[MUSIC] >> Fr. Pacwa: WELCOME TO EWTN LIVE! THIS IS A PROGRAM WHERE WE GET TO BRING YOU GUESTS FROM ALL AROUND THE WORLD. I'M FATHER MITCH PACWA. IT IS SO WONDERFUL TO HAVE YOU WITH US. OUR GUEST TONIGHT IS A PRIEST, WHO COMES TO US FROM THE ORLU DIOCESE OF NIGERIA BY WAY OF CLEVELAND, OHIO, WHERE HE IS AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF COMMUNICATION AT JOHN CARROLL UNIVERSITY AND THE FOUNDER OF GRATIA VOBIS MINISTRIES. YOU MAY RECOGNIZE HIM FROM HIS TWO EWTN SERIES, WORD FOR A WOUNDED WORLD AND THE FAITH WITH FR. MAURICE. JOINING US NOW VIA SKYPE FROM CLEVELAND, OHIO, PLEASE WELCOME FR. MAURICE EMELU. . >> FATHER MAURICE, HOW ARE YOU? >> I AM WELL, HOW ARE YOU FATHER MITCH. I'M SO DELIGHTED TO BE WELCOMED BACK TO YOUR SHOW. I THINK THIS IS MY THIRD OR FOURTH, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. >> IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK. >> YOU KNOW WHAT THAT TELLS ME? >> Fr. Pacwa: I HAVE GOOD TASTE IN GUESTS? >> Guest: IT MEANS THAT, MOST AFTER ALL, I AM NOT THAT BORING. >> Fr. Pacwa: LIKE I SAID, GOOD TASTE IN GUESTS. THAT'S GOOD. SO, HOW ARE YOU ENJOYING TEACHING IN CLEVELAND IN COMMUNICATIONS? HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT? >> Guest: ACTUALLY, I AM LOVING IT. IT'S GIVING ME AN EXPERIENCE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF INTERACTION WITH MY STUDENTS IN THE VISUAL MEDIA. THE DIGITAL MEDIA SYSTEM, IT'S POLARIZING AND I'M POLARIZED WITH ALL OF THE UPS AND DOWNS. HOW CAN WE COMMUNICATE EFFECTIVELY? HOW CAN WE MENTOR THE LEADERS TOMORROW, USING THE TECHNOLOGY IN A WAY THAT'S ETHICAL, IN A WAY TO BUILD COMMUNITY, AND IN A WAY THAT CAN ACTUALLY SERVE THE NEED OF PEOPLE AND NOT JUST BE A MANIPULATIVE TOOL AGAINST THE PEOPLE. SO, THAT'S AN EXCITING THING FOR ME. I'M EXPLORING IT AND I'M ENJOYING IT AND I'M LOVING IT. >> Fr. Pacwa: ONE OF THE BIG ISSUES IN CONTEMPORARY AMERICAN CULTURE, I'VE NEVER BEEN TO NIGERIA. I DON'T KNOW HOW THINGS ARE OVER THERE, THOUGH I FEAR THAT WE BLEED OUT SOME OF OUR AMERICAN PROBLEMS TO THE REST OF THE WORLD THROUGH OUR MEDIA. BUT THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE HERE IS THE CULTURE IS STRONGLY ACCEPTING AND EVEN PROMOTING OF RELATIVISM THAT I HAVE MY TRUTH. YOU HAVE YOUR TRUTH. AND WHAT YOU CONSIDER RIGHT AND WHAT I CONSIDER RIGHT ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. WHEN PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A BASIS IN TRUTH, THEY CANNOT SHARE ETHICS AND IF YOU CANNOT DISCUSS THE TRUTH OF GOOD AND EVIL, RIGHT AND WRONG, JUSTICE AND INJUSTICE, THEN ALL YOU CAN DO IS PROPAGANDA. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS, BRINGING DOWN OUR MEDIA, THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OF HOW TO FIND TRUTH, DISCUSS IT, AND WORK THROUGH OUR DIFFERENCES. AND IN THAT KIND OF WORLD, MIX RIGHT. AND PROPAGANDA IN THE WORLD IS, THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE GOT. AND FEELS LIKE YOU ARE ADDRESSING IN THIS COURSE? >> YOU SEE, WHAT YOU SAID RIGHT NOW HAS SO MANY THINGS LAID OUT IN IT. ASK YOU A QUESTION OF TRUE OBJECTIVE, WHAT'S THE VALUE OF TRUTH? HOW DO WE DESCRIBE WHAT IS FAIR, WHAT IS TRUE, WHAT IS OBJECTIVE. THE QUESTION OF OBJECTIVITY MATTERS. AND THE QUESTION OF POLITICAL DEBATES AND ON AND ON. IT BRINGS BACK AGAIN TO THE QUESTION OF INFORMATION, THE RIGHT TO INFORMATION AND THE RIGHT TO THE TRUTH AS WELL AS THE RIGHT TO SEARCH FOR IT, AND HAVE ACCESS TO IT. AND SO MANY ISSUES ARE LAID OUT. AND I WOULD LIKE TO WALK BACK FROM IT. >> GO AHEAD. >> BACK FROM THE MENTAL CHRISTIAN. YOU SEE, I REMEMBER SOMETIME IN THE PAST, I WAS INVITED TO A CLASS TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE THEME OF THAT DISCUSSION WHICH WAS ON WHAT THEY CALLED CULTURAL RELATIVISM. AND IT WAS A TEXTBOOK FROM A WESTERN AUTHOR TRYING TO DESCRIBE THE THE KIND OF RELATIVISM FOUND IN AFRICA IS DESCRIBED AS CULTURAL RELATIVISM. AND THE DESCRIPTION OF CULTURAL RELATIVISM, THE TRUTH IS RELATIVE AND CORRESPOND IN THE CULTURE. AND I SAID, THAT TEXTBOOK IS NOT THE AFRICA I KNOW. AND THE PROFESSOR WAS, LIKE, REALLY. EXPAND ON THAT FOR US. AND I SAY, IN THE AFRICAN LORD, WHEN THEY SAY THE TONE DEPENDS ON THE CULTURE ON THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE CULTURE AND MAKE SURE THAT WHAT THEY EXPLAIN WHAT THEY