Ep 100 | Catholicism vs. The Bible with Mike Gendron | Redeeming Truth

[Music] well hello everyone and thank you for joining us for this episode of the redeeming truth podcast my name is Kyle I get to be one of the pastors at Redeemer and host of this podcast and I'm joined in studio uh with John benzinger who is the lead Pastor here at Redeemer Bible Church and the main kind of content Drive behind this podcast we're so thankful for him John this is a special episode it really is a special episode this is episode 100 episode 100 we've been at this for a couple years now kind of off and on in our consistency but uh what we wanted to do in driving this podcast was not simply just have a podcast come out every week just to have a podcast uh but to have episodes that were important in addressing issues for our local congregation and issues we would hope would be helpful for anyone who would listen in uh and for this episode we are excited because uh the drive behind redeeming truth is found in the title we want to redeem the truth of God's word from a world that is trying to change terminology and alter the meaning of Truth uh and joining us for this episode we have uh Mike Gendron who has dedicated his ministry and and career really to that very purpose and so uh Mike Gendron thank you so much for joining us here at the redeeming truth podcast well it's really my joy and a great privilege to be with you to redeem the truth of God's word especially in the mission field that represents the Roman Catholic religion yeah when I think of a body of people a body a group that has sought to obscure the truth and even deny the truth for as for the longest length of time I can't think of another group that does that quite like the Catholic church and so for us we really want to make sure that our that our church is equipped to reach their their um Catholic friends and family and so this is why I mean even for episode 100 it's like let's bring Mike on to do this because it is that important to us that we see Catholicism that we have the kind of heart for Catholics that you do a heart of love and compassion and a heart to say how can we share the true gospel with them now Mike let me introduce you a little bit I want to let people know if if you're not familiar with Mike's Ministry it's called proclaiming The Gospel and you can find the website at proclaimingthegospel.org I just want to read your mission statement and then kind of let you open up with a statement about it and where that came from but it's really clear straightforward it just says this we desire to equip and encourage the body of Christ to faithfully and effectively share the Glorious gospel of Christ God gives every Christian the privilege and awesome responsibility of glorifying him by proclaiming the greatest news anyone will ever hear about the greatest Gift Anyone could ever receive we recognize there is no higher calling than being ambassadors for the king of kings and taking his message to a lost and Dying World now here's where I think the ministry gets specific and very unique the heart of PR of the proclaiming the gospel Ministry is driven by our deep compassion and I would underline that deep compassion for Roman Catholics who who are and were once or who I'm sorry who are where we once were deceived and not even aware of it only when they are lovingly confronted with the truth of God's word can they be set free from the bondage of religious deception I think that's a wonderful kind of nutshell but why don't you give us a little bit of your background and and story on on how this ministry came about and just like you said who Roman Catholics who are where we once were deceived and yet not even aware of it well sure Kyle the very nature of deception is that people do not know they're deceived until they are confronted with the truth and I was in the Roman Catholic religion for over 35 years and since I never opened a Bible I never was confronted with the truth I thought I belonged to the one true church and if I was faithful to my religion that the church would eventually get me to Heaven albeit through a detour in purgatory and and so for 35 years I was just a very devout Catholic I was an altar boy for seven years and I taught high school Catholic Christian doctrine later on I was responsible for bringing the scripture study to a Dallas Catholic Church in 1981 they were losing a lot of people to Evangelical Bible studies so they decided to start a Bible study of Their Own well that's when I began reading the Bible and as I read the Bible I really was confronted with the truth and it caused me to have a crisis of Faith because what I was reading about God's Plan of Salvation was diametrically opposed to what the Catholic church had taught me and so I was at the end of myself not knowing who to trust because being so faithful to My Religion my family was devout I had a uncle that was a priest and so I did the wrong thing I called up my uncle the priest and I said why does the bible teach a different way of Salvation than the Catholic Church and they said well that's not true give me an example and so I shared Ephesians 2 8-9 that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ it's not of ourselves it's the gift of God not of work so that no man May boast and he responded Mike my God doesn't really mean what he's saying there and I thought wow how can a priest know what God really means and so I continue to read the Bible and there is no way to reconcile the word of God and the teachings of the Catholic church and I just cried out to the Lord he granted me repentance he gave me eyes to see the glory of Christ and the light of the gospel and I was no longer blinded by religious deception and it's the chains came off and I got up and I started following Christ and it literally turned my life upside down I I found myself in a Bible study every morning of the week before I went to work and I just couldn't get enough of God's word I was like a dry sponge in the desert just trying to absorb everything that I've done without for so many years and about four years into that I realized that the only way to really Purge myself of all the doctrinal error that I grew up with was to go to Seminary and to learn the Bible and so I left my corporate job and enrolled in seminary and it was at the I guess three years later my last semester that I was introduced to a video called Catholicism crisis of faith and that's a video that shows Roman Catholic priests and nuns reaching back into the Catholic Church to share the gospel with them and my wife and I watched it together and we were so compelled to start sharing this with every Roman Catholic we knew so every Tuesday night we would invite them over and we'd share the video my wife would fix dessert we'd answer questions and within three months 17 Roman Catholics exchanged their religion for relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and I must tell you that not everybody left our home happy and full of joy some were so angry that they slammed the door and we lost a few relationships but you know in the end we had 17 new babes in Christ so what do you do you invite them back over on Wednesday night to help them grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and and so that was really the Genesis of what we're doing today 32 years later we uh have traveled around the world several times mainly in countries dominated by Roman Catholicism I've had the privilege to equip the body of Christ in many different churches and seminaries around the world and the Master's Academy International has had me in and so it's just really been a an amazing journey we we stand in awe of what God has done with a couple of Broken Vessels it's an incredible story um and it is something that we we hope that God will continue to use you to do and even use you to equip people in our church to do and so when it when it comes to what you said salvation can you kind of can you describe what you said about this isn't what I was taught what I read in the Bible and contrast that again more specifically with what you read in the Bible well sure the Roman Catholic religion has taught at least for 500 years that you are saved by grace plus Merit Faith plus Works Christ plus other mediators and it's according to scripture plus tradition and so the reformers in the 16th