>>ANNOUNCER: TODAY ON THE JOHN ANKERBERG SHOW: WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU ONE MINUTE AFTER YOU DIE? STATISTICS TELL US: ONE HUNDRED AND SIX PEOPLE DIE EVERY MINUTE. FIFTY-FIVE THOUSAND PEOPLE DIE EVERY DAY. FOUR-AND-A HALF MILLION PEOPLE DIE EVERY MONTH. AND FIFTY-SIX MILLION PEOPLE DIE EACH YEAR. IF YOU LIVE FOR SEVENTY YEARS, OVER YOUR LIFETIME, CLOSE TO FOUR BILLION PEOPLE WILL HAVE DIED ON EARTH. AND EVENTUALLY DEATH WILL COME TO YOU AND TO ME. NONE OF US WILL ESCAPE IT. WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY EACH OF US WILL EXPERIENCE ONE MINUTE AFTER WE DIE. MY GUEST TODAY IS THEOLOGIAN AND BEST-SELLING AUTHOR, DR. ERWIN LUTZER, SENIOR MINISTER OF MOODY CHURCH IN CHICAGO, ILLINOIS, WHO HAS WRITTEN THE BOOK, ONE MINUTE AFTER YOU DIE. WE INVITE YOU TO JOIN US FOR THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF THE JOHN ANKERBERG SHOW. >>JOHN ANKERBERG: WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM. I'M JOHN ANKERBERG. THANKS FOR JOINING ME TODAY. WE'VE GOT A TOPIC THAT I THINK IS RIGHT DOWN YOUR ALLEY. WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU ONE MOMENT, ONE MINUTE, AFTER YOU DIE? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO SEE? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO EXPERIENCE? WHAT DOES THE BIBLE HAVE TO SAY? AND TODAY WE'RE GOING TO EMPHASIZE, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE BELIEVERS IN JESUS CHRIST, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY HEAVEN'S GOING TO BE LIKE? YOU MIGHT DIE IN PAIN HERE; YOU MIGHT HAVE SUFFERING OR AN ACCIDENT OR A MURDER. AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU CLOSE YOUR EYES IN THIS LIFE AND YOU OPEN THEM IN THE NEXT. FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE BELIEVERS IN JESUS CHRIST, WHAT WILL HEAVEN BE LIKE? WHAT WILL HEAVEN BE LIKE EVEN FUTURE? GOD HAS THINGS PLANNED FOR US IN HEAVEN, AND HEAVEN ITSELF IS GOING TO BE IMPROVED, IF YOU WANT, AND EXPANDED, AND MADE BEAUTIFUL IN MORE WAYS THAN WE CAN EVEN DREAM. AND MY GUEST TODAY IS DR. ERWIN LUTZER. HE IS THE PASTOR OF MOODY CHURCH, THE HISTORICAL CHURCH IN CHICAGO, ILLINOIS, AND HAS WRITTEN A BEST-SELLING BOOK ON THIS TOPIC. AND, ERWIN, YOU KNOW, I'VE SEEN BARBARA WALTERS DO SPECIALS ON ABC ABOUT HEAVEN, AND IT'S LIKE 94% OF AMERICANS ALL THINK THEY'RE JUST GOING TO LAND IN HEAVEN BY DEFAULT, OKAY. THE BIBLE DOESN'T SAY THAT, SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SERIOUSNESS OF THIS TOPIC. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS JUST A FAIRY TALE OR WE HOPE WE GET THERE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW PEOPLE CAN ABSOLUTELY KNOW FOR SURE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO HEAVEN. AND PEOPLE THAT ARE LISTENING, THEY WANT TO KNOW THAT. START US OFF. >>DR. ERWIN LUTZER: JOHN, OF ALL, YOUR COMMENT THERE, ABOUT 94% OF AMERICANS THINK THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HEAVEN, THE BIBLE WOULD INDICATE THAT THE NUMBER THAT GOES TO HEAVEN PROBABLY IS LESS THAN THOSE THAT MIGHT BE IN HELL. AND, BY THE WAY, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE LISTENING RIGHT NOW, OUR NEXT SESSION IS GOING TO BE ON THE TOPIC OF HELL, SO YOU MOST ASSUREDLY WANT TO LISTEN TO THAT AS WELL. >>ANKERBERG: YES. MOST PEOPLE HAVE NEVER EVER HEARD ANYBODY TALK FROM