My name is Monk Rowe and we are filming today
for the Hamilton College Jazz Archive on the Hamilton campus. And I'm very pleased to have Etta Jones, vocalist,
with me today. I'm looking forward to having you visit. EJ: Thank you very much. MR: Welcome. You're in town for a performance with Houston
Person. EJ: That's right. MR: And you guys have a long performing relationship,
almost thirty years, is that right? EJ: Thirty-one years. MR: Thirty-one. EJ: It's like a marriage. MR: Yeah? EJ: One that works. MR: Those are the best kind, but not always,
they don't always happen. We were just talking, when you guys get your
repertory together for certain kinds of gigs, do you each bring something to the table? You know, "I'd like to do this tune," and
work it out? EJ: No. At first, when we first started working together
I used to like maybe write a list you know. But after a while that just went to nothing
and Houston started calling the songs, because I didn't want to take my break to write lists
to sing. And I couldn't think of anything to sing. It got so - you forget what you actually - what
songs you actually do. And he can call them in a minute. MR: I'm glad you said that. I have that same problem, remembering the
songs that you know. EJ: Right. MR: You have to make a list yourself. EJ: You really do. So it works so I don't have to do anything
but sing. MR: Do you travel - you said you live in Washington
and in New York? EJ: Yes. I have an apartment in Washington and I get
there sometimes twice a year, maybe three times a year, maybe more. I intend to go down more now because, in between
jobs, because I said wait a minute, I've had this apartment over twenty years and I get
down so seldom, I decided I'm going to go more often now. MR: But you probably have to travel quite
a bit to work. EJ: We do. We work constantly all over the country and
out of the country, and I love to travel, so it's okay with me. MR: You're in the right profession. EJ: Yeah, I'm in the right profession. MR: You know the last time I saw you was on
the Royal Caribbean. EJ: On the cruise. MR: On the cruise. And our cameraman was there, and we did some
interviews and I wasn't fortunate to get to find the time with you so this is a real pleasure. And that was a pretty pleasurable gig I would
imagine. EJ: Oh it is. And we have two coming up, two cruises, so
I'm looking forward to them. MR: I have to laugh because I see that they
do blues cruises too. And I wonder how you could have the blues
on a cruise. EJ: Right. Because you are extremely happy. It's like a different world. It's like no worries, no phones, and everyone
communicates with each other and they are so friendly. We love the cruises. MR: And they know the music pretty well too. The people that are on those things. EJ: And they really love the music. MR: Well you were raised in New York City,
you were born in South Carolina, is that right? EJ: Aken, South Carolina I was born, but I
was raised in New York. MR: Did the music, as you were growing up,
when did you first start being aware of jazz or swing music? EJ: Well I remember as a three year old, they
tell me I used to sing the songs from the radio and as I got a little older and a little
older, I heard Count Basie and Duke Ellington and Jimmy Lunceford and all those people,
and I went to the Apollo to see them. And when I heard Billie Holiday that was just
the end. I just said oh my God, it was haunting to
me. It was just - I just wanted to be a singer. But from a little kid I used to sing all the
time. What I heard I would sing, and they would
ask me to sing, and at the drop of a hat I would sing. MR: No problem. It wasn't like anybody had to force you. EJ: No. MR: When you heard Basie at the time, were
those the days with Helen Humes? EJ: Yes. And Thelma Carpenter worked with him also,
I was in love with Thelma Carpenter too, she was my second choice. Like Billie Holiday was my first and Thelma
Carpenter was my second. And of course Helen Humes and all the rest
of them. But she was the one I heard most - Billie
Holiday and Thelma Carpenter. And I would go to hear Billie down on 52nd
Street and she was just so amazing to me, and so beautiful, that I said oh God, I have
to be a singer. I wanted to do it professionally. MR: I wish I'd have been able to see her live. You listen to her records and it's a very
haunting sound. EJ: You could hear a pin drop when she sang. And they would just put a pin spot on her
face and it was just something to see, she was so wonderful. MR: Her tendency to sing behind the beat at
times, did you think that, when the musicians were doing that, did they have trouble with
that at first? EJ: I don't think so. Maybe someone would have trouble if they were
just new to her, I mean she was new to them, then they'd probably have problems. Because they also would say to different people
that worked with me, because I have a tendency to lag, and they would say how do you sing
with her? And at first they would have the problems
and then someone would say, "Just play the song like it goes, and don't even - you know
- pay her no attention." MR: Yeah, as an accompanist, you must have
a feel at first, like I wonder if I should follow. EJ: Right. MR: Because I slow down too. EJ: No. MR: And then all of a sudden you've got a
problem. EJ: That's right. MR: So by the age of 15 you had this incident
