EWTN Live - Sense of the Sacred - Fr. Mitch Pacwa, SJ with Fr. Scott Haynes, SJC - 02-23-2011

their mission is to help Catholics rediscover a profound sense of the sacred through solemn liturgies and devotions along with sacred art and music tonight we'll talk with the canons regular of Saint John Kansas so please stay with us thank you and welcome uh father Mitch Pacwa welcome to EWTN live our chance to bring you guests from all over the world and before we get to our guest as twenty minutes and a couple things first today is the feast of Saint Polycarp he was a bishop who was a disciple of st. John the Evangelist and he was born around 69 AD lived to 155 AD and you know in that time he became a bishop at Smyrna in Asia Minor he's was then eventually condemned to be martyred by being burned to death but he he wouldn't burn you guess he wasn't all that combustible so they had establish in the Eastern Catholic churches the eastern and oriental Orthodox churches Anglicans Lutheran's because he's one of those very important links between the early church especially the evangelist st. John and the later church especially with through his disciple Oh who was st. Irenaeus now also I want to mention something else mr. dr. Bernard Nathanson just died this week he's an interesting character he killed 75 thousand children in abortions he lied through his teeth in order to promote abortion and he helped found nay Roldan the National Abortion Rights Association and he lied to help found that and just did all these things that were amazing for that side of the issue however once he saw an ultrasound of an abortion in which the child was resisting the knife that cut him apart the child was striking back I saw the video of the ultrasound the child was striking back and kicking with his feet in the the the movie was called the silent scream and that turned him around and God's grace acted on him to expose the lies you told he was very much committed to life and not only stopped doing abortion but worked for the pro-life movement and eventually became a Catholic and and died a Catholic so God rest his soul and we pray that not only Berta Nathanson but every other person who does abortions would be able to have the grace of God touch their lives the way it touched his and bring them around to true and deep conversion now tonight we have a couple of guests and they've been working to implement the wishes of the Holy Father benedict xvi regarding the Tridentine mass through learning the liturgy and producing annex and instructional videos on the Latin Mass which helps other priests and altar servers and bishops learn as well please welcome father Scott Haynes of the canons regular st. John Kansas as well as our own father Joseph Mary Wolfe welcome to both of you I guess this is sort of the teacher bringing one of his students is that right something like that anything to get out of snowy Chicago that's what I hear oh that's too bad I'm sorry to hear that but you're welcome down here in the sunny south where it's a little bit warmer it looks a lot warmer already we're in full time spring already let's start off with this why did the Holy Father ask for a more general acceptance of the mass being in Latin according to the old right well this is very advantageous that yesterday's feast of the chair of st. Peter they were having their show just after this because as on that feast the entire focus is on the unity of our faith around Peter so with this document some more in Pontifical amore this Motu Proprio of the Holy Father that's what's at moat appropriate means by his own wishes or by his own okay incentive okay that he put this forth he didn't rely on a council or ascended to to implement this but he it was his own motion of his own will to help bring about a unity in the faith especially for those Catholics who perhaps we are very very attracted to the old Latin Mass okay and so therefore many of those Catholics for many years after the changes that came about after vatican ii in the liturgy well were sometimes marginalized or left out and so yeah there was a much opportunity to enjoy the mass in Latin in most places the use of Latin entirely was discarded and many of the traditions and customs were were put aside and so with this document makes possible is it it says first of all the Latin Mass was never a brigade it was never made unlawful and that was often said yes it was sometimes and even very high levels in the church and so that had to be resolved and he did resolve that in this document and made it possible for every Roman Catholic priest to say this Mass and so with that document which is about unity it's about unity around their chair of Peter a unity of faith and doctrine but also which recognizes our freedom as Catholics who worship according to a multiplicity of liturgical rites so those think of all the thousands of Saints who attended the traditional Latin I think of a John Vianney or Saint John Bosco who celebrated this mass so many priests fill not in fact the great majority of saints of the Roman Rite celebrated this mess yes the Holy Father has referred to this as the extraordinary form he also sometimes recalls refers to this as the Gregorian Mass because it was st. Gregory the Great several centuries ago who kind of put the mass that we call the traditional Latin Mass with extraordinary form sometimes we go out to Troodon teen massacres was the Council of Trent who codified the Missal so that each diocese would use it exactly the same way but it was Gregory who really he spoke with st. Gregory the Great who really gave us the mass and the former that we