THE BIBLE, A, B, C, D, ABOUT WHAT HELL IS GOING TO BE LIKE. >>LUTZER: SO RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING WE HAVE TO EMPHASIZE THAT DEATH IS NOT THE SAME EXPERIENCE FOR EVERYONE. AND AS WE EMPHASIZED IN SOME OF THE PAST BROADCASTS, OUR PAST PROGRAMS TOGETHER, THE BIBLE INDICATES THAT THERE IS A HEAVEN, THERE IS A HADES, AND WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THAT IN THE NEXT PROGRAM, AND IT WILL BE ONE OR THE OTHER. AND, JOHN, AT THE END OF THIS PROGRAM, I'M GOING TO BE GIVING SOME VERY SPECIFIC GUIDANCE ON HOW PEOPLE CAN KNOW THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE IN HEAVEN. SO WE ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO CONTINUE TO LISTEN. >>ANKERBERG: GREAT. NOW WHEN PEOPLE ASK YOU ABOUT HEAVEN, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THEY WANT TO KNOW? >>LUTZER: WELL, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU READ REVELATION CHAPTER 21 AND CHAPTER 22, AND YOU HAVE THIS GRAND DESCRIPTION OF HEAVEN. LET'S BEGIN, FOR EXAMPLE, BY TALKING ABOUT ITS SIZE. THE NEW JERUSALEM, IF YOU DO THE MATH, IT, IT SEEMS TO BE A CUBE. AND THAT CUBE WOULD BE 1500 MILES HIGH, 1500 MILES WIDE, AND ITS DEPTH 1500 MILES, WHICH MEANS THAT, THAT IS A HUGE AREA. NOW, IF WE'RE TO TAKE THAT LITERALLY, THERE WOULD HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DIFFERENT STORIES IN HEAVEN. AND, OF COURSE, IN OUR CONTEMPORARY WAY, IF WE DIVIDED IT UP INTO APARTMENTS OR CONDOMINIUMS, THERE WOULD BE ROOM FOR MULTIPLIED MILLIONS AND EVEN BILLIONS OF PEOPLE. YOU REMEMBER WHAT JESUS SAID TO THE DISCIPLES. HE ASSURED THEM, HE SAID, "IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE ARE MANY DWELLING PLACES. IF IT WERE NOT SO I WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU." AND I WANT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LISTENING RIGHT NOW TO KNOW THAT IF THEY COME TO FAITH IN CHRIST, AS WE WILL BE EXPLAINING IN A FEW MOMENTS, THERE IS A CROWN IN HEAVEN THAT ONLY THEY CAN WEAR. AND I BELIEVE THAT THERE'S A PLACE WAITING FOR THEM THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO OCCUPY. >>ANKERBERG: ALRIGHT. NOW, IN YOUR BOOK YOU SAY THAT IF, LET'S SAY THAT WE HAD THIS SQUARE, THIS CUBE THAT IS 1500 MILES HIGH, 1500 MILES WIDE, 1500 MILES DEEP, ALRIGHT, AND YOU DIVIDED IT UP, AND YOU SAID IF EVERY APARTMENT HAD A 20-FOOT CEILING, OKAY, YOU WOULD FIRST OF ALL HAVE 396,000 STORIES HIGH. AND EVERY STORY WOULD BE HALF THE LENGTH OF THE UNITED STATES. SO THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM IN THERE TO PUT ALL KINDS OF BELIEVERS, THE OLD TESTAMENT, THE NEW TESTAMENT. AND WHAT I LOVE, WHAT YOU SAID IS GOD SAYS HE'S RESERVED A PLACE FOR YOU, FOR THOSE THAT ARE BELIEVERS. >>LUTZER: AND NOT ONLY THAT, JOHN. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS CITY, AND AGAIN, WE'RE IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION CHAPTER 21, THE BIBLE SAYS THAT THE GATES OF THE CITY ACTUALLY HAVE THE NAMES OF THE 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL, AND THE 12 FOUNDATION STONES ARE THE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB. SO LET'S TRY TO GET OUR MINDS AROUND THIS, AND REALIZE WHAT GOD IS TRYING TO SAY TO US IS IN THE HOLY CITY THERE IS GOING TO BE THE OLD TESTAMENT SAINTS AND THE NEW TESTAMENT SAINTS. WE ARE GOING TO BE