Ex-Jehovah's Witness Tells All | Interview with Kai Natalya

the first group of jehovah's witnesses formed in 1870 in pittsburgh pennsylvania some traditional christian views are taught by jehovah's witnesses but many are not they believe that only jehovah's witnesses will be saved when their god-son jesus returns leading a heavenly army to defeat their enemies after such an event they believe jesus will rule the world from heaven with only 144 000 of the faithful jehovah's witnesses as the 144 000 is talked about in the biblical book of revelation actress michelle rodriguez is an ex-jehovah's witness when michelle became an actress her mother who wouldn't let her watch disney movies due to witchcraft and sorcery told michelle she was now part of the devil's tool in hollywood michelle said the religion scarred her for life do you think your father was too strict yes no he's gonna kill me he's gonna get you still worried well he feels that he was stretched i'm glad he said it now i'll say it yes did he the jackson family is another example of famous ex-jehovah's witnesses catherine jackson is a devout jehovah's witness and she raised all her children in the religion even after rising to massive success michael jackson was still a witness and even on the years he was on tour he would participate in door-to-door witnessing but he always dawned a disguise as to not be recognized the jehovah's witness organization became angry with michael over his 1982 album thriller before it was even released this caused michael emotional turmoil and he called his manager john branca and begged him to destroy the one and only copy of the thriller music video which at the time was being edited and hadn't yet been released the jehovah's witnesses claimed michael's video was promoting demonology but michael's manager was able to convince michael to release thriller but with a disclaimer at the beginning of the video stating michael did not endorse the occult still the watchtower coerced michael to apologize for thriller and say it was something he would never do again the watchtower issued michael's apology in one of their magazine publications called awake but only a few years later latoya jackson was disfellowshipped in 1987 and according to the jehovah's witness religion michael was supposed to shun his sister something he refused to do this caused him to disassociate himself from the jehovah's witnesses in 1987 at 29 years old luke evans an actor and singer who was raised in the religion said quote i absolutely hated it end quote luke left home at 16 because he was gay and homosexuality isn't accepted in the jehovah's witness organization but they say if a member doesn't act on it then it's accepted but yeah no basically they're against homosexuality unlike this channel a few other famous ex-members include sherry shepard who said the religion destroyed her family naomi campbell and donald glover aka childish gambino although the jehovah's witnesses organization enjoys its tax-exempt status the members of this religion are not allowed to vote run for public office serve in the military or recite the pledge of allegiance the jehovah's witnesses organization believes in only pledging allegiance to their god and that god's kingdom they do not believe in humans ruling over one another today an ex-member is sharing their shocking story about being interrogated by the elders at only age 15 and why they fear for family members who are still involved this is kai's story as told to me kai welcome to the channel hi thank you so much for having me thank you for coming on you are the first interview i am doing that is not an anti-mlm one and really i told my husband i was like this feels like so crazy oh my gosh so i put it out there that i was looking to interview somebody from a jehovah's witness background somebody who had left i come from a fundamentalist background myself there's a lot to unpack there for a different video but i wanted to hear from a jehovah's witness viewpoint because from mine mine was a fundamentalist christian place that's where i come from church and home so i know that they're different and your story oh i got several people who emailed me amazing stories i appreciate everyone reaching out your story also really spoke to me because you talked about you it kind of sounded like you were living in a prison at home with just everything that was weighing on you um and you said something about when you were you were born into it and you were baptized and i remember that you said this is important because it's like a legally binding contract for life and instantly my alarm bells went off and i thought that reminds me of what leah remini talks about with scientology with i think that the sea org they have to sign a contract that legally binds them for for a lifetimes not even just for the rest of their life for lifetimes can you talk to me about what that baptism was like for you what it what it really means yeah absolutely so in the jehovah's witness faith they believe that like you baptize yourself to jehovah into the organization of his governing body basically so you're entering into it's a contract between you yourself and god and the leaders of the church and you're basically vowing your whole life to always be a practicing faithful totally bought in jehovah's witness and so i got baptized when i was eight okay i wasn't even old enough to understand that that's that that's what it is i was a child and in my opinion i was thinking about this um like because i knew you're gonna talk about it um it was like i never celebrated my birthday or had any like parties or anything like that but i would see kids in my congregation or in neighboring congregations like get parties for getting baptized or get gifts or like get some sort of recognition and i was like oh okay that's all i have to do like to have a special day or to have a present about myself yeah to literally to get a present so i remember being like okay i could do it you know like i'll and you get to sit um like in the convention hall you get to sit on the floor uh with the speaker like right in front of you and they give like a special talk like directed at the baptismal candidate and then they make you stand and they ask you two questions do you um you know i don't know do you like pledge or do you vow to um believe in or you know to serve jehovah god with you know whatever for forever and you say yes and everyone you say it all collectively if that's not the most thing that i've ever heard in my life um then i don't know what it is but i was eight years old and i am held accountable for a decision that i made when i was also wearing denim jeans under my skirts like you understand like i was a child like absolutely you were a minor yeah yeah a minor business to make a lifelong commitment at the age of eight years old so what made you want to speak out like what made you email me and say like okay i want to share my story because i know how difficult that is and when you when somebody doesn't come from like any type of fundamentalist background and they hear you talk about what you experienced growing up they're like dude you're weird whatever or they like they brush it off like oh whatever it's just church you know and it's like no no no it's like it was it was a whole different world so and it can be hard to speak about when especially when people don't understand and i feel like you're pretty brave coming forward on a public youtube channel what made you decide to speak out i don't know i don't know what i'm doing here honestly i think i'm just so tired um i'm tired of not having my family anymore and and not in the way that they don't talk to me because i do have some minimal contact with my family still and i'm actually taking a big risk doing this they might actually stop talking to me after this um but i'm tired of having all of this inside of me and having a platform already where i'm actively calling out people for their wrong behaviors and the way that you know they're able to manipulate people so to sit on this hurts me to know that my parents are slaves to a system that they know nothing about i know more about their religion than they do and it hurts me to know that they're being taken advantage of now i know you said that you you were born into the religion just like your parents were so when you say that you know more about the religion than they do when they've obviously been in it longer than you what makes you think you understand what do you think you understand that they do not i've done research on the history and how the organization started and like its murky background and how like the leaders and founders have their own shady histories and their own you know dark past and just like how the founders of the mlms do you know um they do too and they've been caught up in a lot of shady things and i've opened my mind to that to accept that information because my parents are