know it okay now what is it exactly that you canons of st. John Kansas your name first are you named after the parish church where you're centered st. John can't just Church in the north side of Chicago right that's right all right as a matter of fact that I like that church that's where my daddy was baptized but but besides the Familia what is it that you can as a st. John can't just are doing no with promoting this well father Frank Phillips who was going to be here tonight he was our he's our superior or founder came down with the flu and it's made its way through the house all the priests and brothers just about have had it but he founded the community 1998 with the support of a new Cardinal at that time for instance Cardinal George he's still Archbishop - with the purpose of restoration of the sacred that's our motto to celebrate both forms of the liturgy the new and the old like you know in st. Matthew's Gospel how the the wise man takes out from the Treasury both things new and old for the good of the faithful so the these things have been given to the church for the good of the faithful and we find him in both forms of the Roman Rite a beauty or richness which the holy father says in the motive proprio some are particular both masses the new and the old should be celebrated with equal honor with new honor and with the beauty and reverence as a matter of fact that st. John's you have both forms each day we have the ordinary form the mass that most people know the post Vatican to man's and also the extraordinary form actually which the Holy Father he says actually is the mass of Vatican 2 because that is the mass that was celebrated at bacchanal that was the last form of the Trident II missile right you know that it's it was the mass used at Vatican Council the the later version of the mass that we used in the vernacular came after the council was over I was in high school and all that happens so I recall it quite well you know it was a real change and one of the things that I remember is that with the changes to English there was a certain triumphalism that said the English is here get the Latin out and you're saying not so fast it's time to bring it back and father Joseph the likes of you learning this in order to help bring it back here tell us about your experience of going up to Chicago to learn this well father Miguel and I drove up I 65 to Chicago and stayed with the canons for three weeks and during that time we had liturgical bootcamp with father Scot who he was so the first week we learned the low mass and then the second week we learned the Michigan Tata or some mass and then finally we learned the solemn high mass so it's been a privilege as some of our viewers would have seen us offer that mass up at the shrine and Most Blessed Sacrament right right so do you find that the people up in Hanceville are responding to this liturgy I think it's a beautiful addition and just for myself to be able to like we talked about st. John Bosco celebrated this Mass Saint John Vianney st. Joseph's Cupertino and to have that connection with the past when we think about the Holy Father Pope Benedict is really showing us the continuity of the church the unity of the church through all time as he's going through the different ages he's in the Middle Ages now and just to have that connection with our past but also that the spirit is doing something new and to have both forms I think is very rich it's been a fact I've got a quote from pope benedict xvi we said and I quote the most sure guarantee at the missile of Paul the sixth can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists and is being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives this will bring out the spiritual richness and theological depth of this missile now one of the things about celebrating the new form of the mass with great solemnity is that there's also an opportunity to learn some of the solemn qualities from the Tritton teen mass because that's one of the things about the Trinity mass you there's just no room for being trivial when you come to celebrate in the mass this is a mass that really calls for a great deal of solemnity yes and most of us aren't good enough at Latin to improvise I'll stick with the words that are the missile and I think that's with the coming new English missile that will be a problem that will be perhaps corrected as well but the the use of the lats and it's a great treasure and beauty and it's attracting many many young people back to the church back to the faith at our high mass each Sunday the parish it's amazing to me how many young people I see coming into Church 20s and 30s maybe with nose rings ear rings and other kind of rings you wouldn't expect to see coming to a Latin high mass yeah I don't act the crowd yes there you see everything in Chicago and a downtown parish and it's interesting who gets attracted to this I was telling father earlier today it appears one of the things that we've had for so many years is a very fine class for Latin and the peers to teach Latin Donnelly's your children but adults at different levels and that attracts students from all over the city to DePaul Loyola and and from other places and then they that's the draw for them into the church and then we have confessions all through the day during Mass before I've asked for hours starting seven two in the morning to 2:00 in the afternoon and that becomes a chance for them to be spiritually revived along with the mass so if they go hand-in-hand that that sense of the sacred that they encounter at the altar through the Holy Eucharist and through the solemn ceremonies