Episode 116 | Unpacking Baggage: Broken Relationships

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] well hey everybody and welcome to the debrief a weekly Q&A show from your friends here at Sandals Church I am your friendly host Justin party sitting across the table from Stephanie Schaffer of course we got POV the pastor background here yes and we got a special guest hanging right out over here welcome to the show we've got pester oh my gosh pastor brett ryan our resident expert and soul care director here at Sandals church the whitest man on staff wise man on staff yes hello everybody brett ryan extraordinaire we're glad to have you here we're really glad so here on the TV the reason pastor Brett Ryan is here is we are gonna be talking about baggage for the next few weeks and he's got a lot I got a lot that's true he helps us deal collective our baggage but watch this because you're so smart but you can't see right now Matt Brown just put on some glasses and yeah audio listeners get to watch us on YouTube you should check it out seriously I think my IQ goes up at like 21 points which is already maxed out so yeah yeah I can't do it okay well anyway we are talking about baggage over the next few weeks today we are talking about relational baggage which we got a lot of really great questions on that we're gonna jump yes including one of our most popular questions on the show which we'll jump into right there and for the next few weeks we're talking about anger next week and then we're gonna wrap it up with guilt and shame so Pastor Brett Bryan will be with us for that he's got a lot of education in this area we've got questions on those we would love to get those in you can send those in at debrief show or send us a message on Facebook we would love to get your questions on to the show so let's jump on into things huh so pastor Brett we would love just to get your insight even kicking off things on why maybe a relational baggage pastor might you talked it's weekend a lot about how we carry that with us even psychologically how that can affect us I'd love to hear you know some thoughts on that therapy session begins yeah yeah so I think one of the biggest things is that and pastor man talks about the Salah is that we were made for relationships mm-hmm relationships is how God relates to us it's how he relates to himself it's how we relate to each other so within that you know the myth is that in especially American culture we need to be independent but the reality is our relational inside of our brain our social side of our brain when we're little kiddos that actually rapidly develops quicker than our logical side and our understanding side and so even as a little kid a lot of times people experience this social understanding this relational understanding without even being able to logically know what it's about and be able to frame it in the right and understanding so for instance when you have a kiddo whose dad is always yelling at him and always mad at him he doesn't have that part of his brain developed where he can go dad's just had a hard day and he's just kind of a mean guy little kiddo goes there's something wrong with me there's something that I'm doing wrong and then he carries that for the rest of his life until someone's able to walk with him and he's able to engage the Lord in that so for kids that's where a lot of us get those relational wounds and we don't always understand them because when we were kids we had no way of understand just think growing up I'm just messed up I'm just loser I'm just a failure and that's why my dad was always mad mm-hmm and then for adults so for adults what we do is when we get rejected or when we get kind of pushed away and things like that it's researchers actually found that that triggers the same searches in the brain that is for pain hmm for physical pain so for adults we have that logical side to us that part of our brain is developed and what we do is we now move to I'm a logical person I can ignore this I can shove this down deep inside me and I don't have to deal with it but what we don't realize is that relational pain relational hardship it actually changes the way our brain fires it changes the way our brain and operates even if we're not aware of it and so we keep moving forward thinking that we will relationally heal and emotionally he'll but really what we're doing is just ignoring our entire self changing to where we can't operate well anymore and so that's why relational baggage is so impactful because from a kid to an adult it's some of the most impactful things because it rewires who we are and how we relate and how we feel mm-hmm well that's a great show thank you guys so much if you want to support the show the debrief we'll see you next week you can text to give I feel like I understand you so much better just someone when he shirt yeah I've always thought one side of your brain was more functional than you probably it's part two oh no excellent foundation the series has been going great and we've got a lot of questions that came in over the last couple weeks as we started talking about baggage so let's get into it so here's one from Leah or Leia I'm hopefully I'm not adding to your relational baggage my mispronouncing your name Leah Leah Leah I like Princess Leia okay there we go this past week your message really inspired me to look at my life's baggage and how it could feel like we are carrying it everywhere we go relational baggage is something I've struggled with letting bad relationships carry some type of weight in my life any insight on how to repack or let go of my relational hurts yeah I mean so that's something that you know you need to work out with the counselor so the challenge with counselor is they're only operating with the information you're giving them and so that's why community is so helpful people that know you because sometimes what we're putting off on everyone else is actually something that we that we're doing right so anytime I hear you know if someone has multiple issues and baggage with multiple people my first concern is always what's the common denominator there so be willing to look at yourself what is there something that I'm doing we can all learn from broken relationships that's what I think was really helped me maybe the last 1012 years of my life is wow that really hurt what can I learn and that's why you know don't ask why this week ask what what does Jesus want me to learn and so all relationships are dysfunctional what I would encourage you to do is enter into relationships with people who are committed to being authentic and real and because if they're if they're not willing to do that they're not awake you can't have a functioning relationship with somebody that's asleep so you need to be with somebody's awake so what I would say is maybe try to personally unpack that yourself because you are carrying that around and so here's what we're doing is like Brett Ryan extraordinaire was sharing right so we're storing that with us and it's going with us and so that's the problem is oftentimes when we enter into a relationship we're assessing the new relationship based upon the experiences from past relationships and and oftentimes that's the baggage and we're holding people accountable for sins they've never committed and that's the challenge and so we need to be willing to meet new people things you know I think that's one of the greatest problems in American today's we're separated relationally but we we think we know people I mean just constantly you know white people think this way black people think men are this way women are this way gay people this and it's just like you're making a generalization about millions of people you know we're and we're all very very unique in the way that we operate based upon who we are our age or gender our understanding our philosophy our beliefs our experiences and then our personality right I mean all of that's thrown out the window and there's just huge generalizations so we need to know people specifically so ask me Leah's question the second part of it any insight on how to repack or let go of my relational hurts well part of that is again like the warmth oh well you've got to come to Jesus and and just really confess this hurts this is painful this has wrecked my life because Jesus wants to deal with you in that pain and in that suffering and what's so amazing is after her encounter with Jesus she instantaneously has a desire to re-engage the very people that have hurt her that that's one of the things that's just miraculous there you know I think we all tend to when we're hurt and wounded isolate pull away then you find