thank you and welcome to all of you it's I'm so happy to be back here and to see you again and we're particularly honored to have him annual pebble tile who's going to talk to us about his career emanuelle told me that he does not come from an art collecting family he he really is completely self-invented self-made he started I think in his own apartment and now he does 21 years fairs a year just come back from San Francisco yes globe-trotting is really the case a new space in Shanghai and I'm going to start by asking him annual to retrace a little bit his career how he started and how he what was his vision is his vision the same today and I'm sure that you'll enjoy listening to him so it manuals start at the beginning the beginning is not the pictures you just see you know I started to work at the age of 16 years old I was doing a different small job I started to do summer works at the bank where my father was just all for you and my father is not a banker it was just an opera and I was doing a after many many small job and at 17 years old I was finishing to use a very specific Lisa and I know he was really talk during a talk with honestly about his Lisa but I don't have the back I know I don't have any graduation I just talked about this I don't know so God in the French system and I was doing a school very specific it was Otto Jerry Lee see Otto Jared Perry we was able to decide everything we was deciding which teacher we did not have any obligation of presences and we was able to to yes to vote everything one vote for each student it was an experience during not so long on this level of Otto Jess Gian but I was able to start to work in the same time I was doing school now at 16 years old at 17 I left the school completely and I started to work for an art gallery and the South gallery was a child scout ride and it was a Alfa Swedish Alf British living in Paris and he was a an extraordinary man with a very good vision very good eyes he was very good-looking very smart and very rich and not very rich I was thinking it was very rich at this time sorry and to come back to the context because at this time all this was looking impressive to me and and I was not started to work at this Gary just like walking for his er school because he was doing sauce poo it's a important school and he gets the right to do his last year's in two years and it was only 23 years and he asked me to to make some research for him me I was super bad for school like it was interesting but I come back to to with my research and I met the directors of the gallery and she told me oh I heard about you in manual it's great you are coming it's 4:00 p.m. you take the key and the alarm code and you close the gallery and you come back to more money and I was 17 years old alone in the gallery and I started like that it was really you know I didn't know anything but when I was lucky is we was walking with very interesting artists I did a solo show of Marina Abramovic I did give a bootie we was doing group show with Josh Kondo many many great artists you know considering the superior and considering the age of this dealer he was very smart and he protect me of many aspect very dangerous in the art world I heard it's a lot of young dealers here we have to talk about serious stuff be careful about the alcoholism in this business and because that destroys the life of this gentleman and it was very sad to see how much all the problem we are you know submit during our young carrier you know we go out every night we are we have invited on every cocktail you know and yes the by step we don't realize and that's why I don't ring her car and surprise everybody to not do it but when you you are witness of things very young like what I was witness it's you it's make you going out of that and this gallery yes was it extraordinary experience for me because I've seen many danger of spanning money or to be abusing of some artists was singing short terms and I always don't just let's set a small assistant but quickly the ladies was giving me many things to do and step by step at 18 years old from step by step yes at the end of Medina was directors of the gallery oh it was a small gallery it was nobody and I was lucky because we hired a woman with a lot of experience and she T tree but I was there before okay I was co-directors and and I don't know I was dressing well at this time I was looking a serious and the chance I get was to to have my mr. Cartwright was very shy he was not talking too much to the people and he's also he gets a very good ice for up but he have bad eyes and it was little bit dotty he didn't have his glasses I hope he will never see this video because it was not wearing his glasses it will keep his door off his office little bit open and he didn't stand up to go to say hello to the people look everybody was talking to me look step by step I was giving the feeling to be associate of the gallery and that 21 years old I offer him to do some show and he declined but he asked me to I was renovating I was making all so many job in the same time to assistant work because for sure I was paid very the lower salary possible I was doing many job and including to find Gary for other gallery we always paid one months of rental to find Gary space and but I was doing also renovation and it's a very good experience because you learn a lot for your own renovation I did after something like 18 space and you have experience to talk to to to to the company not to be abusing too much and well now I'm very abusing by then because I know I lose the faith to do good it's a long story I took too much don't your friends she asked me one question and it's finished one hours thirty sorry and doc we I was doing many renovation and including the renovation of his gallery and okay after the second space i renovate with all the people teach me to the way to renovate and it was fantastic people and we we make a new space additional to our main space and i was like i don't know why i was small dishes like that so crazy to imagine I will leave this space I in my mind i was i will go to do