[MUSIC] >> Doug: AND WELCOME ONCE AGAIN TO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." I'M DOUG KECK, YOUR GUIDE. AND OF COURSE, WE APPRECIATE YOU SHOWING UP EACH WEEK AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. AND THE SHOW REALLY REQUIRES YOUR INPUT SO YOU CAN EMAIL US QUESTIONS, FACEBOOK QUESTIONS, TWEET US ON TWITTER. AND FOR LOTS OF DIFFERENT INFORMATION, GO TO THE magiscenter.com WHERE FATHER SPITZER MATERIAL RESIDES THROUGH crediblecatholic.com AND THIS IS AS THE NEXT FIVE PARTS OF THE MASS, LITURGY OF THE EUCHARIST. THE CENTRAL ASPECT OF OUR WORSHIP. AND THE BOOK OF THE MONTH AS WE MENTION EVERY WEEK HERE ON THE PROGRAM IS A WONDERFUL BOOK COMING UP BY FATHER WADE MEN EASES, OVERCOMING WITHIN. AND INCLUDING A WONDERFUL LENTEN BOOK THAT HIS CONFREAR DID SWELL FOR THE MONTH OF FEBRUARY BUT NOW THAT WE'RE IN MARCH, THIS IS FATHER WADE'S BOOK. AND BOTH WONDERFUL BOOKS TO PICK UP DURING LENT. AND SPEAKING OF PICKING UP, LET'S HEAD OVER TO THE WEST COAST WITH FATHER SPITZER. HOW ARE YOU DOING? >> Father: I'M DOING WELL, HOW ABOUT YOU, DOUG? >> Doug: MOVING INTO THE FIRST FULL WEEK OF LENT. LET'S START OFF WITH A PRAYER. >> Father: YOU BET. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. HEAVENLY FATHER, WE GIVE YOU THANKS FOR THE MANY BLESSINGS TO US, ESPECIALLY THE BLESSING OF THE LENTEN SEASON, A TIME TO REFLECT ON YOUR MERCY AND YOUR GOODNESS TO BRING OUR FAULTS, OUR SINS BEFORE YOU, AND TO TRY TO MAKE THE SACRIFICES THAT WILL ENRICH OUR EASTER EXPERIENCE. HELP US, LORD, WITH ALL OF OUR RESOLVE, RESOLUTION INS THIS PARTICULAR SEASON AND PLEASE, DO BRING THEM TO FRUITION IN REAL GOODNESS AND LOVE. WE ASK THIS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. AMEN. MARY, SEAT OF WISDOM, PRAY FOR US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND THE W OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> Doug: AMEN. AND AS WE TALKED LAST WEEK, WHEN WE WERE JUST GET SWOAG LENT ABOUT THE WONDERFUL RESEARCH SURVEY THAT EWTN WAS PART OF, FACTS AND FIGURES ABOUT THE CATHOLICS BELIEVE NOT ONLY THE MOST ENCOURAGING BUT PEOPLE CAN FIND THE ENTIRE INFORMATION ON OUR CNA WEB SITE. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT JUMPED OUT AT ME FROM THE PARTICULAR INFORMATION THAT CAME OUT SO FAR -- AND THERE'S GOING TO BE TWO MORE POLLS AND PEOPLE CAN LOOK FORWARD TO THAT -- BUT MORE CATHOLICS THAT SAY THEY ACCEPT THE CATHOLIC DOCTRINE RECEIVED AN UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE FROM A RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION RATHER THAN SECULAR BUT SETTLEMENT IT WAS THE NUMBERS HERE. AND I'M INTERESTED IN WHAT'S YOUR PERSPECTIVE AS BEING THE PRESIDENT OF A CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY. >> Father: OBVIOUSLY, THE INTENTION OF TEACHING THEOLOGY IS TO NOT ONLY GIVE YOU A GREATER UNDERSTANDING BUT A DEEPER BELIEF IN THAT DOCTRINE AND THE STATISTIC OTHER THAN WHAT IT IS. BUT AS YOU SAY, IT'S NOT A LARGE PERCENTAGE DIFFERENTIAL. SO IT PROBABLY MEANS THAT WE'RE NOT DOING THAT GREAT OF A JOB ON MAKING INTELLIGIBLE THE CHURCH DOCTRINES AND AS YOU OFTEN KNOW, THERE ARE PROFESSORS THAT ACTUALLY UNDERMINE CHURCH DOCTRINE AND DOESN'T HELP AT ALL. CERTAINLY DOESN'T HELP WHAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD OR THE CAUSE OF JESUS, WHY WE RETAIN THOSE PROFESSORS I DO NOT KNOW BUT I'M SURE IT'S UNDER SOME GREAT RUBRIC OF ACADEMIC FREEDOM. BUT AT SOME POINT, IF YOU ARE REALLY TEACHING CATHOLIC THEOLOGY, YOU HAVE TO AT LEAST PITCH IN FOR THE MISSION OF THE UNIVERSITY AND HELP TO STRENGTHEN THE FAITH OF THESE KIDS, THESE GOOD STUDENTS AND NOT JUST TO BAT IDEAS AROUND. >> Doug: LET ME ASK YOU THIS. YOU OBVIOUSLY HAD THAT EXPERIENCE. BUT WHY DO PEOPLE WHO REALLY IN THAT WAY, WHO DON'T BELIEVE, WHY DO THEY STAY? >> Father: YOU MEAN IN A TEACHING POSITION? >> Doug: RIGHT, WHY STICK AROUND A CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY. WHY DO THEY STAY? >> Father: IT'S CURIOUS TO ME. BUT I SUPPOSE THAT THEY THINK THEIR MISSION IS TO MODERNIZE THE CHURCH OR SOMETHING OF THIS NATURE RATHER THAN TO HELP THE CHURCH THAT JESUS INITIATED. AND IT'S A VERY WRONG MISSION. BUT I THINKING THEY HAVE CONVINCED THEMSELVES ENOUGH. OR PERHAPS THEY NEED A JOB ENOUGH OR PERHAPS BOTH THAT THEY GO AHEAD AND CONTINUE TO DO THESE SORT OF THINGS. BUT I REALLY DO BELIEVE THAT IT'S UNINTELLIGIBLE IN EVERY WAY. AND THINK FOR THE SAKE OF AUTHENTICITY AND FOR THE SAKE OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD JESUS, WHO STARTED THIS CHURCH, GUIDES THE CHURCH, AND PROMISED THAT HE WOULD NEVER LET THIS CHURCH FAIL, THAT THEY OUGHT TO BE TRYING TO ENFORCE THE DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH, NOT UNDERMINE IT. >> Doug: ALL RIGHT. AND LET'S MOVE INTO THE QUESTIONS BECAUSE WE HAVE QUITE A FEW BEFORE WE GET INTO THE TOPIC TALKING ABOUT THE LITURGY OF THE EUCHARIST. DEAR FR. SPITZER, I UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF REDEMPTIVE SUFFERING AND HAVE TRIED TO OFFER MY SUFFERING FOR YEARS. I RECENTLY COMPLETED "33 DAYS TO MORNING GLORY" AND CONSECRATED MY LIFE TO JESUS THROUGH MARY. VERY POPULAR BOOK AVAILABLE THROUGH ewtnRC.com. IS MY SUFFERING WORTH MORE NOW THAN BEFORE? THANK YOU, NINA. >> Father: WELL, I WOULDN'T SAY PER SE WORTH MORE, BUT CERTAINLY IF YOU ARE OFFERING YOUR SUFFERING WHEREAS YOU HAD NOT DONE IT BEFORE AND YOUR SPIRIT OF OFFERING THAT SUFFERING IS A SPIRIT OF FREEDOM AND TRUST IN THE LORD AND THAT IT LEADS TO YOU AN EVER GREATER SENSIBILITY OF WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR