[MUSIC] >> Doug: HI, I'M DOUG KECK AND THIS IS "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" AT THE BUSY INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON WHERE WE GET TOGETHER EACH WEEK WITH FATHER SPITZER, ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS THAT YOU SEND US VIA EMAIL, FACEBOOK, AND TWITTER. FOR INFORMATION ON FATHER SPITZER, GO TO THE magiscenter.com AND ALSO, OF COURSE, crediblecatholic.com. THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE TEACHING TOOL THAT WE USE ON THIS SHOW AND CONTINUE TO USE. TODAY, DISCUSSION OF A CATHOLIC CONSCIENCE AND HOW IT RELATES TO THE IMMORALITY OF ABORTION. THE BOOK OF THE MONTH, A CRISIS IN CULTURE: HOW SECULARISM IS BECOMING A RELIGION FATHER GEORGE RUTLER IF WE DIDN'T SEE IT BEFORE, WE CERTAINLY SEE IT NOW. AND WE TURN TO THE WEST COAST, TO LOOK FOR OUR GREAT FRIEND, FATHER SPITZER FATHER SPITZER, HIS UNIVERSE AND CAN IF YOU WOULD AT THIS PARTICULAR IT OFF WITH A PRAYER, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. >> Father: YOU BET. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT, HEAVENLY FATHER WE GIVE YOU THANKS FOR ALL YOUR BLESSINGS. WE ASK YOU THIS DAY TO BLESS OUR COUNTRY, OUR CULTURE AND PLEASE, PROTECT OUR FAMILIES IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF THE CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES. PLEASE SEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT DOWN UPON DOUG, MYSELF, AND THE WHOLE AUDIENCE THIS DAY SO THAT WHATEVER WE DO WOULD BE BROUGHT TO FRUITION FOR YOUR WILL, FOR THE GOOD OF THE CHURCH, YOUR KINGDOM AND YOUR WILL, AND WE ASK THIS THROUGH YOU AND MARY, SEAT OF WISDOM AND SAINT CALLISTUS, PRAY FOR US. AMEN. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. >> Doug: WE HOPE YOU ARE WELL. CALIFORNIA IS ONE OF THE MORE LOCK-DOWN STATES. SO WE KNOW THAT YOU TAKE AN INTEREST IN WHAT'S GOING ON. AND DOCTOR NABARRO FROM THE -- WELL, HE SAID MAKING POOR PEOPLE AN AWFUL LOT POORER AND ACCORDING TO DOCTOR STATED THAT THE LOCKDOWN IS TO REGROUP, BALANCE YOUR RESOURCE, PROTECT HELT WORKERS EXHAUSTED. BUT BY AND LARGE WE WOULD RATHER NOT DO IT. BUT KIND OF INTERESTING FOR THE CALLS FOR LOCKDOWNS. AND I THINK THEY ARE STARTING TO LOOK AT THE RECENT HISTORY AND IT HASN'T WORKED QUITE THE WAY PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WOULD. >> Father: WEAPON, IT'S ABOUT TIME SOMEBODY SAID SOMETHING FROM THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION THAT ACTUALLY SAYS THAT THIS HAS VERY LIMITED VALUE AND A VERY PROTRACTED AND VERY NEGATIVE ECONOMIC EFFECT ON NOT ONLY OUR COUNTRY BUT ON THE WHOLE WORLD. SO, I'M SO GLAD THAT PEOPLE ARE FINALLY NOT ONLY ADMITTING THAT THIS THING WAS, I THINK, A GIGANTIC, MISTAKE, AT LEAST ON A PROTRACTED LEVEL AS THE DOCTOR IS SAYING, ON THIS PARTICULAR PASSAGE. BUT I THINK MAYBE ALSO HELP US NOW TO GET OUT OF THE LOCKDOWN AND SIMPLY, SOME OF THESE RESTRICTIONS ARE OVER THE TOP. RELOCKING DOWN ECONOMICS AGAIN AND AGAIN. OBVIOUSLY, IT HAS LIMITED VALUE BECAUSE AS THE WHOLE ECONOMY HAS BEEN STARTING UP, YES, LITTLE SPIKES, IN THE NUMBER OF COVID CASES BUT IN GENERAL, THE DEATH RATE CONTINUES TO PLUMMET AND I'M SITTING HERE SCRATCHING MY HEAD. WHY ARE WE DOING THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN. SO, I'M HAPPY THAT THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION IS ADMITTING THIS. MAYBE IT WILL BE WILLING A LITTLE BIT TO HELP REDRESS THE PROBLEMS WE'VE ALREADY CAUSED TO THE ECONOMY AND MAYBE EXERT THEIR INFLUENCE A LITTLE MORE ACROSS THE WORLD TO RESTART THINGS SO THAT POOR PEOPLE WON'T GET POORER. EXCELLENTLY STATED. >> AND RECENTLY A CDC STUDY QUESTIONED HOW PROTECTIVE MASKS ARE. WITH THESE KIND OF THINGS ARE, IN THE CAVEAT, LISTEN UP, IF YOU ARE IN THE HIGH RISK GROUP MAYBE THAT'S GOOD FOR YOU AND MASK WEARING IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING YOU SHOULD DO AND MAKE THE EFFORT TO PROTECT TO HELP OTHERS, SO THOSE ARE GOOD THINGS AND AT THE SAME TIME THEY ARE NOT SAYING YOU SHOULDN'T TAKE PRECAUTIONS AND SOCIAL DISTANCING, RIGHT? >> SURE. ABS LUTHLY. AND WE SHOULD ALL TAKE PRECAUTIONS FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN VULNERABLE SITUATION, NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. HOWEVER, I DO THINK THAT A PROTRACTED LOCKDOWNS AS THE WHO HAS JUST ADMITTED, HAVE LIMITED VALUE AND THE NEGATIVE CONVERCONSEQUENCES ARE EXTREME. >> IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THIS IS SO MUCH WHAT YOU SEE IN OUR FAITH WHERE PEOPLE SAY, WELL, I'M GOING TO DO THIS ONE THING. THIS IS A GOOD THING AND THEY DON'T LOOK AT HOW THAT THING IMPACTS OTHER THINGS. YOU CAN'T JUST SAY, FOCUS ON THE HEALTH OF AN INDIVIDUAL IN THE SENSE OF A DISEASE WITHOUT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT ALL OF THE OTHER REPERCUSSIONS THAT IT HAS ON SOCIETY AND OTHER PEOPLE, RIGHT? >> Father: OH, YEAH, SEVERAL PEOPLE, I THINK INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT, SAID AT ONE POINT, YOU GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CURE IS NOT FAR WORSE THAN THE DISEASE. AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FINALLY BEGINNING TO SEE PERHAPS IT WAS. AND NOW, IT'S TIME TO LET UP, REVERSE THE STRATEGY THAT'S NOT WORKING. YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE THE OLD GETSIEST BURG PICKET CHARGE AFTER THE FIRST HOUR AND A HALF, 4,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CUT DOWN, YOU KIND OF SAY, H-MM. I WONDER IF WE OUGHT TO CHANGE THIS STRATEGY BEFORE WE CAUSE MOUNDS AND MOUNDS OF ADDITIONAL PEOPLE TO DIE. BUT YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES PEOPLE JUST GO AHEAD WITH IT. I THINK THIS IS A GOOD IMPETUS TO START RECONSIDERING WHETHER THIS THING HAS A TRUE VALUE. I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. ANYBODY IN A VULNERABLE POPULATION OR IF THESE PEOPLE IN A VULNERABLE POPULATION WHO ARE LIVING WITH THEM, THEY HAVE TO TAKE THE EXTRA PRECAUTIONS. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT BECAUSE COVID-19 COULD BE VERY DEADLY FOR THEM. BUT HOWEVER, THINK THAT ALLOWING THE ECONOMY TO OPEN UP AND TO, YOU KNOW, MOVE OUT OF A LOCKDOWN SITUATION, KEEP THE PRUDENT SOCIAL DISTANCING GOING AND OTHER PRECAUTIONS. THAT'S THE WAY TO PROCEED, MUCH MORE THAN JUST AN UNNECESSARILY HAMSTRINGING EVERYBODY AND MAKING POOR PEOPLE POORER. >> AND WHEN YOU COME OUT WITH STATEMENTS THAT SEEM A LITTLE BIT ABSURD, WHEN YOU ARE OUT EATING WITH YOUR FAMILY, YOU SHOULD KEEP YOUR MASK ON IN BETWEEN BITES. I MEAN, THAT REALLY STRETCHES CREDULITY. AND IT MAKES YOU THINK ABOUT THE UNDERLYING THOUGHT PROCESSES BEHIND IT FROM THE BEGINNING. NOW, LOTS GOING ON. AMY CONEY BARRETT HAS BEEN IN FRONT OF THE SENATE. I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY THAT WOULDN'T SEE HER AS A WONDERFUL EXEMPLAR THAT WE WOULD LOVE, ANYBODY WE KNOW, OUR MOTHER, SISTER, DAUGHTER TO BE, IN ALL OF THE THINGS SHE HAS DONE. AND MEANWHILE, YOU ARE GETTING THE ATTACKS BECAUSE OF A BIG CONCERN ABOUT ROE V. WADE. IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE ONE OF THE CANDIDATES WHO IS A CATHOLIC INDICATED WHEN HE WAS ASKED WHETHER IN FACT ROE V. WADE WAS OVERTURNED, PERHAPS IN THE FUTURE WITH JUDGE BARRETT OR JUSTICE BARRETT BEING ON THE COURT, WHAT WOULD BE HIS RESPONSE. AND HE SAID, THE ONLY RESPONSE IN RESPONSE TO THAT WOULD BE TO PASS LEGISLATION MAKING ROH, THE LAW OF THE LAND. THIS THAT IS WHAT I WOULD DO. ROE THE LAW OF THE LAND. SO, WE HAVE TO DO IT WHERE IT WOULD BE A SITUATION THAT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE LAW OF THE LAND OF THE SUPREME COURT, BUT HE WOULD MAKE IT THE LAW OF THE LAND ANY WAY. THAT SEEMS A LITTLE PROBLEMATIC. >> Father: YEAH, FULLY 50% OF THE STATES OF THE UNION WOULDN'T WANT THAT. ONCE AGAIN, YOU IMPOSE THE FEDERAL WILL, JUST AS THE SUPREME COURT IMPOSED ITSELF ON THE STATES WHO REALLY PROPERLY HAVE THE JURISDICTION IN THIS AREA, FROM A LEGAL POINT OF VIEW. FROM A MORAL POINT OF VIEW, ALSO, PRETTY CLEAR THAT ABORTION THE KILLING OF AN INNOCENT AND NOT PERMITTED. IT'S THE VIOLATION OF THE ALIENATION OF RIGHTS OF AN PNT PERSON. IT EXISTS BECAUSE IN VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THEY ARE A HUMAN BEING. THE WHOLE THING IS AN ATROCITY FROM THE START TO THE FINISH. FROM THE KILLING TAKING PLACE AND ALL THE WAY TO THE VIOLATION OF AN INALIENABLE RIGHTS, FROM THE AWFUL RATIONALIZATION -- OR ATTEMPTED RATIONALIZATION FROM THE SUPREME COURT AND OTHER DECISION THAT IS HAVE COMPOUNDED THE HARM FROM ROE V. WADE TO THE LEGAL SYSTEM AND THE CULTURE. SO, THINK, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WELL, THAT PARTICULAR PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IS DEAD WRONG. AND FRANKLY, IT'S JUST UNBELIEVABLE THAT HE WOULD IMPOSE THAT JUDGMENT ON PEOPLE. ON THE OTHER HAND, I WOULD SAY, IF YOU ARE SO INTERESTED AND AND WANT TO CONTINUE THE KILLING OF ALL THESE BABIES, PERHAPS THAT OPINION SHOULD BE OVERRULED FORMALLY BY FEDERAL LAW ALSO. SO, THAT WOULD BE MY VIEW. LET'S HAVE SOME KIND OF A MORALLY BASED FEDERAL LAW. >> RIGHT. AND ESPECIALLY, COMING FROM SOMEBODY WHO IS PROFESSING A CATHOLIC PERSPECTIVE AND IMPACTING THEIR VIEW ON SOCIETY. IF THAT'S TRUE, THEN WE HAVE BIGGER PROBLEMS IN THE CHURCH. SO LET'S GET TO QUESTIONS FOR YOU, FATHER SPITZER. FROM THE AUDIENCE, HERE'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION THAT A PERSON BRINGS FORWARD. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I UNDERSTAND WHY THE CHURCH MUST GET INVOLVED IN POLITICS BECAUSE OF MORALITY. AND I UNDERSTAND THE HIERARCHY OF MORALITY. BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY ABORTION IS SUCH A GREAT EVIL. FETUSES HAVE SOULS THAT CANNOT DIE. WHEN THEIR BODIES DIE THEY GO RIGHT TO HEAVEN. THEIR SUFFERING IS MINIMAL WHEN COMPARED TO THE SUFFERING OF THE POOR AND MARGINALIZED. AM I WRONG IN MY THINKING? I HAVE A SENSE, YES. >> Father: YES, I'M AFRAID YOU ARE VERY WRONG IN YOUR THINKING FOR TWO REASONS. I'M SAYING THIS RESPECTFULLY. BUT FIRST OF ALL, DO NOT MINIMIZE THE SUFFERING OF THAT POOR, PREBORN, INNOCENT HUMAN BEING. THAT'S THE FIRST THING. THEY DO FEEL PAIN, VERY MUCH. AND IF YOU HAVE SEEN ANY KIND OF FOOTAGE OF AN ABORTION SEEING, FOR EXAMPLE, SEEING WHAT ABBY JOHNSON SAW, THIS LITTLE BABY TRYING TO ESCAPE FROM THE CLUTCHES OF THIS PERSON AS HE WAS LITERALLY BEING DISMEMBERED. ONLY AT THE END OF HAVING HIS LIMBS TORN OFF AND HAVING HIS HEAD CRUSHED. WHAT? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? THIS IS AN EXTREMELY PAINFUL EVENT AND THAT POOR CHILD FEELS EVERY SINGLE BIT OF IT. WOULD YOU DO THAT TO A PUPPY? >> YOU WOULD PROBABLY BE ARRESTED IF YOU DID! >> Father: YOU WOULD BE ARRESTED, TEARING IT APART LIMB FROM LIMB AND CRUSHING THE HEAD? OF COURSE YOU WOULD. AND THAT CHILD FEELS NOTHING LESS THAN THE PUPPY. SO, FIRST OF ALL, I'M SORRY TO GET PASSION HAD HERE. BUT THAT'S INCORRECT. AND THE SECOND THING THAT I THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT IS TO SAY, YOU ARE KILLING A HUMAN HUN BEING. THIS IS EXACTLY THE JUSTIFICATION USED BY HITLER. WELL, GEE, IF THEY BELIEVE IN ETERNAL LIFE, OKAY. LET'S KILL 6 MILLION OF THEM BECAUSE THEY WILL JUST GO TO HEAVEN. WHY NOT? GOD HAS GIVEN US A CONSCIENCE AND HE HAS MADE US RESPONSIBLE FOR ONE ANOTHER. GOD WILL JUDGE US ON HOW WE TAKE CARE OF OTHER PEOPLE IN OUR MIDST. THE CO-RESPONSIBILITY THAT WE HAVE FOR ONE ANOTHER. WE CAN'T EVER, EVER USE THE RATIONALIZATION THAT, WELL, THAT PERSON WAS A GOOD PERSON. THEY WILL GO TO HEAVEN ANY WAY. I OUGHT TO JUST KILL THEM BECAUSE WHAT THE HECK. THEY ARE EXPENDING SOME RESOURCES. THIS COULD JUSTIFY THE HOLOCAUST OF ALL HOLOCAUSTS, IT'S THE WORST IMAGINABLE RATIONALIZATION OR REASONING, I'M BEGGING YOU, WHATEVER YOU DO. NEVER SAY THAT AGAIN. DON'T SAY THAT IN PUBLIC. BECAUSE IF YOU DID, YOU WOULD BE JUSTIFYING NOT ONLY THE HOLOCAUST OF ALL THESE INNOCENT VICTIMS. YOU COULD SAY, HITLER HAD THE RIGHT TO KILL ALL THOSE PEOPLE, THEY WERE GOOD PEOPLE THEY WILL JUST GO TO HEAVEN BY THE WAY. AND STALIN HAD THE RIGHT TO KILL ALL THOSE PEOPLE