actively taught not to seek out outsider information not to look at any other sources other than what they're being presented with so just for the sheer fact alone that i have looked outside of strictly the watchtower publications i am able to know like the actual histories of the current governing body members and their current stock holdings and they're fighting in the supreme court justice like all these court cases they're fighting in the supreme court right now and that's just not information that my parents are privy to because they're actively told not to go and look for it and what happens if the church finds out that you do you are considered to be an apostate and you're disfellowshipped which means that your family and all of your friends and everyone who claims to be a jehovah's witness basically pretends that you don't exist and they shun you and just won't even look at you add information sometimes sometimes just for looking sometimes just for questioning sometimes for like smoking cigarettes you can get the fellowship for anything kind of random aren't they it's always just like oh this time you're gone or like oh you slap on the wrist it's never consistent i've noticed with fundamentalist backgrounds talk to me about the birthdays let's go back to that because you said that and i remember like i did not know much about the jehovah's witness background growing up or i should say religion i did not know much about it in the fundamentalist christian world like we didn't even consider like catholics real christians yeah definitely not gonna look at jehovah's witness like that or anybody else um so i just and i was just brainwashed to believe that so i remember hearing though when i was in school i was maybe around middle school and i had a classmate who was jehovah's witness and i think i remember like the teacher wanting to do something for her birthday when it was coming up and they were like no no no she doesn't celebrate it she's jehovah's witness and i'm like what's that have to do with anything get this girl a cake okay like and they're like no no no it's against her religion and that always bothered me so yeah talk to me did you have did you see like classmates or your friends have birthdays did you growing up as a child really understand that you were being held back from being celebrated on the day of your birth and did it affect you did it bother you yeah um kind of because i i recognized it right like obviously you're in school you see other kids have birthdays um my parents were really cool though they would like try to offset that by like randomly coming in one day with cakes and treats and stuff and then i was just the kid whose mom sometimes brought cupcakes so that's pretty cool but to see like other people be special and like to know like my parents it's no big deal right it's just another day like they'll tell me oh you're this age now and that's like that's all that they'll say to me um so i didn't have my first birthday until i was 18. um but i always like i wanted to i felt i never felt special as a kid i guess like and then to be overlooked on what is supposed to be like this one day that's set aside just for you it's just completely like bypassed by my family like i don't know it sucks it definitely makes you feel like the other and why why don't jehovah's witness celebrate birthdays it's it's some scripture uh there's like a the only instances in the bible where like a birthday party is like referred to ended up with someone dying so their theology is that god does not want you to have any sort of celebration for yourself that might potentially put you over him in your eyes or in the eyes of other people so it's like it's an they see it as like a word like a celebration of the self and they're for like a false god or like idolatry okay yeah like a celebration of the flesh or whatever yeah yeah but i think like it's just meant to rid them of any sort of actual individuality like they're not even allowed to have a single day that means anything about them wow what was your home life for like growing up because i remember in your email you're like i still love my family so much like they're good people you know so i what was your home life like growing up in this oppressive religion yeah i remember like as a kid i mean obviously i didn't see it that way um in fact i remember thinking that like everyone was jokes with this when i was a kid like because that's like what we talk about like how we're all one big happy family and we we're all over the world and so many like different languages and cultures and stuff so i just always grew up thinking like oh yeah everyone thinks this way and then like as i started going to school i realized how different i was um and then it started to make me pretty resentful of my parents as i got older um and just having to constantly deal with being the weird kid or being like the kid who has no friends or can't do anything or you know has like strict parents or whatever i'm the weird church kid like i was i feel like that's all i ever got to be like any time that i really wanted to express myself or do something that i was interested in it was always having to be minimized by well you know this comes first your spirituality comes first and i do love my family like i i don't think i'd be doing this if i didn't love my family um because i think it's important that people know and what is really going on but growing up my parents were great i mean i had a really solid relationship with my mom um like as a kid i felt like she was my best friend uh we'd do everything together and then just as i got older and i started to realize how much i really longed for just a normal life um it started to get worse and then after i like pretty much told them that i was or that they came out like well it came out that i was struggling in my struggling in my faith um and then they started to see me differently i feel like i wasn't their kid anymore i was a roommate or somebody that they just tolerated that and that like happened pretty young uh for me i was 15 years old when i like got found out for not really believing in the faith anymore um and so it was a long time that i had still to live at my parents home um and to have like that awkward rift where they're trying to they're trying to save me that's what it felt like all the time was like they were always trying to find a new way to get through to me and it felt really patronizing um at the time because and i knew i was like i don't want i know that this isn't my life i'm i was a child but i was like i know that this isn't right for me um and so they they it just felt like they were always like trying to grasp that straws but when i really needed them they couldn't help me because they just weren't a part of the same reality that i was in yeah so you mentioned in your email that you i think at 12 years old started um wanting to have like boyfriends and using the internet to talk to your peers and whatnot which is a completely normal thing to do and you said that's when things started to go downhill for you with your family and you felt like you were a roommate and you said you even lived in fear some days of if your parents would even acknowledge you can you talk to me about that yeah absolutely um so yeah to be 12 years old i mean i remember having like one you remember those touch i oh my god the ipods like the first thing ipod yes okay so i got one of those as a gift like for my grandma one day she like went to rc william bought me an ipod adorable and so i was like oh this has wi-fi capabilities that's very useful and i would like use it for my school work but i mean i was just curious when you're kept away from something for so long all it does is make you want to peek behind the curtain make you want to like okay well if it's so bad they like my parents taught me their religion taught me my whole life that there's nothing for you in this world like this world will get you addicted to drugs you'll you'll be divorced from your family your kids will hate you your you know your boss will be mean to you just like all these negative things that they tell you or like they propagandize the world around you to keep you inside the organization so after so long of listening to that like like this is bad and this is wrong i'm like well is it really like if you don't want me to look so bad that's only making me want to do it more right so i think expanding my horizons and actually getting to see bits and pieces you know what you can see on the internet um definitely like made me you know long for my you know my chance to leave and and just actually see things for myself um so yeah so like what i mean what all that was is just like i had an instagram um and i would take pictures of mostly of myself and just like different makeup looks and i thought that i was gonna be a model someday doing a lot of that sort of stuff and that's like really innocent