Explosive Debate: Roland vs. Cenk Uygur on Biden 2024 and the Progressive Blueprint for America

all right J let's jump into it um I've I've long maintained that when we talk about big tense that the Democratic party actually has a much larger tint than the Republicans Republicans you either right far right uh or fascist uh but then when you talk about Democrats you have conservative Democrats you've got moderate Democrats you've got Progressive you've got far left and Democrats have always had um a difficulty on bringing this coalition together because it's so varied interest yet you your your thesis is that progressives are going to take over the country how yeah so uh mainly by younger voters honestly and and it's and it's not that difficult uh the only thing we got to make sure that doesn't happen is that Trump doesn't win in 2024 because that could just end democracy but as long as we have democracy um in uh 2016 and 2020 Bernie Sanders was winning progress uh winning younger voters in massive margins and I explained that in the book by 40 points 50 points and so younger voters though kept getting older and older because that's normal that's what happens so uh he by 2020 he was winning under 45 year olds and now when you look at the polling under 50 year olds are now massively Progressive we just need one candidate to spark a fire and we're going to easily take over this country because Roland Progressive ideas are intensely popular almost all of our policies are favored by two-thirds of all Americans let alone the huge margins we have with young voters but but but isn't that part of the problem there this notion of a candidate striking the nerve I look at Texas I'm born and raised in Texas I'm still registered voter there we had Betto oor who was running for governor 75% of Voters under the age of 30 didn't even vote this this guy went to every County he was out there he was going to college campuses he was talking about the issues we're seeing what they're doing in Texas when it comes to abortion when it comes to voting rights when it comes to education whatever yeah young voters didn't show up so I I get your argument about uh the numbers with Gen X and Millennials but they got to show up yeah but r two things about that number one uh you don't have to worry about under 30y old voters anymore because like I said younger voters aren't that young anymore that generation has grown up and they have remained as Progressive as they started so now we're talking about Millennials and gen Z and so we're talking about two generations so under 50 under 50 the minute we reach about 55 which is the next election that's the majority of the voters in the Democratic primaries we win the Democratic primary and we win the general election easily second thing is 55 plus votes though I mean when I look at the African-Americans 65 and older they're like man you a need to call me I'm going 55 5564 they're voting the problem is when you drop drop 54 and below that numbers keeps going going going going down yeah and the reality is it's not always going to be a candidate that excites me shouldn't issues be exciting people so Roland it there's so many things to say about that number one you're right the issues are the things that matter the most but the problem is that our system depends on media coverage so I'll give you a perfect example Paid Family Leave is at 84% it's not like you have to convince any more people in a democracy that should pass easily that's moms getting 12 weeks off after they have a baby literally every other developed Nation does that we're the only ones that don't almost every nation on Earth does it Estonia gives moms 82 weeks off but Americans say we get zero days off it's unbelievable it's unconscionable right so we've already won on that issue as we won on almost every issue but the problem is the media will then take that and when Joe Mansion kills it and Joe Biden ignores it they'll say oh they're the moderates well that's not the moderate position that's the 16% radical extremist position so why do you need a candidate to Galvanize these folks well that's because uh the candidate is what draws the media attention and the problems with like Democrats and why I entered the presidential race is because everybody Whispers everybody Whispers stop Whispering Donald Trump screams from the rooftops and whether we hate it or not it works meanwhile Joe Biden go and then doesn't propose Paid Family Leave as a standalone bill doesn't propose any of these bills that are 70% and higher never fights Republicans we need someone who's a Firebreather who's gonna fight for Democratic voters and the American people the minute you have that and that person gets media attention is a minute we win everything easily but how okay so then explaining then how does a Betto a lose to TA Cruz by 2.5 points comes back same Betto same fire breather same passion same hard campaigner same big fundraiser loses to Greg Evan by 11 points yeah no no the so first of all better not a fire breather uh so look come on J I mean my my good I mean my goodness how much how much it's not like better was a mive dude compared other Democratic candidates yeah I know but R we're talking about a different level here so let me explain what I mean so when you say paid fan leave for example that sounds boring and then people like hey what is that you know uh and and if you go hey I'm in favor of it you're not going to get the 84% animated you might get them to go oh yeah that makes sense and I like that but then that's if they hear but most likely they will not hear here's how you say to get people's attention why do Republicans hate moms they claim to be pro-life but they hate babies and moms now everybody in the Press if you're if you're as large as B Ro was would cover that story they say that's an outrage how could you say they Republicans hate moms well they won't even give them 12 weeks off they won't give them a day off after they deliver baby it is true that they hate moms on behalf of Corporations who are all paying them through uh campaign donations but Democrats never say that they never even go to the number one issue that they could use against Republicans corrup coruption and the reason they don't go to that is because they also take corporate cash so if you have a clean Progressive candidate and this is the giant if though Roland which is that the Press pays attention to and is willing to hear out and then the country will hear these but you can't just whispered and Betto is not enough of a fire breather he hired the same campaign manager as Joe Biden when his campaign was over she went to Joe Biden these are super moderate Consultants that tell advise all of their Democratic uh candidates don't be impolite are you nuts Donald Trump already won the election he's almost certainly gonna win this next one and he's the most impolite guy in America wake up Democrats so the candidat you're describing who are they like for instance right now name me three candidates that have won Statewide that fit your description of being this Firebreather if if a Betto wasn't in the category who so there's only one that comes close and that is because several generations of Democrats have been taught and trained to be obedient to