REALLY MEAN IS LIKE THE ELEPHANT METAPHOR. THE ELEPHANT METAPHOR IS THE METAPHOR THAT SAYS, TELL US, WHAT IS THE ELEPHANT LIKE. AND SO, THESE PEOPLE HAVE BLINDED AND MAYBE THEY ARE COVERED, THEIR EYES ARE COVERED AND THEY ARE TO TOUCH THE ELEPHANT AND DESCRIBE WHAT THE ELEPHANT IS LIKE. ONE WHO IS ON THE LEG OF THE ELEPHANT, THEY SAY, WELL, IT IS STRONG, LONG, AND ANOTHER ONE, THEY TELL ME, THEY SAY, OH, IT'S A LITTLE FLOPPY. AND THEY SAY, IT IS VERY FIRM LIKE IT IS STILL. AND WHAT IS RELATIVE ABOUT THAT DESCRIPTION IS WHAT THEY ARE TOUCHING. BUT THE FACT THAT THAT ELEPHANT IS WITH ONE THAT NEGOTIATES. AND IT'S OBJECTIVE AND EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY NOT HAVE THE TRUE PERSPECTIVE OF THAT OBJECTIVE TRUTH, SO, TO DENY OBJECTIVITY SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU HAVE A BIAS THAT'S COMPREHENSIVE WOULD BE TO SHOOT OURSELVES IN THE FOOT. THAT WOULD DESTROY THE WHOLE OF REALITY. JUST THINK ABOUT IT FR. WADE MENEZES -- FATHER MITCH PACWA. ARE YOU FROM NIGERIA, BY THE WAY? >> Fr. Pacwa: NO, I AM NOT. >> Guest: WELL, ARE YOU BLACK, LIKE I AM? >> Fr. Pacwa: NO, I'M REALLY WHITE, I'M PALE. >> Guest: NOW, FATHER MITCH, ARE YOU IN ALABAMA RIGHT NOW. >> Fr. Pacwa: YES, I AM. >> Guest: NOW, ALL RIGHT. IT'S ALL RELATIVE TO WHO IS ASKING THE QUESTION, RIGHT? THINK YOU WOULD LOOK AT ME AND SAY WHO IS INSANE. AND THE WHOLE QUESTION OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT, THE WHOLE QUESTION OF THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KNOW IS AROUND THE CONCERN THAT PEOPLE HAD THE RIGHT TO THE TRUTH. THE TRUTH IS COMPLETELY RELATIVE. WHAT'S THE VALUE AND WHAT'S THE VALUE AFFIX AND WHAT'S THE PRINCIPLES OF THE LAW. AND IN THE MEDIA AND DIGITAL RECORDING, YOU REALIZE THAT. YOU CANNOT JUST DO ANYTHING, YOU THINK, THIS IS CRAZY, WHAT YOU THINK. I CHANGED THE WHOLE THING AND I JUST MAKE IT SOMETHING ELSE. THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS INGRAINED BY NATURE THAT HAVE AN OBJECTIVE THAT IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE REALITY, I CAN'T CHANGE YOU, FATHER MITCH. THERE'S A CERTAIN PERSPECTIVE TO THAT CONVERSATION. >> Fr. Pacwa: WELL, IT BRINGS OUT AN EXTREMELY IMPORTANT PART. YOU KNOW, WE CHERISH OUR FIRST AMENDMENT. IN THE WAY THAT IT'S EVEN STRUCTURED. THE FIRST RIGHT IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT IS THE RIGHT TO YOUR OWN RELIGION. THAT THE GOVERNMENT WILL NOT ESTABLISH A RELIGION NOR WILL IT PREVENT THE LIVING OUT OF ANY RELIGION. AND THE REASON THAT THAT COMES FIRST IS FOR WHAT YOU HAVE BROUGHT OUT. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO THE TRUTH. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT IS CORRECT. WE MAY NOT HAVE ALL OF THE TRUTH. WE MAY NOT KNOW EVERYTHING, JUST LIKE IN THE CASE OF THE ELEPHANT, NOT EVERYBODY HAS CONTACT WITH THE WHOLE HE WILL FANT. -- ELEPHANT. BUT YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT IS TRUE. THE RELIGIOUS COMMITMENT IS FIRST AND FOREMOST ABOUT THE TRUTH OF LIFE. AND THEN, COMES FREEDOM OF SPEECH, FREEDOM OFABLY, FREEDOM OF THE PRESS. IT'S IMPORTANT IMPORTANT TO SEE THE FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO RELIGION AND THEREFORE, KNOWING TRUTH AND ACCEPTING IT OPENS THE WAY FOR THE OTHER RIGHTS TO SPEECH IN THE PRESS. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS NOT TAKEN FOR GRANTED. I THINK IN THE RELATIVISM OF THIS CULTURE WHICH TRAGICALLY, THE TEXTBOOK IS TRYING TO IMPOSE ON AFRICA. IT WAS BAD ENOUGH THAT THE EUROPEANS OPPOSED THEIR EMPIRES ON AFRICA. NOW, THEY WANT TO IMPOSE THE LACK OF TRUTH? WHAT, ARE THEY NUTS? BUT I DIGRESS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE GOING ON IS A DENIAL OF THE RIGHT TO SPEECH. WE SEE IT BEING TAKEN AWAY. THERE'S A CANCEL CULTURE THAT COMES FROM THAT RELATIVISM. IRONICALLY, THEY BECOME ABSOLUTE IN WHAT THEY SAY AND DON'T LET FREEDOM OF THOUGHT EXIST. >> Guest: NOW, I SAY, I'M PASSIONATE, BUT I'M REALLY BEMUSE HAD TO SEE HOW HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF. WHEN THE HOLY FATHER, POPE BENEDICT XVI TALKED ABOUT THE DECAY OF THIS, RELATIVISM. AND I THINK IT WAS SOMEBODY ELSE, THOMAS SOWELL, HE'S ONE OF THE FAMOUS MARXIAN PHILOSOPHY. HE TALKED ABOUT, IN HIS CRITIQUE OF MARXISM, WE TALKED ABOUT THE FREEDOM FOR THE SOMETHING, EVENTUALLY BECAME THE -- >> Fr. Pacwa: YES. >> Guest: NOW, THE WHOLE IDEA IS, WE MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT TRUTH IS RELATIVE BUT WE END UP SAYING OUR DEFINITION OF TRUTH IS RELATIVE. IT'S THE ONLY THING THAT IS NOT RELATIVE. WHICH MEANS THAT OUR RELATIVITY OF TRUTH IS OBJECTIVELY ABSOLUTE. >> Fr. Pacwa: EXACTLY. >> Guest: ISN'T THAT A CONTRADICTION IN TERMS? AND THE PHILOSOPHY OF THAT MIND SET GOES TO THE ROOT OF THE ALTERNATIVE PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE I HAVE MADE THIS ABSOLUTE RELATIVITY DEFINITION OF TRUTH WHICH HAS NOT BEEN ABSOLUTE, ONLY BEEN RELATIVE. AND THIS RELATIVITY HAS TO BE SAMED AS ETERNAL, THEREFORE, ALTERNATIVE VIEWS SHOULD NOT BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION. THIS DESTROYS THE VERY FOUNDATION OF THE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. >> Fr. Pacwa: EXACTLY. >> Guest: WHY IS THE FOUNDATION OF EXPRESSION THE KEY TO THE FOUNDATION OF THE FATHERS. BECAUSE IF I USE SOCRATIC LANGUAGE, THE ONLY WAY WE CAN BRING THE BETTER PERSPECTIVE AND MAKE BETTER JUDGMENT IS TO INTERROGATE SOME STRUCTURES OF SOME LINES THAT WE MAY NOT EVEN AGREE WITH. >> Fr. Pacwa: RIGHT. >> Guest: BUT TO DESTROY THAT, THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR GENERATIONS. AND I THINK IF I SPEAK FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE MEDIA, THINK THAT SOCIAL MEDIA, THEY TEND TO HAVE THE USER INTERFACE THAT ENABLES THAT KIND OF BINARITY. AND IT'S PERSPECTIVES AND THEY ARE ROBBERS AND CHALLENGERS. NOW, THIS IS A CHALLENGING SITUATION FOR THE TIME IN WHICH WE LIVE. BUT IT'S NOT DISCOURAGING. BECAUSE HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF. AND MANY PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO WONDER IF I CAN SAY SOMETHING AND JUST END MY LIFE BECAUSE I SAID IT. THEN I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, WHAT MAKES ME TRULY HUMAN IF I CANNOT EXPRESS MYSELF AND HOW I FEEL. BECAUSE THE POWER TO SPEAK HOW I FEEL AND BE JUDGED FOR IT, GOOD OR BAD IS PART OF THE EXTENSION OF WHO I AM AS AN AUTONOMOUS BEING, A PERSONAL BEING OF RIGHTS, SOMEBODY THAT SHOULD NOT BE HELD OR IMPRISONED IN A BOX THAT CANNOT EXPRESS HIMSELF. SO, THAT'S REALLY A CONCERN. AND PERSONALLY, I WOULD CHOOSE TO SAY HOW I FEEL THAN TO BE COMPELLED NOT TO SAY HOW I FEEL. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND THIS IS BECOMING SO MUCH A DIFFICULTY THAT THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT PARTS OF OUR SOCIETY THAT REFUSE EVEN TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ON SURVEYS. THEY DON'T WANT TO ANSWER SURVEYS BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID THAT THE PEOPLE TAKING THE SURVEY WILL MISUSE THE INFORMATION. AND SO, THE FOLKS WHO JUST KEEP THEIR POLITICAL OPINIONS TO THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY CANNOT TRUST, THE PEOPLE AROUND THEM WILL NOT TRY TO CANCEL THEM, CANCEL THEIR OPINIONS. COME DOWN ON THEM. PEOPLE DON'T PUT STICKERS FOR THE POLITICAL VIEWS AND OTHER, SOMETIMES RELIGIOUS STICKERS. THEY JUST ARE AFRAID TO DO THAT BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHICH GROUP WILL DAMAGE THEM OR THEIR PROPERTY IN ORDER TO CANCEL THEIR POSITION. AND THIS IS WHEN WE SEE PEOPLE PROMOTING THIS RELATIVISM BUT THEY BECOME TOTALLY ABSOLUTE AND THEY USE THEIR OWN POWER TO MAKE SURE THAT NOBODY THINKS DIFFERENTLY THAN I DO. YOU BRING OUT THE IRONY PERFECTLY. >> AND ACTUALLY, THE MEDIA, I WOULD SAY THEY CALL IT A PILLAR OF SILENCE. EVEN THOUGH IT'S FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. THIS SILENCE IS, I THINK IT'S A POSITION, LIKE, PEOPLE ARE AFRAID BECAUSE THE CONSENSUS SEES IT THIS WAY. AND NOBODY WANTS TO BE DEMONIZED FOR BEING SEEN DIFFERENTLY AND THAT'S REALLY THE DEATH OF CRITICISM AND WE END UP WITH THE MOB IN THIS END OF SOCIETY. WE END UP WITH WHAT THE LORD DID NOT CREATE. GOD CREATED US IN FREEDOM. GOD CREATED US AS AUTONOMOUS PEOPLE OF DIGNITY. AND WE BECOME BETTER AT WHO WE ARE IF WE ARE ABLE TO EXPRESS OURSELVES, THINK FOR OURSELVES, MATURE FOR OURSELVES ALL FOR THE GLORY OF THE LORD AND FOR THE SERVICE OF ONE ANOTHER. IT HAS TO BE OUR CHOICE AND NOT COMPELLED BY US. I UNDERSTAND THAT SOME PEOPLE DO WELL. BUT YOU HAVE TOO MUCH USE, THAT WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL PEOPLE DON'T CALL OTHERS NAMES. DO