yourself at the well alone and I'm gonna go when nobody else goes I don't want to be seen because people aren't trustworthy they're not safe and then all of a sudden she meets Jesus and she's running right back to the community of the wounded her in the community that hurt her you ever think in the ancient world most people never left their hometown you know she probably never as a woman she never trials certainly as a single woman she's not traveling really anywhere because economically she's trapped so you know whatever it whatever the township of Sekar was there her community you know its relatively small and you know I mean literally no more than a few hundred people potentially or a thousand so so I just think that that's really really important is so bring it to Jesus and I think that there's two sides to confession with Jesus one is God here's what happened to me and then two here's how I've responded to that I think a lot of us focus on the wounding but not what the wounding Stud done to us because I've noticed in my that the sin I've committed against others my wife my kids is often in response to the sin that's committed against me and so you know they're saying I'm sure you've heard it Brett hurt people hurt people so it's it's it's looking at that and so here's the beauty in that processes of looking at what you've done is it gives you grace for others because like oh I did that for myself so and I think grace is the key that unlocks healing so so that's what I would do is begin to figure that out next is go to soul care and don't be afraid to talk don't be afraid to say hey here's what I'm struggling with and you got any advice or thoughts on that for Lia no I think what you said was great good that means you can come back next week you know yeah right explain like how soul care here works and what yeah yeah so soul cares about caring for people's souls over the solutions so it's about helping people engage the Lord in these tough times just like you're saying pastor Matt is that a lot of times people run away from God are isolate in these moments when what they really need to do is run towards God and run towards healthy people so if unhealthy people caused the damage healthy people are gonna help repair the damage right and God uses the community through that and community groups and soul care and things like that and I think what you said was was excellent is that you know emotions are indicators that indicator lights for us on our dashboard to let us know something's wrong and we don't need to ignore them we need to engage them not be led by them but engage them and bring them before the Lord and before community yeah amen that's right you said something really interesting in the start of that can you talk about the difference between awake and asleep you talked about that in the beginning of Leah's question yeah I mean it's that's the problem you know like you know some of us have you know parents that you desperately want to engage but they're not they're not awake they're they're not awake to what they've done or they're not open to conversation or some of us are married to a spouse that's not awake and so you're gonna have to do a lot of your healing journey on your own you're going to have to engage a healing process apart from the person that's hurt you or wounded you and you know here's the beauty about God is Jesus was able to engage this woman healing apart from the people that had wounded her so he identifies some of them five husbands and one man six men have wounded you clearly there was more spoken about than what we have because she says come meet the man who told me everything I ever did so this was a conversation you know and we don't have all of it because we don't need all of it it's her story so we can here's the good news we can heal we can't improve relationships apart from another person person being awakened a part of that's just okay I can't engage that person with where they are so that's what I mean some people you know they're clueless as to what they're doing that is you know offensive or is hurtful or is painful there are some people who can't apologize who will never say I'm sorry so here's the good news is your healing is not limited to their you know awareness or awakeness to the fact that they're hurting people you can and again once you do that okay this person is not awake you know and it gives you grace for them while they're sleepwalking and so and you can pray okay Lord waken them something happened in their life but some people man they sleepwalk their whole life so so that's what I would say is is this person you know this is a tension between my wife and I my wife and I hi one feels the need to confront and challenge everyone my three is is this gonna be successful or not right so yeah neither one of those are always healthy gauges but really both of us have to say okay is this person gonna hear this you know is is this person going to you know listen to what I have to say and so I like to speak truth into people's life who a vast me for it you know if you didn't ask me for it then I I'm not going to waste my time is gonna frustrate you is gonna frustrate me so that's just what I do I mean I do people do people want to hear what you know have a conversation are they open to that are they mature enough to be able to say yeah because the reason people don't own their stuff is are insecure they're insecure and they're immature we all hurt people we all make mistakes we all say things that we shouldn't say we do things we shouldn't do we're sinners from the time we wake up to the time we go to sleep that's why the world is broken and the way that it is because we just in spite of our efforts to get along and be nice and be kind we struggle every single day so some people are just not going to own what they do you know so so that that's what I mean by they're asleep they're not awake to the impact their decisions thoughts and words have another people they're just not aware of that they're asleep to what they do we as a church we want to be awake and I've been in small groups where you know I've been in a group with very very healthy people and they're just not ready to own what they're doing and you can beat you can beat your head you can get upset you can you know and or you just accept it and say okay when they're ready I'm here and I love them and I care for them but the relationship if someone's not awake it's stuck it's stuck at a point and you can't move forward so what you have to do is you have to make the commitment to move forward what what is God teaching me what is God teaching me about what I'm asleep to what am I missing what am I not doing and you know I think that's a painful process I think we're all deeply afraid that we've contributed somehow to the unhealth well we have we have I mean if you know Brett knows this I mean counselors and therapists are often some of the most dysfunctional people I've ever met you know counseling is a great place to hide you know if you're a little socially off I mean it's just right um you know just because you're a doctor a medical doctor doesn't mean you're healthy just because you're a pastor doesn't mean your spiritual just because you're a police officer doesn't mean you follow the law you see what I'm saying I mean we oftentimes we can we can we confuse profession for health it's like no you were good at taking a test or you just got this job so so we need to be aware of that and and that's the thing is you know many pastors that I meet right a shepherd is supposed to care for the flock or some of them as socially dysfunctional people but man they know Greek and Hebrew well that's great nobody in our church speaks it so can you engage with them in English and so that that's what I would say is is we all need to be awake and that's why Jesus says first pull the log out of your eye then help your brother with the speck in their eye it's not that that's not there it's that the most difficult thing to do is to notice this glaring object in you that you don't see you know I'm watching you my kids are growing and and they're maturing and two of my daughters - my only two daughters but two of my three children are adults and I'm watching that I'm like oh no they have they have some of my stuff you know so the positive side is right they're strong they're powerful people they're clear they vocalize whatever they see as wrong their weakness is they don't see themselves like they're not seeing you know and that's how I was and it wasn't really until about 26 years old when your brain is fully developed that I awaken - I've really got some stuff to work on in my life despite the