be civil do not cause any good trouble do not cause any trouble at all lay down and they let the Republicans run over you on a state level to give you the very specific question that you asked the answer is John fedman and he beat the hell out of Dr Oz when he couldn't even speak when he had a stroke and everybody saw he couldn't speak why did he beat the hell out of Oz because he was impolite light because he made fun of the brother 247 he crushed him he was merciless and and and if he hadn't had that stroke he'd probably be the next president here's a candidate at the presidential level me me okay so now is it I got an incredibly hard Road everybody knows that I'm not a natural born citizen a born Muslim I I got I'm a talk show host not a politician and so I got a thousand obstacles to get over but you know what I'm all over the press and I'm screaming from the rooftop things that everyone agrees with and whatever show I go on Rand it's not just left wing even when I go on rightwing shows where they're like yeah well higher wages would be good lower drug prices would be good wouldn't it be amazing if there was actually a fighter against corruption and and on behalf of all these issues you take my attitude you put it on someone that the Press considers quote unquote credible and that person wins easily easily go fight go fight Republicans fight like crazy that's why everybody's gonna show up for Donald Trump and nobody's gonna show up for Joe Biden because that guy doesn't fight for anybody okay so you say you use so you says one example Statewide is a Federman so you say one example Statewide is a fedman who right now is getting blasted for his position regarding Israel but you also talk about someone like yourself yet when you ran for congress you only got 5% of the vote came in so yeah if if you couldn't if you could not make that work in a congressional race getting 5% of the vote coming in Forth H how you how do you think that works nationally yeah so first of all uh so you're not wrong to bring that up I totally get it I got 6.6% and that number sucks okay and so you say okay what why come this didn't work okay so at a local and then how dare you on a presidential level let me explain both sides of it so number one at the local level it's harder than the presidential race and I know because I just did both I'm in the middle of doing one I did the other one uh and so why is Congress harder because mainstream media comes and smears a living hell out of you for me they called me anti-muslim when I'm Muslim I mean they just lied about every single thing about my past and if I saw the articles in the LA Times and New York Times and I never saw knew anything else about me I would have voted against me I wouldn't have voted for an anti-muslim racist sexist Etc guy but that's not at all who I am so they just smear you and then they never give the mic back Roland like there was no press no interviews no nothing I asked the LA Times are you guys ever going to write an article uh about the policy issues in this race and they literally said no we're only going to do the fake scandals against you they didn't say fake obviously and that's it that's it all we're g to do is smear you now at the presidential level it's actually a little bit easier to get the mic and so when you come in at 6.6% on a congressional race you're going to come in at 0% on the presidential level right I mean at the presidential level we got governor margus governor of North Dakota coming in at 0 and 1% we got Chris Christie at 2% so there's no chance that I'm going to get a number at the presidential level right wrong Quin Pak poll 2% I'm hired than three governors why because first of all Young Turks is a nationwide worldwide show so whatever I get in a congressional district I can get at the national level but second of all Roland it's because I'm actually now in a lot of the media I've been doing a lot of black radio I've been doing a lot of online shows I've been doing every kind of show there is did Breakfast Club Yesterday Here I Am with You Roland today and and once people hear this message they're like oh someone who's not just going to sit there someone who we don't have to beg to do things as soon as Joe Biden wins or any Democrat wins and what does everybody do we all have to beg them to to do the things that they promised we have to push them why we already elected you why don't you just do it already imagine having a Democrat who's going to get in there and he can't wait to pass bills because who wins is irrelevant who cares if it's Jake Huger or Joe Biden or Maryann Williamson that's just status and title the only thing that matters is passing bills because when you pass bills you change lives higher minimum wage lower drug prices but we haven't had a Democrat fight like that in 4050 years so the the only issue is getting enough media Roland okay but all right I I I I get that point but the reality is you can get a lot of media but it's not like that still means you get votes howardan got lots of media uh You Hell V on Republican side is getting lots of media uh granted voting hasn't started yet but if you look at polling it's not like uh he's killing it uh so and so uh but again it comes down to Media attention is one thing as you said Senator Sanders got lots of media I bring Betto again sen Elizabeth Warren got lots of media R 2020 I think her biggest mistake she should have actually run in 2016 uh I think that was the biggest mistake uh but the bottom line so so I get that but being a Firebreather does not necessarily mean people are going to vote for you and when you can only name one person Statewide in the country you need 27 you got I mean you gotta win state more states to win in the states that you got to win you got you're going to be in places that are not necessarily um you know fully Progressive I mean I mean that's just that's just a fact yeah so Roland let me address a lot of things you say first of all you're totally right that Elizabeth Warren should have run in 2016 uh and she would have won and so but that goes actually to the main point which is you say hey only one fire breather has won at the state level the guy I mentioned fed right but Rand how many fire breathers have there been almost none because all the Democrats are told to obey I mean we got Joe Biden who's definitely definitely going to lose this election he's sitting a 37% approval 59% disapproval and what do all the Democrats do they obey they say well okay I don't mind losing Donald Trump I don't mind losing democracy as long as we obey the dear leader and we never raise our voice and we never create trouble we never do anything that's impolite there's no fire breathers in the Democratic party this me and it used to be fedman and now he's been neutered in the Senate as well in terms of the guys that you mentioned these are good examples VC ramaswami he did get a lot of media attention but he's not Rising the post why because his ideas are super unpopular whereas our ideas are incredibly popular so when you look at for example lowering drug prices that's at 90% ending Jerry mandering 90% uh federal background checks 97% leave 84% you gotta have the fire breather plus media plus really popular policies and that is all