the program nation of this space it was already four years of experience you know why to to not do it myself i was paying myself to go to : yard fair call not fair at this time was a bigger offering the world before basil or i was going to also fair oh you know I I was taking the train I was paying myself the hotel just to to know much more and and finally he sells the list of this space ok was shocked I did i spending so much energy to do this space and it just sells the lease and the other gift he gave me it was this insecurity every Christmas just before to go to Christmas holidays he was telling me you know Emmanuel I think the Gary go to close don't send that to anybody because it's a little chance we stay open but I think we go to close now every Christmas I would say okay I cannot speak I cannot fight in your job but I'm not sure if I have a job though and I was like okay I have no oh so much experience but I was like okay I have to do my own gallery I was thinking let's do my own gallery I make all my economy and I was I was a specialist to make economy I was eating so less sometimes I was fell during conference I was participating I was a visit order of a conference by vim vendors and I was taking a video of it and I felt radically and you have the video when you hear everybody speak here but me because I was making economy on the food I was like that at this time I looks rich now and and and yes I was making my economy and finally I've taken an apartment was more expensive to what I was paid by my Jerry to make my gallery but I have to sell it show one by one if I was not selling them I will close and dock I was taken apart man I put my foot toe every morning I was putting in the closet you know and every night in the room and I'm arrived to to convince an artist he need a kind of studio in addition of his apartment he shares a rental with me to have one room of this apartment and and is it on a third floor of an apartment building okay I have to use my name because I was not allowed to give a Garry name at this time it was a shitty manual Peralta but that was the name and I started and I was doing some just before to open space sorry hmm I have a paper but is it only the not of its okay okay keep going my first activity was not to open a gallery I was in the parallel of the gallery job and with the agreement of my boss I was doing a mini catalog raisonne of artists because I was the one created a software for the gallery I was doing some Association of do to learn program nation when I was fifteen years old and and when I started at the Gary I said why we don't do a software for making catalogue raisonné it was black and white computers and and we did it I was doing one of the job I was doing was for awesome Museum and nebula Museum I was doing a some slideshow interactive don't you imagine 24 slide and the computers you said Monday boom he was going to once light of mother he looks for sure little with a low-tech now but it was at this time super exciting and and very impressive and I think I was at 17 years old with a ebay IBM computers with a green screen in my parents house and I was doing that for for them and I was not engineer I was just making sure I don't want to show off so much I was doing the what do you say let's easier for me yes you're putting the data in data thyroid exam was the after for my gallery I was doing the software and I start to offer services to other artists some artists I was not representing in this gallery or we was doing only group show for them and I did catalog resonate and some dealers was not so afraid by me okay I said can I sell their works in peril of you and said yes let's go in manually are so funny and I did it a little bit but you know some cell was very useful and I know I was doing that and after my first collaboration with artist was we Filipino Dominicans arrest first Obama Justine and Pierre Joseph and I invited a catalog a model of catalog the name was every chief catalog and I I bought a printer for 40,000 French francs a lot of money it was crazy it was a laser printer and my own computers black and white and I was doing the text on the paper you know and with an envelope and I was doing some pictures with just one a4 with many small pictures I was getting with Mexico it's called a guillotine actually in English sorry I was doing one by one pictures on the text but the text was able to have an evolution because and this time he was not doing so much project only Dominic concerns did some project by herself but he also did only project together we was promoted the project will come you know it was just a student in grown-up school when I met them and and this catalog was very useful because we was able to make to pretend they have a catalog or two people was visiting us and to to show something when it was ready at the starting point of their carrier for Philip I know never did a single piece at this time by himself he was not he was doing only works collaborative and that was my really first activity and after my first show was in collaboration with a dwama Reno after you open the Garry other pile and my apartment yes I have to say yeah who were the artists you represent I was trying to - it's a Philippe huh ok it's not like some gallery Philippe ah maybe you never heard about him but he was doing something interesting at this time he was making a kind of he was reactivate our tocqueville and after Cano is this poet books nephew of Oscar Wilde and he was a critics at the time of marcel duchamp data and it was very famous to realize the performance in 1911 in new york where he came he was invited by Pickers to do this it's a big trick fact because I'm very bad memory but he to make a to representing a enough critics from Paris and he arrived on stage covered by a taj a white cap thank you later sitting right next to do she stood up she it was very tall he was a champion of box you know and he stand up he come here and he make a striptease a strip tease in 1911 in the foot of death and everyone he clearly invited the performance and when he was if you did not