and that's pretty basic for like a 12 13 year old person uh to be on social media you know like that um and then i don't know like i had a myspace too i remember my mom found my myspace one day and it was like it was like a disgrace a dishonor to our family i can't believe you would do this she made me he made me wait in my room until my dad came home and tell him myself to his face like that's how big of a deal it was like that ahead of my face and i was like talking to boys and stuff and i was like this is talking to a boy named tom wow yeah i mean so that i mean if that that's how my parents react to things when they find out about what's going on in my life i'm not going to want to tell you anything i'm never going to open up to you i'm never going to tell you anything that's going on in my life and that's difficult because there were times where i wanted my mom to be there for me dude like i can't even talk to my own mom about my real life like about what's really happening to me and i just always wanted her to be someone that i could actually approach with things like the way that i don't know like the way that they're like books always tell them to be like listen to your child or help them walk through things i never felt like i could do that because i was under this constant pressure just to remain perfect or to keep up in appearance with them and that sucks like just being totally unsupported in those like critical years of your life like 12 to 18 years old even at you know any age it's so painful but especially during your formative years absolutely and it's very easy to feel so isolated and alone at that time and i found with some family members trying to talk to them because it seems like you know a lot of religions talk about or i should say fundamentalist backgrounds talk about forgiveness and acceptance but if you don't believe in their religion and their way of life they're not going to accept you and it's a completely contradicting theory and i found like when talking with some fundamentalist family members about you know the lifestyle i choose to leave that is not like theirs it's almost like you're so close to seeing the real them underneath but there's just like this veil this like wall in between where like it's the indoctrination just talking and so when you say like you wanted to be close to your mom and like have her there with you to understand you i can completely understand that um what was it like when so was that when they started um not talking to you as much when you how did that come about why did that happen why did they not yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so weird i was so i had been on the internet you know whatever for like three years i was like 15 years old and i mean i was doing pretty good right like i was able to i had my whole life at school i was a completely different person when i left my house and then when i came home you know i kept it pushing it's just i don't know it was like a survival skill just survival mode and i remember one day i came home from work i like worked in elementary school at like 15 years old came home and my parents are like oh um go uh go uh wash up and get ready because we're gonna have some elders or some church leaders come over to talk to us and so i was thinking like oh okay like they're just gonna have dinner with us and then we'll hang out we're just like sitting in my living room they're talking having like you know pie and ice cream or whatever just having like a good night and then all of a sudden one of them gets up and leaves goes out to the car and then comes back in with an envelope a manila envelope and like sets it on our coffee table and it's like we found out about your uh social media accounts and we just have a couple of questions on like what is really going on here and i'm like okay i'm like 15 years old and i was just attacked in my own home like so now you're on trial in your living room yeah yeah exactly like it was a setup dude like they didn't even tell my dad that that was gonna happen it was out of nowhere did your mom know no no no women aren't told anything before they're told before the manifold of course so so so it wasn't just in your family that they didn't want you to have social media it was also within the entire religion they don't want you to have any social media accounts because they consider that the outside world yeah kinda sorta like their their stance on it has changed a lot since i left um because back then it was like if you had one you were kind of obsessed but if you talked about like the church or it was like you know nice and proper then okay it's fine um but mine i didn't have any other witnesses on my profile like i kept it very secretive because i wanted to be myself like you're just i'm going to talk about who i am yeah like my biggest defense was that i was like swearing or that i was like posting lyrics from songs that i liked that were you know well maybe not appropriate or whatever and nothing like that but they're like going through all these pictures they're asking me who's commenting on my pictures i'm like i don't know so when they pull out this manila we need to break down this trial because i would if that happened to me i would still be livid to this day so when they pull this manila envelope out and start like they pull out what do they pull out from it screenshots like screenshots from someone's cell phone of my instagram page my twitter um different things that i said different conversations people had with me in my comments like a whole bunch of different pictures of me like and they just printed it off yeah and they were showing my mom and dad oh my god it was mortifying oh i'm still a little worse well yeah you probably have ptsd from that my god you're a minor and they're like attacking you in your own home and your parents don't even know what's coming like that's not okay that's not normal in any way so what did your parents do when they pull this out and they start accusing you of the sinful things on your social media yeah well and that was so crazy because they used that to question me on whether or not i had been having premarital sex at 15 years old a grown man old enough to be my grandfather asked me in front of my mom and dad if i was having sex wow wow how inappropriate but i i grew up in the purity oh the purity movement so you know promise rings all that jonas brothers like with their little promise rings so i that actually doesn't surprise me as disgusting as it is but anybody who's who went through that kind of stuff like and it's disgusting it's absolutely disgusting and what were your parents doing when they were like asking you that i don't think that they were just shocked they they were just speechless um as like the first time that i've ever seen my dad cry was he crying because he was upset with your social media present or because he was upset with the elders or what do you think he was upset i think he was upset because he like realized that he didn't know who i was um and i think he was definitely more like they were definitely more disappointed and like ashamed of me than they were upset um and i don't even remember how i had the balls to say this but my mom was like i want to know what else is out there and i'm like you absolutely will not you will not no because after what happened to me i'm not going through this again and so how long did these [ __ ] interrogate you for while your parents sat there it felt like hours honestly like i remember they got to our house at like dinner time like 6 7 i don't think they left until like 10 or 11. and it was a school night uh how inappropriate so they just thought that because so is the church put over family in that organization basically because my dad my dad wasn't an elder but he was like the second tier to that like he was a respectable person in the in the congregation and he had a lot of responsibilities and so i'm a reflection of him and if i'm out of line then he's out of line and he needs to get his home in order so they came to put him in check basically to let him know what's going on behind his back when i just feel like in my opinion it's nobody's business what i'm doing it has nothing to do with how my parents believe and they were always held accountable for me for my actions because i'm not doing i'm not doing the things that i'm supposed to be doing um so my dad got like my dad got um this is my dad's life and it means a lot to him um and he had a lot taken away from him because of me and he was held back from doing the most that he wanted to that was like on his heart to do because of who i was and that's so manipulative because you weren't doing anything wrong and yet the church is punishing your dad and saying we're taking these things away from you because your daughter's like this and that is so manipulative and such um a control tactic of fundamentalist groups and high control organizations