through the Gregorian chant and all of the sacred polyphony the sacred choral music all of this inspires him along with the art of the and the beauty of the church they feel inside themselves a need to restore the sacred within themselves and the sacrament of confession is just for that so there's even a link between this form of the liturgy and increased confession absolutely we hear hundreds and hundreds of confessions on Sunday we have six confessors hearing that entire time from 7:00 in the morning 2:00 in the afternoon and we're busy and it's like every every weeks Holy Week security confessions and thanks be to God for that and we have many other fine parishes in Chicago that hear many confessions so we're very lucky in that regard right but it's fascinating that there's an interest by young people you know you would figure that the very old who remember the mass and Latins such as I do we might be the ones who would be at most attracted to it but it's not necessarily the case yet when the first document came out at night 84 from John Paul there was a at first thought that maybe this should only be permitted to those who had known the mass before the council but that was quickly cleared up by the Holy Father to not try and Paul that no this mass can be attended by anyone okay now father Joseph you know you had to learn this because you didn't grow up even knowing that the old form all that much when you were a little boy you know a little bit but not so much and the learning curve for you what was that like given that we already do some Latin here at EWTN that was helpful to have some Latin are ready to know the pronunciations but it was still something you worked on a lot especially the readings because you weren't familiar with a lot of those words when I was training to be an altar boy in the second grade it was a transition time so we were still doing the prayers at the foot of the altar but it was in English so I really never knew the extraordinary form of the mass growing up but it was there are many more rubrics of course and one of the first places where I looked to learn that was on a st. John conscious website where they have some training videos there so I could get a sort of a sense of the flow of the mass of the rubrics right now this is one of the other things that you do you you're presenting and helping to teach a very old form of the mass going back as you mentioned to Pope Gregory the Great now one of the things you're doing is using very modern techniques to train people in by using DVDs tell us about some of the DVD work that you're doing well we begin by making a low-mass video the low mass is the mass without music it's very very simple priests altar boy and so we began with that and we learned as we went making it we didn't have you WTM to make the video for us and it turned out pretty good and we have distributed over a thousand of those to priests and seminarians we learned them to make a high-mass video that turned out very well on that we've had over 5000 of those now distributed now we're making DVDs and how do the other sacraments which is something else that would teach the priests at the workshops how to do a baptism you mentioned you some clips from that baptism video you know what you show that some of you'll write for the baptism and you do all that in Latin right it's done in Latin some parts are said in English the the do you renounce Satan and all his Pomp's and work so obviously the parts to the this baptismal the godparents are done in the vernacular in English but most of the riders are in Latin and the video shows not only how to do it but it also gives the catechesis to explain what are all the meanings of the prayers and ceremonies okay okay so so a priest can learn you know how to do the whole ritual of the baptism or the other sacraments as a matter of fact we got a video of you baptizing a baby at the very same baptismal font my dad was baptized that's right a long time ago so do people ask you to do the sacraments in the traditional right yes they for baptism asks for extreme unction or anointing of the sick as we call it more commonly today they ask for confession in the old right they asked for marriages as for funerals all of these things we've been able to do at st. John's for four million years now and it because of the motor proprio now each priest is able to do this in the parish so thanks be to God there our Holy Father has made this widely available for all the faithful who request this now one we've been talking about training father Joseph and other priests like him Oh what about the laity do they need any training yes we've had a number of workshops retreats for laypeople over these past three years and some more imporant if you come the Holy Father asked for a report which we put together and in that report we've had over 5,000 laypeople attend these workshops and retreats we've taught them how to sing the chant how to be as a Christian not a survey at the altar and we've explained to them the meaning and the ceremonies of the mass which are very mysterious sometimes also we've explained to help them with the Latin pronunciation just how to say their prayers and how to how to sing the responses at a high mass very simple things very basic things so that they can attend the mass and enjoy it and get greater participation that was one of the things that Vatican 2 did want to have and the liturgical movement before Vatican Council wanted it to be more participation by the laity but by that they meant in Latin and I remember working at a parish years ago and the we were teaching the children had a