happen at the Apollo was it? EJ: Yes. My friends talked me into going. They said here's the mic. They got a broom you know, they said, "Here's
the microphone and you stand there and let me see what you're going to do." And so I said, "No I don't want to go." Oh no, the Apollo. Because the Apollo was real scary because
they would boo you off in a minute. But anyway they talked me into going and I
went and I sang and I did not win, on the contrary to what some folks thought. They almost booed me off, because I started
in the wrong key. MR: What song was it you were singing? EJ: "Embraceable You." I'll never forget it. But Doc Wheeler was there. He happened to have a band there. I don't know if you're familiar with Doc Wheeler. MR: No, I'm not. EJ: And he held up his hand and said, "Give
her a chance, give her a chance." And so I started again in the right key, and
of course my knees were knocking, I had to try to place my feet down hard to stop from
being so nervous. But I got through it, and when I finished,
Joe Menard was the male vocalist with Buddy Johnson's band, and he said, "Wait around,
he's looking for a vocalist. His sister is having a baby." I said, "Oh no, I can't do that, I'm scared." He said, "Wait here." He was very forceful. "Wait here, he will talk to you." And so there was another young lady that waited. But she didn't know the songs, and I did from
the juke box. Because we were always listening to music
and playing the juke box, dropping nickels. So Buddy Johnson played the piano and said,
"Sing this." And he played "Please Mr. Johnson." He started and I said - "Please Mr. Johnson." They said, "That's Ella, that's Ella" she
knows how to - and that's how I got the job. MR: Ella was his sister, right? EJ: Ella Johnson was his sister. And that was a Wednesday night, and I left
Friday, two days later. MR: To go on the road? EJ: To go on the road. MR: At 15. EJ: I didn't even know how to get out of town. But he went and he talked with my mother,
and it was summer so I was out of school, and he asked, and said he would be my guardian
on the road and he would watch out for me, and she had no need to worry. And she said yes. I said, "Oh please, please, oh please let
me go." Oh I was going to die if I didn't go you know. So my mother was so wonderful, she let me
go. MR: So you were playing dance halls? EJ: Right. MR: Small clubs. EJ: Small clubs and the theaters. We did the theater in Chicago and the Apollo
of course when we came back to New York. And then Ella Johnson went back with the band. And then I went to 52nd Street to the Onyx
Club. Hot Lips Page took me down there and the musicians
have helped me all through my career. They would say, "This one is looking for a
vocalist, you go." And so that was how everything happened for
me. Musicians have really been my friends, very
dear, and they taught me, I've learned so much from them because I don't read music. I can kind of sight read how it's going to
go if I look at the music, but I don't read at all, but I just, from doing it so long
I imagine, I learned more and more and more through the years. If you don't learn from the years, you need
to forget it. MR: Well I think musicians and accompanists,
they appreciate a relationship with a singer that's back and forth, that they value when
you're learning something from them, and vice versa. EJ: Yes. And I worked with such wonderful musicians,
you know, Cedar Walton for a while. I worked with him like before I worked with
Houston. We used to do a lot of gigs together. MR: Well just for historical purposes, can
you recall what you were making on that first tour? EJ: I know exactly what I was making. I made $50 a week. And we did one-nighters, and I got $50 if
we worked or we didn't. MR: Oh well that's good anyway. EJ: I think the guys got like $35 a night,
I'm not sure, but I got $50. And you know what? I lost my first pay. I left it in the restaurant on the counter. I had a little bag, and we left and I left
the bag there. I guess I was so excited you know. And so Buddy Johnson took $5 a week out of
my $50, to take back. Because he gave it back to me. So I had to pay it back. So I learned a great lesson then. MR: He was a guy, Buddy didn't perhaps get
the recognition that he deserved. EJ: Through the south he did. And in New York, and the big cities like Chicago,
New York and Philadelphia and those kind of places I think he did. But through the south he was very big. MR: Was it different, in later years, when
you would tour different parts of the country? Were you met with obviously different kinds
of audiences, but what was it like being on the road in different areas of the country? EJ: It was just about, well I think a lot
of times the south was more, well I was with kind of a blues band I guess, and he was so
popular so they were like wonderful. Everywhere he went they greeted him so boisterously. They really liked Buddy Johnson. He was really a big band leader in that time. But a lot of people don't seem to even remember
him or know of him today. But he was a very big band leader. MR: And you worked on and off with him in
later years too. EJ: Yeah. Well we happened to be thrown into the same
theater at the same time, but I never was with the band anymore. But we were in Chicago later, after I had
"Don't Go To Strangers," and we worked together and he was so happy for me, because he was
an extremely nice man. I happened to have very nice bosses. Because Earl Hines was wonderful, and J.C.