TOGETHER. AND REMEMBER WHAT WE LEARNED LAST TIME IN OUR SESSION, THAT THE BODIES THAT WE HAVE ARE GOING TO BE RAISED, THE SCRIPTURE SAYS, WITH POWER. SO WHAT THAT MEANS, AND AGAIN WE'RE SIMPLY TRYING TO USE OUR IMAGINATIONS HERE, LET'S SUPPOSE THAT YOU'RE ON THE 1000TH STORY, AND ALL OF THE ACTIVITY IS IN THE DOWNSTAIRS LOUNGE. YOU COULD JUST DECIDE TO BE THERE AND YOU WOULD BE THERE THAT QUICKLY. THINK OF HOW EXCITING THIS IS FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LISTENING TODAY. OUR FRIENDS AROUND THE WORLD WHO ARE GOING THROUGH SO MUCH TROUBLE IN THEIR LIVES AND SO MUCH SICKNESS, IF WE CAN ONLY HELP THEM SEE THE GLORIES OF THE HEAVENLY CITY AND THEN HELP THEM TO REALIZE THAT WE CAN KNOW THAT WE ARE GOING THERE. IT'S THE BEST NEWS THAT THEY WILL EVER HEAR. >>ANKERBERG: ERWIN, I THINK RIGHT HERE WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT HEAVEN PRESENTLY IS ONE WAY, AND THAT'S WHERE GOD IS AT. GOD SAYS THAT AFTER THE TRIBULATION AND THEN THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM, THAT THEN HE'S GOING TO DESTROY THE EARTH; HE'S GOING TO RECREATE A BRAND NEW ONE. AND THE FACT IS, THE HEAVENLY CITY IS GOING TO COME DOWN. AND WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO HAVE, NOT ONLY THE HEAVENLY CITY THAT WE'RE DESCRIBING, BUT THE FACT IS, HE'S GOING TO CHANGE EARTH AND MAKE IT EVEN MORE BEAUTIFUL THAN WE KNOW IT NOW. KIND OF TALK ABOUT THAT. >>LUTZER: JOHN, YOU HAVE SAID IT VERY WELL. AND SO OUR LISTENERS NEED TO UNDERSTAND, AS WE EXPLAINED IN PREVIOUS PROGRAMS, THAT INDEED THE PEOPLE WHO GO TO HEAVEN NOW, THAT IS THOSE OF US WHO WOULD DIE, WE GO TO HEAVEN, OUR SOULS TAKE ON THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE BODY. BUT THEN THERE IS GOING TO BE A RESURRECTION AND THEN THERE WILL BE, AS YOU MENTIONED, THERE'LL BE THE TRIBULATION, THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM, AND THE HEAVEN THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY IS THE PERMANENT ETERNAL HEAVEN. JOHN, I'M SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS. >>ANKERBERG: YES, SIR. >>LUTZER: WOULD IT BE OKAY IF I JUST READ SOME VERSES FROM SCRIPTURE, REGARDING IT AND HELP US TO UNDERSTAND ALL OF ITS BEAUTY AND WHAT WILL NOT BE IN HEAVEN. JOHN SAYS, "I SAW A NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH; FOR THE FIRST HEAVEN AND THE FIRST EARTH HAD PASSED AWAY, AND THE SEA WAS NO MORE." THE SEA REFERS TO NATIONS, ALL OF THE NATIONS THAT ARE STRUGGLING TODAY. >>ANKERBERG: IN TURMOIL. >>LUTZER: IT'S ALL GOING TO BE VERY DIFFERENT. THERE'S GOING TO BE PEACE, OBVIOUSLY. "AND I SAW THE HOLY CITY, NEW JERUSALEM, COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN FROM GOD, PREPARED AS A BRIDE ADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND. AND I HEARD A LOUD VOICE FROM THE THRONE SAYING, 'BEHOLD THE DWELLING PLACE OF GOD IS WITH MEN. HE WILL DWELL WITH THEM AND THEY WILL BE HIS PEOPLE. GOD HIMSELF WILL BE WITH THEM AND BE THEIR GOD. HE WILL WIPE AWAY ALL TEARS FROM THEIR EYES.'" LET'S STOP THERE FOR A MOMENT. WHY WOULD THERE BE TEARS IN HEAVEN? WELL, THERE ARE VARIOUS IDEAS THAT WE HAVE. ONE IS THAT, COULD YOU BE HAPPY IN HEAVEN IF YOU KNEW THAT A RELATIVE OR A FRIEND OR A CHILD OF YOURS WAS IN HELL? SO THAT MIGHT BE ONE REASON WHY THERE ARE TEARS IN HEAVEN. BUT I DO NEED TO SAY