Final Fantasy VII Remake Review Discussion

hello my name is kinky but you knew that already that's not my catchphrase but I could make it my catchphrase I guess Final Fantasy 7 remake sucks and we're here to tell you why I hit the big right eject button that's a joke don't leave yet I know somebody out there is taking me seriously oh my god I was like this gang a little too spicy we just going right into this huh no don't going in with those hot takes well people know who I am but people need to know who you are you the faceless entity I just said I guess I'll go first uh hi everybody my name is core ideas YouTube channels well core ideas I do video a game and movie analysis stuff like that and I'm here really just to both gush and somewhat critique don't crucify me fall Fantasy 7 remake someone else is allowed to go yeah I know I'm just trying think I've seen if anyone else want to take it do we want to like do the watch my coat do we want do the in-depth like personal histories right now along with the introduction or do you want to do those separately you know I can yeah sure I'll go with that um so my personal history with Final Fantasy 7 is sort of mixed I played Final Fantasy 7 up to about the middle of disc 2 wells kid and I remember loving it a lot but at the same time I wasn't really sure of where to go because of the overworld because I was used to playing The Legend of Dragoon and the legend dragon in the overworld is just literally just a linear straight line yeah yeah yeah so I was like oh where do I go so much freedom too much freedom my brain ah and so I just kind of put it off to the side and I kind of learned about 597 in terms of the characters and the story in the ending through kind of culture osmosis like I just learned it from watching Tom passing seven average children and we key you know we key spots and different things across the years and it wasn't really until last year that I sat down to play it from beginning to end and really fell in love with the game like there were some things that annoyed the hell out of me being in old school you know JRPG but thankfully due to the three times speed multiplier and the no random encounters think feature it basically made the game a lot more bearable than it would have been without it and the like it took me two or three tries to be tougher off and when I finally did it it was so rewarding and I could definitely see why a lot of people ended up loving it back in the day I would probably put it if I had to like to make like a tier list probably like a or s on that list alongside like fancy twelve and nine and nine yes and absolutely no I can't forget nine yeah no can't forget but not ten ten is like B or C it's gonna go out with that hungry uh-oh defend ten but that's a different discussion for another day yeah we would be here four years new podcast topic anyways I guess I'll pick it up from there hi my name's Ryan seals i run a channel called codex entry where i talk about a lot of nerdy [ __ ] do video game essays what was it uh do a lot of stuff about like Devil May Cry Capcom and all of that that's probably what you know me for if you do know me and recently I've been doing a lot of stuff on Final Fantasy a trend that I am planning on continuing it in the near future as for Final Fantasy 7 itself my history with it is basically like it wasn't the first game I played by any metric but you know how you have that thing where like you have that game where it might not have been your first game but it might as well have been in terms of like how much it got you into games yeah yeah that was Final Fantasy 7 for me like I playing it on the ps1 back when I was a kid and played through the first time absolutely fell in love with it and then I think I must have played it at least another dozen times after that at bare minimum uh so like I absolutely love that game even now I like of course as I've grown and like I've developed my tastes and all of that I found things about it that I take a bit of issue with it of some minor things that do bug me and that I wish weren't necessarily the way they are but overall even now I think like not only does it still hold up exceptionally well but it's probably still my favorite final fantasy game overall I don't think it's the best one because that's 9 but it's my favorite interesting to see yeah I can agree with that yeah so yeah that's kind of what I have coming into this like I am very emotionally invested in this as an idea as it were the concept of Final Fantasy 7 yeah love while you clarified the idea as I go boy we're gonna get some hot takes on this one oh yeah ok I guess I'll go next if you're done yeah go for it ok uh hello my name is Daniel Santos and I run a youtube channel by the same name I used to go by shinty reviews if you know you might recognize me by that name I do a combination of videos on anime and video games I my last video as of this recording at least was a in-depth analysis on the anime school days this is why I can we get can we kick them off for that like I don't know that's something I can say no no that is something you have to reward not critique hey hey I hate that show just to be clear but you know I wanted I wanted to kind of yeah I wanted to bring something interesting to the table in terms of discussion with that show because it feels like anyone that talks about it just goes yeah I hate the main character and the ending so I wanted to show that there's more to discuss even though I personally don't like the show but you know anyways you people typically associate me as the the tails of guy or the the fate guy even though I haven't like made fate video in a while but anyways as for my connection to file Fantasy 7 so when I was younger I had the demo disc for the game for a while and I had I didn't play the full game until years later so for a while all I had was that demo disc which was just the first reactor and we were playing that like over and over and thinking like oh I wonder what the rest of the game is like eventually I played through five as he's eight and nine and beat them before I got around to seven I even played some of our fantasy ten before I played seven and when I did I distinctly remember being actually kind of mixed on seven when I first finished it and it wasn't a game that I truly appreciate until like years later I started I think I replayed it again I reflected on it more and I started to really appreciate what it was that made ff7 like really special and nowadays I would say that if I were to rank it its side by side with ff9 and tactics which I think are like the cream of the crop like the best Final Fantasies okay yeah now I'll agree with that that's a good dake yeah definitely so that's me now yes so I'm Fox you probably know me for the channel Fox Kate if you know who I am I do a lot of people know me for Devil May Cry and character action type videos you know Bayonetta Metal Gear Rising but I also cover you know the occasional TV show and anime really just depends what is just hitting me at the time and in terms of Final Fantasy seven I get to be the weird outlier and say since I didn't get into console gaming really until the ps2 era my first exposure to Final Fantasy 7 was actually not counting Kingdom Hearts like scene cloud it's actually dirge of cerberus but I actually really liked that because I was like 12 at the time so like it was like that perfect like I was like the target demographic for that game yeah that's honestly the best way to play dirge of cerberus zero context when you're 12 yeah exactly and then yeah and then I progressively played the other games cuz I I barely been recognized it as like like if it didn't say Final Fantasy 7 I wouldn't have even like thought about it I just was like oh look at this cool like cover this cool looking guy with his hair and he's got a gun that was basically my logic for playing but then I started playing the other games I went through ff7 and then I did Crisis Core and I really liked the world of ff7 I think there's a lot of really interesting ideas and details in there and the stories really well put together I I don't know if I put it as my favorite final fantasy world series I think I'd probably put a valise over it yeah the lease but that's just like personal taste I do think seven deserves all the credit it gets because it is a fantastic game and kind of a believ pseudo zero great yeah so yeah that's my general feelings on 7 it is in the core of my being but I still really like it my final fantasy story I'm realizing was very complicated and very strange even to this day I thought was the first final fantasy product I even interacted with probably technically is Kingdom Hearts I guess but yeah there's nothing worse than being introduced to dirge of cerberus first I think you know what's funny was that my introduction to characters like cloud and squall and all of them was because of Kingdom Hearts so that became what I thought they were supposed to be which I later learned was definitely not what they were supposed to be it's not as interesting but I think the first Final Fantasy game I ever played was I think it was Crisis Core which is really weird like I don't even know why I wanted Crisis Core to be honest but I got it from Blockbuster it's okay it's because you had a PSP and there were no other games yeah that was the real reason why I quickly I fell in love with Crisis Core I like it I think it has Final Fantasy 7 in the title right yeah but I think so yeah yes didn't really think it was like I knew cloud was there but like I guess as a kid I didn't really register that it was like a prequel at all like I just thought it was some weird like spin-off thing so hard not quite that far gone I knew the cloud was from Final Fantasy 7 I just didn't like I had no idea what the plot was for Final Fantasy 7 besides Sephiroth was the villain of it and cloud was in it yeah well you were aware of the you were aware of the cultural osmosis stuff but nothing outside of that yeah like I didn't know that there is a [ __ ] cat thing which I still don't know much about because whether I have never finished Final Fantasy 7 but when I finished Crisis Core for the first time I was like typical like ten-year-old like this is the best game ever like as oh it's just so enamored by the ending of it and I'm like wow Zach's like the best and to be clear I still love Zach because of that game but I don't know how I feel about the game anymore but as a kid I I was I was like yeah I love this but for some reason that never spawned into like maybe I should go check out Final Fantasy 7 because I just never really did it's just like crisis course fine fine enough I don't need anything else how did it feel seeing cloud in Kingdom Hearts betrayed us that really dark brooding you are my darkness the character to seeing him in crisis core where he's just so like hi I'm cloud I'm a bubbly team we'll see that was my first suspicion that something was very off like about the way he was in Kingdom Hearts that even know I had no like I had no experience with Final Fantasy 7 playing Kingdom Hearts and like something's off about him like something does not feel right about him ironically Sephiroth is more iconic for me in Kingdom Hearts than he is in Final Fantasy 7 because I grew up with playing Kingdom Hearts 2 fighting him all day but he's the legit challenge in that series that's all it's pretty cool how Sephiroth is like an amazing boss in like three different games at this stage worth for christ there's so many good stuff Ross now this is a problem I was intensely disappointed that he wasn't in Kingdom March 3 yeah well weren't there like very few Square Enix characters and in Kingdom Hearts all 0 remind oh wait only in remind yeah oh wow yeah I did not know that in game it was a questionable I don't want to go into that I can't go into that right now I'm gonna focus on one square based disaster at a time exactly we have one new moral thing to talk about we don't need to go into another my first main Final Fantasy game which might explain a lot about me it was Final Fantasy 13 that was my first yeah that's interesting kid when I first played it as a kid it was like 12 I don't know if that still counts as a kid close enough at that age I never finished it I got like pretty far but I didn't finish that I didn't finish told a lot later but I think that being my first real Final Fantasy is and it was like the reason I'm apologetic towards it maybe hey I just replayed it and actually kind of really liked it so I'm right there with you I'll never forgive it we got like massive like ideas about fantasy 13 I love it I never but my point is I never finished seven I still haven't finished seven I tried to play recently like a year ago I think and I'm trying to play it again now to actually finish it after playing the remake but I tried playing it a year ago I got to the gold saucer and this is half not really even the fault of the game but half of it kind of was because part of it was after I got a because I loved Midgar so much but after I got out of it it felt really aimless and weird and strange and when I got by the time I got to the gold saucer I was like I hadn't not vibing with this at all anything that's going on right now anything after mid gar anything like it just felt weird and strange and I can't really go into it fully because I would take me forever to explain but then I got to Barrett's backstory after the gold saucer and mic game on switch just crashed and my last save was before the chocobo races and I'm like I am yeah go back to bear up well I will say in this maybe might be like ambling us more towards getting to the remake talk after all that is I think that is the benefit of the Midgar section is it has like a strong sense of direction whereas once you get out into like the open guy apart it is nice getting this like wide open space to explore but it also feels a little bit aimless at times at least that was my experience with it I I would say not even just a little I would say pretty aimless because once you get out of Midgard there's really nothing to tell you to go to the small town where the chocobo forces I mean you're allowed to just go straight into the desert area where I forgot what the monsters yeah the big snake yeah the big snake and there's all them yeah exactly so like you get to go there and then you figure out through trial and error like oh man like this is gonna be a bad time if I try and fight this guy so then you go to the town and there is a sort of direction where it's kind of hinting that you should go and try to find a different solution but it is kind of aimless and considering there's a lot of random encounters it can kind of get a little monotonous after a bit without like getting speeding future you see this is really kind of surreal to me because I remember when I was growing up the common consensus was that the Midgar section sucked and the game got good once you left Midgar no I heard that too which always it's very much it's very much based on personal taste and maybe when you came into it I guess yeah I think a big part of it is like because it is the first time you play through it it is very much like it can be a little trial and airy but especially once you get past the mid guards olam it like opens up in a way that's actually like fun and it feels like you have agency rather than you're just being railroaded once you get you have achieve like once you get past that K you've they and like right after the Golem I think that's when it starts getting a little bit more direction of where to go and it doesn't hurt that this was around the time when like you started to get summon materia as well oh yeah yeah in that back in like 2000 even was like like those looked impressive back then yeah you get the fat chocobo when you go to that little town with the chocobos and you can make them dance and then they gave you the summoned yeah yeah it's great I mean I love the dumb stuff like that in ff7 and I appreciate that the remake did not shy from the silliness I am so happy that kept some of that silly stuff in there the honeybee in once we get talked about that is probably my favorite part of that whole game Final Fantasy is like one of the silliest series ever created and the fact that squares spent the better part of a decade trying to pretend that it's not has been like the core problem for a long time tell me about it this thing has rideable chickens come on there rideable chickens that have their own theme song oh my god that theme song is amazing I don't care whatever j'n from ff5 is the best version oh I love the rebug the remix that's in 15 like this techno remix I was like okay I'm digging this did 13 to have its own like metal version wait what what what version did ff7 are have OH hip hop did chocobo or something oh yeah there was the other was it I'm pretty sure there was like a chocobo theme that was like a little bit more leaning I think on a hip hop angle get omatsu give me that trap remix of the chocobo theme I need little Uzi vert feature come on know what we need in the it's an extended version of that fighting track when you're going with era 2 2 woolmarket oh it's out it's so good it sounds like something straight out of like I think Mac said it best where sounds like straight out of Tekken it's amazing yeah remake is definitely a game that I think had so many different expectations for it they grabbed there were so many different ways to approach Final Fantasy 7 remake from either the to somebody who's never played Final Fantasy 7 or just fancy alert there what were we all expecting from it I was expecting more or less because I was reading some interviews I didn't want to read to you know readers see too much to not be spoiled but pretty much what I expected was a one to one remake to a certain point I knew you know we'll get into the you know major story stuff later but like the whispers and stuff like that I knew that was into it and I knew that that was gonna change a few things but for the most part I felt they were gonna stick to the main path and then have maybe some diverges like diverging point at specific moments in the near the end and I was kind of right with the last part being expecially true so I guess my expectations were mostly met with this game see I was expecting less of one to one and more closer to not what it was but like in the same way that like when I when I first saw like trailers and stuff like way back I was like okay like they're gonna hit all the important beats they're gonna hit all the things that we expect they were very upfront early on that it's like don't worry guys we're gonna do the honeybee in cloud dressing up sequence we will not be removing that so I was like okay they're clearly gonna keep to those details and they're not gonna cut stuff out just for the sake of it but I was expecting something kind of in the same way as like resin evil to remake where it's like okay they're clearly gonna like try some different things and like but overall keep a similar story structure but there's gonna be some a few divergence yeah I basically expected something similar to like the Twin Snakes remake so like better graphics are gonna amp it up a bit you know they're gonna expand certain things I don't think any of us expected what they ended up doing towards the end but you know even with that in mind I decided you know what I'm gonna go in with this into this game with an open because regardless of what they do the original is always gonna be there I can always return to it I can always play it so I don't need them to do a one-to-one remake I'm totally okay with them switching things up adding stuff removing things you know to be fair though they didn't remove a ton they they wrote very little they mostly just expanded they flesh things out they added and they removed one important thing but that's about it yeah yeah they certainly extended things they see marry add button on the calculator to middling effects but yeah for me I basically was coming into this like I defected Lea just thrown all of my expectations out the window I was just ready to accept this as whatever it was because whatever it was wasn't going to be like what I like had pictured in my head I could tell instantly and likewise given how like square has been in the past decade like it's quality was until the moment I had it in my hands its quality was so up in the air for me it could have been amazing it could have been a complete train wreck so I was just doing my best to be like okay I'm just going to play it I'm just going to try and enjoy it in the ways that I can as much as I can and accept it as its own thing and do my best to not get too hung up on its relation to the original which as luck would have it is the exact opposite way nomura wanted me to play this goddamn game yeah no went into it expecting I honestly did expect a one to one remake I don't know [ __ ] why I play Kingdom Hearts I did not think they had the balls to do what they did I'm just gonna be honest like I thought they were gonna play it safe I really did but well I will say this and I've written this down somewhere is that it's it's very weird kind of remaking ff7 nowadays because it's one thing remaking resonable to remake or present evil 3 cuz I don't think like changing that most of them it's just changing the perspective and you know some of the stories stuff is a loss a little bit but generally the same game not same game but you know what I mean but with ff7 it's like it's such a drastic leap from where it was contextually when it came out that like it's not even really fair to not compare it but it's like the expectations were so high for this game in a way that it never could have reached this game could have been perfection and it still would have been tough to meet what ff7 is for some people especially if it was a one to one you make because when it originally came out on the ps1 it was you know low low poly text low poly textures you know yet your the the models were basically like Lego blocks and stuff like that so the player has to like kind of imagine what happens it's kind of like a book you had