and you know it's really sickening let's go back to where he asked you if you were having sex or not and you're 15 years old now in the purity movement where that i grew up in in the 90s which was rampant um men were definitely not um put under a microscope how the women were um you know men were told things like oh women are temptresses they will tempt you they will make you stumble so you need to make sure you look away and women you need to make sure that you cover up so you don't tempt a man it's it's always the woman's fault did you do do you notice anything like that in the jehovah's witness religion um yes yes and no i feel like it's kind of even though like one of their one of their church leaders like went on a whole rant back in like 2014 about the tightness of your clothing and he had he went in on both men and women so i think they're pretty like across the board like repressive in both directions however like women just don't have any place or say in the structure of this organization at all like your best hope is to marry a powerful man oh boy so did you have like uh uniforms that you had to wear or did you have like a regulations when it comes to your attire um it was just like modest like you can basically wear whatever you want to wear it's just like they're okay the tricky part is that there is no rules like for that um you're kind of just like left to your own devices and hope that the choices you make are correct so i always made the wrong choice my skirts were always like a little too sore or my top would be like a little too you know so my dad was always getting pulled in the back room uh in our church to be like make sure she didn't wear that again or make sure that she didn't show up in that again and um and that's embarrassing and like that's like a little degrading i feel like um it's very degrading it's very shaming now as well so when you're sitting there and you're being interrogated and i'm i'm really honing in on this part because this is when it seemed like your life drastically changed from this moment on so you're sitting there and they're interrogating you uh these elders how were you responding to them i don't i don't even remember i think i like astral projected myself somewhere else um i just sat there i just took it i just i didn't know what else to do i think i can't i like because i knew i mean they were talking about they were talking about disfellowshipping me um kind of like they're like well we don't know if it has to go that far yet so we're gonna talk about it later and we'll let you know and i just something in my mind was just like lie lie lie tell them how sorry you are tell them how bad you want to like stay and tell them how bad you want to like get your faith back or do whatever you have to do like say whatever you have to say and that's just what i did i just i told them like i'm just struggling in my faith i don't know if i believe in god anymore like i really need help i don't need to be pushed away like please don't take my family away and i remember for a whole week they waited to tell me if they were gonna take my family away from me how does so how does that work they tell you like when they say we're gonna take your family away from you i mean you're 15 years old you're a minor so that's not even legal how exactly what does that mean to take your family away from you at such a young age i mean at 15 i don't think that my parents like would have kicked me out i think they would have dealt with it um like as best they could but it means like no one else in my family is allowed to talk to me no one else at the congregation is allowed to talk to me i don't exist basically and unless like my mom is going to you know unless it's like something pertaining to like a family matter like you know in instances where you have to be together those are the only times that you can talk to that person wow so you're completely shunned and then you're not allowed back in the is it the church or the temple you're not well so like you still have to go to the kingdom hall even though you're disfellowshipped i mean if you're just fellowship you don't want to go you obviously don't but if you want to get back in you have to go and they make you sit like either in the back or up at the very front like some weird place um and they you sit and no one talks to you no one looks at you you just sit and you're quiet and you can't comment you can't read scriptures you just sit there listen to the meeting and sing the song and go home like you have to be like the first to leave um when it's over and so it's important for psychological abuse it's yeah um to like i remember so there were two sisters and they're sitting next to each other in the congregation and they're talking like this one of them is just fellowship and the other one is talking to her just having a conversation like sisters and she got in trouble for talking to her sister because they were at the like the church wow wow so how long is that psychological abuse where they just pretend you're dead supposed to go on let me guess it's different for everybody right cda or like tba like tpd could be announced you know to as basically there's a whole process that you have to go through that's not even a guarantee that it'll actually mean anything um you have to like write a couple of letters explaining why you deserve to come back or why you're so sorry or what you're doing to like make amends now or whatever pertaining to like whatever the incident was um and how you like progress spiritually during this time and then they like meet with you and like see where you are and if you're like making progress which it's such a vague how do you make progress you can't talk to anyone you can't do anything you can't comment you can't you're just stuck in in a box how do you make progress when you're stuck um and then so eventually like someday maybe if you're good enough they'll let you come back in and they make an announcement oh when you get to fellowship a man walks up to the podium a different man than a like a special uh it's a special position of person comes up to the podium opens a letter and says the following person is no longer a jehovah's witness closes the letter and goes and sits back down and it's dead silent not even a pin drop that is the most shameful thing you can ever imagine and they make you come like you like basically you have to come wait you got the person who they're disfellowshipping has to be there for that most of the time yeah like they would like well they would like you to be there i bet they would i bet they would so you the person who's being disfellowshipped is sitting there and they're like this is his fellowship and she's or he is just supposed to take it and then and then they leave afterwards like right away i mean you can uh if you want to get up in front of everyone after just having that announcement you can you know um i don't know how i would have done that i never thought about it like wow i don't know did you see that happen to people in your kingdom hall it's the word it's so it's so cringy oh god it's like the worst feeling ever yeah i can tell you it still like makes you cringe just thinking about it yeah that's absolutely insane has anybody ever said anything when they did that like did anybody ever like gasp or stand up or anyone just say shout or anything um i remember a couple people like you know like oh my gosh but that's about it like that's relatively the only kind of emotion that you're supposed to show because it's supposed to be a dignified experience right it's supposed to be a loving arrangement that's what they consider it to be we're doing this because we love you we're punishing you because we love you and we want you to come back we're not going to talk to you so that you'll be desperate for our attention and desperate for our love and you'll be forced to come back we're going to treat you like [ __ ] because we love you it's really bad it's it's not right and and the worst part about it is that there is really no biblical reasoning for it it's actually something that the catholics used to do and a jehovah's witness organization in its pre you know pre-formative years condemned the catholic church for shunning their members and said that it was an unholy and ungodly practice and this was like back in the early 1900s but then they later adopted this arrangement like in the 1960s or 70s something like that and it's just so convenient just to keep people in or to keep people's families hostages from them and they used to have an option for you where if you wanted to like formally disassociate yourself from the religion like you could write a respectful letter and just let them know you know like this isn't for me anymore and i'm gonna go this way um and up until the 1980s you wouldn't be disfellowshipped for that you they were like oh okay it's not for you anymore that's fine but in 1980 they changed