progressives and in terms of Bernie the number one re reason he lost in 2016 and 2020 Roland is because he chose not to fight back he barely laid a glove on Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden we told him will you for God's sake attack and he wouldn't do it he's just too nice if you never make the case against the other guy you're not gonna win Jank for america.com but here's the deal though but but but you say Justice is coming how progressives are going to take over the country and America is going to love it there's got to be some proof of that and again it has to be more than one person okay okay so fine let's go outside of Statewide okay who are the folks who are on the local level that's going to go to the next level because again when you talking about a presidential race okay those are frankly state byst state campaigns they're not necessarily National races they're state by state you have to look at the politics in that particular State whether we're talking about Nevada Georgia North Carolina we're talking Minnesota we're talking Texas Florida we're talking you know these different places all right so so that's really that's really what uh they are but you also have got to have a bench and so I still I need where is it where's the bench and if if if if you're gonna say take over the country you got to take over more than one more than one seat and so where where where the multiple candidates and then the second then next piece is okay if it's coming where are they being trained where are they being raised up yeah so let me address that too so I remember when we started just Democrats uh people thought it was impossible and they said you're not going to win anywhere if you win you get lucky one place that's it right and and I asked every reporter I could find every one of them said you'll either get zero or one candidates in well what happened next uh you want to talk about fire breather well AOC beat Joe Crowley the fourth most powerful Democrat in the house in fact if she hadn't beat him he he had a Keem Jeff role he would probably be speaker of the house right now and that was a historic upset said when nobody thought it was possible why cuz she aggressively told the story of progressive priorities and people loved it uh who else did we run we ran Jamal Bowman he beat Elliot angle who's the head of the Foreign Relations Committee a committee chairman also thought impossible but it wasn't impossible you just had to try Rashida T ilhan Omar we now summer Lee Greg kasar we now have 11 Justice Democrats in Congress when everybody thought it was impossible no all you got to do is fire breather Plus popular policies that that's 11 but here's the question the folks that you name can they win Statewide races and if they can show me because you mentioned fedman but here's the deal when I looked at fedman it wasn't just oh he was sort of he was just speaking the truth he didn't care what he wore fedman also was appealing to those white conservative Democrats in other areas of Pennsylvania and then he was also appealing to folks in inner cities but again that's one show me where you translate the 11 you spoke of to H office that goes beyond a congressional district of 700,000 you've had Progressive Mayors who when they ran Statewide couldn't do it and so again that that's just what of what that's just what I'm looking at I'm looking at right now the attacks on Progressive District Attorneys I'm looking at the attacks on Progressive Mayors but I'm also saying and I get that local level but I'm but we we talking about presidential or US Senate or Governor we're not talking about Statewide offices yeah so uh here's two things about that number one um Whenever there is a fire breather what does the Press do they they just go set on a seek and destroy mission right oh not civil in fact when I ran for Congress the LA times did an oped and and and I had a great great meeting with their editorial board and you could tell because in the oped they said in their endorsement uh we while we agree with Jen on money and politics and almost all the other issues we think he's too uncivil he's he's too pugnacious but how many but but how many but how many young voters be the LA Town editorial editorial no no no no I know that's the problem is yes there's tons of older voters and older voters watch MSNBC older voters read the New York Times listen to NPR and they are told comply comply comply you must pick a super weak Democrat who's definitely not going to deliver for you a corporate guy who takes tons of campaign contributions and is super corrupt and they believe that nonsense they got to stop believing that nonsense turn off mainstream media and actually get a fighter who's gonna fight for you Jen for america.com here's the problem Jen you if you have more Jim Z Millennial voters today then you do baby boomers in Gen X it ain't happening I but it is by 2028 Roland we're we're gonna have the majority we're we're we're all you're almost giving up before we're about to get I'm not to get do not snatch de feet from the jaws of pictur I'm not giving up here's what I'm doing I'm looking at I'm doing the math I'm looking at again I'm looking at uh I'm looking at AO I'm looking at what happened in Louisiana I'm looking at places where yes you are seeing young voters show up they showed up in 2020 in 2022 what happened in Virginia some of the places but I'm talking about if you're where they are and the issue that I'm look the the concern that I have the big concern that I have is that a lot of young voters have completely and totally checked out they make the argument I'm tired of these older people running everything and I'm like guess what if the older voters are the ones voting you're not older people going to be running things it becomes it becomes sort of a catch22 and so what you're laying out when are the people who you're talking about when you say congress is going to take over the country when are they going to show up in mass and do it you can't 2028 when you got when you got super majorities of republic uh in States now in Louisiana in Texas Florida Mississippi Tennessee uh and different places like that you can't wait when you're talking about gorial races when you're talking about US Senate races and so I get this notion of a fire breather but there has to be results and not just talk and that's what I'm not seen But Roland first of all you just said it the evidence was in 2020 and 22 there's no way in the world Joe Biden wins unless the younger voters showed up in large numbers and they did but did those younger voters though if I keep hearing Joe ain't the guy he too old okay where in the hell were they in the primary then if in what primary Joe were other choices than Biden in the primary correct you mean in 2020 yes yeah I know that's why Bernie won the first three states then all all of mainstream media and all of the establishment Democrats said no Bernie's going to kill people in Central Park he's a communist Chris Matthews said that on MSNBC these lunatics that Chuck Todd started calling him his supporters brown shirts and Nazis even though Bernie's Jewish and they all piled on together and they barely beat him they barely beat him twice and and that and Bernie wouldn't