"Face The Nation" Full Broadcast | August 6

I'm Major Garrett in Washington and this week on Face the Nation the third indictment of Donald Trump many believe this could be the most serious case yet listen to the words of special prosecutor Jack Smith the attack on our nation's capital on January 6 2021. was an unprecedented assault on a seat of American democracy it was fueled by lies Lies by the defendant targeted at obstructing a Bedrock function of the U.S government the nation's process of collecting counting and certifying the results of the presidential election I must emphasize that the indictment is only an allegation and that the defendant must be presumed innocent until proven guilty Beyond A Reasonable Doubt we will talk with three Trump Administration figures who could testify vice president Mike Pence and two officials who also told Trump there was no evidence of widespread fraud in the 2020 election attorney general Bill Barr and the head of the cyber security and infrastructure Security Agency now a CBS News expert and analyst Chris Krebs Trump Attorney John lauro will also be with us plus what do Americans think every time they file an indictment we go way up in the polls we need one more indictment to close out this election will Trump's Theory hold former congressman and GOP hopeful will Hurd will join us plus Minnesota Democrat Dean Phillips says his party should look for an alternative to President Biden we'll talk to him about that it's all just ahead on Face the Nation [Music] thank you good morning Welcome To Face the Nation Margaret is off today as we come on the air this morning disappointing news from Australia as the U.S women's soccer team has lost its knockout round match to Sweden and has therefore been eliminated in the World Cup here in the U.S the impact of former president Trump's third criminal indictment has not only underscored divisions in our country between the parties but it appears that Republicans are also divided as well with some Trump supporters still believing he did nothing wrong others not so sure and in that light we begin today with former vice president Mike Pence a man once seen as extremely loyal to Trump that is until they lost the 2020 election at which point Pence says Trump pressured him to try to overturn the election and in their favor we spoke with pence in New Hampshire yesterday president Trump was wrong he was wrong then he's wrong now I had no right to overturn the election and uh more and more Americans are coming up to me every day and recognizing that and and for my part I'm running for president in part because frankly president Trump asked me to put him over the Constitution that day but I chose the Constitution and uh I always will so I want to ask you about characterizations that have been made by those who speak on behalf of the president's legal team they've said this week that all they asked of you that is to say the president was to delay the proceedings to allow states to conduct an audit is that a truthful representation of what you were asked to do Mr Vice President major that's not what happened from sometime in the middle of December the president began to be told that I had some authority to reject or return votes back to the States I had no such Authority I stand by the facts as they occurred I mean it it ebbed and flowed between different legal theories but at the end of the day I know we did our duty I know we kept our oath but I I truly do believe that you know no one who ever puts himself over the Constitution should ever be president of the United States Mr Vice President if this case comes to trial would you be a witness against the president people can be confident will will obey the law we'll respond to the call of the law if it comes and and we'll just tell the truth look I've been telling this story over the last two years but I I must tell you over the last week it seems that more and more Americans have been coming up to me and just expressing a word of appreciation for what by God's grace that we did that day to be clear Mr Vice President you do not regard this indictment as the political persecution of the former president well I've been very concerned about politicization at the justice department for years I've been deeply troubled to see the double standard between uh you know the the way that the justice department has gone after the president responded even in with other Republicans and pro-life Americans in the way they seem to be to take no interest in getting to the bottom of allegations of corruption around President Biden's family so I I have deep concern about that but look I don't want to prejudge this indictment I don't know whether the government has the evidence Beyond A Reasonable Doubt to support this case the president's entitled to the presumption of innocence Mr Vice President tell me about these notes that the special prosecutor referred to in the indictment or those all the notes you took on all of your conversations with the former president at that time were you a note taker throughout your time as vice president did you hand them off to staff were these things you kept yourself tell me about the note the note process well I I can tell you major I have some limitations of what I can talk about relative to the grand jury but there was from time to time particularly at important moments I had a practice of scribbling a note or two on my calendar just to memorialize it and remember it and I did that in this case I generally didn't make a practice of taking notes in meetings over the four-year period of time but given the momentous events that were unfolding I I I did take a few notes to remind myself of what had been said and you know from very early on the very first time the president raised the issue with