YOU REGULATE HOW I TALK WHEN I AM IN MY HOME? >> Fr. Pacwa: I HAVE NO INTEREST IN REGULATING HOW YOU SPEAK IN YOUR HOME. NONE. >> Guest: SO, IF I DON'T HAVE THAT TRAINING FROM HOME, HOW DO YOU EXPECT ME TO HAVE IT OVERNIGHT, OUTSIDE. >> Guest: IN MY HOME, I HAVE WORDS THAT I DON'T EVEN EXPRESS HERE SO HOW DO YOU EXPECT ME TO EXPRESS OUTSIDE. SO, IT FALLS BACK TO THE FAMILY. WE DESTROY THAT ROOT OF REAL CULTURAL DISSENSION, HOW DO WE EXPECT THAT THE STATE IS GOING TO FIX IT FOR US. >> Fr. Pacwa: WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP -- I'M ASKING YOU A QUESTION THAT COMES FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, NOT GOOD EXPERIENCE BUT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. MY MOTHER AND MY DAD ESPECIALLY MY MOM BECAUSE WE WERE AROUND HER WHEN WE WERE SMALL. SHE MADE SURE THAT CERTAIN WORDS WERE NOT SAID BY US. WORDS THAT WERE RUDE AND IMPROPER. AND SHE USED TO PUNISH US. AND I LEARNED TO DISLIKE THE TASTE OF SOAP. AND SHE HAD NASTY SOAP, TO MAKE SURE. DID THAT EVER GO ON IN A HOME LIKE YOURS? MAYBE NOT WITH YOU, I'M SURE YOU WERE VERY GOOD, BUT MAYBE WITH SOME OF THE OTHER CHILDREN AROUND? >> Guest: FATHER MITCH DON'T MAKE ME A SAINT! CANONIZATION HAPPENS FROM THE VATICAN, NOT FROM HERE, NOT NOW. AND JUST LIKE PROBLEMS LIKE ALL THE OTHER KIDS, BUT I DID LEARN SOMETHING FROM MY FAMILY. REALITY, THAT VIRTUE, ESPECIALLY THE ACQUIRED SENSE, LOVED AND IN THE INFUSED SENSE, IT WAS FROM THE DOMESTIC CHURCH WHICH IS THE CHURCH OF THE HOME. DESTROY THAT STRUCTURE, SOMETHING HAS HAPPENED TO THE FOUNDATION OF HUMAN SOCIETY. AND THAT'S THE TRUTH AND IT'S OBJECTIVE BY THE WAY. >> YEAH, THE FUNDAMENTAL VALUE OF BIOLOGIC THAT WE CAN'T JUST DESTROY AND THINK THAT NATURE WILL NOT CRY. I WANT TO TELL YOU A STORY OF SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN ONE OF THE AFRICAN NOVELS. WHEN THE PROTAGONIST DID SOMETHING THAT WAS NATION RALLY OBJECTIONABLE, NATURE STARTED TO CRY, THE LAND STARTED TO SHAKE BECAUSE THE LAND HAS BEEN RUPTURED. SO DESTROY NATURE AND THE STRUCTURE OF THINGS IS NOT SO MUCH IN OUR BEST INTEREST. I UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT, BUT THERE ARE SOME THINGS FUNDAMENTAL AND THEOLOGICAL ABOUT THE SHAPE OF THE NATURE, CAN ALSO BE TIED DOWN TO THE BASIC INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE HUMAN SOCIETY AND ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE RELATED TO ONE ANOTHER AND WE CAN ADJUST IT MORE THAN AND BELIEVE THAT SOCIETY WOULD FUNCTION THE WAY WE ARE DECIDING. AND ANOTHER THING THAT I'VE SEEN, FROM MY EXPERIENCE FROM THE WESTERN WORLD, WITH MY TRAVELS, ENDING UP BECOMING DISCIPLES OF POST MODERNISM OR AS WE SAY, POST MODERNISM. WE'VE BECOME MORE OR LESS DEFINING REALITY. AND THAT'S A KIND OF CONCEPTION THAT IS ALL ABOUT THE EVENT, NOTHING EXCEPT FOR THE EVENT. AND EVENTS COME AND GO. SO, WE SHOULDN'T ATTACH ANY VALUE TO IT BECAUSE IT'S CONSTANTLY IN THE IRRIGATION AND OF EVOLVING. THAT'S LIFE. AND THAT'S SOCIETY. AND WE END UP WITH THAT KIND OF MIND SET. IF WE DO, WE'RE GOING TO END UP WITH THE COMMUNISTIC PROGRESSIVISM AND IT DESTROYS THE VERY VALUE THAT WE HOLD PRECIOUS. WE CAN SAY WE'RE PROUDLY AMERICANS BECAUSE WE HAVE A HISTORY, SOME OF IT HAS EVOLVED BUT WHILE SOME OF IT WILL REMAIN. WE CAN'T JUST DISCREDIT THAT COMPLETELY. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND HERE'S ONE OF THE THINGS. WE HAVE A CERTAIN MENTALITY BY WHICH PEOPLE WILL DISCREDIT LARGE PARTS OF AMERICAN HISTORY BECAUSE IT IS A HISTORY OF SINNERS. THERE ARE SINFUL COMPONENTS IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES AS IN EVERY FAMILY, SOCIETY, NATION, THIS IS -- CATHOLICS UNDERSTAND THE REALITY OF HUMAN HISTORY IS THAT IT'S A HISTORY OF SINNERS. BUT BECAUSE THERE IS SIN, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU DISCARD EVERYTHING. FOR INSTANCE, IN THIS COUNTRY, WE'RE DEALING WITH A REDEFINITION THAT THE ORIGINAL SIN OF THIS COUNTRY WAS SLAVERY. IT WAS A HORRENDOUS SIN. IT WAS A HORRENDOUS SIN, JUST AN EVIL. AND I COULD NOT IMAGINE WHAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE TO BE ENSLAVED. BUT THAT DOES NOT DENY THAT EVEN SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO OWN SLAVES HAD IDEAS THAT WERE GOOD. THEY DIDN'T LIVE CONSISTENTLY WITH THEIR IDEAS. THAT WOULD BE TRUE. BUT THAT'S ALSO A KEY PART OF HUMAN HISTORY. LOTS OF PEOPLE HAVE WONDERFUL IDEAS AND DON'T LIVE CONSISTENTLY WITH THEM. THEY HAVE TRUTH BUT THEY DON'T LIVE CONSISTENT WITH IT. THEY FOLLOW SOME OF THE SELFISHNESS. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE LEARN TO DISCERN OUT. >> Guest: YES, I HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING BECAUSE IT SOUNDED LIKE -- I WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT. WHAT YOU ARTICULATE THERE REFLECTS, I HEAR IT MORE THAN EVER WHEN I'M LISTENING TO SOME INTELLECTUAL TRADITIONS THAT TEND TO CELEBRATE AS DISCIPLES OF KARL MARX. YOU CAN SEE WHAT'S LOUDER IN THAT BECAUSE AT FACE VALUE, IT SEEMS TO PROJECT THE IMPRESSION THAT A DECADENT SOCIETY, A SOCIETY WHICH WOUNDS CAN NOT MAKE CLAIMS TO ETHICAL AND JUSTIFIABLE MORALITY. AND IT'S ALREADY PROTECTED BY SIN. AND IN MY TIME, MY TIME TO REACH SOME OF THESE HISTORICAL FIGURES AND I'M FASCINATE AND SHOCKED BY WHAT I SEE. WE TALK ABOUT THAT KIND OF PHILOSOPHY BUT THEY ALSO DON'T TALK ABOUT THE PERSON OR PERSONS OF THAT KIND OF PHILOSOPHY BECAUSE IF WE DISCONNECT THE PERSON FROM THE IDEOLOGY, THEN WE NEVER HAVE A TRUE PICTURE OF THE IDEOLOGY. SO, KARL MARX, FOR INSTANCE, WAS HE IN ANY WAY CLOSE TO WHAT HE CLAIMED IN HIS WHOLE PUSH FOR A JUST SOCIETY? HIS PERSONAL LIFE WAS A BUMBLE OF NONSENSE. NEVER WORKED AS SUCH AND THE EXPLOITATION OF PEOPLE INCLUDING THE ANGLES THAT CLAIMED FOR MOST OF THESE DEALS. AND NEVER SHOWED LOVE AS SUCH EXCEPT BY EXPLOITATION. IN FACT, ONE OF THE PATHS THAT I DISCOVER IS WHEN THE UNCLE OF THE WIFE DIED, ONLY THING THAT HE AUTHORED WAS THAT BAD, TERRIBLE MAN HAS DIED. GO BRING HIS PROPERTY BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE INHERITANCE NOW. THAT WAS THE ONLY SYMPATHY THAT HE SHOWED. AND ON AND ON, IT WAS JUST A TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE EXPLOITATION. SO, HIS WRITER WAS PROJECTING HIMSELF. AND THE ENTITLEMENT ENTITLED THAT HE LIVED ALL HIS LIFE. >> AND IT SHOWED UP FURTHERMORE IN THE WAY THAT HE ALLOWED HIS OWN CHILDREN TO BE SICK, HUNGRY, COLD. HE DIDN'T TAKE CARE OF HIS OWN CHILDREN. >> AND THE ALL. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND MEANWHILE, HE'S ALSO HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH ANOTHER LADY BESIDES HIS WIFE. AND IT WAS A SERIES OF INJUSTICES THROUGHOUT HIS WHOLE LIFE WHILE HE IS PROCLAIMING THIS PUBLIC CALL. >> Guest: EXACTLY. SO, THAT, YES, SOME KIND OF IDEOLOGY WOULD GLORIFY HIS PHILOSOPHY. AND YOU SEE THE PARADOX THERE. THAT'S WHY I USED THAT AS AN EXAMPLE. AN ISSUE THAT YOU RAISED, STUDYING THIS LITTLE BY LITTLE AND THEN YOU CAN'T CLAIM THE HISTORICAL ANALYSIS, BUT I READ THAT, THE FOUNDING BROTHERS BY JOSEPH [INAUDIBLE]. AND THERE WERE SO MANY OTHER WORKS ON THE AMERICAN HISTORY. I DON'T, IN ANY WAY, GLORIFY THAT, THE WHOLE STORY OF SLAVERY, NEITHER DO I GLORIFY AFRICA AS WELL FOR THEIR ROLE IN THE STORY. AND I DON'T. FOR THE TRANS-ATLANTIC TRADE AND EVERYTHING, I DON'T. BECAUSE THAT'S THE COMPLETE FUNDAMENTAL REPUDIATION OF THE HUMAN PERSON. BUT WHAT I SENSE, WHAT I REMEMBER, THAT IT WAS IN FACT, WELL, BENJAMIN FRANKLIN DIED WITH A LAST TESTAMENT OF THE ETHICAL IMPLICATIONS OF THE MORAL OBLIGATION IN AMERICA AS A YOUNG NATION, AS THEY HAD, TO END SLAVERY. THAT WAS HIS LAST TESTAMENT TO US BEFORE HE DIED. >> Fr. Pacwa: YES. >> Guest: AND I CAN READ THE WHOLE CONTROVERSY, AND SOME OF THE PARAMETERS OF IT, AND SOME OF THE SLAVES WHO ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THIS IS NOT RIGHT EVENTUALLY HISTORY WENT DOWN TO THE END. >> Fr. Pacwa: I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT WE NEED TO TAKE A LITTLE BREAK ABOUT NOW, IN THE MID PART OF THE PROGRAM. LET'S COME BACK TO THAT IN JUST A COUPLE OF MINUTES. LET YOU CONTINUE ON. BUT WE'LL TAKE A BREAK RIGHT NOW AND WE'LL BE BACK IN TWO MINUTES. PLEASE, STAY WITH US. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] >> NOW, WE'RE BACK. FATHER MAURICE, DID YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT ANY FURTHER? >> Guest: YES, TALKING ABOUT THE VULNERABILITY. I LIKE TO USE THAT LANGUAGE BECAUSE I AM PASSIONATE ABOUT IT. THE VULNERABILITY OF THE PARTICULAR HISTORY OR PARTICULAR PEOPLE, VIS-A-VIS, THE REALITY OF THE GOOD, AT LEAST, THE VULNERABILITY. SO, THE QUESTION THEN IS, CAN WE OR DO WE TEAR DOWN AMERICA, TEAR DOWN ANY MISSION COMPLETELY SIMPLY BECAUSE THERE WAS A TERRIBLE HISTORY. WOULD THAT BE THE WAY TO VIEW THE SOCIETY? IF WE DO THAT, THEN WE HAVE TO TEAR DOWN ALL SOCIETY IN THE WORLD BECAUSE NONE IS A SAINT. >> RIGHT. >> Guest: IF WE DO THAT, MY OWN BIRTHPLACE WOULD HAVE TO BE TORN DOWN BECAUSE WE HAVE TERRIBLE THINGS WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST AS WELL. HERE IS THE FAITH. AND I WOULD BRING US BACK TO WHERE WE ARE PART OF WHO WE ARE AS A PRIEST, THE TEACHING OF THE CHURCH, THE VULNERABILITY, BROKENNESS OF THE SOCIETY, THE BROKENNESS OF THE HUMAN BEING. WHEN WE LOOK AT ALL OF THE, WHAT THE LORD HAS DONE FOR US, LOOKING AT THE BEAUTY OF THE CHURCH, LOOK AT ALL OF THE GOODNESS OF THE LORD ON GRACE. TELL ME, DID WE RECEIVE A PERFECT BODY WITHOUT SUFFERING, WITHOUT THE PAIN OF THE CROSS? WELL, TO US, ANY TIME THE LORD JESUS APPEARED, HE SHOWED THEM HIS HANDS, THE WOUNDS BECAUSE IT IS THE WOUNDED BODY OF CHRIST ON EARTH THAT IS HEALED BY THE POWER OF GOD'S GRACE. IF YOU ARE WAITING FOR A PERFECT SOCIETY, WELL, IF YOU WANT TO ENJOY THE PERFECTION, THEN THAT'S NOT THIS WORLD. THAT IS WHAT YOU FIND IN HEAVEN. THAT WORLD IS UTOPIAN BECAUSE THE WORLD, THE REAL WORLD, LET ME ASK YOU THIS. DON'T YOU DEAL WITH YOUR OWN BROKENNESS AS A PERSON? I DO. AND I LOVE TO BE SAINT PADRE PIO OVERNIGHT BUT I SEE MYSELF FALTERING IN MANY WAYS. DO I DISCREDIT MYSELF COMPLETELY BECAUSE I AM NOT PERFECT YET? I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT APPROACH TO LIFE. IT APPEARS TO SOCIETY TOO. CAN WE SEE THE GOOD AND LIST THE BAD OR ONLY THE BAD? WE HAVE TO CHANGE THIS MINDSET AND THINK OF THAT PSYCHOLOGY, NOT JUST THE HALF EMPTY PART. BECAUSE THAT DOES NOT HALF FULL GIVES US HOPE THAT WE CAN BE BETTER AND THE GRACE OF GOD IS THERE TO SUPPORT US. AND SO THAT'S MY RESPONSE, DESTROY EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT'S JUST A LITTLE FLAWED. WELL, THAT'S ENDURING AND [INAUDIBLE] >> Fr. Pacwa: WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I SUSPECT IS SUBTLETY GOING ON, AN IMPLIED BELIEF IN TOTAL DEPRAVITY. A DOCTRINE THAT CAME UP, IN SOME WAYS FROM JOHN CALVIN BUT MOSTLY FROM HIS FOLLOWERS, HIS DISCIPLES. THIS IDEA THAT THE WORLD IS TOTALLY DEPRAVED SEEMS TO PERMEATE SOME OF THESE GROUPS OUT THERE THAT SAY, THEREFORE, YOU HAVE TO DESTROY EVERYTHING. A CATHOLIC PERSPECTIVE IS THAT WE KNOW THAT THERE IS ORIGINAL SIN. WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE FALLEN AND THAT WE'RE A FALLEN RACE. BUT EVEN IN THE MIDST OF THAT FALLENESS, WE DID NOT HAVE OUR INTELLECT TAKEN AWAY FROM US BECAUSE WE STILL THINK. WE DID NOT HAVE FREE WILL COMPLETELY DESTROYED. WOUNDED, YES. DESTROYED? NO. >> Guest: NO. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND THAT GOD'S GRACE WORKS DESPITE OUR SINS. AND HIS HUMILITY, I ALWAYS THINK OF THIS, GOD IS SO HUMBLE THAT HE WORKS WITH SINNERS. HE CHOSE 12 SINNERS, ALL OF WHOM FAILED AT THE MOST CRUCIAL MOMENT OF THE MINISTRY, NAMELY IN THE GARDEN OF GETHSEMANI. ALL 12 FAILED. YET, HE DOESN'T SAY, I'LL JUST KILL THEM ALL OFF AND START OVER AGAIN. OUR LORD WORKS WITH THOSE FLAWED HUMAN BEINGS AND WORKS TO TRANSFORM THEM BY SUFFERING THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR SIN, THE GREED OF JUDAS ISCARIOT AND THE DECEPTION OF JUDAS ISCARIOT, AND THE COWARDICE OF THE OTHER 11. HE SUFFERS BECAUSE OF THAT AND HE REDEEMS THEM IF THEY WILL ACCEPT IT. IN SOME WAYS, THOSE WHO WOULD TRY TO SAY, NO, JUST GOT TO DESTROY EVERYTHING AND START OVER AGAIN, THEY ARE THE JUDAS ISCARIOT WHOSE RESPONSE TO FAILURE WAS TO COMMIT SUICIDE. THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT TO DO IN A CULTURAL LEVEL, CULTURAL SUICIDE. >> YEAH, CULTURAL SUICIDE, THERE'S A PARADOX IN THAT CULL DO YOU RECALLED SUICIDE. THE PARADOX IS WHAT I PERCEIVE AS A VOID, EMPTINESS, THAT WE'RE TRYING TO FILL. AND I THINK THAT THE WORLD, THE WAY TO FILL IT IS TO DESTROY EVERYTHING. AND THAT BRINGS ME TO SOMETHING THAT, THINK IT WAS VICTOR FRANKEL, MAN'S SEARCH FOR MEANING. >> Fr. Pacwa: OH, I LOVE THAT BOOK. >> Fr. Pacwa: IT'S ONE OF THE BEST SIMPLE BOOKS EVER. IT'S A REALLY A BEAUTIFUL BOOK. >> Guest: HE TALKS ABOUT THE INVOICED IN THE CULTURE, HOW MANY OF US WANT TO AVOID SUFFERING AT ALL COSTS. THIS ATTITUDE IS LIKE SAYING, SOMETHING IS NOT PERFECT, WE DESTROY