that thinking they changed that teaching to where you would automatically be disfellowshipped and most people consider you to be an apostate of the faith if you disassociate and if you're considered an apostate then you're basically the devil and no one talks to you and everyone's afraid of you like there are so many people that have reputations in my old community because they like dissented from the religion and really like these people are just their eyes have just opened they've just seen the light basically like they've seen the truth for what it is wow so it really is like scientology where they become what scientologists call a suppressive person and you are completely shunned completely wow that is oh my gosh it's it's such it's such a cult experience and it's a horrible thing and that's such a horrible thing to go through and the fact that they put people on blast in the front of the church um and even like try and make them be there that's that's so abusive um can you tell me after that night happened and they're all mad because you have a myspace and an instagram what was life like for you from there until when did you leave the house um yeah i left my house like 18 and a half ish um i was just i did i did what they asked me to do because they're my parents and i respect them and in a way it was like trying to make you're okay to make the last few moments count for what for what they were um and i could have done a better job at that because i remember being really mad and really angry at them all the time and always fighting and always being like intense and anxious in my house and just like keeping things from them like i mean but that was also a way to protect yourself because you had grown men come into your house and verbally assault and harass you and ask you an appropriate question so there's nobody can blame you for hiding you know things about your life yeah um it is what it is my um i'm sorry no you're fine yeah i just i did what they did um you know i did what they asked me to do because it's just the kind of person that i am and um it it sucked for a long time because it was like this is obviously not what i'd rather be doing you know what i'd likely be doing if it were my choice but i tried to do um the best that i could i i still like went out in their ministry service and i still raised my hand to comment at the meeting and pretend to be smart for 30 seconds and um just i don't know like i just did i did the thing because it was just what it was and i was miserable inside i was really depressed what would you say were the biggest differences that you noticed in your home life from before that night and after what were a couple big things that really changed i think that's important to to know because it was pretty much like you were in the group and then all of a sudden you were pretty much on the outside my parents stopped seeing potential in me they stopped seeing potential what potential did they see in you beforehand just i don't know like just to get you know marry a nice guy do you know be a faithful person have have a nice family or you know go be a missionary or be you know something that i'm not wow so just for having an instagram a twitter and a myspace you were looked at like a bad person wow and it was not just my parents it was other people in the congregation too so they do too well that's how they found out was because someone ratted on me someone found it and told wow because that's what you're told but that's what they're taught they're taught that if you see someone after the mess and you turn them in um you're supposed to give them the chance to come up for themselves to come out with it themselves that was never given to me i never had that opportunity and i don't know if it's because i was a child and i'm not granted the same grace or whatever but yeah um so the yeah i think um i'm sorry no you're fine were did you after so what were like i asked you what you answered about the potential and that's how they started treating you different did you end up deleting your myspace and instagram and twitter to appease them or you just went ahead and did you i was still i was very i kept like very more private like a lot more private but i still had it because i i needed that more than ever who else did i have right other than you know friends that i had online or people that i didn't even know which is so funny because i'm like friends with a lot of these people like still like i have a lot of just internet friends that i've never met in real life but have like seen me like grow up and like become the person that i am today and a lot of those people have been like more there for me than my family sometimes that's not surprising when you're dealing with people from a fundamentalist background that's unfortunately not surprising at all where when you found these people who who understood you and maybe had even gone through some of the same things you did did you look at it as like a means of like okay like i found a group they get me and like did you plan an escape how did you end up leaving i didn't i think at the point um where i was when that happened with uh with the elders and everything like i still i knew that it was like weird that what my parents believed was like weird and that it wasn't for me but i didn't think of it as like a harmful thing um because it was just the way that i was raised um just conditioned to think that that's okay right uh that that happened so i was still like very much in the mindset of like well maybe it is the true religion and i'll figure that out i'll get to that bridge and i'll cross that bridge when i get there but i remember i mean i was just i was buying less and less into it like just trying to keep my mental sanity right and i remember being like in a sunday service and i was just like barely barely barely paying attention like just enough to scratch the surface and this man really started talking about being weary of the danger of sorry like being weary of the danger of independent thinking like literally actually thinking for yourself and i tell you when my jaw like almost dropped because uh like what do you say what do you think about how do you what and so like i remember i got up like i excused myself i got up i went to the restroom i i looked on my phone and like i googled it and i was like jehovah's witness cult and everyone was like hi hello yes you have arrived i was like 16 or 17 years old when that when this happened this is like 2015 and i was like oh my god i had to go back out into a room full of people listening to a person tell them not to think for themselves and and you to know that it's a cult and that it's a lie and then it's been alive this whole time and i can't say anything sounded like you're having like an existential crisis like yeah like it all and then i just saw it all so much more sinisterly like from that point forward i was like oh my god everyone is trapped like everyone's being taken advantage of everyone's being mentally and emotionally abused like sometimes financially abused too or at least manipulated and yeah and when you left when you finally left and you moved out of your parents house how old were you and did life get better for you um i don't know i wouldn't i went through a lot um even after i left my parents house or left my parents church like just in my own life um and i was 18 on my own i like met this girl on facebook and she needed a roommate and i was making nine dollars an hour so she was like you can live here for like 120 bucks a month and i was like cool like that's awesome and she's like took me in and then i don't know i've just really been like hustling my way more and more like i started with a room and then i got a room and a bathroom and now i have a room and a kitchen and a bathroom in another room so yeah we're doing good we're making changes we're making progress yes um and it's like my parents have been there for me like financially um like they've helped me kind of establish myself and i think a lot of that has to do with the fact that they might have like felt guilty um a little bit that i was on my own so young not prepared for anything um do they kick me out pretty fast wait they talked to you out they sat me down they're like we think it's time that you leave like we're gonna give you a couple of days a couple of days yeah and you were 18 i was like starting my first semester of college um yeah wow and i mean is that the norm in a jehovah's witness family or um i know a lot of families like where their kids like have never left their parents home like that's not uncommon but like because like there's no real appeal to being a young single person as a jehovah's witness and you really ultimately just want to get married so that your like actual life begins i don't know in my opinion that's how i see it i'm sure there's tons of like single 30 flirty and thriving jehoshas um but that's how i saw it