signal the Mesa de angelis a very simple mass and the Credo and Latta and the children were able to pick it up so quickly and it was because of the kids that we were able to introduce that into the parish and the same thing with the extraordinary form we were able to introduce this and to appears in the Joliet diocese at the invitation of the bishop and it didn't take very long for the people to be able to learn how to responses and sing their parts at the high mass and they were really enjoy doing it well we learned back in in the 50s when I was a boy we had missiles and it would have the English on one side the Latin on the other side and we would go through the the Latin you know with with the priest follow along and that was that was feasible absolutely I think I got my missile when I was in fourth grade so you saw it through the time I was in high school when things began to change right now what are some of the kinds of questions the lady asked most typically one very frequent one is how come at the elevation of the host does the altar boy reach down and pick up the priest chasuble and lift it up why do they do that well there's several reasons if you go down to the Art Museum in Chicago they have a beautiful jazz ball from the 11th century and there's a corpus of made of ivory on the back of it it's probably about 75 pounds kind of heavy these are thell evasion the priest there was a practical application but we can also see in this sort of a spiritual significance if you remember in the Gospel the woman with the hemorrhage yes is unclean apart from everyone and Christ has just performed a miracle he's on the way to perform another miracle he's passing by she sees and she believes he's the son of God she has faith and she crawls through the ground and she reaches out and the scripture says she touches the the tassels on the hem of his garment and he says who touched me and then the Apostles what do you mean who touched you everybody's judging the courts they don't understand he said power went out of me and he reads and sees her and he says your faith has healed you well she had faith that this man who looks like a man but you and I was actually God the Son of God and she touched the tassel this environment well it's the same thing at the mass we have faith that what we see looks like mere bread and wine isn't its the true presence we believe and the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist and so as the altar boy reaches down to touch that symbolic of our as all of us as faithful Catholics that we have belief in the true presence yeah okay so the altar boy is also giving us some of that what are some of the other questions people ask well how come we say the the kirie a the lord have mercy nine times instead of six times why not you know in the new manse we say lord have mercy lord have mercy Christ it's a response well we could say what we think of we can think of about sin that we're making reparation for before God in that in that litany of the Cure EA's there's nine types of sin there's original sin mortal sin venial sin since a thought word indeed sins of malice weakness and ignorance so as we're thinking about that is where we're saying the carrier we're singing the Cure a we can think about you know how we participate in all those times of sin and how much we need to call on God for mercy so there's so many things we can think about at the song to st. Hildegard says she sees she saw it in one of her visions how the altar was raised up as the priests began to say this on to since we can imagine some of these different things that the Mystics have revealed to us about the mystery of mystical theology of the mass questions how about over at this shrine when we don't do the extraordinary form much on television mass do we we've had a number of them actually in fact the canons came down with Bishop Perry from Chicago we had our first Pontifical high mass there at the shrine that was July about a year and a half ago it was and we we've had the institute of Christ the King the fraternity of st. Peter and then Father Miguel myself and father Dominick offered a solemn high mass as well and occasionally we have the miss a cantata or son Mass do people ask many questions up at the shrine about you know why you do things well they're I think secondly has the education you've gotten from father helped you with that I think a lot of the people who attend are attracted to that mass and so many of those who do come they will come even long distances to attend that mass but I think the sisters to appreciate having that enrichment to their own liturgical life to have that experience of the extraordinary form of the mass you know and one of the things that it's true both at Hanceville as well as our chapel here is that the for the the the regular form the normal form of mass the the new Novus Ordo can be celebrated with great reverence and and it is but it's something that's I think when augment their sense of reverence by having the mass of the the old right is available as well yes in the mote appropriate so more important if acum the only father speaks of a mutual enrichment and perhaps one way one aspect of this is that the extraordinary form which has had centuries to sort of work out how its manner of celebration so there are lots of rubrics laws for the priest telling him how to do everything so sounding very a consistent manner by a wide number of priests that this helps regulate the beauty of the mass so that it's maintained sometimes that's difficult to do in the ordinary form because there aren't as many rubrics and so there is room for