fight back so you find someone like Bernie who's willing to fight back and by the and the demographics are on his side by 2028 we're going to kill him in the primaries hold on so you're saying again again again so you're saying that you say Bernie didn't fight back he would dis he would disagree uh disagree with that and and it it look what no he wouldn't I don't even think Bernie would disagree with that he knows that his staff gave him notes to attack Biden in a debate in October and he refused to do him he just he loves Biden too much oh my friend my friend my friend your friend is sunk the country and is handing it over to Donald Trump and R you tell me what the alternative is this Joe Biden guy is definitely definitely going to lose and we're going to have Trump as president because everyone obeyed the Mad King this ego Maniac Joe Biden 77% of the country doesn't even think he could survive a second term he's 81 years old can't finish a sentence and we're just gonna agree to lose by running this candidate I've never seen anyone so selfish in my life so give me anybody but Jo here's the deal but but again though the book is not about Joe Biden the book is about how progress is going to take over the country and what I and what I am trying to understand is how and where if I would what you're laying out again that's why I specifically asked how many people that fits your description to do this you mention one person J that ain't no I mentioned 12 ain't a movement that's one person just one and so what I'm saying is if what you're describing is the Pathway to Victory there would be more than one okay let me give you an example R from the other side and I and I hate to do this but it's but it's reality from hold on let me explain let me explain so Donald Trump back in 2015 when he announced did you know that he started out 1% yes I'm he a 1% and at that point if you were talking to him you would have say give me one example of a a a mad populist fire breather who can Galvanize the country against corruption Etc you he couldn't have given you any examples I I don't think I don't think it was just that I don't think it was just that I'm telling you right now I think first and foremost if you look at uh you look look at Trump first of all let's thank Jeff Zucker and NBC and The Apprentice so America America has this America has this nonsensical idea uh that rich rich people or supposed rich people uh can do anything if they're the smartest people in the world I think Elon Musk is proving that right now uh when it comes to Twitter uh that he is not a genius and so folks love to fall for that uh and what you had here was you had you had someone in Donald Trump who that where there are no guard rails there's no bottom uh there's no sense of decorum the moment Donald Trump attacked Senator John McCain as a p and the Republicans did not make him pay for it I was like uh there you go right there and I think what and so what Donald Trump did was he understood and he pushed the racist sexist misogynist buttons of the Republicans and in the primary folks and they were always there they simply were button up if you will because there was proper decorum and so when that was unleashed the bottom line is his the people who was running against they were playing by old rules the guy had no bottom and so that's Donald Trump now if you show me who else has replicated that model you can't one of the reasons why nobody on a democratic site ever does Roland no no it's not no but it's not just on the Democratic side it's even on the Republican side even on the Republican side that so they thought they thought oh with the second impeachment oh again McConnell I'm not going to vote for it because he's just going to go away and they realize he's not going to go away because he is appealing to the white nationalist instincts of Republican voters is why I wrote my book White fear how the Browning of America is making white folks lose their minds and so I get so I I I get that but again what I'm trying to I'm trying to understand is the type of candidate that you describing on the left that that can that that we're going to see in not just candidate but multiple candidates I'm saying I don't see the evidence that you have what you describe those individuals running they're not winning Statewide and National races because winning they don't even exist Roland they don't even exist my whole point if they don't exist hold on let me explain let me explain so Roland you know who can do it I can do it I can do it all I gotta do hold on hold on all I got do the Supreme Court case on being a national board citizen being a nonsense part of the Constitution that was amended on the minute I win that case I like this country on fire because look Donald Trump yes half his base loves the racism and sexism of course that's the only thing that Hillary Clinton said that was actually true the line about the deplorables but the other half of trump voters wanted to drain the swamp and they got Hood we they got con by a legendary con man right he doesn't he loves corruption he doesn't hate corruption but they thought he hates corruption he gave a middle figure to The Establishment and and that populist base that exists out there that is totally unaddressed loved it you gotta get a progressive that addresses that populist base and says hey let's actually fight corruption let's actually do things that are popular like higher wages and lower drug prices and that person number one the minute I win the court case that person is me I'll do it in this race for the next race but but you sound like a guy who says I can be an NBA Allstar player but you can't even start in the G League H how do you go from getting 6% in a congressional race to actually saying oh I can win the presidency how yeah Roland The Young Turks has five billion views a year I've been told every step of the way that I'm not I'm not the guy I'm an outsider I'm a immigrant I'm a Muslim I'm this I'm that it's not you Jen it's not you How do you how dare you try to come up with a media Network well now we have 27 million subscribers five billion views a year what happened if I told people when I started Young Turks D Ra's not gonna hire me I'm gonna hire Dan thought nuts but J I get J I get the media piece I started my own now have the OWN network we built it from 157,000 YouTube Subs to 1.16 and we're still growing I get all of that I'm talking politics and what I'm saying is what I'm saying is it's a stretch it's a long stretch some would say it's one where you need to be committed to actually say if I got 6% in the Congressional race not I got 38% or 45% and I came in second I got 6% came in fourth I can win the presidency but again I'm but I'm going Beyond you hold one second I'm going Beyond you what I'm talking about is a broader move and I understand those Justice Democrats but I also look at how right now there are people who are critical of those same Justice Democrats who are saying Al oh she sold out she got there and she changed on and on and what I'm saying is the the model that you described if you can't replicate that in more than one race it doesn't work I'm just simply saying roll me show me the pathway I'm J I'm taking you a president out what I'm saying