar to why we call the melchizedek priesthood after melchizedek because he was such a great high priest um and we call this the abrahamic covenant because he wanted the same thing that his fathers had had received is that a fair way to put it kerry yeah i think so i think there's another element as well but i think that's absolutely correct that that's one of the reasons but but additionally there is a change that comes with abraham and that is that after abraham anyone who will become part of the covenant will be abraham's seed right and so i think that's also part of the reason why we'll refer to it as the abrahamic covenant because that's that's now the the next source we'll also talk about it as and this is what president nelson did in general conference as the blessings promised to israel because additionally anyone who becomes part of this covenant will become part of the house of israel so the the names abraham and israel get continually associated with this covenant from here on out because that's the family that you will now belong to and and i think this is important to understand that salvation is a family affair god is saving families and so what he's done is he's tasked a family with getting everyone else to become part of the covenant or become part of that family and and this ties into what i was talking about with the you know turning the hearts of the fathers to the the children and the children of the fathers and we think of that as family history well it is but we need to think of it as not just a great grandma joanne who we should think of um but also great great great grandma rachel and rebecca and sarah and asanov and and so on right we need to think of this as a huge family history that ties us back to abraham and then to adam and the idea is that god wants us all to become part of this family so that we're connected the covenant connects us vertically to god but it connects us horizontally to all to each other in a family right so that i i think that's fantastic we talk about the human family but he's wanting us to become on another level the human family to be sealed together through that covenant to each other and to him which is as beautiful so and again i think as as people i mean this has become such a a big thing right now where people are trying to understand the blessings promised the house of israel and sometimes they're struggling to to to find those blessings well when you recognize what's going on here you see this whole section actually is about blessings promised to israel and one of them is you can renew your covenant by partaking of the sacrament and you be connected to everyone right so this section is absolutely about blessing's promise to israel yeah this is this is this is fantastic stuff and i you know when i when i explain this to my students you'll see the light bulb go on oh i didn't know that you know oh those are connected those stories are connected for example we use the name israel but a lot of people wouldn't know where that comes from so let's do a little gospel 101 here kyrie where does the name israel even come from that you you you use them interchangeably abraham isaac and jacob and then you talk about the israelites or israel where does that come from and that's that's a great question again the same uh talk president nelson kind of highlighted that right that when jacob um wrestles and man we could go on i i could get into this wrestling with the angel story for an hour i think it's so fantastic when jacob is there but he's coming back into the land of canaan because god asked him to and he is afraid his brother is going to kill him and his entire family so much so that he's sending gifts to his brother he's divided his family in half so that if maybe half of them get killed half can survive i mean it's a real concern for him that his brother might kill them all but he's going anyway not because he wants to not because he's hoping his family will get killed but because god asked him to so he's making an abrahamic sacrifice right he's he's willing to sacrifice his entire family if that's what god is asking him to do but then he prays once he's done everything he can think of doing he prays and he asks god save me and save my family and that's when he starts to wrestle with with an angel and again that's that symbolism right and the text seems to make it clear it's it's a real wrestle because his thigh gets thrown out of joint but it's also a spiritual wrestle right and and because he wrestles and the angel tries to leave and he will not let go he's hanging on he is not going to let go until he gets the blessing he wants um then god says as a prince you have prevailed and so i'll change your name to israel which there you can and translate that a couple of ways one is that that he has prevailed with god so that sar part of that is is wrestler prevail persevere and the l is god right so he will prevail with god is one way of translating it and another is that god will prevail right and i think both are intended i think it's a name that's intentionally just vague enough to mean both uh and so that's that's part of what president nelson has been talking about that god will prevail right or let god prevail um and and so on and uh and frankly that's why the book i just wrote on the abrahamic covenant i called god will prevail because this idea is that when you make this covenant with god you are allowing him to prevail in your life and as a result he will cause you to prevail um and uh that's that's what what jacob's name is changed to and so inherent with the name change which denotes a change in nature he's a higher holier being and so on um is the idea that he is he's leveling up in the covenant we could if we're going to use you know gaming terminology that might be my nephew yeah he's he's leveling up in the covenant made the covenant of bethel but here at peniel he levels up further into the covenant kind of like we do we enter into baptism but we level up as we go to the temple level up in temple marriage he has demonstrated that god fully and completely prevails in his life and as a result god is promising him now you're going to prevail and that is available to us because we make the same