was like there's just no use in it you don't get to have the real actual young adult experiences and like the bumps and bruises of your early 20s like you're just not allowed any of that grace to actually experiment and find out who you truly are right right wow that would be so difficult now you're in your mid-20s and what do you don't say that i'm in my mid-30s it's okay so you're in your mid-20s and what do you do now and i noticed that you're covered in tattoos which i love and so it's you're very expressive and it seems like you're really owning who you are do you feel like you've come into who you are yeah um i think there's something about knowing that someday your family could just cut you off that makes you kind of a little bit hard like just a little bit more independent um i definitely feel like i had to adapt i don't know like i just i had to cultivate a little bit of a hustler mentality a little bit just to because i don't know if that's going to be there for me that's not a sure backup plan so i have to do what i have to do to keep it pushing and my my independence and my freedom has always been my number one priority um and i will do anything to keep that to protect that that is my the most important asset that i have um is my mind and that i have ownership of my own mind and i think who i am now i had to get i had to go through a lot not even just this um to become who i am today and i still don't think that i've really reached my final form um but i get a little bit closer every year and the more that i look back on my childhood the more i realize and the less angry i am at my family um because i know that they're victims too um and it's not their fault what happened and they did what they did because they loved me and they think that that's how things should happen like that's just what they have that's those are the tools that they were given so i can't really hold them accountable for just doing what they know and what do you do now um now um i'm a content creator um content creator oh yay yes so i do that i'm on youtube and i'm an amateur model and i got multiple streams of income and you know i have a nine to five like everyone else but and you're not in an mlm i get health insurance i get 401k yes benefits that's wonderful have you what do you feel do you still identify as jehovah's witness at all no um i used to be so funny i used to be like super non-denominational christian which is why i have like a lot of christy tattoos um and that's not for me anymore either i think my philosophy now is like i wake up every day and i do try to be more like jesus just in the way that i'm graceful and i'm understanding that i'm accepting that i'm loving um because i think that that's all you have to be i don't i think you can leave everything else behind and that's the core message of it is just to be a loving person um and oh yeah let's just wake up every day and try to be good good person yeah just try not to be an [ __ ] what a concept yeah yeah what do you feel besides talking with like-minded people online um who had similar experiences what do you feel has helped you um through all of this so did you get in therapy did you read any books was there a certain experience that really helped you yeah absolutely um i watch a lot of youtube videos actually there is a very robust ex-jehovah's witness community on youtube and so i got really involved in a lot of that and that's helped me like you know when i'm feeling down about missing my family i'll like go and watch a video and remember like this is why i'd be doing this this is why it matters um and that's been really helpful to me and also just like having a support system um not necessarily people who were asked to host witness or like were ex fundamental anything like my boyfriend grew up like wiccan so really he's like yeah he like totally doesn't understand so that he could understand what i was like up against right and yeah and i did like i've done like writing i used to like write like a non like an anonymous blog that i wouldn't found the other day and i was like oh my god so so tragic but it's like that i was i was 18 when i was writing that stuff so that's like real and raw like in the moment of what i was actually going through and some of the stuff that i was reading like to my boyfriend was so like powerful like stuff that i not that i forgot that i felt but just that i guess i forgot like the actual weight and pressure of because it's something that i walk with every day so um it's like i don't know how to i don't know how to take down an organization like that you know it's like there's so many of them and they're all and there's one of me and yeah but i i think that there is cause for hope because they had their last in their last they would like do a census of their members every year and release their numbers out and i guess last year they had an actual decline their first ever recorded decline in membership and record time and it's funny because their theology says that people should be like coming more and more and more as like the end is drawing near but people are like falling off and in 2015 in australia the australian royal commission found 1006 cases of unreported child like csa like wow and that's actually what got me like disgusted and angry um was to hear that that happened when the same year that i was turning 18 that i was graduating high school and i remember like watching those live streams like the court inside the actual australian courtroom of the real members of my parents church lying to the australian government for their right to keep secret records of child abuse that's what they're in the supreme court fighting for right now they're fighting for church's rights to keep and maintain secret records wow oh my gosh that is so disturbing and how long has that been going on um i i mean since well at least since 2002 because there was a dateline or like a 2020 special something like that on jehovah's witnesses about how they had this secret the secret database that they kept the names of predators on and where they lived and what happened and everything but they're not reported they're not going to the police and nothing's actually being done about it and these people aren't actually even being disfellowshipped either they're not disfellowshipped no they're not being removed from the congregation in most cases because they have a loophole called the two witness rule i've heard of this go on yes yes two people need to be witness to a wrongdoing for it to have really happened that sounds like a rule that protects nobody but abusers wow so these people can be i'm guessing the majority of these essay cases are men in the the church can commit all these horrible acts on minors but yet you having a twitter and a myspace and an instagram you're practically disfellowshipped but that well then we'll give them a pass wow that is shocking and you know the sad thing is like there's so many that type of stuff is covered up in so many fundamentalist religious organizations all the time oh and it's it's sickening it's terrible i'm glad that they're having a decline in members they um there there's a lot to that they're i mean their stories i mean they're obviously not my stories to tell but i know like firsthand people that i that i grew up with in the same congregation that had instances like that happen where nothing was done it never went anywhere uh and it's disgusting it is horrible i have a niece i have a niece that i don't barely know right she's like three years old um and that terrifies me it terrifies me that nothing's being done about it and they're just going unreported like not to the police not to anyone who can actually do something about it like they'll take it to a judicial hearing a judicial committee within the church like they actually have some kind of authority to do something about it and they tell people sometimes not even to go to the authorities they and in states that they do not have to legally they're not mandated reporters they don't they tell you to go to the organization's legal help desk which that person most of the time is a paralegal not even a real lawyer right wow so you're worried about your niece growing up in that type of environment of course i would i'm worried about any child growing up in that environment like not alone let alone growing up with the mindset and how much that messed me up just just even the actual religion and the actual structure itself but the fact that there's like this other thing happening behind the background that people like my parents and my brother and his wife are not made privy to they're not being given the full picture the full scope of what they're actually signing up for when they join in and that's it's wrong it's wrong that they're not allowed to learn about their own religion that they're not allowed to seek out other like outsider information that's by design that was my next