is show me the pathway okay but R let me give you another example so I gave the example of Donald Trump starting at 1% and then winning the presidency that wasn't good enough I gave you the example of 11 just Democrats all told impossible they all went not good enough fedman does he's the only one that tries spectacularly not good enough hold on one more let me give you one more example okay uh the a young kid named Barack Obama runs against Congressman uh Rush Bobby Rush yeah and he gets humiliated he gets defeated thoroughly and if at that point you were interviewing him Roland and you had this mindset admit that you would tell Barack Obama how dare you how dare you you have no way of being able to do this you have no pathway you have no uh data to back you up all you've done is lose an election but he did it didn't he Rand no no no no no hold up hold up how did he do it look how he well first of all he tried number one thing is get caught trying Jen for america.com okay no no no J that's not what happened he didn't just try after he lost to Bob after he lost to uh Congress Bobby Rush then when he made the decision to run for United States Senate he made a calculated decision and that is he took a meeting with Senate Illinois Senate President Emil Jones and in Illinois the there were three major Democratic figures in Illinois politics there was Daly the mayor of Chicago that was Rob lovic the governor of Illinois and that was Mike Madigan who was Speaker of the House Emil Jones was a totally ignored he was deemed to be irrelevant so what did Obama do Obama played on his ego he went to Emil Jones and he said how would you like to make a United States Senator that's what we did state senator Barack Obama was not a major player in the Illinois Senate he wasn't he went to Emil Jones and Emil Jones said hm interesting idea it was Emil Jones the Senate president who was the one who said all right you I'm stripping all of your names off of these bills and his name is going uh on uh those bills one of those bills that with racial profiling the state senator who had been uh who had been uh Champion that for a long time Ricky his name Escape last name escap right now went off he was pissed and Emil Jones literally was like shut the up I'm gonna make a United States Senator and that's what happened so when Obama ran Obama was able to talk about all of these bills that he passed he didn't actually pass the bills it was they Senator email Jones and then when and then when he ran again very smart campaign but he also greatly benefited from complete implosion on the Republican side I'm not saying that that they would have been they would have won what I'm saying is that was the pathway so and then and and now what I'm also saying is the person who you describing this this this hardcore uh what you're describing Progressive that wasn't Obama Obama Obama's Persona Obama's Persona and how he ran it appealed to progressives it appealed to moderates it appealed to centrists it appealed to Republicans as well yeah and and then wait a minute then he goes to United States uh Senate same thing and so the the type of person you're describing that ain't Obama and in fact in fact progressives were highly critical of Obama because they said he was too moderate yeah no Roland about that you're totally right I I I use Obama not as the progressive model he he went in a completely different track he went in the establishment track and he said okay I'm going to do whatever these politicians say and whatever the donors say and and that worked for him but the reason I use him is but that was a different time and the reason I use him as an example is after he got you know after he lost very very badly to Bobby Rush at the Congressional level everybody thought he was nuts for running at the Senate level how dare you run for the Senate when you got clowned running for congress and then he was only two years as a senator when he decided to take on the giant Hillary Clinton and everybody thought he was crazy that he had no data to back him up no pathway no other person that had done it right now that but that was a different time where going The Establishment route would have worked now going The Establishment route basically for voters under 50 means you're a sellout and and and you're just doing whatever the donors say and it's not going to work in the same way but if you have an Obama likee figure who's a progressive at this moment and is willing to take those chances and by the way take the ridicule and take the all the mud and all the things that people sling at them at this point they could make the exact same kind of run but on the Progressive track rather than the establishment track but I'm not just talking about presidential what you're what you're describing so this is very simple is this book Justice is coming how progressives are going to take over the country and America going to love it is this really about J running for president or is this a blueprint or is this a blueprint or is this uh if you will a call to Arms uh for what uh is going to happen in terms of progressives that you are describing winning nationally winning gooral races winning uh State races winning US Senate races winning additional Congressional races and what I am saying is I get the Justice Democrats I get those what I'm saying is you got to graduate from congressional from mayoral from mayoral wins Congressional wins da wins to H office and so and and so with who who are the people so let's say you fine you mentioned fedman okay who are the folks that we should be looking out for give me names of individuals who do you believe are going to be going to the next level to win these larger offices using the model that you laid out who are they yeah so first of all let me address the thing that you said earlier Roland uh no this book has nothing to do with this campaign I started writing this book four years ago it took way too long it got released months ago I never looked we this interview got booked a long time ago about the book and you know we had delays Etc now I don't I never even mentioned the URL where you could buy the book I I never even talk about it now that I've transitioned to the presidential campaign uh and I never even thought for a second that I would run the only reason I'm running Roland is because no one else had the courage to run which goes partly to your point look I asked every Progressive to run they wouldn't do it then I publicly asked for the Democratic Governors to run against Joe Biden then I asked John Stewart to run against Joe Biden I ask everybody in their mother to run against Joe Biden because he's definitely gonna lose he's 15 points lower than when he barely beat Trump last time in the Electoral College but no one has that kind of Courage apparently so then was it's crazy for me to run you think I don't know it's crazy of course I know okay the reason I'm doing it is because I got to shake people out of their complacency and I have to show them hey look if I can rise from 2% to 4% to 8% to whatever I can rise to imagine what you could do if if you don't have the issues that I have of not being a natural born citizen Etc right imagine what anybody could do if they actually ran this way so in a sense I'm