OTHERS AND OFFERING IT UP AND TAKING THE LESSONS OF SUFFERING AND HELPING THEM TO SUFFER WELL, I THINK, YES, YOU COULD SAY THAT IT'S WORTH MORE THAN BEFORE. AND CERTAINLY YOU ARE RECEIVING MORE BENEFIT THAN YOU DID BEFORE, SPIRITUAL BENEFIT AS WELL AS JUST EVEN EMOTIONAL BENEFIT. AND YOU ARE HELPING OTHERS TO RECEIVE MORE BENEFIT FROM THEIR SUFFERING THAN WAS THE CASE BEFORE. SO, ALL OF THESE THINGS MAKE IT, IF I CAN PUT IT THAT WAY, YES, MUCH BETTER SUFFERING AND I CALL IT MUCH MORE EFFICACIOUS SUFFERING TOWARD YOUR END OF SALVATION AND THE OTHER END OF PEOPLES' SALVATION AS WELL. >> Doug: OKAY. THERE'S ANOTHER WORD. EXPLAIN WHAT EFFICACIOUS MEANS. >> Father: OH, JUST MEANS THAT IT IS DOING SOMETHING, EFFICACY MEANS THAT IT HAS GOOD EFFECTS. SO, IT MEANS THAT IT'S BASICALLY DOING SOMETHING GOOD, HAVING A GOOD EFFECT, HAVING GOOD RESULTS FROM YOUR EFFORTS. >> Doug: ALL RIGHT. OKAY. VERY GOOD. NEXT UP. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, OUR DAUGHTER DIED LAST YEAR IN A CAR ACCIDENT. SHE WAS PRONOUNCED DEAD IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM AND AFTERWARDS A PRIEST PERFORMED LAST RITES ON HER. WE ASKED IF IT DID ANY GOOD AND HE REPLIED THAT WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE WHEN THE SOUL LEAVES THE BODY SO HE WILL ALWAYS PERFORM LAST RITES IF GIVEN THE CHANCE. DOES NOT OUR SOUL LEAVE IMMEDIATELY WHEN WE DIE? CAROLINE. AND OF COURSE, WE PASS ALONG OUR CONDOLENCES. >> Father: YEAH, I DO PASS ON MY CONDOLENCES, JUST A TERRIBLE THING TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR DAUGHTER. BUT YOU WILL BE REUNITED WITH HER. SO, HAVE HOPE, AND JUST PATIENCE IN A WAY WITH THE WAIT TO GO RECONNECT WITH HER. BUT LET'S GET TO THE MATTER AT HAND. YES, THE SOUL DOES LEAVE THE BODY. AND IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE, YOU CAN RECEIVE CONSIDERABLE EVIDENCE FOR THIS AS WELL. THROUGH NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES. AND I THINKING THAT THERE'S ALMOST UPON DEATH, THE SOUL DOES LEAVE THE BODY AND SOMETIMES REMAINS IN THE OPERATING ROOM, LOOKING OVER THINGS AND SO FORTH, IT DOES NOT NECESSARILY GO IMMEDIATELY TO A HEAVENLY DOMAIN. ALTHOUGH, SOMETIMES IT MAY, SOMETIMES IT DOES STAY IN THE OPERATING ROOM FOR TWO OR THREE OR FOUR MINUTES MORE BEFORE IT PROCEEDS ON TO THE HEAVENLY KINGDOM. DURING THAT TIME, WHILE THE SOUL IS STILL PRESENT TO THE BODY, ANY KIND OF, YOU KNOW, ADMINISTRATION OF A SACRAMENT CAN BE VERY, VERY SPIRITUALLY EFFICACIOUS, I'LL USE THAT WORD AGAIN. SPIRITUALLY EFFICACIOUS FOR THE PERSON WHO IS ACTUALLY WITNESSING THIS. ALTHOUGH INSTEAD OF BEING PRESENT TO IT, FROM THEIR BODY, THEY ARE ACTUALLY SEEING IT FROM THEIR BODY ABOVE LOOKING DOWN. BUT THAT'S STILL PRESENT TO IT. SO THAT WOULD BE VERY EFFICACIOUS SPIRITUALLY, AND IN THE HEART AND MIND OF THE PERSON WHO IS WITNESSING THAT ACT. AND I SAY, THE PRIEST IS VERY RIGHT IN DOING THAT. AND THE SOUL DOES LEAVE THE BODY ALL RIGHT, IT'S WHEN DOES IT GO TO THE OTHER WORLD AND DISCONNECTED FROM THE PHYSICAL BODY THAT IT ONCE KNEW. AND THERE CAN BE A SIGNIFICANT TIME LAG SO I SAY, ABSOLUTELY, THE POLICE IS CORRECT IN SAYING, YES, I'M GOING TO GIVE IT WHENEVER I HAVE THE CHANCE. >> Doug: RIGHT. AND WOULD YOU SAY THAT SINCE GOD IS BEYOND TIME, THAT HE'S NOT JUST CONSTRICTED BY THAT PARTICULAR TIME EITHER, JUST THE FACT THAT THAT WAS DONE. > Father: THAT IS TRUE. THAT IS TRUE. HE KNOWS THAT THAT SACRAMENT WAS, IS ABOUT TO BE ADMINISTERED IN A FEW EARTH MOMENTS. BUT HE ALREADY KNOWS THAT IT HAS BEEN MINISTERED IN HIS OWN TIME WHICH IS ETERNAL NOW, ETERNAL PRESENT. SO, YES, VERY TRULY, HE CERTAINLY IS NOT BOUND BY OUR TIME. AND SO, THE SACRAMENT CAN HAVE EFFICACY FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW TOO. >> Father: DEFINITELY. NEXT UP. DEAR FR. SPITZER, I WATCHED MY WIFE DIE FROM CANCER LAST FALL. SHE SUFFERED TREMENDOUSLY IN HER FINAL WEEKS. GOD GAVE US MANY WONDERFUL MEDICINES TO HELP EASE HER SUFFERING. WHY COULD WE NOT USE THIS MEDICINE TO END HER SUFFERING INSTEAD? I THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EASIER ON HER AND HER FAMILY SINCE SHE WAS GOING TO DIE ANYWAY. JAMES. ALL RIGHT. AND NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOME VERSION OF EUTHANASIA. >> Father: RIGHT. ACTIVE EUTHANASIA. JAMES, YOU REALLY CANNOT MERCY KILL ANYBODY. IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT THIS IS NOT JUST THE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. THIS IS THE TEACHING ALSO OF JESUS. AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS, THE TIMING OF HAD DEATH IS GOD AND GOD'S ALONE. IT IS NOT UP TO TO US TO PREEMPT HIS TIMING. IF GOD HAS A REASON FOR LETTING YOUR WIFE LIVE TO THE TIME WHEN HE DID, HE HAS HIS REASONS. THINGS CAN HAPPEN. I CAN TELL YOU, MORE THINGS CAN HAPPEN AT THE TIME OF DEATH THAN YOU CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE EVEN WHEN A PERSON IS SUFFERING. THERE'S AN EXTENSIVE LITERATURE OF A WHOLE AREA OF DEATH BED VISIONS, EXTENSIVE. I'VE SAID ON THIS PROGRAM, MY GRANDFATHER HAD ONE THAT MADE A DIFFERENCE TO THE LIVES OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS. HE WAS TALKING TO THE ANGELS BEFORE HIS DEATH. HE BASICALLY LOOKED UP AT ONE POINT AND SAID, FINALLY, CAN I GO NOW. AND EVERYBODY SAID, YES. AND HE JUST DYES. EVERYBODY WAS SHOCKED. JUST SHOCKED. DIES. AND EVERYBODY WAS SHOCKED. JUST SHOCKED. BUT HE CERTAINLY WAS, BECAUSE HE INTERRUPTED THE CONVERSATION AND SAID, CAN I LEAVE. AND HE GOT TAKEN WITH THE ANGELS. AND HE IS WITH GOD NOW AND WITH