Heard was a wonderful boss for me. MR: That's fortunate because it could have
gone the other way. EJ: It could have. Because I've heard stories that I don't care
to repeat. Some of the band leaders were kind of rough
you know. But I always managed to get the nicest, nicest
people. MR: In the theaters that you played in those
days, was that the situation in those days, where they would show movies, and you would
play a few times during the day? EJ: Yeah. Sometimes we would be on call as soon as we
got off the stage because there would be six shows a day at the Apollo sometimes. They'd say, "Half an hour is in" so that meant
you had half an hour before you started all over again, to get yourself together. MR: And could the audience stay there all
day? EJ: They could stay all day. MR: How much did it cost to get it? Do you recall? EJ: Maybe 35 cents. MR: Wow. EJ: And two movies and a show, and a chapter
and the news, everything. MR: And great music. EJ: And great music. MR: Now when your first opportunity to record
came up, you had kind of an interesting, if my facts are correct, it was kind of an interesting
combination of people. Was it Leonard Feather? EJ: Yeah, the pianist didn't show up so Leonard
Feather had to play piano. And it was Georgie Auld on tenor, and it was,
the bassist was, his son is named Pickles, I can't think of his name right now. But it was all top notch musicians, and Georgie
Auld on tenor and clarinet was - MR: Barney Bigard? EJ: Yeah Barney Bigard, yeah, help me. MR: I'm trying. EJ: Barney Bigard. And drums was Stan Levy? Did you know Stan Levy? MR: Oh Stan Levy. EJ: And I can't think of the bass player. A very well known bass player too. MR: It wasn't Milt Hinton. EJ: No. MR: He's always a good guess because he played
on so many records, you know you've got a 50 percent chance. And this was for what label? Or was it for a label? EJ: Oh, Black and White. It was for Black and White. And then I got a chance to record with National
and RCA Victor and I think Decca. Some of them I've forgotten the labels I was
on. MR: Were you paid a flat fee for the recording? EJ: Yes. MR: Were you in the union? Were the vocalists in the union? EJ: No. Not when I first recorded, no. MR: So you were paid a flat fee and after
that you pretty much didn't expect to get anything for the records. EJ: I think they gave me a contract for a
penny or a half a cent, I don't remember, but after they sold 900,000 records. MR: You really couldn't expect too much from
that. EJ: And they stuck me with $50 all the time. I mean I would get $50 for four sides in those
days, for two records. It was like $25 a record. MR: And these were 78s? EJ: Right. MR: And so you had one tune on each side. EJ: Yes. MR: And they couldn't be too long either. EJ: Because I think, what was it, 3-1/2 minutes
or something like that. MR: Was your mother happy with your career? EJ: Yes, very. MR: That's nice to hear. EJ: I think she was very proud. MR: And I assume that you got to meet Billie
Holiday? EJ: I met her at least three times. Once in Chicago she was leaving after one
of the shows, a break, probably going somewhere to eat, and they introduced me to her, and
I was just in heaven, and she had this big white fox fur on, and a big flower. Oh she was so beautiful, and my heart almost
stopped beating. And then when I was at the Onyx Club on 52nd
Street, she was working across the street and they must have told her, "This little
girl over here that's working over here sounds like you." And she came and she stood by the cash register. I could see her over there listening. And I don't know what she said or anything,
but I was just, I don't know why I wasn't so nervous. Because when I met Thelma I asked her, "Do
you hear any of you in me?" And she said, "Maybe." I wanted to ask Billie Holiday do you hear
any of- because I mean she was my idol so whatever I sang probably sounded like her. MR: But did you consciously say I'm going
to sing this like I think Billie would sing it? EJ: No. It just came out like that and then people
say they still hear it now but now they say I came through it. And I figure if you're a singer and you like
someone, you're going to sound something like them until - especially when you first start. And then after that you will come out of it
yourself into your own self. You know you might have a little, still a
little of them here and there, but you'll have your own thing. MR: Well you have to learn from somewhere. You have to have something to aspire to. And I think it's the same for saxophone players. EJ: Right. MR: Find an influence and then move on. EJ: Yes. MR: Well you recorded on this particular record,
this was the follow-up to one of your, I think when you had "Don't Go To Strangers," I think
