First Ladies, the ERA and Beyond

foreign [Music] [Music] welcome to the Dole Institute of politics my name is Braden banglin and I'm a member of the Dole institute's Advisory Board the official student group of The Institute the student Advisory Board is a bipartisan group whose members can access many great opportunities through their involvement with the Institute including volunteering at programs and networking with our special guests if you are a student who would like to join please contact us by emailing Dole Sab ku.edu or speaking with a student worker after the program a video of today's program will be available on our YouTube channel soon you can also access videos of past programs by visiting our YouTube channel at any time a loop hearing system is available to use if you have a t-coil hearing aid we also have a limited number of listening devices if you have questions about the loop system or if at any time during the program you have difficulty hearing please alert one of our staff members after the program we will have some time for the audience to ask questions if you have a question please raise your hand and a student worker with a microphone will come to you please stand if you are able and ask just one brief question if you are a part of our virtual audience you may submit your questions at dualquestions ku.edu [Music] the Dole institute's mission is to Foster civil and respectful discussion around important and often difficult topics please phrase your questions with this in mind before we begin I'd like to remind you to please turn off your cell phones now please join me in welcoming senior assistant a senior associate director Dr Barbara Ballard good evening and welcome to the Dole Institute of politics we're delighted to see you and thank you so much for those of you who have attended all of our series uh this is our fourth one or if this is your first one thank you so very much for coming tonight's program first ladies the era and Beyond and as I said before this is our final our fourth and our final program of our presidential lecture series on First Ladies we want to thank Dr Diana carlone for creating each program and inviting outstanding guest panelists and since she's sitting there let's thank her for doing this please [Applause] before I introduce tonight's guest I would like to invite you to join us on Tuesday March 28th at 7 pm for our 2023 Dole Institute student Advisory Board program and it's titled National Security in the age of surveillance the program will be moderated by our student Advisory Board coordinator Catherine magana she will be joined by two former FBI special agents Tom Crawford and Michael German our program sponsors this evening are the first ladies Association for research and education which is referred to as flare and the KU honors program a book sale and a signing will follow this program this evening's program will be moderated by the double Institute of politics director Audrey Coleman due to a family emergency Dr Myra guten is unable to attend this evening Dr Diner Carlin has graciously agreed to take her place on tonight's panel Dr Colin as many of you know is Professor emerita of communication at St Louis University and a retired professor of communication studies here on our campus at the University of Kansas where she taught a course on women in politics that included first ladies she is a founding member of the first ladies Association for research and education Bob bobstock is a consultant to the Richard Nixon Presidential Library Foundation he curated numerous special exhibits for the Nixon Library including the Pat Dixon Centennial Pat Nixon Centennial exhibit people were her project he has also written about Mrs Nixon's tenure as first lady for the White House historical Association I think you're in for a real treat this evening and if you have attended those before you know you are if you haven't I'm telling you you will be so I will just say to you please join me in welcoming Diana Carlin and Bob Bostock [Applause] Bob and Diana thank you so much for being with us this evening thank you for having us happy to be here yeah we Myra if you're out there and watching if you have a chance to catch us we miss you so much Diana thank you so much for stepping in and concluding our conversation and I have my script for Myra she's going to do her best I'll do my best which will be fantastic so our conversation tonight centers around the era the Equal Rights Amendment and while we drop down right into the beginning of the 1970s Bob would you give us a little bit of a background remind us you know a short primer on the era and the extraordinary circumstances under which it passes first I want to say what an honor it is to be here uh tonight at the Bob Dole Institute which is just what an extraordinary uh institution you have here just great back in 1972 I was 14 years old working phone banks for the Bergen County New Jersey Community re-elect president and Senator Dole came in to do a rally four days before the election and I was at that rally and I got my picture with him and everything else so for me to be able to be at the Bob Dole Institute 51 years later to talk about Mrs Nixon here is just kind of surreal for me it's such an honor so thank you we're so glad to have you but the era interesting story um which is kind of hard to believe the first time an era amendment was proposed in the Congress for the Constitution was in 1923 three years after the passage of the 19th Amendment which gave women the right to vote long overdue it was introduced in every session of Congress from 1923 all the way up until 1972. finally in 1972 it passed the house and the Senate with the required two-thirds majority and was sent to the states with a seven year um period for ratification it's hard to amend our constitution it requires three quarters of the of the states to uh to pass a a resolution of ratification they got 35 out of the 38 they needed uh Congress even extended the deadline to from seven years to ten years I still couldn't get get over the uh over the threshold but one of the reasons I'm glad to be able to talk about Mr Nixon today is because she was the very first first lady who was in The White House to come out in support of the ratification of the era it was really interesting to um she was she she was asked about it at a um at an event a campaign event in September of 1972. and she was asked a whole bunch of questions she was asked questions about Vietnam about abortion about the era and about Martha Mitchell of all people if who if you all remember Martha Mitchell who was uh she was a person by all by herself you know they've made her they broke the mold but uh what was interesting to me is as I was doing some research into this both the Associated Press and the United Press International wire service reporters and their stories that they wrote about this press conference that Mrs Nixon held they didn't include the fact that she had come out in favor of the era the only paper that covered that was the Washington evening star that was the only paper in the country that had the story about her endorsing the era I'm not exactly sure what that says about press coverage of the need for women's rights and and and equal rights under the Constitution but I found that very very curious so of course as uh you know as the efforts went on to to get those last three ratified not they were not able to get it over the goal line um but it was a it was a 50-year struggle I should also mention because I'm a New Jersey guy the author of that Amendment back in 1923 was Alice Paul who was also born and raised in in New Jersey uh one of the one of the people who was so active in making sure that that 19th Amendment got done she's one of the real towering figures in the whole suffrage movement and so in New Jersey we're very proud of Alice Paul I I wrote for the only woman Governor major I was a speechwriter for her and anytime we had anything to do with uh women's issues writing for governor Whitman we always had to had to put in a plug for Alice Paul so so by force of habit I have to put in a plug for Alice fall but uh you know Mrs Nixon as I said the first first lady to endorse the ratification of the era and uh which was something that you know she didn't usually do talk about issues yeah so the the text of the Year era a quality of rights under the law shall not be denied or Abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex and so Pat Nixon was the first first lady to publicly uh to support this but you know going back when it was first introduced Diana this was not something that was popular yeah in fact Eleanor Roosevelt who we've talked about on several occasions in these last three programs and we think of her as being very Progressive and very you know much a feminist she posted because she didn't think that the original wording which was a little different from what eventually passed was really protecting women enough she thought it didn't go far enough and that they needed to make sure there were statutory ways of doing it