century they recognized after reading the Bible that this was wrong and they studied the Bible and that's why the five Solas are so important to the gospel today they realize that the Catholic church was wrong that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone and Christ Alone according to scripture alone and all the glory goes to the Triune God and so that's the major difference in the gospel of the Roman Catholic Gospel is actually under Divine condemnation because we see in Galatians 1 verses 6 to 9 Paul said if anyone adds anything or distorts the gospel they are to be anathema turned over to God for Destruction and the judaizers only added one requirement you had to be circumcised if you were a gentile and believed the death burial and resurrection of Christ and so when you look at the Catholic Gospel they've added many more requirements you have to be baptized that's the initial sacrament of regeneration and justification and after baptism then you have to do good works you have to do good works in order to be justified in fact Catholics when they commit a mortal sin they're de-justified and they can only be re-justified by doing good works and receiving sacraments so Catholics need the sacraments they need good works they also have to obey the law and of course that places them under a curse as we see in Galatians 3 because nobody can obey the law perfectly as James shares in James chapter 2 if you keep the whole law perfectly and stumble at one part you're guilty of breaking the whole law and so all these requirements have been added to the gospel of grace so the Catholic religion that teaches this gospel is under Divine curse and and that's why Roman Catholics need to hear the true gospel that Christ is the self-sufficient savior that he did finish the work of redemption that the sacrifice of the mass is a Blasphemous representation of the Eucharistic Christ on an altar and so it's a different gospel and the gospel is so simple but man comes along you know the whole nature of religion is they want to control people it doesn't matter what religion it is and so they add all these requirements to the gospel of grace and hold people in religious bondage and religious deception so when it comes to a Catholic would respond to that by saying but James talks about faith without works being dead uh Romans 2 6 and 7 would say that if you continue in good works you'll have eternal life if you do the will of God Matthew 7 21 to 23 you'll be saved and so so how did they respond when you say that to them well of course as you know John we have to interpret the word of God accurately and in James chapter 2 James is not showing up person how they can be saved he's contrasting two different types of Faith he's contrasting god-given faith that produces Fruit versus spurious faith that is dead faith that doesn't produce anything and so the best way to describe what James is doing is if you look at Faith being the root if the root is alive it will produce fruit but if the root which is Faith is dead then there'll be no fruit and so James is simply saying true Living Faith granted by God as a gift will produce Faith to those who receive it and those who do not have a spurious faith and there'll be no evidence of a changed life you see in Matthew 7 I think you brought up Jesus said many will call me Lord Lord but on the last day he will say depart from me he never knew them and even though they're calling him Lord they're boasting in what they were doing in his name rather than trusting what Christ had done so there you see Works righteousness will not save anyone and then you also say they never departed from iniquity so there was no repentance so the only way to be saved is to repent and believe the true Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ amen amen it when when it comes to evangelizing Catholics though they're gonna they're gonna push against salvation by grace alone through faith alone In Christ Alone um can you talk about the grace alone aspect versus the Merit aspect of salvation well sure we know from reading the Bible that Grace is the unmerited favor of God it's given freely as a gift as we see in Ephesians 2. Catholicism redefines a lot of biblical terms paragraph 2027 of the catechism of the Catholic Church states that they must Merit The Graces necessary for salvation well how do you Merit the unmerited favor of God and so every Roman Catholic will tell you that they're saved by grace through faith in Jesus that's why the word alone is so important it's Grace apart from works and Merit it's Faith apart from works and it's Christ Alone he is the all-sufficient savior if anyone adds anything to the perfect finished all sufficient work of Christ they're not only insulting the Savior but they're also nullifying God's grace Paul mate are very clear in Romans 11 6 if it is by Grace it is not of Works otherwise Grace is not Grace and so Satan knows this that's why every religion in the world teaches a Works righteousness salvation because Satan knows if you add Works to Grace it nullifies the only means by which God Saves Sinners Aroma Catholicism is no different in that respect than any other religion in the world it is a Works righteousness salvation so one more question Kyle um so we've talked about faith and instead of works for salvation we've talked about Grace instead of Merit now let's talk about Christ and instead of other mediators so when it comes to the contrast between biblical faith and Roman Catholicism why does it have to be Christ Alone well for several reasons uh John and in John's gospel chapter 14 verse 6 Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father except through me he is the only way for those who are lost he is the truth for those who are deceived and he's the very life of those who are dead in their sin Jesus is the only Savior and Paul made that clear in first Timothy 2 5 he said there is one mediator between God and man the man Christ Jesus he is God's perfect man and man's perfect God no one else is qualified because the role of a mediator is to come between two warring parties our relationship with God before Christ was one of enmity and hostility but through the mediation of Jesus Christ he changed that relationship to peace and Harmony we also see in Peter's first sermon in Acts chapter four he he talks about there's no other name given among men by which we are to be saved and the name of Jesus Christ is The Only Name by which anyone can be saved if only Roman Catholics would look to who they believe is their first pope and believe Peter and his Epistles they would be set free from religious deception Mike I want to ask a a question just from kind of a a personal history I don't have any history with the Catholic church in my background but I have a friend from youth who was um pulled kind of out of the Catholic Church by a Bible study and and by coming to a Bible teaching church and then was pulled back into the Roman Catholic Church uh through being convinced that the Catholic church had a more robust and consistent history of Faith um and you know I I think that there is a brilliant deception going on right when when you want to deceive people into thinking you're the best you know you you bought you or maybe say the most successful businessman you buy the best car and wear the best suit and have the biggest house and people will begin to believe you know the the uh the story you're telling and so I'm looking here at the New World Encyclopedia about Catholicism Roman Catholicism and at first glance you would say okay this is a Christian church because they believe in Jesus Christ they have this history back to the apostles there's all these people throughout history who've affirmed all of these these things that that we're saying we have unbroken Fellowship this is what I heard from from my friend uh two thousand years of uninterrupted worship and fellowship um and then you know a very robust explanations of all of the things that they practice and the reasons they practice them um I don't know really what to ask here other than than you know when you encounter somebody who pushes back in those ways you know uh Hey the the you know the the um the Reformation came about as a rebellion and it just started 500 years ago um you know disenfranchised people so you you know your tradition is