me that I that he was being told that I had the right to overturn the election to reject the return votes I I told him I knew I had no such Authority look I'm a student of American History I knew the founders of this country would never have given any one person the right to choose what Electoral College votes to accept and which ones to reject I was very consistent with the president about that and my recollections all reflect that but you know at the end of the day the president continued to to hold to that view but I knew what my duty was and as I said by God's grace we did our duty on that fateful day Mr Vice President what do you believe the president's State of Mind was about whether he won or lost the 2020 election you know I really can't say I I I don't know what was in his mind and uh it seemed to me through all that period of time the you know the president was intent as we all were and getting to the bottom of voting irregularities that had taken place there were roughly a half a dozen states that had changed the rules in the name of covet and frankly changed them in ways that could benefit Democrat candidates but in more than 60 lawsuits all of which I supported and in reviews at State levels there was never any evidence of widespread fraud that would have changed the outcome of the election in any of those states did you ever hear the president say I lost or did you ever take part in a meeting where it was clear from other words that he spoke that he knew he had lost and Was preparing to leave the White House I remember one occasion Before Christmas where the president asked me what what he thought we ought to do we were just the two of us in the Oval Office major and I I remember I looked at him and I said look let all the lawsuits play out let the Congress do their work to consider objections but I said at the end of the day if the election goes the other way I said we ought to take a bow we ought to travel around the country and I remember remember the president is standing in front of his desk listening very intently to me and I'll never forget the way he just kind of pointed at me as if to as if to say that's worth thinking about but I don't know what was in his mind at the time would you ever vote again for Donald Trump look I don't think I'll have to I have to tell you everywhere that wasn't the question Mr Vice President would you ever vote for Donald Trump again yeah yeah I know what your question is but let me be very clear I'm running for president because uh I don't think anyone who ever puts himself over the Constitution should ever be president or should ever be president again this country's in a lot of trouble and we've got to get back to basics we've got to get back to keeping faith with the Constitution we've got to get back to the policies that will make our economy strong that will secure our border that will support our military it'll defend our liberties and our values that are under a steady assault by the Biden Administration and we're going to work our hearts out to earn the right to be that standard Bearer one last thing do you believe the former president can receive a fair trial in the District of Columbia well I I would hope so but I don't want to prejudge the indictment or prejudge whether whether the government can make their case uh look the president's entitled to a presumption of innocence and uh I I have every confidence that uh that he'll make his case in court but at the end of the day at the end of the day I'm going to stay focused on where the American people are focused but I I'm also I'm never going to waver in making it clear to people that whatever the outcome of this indictment and whatever it's you know wherever it goes um I know I did my duty that day former vice president Mike Pence thank you for joining us thank you major we turn now to bill Barr who served as former presidents attorney general until he resigned following the 2020 election bill it's good to see you good to see you last time you were on the show you said quote the January 6 case will be a hard case to make because of First Amendment interest unquote having read the indictment is that still your view well it's certainly a challenging case but I don't I don't think it runs a foul in the First Amendment there's a lot of confusion about this out there maybe I can crystallize it this involved a situation where the states had already made the official and authoritative determination as to who won in those States and they sent the votes and certified them to Congress the allegation essentially by the government is that at that point the president conspired entered into a a plan a scheme that involved a lot of Deceit the object of which was to erase those votes to nullify those lawful votes disenfranchised people right and there were a number of things that were alleged one of them is that they tried to bully the state authorities to withdraw their certification by citing instances of Fraud and what the uh and and what the indictment says is the stuff that they were spouting they knew was wrong and false this is not a question of what his subjective idea was as to whether he won or lost they're saying what you were saying consistently the stuff you were spent you knew was wrong but it's not if that was all it was about I would be concerned on First Amendment front but they go beyond that and the other elements were the substitution of bogus panels that were not uh authorized panels to claim that they had alternative votes and then they cut and and that was clearly wrong and and the and the certifications they signed were false but then pressuring the vice president to use that as a pretext to adopt the Trump votes and reject the Biden votes or even to delay it it really doesn't matter whether it's to delay