and so Eleanor opposed the amendment because she thought it would lock in some inadequacies and and there were other first ladies after that obviously who just didn't speak out on the issue because it was coming up all the time and you know as Bob said Pat Nixon was the first and Betty Ford when she became first lady in her very first press conference she made it very clear she was supporting the era so you know Pat paved the way for other first ladies and then Rosalind Carter took it on and so if it really hadn't been for Pat being really very vocal about it you know she made it easier for some of these other women to do it yeah and it was interesting uh before that press conference you had in in September of 72 she had a written message to the delegates to the Republican National Convention which was held in August of 72 and in that message she was talking all about the Nixon administration's initiatives to get more women in government and all those sorts of things but right up front was you know the Republican party has had in its platform since 1940 support for the Equal Rights Amendment so she didn't shy away from it in that in that venue either which was again the first time any first lady has has talked about it so in addition to you know the evolution of of the language of the era what what in these ladies biographies of their personal experience or their character kind of made them ready to to speak out and say yes this is the time sure no no you go go ahead because Pat has a great back story on that you know her her life story is amazing um she was born in a minor Shack in in Nevada and her mother said to her father we got to get out of this business because too many of the guys who were in The Mines with you were dying and I don't want to be left here with three kids so they moved to California had a small farm in a town called Artesia which is now called Cerritos and um you know really hard Scrabble existence her mother died when Pat was only 13. she had two older brothers and her Father Pat took over running the household she would literally do her studies while ironing clothes for her brothers to go to school she her father died when Pat was only 18. she had her two older brothers her brothers and she made a pact that she would work to help them get through school through college and then they would help her get through college her two brothers were great athletes they both got football scholarships to USC Pat Nixon did not get a football scholarship or any other scholarship to USC so she worked she she went out to New York she worked for two two years in New York all sorts of different jobs x-ray technician worked in a Hospital came back she worked even when she was in high school she was a bank she worked in a bank as the bookkeeper she'd come in after the bank was closed and kind of do the books she was there one time when the bank was held up which was you know kind of a scary experience she was a model um in um one of the big department stores out there you know when when the ladies would come in to look for a personal shopper she would try on various dresses so they could see what they looked like on somebody she was even an extra in a couple of movies but her whole life was about hard work hard work hard work and then of course you know she gets out of school she's graduates from USC at a time when only one out of ten women were graduating with a four-year degree and not only a four-year degree but also the equivalent of a master's degree goes to Whittier California teacher in Whittier High School meets at a local theater production this young attorney dick Nixon who tells her the first time he meets her you know you may think I'm nuts but I'm going to marry you someday um she did think he was nuts because she was very popular she had no trouble getting dates he was so important for her that he would drive her to dates with other men yeah so that he could spend time with her as he was driving her to these dates and stuff but then of course you know when World War II starts and and Mr Nixon goes into the service she's left at home like so many women were left back at that time she goes up to San Francisco from Whittier California works in the office of price Administration as an economist is promoted over men in that office and um her salary almost doubles during the time that she was there and one of the things that she reflected on when she talked about why it was so important for this amendment to be passed she says I've worked with men and I competed with men and I succeeded but that's not true for everybody that everybody doesn't have that opportunity and women work just as hard and just as well as men and they need to be protected their advice need to be protected and that comes from her experience uh during the war and then also after when you know Mr Nixon had a hugely like a meteoric rise I mean seven years after he's a lieutenant commander in the South Pacific is the running mate of Dwight D Eisenhower who basically Saves the World right I mean extraordinary he's 39 years old she becomes the wife of the vice president United States two young daughters she's traveling all over the world with the vice president because Eisenhower sent Nixon out to do diplomacy all over the world 53 countries in eight years with two young daughters at home I mean she was like the original working mom and young women today who are dealing with the tension of that you know having having jobs that are rewarding and fulfilling but also trying to raise a family you know that was something she was doing in the 1950s which was really pretty rare and she did it with um enormous energy and commitment uh and I don't know how she did it to both her family her daughters and to the country so she saw how important it was and particularly you know when you go overseas to other countries and they went to a lot of countries because this was kind of the start of the Cold War and there was a lot of competition you know these these developing countries that are going to go with the Soviets they're going to go our way you know she saw how women were treated in other parts of the world that were not so great to say the least I wanted to make sure here in the United States we could be kind of a beacon for these other countries on how women ought to be treated so all of that background together I think came together to um bring her to the point where she wanted to come out as the first lady and say yeah we need this Equal Rights Amendment something nowhere the first lady before heard said yeah Diana how does that compare with Betty Ford Dixon Eddie Ford and Rosalind Carter were the other two first ladies who actively worked on behalf of the era and they had some similar backgrounds Betty Ford was a dancer with Martha Graham Betty Ford started teaching dance classes when she was still in high school so she had worked and she had a professional career and you know when she married Jerry Ford I don't think she really knew what she was getting into they they barely got married and he had a campaign speech to give I mean literally that was their honeymoon was his campaign speeches but she had also seen what was going on so stop and think about those of us who are all enough to remember the early 70s this is the second wave of feminism and women's Liberation is happening in Gloria Steinem in the whole women's lib movement is active and in the early 70s women couldn't have their own credit cards women had no credit of their own you know there were all of these things women couldn't do women would maybe go to a doctor and there'd be a bad diagnosis and they'd tell the husband and not the wife decisions were still being made by men and so Betty had lived through a lot of this plus she's raising four kids well he's climbing the ranks of the house and eventually becoming speaker and then became vice president so she was really a woman who had had a career and she understood the need for Independence and she was a very much a supporter of women being able to make their own choices and like she said she chose to give up her career but women should be able to do what they wanted to do and the government should not stand in their way and so she really saw the Equal Rights Amendment as being very important to that and Rosalind Carter had been a complete partner with Jimmy Carter in their Peanut Farm you know she was actively a partner everything they had ever done was a partnership and she was also a woman same thing was taking care of children when husband was in the military so she had seen the need for that so those three women of That World War II generation who had seen the changes coming from you know their mother's generation to their own and then where they wanted their daughters to be and I think that's another important thing Pat Nixon had two daughters uh Betty Ford had one daughter and Rosalind Carter had a daughter and they were really looking toward the future with their daughters and that became very very important to them so are there positions on and we talked about how the Republican party and