actually breaking from True tradition um what would you say to somebody who argues back against uh what you're preaching with with that well I'm gonna trust this giant organization that's been around for thousands of years rather than your word about what the Bible says yeah Kyle that's really a good question and it's really one of the drawing cards to really influence evangelicals and Protestants to return home to Rome as they call it and we have to look at church history Through The Eyes of scripture through the lens of scripture we can see two streams of Christianity operating side by side now for two thousand years you have the Apostolic Church the Lord Jesus is the only Builder and head of that church and he promised that the Gates of Hell shall not Prevail against his church the True Church of Jesus Christ is made up of born-again Christians who are in Christ and Sanctified by the truth of God's word we see in First Corinthians 12 13 that we are baptized by one spirit and to one body that is the Church of Jesus Christ so it's a it's a sovereign work of the holy spirit that draws people out of the world into the Lord's church as they are Sanctified by the truth of his word now the other stream of Christianity that's been operating side by side for 2000 years is the apostate church and it's made up of churches and denominations and individuals who have departed from the true church or departed from the faith of the Apostles and this shouldn't surprise us because in first Timothy 4 1 Paul said in latter times some will depart from the faith and follow doctrines of demons well the fingerprints are on the Roman Catholic church because he goes on to describe one of the doctrines of demons and that is forbidding people to marry there's another doctrine of demons that the Roman Catholic Church upholds to and that's the first lie the devil in the garden you remember when in Genesis 3 4 Satan told Eve you surely shall not die if you break God's command well the Roman Catholic Church perpetuates that lie with its doctrine of venial sin the Catholic churches teaches that there's two classifications of sin there's venial sin which are lesser sins that do not cause death and then there's mortal sin such as murder or adultery or even missing church on Sunday and so when you look at the doctrine of venial sins it doesn't cause Eternal death and hell but only temporal punishment in this fictitious place called Purgatory you see when you create one line a lie of Angel sin saying that you won't go to hell if you die in that state you need a place to send people to have that Temple punishment paid so they created Purgatory well now you need a place not only a place for these people to go but now you need a method or a means to get them out and so they created another lie called indulgences and indulgences is the remission of temporal punishment for sin that was one of the Sparks of the Reformation you cannot purchase God's forgiveness with money and so you can see this Trilogy of deception I call it venial sins the first lie the devil you surely shall not die Purgatory where you go to have temporal punishment paid and then indulgences to get people out and so clearly the Roman Catholic Church departed from the apostolic faith into an apostate form of religion and they're not the only apostate church as we know there are Protestant denominations that have followed suit as well but we need to recognize that the apostasy started in the first century of First John 2 19 John said they went out from us because they were not part of us had they been part of us they would have remained with us so that was the first apostasy 2000 years ago in the Roman Catholic Church step by step over the first 400 years started drifting into apostasy and then officially and dogmatically it departed from the faith of the Council of Trent where it issued over 100 anathemas for those who believe the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and those who believe that were justified by faith apart from work so Born Again Christians are under anathema by the Roman Catholic religion they are officially apostate 500 years ago and they continue to drift that way following more doctrines of demons so a long answer to your question but we need to point Catholics to First Timothy 4 1 that there will be an apostate church and the fingerprints are on the Roman Catholic religion now speaking to that a little bit more on this same page of the New World Encyclopedia there's a category that says the church as mediator and I just want to read a section of this and kind of Flesh this out a little bit more because you began by talking about Ephesians 2 8 9 and recognizing that salvation is by grace alone and and this is where some language can be confusing I think for some Catholics and for those who are trying to figure this out uh it says the church has five meanings the Gathering of the baptized that's an interesting one I'd like to kind of touch on that a gathering of those of the local community uh all the baptized throughout the world all the Catholics throughout the world and the building where Catholics or Christians gather for worship and they clarify when we say Catholics you know we mean that the the church Universal uh when we say that the church is the mediator between God and Humanity they mean that these gatherings of the Catholics are the bridge between God and the individuals in the church Community as well as the church community and others certainly Jesus is the mediator between us and the father indeed with all Christians Catholics say salvation comes to people through the grace of God but I'll underline that they emphasize the principle role the church plays in mediating that Grace to people through the sacraments and so you can even see how the the language is presenting itself uh and and whoever wrote this article is presenting itself as a an Orthodox Christian church but the slight deceptions being yeah the grace of God is available to you but only through the Roman Catholic Church mediating it through the sacraments right can you can you talk about that a little bit and and that deception and how that flips the gospel on its head yeah that describes the Catholic Church very well the Roman Catholics are utterly dependent upon their priest they are a mediator of God's grace and it starts off with priests have to baptize Roman Catholics for regeneration and justification and after that the priest hears their confession and absolves their sin after they do Penance and then the priest offers the body and blood of Jesus in the Eucharist and that's literally the body and blood of Jesus Through The Miracle of transubstantiation and then it's the priest who imparts the Holy Spirit during the Sacrament of Confirmation it's also the priest that gives last rights to Catholics on their deathbed but even after a Catholic dies they're still utterly dependent upon their priesthood because it's the priest who will then offer the sacrifice of the mass to get them out of purgatory more expeditiously but he refuses to do so unless indulgences are purchased and so normally what happens is the family of the deceased will go to the priest and purchase Mass cards they'll put the name of their Catholic loved one on the mass card return it to the priest with a stipend of money or an offering and the priest will lay it on the Altar and the mass the sacrifice of the Eucharistic Christ is supposed to reduce time and Purgatory for the name of the person on the card and so no priest can tell the Catholic Family how many masses must be said and so Catholics are in bondage to religious deception not only in this life but also in the next life because they're still utterly dependent upon the priesthood but I need to also share with you that it's not only the priests that Roman Catholics are dependent upon they're also dependent upon Mary because in paragraph 494 the catechism of the Catholic Church it says that without a single sin to restrainer she became the cause of salvation for herself and the whole human race and as mediatrics she did not lay aside the saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of Eternal salvation and so Catholics believe that the grace of God must flow through the hands of Mary through the priest into the sacraments and then the Catholic will receive Saving Grace so it's a