it or to adopt it or to send it to the House of Representatives you have to remember a conspiracy crime is completed at the time it's agreed to and the first steps are taken that's it that's when the crime is complete from a prosecutor's point of view is this the case you would have brought well from a prosecutor's standpoint I think it's a legitimate case but I'm an attorney general's point of view but I think there are other considerations and I would have taken those into account but I've also said consistently really the Rubicon was passed here when when attorney general Garland picked Smith because the kinds of decisions the kinds of judgments that would say don't bring the case or really have to be made by the attorney general and he he picked a prosecutor and I think at that point the decision was if there's a case we're going to bring it that's when the Rubicon was packed were you interviewed by the special counsel I'm not going to get into any discussion would you appear as a witness if called of course could you describe your interactions with the president on this question about whether or not he won or lost and what you told him well I wasn't discussing well I go through that in my book in painstaking detail but uh on three occasions at least and uh I I told him in no uncertain terms that there was no evidence of fraud that would have changed the outcome one of those associated with the Trump defense team has said if you were called as a witness they would cross-examine you and Pierce all of that by asking you questions that you couldn't to their mind incredibly answered about how thorough that investigation was that led you to tell the president what you told him how thorough was that investigation well I think it satisfied us that there was no basis uh for uh concluding that there had been fraud in those instances and some of them were obvious okay one that he keeps on repeating is you know that there were more that more uh people voted than absentee ballots that were requested and that was mixing apples and oranges and once that was explained to them uh we should we should have heard no more about that others required further investigation interviews and so forth and those were done I want to get your thoughts on Hunter Biden on December 21st your last day or nearly Your Last Day in 2020 in the role of Attorney General you said I think it's being handled responsibly and professionally currently with the Department this is the hunter Biden investigation and to this point I have seen no reason to appoint a special counsel do you believe a special counsel should be appointed now on the hunter Biden matter and do you regret not appointing one then no because the the no which to which which should one be opponent now no when I was the attorney in order to appoint a special counsel you have to have a conflict or should have a conflict of interest I had no conflict of interest investigating Hunter Biden if there was a conflict it would be Garland's and he had to make the decision when he took office as to whether or not it could be fairly handled in the department or whether or not a special counsel is necessary I felt that if I prejudge that and preempted his decision it would actually set things up that he would have probably or the administration would have just canceled the investigation and I felt he would keep our U.S attorney in place but once Garland came in he had the responsibility of determining whether a thorough investigation was being done and was being done fairly do you believe a thorough investigation has has been conducted well I did agree with the the House Republicans that there was a time where he should have appointed a special counsel is that time passed well practically it may have passed because there's not very much time to get to the bottom of things unless Weiss has been doing it conscientiously and we have to hear from Weiss as to what he's the U.S attorney in Delaware yes do you believe as you said earlier that there was a lot of shameful self-dealing and influence peddling in regards to Hunter Biden and if so do you believe those are criminally prosecutable actions okay well remember one thing I stress is those are two different questions right and uh you know things can be shameful without being illegal and I I yes I thought they I think it's grotesque the cashing in on the office like that apparently but uh I think it's legitimate it has to be investigated as to whether there was a crime there and that's one of the things I'm concerned about is that it was thoroughly investigated after I left your concerned still whether or not it was thoroughly investigated I don't know I I would like to hear about it I mean some of the whistleblowers raise concerns in my mind there's reasons before the election there were reasons to defer certain investigative steps under justice department policy but after the election I don't see reasons for deferring investigative steps and apparently someone said it was the Optics well what are the Optics you know after the election that it was the president-elect's son that's not a reason not to investigate William Barr we thank you for your time very very much Face the Nation we'll be back in just one moment please stay with us we go now to New York and CBS News elections and surveys director Anthony salvanto who has some new reaction to the former president's indictment Anthony what can you tell us good morning major in the polling this week we learned that Americans response to this week is about more than what they think of Donald Trump's actions but also what they think it means for democracy first half the country believes that after 2020 what the nation witnessed was a then sitting president trying to remain in office through what they feel were illegal