fact that I am talented I am gifted I am usually morally good right I I don't steal you don't say I mean we don't we all know the the list I mean you can for the most part accomplish the ten commandments and still be a real pain in the rear so um so Anna Anna Anna was and I just wasn't concerned and carrying it so that that's what I'm saying is and so just give everybody give yourself grace take a deep breath we're all growing we're all waking up and so Leah you know my prayer for you is that you would wake up to a what people are doing that's hurting you B why are you picking those people in your life you know C what is your part in that process and working through those things it's not all you Leah let's just say that right people are just as broken as you are but you're doing some things you're contributing to that we don't find ourself in the same hole over and over and over again simply because of other people right you are the captain of your ship take responsibility steer do your boat yeah I'm not a pilot a boat I'm not a navigator steer your plane steering waterwheel yeah there we go so yeah let's we're sorry head to the starboard side and find this next question from Joelle how can we gently motivate our spouses to take steps toward acknowledging and releasing their relational baggage yeah that's really really difficult and should be done with real caution what I would say is lead for yourself talk about your issues what you're learning about yourself and make it safe for them to do that because okay you even in the context of marriage you know nobody loves me more in my life than my wife and probably nobody hurts me more in my life and my wife I mean that's just the truth learning to process you know that rejection and in a big part of that was I think the first 10 years Norma mares my wife really didn't think I had feelings because I didn't share them you know she she she saw me as very robotic very very basic and so and that's on me because I didn't demonstrate feelings or thoughts and I hid those from her because right I was not awake to myself and so part of that is continuing to learn you know I'm feeling rejected I'm feeling unloved unseen unheard I'm feeling I'm feeling this I'm feeling judged I'm feeling whatever and so you know navigating that constantly and then being willing to hear and so that's the problem is as soon as you open that up well my wife's got a whole list of feelings she has of things I'm doing so you know what I would encourage you to do is just constantly learn and and just really celebrate when your spouse becomes awake like my wife started reading a gal by the name of Bernie Brown like I think two years ago and burn a for whatever reason reached my wife in ways that no one else has now Bernays I don't think he's a Christian but doesn't mean she's not wise there's a lot of people say and going heaven they're stupid so and there's a lot of brilliant people going to hell so you know you need you need to be able to figure that out but Bernie began to open some things up you know in my wife you know Brunei gave my wife permission as a high one to express fear of or you know I'm not doing it right or I'm crashing you know burn a brown literally gave the words I think permission to my wife to express like what's the word I'm having an emotional breakdown so because one's right you can't I can't express that yeah because that's not possible so you're going to press through despite how you feel so Bernie Brown did that so just really you know understanding that and joining her in processing and not slamming your spouse you know I think we're all we all want our spouse to get one of everything and and just really loving them as they come along and as they awaken and the same is truth you know for my wife with me is you know as I'm aware of wow that was really rude you know being gracious to that and I was rude to her on Sunday night in front of several pastors at the party that we were at so I had to go apologize so an ad imagine thank me for that pastor of East Valley because he because it embarrassed him you know the way that I responded and and oftentimes in that situation when I'm tired you know I'm frustrated it's been a long weekend I don't respond at my best yeah and go figure right and the people that we're we live with get that hmm so oftentimes the people we love the most get us the very worst of us and so yeah that's what I would say is so so be gentle and and and know this you're not your spouse's Holy Spirit Holy Spirit is your spouse's Holy Spirit let God be God you'd be the husband you'd be the wife encourage be very very careful because often times you know when were real man what we really do is we hurt the process we don't we don't help it because we just shut the person down and Tammy and I've worked for years in counseling you'll probably laugh at not saying you always and you never right which I fail that constantly because when you use those words what you're saying is you're no good mm-hmm you know you and you got to say when you do this or when you did that hurt my feeling it's not for the last 22 years you've I mean that's just yeah so um you know but just lovingly encouraged and just and this let me say this if you're married if you don't press into this now it's only gonna get worse later mm-hmm you know couples that have been married 57 years that have not dealt with their crap it just stinks more mm-hmm and and that's sad yeah so yeah actually on that note Saracen and a really interesting question she says I'm struggling with letting go of some major past hurt and pain in my marriage I know we can't move forward toward a better marriage until I forgive and as a believer I know all my sins are forgiven by God so Who am I not to forgive but this pain is really hard to look past how do I genuinely let these things go and forgive how do people start making those steps forward yeah it just depends what it is and so you know I think oftentimes in Christian marriages especially when there adultery and I'm not saying that I don't know her case or that's that story but oftentimes adultery is one of the hardest things to get over I think we rush sometimes too quickly to restore and we don't think about what that's actually going to take and so I think the natural reaction when a spouse has been unfaithful is I feel rejected so therefore I want to be reaccept 'add and so then I latched back on and I haven't really thought about what that process means of actually forgiving and releasing and so then what I do is I I beat my spouse up for the rest of our life and I make us both miserable when what we need to do is find is find healing together because here's the thing the cheating spouse doesn't just sin against their partner they've sinned against themselves and so they have to embrace forgiveness for themselves and they have to release the I mean it's right it's it's dark for them and so that's gonna be hard for them to deal with their log in their eye when the spouse can't help them and so I think it's great within the context of marriage I think there needs to be repentance which is I own that I'm sorry that was wrong and I will not do that again because really relationships exist in trust and without trust right we just can't move forward and so you know hopefully her spouse is going to be mature enough to own something that they've done or did and you know there's some things right where you need to work with the church is there has there been abuse physical abuse I don't think that's something that couples should navigate themselves the church needs to be involved sometimes the police need to be involved and so you know I mean there's a reason there's court-ordered anger management classes which we're gonna talk about that next week because some of us need to work on that and typically when the court says you do it always amazes me I go to anger management classes we used to have them in our last campus and no one in there thought they needed to be in there like well the judge thought you needed to be here so you got any thoughts on that yeah you can't fully forgive if you don't fully acknowledge what's happened to you so a lot of times people want to move towards this place if one supposed to forgive and forget I just gotta let this go but real pain it needs to be met with real healing it needs to be met with a process it needs to you know just because you're working through your healing process doesn't mean you haven't forgiven them it means that what they did really hurt and it's gonna take some time and I think Christians we kind of default on the side of I'm just supposed to let it go and yes that's not the case you're