improvisation and sometimes we might do things that aren't as useful as the we might hope to be the novus ordo would still go through a process of continuous reform such as did happen with the the old ritual the old ritual also took a long time before got its final form and this is going on with the Novus Ordo as well it takes time for these liturgical forms to flesh themselves out and so I think at this point in the history of the church from what I couldn't understand and my understanding of the mode of appropriate that the Holy Father is wanting us to be rooted and grounded in the liturgical tradition so that we can understand how to express the new Mass more faithfully and in a way which if you read the general instruction on the Roman Missal it keeps insisting that there's an organic development or natural connection between what has come and what has developed from that it does not want to see a rupture or write a rupture between the two which some people insist upon and so the church says no there is a connection here just as there is between all of the liturgical rites because it's the same sac when it's the same Grace's it's the same Christ who is the celebrant of the mass we're we're the altar Kristy's but the graces of the mass are the same so therefore the manner of celebration varies matter fact that these between another quotation from Pope Benedict the 16th on the missile where he set it on I quote there is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal the history of the liturgy there is growth and progress but no rupture and that's when Pope Benedict the 16th well if we need to take a break we're going to come back in a couple of minutes so please stay with us and if you have some questions that you'd like to ask the father's please call in and we'll try to take your questions too thank you and welcome back we want to get to your questions as soon as possible but before we go to our questions I want to remind you that Mother Angelica always wanted to reach out in every way possible to share the faith her vision for evangelization is now at a new chapter with the addition of the National Catholic Register to the EWTN family the National Catholic Register is the nation's leading Catholic newspaper and we'd like to invite you to subscribe there's no better way to stay informed about what's going on in the church and in the world the Vatican arts entertainment education commentary opinion national and global news you can find it all in the National Catholic Register so if you're interested just go to ewtn.com and click on the National Catholic Register banner to find out how you can subscribe also we've got a nice group of folks here from different parts of the country and they've come to enjoy the beginnings of spring already they've seen daffodils out the tulip tree next to my house is in full blossom and all kinds of good stuff going on for a spring time so if you're a little tired of winter come on down we'd love to have you here you can call our pilgrimage department at two zero five two seven one two nine six six that's two zero five two seven one two nine six six or go to our website WWE wtae.com you ready for some questions let's have it caller on the line named Adam hello Adam hello father hi how are you I'm Oh Father I just want to say thank you for all that you do and we pray for you and everyone today TT Latin we need it we appreciate your prayers very much okay my question is I've heard of the upcoming instruction on the sim or implanted eekum and that many has expressed concern that it might in some way offer a hindrance to the Holy Fathers Motu Proprio and in some ways offer impediments to the traditional Latin Mass could father tell us a little bit about what the instruction is and if any of those concerns are founded all right tell us about this new instruction that's coming up when was it promulgated well it is it hasn't been it's sitting on the Holy Fathers desk oh so I haven't sat there so I can't really comment in any kind of intelligent way we can there's a lot of conjecture going on on blogs net right now about this and there's an old saying father those who know very little speak much yeah those who know much speak little so we probably shouldn't say too much about it until it comes out but we know whatever happens I don't think the Holy Father is going to who was so courageous and so brilliant in giving us this motor proprio well three years later come around and nullify it that wouldn't seem logical and I think what we'll see from our Holy Father will be some clarifications there have been many questions submitted to ecclesia Day which is the office in Rome responsible for sort of governance over the appropriate and around the world there many questions and clarifications a lot of which have already been answered one of which last year in the mode appropriate makes a reference to the readings which could could be done in the vernacular so the question was well does that mean that we don't read the readings and in the traditional Latin Mass in the Latin anymore we just do them in English and the it was clarified they must be done in Latin must be done in Latin but they may also be repeated in English which is what we've always done in this country so before the priest would give his sermon he would also said well the you know the Epistle in gospel I now give you an English and he would read them it ain't right that's exactly how I grew up right the pistol and the gospel were done in Latin and then the priest would get up to the pulpit read the Epistle in English everybody would stand again and they'd read the gospel in