Father VS Dante - Analyzing the Villains of Fullmetal Alchemist

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I'm a fan of Dante, so I'll have to check this out. Thanks!

👍︎︎ 6 👤︎︎ u/8zuri 📅︎︎ Aug 09 2020 🗫︎ replies

No one gonna talk about Dante's face in the thumbnail?

👍︎︎ 3 👤︎︎ u/[deleted] 📅︎︎ Aug 11 2020 🗫︎ replies
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In Fullmetal Alchemist 2003, Father goes out  to get milk and a pack of cigarettes and never   comes back. Actually, he never even shows up in  the first place. Which leaves us with Dante as   a villain. In mangahood, meanwhile, Father is the  primary antagonist. Many people have debated about   which villain is better. Despite the title of this  video, I’m not really joining in on that debate.   Why? Well, because my opinion is about as  boring as it can get: they're both equally   fine. (crowd booing) Sometimes sitting on the  fence hurts my butt, but that's just how I feel.   Either way, I want to discuss these characters.  Their personalities, weaknesses, and deaths do   a good job of reflecting the overall themes of  their respective series, so let's start with Father, above all else, is prideful. The fact  that he attempts to remove his human vices does   nothing to change that. By extension, he's selfish  and thinks incredibly little of humans. In fact,   he tends to view homunculi and humans alike as  pawns. If they don't serve some purpose to him,   well, then they can be disposed of. As Father says  when Ed pleads with him to heal Ling’s injury,   “He’s useless to ME.” He he also compares  humans to insects, stating that they're   so beneath him that it's impossible to  care about them one way or the other.   Basically, he's so far above these humans that he  views them as a waste of his thoughts and energy,   even if some of them are  instrumental to his plans. Here, however, his biggest weakness becomes clear:  He's way too self-centered. As such, he views   humans in an oversimplified way. By extension, he  thinks that the emotions he's supposedly expelled   from himself are hindrances. As Greed's character  change and motivation show us, this is a massive   mistake. In the end, because he's so confident  that he can predict Greed's every action,   he doesn't predict Greed's act of self-sacrifice.  Of course, Greed’s sacrifice is a very important   part of his demise. Without that happening,  he might have succeeded on some level. Similarly, he lets all these  humans roam around: Hohenheim, Ed,   Al, Izumi, and Mustang. Even though he could  have found a better way to deal with them,   he viewed them as so fundamentally flawed - as  so much weaker than himself - that he thought   there was no way they could come up with a  plan to thwart him. As such, when Bradley's   wife gets kidnapped, he fails to understand  that even though she doesn't matter to him,   she does matter to someone, so she still  has an effect on him and his plans.   He's unable to take another person's position  and understand it, and that's his greatest   weakness. In essence, he fails to see the bigger  picture. He only sees the one and not the all. As you might expect, this desire and position  clashes with Ed's own experience and his   realization that he's nothing more than an  ordinary human. Learning that is part of   coming to understand the meaning that “one is  all and all is one.” Understanding that is key   to Ed's journey and just the opposite is key to  Father's journey, too. Because he never learns   the meaning of that phrase. Much like Father  Cornello in the very first chapter of the manga,   Father attempts to become something he isn't.  And where Father Cornello manipulates people into   seeing him as a god, Father manipulates people  in his quest to consume God. He does this with   the homunculi, humans, and souls swirling inside  him. Father may be able to see that “for every   human who dares challenge the natural order, a  fitting punishment is meted out to put them in   their place,” but he fails to make one final,  essential step. He fails to apply that rule   to himself. For that reason, the Truth punishes  him, trapping him within the gate, consuming him. So why is Father like this?  Well, a chapter of the manga   and about two-thirds of an episode of  Brotherhood are dedicated to that. Here,   we're shown Hohenheim's flashback of  his life as a slave and, eventually,   an alchemist in Xerxes. It's revealed that  Father is a product of an alchemist's experiment.   As a result, he's trapped in this flask.  