this was the record to follow it. EJ: Does that have "Through a Long and Sleepless
Night" on it? MR: Yes. EJ: It might have been. MR: In fact I was going to refresh your memory
here. MR: I think Nancy Wilson listened to you. EJ: You think so? MR: I think so, when I hear that. It's beautiful. You were on Prestige for quite a while. EJ: Quite a while. MR: Now when your recorded that, I'm always
curious- EJ: And thank you for what you said, you said
beautiful. MR: You're welcome. "Don't Go To Strangers" it was a really nice
hit for you. At that time, what did people consider a hit? How many records? EJ: Well I got a gold record for that one
so I don't know exactly in terms of numbers. But I was always under the impression that
when you sold a million copies or close to it, you got a gold record. I don't know if that's true or not, but I
do have a gold record for "Don't Go To Strangers." And I tried to do that song for ten years. But it wasn't commercial they said. Each time I would want to put it on an album. "That's not commercial." You know because they always think they know
what might go and what might not go. But you never know. And you will never know. Something - it just went. I guess the people were ready for something
that they could relate to. "Don't Go To Strangers" people started saying
it. It was just, I'm glad I didn't do it ten years
ahead of time because maybe it wouldn't have been-
MR: The timing was right somehow. EJ: Right. And so all of a sudden I went from $50 a weekend
to $750 a weekend. It was frightening. I just couldn't stand it. I couldn't stand all the attention. How would you like your hair? How would you like to do- It was bugging me. I'm not a person that likes a lot of fanfare. MR: Yeah, for people to wait on you. EJ: No. They said well let me help you - I said wait
a minute I can put on my own shoes. No thank you. So I think now if I had a big hit again I
could deal with it. I would know how to handle it. But then it was very trying. MR: And you were how old then? EJ: I think - was I 28? Something like that. MR: It was around 1960, wasn't it. EJ: It was '59. And it developed in '60 really, when they
started playing it. It was coming out of the stores, it was on
the juke box. And a friend of mine came and he said, "Your
record is on the-" I said get out of here, don't tell me that. He said, "Yep, come on, let's go, I'll let
you see." And when you get on the juke box and they're
playing it and you hear it coming from record stores-you know that you've got something
going. MR: Yeah, and you weren't even aware that
it was happening. EJ: I wasn't aware. But I heard Symphony Sid play it and Mort
Feeger, on the radio. And I thought wait, I thought maybe it was
going to be played once or twice, you know, but they started playing it and they started,
I couldn't believe it. I was so grateful, because it meant travel,
it meant better clubs, it meant more money. But the money wasn't really that important
to me, I mean I just loved to sing so much, and I wanted to get paid, I mean it's not
unimportant, I wanted to get paid a decent salary and I wanted to work in a decent place. And so the record afforded me that, it really
gave me - and one thing about going on the road and having something that would make
people know you, you get to have a lot of friends. I have friends across the country. I have so many keys to so many -
MR: People's houses and apartments? EJ: People's houses. When I said that one time I said oh wait a
minute now, I have keys to families, not keys to different guys. But it made me have so many friends and I'll
never forget this singing business for that. I have so many across the country. And they wait 'till I come. "She's coming next week," or, "she'll be here." They start calling each other you know. And I have friends that never see each other
until I come. MR: That's terrific. EJ: So it's really nice. I love my job. I really do. MR: And you get to associate, I mean on that
particular record, you had Frank Wess and Roy Haynes. EJ: Roy Haynes, yeah. MR: Good company. EJ: I had George Duvivier on bass on that. MR: Wow. And you've worked with a lot of good tenor
players too, starting, well maybe not starting with Houston but-
EJ: With Gene Ammons, with Sonny Stitt, alto and tenor, with what's his name - let's see
I'm going to get a blank now - Illinois, I worked with Illinois Jacquet. I've worked with - I can't think, I'm getting
a blank - but wonderful tenor players. MR: Can you think of something that a piano
accompanist would do that you would have to ask him not to - have you ever had situations