very complex system but it's not biblical as we know there's only one mediator and that's the Lord Jesus Christ well last question kind of in this my segment here you you mentioned purgatory and indulgences uh you mentioned even prayers to Saints or or to marry directly when you were here several months ago you you uh clarified for us in a q a and in a teaching session in one of our classes the source of those doctrines for the Roman Catholic church we say they're unbiblical but where do you where does the church find those and justify their teaching on those and can you clarify that for the listeners well sure most of them are as a result of twisting and distorting scripture and Peter said anyone that does that it's to their own destruction the Roman Catholic religion teaches that there's three authorities one of them is sacred scripture another is sacred tradition and then you have the magisterium of the church which is made up of Roman Catholic Bishops they are said to be the only valid interpreter of God's word and so even though they say these three authorities are equal it's the Bishops that sit above scripture and tradition and they twist into store scripture so that it conforms to their ungodly tradition and so one of the ways that we see this happening is through extra biblical revelation we see that nowhere in the Bible do we see that Mary was sinless and yet the Catholic Church calls her a sinless comediatrics nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary was a Perpetual virgin but yet in 1850 they pronounced her Immaculate Conception and then some Catholics began asking questions well if Mary he was conceived without sin and never committed a sin and sin is what causes death then wears Mary and so in 1950 they had to come up with another infallible Dogma declaring that Mary's body was miraculously assumed into heaven so Catholics will tell you these are not found in the Bible they're extra biblical Revelations through apparitions but the source of these ungodly Traditions are found both twisting and distorting scripture as well as from outside the Bible Mike did you say that that Catholic theology of Mary came from apparitions can you flesh that out please well yeah there's uh apparitions uh appearing as Mary in many places throughout the world more and more frequently some of the most popular places are Lords and Fatima but uh it's really interesting because these apparitions are bringing messages that are contrary to the Bible and John in first John 4 1 exhorts us to test every spirit and so anyone that tests these apparitions would know that they're not really married because she's bringing a message inconsistent with the truth of the Bible but it's these apparitions that have convinced people that it's truly Mary and she's bringing extra biblical revelation it's really interesting because we know in the end times that the world will be deceived by lying signs and wonders even the elect if possible Jesus said and I really believe since these apparitions are appearing as Mary in places where Muslims respect in fact Fatima in Portugal a city named after Muhammad's first daughter Muslims are now flocking to that Apparition site to get messages from Mary and so we can see that she's coming for all of her children that's what The Apparition says and we can see that how Satan may use this to bring Unity to all the people on Earth as they all come and are deceived by these apparitions so as I Was preparing for this interview I was doing research on their view of Mary and it that one guy one priest described it as uh it's just like having a picture of a deceased loved one on your wall that's all that's all we're doing with Mary or the other Saints but if I mean that they don't have the biblical Mary so it's not even that we're remembering the biblical Mary in some way they it really is idolatry what they're doing with Mary it really is um they say they don't worship Mary they only venerate her but then if you look up venerate in the dictionary it says to worship they really they've really given Mary a lot of the attributes of God Only God Can Hear prayers only God can answer prayers but Roman Catholics through their praying of the Rosary which is another form of an Indulgence they will pray 53 repetitious prayers to Mary now we know that from Deuteronomy 18 that's an Abomination to God that we're not to pray or consult the dead and so Roman Catholics need to be aware that God is the only one that can hear and answer prayers and what we do is we challenge Roman Catholics show me in the Bible where any God-fearing man prays to anyone other than almighty God see we want to get him into the word so challenge them show me I've even said so much as if you sh if you can find one God-fearing man praying to anyone other than God I'll join the Catholic Church but they just won't find it because only God is the only one that we pray to well it seems inconsistent to me even just in in the discussion that we've had uh that they wouldn't worship Mary if she was sinless assumed into heaven hears prayers um is the co-mediatrics uh is in a sense assumed the office of mediator and savior in her body why would she not be worship why wouldn't they just come out and say let's worship Mary well the previous Pope John Paul II before Pope Benedict he actually tried to elevate to an infallible Dogma the co-redemptorics of Mary but some of the Cardinals discouraged the pope from going forward with that because they said it would discourage The ecumenical movement so Pope John Paul decided The ecumenical movement is much more important let's gather all professing Christians under the power and influence of the papacy and then we can convince them once they're back into the one tree church as they believe it to be fascinating well we'll come back to that because that is uh yeah really significant for Evangelical Christianity today but I want to ask you about tradition and the Canon and so you've got passages second Thessalonians 2 15 First Corinthians 11 2 which talk about tradition Catholics want to put everything that they believe that you were saying before the the Traditions into that so help me help us understand what do Catholics mean by tradition and then how is that not biblical yeah again again I'm so glad that you asked that question because it really needs to be addressed as we witness to Catholics there's only three places in the New Testament where scripture where I'm sorry where tradition is spoken of in a positive way you've mentioned two of them but in both cases as well as the third the tradition has already been taught already been delivered and it's always the sources the apostles and so the verb tense is so important the tradition has already been delivered or taught and so when you recognize it's already been taught that this this vows or shows that any of the Roman Catholic Traditions that have been added after the first century are to be contended against because in Jude's epistle he said we are to earnestly contend for the faith that was once and for all delivered past tense to the Saints so the body of Truth including Apostolic Traditions that we find in the New Testament that is what we're to contend for and we are to contend against anything that comes against that body of Truth so when you look at Roman Catholic Traditions they have all evolved after the first 400 years and we cannot include those in biblical traditions for that reason is that the justification behind the continuation of the apostolic office so that tradition can continue to be laid down or is that maybe one of them uh that that the the direct line of Apostles continues in the papacy so they have the authority to do those things well that's what they try to convince us of but if you'll notice that in Acts chapter one when Judas committed suicide the apostles came together to select a replacement for Judas and the requirement was that there had to be an eyewitness to the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be a successor of the Apostles and so that would disqualify any Roman Catholic bishop because they were not eyewitnesses to the Lord Jesus Christ and so we have to tell Catholics there's only been two successors there is Matthias and there's the Apostle Paul the apostles chose one but the Lord had already chosen Paul so those are the only two successors