and unconstitutional means now they say if true that would be undermining democracy and for them these indictments then mean it's upholding the rule of law and protecting that democracy but there's another three in 10 29 percent who feel that Donald Trump did try to stay in office but through legal means and what's telling here is that most of them like most Republicans continue to believe Donald Trump's disproven claims about a fraudulent election now there's another echo of Donald Trump's campaign rhetoric in here and that is this personal connection most Republicans especially most Mega Republicans also see these in the statements is an attack on people like them and they also see it as politically motivated that is their overriding concern more so than any of the content of the charges they think very specifically here that this is an attempt to stop Donald Trump's 2024 campaign major with the survey data and the perspective Anthony salvanto thank you and we'll be right back welcome back for the most part Republican candidates challenging the former president for the Republican Party nomination are treading carefully in their reaction to this latest indictment fearing that they've not they're going to alienate the president's sizable base of support that's not so with former Texas Congressman will Hurd who joins us this morning Congressman good to see you so you were in Des Moines and you said to Republicans there that the only reason that the former president is running is to quote stay out of prison it was believed that you were booed off that stage a couple of Republicans texted me in real time that they thought you looked weak looking back on that do you wish you had done that differently or said things differently or acted differently absolutely not what people are missing was that a number of people actually clapped when I said that and it was the end of the speech so I casually walked off and I stick behind him and this is one of the things that makes me unique in this race I've been ideologically consistent about Donald Trump since 2015. I've thought he's been a national security threat to the country and was incapable of growing our brand I'm the only one that has never bent a knee to Donald Trump and that's not going to change because we if we want to win elections we got to be talking about how do we have unprecedented peace at a time when the Chinese government is trying to surpass us as the global superpower how do we have Worldcraft education at a time when our kids are failing in math science and reading some of the worst scores in this Century these are the issues that we're talking about not talking about Donald Trump's baggage and if people agree with that I need them go on heard for america.com and give at least one dollar will heard when you see the president's polling your polling the vast distance between the two and the sentiment expressed by Republicans over and over and over again that they're with Trump and not with people like you who criticize him so harshly sure the election's 25 weeks away a lot can change and anybody who thinks that these are overwhelming odds I would tell them I disagree with them nobody thought a black Republican could win in a 72 percent Latino District on 820 miles of the board but it happened because I showed up to places that people didn't expect me to be a national polls running for president is not is not a national election it's 50 elections and this is going to always tighten and the goal is but you can't cite a single state poll where you're even in double digits well because the election's not today or it's not tomorrow the election is 25 weeks away in order to build a campaign and talk to the people that are sick inside of where the country is go is going it takes time two-thirds of Americans do not want Donald Trump or Joe Biden on on the ballot like that is clear and that has always been the case and we also know if Donald Trump is the nominee for the Republican Party we're giving four more years to Joe Biden so let me be clear major the the goal is not to Peak tomorrow the goal is to pick before the first but first let's talk about something that's not 25 weeks away but much sooner the first Republican debate will you qualify for that debate stage and if so how I haven't hit the I haven't hit the number yet but I feel 40 000 unique now I I feel confident that we're going to get to that place how close are you I'm I'm close I'm not gonna I'm not I don't think Ten Thousand Hills I'm close and that's why I need the people that are watching the show to go on her4america.com donate at least one dollar to make sure that they have some someone who's ideologically consistent meet the requirements to be on the debates why are you still a republican I'm still a republican because I believe in a a strong foreign policy I believe in Freedom I believe in actual personal responsibility that's not always reflected in many of the people that are in the party but here's where it is reflected is it reflective of what Donald Trump does no not at all but there's more people that I do Donald Trump is not a good Republican I don't think he's a good Republican at all um you know Donald Trump is is is Donald Trump and and and I believe in these these the Timeless principles of the party because I think that leads to Limitless potential and when you look at when I think about the party most people say is it the former president is it our elected officials and I believe it's the people that are willing to vote for Republican and here's what I've learned crisscrossing this country there are more people that are sick and tired of the direction the Democratic party is going and what they want is someone who's not a jerk who's not a racist who's not a misogynist who's not not someone