THEM. BUT MY POINT I'M MAKING IS, THERE'S EXTENSIVE LITERATURE ON THIS. AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN GOD HAS IT PLANNED FOR YOUR LOVED ONE TO RECEIVE SUCH A REVELATION. YOU ABSOLUTELY DO NOT KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THERE, IN YOUR MIND, AND WE KNOW THAT FROM EXTENSIVE STUDIES ON TERMINAL LUCIDITY. AND PEOPLE COME BACK AN HOUR BEFORE THEIR DEATH EVEN BEFORE THEY MAY BE HAVE SEVERE ALZHEIMER'S CASE OR MAY HAVE BEEN MENTALLY CHALLENGED FROM THE TIME THEY WERE LITTLE KIDS BECAUSE OF OXYGEN DEPRIVATION OR WHATEVER. AND WE KNOW THEY HAVE COME BACK AND SEEN AND EXPERIENCED SO MUCH THAT THEY WERE NOT EVEN REMOTELY AWARE OF. AND T THE POINT I'M TRYING TO GT BACK TO, DON'T EVER SECOND GUESS GOD'S TIMING. IT'S NOT UP TO US TO KILL ANYBODY FOR EVEN IF IT SEEMS A GOOD REASON FOR LETTING PEOPLE SUFFER AS LONG. GOD HAS HIS REASONS. WE HAVE TO RESPECT THEM. AND WE CAN'T PREEMPT THEM FROM HAPPENING. AND THAT'S WHY JESUS AND THE CHURCH BASICALLY PROHIBIT IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS MERCY KILLING, YOU KNOW, GIVING A HUGE DOSE OF MORPHINE, TO KILL A PERSON EVEN IF YOU ARE PUTTING THEM OUT OF THEIR MERCY. AND POINT OF FACT, YOU SHOULD LET THEM DO THAT. YOU SHOULD LET THEM DIE A DEATH THAT THE LORD WANTS ACCORDING TO THE TIMING HE WANTS. SO THAT'S WHY THE WAY THAT A CHURCH DOES MAKE A DISTINCTION FROM REMOVING SOMEBODY FROM A VENTILATOR BECAUSE THAT PERSON CAN NO LONGER DIVING ON THEIR OWN. AND IF YOU TAKE THEM OFF A VENTILATOR, WHAT THE CHURCH CALLS EXTRAORDINARY MEANS THAT PERSON DIES A NATURAL DEATH ACCORDING TO GOD'S TIMING. AND WE CAN MOVE ARTIFICIAL MEANS BEYOND EXTENDING THEM TO ARTIFICIAL CAPACITY BUT WE CANNOT GIVE THEM AN EXTRA SHOT OF MORPHINE TO BASICALLY KILL A PERSON THAT WOULD BE PREEMPTING GOD'S OWN TIMING MANIFESTING ITSELF IN THE COURSE OF NATURE. SO, I HOPE THAT HELPS YOU, JAMES. I KNOW YOUR WIFE SUFFERED AND I KNOW YOU DIDN'T WANT TO SEE HER SUFFER. BUT I ASSURE YOU GOD BROUGHT SOME VERY IMPORTANT, GOOD THINGS OUT OF THAT SUFFERING. AND MAYBE NOT JUST FOR HER BUT ALSO FOR THE PEOPLE AROUND HER. GOUG THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU. LOTS OF TIMES, YOU CAN SITE THERE AND SAY, AT ONE LEVEL, MAYBE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT GOD IS WORKING THROUGH IN THAT PARTICULAR PERSON THAT'S SUFFERING, BUT YOU STILL HAVE THE EXTENSION OF THAT, THAT RIPPLE EFFECT OF THE FAMILY AND OTHERS WHO MAYBE ARE BEING ASKED TO SACRIFICE OR REACH OUT MORE AND DO THINGS BEYOND THEIR COMFORT ZONE WHILE THEY ARE GOING THROUGH THROUGH IT NOW BUT SOMETIME IN THE SPHUTURE -- IN FUTURE, THEY MAY SEE THE POSITIVE IMPACT OF SOMEBODY% GOING THROUGH THAT. >> Father: EXACTLY. AND WHEN YOU GET RIGHT DOWN TO IT, MY THOUGHT IS, THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS THAT A DYING PERSON CAN GIVE. MOST ESPECIALLY FORGIVENESS OF OTHERS THAT MAYBE NEED TO BE FORGIVEN. MAYBE SOMETIMES NEGATIVE WISDOM OR IN THE CASE OF MY GRANDFATHER, TALKING TO THE ANGEST, IT WAS COMPLETELY UNINTENDED BY HIM. AND HE WAS NOT GIVING ANYTHING AWAY. BUT EVERYTHING WAS -- EVERY ONE WAS WATCHING HIM TALKING TO THE ANGELS AND HE SAYS, CAN I GO NOW. AND THEN THEY SAY YES AND HE DICE INSTANTLY, PRESUMABLY INTO THE HANDS OF THE ANGELS. AND YOU KNOW, THAT SPOKE VOLUMES TO MY FAMILY. YOU JUST NEVER KNOW HOW MUCH GOOD THIS CAN DO FOR ALL KIND OF PEOPLE AROUND YOU. SO MY POINT IS, DON'T SECOND GUESS GOD'S TIMING. HE HAS MORE GOOD THINGS IN MIND, EVEN FOR A SUFFERING PERSON TO DO THAN WE CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE. GOODS FOR THEM, GOODS FOR THE PEOPLE AROUND THEM, AND EVEN GOODS THAT CAN BE OFFERED UP FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. >> Doug: RIGHT. RIGHT. AND ALSO, AS YOU HAVE COMMENTED ON PRIOR PROGRAMS, THE IDEA THAT THERE'S ALSO, IN EFFECT, THE ACTUAL HUMAN IMPACT OF THIS THAT WE'VE SEEN HISTORICALLY THROUGH HISTORY IS THAT WHENEVER THIS MINDSET IS PUT FORWARD, HOWEVER BENEVOLENT, WE END UP WITH NAZI GERMANY, WE END UP WITH WHAT'S GOING ON WITH SOME OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE YOU END UP HAVING PEOPLE X HE HAD OUT AND THE FRIDAY AFTERNOON, DOCTOR DOESN'T WANT TO BE CALLED OUT OVER THE WEEKEND. >> Father: RIGHT. THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF ABUSES. AND WE KNOW FROM THE REPORT OUT OF THE NETHERLANDS A- LOT OF THE EUTHANASIA, ACTIVE EUTHANASIA, THAT IS TO SAY MERCY KILLING, THE EXTRA SHOT OF MORPHINE, LETHAL INJECTION. WE KNOW THAT IT WAS NOT ASKED FOR. IT WAS INVOLUNTARY. AND THAT THE PERCENTAGE OF THE INVOLUNTARY EUTHANASIA HAS GONE UP OVER THE YEARS. AND THAT'S WHERE THE DOCTOR IS MAKING THE DECISION, OH, YEAH, WELL, THIS PERSON DOESN'T REALLY HAVE MUCH TO LIVE FOR. LET'S JUST GIVE THEM THE FINAL BOOSTER HERE. AND HE'S KIND OF OUT OF IT AND IN AND OUT OF IT AGAIN. WELL, I'LL MAKE THE DECISION FOR HIM, PUT HIM OUT OF HIS MISERY, QUOTE, UNQUOTE. AND THIS IS HAPPENING MORE AND MORE OFTEN BY DOCTOR DECISION RATHER THAN THE VOLUNTARY DECISION OF THE PERSON OR THEIR RELATIVES. CLEARLY, THAT'S AN ABUSE THAT E SEE MORE AND MORE. THEN, YOU HAVE THE OTHER KINDS OF ABUSE, ACTIVE ENCOURAGEMENT OF ASSISTED SUICIDE. AND THE PHENOMENON OF THE SUICIDE WAGONS WHERE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN CALL UP A SERVICE AND SAY, OH, I'VE DECIDED TODAY'S MY LAST DAY. YOU KNOW, COULD YOU SEND OVER THE OLE WAGON THERE. AND THEY HAVE IT ATTACHED AND HAVE IT DISPATCHED A FEW MINUTES AFTER THE WAGON, AND YOU KNOW, NO MESS, NO FUSS, SUICIDE ON DEMAND. HAVE YOU TO PULL THE