we need to encourage Catholics to recognize that their Bishops do not qualify and so what would what would the traditions in those texts actually be referring to well verbal Traditions that were handed down by the apostles so it would be oral teaching okay uh you know as the Apostle Paul went on his missionary journey he did a lot of preaching and so it'd be those oral Traditions that the Apostle Paul preached and taught and delivered all past tense and maybe things that would not stand in Conflict to the written word absolutely because the spirit of God never goes against the word of God amen so now when it comes to the Bible um there's there's a big difference between what Catholics believe about the Bible and what Christians Protestants believe about the Bible so can you kind of flesh out what Catholics believe about the Bible specifically where it came from uh the specific books and uh and things of that nature yeah another important issue to discuss we know that the Bible came from the lord it's this second Timothy chapter 3 verse 15 we read all scripture is inspired by God all scripture is God grazed and he used 40 men over a period of 1500 years to pin his inspired words to paparis and we see that the Old Testament was closed 400 years before Christ and then we see that the New Testament was closed in the first century we know that uh the scriptures were being circulated among churches we know that there is a lot of people that were being martyred because they believe the scripture is to be the word of God we didn't need a church Council to convince the first century Christians that what they were reading was the inspired word of God so we have to recognize there wasn't a church Council that determined what books belong in the Bible it was God God is the one to determined that and the New Testament scriptures as I mentioned were closed in the first century they were circulated around the churches we as we see um Paul referring to Peter even referred to Paul's writing as the inspired word of God a scripture and so Roman Catholics would say that no you needed Roman Catholic councils on the third and fourth Century to determine which of the books were canonical and so that's an argument the Roman Catholics use but then they shoot themselves in the foot because of the Council of Trent and they went against the existing Cannon and they added the apocryphal books at the Council of Trent to the inspired writings of God and we know that the apocryphal books the inter-testament books were not inspired by God because they contained historical and geographical errors but the Roman Catholic Church wanted to add the Apocrypha because in second Maccabees we read that the Israelites died with Pagan amulets around their neck and so alms were sent back to Jerusalem for the Repose of their soul and so the Roman Catholic Church grabbed onto that and said see this gives credibility to our doctrine of purgatory and indulgences well how do you answer that well we don't do things just because the apostate Jews did them after all they rejected Christ as their Messiah and so it's a very weak argument to say that we should believe in purgatory and indulgences because second Maccabees so that historically that's what the Jews did but this is what the Roman Catholic church has done the Catholic Church believes the Bible is the inspired word of God and so I think a lot of times we can deflect this argument as to who gave us the Bible by just simply saying your church believes it's the inspired word of God why don't you read it and believe what it says and don't worry so much about who gave us the Bible it is the inspired word of God read it and believe it that's great just the other day my dad was trying to find a Bible he was in a neighborhood where there's a Catholic church and so he uh he my dad's a plumber he's doing various work but helping people out he's an evangelist in a lot of ways so he went into this church and said do you have any Bibles and they were like no we don't have a Bible he said like anywhere you don't have a thing he said in my church we've got Bibles everywhere you don't have a single Bible here in your Catholic Church Saint Joseph's in Costa Mesa they're like no we don't we don't have a Bible anywhere we've got maybe some old really old ones you know but we don't have anything so that that might come as a shock to people that Catholics and bibles don't don't kind of they kind of don't go together yeah I go into Catholic churches all the time to be a witness for the Lord Jesus Christ and they don't have any Bibles in their pews they have hymnals and so oftentimes we'll go in and we will put our gospel tracks and their hymnals so that as they open up to read the hymns they can find the good news as well but yes Catholic Church you know really has a very interesting history regarding the Bible the Council of Toulouse in the 13th century put the Bible on the list of forbidden books and then again the Council of trump in the 16th century also put the Bible on the list of forbidden books and you're wondering why would a church that claims to be the one true church with Jesus Christ as ahead why would they put his word on the list of forbidden books and the reason is is because the truth was setting them free you know in second Timothy 2 24 we see that we are to pray for those in opposition that God would grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth so they can escape the snare of the devil that holds them captive to do his will and then Jesus says in John 8 31 and 32 the only way to be set free is to prove yourself to be a disciple of mine then you will abide in my word then you will know the truth and that truth will set you free free from religious deception and free from religious bondage so the Catholic Church recognized that these reformers were reading the Bible and it was setting them free and then they were translating it into the common vernacular of the people and the truth of the Bible was setting those people free so they're only way to stop this Mass Exodus was to place the Bible on the list of forbidden books but I would just encourage anyone witnessing the Catholics to use their Bible because they're told not to trust anything that's not Roman Catholic they're not to trust anything from the Protestant church so open their Bible they have the same 66 books you don't have to worry about the Apocrypha just don't go there but take them through the scriptures and show them from their Bible that the Glorious gospel of grace now how did we get from the list of forbidden books to I mean they have daily readings now on their website you know so are is is it somewhat of a revisionist history or are they looking at it different how are they still kind of controlling the flow of information uh when they're when they're posting daily readings and such well they pick and choose the daily readings that they're going to give the people and you won't ever hear Ephesians 2 8 9 in one of the daily readings or Titus 3 5. so it's not just a verse by verse reading through the Bible no no they just pick different passages they say one from the Old Testament one from the new and also a scripture from the Psalms and they'll do that during the mass but you have to remember during the Dark Ages uh the mass was in Latin so even though they were giving scriptures in Latin during the mass people didn't understand them because no one understood Latin so is there Assurance of Salvation in Catholicism no and I'm glad you brought that up because one of the great verses to introduce a Roman Catholic Church is first John 5 13 where John writes to those who believe in the name of the son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life in other words God wants you to know right here and now that you have in your possession Eternal everlasting life well how do you know if you have it will you read the first four chapters of John's epistle and there he gives a picture of what a Christian looks like and so in Roman Catholicism they only have conditional life the Jesus of the Catholic Church did not finish the work of redemption and that's why the priest continues on an altar when Jesus finished on the cross they believe that the priest has the power to call Jesus Christ down from heaven every day and then transubstantiate the inner substance of a wafer into