who's a homophobe you know this is the opportunity the Republican party has and that's the brand the four words you just used do all of them apply to former president Trump at times absolutely and at times other places and other candidates that are in this race guess what slavery there's no upside to slavery we shouldn't have to be having that conversation this in in 2023. we'll heard Republican candidate for the presidency in 2024 thanks for being with us thank you and we'll be back in just one moment we will be right back with a lot more face donation up next Trump Attorney John lauro please stay with us [Music] we go now to John Laura one of former president Trump's lawyers he joins us now from New York John good morning to you I want to let you know that we spoke with former vice president Mike Pence and asked him specifically about your assertions made this last week that all the president did was asked him to pause the certification on January 6 2021 he told me flatly quote that's not what happened your response that's not that's not what I said though but that's okay what what is it that you believe happened between the president and the vice president and do you have any fear of the vice president being called as a witness in the case no No in fact the vice president will be our best witness what I said is the ultimate ask of Vice President Pence was to pause the count and allow the states to weigh in that was my statement and what what I've said is consistent with what vice president Pence is saying the reason why vice president Pence will be so important to the defense is is the following number one he agrees that John Eastman who gave legal advice to president Trump was an esteemed legal scholar number two he agrees that there were election irregularities fraud unlawful actions at the state level all of that will will eviscerate any allegation of criminal intent on the part of President Trump and finally what vice president Pence believes and believed is that these issues needed to be debated on January 6th he openly called for all of these issues to be debated and objected to uh in in the January 6 proceeding president Trump on the other hand believed following the advice of John Eastman who's a legal scholar that these issues needed to be debated at the state level not the federal level now of course there was a constitutional disagreement between vice president Pence and president Trump but the bottom line is never never in our country's history has those kinds of disagreements been prosecuted criminally it's it's unheard of John can I ask you a couple of very simple basic yes or no questions is there first is there any condition under which the former president United States your client would accept a plea deal on these January 6 charges no will you seek a motion to dismiss absolutely 100 percent win 100 percent well within the time permitted this is what's called a Swiss cheese indictment it has so many holes that we're going to be identifying and litigating a number of of emotions that we're going to file on First Amendment grounds on the fact that President Trump is immune as president from from being prosecuted in this way do you have a do you have a ballpark figure when you'd be ready for trial I well I can tell you that in 40 Years of practicing law on a case of this magnitude I've not known a single case to go to trial before two or three years understood are you still going to pursue a change of venue absolutely we we would like a diverse venue a diverse jury um do you have any expectation that will be granted that reflects the the the the characteristics of the American people um it's up to the judge I think West Virginia would be an excellent venue to try this case speaking of the judge did you see in a much more diverse understood speaking of the judge earlier this week your client the former president said on his social media platform the judge is unfair on what basis did he say that well the problem with bringing a case like this in the middle of a campaign season is statements are going to be made in the context of a campaign we expect a fair and just trial in the District of Columbia um and and my role my role is simply to ensure that President Trump's rights just like every American's rights are protected every step of the way and I'm going to do that you mentioned Discovery in the protective order back and forth between you and the prosecutors it says the prosecution that Discovery will be provided quote as soon as possible including certain Discovery to which the defendant is not entitled what's wrong with that we're we're all in favor of protecting sensitive and highly sensitive information but it's unprecedented to have all information hidden in a criminal case including by the way information that might be exculpatory and might be exonerative of President Trump the Biden admination wants to to keep that information from the American people John in the back and forth on this matter you it also said in the filing of the court that the former president would be willing to come to an agreement on this matter and what I want to ask you is would that requirement be something where the president would agree not to release any information that was highly sensitive in this matter and would he also refrained from any speech that called for or hinted at retribution about anyone associated with the prosecution of this case he's never called for that at all um he's going to abide by the conditions of his release but of course we would agree that any sensitive or highly sensitive information be kept under wraps in fact we made that proposition to the Biden Administration but they rejected it they want every single piece of evidence in this case hidden from the American public John before I let you go do you