AND THEY WERE FUNDAMENTALLY INNOCENT, JUST PEOPLE WHO WERE WORKING ON THE FARMS. WHAT COULD THEY HAVE DONE THAT WAS TOO BAD. ALL OF THE FUNDAMENTALLY INNOCENT ONES, ALL OF THEM WOULD HAVE GONE TO HEAVEN. STALIN IS BLAMELESS FOR KILLING ALL OF THEM. AND MOO STOA TONGUE, I MEAN, HE WAS NOT REALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR KILLING THE 16 MILLION PEOPLE THAT HE KILLED. ET CETERA. ET CETERA. AND BY THE WAY, THE KHMER ROUGE, WHAT'S 4 MILLION? THEY ARE JUST PEASANT PEOPLE, BRINGING THEM INTO THE CITIES, TAKING THEM TO THE FARMS AWAY FROM THE CITY. WHY NOT. MOST OF THEM ARE PROBABLY INNOCENTS AND YOU COULD PROBABLY KILL ALL OF THEM AND THERE WOULD BE NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER. WHOA! THIS RATIONALE IS THE DEAD LEAST IMAGINABLE RATIONALE EVER. I KNOW YOU DIDN'T MEAN THAT. BUT I WANTED TO TELL YOU WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT RATIONALE GOT OUT INTO THE PUBLIC AND WERE ACTUALLY USED AND YOU KNOW, WHY NOT, BECAUSE LEGISLATORS AND JUSTICES HAVE USED SUCH RATIONALIZATIONS IN THE PAST. BUT IF IT WERE ACTUALLY PUBLICLY DONE ON ANY KIND OF MASSIVE SCALE IT COULD LEAD TO, OH, WHY NOT A NUCLEAR HOLOCAUST, MIDDLEF THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE INNOCENT, SO, WHY NOT BLOW THEM UP, THEY GO TO HEAVEN PROBABLY ANY WAY. SO, DON'T USE THAT RATIONALIZATION. >> AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE SUFFERING OF THE POOR AND MARGINALIZED. AND THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING IF YOU TAKE THE DEALING OF DOWNS SYNDROME. LET'S GET RID OF THEM BEFORE THEY ARE BORN. WHY DON'T WE GO TO ALL OF THE POOR NEIGHBORS, DE FACTO HAPPENING ANY WAY. JUST HAVE A LAW, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO HAVE A KID, YOU CAN'T HAVE A KID. WE'RE GOING TO ELIMINATE POVERTY BY ELIMINATING THE POOR PEOPLE. >> Father: YEAH, WHY NOT HAVE THE ONE CHILD POLICY OF CHINA AND ABORT EVERY SINGLE SECOND CHILD OR FORCED ABORTIONS, GOVERNMENT ABORTIONS OF ALL OF THOSE CHILDREN AND CREATE ANOTHER HOLOCAUST. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE CHILDREN, WHY NOT. THEY DON'T DESERVE TO LIVE. THEY JUST, EVEN THOUGH THE PARENTS EVEN WANT THEM TO LIVE. I MEAN, THEY ARE INNOCENTS ANY WAY. WHY NOT JUST KILL THEM. THEY WILL GO TO HEAVEN. RIGHT? >> YOU DON'T EVER WANT TO SAY ANYTHING LIKE THAT. AND BY THE WAY, WHEN THAT JUSTIFICATION GETS INTO FULL PUBLIC VIEW AND IT'S APPLIED TO INFANTICIDE AND APPLIED TO ADULTS, APPLIED TO THE ELDERLY, WHO ARE THE -- EXACTLY! EXACTLY! >> THE NAYSAYERS. >> AND WHO ARE GOING TO BE THE VICTIMS. THE POOR PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO PROTECT! I'M JUST TELLING YOU, THIS IS THE WAY HISTORY HAS ALWAYS BEEN. ALWAYS THE PEASANTS WHO SUFFER THAT KIND OF LOGIC. JUST KILLING THEM, IT'S OKAY. OKAY. JUST PEASANTS ANY WAY. >> THEY ARE MISERABLE. THEY ARE GOING TO DIE OF STARVATION SO LET'S JUST PUT THEM OUT OF THEIR MISERY. >> AND BY THE WAY, YOU ARE QUOTING STALIN WHEN HE GOES RIGHT DOWN INTO THE UKRAINE. THIS IS THE JUSTIFICATION THAT HE ACTUALLY USED TO WIPE OUT A HUGE PERCENTAGE OF THE UKRAINIAN POPULATION! IT'S JUST AMAZING. SO, YOU ARE IN BAD COMPANY WITH THAT RATIONAL AL. >> Doug: OKAY. NEXT QUESTION, KIND OF RELATED TO LAST WEEK'S PROGRAM. DEAR FR. SPITZER, WE DISAGREE WITH YOUR STANCE SAYING THAT IT IS NOT A SIN IF YOU DON'T VOTE. IF THE LIVES OF THE UNBORN ARE AT STAKE, WOULD THIS NOT BE A SIN OF OMISSION IF ONE FAILS TO VOTE WITHOUT A GOOD REASON? LARRY >> Father: WELL, LARRY, I GUESS JUST TAKING MY CUE FROM THE CHURCH ITSELF. AS THEY SAY, I CAN'T DECLARE IT TO BE A SIN OF THE CHURCH BECAUSE THAT'S ABOVE MY PAY GRADE. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO THE OPINION THAT IT IS A SIN NOT TO VOTE. BUT THE CHURCH HASN'T DECLARED IT THAT. AND I CERTAINLY ON MY OWN AUTHORITY CAN'T DO THAT. BE THAT AS IT MAY, THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF REASONS WHY A PERSON MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO VOTE. SO, YOU REALLY HAVE TO ARTICULATE THIS AND NUANCE IT IN A PARTICULAR WAY. AND ALSO, AGAIN, NOT VOTING IS NOT NECESSARILY THE SAME THING AS VOTING FOR SOMEONE WHO IS GOING TO DO THIS. YOU ARE NOT CULPABLE IN THE SAME WAY. IF YOU ARE NOT VOTING FOR THE PERSON WHO IS GOING TO BASICALLY PROMOTE, LET'S SAY, ABORTION, THAT'S NOT THE SAME THING AS ACTUALLY VOTING FOR THE PERSON WHO IS GOING TO PROMOTE ABORTION. THEN, THERE IS SOME SORT OF CULPABILITY. BUT GENERALLY THAT KIND OF OMISSION IS NOT CONSIDERED TO BE A SIN AND PROBABLY WON'T BE DECLARED TO BE ONE BY THE CHURCH. DOESN'T HAVE ANYWHERE NEAR THE SAME CULPABILITY AS VOTING FOR A PERSON WHO IS GOING TO PROPAGATE ABORTION ON A MASSIVE SCALE >> Doug: VERY GOOD. NEXT UP. I WATCHED SOME OF THE CONFIRMATION HEARINGS FOR AMY CONEY BARRETT AND HER CATHOLICISM HAS COME UNDER ATTACK. YET, OTHER HIGH RANKING DEMOCRATS, SOME ON THE COMMITTEE THERE, CLAIM TO BE GOOD PRACTICING CATHOLICS AND NO ONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH THEIR FAITH. WHY SHOULD HER FAITH BE CONTROVERSIAL WHILE OTHERS IS NOT? SUSAN >> Father: I THINK HER FAITH IS CONTROVERSIAL BECAUSE SHE PRACTICES WHAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND JESUS CHRIST HAVE BEEN TEACHING. SO, YEAH, I WOULD SAY, THERE'S WHAT WE MIGHT CALL CREDIBLE CATHOLICS AND NOT SO CREDIBLE CATHOLICS. I WOULD SAY THAT AMY CONEY BARRETT IS A VERY CREDIBLE CATHOLIC. SHE ETERNAL TAKES VERY SERIOUSLY, THE PROBLEM OF ABORTION. SHE DOES TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY OTHER BIG MORAL PROBLEMS THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT WE HAVE KIND OF GLOSSED OVER AS A CULTURE. SO, I MEAN, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, NOT ALL CATHOLICS ARE EQUAL. LET ME PUT IT THAT WAY. NOT ALL CATHOLICS, NOT ALL PEOPLE WHO CALL THEM QUOTE, UNQUOTE, CATHOLICS, ARE EQUAL. THERE'S A WHOLE VARIETY OF THEM. SOME OF THEM ARE VERY AUTHENTIC IN THE PRACTICE OF THEIR FAITH AND SOME ARE NOT. SOME OF THEM HAVE COURAGEOUS COURAGE IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE AND SOME DO NOT. SOME PEOPLE ACTUALLY WOULD TAKER A -- WOULD TAKE A HIT FOR THE TRUTH OF JESUS CHRIST OR THE TRUTH OF THE INNOCENCE OF THE UNBORN AND THEIR RIGHTS THAT SHOULD BE OBVIOUSLY PROTECTED BECAUSE THEY ARE INALIENABLE BY THEIR VERY HUMAN EXISTENCE. SO, THINK THAT AMY IS ALL OF THOSE THINGS. I WOULD CONSIDER HER TO BE A VERY GOOD PRACTICING CATHOLIC. OTHER PEOPLE, MAY BE. MAY BE THEY ARE NOT PEOPLE OF THEIR CONVICTION. MAY BE THEY ARE NOT CREDIBLE CATHOLICS. MAYBE THEY ARE NOT PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY AUTHENTICALLY GOING TO STAND UP AND PROCLAIM THE TRUTH OF JESUS CHRIST IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE. BY THE WAY, THERE'S PEOPLE WHO SAY, THIS IS ALL ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND NOT ABOUT JESUS CHRIST. LET ME TELL YOU THIS. JESUS SAYS VERY CLEARLY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL WHEN HE IS TALKING TO THE PERSON WHO COMES UP TO HIM. JESUS IS TALKING ABOUT THE SIXTH COMMANDMENT RIGHT AWAY. BASIC COMMANDMENTS RIGHT AWAY. AND SO, HE SAYS, VERY CLEARLY, I'M NOT DEPARTING FROM THIS. AND OF COURSE, THE IDEA OF KILLING OF AN INNOCENT AND OF COURSE, THE PROHIBITION OF THAT IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, WHO ARE WE KIDDING HERE? THIS IS THE PROCLAMATION OF THE JESUS CHRIST TOO NOT JUST THE PROCLAMATION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS AUTHENTICALLY INTERPRETING WHAT JESUS SAID AND MEANT. SO, ANYWAY, I WOULD JUST HAVE TO SAY, I GUESS THERE'S TWO KINDS OF CATHOLICS, CREDIBLE ONES AND NOT SO CREDIBLE AND AUTHENTIC ONES AND NOT SO AUTHENTIC ONES >> Doug: AND YOU CAN GO TO crediblecatholic.com. WHO SAID YOU ARE NOT A MARKETER? >> Father: WELL, THAT WAS AN ACCIDENTAL MARKETING! >> Doug: WHILE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT, LET ME, AMY CONEY BARRETT GOT ASKED A QUESTION BECAUSE SHE MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT DEALING WITH SEXUAL PREFERENCE, POLITE WORD DEALING WITH HOMOSEXUAL, THINGS LIKE THAT. AND SHE WAS CRITICIZED FOR THAT IN A SENSE, SHE SAID, IT'S NOT A PREFERENCE, IT'S INBORN, THIS IS HOW PEOPLE ARE. IT'S INTERESTING. THAT'S ONE POSITION. AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER POSITION OUT THERE ABOUT TRANS GENDERISM. PEOPLE ARE OUT THERE AND DECIDE WHAT THEY WANT TO BE AND HOW CAN IT BE BOTH? >> Father: IT ACTUALLY CAN'T BE. AND WITH RESPECT TO HOMOSEXUALITY, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WHOEVER SAID THAT. THERE'S NOT REALLY A "GAY GENE" THERE'S GENETIC INFLUENCE OVER 23%, SAY, MAYBE SAME SEX ATTRACTION PREFERENCES. SO, 23% OF THOSE PREFERENTIAL AREAS ARE DETERMINED BY A HOST OF KIF GENETIC -- DIFFERENT GENETIC FACTORS. THAT MAY BE TRUE. BUT THE IDEA OF BEING INBORN, IN THE SENSE OF GENETICALLY INBORN, THAT'S NOT BORNE OUT BY THE GENETIC EVIDENCE. AND YOU PUT IN GOOGLE, IS THERE A GAY GENE, GO TO THE ARTICLE FROM SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN. TAKE A LOOK AT THE SUMMARY WORK THAT WAS DONE THERE IN SCIENTIFIC AMERICA. IT EXPLAINS THE RESEARCH ON THE GENETIC BACKGROUND. AND 23% OF THE SAME SEX ATTRACTION MAY HAVE GENETIC FACTORS OR MAY NOT HAVE GENETIC FACTORS BEHIND THEM. BUT THE IDEA OF, A GENETIC PROCLIVITY TOWARD HOMOSEXUALITY ITSELF IS NOT BORNE OUT BY THE GENETIC EVIDENCE. AND THAT'S SEEMING TO BE A PRETTY SOLID CONCLUSION RIGHT NOW. >> Doug: OKAY. THE NEXT QUESTION. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I WANT TO STATE UPFRONT THAT I AM AGAINST ALL FORMS OF ABORTIONS. BUT IS IT NOT TIME FOR CATHOLIC'S TO FOCUS ON THE REASON'S MANY WOMEN GIVE FOR HAVING ABORTIONS. THAT THEY CAN'T AFFORD OR ARE UNABLE TO CARE FOR A BABY? LET'S ADDRESS THESE PROBLEMS FIRST AND TRY TO REACH THE HEARTS OF WOMEN AND SHOW THEM IT IS WRONG TO KILL AN UNBORN CHILD. MARK >> Father: MARK, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THE IDEA THAT WE OUGHT TO HELP WOMEN TO HAVE THEIR CHILDREN AND HELP WOMEN TO SEE THAT ABORTION IS A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE THING BY THE WAY FOR WHICH MANY OF THEM HAVE CONSIDERABLE GRIEF AFTER THE FACT. FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT. HOWEVER WE CANNOT IN ANY WAY MAKE THE CASE TO SAY, BUT WE CANNOT SAY THEY HAVE COMMITTED AN INTRINSIC EVIL. LET'S JUST PRE SUPPOSE THEY ARE NOT PREBORN AND LET'S JUST PRE SUPPOSED THE PETER SINGER, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY WHO APPLIES THE SAME ARGUMENT APPLIED TO INFANTICIDE. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF FAMILIES OUT THERE, HE SAYS, WHO JUST DON'T HAVE THE MONEY. OR IN PETER SINGER'S CASE, THERE ARE JUST SOME CONDITIONS. I MEAN, THIS PERSON COULD BE BLIND, SINGER WOULD INCLUDE THAT. AND HEY, A LITTLE THREAT TO ME. AND SO, THEY HAVE A GENETIC TOWARD AN EYE PROBLEM, AND AFTER ALL, THE CHILD COULDN'T BE HAPPY OR VARIETY OF OTHER FACTORS, INTELLIGENCE QUOTA, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. ALL OF THESE THINGS. OKAY. IF YOU START TAKING THAT, THEN ANN INTRINSIC EVIL COULD BE EXCUSED BECAUSE OF THE EXTRANEOUS FACTORS, PROPENSITY TOWARD SICKNESS, GENETIC DEFECT, PROPENSITY, NO POSSIBILITY FOR ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES OR THEY COULD BE IN POVERTY OR WHATEVER THE CASE IS. IF YOU START USING THESE INCONSEQUENTIAL AND WHAT WE CALL IN PHILOSOPHY, ACCIDENTAL OR INCIDENTAL EXCUSES TO SAY THAT THIS JUSTIFIES THE VIOLATION OF A SERIOUS INTRINSIC EVIL, IT JUST IS ABSOLUTELY DISPROPORTIONATE. IT DOES NOT WORK. YOU CANNOT USE AN INCIDENTAL, RATIONALE TO JUSTIFY COMMITTING A SERIOUS INTRINSIC EVIL LIKE THE KILLING OF AN INNOCENT HUMAN BEING, PREBORN, ABORTION, INFANTICIDE, ANYTHING AT ALL, YOU CAN'T DO IT. SO, YEAH, I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. LET'S HELP THE LADIES TO HAVE THEIR CHILDREN. HELP THEM TO GIVE THE EXPLANATION OF WHY ABORTION IS WRONG. BUT NEVER USE THESE KIND OF THINGS TO JUSTIFY THEIR OBTAINING AN ABORTION. BECAUSE IF YOU DO, YOU LITERALLY OPEN THE FLOODGATES OF CONSCIENCE. AND