THIS, THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE EVEN SAID, "WELL, BECAUSE GOD KNOWS WE COULDN'T BE HAPPY IF WE KNEW THAT, HE WOULD ACTUALLY BLANK OUT OUR MINDS AND WE WOULDN'T REMEMBER THAT WE HAD A CHILD OR A RELATIVE IN HELL." BUT I DON'T THINK GOD SOLVES OUR PROBLEMS BY MAKING US IGNORANT. RATHER, HE IS GOING TO GIVE US WISDOM SO THAT WE UNDERSTAND HIS POINT OF VIEW, AND WE WILL SEE THAT HE DID EVERYTHING RIGHT AND JUST. >>ANKERBERG: AND WE'RE GOING TO TALK MORE ABOUT THAT WHEN WE GET TO THE TOPIC OF HELL. >>LUTZER: JOHN, I THINK MAYBE THE REASON THAT THERE ARE TEARS IN HEAVEN IS BECAUSE OF THE REGRETS THAT WE HAVE. WHEN WE THINK BACK OVER THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE HAVE HAD HERE ON EARTH, OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE DID NOT TAKE, I'M SURE THAT WE'LL LOOK BACK AND SAY, "WHY DIDN'T I LIVE MY ENTIRE LIFE FOR JESUS CHRIST? WHY DID I WASTE SO MUCH MONEY, SO MUCH TIME AND TALENT FOR MYSELF?" THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THOUGHTS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE. AND GOD IS GOING TO COME AND HE IS GOING TO WIPE OUT, I NOTICED IT WHEN I READ IT THIS MORNING, HE IS GOING TO WIPE OUT EVERY TEAR FROM OUR EYES. AND DEATH SHALL BE NO MORE." MAYBE WE CAN JUST STOP THERE FOR A MOMENT AND JUST CONTEMPLATE THE FACT THAT IN HEAVEN NO FUNERAL HOMES, NO HEARSE ON ITS WAY TO A GRAVE. DEATH WILL BE NO MORE. PARTING WILL NEVER HAVE TO HAPPEN AGAIN. WE'LL NEVER HAVE TO SAY GOODBYE TO ANYONE, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT WE ARE NOW IN ETERNITY WITH PERFECT BODIES AND, LET'S NOT FORGET IT, RIGHT IN THE DWELLING PLACE OF GOD. CAN IT GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT? >>ANKERBERG: YES. ALRIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK, ERWIN. WHEN WE COME BACK I WANT TO TALK ABOUT CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THEIR FAMILY. WILL WE HAVE FAMILY GATHERINGS UP THERE? WILL WE KNOW EACH OTHER? AND THEN I WANT TO TALK TO PEOPLE THAT ARE LISTENING THAT ARE CHRISTIANS THAT THEY KNOW THAT THEIR MOTHER, THEIR FATHER, THEY'RE NOT CHRISTIANS. AND SO THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO BE AN ORPHAN IN HEAVEN. ARE THEY GOING TO FEEL LONELY? ARE THEY GOING TO BE ALL ALONE? AND SO WE WANT TO ANSWER THOSE KINDS OF QUESTIONS AND WE'RE GOING TO DO IT WHEN WE COME RIGHT BACK, SO I HOPE YOU'LL STICK WITH US. >>ANNOUNCER: IF YOU WOULD LIKE ALL 4 TELEVISION PROGRAMS IN OUR NEW SERIES: WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU ONE MINUTE AFTER YOU DIE? THEY ARE AVAILABLE ON DVD FOR A GIFT OF $49 U.S. IF YOU LIVE IN IN AMERICA OR CANADA YOU MAY ORDER THIS SERIES BY CALLING US AT 1-800-805-3030. IF YOU LIVE IN OTHER COUNTRIES YOU MAY ORDER THESE PROGRAMS AT OUR WEBSITE AT JASHOW.ORG. >>ANKERBERG: WE'RE BACK, AND WE'RE TALKING WITH DR. ERWIN LUTZER. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC, AND THAT IS, IF YOU'RE A BELIEVER, AND YOU CLOSE YOUR EYES IN THIS LIFE IN DEATH. WHEN YOU OPEN THEM UP IN THE NEXT MOMENT, AND YOU'RE IN GLORY, WHAT IS HEAVEN GOING TO BE LIKE? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT NOW I WANT TO ASK THE QUESTION, ERWIN, PEOPLE WONDER, WILL WE HAVE FAMILY GATHERINGS? WHAT'S HEAVEN GOING TO BE LIKE? IS IT LIKE THE LITTLE CHILD THAT THOUGHT, "MAN, I'M GOING TO A CHURCH SERVICE AND I'M GOING TO BE SINGING THE HYMNS ALL THE WAY, ONE AT A TIME THROUGH THE HYMN BOOK AND WHEN I GET ALL THE WAY TO THE END WE'LL DO IT AGAIN?" IS IT GOING TO BE BORING OR IS HEAVEN GOING TO BE FUN? AND ALSO, WHAT ABOUT THIS THING OF FAMILY GATHERINGS? >>LUTZER: I HAVE SUCH GOOD NEWS, JOHN, ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT IS VERY CLEAR FROM SCRIPTURE. AND NOW I WANT TO TALK TO THE PEOPLE THAT YOU HAVE REFERENCED. I WANT TO TALK TO THAT CHILD WHO FEELS ABANDONED, THE CHILD WHO PERHAPS WAS ABUSED BY FATHER, BY MOTHER, PERHAPS BY BOTH. I WANT TO SPEAK TO EVERY ORPHAN OUT THERE. I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE PERSON WHO WAS CONCEIVED OUT OF WEDLOCK AND THEREFORE HAS QUESTIONS: HOW DO I FIT INTO GOD'S ETERNAL PURPOSE? THE NEWS IS VERY, VERY GOOD. YOU KNOW, THOSE OF US WHO HAD GOOD FAMILIES, WE KNOW THE INTIMACY AND THE JOY THAT THERE IS WHEN WE MEET TOGETHER. WHEN WE GET TO A PICNIC TOGETHER, WE CAN ENJOY EACH OTHER. BUT THERE ARE MILLIONS OF FAMILIES IN THIS WORLD WHO'VE NEVER REALLY EXPERIENCED THAT. NOW, I BELIEVE THAT THE INTIMACY THAT WE EXPERIENCE IN THOSE GOOD FAMILIES, THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO TAKE PLACE IN HEAVEN, EXCEPT THAT OUR FAMILY IS GOING TO BE SO MUCH BIGGER - IT WILL INCLUDE ALL OF THE REDEEMED. AND EVERYONE WILL BE ACCEPTED, EVERYONE WILL BE WELCOMED, EVERYONE WILL BE LOOKED AT AS A DAUGHTER OF GOD, AND A SON OF GOD. YOU SAY, "WELL, PASTOR LUTZER, WHERE DO YOU FIND THIS IN THE BIBLE?" YOU KNOW, IN MARK CHAPTER 3 THERE'S A VERY INTERESTING STORY. THE BROTHERS OF JESUS AND EVEN JESUS' MOTHER WERE TRYING TO GET TO HIM. NOW, YOU HAVE TO SEE THE CONTEXT. HE'S SPEAKING TO A LARGE CROWD. AND THEN JESUS SAYS THIS, "WHO ARE MY MOTHER AND MY BROTHERS? AND LOOKING ABOUT ON THOSE WHO WERE SITTING AROUND HIM JESUS SAID, 'BEHOLD, MY MOTHER AND MY BROTHERS; FOR WHOEVER DOES THE WILL OF GOD, HE IS MY BROTHER, SISTER AND MOTHER.'" JESUS IS SAYING, "IF YOU BELONG TO ME, YOU ARE MY RELATIVES." I THINK, FOR EXAMPLE, OF HIS WORDS TO MARY MAGDALENE AT THE TOMB. REMEMBER HOW SHE WAS THERE, SHE DIDN'T RECOGNIZE HIM. AND THEN WHEN SHE RECOGNIZED HIM SHE WAS SO FILLED WITH JOY. BUT JESUS SAID THIS, "I ASCEND TO MY FATHER AND TO YOUR FATHER AND TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD." DO YOU REALIZE WHAT JESUS WAS SAYING TO THIS WOMAN WHO MANY PEOPLE THINK WAS AN OUTCAST? HE WAS SAYING TO HER THAT "YOUR FATHER IS THE SAME AS MY FATHER; YOUR GOD IS THE SAME AS MY GOD." WHY? IMAGINE THIS. IN THE BOOK OF HEBREWS THE BIBLE SAYS THAT JESUS IS NOT ASHAMED TO CALL US HIS BROTHERS. NOW, MIND YOU, WE MAY ASK THE QUESTION, ARE WE EVER ASHAMED OF HIM? AND THE ANSWER MIGHT BE YES, AND SHAME ON US IF WE ARE. BUT HE'S NOT ASHAMED. I WANT TO SPEAK TO THAT PERSON TODAY WHO IS BROKEN. YOU KNOW, YOU COULD TAKE A $20 BILL. AND IT COULD BE VERY PRISTINE, VERY CLEAR AND VERY CLEAN. BUT IT COULD ALSO BE IN THE MUD AND IT COULD BE FILLED WITH MUD AND GRIME. IT'S STILL WORTH $20. AND I SAY TO THAT PERSON OUT THERE GOING THROUGH SO MUCH TURMOIL, SO MUCH REJECTION, PERSONAL PAIN, YOU ARE STILL VALUABLE. YOU ARE AN ETERNAL SOUL. AND IF YOU TRUST JESUS AS YOUR SAVIOR YOU WILL BE WITH HIM FOREVER, AND YOU WILL HAVE MILLIONS OF BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHO LOVE YOU, WHO REGARD YOU, BECAUSE YOU HAVE VALUE TO