where you need to instruct the piano player - well you've been pretty lucky then. EJ: No I don't do it. Even if it's something, no I don't do it. I don't tell the drummer, I don't tell the
bass, I just- MR: You deal with what they play. EJ: With what they play. Houston will tell them, like since I'm with
Houston, "Don't do that- stop that." But I don't. And I never turn around. If something goes wrong, I'm not going to
turn around, I'm just going to go like, smile on through it. MR: Well why broadcast it to the audience,
right? EJ: Right. MR: Because a lot of times the audience will
not be aware. EJ: And sometimes I do something wrong, and
when Cedar and I were together I'd say, "What did I do that was wrong?" I know he knows the music better than I do. He said, "No that was me, Etta, I did-" I
said, "No I think I did that." And I would never - even though if something
happened, I don't want them to think - well I know they know more about the music than
I do, because they read music, they play it. All I do is steal it. And I kind of like know four bars from eight
bars and different things like that but why tell the teacher what's wrong, you know, if
you don't really know. But if something is wrong, I just try to deal
with it if something is wrong, I just try. I say no I'm not going to tell them. I don't want to get into that part of it. When we are working with someone that I haven't
worked with, I'll tell them like, "Don't listen to me, just play, play what you want to play
and just go ahead." That's what I do. But I feel like I'm chastising them, and I
don't want to do that. MR: Well you must be a pleasure to work with. EJ: I try to be. I try. MR: What have been some of your favorite places
to play outside of the country? EJ: Well I like San Francisco very much and
I used to love to work Kimball's - you've heard of Kimball's have you? MR: No I haven't. EJ: That was a nice club, I used to like to
go there and work. And Philadelphia was always one of my places
to work. I had lots of friends that loved my music
there. And I like the Tavern on the Green working
there, because it's so plush. And after working a lot of dives for so many
years, here and there, although they're fine with me too, I want to work so, but it's extra
special and it's very nice when you work someplace like Tavern on the Green. So that was one of my favorite places. MR: This is usually a hard question, but can
you think of some of the nastiest places you've played, and why were they nasty? EJ: Oh, I wouldn't say. MR: You wouldn't say it? EJ: You can see I'm a cream puff sitting over
here next to you. No I wouldn't say. MR: Just tough joints, huh? EJ: Yeah, some of them were real tough. The bathrooms are not together, and that type
of thing. The people were nice but the surroundings
were, yeah. MR: When you traveled down into the south,
was the audience that you would play for racially segregated? EJ: Yes. When I was with Buddy Johnson's band. They had a rope down the middle of the dance
hall and the black was on one side and white was on one side. But they all seemed to be enjoying themselves. And I went in a liquor store one time down
there and they had a rope down the middle of the liquor store. But all the money was going in the one cash
register. But I didn't see too much of that, just while
I was with Buddy Johnson's band. Because I didn't travel that much in the south. And I didn't live in the south. My mother left when I was six months old she
said. So I didn't come across any of that until
I went with Buddy Johnson's band. MR: Were you prepared for that at all? EJ: It was just strange. It was strange but we had no conflicts, no. The only time we were traveling one time,
after I got "Don't Go To Strangers" and it was the middle of the night. We were in Tipton, I think it was Tipton,
Georgia. And so my pianist was with me and the fella
that drove for me and everything at that time, and they stopped at this place, it was in
the middle of the night, it was like a little side restaurant on the side, and they were
going in to get some food. And they said, "Come on, Etta." I said, "I'm not going." This was in '60. Everything was still going on. So I said, "I'm not going in." So Walter says, "Well if you're dressed nice
and you've got your shirt and your tie, there won't be no nothing." So I said, "I'm not going in." So who stayed outside with me? Oh, my pianist stayed outside. And my manager and Walter went it. And when they went in there, they came out
telling me what happened. They said the woman said, "You can't come
in here. You can't." And he said everybody turned around at the
bar. She said, "Go around to the back." But there was no back. So anyway they came out. I said, "See you don't talk about if you're
dressed nice." I said, "No I'm not going in" which, I avoided