trying to be a role model and try to gather up the courage of these folks hey try stop listening to democratic Consultants all they ever do is tell you to take the cash because they're gonna take 15% of it all they ever do is tell you to behave and oby and comply just fight give me one fighter and I'll show you exactly what Barack Obama did and unfortunately what Donald Trump did okay and I'm gonna ask I'm gonna first of all I I I've been highly critical of the Consultants absolutely when it comes to them snatching the money things along those lines but I'm going to ask again okay the folks that you're describing who are they who are the up andc comers if you're sitting if somebody's watching and listening to this and somebody who covers politics who are the people who are the names we should be looking out for who are ready to go next level and fit the category or the description that you've laid out who are they when where are they look I I think that the 11 Justice Democrats uh had a real shot at it but you mentioned something earlier that we didn't get to explore too much and I want to mention it here um those folks are creating a a an issue for themselves uh which is that they're they're not understanding the problem of crime and so when I say progressive I mean all the issues that we all agree on as Democrats all the ones that Joe Biden pretended he was going to do right but nobody's in favor of higher crime and so right now unfortunately they've and they and the culture wars are killing us and they're meant to divide us they're meant to distract us if you had a progressor that was an economic populist but was reasonable modern whatever word you want to use on crime and social issues that person would win easily but unfortunately a lot of the just Democrats have not gone in that direction they've gone full cultural Wars uh and and when when we talked about Criminal Justice Reform we talked about letting poor people out of jail who just got busted on marijuana possession that was an incredible Injustice and you know this better than anybody white people black people smoke marijuana at the same rate black people get arrested at four times the rate that's the Injustice we were trying to fix but now that you know you got folks that they're letting out of prison that committed serious crimes like domestic assault and Etc and we can't we can't do that and it's and it's leading to losses so if any one of those guys regain their senses on those issues then they would be in Prime position and and any Jamal Bowman could do ity all right but but you bring that up though but again when you talk about polling data though we see where uh where a lot of these younger voters are that actually agree with them that's one two you mentioned you before you talked about media and how it works a significant amount of that has been grossly overblown I look that that was was a reelection effort of uh of the da in San Francisco uh and all everything was like oh my God how Crown was exploding under the watch but it wasn't right now you got an effort to recall a black Progressive da in Oakland saying oh her policies are creating this when actually they haven't and so a lot of this is again uh look you had spanberger who was complaining about this in Virginia OH defund police is killing us no actually that wasn't it because there were other Democrats who won you also just had some Democrats who lost they were shitty campaigners that also happened so I I I I I get your point about the crime deal but I still I still want to know who are five six seven eight 10 people we should be looking out for who again who fit your description who you believe can win Statewide and then who can then went National who right now outside of fedman you know fits that model who so but Roland you keep going back to the same thing brother I mean you no no no no I'm not here's why I'm saying that I'm as an African-American and I've been I've been doing this since I was 14 years old when I was sitting here looking at individuals covering politics and looking at individuals who are upand com who State Rep who state senators people who might be a commissioner uh hey who put potential mayoral candidates who are potential uh folks who can run Statewide because the reality is they've got to build something to actually get there okay even if you taking Obama and Obama was frankly that was lightning in a I'm tell you right now that was lightning in a bottle okay to literally go from a state senator to president in the span of five years I mean that was lightning in a bottle uh and so that that that rarely happens but that's just but that's not true Rand it happens all the time that's just president I'm talking about I'm talking about if you're talking about the movement that you're describing there has to be there has to be more than one person and what I'm saying is are we seeing this are we seeing this movement towards what you're describing and if it is happening then you could offer me more names who's actually doing it I okay no no you're thinking about it the wrong way R let me let me let me address it in two ways number one the problem with going from the bottom up and everybody thinks you got to go bottom up you got to go bottom up the problem is that that process corrupts you so in order to win those elections one by one what do you have to do you have to go go and beg the donors you have to go beg corporations you have to go beg rich people please please please let me be mayor rich person please please let me be a congressman please let me be Senator rich person please please please by the time you're done with that you're so dripping in corruption that you're never going to be the lightning in a bot no what you actually need is the Obama model and I I keep I hate to say it but the Trump model and they both they were both lightning in a bottle and they both came up from Top they didn't you know you mention yeah I hear you came out completely the top and Obama everybody in the proceedings both lightning a bottle so I'm giving you precence people that came out on nowhere you just won't you won't hear it can't you can't use Trump for Democrats because it doesn't work it doesn't work no one's ever tried it Rand do work everyone who's tried it as one you actually you act let me tell me you actually think that Democrats and progressives are going to respond to a trump likee Democrat the same Republicans did but but not that the racism and the sexism and the crap like that of course not I'm not talking about that I'm talking about the populist end where they where he says screw the politicians Screw The Establishment screw the system screw the donors now he doesn't mean it he doesn't mean it that's why he country if you had a progressive who believed that and said that yes they would win in a landslide and then the one that came closest to it of doing that you said well he didn't go hard enough and that was Bernie yeah if you give me if if if Bernie was a fighter he' won easily in 2020 he to won easily in 2016 he would have been able to pull it out do you know that about a quarter of trump supporters would have voted for Bernie why because they're looking for a populist and the Democrats won't give them one give them a populist and