his physical body and blood Catholics will worship the Eucharist as the true Christ which is a sin of idolatry because the scripture points out that it's a false Christ and then he lays it on the altar to be offered up again and so the work of redemption continues on Catholic altars even though Jesus cried out it is finished and even though the book of Hebrews says when he obtained past tense Redemption he entered into heaven and so we need to encourage Roman Catholics that are so hung up on their Mass to read Hebrews chapter 7 9 and 10. those three chapters totally destroy the Roman Catholic mass we see in Hebrews 10 14 by one offering he has made perfect forever those who are being Sanctified and we read there is no more offerings for sin Jesus Christ offered himself wants the perfect high priest to a perfect God who demands Perfection and then he cried out it is finished amen when I was uh witnessing to my grandma uh she's Catholic has been for 90 years and um I said uh Titus 3 5 to her we were talking about works and I said no grandma look at Titus 3 5 he saved us not according to works by done by us but according to his Mercy she goes that's in the Bible and I said yes and she goes well you can't understand the Bible you know and so can you talk speak to infallible interpret interpretation uh and well my response to her by the way was Grandma it's obvious what it says it just says what it says but that's what's that's what one of the Roman Catholic apologists will tell you is that yes we have an infallible book called The Bible but we need an infallible interpreter exactly and that's the pope or the Bishops of the church but how do you answer that well in second Corinthians 4 2 Paul says I present the truth plainly to Every Man's conscience in the sight of God and then you look at the Epistles that Paul wrote it was to the Saints in the church he would he wasn't writing to the Bishops to interpret it for the people he was writing it to individual Saints and we need to tell Catholics we're all going to be held responsible for what the word of God says and and God doesn't try to confuse anybody as Paul wrote he lays out the truth plainly to Every Man's conscience and you know we need to encourage Roman Catholics that conditional life is because you're trusting in what you must do instead of what Christ has done there can never be the Assurance of eternal life if you're putting your trust in what you're doing the only way you can have confidence and Assurance of eternal life is to put all of your faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ in his finished work of redemption he has done everything necessary to say Sinners completely and forever amen well I want to there's one more question I have Kyle do you have any more well you know it's the the conversation keeps uh kind of swimming towards uh the John 17 question so yeah so let's go there now so so back in 1999 I think it was there was the joint Declaration on the doctrine of justification basically proclaiming that the Reformation was over there's 2017 with the Pope declaring the Reformation is over and then in the midst of all that and since that time at least as I can tell probably before that uh there's been a concerted effort to evangelize evangelicals back to the Catholic church or at least to work with the Catholic Church to promote various various doctrinal things I'm not talking about social issues I'm talking about like doctrinal one Church kind of things and so can you can you kind of give us a background to what what this ecumenical movement this uh has been with the Pope for uh for decades now well sure this this current Pope Francis is very aggressive in his ecumenical agenda even more so than the previous two popes and so he's got an all-out effort to unite all professing Christians together in John 17 movement is just one of the tools that he's using um this may surprise you but it's getting so bad that churches are inviting Roman Catholic priests in to share the message of the Gospel of their gospel I was uh made aware of a First Baptist Church or Plano Texas here a suburb of Dallas that invited a Roman Catholic priest in and so I went I wanted to hear with my own ears and he preached out of John 17 that Jesus wants us all to be one that the Reformation divided us we need to come back together as one and so this John 17 movement fails to recognize that yes Jesus wants Unity but he wants unity and Truth we cannot be divided and we cannot be United in error we have to be United in truth and so we cannot be United with a church that preaches a false and fatal gospel and we turn to Second Corinthians chapter 6 14 to 18 where Paul says to not be unequally yoked because what does an unbeliever have in common with a belief favor what does light have in common with Darkness what does Christ have in common with Belial and so we need to remain separate for those who preach a false and fatal gospel but at the end of this message I went up to the priest and I said very interesting message that you're calling for Unity among all these Southern Baptists why didn't you mention the 100 anathemas that condemn everybody in this church and he knew the people were listening so he whispered under his breath we don't talk about those anymore I said why don't you talk about the 100 and everyone here I didn't want them to be deceived I wanted them to know that this same church that's calling for Unity has condemned us because we do not believe justification by faith alone in Christ alone well go no go ahead I was just gonna say going off of what you said earlier this John 17 Page and and it's so important the reason we want to talk about this is the very nature of deception and the nature of understanding the use of language because it says here the the in honoring the prayer of Jesus we exist to inspire develop and display love and unity among all those who profess Jesus as their lord and savior now I I think the Crux of it comes down to what does it mean to profess Jesus as your lord and savior and how do we Define that you know for lack of a better word theologically in in our practice right I mean you mentioned what part does light have with darkness and what part does truth have with error how can we combine the there you know they're they're purporting to do something good here we want to bring everyone together and if I profess Jesus as my Lord and Savior I should be able to fellowship with everyone else who does the same thing right and that's kind of the hypothetical question posed yeah Kyle we have to recognize that Paul said some will come and preach another Jesus in the Roman Catholic Jesus is another Jesus he's a counterfeit he's a false Christ he did not satisfy Divine Justice he does not provide direct access to God that's why you have priests as a mediator between Catholics and God you know one of the Miracles that took place when Christ gave up his Spirit the veil separating the holy of holies from sinful man was torn open from top to bottom showing that now through faith in the shed blood of Jesus we have direct access to the father through the son we no longer need saster Global priest offering the same sacrifice that can never take away sin the Catholic Jesus did not make Believers perfect forever he did not secure salvation and he did not finish the work of redemption so we have to make sure we are looking at the true Jesus versus the counterfeit Jesus because we cannot have Unity with a false Christ that's huge because when I talked to Protestants who are who are being swayed towards them towards Rome they'll say things like hey so are you saying that Catholics aren't saved number one number two they have the same Jesus as we do the they believe the Trinity they believe he's God and so that's hellville can you address you just address the Jesus question but can you address the other one about Catholics being saved well sure um the Roman Catholic Jesus did not finish the work of redemption which is why the Roman Catholic priests have to continue the work of Redemption on an altar and so that's why by the way Catholics have no Assurance because they are told that the sins they commit every week must be paid for at the sacrifice of the mass the Catholic Church declares its mass to be propitiatory in other words the wrath of God is turned away against the sins of the Catholics