Physically, he's a weak, limited creature. The root of Father's desire is understandable:  He doesn't want to be trapped, and who can blame   him? He was trapped in that flask for a long  time, unable to properly move in the world,   to have autonomy. However, getting out of the  flask doesn't heal him. No, he needs more. To him,   any limitation is a curse, any boundary is  meant to be broken. He's willing to wipe   out everyone - everything - just to transcend  what he sees as an overly limited existence.   Of course, though this limits him, the truth is  that this is not the source of his mental torment.   What torments him is his mindset, is his  focus on his limits instead of his abilities. One big question starts to get explored here,  though: Is there another side to Father?   Is there something to him beyond  this desire to rise above the Truth,   to become the one who consumed the all.  On the surface, Father doesn't seem to   understand Hohenheim's desire to have a family.  However, he chooses to give Hohenheim half of the   souls he gets from the people in Xerxes  to also make him a philosopher's stone. As far as I can tell, there are two main reasons  he might have done this: First, maybe he already   planned this whole thing out. Maybe he already  decided to use Hohenheim as a sacrifice at that   point. This way, granting him an extended lifespan  is a way to guarantee that he'll still be around   when Father's plan finally comes to fruition,  that he’ll still be a viable human sacrifice. But the other option is that he didn't  already have this plan, and that he's   telling the truth when he says that he's done  this to “thank Hoheneheim for his blood.”   If that is the case, then Hohenheim  might not be so wrong when he later   asserts that “Father just  wanted a family of his own.” Unfortunately, this potential internal conflict  for Father isn't really explored beyond that.   Still, it gives him a bit of depth he otherwise  wouldn't have. Even if he isn't as interesting   as some of the homunculi - Greed and  Wrath in particular come to mind - he   still functions well as the big bad, as the man  manipulating everything from behind the curtain. Dante has many similarities to Father. She has  large aspirations. She has an immense amount of   pride in herself. Her failure to understand her  own limitations, the homunculi’s motivations,   and other humans abilities leads  to her downfall. After all,   when her new bodies are  decaying faster and faster,   she simply tries to get another philosopher's  stone made so she can switch bodies again.   She believes she's above other people, that the  rules of the world do not apply to her. Similarly,   the fact that she underestimates the homunculi,  that she lies to them and has no intention of   making them human (whatever that means) leads  to homunculi like Lust turning against her.   Eventually, homunculi stop being useful to her,  and she even alters Gluttony's personality because   he's depressed about Lust’s death. This, of  course, leads to her own death. On top of that,   other people joining forces, like Mustang and Ed,  creates a situation where she can be defeated. However Dante's relationship to Ed and Al  is more personal than Father's. She needs to   manipulate them throughout their journey so that  they'll create a philosopher's stone for her.   Meanwhile, Father just needs to keep most of  his human sacrifices alive. In order to get   the homunculi to work for her, she lies to them,  raises them from their malformed states, and feeds   them pieces of the philosopher's stones. After  that, she uses these homunculi to manipulate Ed.   Though Father also uses the homunculi to  keep tabs on all his human sacrifices,   Dante makes this more personal by even  using the homunculus that Ed and Al created.   Though she doesn't believe in equivalent  exchange, she reinforces their belief in it.   This way, she hopes that they will continue  to try to get their bodies back. In turn,   they may eventually create a philosopher's stone.  Unlike Father, she seems to go after Ed and Al,   at least in part, because of a vendetta.  Though Father knows Hohenheim, that's not   the reason why Ed and Al are human sacrifices -  that's just a coincidence. However, Dante hates   Hohenheim because he left her for another woman  and turned his back on their ideals. So she has   a reason to hurt Ed and Al now that goes beyond  getting immortality. She can get back at her   ex-lover. Besides, she wants to get it on with  Ed, which is uh, you know, uh, uncomfortable and   unfortunate and all sorts of bad things, but  - but she wants it. (L I C K I N G sound) But, unlike Father, she has strong opinions  about humans that she's willing to voice,   and she sees them as fools. When Izumi  asks if she likes them, she simply says,   “How could I like them? They are selfish. They  learn how to use a little gunpowder and there   is nothing but war. If they were to learn all  the secrets of alchemy, how much calamity do   you think would come about?” Here, we're also  introduced to another one of her motivations.   