supposed to heal and that takes time and it's not a quick answer and so just like you're saying if if you don't fully acknowledge the pain that's happened to you you you can't fully forgive you only partially you suppress the rest and then it sticks in your marriage for the next 20 years yeah until finally explodes well and one of the challenges now is that you don't get a break from people that have wound you to you so if you're married to them you see them every day or you go to the same church you see them or now that you see them on the internet and your friends like there and so it's constantly thrown in your face and and and I think a big part of the healing is this person who's been bad to me is so kind to these others or or at least these painted seems to be so kind or nice to these other people and they're treating them the way that I wish that they treated me and so that's just really really hard to navigate because what you've experienced is somebody's worse and you see on the social media them at their seemingly best and you know my wife and I constantly have to talk about you know that's the the Internet is fake like the Internet is it's staged right you know you pose for a picture right hey you guys stop acting the way you are and act this way so I can snap a shot right so um you know that's really really hard and and you know just for me and my own healing journey I had to unfollow some people I just did because me seeing it every single day was not helpful to to the healing process and you guys I think you heard me say I think that call him Voldemort or what did I call him Voltron Voltron yeah yeah yeah Voltron all of our home school parents just freaked out yeah Voltron a Japanese robot character was my evil person because it's not helpful to mention that person's name but it took me I think three years to to heal and because I was betrayed and lied to and and wounded and betrayal is deep and it hurts bad when someone that you love and trust is your assaulter right is your you know it's just brutal and thank god I've never gone through that in marriage so it wasn't Tami's not Voltron it's just everybody want it needs to know but it took me three years to work through that process and and be able to heal because that's the thing you know mr. Ryan that I was struggling with was God I've I've come to you I've literally prayed this prayer for I think six months Lord forgive help me to forgive them the way you've forgiven me Lord bless them the way you've blessed me okay I don't want them to be in prison for the rest of life I mean this person you know it was a Christian and a leader and a pastor I want you to I want you to utilize their life from ministry and and to help bring about change and that was hard for me cuz I didn't believe that you know what I really wanted them was you know them to be locked up and so maybe martyred for Jesus you know I mean it was I had some really dark thoughts some really really ugly thoughts and so you know God get me to that point where I can forgive them as you've forgiven me and I wish I could say it was instant it was a process of continually coming back to the cross coming back to Christ and I could just say this over a period of three years God healed me but it was a conviction of I need to forgive and so I'm gonna deal with my sin in this process because I can't deal with theirs right I can't I I can't you know um you know it just it just it just doesn't work so I need to deal with my sin in this process and and again what did I learn what I learned what I learned so that helped me but it was a three year process you know if I saw their picture on Instagram or somebody brought their name up I'd break into a sweat it just it was just terrible yeah right I'm actually curious you know as people maybe are starting to think the relationship like this those areas that maybe they've suppressed what are some good first steps to start waiting into processing the actual pain of some of that relational hurt yeah yeah don't ignore the emotion so like you're saying I broke into a sweat when I when I saw their picture many times we we just suppress that down we go now I'm fine that guy's just a jerk I'm not gonna you know do ignore the emotion find healthy people to talk about the things that you're scared to talk about because a lot of times when we start to talk about it it brings all those memories back it brings all the experience back and then now it's in the front of our awareness and we can now deal with it you know and bring it before the Lord and I think what you're saying passion matters involve God in it I've sat with so many people in Soul care where they tell me these just four horrific stories these very sad stories and it breaks my heart to watch what they've gone through and then when I ask him I say how how does the Lord walk with you in this and they kind of look astonished and go I haven't really brought that to the Lord hmm you know and in years years of pain yeah you know and and bring the Lord into that and just allow him to walk with you yeah and again that's why guys I've probably preached on John four more than any other passage in 20 years at sandals and you're gonna hear it again because we all just need to circle back to that well and circle back and just go back to those words you know John for one Jesus had to go through Samaria mm-hmm you know he stepped into the relational racial uncomfortable to meet us where we are in our woundedness and it didn't just bring healing in her life but her community is life so as you begin to process your relational baggage it doesn't just have positive impacts for you but for your kids you know my wife and I have talked about that so many times I've had to stop and say our kids don't have our issues mm-hmm because the Lord has helped us with our baggage so and that's a good thing you know that's a good thing and so you know we've been blessed in that and so it's just a miracle but you know a part of it is we don't know how to involve God in our lives so we don't know how to involve in our pain and again you know I know a lot of you listeners you never and this way drives me crazy some of you guys smoke we never did the question do the questions like if you want to change your life go to your community group this week and said we're gonna go through these questions we're gonna work through these questions and the reason you don't is because it's easier to talk about all the dumb stuff you did in your week rather than what God wanted to do in your life on the weekend the next thing you need to do is work through this the spiritual formation process at the end note most of our job at ninety percent or something to read that last paragraph on their notes and that is you and your time with God inviting him to the place where you are and you've got to do that and let me just tell you if you begin the process of doing that your life will change if you continue to do it on your own and exclude God from that process you're gonna be right where you are in 10 years yeah so I'm you know it's just so important that we all involve God invite God into our process cuz that's the thing about God is he doesn't force himself upon us we have to invite God so God right that's what an invocation is inviting God God be a part of us you don't know invocation is it's the prayer before the prayer before we begin our worship God we're inviting you to be a part of this process we're inviting you into our lives because God does not force himself so yeah if you guys want either of those if you're not normally with us and weekends you can find us on the sandals Church app in any of our note sections you'll see both of those discussion questions and that personal reflection god they're incredible so if you happen to throw away your notes after a weekend in person or you're not with us on the weekends check out the Sinister shop to get those they're incredible ok so we've got another question from Bethany she says I'm trying to let go of a friendship with Brett Ryan she know Bethany says I'm trying to let go of a friendship she's a Christian but has a lot of selfish tendencies I've talked to her about it before but she hasn't changed the friendship has only been increasingly hurting me so I've decided to let the friendship go quietly in hopes of not burning any bridges with her and our shared friendships am i doing the right thing and if so how can I allow myself to heal from this decision yeah I mean right there's loss so the first thing I would do is is double back make sure that you you know you've owned your contribution to this process you know uh I I think we often times and I uh pret and I have