THE INTRINSIC EVILS WOULD BE JUSTIFIED BY, WHAT? WHERE DO YOU STOP? WHAT'S THE RATIONALIZATIONS THAT COULD BE PROPOSED FOR INTRINSIC EVILS. YOU WOULD BE RIGHT BACK TO WHAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT BEFORE. STALIN SAYING, WELL, WE JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FOOD FOR BOTH THE UKRAINIANS TO EAT THEIR OWN FOOD AND MEET THE NEEDS OF THE RUSSIAN SOLDIERS AND THE PEOPLE. SO, KILL THE UKRAINIANS AND THE FOOD, JUST TAKE IT. SO, WHERE DO YOU STOP INTRINSIC EVIL? INTRINSIC EVILS HAVE TO BE STOPPED AT THE VERY INCEPTION. YOU JUST DON'T DO THEM. THAT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN STOP THEM. THE MINUTE YOU RATIONALIZING THEM OFF, START EXCUSING THAT FOR WHATEVER REASON, YOU GET INTO REALLY TERRIBLE PROBLEMS THAT CANNOT BE STOPPED. THE SLIPPERY SLOPE IS REAL AND HISTORY PROVES IT. >> Doug: VERY GOOD. WITH THAT MARKED POINT WE'LL TAKE A BREAK RIGHT HERE IN "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." MUCH MORE AHEAD, STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE WITH YOUR QUESTIONS HERE IN THE HEART OF "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." [MUSIC] [MUSIC] >> Doug: WELCOME BACK TO "FR.SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." HE WAS ONE OF THE THEOLOGY ROUND TABLE VOTING FOR LIFE PANELISTS. WE RAN IT LAST WEEK AND GOT GOOD FEEDBACK. AND WE'LL RE-AIR, FRIDAY OCTOBE0 P.M. EASTERN TIME. GO TO OUR YOU TUBE AND ON DEMAND CHANNELS TO WATCH THESE PROGRAMS AS WELL AS "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." WHICH IS BASED ON THE VOTERS GUIDE, ewtn.com/vote. WE LIKE TO RELY ON MOTHER ANGELICA'S PERSPECTIVE. AS MOTHER SAID, THE OTHER PART OF ABORTION IS EUTHANASIA AND YOU CAN REALLY GET THE MEDICINE YOU NEED BASS YOU ARE TOO OLD AND YOU ARE TOO OLD AND YOU HAVE HAD YOUR LIFE. WAKE UP, DON'T LET THEM FOOL YOU. MOTHER ANGELICA. GREAT WISDOM AND INSIGHT FROM OUR FOUNDRESS. AND WE ONCE AGAIN TURN FOR MORE WISDOM TO FATHER SPITZER. GOOD OLE MOTHER ANGELICA, THE GREAT INSIGHT SHE HAD AND THE TEACHING THAT SHE GAVE THAT WAS SO PROPHETICALLY PRECISE TODAY. NOW, HERE'S MORE QUESTIONS. OKAY. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I CHANGED TO PRO-LIFE AFTER HEARING HEARTFELT AND HEARTBREAKING ABORTION REGRET STORIES, THEN HAVING DOCTORS EXPLAIN CHILD DEVELOPMENT IN THE WOMB AND PROVIDE GRAPHIC EXPLANATIONS OF ABORTION PROCEDURES. I BELIEVE MY PRO-CHOICE FRIENDS PROBABLY HAVE NOT SEEN ALL OF THIS, THEY REALLY DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION. IF WE BETTER PRESENTED THE HORROR OF ABORTION TO POLITICIANS, CELEBRITIES, AND ALL HIGHLY INFLUENTIAL PRO-CHOICE PEOPLE WOULD THIS NOT CHANGE HOW OUR COUNTRY FEELS ABOUT ABORTION? MIKE >> Father: WELL, MIKE I THINK YOU ARE PARTIALLY RIGHT. I THINK THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO FINALLY SEE AN ABORTION OR THEY HEAR ABOUT AN ABORTION AND KNOW THAT THE BABY, FOR EXAMPLE, DOES FEEL THE PAIN AND KNOW, THIS IS REALLY THE KILLING OF A HUMAN BEING. YOU JUST CAN'T DISMEMBER A HUMAN BEING AND CRUSH THEIR HEAD AND NOT SAY, WELL, THERE'S SOMETHING GOING WRONG HERE. I MEAN, SO, I THINK IN A WAY THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE OPEN TO THE TRUTH. AND WHEN THEY SEE IT, THEY WILL CHANGE THEIR MINDS. AND WE CAN DO A BETTER JOB AT DOING THIS. NOW, YOU KNOW, THERE'S TWO APPROACHES. KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS HAVE THE GREAT APPROACH OF USING ULTRASOUND MACHINES AND EVEN INTRAUIT RYAN PHOTOGRAPHIC TECHNIQUES TO SHOW PERSPECTIVE MOTHERS THEIR LITTLE BABIES THERE. AND WHEN THE MOTHERS SEE THE BABIES, OH, IT INVOLVES THEM TO HAVE THAT BABY. THAT WORKS. AND ALSO, JUST SOMETIMES EXPLAINING THE HORRIBLE TERROR OF WHAT AN ABORTION REALLY IS, WHAT IT CONSISTS IN. LIKE THE ABBY JOHNSON WAKE-UP MOMENT THAT REALLY HELPS A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE QUOTE, UNQUOTE OPEN TO HEARING THE TRUTH. BUT THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST INTRANSIGENTLY CLOSED TO HEARING THE TRUTH. I MET THEM. THEY ARE HOLDING THEIR EARS. THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO TALK. THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO SAY WHAT IT REALLY IS OR THE TRUTH OF WHAT IT IS. EVEN IF THEY DO HEAR THE TRUTH OF WHAT IT REALLY IS, BASICALLY, THEY TRY TO OVERSCREAM YOU BY TELLING YOU THAT THIS REALLY ISN'T A HUMAN BEING. BUT YOU ARE LOOKING AT AN OBVIOUS HUMAN BEING. YEAH, NOT FULLY DEVELOPED BUT VERY OBVIOUSLY A HUMAN BEING. YOU KNOW THEY HAVE A FULL HUMAN GENOME. A UNIQUE HUMAN GENOME. NO OTHER HUMAN BEING LIKE THAT HUMAN BEING IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD. AND THAT HUMAN BEING IS NOT JUST A PART OF THE MOTHER'S BODY. IT IS AN INDEPENDENT AGENT. HAS A DIFFERENT GENETIC CODE THAN THE MOM DOES. BUT ALSO, IS AN INDEPENDENTLY FUNCTIONING AGENT WHICH HAS ITS OWN INTRINSIC AUTONOMY. NOT TO MENTION ITS OWN SOUL WHICH I BELIEVE IS PRESENT FROM THE VERY MOMENT OF FERTILIZATION. AND FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR THAT. AND I'M NOT KIDDING YOU. IT WOULDN'T MATTER WHAT SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT I BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR. WHAT EVIDENCE OF THEM HAVING A HUMAN SOUL THAT WOULD SURVIVE BODILY DEATH. WHAT EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE, MADE IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF GOD, BELONGING TO GOD AND NOT SIMPLY JUST THE PROPERTY OF THE MOTHER. WHAT EVIDENCE BRINGS TO BEAR, HEY, THE WOMAN'S RIGHT TO PRIVACY CAN NEVER OVERRULE THE RIGHT TO LIFE IS MORT FUNDAMENTAL THAT THE LIFE OF PROPERTY. AND IT'S NECESSARY FOR THE VERY POSSIBILITY OF THE RIGHT TO LEALIBERTY. YOU CAN'T REVERSE THE ININTRINSIC ORDER OF THESE RIGHTS. NECESSARY IS THE RIGHT HERE. AND IT'S NECESSARY FOR THE POSSIBILITY OF LIBERTY AND FREEDOM. I CAN BRING EVIDENCE, TONS OF IT, LAYERS AND LAYERS. AND IF YOU ARE HOLDING YOUR EARS AND DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT, THE OBVIOUS CONCLUSION BECAUSE YOU