covenant and we renew the same covenant in the way that it's being talked about here in section 27. oh i love that that's excellent and oftentimes you know someone might say why did the lord change jacob's name to israel and i'll say it happens in our life all the time the lord gives us a new covenant and he changes our name when we were baptized we took upon us the name of christ when you go to the temple you get a new name and i've had students say is that the name i was known by in the pre-mortal life and i'll say no not at all uh that's the name that it's a symbol just like you said it's a symbol because you're a new person right you're a new person i hate to burst their bubble but you're a new person it's it's a symbol that you are that you're brand new you know kerry i've noticed in the book of mormon the parts that talk about the hebrew cabinet abrahamic covenant are the ones that everybody skips second nephi right with all the isaiah chapters people are like well i don't really understand that i'll just keep going then they get it like completely about the abrahamic conan but anyway right yeah yeah then you get to jacob five and you're going i don't that's a lot of pruning there's a lot of dung going on i don't know what's happening i'll skip that and i don't like dunking anyway right yeah yeah move on and then you've got to save your second day with the nephites which whenever i ask my students about the savior's visit they talk about him putting you know letting them come up and touch his hands his feet he blesses the children which are all incredible events but they never talk about the second visit the next day which is all house of israel so you could if you read the book of mormon and skip second nephi jacob five and the savior's second day of the nephites you're gonna miss you're gonna miss what we're talking about here yeah that's exactly right and and i i'll see it's dangerous to get me going on this topic because i'll go for forever but keep going um but i do see an interesting parallel so i've actually i have gone through and counted how many times something about the covenant is mentioned in in the book of mormon and uh and and which prophets are doing it the most so you get uh covenant mentioned a ton as you said first nephi second nephi and jacob are those are the places you find it the most then it really kind of starts to drop off um it's still pretty good in enos and and jerem but it really drops off so that by the time you get to helium it's barely mentioned at all um and the first part of third nephi is barely mentioned where it comes back is third nephi 10 with the voice of the savior and then like you say chapters 15 through 20 are all abrahamic covenant 29 and 30 are all abrahamic coming i mean it's a ton it really feels like that christ issues a little bit of a corrective to them and says you haven't been thinking as much so i'm going to talk about it and again christ talks about the covenant more than any other theme when he's with the nephites by far it dwarfs every other theme it always makes me laugh in 35 on the savior's first day he starts to quote isaiah to them and then he says i notice you're getting yeah you're getting a little sleepy yeah why don't you go home and we'll talk about this tomorrow and we do the same thing in our classes right i know i was going to say those of you who are listening to this going i'm kind of lost i don't understand it don't worry don't worry it's uh it happens to everyone including record right in the book of mormon from jesus himself so keep going kerry i almost feel like and this is just my opinion this isn't doctrine or anything but i almost feel like we're seeing the same thing in modern church history at the beginning of this dispensation joseph smith uh parliament john taylor these guys are talking about brigham young they're talking about the covenant a ton and they're tying us in with abraham with isaac and jacob all over the place and it's really strong at the beginning and then it slowly kind of starts to to go down and president nelson is bringing us right back up just like that same curve we saw in the book of mormon president nelson is serious about us understanding the abrahamic covenant and and what it has to do with our lives and he tells us this is the greatest cause on the earth today and he says that two or three times right and yet i'm finding that that a lot of saints they they catch the the enthusiasm he has for it but they're not quite sure what to do about it so that's kind of become one of my little missions of latest like i've created websites with this written a book written articles i'm just trying to help people understand what president elton is doing with all of this when i teach a book of mormon i love to just joke about hey if you're going to write a book or give a talk here's a formula tell him what you're going to tell him and then tell him and then tell him what you've told him and i'll put the title page of the book of mormon next to the last page and on the title page it says which is to show unto the remnant of the house of israel the great things the lord hath done for their fathers that they may know the covenants of the lord that they're not cast off forever and then convincing jew and gentile that jesus is the christ and the last line ye may be found spotless at his judgment seat and then i show him the last page and in verse the book of mormon ends with moroni 10 34 moroni 10 31 that the covenants of the eternal father which he hath made unto thee o house of israel may be fulfilled and then come unto christ be perfected in him and then end of verse 33 that ye may become holy without spot christ covenants and you can become spotless through the atonement title page last page and every page in between i think it was elder bednar that said the central recurring theme of the book of mormon is the invitation to come unto christ uh but covenants are in there constantly and i tell them the same thing with isaiah watch the isaiah chapters watch for christ watch for covenants yeah and moroni actually twice equates the covenant with israel with the glory of god right and then we have in moses where he says his work in his glory is to bring to