like an artist he was bidding him not just with the words but also physically and it was a very interesting character he well it's a long story after kaavo we can talk about her to cover for hours but he was doing something around out to Cabo and it was interesting at this moment but to pretending to be somebody famous the problem was in which way to manage the fact it was started to be little bit famous in Paris and he didn't have the answer and okay stop to work with him because the work was looking strange after but he left to the more powerful Gary of France was at this time gallery booboo Pierre and Maya now it was not ready a failure but it was a choice because honestly I didn't know where was going the works and he was commercially very successful for a moment but I think I was right not to continue to continue what was your vision at the beginning for your gallery my vision was to understand clearly you know what a young galleries have to do is exactly the same of doctors you have to analyze this what is the problem what is the Sam tome of what you can do can change situation and at this time clearly all the gallery was focused or on artists quite famous or not doing any young artists the concept of young artists was very you know it was it was waiting to be 35 years old to be able to show at this time and and the bigger problem is it was producing the works on on very bankable artists it was not producing anything it was not helping artists to develop their works and we was at a moment where artists many of them did not want to do paintings you know no they have to develop some interactive artwork so some installation was quite expensive and now I was trying to find the resource to help them to produce them for at the very beginning it was not big Emma but it was very big amount for me and I was trying to find some collaboration with industrial or with a brand and and I was fighting technically at this time that anymore but to find some solution and I was doing the work sometimes for them and I was transforming some electric electronics works in a plug-and-play works for it's not too complicated for clients and some of them was making my my drama because they were sending back the works every years from Canada one one of them award from now in Turkey yokka WA it was a works electronics where it was a kind of metaphor the relation human relationship it was just a sense of was giving you the distance between you and the machine you know donkey was going just the numbers was the distance between you and the Machine and and this piece I've maybe lost a lot of money just to make this collectors at mrs. Kennedy and collectors happy and fortunately I never buy anything more for me you hear this talk it's very unfair to do that we're young dealers it was so little about and you make me going down for that but so continue on so you so my visual produce and how did you move on from your apartment gallery can tell us then how you have one hours 30 minutes week because well I'm told I'm sure long we have quite a long little topics because I speak too much sorry it's okay I'm don't worry young okay we my vision was to be quickly also international because it was impossible at this time to be a French dealers everybody was taking us for Joker for clearly and you was right because my country after the Second World War was a two Auto Center was too arrogant and we was not speaking English well like you hear and but at this time it was worse trust me and we everybody was thinking you know yes we are the center of the world and step by step we was just the worst market in the world and it was very important for for me to bring immediately international artists and I was in 1992 invited to do no 1983 sorry in 1993 I was invited to do an art fair in Japan I was very young dealers and because I opened my gallery in 1990 I started my activity in 1989 and 1990 I opened the gallery 93 I I do already my first art fair in Japan we share something with Japanese is we don't speak were English I was on my territory in world with them I bring in my works like all the the fair I did for many years at the beginning in my luggage and what artists did you take with you to Japan at this time Damien Hirst Mauricio tada I think you gave Damien Hirst his first show in France no no I'm sure commercial in the world in the world commercial yes big no Marie it was the first solo show it's a it's Damien give me the trick to set to set the first commercial show the show was programming in first and conceptually the show was for Damien the first because it was about human and after it was using animals but it was a it was autopsy room and we've photo of suicide people and scalpel and formal ID that was a solo show so group show I did first was in with us the first spot paintings and one of the first medical cabinet from 1989 and and so to collect Japan sorry I can do Damien because if we do Damien let's do them in Noble I was selling a spurt painting for one thousand medical cabinet for two thousand when I said I was selling before this count for sure you was able to have a good deal and one thousand dollars you know I was offering the self-portrait during the solo show with the IDI the capital IDI next week you see Damien smiling and the decapitated head next to him I was offering that for five hundred US dollars I buy for myself for $350 and yes this artist was I'm technically the only dealers in the world did not make money with his work you know I'm very proud of that you know it's kind of you know everybody feel I'm commercial but you see not so not you know and Damien was super supportive he was super nice and but the dealers in London they organized a nonprofit show on a space and at certain points they make me change my date to be the first show in London they certainly realized it was something strange the first search of Dave is happening in France no change for one month no guy was a singer but I was the first commercial show and I was so proud of that for so many years you know I will tell you that she tells that you know you see many years after