TRIGGER THERE FOR THE ATTACHMENT TO FINALLY DISPATCH YOU AS IT WERE. >> AND FINALLY, YOU WOULD HAVE TO SAY, CLEARLY THIS SN ABUSE. ACTIVE ABUSE OF SUICIDE, YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. HOW CAN THAT BE GOOD FOR CULTURE. HOW CAN THAT PROMOTE THE VALUE OF THE HUMAN LIFE. HOW CAN THAT REPRESENT TO PROMOTE IN ANY WAY, THE VIRTUE OF SUFFERING WELL. HOW CAN THIS PROMOTE IN ANY WAY, THE SENSE OF ANY TYPE OF COMPASSION, BUILDING A COMMUNITY OF COMPASSION AROUND A LOVED ONE PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST IN REAL EXTREMISTS. AND IT'S THE REVERSE OF ANYTHING GOOD, ANYTHING COMPASSIONATE, LOVING, AND JUST FILLED WITH DEATH, DARKNESS, AND DEATH IS THE ABSOLUTE SOLUTION TO ANY PROBLEM WHICH OF COURSE, THAT'S A DARK SOLUTION, A LACK OF HOPE, LITTLE WONDER, 51% INCREASE IN SUICIDES, IN THE LAST 15 YEARS, AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE. 51%. AND 46% INCREASE IN DEPRESSION RATES AMONGST YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE LAST 15 YEARS. NO WONDER. THEY ARE LIVING IN A SOCIETY THAT ACTIVELY PROMOTES SUICIDE. A SOCIETY THAT ACTUALLY SAYS, YOU CAN FLIRT WITH THE DEVIL, JUST WATCH THIS PROGRAM ON HOW DEVIL WORSHIP GETS YOU WHAT YOU WANT. A LITTLE WONDER BECAUSE WE LIVE IN THE SOCIETY THAT SHOWS ON NETFLIX, 13 REASONS WHY. 13 REASONS WHY WHAT? HOW TO COMMITCIDE? OR HOW COME YOU THOA SUBMIT SUICIDE AS A -- COMMIT SUICIDE AS A YOUNG PERSON. I MEAN, JUST ANOTHER DISTRACK THAT NOBODY HAS TIME FOR GOD. AND AS I SAY, AMERICAN, PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION STUDY. THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT RISE IN SUICIDES, DEPRESSION, IMPULSIVITY, ANTISOCIAL AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND FAMILIAL TENSIONS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE NON RELIGIOUSLY AFFILIATED COMPARED TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE RELIGIOUSLY AFFILIATED. REMEMBER, THERE'S A CORRELATION, SIGNIFICANT CORRELATION BETWEEN ALL OF THE NEGATIVE THINGS THAT WE SEE OUR YOUNG PEOPLE EXPERIENCING AND A LOSS OF GOD. AND THERE ARE, WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT ACTIVELY PROMOTES THE LOSS OF GOD, AN APATHY, ALMOST, A YAWNING BORROWED BORED THAT MAKES THEIR LIFE SO MUCH MORE INTERESTING, HOPE-FILLED, PURPOSEFUL, AND SO MUCH MORE HAPPY. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? YEAH, WE GOT AN ABHORRENT SOCIETY. LITTLE WONDER WHY OUR KIDS ARE UNDER A DARK SHADOW INFLUENCED BY THE DEMON. >> Doug: RIGHT, THEY TRY TO FILL THEMSELVES UP WITH WHAT SOCIETY SAYS TO FILL THEM UP WITH. AND THEY FALL INTO DESPAIR BECAUSE THEY SAY, WHAT AM I GOING TO DO NOW. >> Doug: OKAY. NEXT UP. DEAR FR. SPITZER, WHEN WE HAVE SACRAMENTAL, IS IT NECESSARY TO SAY A PARTICULAR PRAYER OF EXORCISM, OR DOES THE PRIEST'S BLESSING AUTOMATICALLY MAKE IT AN INSTRUMENT OF EXORCISM? HOW OFTEN SHOULD IT BE USED? SINCERELY IN THE HOLY FAMILY, JANET. >> Father: WELL, JANET, YOU CAN USE BLESSED SALT. THE BLESSING IS SUFFICIENT. BUT IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THAT MORE SIGNIFICANT, THERE'S MORE PRAYERS OF DEL DELIVERANCE, OR A PLACE THAT YOU CAN USE, I THINKING, IF YOU JUST GO TO YOUR SEARCH ENGINE THERE AND PUT THAT IN THERE, BLESSINGS OF A HOME OR DELIVERANCE OF PRAYERS FOR A PLACE, YOU CAN GET SOME VERY GOOD DELIVERANCE PRAYERS TO SAY FOR THE USE OF THE SALT. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BRING IN A PRIEST TO BLESS THE HOUSE. YOU CAN OBVIOUSLY ASK THE PARISH PRIEST TO COME IN AND BLESS YOUR HOUSE. WHY NOT. AND HE CAN USE YOUR OWN SALT OR HIS OWN SALT, AND ALL IS GOOD. YOU DON'T NEED THE PRAYERS. THE SALT IS GOOD. BUT THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE A PRAYER THERE. IT GALVANIZES YOUR INTENTION TO USE THE SACRED SALT IN AN INTENTIONAL WAY TO MAKE THE PLACE HOLY ESPECIALLY IF THERE'S A MANIFESTATION OF SOMETHING DARK IN THAT PLACE. >> Doug: AND WITHOUT ENCOURAGING YOU TO GO OUT AND SEARCHING FOR THESE OCCURRENCES OR TAKING IT UPON YOURSELF. >> RIGHT. MINI-EXCYST HERE. >> NOW, NEXT QUESTION. DEAR FATHER, MY QUESTION IS, GOD IS ALL KNOWING. GOD KNEW THEN THAT HIS ANGEL OF LIGHT WOULD BE CONSUMED WITH PRIDE AND TURN INTO THE DEVIL. WHY DID HE GO AHEAD AND CREATE HIM? LARRY. >> Father: LARRY, GOD WANTED TO CREATE FREE CREATURES AND IN ORDER TO DO THAT, HE HAD TO ALLOW THEM TO BE FREE. SO, THAT'S THE RISK YOU TAKE CREATING A CREATURE THAT'S NOT JUST PROGRAMMED BY YOU. THE LORD WANTED TO CREATE FREE CREATURES LIKE US, LIKE THE ANGELS, THAT COULD ACTUALLY CHOOSE TO LOVE OUT OF THEMSELVES. INSTEAD OF CHOOSING LOVE, MINE, WOULDN'T BE A CHOICE, INSTEAD OF ACTING IN A LOVING WAY BECAUSE IT WAS PROGRAMMED INTO THEM. SO, JUST THINK OF IT THIS WAY. IF YOU ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO CHOOSE TO LOVE, LIKE GOD LOVES. IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A CHOICE, THEN HAVE YOU TO HAVE A CHOICE NOT TO LOVE. TO DO THE OPPOSITE OF LOVE. AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN GOD HAS TO CREATE EVERY CREATURE WITH THE CAPACITY TO FREELY CHOOSE. SO, YOU ARE THINKING TO YOURSELF, WELL, GOD WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT LUCIFER WAS GOING TO BASICALLY WIND UP CHOOSING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION SO WHY DIDN'T HE JUST ELIMINATE HIM WHEN HE NEEDED TO CREATE THINGS. BECAUSE IF GOD ELIMINATED EVERYBODY THAT WAS CHOOSING WRONGLY, THEN HE REALLY WOULD BE USING HIS FORE KNOWLEDGE TO ELIMINATE THE POSSIBILITY OF FREE CHOICE AGAINST SOMETHING. SO, BASICALLY, GOD