HAVE ANOTHER MOTIVE, SOMETHING ELSE AT STAKE, THAT YOU WANT FOR SOME REASON TO ELEVATE THE AUTONOMY OF THE MOTHER OVER THE LIFE OF THAT INNOCENT HUMAN BEING OR BECAUSE YOU WANT, WELL, LET'S FACE IT, SEXUAL LEARNING DISABILITIALITY TAKING TO THE -- LIBERALITY AND TAKING TO THE END, I MEAN, WHATEVER YOU HAVE ON YOUR MIND, THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO TO PUSH THAT PERSON OVER THE LINE. THEY HAVE DETERMINED, NOT BY CONSCIENCE, BUT BY A STRICT CALCULATION ACCORDING TO WHAT THEY WANT TO OCCUR POLITICALLY OR WHAT THEY WANT TO OCCUR IN TERMS OF THE OUTCOME OF THEIR OWN LIVES. OR THE OUTCOME OF THE SOCIAL ORDER AS THEY SEE FIT. THEY HAVE MADE, WHAT I CALL A SOCIO POLITICAL CALCULATION, THAT'S THAT. AND NOTHING THAT WE CAN DO TO DISSUADE THAT GROUP. YES, THERE'S A GROUP THAT'S OPEN, VERY OPEN AND WE WANT TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN DO TO PRESENT THE EVIDENCE, SHOW THEM WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON IN AN ABORTION, SHOWING THEM THIS IS A UNIQUE HUMAN BEING WHO DESERVES THE RIGHT TO LIFE AS MUCH AS ANY POST BORN HUMAN BEING FROM THE TIME OF BIRTH ALL THE WAY TO THE TIME WHEN THEY ARE LITERALLY IN THEIR LAST DAYS. SO, FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, IF WE DON'T HOLD UP TO THE PURPOSES, FOR AN INTRINSIC GOOD, OPPOSITE OF AN INTRINSIC EVIL I WOULD SAY WE'RE GOING TO LOSE OUR SENSE, NOT JUST OF IMMORALITY BUT HUMANENESS IN THE CULTURE. AND THAT'S TO OUR DETRIMENT. I THINK THE UNDOING OF OUR CULTURE >> Doug: DO YOU THINK A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE, WHO MOVED AWAY FROM THE EXCUSE SAYING, WELL, IT'S NOT REALLY A CHILD. AND KIND OF, LIKE NOW, IT'S NOT A CHILD BUT ARGUING WHOSE RIGHTS ARE MORE IMPORTANT AND WHAT YOU ELUDED TO AS WELL. BUT HOW MUCH OF THAT IS PEOPLES' GUILT. PEOPLE WHO YOU ARE DEALING WITH, WHO HAVE HAD ABORTIONS, PAID FOR ABORTIONS, COUNSELED SOMEBODY TO HAVE AN ABORTION. AND A THERE IS A LOT OF COLLECTE GUILT OUT THERE, THAT YOU ARE POKING THE WOUND WHEN YOU BRING UP THE ISSUE. >> I AGREE, THERE'S A LOT OF THAT, BUT ALSO I AGREE A LOT OF COLLECTIVE STUBBORNNESS TO ELEVATE ISSUES ABOVE THE FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE OF THE RIGHT TO LIFE. WHY DON'T WE JUST FOLLOW OUR FOREFATHERS IN THIS COUNTRY, THE CONSTITUTIONAL FATHERS WHO BASICALLY WANTED TO KEEP INALIENABLE RIGHTS OUT OF THE CLUTCHES YOU OF THE CONSTITUTIOL CONVENTION. WHY WOULD YOU -- JEFFERSON STATED IT PERFECTLY IN THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF EVIDENT. THEY ARE NOT COMING FROM ANY GOVERNMENT DECLARATION. WE HOLD THEM TO BE SELF EVIDENT. ALL HUMAN BEINGS ARE CREATED EQUAL AND HAVE THE INALIENABLE, THAT MEANS YOU CAN'T TAKE THEM AWAY. THEY BELONG TO THE PERSON BY THEIR VERY NATURE. AND THE INALIENABLE, INL RIGHT TO PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. TAKE IT FROM THAT CLUE. THEY ARE INALIENABLE. YEAH, THEY ARE IN THE 14TH AMENDMENT THAT NO STATES VIOLATES THE RIGHTS OF LIFE, LIBERTY, AND PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. YOU DON'T PUT IT IN THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE IT CAN BE AMENDED. INALIENABLE RIGHTS ARE THERE, INTRINSIC, INALIENABLE AND IN VIRTUE OF OUR HUMANITY, THEREFORE, NO GOVERNMENT HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE THEM AWAY. NOT EVEN THE SUPREME COURT IN THAT VERY FALLACIOUSLY ARGUED ROE V. WADE AND SOME OF THE OTHER PRECEDENCES -- SORRY OF THE RAISING OF MY VOICE HERE, BUT IT'S JUST SIMPLY FALSE, FALSE LOGIC AND NEVER HAS BEEN PART OF THE WAY WE DESIGNED INALIENABLE RIGHTS AND THE CONSTITUTION, NOT EVENLY WITH OUR FOREFATHERS, JOHN LOCKE, HUGO GROTIUS, FRANSISCO SUÁREZ AND INALIENABLE RIGHTS GO ON THEIR AND NO GOVERNMENT HAS THE RIGHT TO ABROGATE THEM. THAT'S THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE UPON WHICH OUR COUNTRY IS BASED AND LET'S STICK WITH IT. >> AND SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO REACH PEOPLE THAT PUT THEIR HANDS OVER THEIR EARS. ETHIC THAT'S ACCEPTABLE! NOW, HERE'S THE NEXT QUESTION. DEAR FR. SPITZER, FOR THE PAST SEVERAL WEEKS YOU HAVE SPENT MUCH TIME EXPLAINING THAT LIFE ISSUES RISE TO THE LEVEL OF INTRINSIC EVIL AND ARE OF GREATER WEIGHT IN VOTING THAN OTHER "NEGOTIABLE ISSUES SUCH AS HEALTH CARE AND IMMIGRATION. THIS IS ALL EXPLAINED IN THE USCCB FORMING CONSCIENCES FOR FAITHFUL CITIZENSHIP. HOW THEN DO MANY CATHOLICS EVEN IN THE CHURCH DISREGARD THE PRIORITIES LAID FORTH AND SPEAK OF ALL ISSUES AS IF THEY HAD EQUAL WEIGHT THEREBY CONFUSING CATHOLIC VOTERS? WALTER THAT'S WHERE YOU GET INTO THE SEAMLESS GARMENT CONFUSION. >> WELL, AGAIN, WALTER, I DO THINK, UNFORTUNATELY, POOR CARDINAL BERNADINE'S SEAMNESS GARMENT DOCTRINE WAS TRULY TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT. HE DID NOT MEAN THAT ALL ETHICAL ISSUES HAD THE SAME WEIGHT, THAT THEY WERE WEIGHTED EQUALLY. HE JUST MEANT TO SAY THEY ARE CONNECTED WITH EACH OTHER. AND THE PROBLEM IS, SOME FANCY FOOT WORK GOT OUT THERE ON THE PART OF PEOPLE WHO DID NOT HAVE ANY SORT OF SENSE OF INTRINSIC EVIL, THAT THE SEAMLESS GARMENT MEANS ALL ARE WEIGHTED EQUALLY AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH CERTAINLY HAS NOT HELD THAT, NOT A SINGLE ETHICIST, I MEAN, UTILITARIANS MIGHT. BUT NOT A SINGLE ETHICIST THAT HAS ANY SENSE OF INTRINSIC EVIL OR OBJECTIVE MORAL GOOD HAS EVER SAID THAT, CATHOLIC, CHRISTIAN, NON CHRISTIAN AND OTHERWISE. SO, I MEAN, NOBODY IS, THIS IS RIDICULOUS THOUGHT OF THE VANTAGE POINT OF THEORETICAL AND JESUS CHRIST PREACHING CATHOLICISM. FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES THIS IS A MASSIVE CONFUSION AND THINK, ALMOST A CULPABLE ERROR ON THE PART OF SOME OF PEOPLE WHO WERE PERPETUATING THIS BECAUSE CARDINAL BERNADINE'S WORDS WERE CEREAL ARTICULATED AND DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE EQUAL WEIGHTED ISSUES OF ETHICAL, BECAUSE THE ENTIRE CHURCH WOULD HAVE COME DOWN UPON HIM. AND NOT ONLY THAT, ETHICAL COMMUNITY, CHRISTIAN AND NON CHRISTIAN CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED IN COMING DOWN ON HIM LIKE A TON OF BRICKS. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A RIDICULOUS STATEMENT. BUT NEVERTHELESS, RIDICULOUS AS IT IS, PEOPLE ARE ESPOUSING IT AT EVERY TURN. YOU SIMPLY CAN'T SAY THAT KILLING A PERSON SHOULD BE PUT ON EQUAL WEIGHT WITH SOME OTHER MORAL DEED, WHETHER IT'S CROSSING THE STREET AGAINST THE LIGHT. THAT WOULD BE OF COURSE FROM THE SUBLIME TO THE RIDICULOUS. AND EVEN LYING OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE OR WHATEVER. LIBERTY RIGHTS, PROTECTING OF THE LIBERTY RIGHTS. YES, I GET TO KILL ALL OF YOU IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE LIBERTY. WE HEARD THAT OUT OF THE MOUTH OF JOSEPH STALIN, HITLER, POL POT, MOO STOA TONGUE AND WE'RE JUST TRYING TO HELP YOU OUT AND JUST TRYING TO ADVANCE YOUR ECONOMIC PROSPERITY. IN ORDER TO ADVANCE THE ECONOMIC PROSPERITY OF HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS, ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS KILL TENS OF MILLIONS. FOR SOME REASON, THE TENS OF MILLIONS WHO WERE GETTING KILLED DIDN'T LIKE IT. AND THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE BEING DEALT AN INJUSTICE. IMAGINE THAT. THIS IS WHAT COMES WHEN WE REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE HIERARCHY OF RIGHTS. THERE IS A HIERARCHY OF RIGHTS. THERE IS A HIERARCHY OF MORALITY. THERE'S A HIERARCHY OF GOODS. AND IT HAS TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED UNLESS WE DO ACKNOWLEDGE IT IF WE DON'T DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN INTRINSIC EVILS, AND THOSE THAT ARE NOT DIFFERENTIATED BETWEEN WHAT WE MIGHT CALL SOMETHING TAUGHT BY EXTRAORDINARY OR ORDINARY MAGISTERIUM WHICH IS SOMETHING AS A MATTER OF PRUDENTIAL JUDGMENT. IF WE DON'T MAKE THE DISTINCTIONS, WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO THE WORST DILEMMAS IN OUR OWN PERSONAL LIVES AS WELL AS LEADING THE ENTIRE CULTURE ASTRAY. THIS IS THE PROBLEMATIC ISSUE. SO, I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY, THE OLD SCHOLASTIC ADAGE, RIGHT? NEVER DENY. SELL THEM, AFFIRM, AND ALWAYS DISTINGUISH. IN OTHER WORDS, WE CAN ARGUE UNTIL WE'RE BLUE IN THE FACE BUT IF WE DON'T MAKE THE RELEVANT DISTINCTIONS FROM THE OUTSET, WE'RE LIKELY TO LEAD OURSELVES INTO THE WORST IMAGINABLE MORAL CRISIS EVER. AND RIGHT NOW WITH WHAT ABORTION IS, A WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE SITTING THERE CELEBRATING THE FACT, LITERALLY TURNING ON NEW YORK CITY'S PINK LIGHTS AND SO FORTH AND SO ON, TO CELEBRATE THE FACT THAT NOW WE CAN KILL A PERSON JUST SECONDS BEFORE THEY ARE BORN. OBVIOUSLY, A VIABLE CHILD. WHAT IS TO CELEBRATE HERE? AS SOLS NECH ANN SAID AT THE UNIVERSITY HARVARD 1 1978 COMMENCEMENT? WHERE'S THE JOY? WHAT'S THE JOY OF THIS? SO, MY POINT IS, THIS IS THE DELUSION FRANKLY -- I'M GOING TO SAY THIS RIGHT OUT -- OF SATAN HIMSELF. AND IT'S A DELUSION THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN WITH FULL GUSTO, RIGHT INTO THE PUBLIC SQUARE. AGAIN, ALAS, THESE ARE THE TIMES WHICH WE LIVE AND CERTAINLY WE MUST MAKE APPROPRIATE DISTINCTIONS. RIGHT, ALAS. THE SEAMLESS GARMENT AS YOU SAID, THE RATIONALIZATION IS OUT THERE IN THE CATHOLIC COMMUNITY AND I THINK IT'S INCUMBENT UPON ALL OF US TO SAY, THAT DOESN'T WORK. THERE'S REALLY A WEIGHTING OF ISSUES AND THE BISHOPS ARE NOT JUST SAYING IT IN THE VOTING GUIDE. THE ENTIRE CHURCH SAYS IT FROM THEIR INCEPTION. THE ENTIRE POLITICAL COMMUNITY HAS SAID IT IN THE HIERARCHY OF RIGHTS. LIFE BEFORE LIBERTY, LIBERTY BEFORE PROPERTY, ET CETERA. SO, WE JUST HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS. AND SAY, OH, A TERRIBLE ERROR HAS BEEN MADE, WE NEED TO CORRECT IT. WHY COMMIT IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN. ALBERT EINSTEIN'S THOUGHT, INSANITY IS SIMPLY COMMITTING THE SAME MISTAKE DOING IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER >> Doug: RIGHT. AND EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT. AND THINK WITH SOME OF THESE THINGS, YOU END UP, WE TALKED ABOUT IT ON THE SHOW WITH FATHER MITCH AND COLIN, THE IDEA, SOME PEOPLE SAY, FINE, ABORTION MAY BE THE MOST IMPORTANT. BUT THEN I ADD UP ALL OF THE OTHER ONES FOR THE OTHER THINGS. AND WHEN I ADD THEM AND PUT THEM ON THE SCALE, WELL, ABORTION ITSELF IS NUMBER ONE BUT THIS IS SOMEHOW HIGHER. THESE ADD UP TO AN 11, AND MAYBE A 10. SO, I CAN VOTE THAT WAY BECAUSE SHE IS OTHER ISSUES OUTWEIGH IT ULTIMATELY. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT. >> WELL, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT, MAYBE I CAN ILLUSTRATE IT WITH ANOTHER EXAMPLE. SUPPOSE I'M GOING TO SAY, OKAY. IT'S MY TIME TO VOTE IN NAZI GERMANY. HERE'S HITLER. OKAY. HE DOESN'T LIKE A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE, JEWISH PEOPLE, DOESN'T LIKE GYPSY PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH HIM. DOESN'T LIKE COMMUNISTS, SOCIALISTS WHO ARE GOING TO DISAGREE WITH HIM. SO, HE'S IN FAVOR OF GENOCIDE FOR ALL THESE GROUPS. HOWEVER, LOOK AT ALL OF THE GOOD HE'S DOING IN 10 OTHER AREAS. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, HE'S DOING FANTASTIC THINGS FOR THE ECONOMY. THE MARK IS FINALLY BACK ON TRACK AGAIN, EMPLOYING PEOPLE WHO WERE NEVER EMPLOYED AND THE GERMAN ARMY IS JUST GROWING AND THE GERMAN PEOPLE HAVE SUCH A SENSE OF PRIDE THAT THEY NEVER HAD BEFORE. WE CAN SEE THAT THE FATHERLAND IS SO MUCH BETTER OFF AND IN SO MANY DIFFERENT AREAS. FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, WHY NOT VOTE FOR GOOD OLE HITLER? RIGHT. HE'S ONLY GOT ONE FAULT. AND THAT FAULT IS BASICALLY, AH, GENOCIDE. WELL, THAT'S CRAZY! BECAUSE GENOCIDE IS SO MUCH WORSE. A HOLOCAUST OF INNOCENT LIVES WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING IN ABORTION. IT'S SO MUCH WORSE. HOW COULD YOU EVER JUSTIFY IT BY WHATEVER CALCULUS OR ADDITION F ALL KINDS OF OTHER ISSUES, THEY ARE TRANG AGAINST IN ALL OF THEM, IN THEIR TOTALITY, COLLECTIVITY ARE TANGENTIAL TO THE ISSUE OF THE HOLOCAUST. STOP THE HOLOCAUST. THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO! BASICALLY, THAT'S THE REASON. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IF SOMETHING IS TANGENTIAL THAT MEANS TO SAY IT'S NOT IMPERTINENT TO OVERTURNING THE INTRINSIC EVIL OF THE FIRST ISSUE. YOU CAN ADD AS MUCH AS YOU WANT. IT'S NOT GOING TO ADD UP TO, DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE INTRINSIC EVIL. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. AND BY THE WAY, AGAIN, YOU WOULD HAVE A MAJORITY OPINION IN BOTH CHECKAL COMMUNITY AS WELL AS PROBABLY AMONG GOOD OLE POLITICAL THEORISTS AT LEAST OF THE OLD DAYS, GENERAL AGREEMENT ON THAT. BACK TO ONE OF THE EARLIER POINTS SOMEBODY MADE WITH THE IDEA OF, WELL, WHY DON'T WE LOOK AT THE ROOT CAUSES HERE. LET'S LOOK AT THE ROOT CAUSES SO PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ABORTIONS. THAT'S TRUE. BUT WHY DON'T WE STOP THE KILLING FIRST AND THEN WORK ON THE ROOT CAUSES. WHY DO WE HAVE TO CONTINUE ON THE ROOT CAUSES WHILE WE ALLOW THE KILLINGS TO CONTINUE. >> I TOTALLY AGREE. THE ANSWER IS, YOU WOULDN'T! YOU BETTER STOP THE KILLING AND GET THE ROOT CAUSES ALONG WITH IT! ABSOLUTELY! >> HERE'S A LAST QUESTION WITH SOMEBODY NOT THRILLED WITH THE SHOW IN THE LAST BIT OF TIME. DEAR FR. SPITZER, I WATCH YOUR SHOW REGULARLY. I DO NOT, HOWEVER, APPRECIATE THE POLITICAL ORIENTATION OF TODAY'S SHOW AND TURNED IT OFF AFTER A FEW MINUTES. I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH ANY SHOW ONLY TO BE TOLD HOW TO VOTE. IT IS INAPPROPRIATE AND NOT IN KEEPING WITH WHAT SHOULD BE SOUND RELIGIOUS DISCUSSIONS. I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT WE WERE HAVING! I WILL START TO WATCH AGAIN AFTER ELECTION DAY. MILTON >> Father: WELL, MILTON, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO TURN OFF OUR SHOW AT ANY TIME. AT THE SAME MOMENT, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, CONSCIENCE HAS TO BE A FACTOR IN THE WHOLE AREA OF THE PUBLIC SQUARE WHICH INCLUDES VOTING. SO, THE FIRST THING IS, YOU CAN'T JUST THROW OUT YOUR CONSCIENCE AS YOU ENTER INTO THE PUBLIC SQUARE. AND BY THE WAY, THIS IS ACKNOWLEDGED BY EVERYBODY, I WOULD SAY, ANYBODY THAT HAS ANY ETHICAL OPINION, RIGHT OR LEFT. YOU DON'T THROW YOUR CONSCIENCE OUT OF THE PUBLIC SQUARE. YOU HAVE TO BRING IT INTO THE PUBLIC SQUARE. EVEN JOHN ADAMS SAID, LOOK. OUR CONSTITUTION IS MADE FOR A RELIGIOUS AND MORAL PEOPLE, NONE OTHER WILL BE ABLE TO LIVE UNDER THE KIND OF NON STRUCTURES OF THE CONSTITUTION THAT WE HAVE WRITTEN. JOHN ADAMS SAYS, DON'T THROW YOUR CONSCIENCE OUT OF THE PUBLIC SQUARE AND PRETTY MUCH EVERY POLITICAL THEORIST AND FOUNDING FATHERS HAS SAID THE SAME THING. IF WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, AND SECONDLY, WE ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THE FORMATION OF CONSCIENCE RELATIVE TO VOTING. THE FORMATION OF VOTING CONSCIENCE RELATIVE TO HOW OUR REPRESENTATIVES VOTE WITHIN THE LEGISLATURE, IF THE CHURCH HAS SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT IT. OF COURSE, THE CHURCH HAS SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS. THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON JESUS CAME TO THE EARTH. TO GIVE US HIS MORAL TEACHING AND TO HAVE AND APPOINT, SPECIFICALLY, AN INTERCEPTER OF -- INTERPRETER OF HIS CHURCH, THE SEE OF SAINT PETER. AND THE CHURCH DOES HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY, AND THE CHURCH HAS SAID SOMETHING, THE USCCB HAS SAID SOMETHING, VERY CLEARLY. AND WE HAVE CHURCH DOCUMENTS THAT GO BACK TO FRANKLY THE DIDACHE, IN 88AD. SO, THERE ARE PLENTY OF CHURCH TEACHINGS THAT SAY, YOU KNOW, THING AND WE OUGHT TO VOTE FOR CANDIDATES WHO ARE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THIS INTRINSIC EVIL TO BE PROPAGATED ON A MASSIVE SCALE TO THE DETRIMENT OF MILLIONS OF INNOCENT HUMAN BEINGS. SO, IF WE HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR SPEAKING ABOUT THIS, AND WE DO, THE CHURCH HAS SPOKEN. I'M NOT SAYING SOMETHING OF MY OWN ACCORD. I'M SAYING SOMETHING WHICH OUR CHURCH HAS TAUGHT. I'M SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT THE FORMATION OF CONSCIENCE. I'M SAYING SOMETHING WHICH THE USCCB, UNITED STATES COUNCIL OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS HAVE IN THE RIGHT OF THIS, AND I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO SAY THAT IN AN ELECTION AS ANY POLITICAL SAT IRIST WOULD SAY IN ELECTION. IT'S A CONSCIENCE OF VOTING. WHAT ELSE MATTERS? >> YOU ARE SPEAKING THE TRUTH, FATHER, WHETHER PEOPLE LIKE IT OR NOT. AND WITH THAT BEING SAID, WE'RE TOTALLY OUT OF TIME >> Father: OH! VERY GOOD. TIME FLIES. BOW YOUR HEAD AND PRAY FOR GOD'S BLESSINGS. MAY THE LOD WHO HAS GIVEN US THIS CONSCIENCE AND SPEAKS THROUGH IT. AND MAY THE LORD WHO HAS GIVEN US THIS CHURCH AND SPEAKS THROUGH IT, SPEAK TO YOUR HEARTS THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT SO THAT YOU MIGHT TRULY HEAR HIS WORD AND DESIRE TO FOLLOW IT OUT OF LOVE OF HIM, CONCERN FOR HUMANITY AND CONCERN FOR THE CULTURES WHO SAFEGUARD IT. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> Doug: GOD BLESS YOU, FATHER, WE SHALL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. AND DON'T FORGET, FATHER SPITZER BOOKS AND DVDS AVAILABLE THROUGH EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOGUE AND ANSWERING MORE OF YOUR QUESTIONS HAVING TO DO WITH VOTING AND ABORTION. DON'T FORGET MY BOOK MARK SHOW WITH PAUL KENGOR, HE WROTE THE BOOK% DECEPTION, AND INFILTRATION WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING II THURSDAY OCTOBER 15 AT 10:00PMET SATURDAY OCTOBER 17 AT 10:00PM EST WE'RE GOING TO RUN BOTH PARTS OF IT, THE ORIGINAL ONE AND THE SECOND ONE. SO, PART ONE 8:00 PM AND THE SECOND PART 10:00 PM. IF YOU WANT THE TRUTH, KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN, EARS PEELED AND COME RIGHT BACK HERE TO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" D AT THE BUY INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. SOMETIMES IT'S DIFFICULT. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. [MUSIC]