to kind of like you know perceive what's happening and give you kind of did like give the game the benefit of the doubt in a lot of cases where as in you know 2020 where it's like hyper realistic graphics and all that stuff it has to work so much harder to meet that you know because you those things you can't you know there isn't gonna be that level of like oh cloud hands something to someone but if you don't see it and it's like what was he handing to them you know what I mean well yeah yeah go ahead and there is a huge level of abstraction in the original game that isn't going to be allowed in the remake due to the nature of it having to fully render all these environments which were previously big JPEGs if we're being honest like you know JPEGs and movie files so yeah yeah and also and also the other factor to that that I was trying to like form as I was talking is that when ff7 first came out like way way back in the day that was like the big mainstream blowout for final fantasy and JRPGs and that was when like square was gonna be like okay let's do something really weird with this series we have and we're gonna do something very different this game kind of had to for a lot of people had to just be that but it was never gonna have that same impact coming out because it's like oh one video games are super mainstream now like it that's like the biggest thing so it's not gonna have that cultural explosion to it and it's always and it's not gonna meet that like high expectation put upon it in that same way so that's why I kind of look at Nomura and you know the creative dev team you know like you know what all criticism I might have aside I respect them even trying it because I don't think there's a harder game to be told you're remaking and being able to accomplish it and please everyone yeah yeah especially since this is a game that's so centered around like its story its storytelling and its presentation and all that even in the original it was such like compared to everything else at the time it was such an unbelievable spectacle to see so much of what it was doing but obviously if you just did a one-to-one translation of like the ps1 stuff like you know polished up the graphics and then shoved it on a ps4 that it does not hit the same it is a different time in place it lands completely differently yeah like especially concerns like the fact would like Resident Evil 2 remake rather than evil 3 remake it's that more or less when it comes to you know those survival horror games I wouldn't say like it's easier to remake it but basically you know tank controls and all that stuff like resin evil for I think somebody made a mod that like takes the camera and puts it like survival horror ways and shows you that's pretty much the same game oh you mean the fixed camera perspectives yeah thank you thank you and so when it comes to like the world war Ferrari 2 remake and or e3 remake it's pretty easy to take that old-school survival horror format and convert it into a third person you know exploration type game in the mansion and everything police station and everything like that it's much different when taking a game where turn-based combat as much as I love to her base comment I love turn-based combat that was pretty much the only forum like there was some experimentation in JRPGs but not too much turn basis pretty much the form of combat and the style and which had presented itself was pretty standard that is no longer so in bogey I guess you can call it like there's games like you know persona 5 and Dragon Quest 11 that still show hey this is still viable people still love this but it's definitely not it's not the zeitgeist and exactly it's not the zeitgeist anymore it's not as it's still an active healthy genre but it's not like the deviant unless you're persona it's much harder to sell turn-based gameplay to people outside of fans of that yeah that's why when they announced that it was gonna be sort of like this mix of tactical even brownie back when cyber Connect was working on the project like it was this mix of turn-based like tactical decisions real-time combat I was intrigued by that idea because I was like ok that makes sense as long as you keep some form of tactics in how you use spells and abilities I think that's fine and lo and behold I was kind of right ya know like we'll probably get into this more later but I really liked how they were able to translate the combat system in here overall like have my gripes with it like carrying the way the original combat flowed into a like new era effectively I think it does about as good of a job as can reasonably be expected like to put into context have you guys know that after beating remake I went back to 13 and 15 and to see the evolution of basically each game's combat system and see that they clearly wanted to go into this sort of real-time combat system but we're too afraid and kind of limiting themselves in a lot of areas I can pretty much finnaly say that Meagan's the best version of that that they could have come up with is not even fair there was a lot even better layups leading to this sorry what was that there was a lot of half steps steps leading up to this exile yeah like like it has the stagger bar which was introduced in 13 it has the switching of characters which was introduced in you know 15 12 and 15 and stuff like that and there's a lot of elements from both of those games that they said okay we really messed up according to fans and you know that people love you know 13 people love 15 but of general consensus is that the combat systems weren't the best and they basically looked at those two games and was like okay we had some really good ideas in here what can we do to make it better and I think they actually you know some issues here and there they pretty much nailed it out of the park oh yeah totally yeah if we're if we're going into like our general thoughts on like execution now I think the combat outside of like minor gripes I have I think they hit the perfect balance with sevens combat because you know like a lot of people when when I saw trailers and it looked like kind of like 15s combat I was a little but I think they did find a perfect balance of that Kingdom Hearts ask real-time combat while mixing in what FF sevens turn basis you know integrating like a TB system into it when you prime an attack and ability you can pause it so you can actually strategize where you're aiming and what you're doing it's it's this perfect blend of like real time action with like hints of strategy that really when it when it when it comes together perfectly it's so fun I wa yeah like what was it cuz like I you guys know this but I did I finished a run-through of ff7 are on hard mode and like what was it after having spent that kind of time with it I've come to really appreciate just how well this style of game play sets itself up to be far more strategic than it is reactionary you know that this is the way I've been describing it is this is a traditional turn-based game wearing an action game skin yeah something I really had to come to grips with though because at first oh it's super into it I won't start trying to play this game like i play Kingdom Hearts and it was not working no I understand that first why it wasn't working the white like yeah I just had to switch in my brain like 10 hours in I'm like wait this isn't like an action game is it and then all of a sudden it kind of just clicked in my head and I was like wow this is really great but I have to like I had to train my mind to not play it a certain way before I came to that conclusion because when you try to play like an action game it's like you have to realize you're supposed to take damage sometimes you know what I mean like and the dodge doesn't really have exactly the dodge it doesn't really have a frames I don't it I don't know I really don't it doesn't but it's good for positioning yeah exactly but when I was first playing it I was like well I'm gonna use this like I play [ __ ] metal gear rising or Kingdom Hearts like if I dodge it won't hit me but they hey that's very hard to figure that out that how it works I don't know the pari materia has iframes when you use it it does okay it doesn't it deals damage that said everyone's peri is kind of slow except for tifa's which it's broken if you take anything away from this if you haven't played the game yet the number one thing I want you to take away equip the pari materia on Tifa it makes her 50 times better when you're actually controlling her hey interesting okay to do that because I love switching over to Tifa to pretty much get that stagger bar as close as you can near the top just see it raised like by a huge bargain though and they get cloud oh my god it gives her the best getaway option I found it really impressed me this is kind of the same well when I play like any action game like if I'm playing melody rising or playing Kingdom Hearts I'm like you you are mostly stuck with the one character until a level switch happens and then you become somebody else sometimes in this I'm like wow you can just real-time switch to somebody who plays completely differently which is kind of crazy to me because like obviously you're able to do that in turn based games for the longest time but this is like pseudo action so I'm like well yes like they did not phone in the difference in style is at all and really feels very very distinctive yeah like Barrett for example like in the original game don't get me wrong like I used Barrett every now and then but he wasn't really a character that I liked went to for any fights and then in this game I was like at first it was a little weird cuz you know cuz you have cloudy as a sword and everything you have t5 punches and everything and Barrett's in there in the back just shooting shooting his guns it was a little weird but once you really click with Barrett especially once you have that section where it's just him he you really figure out how to like manage and it's yeah that section when you're playing exclusively is him that's the that was the first time where I was like oh he's actually really good yeah it was fantastic and that's also around the time where you get a Big Bertha along with a maximum yeah I was probably the command I used the most for him seems good it's fantastic like all you have to do is charge that up to two bars and it's pretty much a non-destructive stop drink stream of bullets it is on me I also appreciated how they balanced his character because his dodge is kind of not good but if you think about it that would make sense not just because of his build he's a big burly guy but mechanically speaking his dodge would be worse than everyone else's because he has the benefit of long range so that's the handicap for him because he has such a huge advance the fact that he could stay so far away from enemies and deal damage honestly honestly I just put the ATB builder for when you block on him because I was like well if I'm using him I'm not even gonna bother I'm just gonna just tank it yeah see that makes it this has like no you have to do with the like the actual combat but aerith's dodge animation makes me want to dodge all the [ __ ] time because it's like does a little spin jump yeah I don't know why but in combat sometimes I just spin around is there because it's ice with your attack head like I've been Oh something it just feels way slower to attack with Aerith as much as I love her dodge her attacking like I never went to her to attack oh yeah she's a mage you see I I would she quickly became one of my like basically my second in line right after cloud in most circumstances cuz while her attack isn't especially good her ATP abilities are also [ __ ] shattered oh absolutely unfair are we gonna build it alone is that the one that gives you like two that lets you another cast yeah that's it yeah and then she also gets a TB ward later on oh yeah yeah and she even she just straights up straight up gets a wall at one point like you can just conjure a wall to block projectiles if he doesn't get a chair of an ability to you they're gonna say well I will get very mad the things you're talking about right now that I don't think I even got for air or I just never used like a lot of them what was that the the wall one for instance is very easy to miss you have to steal that from the ghost area thing I didn't yeah I remember reading the chariot boss and being like you can steal something from him and I'm like cool I don't even have steal just I don't have 30 you know I just don't have it at all so what did you guys think of the whole like weapon ability thing where you have to use a specific weapon to you know be able to unlock that ability indefinitely I like in every game that has it I actually always liked that feature where it's like once you learn this then it's yours yeah like 5a c9 and tells of Vesperia like that so that type of system I always dug it like because it always makes you look forward to the next piece of equipment that you get because more than just like whatever benefits that piece of equipment has you're also looking forward to the skill that's attached to it yeah that's why I love Lost Odyssey Lost Odyssey has a similar skill you know still way of doing things where you have to make the immortal characters tie their abilities to immortal characters in order to learn abilities and they do it right there with a lot of credit in that every weapon as soon as it's like oh well I don't need this anymore toss in garbage it's like no there's actually valid reasons to go to older weapons you already have proficiency everyday use yes yeah it's like maybe it has more inherent materia slots maybe this one has like super high damage maybe this one has just something I ran into a lot is that some weapons have linked materia slots and some don't yeah it's only watching game like factors that I need to link like the magnifier or something and I yeah those links lots if they don't have it where that's where the upgrade system comes in and I'm so glad they are and they added that system in like I think the upgrade system was great I didn't like it at first how I realized that it meant that every weapon on long enough time line was still going to be useful exactly and sure enough like by the time I got to the end of hard mode first off everything gets six materia slots so it just comes down to what you prefer in terms of actual use um but like that is the reason why I finished off hard mode with the goddamn buster sort of all things yep yeah to this exact moment I think that's probably the best weapon in the game for most situations though honestly yeah it's not it's not that sophisticated though cuz you can honestly just set all of the weapons to just auto auto set for max damage and just leave it at that see yeah I did that with my weapons as I had an auto auto do their upgrades because yeah sometimes at first I was going through all of like the crystarium basically what it is but uh I was going through it and I'm like I really don't like I don't really care about these individual things I'm just kind of gonna let it go like when I saw that you couldn't auto upgrade based on like attack balance or defense or whatever it was I was like this seems like cuts out the middleman for me cuz I'm not like I'm I'm not a crazy big min/max ER so I don't really care where it goes as long as it's upgrading yeah see I'm the opposite I love getting into the nitty-gritty and seeing all the stats that I can up you know increase or you know I like having that control so I actually really appreciated that the weapon system worked the way it did and especially like ryan said before that it kept the buster sword as a viable weapon i mean it's such an iconic weapon and i always thought it was i mean it makes sense in the original game that eventually you would get better swords but it always did seem like a little weird that you know it's on the front cover you know it's in all the promotional art that he has this cool sword but then it gets quickly replaced in the original game so i do actually really like that the buster sword can remain in rotation and be a viable weapon throughout the entirety of the remake like i yeah i'm right there with me me and king I think both agree with that it's just more like the minutiae of like oh I have just enough points to get like a upgrade now I'll go do it's like a I'm not gonna like stop what I'm doing to go get like one +10 fire damage you know what is the thing that gets to me is that as soon as the system is like you get plus 3% magic I'm like instantly do not care cuz these upgrades are not substantial enough for me to like yeah I knew there was an enzyme until I knew there was a thing that said it for you I would just wait until it was like 40 points and I would be like oh I get like 4 upgrades it's actually it's like a substantial game yeah and that's why I didn't like the system initially is because it just felt like another one of those generic boring upgrade systems which are like one of my biggest pet peeves but once you get a start like holding on to like a hundred or two hundred skill points and you're able to like actually build something and like create the weapon into something that's like specifically useful for what you need at that moment that's when it starts to become more interesting to me yeah like I was afraid like King K said basically about the crystarium worse I go hey it's another crystarium thing the difference between the crystarium and this is that the crystarium despite having a few branching pathways it pretty much forces you to get certain things like HP plus 50 or something like that as you're going through the leveling so you might as well just made that system automatic like there are some branches and the crystarium were in order to get a like in order to get fire ax or a blazar ax you have to go off the beaten path so it's like why not just give me that ability on the main path yeah the the difference between like a good skill tree system and a bad one is the level of agency that is given to the player has to matter in regards to like you know how they craft their characters like it needs to feel like the decisions that you're making are meaningful and in the crease of the crystarium especially for like a large portion of that game you're just gonna railroad it into just getting omega plus 20 or whatever and it doesn't really feel that rewarding because you don't have that open also like a fourth way I would kind of push back on that little because like I don't think it necessarily needs to result in something being like inherently expressive per se especially in something like ff7 where you're eventually going to hit level cap you're eventually going to be able to buy everything this isn't Wow or Diablo you know for me the big difference is that the things I'm buying need to be something I'm excited to buy so like I don't think anyone's ever been like oh yeah plus foreign magic defense that's what I want that's what I've been but stuff like one of the endgame abilities that some weapons have are like a reprieve which means if you get killed you immediately res with one HP that's super helpful that I grabbed instantly and was very happy to have it I mean I guess I'm it said new material slot yeah that too you know that's probably the best example yeah cuz it basically turns some weapons from having basically little to no usage in the later game to pretty much mean oh hey I can actually use this if I want to and like we were talking about where every weapon is viable it's just it just depends on what you want to bring into the battle like do you want to just go in like complete strength-wise and just get the baseball bat or the or the nail bat excuse me or what's uh what's the one with the the Japanese symbols on it hard edge hard edge yes thank you and if I use those two if you want to go full strength if you want a more balanced approach and the master sword is your best bet because that thing is just balanced to perfection I expected like this the rhythm I get into for like any turn-based or just any RPG really ever that has gear where you get to a new town and you're like okay where's the shop so I can immediately replace all of my gear and weapons and that didn't really happen in this instead I'm like where's the shop so I can find a new weapon to get its ability and that was like a new kind of rush for me cuz I like before it was kind of like okay this is kind of a formality I have all the money I need to just replace all this [ __ ] that I have to get my stats up and then this one it's like I am excited to see what new weapon I'm getting and what new cool ability it has like when I got the nail bat and you could do moves that was like you're swimming in a baseball bat I'm like that's like I'm gonna use this for a while but then when I got when I got sick of that animation I'm like okay now I have the hard edge or whatever and I'm like well I have the ability so I'm going to switch off and do what I would like that's it's just like I like that a lot better than like lying obviously the Rings I'm in a little too like upgrading your weapons and equipment I wouldn't say it's like bad I just like it I what I expected was that and what I got was not that it was exciting to me I always like in the game or the play certain placement other weapons like you get the nail bed in the section five slums which when you really think about it makes sense like they don't have a lot of money to like spend on getting really good weapons so here's a giant bat with nails in it and that works just as well and then you go and get hard edge right next to the Coliseum why wouldn't you get this really strong weapon to go into a fighting fist like it make myself I do question why like this is just this isn't even really a point like this is not a point of criticism but I question why Barrett would want to put a wrecking ball on his arm that was in the original doesn't work here like put this thing on my arm so I can like uppercut let me smash the ground for what it's worth those abilities especially if you combo them can do a great deal of damage and stagger but at the same