remember what you were doing the early morning of November 9th 2016. I have no idea well I remember what I was doing I was covering president-elect Trump announcing that he had won the presidency about 3 A.M that morning after the November 8th election my question to you John is how did he know he won well politicians um are convinced in the righteousness of their cause including president Trump and he certainly believed that but on what basis did he know but on what basis did you know when I finish can I finish sure can I finish and he believed in 2020 that he won based on the fact that he had 10 million more votes than in 2016 he had a situation where somehow President Biden or at that time candidate Biden received 15 million more votes than Hillary Clinton and he also understood in 2020 that president that president president Trump understood that he had won all virtually all of the Bellwether counties and 84 percent of all the counties in the country John's basis let me help you with this that he was successful John let me help you with this I wasn't asking about no let me help you with this because I wasn't asking about 2020 John I wasn't asking about 2020. 2016. right because because the votes were still being counted 2016. the votes were still being counted in 2016. there had been no recounts how did he know in 2016 that he had won how did he know on what basis the the issue the issue let me just tell you something the issue in this criminal case is not what happened in 2016 and whether all candidates say they won the issue now is in 2020 whether or not the justice department can weaponize criminal law to go after a political opponent and prevent that opponent from running for office that's the issue not what happened in 2016. John lauro we thank you very much fair do you think it's fair that do you think it's fair what the what the Biden Administration is doing to a candidate for president John Laurel we thank you for your time we appreciate it thank you and we will be right back welcome back we turned out a Minnesota Democratic Congressman Dean Phillips who might in fact be able to answer a question he's given some energy to are you going to run for president against Joe Biden well major I have not decided yet but I will tell you why I'm here and I lost my dad in Vietnam in 1969 uh lived with my great grandparents for two and a half years and my mom was 24 and widowed was adopted when I was three by an extraordinary Dad into a remarkable family I know a little something about living on both sides of advantage and I woke up the morning after the 2016 election the one you just spoke about saw fear In My Daughter's Eyes my two daughters I recognized at that moment that millions of Americans have had that same fear for generations and I promised them I would do something I ran for Congress and I ran a campaign that was about everybody being invited that was my slogan I listened to Democrats Republicans Independents and I discovered that everybody wants the same thing everybody we want to be safe we want to have security both economic and otherwise we want opportunity and we want Unity serving our country in Congress has been a joy I know you don't hear that too often it has been a joy and I've discovered that everybody in the middle the massive majority of Americans are sick of anger payment telling us we're more divided than we really are they're sick of members of Congress State houses attacking each other instead of attacking problems they want their families back their friendships back their communities back they want unity and I want to give voice to them and then secondly I want to give voice to Democrats I'm a lifelong passionate Democrat inspired by Hubert Humphrey and Martin Luther King Democrats are telling me that they want not a coronation but they want a competition the New York Times poll from this week shows 55 percent of democratic voters want some alternatives to the current people in the primary 83 percent of those under 30 Democrats under 30 want Alternatives and about 76 percent of Independence so I just want to make my case when are you going to decide I think well let me get to my point okay so if we don't heed I've given you some room yes you have if we don't heed that call shame on us and the consequences I believe are going to be disastrous so my call is to those who are well positioned and well prepared of good character and competency they know who they are to jump in because Democrats and the country need competition it makes everything better that's my call to them right now so if they don't you will I'm not saying I will I look I think I'm well positioned to be president of the United States you do I do not believe I'm well positioned to run for it right now people who are should jump in because we need to meet the moment the moment is now that is what the country is asking I gave you some running rooms so let's tighten up the answers if we can can President Biden beat Donald Trump I think he can but I think the only way to determine that objectively is to go through a process by the way before it's too late and I want to tell you this about President Biden an amazing man I love the man he is competent he is Honorable his Integrity I believe is unvarnished he has led this country through extraordinarily difficult times this is not about him this is about listening to people and I'm afraid in this bubble here in Washington people get real tone deaf real fast and we should be listening that's what this is about it's my call to action assess Robert F Kennedy Junior's campaign well first of all I I like competition I'm pleased that people it's an adequate competitor not the one that I'm looking for I don't believe him to be a Democrat is there something let me say this and what I carried around