English then he would preach right and in Rome it's not unusual to hear the gospel song out of people oh gee maybe an in Greek and and in Latin there might be also an Italian even so this is an unusual thing in the church and we also remember that the Holy See's and communications with the Society of st. Pius the tenth right now working to integrate them into the church and welcome welcome and find a place for them in in the community of the church that we pray for that in fact exactly so our Holy Father has reached out to Anglicans he's reaching out to Catholics and attached to the traditional Mass I don't think he's going to do anything that's going to rupture unity so there may be some clarifications there may be some slight modifications but I don't expect anything wild right and you know there were some of the kinds of questions there number of questions that have gone to Rome in terms of how to do the liturgy one of them being you know can you have you extraordinary Eucharistic ministers you know I'm sure that they'll come down with some answers on those things too perhaps in this new instruction right and remember the Holy Father is is saying as noted in the Motu Proprio how Catholics who many Catholics who are attached towards the traditional Latin Mass have felt sometimes disaffected and uncomfortable with some of the liturgical innovations that have happened in the past years and so this provides for them a fixed liturgical form which doesn't include those things so I think that the the coming instruction will be in coherence with that I'm sure I'm sure no question from our studio did sir were you from California great and what's your question my question is what language is was the mass provided in during the early church period very good question of course Aramaic father and of course the the Roman litters the arisen was offered in Greek and I'd it switched to Latin a few centuries in Coptic the Coptic right ethiop ik yes we will find find a variety of languages old Church Slavonic Armenian exactly there's a wife act the first country to become Christian as a nation was Armenia and so the liturgy and I mean it was very very early before Latin advance but yeah different dialects of Aramaic were used both the Syriac dialect and the Chaldean dialect so so there were a number of languages that the mass was in and in the traditional Latin Mass we we still hear those in little bits we hear the Hebrew acclamations you know amen we'll hear the Hallelujah which is really hallelujah and we hear of course the Greek the curiae and other other little pieces here in different points of the liturgical year but primarily it's an acid right right I have another question from our studio sir were you from Liberty Missouri good to have you here and what's your question when pre-vatican - when I was in grade school there was a celebration called a solemn high mass and I really haven't seen that in the English mass could you kind of talk about or compare and contrast that in the what we call the extraordinary form or the Gregorian mass we have fixed forms have low mass we have a Mesa cantata which is a son mass which is one priest with several altar boys usually offered using with incense but then there's a the priest the court of the Knights is mass the priest gets to offer it's called a solemn high mass there's a priest a deacon and then a subdeacon and then several altar boys and a choir and this is the most solemn form of the mass that the priest celebrates there's also a Pontifical Mass which we've seen on EWTN which you can get in there on their web store of Bishop Harry doing that a year and a half ago that's but in the ordinary form there is a greater flexibility and fluidity to how the mass is offered so sometimes we see mass offered with the deacon we see deacon bill on the assisting at the altar but the idea of the solemn high mass or the music and Tata is there's many of the two variations to pin it down quite like that in the ordinary form okay and usually the deacon and subdeacon would actually be priests it could be deacons yes well today we have many deacons and parishes and they often learn how to celebrate to offer that ministry as in the extraordinary form the subdeacon could be even a seminarian who has received the office of Lecter for example okay oklet's a day permits that that's a possibility okay also religious and valves religious brother in veils could also serve as a subdeacon now there are some groups like these Society of st. Peter who actually do their ordinations according to the shouldn't teen right is that correct I use the 1962 Pontifical II that's the book of the bishop users for des nations of the different different rights there are traditionally seven steps to the priesthood you can if you ever go to Mundelein seminary in Chicago you'll see them you know carved into the steps you know Porter like you are the oldest acolytes and and subdeacon Deacon priest and goes right up the steps so the priest stands on the priest step the Deacon stands on the deacon step and the sub you can stance on the sub you can step third three steps lower as we see the grades you know of Holy Orders as you go up the up through up two steps that have underlined it's an interesting how they did that in the sanctuary right and the bishop knocks them all around we have another question from studio sir were you from that's from Ontario kind of the father good to have you here what's your question well since the comment of Vatican 2 which is a while ago we have seen changes in the positions of the altar in the sanctuary and also at the tabernacle so with the