both of Nixon and Ford being Republican presidents were they were their philosophies generally in sync with their with their husbands or did they was there indication that they or there was some friction maybe within the household or that they were influencing their husbands as president during yeah no I you know President Nixon was I founded a letter in the archives from that he wrote in 1960 when he was running for president against then Senator Kennedy a whole letter that he signed endorsing the era so he was a very early supporter of the era never it you know it never Rose to the issue to the level of like a top issue um because you know you're trying to win elections and you're looking at you know what should I be talking about what maybe doesn't get me as far you know get me as many votes so that calculation always comes into it obviously but no he was a supporter of it as I said earlier it was in the Republican platform as early as 1940 and he started running on the den National Republican platform in 1952 1956 1960 was part of the platform that whole time and as I said there was a letter that he wrote specifically endorsing the Equal Rights Amendment in 1960. and Betty Ford kind of felt like she had to pull Gerald Ford along and in 1975 it was the international year of the women and there was this resolution or an executive order or something that he signed and she was right there when he did it and when he finished he said Betty is there anything you want to say and basically what she said was I'm really happy to see that you have come a long long way on women's issues and you know she she had pushback it was fascinating what happened with Betty Ford because some of his staff Rumsfeld Cheney some of the others they basically went to Ford and said you need to get your wife to calm this down because she was making phone calls to state legislators there were pickets across the street while she was doing this saying Betty get off the phone and she had to install a private line that she paid for herself to make the calls into state legislators to try to convince them to vote for the era and so these staffers came to the president and said you know you need to do something about her you need to tell her to kind of cool it and he said the first ladies you know working in her office down the hall you want to go talk to her that's the end of it I think it's so interesting that Mrs Ford was making those calls because we found in the archives out of the Nixon library and Armstrong who had the worked in the west wing for for President Nixon as her title was counselor to the president uh she had received a letter from one of the women's groups I think it was the national women's political caucus asking if if the White House could get more involved in lobbying State legislatures and legislators and so she sent the um a memo to Fred Fielding who was the council to the president at that time asking you know what can we do and um his memo back is basically well if somebody asks you about it you could say that the president supports it but you certainly can't start making any phone calls urging legislators to uh to to help ratify this thing the The West Wing I think in both administrations was much more leery of this whole issue than the first ladies were and the other women in the administration um Nixon made a real effort to bring women into the government he appointed someone a woman named Barbara Franklin who went on to a highly successful career served in two presidential candidates uh cabinets rather uh to have to have the job of recruiting women into the White House and of course Elizabeth Hanford later Elizabeth Hanford Dole worked in the Nixon White House was one of those women who came into the federal government as a result of the Nixon administration's efforts to bring more women into positions of responsibility where they would have a chance to rise to senior positions and that was you know that's a lot of that is because of Pat Nixon um she was not one uh who would go out and talk about policy issues very much or at all really um she had spent a long time with her you know 1952 all the way to the time she became first lady when uh the wives of candidates were not expected to have opinions right and she was a national figure starting in 1952. so she was she was more reticent I think than probably she would have liked to have been but um you can't get out too far ahead of people um so she found ways to do it to send signals I think that you know we need to do more for women she brought for instance um at the White House they have these military social aides who are um unmarried and up until then it had been men officers in the military who come to Big State functions to help move people around and you know if they see someone who's off in the corner not having a good time they'll go talking Mrs Nixon brought female officers female Military Officers into military social aids for the first time you know kind of a big deal she was the first first lady to wear pants in public which now seems kind of absurd right but you know but this was a big deal she did a fashion spread in Ladies Home Journal and one of the things she was photographed in was a pantsuit and that made headlines I'm sure that issue of Ladies Home Journal probably outsold every other one um but it made headlines oh my god did you see that picture of Pat Nixon in pants you know it was it was a very big deal but all of those kind of subtle things and which to us now seem like really small things at that time if you can put yourself back into that era were a big deal and um she was doing it in her own way but in a very effective way well you mentioned we were chatting earlier about the her advocacy for a woman on the Supreme Court too that whole thing oh yes yeah yeah tell us about that that was the one time when she um really broke out of the usual her usual approach and made very public that she wanted the president to appoint a woman to the Supreme Court for the first time there were two vacancies that come up um Hugo Black and uh and Justice Harland had both resigned there were two vacancies and Mrs Nixon was out there saying you know we need a woman on the Supreme Court and people would ask her about it she'd say don't worry I'm talking it up and uh you know she made a lot of statements about the need to put a woman on she said it would bring a much needed balance to the court um and they developed a list of names and she gave names to the president of people she wanted to be considered because he had appointed some women judges to uh you know fairly good uh uh judgeships and she gave him those names and other names and I understand even Sandra Day O'Connor's name was among the names that they listed that they had on their list and they it came down there was a California judge named Mildred Lily who seemed to be the one who would really you know be a great first female on the Supreme Court well the American Bar Association which back then they still do it but it's not as influential as it was they have a committee that looks at potential Supreme Court Justices their Committee of 12 voted uh 11 to 1 that she was unqualified and when the Nixon Congressional Affairs office talked to Folks up in the Senate the report came back she'd never be confirmed because you know presidents can nominate justices they can't appoint them without that as we've all seen right so there's Senate confirmation hearings have gotten yeah whatever but so in the end he was not able to appoint a woman because it it wouldn't work so the night he announces his of his appointees to the two um to the tour open seats one of them was rehnquist who later became chief justice and Lewis Powell they're having dinner and Julie Eisenhower writes this in her biography Mrs Nixon they're having dinner that night upstairs in the family quarters of the White House and Mrs Nixon who was who usually did not bring up politics with her husband when he got home right because her thinking was you know he's got people telling him all day what they want him to do when he comes home he ought to be able to kind of relax well she brought it up at dinner and made a full court press about how disappointed she was that they were unable to nominate a woman to the Supreme Court to the point where Julie says in her book the president kind of a little weary of this finally says their path we did the best we could and that kind of ended the conversation there but she was very very passionate about that in a way that was unusual for her but I think reflects how strongly she felt that this would be an opportunity not just to bring balance to the court but what a tremendous um achievement it would have been for women everywhere to see a woman elevated to a court that for the previous you know almost 200 years have been strictly men yeah and Betty Ford picked up on that yeah because when Gerald Ford had an appointment he ended up appointing John Paul Stevens but Betty picked up where Pat had left off and lobbied her husband for a woman on the court and really you know pushed hard once