Finding The Source of Stray Current on Grounding System

we're gonna find it we're gonna find what's going on hey my name is Ben thanks for stopping by and especially welcome to any of you guys who are new to this channel I know that a lot of people have joined in the past couple of weeks thanks in part to the video that went up and actually did perform pretty well so thank you so much for watching that video for commenting and all of your thoughts if you did not see that video I'll link it in a card right up here and you guys can watch that now the topic of today's video is directly related to that previous one in that we had a little bit of current thank you guys for correcting me on my terminology I'm trying to do my best we have some current that is still leaking to ground even though we have all of our neutrals and ground wires separated inside of this sub panel so what I'm going to do is I'm going to go through the list of suggestions that you guys had in finding and figuring out where that stray current is coming from one of the top comments was just to turn one breaker off at a time until we figure out or see that that current goes to zero and then we should be able to track down which appliances could be causing the issues the bridged neutral in a box somewhere so if we had a neutral and a ground wire that somehow we're connected together in one of the electrical boxes somewhere in the house that could cause additional current to flow to ground and that could be what we're sensing here now I don't think that's very likely because the vast majority of my breakers are arc fault or ground fault and any arc fault or ground fault circuit breaker like what we have in here will trip if there is that occurring if there is a neutral and ground connected in a box somewhere my breakers would be tripping and so I don't think that that's likely but it could be now one that was mentioned by several different people is the possibility of it being an induced current when you have parallel wires going through a system especially inside of a Raceway or a conduit that can generate inductive current now I am NOT an expert on inductive current I want to learn more about it and maybe make a video at some point the water heater was mentioned as a possible if one of those elements is leaking some current to ground emi filters which are electromagnetic interference filters and apparently they use a whi class capacitor and with that the that capacitor or that emi filter can put some power back onto the ground and that is by design now I don't really know what I'm talking about here so we'll just see what we are able to track down now this is a super interesting one difference in potential between two sets of ground rods now a bonding strap being connected in an appliance is another possibility that could be like a dryer or an electric range where they are designed such that they can be used with a three wire cord or a four wire cord and there's a bonding strap that connects the neutral and ground inside of that appliance and if that was not removed then you could see the situation where some of the current is going back on the ground wire so before we figure out where this current is coming from I want to put a pole right up here so you guys can click on this pole and you vote on which thing you think is the most likely scenario or the most likely problem obviously I will know the answer I don't know the answer yet but I will know the answer when I publish this video so I'll make sure that the correct answer is in there so go ahead and vote and then we will see you what we actually track down thank you to whoever pointed out that this is not an amp meter this is an ammeter when you're using it in the amp measurement mode so we're going to put that into our ammeter mode and then we're going to clamp it around our EGC going out to the panel outside and we'll see how much current is currently being carried and you can see right there we're at like 0.17 amps earlier when I checked it it was at like 0.2 - so it's obvious that there is some difference depending on what is running at any given moment so we're going to go through and start shutting off breakers come down this side and we'll see which circuit is the primary culprit okay so here we go starting at the top I'm turning off the septic pump sump pump the furnace was already off upstairs bathroom level bathroom upstairs laundry room basement laundry room attic and kids bedroom receptacles master bedroom and hallway living room and stair receptacles I think this next one has a good chance of making a difference this one is the circuit for the office which has lots of electronics in it so we'll see if it was an EMI issue I'd expect it to be coming from some kind of a piece of equipment so we'll turn that one off and not really so turn off the office circuit and it didn't really change much at all all right we're going to keep going down here here's basement receptacles outdoor receptacles is next and I have three different freezers plugged into this circuit so I don't know if they would have an issue nothing at first anyway now we are to the kitchen circuits so I have my first kitchen circuit second kitchen circuit third kitchen circuit the dishwasher attic and upstairs lights so this is a lighting circuit there are several dimmers on that and some people have mentioned that dimmers could be involved in this situation so we'll check that not that one now we're going to be turning off the main level lights again additional dimmers on that one that did not have any effect either okay so we're down to our last circuit that is for just a regular 120 volts circuit and that is the lights in the room we're standing in right now so it's going to get a little bit darker its basement and outside lights and smoke detectors okay guys we're down just 240 volt circuits now then we're still drawing some power no not power some current on