that. But they told me what happened. So they didn't want them in there. And I figured as much. You knew what happened in the south I mean
at that time. So I wasn't taking any chances. That's the only think I know of that happened. MR: Well that's fortunate that that was just
the one incident I guess. EJ: One incident. That's all. MR: How did the thing, your tenure with Earl
Hines come about? EJ: Well I was working in Harlem on 145th
Street, and the vocalist that was with him, Dave Tyler, that had worked with Earl at that
time, and he was getting ready to go on the road with him, but he said that Earl was looking
for a female vocalist also. So he said, "I'll take you down to meet him
and he'll audition you and let you sing." And so I said okay, thank you. And we went down and he auditioned me. I think I sang - "I fell in love with you"
- "Them There Eyes." So he said, "Okay, can you go on the road?" And he hired me. And I felt so bad because he hired me and
then he left Dave Tyler. He said, "You will join us after." And he never came. And I stayed 2-1/2 years, almost 3 years with
Earl. And I felt very bad. But I was very grateful to him for taking
me. So Earl was a wonderful guy. But near the end of his life he had forgotten
me. I went by to see him when he had the band
and Marva Josie - Marva Josie was the vocalist with him. And he looked at me and he said, "You're part
of my family?" He said, "Are you some of my family?" So I said, "No, don't you remember me? I'm Etta." And he just thought - he knew I was so familiar,
but he thought I was part of his family. And I read - the bass player that was with
us, Peter Martin Weiss, for my birthday he bought me Earl's biography. And I read a page in there and it said, "Etta
Jones was a cross between Ella Fitzgerald and somebody else, I can't remember, but I
have the book at home." He said, "It's too bad she changed her style." He was thinking I was Etta James then. He said it's too bad I changed my style and
went into rock & roll. So he had remembered me, but he remembered
me wrong. MR: I'll bet that's happened more than once. EJ: Oh God. MR: I'll take that as a yes. EJ: Yes. They introduce me on the radio, "And now we
have Etta James" and the people in the front row say "Jones, Jones" you know, they'd be
telling. But it happens to her also. She was working in San Francisco and somebody
hollered "Don't Go To Strangers." And she said, "Oh, did you come to see Etta
Jones? I'm so sorry, because I'm the other one." So she had a little speech that she used to
say, about she sings this way, and she sings the soft stuff, and I sing the other. Something like that. I don't know exactly, but they were telling
me. But they took pictures of us one time, we
were on the same show together in Chicago. And so Ebony came, I think it was Ebony, and
they took pictures of us. They gave us dueling guns. And I had my gun in her nose, and she hers
in - and someone gave me the picture, and someone stole it from me so I don't have it
anymore. But probably if I wrote to Ebony, maybe I
can get that picture again. MR: How long ago was that? EJ: It was probably '61. Something like that. We were at the Regal Theater together and
they came. And then they had us back to back with our
guns in the air. And they wrote, "It's going to be hotter backstage
than it is on stage with the two Ettas back there. But we were friends. MR: Of course. EJ: You know I don't dislike her and I'm sure
she doesn't dislike me. But we talk to each other. But our paths don't cross that much, but she's
a wonderful singer to me, with what she sings. And it's so different, I don't know how they
mix us up. MR: Do you enjoy singing like straight blues
songs? EJ: Yes, sometimes, yeah. And I love ballads. And I like them all. I like swing tunes too and I like blues. And I think that's how Leonard Feather heard
me, as a blues singer, when I was working someplace, I don't remember - at the Onyx
Club. And that's when he got me my first record
date. He came by and he said he would like to record
me. And that was like, are you kidding? Yeah I'd love it. And that was the beginning of my recording
career too. MR: How long did you have to make a record? A few hours? EJ: Three hours. I think it was three to four hours. I think at that time if you went into four
hours it was a little overtime, I think it was just three hours they would allot to you
for recording. Of course if you didn't get it they would
go a little longer. But that's what it was. MR: Were you able to - especially in the early
days, say, "Look that take, I didn't feel good about that, can we do it again?" Or was it kind of the producer would say-