again getting some attention for that and it didn't happen there either and she was pretty public about being disappointed I think one of the things Betty Ford did too and with Pat Nixon finally beginning to speak out a little bit on some of these issues Betty Ford had not gone through the background that a Pat Nixon or some of these other women had you know he had been a member of Congress and wives of members of Congress don't they aren't that visible you know she was back there family living in Washington raising the family and wasn't out doing the kinds of things that Pat Nixon and some of these other women had done and so when she finally had a platform she took advantage of it and in 1975 she gave a speech at this International women's year and she basically said that I don't believe that a husband's position should in any way limit what a woman can say or do in public and so she took a huge step forward for first ladies once again giving them a little more freedom to be a little more political which Rosalind Carter definitely was because she took on health care and she testified in front of a committee she was a other than Eleanor Roosevelt know the first lady had ever done that and she couldn't be the official head of a commission because of her position as an unelected official but she was the honorary and she ran hearings all over the country on Mental Health legislation that eventually was passed but I think once again Pat helped open the door for Betty to do some of that and she was pushing for women the same way so so there were there were a lot of I think important things that both of those women did that were not just on the era but also were really looking at this whole era of second wave of feminism that was going on and the need for society to move forward and that first ladies needed to take some of those moves and we've talked about that they tend to mirror what's going on but they also move things forward and in many ways they both did because they were also outspoken a lot of these other women and we've talked about some over the last three sessions we're doing a lot behind the scenes they would have their list but they certainly weren't public about giving names to their husbands or trying to get people appointed but these two women felt comfortable enough you know doing that type of thing and Roseland he'd asked earlier about their agreement with their husbands well there's a great story she dedicated uh probably a half a dozen pages to the era and women's rights in her Memoir first lady from Plains and she had a funny story about when he was governor because that was when the vote was first coming up in Georgia when he was still governor and Gloria Steinem was going to come to Atlanta to lead the big rally for the Pro Era vote and Georgia she said was a little behind the times and she was worried and Gloria Steinem was kind of a lightning rod during the early 70s with women's Liberation and she just thought she was a little too far out for for Georgia so Rosalind writes about the fact that she was telling Jimmy and he was only half paying attention to her apparently that you know this is not the right messenger and and this is going to only anger people and we're gonna and it's not going to pass if if you have Gloria Steinem out there and so we've got to figure out some other strategy and so we we can't have this happening this rally you know it could be backfire so he goes to a meeting the next day in his office and there are all these anti-pro era folks out there and he calls them in to try to listen to them and he announced that he was Pro Era he said but Roseland isn't she then found out about it at a dinner that night she goes he said what I am Pro Era and so she then began wearing a button everywhere and said Jimmy was just not listening to me so not even presidents listen to their wives necessarily and so she wrote about this but then she also said and I think this is probably his Penance that she didn't say it that way that's my interpretation in her book that Jimmy was also making phone calls to legislators with her so she picked up from Betty Ford phone line making calls to legislators and she makes a really interesting point in her book The failure you know we know that the amendment 19th Amendment passed by one vote in Tennessee they were the 30 they were we have 30 wouldn't have been 35 back then yeah we didn't have 50 states yet but anyway whatever the vote was one vote and it was a young man who originally was not going to vote for it and his mother sent him a note right before the vote he read it changed his vote he had to run out and hide in his office from the anti 19th Amendment folks so one vote got us the 19th Amendment and Rosalind talks about the fact that over the last three states it could have passed it before it all failed 13 votes one in one state two in another I think five and one and one five and anyway it came out to where 13 votes spread across three states made the difference in the era but she said you know she went through her file she had speeches and she you know was making phone calls and doing everything she could which was once again pretty out there as Betty had started doing yeah I think Diana Mary's a really interesting point that I think only applies to first ladies is that you know they'll they have opinions obviously and as you look at the whole scope of first ladies over history these are remarkable women of achievement and and uh accomplishment and just smarts and everything I mean really really impressive and they don't get the credit they deserve but unlike any other woman in the country one of the things they have to calculate before they talk is how is this going to affect my husband's presidency um nobody else has that burden right Gloria Steinem didn't have to worry about how when and I don't mean this is a criticism of Ms Steinem I almost called her miss it but she started Ms magazine got to be careful but um you know they don't have to they don't have that same concern that a first lady has knowing that no matter what they say it's going to be a story and it's going to be controversial because nobody agrees 100 on any issue and they have to think how is this going to affect my husband's presidency and that's a burden um on women I think and on their ability to speak out on things that they really care about so Mrs Nixon's steps in that direction you know look in retrospect they may not look as bold as one would have expected them to look but they were in their own way very very courageous because as Diana said it opened the door that Betty Ford was able to then walk through and Rosalind Carter and really every first lady since um and and that was uh you know it Neil Armstrong right one small step for a man one's running for mankind those small steps sometimes just make a huge difference as as time goes on well and Betty did it in the face of great opposition you know other things Myra pointed out in the note she sent me because Myra's working on a biography of Betty Ford and she had a chance to interview her uh and was that the the male was like eight to one or something against the era and like I said there were protesters out there and the reason that the staffers went to the president was that it's 1975 and he's got an election in 1976 and they were afraid that her advocacy of the era was going to hurt his re-election and very similar to when we talked about suffrage a couple weeks ago that these women could not come out and say a whole lot because you had the temperance issue going on you had the union issue tied with it and their husbands weren't in favor of that the party wasn't and so they had to be quiet but Betty didn't care you know she just felt like this was the right thing to do and Pat did too and Rosalind yeah it's such an extraordinary situation because actually we think more about political advocacy and trying to get legislation passed but the era legislation actually passed really readily in both the house and the Senate that 354 to 24 in the house 84 to eight so you know actually the political climate was so different from Pat Nixon and then National support as through that ratification process state to state by the end of the 1970s public opinion had changed significantly well when it got to the 35 States really relatively recognized um you know talk about a boom right I mean this was this was moving Full Speed Ahead uh and as it was getting closer than the people who were against it and some women actually who were against it you know organized very effective political campaigns where they were focusing like a laser beam on the states where they thought they had a chance to defeat the resolution for ratification and uh you know again if it come within three states kind of amazing and and quickly you know as as you said the huge majorities in both houses of the Congress you need two-thirds vote in the Congress to send something out to the states it well surpassed that but then you need three quarters of the states and to come three short just kind of amazing after these first ladies