committed in the previous week and so we know that Jesus finished the work of redemption he cried out it has finished on calvary's cross the veil was torn open there's no more sassadable priests necessary and so Roman Catholics who are utterly dependent upon their priests need to look to the perfect height priest who finished the work of redemption and everything necessary to save them was accomplished by Christ he died once for all sin for all time there are no more offerings for sin and so when the Catholic priest lifts up the Eucharist or Catholics to worship this as the physical presence of Jesus they're committing the sin of idolatry we know from scripture it's a false Christ because in Hebrews 9 28 we read that he will return a second time and not in relation to sin so the Eucharist is a false Christ it's said to be Jesus returning every day in order to pay for the sins committed in the previous week we also know from scripture that Jesus remain will remain in heaven until his enemies have been made as footstool the Bible also tells us when Jesus Will physically return to the Earth it'll be after the tribulation and it says how he's going to return he's going to return in a body the same way he left and it also tells us where he's going to return and that's to the same place he departed from and that's the Mount of Olives so we have all this scriptural authority to prove that the Eucharist is a false Christ and we just need to be patient and spend time with Catholics and show them these verses because to commit the Senate idolatry to worship the Eucharist as a false Christ is no different from the Israelites worshiping the golden cap as the true God that delivered them out of Egypt God had three thousand put to death for the serious sin of idolatry and so I hope that your listeners to this podcast will recognize not only do Catholics need to hear the gospel but they also need to come out of the church that's presenting a false Christ and encouraging them to commit the sin of idolatry that's that's it's incredibly grave um the way that scripture contrasts with the Roman Catholic church and it just seems that Protestants today don't want to draw sharp lines they don't want to color with black and white uh they're they're incredibly afraid to be considered a fundamentalist in these ways but the reason that you do it the reason that we we we we love your ministry and want to expose you more to our church is because Catholics are the mission Fields they're not they're they're not separated brothers and sisters they're they're the mission field because there's a false Christ because there's a false Authority and because there is a false gospel correct correct then a false view of sin and a false view of Mary in a different path to Eternity that's the ultimate result of all these deceptions that are on the wide road that leads to destruction and the only way they'll ever seek to be on the narrow road is for us to point out that they are on the wide Road and we do that lovingly compassionately showing scripture after scripture that refutes all of their ungodly traditions and dogmas then we also have to remember that the reformers died for the defense of the Gospel they were brutally murdered they were brutally tortured and burned at the stake because they would not bow their knee to Rome Rome had so many put to death because of the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and we need to recognize that and encourage evangelicals not to compromise the gospel because there was a great price the reformers paid to make the gospel intact and exclusive for the Next Generation yeah Mike you can't see it here but around this office are pages from the fox's book of Martyrs back in the early 1600s of of the martyrs being killed like I'm looking at uh John pilpott John Rogers Latimer and Ridley John Huss William Tyndale all of these these men who like it's critical the way you put it they died for the defense of the Gospel it wasn't political reasons it was that there were political reasons for Rome but for these men it was the truth of the Gospel that that made them say I would rather be burned at the stake than submit to Roman tyranny including doctrines you know that we might think well could we do we really have to go to the Grave for that transubstantiation I refuse to believe that Christ is re-sacrificed every week and and the way that it's couched in Commerce in modern conversation is how that you know that seems like such a a hard line to take on something that's really not that big of a deal but as you've pointed out and and broke down what that Doctrine actually means it it denies the the efficacy of the atonement of Christ on the cross which is of course a doctrine of primary importance for Christians amen so when it comes coming back to the John 17 movement what do you see is the ultimate purpose because it's not like Rome changes for evangelicals you know it the change is never two ways it's always one directional change and so so as I think about it it the goal is ultimately to to to gain more Catholics people into the Catholic Church to convert people so it's an Evangelistic scheme on their part is that correct is there more well it is John and boy you you cannot even begin to imagine the emails the phone calls the 9-1-1 calls we get from parents and from pastors about someone leaving their Church to join the Roman Catholic religion parents telling us their son or daughter has been dating a Catholic and they're now going to join the Catholic church we hear this week in and week out and to your point we have been given the truth and we stand on the truth of God's word and yet we are the first to compromise the Roman Catholic Church stands on the LIE of the devil but they are unwilling to compromise and so what you see is nine out of ten times when a Catholic and a Protestant come together to start courting it is always the Protestant that leaves their Church to join the Catholic religion it's just heartbreaking to see that they are unwilling to compromise Roman Catholics but yet we who have been gifted with the truth we're the first one to compromise and so more than ever I think uh we need to we need to make people aware that there is only one gospel it's a very narrow way Jesus said very few will find it in fact in Luke's gospel he said you must strive to enter the narrow gate and the reason we have to strive is because in the context of Matthew 7 where Jesus speaks of these two paths to Eternity he said this there's going to be wolves and sheep's clothing standing in front of the narrow gate pointing everybody to the wide way and so if we really want to find the narrow gate we have to strive to enter it we have to diligently search the scriptures to prove to ourselves what is truth what is the narrow way who is the true Christ what is the true gospel these are the things that people need to wrestle with and that's why we produce so many gospel tracks we have eight gospel tracks our newest one is where will you spend eternity we share with people this is the most important issue you face in this life we can be wrong about a lot of things in this life and still survive but if we're wrong about eternity we're going to pay for that mistake forever and ever and so we need to encourage people abide in God's word only then will you know the truth and know whether or not you're being deceived now are your are your resources on your website are they designed in really clever ways with really clever wording or do you rely mostly on exposing the the reader of the information to biblical information and Truth we present the truth clearly plainly using the words of Paul Every Man's conscience I mean the titles you can never do what Christ has done that's not only good for Catholics it's good for anyone that's in a Works righteousness salvation there's many Protestant denominations that preacher Works righteousness salvation we have another one the greatest news about the greatest gift it contains only scripture and so when we give this gospel track away we're literally sowing the imperishable seed of God's word and God gives us this promise when it finds fertile soil when it lands on fertile soil it will produce faith and so we just encourage people as you verbally give the gospel make sure you're leaving the gospel behind in written form so that