coming changes and new rubrics will it affect the architecture and some of the turrets is where this is taking place good question excellent question many times we're asked to come to pierces and maybe let's see mother we're gonna have our hundred and twenty-fifth anniversary could you come celebrate a solemn high mass at our parish ok and we go visit you know to prepare and maybe the altar is a free-standing altar in the center of the church well how would you do that how would you celebrate the extraordinary form you can it can be a little bit you have to be creative and maybe you have to bring additional things to be able to set up the altar cards and things on the altar the candlesticks and maybe the relics on the altar but it's possible to set things up sometimes it can be a little difficult but most churches you can you can find a way to make it work we said we begin offering mass a couple years ago it appears to help them introduce this of the parish and since then they have a priest now to do it regularly they had a high altar but it had been modified it was still there but basically it became a beautiful backdrop for the tabernacle and the altar were down was a free-standing altar and we had to bring in to be able to celebrate Mass facing the tabernacle which is referred to as odd orient him towards the east then because that was the direction that the master the churches were oriented towards so that it was met fact we even used the word oriented yes they were they were toward the East right and we because while we read in Matthew's Gospel Christ will come again at the Last Judgement from the east and so the early Christians wanted to face the east as they prayed it's interesting you know if you look at st. Peter's the altar is at the West End of st. Peter's Basilica and interesting is kind of surprising if I tell you saying agustin and end of his homilies and we'd all say also say conversely I do man I'm turned towards the Lord and the faith will actually return towards the East the priest facing as the Holy Father does when he celebrates mass at st. Peter's he's facing east right and so would in the ancient days the faithful so altar was behind them I know though I know that that's that's the case but because the idea was that you would be facing toward the east even if the church was oriented toward the west correct yeah so and that that's one of the reasons why it's a mistake to say that the Trinity mass is the mass with the priest back to the people it's rather a mass with the priest front to the east right because he's he like all the people one of the people is with them leading them towards Christ looking towards Christ's return so it's actually it's focused on the return of Christ the advent of Christ who will come again at the last day and we look at that as as Catholics not in fear and trembling but with great joy if we are living our life of faith just a the gaze grace look up buddy you're gonna fry another call we have Russ on the line hello Russ a little bear father's all right where are you from I'm from Nome 10 Connecticut good to have you on the line there what's your question my question is in reference towards the canons regulars are the canons regulars reverting back pre-vatican two and a second question are the breviary is going to be changing in the near future back to Latin or English okay let's do the briefie first well we have in the Motu Proprio not only access to the missile of 1962 but also the brie and the Roman ritual so what's in the Roman ritual well the Rite of baptism the Rite of anointing of the sick extreme plus blessings and in the breviary well that's of course the book the priests use is to say is his office divine office and of course this can be done also in the parish with the people Sunday Vespers things like that and so priests are now free to use either the post Vatican 2 bravery I think it was 1974 edition and which is usually said in the vernacular but can also be done in Latin and then the priests are also free to say the 1962 breviary which is the last edition of the traditional bravery which was issued by John the 23rd but for the most part most seminarians are you know get the the new Reaver unique that's right but there are some priests who were beginning to learn that and we have a little book in our webstore to teach priests how to do that if they're interested and we have videos of how to do that as we have Vespers videos on sanctum ISA website as well to show them how to celebrate this in the parish if they wish to and actually there's a number of celebrations of the Divine Office in the old right popping up here and there I see them on the internet from time to time very solemn desperate services and complement night prayer which is happening so it's good to see those happening as well there's a real fruitfulness in the liturgy today what about the first question the canons regular going to be pre Vatican - well I can't turn the clock back it's the clock keeps moving it's it's 2011 already and so what happens is in the candidates regular we were founded to do both ordinary and extraordinary form and there aren't I don't know if there are other communities that were founded to do that I haven't encountered that most communities do one or the other some communities are now doing both but they weren't necessarily founded to do that we were and it was a 98 that our founder father Phillips had the really the vision to do that one time he met Cardinal Ratzinger in the square st. Peter's the happens running at each other and he was aware of our community then already and he was said thank God now community