past immortality and eternal life of man well the covenant is where we're promised eternal life right i mean it's all intertwined here but sometimes we miss a part of it so it's it's fun stuff it is and i i didn't think we'd be talking book of mormon but that that that's fun because uh i i think that um can i say this in the modern day we talk more about i am a child of god and i like to say we are and so is everybody but we have another level of understanding we are also abraham's seed and what does that mean and that's that's when we can talk about the covenant and the last part that all the families of the world can be blessed i mean i just love that part as you've talked about so beautifully carrie that's what it's about we're going to unite this family and bless all of the families of the world because of the abrahamic covenant right and i think one part that we that is missed on us is that we don't understand the quote gathering of israel because we probably don't understand the scattering of israel and if you go back if you do a little bit of your history and you look at what happened when israel decided they wanted a king right they come into the promised land with joshua centuries later they want a king and samuel says this is a bad idea but they go for it anyway and they choose saul david and solomon it just kind of you know i told you it was a bad idea there's a lot of i told you so's along the way and then it divides into two separate kingdoms you have the northern kingdom and the southern kingdom the northern kingdom is called israel the southern kingdom is called judah and they eventually both are taken and what we don't recognize is that lehi nephi jacob they're all part of the scattering of israel that's why they talk about the gathering so much they love isaiah because he talked about the future gathering um i gotta read i gotta i do this with my with my students um this is from elder elder bednar from enzyme from the uh general conference of 2005. he said i give them this part of the quote and see if they can finish it we were foreordained in the pre-mortal existence and born into mortality too and i'll stop it right there why were we born and the typical answer is to get a body right to get a body and to be tested and that's not what he says i'll show them the end we were fortunate in the pre-mortal existence and born into mortality to fulfill the covenant and promise god made to abraham i have two nine-year-old twin boys it'd be funny if they their primary teacher said why did we come to earth right they say to fulfill the covenant and promise god made to abraham right because that that we've we've forgotten it kerry you're exactly right we've forgotten it and we've some of us have missed it in the book of mormon entirely that we're not just here to do that we are here to to bring to pass the promised gathering made by isaiah right uh and i want to ask you carrie about this verse and we've already read it but and and please fill in any thoughts that you just had come to you section 27 verse 9 about malach the the prophecy of malachi about elijah correct me if i'm wrong but i think this is probably one of the most if not the most quoted verse it's in all of our standard works it keeps coming up over and over again and yet when i see it i don't know if i quite understand it i quoted it to joseph smith jesus quotes it to the nephites this this verse isn't going away this is the second time it's in the doctrine and covenants right so how would you understand it and then one other thing is why does he list of all the tribes but why does he list he lists abraham isaac and jacob but you also see joseph there yeah one of the 12 tribes and i'll ask my students i'll say who saved the family from the famine and they all know it was joseph and i'll say who's going to save them from the spiritual famine and again i think the lord has called on the tribe of joseph or his sons ephraim and manasseh to save the children all right i'm going to turn it over to you what else what are you thinking so there are some really important elements in there so let's first of all we'll do the the first part of the question in a second so um with uh the the promise or and and note how he says the keys of the power of turning the hearts of the fathers to the children right these are keys that were bestowed and we know in the kirtland temple that elijah and moses come to restore keys and they're both associated with the covenant and the gathering of israel both of their keys are we usually think of it as just ceiling keys to perform temple marriage but it's more than that again temple marriage is specifically about sealing us together as a family with abraham it's it's entering or leveling up more in the abrahamic covenant right so uh this idea is really i mean so let's take the way more or more and i quoted it to joseph smith it is that our hearts are turned to the promises made to the father we have to become more covenant conscious family history is absolutely part of that and doing temple work is absolutely part of that crucial parts let's not forget that i'm not i'm not dissing that right but but we lose some of the power in doing it if we don't recognize that it's part of this great overarching covenant that god wants us to turn our hearts to so that again i hope people read genesis and exodus as family history every bit as much as they read their grandma's journal right i i hope we think of sarah as much as we think of our our pioneer ancestors or ancestors that joined the church in zimbabwe or wherever else right i i hope that we uh we understand that what we're trying to do is have our family be part of this covenant and participate in the blessings promised to israel that's what i think those keys are about and then it's interesting that you you mentioned joseph joseph is mentioned in there along with abraham isaac and jacob right he's that next line in and then as you said the next line down is is ephraim and manasseh so what happens is and and if we're going to talk about this i think we need to have a little bit of a larger discussion and make sure we understand it correctly because the world doesn't want us to understand this correctly and has been