time why the hell would you I know what actually yeah this has nothing this kind of a miscellaneous point when I first started hardmode I still had a melee weapon equipped to bear it oh and they force you to do a ranged combat section that for turrets that cloud is not allowed to jump up to so that was an agonizing hard mode fight in a mode where you're not supposed to use your MP okay and oh yeah and you can switch gear in Midway and I was I thought certainly they would have thought of this and would allow clout jump but worse they want you to use Baron in the normal game but I didn't have like I don't know if they ever thought about the idea that you could have a weapon equipped to Barret that is not his ranged attack but I don't think they have to have the idea of like still keeping like letting you get items in hard mode when you're not even allowed to use items so there's some things they didn't think of it yeah there's more than a couple things about hard mode that I would argue are not completely baked if you know what I mean yeah pretty much yeah it's not fully cooked yeah exactly it's still a little raw exactly I think I think that actually segues us into because we've been like praising the combat pretty well but I think there is some like grievances at least like I know like some of us have I I think one of the biggest problems in this game and I think King was actually fair and kind of going into this game kind of expecting something leaning towards Kingdom Hearts because there is some things that reinforce that feeling and one of it is like you know there is some level of aerial combat but it's not well designed for it and then every enemy that in the air I [ __ ] hate I hate every enemy that anytime any character wants to jump in the air I'm like whoa calm down like snuck in like a three-hit combo that you can't escape from for five seconds well it doesn't help that like some of the first instances and where you can use aerial combat is when you're fighting the drakes in the warehouse and it's an enclosed area where you're trying to fight flying your enemies and it's like why would you do this I think the worst of it is when you're fighting those helicopter dudes the with the propeller Heller hands they're terrible like [ __ ] alone on the tower and yes the fight yes after people I'm like why it's terrible I always die normally it feels like the devs are [ __ ] with me during that same like he genuinely frustrated me to the point where I got so frustrated with them that I was starting to do worse in the combat so you aerial combat didn't bother me until them cuz I was always like I always had like arathor Barret until they did not let me have those two so when I didn't have those two I was like well I guess time for cloud to jump in the air because I'm not just gonna sit around and wait for my 8 DB to charge well I mean you could also equip era or however you pronounce it and it's like you could do that but I mean I can see first-hand experience that you can do that and that is what you're supposed to do but it's still not fun to wait around for that ATV to charge so I think that brings me to one of my personal issues with the game is you're not able to customize your materia mid-battle you can only do it before or after and this can result in a lot of problems like if you have like an elemental equip like an element equipped to your your sword for example like a fire element and you're fighting against an enemy that absorbs fire or something you can't just like oh let me just go in the menu and fix it no you're good that's your ya know that unless you decide to Reese like you press you could press Start and you can go to oh you know the before the last battle and then you could switch it if you want but you shouldn't have to do that yeah like at a certain point I started trying to guess yes yeah yeah yeah I always just [ __ ] died I want to go Reese lot my material ya know there were tons of fights where like I walked in and I was like this is not the right gear I need and I would just restart the fight and like spend five minutes figuring out I thought I had that word I had the worst of that like trial and error combat and to certain degree like trial and error and figuring out like the best like bills gonna be fun its own way but the worst I had it when it was just flat-out just this is just aggravating is with error aerith's Combat Challenge in Hojo's lab where it's like her oh she with that one I had issues because I just kind of went into it just like okay let's see what this is and let's test this out and it was like okay this is gonna be tedious but okay get through it then I got to the what's it called the ghost and the ghost puts on dispel so none of Eretz attacks do any damage like at all she has no options on that so I was like okay I got a restart and get breach because that's the only option for her as far as I could see is you have basically turn off the ghosts ability to deflect magic and then I tried again and the ghost basically took off half my health because Gareth has not a lot of Defense what was it like admittedly I did this at cap so it made it way easier yeah but that said sorceress source versus storm isn't technically magic it's an ability and I feel like I really can ride it and it didn't work I could be wrong okay well the thing is I I discovered this the hard way because the situation I had is I can't remember the fight on normal but on hard Algor the skeletal chariot and the graveyard in the graveyard that thing on hard halfway through casts reflect on itself oh no no I take that back that's a lie that's a lie it casts reflect on you which doesn't sound that bad until you try and heal yourself and here's another thing I don't think many people know this because the game doesn't really call for it any other time but did you know you can't cast breacher to spell on yourself I found that out the hard way but I also found out the hard way the game you can't do dispel on yourself nope that seems like a deeply questionable yes yeah that's funny because I was playing Final Fantasy 8 the other day and I did that all damn day yeah yeah no it's what to be fair that was like the only time I ever found where you'd want to cast a spell on yourself but at the same time like why should I put that into the equation basically but and but they'll also tell you the real reason why it's because that's the one fight where it happens and what they want you to do is unequipped all of your healing materia and use prayer in chakram tyria hmm so like there are ways to get through like stuff like that stuff like reflect even with someone like Aerith in that specific situation like I'm really confident that like sorceress storm would have to go through that because it counts as an ability it only reflects specifically magic yeah that said it is definitely obnoxious as hell sometimes oh yeah I think the only boss that truly aggravated me was the one that goes down the elevator with red 13 berry such a like I legitimately beat that boss as it was charging its final attack with almost no healed like no MP left no potions no nothing you know what it does lazing and just beat it by accident you know what it doesn't communicate well is that you're supposed to keep the characters one behind and one in front like I remember I got halfway through I got halfway through the fight before I realize there's a weak point you can expose on his backside like yeah there is yeah yeah because what they want you to do which I don't know how like I don't know if there's like something I missed or if they just expect you to like into it that Barret is supposed to be out on one side and Aerith is supposed to be 180 like opposite to him behind the ball like i intuited that just because it's like oh it can only fire in one direction so just split up the team rather than keep them yeah exactly cuz like there's there's multiple pillars in that room that you can use as cover so I just kind of naturally split them up because of its targeting one of them that means it's not targeting the other and that means the other can still be attacking while this one's hiding when I was when I have you know I the characters were already split up as it was so I just naturally intuitive base on that like oh this is how it's supposed to work you're supposed to go back and forth eret or Aerith would stick very close to me and I never got far enough behind that I could even see that there was a point back there and that's what confused me so I'm like well I guess I'll just like keep hitting the things giving it shields like what confused me was that since it's you know machinery I was like oh just like the games taught me for the last like 30 hours just use you know lightning material on it but no you have to use Lazzara or blizzard or any sort of ice one on it in order for its main weakness and I was like that seems a little SPECT different confuses the why blizzard was the one I was like unless there's something in the original game that I'm not remembering once I figured out what to do it just was longer than it needed to be yeah it has way too much health honestly it days it has to anybody ever take out the wheels I don't know like I know I even now I don't know I still got one of the wheels and it makes it so that stops charging around oh yeah that might be it because I think I did take one out using like catastrophe but I don't but yeah that speech speaking I'm long into the wheels and then like it did less damage than I was doing to the boss itself and that's what I just said not speaking of that boss though that also points another problem I had with the combat and this is kind of the trade-off of like action versus like the GA JRPG cinematic attacks thing is the amount of times I whipped an attack solely because oh we're going into a second phase we need to play you this cutscene yeah my god especially when that attack is a crucial heal that happened yeah it's like or something you like saved up for like all this gonna be like a limit in fire or something like that or Fraga and it's like oh you just whiffed that entirely you lost that entirely solely just before it's going into a second or and I hate this when it when it's staggered and then the stagger resets yeah oh my god to this exact moment I am still shocked that like you can hit like every Shinra rent-a-cop you encounter with clouds like 500 pound sword and they don't get [ __ ] they don't care at all but if a soft winter breeze passed by Barrett a bit too hard while he's casting here that's gone you're not getting it back yeah aggravated me about that specifically is that I'm pretty sure when you're casting like a really big magic doesn't it take your MP before it even goes off yeah yep yeah yeah and it can be interrupted which is yeah yeah because they take a lot longer like you get one thing if you could still take damage but like because like I understand that like it's supposed to be long because it's powerful and it like I get that if you're still supposed to take damage then it could punish you for doing that at the wrong time but the fact that it can be interrupted but it still takes your MP is like a slicer and you wanna see and what it honestly means once you like really start to dive into it is that the high level spells like even like fire uh not even farrago but even fire ax are just not worth it they're not worth the risk they're not worth the cost like you will be able to get out the base level spells way faster for way cheaper way more reliably than any of that [ __ ] I would say that even in the normal play through that's still the case because like regular fire just or like whatever elemental material just if the person's weak to it will just increase their stagger by a lot anyway so just increasing the attack strength doesn't really do all too much in comparison yeah after a while on normal after being interrupted on my god spells so much I was just like I like no I'm good and this is and this is where you have that like scene between like action versus like strategy RPG elements and this is you know just just where like there's like that little bit of conflict because I understand the idea of like you can't constantly interrupt the enemy because then they never get out an attack so you know you gotta let them have your chance but it is also frustrating that like oh you make one mistake like where your place it's like oh you just get [ __ ] for that one mistake and it's like okay but like why like why can I not activate those spells why do I have to go [ __ ] the other edge of the other side of the battlefield to do spell casting because it feels very like counterintuitive like oh I want to cast like a thunder on this machine better go to the other side like better go walking well like having been playing thirteen like I noticed that they had a similar you know summer [Music] aspect to it in terms of if you get hit then you lose the ability that you're casting but the difference is in 13 the ATB fills up so fast in comparison that you can still get at least one the - you know spells or attacks you're trying to get in and when you're switching paradigms like Kincaid suggested you do get damaged but you don't stagger or it doesn't like stop you from switching so you do get a sort of a risk/reward thing like okay I'm gonna switch now and I'm still gonna get damage if I'm in the middle of an enemy's attack while doing it but in comparison to Father I think about 7 remake words just like oh hey I'm about to charge his attack and oh oh it's gone yeah that was probably the most frustrating thing about this combat for me anything interrupted and there's another minor gripe and again I think this is just like a thing they could refine in the next one but it is like something I've seen a fair few people kind of comment on and I think it is a fair issue is that any character you're not currently controlling or giving like commands to they nearly might as well be standing still in a lot of cases yeah they're kind of [ __ ] sometimes happened to me in hard mode with the scorpion dude I don't know if it's just the scorpion or the AI but when because it does to laser tax on hardmode instead of just one with no window and it doesn't like at first the first time it ever did it I was like okay I had Barrett under one pile of debris and cloud under the other and once one of the rebels went away I went to the other character and it seemed to attack both of them equally but later in the fight he attacked the same character twice for like real reason I don't know why he were you controlling the character I don't like I don't think I what like he said my experience the game really targets whoever you're controlling to the point where like in the final Sephiroth fight he will only attack who you're controlling it's actually kind of easy to abuse yeah yeah that's what I did like if I'd noticed that he was starting to go after cloud or somebody that I thought was weak in health I was like nah switch over to somebody else so that he can target him and I was like okay now I think maybe the thing that got me there then is that when he started charging his laser attacks I was I was controlling cloud and then when he destroyed the debris I switched to bear it but I guess it didn't seem to matter because he had already started charging again for cloud that's entirely possible but at that point I was like well who at that point I'm like I don't know who I'm supposed to be controlling him either of them are equally at risk yeah like my experience was you know I'm like oh okay this is gonna be the one laser attack and then I moved out of cover and then cloud just immediately got it you know incinerated by that laser and I was like what the hell just happened so then I had Barrett and Barrett can't defeat him on his own so I was I guess it came out to like the normal playthrough I had that it wasn't really until hard mode where I noticed it was that much of a problem it was a little bit like it was a little weird at first but I can't remember a specific normal mode boss fight that it really aggravated me that my a I wasn't doing things correctly or something because I had so much control over all the characters that well the thing is like in my experience the biggest problem with hard mode by a wide margin is I even now I don't know when the game really wants you to do it because it's not tuned for like level 35 to 40 which is probably in my experience what most people kind of end up being after one normal play oh yeah and like so it but it's not tuned for that at all you are going to get owned there's no way there's just no way I'm convinced I did like five fights on that scorpion thing and I got some of them as clean as I think it could be but my numbers just weren't big enough it was that simple and sure enough I do another playthrough to grind up some stuff and so I can you know see the story again get to cap come back free it's completely free it's so easy and everything was like almost every fight was arguably easier than it was on normal cuz even on nor at least our normal like you didn't have all of the tools you need it and you didn't have counter stance which is so busted it hurts plus you didn't have like the knowledge of the system itself to completion by that point once you're into a new playthrough you're like okay I know what abilities work well like if I have a group of people triple slash all the way there is no way I'm not using triple slash if there's even more than just two people yeah exactly I feel like that thing is so feel like while I was admirable of them to try and combine the the merits of both you know the turn-based combat with action based combat I feel like trying to find that compromise has ended up creating a combat system that's honestly Wow fun it just feels really messy like I feel like it had they focused more on the action side of things that they could have tightened the mechanics and they could have made something that was more skill-based because a lot of times it does feel like you you're just kind of screwed and it's out of your control and that just sucks you know like sometimes well kind of intrinsic to the nature of JRPGs onra sometimes you're just going to get like dumped on sure but like I don't know maybe it's just because I'm used to when I'm playing an action game you know I'm thinking of something like Devil May Cry and I know you're not so I'm not supposed to play this game like I'm playing dumb a cry that's not really fair but I also can't help the fact that some of the deficiencies in the mechanics make me think back to they'll make Ryan go like [ __ ] this wouldn't be a problem in that game you know well and you see this is why I this is why I call it a JRPG wearing an action game skin because like I totally get that impulse because I had that exact same impulse for a long time but it's also kind of like denying what the game wants to be in a way that very emotionally yes what very clearly wants to be a JRPG but it wants to give you a little bit more freedom and the way an action game does but yeah because when it comes down to it the more important thing is less what you're doing in terms of like the action side it more depends on your numbers like a jail yeah like how I saw it was that in a you know typical turn-based game you're gonna get hit no matter what you were gonna take damage at some point in that fight there is almost no way for you to go out on skates unless you were like completely overpowered and so if I was like designing the combat system I guess it makes sense for that character constantly getting damaged along the fight because that's what happened in the original game that's what happened when you were fighting and you got damaged and all that stuff so it makes sense that you wouldn't have a lot of ways to keep the damage going down so it becomes a way of managing your MP and your items just like in the original game I think I kind of agree with Dan though where it's like it's still a little messy and it definitely I mean yeah other actually tells of grace is that for example I think has one of the best action RPG combat systems ever if you're skilled enough you can play that game and not get hit like and I don't see Wi-Fi fancy I understand five as I said remake wanted to do its own thing and respect that but I don't know if that's really an excuse for the mechanics to still not be tight enough for you to be able to play the game skillfully I mean to me that's kind of akin to asking why is it impossible to do no-hit runs in like Final Fantasy 14 because that's another game where there's a lot of skill in there and there's a lot of positioning there's a lot of knowing what to do next knowing enemy patterns and all of that but like even if you dodge every AoE every orange circle that gets dropped down in that game you're still gonna get hit a lot okay and you can do a lot to mitigate that but that's also part of the challenges up keeping your team through the like cadence of the fight yeah that's how I saw it I saw that the game wasn't necessarily about dodging and making sure that you didn't get hit but more of okay you're gonna get hit how do you yeah I get that what do you use in order to get I didn't understand that no I I guess I just don't like it it's a personal thing no that's fine yeah that's fair like there was something about the comment system that just really clicked but also felt off and I think it had to do with certain abilities where I had the same ideas you did dan were I would convert into that Devil May Cry you know mentality or I'd be like Oh directional inputs and stuff like that but there really isn't that many directional inputs in the game so it's like he just kind of yeah there's a gear missing almost like it felt like there should have been like an extra mechanic or something just like a jump yeah yeah yeah a jump button in a launcher that's really I think the biggest things this game was missing and an aerial recovery yeah yes absolutely I wanna I don't have a big launch with Erath and then just do helm splitters why do I want to jump in the air with era they knew that Raby attack like that would be free of