that does both forms and so he was very happy to see that that both could live in a community live at a parish in peace and so what happens is a lot of our parishioners they might be attracted to one form or the other and when they join the parish and then they get introduced to the other form and then they become at peace with both right and that's I think the vision of this Motu Proprio that people have it may be necessarily thought about yet they're they're aware that they have a right you know priests have a right to say this Mass at the faith level right to ask for it but they haven't yet you've seen where this is going to develop and since we were kind of guinea pigs at st. John can't just because we've been able to do this for so many years now I was actually under contro Cardinal Bernardin that we were able to begin to celebrate all these right surgical rights at the piers and that became the revival of our parish well in fact I remember I used to go down to your parish to celebrate the novus ordo in Latin yes you know that was one of the options as well that you right so to answer the question are we going back to pre Vatican - well we do a lot of things which a lot of customs and that and our community and the parish which are from before the Vatican Council and we preserve those that we also are celebrating in the parish the new liturgy so we have both available to the prisoners we have another caller Carolyn is on the line hello Carolyn Carolyn you there M oh good where are you from I'm from Fredericksburg Texas oh I love Fredericksburg that's one of my favorite places we love you Oh Thank You Carolyn what's your question tonight my question is how can we have the Latin Mass celebrated at our parish on a regular basis there you go well in the mode appropriate it states that you can ask your pastor for this now there's a principle in the motive proprio a principle that's actually part of vatican ii and also of the new code of canon law that came out in 1983 and that is the principle of subsidiarity it's a big word what does it mean well it means things are handled at the lowest level possible right which makes a lot of snows don't write the Vatican right right you know something wrong does in the Paris if somebody puts a missile it's on the left side to the right side don't write the Pope just let the bastard now so the idea in the mote appropriate I saw actually on EWTN in 2007 I was down training group of priests in Alexandria Louisiana and the diocese there the bishop asked us to come down and I was a long day I went back to the room turned on the TV said it was EWTN and there was a Secretary of State on Rome reports and he said some more implant if acum is a Vatican to document this is the Vatican Secretary of State that's correct and he said you know this is a very Vatican to kind of document I thought no that it's an interesting statement I really wouldn't have thought of that way he said the reason why is because it puts force this principle so that you know it's not no longer necessary to go to the bishop or to the Holy See to get permission to say this mass rather the permission is acknowledged and therefore it simply needs to be requested of the local pastor now sometimes the local pastor may not be prepared to do this because seminary training maybe has any experience with Latin maybe he has his three parishes and he's a hospital chaplain and the fire chaplain and and a host of other things and he hasn't got the time right to set aside to fulfill the request even though he may really want to then were to then go to the bishop and ask for his assistance and if the bishop cannot help is as then contact ecclesiae day the office in rome for this so if the idea as we start the lowest possible level and we only go to the higher level if we need to right so that's the best way to go about it i want to let some of our audience know hear about some of our resources that are available from ewtn religious catalogue there's the trinity mass resources there's an instructional video a theological roundtable discussion with Colin Donovan and many other resources so you can call the ewtn religious catalogue at 1 800 850 4 651 6 that's 1 884 631 6 or you can go to WWE WT n religious catalog com that's EWTN religious catalog comm and you can order these different resources and be able to use them yourselves to learn more about the not only for your parish but to learn more as individuals about this so it's a great materials and of course you have a website yes the first website that we have developed has become sort of a mega website we've had over 5 million visitors so if you are Santa Mesa org Santa Mesa org yes so you can find out more resources there to father's would you join me in giving a blessing to our audience no mighty God bless you and keep you and cause his face to shine upon you may he lead you in all of your ways by his peace we bless your name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit amen you know we can do this program we can have as father Joseph mentioned masses in the Tritton teen ride as well as the Novus Ordo and all the other things that we do here because this network is brought to you by you you make it possible so please remember to keep us in between your gas bill your electric bill in your cable bill and we'll be able to pay all of our bills god bless you and thank you very much you

Channel: EWTN

Views: 12,518

Rating: 4.7142859 out of 5

Keywords: EWTN, EWTN Live, Mitch Pacwa, Scott Haynes, SJC, Catholic

Id: BgWhKbQ7r88

Length: 56min 35sec (3395 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 24 2011