left the White House after after their their husband's presidency did they stay active in politics did they continue to push for the era or did they have other causes or how did they spend their last part of their life um Mrs Nixon when they left the White House under um I would say less than ideal circumstances she was kind of done at that point um she they went home to California to San Clemente she had a very bad stroke in 1976 that took her a long time to recover from then she started to have grandchildren and she wanted to spend the rest of her time having spent you know the better part of 30 years in the arena with her husband being a mom being a grandmother being a wife um so she stay I think she gave one speech after she left the White House and you know she spent she lived almost 20 years after they left the white house so she felt she had paid her dues and she had um so she was kind of like okay that part of my life is over her one of her favorites saying was onward and upward and in her case onward and upward did not mean onward and upward to doing more politics well but Betty and Rosalind were totally different uh Betty Ford in 1977 after her husband left the White House went to Houston because there was another International year of the women going on and Rosalind Carter was overseeing that what was it really interesting in politics strange bedfellows Rosal Carter and Betty Ford became very good friends and did a lot together and Lady Bird Johnson joined them and interestingly the one of the people who persuaded Betty that she needed to make phone calls was Liz Carpenter who had been Lady Bird Johnson's press secretary and chief of staff so there there's a lot more of this bipartisan this is a small group of women who've had this position and they stick together and so in 77 these three women are all there promoting women's rights at this International Conference in Houston and there is a picture of three of them together so you've got the succession and the bipartisanship so Betty Ford continued to speak out but I think the other thing that she did for women and we talked we called this era and Beyond the Beyond part was what she did in terms of women's health which Nancy Reagan also picked up on Betty Ford within a month or so a couple months of him becoming president was diagnosed with breast cancer this was a period when you did not say the word breast or cancer in the news you did not talk about it you did not tell people if you had it it was one of these forbidden topics and you certainly didn't go public with it if you were a first lady but she decided to because she realized she had the best health care in the world as the first lady they diagnosed it early enough because she had great doctors and they were able to deal with it and so she decided to go public and to start making speeches and to make take this literally out of the shadows and save women's lives and so she promoted mammograms she promoted you know breast self-examinations talked about it she won awards from the Coleman Foundation American Cancer Society and she continued to do that after office and then Nancy Reagan went through the same thing and she was highly criticized for deciding to get a mastectomy because at that point they weren't doing anything as radical as they'd done what Betty Ford was there and so she you know took everybody on and said look I have these obligations and I don't have time to go through chemo I have things I have to do and this was my decision and women should be able to make some of the these Health decisions shouldn't just have a lot of male doctors criticism that's what was happening with her so so there were some steps forward for women in terms of health care awareness and the whole public view of what you talked about as a first lady or what you talked about in public in general that came with health care and then she did the same thing with her addiction problem she had had a pinched nerve for years and was on painkillers and you know did remarkable things given her her pain situation and then alcohol and drugs and her family finally had an intervention with her and she once again went public and so you had the Betty Ford Center year a lot of people who have been gone to the Betty Ford Center for their addiction problems and what that Center has done has been remarkable and once again helping a lot of people and both she and Nancy Reagan talked about the number of letters they got from women saying you saved my life I would not have done this I would not have gotten a mammogram I would have not gone to the doctor if I suspected something but you kind of opened the door for that so you know that's another women's health issue that they they really had big influence on well another way that um some first ladies Barbara Bush and going forward you know more recent in time they also have engaged in international advocacy yes Diana could you talk a little bit about that and then I want to talk a little bit more about Pat Nixon under International experience yeah yeah Rosalind Carter too I should mention mental health you know she has not given up on that she has her own Foundation that is promoting mental health advocacy and mental health issues and reform so so those three very political but after that Nancy Reagan was really more in the international Arena so he didn't hear as much from her on that we all we could do a whole program on Nancy which she's fascinating but you know from Barbara Bush on Barbara Bush's issue was literacy and she considered education a civil right and she believed that a lot of the women who were single parents and struggling if they had had better access to education if their if literacy were were promoted more in education that you know things would be a little bit better but she also was one of these who uh didn't agree with her husband she writes a lot in her to in her Memoir and and there was a lot written about her on choice because originally back in the Nixon era the Republican party was pro-choice yes they were yeah I mean a lot of people don't realize that and it was shifting then by the time you got to George Bush and Barbara had to keep quiet this was a step backwards in some way but she was very Adept at how she answered those questions and kind of didn't say anything specifically but he had a pretty good idea but her daughter-in-law Laura Bush is one who kind of picked up where Hillary Clinton had left off Hillary you know went through the health care debacle and and was in big trouble and they lost a lot of seats in 74 and a lot of people blamed her for you know the negative politics and negative press so she went to Beijing in 1975 for an international U.N Women's Conference and gave a speech that is one of the top 100 of the 20th century and she talked about women's rights or human rights and human rights or women's rights and that really set her on a path for looking at what was happening to women and girls internationally which then Laura Bush picked up after 9 11. Laura gave the first ever radio address by a first lady for the president president as a Saturday radio addresses she was the first first lady and the only one who's ever done that and she talked about why we needed to free these women from the Taliban and talked about what was going on with women and girls and then she went to Afghanistan those of you who had heard Anita McBride when she was here the first night I need to arrange that to happen and so she was doing all these programs for girls and she's still doing a lot of that Hillary as Secretary of State started this whole division at State doing projects for women she carried her work on and then Michelle Obama you know same thing let girls learn and now she's teamed up with them all Clooney and Melinda French Gates and they're doing all this work on girls and girls education so it's it's really been interesting to see how that wave has sort of swept through especially kind of on the international level and and Pat Nixon was the ground groundbreaking in her participation on the international stage oh absolutely um you know when when Mr Erickson became vice president and uh President Eisenhower sent The Nixons all over the world and on their first big trip which was in the first year of of uh Eisenhower's first term 1953 they have The Nixons have a vacation plan for like in the fall but President Eisenhower says to the vice president goes I want you to go to Asia and um you know talk to these countries that again in the Cold War context you know they're not sure whose side they're going to be on he goes and I want you to bring Pat um because he said later on at a campaign rally in 1956 where they were all together he said in introducing the vice president he says he says you know dick you're controversial but everybody loves Pat and and that was very true but when they traveled to these I think 14 countries over almost 60 days in this first trip away from their two very young daughters she had a schedule that was completely different from what you know second ladies had never done this but from what