HAS TO SORT OF CREATE CREATURES AND LET THEM DO WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO, THAT'S THE FREE CHOICE HE MADE. AND OF COURSE, THAT'S WHY THERE IS A HELL. BECAUSE IN ALL ETERNITY, THESE DEMONS ARE NOT GOING TO BE IN THE PLACE OF THE BLESSED, NAMELY, HEAVEN. THEY ARE GOING TO BE DOWN IN HELL TRYING TO DOMINATE ONE ANOTHER, TRYING TO BE ABSOLUTE NARCISSISTS OR SELF IDOL TOSSER, AND C.S. LEWIS HAS THE IMAGE OF WHERE HOUSES GET FURTHER AND FURTHER AWAY FROM EACH OTHER OVER THE COURSE OF TIME SO EVENTUALLY YOU DON'T HAVE TO SEE EACH OTHER BECAUSE EVERYBODY IN HELL IS A SOURCE OF HELL ITSELF. OR AS WAS POINTED OUT A LONG TIME AGO, HELL IS OTHER PEOPLE. BUT IN HEAVEN, THE PERSPECTIVE IS HEAVEN IS OTHER PEOPLE AND GOD. SO, IT'S THE EXACT OPPOSITE. SO, YOU CAN PRETTY MUCH SEE THAT GOD HAD TO LET LUCIFER DO WHAT LUCIFER WAS DOING. AND HE TAKES CARE OF THE PROBLEM. >> Doug: AND HE CONTINUES TO LET THAT HAPPEN IN THE WORLD WHICH MAKES MANY OF US UPSET OR MYSTIFIED OR SEEMS LIKE EVIL WINS SO OFTEN. >> Father: EVIL WINS BECAUSE HUMAN FREEDOM CHOOSES THE WRONG PATH. REMEMBER, WE ARE GIVEN MANY CHOICES. EVIL CAN WIN FOR A WHILE. BUT SOMETIMES, AS CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD HAVE IT, PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR MINDS. LOOK AT ST. AUGUSTINE. HE WAS DEFINITELY ON THE WRONG TRACK. AND HE DEFINITELY GOT ON THE RIGHT TRACK. AND HE HAD HIS MOTHER MONICA THERE TRYING TO INTERCEDE FOR HIM IN PRAYER AND SHE WOULDN'T GO AWAY. AND SHE TOOK THE SHIP TO FO FOLLOW HIM AND MAKE SURE THAT HE SAW AMBROSE WITH HER LAST DYING BREATH. AND SHE WAS RIGHT. WHEN SHE GOT HOLD OF AMBROSE, AND GOT AUGUSTINE TO LISTEN TO AMBROSE, YOU CAN IMAGINE THE GOOD THAT IT DID. IT CHANGED HIS LIFE COMPLETELY. AND WE HAVE ONE OF THE GREATEST DOCTOR OF THE CHURCH TODAY. AND IT'S A MYSTERY, GOD DIDN'T WANT TO JUST CREATE ROBOTS TO DO HIS WILL, OR DO HIS PROGRAM. HE REALLY WANTED TO CREATE FREE CREATURES THAT COULD GO AGAINST HIM IF THEY CHOSE. AND YOU HAVE TO ALLOW FOR THE POSSIBILITY THAT SOME CREATURES DO THAT. AND HE ALLOWS SATAN TO DO WHAT HE DOES, TO THIS VERY DAY BECAUSE WE'RE FREE AND SPIRITUAL TEMPTATION IS PART OF THE CHOICES THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE. >> ACTUALLY, IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE OF THE INTERNET, SO MUH INFORMATION OUT THERE, HISTORICAL INFORMATION OUT THERE, AND YOU READ ABOUT IT YEARS LATER AFTER THEY WERE FLAMING THROUGH, THE HIGHLIGHT OF THE UNIVERSE, MANY TIMES UNFORTUNATELY, YOU SEE THE WRECKAGE OF THOSE PEOPLES' LIVES AND THINGS THAT HAPPENS AFTER THEY HAVE CRASHED AND THAT'S TOO BLESSED FOR US, TOO. >> Father: ABSOLUTELY. AND I THINKING THAT WE JUST NEED TO TAKE COUNCIL, BECAUSE THE COUNCIL OF DARKNESS LEADS TO DARKNESS. AND THE COUNCIL OF LIGHT LEADS TO THE LIGHT. FOLLOW THE LIGHT AND LEAD IT TO JESUS CHRIST. >> Doug: AND THE LIGHT IN THE STUDIO IS FLASHING SO WE NEED TO TAKE A BREAK. WE'RE RIGHT HERE IN THE HEART OF "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" AND WE'RE GOING TO TALK FURTHER ABOUT THE LITURGY OF THE EUCHARIST AND MORE QUESTIONS RIGHT AFTER WE TAKE THIS SHORT BREAK. STAY WITH US. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] >> AND WE ARE BACK HERE IN THE HEART OF "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." WE'RE IN THE SECOND WEEK OF LENT. AND TALKING ABOUT THE HEART OF THE EUCHARIST, I WANTED TO MENTION THE BOOK, MOTHER ANGELICA'S BOOK. AND EDITED BY FATHER MARY JOSEPH. AND LENT, WITH THE WAY THE CROSS IS SO CENTRAL TO ALL OF OUR LENTEN REFLECTIONS AS WE MOVE FORWARD IN THE NEXT 40 DAYS. I WANTED TO MENTION THAT TO YOU FROM OUR RELIGIOUS CATALOGUE. AND ALSO, FATHER SPITZER'S BOOKS AND MATERIALS ARE HERE AND NICE ENOUGH TO DO THAT FOR US. HERE THROUGH THE RELIGIOUS CATALOG. LET'S GET TO THE OTHER QUESTIONS. SOME OF THEM WERE TOUGH BUT I FIGURED ONCE A MONTH, YOU ARE GOING TO GET ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE DISCUSSED. SO, NEXT UP. DEAR FR. SPITZER, IN GENESIS 3:24, GOD DROVE ADAM AND EVE OUT OF THE GARDEN AND PLACED ANGELS AND A FLAMING SWORD TO GUARD THE TREE OF LIFE. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE THAT WAS, AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THE TREE AND THE CHERUBIM AND THE FLAMING SWORDS? THANK YOU, JULIE. >> Father: WELL, JULIE, THIS COMES DOWN TO MATTER OF THE EXPRESSION, METAPHORICAL EXPRESSIONS OR NOT. ARE THEY INTENDED TO INDICATE THE VARIABLE OF WHAT MAN WAS AT THE TIME AND WHAT HE HAS BECOME AFTER THE FALL. SO, THERE'S A DISCUSSION AMONGST ORTHODOX SCRIPTURE THEOLOGIANS AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT, DOES MA MEAN THAT THERE'S ACTUALLY A PLACE ON THIS EARTH CALLED EDEN. THERE COULD WELL HAVE BEEN A PLACE ON THIS EARTH CALLED EDEN. AND I WOULD SAY, THERE'S A FIRST ADAM AND EVE, FIRST ENSOLD ADAM AND EVE. AND THINK YOU KNOW THAT OCCURRED AROUND 70,000 YEARS AGO BECAUSE THAT'S THE FIRST MANIFESTATION OF A SOUL I CAN SEE FOR A COMPLETE CHANGE IN HOMONYMS, HOMO SAPIENS SAPIEN AND EVEN WITH OUR GENETIC RELATIVES, CHROMOSOME ADAM AND MIGHT CONNED REEL EVE, BUT SEEMS 270,000 YEARS AGO, MATHEMATICS, CONCEPTUAL LANGUAGE, MORALITY AND LAW, BURYING OF THE DEAD, RELIGIOUS SIGNIFICANCE, SYMBOLIC STUFF AND GEOGRAPHICAL CAPACITY, ALL OF THESE THINGS CHANGED COMPLETELY OVERNIGHT. PROBABLY RIGHT ABOUT THEN. AND I THINKING THERE WAS A PLACE WHERE THE FALL TOOK PLACE. AND LET'S CALL THAT, WHATEVER WE WANT TO CALL THAT, CALL IT THE GARDEN OF EDEN, IF WE WANT TO CALL IT THAT. AND HOWEVER WE