EVERYTHING. SO, WE'RE TRYING TO RECOGNIZE WHAT'S THE SUFFERING REALITY. AND WE WANT OUR OWN UTOPIAN REALITY WHICH HAS NO SENSE OF THE SO-CALLED SUFFERING. SO, WE WANT TO FIND MEANING IN THAT. BUT THAT'S NOT HOW THINGS WORK. LIVING IS IN DISCOVERING THE REDEMPTIVE PART OF SUFFERING. THE WHOLE PLOT OF THE NOVELIST, CRIME AND PUNISHMENT, WAS ALL CAST. I DIDN'T LIKE THE BALANCE OF THE PLOT. BUT YOU CAN SEE IT'S ABOUT REDISCOVERING THE VALUE, THE MEANING THAT'S THERE, THE REDEMPTION THAT'S INTERLOCKED WITH SUFFERING. AND WHEN WE AVOID SOMETHING COMPLETELY, WE LOSE THAT. AND NOW WE'RE READY TO GO BEYOND OURSELVES AND TO OFFER SOMETHING, DO SOMETHING, DO SOMETHING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE. SO LOVE TO SOMEBODY. AND SHOW SERVICE THAT COSTS US SOMETHING. AND WE LOSE SOMETHING AS WELL. AND THE FUNDAMENTAL OF IT IS, THERE'S SOME SORT OF EGO CENTRISM THAT WANTS THE WORLD TO BE THE WAY I WANT IT. AND THAT WAY I WANT IT WOULD BE MY DEFINITION, WAS TO BE WITHOUT ANY PINCH OF THE SUFFERING OR THE WOUNDS. WELL, THAT'S NOT REAL. SIMPLY JUST NOT REAL. WE HAD TO COME BACK DOWN FROM THIS AND LEADING IN THE REAL WORLD AND VIEWING IT FROM THE REAL WORLD. SO, BASICALLY, I THINK WE NEED TO ASK THE QUESTION, WHAT IS THE TRUE MEANING OF OUR LIFE. >> Fr. Pacwa: YES. >> Guest: WHAT IS THE TRUE MEANING OF WHY WE DO WHAT WE DO. HOW DO WE DO IT BECAUSE WE ARE COMPELLED BY OTHERS TO DO IT? OR ARE WE CONVINCED THAT THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION TO ASK NOW, EVERYBODY IS JUST, WELL, LET'S JUST DESTROY. IT'S A CERTAIN. >> Fr. Pacwa: YEAH. I THINK WHAT WE SEE THAT SOME OF THE RIGHTEOUS ANGER, CERTAIN SITUATIONS THAT SHOULD EVOKE A RIGHTEOUS ANGER AND THAT RIGHTEOUS ANGER HAS BEEN A CHOICE. DO I LET MY ANGER MOTIVATE ME TO BRING CORRECTION TO THE SITUATION. DOES IT FIRE ME UP TO HELP IMPROVE SOCIETY AND LIFE? OR DO I SAY, NOPE. IT'S ALL OVER. JUST DESTROY IT ALL! THIS IS A TENSION THAT WE ARE SEEING LIVED IN OUR OWN SOCIETY RIGHT NOW. SOME FOLKS ARE GOING TOWARD THE ANARCHIST MOVEMENT. AND THIS HAS BEEN AWHILE FOR A WHILE, BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE AND PLENTY OF ANARCHISTS. AND THEIR ANGER MOTIVATES THEM TO DESTROY WHEREAS, THE RIGHTEOUS ANGER OF JESUS CHRIST, WHEN HE SAW THE PEOPLE WHO WERE SELLING, TRADING IN THE TEMPLE AREA AND CHEATING PEOPLE, HE DROVE THEM OUT. BUT HE STAYED IN THE TEMPLE AND TAUGHT THE TRUTH. THIS IS THE CHOICE WE HAVE TO MAKE. >> FUNDAMENTAL CHOICE WE HAVE TO MAKE. AND I HAVE TO SHARE THE GOOD NEWS, ACTUALLY, FATHER MITCH. I HAVE WITNESSED MANY PEOPLE WHO I REALLY DO A LOT, THEY HELP THE COMMUNITY, AND THEY REACH THE YEARS, TO BRING A JUST SOCIETY. I HAVE SEEN QUITE A FEW. AND IT'S ENCOURAGING TO SEE THIS. SO, TO HAVE TO DO SOMETHING, THE BEST WAY TO CHANGE THE WORLD IS TO CHANGE MYSELF AND FROM MY VANTAGE POINT, TO CHANGE MY COMMUNITY AS MUCH AS I CAN. AND TO DO SOMETHING. I HAVE SEEN MANY, MANY DOING LITTLE, LITTLE THINGS. THEY SEEM LITTLE BUT THEY MEAN SO MUCH TO BRING HEALING TO THE WOUNDED WORLD. THE QUESTION I ASK IS, WHERE AM I IN THIS TIME? AM I SO IN LOVE AND AM I SEWING THE SEED OF LOVE TO COMBAT AGAINST HATE. SURELY YOU SHOW THEM JUSTICE AS THEY COME BACK INJUSTICE. AND AM I LIVING IN CHRIST'S WAY IN THIS PURE SOCIETY. AND AM I ACTING JUSTLY IN MY DEALINGS WITH OTHER PEOPLE? AM I SPEAKING THE TRUTH? YOU SEE, UNLESS I ASK MYSELF THAT QUESTION, WE WILL BECOME MORE LIKE AN INTELLECTUAL EXERCISE THAT MAKES ME FEEL GOOD BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT I SHOULD LIFT A FINGER. I BECOME MORE ABOUT WHAT JESUS SAYS, YOU KNOW, NOT LIKE HIM, BUT WHEN THEY TALK TALK TALK. AND LET ME SHARE SOMETHING WITH YOU. MY EXPERIENCE IN AMERICA. >> Fr. Pacwa: SURE. >> Guest: I'VE HEARD SO MANY PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORS. AND WHEN I WAS IN AFRICA, I WASN'T GETTING THOSE CONCEPTS ACTUALLY. SO, IT'S A NEW CONCEPT AND MORE AND MORE IN AMERICA. SO, I LOOK BACK, AND MANY PEOPLE WHO TALK SO MUCH ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORS, IN MY EXPERIENCE, AND I HAVE MANY EXPERIENCES OF THE PEOPLE I HAVE KNOWN, THEY DO SO LITTLE TO HELP THE POOR! THOSE WHO TALK SO LITTLE ABOUT IT, THEY DO SO MUCH AND I WANT TO SHARING THIS LITTLE INSTANCE WITH YOU. IT'S NOT TERRIBLE. BUT IT'S SOMETHING REAL THAT HAPPENED IN CLEVELAND BY AN ADOPTED