that EGC so we'll keep going so we're at 0.16 amps and we'll start turning off our 240 volt circuits this is the upstairs dryer right now there's not an electric dryer plugged into this circuit but nothing there and now we'll be turning off the electric dryer in the basement now I kind of wonder if this is a possibility because it is an older dryer it does have a four wire cord on it though so it should be fine but here we go didn't change the thing and see it the amp draw actually went up a little bit there 2.21 now here we go electric range didn't change it at all and actually I do not have an electric range plugged in right now either okay here comes the water heater and I think there's a possibility that maybe this is our our culprit and we'll find out here no point point 1 9 amps still alright the last circuit in our entire panel here is the heat pump outside air source heat pump here we go huh it's still the same you guys it's still the same what is going on all right well let's turn off this main breaker just for a good measure here we go this is the one thing that this is going to kill when I show off the main breaker is it's going to it's going to kill the power to all of these GFCI and AFCI circuit breakers because these draw like I don't know exactly but they draw a little bit of power in order for them to work I'm not sure if they draw power even when they're turned off or if it's just when they're turned on but actually what we'll do here I want to pull this this surge breaker out and see if that makes a difference so you guys can see that we're at our amp draw has went up to 0.2 for 0.2 to now so I'm just gonna pop this the surge breaker out here and see if that has anything to do with what's going on very carefully that did not change it at all either so interesting let's snap that back in did you guys know that these surge breakers are now required in new installations based on the 20/20 code or at least my understanding of it so if you guys want to see how to install a surge breaker I will link to that video right up here and we can talk about that some more so go ahead and click on that and we'll see you over there after this video all right now we're turning off the main breaker here we go point one nine we're still getting power no not power current current is still flowing point one nine amps let's just take this off here oops and there it went to zero so I think what we're gonna do now is measure to see how much current is here we've got point two okay and now we're gonna measure the current flowing on each of these this should be absolutely zero so let's just check it out really quick [Applause] well yep it is zero zero there these ones are kind of hard to get around this one is totally zero and this one's really hard to get around you guys doing this for you there we go and zero okay totally zero so we're at point two amps and I have no idea why There is obviously power flowing no not power current there's current flowing from outside in like almost like it's coming back from the first panel out in the yard so we're gonna do next is we're gonna go outside and shut off the power at the first panel out there in the yard and see if that kills this or not I don't know what to think about this this is he crazy it's so weird all right here we go let's find this we're gonna find it we're gonna find what's going on this is what's cool though what we did determine so far is that all of the devices and things inside of the house here are working correctly there is nothing in my electrical system here that is bleeding current to ground okay there's not anything that we really measured or nothing that I saw obviously we're an appliance or something else was leaking current to ground so that is cool so we at least are on the right track in our troubleshooting process of eliminating that as a possibility so let's go outside and check it out right now snow is melting and the sun is shining out on the field it's melting the snow but the temperature difference or something about it is creating this like fog / steam stuff that is just rolling across the Prairie here in southwest Minnesota it just looks so cool alright here we are out at the first panel out in the yard I'm going to go ahead and open this up so I'm going to shut off all the circuits here find out if that took care of it so inside of our panel again now there's no power turned on at all and oh my word you guys it's they're still point to four amps running through that stinking EGC point two four and guys I I do not understand this this there is still the same amount of current going through that ground rod as there was when the entire system was energized we have the main breaker turned off outside that feeds this panel we have every single breaker turn off inside of this panel and the one out there and we are still getting current flowing through that wire the wires the feed the panel inside the house come out kind of right underneath the front door and then they're buried about six feet down coming across over to this panel in the yard which is next to the transformer and the electric meter so right now we should be using no power at all on the property now is it proper to call it power and now at this point since we're not really looking at wires or should I say we are using no current on this property you can let me know below in any case it doesn't look like anything's happening there we're going to pull this cover off and just take a few measurements and see if we can figure figure out what's going on I forgot my ammeter my ammeter is in the house I'll be right back I'm gonna go get my ammeter now you guys are going to get to see my sense energy monitor the way it's installed out here I have a discount code for those of you who are interested in the sense energy monitor it's super awesome but I'll try not to talk about that too much but the link for that discount for subscribers will