I did not use this marry me but before you I was able to tell you that in the first two minutes of discussion you know it was a huge help for me to be able to speak about my fitness the first solo show of demeanors it was super nice with me I have a lot of gratitude for him and we stay in very good terms and yes we're 20 years after we decided to do a show again and finally I was maybe too too romantic to on my idea to do a great show of him and I refusing two or three show now maybe I regret I regret the first one he offer me it was I have to said yes and I do it but I didn't do it no that's fine we so Emmanuelle tell me while we before we finish the chapter of the beginnings what were the main challenges that you faced when you were starting out like every dealers now to stay up challenge we we face all the time in which way to find the rest of us to develop the gallery to stay open to to to get a private life reasonable and to it's it's a huge challenge and it would still do your challenge for a long time and at this time you have to imagine when we was promoting an artist we have to send an envelope with the slide an envelope with a chamber to have a chance that people will send you back the pictures because now as you read the send a stamped envelope or dress to have a chance it takes the time to go to the past to put the envelope and you get bags if there's a photo it was costing a fortune you know I was joking you know about my catalog evolutive but at this time to promote it artist looks fine I'm sure looks a grandfather now for you but yes we always talk about how much it's difficult now but it was always difficult I think for every dealers of the artists story it was difficult the fact is this business was down mash a big big big majority of the time by people rich you know they don't admit it's always a pretender kind of epic story but the majority of the time when you try to find the I they don't take their personal risk is it takes the money to risk for the money of the gallery they will have an apartment they will have something to feed the family in any case it's a real and I think it's new you know the to have dealers coming from without resource and it's it's not something so usual and and it's very hard and that internet helped you a lot you have access to the entire world with a very limited expense and that's make a big difference if you are talented if your artists are talented you know it's no reason used unknown you know it's a huge huge access you have at this time trust me it was like in wish where they will earn about me and the fact this Japanese dealers shy shisan security I see because he was very very important in my care he have this garys sky is a bad house in Tokyo and he was coming to my gallery because I was doing this work with this other artists quite famous on Fletcher EFP information fiction publicity genre Vil mood okay maybe you'd never heard about all these people but there was important at this time and it was very well connected with Japan and Shia she was coming to my gallery and he offered me a boost for free to do the fair for free but I have to pay the plane I have to pay the an apartment I found some apartment in very exotic area and and and then and I have to bring the works in my luggage and to do by myself the crystal I was a specialist of Houston at this time and and you hand you try to sell and I was very very exotic for Japanese because I was bringing work so an expensive she was like just a second are you sure because everybody was coming at this time with this idea of Japanese we go to screw them you know we screw them with impressionist we screw them with and we destroys our market for very long time but there was feeling strange this young guy bringing works by himself selling them at the same price to what he was selling in Paris don't get a Japanese guy buy a photo of Damien errors for a very inexpensive price he was not speaking in English I don't know if he knows what you have but one Damien are starring role in Japan somewhere somewhere can you continue on about the inn tonight because this is we told it's important because I yet Takeshi vacuum is ah that's how you met Murakami ha right you know that's why I do the first show outside Japan of no I can me and yes the guy don't speak English show up in my booth with many friends and you have a great energy and you take my hands and bring me to his booth I said oh my god it's what I've seen when I was visiting his affair and it was absolutely not what you know of me like a me and this time he was doing installation with a close with bowl of different sport and that have no relation but this is a crucial moment of my Kalia because yeah if you ask me what makes your gallery what it is now I can I can huge huge tape because for sure it was an adventure like this more immediately establish relations oh yes honey yes we was a was sending him a sweet question by Fox oh yes the first revolution before internet was fax you can joke that it was the first time we was able to send black-and-white pictures with a description and if it was giving you the confirmation she was able to send you a fax telling you I could find Wow huge joke with fax it was important remember sending a question in English and he was answering the elephant page of I keep I was keeping for very long time since the fact my systems with the garbage because it was white it was telling okay so young people understand that but at this time if you don't fix them with something when I was I'd need to keep the white page it's a really different white page which was a good sir but no it's it was incredible he gets a very tedious to do in New York City with a with the kind of organization and I I'm thinking large building in New York just before the opening of the fair Gramercy Park it was an outfit organized by a board Maurice pastor colleague Tyrone and let you box cutting their own American find our gallery and pattern was my godfather of the gallery it was extraordinary people Cody's Dena was an electrician great people to die various and and invited on