they're going to vote for you but instead we keep putting up corpses like Joe Biden oh here's a guy who's drenched in corruption asor from MBNA a credit card company for this fossil who's obviously here's why I absolutely disagree with you and it is because the problem is it is what you're describing that Trump candidate it's easier to run on the right because the buttons they can push Democrat Progressive voters are simply more Broad and have more varied interest they just do they just do I mean afrian why do the Democrats stay home why do the younger voters stay home because we never give them a reason to show up all of our guys all of our lives and Roland you know this for a fact every Democrat promises the moon in the sky then they get in and go oh there's nothing I could do I didn't pass any of the damn bills myom myg homk they suck they never deliver shows up to vote for them give them somebody to vote for here's where you were wrong earlier when you say well I voted for you and this and that's wrong I have long said that the election is the end of one process the beginning of another one of the mistakes that Democrats make and one of the mistakes that progressives make is that they do not have a postelection strategy when you have individuals who do who who who do get in there and when they when when you go through the whole compromise game what you fail to have is you fail to have uh uh the mechanisms the machines the groups that then are applying that level of pressure and challenging them when they're in there I have said this about black people and I've said long said that just like what a Philip Randol when he talked to FDR FDR said make me do it you have to make somebody do it when MLK said we're gonna put that be true to what you put on paper the problem the problem is is after the election folks are not then saying all right elections over now I'm about to ride your ass to actually get it done now what's so that that's one thing that has to happen but the other thing that also has to happen and it's just is just a fact and that is democratic voters are so varied in their interest that is much easier on the Republican side to frankly put stuff on a bumper sticker when Democrats are totally different and I just don't believe that what you're describing is going to work on a broader scale because you're having to appeal to so many different interest in order to get to that number so let's start you you brought up a perfect example R MLK so now Martin Luther King wasn't in wasn't didn't run for office right but he was involved in politics and he put tremendous pressure on Lyndon Johnson and when the Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act were not good enough he would not relent no matter how much Lyon Johnson and every Democrat in the world told him you got to relent Martin you got to relent you're you're too tough on him he wouldn't he pushed him as hard as he could and then at the right time he took the deal you've got to have both sides you've got to have don't know but there were times though when he also had to buckle to the pressure of the reality so for instance when they went to Atlantic City in 1964 when fan L HR and Mississippi Freedom Democratic party they were putting pressure on them to integrate uh uh that uh that party uh LBJ was focused on reelection he called Ruther who then said you pull you tell King either you accept this deal or we're pulling your money that's exactly what happened when King went and told f l Hamer and Bob Moses and others they were pissed at him and barard Rustin but they had to say hey take this deal now but we're gonna have integrated delegation in 1968 so there were moments when King was also practical he that's exactly what I said though right no saying so that actually happened but but but what I'm also saying what I'm also saying though is that even he had to had to accept uh some constraints if you will actual politics and what I'm saying is I think the problem for the Democratic party today is and actually it's not a problem that's what's so crazy about this the the the beauty to me of the democratic party that it is much broader it's much bigger it it is far more inclusive than Republican party but the Republican party is able to have Trump like candidate because frankly you can press two or three buttons and they will fall in line and here's something else the Republicans will do that Democrats will not do they will fall in line you got sonunu the governor of New Hampshire who's been on Trump left and right guess we said the other day he said I'm a Republican bill B was on Trump in a whole interview about how awful and dumb he was but when asked if he gets a nomination when you vote for him he says I'll vote for him they Republicans understand power Democrats Democrats will actually check out mad upset their person didn't win Republicans be like damn that we want power so Roland as I told you Martin Luther King and Russon who was a genius they worked together uh to put tremendous pressure on Lyndon Johnson and then they took the deal at the right time they were both they created a lot of good trouble that's the part the Democrats are missing now and then they were practical at the right time that's the exact combo that we need okay but the problem now is the Democrats don't create any trouble and they don't push anyone and the minute Biden gets elected you know people say oh well you should just push Biden and I push Biden and they go how dare [Music] you in my life pushing Biden for pushing Obama you know how much crap I've gotten no the Democratic part is now totally authoritarian they're more authoritarian than the Republicans they all are forced to obey and comply it's disgusting they never challenge their leaders are you talking about they they all rally on the Trump side no they bought Trump to The Nail where no one's fighting Biden even though you all know he's gonna lose noing to fight bid what I'm saying is what I'm saying is again this is where I go back to frankly the thesis of your book when I talk about movements when I talk about groups in order to do what you're talking about it's not actually going to happen with individuals it happens when movements and so what I'm saying is this here what I'm saying like for instance what you're describing you know what our I thought our Revolution would actually do that uh and and so what I'm saying is this here I still fundamentally believe fundamentally believe that in order for what you're describing to happen you're going to have to see Folk not just only run for president you got to see it on a Statewide level and I'm not seeing enough of it I hope it happens but I haven't seen it outside outside John fedman outside of John fedman you've only given me one name sooland all 50 states if you saw if you saw Rustin and MLK in 58 you'd have told him there's no movement you guys have been losing for a hundred years straight movement years they were losing years said how dare you no no no actually because again here's what I here's what I understand in you earlier you talk about how that's even the opposite of politics what ha what happened with the movement is that if you try to go National that's not what made it successful what made it successful is that they