GOD. >>ANKERBERG: TALK ABOUT THIS THING OF INTIMACY NOT JUST WITH YOUR OWN FAMILY, BUT SOMEHOW IN HEAVEN WE'RE GOING TO BE RECONCILED TO EACH OTHER. WE WON'T HAVE TO HAVE NAMETAGS; EXPLAIN THAT AGAIN. AND THE FACT IS THAT WE'LL BASICALLY HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE, PEOPLE WE WOULD LOVE TO TALK WITH AND WE'LL HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK WITH THROUGH ALL ETERNITY. >>LUTZER: EXACTLY. AND, OF COURSE, AS I MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS ARE GOING TO BE BY THE MULTIPLIED MILLIONS AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH THEM. I DON'T THINK, AS YOU MENTIONED, THAT WE WILL NEED NAMETAGS. YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THAT PETER, JAMES AND JOHN ON THE MOUNT OF TRANSFIGURATION HAD TO BE INTRODUCED TO MOSES AND ELIJAH. I THINK INTUITIVELY WE WILL KNOW ONE ANOTHER. AND, OF COURSE, IF YOU WANT TO SPEND TIME WITH PETER AND SAY, "PETER, WHY DID YOU DENY JESUS?" [CHUCKLE] YOU KNOW, YOU'LL HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH HIM. AND BECAUSE WE WILL HAVE ALL OF ETERNITY, IMAGINE THIS, WE WILL NEVER HAVE TO BE IN A HURRY BECAUSE ETERNITY IS VERY, VERY LONG. AND IT IS JUST GOING TO BE A TIME OF REJOICING AND SERVICE TO GOD. YOU KNOW, THE BIBLE SAYS THAT WE SHALL REIGN WITH HIM AND HIS SERVANTS SHALL SERVE HIM. IMAGINE THAT, THAT JESUS IS WILLING TO HAVE US REIGN WITH HIM. I WANT TO QUOTE THIS VERSE OF SCRIPTURE. IT HAS MEANT SO MUCH TO ME. IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION JESUS SAID THESE WORDS. "HE WHO OVERCOMES, TO HIM I SHALL GRANT TO SIT WITH ME ON MY THRONE, EVEN AS I OVERCAME AND SAT WITH MY FATHER ON HIS THRONE." NOW, I'VE NEVER YET MET A CHRISTIAN WHO DIDN'T WANT TO BE AN OVERCOMER. BUT I'VE MET PLENTY OF CHRISTIANS WHO DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO OVERCOME. SO I SAY TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LISTENING TODAY, YOU MAY BE GOING THROUGH A DIFFICULT TIME IN YOUR EXPERIENCE. BE FAITHFUL, AND YOU WILL GET TO REIGN WITH JESUS CHRIST. IT'S HIS PROMISE. >>ANKERBERG: THE BIBLE SAYS THERE'S GOING TO BE AT LEAST TWO THINGS MORE THAT ARE NOT GOING TO BE IN HEAVEN. ONE IS PAIN, AND THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY LYING. TALK ABOUT THOSE TWO THINGS. >>LUTZER: YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF CHAPTER 22 OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION IT TALKS ABOUT THOSE WHO WILL NOT BE IN HEAVEN, AND IT LISTS A WHOLE CATEGORY OF SINS. AND AMONG THAT CATEGORY OF SINS THERE IS LYING; THERE IS SEXUAL IMMORALITY; AND SO FORTH. BUT WHAT WE MUST EMPHASIZE IS THIS, THAT THE PEOPLE WHO COMMIT SUCH SINS CAN BE IN HEAVEN IF IN THIS LIFE THEY RECEIVE JESUS CHRIST AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOR. BUT THE SCRIPTURE INDICATES THAT BY NO MEANS IS EVERYONE GOING TO BE IN THE HEAVENLY CITY. THIS GOES BACK TO THE VERY BEGINNING OF OUR PROGRAM TODAY WHERE YOU TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT MOST AMERICANS THINK THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE IN HEAVEN. OUR OPINION OF OURSELVES IS MUCH GREATER AND MUCH BETTER THAN GOD'S OPINION OF US, BECAUSE HE SEES OUR SIN AND IT IS VERY SERIOUS. >>ANKERBERG: ERWIN, IN THE FEW MINUTES THAT WE'VE GOT THAT ARE LEFT, I WANT YOU TO TALK TO THIS VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION: IF A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THEY'RE GOING THERE, BUT THEY'RE REALLY NOT, OKAY, WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THAT RIGHT NOW. HOW CAN PEOPLE KNOW FOR SURE THEY ARE, AND HOW CAN THEY KNOW FOR SURE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE IN HEAVEN? >>LUTZER: YOU KNOW, JOHN, JESUS REPEATEDLY TAUGHT THAT OUR ETERNAL DESTINY DEPENDED UPON OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM. "HE THAT BELIEVES ON THE SON HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. HE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON HIM." AND THE REASON IS BECAUSE JESUS IS THE ONLY SAVIOR. I'VE EMPHASIZED THIS BEFORE, BUT IT NEEDS TO BE SAID AGAIN, PROPHETS AND GURUS CANNOT TAKE AWAY SIN. ONLY JESUS CAN. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A VERY INTERESTING STORY ABOUT A SCHOOL THAT WAS BURNING. AND IT WAS ON FIRE, AND THERE WAS A FATHER THERE ENCOURAGING HIS SON TO JUMP. TWELVE BOYS JUMPED AND THE FATHER CAUGHT THEM ALL - THIS IS A TRUE STORY - BECAUSE THE CHILDREN WERE ON THE SECOND STORY AND THEY COULDN'T GET DOWN. HIS OWN SON REFUSED TO JUMP. WHAT HE DID, AND PART OF THE STORY IS THIS, THE BOY TOOK A TROPHY HE HAD JUST WON AND WAVED IT IN FRONT OF HIS FATHER. HE HAD WON IT IN SCHOOL THAT DAY BECAUSE OF FAITHFULNESS IN DOING HIS HOMEWORK, AND HE WAS SO PROUD OF IT. HE DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THERE WAS FIRE BEHIND HIM. AND BECAUSE HE DIDN'T JUMP INTO HIS FATHER'S ARMS, HE WAS BURNED. AND I SAY TO PEOPLE TODAY, THERE ARE THOSE WHO HOLD THEIR TROPHIES. THEY SAY TO THEMSELVES, "LOOK AT WHAT I'VE ACCOMPLISHED. I GO TO CHURCH. I TAKE THE SACRAMENTS. I WAS BAPTIZED. HERE, LORD JESUS!" AND THEY DON'T REALIZE THAT THAT'S NOT THE PATH TO THE HEAVENLY FATHER. WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO IS TO JUMP. [CHUCKLE] BY THAT I MEAN THEY NEED TO JUMP INTO THE ARMS OF JESUS AND SAY, "JESUS, I'M A SINNER. I'M BOUND FOR HELL," WHICH IS THE TOPIC WE'RE GOING TO BE SPEAKING ABOUT NEXT TIME, IN THE NEXT SESSION, "BUT I TRUST YOU AND I BELIEVE ON YOU." A LITTLE GIRL WAS ASKED WHETHER OR NOT SHE WAS AFRAID TO GO HOME, BECAUSE SHE LIVED ON THE OTHER SIDE OF A CEMETERY. AND SHE SAID, "NO, I'M NOT AFRAID TO WALK THROUGH THE CEMETERY, BECAUSE MY HOME IS ON THE OTHER SIDE." PEOPLE TODAY, RIGHT NOW, CAN KNOW THAT THEIR HOME IS ON THE OTHER SIDE. >>ANKERBERG: YES. WONDERFUL STUFF. FOLKS, YOU TRUST A LOT OF FRIENDS. YOU'D SAY THEY WOULD NEVER LET YOU DOWN, SO YOU TRUST THEM. SOME OF YOU SAY, "I WOULD TRUST THIS GUY WITH MY LIFE." THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH JESUS CHRIST WHEN YOU TRUST JESUS CHRIST WITH YOUR ETERNAL DESTINY. WOULD YOU TRUST HIM TO TAKE AWAY YOUR SIN? WOULD YOU PUT YOURSELF INTO HIS HANDS AND TRUST THAT ONLY? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. HAS THERE EVER BEEN A MOMENT IN YOUR LIFE WHERE YOU ADMITTED TO JESUS CHRIST YOU HAVE SINNED BIG TIME? YOU ARE SEPARATED FROM HIM. BUT YOU BELIEVE HE IS GOD THE SON WHO DIED ON THE CROSS AND HAS THE POWER TO SAVE YOU, AND WILL, IF YOU WILL SAY, "LORD, I'M PUTTING MY TRUST IN WHAT YOU DID FOR ME ON THE CROSS. PLEASE COME INTO MY LIFE." IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE THAT, IF YOU WANT TO BE