be in the description below and since if you're watching this I'm sorry this is a non-conforming installation of the sense energy monitor but you guys are bound to see at some point in time be extremely cautious when you're working in any live electrical panel and I wouldn't recommend it unless you are qualified our power coming into this panel is this wire right here as well as this wire right there and so we'll go ahead and just test those to see if we have any current that is being drawn so on this leg we have zero point zero zero amps exactly what we would expect and hope for given that our main breaker is turned off right there and then right here we are drawing 0.00 amps again exactly what we're hoping for now I wonder if we have any current that is flowing on this neutral wire which would be coming from the center tap of the transformer so it comes in and it's tied to the neutral bus which is tied to our grounding system down here is where our grounding electrode is tied into this neutral bus so if we had current that was leaking to ground it could be maybe coming from that center tap of the transformer I don't know we're gonna find out yes I was right you guys we found it hmm you guys see that their point four amps is coming from the neutral wire which is connected to the center tap of the transformer right over there this has gotten so much more interesting than I expected it to honestly when I started this I assumed we were gonna find some kind of electronic thing I was thinking the EMI thing was going to be it with or inductance or something like that that was creating that weird load on the grounding system but that current is coming from this transformer the center tap of the transformer which is the neutral then goes into that panel and is tied onto the grounding system so at that point is where that current gets dissipated through my grounding system and any point at which there is a decent grounding electrode some of that current is being distributed through that electrode so we have electrodes here in the ground that are connected to this panel and then we have grounding electrodes over here by the house that are connected to the panel inside there that we've been looking in there's a ground rod right about here and a ground rod over here so a percentage of the current is leaking through the grounding electrodes right there now coming from the house across this open area back into the Grove about 150 feet we have a copper gas line that is acting as a grounding electrode right now because there is no dielectric Union installed where that pipe goes into the ground we're going to be solving that in a future video so make sure you subscribe if you want to see that but in any case that's a very significant grounding electrode right now and so we have a percentage of that point 4 amps that is flowing into the ground through that grounding electrode because even with all of the circuits turned off the grounding system stays fully connected when you turn off a breaker it only disconnects the hot wire and not the ground or the neutral so this brings up a whole new thing that I do not understand and it relates to whether or not electricity wants to go to ground now we talk about electricity I always wanted to find the like shortest path to ground it's actually not the shortest path it's all paths back to the source not necessarily to ground but in this case it is actually current that is flowing from that transformer and into the ground so obviously there must be some way for that current to make it back to its source so I don't know if that source could be those power lines way out there by the road that's about a thousand feet away where the closest grounding electrode would be pounded in the ground there's no transformer over there that the big power line going across there is actually a transmission line and so I don't think that that one's involved but maybe that transmission line has some kind of a grounding conductor that is being used for some reason so right now that neutral wire is at point 3 6 amps so still a pretty good amount of current 125 point 6 volts on one leg reference to neutral and 125 point 6 volts reference to neutral on the other leg so we are very consistent there so the good news about this is that it doesn't seem like my electric meter is counting this power usage I'd have to like put a time lapse on it to make sure that it it doesn't move but as far as I know it only monitors the usage on the two hot legs and not the power usage on the neutral but I could be incorrect correct me in the comments down below if I'm wrong about that but I'm pretty sure that that's how these meters work is they just measure the two hot legs another interesting thing to me is that the amount of current flowing on that neutral varies so right now we're only at point two seven amps 0.26 whereas earlier it was at point four so it must just be the electrical system has some variance to it I am super excited to see what you guys say in the comments below so I'll definitely be hanging out there as much as I can after this video goes live and we'll be able to figure out what we need to research next to understand this a little bit more with the current flowing from that neutral wire and into the ground so if you found this video to be interesting make sure you smash that like button right down here and subscribe to the channel to see more videos just like this one if you want to keep learning with me click on one of these videos here on the screen I will make sure to put the one where we discovered this problem in the first place the boss just got home and probably gonna have to turn the power back on now I guess

Channel: Benjamin Sahlstrom

Views: 246,880

Keywords: EGC, Stray Current, Stray Voltage, Grounding System, Electrical, Diagnosis, How To

Id: q-RrufV6Gig

Length: 21min 31sec (1291 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 27 2020