him I think there is something telling I think he's using a very similar Playbook to a former president who did the same in the Republican party just a little while ago and I think we should be cautious of that I also think that's why we need Alternatives I don't believe him to be a Democrat are you I do believe though that speech is good more speech is even better we need alternatives for the massive majority of the middle in America correctly you don't believe Robert F Kennedy Jr is a Democrat not not from the positions he's been taking no assess Cornell West do you have any anxiety about him running as a green party I do anybody who wants to turn the page and go to the future in this country should be worried about Cornell Cornell West's canancy any third party entrance that would take votes from whoever is going to take on the likely nominee from the GOP and that's probably Donald Trump so I would ask Mr West I would ask others who are contemplating third party runs to please think about your legacy think about the future and consolidate around entering a Democratic primary because that's why we have primaries Congressman if there's a conversation that you say needs to occur within the Democratic party about an alternative to the sitting president of the United States why isn't the leading Contender for that the sitting Vice President of the United States Kamala Harris I think we have a I think we live in an era of fear what if I get out of line what if I take on my party I know the feeling this is I think is she not qualified I think she's absolutely qualified in fact I think she's Mis portrayed I think everybody in this country should take a little bit of time and sit with people observe them know them before you draw conclusions I think she is more competent and able than many people give her credit for the job of the vice president is not an easy one would she in your mind be The Heir Apparent if for some reason the president United States were not to seek the nomination in 2024. I'm glad you asked the question and my answer is really simple competition as many people as humanly possible with the talent the time the energy the ethics to enter a primary should do it we have 12 Republicans as options for Republican primary voters right now we only have three in the Democratic side I believe in competition we're the Democratic party democracy means the freedom to make choices and we don't have many of them let me ask you a historical question you've invoked the names of many Minnesota Democrats let me invoke the name of another Eugene McCarthy ran in 1968 against a well-positioned president with a substantial record of accomplishment for Democratic party agenda items he said the reason he had to run was because of the overwhelming issue of Vietnam that it had to be addressed Dean Phillips what's the Vietnam of this election the Vietnam of this election I think everybody knows and it's about turning the page to the Future that is the Vietnam of right now that's the Quagmire in which we find ourselves Mr heard who you just had on the show if you could see the Green Room moments ago the camaraderie between Democrats and Republicans who all want the same thing was represented right there and I want to remind the American people that's the Vietnam of right now the Quagmire in which we find ourselves we will not get out of from a single leader if everybody takes a pause starts reaching out their hands to one another again starts electing and selecting people of Competency and good character we're going to get out of this and I'm optimistic Dean Phillips congressman from Minnesota Democrat keep in touch thank you major we'll be back in just a moment welcome back up now CBS News cyber security expert and analyst Chris Krebs who is head of sisa we'll get into what that means in a second announced soon after the 2020 election that it was the quote most secure election in history the former president disagreed and memorably to Chris fired him Chris it's good to see you good to see you major what was the basis of that statement well that it was the most secure election in American history so let's uh contextualize that statement a little bit it was issued on November 12th by a group known as the election sub-sector joint coordinating Council so this was leaders from the federal government state government and local government election involved in the administration of Elections alongside those from uh from the private sector and those that that support across the country yes so this was not my statement this was not Sis's statement not a red or blue statement correct this was a bipartisan joint statement by those that are actually involved in the day-to-day administration of Elections and it was their real time in the moment perspective of what was happening around the United States election at that point and and the important part is that it wasn't just about November 3rd and what immediately proceeded and what immediately followed it was a collective effort really spanning back from my perspective back to 2017 that joint effort that we had worked to develop strong Partnerships around election security within the federal government but also with state and local elections and as I understand it president Trump encouraged you to do that very work did you not that we had the full support of the White House the National Security Council and those that were immediately within the orbit of the president in fact I briefed uh the the vice president who was on earlier several times on our election security what is sisa sisa is the cyber security and infrastructure Security Agency it was established by President Trump in 2018 and it is as Jen easterly the the current director calls it the nation's civilian cyber Defense Agency and at any