these three tiers of the rest of the world and Tokyo Korea event leaves and the first my ignorance 90s feel like I was doing venture art is very terrible was just video and drawings and small structures but very very intense artists just to give you an example Avengers was already showing each other you know at this time if you see the difference of level we have but on just seven years of the fare taker she don't have this small studio and he came and he show me slide you know I saw some paintings in spirit by manga culture and I was like okay what the hell I never did any painters until that you know from 89 to 90 for never a painter and I was like why not to show them come with comes come with them tomorrow and let's show them in the on the fair and he brings the painting that he bring also t-shirt and now some people writing I was showing only t-shirt at this time no I was showing t-shirt and paintings but the t-shirt was the anticipation of one of the most successful scriptures he did this lady's press her breath and created me Milky Way mm-hm and look it was a t-shirt Abdi photovia sculptures we did not have the money to do on the white aura and and we shows that and oh it was a very strange for American because American didn't know not equal to for protection of the cartoon industry there was not importing Japanese capital in France we have all the reference because when I was children who was looking already a shoo-in spent was the same Japanese cartoon we understand the difference between American cartoon and Japanese cartoon and but for American it was so extraordinary it was so different aesthetically also and if fine media we find immediately for him a group show with a gallery this year this year with no max protect max protects you have a name like that DC or something like that at this time max Patek and a solo show with a very good gallery feature gallery at son he died also sorry to die young also and it was an extraordinary dealer he was doing Charles ray or Tom Friedman or people like that and Takeshi get a solution directly from this small presentation in Gary booth but I kept a fantastic relation with him and I was able to do only the solo show in 95 the first sort of show because you know selling this kind of paintings or drawings and you paid only the chipping you know at this time International shipping was very expensive it's another advantage to be a young Gary's now he's ticket off plane and and shipping less less expensive you don't take the same type of risk when I was started you know to do artists from Japan you know was looking like oh come on are you crazy and no it was a yes the vision was to be very international directly and so when did you open your first space outside France which was that one but for date but it was in oh yes I have something to remember it was something like 2002 or 2003 twas maybe 2003 we I was doing the fair in Miami and the first years of the freight was consul because it was a tragedy of September 11 if he can sell the fair but I was there with Maurizio Cattelan and doing the program because at this time when you're taking your ticket off plane and your hotel room I was paying the last less expensive possible dodge it was not refundable I was there with Mauricio and we we visit the program of museum and salons Anna was like joking with him like hmm we'd be great to do a gallery here it looks cool and it was a joke but I did it helping by a cat evade of your collectors of me and it was a great experience because my feeling was if I open in New York I will be killed by them you know they go to stole all my artists in five minutes I will be not ready to face all the legal aspects the Miami was fantastic because it's very slow you have time to sink there and if one of the problem we don't have is his business now is to sink you know don't forget Leo Castelli open at 50 years old and when he was coming to venice bienalle of symbolize that he was taking the boat they have time to sink at this time you know we don't have so much time and it's one of our problem you know we ran we you know we know we do this talk now and we know we have maybe 50 emails the time of this talk and I don't fear much spam my spirit email real one it's like that we are we feel guilty to be never as a white place right moment and nobody feel it's it's not normal you don't cross the world to go to one opening at this time it was much better for that and look what I was telling you can I'd asked you about which was your first opening yes a myrational it was a good success people imagine it was a failure because I closed it but I decided to close because I don't want to make my artists doing show when you did not have so much visitors every days it was great people at the night of the opening we was organizing fantastic barbecue with party with music and sing like that the gallery was absolutely gorgeous and where it was a success on the sensor so it was giving me more inventory to bring to art fair because some of the best gallery during our fair of the gallery don't sell in their gallery they have the best choice of their works when you do well your works in your gallery it's out of your best piece in the Art Fair and to have a gallery we don't sell so much can be a huge advantage now when people imagine oh god it was a rumor I was bankrupt at this time when I decided to close because if I closed the space because I was back with no it was a decision and I was very happy by this adventure and I learned a lot from that and dog I was better after I opened uncle yes I wanted to come onto that because then you had the Chinese adventure although that's all adventure she's good well yes you know I have to watch the time Hong Kong yes it was I have to sex itsuka Nakajima she's she was a directors in my career in Paris she's a friend Japanese and we was working together for a long time and she need to go to live in Asya she started to live in Korea and in a plane together with brainstorms a fact it will be important we open a gallery nausea and her and me never visiting Hong Kong in our life but we