had to work through this we we and Brett's a professional even when we think we've been clear right we think we were clear but the person receiving it wasn't clear and so you know we've yeah we've had to work through you know just major major but like you need to say these words you know I'm not sure I want to continue this friendship if these things don't change I love you and I care about you and I would love you in my life but I can't go forward if this is where we're going to be and then you have to gauge are they are they at a place where they can even handle that and I think in just soda you know it's okay to have casual friendships we don't have to be deeply intimately involved with everyone we see it's okay to have just casual friends not every friend needs to be deep needs to be intimate needs to be 100% real like we're called to be kind to everyone we're called to be loving to everyone you know we're called to be good neighbors with everyone there are a selective group people that we walk with that care about us that love us that we love them and there's just a special unique thing and what I would say is this person is not there I think you're gonna grieve the loss you wish it was something better because there's probably some really great things about this person and you're like oh man if we could just work through this man it would be great but we can't work through this either because of your part or their part or both of your parts or whatever and you know sometimes friendships end you know I used to try to hang on to a lot of my friendships from my childhood and it takes to you know it takes it takes you got to have somebody on the other end and and I just had to let those go I mean so I don't go to my high school reunions anymore I just I just don't go I mean I worked at I tried to stay in contact I think that's important and yeah okay you know it takes two and when we've grown apart and we've grown other ways and so you know that that's what I would say is yes it's okay but you need to make sure that you've owned your part in that process because there could be something that you that's not allowing that person to be real and to be open don't be afraid to own your crap just don't it's so much easier to blame everybody else it's just so much easier than to then to look at your own stuff and say okay what have I done in this you know Tammy and I've never gotten in a fight where I'm just overwhelmed with my part in her hurt right we get in huge fights because we're both yelling at each other and we're both pointing out each other's flaws that that's where the fight is it's never because wow and I've I've ever really sinned against you babe I'm really sorry or she said you know honey I'm just really sorry that I did you know that those don't cause fights that actually usually brings about intimacy so you know that that's why it's so important you guys thoughts yeah I think what you're saying is so true and I think clear communication is key and what I found win being with people that don't hear me is I'll ask questions like I'm wondering you know would you just hear me say because it seems like you're reacting differently than I thought you would and then people will say something and it's not at all what I just yeah it's because there's in such an unhealthy place and so and then keep boundaries so a lot of us feel bad when we start to separate those unhealthy relationships and those feelings of sadness and loss and guilt it makes us go back to what we didn't want so hey we can't be friends anymore but then we see them and we feel bad gosh I might have hurt their feelings and so there we go hey let's hang out again and then it's just a repetitive cycle and so set boundaries and keep those boundaries if it's really unhealthy yeah absolutely and one of our most popular questions that we get you know every couple months is you know how do we do this with family members what if there's a family member who's hurt us who we need to cut out of our lives what does it look like to maintain those boundaries is it even okay to cut those people how do you do that one as a family member yeah absolutely of course it is you know sometimes it's our family members who've wounded us the most especially in the case where someone's been abusive someone's molested you it's not uncommon for the family to rally around the molester or the the person that's done the abuse because right families don't want to acknowledge that there's evil within the castle and so it's easier to isolate the victim many times than it is to deal with the perpetrator and so which is terrible because often times that person is molesting many many people and and I just think it's okay you know mom dad I would love to be at this family event however you know you guys have made the choice to invite this person and what that means is I won't be there so I love you and that's hurtful because your parents or your aunt's your uncle's or or whatever you know absolutely it's okay it's okay to honor your mother and father from afar mm-hmm right you can you know you can appreciate the gorillas from outside the cage you don't need to get in with the girl as it rips your arms off you know like oh why God does this keep happening well you've got in the cage with the gorillas yeah one thing I was just thinking about is sometimes the distance actually helps you honor or love someone better because you're not as close to the pain or whatnot so that stepping away can be better in the long run yeah absolutely so we all need to have healthy boundaries to end it agree yeah there's a great book I think I mention it every time by Cloudant Townsend it's called boundaries and everybody should read that because we don't have that and so many of the friendships and relationships that are supposed to fill us exhaust us mm-hmm and that's that's part of the whole Sabbath thing and you need to rest and go back to the week before the more rested you are the better decisions you're gonna make the better friendships you're gonna have the better intimacy you're gonna have the better parents you're gonna be so much of our relational sin goes right back to the principle that we don't Sabbath we don't stop and that's why male and female servants that's why hired hands foreigners live in among everybody arrests so everybody has yeah some space to better handle each other and the difficulties of life and and the the uniqueness of relationships and you know I mean even even the women amongst you it says so they get a break from cooking and care I'm doing all of those things in the ancient world so when we're in Israel everything is cooked and prepared on Friday and like there's no there's no there's no scrambled eggs on Saturday morning it's boiled eggs everything has been prepped and prepared not even know toasters are you do instant coffee is terrible but that should be a sin that's run like Lord surely we can have coffee surely Pastor Bret Ryan because you're an expert in dealing with the relational baggage I'm wondering if you could tell us what's the most painful relationship you've had to cut out of your life boundaries over here on earth she's not following over Brett slowly leaning further and further and further away from Justin exactly I'll follow you buddy I'll follow you okay we've got one last question coming in from Mila she says I have been struggling to get rid of some baggage my boyfriend and I have two years just broke up well she didn't say just broke up my boyfriend and I have two years broke up but I'm still in love with him we started off as friends and now he basically tries to avoid me and shows no concern for me at all he attends my campus and is in my community group and it hurts to see him I struggle every day questioning what I did because he refuses to have a conversation with me I pray everyday for him to change have a change of heart towards me or for my heart to find comfort in God's plan but I still can't see him to shake this pain yeah my first question is I wonder if you had sex with them mmm that's my first question so maybe that's not the question you want to hear but oftentimes when couples can't distance themselves from them what they've done is they've United physically and that's why they can't they can't move on and so again all you singles out there who think you know better and you think you know more than God about relationships who's existed for all eternity father son Holy Spirit right he he is an internal relational God that's who he is you think in your whatever you're 17 23 years of experience you know more than God God says emotional intimacy comes first then there's sexual intimacy after there's