time when you were briefing either the vice president or the president or senior Administration officials about the work you were doing and what it was leading up to in the 2020 election did they raise any concerns about your ability your Acuity your trustworthiness or the trustworthiness of the data you were getting back to you we had full support from not just the White House and the executive branch but also from Congress we we briefed Congress I personally briefed will hurt several times briefed a range of senators and members of the House of Representatives throughout 2020 on our efforts to secure the 2020 election and received as I said full throated support and when you say security what does that mean does that mean no penetration and that's it or does it mean other things under the umbrella of security and secure election well our efforts starting in 2017 were to work with and establish relationships where we could share information and provide cyber security services to State and local election officials so that they could Harden their systems and increase the resilience of those systems in in the key takeaway as I see it for the 2020 election is that it was effectively the most audited and most papered election uh in in recent history why is that important well uh your your colleague David Becker your co-author uh runs the center for election in Innovation research and he conducted a study that says that in 2016 less than 80 percent of uh ballots cast had a paper record associated with it paper records are important because you can audit the results if there are any questions you can go back check your math and ensure the the accounting was accurate by the time the 2020 election uh rolled around due to combined efforts of federal uh and state local election officials that number increased to around 95 percent of votes cast including every one of those close call States importantly Pennsylvania and Georgia both switch systems that had paper ballots associated with the vote and you could count and recount in audit in fact Georgia recounted or audited several times post November 3rd and those systems that do that auditing were secure yeah absolutely you know based on our work with the intelligence Community our understanding and what's from State officials told you and the local officials absolutely look I I you know I continue to think that there are any number of state election officials that had every incentive in the world to prove that something happened to deliver an outcome to president Trump so that would never happen there are those on the Trump side of this Ledger who think you might just be a Beltway Insider Wise Guy who came to a conclusion and tried to sell it to the president and just because he didn't believe you he had a right to do other things how would you respond well he certainly has the right to claim that he won or uh you know it was stolen from him but as we heard when he takes that action towards the criminal conspiracy that's a different matter but again our role at ciso was in support of state and local election officials and ensuring that their voices were heard and that the work that they were doing got to the American people to instill and restore confidence in our public institutions were you interviewed by the special counsel I was would you appear as a witness of course of course do you regard this case as persecution of the former president politically or otherwise well it's certainly a prosecution but as for persecution his word is persecution yeah I look this is going to play out as it plays out and uh I you know to duly authorized investigation by the Attorney General uh you know it's it's in it's in the courts now what are your concerns I know you're on the outside now but I know you keep in close contact with those who are monitoring 2024 about these underlying security and functionality issues well uh I think any time that you put technology systems into a process or any to any sort of workflow there's absolutely the possibility that there are vulnerabilities or misconfigurations that can take place the key for election systems is you don't have single points of failure what's known as software Independence in this case where a failure of the hardware software doesn't result in an undermining of the entire process and in the FBI answers to continue to say that there's no known capability by an adversary that has been able to change or disrupt the casting the counting and the certification of a vote I continue to have concerns however that that we are not moving fast enough to to get rid of some of these Legacy systems and reducing vulnerabilities to stay ahead of what's an intelligent continually improving adversary very quickly Chris Krebs How concerned are you about threats to those who work at the local level on Election Administration absolutely that you know as we saw in 22 the the threats uh two election uh Administration officials is off the chart and it's resulting actually in these officials retiring and leaving the workforce so we're seeing a sort of voter suppression of Another Kind where there may not be enough opportunities to administer the election process which will cut down on opportunities for people to actually vote Chris Krebs thank you very much for coming in this morning thanks major we appreciate it we'll be right back that does it for today we thank you for watching Margaret will be back next week for Face the Nation I'm Major Garrett and by the way I'm not a fan of penalty kicks [Music]

Channel: Face the Nation

Views: 15,515

Keywords: Face the Nation, full episode, CBS News, video, Margaret Brennan, politics, U.S., world, Donald Trump, Mike Pence, William Barr, Chris Krebs

Id: 6asig2nLP_4

Length: 46min 1sec (2761 seconds)

Published: Mon Aug 07 2023