USE IT. BUT I DO THINK THAT WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE FALL WAS A COMPLETE TRANSITION OF HUMAN BEINGS FROM A STATE OF BEING AT ONE WITH GOD AND IN A FRIENDSHIP WITH GOD VERSUS ONE THAT WAS WEAKENED SIGNIFICANTLY, RIGHT, BY WHAT ACTUALLY HAD OCCURRED THERE BY THIS SIN. THIS FREE ACT OF REBELLION AGAINST A GOD THAT CLEARLY LOVED THEM AND PROVIDED FOR THEM. AND THEY WANTED TO BECOME, AS IT WERE, GOD'S THEMSELVES. THINK SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND TOOK PLACE, I THINKING AFTER THAT, SOMETHING CHANGED. AND WHETHER OR NOT THE ANGEL WITH THE SWORD REPRESENTS, AS IT WERE, A PLACE. THEOLOGIANS SCRIPTURES EXIGESIS REPRESENT SOMETHING, CERTAINLY REPRESENTING SOMETHING, THE DEMARCATION LINE WHAT WE WERE BEFORE TO NOW WHAT WE ARE AFTER THE FACT. AND THAT MEANS WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO WHAT WE WERE. AND SO NOT GOING BACK TO THE GARDEN OF EDEN, MEANING WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO THE STATE OF INNOCENCE. THAT STATE OF INNOCENCE IS GONE, TO WHICH WE'VE BEEN BROUGHT AND WE NEED THE GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST, WE NEED BAPTISM, WE NEED THE HOLY SPIRIT TO KIND OF HELP US ALONG THE WAY TO OVERCOME THAT CONCUPISCENCE SO THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THROUGH THE SACRAMENTS AND THROUGH OUR OWN EFFORTS, TO TRY TO COMPLY WITH THE TEACHING OF JESUS, WE CAN BBASICALLY OVER COME THAT LOSS F THAT IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BY THE GRACE OF GOD. >> AND HERE'S ANOTHER QUESTION. A DIFFERENT SUBJECT. DEAR FATHER, I SAW A SHOW ON TV ABOUT SÉANCES. ARE MEDIUMS COMMUNICATING WITH THE DEAD, OR IS SATAN USING PSYCHICS TO DECEIVE US? IN MANY CASES, THE MESSAGES FROM THE OTHER SIDE ARE LOVING. WOULD SATAN COMMUNICATE IN THIS MANNER? THIS IS FROM FRED. >> Father: FRED, WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T EVEN GO NEAR A SEANCE. I CAN TELL YOU WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE COMMUNICATING WITH DEAD PEOPLE OR NOT, WHICH IS CERTAINLY A POSSIBILITY, BUT DEMONIC FORCES WILL CERTAINLY USE THE MEDIUM AND UTTERLY DECEPTIVE IN USING THE MEDIUM TO COMMUNICATE WHAT THEY WANT. AND THE PROBLEM IS, YOU CAN NEVER KNOW, FRED. YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU ARE BEING DECEIVED OR NOT. AND YOU THINK, OH, A DEVIL WOULD NEVER USE LOVE. A DEVIL WILL QUOTE SCRIPTURE! OF COURSE, THE DEVIL USES ANY KIND OF FEIGNED LOVING SAYINGS, ET CETERA, TO CONVETERANS YOU TO DO SOMETHING OR -- CONVINCE YOU TO DO SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE NOT MEANT TO BE BY GOD. I WOULD NOT LISTEN TO ANY OF THAT. AND AS I SAID, THE DEVIL QUOTED SCRIPTURE RIGHT THERE IN THE BIBLE, REMEMBER, CURING THE -- DURING THE TEMPTATIONS OF JESUS. AND REMEMBER THAT. THE DEVIL USING ANY MEANS HE WANTS. HE CAN COME WITH THE ANGEL OF LIGHT, COME WITH SUGGESTIONS AND USE THEM RIGHT FROM ST. PAUL. THE DEVIL HIMSELF APPEARS LIKE AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. BEWARE. BEWARE. BEWARE. DON'T GO ANYWHERE NEAR A SEANCE AND DEMONIC FORCES USE THEM, AND VERY DECEPTIVELY AND MUCH MORE SUBTLELY THAN PEOPLE CAN FIGURE OUT. AND THANKS FOR ASKING THE QUESTION BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO BE SAID OFTEN. >> Doug: AND SEEMS LIKE MORE SO TODAY. AND LET'S MOVE OFF THE QUESTIONS FOR THE TOPIC IN THE FINAL 15 MINUTES WE HAVE HERE. LITURGY OF THE EUCHARIST. SACRED EUCHARISTIC LITURGY, THE DEVELOPMENT OF IT, THIS PART OF crediblecatholic.com, THEY CAN FOLLOW ALONG ON THE WEB SITE. THE BEGINNING HERE IS THE OFFERTORY AND THE FACT THAT THE OFFERTORY DATES BACK TO THE EARLY EUCHARISTIC COMMEMORATION BECAUSE IT WAS BORROWED FROM JEWISH CUSTOM. IN WHAT WAY? >> WELL, LET ME JUST GIVE THOSE FIVE PARTS REALLY QUICKLY, THE EUCHARISTIC PRAYER. AND WE BEGIN WITH THE OFFERTORY, THE ONE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IN A SECOND. AND WE HAVE A PREFACE AND WE HAVE THE SANCTUS AND THE EPICLOSE SUS AND THE CONSECRATION WHICH IS THE INSTITUTION OF THE EUCHARIST ITSELF. TRANSFORMATION OF THE BREAD, WINE INTO THE BODY AND BLOOD OF OUR LORD. THOSE PARTS, THIS WAS SET INTO PLACE AND WE KNOW THAT IT'S SET INTO PLACE BECAUSE BASICALLY, WE HAVE THE WHOLE OF EUCHARISTIC PLACE IN THE CANONS OF HIPPOLYTUS IN 335, AND WE'RE VERY SURE THAT ALL FIVE OF THESE THINGS WERE IN PLACE IN 335, AND AS I SAID, EUCHARISTIC PRAYER WITH THE PREFACE INTACT GO BACK TO THAT HIPPOLYTUS AND THE RESPECT OF THAT PREFACE, I MEAN, THE OFFERTORY, THE VERY FIRST PART OF THE EUCHARISTIC PRAYER, YES, WE CAN, EVEN IN THE LETTERS OF ST. IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH 104, MAYBE, AD, SO, RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SECOND CENTURY, IN THE TRANSITION THERE, WE HAVE THE LETTERS TALKING ABOUT THE OFFERTORY. AND THE OFFERTORY WAS BROUGHT UP IN JEWISH SACRIFICE. THERE WERE OFFERINGS THAT WERE MADE. BROUGHT UP TO THE ALTAR THAT WERE VERY, VERY TYPICAL. AND REMEMBER, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A SACRIFICE HERE. SO, THE OFFERINGS OF THE BREAD AND WINE WHICH ARE GOING TO BECOME THE BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST ARE THERE AS PART OF THE SACRIFICIAL OFFERING. AND IT WAS INTEGRATED RIGHT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF TIME THERE. AND YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S A SIMPLE OFFERTORY MENTIONED BY ST. IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH LIKE I SAY, AROUND 104 TO 110, RIGHT IN THERE. WE HAVE A SIMPLE ONE AND IT BECOMES