question have you asked or have you asked them about it have you told them about what's happening don't know how i really don't i mean every time my mom just sent me pictures of my niece and i like haven't seen her in like six months so i and it just breaks my heart every time like i don't know how to say that um because like i i've had conversations with my family before and it always comes down to well do you do you really think that we're stupid enough to join something harmful or do you really think that we're like that we would be doing something that was wrong yes yes people are manipulated into doing things that are wrong all the time right it's so easy if you were raised a certain way and conditioned to believe that your whole life of course you could co-sign any kind of foolishness if that's what you're brought up to believe in and it's not about being stupid or smart it's just about being a human being with vulnerabilities who can get sucked into these types of things any type of um recruitment tactics that they use are you uncomfortable yes um a lot of time when someone new comes in who's like a convert who's not been born in who has no like previous association it's because they're a very vulnerable person or they're looking for community like it's like it's definitely the stereotype but like the person who has no friends or has no family or you know is not doing well in life or has a partner that's not invested in them or you know whatever um that's very common uh to see like a new person is usually someone who's like coming from you know a place of like hurting or maybe they just lost okay so let's say that you're like out in the door-to-door ministry or whatever and you knock on someone's door and they answer and they tell you that like someone in their family just recently passed like passed away their first knee-jerk reaction is to preach about their resurrection hope because they believe that everyone who's died now who didn't know the name of jehovah will be resurrected and given an opportunity to pass like a test of faith in the new world order like after armageddon or whatever and so to tell a person who's just experienced the loss like that that they might be able to see their loved one in the future again is pretty manipulative like that's it's pretty wrong it's definitely wrong do they seek out like that info right away yes they will write letters to people who um post it in the obituaries people to do that they they go through obituaries and like online in the newspaper to target them to recruit i actually literally just got a letter in my mailbox the other day like inviting me to their convention so they do like they write letters and stuff to people like yeah it's a little like invasive oh yeah so in that it's time to get a restraining order in that letter that they send out to these people who just had a family member pass away and they're completely vulnerable and depressed and sad is that when they tell them in the letter about the resurrection yeah like they'll cite like scriptures and stuff like um it's like a scripture in revelation uh talking about like all you know god will wipe away every tear from your eye and everything and and death will be no more and neither sickness nor pain you know and that's a really comforting thought um that's a really my my grandfather died when i was like 16. i'm sorry um that is what it is um and i remember that like kind of having that cognitive dissonance for a while of like this person who is really important to me is passing away but if i'm good if i'm good enough then i might be able to have them one more time or see them one more time and then also feeling the way that i felt of like knowing that i don't really want to do this like it does keep you in it is a tactic it's a manipulation tactic for sure one manipulation tactic that i saw in my fundamentalist upbringing and that i see just as prevalent today especially during these crazy times during the pandemic is talk of the rapture and that the rapture is always near and you don't want to be left behind um and i remember being seven years old and being terrified that maybe i wasn't good enough and i would be left behind and i look back now as a 34 year old woman and i i get so angry because i'm like no child should live with that fear did you feel that kind of fear growing up oh yeah absolutely um because it's not so much that you're baptized and it's not so much that you say you're a jehovah's witness maybe that you go to all the meetings you have to be very devout very practicing like totally buy-in cannot have any doubt if you have doubt you need to figure it out like it's they don't even tell you necessarily what the requirements are but if you're not doing your absolute best you're not exhausting yourself then don't even think about being counted in the paradise like it's not gonna happen and they're very vocal about that pressure that they put on people like make sure you're doing enough if you feel like you have time left over if you have time to be relaxing at home watching tv watching the sports game then you're not doing enough if you have time to have hobbies and you know other interests outside of this then you're not doing enough they don't want you to have hobbies or watch tv basically not like i mean it's come they don't come out and say that but it's so blatant like it's so blatantly obvious that that's what they mean with their different like propaganda that they put out like there's a new video that they're releasing this summer of like this dad and daughter um video and the daughter and they like they're supposed to do family worship every like one day a week and the whole video is about how the dad is like tired one day like that on that day he's like oh we'll do it next week and then it like flash forwards through his daughter growing up to be like rebellious and she's like trading her pink cardigan in for a leather jacket and putting on dark lipstick and hoop earrings and walking out to oh not like it's so hilarious and like they're there you know she like walks out to the door and her boyfriend comes and gets her and everything and the dad is still sitting there watching tv because one night he was tired his whole daughter's life is over and that's the mentality that they want you to have but you know what's the sad about that is that i'm sure that that's how my parents feel oh first yeah i'm sure that they feel like we never did enough we weren't we didn't press hard enough we didn't get through to them like yeah fundamentalist religions it's always shame and guilt that is put on people so heavy and it drives them and like you said that keeps people in that guilt and that shame and it keeps them silent and complicit and of course they're probably wondering where did i mess up why did why did my daughter leave what did i cause you know what did i do they probably think i watch too much tv it can be like the littlest thing that can weigh on somebody so much when you're indoctrinated into something so toxic and well when the stakes are as high as i'm going to be dead and you're never going to see me again like forever like and you're going to continue to live on forever you have to live your life forever without your one of your children um i'm sure that that guilt is a lot more immense and a lot more just like overwhelming than i can really imagine like i my mom told me about it one time um about how my dad was like cry to her about it um just about how like he doesn't know um what's gonna happen to me like he's really genuinely concerned that i'm gonna die in armageddon yeah yeah no that's that's absolutely a huge concern in fundamentalism and it's just so i just see so much needless suffering and despair and fundamentalism and it's sad because you have a full life to live that should be yours that should not be under such control um and toxicity it's so sad what would you want people to know maybe somebody who's even where you were when you were creeping around on the internet when you weren't supposed to and trying to find that support that you didn't feel you got anywhere else what do you want people to know about life then versus now for you um yeah i mean life then i felt very like a you know a bird in a cage wanting to fly free and only being limited to what i'm you know what is around me or what i'm being told is supposed to be my life and it's really scary to move on from everything that you've ever known and you might be very afraid but you got this and then when you get out and when you actually start to see the world for what it really is and how much of a beautiful place it really is you'll understand why they wanted you to stay away because you don't need them you don't need to you don't need to defer your own happiness for a paradise that's never coming when you could be happy right now today right and um is it okay if if i say something to my mom and dad sure i don't know i don't know if