first ladies ever did when they traveled she did not have a bunch of tea with you know have the the tea party with it she went out to orphanages to hospitals to markets where women were working um because she wanted to meet people there and she became known pretty rapidly as America's ambassador of Goodwill because she didn't spend her time she was on this long trip to all those countries she had three evening gowns with her for the formal dinners because that was not going to be her focus and of course they went from country to Country so she didn't have to repeat in any one country but um you know that was not her Focus she wasn't there to have tea with you know the wife of the Prime Minister or whatever she wanted to see what was going out in these countries out in the world see what women were doing and some of the stories about the uh kind of some of the challenges of that travel this was before they were they weren't traveling by Jets they were traveling by propeller driven planes um with a very small group you know Nixon had his secretary and his aide and like two secret service people as they're traveling all over Mrs Nixon had nobody with her except she and the president or the vice president's secretary Rosemary Woods who of course stayed with him all the time the two of them were thick as thieves you know on those trips helping each other out but really advancing diplomacy in a way that uh not only no second lady had ever done but in a way that no first lady had ever done before in history so she had an amazing apprenticeship if you will for when she became a first lady and in fact as first lady she became the very first lady in history to be an official representative of the president United States at official events overseas she went to Africa for the swearing-in of President Tolbert and she was the official representative of the president United States she went to South America with that same designation which is you know she wasn't there as the first lady she was there as His official representative and you know she addressed uh parliament in a couple of these countries amazing she was also so she had this um experience and ability to connect with people in a way because she genuinely cared about people and it was amazing that she went to Peru after they had a terrible earthquake and she wanted to bring supplies down there to help them and uh she goes to Peru and and uh she wanted to go to where the damage was done and meet with the people there and it was in this mountainous area and she's on a helicopter where she's literally sitting in a kitchen chair that had been put in the helicopter she said it's the only time she was ever at all concerned about flying anywhere but she gets there with the first lady of Peru and Mrs Nixon starts climbing over the rubble and hugging children and hugging women and everything else and I talked when I was doing Mrs Nixon's Centennial exhibit back in 2012. I talked with her staff director a woman named Connie Stewart who basically told me because she was on this trip with her she said Mrs Nixon taught the first lady of Peru how to be a first lady because when she's climbing over Rubble in her high heels and skirt okay and and you can see in some of the photographs the first lady were kind of hanging back but eventually she got the message you know if this American woman's coming down here and talking to our people I probably ought to do that too so um she really she taught she taught them taught people how to do that I taught the first lady of Peru anyway so she was an incredibly effective Ambassador for the United States on her own with those missions overseas to Africa and uh and to South America really making friends for the United States in parts of the world that were had not yet kind of decided during that early Cold War period you know who were they going to go with the Soviet side or the American side well and when she went to China China yeah this was incredible because you know China was an amazing breakthrough and the Press did not cover any of the meetings with the president and the Chinese so here are all these reporters and they didn't do something so they followed her so everything we saw in the news reports was through Pat Nixon's eyes and she once again carefully chose her itinerary of where she was going to go and Pat Nixon is the one who introduced the United States to China yeah one of my favorite stories about that is um she was at a big state banquet and she's sitting next to Joanne Lai who is the premiere and they have these canisters of cigarettes on the table that had pandas on them so and she had been earlier on the visit to the uh P King as they called it back then zouin had seen some pandas so she points to the panda oh I love those pandas and he said cigarettes and she's like no panda bears so um so he said well we're going to send you a song so the first the first two pandas in the at the National Zoo uh arrived in uh 1972 and it's because you know her deafness with diplomacy and stuff looking at that little canister of cigarettes that had a picture of a panda on it and using that as an opportunity to ask the premiere of to basically ask the premiere of China can you send us some pandas the Chinese wanted some uh animals back they asked for musk oxy I'll never quite figure that one out I think we definitely this is one of those times we should remember now that we really got better of China oh my goodness well I have one more question for you before we turn it over to the audience this has been such a wonderful discussion but I want to ask each of you you know you've told so many wonderful stories and new things about the first ladies that we haven't known what what what is your one anecdote or one story that you want to make sure that we don't leave here without knowing maybe about about Pat Nixon or Betty Ford Diana you've got a hard job because you've got all the first things I'll let Bob go first that's something that you haven't gotten to tell us about I think the thing that I want you know Mrs Nixon some reporter at some point called her plastic Pat because of when she was out of you know particularly campaigning with the president he gave the speeches she was there because people love to see her but you know plastic Pat but everybody who knows her and worked with her um the first thing they tell you about her is how much fun she had what a great sense of humor she had how she was completely informal you know she she'd sit on the floor when meeting with her staff uh you know their pictures of of her you know somebody came in to talk about yoga and she's on a yoga mat in the Diplomatic reception room of the White House you know down on the floor learning about yoga I mean she was she was a fun a person with a great sense of humor uh who really who never took herself seriously she was once asked you know how do you want history to remember you and she said I want history to remember me as the wife of a president um she her view was that she wanted her work to speak for itself people don't know that she acquired more than 600 pieces of art Furniture historic items for the White House Collection more than any first lady before since I remember when we were doing the Centennial exhibit a couple of us went to the White House to talk to the curator to see if we could borrow a couple of the pieces that she had acquired for the White House and I remember saying to this curator Bill Allman I and we're making this pitch because the White House doesn't send their furniture out very much I said oh I'm sure you've got some stuff in the warehouse you know that you could set us he said no every single piece that she had is in the Mansion because it was all that good and and nobody really knows that either so there's there's and let me make a pitch Heath hardisley is writing a biography of Mrs Nixon that will be coming out next year um incredibly researched uh it's going to be a fabulous book and it tells so much of Mrs Nixon's story and her Legacy is kind of underappreciated and I think when Heath's book come out and you know it's Julie wrote a great book Julie Eisenhower wrote a great book but that came out in the mid of the mid 80s rather so this is you know this is going to be a very comprehensive book on Mrs Nixon so when that comes out if you want to learn more about Pat Nixon get Keith's book it's going to be it's going to be fabulous thank you and our our audiences would remember Heath for as the curator of the league of wives exhibit that we debuted here in 2017 about the pow Mia wives during Vietnam so we'll be excited to get Heath back Diana what a great run yeah there are so many but let me stick with one related to the era and Rosalind Carter one of the things she wrote about in her book was all of this work she said one of her biggest regrets was that they did not get the era over the line and she was giving this Litany of things she had done and she said I even went so far as to allow myself to be auctioned off and they were at an era fundraiser and they were are going to they they wanted to auction a