people will know where to search for the truth they can look through in their Bible they can verify the track is indeed expressing the truth from God's word our most popular track for Catholics is Roman Catholicism scripture versus tradition because in this track we actually lay out the Roman Catholic Bible right alongside the Roman Catholic catechism and we show through the doctrines of Jesus and the doctrines of salvation that the Roman Catholic Bible always opposes the Roman Catholic catechism and so it forces a Catholic to do the same thing I did 35 37 years ago who am I going to trust Christ in his word or the teachings and traditions of My Religion by laying it out side by side it shows that you cannot believe both you must make a choice there's no middle ground and hopefully through the conviction of the Holy Spirit the illumination of the Holy Spirit they will choose Christ in his word and so be saved well that's kind of what I wanted to hear from you in in your your content that I've seen and when you were here with us teaching our people I I what I saw is that there's no clever gimmicks or tricks or even really a compelling argument built for why Catholics shouldn't be Catholics it is we want to show you the truth of God's word in contrast to what you're being told in your church and so there's no real magic formula or uh you know in a sense a gnostic thing that people need to know in order to evangelize Catholics it's simply open your Bible and show them from God's word what he says about himself rather than what a church or a man would say about him yeah and Kyle that's the reason I wrote preparing for eternity if you look at the uh the track I just shared this is the skeleton my book preparing for eternity is the flesh that hangs on the bones because what I do in the book as well as I show Roman Catholic teaching right alongside the word of God it forces Catholics to make a choice because it's they're diametrically opposed they cannot believe both they have to choose am I going to trust my eternal Destiny on Christ and his word or on the teachings and traditions of my religion and ultimately it comes down to this should I entrust the inspired word of God or the uninspired words of men only a fool would trust the uninspired words of man rather than the inspired word of God but yet witnessing to Roman Catholics is like peeling an onion using the word of God as a knife you just peel back one layer of indoctrination time after time until hopefully you get to a heart that's been opened by the Holy Spirit well Mike it has been a a real honor to have you on our 100th podcast and um what I what I love so much about what you're saying is there there's no wiggle room here it it truly is black and white it truly is obvious when you really know the scriptures you can't evaluate Roman Catholicism any other way then it is a mission field and so can you can you leave us with a call for Christians to love their Catholic friends and family I think that would be a fitting way to wrap up our time together well Sir John you know it's not love when we allow Roman Catholics to March proudly toward Hell's Gate without intervening that's not love yes we may lose relationships yes people may be offended but I ask the question if our roles were reversed would you want someone pursuing you with the truth and so we have to love people enough to risk the relationship and also we have to realize we're going to give them the greatest news they'll ever hear about the greatest gift they could ever receive so why are you worried about losing a relationship or a friend if you're giving them this good news but I would just encourage those who listen to this podcast when you witness to Roman Catholics there's three things that you need to keep in mind number one you need to establish the Bible as the supreme authority in all matters of faith in second Timothy 3 15 is a great place to go 3 15 and 16. all scripture is inspired by God and useful for reproof which means for exposing error and then once the air has been exposed by scripture the next is correcting it we can use the scripture to correct the error that's been exposed and so the scripture is above the teachings and traditions of men acts 17 11 would prove that the second principle that we need to make sure we communicate to Catholics is the sufficiency of our Lord Jesus Christ Catholics will be unwilling to let go of all they are doing to save themselves until they know Christ is sufficient to save them completely and forever so by presenting crisis these gloriously revealed in scripture as the all-sufficient Savior who finished the work of redemption Catholics will be more readily ready to let go of what they're doing and the third thing is stay focused on the gospel and I say this from a positive and a negative we need to show what the gospel is that it is exclusive that it is eternal it's the same message for every generation and then we need to show the warning anyone who distorts this eternal gospel of grace is under Divine condemnation and we need to show Roman Catholics that their religion is under Divine condemnation from Galatians 1 6 to 9 and that should encourage them to abide in God's word so they will know the truth let the word of God prove to them what the truth is and that they've been deceived so thank you for the opportunity and I would encourage all of your listeners to visit our website there's so many articles and videos that would encourage you to equip you to be faithful ambassadors for the Lord Jesus Christ and this huge Mission field it is the largest and most neglected Mission field that needs to be addressed time is of the essence we may be in the season of the Lord's return and so let's spend our time witnessing and sharing the Glorious gospel of grace amen we'll all Echo John's thanks for uh you joining us for this episode um I hope as those of you who are watching uh can see the that our hearts for this podcast are are to share truth to share the gospel in fact if we're going to be faithful to John 17 sanctify them in your truth is is is the the prayer of Jesus for your word is the truth we want people to know the word of God and to understand how to uh to find answers to all of their faith questions and and issues that they're facing in the world from God's word and so Mike I want to give you a little plug here um we'll put a link kind of in in uh the description here as well but proclaiming the gospel.org is Mike gendron's Ministry uh on the website you can find out about uh the various ways that they engage in the Catholic World some calendar events to look forward to as well in the store you'll find a lot of helpful tools for your evangelism as well some evangelism tools books including preparing for eternity and contending for the gospel uh video messages on DVD uh tracks and booklets even video messages on flash drives you can leave for people live streaming events things like that and Mike I know you make a fortune off of this stuff right you're going on all kinds of golf and fishing holidays no no what what your investment in these things will be is is not only a helpful resource for you but an investment back into proclaimingthegospel.org Ministries is a way to partner with them to continue perpetuating this ministry so if you would please go and visit that website uh reach out to Mike with any questions please be praying for him uh and and the team there as they continue to contend for the faith in this particular especially in this particular community so thank you for joining us on this the 100th episode of the redeeming truth podcast we hope you've been encouraged and blessed by what you've heard today well thank you John and Kyle and we will pray that God will be glorified the Saints would be edified and the loss would be evangelized through the podcast amen amen [Music]

Channel: Redeemer Bible Church AZ

Views: 82,340

Keywords: the bible vs catholicism, catholicism vs the bible, mike gendron, Redeemer Bible Church, Bible Church, Sound Doctrine, Gilbert Arizona, local church, biblical preaching, gospel centered, redeemeraz, mesa arizona, church in phoenix, bible church in phoenix, Expository preaching, jon benzinger, kyle swanson, redeeming truth, redeeming truth podcast

Id: 4NE9-Q1D1zs

Length: 75min 53sec (4553 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 11 2023