judgment yeah that'd be awesome doing the air but like I had an idea they told me all the thing is though we've spent we've spent quite a bit of time on combat she made me move on to other stuff sure well yeah you got to go on the hard modes feel now or but I think we kind of were yeah I feel like that was basically it I think there's only one thing I want to say about the combat system and that is that I see a lot of people this is something I see a lot of times happen in gaining discussions where say a game comes out and it has some elements that maybe aren't so great about it that people kind of immediately dismiss it and don't think about how they can improve on the sequel considering that there are so many games out there where the sequel just vastly improves over the first and many instances like Kingdom Hearts and Kingdom Hearts to Assassin's Creed Assassin's Creed 2 uncharted 2 uncharted 2 and this is one of those instances where yeah we had we loved the combat and there but there's clearly some things that are wrong with it and I think that all they need is just that one extra game you what they're getting that's equal out I think that's the one because now they have all the assets done they generally know where they're going with the story as far as we're aware so now they can focus on making sure that the combat now that it's done has more deaths so it's like the first ones the first outing here's what we have give us your feedback and in a second it's like okay let's polish shoes too so here's my suggestion before we move on I get that maybe they don't want you to switch materias on the fly during combat so if that if they don't want to do that my suggestion would be to allow you to have different loadouts that you can switch to during combat so yes that guy would actually be a good idea yeah that would be the way we can get rid of this issue of like you know your hat you have a fire element on your sword and the enemy absorbs fire and you're just kind of screwed unless you reload like that's just not fun just and now it also has because it's like up indeed okay I was just gonna say with the weapons it would have really been nice even without being able to switch between them in combat just to have a loadouts set then you could just go in and go oh I wanna I know I'm gonna be playing something electric I'm gonna use this you know this load outside yeah because I ended up having to kind of guess what was around the area like okay I noticed that the majority of the enemies in this area are organic so I'm just gonna use fire cuz Muslim are weak to fire and then I almost of his machinery guys switch over to mine you know could extend to the equipment as well like as the different weapons have all their different specialties so you can have one loadout where you have your sword that's more specifically geared towards magic and then you can have you know all your material set up with that in mind yeah cuz that's the other thing that's kind of frustrating is like the game definitely wants you to like swap out like materia a lot and like set set things for very specific situations but like the UI isn't bad by any means but it could still be cleaner and that the loadouts I think would go a huge way in addressing that I would get a reason to actually use the differences in these weapons because I think for the most part I think people are gonna stick with the buster sword for example because it's balanced I do but it this loadout idea were to be implemented it would actually give people a reason to actually want to use the other weapons in different situations yeah speaking of the low spui sorry go ahead sorry it's there a way to change your before I make this complaint I want to ask if there is a way to like change your entire materia set on a weapon and give it to somebody else all at once the easiest way to do that is and it is kind of squirreled away I didn't notice it on my second run through but when they're going to the character menu you can hit r1 to bring up everyone's materia yo man just trying go to quickly swap it so yeah I guess you didn't know how to do that the entire game and yeah it's they do not communicate very well I was really annoyed yeah I accidentally found it as well and I was like huh they should have you know told us yeah when the amount of tutorial they give you at the beginning it's like that should have been one of them them all little gripe I have to is I know I figured out too that you could use out of combat you can hold l1 to use items that's what I was gonna bring out that's exact but I still think that's really shitty it's like cuz it's super slow and like we'll just kind of get caught if you're in mid animation and we'll let you keep doing it anymore and I don't know why it had to be so slow out of combat like I don't cuz of the animations it's always an animation thing when it comes to these sort of slowdowns and combat geisha because they don't let you use it in your inventory when you're not in combat I don't like yeah it is a perfect time I had to heal up my entire party was so my potions I was like okay time to hit time to hold l1 and hit X before Isis really just hated the idea of making items good yeah it's kind of weird even though a lot of times those items saved my ass more than I can count because as much as I used Acura and stuff like that there are some times we're just using hi-potions consists considerably faster than casting the spell like it's way faster to use a healing item because compared to a magic spell so might as well just use that instead I know we want to move from combat but there's one this is a bigger topic this is how do you think the bosses were designed on the whole fantastic very different went into that too and as if I collective really good but there are some standouts tinker's yeah great once you figure out the gimmick yeah yeah it's literally just elemental mix and match yeah yeah once you figure that out it's less tedious but until you figure it out geez yeah that hell house is just the definition of trial well when you only had elements to work with it's not fun oh yeah I didn't really run into the trial and error too much because of the assess materia which was kind of like I used assess materia and a single fight that I entered so like I don't know if this takes away from you figuring out the fight or not but knowing what to do like because when you assess materia he'll house it immediately says use the opposite magic from I I just I just figured that out from years of like Pokemon and JRPGs of like oh it looks you know I see that right away but again I just didn't have the right loadout it was just yeah annoying yeah and it comes out to that yeah that comes back to that discussion no yeah I thought the boss fights on the whole we're like my favorite person to come that like really is it truly shine but there's also some ones that are just genuine frustrations I think the stand out for that and it's one of the best boss designs cuz I kind of dig it but uh eligor was one of I think my least favorite boss fights of the entire game I think on the whole lotta fights were good but I think a consistent issue with them is that they're just sponges like they just they just take too long to take down I think some of them I think more the problem for me than them being HP sponges is that some of them don't have the most like some other phases might take too long as well yeah I probably the best way to plan a good like because some of them have a really good variety of like the hell house is like it starts out one way then it goes another way then it goes another way and it's like this constantly evolving like [ __ ] battle to the death against this weird house with a face robot thing like I still can't believe they had the Hell House but then you really thought they were going to cut it like the like the weird fish in chapter 17 and I'm like oh the robot-y oh yeah the sorta PETA like maybe two attacks hey well here's the things like that debt like attack where it just sends down these balls of electricity onto the floor that caught me so off guard the first time I was like how the hell do you dodge that oh I just run in a circle around okay I'm good so I actually yeah we were like the highlight of my playthrough but definitely some of them just lacked phase variety that made like just kind of made them feel like ass long huh given the Bharath and Aerith one marion eric barron Aerith one at the end of the game is like it has a lot of phases and they do some cool stuff but it's just like some of the phases lasts way longer than they should and I don't know why they were divided up the way they were I liked um oh I feel like such a fake gamer right now for forgetting all these names but uh the one where you have to divert materials in order to like Airbus low air Buster thing yeah like like using the Shinra air like area and using that to manipulate how the boss works in the fight I loved that and I wish there was more of it yeah I I think the air Buster is probably the best fight overall oh you have a lot more agency in it not just that but it's also like I just found it to be one of the most fun to engage with and try to drive around yeah yeah my favorite might be the last one yeah oh yeah also that like that that's the one exception but that's also the last one I also have other things to compare that to so it becomes like its own individual tier list almost yeah that's yeah that's fair yeah we can't really talk about that right now yeah and now we could probably move from combat yeah now we a segue to the story like okay so what is everyone's without going into like like the new ending in 2010 did everyone feel before Jeff yeah how did you how did you feel before chapter 17 how's everybody feeling before chapter 17 I was feeling like I was never to plussed about how they were handling Sephiroth I'm still not that plussed about how they handle it son Roth it's not yeah why I don't even know why we like put a spoiler tag on it he shows up two minutes in yeah no the secret is about like his involvement in the ending yeah you also show me one human being alive who sees him in the first five minutes and it isn't like oh you're the final but it's nice to me yeah yeah he has air of I am like it's not even subtle it like who else was it couldn't be we also went like oh you came to the wrong corner half so I think like spoiler talk and kind of be fine at this point yeah yeah I heard some people go into it like oh hey like if you want to you know get into Final Fantasy for the first time remake it is what I was thinking until the ending exactly that's I was like oh this seems like you could provide any place if you don't know yeah I think I think someone didn't play this without experiencing the first one and get like a decent time but they're definitely gonna be missing out on a lot of key moments because you know as I think Ryan and Cora were saying much earlier is that like Nomura actively wants you to acknowledge this as a remake like he he and the rest of the team are like actively pointing at bits like remember that scene yeah the the what's going on there so I think you're gonna be missing out on that eye element a bit I thought having experienced the original I feel that calling this a remake is a misnomer this is a reimagining I think it's yeah I feel like oh yeah I get that mentality I actually don't I don't know in it now we're getting into semantics of what are we make sure I think this game really brought up that discussion more than almost any other 100% every kind of it in a lot of ways the points because it's like can you think of any other game that's a remake that [ __ ] slaps the title remake in its title no yeah this is a first for sure like it's they were it's like if they wanted to be anymore like obvious about it they would have called it re semicolon mate remark like how they did remind I would have yeah like I think I've seen no one knows but I was like I think that would have been the best way to approach it because then it would have felt a little bit more like okay it's like now it's very clear about what you're doing and I don't think people would have good in that close because that's just powd Namara does but do you think that was part of the idea but like I feel like it almost had to be deceptive in nature yeah yeah yeah I know there are lots of people out there who are like this was false marketing this was whatever they know all this stuff and I'm like I understand but also this is a twist like III I think we've all mentioned this at one point I think but I think without going too much into it right now it genuinely feels like a Metal Gear Solid 2 Sonora yeah that that's literally what I've been comparing it to over yeah I big apparent of that like as soon as I feed I was like that was Metal Gear Solid its Metal Gear Solid 2 and like how deceptive it is depending on how you want to yeah and then the other comparison that's very close is the AVA rebuild films yeah yeah oh yeah big-time although I will say the difference between this and both of those I feel is both of those had it generally felt like they had some level of kind of contempt almost for their audience especially two especially mgs2 but like now that's for you're thinking about for both of them both oh gee medium is like anyone who's bought his game in two years Kojima at Kojima and uh know in a way very much have contempt for their audiences yeah we're but meanwhile this is like almost reassuring to a point where it's bordering on coddling it almost feels like they're they're doing a lot of that a like meta-analysis on the nature of remakes as a way to be like no it's okay don't worry I know this is going to be different and we're going to change some things and it's going to be very well it's okay baby but just just stay calm and stay off - Mysterio here clouding the dress it's okay it's everything and my kids like yeah that's really cool that's great I love it thank you for being there for me and I appreciate it but at the same time I'm a [ __ ] adult just give me the thing I think here here's if you want my opinion on this considering help people have been reacting to it could you imagine how much worse this course would be if they did treat people in that okay you're an adult here you go well you know what's weird about it is that I've seen a lot of takes that essentially are like looking at the whispers and saying that it is a direct call out towards the peope like I don't think there's any question that the whispers are symbolic of remake expectation yeah yeah but yeah a lot I've seen a lot of people take it to mean they are actively antagonizing the fans who wanted no nice I know that and I and I've had this discussion with Ryan plenty because we've been kind of trying to like pieces together and like because there's a lot of ways you can kind of internalize that and in some ways it does seem like it is saying like that that idea that you are bad for thinking and wanting that but you also look at you know what the whispers are in the story and you know where they appear how they appear all that stuff if we're looking at it within I'm gonna say look I'm I'm just going to say right now that I'm gonna do no-holds-barred spoiler right now so we can just yeah I don't want to have to tiptoe around this so for people listen I'm just gonna say from here to the end it's gonna be spoilers no-holds-barred just as a warning yeah but yeah just can you continue that thought I think there is some level of like the the creators kind of seem to understand that fanned expectations aren't malicious it's more just them being kind of frustrated and kind of using the whispers to kind of speak about that but when you look at it it's like the whispers are not a malevolent force they're only malevolent in the sense that they're forcing the characters to do what they want but it's not like like they heal they heal Barrett they save Aerith they they do things that help the party as much as hinder so in that way I don't really think the creator's are being hateful and spiteful as much as just venting in a creative way see I had no point had the feeling that what they were doing with the minnow you know commentary was malicious at any point because of how many small details were put into this game yeah woolmarket - you know those sanctified slums everything was pretty much to a tee perfect in terms of Environmental Design in terms of you know small little side quests and deep end you know story details that any meta commentary that they did was not malicious in my opinion it may have been a little bit out of frustration but I when you have a game like Final Fantasy 7 there is no way you will meet everyone's expectations so turning that into an aspect of the story is intense that the whispers are like manifestations of the developers like fears and anxieties and wanting to stay true to the original but also wanting to create a new experience but fearing the backlash that would come from it and maybe feeling like they're not up to it because like being in a position of remaking what is widely considered one of the most beloved and important games in gaming but like just in general like I can't imagine the amount of stress that the developers were going through like making this game and I feel like that manifests through the whispers and I feel that the ending in particular is supposed to represent that the developers have gained the confidence to move forward with their new vision they've breakin the the shackles of fate quote-unquote and that represents like they have now decided you know what come what may we're going to tell the story the way we want to do it yeah one of my one of my dad I'm not I'm go ahead right oh go ahead I was going to say my only kind of qualms with that is it's not like they weren't already changing a ton of [ __ ] along the way sure but the whispers always made attempts to revert it back because I'm sure that development well not all the time but I mean Sephiroth is right there and I'd say that's a pretty big one in and of itself for water of reasons but there's also stuff like what was it like freaking how much of like chapter four plays out for instance that is such a radical but also workers but also now we're pulling at threads because if you refix Sephiroth and it doesn't really work within the context of like the meta commentary stuff or the the ghosts outside of the meta commentary stuff you know like the changes are voice or so with the meta commentary of the nature of these changes and so on and so forth you know like didn't they say if I remember correctly like before they go into the portal that Aerith and red 13 we're basically saying that the live stream has no effect on Sephiroth like that the live stream like because they say that the whispers are basically like sort of embodiment of the live stream they're sort of I think they say they say whispers of the planet or something like that yes yeah but I I get the feeling that the part of the live stream there's some sort of manifestation of life yes dream and so if Sephiroth can't affect is not affected by them then I think it kind of makes sense and he can't appear where he does and you know sort of start guiding things towards a different direction and my people like I kind of go with Dan about the whole like fear and anxiety thing because Sephiroth does like extend his hand and say look you can join me and we can do something completely different and cloud just straight-up rejects it it's like no I'm not doing that and that to me was like their developers kind of having that back-and-forth of like what they want to be different but also having to stay true to what fans well I was gonna say earlier one of my favorite lines of dialogue in this game and I i don't think we're breaking many people's minds and you know saying the whole you know meta commentary stuff a lot of stuff but one of my favorite lines is Aerith before going into portal saying like eric Tifa says what's what's beyond that it's like Oh boundless terrifying freedom and then yada yada yada and then it's if we go there we're changing more than fate maybe that's why I hesitated it's like that more than anything is the writer no Jima no Maura whoever it was that wrote that specific line dialogue looking at the players going we know that these changes are unsettling for you because they're unsettling for us like we're not changing this just because we think it's going to be better and that's it we're changing this to see what we can do and make a new experience yeah I think it's worth noting if I recall correctly in some way all the head of the creative team of this game were involved with the original in some way a large portion of them yes yeah not like everybody involved with it obviously but like I think the only person or original team is the the person new Gucci Sakaguchi's pretty much one of the Aaron of a psychological not involved yeah yeah and it's like a but like people are viewing it as like gay and I understand people who are not into what's going on yeah definitely but I've seen some things that are kind of like to the effect of there are people in the creative team now encroaching on something that should never have been changed by like an interpretation of like these new people are now coming in and changing everything and like but I don't know that that's really the perspective that's going I mean it still ends pretty much where the first game ends they still leave Midgar trying to Sephiroth like the goal is still the same it's just how are they gonna get there that seems to be changing yes that's somewhat someone had to say it someone else said i'm not i barely read it that way but it's hard to not read it that way yeah it like then you get into the whole is this an alternate universe type hugging and it's some kind of alternate universe because it has that different stamp that you see you know not only that not only that but with the crisis core version of what happened to Zack yeah not the original yeah yeah well I mean we still don't know because they do at the end when they're like passing Zack and cloud and that weird