you're ever going to watch this video and i hope maybe someday you do and i want you to know that i'm not angry and i don't hate you um i'm not upset with you for raising me this way and i did this because i think it's important that you know what is really happening behind the scenes of what you're being told because i love you enough not to lie to you and tell you that you're fine or that this is okay or to allow this to continue to happen both of my parents are like in their mid-50s and so it's five decades of their whole lives that they both lost being slaves to a system that really doesn't care about them um and yeah i just i think that if you are struggling as a jehovah's witness or any faith or whatever um it gets better it gets more normal over time and i feel like there are good things that being raised that way did for me like i think that it gave me a good public speaking voice like because i had to i had to talk to strangers knock on their door and try to sell them a magazine i was like the top agent and my job because i was like such a good children i'm just not afraid to talk to people like you can't phase me like that kind of stuff is actually pretty cool and i'm glad that i've been able to get some sort of positivity out of it um but yeah like you just you you become more used to it i guess like it gets easier as time goes on so you said you sold a magazine were you selling things as a kid not like selling things but you're like selling someone on the religion basically like when you go out in the ministry like you're trying to start conversations with people to start a bible study to start a conversion process so that's like how they get new members it's like they're door-to-door work but that i mean since kobe they haven't been able to do that um so a lot of them have like resorted to doing the letter writing because it's a lot more social distance um like safe i guess and i don't know um it's weird so if that's a weird experience like you're just knocking on strangers doors on a saturday morning unannounced and trying to convert them and that is just the most awkward conversation i really ran into people that i knew sometimes like from school oh my gosh when you run into someone from school it's mortifying oh just i'm like oh my god someone like smushed me like that's totally understandable oh my goodness what did you ever have somebody react crazily to you yeah oh my god we had people that would like scream in our faces like you're a cult like this is wrong like you shouldn't be doing this and it's wrong that you have your kid out here doing this and now obviously i'm like that yeah that man is not incorrect but he still could have gone about him in a different way for sure so when you would hear those things when you were young did it did it make you start to wonder is this not normal or were you just like did it just turn you away from them um i don't know i think like as a kid like they t well they kind of prime you that people are going to be um you know not risk like well receiving of your message okay and they they kind of they have a persecution conflict because they teach that they're the one true religion obviously and therefore they're the target of lots of hatred and persecution which is not untrue like they're um unfairly banned in certain places of the country um i don't know i feel like about that but so yeah i mean like they're not without persecution but they definitely like lay it on thick like it's like a fetish like it's fetishized like if you have a story where someone was mean to you the worse the more violent the more scary the better like they want those like really cherry-picked you know martyrdom level stories um and it's pretty gross honestly like they they make um a lot out of uh like different persecution stories or like different hardship stories that people have like in their programming like use those like emotionally manipulate people into buying like buying more in and just they play like the sappy music and you know they the tears in the eyes just it's a whole production it is a production when are you in australia no you're in the u.s okay because you mentioned australia earlier and i was like she in australia but i thought you were in the us okay what are your feelings on where you said that they're not allowed to be in the country and where where is that why yeah so specifically like in russia right now russia all of their um like they're not allowed to meet in groups anymore they're not allowed to like do their ministry they're not even allowed to have their own literature i don't think like they can't be caught having their own literature because like they're seen as an extremist group in russia because they have like really not like anti-government not like anti-government beliefs but they do have some like well we don't believe that the government is like really the true government and we only subscribe to god's government basically thinking that they're like i guess the russian authorities are not okay with that idea and they consider it to be anti-government it's not really in my opinion because they they're a law-abiding people like but the job is witnessing by and large are very good good people like very kind very loving good people um and they're law abiding folks and their literature tells them to be like law abiding in the land where they live but in russia like they have banned their like their services and stuff and people are being thrown in jail and they had like a whole letter writing campaign to the russian government to say like why this is wrong and everything and i have to feel for that like i think that people should be allowed to think and believe how they want as long as they're not hurting other people um and i guess like it i don't know there's a whole debate in it on the community i don't know it's yeah people see it both sides i can see good and bad but ultimately like i wouldn't want my parents to be thrown in jail for the thoughts that they have in their head like that's really scary to me right right yeah here in america we're just like people can pretty much say anything and you're not persecuted for it um well thank you so much for coming on and being so brave is there anything else you wanted to add to anything to anybody um no i think that i i'm really happy that i was able to reach out and able to connect with you and i really appreciate you for trying to spread more awareness on this because it's like there's a lot of stuff going on in the world all the time and it's impossible to know what things you should be upset about and you know right like we just live in a constant flood of that information all the time so i think it's really cool that like there's somebody who's not necessarily like in the extra home business community trying to bring awareness to it because the more voices and the more attention that can be brought to the subject the more people will leave and will be saved and i think like younger people are coming out more because they have access to the internet they're asking the same questions that i was asking they're having the same experiences but it's like the older generation like people like my parents that have been indoctrinated for so long that need to hear it that need to know the truth um and i guess okay you have a win-win scenario when you're questioning your faith either you're right and you get to live your life comforted by the fact that you are right or you find out that you're wrong and you can move on and find out what is really right for you it's a win-win either way so why are you being told not to question that's a very good point kai thank you so much for coming on and sharing what you did i think you're so brave and for my audience like i gave her the chance to be anonymous and even now like if you email me after this interview and you're like okay i want to be anonymous like i would happily do that because i know how hard it is to come out like that and i know uh just how devastating it can be to someone or to people who know them um i think you're you're really brave to to have gone through what you went through and now living your life for you and doing things for you and that's really inspiring to see so thank you so much of course thank you so much josie absolutely i appreciate it you're amazing um where can people find you yeah so i have a youtube channel um which is just my name kai um which i guess i can give you the link and i'm also like just on instagram and i can give you my app too it's at my instagram my instagram is jesus x craves with an underscore jesus ex craves like craves like i'm craving chocolate perfect okay thank you so much you

Channel: NOT THE GOOD GIRL

Views: 119,985

Keywords: jehovah's witnesses, leaving religion, michelle rodriguez, michael jackson, luke evans, the watchtower

Id: WmjMtFLqp8M

Length: 82min 22sec (4942 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 16 2021