FAMILY. AND FROM TIME TO TIME I GO THERE TO HELP TIDY UP THE HOUSE OR HELP OUT IN THE YARD. SO, I GO THERE, AND I'M A PRIEST. AND THEY SAY, OH, I'M A PRIEST, I'M A CATHOLIC TOO. AND BUT I AM A SOCIAL CATHOLIC. AND I SAY, OKAY. SOCIAL CATHOLIC, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? AND I TRIED TO USE THE SOCRATIC, YOU KNOW, SEEMS TO COOPERATE AND KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE PERSON IS TALKING ABOUT. AND I SAY, WHAT DO YOU MEAN? DO YOU MEAN YOU ARE SOCIABLE. AND HE SAID, NO, I MEAN THAT I'M THE KIND OF CATHOLIC THAT I'M NOT CHURCHY, CHURCHY, YOU KNOW, DON'T GO TO MASS. I HELP THE POOR. AND I SAID, THAT'S FASCINATING AND I THINK I HOPE YOU DON'T MEAN THAT FOR A CATHOLIC PRIEST. BECAUSE I'M NOT EXACTLY CONCERNED WITH SOCIAL JUSTICE. HE SAID, NO, NO, I JUST DON'T BELIEVE THAT CHURCH MAKES THE MAN. AND I SAID, OKAY. MAY I ASK YOU A PERSONAL QUESTION. AND HE SAID SURE. I SAID, HOW MANY PEOPLE DID YOU HELP? HOW MANY COMMUNITIES DID YOU SERVE? HE WAS SILENT. LAST MONTH, HOW MANY PEOPLE DID YOU HELP? HOW MANY COMMUNITIES DID YOU SERVE? SILENCE. AND I SAY, WELL, TELL ME. AND THEN HE SAID [INAUDIBLE]. AND YOU SEE THE PARADOX? I'M A SOCIAL CATHOLIC, MY GOAL IS TO HELP THE POOR. AND THEN YOU GO TO THE TAX RETURN AND YOU SEE NO DEDUCTIONS THERE. SO MANY PEOPLE TALKING, TALKING AND MANY PEOPLE TREAT ME AS A PERSONAL SOMETHING. PEOPLE WHO LIKE ME BECAUSE OF WHO I AM, NOT BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF MY SKIN. THEY DON'T CLASSIFY THEMSELVES THAT WAY. AND I'VE SEEN SO MANY THAT DON'T JUST TALK, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN A VOICE. >> Fr. Pacwa: YES. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW, WE ALSO HAVE TO MAKE A COMMITMENT FOR WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO TO HELP BRING OTHER FOLKS TOGETHER. THE MEANS THAT THE LORD WANTS TO USE TO TOUCH FOLKS AND BUILD UP THEIR FAMILIES, HELP THEM SOMETIMES WITH THEIR NEEDS FINANCIALLY AND SO ON. THEIR NEEDS AND IN THE PHYSICAL AREA OF THE SICK AND SUCH BUT IT'S GOING TO BE ALSO SOMETHING THAT FLOWS BETTER WITH JESUS CHRIST. AND DO YOU LOVE JESUS CHRIST? IS THE LOVE OF JESUS CHRIST MOTIVATING YOU ON A DAILY BASIS TO RECOGNIZE HIMSELF IN THOSE WHO ARE NEEDY SO THAT YOU SEE JESUS REGULARLY IN THE NEEDY AND IN THE POOR AND SO ON. THAT DRAWS YOU BY LOVE TO DO WHAT OUR LORD ASKS YOU TO DO. >> EXACTLY, YOU SEE THERE'S AN IDEOLOGY, DICHOTOMY AND LOGICAL BINARYISM IN OUR CULTURE. YOU DON'T SEE THAT YOU CAN BE, THE FACT THAT YOU ARE A TRUE CHILD OF GOD WHO IS BORN AND BORN ANEW IN CHRIST, IN DEEP RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST. IT HAS A TRANS SOCIAL IMPLICATION. IT HAS A SOCIAL IMPLICATION. THAT'S THE TEACHING OF THE CHURCH, SOCIAL INJUSTICE, THAT DEEPER UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS PERSON IS CREATED IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF GOD. AND AS A CHILD OF GOD, I'LL REACH OUT TO LOVE MORE TO HAVE MORE, AND TO SERVE MORE. AND WHILE WE'RE THINKING OF THIS, EITHER OR, SOCIAL JUSTICE, CATHOLIC THERE. >> IT'S SOMETHING THAT PERMEATES CATHOLICISM. WE DON'T SAY WE HAVE THE BIBLE ALONE. BIBLE, SCRIPTURE, AND TRADITION. IT'S NOT GRACE ALONE. FAITH ALONE. IT'S GRACE, FAITH, AND IT'S OUR GOOD WORKS. THE CATHOLIC PERSPECTIVE IS ALWAYS TO KEEP A BALANCE THAT IS PART OF THE MYSTERY OF LIFE. AND THAT'S THE WAY LIFE ACTUALLY IS. THERE'S A LOT OF MYSTERIOUSNESS BY WHICH I HAVE THIS LOVE OF CHRIST AND THIS LOVE OF MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS. I WORSHIP HIM. I SERVED HIM, ALL THIS GOES TOGETHER. FATHER MAURICE, I'M AFRAID WE'VE RUN FLAT OUT OF TIME! I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THEY CAN FIND OUT MORE ABOUT YOUR WORK BY GOING TO REV EMELU DOT COM. THAT'S FATHER MAURICE'S WEB SITE. >> AND ACTUALLY, IF I CAN SAY THAT. YOU KNOW, I WANT TO SAY A WORD. NOW, THE MINISTRY IS REALLY THE BEST PLACE TO GO. I HAVE TO HAVE THAT BECAUSE OF MY SCHOLARLY. ewtn.com GRAPH ewtn.com GratiaVobisMinistries.org NOW, I NEED TO GO AND LET ME BLE BLESS EVERY ONE, IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. AND THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT SO WE CAN BRING YOU GUESTS LIKE FATHER MAURICE EMELU AND KEEP US IN BETWEEN YOUR GAS BILL AND ELECTRIC BILL SO WE CAN PAY OUR BILLS, TOO. [MUSIC]