SURE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HEAVEN, THE BIBLE SAYS, "WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED." THAT COULD BE YOU TODAY. AT THE END OF THE PROGRAM TODAY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A LITTLE PLACE WHERE YOU CAN GO TO OUR WEBSITE WHERE WE HAVE A PRAYER THAT YOU CAN SAY IF YOU WANT TO RECEIVE JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR TODAY. AND I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU TO DO THAT IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT YET. NOW, NEXT WEEK WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE ONE MOMENT AFTER DEATH WHEN PEOPLE DIE, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO EXPERIENCE IF THEY HAVEN'T PUT THEIR FAITH IN CHRIST, AND THEIR DESCENT INTO GLOOM, INTO HELL. WHAT IS HELL LIKE? WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY? HOW LONG WILL IT LAST? ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT NEXT WEEK, SO I HOPE THAT YOU'LL JOIN US. >>ANNOUNCER: STAY TUNED FOR SCENES FROM NEXT WEEK'S PROGRAM. >>ANNOUNCER: IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION IN OUR NEW SERIES, WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU ONE MINUTE AFTER YOU DIE? ALL 4 TELEVISION PROGRAMS ARE AVAILABLE ON DVD FOR A GIFT OF $49. WHAT INFORMATION HAS GOD GIVEN TO US SO THAT WE CAN OVERCOME OUR FEAR OF DEATH? WHAT WILL HAPPEN THE MOMENT YOU MAKE THE TRANSITION FROM LIFE, TO DEATH, TO HEAVEN? AND WHAT ABOUT THE DEATH OF INFANTS? WHEN WE GET TO HEAVEN WILL MY CHILD KNOW ME? WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THEM NOW? ALL 4 TELEVISION PROGRAMS IN THIS SERIES ARE AVAILABLE ON DVD FOR A GIFT OF $49. THEN WE TAPED A SECOND SERIES CALLED, "WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU ONE MINUTE AFTER YOU DIE?" PART 2, WHERE WE ANSWER THE QUESTIONS: FOR THOSE WHO ARE CHRISTIANS, WHAT WILL HEAVEN BE LIKE YOU'RE FIRST HOUR IN GLORY? FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT BELIEVED IN CHRIST, THE DESCENT INTO GLOOM: WHAT WILL HELL BE LIKE? IS GOD REALLY IN CONTROL OF HOW AND WHEN YOU DIE? WHAT ABOUT CHRISTIANS WHO COMMIT SUICIDE? WILL THEY BE IN HEAVEN? AND HOW CAN YOU HAVE COMPLETE ASSURANCE YOU ARE GOING TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE? ALL 4 TELEVISION PROGRAMS IN THIS SERIES, ARE AVAILABLE ON DVD FOR A GIFT OF $49. THEN WE ARE MAKING AVAILABLE TWO OTHER SERIES WITH DR. LUTZER. FIRST, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? IN WHICH HE DOCUMENTS 5 DISTURBING CULTURAL TRENDS THAT MAY BE IRREVERSIBLE UNLESS GOD STEPS IN; AND SECOND, FAITH AT THE BREAKING POINT - 5 UNSHAKEABLE BIBLICAL TRUTHS THAT CHRISTIANS CAN HANG ON TO IN A WORLD OF CHAOS AND DECLINE. EACH OF THESE SERIES IS AVAILABLE FOR $39. AND FINALLY, IF YOU WISH TO ORDER ALL 4 OF THESE SERIES, CONTAINING 14 HALF HOUR TELEVISION PROGRAMS, THEY ARE AVAILABLE TOGETHER IN A SPECIAL PACKAGE FOR ONLY $100 U.S. THOSE OF YOU LIVING IN AMERICA OR CANADA, YOU MAY ORDER THIS PROGRAMS BY CALLING US AT 1-800-805-3030. THAT'S 1-800-805-3030. IF YOU LIVE IN OTHER COUNTRIES, YOU MAY ORDER THESE PROGRAMS AT OUR WEBSITE AT JASHOW.ORG. >>ANNOUNCER: AND TO LEARN HOW TO START A RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS CHRIST GO TO OUR WEBSITE AT JASHOW.ORG AND CLICK ON: "PRAY TO ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR."