EJ: No, you could say, and they could hear, and you could hear when it was wrong. In those days everybody was in the same room
together. And they always told you to go through, even
if it was bad, just go on through, because you might salvage something. It might not be as bad as you thought it was. And they would ask you to keep on. But sometimes it was so bad you'd forget something
and you'd just stop. MR: Have you done, in more recent years, with
the headphones, singing to something that's already been recorded? EJ: Oh like overdubbing? MR: Overdubbing? EJ: Yes, I've done some of that. MR: Did it take a while to get used to that? Did you like it at first or was it not that
big a deal? EJ: No. It was like singing, because you hear the
music so forcefully in your ears that it's like being there. But I'd rather do it when we're doing it,
because everyone is there. But sometimes you have to overdub. MR: Well I wanted to ask you, you mentioned
that you have a birthday coming up. And you said two of them. EJ: Well this is the story on that. I went to Japan with Art Blakey in '69 I think
it was, yeah it was '69, going into '70. It was New Year's Eve when we were flying. But before I got my passport I sent away for
my passport and it was taking so long, and I was wondering what's wrong, what's happening. So I was born November 25, 1928. When I got the passport I was born October
15th 1927, that's what they said. Now my mother told me my date, I believed
my mother, but for important or legal things, I have to take October 15th, 1927. The only reason I remember the date is because
it's my girlfriend's, my best girlfriend, it's her birthday. So we used to celebrate hers and then celebrate
mine. October 15th, unless I would have had to refer
to it, to remember what it was. So that's how I got two. So when we were on a cruise in October one
time, they came - Happy Birthday To You. I said where are they getting - they were
coming to me. Because they know the dates from your passport. And I said, "I wasn't born-" and then I said
oh, yeah. So that's how I got the two dates. But I still say my mother's right. I don't know. Well you know I was born in the south and
by a midwife, so they didn't - I don't know how they could have gotten confused like that,
but they didn't care in those days that much I don't think. But I'll take the two birthdays. It's not bad. MR: Can you think of a tune or tunes that
you've been singing almost from the start of your career that you still do? EJ: I'm trying to think. MR: How about "Embraceable You?" EJ: I don't sing that anymore. I think it was "The Masquerade is Over." I still do that sometimes, or "Ghost of a
Chance." Although it seems like I've been singing some
of these songs all my life. MR: Do you still do "Don't Go To Strangers?" EJ: "Don't Go To Stranger," oh yes. They still ask for that. And I say oh God. But you know I was so happy to get that song
that it pleases me when I do it because I would still be-
MR: Doing some dives? EJ: Oh yeah. MR: That we won't talk about. Those kind of places. Are there people out, new jazz singers, that
you enjoy these days? Do you get a chance to listen much? EJ: I don't hear too much but I like Vanessa,
Vanessa Rubin. Are you familiar with her? MR: Yes. EJ: And I still like Lorez Alexandria. Are you familiar with-? MR: No. EJ: But she's not a new singer. Della Griffin. Have you heard of her? MR: Yeah. EJ: That's my sister-in-law. She's just new recording, and she's been singing
a long time, but they're just beginning to hear her, but she's a very wonderful singer. So I like her. And there's a young lady, her name is Denia,
Denia Green. But I don't know if she's recorded yet or
not, but she's very good. I know you're speaking of probably you're
speaking of Diana Reeves, and I'm not too familiar with them, Diana Reeves, and Kral? MR: Diana Kral? EJ: I'm not familiar with them, and some other
singer they asked me did I hear - I can't think of her name. MR: Do you have any feelings about the state
of jazz music today and the future of it? EJ: I think it's going to go on and on. I believe as long as people can understand
it and understand what you're playing and pat their feet to what's going on, and if
they could dance it would be much better. But it's going to always be around. There are going to be people that still, when
they talk about jazz people think it's something they can't understand or it's going to be
so out that - but it's not. It's not like that. If they give it a chance they would know it's
beautiful music. And when I came up, see when I came up singing,
you had to hear every word. I mean you couldn't sing -. You had to hear