dance with her off and they had to huddle as you can well imagine about whether you really should be auctioning off a first lady even if it's for a dance so they so she turned to to President Carter and she said well what do you think should we do it he goes well it's better than being a Wallflower so she just took it and ran she was auctioned off and danced with the person who wanted to raise money for the era thank you Diana that's a great story All Right audience your turn I know they've got some questions out there if you want to raise your hand and a student with a microphone will come to you all right well let's see we've got someone here in the pink sweater hi um if one of you can speak to the evolution of the era if that's too broad just like what's the difference between when it started and when it ended and then just to appease my own ignorance which states did not pass it thanks though see I um I have the language of the original here I believe no I have the 72 I don't have the Alice Paul version what's interesting though is it it didn't really change that much no no you know here or there it was you know a word as as you just said a word here or there yeah it pretty much stayed the same and one of the beauties of it was the Simplicity of it um when Diana read that out earlier you know I mean what was it a sentence yeah it's a sentence and then and then the rest of it is just you know kind of how you implement it when you go from kind of the nuts and bolts of it but a very powerful sentence well the three yeah the three states that had the 13 votes across them were Florida North Carolina and Nevada so those were three that did not vote for it and I'm not sure what the other ones were I know Illinois was tough because uh Betty spent a lot of time calling into there I think the Dakotas North Dakota maybe and I don't know how they ended up going but those were definitely three that could have put it over and they were really close Kansas was one of the early yeah we did that one very quickly yeah right um I think we had a question up here in the front section raise your hand again I saw you oh that was me I was curious about where Kansas fell oh yeah yeah we were one of the first but then you know you look at our history and it makes sense we gave women the right to vote in School Board elections in 1861. we elected the first woman mayor city council members in 1887 and we've had three women Governors and women in the Senate and House and so we've been very Progressive you're way ahead of New Jersey where I'm from we've only had we've only had one woman governor and I was very proud to be able to work for her other questions here in the front thank you my question covers all four of the presentations and it's a question I asked you last time which is Will Flair or any organization work towards getting the First Lady paid for her position because it's it's obvious that that person he or she surely does a lot for our country and does it gratis so is there any possibility of that ever happening Pat Nixon called the job of first lady the hardest unpaid job in the world and she was right on about that you get a pretty nice house to go with it but yeah I I don't think that's anything anybody's probably going to take people are shocked I've had that question asked in fact Audrey and I were on Clint East Hills uh program on Monday and clinice asked too our first ladies paid and my students were like shocked when I've talked about it never has been I mean part of the thing is they're not an official part of the government they don't have a constitutional position or a statutory position or an appointed position so they really are just the spouse and you can't really pay a spouse so I you know from from a technical perspective but I don't think that any of these women would say that they wanted to be paid I think they view this as a public service it's a great volunteer job and that you know they have opportunities like you were saying just live in the White House that no other woman has they have a platform that no other woman has they can do things to change society in ways that many of them have with the issues they take on and and I think they're all just kind of selfless enough that I don't think they would would consider that plus if they were I think we'd have a very different view of them and they would then be subject to some things that they aren't now because they are not paid it'll be interesting to see if if and when we have a first gentleman if the if he starts getting paid well he'll probably be like Dr Biden and have a job yeah because Doug em off does and I I think that's what will happen yeah there was another question I think up front oh okay yeah no I I think when we have a first gentleman it's very likely that that person will continue to have a job it's going to have to be careful because you know Mr emhoff had to quit his Law Firm because of conflicts of interest and he's now at Georgetown teaching and Dr Biden is paid out of private funds out of foundation money and not out of state money because once again States take Federal money and and so she had to go through a lot of legal maneuvering to be able to do that so so there are just some real complexities with it thank you okay another question here um which first lady started the president of there's like an expectation if you're the first lady you're going to take on an an issue and focus on that uh while your first lady how did that get started well actually Martha but it wasn't a formal type of thing because once again you didn't have media covering all this but Martha really looked out for veterans and for women especially widows did a lot out of her own pocket to help support them but we've had a lot of women Mary Lincoln was one who went out and took care of soldiers wrote letters for them tended to them Caroline Harrison uh Benjamin Harrison's wife is an interesting one she she was one who who believed in some women's rights and if you were the session two weeks ago uh Johns Hopkins you know she women's education was very important to her and so she told Hopkins they wanted her to help them raise money that she'd only do it if they'd let women into their medical school and they did and she helped raise money um Woodrow Wilson's first wife Ellen Wilson she was only first lady for a little over a year before she died she'd had some health issues but she took on an issue and got a lot of public attention for it there were these what they call they called it the alley Bill a-l-l-e-y there were these Alleyways in Washington that were just real slums and they were African-Americans and immigrants were living there the living conditions were horrible and she brought members of Congress and the press to see it and she was determined that they were going to find new housing and do something about the alleys and on her death bed they passed the alley Bill and did it as a tribute to her and she also put her own money into a company that was going to build the new housing so she had a cause ladybird of course said the environment I think where it really started was probably Jackie Kennedy with the white house renovation because that was very public then Lady Bird had her environmental issues and since then it's just become kind of an expectation but they've all had things they did several the others you know were doing a lot of charity work Dolly Madison did some Abigail but it was on a very different level and it wasn't as public Mrs Nixon um kind of faced the question shortly after she became first lady what's your project going to be and her response was people are my project and that was really frustrating to the reporters who covered first ladies because it seemed so amorphous and then she talked about volunteerism so she did a lot of traveling around the country meeting with Community volunteer groups to bring attention to them so that they could get more support from within their community and that sort of thing but she was very deliberate about not wanting to pick one particular project she felt from her standpoint that was too limiting she wanted to be able to have the freedom to go and do different things that she was thought were important and where she could make a positive difference so it it frustrated the heck out of the reporters who covered the first lady and it also frustrated the heck out of the guys in the West Wing who were like why can't she come up with a project and make our life so much easier but you know that was not Pat Nixon I mean she she wanted to do what she wanted to do and she did not want to get locked into one single thing did you want to ask something oh the question is what did Mrs Trump do uh she had her be best campaign and anti-bullying which people thought was ironic but you know she she did have some children's issues and she gave a lot more speeches and did a lot more on that than you would have expected during the pandemic she was posting activities through her Twitter account for kids to do while they were stuck at home she didn't get media attention for some of the things