She wants to become immortal because she wants  to protect the world and keep humans from doing   anything foolish with the philosopher's stone. Of  course, this is incredibly hypocritical. I mean,   she's been the cause of widespread war and  destruction and death, but in her mind,   her means are justified. She's convinced  herself that, in some weird, twisted way,   she's doing the right thing. So yeah, sure,  horrible things are happening, but they're less   horrible than what would happen if she weren't  around. From an outside perspective, it's easy   to see how ridiculous this line of reasoning  is, but to her, it's an irrevocable truth. Overall, Dante sees herself as above other  people. In fact, she doesn't even consider   herself a human. After all, when she tells Ed  this whole thing about protecting the world, he   tells her to “cut the crap,” that “she is human,  too.” But she replies by saying, “Not anymore.”   Again this is much like Father, but where Father  seeks to consume human souls and use their energy   to even consume the Truth, Dante claims that  she's protecting people from their own stupidity.   In the end though, it seems clear that they both  just want to transcend their own limitations. Much like Father, she stands in opposition to  Ed and Al’s ideals, too: Specifically, to their   belief in equivalent exchange. This is something  I’ll go into more detail about in a future video,   but I want to discuss it a bit here.  Basically, she thinks equivalent exchange   is a lie made to comfort weak people, to make  them feel like the world is fair. Of course,   this means that she thinks that if  she's smart enough and strong enough,   she can take however much she wants from others  without consequence. At least on that level, she's   wrong. She can't achieve immortality, regardless  of whether equivalent exchange is true or not. In my opinion, one of the most important  differences between Father and Dante is their   backstory. Through a flashback, we get to see  some of Father, but the same isn't true for Dante.   Sure, this sequence is fantastic - one  of my favorite moments aesthetically in   the whole show - but it's still Dante saying  what she thinks about herself and her past.   We never get beyond that facade. We never get  to see her past actions from a different angle. Now, of course, it's not necessary to see that.  It's not necessary to have her backstory shown   through a flashback. But I think that would  have been great. I mean, imagine an episode   where we get to see her and Hohenehim together,  trying to create a philosopher's stone during the   black plague. It would have added a lot  to both hers and Hohenheim's character.   There we could have seen who they were before.  We could see what exactly drove them to create   the philosopher's stone. We could see what  moment led to their separation. I think that   detour from the central plot of the story would  have been well worthwhile if handled correctly,   and would have made Dante a far more  compelling villain than she currently is. Even so, like Father, I find  her to be a functional villain.   She’s also not as compelling as  many of the homunculi, but she works   because her viewpoint and actions  counter Ed's, pushing him as a character.   Though she herself might not seem interesting,  she makes Ed far more interesting.   By extension, she makes the moral landscape of  2003 more complex and that's good enough for me.
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Channel: Lowart
Views: 647,643
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Keywords: dante vs father, father vs dante, fullmetal alchemist vs fullmetal alchemist brotherhood, analyzing every homunculus, analyzing every homunculi, fma vs fma brotherhood, fma vs broho, fullmetal alchemsit vs brotherhood, fullmetal alchemist vs broho, full metal alchemist, fullmetal alchemist manga, fma vs fma:b, fma manga vs anime, fullmetal alchemist manga vs anime, fullmetal alchemist villains, father analysis, dante analysis, father fullmetal alchemist, fma father
Id: mgNe1F_ydHE
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Length: 11min 23sec (683 seconds)
Published: Sat Aug 08 2020
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