EXTREMELY ELABORATE. AND JUSTIN MARTYR MENTIONS IT AS WELL. BUT IT BECOMES EXTREMELY ELABORATE BY THE TIME YOU GET TO THE LATE SECOND CENTURY. AND THEN, IN THE EASTERN CHURCHES, LATER ON, IT TAKES ON EVEN MORE DEVELOPMENT. AND THE WESTERN CHURCH SIMPLIFIED THE OFFERTORY AFTER A WHILE. BUT HAVING PEOPLE BRING UP THE BREAD AND WINE, IT WAS VERY NORMAL AND LONG PROCESSIONS, MORE THAN JUST THE GIFTS THAT WERE PRESENT IN THE EUCHARISTIC SACRIFICE, BREAD AND WINE. AND THERE WERE OTHER GIFTS BROUGHT UP FOR THE SAKE OF THE POOR, THE CHURCH, AND SO ON. AND TODAY, WE USE MONETARY OFFERINGS INSTEAD. AND INSTEAD, IT WAS A VERY ELABORATE PART EVEN BY THE END OF THE SECOND CENTURY. >> Doug: AND YOU TALKED ABOUT AFTER THE EARTH CENTURY, THE PRIEST BEGAN TO RECITE THE PREPARATION AND PRAYERS, SOTE VOCE. WHY DID THEY DO THAT? >> WELL, BASICALLY, IT WAS BECAUSE THE IDEA THAT THE PRIEST COULD GO INTO THE SACRED PLACE. AND THE IDEA OF THAT WAS, SOTE VOCE MEANS ALMOST, LIKE, A WHISPER UNDER YOUR BREATH. AND HE STARTED IT WITH THE PRAYER THAT WE ALL RECOGNIZE TODAY, TELLING THE CONGREGATION THAT HE WAS GOING INTO THE SACRED PLACE. PRAY BRETHREN THAT MY SACRIFICE MAY BE ACCEPTABLE TO GOD THE ALMIGHTY FATHER. AND WHEN HE MAKES THAT, ANNOUNCES THAT TO THEM THAT NOW HE'S GOING INTO THE SACRED PLACE AND NOW HE'S GOING TO BE DOING THE OFFERTORY. AND THE OFFERTORY WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE SACRED TIME THAT WAS RESERVED FOR THE PRIEST. SO, HE STARTS WITH THE OFFERTORY. THEN, YOU REMEMBER MAYBE IF YOU WERE A LITTLE KID AND YOU ARE AS OLD AS I AM, YOU CAN REMEMBER THE LATIN MASS WHERE THE PRIEST FOR A LONG TIME, SEEMINGLY GOING AT ALMOST WHISPER LIKE, SOTE VOCE THROUGH THE WHOLE PREFACE, THE BEGINNING PART BEFORE THE CONSECRATION. SO, IT WAS VERY, VERY SILENT. AND THEN, YOU COULD SORT OF HEAR WHEN HE GETS TO THE HOC CORPUS AND THE BELLS ALERT EVERYBODY TO THE FACT THAT THE CONSECRATION IS HAPPENING, AND ADORE THE HOST NOW BEING ELEVATE AND TRANSFORMED BY THE LORD INTO HIS BODY AND LATER, INTO HIS BLOOD. BUT THAT WAS SOUGHT TO BE A SACRED RITUAL FOR THE PRIEST. SO, HE ANNOUNCED IT. AND HE GOES INTO IT THROUGH THE OFFERTORY, THROUGH THE ENTIRE PREFACE, THE SANCTUS OF COURSE, WAS VERY MUCH, EVERYBODY WAS AWARE OF THAT. RIGHT. SO, THERE WAS A LITTLE BELL BEFORE THE SANCTUS AND THEN YOU HEAR THE SANCTUS, SANCTUS, SANCTUS. AND IT WAS VERY MUCH A REGULAR VOICE. AND THEN, RIGHT THROUGH THE CONSECRATION, SO, YOU KNOW, IT WAS JUST KIND OF USHERING PEOPLE INTO THAT SACREDNESS OF THE MOMENT. AND THAT'S CHANGED, BY THE WAY. YEAH, RIGHT, THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL. AND ALL OF THAT WAS BROUGHT OUT INTO A REGULAR AUDIBLE TONE SO THAT EVERYBODY COULD HEAR THE CONSTITUENTS OF THE EUCHARISTIC PRAYER. >> AND THE REASON IT WAS POINTED OUT, MAYBE THAT SEPARATION WAS MAYBE PHYSICAL BUT NOW IT WAS BEING SEEN AS THAT WAY. YEAH, RIGHT. INTERESTING. >> Father: EXACTLY RIGHT. THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. >> Doug: AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE WASHING OF THE HANDS AND WHERE THEY WERE PLACED AT THE END OF THE OFFERTORY. WHERE DID THE WASHING OF THE HANDS COME FROM? ACTUALLY THAT GOES BACK AS FAR AS WELL. IT WAS REALLY FOR A PURIFICATION RITUAL. FOR A TIME, THE WASHING OF THE HANDS ACTUALLY TOOK PLACE BEFORE THE OFFERTORY BECAUSE IT WAS THOUGHT TO BE A PURIFICATION RITUAL FOR THE PRIEST, IN A WAY THAT THE CONGREGATION WAS PARTICIPATING IN AS WELL. BUT IT'S REALLY PERSONALLY FOR THE PRIEST. LORD, WASH ME FROM ALL MY INIQUITY AND CLEANSE ME FROM MY SINS. SO, THAT WAS PLACED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE OFFERTORY. BUT LATER, IT WAS MOVED TO THE END OF THE OFFERTORY BECAUSE THE PURIFICATION RITUAL WAS REALLY TO OCCUR BEFORE THE ACTUAL CONSECRATION, EPIICALLY SIS AND CONSECRATION AND THEY MOVED IT TO THE END, AND BLESSED ARE YOU, LORD, GOD OF ALL CREATION, FOR YOUR GOODNESS WE HAVE THIS BREAD AND WINE TO OFFER, ET CETERA. RIGHT AFTER THAT'S OVER, THE LORD SAYS, LORD, WATCH AWAY MY INIQUITIES AND CLEANSE ME FROM MY SINS. AND THEN HE TURNS AND SAID, PRAY, BRETHREN. AND WE SEE THAT THE SACRED PLACE IS NOW GOING TO BE HONORED. THEY PLACED IT THERE AFTERWARDS. AND THERE WAS ANOTHER KIND OF FUNCTIONAL REASON AS WELL. BASICALLY, THERE WERE SO MANY GIFTS BROUGHT UP OF BREAD, WINE, AND SO FORTH AND SO ON. AND THE PRIEST'S HANDS WERE VERY SOILED. SO, THERE WAS A PRACTICAL REASON TOO OF WASHING OFF THE RESIDUE FROM RECEIVING ALL OF THESE GIFTS THAT THE CONGREGATION BROUGHT UP IN PROCESSION. IT WAS SOLIDIFIED AGAIN AROUND 335 AND THE WHOLE RITUAL WAS CANONIZED IN THE HIP LOTISE. >> AND YOU HAVE THE WORDS OF CONSECRATION, INTERCESSIONS OF THE CHURCH, AND THE CONCLUDING DOXOLOGY AND AMEN. AND THEN WE ROLL INTO THE PREFACE. WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY ABOUT THE PREFACE? >> Father: WELL, THE PREFACE, AGAIN, IS MEANT TO BE A THANKSGIVING PRAYER FOR EVERYTHING. AND REMEMBER, EUCHARIST MEANS THANKSGIVING. AND THE PREFACE IS ORDER, JUST AS I SAID, PREFACE FOR EUCHARISTIC PRAYER 2 WHICH IS WHAT PRAYERS USE COMMONLY BECAUSE IT'S A SHORT PRAYER, THAT PREFACE IS A DESIGNATED PREFACE WHICH CAN BE USED JUST ABOUT EVERYDAY FOR MASS. THE POINT IS THAT GOES BACK TO THE CANON OF HIPPOLYTUS. AND IT HAS EVERYTHING IN IT. AND RIGHT AFTER, WHEN WE SEE THAT, AND WE HAVE THE SANCTUS AND WE GO INTO THE PRAYER OF THANKSGIVING. AND THERE'S PRAYERS FOR CREATION, PRAYERS OF THANKSGIVING, PRAYERS FOR THE REDEMPTIVE ACT THAT JESUS DID AND SO FORTH. WE SEE ALL OF THOSE PRAYERS TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE EPIICALLY SIS WHICH MARKS THE JUNCTURE WHICH THE HOLY SPIRIT COMES UPON THE GIFTS TO MAKE IT HOLY. >> SO, WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOW, THE EPICLESIS, AND IT MAKES THE GIFTS OF BREAD AND WINE, WHOLLY PRIOR TO TO THE CONSERVATION CONSIDERATION, WHY DID THEY NEED TO BE WHOLLY PRIOR. >> WELL, IT WAS THE ACT OF THE PURIFICATION OF THE GIFTS. AS IT WAS, THE HOLY SPIRIT COULD SANCTIFY IT WHEN THE LORD ENTERS IN AND TRANSFORMS THE BREAD AND WINE INTO THE BODY AND BLOOD, THAT IT IS A COMPLETELY SANCTIFIED, PREVIOUSLY SANCTIFIED OFFERING. SOME PEOPLE HAVE CONFUSED THE EPICLESIS WITH THE CONSECRATION, AND THEY THINK THAT THE BREAD AND WINE ARE BEING TRANSFORMED INTO THE BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST WHEN THE PRIEST SAYS, COME DOWN UPON THEM, SO THEY MAY BECOME FOR US THE BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST. AND THEY THINK THERE'S A CONFUSION. BUT IN FACT, THERE'S A RITE OF SANCTIFICATION OF THE GIFTS SO THAT THE LORD, WHEN HE ENTERS INTO THE GIFTS AND TRANSFORMED THEM INTO HIS BODY AND BLOOD IS DOING IT THROUGH GIFTS SANCTIFIED AND PURIFIED. >> Doug: AND NOW WE'RE MOVING INTO THE FINAL, TALKING ABOUT THE CONSECRATION SIT SELF. AND THE PRIESTS RE-ENACT SOME OF THE WORDS OF CONSECRATION. AND IS THERE ONLY ONE SET OF CONSECRATION, OTHER WORDS. HOW DOES THAT WORK? >> WELL, IT'S A COMPLICATED PROCESS AND THIS BY THE WAY DOES GO BACK ALL THE WAY TO THE FIRST CENTURY. SO, I'M JUST GIVING YOU A QUICK SUMMARY. NOW, THERE'S TWO VERSIONS OF THE EUCHARISTIC WORDS. ONE IS IN THE MATTHEW-MARK VERSION, THE EARLIER VERSION ACCORDING TO MOST EXEGETES, AND THE LUKE AND PAUL VERSION WHICH USING YOU, WHICH, THIS IS MY BODY WHICH IS GIVEN UP FOR YOU, THAT WAS DONE FOR PUBLIC ACCLAMATION AND SO, WHEREAS, THE MARK-MATTHEW VERSION, THE CHURCH DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH VERSION TO ACCENTUATE. AND IN ITS WISDOM, WHAT DID IT DO, THE CHURCH BROUGHT BOTH VERSIONS TOGETHER. AND YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THIS, BOTH VERSION OF MATTHEW-MARK'S VERSION INTO ACCOUNT, AND TAKE THE ONE FROM LUKE-PAUL, AND THEN YOU JUST LOOK AT WHAT WE HAVE TODAY, IN THE WHOLE RITUAL OF CONSECRATION, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE CHURCH INGENIOUSLY PUT THEM ALL TOGETHER. THEY DIDN'T MAKE A CHOICE BETWEEN MATTHEW-MARK-LUKE-PAUL. THEY JUST WE'VE THEM TOGETHER EXACTLY AS YOU WOULD HAVE WOVEN THEM TOGETHER. THERE'S NO CHOICE OR CONTRADICTION TO BE AD. JUST EXTRA WORDS IN LUKE AND PAUL THAT ARE NOT THERE IN MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE, JOHN. AND THERE'S EXTRA WORDS IN THERE AND YOU CAN PUT IT ALL TOGETHER AND WHEN THE CHURCH DID EXACTLY THAT, THEY MADE SURE THEY GOT EVERY SINGLE INTENTION THAT COULD BE MADE IN BOTH TRADITIONS AND GOT IT EXACTLY AS IT SHOULD BE. AND THIS GOES BACK TO THE FIRST CENTURY SO WE CAN SEE IN THE DIDACHE, IN THE EARLY EUCHARISTIC PRAYER THERE, THERE'S ALREADY SIGNS THERE OF THE MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE, PAUL EUCHARISTIC WORDS. THAT'S HOW THE WORD GOT THERE. >> BUT THE LUKE ONE DOESN'T BUT THE MATTHEW-MARK DOES. >> RIGHT, THE MATTHEW-MARK VERSION WAS MORE ORIGINAL, CAME DIRECTLY FROM THE WORDS OF JESUS WHEREAS, YOU CAN SEE IN THE LUKE AND THE PAUL VERSION, ALREADY, THEY ARE USING, THIS HAS BEEN USED FOR EUCHARISTIC SACRIFICE. SO, THEY ARE BRINGING THE PEOPLE INTO THE SACRIFICE. AND THAT'S THE REASON FOR THE YOU. AND WHY THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS IS LEFT OUT, WE DON'T KNOW. BUT JESUS REFERS DIRECTLY TO THE ISAIAH 52:12 THROUGH 53:13 HYMN. SO, HE'S QUOTING ISAIAH, WHICH WILL BE GIVEN UP FOR YOU AND FOR THE MANY. AND THEN, HE GOES ON TO SAY, FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS WHICH PUTS IT RIGHT IN, I BELIEVE IT'S ISAIAH 53:12, ALMOST A DIRECT TRANSLATION OF HIGHSAY -- ISAIAH 53:12, MOST SCHOLARS BELIEVE THAT'S THE WORDS OF JESUS. AND WHEN LUKE-PAUL LEFT THAT OUT, IT'S HARD TO SAY WHY THEY DID. BUT APPARENTLY, MAYBE THE CUP OF THE COVENANT TOOK THE PLACE OF THAT WHICH IS NOT IN THE MATTHEW MARK. >> AND IT WAS 53:12 AS YOU SO RIGHTLY MENTIONED. WITH THAT BEING SAID, WE'RE OUT OF TIME. SO, GIVE US YOUR BLESSING. >> Father: OKAY. VERY GOOD. BOW YOUR HEAD AND PRAY FOR GOD'S BLESSING. MAY THE LORD IN THIS GOOD LENTEN SEASON CONTINUE TO SOLIDIFY YOUR HEART, IN FIRM PURPOSE, TOWARD THE SALVATION, TOWARD THE LIGHT, AND TOWARD THE GOODNESS, TO WHICH YOU ARE CALLED IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD. MAY YOUR FAITH IN THE WORDS OF JESUS, YOUR FAITH IN THE INTERPRETATION OF THE CHURCH COME FULLY ALIVE IN YOUR HEARTS THROUGH THIS SACRIFICE SO THAT YOU MIGHT TRULY BE LED INTO THE FULLNESS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> Doug: AND THANK YOU SO MUCH, FATHER SPITZER. WE SHALL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. ALSO, FOR ALL OF YOU, WE HOPE TO SEE YOU NEXT WEEK AS WELL. DON'T FORGET ALL OF KNOWS WONDERFUL -- ALL OF THOSE WONDERFUL BOOKS AND VIDEOS OF FATHER SPITZER, AT HIS WEB SITE, crediblecatholic.com AND THEN NEXT WEEK WE'RE GOING TO WRAP THINGS UP ON THE LITURGY OF THE EUCHARIST. BOOK MARK, WE HAVE ANOTHER FINE SHOW. BOOKMARK SUNDAY MORNING AT 9:30AM ET ON THE EDGE OF INFINITY: A BIOGRAPHY OF MICHAEL D. O'BRIEN GOING TO BE INTERESTING AND CHECK US OUT. NOW AS WE MOVE ONCE AGAIN NEXT TIME INTO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE," TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, WE'LL SEE YOU THERE. [MUSIC]