that she did do she even made PSAs saying you should wear a face mask and had one on you know press didn't report much about that and it sort of gets at a question that we've had in the past about you know like Florence Harding you know the program we did on first ladies powerful first ladies you don't know a whole lot about some of the time when their husbands were problematic like all the scandals in the Harding Administration I think the wives get buried under that Scandal and I think some of that happened to Pat Nixon and I think some of that was the same with Melania I think with Mrs Nixon particularly you know when when you're the first lady for a very controversial president and as Dwight Eisenhower said 1956 you know dick you're controversial everybody loves Pat um there is a tendency I think on some of the president's political opponents to uh kind of go after the wife a little bit too to kind of diminish the whole family thing it's really unfair but it's you know it comes with the territory um so I think that Mrs Nixon uh she didn't seek a lot of press she she really did want her work to speak for itself but I think that she um paid a price for the fact that her husband was as controversial as he was although you know I always like to point out that you know he was elected in 1968 by a very very narrow margin he's reelected in 1972 carrying 49 states and getting 61 percent of the vote one of the largest landslides in American history of course things went downhill from there but um she was on The Good Housekeeping I don't know if they still do it would take a poll of most admired women in America she was on more than 20 times including for years after she left public life because people saw her as somebody who was real who would connect with people who worked really hard at what she did and wasn't looking for a lot of credit somebody that they could identify somebody who took on you know that that working mother sort of job and in a very very uh intense environment and carried it off very very well so there were some in the media who were you know plastic patters she's too perfect or how could she do this that and the other thing you know she can't possibly you know sew her daughter's dresses you know but she did but once you get outside of the Beltway so to speak um you know people saw that and as I said more than 20 times voted one of the most admired women in the country and Gallup did a poll for most of my women in the world and she was on that more than I think more than 10 times and maybe a dozen or 15 times we have one more question back here and I think we have time for one more after this gentleman hi thank you both for coming to the Dole Institute tonight my question is regarding something you both mentioned in passing that a few woman's LED groups were laser focused on hindering the development and the passing of the era I was wondering if you could elaborate on what some of the prevailing issues were and fears that the era posed particular to these women's groups that were so opposed to the passing of the era uh it was in some ways it was similar to the women who opposed suffrage um Phyllis Schlafly was really a Conservative Republican lawyer who led the charge and Braden I will send you an article to read that that gets into Oliver I I taught a course on cases in Persuasion when I was at KU and I used this one article that was called stop era and it talked about the very measured approach that Phyllis Schlafly took and and what they did was they turned the era on its head and they said if we have equality we lose things and we're no longer going to have separate restrooms we have to be equal we're going to get drafted just like men and so it was really a fear technique you know you're going to lose if you have the sequel right because we have some things that are protecting us and those were exactly the same kinds of arguments that were used against suffrage that women you know don't have to get into the middle of all this ugly politics and so that was part of what Schlafly did was she tried to convince people women that they would actually be disadvantaged because there would be no protections for them I always thought it was very funny that one of her most effective arguments was about the draft because President Nixon ended the drink in 1973 so there was no Draft when she was making those arguments but uh you know she would she would say things like you know if we get into another War they'll have to reinstitute the draft and do you really want your daughters on the front lines you know and and battles and things like that you know which resonated with people now of course you know the women are serving with great distinction in uh all all of the uh all of the services in the armed forces right we have our last question up here Angela uh this is fascinating and I just want to thank this young man for mentioning Phyllis shafley because that was my comment while Kansas was early to pass the era there were many right here in Douglas County that were Phyllis shafley followers and many of us in League of Women Voters that went to the legislature to do a silent vigil and we stood around the Rotunda and we wore our new pants suits and we wore our clogs and we wore wool socks with them instead of nylons and um the group representing shafly came it was in January and bitter cold and they came in their little pink summer frocks because that was their deal to wear pink and they um just got right in our faces and of course League was standing there not saying a word because we were a silent protest but it was really alarming how they gave up their rights so that they could fight the era because their stand was we're women we shouldn't be doing this so I just wondered if you would comment more about Phyllis schafley and thank you for saying that because she was so influential I would just say Mrs Nixon would have been so proud that you all were wearing your pantsuits had that silent demonstration so yeah good for you well there is a lot that could be said about Phyllis Schlafly but I'll I'll send you this article too that really goes into the depth of it I'll make sure I get your email address because it outlines all of her strategies but it was basically a fear campaign that you're going to lose more than you're going to gain and that was essentially the argument well that was the interesting thing said she didn't clearly didn't mind going to law school that was the interesting thing about it is this woman was a lawyer she had a career uh but you know she she's being totally the opposite of what she's talking about and um yeah I think I I sense a another a program idea yeah yeah fantastic thank you audience thank you for your wonderful questions as always thank you Diana and Bob so much for being with us Diana thank you for organizing the series and for giving me the honor of of moderating our last discussion it's been out and thank you for the idea you know we we were thrilled when you asked about doing this because this and part of the reason Flair was created and I do have some flyers about Flair back there but we created it because Steve's stories need to be told these women have affected the presidency presidential history American history and the stories need to be told and I really am so pleased that you saw that Audrey and and asked us to put this together so thank you and they're great stories too they're inspiring yeah great stories about women who had a lot of the odds stacked against him and overcame that through not only their commitment to their own education but really their own strong will that you know they were not just going to kind of sit by and watch the world go by they were going to make a difference in a in a time for the vast majority of them when it was very difficult for women to do that great stories and I'm so glad that Diana and her group are taking this on because it's so important and it's such an important part of the history of this country that has not been covered anywhere near enough so kudos to you all thank you thank you thank you so much let's give them a round of applause we look forward to seeing you all uh on Tuesday the 28th here at seven o'clock for our student Advisory Board program run by Catherine magana on National surveillance and security and uh watch for some announcements for some programs coming up on April 12th and April 19th we're going to be partnering with the millennial Action Project which is an organization that promotes bipartisanship in new generations of legislators and we actually have some of those folks here in Kansas and then also a program coming up featuring a partnership with the Carter Center as well so so keep an eye out on Dole Institute news and we'll we'll be excited to see you again soon so have a good evening thank you foreign foreign [Music] foreign

Channel: The Dole Institute of Politics

Views: 311

Keywords: Dole Institute, Dole Institute of Politics, Politics, University of Kansas

Id: 0oMPAcNN1ww

Length: 78min 50sec (4730 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 24 2023