a public declaration hey we're gonna be together and we're gonna work this out so I I don't know that if you have or you haven't but here's what I would say get a new community group maybe go to new campus right you go to a church with how many campuses nine nine we got lots of we have nine campuses go to another campus get out of there you're torturing yourself but maybe you want to you know and so you know we don't know his side we don't know what's happened but what I would say is a lot of ladies man they think that being a victim or just just making themselves like what what do I need to be I mean that actually makes guys not attracted to you guys like the chase be a loose be strong go out on your own that makes you more appealing what what you know you want to make yourself unappealing be super needy and that's right what have I done wrong I just don't understand we need have this conversation the best way to get his attention is to ignore him and go your own way and be a strong independent woman because that's what guys find attractive you know that's that that's what they find attractive and I'm sorry that that hurts really you know in my diet I shared this weekend my girls were starting to date and that's what scares me to death is if these relationships don't work out I know their hearts will be damaged mmm it just happens I mean it hurts it does not feel good I don't think our our bodies were designed to fall in love and be rejected I just I don't think God made us that way I mean there's just you know for most of human history there was a courting process that was in place where you know usually you got the know on the front end mm-hmm so so the rejection was minimal and so you know you know you would say hey I have feelings for you I would I'm interested in courting you I would like nope so it's there's like one letter but there's not this entire relationship we've been together two years and and now I'm out that's just almost unheard of for most of human history and nowadays you know people and again it's just this whole idea that something better is available you know like my grandpa dated Flo because she was the only option in his down yeah he went with the flow you know right literally the only girl in this class of its grade you know they're married 71 years so I we think options are healthy and I think oftentimes it just it just hurts us man you know so I'll just be praying for you but just just know that man relationships hurt breakups hurt that's normal that's the process and you know I would be really concerned about you going back to him because if he's gonna do this once you know probably do it again so you know and again we don't have his side he didn't he submit a question hmm so but that's my concern for you but again now here's what's gonna happen is the wound from this guy the next guy is gonna inherit so that that's what that's what sucks about baggage is the guy that does love you the guy that is committed to you the guy that is faith he's gonna have to carry that bag that wound Intel you offer up to the Lord you feel those emotions yes this really hurt you know and unfortunately you probably friends I said get over it move on and well if you could you would yeah so what what you need right now is space space from him yeah that's huge I feel like yeah my number one thing I remember like a breakup I went through like when we like had the conversations hey I don't think it's working like I let them know like we're not going to be friends like you saying that you want to break up with me means we are not continuing this relationship as it is anymore at all so the whole attempt to be friends I feel like it's just such a it prolongs yeah things and it you need to give some consequence like if you're gonna break up with me you've broken up with me yeah and I'm no longer available to you it's healthier for you and I think it's healthier for them and it will help you as you before the next relationship so that if that person like if you're struggling it's not oh my gosh well this is just gonna end it's gonna drag on like that's like well like I when that person broke up with me like I do not like put up with that like we don't continue and I think that's yeah you can be cordial but you don't need to be in France and you know it just I mean that's just reality it makes you harder and it prolongs the pain it absolutely does so the best way to get over an issue is to get some distance and that may be what this guy's doing I mean maybe he's hurt we don't know his story you know I guess we're assuming he's the he's the wound or here but we don't know so definitely he's hurt your heart and and that breaks for us but again you know so so much of what were I think a lot of us are missing in the story is what is God trying to teach me and here's what God's trying to teach us we're gonna be okay with just me and Jesus in the wall mm-hmm and so I may have to sit there for a while maybe I'm not gonna be here that runs right back into the town but but when I'm wounded when I'm hurt when I'm rejected that's a great opportunity for me to go to the well and here's the good news Jesus is there and he will never leave me he will never forsake me and it's just sad that we run from the one dude that's faithful the one dude that's honest the one dude that's clear about what his objectives are I didn't come to judge you I came to save you yeah I've come to redeem you I've come I've come to buy you back that's God and and that's the one person we don't develop a relationship with and we don't invest in but that's the one person we need and so otherwise you can be like the woman who's married five times and you know I talked to this lady in our church Sunday we actually went to Israel together and I don't know her story and she came up to me she said you need to know my story pastor I was like what she said I haven't been married five times but I was married three times mm-hm and she said I realized what I needed was Jesus mmm she hasn't she hasn't come back to marriage she's been single for quite some time she's like that's where God's called me I need to heal I need to trust him I need to pursue him and her life is better mm-hmm her life is healthier you know she's involved in a lot of ministries for people on our church who were pursuing guy number six gallon number six you know and it just doesn't work it gives that initial rush in satisfaction at lose somebody likes me somebody loves me and you know sexual intimacy is great but not at the consequence of you know spiritual I'm say with sexual intimacy sexual intimacy outside of marriage cuts off spiritual intimacy with God it just does no other sin affects you the way that that does and so the one thing you need that deep intimate relationship we've got and again that's why I said there's four is as God is in the Bible so John 1 got his light first John got its love Hebrews I forget what chapter it is I think it's 11 or 12 our God is a consuming fire and then this one god is spirit and so what I think Jesus is saying is he's not a man stop worshipping dudes hmm because that idols gonna punish you for the rest of your life and you know just again stop in being somebody else's life somebody you know somebody else's friendship whatever somebody else has on Instagram you know and start pursuing your relationship with Jesus and here's the thing if you're at the well long enough with Jesus somebody else who loves them is gonna show up the 12 disciples show up and so that you know those guys are idiots but they're healthier idiots than anyone else right and so that's the thing is is we don't want to wait we don't want to be patient and and Trust and the truth is many of us are not ready for a good friend we're not ready for a spouse a boyfriend we're not mature enough because the people that are going to accept us where we're at where we're at are not where we want to be and and that's where a lot of marriages I think fail is we select what's available now right rather than waiting and that's the difference between fast food and a great restaurant you know I love my favorite thing to eat is a scratch kitchen you know what that is mmm so most people don't know this but almost every restaurant you go to now it's all microwaved it's all frozen none of its fresh I don't care where you go you know everything is cinco or American food at Cisco American foods nothing is fresh and so a scratch kitchen is they boiled the potatoes they whipped the they they everything was made all all the sauces and seasonings and the meat is not frozen and it's just wonderful that takes a little time and it costs a little more money but it's worth it and