trying to get us to misunderstand this all right if joseph receives the birthright blessing now judah kind of does too and that's another story but judah kind of does too and he's going to have kings come through him most especially christ right so let's not ignore that's that's a pretty important thing right but joseph receives the birthright blessing and when we hear birthright we think power privilege prestige right it's it's called a leadership it's for sure a call to leadership but when we hear leadership same thing the world has conditioned us to think power and prestige right its condition is so much that joseph smith later so you'll do this in a podcast at the end of the year where it says as soon as you get a little authority you use it for your vain ambition right unrighteous dominion that's exactly right that is not what authority or that's not what leadership is about leadership is a call to service so christ explains this well when he talks to um james and john who come to him and they say let us sit on your right in your left hand and he says to them and i think this is an exact quote he says you guys don't get it right you just you're not getting this isn't that's an exact quote yeah that's that's the exact quote that's in my version it was it was lost in translation the king james translators put it a different way but i think it originally said in english you don't get it so um and then he says the the princes of the gentiles want to exercise authority over them but that's not how it should be with you whoever would be greatest should be least whoever is going to you know be a i can't remember now exactly but you have to be the servant of all is what he says right right that's what according to christ leadership really is it's not authority or prestige it's you serve you're the lowest you're the least you serve everyone else so when joseph is given a call to leadership it's not to say you're better than everyone else and when he's given blessings of great posterity and all sorts of other things it's not so he can be more cool it's so that he has enough people to do what he's been asked to do and what he's being asked to do is to gather all of israel and then as israel is gathered they need to gather all the world and that's part of the the benefit they're scattered because they're they're wicked and they need to be humbled but the side benefit and i think it's an intended side benefit is that once you're scattered to all the world when you're gathered you can bring the whole world with you and that's exactly what they're supposed to do um and uh and even nasa as well and ephraim will be the the lead of those two but they both receive this charge in this blessing and president nelson's been specific they both have the charge to lead out in gathering israel and if you compare their blessings they're given the same blessings and ephraim is told he'll be given more of it but the more seems to be like literally more people more descendants numerically so that you can do what i'm asking you to do so basically and that's what the birthright always was the birthright child was given a lot of things he was supposed to do to take care of the family so he's also given an extra inheritance or portion of the inheritance so that he was given the tools to do what he needed to do and so that's exactly what this this birthright or leadership call is for joseph and his two sons e from manasseh is that they are given a task and god is giving them enough people and and ability to go out and do that task and that task is get the whole world to be part of this family get them all sealed to me and to each other so that we can be exalted together and have the kind of relationship that we should have with each other and god promised abraham he would do that and he's using the latter day ephraim and manasseh and others those who can be adopted in to go out and be the net i like what you said there the scattering is like a big net i'm gonna throw you all over so when i gather you grab on to people because i'm gonna i'm gonna bring you home and what i think it's nephi who says uh they carry them on their shoulders right they carry them in their arms as if they're these these these service oriented people uh same in the gospel of john the savior washes their feet this is how we lead in this church i like to my kingdom i like to tell my students being chosen doesn't mean to sit on a throne and be admired it's more like being chosen to mow the lawn and uh and then we talk about the the to bear the ministry is one of the phrases in the abrahamic covenant so it's obviously a blessing because we have the blessings of the priesthood and and the gift of the holy ghost and everything that comes with it but it's a burden as well and so they're they're calling it now a lot of times president nelson the work of salvation and any time you do anything that helps anyone to come closer to christ make a covenant with him in the temple that you're helping to gather israel you're doing the greatest work in the world so uh i'm excited to i want to get your book carrie i i want to read it i hope i hope you do and i it may put you to sleep but i hope not john um i'm just gonna have to say this that i was reading i up on my timeline of world history and august of 1830 which is when we're receiving this exact section the doctrine covenants is when the lawn mower was patented by edwin beard budding the exact same time so i think you're inspired to talk about chosen to mow the lawn alone carrie let's let's get back into the section we did do a little tangent there off into the house of israel but i think it was an important tangent yeah well i mean actually the central part of the section but yeah right yeah yeah yeah you just can't the lord's just not saying hey we're going to have a big sacred meeting and look who's going to be there it's going to be star-studded right he names these people on purpose because this is the covenant of abraham and and it goes with the next verse as well right peter james and john who are apostles but again those are people who restore the keys of the covenant so anyway sorry keep going no i think you're i think you're right on here this um this meeting