"You Don't Love Me." And you couldn't take breaths. You couldn't hear that on a record. that was a no no. They'd say, "what are you doing in there?" I'd say okay, I'll calm down. - "I fell in love with you the first time
I looked into them there eyes." I would take them down. They didn't want to hear. But now I hear -. I hear all kind of breathing. And if you said a word and they didn't understand,
you'd have to record again. "What are you saying back there?" Now you don't even have to hear the lyric. MR: I think that's very well said. I think the music has seemed to move more
toward just the rhythm end of it. EJ: Right. MR: And the rhythm has gotten louder. EJ: And the voice - and the story, when you're
singing a ballad people should get the meaning of what that story is about. If it's a love story and you love someone,
you're supposed to make it I love you. You're supposed to let the person know that
you're singing to someone that you love. Or if it's a little ditty, it's supposed to
be happy, then you sing- but you still should understand what the person is saying. I'm not saying be overbearing with it. But it should be understood. Because sometimes I say, "What did she say?" And I won't name no names. MR: Well great. When I'm listening to you tomorrow night,
I know I will understand all the words. EJ: I'll kill myself if you don't. MR: No, no, no, please don't. Houston was talking about how he'd love to
see people dancing again. EJ: I do too. See when I came up we were dancing to Count
Basie and Jimmy Lunceford and Andy Kirk. MR: Yeah, and I think the musicians got off
on that too. EJ: And Benny Goodman and Stan Kenton. We'd go down to the Paramount downtown to
see Stan Kenton. And I mean we almost wanted to get up in the
aisles and sometimes they would do that, get up in the aisles. But now-
MR: What about The Savoy. Did you ever get to the Savoy? EJ: Oh yeah. I went to the Savoy all the time. I used to put my age up and go. One time my girlfriend and I went and she
said a date and I said another date and he said "get out of here" he wouldn't let us. He said, "Where were you born," and, "where
were you born?" She said 19- He said, "Go." But we used to go. After a while they got so they knew us and
they would let us in so I'd see all of them, Lucky Millinder, all the bands there. MR: And did they have the two bands sometimes? EJ: Two bands. The Savoy Sultans would be there, and the
main band that was really nice. MR: And they would take turns. EJ: Yeah. It was continuous music, and continuous dancing. It was wonderful. MR: I'm curious about when you, in the early
days of not that much amplification, did you ever have trouble hearing yourself or did
the musicians adjust? EJ: They adjust, yeah. When they can't hear you, they want to get
down lower. Because it's hard to play behind somebody
and you can't hear them. And it's hard to sing when you can't hear
yourself, or play. Because you want to force yourself, you want
to make it, and you'll say I'm not going to try too hard, but you will and you'll get
hoarse or you'll ruin your chops when you're playing something. So you need to hear what you're doing. And if you don't hear what you're doing sometimes
you go out of tune, you must hear. That's why the monitor is so important. MR: Well it's really been a pleasure talking
with you and I- EJ: I loved it. MR: I haven't asked you - anything that you'd
like to add? EJ: It's easy talking to you. Sometimes when I get started, you know, you've
got to shut me up. MR: It doesn't sound like that you guys have
too much trouble finding work these days, you're working a lot. EJ: No. If there's a job anywhere, Houston will find
it. MR: Well it's nice to have someone taking
care of that end of the business. EJ: When we started working together, that
was really wonderful for me, because I don't have to worry about a thing. He's like my brother, my father, my husband,
only he's not my husband. People say, "Are they married?" I say, "Yeah we're married but to two different
people." Because they've married us all over the country. But he's wonderful, he's been very good for
me, and I hope I've been good for him. MR: I think so. I could tell. EJ: Thank you. MR: Well it's been a great pleasure and I
wish you the best for both of your birthdays coming up, and I hope you have a great cruise. EJ: Thank you so much. Are you going to be on this cruise? MR: I don't think so. Tim, can we go on this cruise? That was a slice of heaven. I mean I have to tell you that I agreed with
you, it was like being in another world. EJ: That's what it is. MR: Just going from room to room and hearing
all these great artists. EJ: And having people cut your lettuce up. I mean-
MR: Something to look forward to. EJ: It was very nice Monk, I enjoyed talking
with you. MR: Thank you so much. MR: All right.