decide strategically it was Hong Kong and at this time ago Jean and nobody was open yet except Ben Brown you know anyway yes of parents intact you know and no we're thinking Hong Kong is a hub for Asia it was for many reason logic you don't have to visiting to understand geostrategy aspect and is that ok let's go to Hong Kong to to see and we hired a fantastic lady is very ambitious and Alice lang she's a Taiwanese Chinese Korean she she speak many language and and we visiting space with visiting small space in the beginning big space and very big space and finally we take a very nice space on the 17th floor now maybe I can do this little bit on that's Paris we go - we don't have Miami because for sure it's not actuality now you have a beautiful 18th century building more recent building just in the back you see I a bookstores and office in the courtyard that's a ballroom we have on the next to the on the 60 of the ritual where we have 700 meter squares of show room to be able to show all our artists in the same time as at the garden of this showroom and that one coming okay now gives it on the 17th floor and on the front of the four season hotel and and this is a more expensive real estate in the world on Konya this is $100,000 by months the rental it's not simple to open a gallery in Hong Kong you need to be very yes to put all your money on the red you know I was gambling all my life and and hook we opened this gallery and we try to do a space I don't know if you see on the the window but you can see all the Bay of Hong Kong it's absolutely not a cross turf a big space like all the other space in Hong Kong and you know it's not very terrible to set that because unfortunately they don't have window don't get difficult for that not to be claustrophobic and and we did this crazy move to open a gallery of GCL there and and same strategy we were selling the same kind of artists same price to Paris and with a vision to not adapting ourselves to the context but to try to make the people interesting about what we are doing and and all the time was my shiny is a team was telling me yes but in China house if you don't do that they don't understand that they don't say yes but what's the point to open a gallery to us open a gallery there if we acting like everyone and let's do our way and we will see if it's work or not and from artists and about subprogram nation they was telling me that they never heard about that yes but let's try doing out fair and you will see and and step by step some of the artist was totally against we show them in Hong Kong it was like can we do a show of him and he was like yes let's do it because during the fair they get some interest and for sure it's an adventure where you only make your artist growing you know it's not like when you take only bankable artists than you you you you you pay dolls you know many of the show organized don't pay the all the expense of the gallery we expect to just you know developing them and one days it will be maybe the source of revenue helping the gallery to to paid for the other and that was always the way except at the very beginning when I have only unlockable artists when everyone because Maurizio Cattelan and Takeshi I started with Mauricio in 1992 both of them we were spending 10 years together to to make very odd job before to be able to be profitable it was not easy and that was my chance because if Damian us was a big star six months after because Jean said she paid him is a production cost for a Chuck make him a big artist Takeshi and Mauricio was unsuccessful for a long time and I get the time to show my dedication for them my Maya has also sacrificed I was doing for them I was it was a great adventure but I was led you know I was lucky they give me the chance to to to show my my help you know because sometimes you know artists want to move quickly from one gallery to another but we build a very strong relation to my own patent it's not space or Sinai's that I go to show you pictures of space but to be honest a relation with artists is a more important no doubt we can speak about the organization we can speak about my software but in any case the choice of the artists is more important and the relation you have with them and to be able to show during 10 years to an artist you make the choice to to work for them and not for yourself is the best you you can do because many gallery make choice of short terms because yes it's so difficult you you take the risk to close every month you know you are in many many many occasion you have some proposal from people buying a twenty pcs or doing this and this for you to help you to help you yes to help you to put you in trouble with your artist in six months later so five years laters but it will kill your relation with the artist and you have to send no and you have to and you have to refusing to do to push the price too quickly to refusing to you know the production cost on many of my artists was so expensive to show you these famous sculptures on the t-shirt the creation of the Milky Way Milky Way of America me these scriptures I was offering it for twelve thousand dollars I was not able to sell it for twelve thousand dollars I was selling it for ten thousand dollars in 96 and in 1996 we spending only eight thousand dollars of production cost this kind of piece now will be minimal 300,000 or 400,000 production cost but at this time we was able to do it at $8,000 $8,000 you give you sell it for 10,000 you give 1000 to me like a me I keep 1,000 to pay what is it shipping you know it's you know and shipping for 1000 today no I was doing a FedEx crates we've also shown inside including these sculptures was not this one but the male version was 15 millions dollars in auction not you you imagine the FedEx emanuelle you've been talking about the relationship with artists now you do 21 art fairs a year you are globe Tropic trotting you have to be going there on your booth 35 show but I have to tell you in 2018 we was doing 45 show yes I'll correct it the next time right how do you maintain this you know with your life with your