and something you know some people just have to have a relationship and that's part of your brokenness and so that's what's her brokenness she thought she had to have a man to be happy and it actually made her life hell mm-hmm to the point where nobody will marry her and that and that's what you know makes I think just for the record we're talking about the lady in the Bible not you know yeah story in John form yes well what I love about her story too is after she encounters Jesus she goes back to her community back to all the people that are around her not it doesn't talk I'm sure she eventually I steal that dude she's living but it's not oh she went back to dude she's living with and they had a great relationship she went back to her community and all of a sudden had a whole group of people rallying around her following Jesus with her so as you're processing this like get into community like don't feel like you need to run back and solve this one relationship when you could instead go back to your community and really get a bunch of people rallied around you too so you're not yeah so I think I think the sin that we commit and this is why you know the Ten Commandments are so important we violate the first thou shall have no other gods above me and for a lot of us our God is her boyfriend or girlfriend a relationship our best friend and so we keep going back to that God wondering why the one true God doesn't bless us and he's like you're worshiping the wrong thing mm-hmm and God's not gonna bless that you know he doesn't bless partial obedience he does he blesses obedience and when we have him as God and we worship Him our life is blessed and we need to do that and so that's a thing is right everybody everybody wants you know healing but they only want partial surgery or they you know they want to not finish their medication look if you want to get well go to the well and say God you know I mean I've got a lot I've got a lot of stuff here that I need to learn I've got a lot of issues and we all do we all have a lot of issues but why why is it Lord that I keep running to this you know that was so helpful to me as a young man with my issues of porn why do I keep turning to this why do I keep running to this well it's your God and and so I need to run to my God the one true God who loved me and cinesín son to die for me on the cross and when I ran to him my understanding of how to treat women was different how I viewed my wife was different everything changed again if you want right relationships with people you need a right relationship with God the assumption is that my relationship is right with God and so part of that is just our confusion as evangelicals and what I mean by that's non-catholics about justification about sanctification about all that processes you know I've heard one of my favorite pastors yeah locally every time he says the word justified means just as if I'd never sinned and I just cringe every time he says that because what you're communicating to people is that we don't have sin we do and it's ugly and it manifests itself in every area of life and we need to deal with that and the way we deal with that is we run we run to the well and we meet Jesus and we let him deal with our shame with our fear with you know think of whatever your inia gram number is we got to run to God with that with my gluttony with my anger you know with my you know my need to avoid pain right and so like if you're a seven the last place you to be is that that that well right you're just not interested in that that that's hurtful and that's painful but that's where healing is that's where the truryde is the true joy is is in that place and just just trust that that all healing right Jesus Christ is our healer we've got a run to him but man I've had I've had eight knee surgeries Alfredo and I the campus pastor at Palm we're actually talking and he actually did something stupid like you where you did that swing and you fell and broke both your wrists uh-huh he did something similar but he fell and he snapped his forearm I don't know what bone it is that goes from your shoulder to your elbow he broke that bone and he broke his elbow on a swing like what you did him we were talking and he said yeah yeah I had this this Indian doctor at Kaiser and I said was a rush you I have a personal relationship with Raju and it's a painful relationship because dr. Raj you had to do some very painful surgeries on me to fix my knee and and and and a lot of people you know they won't they won't fix their knee because it hurts and that's a painful process too walking right but you want to walk right you got to go through the pain and that's the thing as we want we want the healing without that work that that pain that that hurt and so that's why I believe Jesus says to the man at the well do you want to get well it's gonna be hurtful are you sure you want that and a lot of people don't understand that but when you're crippled you didn't have to work you begged you lived off the work of other people are you sure you sure you want your career to be over sitting here and moaning and acting like you know is that what you want boom and then he's well but there's a painful process now I've gotta learn to support myself I'm a grown man I don't have a career right there's there's a lot of things there that we need to deal with and so I just guys I get I get so frustrated you know with our church because for so many of us being real as a slogan and it needs to be a way of life and this is with staff members pastors people that have been a part of our church be real with yourself God helped me not to deceive myself let me understand that truth got what am I missing here because we're all missing a lot and you're gonna have such a better life if you can see yourself clearly you will begin to see others clearly and you'll learn how to choose friends you'll learn how you know like early on in my life I would pick friends who were like me I can't stand people were like me you know Lester on the intagram I love hanging out with fives because they don't talk at all they let me talk and then when I'm done talking it's just quiet it's wonderful you know so that that's just the way that it is and so you know you you got to do that because one map rounds a lot to handle so and I can't even handle him on my own so but I had to I had to do real business with myself and be like okay I'm initially I'm drawn to people like me you know that are like the Tasmanian Devil right it just like but that's exhausting and so I can't always be that way so I've got to give myself time to heal to rest to hang out and and you got to do that so just again be real be real be real be real with yourself there your bags there your bags and you know you can't take them with you to heaven if you do right there's a whole way in station hey Justin well you gotta yeah u-haul here buddy what are we gonna do with that right so we got we got to deal with them now and and and we all have it we all have it so any thoughts PRD I want to get some from Pastor Brett I think we should like dive deep into your well of relational baggage insight before we part ways with our wonderful family for the week yeah I test man I think you're just right on the money with that be real with self like that you know that's one things I just absolutely love about sandals but there was something you told us as the pastors as you as kind of Mentor us and help us is that we have to be really safe but we gotta have an awareness of where other people are at when they're telling us certain things and you know sometimes what we do is we think others have it all together and we're the only messed-up went in the room right and so we look at a relationship that's ended and we go well he's doing great I'm the one that's messed up I I'm the one that I did something wrong that's why he's not talk to me but maybe he just sucks at ending relationships yeah maybe he has his own crap that he's going through and no one's calling him on it and so he's avoiding it and I think a lot of times in life we do this with relationships we do this especially at work relationships if someone comes in they look unhappy and what do we automatically do what'd I do yeah did I miss something I miss an email you know for our spouses you know did I say something what do you know all of us guys would kind of do that like Fivefinger chat they do this okay but other people have baggage they have crap that they're working through and we don't say that we're going to show those children who listen in the car yeah they have difficulties that they deal with yeah they have things they deal with right just get me past that