when you when we said in 27 5 when the lord said uh i will drink of the fruit of the vine with you i thought of my new testament uh luke 22 this ties in beautifully when the savior is with his last evening with the apostles this is luke 22 18 for i seen you i will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of god shall come to me that's a big verse because the kingdom of god here we are the doctrine covenants the kingdom of god is coming yeah and and i think it's a clear illusion i think when christ says this in verse 5 is section 27 he is absolutely alluding to what he told his apostles and he wants us to make that connection 22 yeah yeah i think sometimes i've taught my students oh isn't this great all the sacrifices that were offered pointed to the those events of the of the atonement and now the sacrament points uh backwards to those events of the atonement but now i'm seeing uh as i'm reading these it's there's also a future sacrament reading that it is pointing to and i like verse 14 and also with all those whom my father hath given me out of the world that uh yeah those people are going to be here but it sounds like we are too or maybe have that opportunity that all of us will be there speaking of blessing all of the families of the world and there's a future sacrament meeting let's have carrie answer that but john i really like that that idea of the sacrament isn't now just about looking backwards to the atonement we're looking forward forward to the second coming of the lord here he comes i think that's a crucial point that could that could really change your sacrament experience not just looking backwards but also looking forward to the lord's coming and and having the sacrament again all right carrie over to you oh no that's right and and to the full fulfillment of the covenant right because again we're renewing the abrahamic or all of our covenants at the sacrament and the full culmination of that is exaltation but this is an important step along the way when we do this with christ right all those whom my father hath given me out of the world which again i think is a clear allusion to both john 17 and and john 6 where he talks about those whom the father has given him right so this section alludes to scriptures all over the place including the next part right the next part is all in ephesians 6 illusion before we go there just wanted to mention that the manual has you go to dnc 110 and i thought yeah because a lot of these uh wonderful individuals who have been mentioned uh showed up personally at the kirtland temple to restore keys yeah um and so i thought hey i'm looking at the list here this list sounds familiar yeah that's exactly well i think this is the prophecy that those keys will come and be restored right it's going to be a few years about six years but um uh but still they're working towards that if anybody listening uh is able to go on a church history tour hopefully they'll start those up again and open the sites make sure you see the painting just inside the door at the kirtland visitor center uh area of um there's a line of angels coming down one at a time and joseph and oliver there behind the pulpits of the kirtland temple it's it's beautiful that's the walter rain is right i don't know if it's a wall terrain i i wouldn't be surprised it's beautiful but it it's uh just when i saw it and i think of 110 i think of that that line the visions and blessings of old are returning and angels are coming to visit the earth and the look on joseph's face in that painting you've got to see it right inside the kirtland visitor center that always reminds me of this sorry oftentimes i feel like you know how you watch a fitness video and there's two really good ones and then there's a modified version i feel like the modified version sometimes in this podcast because i had never realized um that each one of these people that are listed in this section were part of the restoration and if you i probably had never realized it just because of the inclusion of joseph jacob isaac and abraham but now carrie's taught us this is part of the restoration is the covenant then you've got adam peter james and john elijah john elias right this is a restoration we're going to bring everybody back at once and have a big sacrament meeting you know what it's elegant and it makes sense it's symmetrical i mean it wasn't just the first vision it was that was the beginning of this delegation of all these others with keys which just makes me go i love the symmetry i love the elegance of that to use a couple of lofty words and and even in the first vision in one of the accounts of the first vision christ says that that the reason he's appearing is because they've broken his everlasting covenant and then in one of the versions of moroni's visit he says that he's there to restore the everlasting covenant wow and and it's all aiming i mean in many ways the the first vision the book of mormon the building of the temple are aimed at being able to have this covenant fully restored and that's what all all the people here are associated with covenant and keys all the people listed in here right here they are in northern pennsylvania and joseph has no idea i don't think maybe maybe he has some idea at this point that this meeting is going to take place uh at least to my knowledge at a place he's actually going to set foot out in the middle of missouri i wonder in his mind if he's going i wonder where this meeting is going to take place and the lord's going well funny you should ask about that because we're going to take a long trip right yep i'll tell you later but but it's going to take a while yeah just yeah it's going to be a few years before all of this this pans out and i've noticed that in all of these opening sections carrie as the lord kind of drops little hints here and there yeah of things that are going to come later he's always preparing he's always just getting you ready for the next thing and then ready for the next thing and ready for the next thing right please join us for part two of this podcast you

Channel: Follow Him Podcast

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Length: 54min 40sec (3280 seconds)

Published: Sat Mar 13 2021