globe-trotting with your necessity to oversee so many fairs your different spaces around the world how do you maintain a relationship with your artist oh well thanks to internet first you know again we we can have Skype we can have I travel a lot don't have a lot of meeting and for sure it's a romantic vision of the art dealers of the 19th century but this vision you can keep it you can develop your gear realize that to have a twenty artists and to to speak with them every week and to to ever to us we assistant or one assistant only it's a it's a fantastic way to have a gallery and I never judge that you know and it's great you know don't confuse me and for sure you need to be ready to see your artist living you each time they will start to have success and to find you one it was fantastic dealers like that when it was pushing the artists out of the gallery telling them oh my god you know you are too big for me now maybe it's better I find you a better gallery it was great you know but you need to assume that and I was afraid to lose my artist and we still have the shadows every dealers in the world have the shadows of another artist ready to take your artists you know and I have to expand you know if I did not expand if I did not offer more and more services to my artists it's not just a question of space it's much more about the quality of the services you offer to provide it the staff to be able to to to work for them enough to to find new way to twelves then because it's very difficult for artists you know the modem time of an artist is very complicated when you say services what sort of things are you doing favoritest you you you you build for show archive you promoted the show you help them to produce the works on certain case you you help to make them more famous all around the world who will bring some of the artists I was bringing in Hong Kong or in in New York at the time I did it no one was interesting you know some of my artists like Paola pivi we get some offer to have Paola pivi exhibit in New York for example but it was ready to take what the artists proof of the works who was taking the risk to produce it was not taking the risk to to have an artist telling you I need a three thousand cappuccino cap and a lay up and alive to do a works in my crystal bezel Museum show oh yes what do you go to do is that let's see okay now you paid that you know you paid to see what she will do and to give for example the artist proof of a photo like that you feel oh I'm taking so much risk I need ten thousand liters of lip cream and he got caught alive okay looks great for the Miami show you know and don't this kind of artist you know if I make a joke about a parisian galleries in the after the were New York gallery was little a little bit in the same position now and maybe I go to make a big situation they was feeling long times it was in the center of the world they have everybody coming to them they don't have so much showroom she was receiving people selling the show and that's it it's enough and and that's why many of the bigger dealers now in New York on European because we come with less it was less easy for us before we came and now it was in it's more easy for us to acting on this territory because it's very competitive but finally it's maybe in looks crazy to set something like that it's if you see the numbers and oh maybe they feel to be American now or the Swiss America and Britain galleries in New York but there was originally European but to come back what yes well now I want I want to move on to something that we discussed when we were preparing this talk was that you said that you felt that actually few galleries are really internationalizing yes it changed quickly many many gallery now want to open spot everywhere but you feel that the art trade has not internationalized the way other industries have yes yes if you take 30 years ago a brand luxury brand of clothes it was what four five names of city on the baguette then we was like move four five city thirty years ago only it's nothing it's crazy looks you have thousand of shop around the world now just in China the other and the up Gary was this business sinking we have to stay like at the 19th century again I respect this way to work but for sure and all the gallery was existing some of them was big do we have to always walking for them building artists and seasoned going to this care I was expecting to resist you know and to find a way open a gallery noncom was one of the way I found you know to bring them to also territory and to open in Seoul after in Korea what was looking crazy nobody was opening a gallery and soul from not Korean you know and we did it like that with many city but we try also we was doing so many art fair you know very early in time I was doing by myself you know I was doing for example New York and Chicago Outfit I have just two days in between and I was taking all the outfits in my luggage for the to fair I don't know which I was doing and one night I are spending between the two night I was spending the night in the hospital because I get here problem is a plane and I have to go to hanging the work some Chicago Art Fair you know and you are alone you know you you you need to do it like that you know the to fair alone two weeks and so now with how many spaces have you got I'm in six six six cities yes 21 art first that's sure I the last one is your vision still the vision you had at the beginning when you started out what has changed in the way that you're working what changed that what change and that the finally I do too much digression and I don't said what I want to said but let's think about you know it's my food it's totally my foot there is a big difference like Gary like me and and smaller gallery is I give a lot of opportunity to my assistant to my directors to my partner to expand with me and about this relation with artists if I don't have the same relationship of young dealers with the artists I have maybe ten assistant in my era able to open a gallery by themself there are smart people they are very good yeah they