settle yours I was gonna say pest Matt said but I'm gonna take the direction do you know because I have stuff you know but but we all have stuff and and what others are dealing with 90% of the time have nothing to do with us yeah and so if we can be real with ourselves we can have that honest check of man he's not talking to me anymore but I'm right with God I'm right with my community maybe he's just going through it so I'm just gonna pray for him and I'm gonna keep moving forward and so we got to stop allowing others and their baggage to dictate who we are in Christ and who we are for ourselves yeah yeah that's the big lesson for Tammy and I we had a big talk and we're in Louisville two years ago and if I could go back and talk to 27 year old Matt Brown he planted sandals Church I would say lean on God and love people what I did is I leaned on people and thought I could just you know love God and I was like whoa I got a lean lean lean on him because he's he's stable and and man weren't you know sandals isn't built on people it's built on Jesus and he's stable it's his church and people come and they go and they say they're gonna do this and they like Jesus whenever he says I'm gonna do something he always does it and he always comes through and so I need to understand what has he said he's going to do and I need but but the only way I do that is by getting to know him at the well and so again man there's so much in that story that's so good he says use Samaritans know very little about the one you worship what is easy you don't know God at all you don't have a clue yep Jews are idiots but they know a little more than you do and so a lot of us mana I see this all the time because I'm so angry at God that's because you know very little about the one that you worship it's not God who screwed up it's not God who's failed it's not God who didn't come through right God is faithful he is and-and-and-and and if we're angry with God it's because we've misunderstood a promise so what we think is gods are Genii and he just shows up and fixes everything in our life no that's what an unhealthy mom does mm-hmm right and then healthy mom blocks everything so that you don't ever have to deal with consequence but we grow through consequence we grow through suffering and I think about the most painful breakup I've been through in my life was with a personal friend it was the most helpful experiencing in my life for being a leader and I just hurt so bad but it helped me to realize that you know I had not shared things and and here's why most people are a mess cuz nobody ever tells them the truth people are terrified terrified nobody's ever said literally my wife was the first person when I was 26 years old I said why does everyone in the world think I'm awesome but you and what she said was no one knows the real you but me but that's partially true but really what's true is no one was willing to speak the truth like she was because no one was invested in me like people people didn't like me people I was always a very polarizing figure you know and if you're not careful you end up Donald Trump yeah he does some great things but man the guy is clueless to how he's received but his you know it just it makes me sad and think about how much better the world would be if he was more self-aware mm-hmm well even if you're a Republican the world's a bit the world is a much better place if he's a more self-aware person of how people receive him so that's just the thing all of us right you know we have that part of our personality that's just so offensive and so unhealthy and so not reliable and according to the India Graham you know there's reasons why you do what you do you're afraid you want to avoid you want to maintain Clutton you know you I mean there's right there there's all kinds of reasons for why we do what we do but ultimately if we come to the well and we surrender to Jesus man we're gonna be a much healthier person and here's what I would say bring your baggage to Jesus bring it to Jesus there's probably not a day in my life where I don't say God here here and unfortunately oftentimes it's the same package lord I thought I gave it to you on Tuesday but here it is a kitten here it is Lord and just keep giving it to him because it weighs you down it slows you down Hebrews 12:1 and 2 therefore since we're surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses let us lay aside every sin that so easily entangles us write or everything is so easily entangles especially the sin that slows us down whoa right that's two believers that's two Christians and so we all have that we all have baggage we all have hurt and you know the church is a beautiful place when we all recognize what a wreck I am think about how worships different think about how different the sermon is when we all come with an assumption you know the the sermon on Sabbath I don't know if you guys heard our pastor sermon I wrecked me man it wrecked me because I do not Sabbath well mm-hmm i I that's it that's not even a true I am very sinful when it comes to Sabbath I do not stop and so in a lot my Sabbath is on Fridays and I do a lot of my hospital visits and my makeups on Fridays mm-hmm right so that's God's day so imagine like if we treated our children in the way that we treat God hey on on on Friday brat um it's mean you but then on Friday I scheduled an appointed now it's what I do to God mm-hm and so here's the thing that's so crazy as Christians think God understands and he doesn't you're sinning against me and it ticks God off and it makes you worse it makes you worse to stop you know we're we're so convinced that the American ways the way it's not the way it's not stop stop stop stop stop stop that way you can work six days you know so so that that was for me and and my fatigue leads directly to my relational baggage mm-hmm I am not the husband I need to be when I'm not rested I am NOT the father I need to be when I'm not rested I'm not the pastor I need to be when I'm not rested III carry more bags when there's bags under my eyes I just do and right so these things all work together they all work together you know it's interesting when you look at the Ten Commandments the principle of the Sabbath comes before how you treat other people mmm it's the fourth commandment before we ever get to don't commit adultery don't lie don't cheat don't steal don't covet like it comes before that and that's why we need God because we're more likely to do the right thing when we're rested well we want to help you continue to deal with your relational baggage pastor man so thank you for the rest of the series we're gonna have resident expert on staff pastor Brett Ryan extraordinaire continue to join us for the baggage series listen you're gonna start to become a friend of the show here so before we close let's just go around the table really quick and each share one fun fact about Brett Ryan extraordinaire ready Stephanie fun fact oh I got over a 100 he is the most hilarious snowboarder I've ever snowboarder with so he's old he's a little like he is his crazy button is like I like comes out snowboarding I actually saw him fall off a chairlift land headfirst into the snow and I thought he was dead it's true thank God your feet were wiggling it was so bad like if you're ever on a been on a ski lift and you wonder why it stopped for so long Bret Ryan it's now it's probably yeah yeah you're so fun dude I had more fun watching you crash than I did snowboarding hmm it was more fun it was a blast that has to say about him uh you're a huge hockey fan big fan of the index okay I say LA Kings LA Kings Kings fan Ontario rain loves them up as well alrighty guys great show some more baggage is gonna be continued to dealt with for two more weeks that's right before we get to that 40 days of faith we want to have you guys keep coming in what what kind of what are we talking about next week if people want to send in their questions in there anger and they were wrapping this up with shame so you are struggling in any of those areas please please please send in your questions we'd love to get them on the show mm-hmm my shame a shame makes me angry okay it's not real and yeah I'll just send it all my own questions and make up fake names with them yeah how these questions are coming in for Bret Ryan just yeah yeah Burnie have a great week everyone love you and we'll see you in the future the future is now [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] you [Music]

Channel: The Debrief Show

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Id: cRU8YygTFPg

Length: 67min 44sec (4064 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 21 2018