you know meshing of timelines saying that they're reaching the point in word Zack gets gunned down and found by Shinra so we still don't know if he's alive or dead and whether or not things have really changed but it does feel like they're going with the whole yeah yeah it's hard to say III sincerely don't know how that could even work cuz that Zack Dinah's clouds backstory like that's the origin that's the reason he is the way he is how did he get the Buster Sword and all that like I'm sure there's going to be answers to these if it turns out to be the case but like weird right yeah am I alone in thank you very weird tonight can it can I quickly read a quote from the original director who's a producer remake III speaking it's a KitKat a say the director of the original who's a producer on remake and also was the one who produced doing their we make in the first place I along with numerous on and no Jameson who were involved with the remake were involved with the original ff7 we were the people who created it so in that sense we don't think anything is untouchable that isn't to say we're changing everything of course within Square Enix and across the globe there are people who think it's on a holy scale that that there isn't anything we can touch or play around with but we believe we know the balance between what we can what we can change versus what needs to be protected so I think that says like that's the end of the code I think that says more than anything that they understand that there are certain elements that are just like no that needs to say the same or that needs to be you know protected as they said versus like I think there's some stuff here and there that you know we can play around with and you know experiment and you know change up whatnot so I think they understand that you know there are certain things that you know need to be preserved that's the impression I got from the game as a whole like yeah there are some aspects that are different but they never diverged too much from it from the original you know chain of events the only one that really felt new was chapter 4 because they introduced you know Ross Roche and you know more it's like a room guy and like come on basically your whole character and that to me is the greatest frustration of this whole thing is it has all these meta elements trying to justify that oh we should be allowed to do different stuff meanwhile chapter 4 is right there in kind of the best part of the entire game and it's all new it's all new and I genuinely think it's the strongest part of the whole thing but it's it's you really do but still within the context of the old exactly like that's like if they want to tell an entirely new story or at least one that diverts more which i think is what they're kind of you know aiming out what the next one is like oh there's you know big changes to come and this is like them just kind of like you know soft it softening the blow a little bit and so it's like yeah like you know roche could have been in the original but it's like changing stuff like bigs being alive and you know stuff with the wedge those are like bigger changes that are even like zack possibly being alive in another timeline whatever have you those are changes where it's like actively you know going in its own direction yeah like uh I blanked yeah it's all good like here's here's here's what I think I think cuz from what the full-on I got out of the ending I think the whispers are just gone from now on I think they're just gone that's the impression I got that they're no longer gonna be affecting the main narrative if that's the case then I kind of see the review point where they go and say okay we want to change Final Fantasy seven and some sort of substantial way and so they use the whispers in this one title alone to get that massive change at the end and then once they're gone everything can be like chapter four from now on where it's just it's not the whisper intervening or anything it's just but this is also kind of where I come back to like how worth it are those meta elements already justified it better by just [ __ ] doing it right but I did metal Amazings just an extra factor to the actual change yeah and I I think that's fair but I think you also kind of say if you were your frustrations at having from by a hundred percent do we've also had that conversation like I was just arguing in DMS but yeah I think I think I have a matter aspect I think is just more like an extra sprinkling on just the already changing of the story they were already doing but so much of it is dedicated I almost feel like the whispers were more for the developers and it was for us oh it definitely was yeah I think they I think they tried to entangle it into the actual change yeah yeah like King you said you haven't beaten Final Fantasy seven right like the original no but I feel like I have the perspective of somebody who's just beaten like you said you got past Midgar and then you didn't get past too much also somebody who's just gone up to that point and played nothing else like what resonated did the ending hate you are harder or was it kind of more interesting to you well like very obviously I don't have the same baggage into this ending like I can't really relate to somebody who feels betrayed by it you know what I mean because I cannot possibly feel betrayed by an ending like this having not played the original really that much until like a year ago so like when I went into this I'm like okay I'm expecting it to be a faithful remake and I am kind of sick of remakes you don't want to be anything more than they are like the [ __ ] Link's Awakening remake or the there's something else that came out that was like it might just be maybe it was just resin evil 3 I'm thinking of but I don't know but that was different like that was disappointing for different secretive secretive man I think well I'm not into that spiral also kind of a remake I don't like the idea of that kind of a remake where it's like Shadow of the Colossus no I it's more the idea of like I don't like remakes that are just the same game except there are some graphical touches and they add some new things that are like like for the Link's Awakening remake for example it was like they changed the graphical style and then they like added new minigames and stuff and it just felt kind of like why are you even I would say that well I would say getting the war 6 I mean that is a nice pyro I don't mean that yeah I like I don't mean that to be patronizing but it's kind of like why are we dedicating so much to this if it's not saying something of its own that I can take away that the original didn't already say I think that's why a lot of movies these days are doing soft reboots it's their way of getting around that issue yeah I want to remake something pretty much won the one but they know that a lot of people don't want just the one the one so they kind of try to like give everybody their fair share like oh hey it's not a one the one remake but it kind of it's this weird middle ground and I'm kind of with you on that word if I have a remake of a game I don't necessarily want it to be a one the one in certain cases sure but for the most part I'd rather have a title that's changing enough for it to feel different the re to remake feels different not just because of certain you know story changes or whatever or extent of story beats but I mean before but like the original is still there it's it's actually more widely available now than it's ever been before you can get it on steam you can get you can download on your switch ps4 whatever it's so easy to play the original Fantasy seven I don't I don't think there's a need to be offended at the very idea of them making changes because the original is so easy to play to their credit well like the thing is I like it to be fits like the thing is the the question I would have and the question I feel this really raises is what is the point of remakes supposed to be at large because like on the one hand I agree with all of this very thoroughly especially as someone who's played ff7 I would ideally like in a lot of ways this is kind of the best I could have hoped for I got to feel I got to find something new in Final Fantasy 7 again that is so cool I don't know if I'll get over that anytime soon at the same time though looking at this game for instance like if you didn't like the original Final Fantasy 7 I can't recommend this I can't do that to you this isn't it's it's not only not a replacement it's not even a meaningful substitute whether the original that's what I was gonna say who is this for what's the point of their credit the director you know Nomura and I think maybe it was katachi we're saying in interviews we really hope playing remake makes people want to go play the original yeah because this is they literally were very transparent of like this is it by no means meant to be a substitute and in fact like seven is its origins and we don't want to do that that's and that's definitely a healthier perspective to have like then most I feel but at the same time like you know again it begs the question of what's the point of the remake itself because if it's just a kind of like give more to people who already loved it like cool I guess but you're also not going to like bring that many people over who were looking at the original Final Fantasy seven and being like oh that looks old and I've waited I don't want to bother with that plus I hate random encounters and turn-based game play I want nothing to do with that so I'm just going to keep both my my younger sister and my dad for the longest time didn't want to play 507 specifically because of how old it was and the turn-based combat and now they're excited to play it because they're more you know they're it's something that interests them more they're more invested once the number is higher than zero without a doubt but I don't know if it's like going to be as big as like the amount of people who for instance we're able to play the Resident Evil 2 remake and get basically the experience of Resident Evil 2 from that and walk away knowing okay I've played that now but I think that again circles back to the issue that this game kind of annoyed presents on itself and it is depending on how you look at it a negative where it's like this isn't a remake in that it's a replacement in any way it's more it's better to say it's a companion piece or like a pseudo sequel because it's clearly using the events of the original as a jumping-off point for this game because there is you know timeline shenanigans and it implies that the things have not even if the original already happened in its own way so the whole ever reads a very meaning iffy on what that means and so it's it's it I mean technically it even takes things from Advent Children and from Crisis Core so it's like it's not just fine fancy so took the nutrients shots like literal clips from the movie yep and put it in like the during those like flashback sequences where the when the yep you know I was like I was like the guy's even I like it like I look I defend like this change in stuff like that quite a bit but even that I was like just rolling my eyes Jesus Christ students like have a little glut have a little bit brings up a criticism I kind of have and this is less about the game and more about like the discussion that's been having and I told you guys this before we started is that like with the whole you know timeline you know Sephiroth clearly you know is from you know future events he knows what's gonna happen and to a certain extent era seems to know because she cetera so you know she speaks to the planet what-have-you but I've seen a lot of speculation that the Sephiroth that we encounter in this game is from Advent Children and there's a fair amount of points that you can give that like okay he has like the big black wing that's kind of been part of his design since Advent Children but if you want to say that is that design sure and then the three enemies you fight before him the the I can remember what they're called in the game but the arbiters of fate the three ones you fight those are supposed to be because their weapons are like a fist so two guns and a sword that's meant to reference that three mooks you the three villains in and then children I can't for the life of me remember their names so apologies but I do want to bring up the fact that okay it's Advent Children that's neat what does that necessarily bring to the table rather than it just being Sephiroth in general yeah like that's my whole issue with a lot of this fanservice II stuff at large is like again as a fan I love it I dig it I'm here for it I think it's fun and all of that but like the moment I step back and look at it critically I'm like okay but why - beef - beef yeah bear that out like we're left with this conundrum like this is part one we don't know if it's going to tie into something larger in the next part or like saying go I hear you I definitely hear you but at the same time I don't know if it's a totally fair criticism just yet because we don't have the full picture but that also but that's also in here the problem is that we can't really critically analyze this to any meaningful degree and that's kind of frustrating yeah yeah well yeah well what what I'll say is like cuz like I totally get that without question but at the same time I also think of like Mass Effect one and that's a game that didn't like it didn't bring out like all of the Reapers immediately or anything but like you know you slowly learned about him and more importantly there was still like a through-line within that individual part one so you still got an individual satisfying story out of it rather than just like a to beat continued and I realize this isn't necessarily the same thing exactly but like you know what you sell me one product and you tell me repeatedly that this is gonna be its own distinct thing I kind of expect it to be its own distinct thing you know like here's here's the bigger question biggest I'm sorry go ahead I think the biggest part like I think the biggest problem that I actually have with this game because I I really really do I love it I guess I kind of I think it's great I think it's a great like I really really loved my time with it yeah but the biggest major problem that like the overarching problem that leads into all of my small problems is that they not only wanted this to be considered its own video game but they also decided that it would be great to make Midgar its own video game and those two things are single-handedly the biggest problem I have with it because it threads back into like anything that I don't really like about it is kind of based on their dislike not like his on its own it's like we want to make this its own game I'm like its own game to be played like to be fulfilled by only playing it even if it's part of a larger story and I'm like okay that's cool but then they also want it to be only based on Midgard I'm like one of these things don't feel like the of like it doesn't feel like that translates the way that they think that it's just because I because then you basically the easiest one in the original game to like from what I've played of it it worked to not have Sephiroth fur because it was only like five or six hours to do Midgar compared to the rest of the game so when you don't learn about Sephiroth to the very end it's kind of like okay that makes sense they wouldn't like show him in the first hour they built up to him so I understand that but then you get to this and they want they not only want to cover all of Midgard but they want to make it its own kind of Final Fantasy game that's akin to like other kinds of games in the series and then I'm like well I can understand the impulse to show Sephiroth more readily because the point at which this game would end Sephiroth would barely like the only thing of Sephiroth to even show up in Midgar is the blood trails and him having killed the president and you see for me that's kind of like one of the biggest things that Scott and left behind is the fact that we see him at all cuz so much of how he was built up in the original game was like it was so much like ambience and like little hints and like murmurs here and there yeah and I send you lies with that but like I'm also like if they ended this game without short like as I think the context is completely different for what like cuz if they don't show Sephiroth at all it's kind of like well are we gonna wait like 10 years to ever encounter him because he's not going to show up in this game at all and like if you're building up to him I guess is the main threat it's like and we already fought him so and I guess it's in separate like you cannot divorce this from what already happened in the original is the problem so of course these comparisons to the original are always going to pop up that's just how it works this remake so then like it feels like them it feels like it all wraps back into this decision for them to not only make this like they wanted it to not just feel like part one of the story they wanted it to feel like its own game but they were also like yeah we'll cut it off at Midgar and something about that just feels wrong there's there's this very well here--here's flash between with how this game handles itself and I think this is kind of in in its own way a core of where a lot of conflicts on how people feel about this game somewhat originated from in terms of people who played it and try to give it a fair shake but whether they like your didn't like didn't like it is the game actively wants you to confront that it is in part a remake it is changing things and all that stuff and it's like but it is still like oh this is ff7 this is ff7 story but then you have on the other hand it has a lot of moments where it's like but this is different though this is something that's changing you know Sephiroth is here because different context in the world I think the directors even said like hey you know Sephiroth is this very widely known thing so like it's kind of harder to hide him and be subtle in that same way that the original game was that's it was causing flash light of like modern context and you know cultural zeitgeist influence versus like trying to stay faithful in a clot a lot of cases and it's like constantly attends with each other here's here's like my mindset is and this is kind of like a question for all of you if the game had ended after the last set piece you know more psycho firing nod yeah yeah guy I always forgot his name um if the game had just ended there like it did in the original where they get to the bridge you know the unfinished bridge and then you say all ready to go fight you know Sephiroth were gonna find him and it was just that would you have felt satisfied with the entire experience III garden I I don't think so but at the same time though III don't necessarily think adding that fight there is inherently the worst idea ever because like yeah you do probably need something big and bombastic and the roller thing is not what you close out your big game on that's just not I don't mean like from a boss respect I just mean in general from the story perspective because the original story you know mei-mei guards only like for you know 5 to 6 hours like concave site so it ends with that boss because it knows that I think a lot of us wouldn't simply because we've played the game so we know what like if it ends there it's like well yeah of course it would end there and but that's the thing a lot of people also want that that's the big discussion that but at the same time I guess my question is what would be that fundamentally different cuz like we're still effectively in the same narrative place before and after that boss fight the only difference is now we've had a metatextual conversation about what the future of the remakes will be yeah yeah exactly like like like that's why when somebody says oh it's changed everything like completely I'm like but did he agree I think it does to change you in the sense going after that you have no real idea what is to come it's literally like the unknown journey will continue and and funny you know if they say it's terrifying they even say that's terrifying on its own it just said froth is saying like Oh be careful you know where you're gonna go that doesn't exist yeah what what's to come doesn't quite exist yet and it's like yeah so they they know and you know to its credit despite you know my issues maybe with its execution because I think that's where my gripe stimuli is less than what it did and more how it did it but I do respect that they wanted to make it so that it leaves off on leaving people in a way excited because now it's not just like oh yeah it ended where it was supposed to and now wait for the next part it's like okay now you guys all get to wait for the next part in like speculate and you know get excited or maybe fearful and you know there's there everybody's on the same page now yeah somebody said it best I don't know who said it but they basically said that the feelings that you're having right now are pretty much exactly what you felt when you first beat the first disc at five and seven all the way back in the 90s or whenever you played it the feeling of you don't know where the story is gonna go and if that's what you were looking for as an overall experience and it nailed it if you were looking for just a one the one even though prints they pretty much says from the beginning and every interview that was not gonna be the case then I can understand and even sympathize with the fact that you're disappointed but I kinda have to go and say that I like it more that I don't know where it's gonna go I'm cautiously optimistic lane I like with no more oh and no jima and everybody's background it's wise to be like okay this is interesting but how are they gonna keep this going what are they gonna do next I've constantly try it understanding like of people who are not into this because like I know deep it like whenever I go like I say something and I'm like I have to keep in mind that like people I'm coming from