went local and built it to National and they achiev wins which is why I remember what you just describe I as actually asked you that I said if you have again to fit your definition in terms of progressives who can win I've said do you have folks who are Mayors who are Das in local offices are they running Statewide you mentioned Justice Democrats so the Civil the black Freedom Movement was able to be successful because Montgomery success it moved to Albany wasn't a success because of the sheriff there then all of a sudden they understood how to build successes how to build local how to build leaders and what I'm saying is looking at your model I need to see is that being built it can't just be built from top but Roland how much more can I do than building Justice Democrats I founded that so I no no no no no I got that what I'm saying is hold on congressional seats is that I'm asking you again is that translated into higher office so Roland you're looking at no you're looking at the first third of a movie and going oh no you can't win because I I've only seen the so now when I started 21 years ago everybody there was no progressives in media other than black radio Okay and then so and then we built up an Empire that was impossible then I started so all of a sudden it turns out progressives can win in media and then we I started Justice Democrats and all of a sudden everybody thought it was impossible and we got 11 in so that's Grassroots that's building from the top uh from the bottom up so we've done every step of the process now I'm doing the presidential hold on now I'm doing the presidential race so I've done media I've done Grassroots I've done Congress now we're doing presidential what else do you want me to do do you want me to write the editing of the movie and then give it to you and then you go after I win you go oh okay I see it now so you would stop every movie right in the middle and go no not impossible impossible don't do it don't do it get out of here just take corporate campaign money for losers like Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton who lose to Donald Trump let him take all the stupid money serve the corporate donors Jen it's not it what I'm saying is this here the model that you have the def the model that you have described in order for it to happen nationally you're going to have to win Statewide races and what I'm saying is and I've asked you three or four times and you haven't given me any name what I'm Jake I question ask the same exact how dare you how dare organize the Civil Rights Movement you can't show me any wins you can't show me any wi J and what I'm saying is the next Evolution the next Evolution has to be how do you translate Justice Democrats wins in Congressional races to now Statewide and National that to me is the next challenge I didn't say it can't happen what I I said is in order for what you're describing in order the thesis of your book when you say how progresses are going to take over the country and America is going to love it is that it is going to have to take folks going to the next level and when I at the only person who you mentioned Federman is the only example who's won Statewide and what I'm saying is in order for this to happen there are going to have to be more Statewide wins to make this happen yeah and that's exactly what I'm trying to do Roland and and and why have we interviewed hundreds of progressives on tyt my network that you know it gets no clicks at all it's like we try so hard to get those folks pressed it's not a thing because of the AL look I do the same thing and look I know what I know what people click on I purposely don't do gossip I don't do Zeus Network fights I don't do stuff that you see on Hollywood unlocked in the shade room and some these other different people because my whole deal is you want to go there for that kind of stuff that's great but somebody has to build this here but I but but I AB I'm absolutely into I understand and I've spent significant time studying the black Freedom Movement talking to the architects of it or how it was done and what I'm saying is what you're describing the next the next phase definitely is going to be Statewide and when I look at what happened to Betto in Texas and I look at young voters what I keep telling young voters is hey I get it you want to be excited you want to be fired up but here's the whole deal while you're waiting for that person is being passed it ain't helping you so you know what you better get in the game regardless of whether you get excited or not because guess what somebody's gonna win whether you vote or not final comment yeah yeah and the reason I brought up the interviews with progressives even though they don't do well for us uh you know from a business perspective is because I'm giving people an opportunity left and right every chance I get I give others an opportunity so they can rise up in the same exact ways that you're talking about whether it's Jamal Bowman and Cory Bush and AOC who won whether it's Nina Turner who lost whether it's the next Bowman or Turner that comes by we give them an opportunity at tyt and The Young Turks because we believe what you're saying Roland which is we need an army we need a Grassroots Army we need to win in Congress we need to win at the state level and at the state level only one person has ever tried it it's John fedman so we're one for one so give me more of those candidates let's go run those candidates and give it to me at every level including the presidential level and that's why I'm here at jfor america.com my site's also B is gon to lose.com that redirects my site because he's gonna lose and we all know it we're all on the Titanic either grab a Lifeboat or turn the wheel turn the wheel get somebody other than Joe Biden because he is definitely going to lose to Donald Trump and I don't want to voluntarily run into an iceberg I don't want to hand this country over to Trump and that's what Biden's planning to do with his egomaniacal run oh I need to be a two-term president my ego is more important than anything else he's a narcissist get rid of here's the whole deal okay anybody anybody didn't think Biden wasn't gonna run for a second ter when he ran the first ter they're nuts real is here when he want look I wasn't delusional I I said if you tripping about Biden being uh his age now with hell he was old when he ran the first time he was always going to run for a second term the last president who chose not to run for a second term was LBJ that was gonna happen so I'm not I'm not confused I'm not shocked confused that he's running for a second term at all that was always gonna happen I know that's why hell Reagan ran for second term it was gonna happen so it's not like anybody is shocked that he ran for a second ter folks the book is called Justice is coming how progressives are going to take over the country and America is going to love it uh by Jank Yuga Jank we appreciate it thanks so much thank you R I appreciate the conversation all right enjoy thank you brother

Channel: Roland S. Martin

Views: 182,171

Keywords: Roland Martin, #RolandMartinUnfiltered, Black Star Network

Id: 9TUyMtEIms4

Length: 62min 7sec (3727 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 13 2023