a background of not having played the game and from a background of having love Kingdom Hearts all my life so I'm like am I am I like am I like two colored in my opinion that this is like the ending of Final Fantasy 7 remake is like one of the most refreshing things I've seen in a long time and it's probably my favorite part of the game well that's I'm not sure how like popular that is about art is it's inherently you know gonna take risks whether that those risks are gonna pay off or the execution was good that's you know almost an entirely separate subject but like yeah like there is gonna be those like you know bold decisions of like hey what if we just went an entirely different direction with this and kind of you know changed because it's like a 30 20 year old game at this point and everybody knows it so let's change things up because if they did I think we've already said this before but it's like if they did you know do the game as it was I'm sure people would have been happy but it would have left no cultural impact would we be talking would been like yeah that'd be fine but then it would just move would we even be talking about it right now if the game didn't end the way it did we would have already been art we went further finished our discussion yeah yeah yeah this game came out two weeks ago two and a half weeks ago and we're still talking about it that's pretty long in game discussions but then again at the same time like if the ending had been like actual footage of like Tetsu you know more just flipping us off with not all discussion is self-serving is that the thicker East like is it that is inherently true but again like that comes with risks and sometimes people don't like risk they don't like change like I use the example of last Jedi as a perfect example where it like really split people on how people felt about it but whether you like it or not like that movie actually did try to make some you know bold decisions compared to the follow up movie which was like the most safe movie it could have possibly been yeah here's yeah I I was kind of thinking that the earlier in the day and here's kind of what I think about that and it's that whether you agree or disagree entirely with the people who don't like the movie their perspective is basically that they feel that at least most of them feel that the movie didn't respect them as fans of the material like again whether you're not you agree or disagree is not you know the point the point is what they say they feel with remake I don't think anybody even if they dislike where it's going has genuinely said I was not serviced as a fan like I was not being treated kindly as a fan they just don't like the idea of the what you know people called an immoral honest [ __ ] oh yeah where it's they don't they don't like that one concept they don't feel that they're being treated wrong or they're being maliciously told hey [ __ ] you we could just do what we want it's more of hey let's all be in this together and whether or not you're up for that most people were kind of like they don't like it but they're not necessary that's that's forward though of how faithful it was for the most part for like 90% of the game how faithful it was because it does give that tantalizing like this is what it you know could be but then it kind of rips it away so I think that's where some people are coming from where it's like it was so [ __ ] close to exactly what I wanted and then it you know hard swirl the very I think that's where like depending on how you either you fell on your feet and you're like okay cool we'll see what comes next or you fell [ __ ] right on your ass and you're like wow that sucked well like it comes into that thing what Dan was talking about like if the game didn't have that ending what we still be talking about it so if the game was like 65 70 percent the same but the last 30 percent or so was completely different would we be having the same level of ferocity than right now yeah yeah I get you yeah probably not like the biggest I think the reason that discussions of this can turn so easily into like because I've seen a bit of like back and forth about this not all of it anything anything that's popular that's being discussed but like yeah not all of its in great faith or whatever but like I think a lot of the reason that people are arguing so incessantly about it is because like even at the best of times I think we're all kind of arguing in a in its own meta space about where we're like extrapolating where we think it will end in the final part based on this sole decision you know like I think it's more about people are very afraid of what is going to now happen rather than what has like immediate because I don't see oh I see a lot of people who are saying oh what if they make Aerith live or what if they do this what if they do this what if they do this and I I don't see that many people who are like Oh sack should have stayed dead like I see that a lot less than people saying what if this happens and that's why I think that's because a lot of people are still kind of on the high of it more than anything else but I do it I do genuinely agree with you on that because I I've been in discussions where I've heard a lot of people or a decent chunk of people being like I don't I don't know about bringing Zach back like it's an again the issue of this being very open-ended and vague and kind of meant for speculation is we kind of don't know to what end like yeah they may be brought back back they may they seem to bring Beggs back and maybe Jesse will that be an improvement yeah like you can't you can't even like the fear of the unknown well I think like I'm not looking to I think the fundamental difference between me and maybe somebody else is that I'm not looking for this to improve anything about Final Fantasy 7 in fact after I beat the remake I said to myself wow I I really think that I need to finish the original to see how those events played out originally and to maybe get like a an appreciation for the things that they're trying differently even if it falls flat on its face and that's why I liked the ending so much because I'm I'm just tired like I'm tired of getting the remakes that don't try anything new because I know it seemed like - I guess it seems paradoxical to want like to make a remake of something and then decide that you're going to do something new with it because even I would say why aren't you just making a new game but that I think it's a little naive to say because this is obviously influenced by the people that wanted it to happen in the first place so it almost feels like it was an inevitability that this was going to happen so like I accept that it had to happen and I'm just glad that even if it like his I fully acknowledge I love what the ending did I think it's great game this thing could fall par you [ __ ] ears yes like a [ __ ] Icarus like it could just burst into flames at the end part and be like absolutely horrible but like even then I'm glad that it [ __ ] at least tried cuz I am just that sick of having these remakes come out that are like half steps between something new and just being the same because it's like first and foremost I'm like if I want to play Final fennec and I try not to I try not to say this in the way that is meant to be like this game cannot this remake cannot be criticized because that's not what I believe I the way that I mean this is in the sense that I can go play the original to see what that was like and consider that its own thing rather than needing it needing this remake to also be the original even though I can still like and I have to like constantly like grapple with the fact that I have friends and colleagues who I sympathize with hard who were like I wanted this game to be one-to-one because I could because I couldn't get into the original and I'm like I I wish for you that you could have gotten the one-to-one remake that would have that you could get over the like combat or whatever was like preventing you from getting into a story that you otherwise like like I sympathize with it but I just it's not what I believe and it's like honestly it's been tough I'm kind of sick of talking about it with random people just because like I have to keep making these concessions and I well I definitely you have to well your mum understand that your rent of like that one to one remake but just with the better graphics and the you know the action based combat I I much prefer this route because I feel like in the message being sent to me at least is they're not trying to invalidate the original I think by doing it in this way it retains the integrity of the original game it's it doesn't come across like they're trying to replace it so while on one hand I do get like wanting that one-to-one remake that just you know so they can get the same experience I gotta say like even if this turns out to be a total train wreck I'm looking forward I'm excited I want us so I want to see because because the train break you get your eyes away from you love seeing your train but I think for me that's kind of the weirdest part of all of this is at the end of the day I'm still kind of on the same emotional wavelength that I went into this thing in the first place with I went into it deeply uncertain deeply skeptical trusting that like it looked good so far and it looked promising and I still think like no more is a good director so like I'm at least curious about everything he puts out but again it is it going to be good in future is it going to completely tank is it going to go horribly wrong are they going to do every bad idea they could have done there's literally no reason for me to believe they will or won't well here's the funny thing is that a lot of people are snow or upset because they think it invalidates or sort of like it changes too much of the original story and I find that a little funny considering that the main plot of that of that whole big twist thing is that the original story is not changed because it already happened well it like the thing it already happened like everything that's going on now from what we can piece together is after Advent Children so that original timeline is still there it already happened well the thing it's not really effective like my big concern and the biggest thing I feel this remake is left behind by a wide margin in the most frustrating and heartbreaking thing I think this remake is left behind is the fact that the original had a very consistent and very centered theme around grief and loss and learning to go so Ryan do you want me to break your mind a little bit from a comment I've seen that raised a really interesting point yeah good so I have another point after this but I really want to bring this up because it's something I've been thinking about that's you know very interesting in that yes it does take away from the the death angle and I I'm of the like thought that it's like I've seen Amara nojima you know right Kingdom Hearts and they seem to have like an adverse fear of killing off characters but in relation to ff7 remake and you know retconning a lot of the deaths that happened is they could potentially be setting up deaths that we don't expect so they have the same impact that they originally had that's entirely possible except they already did a fake out with that so I'm a little skeptical yeah well you know I think is more likely what I think is much more likely is they just don't have any interest in pursuing that thing and that's and that's equally as oh but does that theme originally came out of the that that theme was originally a response by hero wasn't into that that's actually in relation to ff3 last I checked I could be wrong but I say sure though like his mother passed long before that Oh double check but like but like there's I mean there's clean also and also also Nomura I mean the rats death that was Nomura's idea no I think I think what it was wasn't necessarily that she died during that production or anything but rather the idea of the lifestream came from people in the afterlife still being around and protected yeah that by the passing of his mother like definitely there there's a document called an oral history of 597 I highly highly recommend reading that whenever yeah that I thought because like I ever married talks about it there but like that that whole thing is just like a collection of interviews about the development of the original I mean there's no reason it couldn't have like affected both of those games you know that's rare that's an affecting experience but what was it freaking uh and like I I don't want to be like this cynical about it but like I can't help but feel like Nomura and crew looked at that aspect of the game and just went either I'm not comfortable doing this or I don't care to do this and the person who made us do this is no law again Nomura was the one who actually proposed era stuff it was his idea to kill Erath but but what was it that was I mean it was still one of those things that's sucking yeah and off on and it was still and there was still everything else around it in regards to the lifestream and all of that which I'm pretty sure the live stream was sucking dude oh yeah well I got that I just said I just mean that like in relation to killing off a main character it's like that was I don't know that's a lie that that's actually that's actually wrong the original plan was to kill off everybody except your party that you'd parachuted and yes our with yes and then but that really it would that was the original plan they were going to kill every party member except for the three people 2 people ro e that you chose to go into Edgard that's the person that stole this show and was Nomura himself he was he was like he was ya know that that's overkill let's just kill one of them yeah holy [ __ ] like yo like I'm crazy that's way too much he was actually like God imagine a time and place where NASA was like wait did we actually do that and then he was like way I'm starting to remember yeah I think I think we don't give Nomura too much credit sometimes he can't change his thoughts on things because he did go from having his characters where 50 million belts to just maybe two or three I mean like I think people go a little too far with Nomura sometimes like oh yeah yeah he's an easy target that's like ron of a lot of the things that he does but when I see people genuinely saying he's a hack it kind of disheartens me because it kind of undervalues a lot of like the good things that he can do with his like kind of shock value ish like I've heard it described that the way that he writes is like mashing action figures together and that's kind of accurate but I they say it in like a condescending way where I don't think it's like inherently a bad way to approach a story is no guess it's like Platinum Games Platinum Games is basically taking your action figures and matching them together and like anyway they did put the Khmer in Final Fantasy seven which was not written originally the same way the kingdom our triage ins yeah I don't blame people I but I just think goes a little too far some i-i've been holding on it for a while so I wanted to bring it up before I forgot it in relation to talking about the remake and you know it changing and you know the strong feelings people have and you know should it be a one to one or should it not be I think the most interesting thing that this game brings up more or less unintentionally because I've been kind of stewing on this a little bit I think I've already told Ryan about this in a previous thing but when you think about remakes in any other medium you know whether it be books TV movie what-have-you it's typically made by other people it's it's nearly like 99% of the time made by like an entirely different company depending on if it's like copyrighted or not it's like a different rights holder or what have you and it's just kind of accepted that it's like a new version a new reimagining a loose adaptation what have you you know what are they gonna do how are they gonna tweak it you know for a different audience you know what whatever they might do and it's just kind of accepted you'll still do like comparisons to meet Joe black versus the thing it originally was remaking a camera what it's called or like the wax house like it's like you can still do those like oh how well does this do it but it's not like why isn't it exactly like the original why why did they change this it's just I think this would have been better or like I think this thing handled this with better subtlety what have you where the video games there's much higher expectations on keeping faithful because it's typically made by the same developers and in a lot of cases made by this same dev team or very similar to have team so there's very high expectations from fans that are like oh they'll they'll do this justice and they'll protect everything that needs to be protected so I think that can be in its own way kind of stressful for creatives in that way yeah yeah yeah for sure like like that the whole expectation saying is that I think that's the aspect of the whole man a commentary thing that I like the most the idea of these people going and saying okay we have this property that millions of people love that basically put square on the map in the West that basically reinvented JRPGs in the minds of many people and like Dan said earlier the amount of pressure that must have like put Molly must have in their heads it's maddening and so they have this idea to take them their feelings of that matter and turning into a concrete narrative element and at the end of the day whether or not it's good or bad guys like we all said it could easily be complete [ __ ] you have to respect that and some degree whether you hate it or not the idea of taking that raw emotion of how am I gonna be able to live up to these expectations and then put it on screen it's like this is what I was feeling now you get the feel what I'm feeling and isn't that what games are supposed to do at the end of the day make you feel something more often than not so whether or not it's doing something right or wrong or whether or not it goes and of good or bad direction I think it's admirable to at least done that yeah like I definitely respect the artistic risks that are being taken here like if whatever complaints I have about this game I do not think that it's lazy or that they didn't care yeah there was so much love put into this product honestly I kind of I kind of directly sympathized oh yeah because you know I I know that lately a lot of the time I've been saying almost uniformly that like like even in this case like I love what they did with the ending I thought the game was great even in this case someone comes up to me like would you rather they made a new Final Fantasy game with this team or a remake I'd be like make a new one for the love of God don't make the remake cuz I don't believe that check my answer in almost every case like I'm super excited for like this Xenoblade Chronicles definitive edition that's coming out and I think that there are merits to its creation but you come up to me again and you're like would you have this definitive edition or would you have a new Xenoblade game I'd be like new game because I am so disillusioned by this almost paradoxical like people are like it seems like there's the notion that people are sick of remix or they want remakes still and like I can never find out what anybody really wants true fluctuates them you know it really depends on what if you want something new or if we want to keep making the old things as our new things or people don't know what they want I don't know yeah I think that's also that's also I think something this kind of game kind of benefits from is like I don't think people entirely know what they want until they get something maybe they don't want yeah like I didn't know I wanted Rufus Shinra to be the most badass [ __ ] on the planet but I love it cuz in the original yeah he's kind of cool but he's nothing special and then in this game he just comes out looking amazing and having guns to propel him half like sorry the rooftop his trench coat looked like it got through a lawnmower first like I love it it's emotional I looked at that and I was like that is so new Maura I love it and like his you know Dark Star I keep I forgot that the dog's name was dark I like it like oh my life was like that is the most incredible name I like how some people go well you can't really like you don't really know who to blame for what but there's some things you can literally look at and just like laser pointed be like that was nomura though yeah I don't care what you say this was America yeah Russian Murud Rufus was Nomura like both of those guys cuz you could just see the the difference in tone a bit like you can tell it went into that over the top because for the most part the story stays in this sort of balance of cheeky quirkiness and also you know down there are serious tones but once those Maura characters show up things ramp up quite a bit in the tone like Russia's just out of control weird and just even the characters in universe don't want anything to do with him like that's how crazy is and then you have Rufus Shinra just coming out and gliding me around the air with his tool like dual pistols and you know the thought I just I just thought and it's oh no I don't know who this is gonna speak to but just imagine if you put its suno and Nomura in the same room together and told them to make a game oh my god oh my god it'd be terrible but I want it what if Yoko taro no that's too much crazier in some ways I feel like this is a Final Fantasy 7 remake is like a stealth Kingdom Hearts release in the sense that people like at least when general public goes into Kingdom Hearts they know what they are X they know that a weird thing is going to happen a weird thing that's that's hearts but I think that's like a when you buy it all mostly right so for me the Kingdom Hearts people complaining about it is like almost just something people yeah at this point and so I'm like okay so then when this comes out it feels like a stealth Kingdom Hearts release because people didn't expect it to be that but then you take me like you take out like you remove the curtain and there are some elements that people are that people will label KH isms because they're slightly transgressive and strange so I guess in the in a way the like controversial aspects of it are even though I don't think Nomura had everything to do with this game I think they do kind of a little bit too much important Sun wake you know Kojima or like Sakaguchi like these are collaborative works at the end of the day so like wow there is someone in charge you know that doesn't mean that they are solely responsible for every facet of the experience you're right like Toriyama the guy who I think he directed and wrote the xiii trilogy like like if you told me that he was part of the whole alternate timeline universe thing i would not doubt it in the slightest compared to how tend to sorry 10 to 13 - and lightning returns apparently took their story directions like it would not surprise me in the slightest to hear that he had a big input on that but because like glamour i don't want to be that guy but from what I know about Final Fantasy 7 it's like I don't know that the whispers inherently are a thing that people have a problem with like on the face of it more so than it's just different from how it was initially established because from what I understand in Final Fantasy 7 the lifestream is like meant to say that the planet is alive like and do that not also a strange cuz the credit found your staples you read it one of the for reasons people don't like the ghosts aside from like the change in being weird is there kind of frustrating to deal with especially in a fight so there is like other and get the reasons I've seen people not like them is that yeah they're they're not the best thing and they do kind of sometimes lack some subtlety and I think that's tends to be my biggest issue with seven remake is that like know if I if it was me and I know this is kind of nomura like subtlety and him haven't been in the same room for quite a while but yeah I think some things could have like softer touch but you know I I get where they were coming from I certainly do to me cuz like I guess it wasn't as jarring to me cuz even though I haven't finished Final Fantasy 7 I know almost everything about it like I know why cloud has like cloud as mokou poisoning zach was part of his backstory and Sephiroth was part of that and then like all this [ __ ] like I know how it ends I don't like all this [ __ ] and I'm like it didn't like I guess even then it didn't really surprise me the way that the well it surprised me in the sense that I didn't think they would do it but like when I was finished with it I'm like well at least they like I I'm just glad they at least tried to like contextualize it in a way that there there is there is totally in universe justification for these things and it's not as much up no Marissa asses some people want to say it is like Aerith being connected to the planet it's like okay she cetera that's you know a valid excuse for that I still don't entirely know how Sephiroth factors into time-travel shenanigans I'm sure they'll explain that somehow I'm like if I may put my diary up there so at the end of Advent Children he has that one line that basically I'll never be a memory like I will never be a memory like cloud goes like oh hey like you know just stay where you belong in my it's like I will never be a memory kind of hinting at the fact that he will always be within the live stream and if the lifestream according to this game has prompt like ways of being able to manipulate fade in alternate universes or whatever then one can reasonably assume then that means that he can exist in that timeline and that the idea of that sefirot being having children Sephiroth does kind of make sense but again that comes into the question of okay but what did that change like it's just after children Sephiroth but the idea of it being connected to having children like that I think that's pretty there there is definitely valid reasons for why things happen once you kind of you know get over the shock of it it's like okay you can very easily connect the dots and how these works and it's not just finishing when you remember no more Darrell I still love that movie the closure man it's entertaining dialogue it's a yes I didn't watch it's a good way to consume a bowl of Pop yeah no no you gotta watch the English oh you shall we I said that actually that's to be fair are you sure the original Japanese it's it's translated differently like doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo yeah it's it's it's basically some sort of like onomatopoeia I think it is like it's it's not supposed to be a phrase if I remember correctly if blah yeah I feel like you supposed to be condescending later Kenny it's basically just saying pitter patter it's just yeah it's just basically things like that a phrase of like pitter patter let's get at her it's just meant to be like your dilly-dallying let's go like that's I think what's hitting at but it does get a little bit like okay tpho like calm down it just screams utterly 2010 which donut yeah like that's a big part of that I think comes back to the fact that the line reading is an issue no TV no interest wasn't directed well but aren't they the same actors that go and voice them in different games so it's not their phone like definitely not it's definitely the boys I well I will say in relation to I will say in relation to Advent Children something we've kind of skipped over because we've really focused on the ending stuff because that's where the medium in the discussion yeah one thing a lot of people seem to forget about Nomura in terms of a director and again not the only person involved but it is a trademark of his I'd say he's he's really good at cutscene direction specifically when it comes to action yes yes Oh fantastic at that like there are certain like people think that like you know being a director and everything like you have say in all matters but like you said this collaborative fraud you know effort and certain directors are just good at certain things Tarantino is amazing at like writing banter between people and so he's good at being able to direct the seams around his own dialogue I think this came from that um that interview from Metal Gear Solid 2 would like the translator where she basically says that Steven Kubrick was a terrible writer so he just had other people write and work with him as he directed because you got to know your strikes and número strength by far is his cut scene directions and his ability to get raw emotion out of people you just need somebody to come in and like in this case like with fantastic 7 remake having some fantastic dialogue and written scenes in general between the main cast that clearly there was somebody on that project that was you know working with him to flesh out the areas where he wasn't so great also I need to get this out because I can't be the only one that's noticed this did anyone get any Yakuza vibes from this game oh yeah yeah especially I'm like someone played Yakuza like come on that that old dancing man like oh god that guy was a factor that you can just do darts or the push-up minigame or the pull-up the pull-up yeah this is why I mean he gave me do the world own thing yeah squats yeah that's like having played a lot of Chuck so games it's kind of how like you you're going along the main plot and then all of a sudden some someone comes up to you and like hey you want to race mini cars or like do darts that's kind of like why not structurally almost the only the only downside I love it yeah okay sure they're not as good they're not on the same level yeah I'm not saying that is like a like a oh it's not as good as yeah cuz it's just like yeah like if that if like I I would really like this I'd quest to be better but yeah you're not wrong like like Ryan said it's like wall market specifically feels very aku's alike one of the sections one of the added sections is like oh yeah while we wait go to the call see him and fight some dudes yeah yeah they're certain or get a hand like had it been done by the Yaak as a team they would have added more like flourishes to it I guess like the whole thing with like the Angel of the slums like I think I got it I think I got the right and everything that was you know it was alright but like I really feel like if the Yaak is a team had did instead like they would have amped it up a lot more they would have like cranked it up to 11 they would have done something a lot crazier with it but what whatever I I still appreciate it as a fan of the series to see it like this such clear inspiration like it had to be yeah but one thing like if we're talking about things that I feel like they could expand upon one thing that's a bit of an unsung hero in my in my opinion about this whole game is the choices you can make between the characters and the dialogue sections that directly impact certain scenes like depending on who you talk to in the decisions you make with like the flower um talking to Tifa about err like talking to Tifa and vice versa and stuff like that like the person who you talked to an heiress garden is different like you can have heiress who I think most people got because of some of how the choice I got to UM algorithm works most people yeah but you could you can get Tifa and in my opinion as much as I loved the air scene because she tails in like you know like hey don't fall in love with me because she knows what's gonna happen the Tifa scene is by far the best because she just breaks down crying over the sector seven plate and I found that was a great scene and I'm so mad because you could also get berry cutscene is you can also get Ben that cutscene the same thing where it's like a it's hinted at a joy as a dream not sad dream okay yes it's not a dream it's only okay era you know there's the Eragon I heard I was just I didn't even know that that was like a changeable scene I thought that was just like a locked-in no no no I thought it I though you can change it and I figured that out when I was looking up seeing on YouTube and go look up t15 it's genuine America Sarat there - yeah the makeup of your team when you're fighting stuff Roth is different depending on your affinity like your secret affinity with people based on I didn't know that different I thought it was just remember I was watching as I was watching somebody's stream like cuz I was like god I want to see what they think of the ending so I'm watching them stream and then they get a completely different party to fight Sephiroth with new dialogue and I'm like one thing I didn't because the party I had was I had the cloud yeah so did I got era that I'm like okay Barry I got your background so I'm like that I guess that makes sense the three headliners of cloud tea fareth fighting Sephiroth no I got the fun Barrett on on a you know on my playthrough then Eric came in right at play like I was supposedly it's according to like all of these weird decisions that you make that yeah I think it's kind of cool it's very made that way cuz the decisions aren't like it's not like you say yes to somebody or you say like it's like you don't even know that they're happy yeah it's not Mass Effect where you can know where your choices are gonna go it's basically like hey you like you like this girl do you like this girl do you like do you want to do this do you want to do that and then behind the scenes it figures out what your preferences are certain characters and changes the story a bit accommodate that like there isn't there a moment where you're in the sewers and you can choose between Tifa and artha who you wake up yeah you can pick whoever you want to talk to and you'll have a different dialogue depending on who you pick ya fall in the sewers yeah and ten had the same mechanic if I remember correctly yeah but like my biggest thing about that is the reason why I call it sort of like an unsung hero is that I think that may be worth are gonna take the direction of the story if not nothing but where they could take it where people are going saying oh well they can't change the Aerith death scene or whatever and I agree I feel like maybe they shouldn't change it but maybe they could if they did it right but maybe those that element that mechanic will get expanded upon in the sequel and that now that were in completely uncharted territory maybe that mechanic will be a much bigger thing that we think it is and if that's the case that would be fantastic to have everybody's story be on of some level pretty drastically different depending on your choices in the game that you don't even know you're really making that'd be kind of cool unlikely well I guess like water what's everyone's hopes for the next game like what would you ideally like to see or what do you think they're gonna do I'll let the people who play only worse our way through the call yeah I would like the next game to just be Tetsu you know more coming to my house and giving me a thousand dollars like honestly I don't know I genuinely don't know well I think at this point like at this point if they put out a one to one remake of like the thing then yeah cool I'm here for that I be super down for that if they left but if they like curveball it really hard and did something really different and unique and change a ton of Klotz stuff yeah I guess like we've kind of established at this point you know the original is always going to be there so like at this point at this stage I think it's clear that this isn't necessarily a replacement for that it's functionally a new game entirely so if they want to take those swings like ya know go for it oh oh I really ask I guess is that the gold saucer slasher they nailed woolmarket I think they're gonna do that's the one thing I'm really excited for after seeing woolmarket I walked in there and after five minutes I'm going to be like oh they're going to do this to gold saucer oh my god well here's the big thing are they gonna still make you buy GP that's the big question hmm because Final Fantasy 7 machine a bridge like made me laugh so hard about that basically attributing it to like microtransaction where you have to pay money in order to get fake currency to get into what a joke comes full circle and there are actual microtransactions oh shut your mouth no no no one listen to this no no we're not putting out that interview and we're not doing that but like like I really don't know where they're gonna go with the sequel and that oh right and is I'm sorry but oh you have one more thing while I'm thinking about it in the sequel they really need to let's it say [ __ ] yeah you really need that that's my one big gripe with this is this that that's my one gripe I haven't mentioned yet is this game - oddly kind of sanitized in a couple ways hey they let everything yeah that's the best use of cursing in the game but at the same time why doesn't bear it say anything like harsh you know like yeah in the original and here he's not any worse about it than cloud and but and that I'm going to let go cuz Barrett was a bit more borderline but CID is okay goddamn sailor to be you know and the script Barrett was nowhere near the potty-mouthed that he is in the the English translation yeah really yeah that's fair which is one of the reasons why I'm going to get like let that slide a bit more with Barrett specifically but Syd yeah there's no way like I if you've not smoking like a cigar every five seconds and has like no cigars gives me yes that's correct he's not smoking a cigar and just getting a new one every single fight and swearing like a sailor then they drop the ball on that game here's a completely agree with Ryan yeah what I really hope that they do I think that they should change the nature of his relationship with I think it says why his wife yeah it's oh yeah that's something they're gonna happen around yard now that everything is gonna be shown in detail and it's not the extrapolation of the original that's as much as I love the original or at a court that has aged horribly and they need to fix that yeah like I I don't think it necessarily needs to be fixed per se I don't want to defend this too hard for obvious reasons but I think I know where you're going with this and I caught in the same line but but at the same time like I I definitely think he should 100% remain kind of mean kind of dismissive maybe even a little cruel not necessarily a yeah like border but you know you see but more just a shooting as far as Sid is concerned like Shara is someone who cost him his dreams like that's yeah the whole cornerstone of their relationship so like he does still need to treat her be angry at her however I think something that an important distinction is that he needs to realize after the fact not just that he was wrong because he because it was a misunderstanding but also that the way that he had been treating her was wrong he needs to make that realization well I kind of think he does in the original game like when you get up into the rocket to get the huge materia and all of that like in that one coin system explodes next to him that's basically the exact moment he's like oh god I've been just the world's biggest jackass for about a decade what have I done yeah and I think when you're falling back to the planet he kind of have some dialogue that goes there but I think I'm better yeah we're gonna see when we see him actually go to a place where she is yes a moment which doesn't happen which that would have picked Lee right for that's the essence I'd like to see expanded upon yeah yeah okay I guess it's my turn well first I I want them to really delve more into the combat system not necessarily go full action or anything but definitely think about implementing some things that like a jump button you know air can't like air cancer or whatever gives just some things from the action genre just a little bit more not too much to make it a much smoother experience really fix hard mode or at least find something different to do with it other than just taking away your items but in terms of story I think the main thing that I want out of it is for them to just kind of keep going in the direction of the Newman right now where it's this mix of reverence but also understanding that some things need to change and so if certain story beats change like um okay um how you yuffie and Vincent yeah they can't be out of share anymore yeah if they have to put the word because no way yeah exactly exactly like there's no way you can have somebody just go and completely ignore yuffie which always made a weird sense to me why they were so optional considering that they're in almost everything past the original game so if you he's gonna be there you can kind of keep an element of that surprise like she will show up but at what point changes depending on like maybe certain actions or something or where you go first or something if they make it overworld like certain certain things like that like they still keep the overall you know tone and chain of events but they change it up enough for it to feel different and at the end of the day all I really want for them is to keep telling the story that they feel both they and the fans want cuz I feel like that was basically this game in a nutshell it was what do we want but what did the fans want and let's see if we can find something that kind of meshes well with that and I think with the ending minute pretty good so I think that's pretty much what I want okay damn which damn really really confuse and people say that most people call him you can go ahead but having not finished the original there's not like a lot of frame of reference that I have other than what people have told me about how things happen so I guess I'm wondering how they're going to structure the game cuz from what I understand it becomes a lot more open mm-hmm at a certain yeah yeah yeah yeah basically like young whereas is where it opens up yeah I'm not sure like comment like how many resources are they going to put into the head like because people are people are saying like I'll just make it open world but I don't know if you understand like what that means yeah I have been the person that has said over and over among my group of friends that I hate when games go open-world when they don't need to so many of these games could be fixed by having hub worlds or zones final fantasy 12 feels like you're going on a an incredibly long journey and has intricately detailed zones that you go through and even though they're you know sectioned off zone by zone it still feels like you're going through this large area because it's all still connected into one major yeah I've never understood the obsession of taking a game or series or whatever that's typically linear and then saying open-world because most of the time the people who are making the open-world don't have experience with it and they mess it up by putting in pointless side quests or it the world doesn't feel life like you know doesn't have enough life to it and it's really easy to mess up and make it quantity over quality so I'd rather them if they're gonna go with like an overworld thing to kind of make it like it's just traversal and nothing like that I want a hyper-realistic hundred hundred foot cloud and walking around like miniatures of of the towns that's what I want give it to me yeah I'm not joking I want that but it look like maybe just me playing fall fantasy 15 right now and seeing like how janky the open-world segment is compared to the more linear ones later on maybe that's just my opinion being colored but I feel like that would be probably a good idea well I think taking the idea of 15s open-world and kind of refine a bit cuz like 15 has an open world technically like there's definitely some stuff you can find but it's not an open world in the way that like horizon zero dawn is an open world you know most the time you're spending it in the car the car does not go off-road you can't really drive the car traditionally speaking like in the way you could you technique we can once you get those upgrades yeah but let you you the equivalent of that in here would be getting the high wind yeah yeah oh my god do you like how long did it take for them to make that one section of final fantasy 15 and then talk about how big the world of Final Fantasy n is yeah and I have no [ __ ] idea what they're like I don't know that they could even do that yeah I don't know how they'd handle that I just think going to town the town like people decry linear as you know some sort of bad term and I've always defended it because it's not necessarily linearity then you have a problem with what you ever most people have a problem with excuse me most people have a problem it is with not enough variety in when you're going from A to B if there's not enough because fine fancy 10 is Linear's all hell but there's still a lot of things that it makes you do like from swimming sections to blitzball to you know combat exploration there's a lot of things to do as you're going from A to B and the reason why final fantasy xiii was really hated was because literally all it is is walk and fight walk and fight for 40 hours so i-i if they go with a more linear route instead of an open-world one I wouldn't be too mad but I do understand that some people would I just think it's an inevitability like I don't know that it's even possible for them to do open water yeah being completely hampered like so I think they just have to make it a like I can't see like what I can see is them letting you maybe choose which towns to go to but like there's not actually like you just pick which one to go to and they take you there like some like final fantasy on anything it was when you're on the airship and it just gotta play ten so I don't know oh I think I think it's either ten or ten - ten - you go on the airship and then it takes you to the sort of overworld map where it has different locations that you fast travel - yeah I think they would have to do something like that yeah agreed I don't think they'll be able to effectively make a large open world where it's gonna blow your aiming for yeah ff12 or something similar like Dragon Quest 8 where it's it's just gonna be like zones zones are so underrated they are look because like you okay let's take a section like this like you're in a giant forest and multiple zones will each have their own you know distinct elevations and increases and cleanup ways to travel because they're made you know as they're supposed to be one individual area per section of that giant forest and it still feels like a journey because you're still in the forest and by the time you get out of it so it feels that you're going from a long stretch because you see the environment around you changing as you're going from zone to zone so personally I feel zones are underrated and I think that would be a good way to take it yeah I can I get a hundred percent of grid that I think Galvez yeah no I completely would be the best middle ground of like straight linearity and total uncontrolled open world especially if we're gonna go with the level of scale that's been up to like Midgar was not that big compared to what remake is so if we're gonna kind of continue on a similar scaling yeah like Gaia would be too large and to open with not a lot to do because in comparison there's not much I would have to do with star citizen levels of resided random encounters until you get towns yeah the random encounters that really make the overworld like a lot longer than it actually is once you turn that off in like the new remastered versions it really doesn't take too long to traverse the open world yeah exactly it's just finding out where you have to go that's the problem sometimes if if I were to speculate on what's what's to come or what I would like to think see or what I think might be going on is that yeah well we what we said I really have trouble imagining that they're gonna do complete open world and if they do I'm gonna be a little skeptical but I'll go in with an open mindset in terms of like the changes that are gonna happen I don't know if it's gonna be too drastic like they said in interviews it's like we know what you know needs to be protected and you know they you know they understand their game and you know how important it is to people I do hope that they do keep that idea of death and grief as like a core theme but in maybe play around with expectations so it does have that impact that like I said earlier of like oh you thought you know you were so used to being Aerith that you didn't expect you know Tifa dying or something and then maybe we get to see what the character dynamics of grief are when it's a different character yeah like because I think that's one thing this game really did well above everything else like all things considered is it did a really good job with the character dynamics like Tifa or cloudy Barrett's relationship was like I think one of the best parts of this game in terms of if we were talking about what improved from the original because you genuinely get to see Barrett coming around to cloud yeah yeah you definitely see a lot of Barrett's more sentimental side of things because the thing about Barrett is that he is an emotional man he just puts up not a facade but he he over-exaggerates that passion and makes it into this you know big mr. t kind of like speechmaker and both those moments where he's talking to Marlene you know he's at Aris mom's house and just has those really genuine moments really shows he has to be the leader of avalanche so he has to put on his leader face and you know hype everyone up but as soon as he doesn't have exactly I kind of come out of that but he says yeah in terms of like what they can do with that yeah it'll be very interesting because they do seem to generally understand how to handle these characters that's one thing I have absolute complete faith in going from this game into the next is that like okay they understand these characters fairly well I have no doubt about that so it'll be interesting to see maybe how they play around what with that in relation to making changes yeah yeah any other the the old school world map hyper-realistic that's that's what I want just I'm trying to think of it was like anything from the original game that's a little weird like other than you know like the gold toss or and everything on the cold saucer like anything I want to know how they're gonna tackle um oh my god I feel terrible for forgetting dying Barrett's friend the guy dead [ __ ] camera burrs name like how are they gonna tackle that good lesson on the flip side I'm well I really can't wait to see Barrett and his little sailor outfit wait no yeah you read through teen of the sailor l there's some really goofy [ __ ] in this game I want to see a better version of what of the thing they make you do when you're marching oh and Junon oh god I want to loose minigame in a way that doesn't feel weird and yes it is so bad it is such a terrible mini is oh I love I mean I thought it was happening but it was like trying to play that was like what is going well trying to be good at it is impossible it serves its purpose well of making you look like a clumsy dick but like wondering I mean look like like if cloud will be good at that like he's suddenly good at dancing for some reason that was that was genuinely funny if you like I don't I didn't care I didn't care if it made no sense that he knew how to dance I was loved okay like the honeybee section turning it this big cabaret thing was perfect I loved it and but the the rhythm rhythm game portion of it though could I use some way if I could if I can turn off that like part of it and just watch it as a cutscene I'd be totally content with that sure yeah yeah like same here like it's it's a great scene it's a terrible rhythm game it's absolutely awful as a rhythm game the the prompts aren't even on beat it bugs the hell out of me it's not even it's not only that they're not on P said they've usually like obstruct the last set and I get that that's kind of the point with those sorry but it's still you know bad yeah yeah it's da garbage but the the emotions that I felt while playing it like I think my jaw would quit alone I think about a little thing and I was kind of like a like not the greatest way they could have implemented that but I was so like enraptured by the moment that I wasn't even really paying attention to the mini game so I just love when Aerith is you know you I love that the game switches perspectives every now and then like after you get the hand massage oh yeah Aerith and again once you get out of the honeybee Aerith is there trying to talk about he's just like please I don't want to talk about it like okay like yes yes my humor actually landed like it oh yeah f7 was always really funny it was a very yeah a title that doesn't mean that the remake was usually done I thought but they did they did well exactly yeah big caps I'm kind of taking this a little bit from super bunny hop when he talked about Metal Gear Solid 3 is that maybe it's maybe it's just how Westerners view things is that like there seems to be this thing where like camp can't work in relation to drama and like I think that's kind of where seven really benefits is like it has campy moments that are funny but it equally pays that off with like really you know traumatic scenes that are very impactful and I think you know remake actually does a really decent job of capturing that mentality of like oh yeah like you know sector seven just fell down hours after we had a fun little experience in wall market and it did a really good job of keeping those two tones together if that makes sense yeah yeah no I agree because camp makes you usually endeared to the characters more and if you're more endeared to the characters and you care about them more when something bad happens so using camped elevate the character interactions and your admiration of them is a decent way of making sure that you care yeah and then in a way and this is what I actually I think I'm gonna more or less take from George's that like I think camp kind of like brings your defenses down a little bit at the same time like it almost kind like puts you at use and then when it wants to go for the like gut punch it then it can yeah yeah it definitely works like that like Mogis all three have so many gut plunges especially the final scene that it's like yeah it was like that I hope in the next game that is something that I'm sure they'll keep in mind you know have the fun stuff at gold saucer and then in eally juxtapose it with like Barrett's backstory yeah agree now that would be a probably good way to do it especially if they keep since they have the choices of the different girls and you're talking would they keep the other dating the data I mean where you get to go on a date with the other d4 errors also I want better control I know I know this is more or less just how the game work in this case I'm sure it'll be in the next one I really hope I can actually pick my party in the next one yeah that's what I mean I I just there there's the car always had like way more sections where the party was naturally split up but like from here on out it's pretty uniform or at least it should be unless I radically yeah there's a couple times where it's like I Barrett sorry dude 10 min you know I had a couple moments like that but I was like ahead just how the game is whatever the game just chooses for you the entire time which was a little weird but it wasn't a big deal most most the time most the time it did justify it so I wasn't too bothered by yeah I think the only part were they kind of it was like a false choice was when you're in Hodos lab and you have to switch between the two characters like they give you the ability that yeah which but you you had to do it but it's like you really only need them exactly you only you have to do at a specific point so it wasn't really a choice per se so I don't know why they just didn't make that a one-time switch and then make you wait I guess I can tell I guess they just wanted to get like in case there were stuff that you wanted to get before you made the switch I don't know yeah I can see that yeah total lab was like you know that isn't even just it wasn't so bad at the beginning but then by the end is just like dude I think like Hojo's lab mathematic of like a greater issue of the game of this need to make Midgar feel like a more quote like complete experience and they just like bloat the game with a bunch of [ __ ] yeah all the time and that's just one where they do still hit that well what what yeah the one thing I came up against though because that was one of my original complaints as well but the thing that clicked with me is like okay the stuff that we would probably count as bloat as padding is probably the train graveyard probably to some extent the sewers and probably hojae's lab you know what all three of those have in common they're one of the few levels where you get to play with Erath on your team without those there would own if you remove like there's only five chapters in total where you can play with Aerith as like a proper party member so removing or trimming any one of those means you now have substantially less time yeah that's entirely sure that's okay enough yeah yeah again it was one of those it was a complaint I totally had but once that clicked I was like okay I'm not a huge fan of it but okay but then what else are you the train graveyard I've been a big sorry good oh yeah the Train grave the train graveyard is fine up to a point once Aerith has that weird vision where she's being surrounded and she sees herself the kid crying that thought it ended and it just that going and I was like okay why that's where I thought it was gonna end like I didn't mind it problem with it if they had tweaked it so that I think the major problem for me is that they really should not have learned about the plate falling before that I I heard like I know that's how it happens in the original but like if they were going to put the train graveyard in they really should have had them learn about the plate fault yeah you know I think what to be like what would the point of like going to dawn corny Oh be in the first place then but here's the thing did he specifically say and this is not me defending it but it's more of like just trying to see from the other side did he specifically say when they were I know what you're gonna say they do have like a flimsy justification I knew it I see but at the same time like it's more because we know in the original game that the plates gonna fall also you also get play or not seen while you're in the ghost train you heard or like leading up to it you see the like fight going on so you the player know what's happened yeah that that's where I was gonna go to yeah that is when it should have been like okay like don't show the helicopters and everything going towards the pillar until about maybe halfway or 3/4 of the way through that is you know what that you know what they kept trying you know what hey make the ghost train yard sequence aside yes or at least up till that error like if they want to make the algarve just section of it yeah as I say eligor would be he should be optional especially since he wasn't even like an enemy in the original you know I think I'm pretty sure even I can think of thing he's like a secret thingy fight I like I genuinely can't remember I could be wrong I remember someone telling me that he's yeah I don't remember but I think all of instant senator I think we all pretty much it's an even if we have some things that were kind of mixed up or we could take I think we all genuinely had a positive experience or even a greeting oh yeah yeah no I I absolutely loved it overall like like we can sit here in nitpick all day and like there's definitely some legitimate grievances to be had but overall like anyone who looks at this and sees anything other than a brilliantly crafted labor of love that a lot of people clearly invested huge amounts of time and effort into like they're not seeing the same thing I'm saying yeah yeah yeah same here yeah there's no way in hell you can like tell me that this was not a labor of love right like I said I will accept a lot of critiques about this game but the - I will not is that it was lazy and generate and I detest that criticism like when when people try to make that assumption about other Creators saying that they were lazy I [ __ ] hate that people you get it more often than you comes from people that yeah really create themselves and not to me not to be like shitty and be like they don't understand we're all creators so we know but like typically the people that don't really understand what goes into even making a game and yeah it's just like a knee-jerk reaction they're angry so they want to yeah people you know and I totally blame I totally understand feeling burned and you know wanting to lash out but that doesn't mean you know the people that worked on it on such a level that you can accuse them of being lazy like that's just a completely unfair a Schmitt assessment on your part like yeah it's so you like and it also comes from yeah yeah not even knowing not even having basic knowledge of just how much work that goes into making a game making games making even a bad game is hard work so yeah just people people please don't say things like that you know no really don't understand what you're saying when yeah and do that yeah it's like when when you see a bad movie or something you know having worked on film sets I was like you don't see the amount of hours that like the grips or the or you know any of the camera operators are busting their asses for to see a product that goes on screen that could end up being a good piece it takes hours it takes what they still put in the lighting right of a single shot oh my god it takes hours to set it off they take everything out of the truck and set it up get it ready for the shoe and then you could only get like just a couple of shots and then you're done for the day and have to put everything right back in that truck like that takes so much effort and it could be all for nothing so when people say that a game development studio certain thing is lazy yeah I'm right there with you I'd say they phone it in like a they kind of phoned it in on this section or you know they you know this part slips a little bit but like just throwing them under the under the you know bus especially if you haven't played it if you're just making me jerk reactions yeah that I don't know how much I can give you on that yeah do you want to do you want us if you want to send us home that that's like my ethos my ethos is that people should stop using the word like I think lazy is a word that is like I don't want to say that you should never use it but like it's it's a it's an ironic I try not to use it much ever because whenever I try like if I were to ever try to put that word into a critical thing I'd be like I don't know if this is what I mean when I say lazy like that's even what I'm trying to say there's often there's often better like I think it's a word that has its like I think it's a word that has its uses depending on the context without question but like why should our gonna think of like like critiquing terms that are like both more overused yeah and more poorly used more often than not it's funny but the word lazy is that saying something as lazy is itself kind of lazy yeah yeah oh no may be overrated is kind of that that's up there you yeah like it's overrated like isn't that just I don't know your opinion man that's just you can't the outside context more than the thing itself yeah if there's anything that I personally learned over the last year or so is basically like look at the end of the day just what whatever the internet says doesn't matter like in terms of how you feel about something recognize the flaws are point out like the good things and try to understand the opposite side of things but at the end of the day it's your opinion that matters and how you feel about a product yeah I don't know man you gotta you gotta pick your side on the war yeah you guys wanna see what I got oh yeah for real which way do you feel about Final Fantasy 7 remake good or bad isn't that the best question to be asked by somebody yeah as as they as the language of a person I'm like bad it's like well but you tell them like well but actually you know this is kind of complicated no if you say those two words well actually you immediately get a [ __ ] you know shot in your face just like like no well actually you just have to do it like aside no no gray area what I will say it to end this is to just try to understand people yeah yeah this is what I've learned through this is that there is not enough understanding going around slate nothing Charlie Booker said it best or it's like remember when everything on the internet was me I kind of get worried the general indifference yeah right oh god that's a discussion for say this thing was a thing that was meant to be who's never meant to not be divisive there's always going to be and the least we could do is just understand when people do or don't like it SC I'd have limped like this will probably be like the last major kind of discussion I have about this game yeah same here we have been going for yeah we could go out for a while yeah but it was a good discussion in the West everything out of the way I just have other Final Fantasy games to play yeah I need to beat 15 and get this strangled and do something different and play Silent Hill I like blacks play more Final Fantasy Hey look when I go into something I go like into that subject hard I don't have hobbies I have temporary oh do you fam yeah well I guess that's it okay I mean I guess that's it really 587 is good go by yep total shilpi is for it provided by playstation 10 out of 10 it's okay

Channel: KingK

Views: 96,647

Rating: 4.7077332 out of 5

Keywords: KingK, Core Ideas, Foxcade, Codex Entry, Daniel Santos, Final Fantasy VII Remake, Review, Retrospective, Critique, Commentary, Discussion

Id: gGJ2GKhqS0I

Length: 204min 20sec (12260 seconds)

Published: Fri May 01 2020