have a good energy a good sense of everything they share with me some of them 22 years 18 years 16 years now they are there for very long time and we know exactly what to do together and these people you know the maximum numbers of artists they share since they have the responsibility are six artists and they have maybe two or three assistant directly for them long they have a lot of time to speak with them and they have all the organization around we are 132 people and we we don't we have specialists for shipping we have people for PR we have people for internet we have people for software they are really dedicated on them they are not they don't have to the only fair of their continent they don't have to go to if they go is because they want to go if they go to Miami Art Fair for example why is they want to go to Miami Art Fair we don't know that they don't have the obligation if they are in Paris to go there the American team take care of them don't they they get already better personal life from that they don't have to run like in a smaller gallery everybody running everywhere I was doing this weekend to Art Fair Taiwan out fair and San Francisco I was just at the opening of San Francisco I'm absolutely not necessary in fact the fair was the most successful was the one in Taiwan where I was not and and that the point is we have to trust our assistant we have to trust our directors we have to take the risk to put them on a stage and they go to quit you to open their own gallery it's happening to me some of them I tell them yes you will have always made to open and some of them come back you know because finally the experience was not so good and and this is yes a challenge one of the more important challenge after the choice of the artist is the relation with assistant when I said assistant is director of partner everyone and this is so crucial my chance it was to have a very bad accident in 2001 in a motorcycle accident make put me in the hospital for a long time and I have to tell to my assistant you know yes you have to take I change hospital to be close to the gallery and there was coming every day's to the hospital to ask me after I come back to my own my home was by Gary you know 90 meter squares the gallery my room was my office and the vast room kitchen Toinette was 404 meter square maybe maybe 3 3 meter square and donkey I was living in this conditional at this time you know when I come back from the hospital every night the answering machine was running you know because it was difficult to take a rest but but this motorcycle accident was a chance because yes one of my two assistant I have in this time said she was so scary when I come back to the gallery she resign on the job and the other one Naiya the person lead my guru in New York it's Peggy LaBeouf and and she when she start to my gallery she have only one day's experience in another gallery only one day's she was not speaking in English and she was read if she was talking to her okay she was very shy but step-by-step she's learning English like me and now she run again New York what is strange but she worked with me for 22 years and Emmanuelle I'm going to stop you there because we have an audience that I'm sure how questions that no I've been warned to keep my to keep to the timing and we would like to throw up why not I've loved all you reveal here all day if you have questions please wait for the microphone there's a hand there already please wait as we're being recorded can somebody take the microphone over here please oh thank you thank you son thank you very much dirty now you merci beaucoup amen amen as I said with the Irish poet bosom I guess too awful oh she will oscillate okay all right make it brief harsher well my first in there was yes oh that's good oh we don't have a translator okay I understand English my question was about when did you realize you needed a team and you couldn't do it by yourself or that when did you accept that you couldn't do it by yourself I was driven to achieve the first day no doubt it's the poorest to the way - I get in tears you know I get a system but yes you need you need to have team but you need I did mistake for some aspect to not taking enough team quickly we didn't speak about my software but my software was a key moment of my diary and I've taking a programmer only 11 years ago but at this you know my 11 years ago was not able to pay more to one it was there but I I've taken too long before to understand I need to take five or ten of them and now I have 12 programmer full-time because it's so slow so to get what you want you know and so what in your program is doing my yes that's what I try to my god it's not my computer's great you did not okay well my software is I the name is the manager and the manager you know what do you prefer to be screaming by an assistant or by your directors or do you prefer a software screaming on you okay you see all the red point with the numbers you know that told to my assistant what they have to do you know what they didn't do enough quickly for some of them is after 21 days if they didn't do that 21 days why because it's complicated it's the software tell them you have to do it and if they don't do it I see it let's break brother situation if you dig browser but no that's the opposite that's you know you have such control you have some dealers and I will try to be natural not to set the name calling the assistant every day is every sellers ten times by is day why did you do for me today you know I don't have to ask that because I have this you know every day is I see all the piece on reservation all the piece in I put it you know some works very inexpensive like that's the camera that was yesterday you see son as no as Saturday yes and some you see the photo of the of the sellers you see the photo of the buyers you see the margin you see the discount you give thanks God they didn't give discount and you see the work you see some of works have already five reservation well it looks ok and that was a show started Saturday and and I can make comments I can make easily and we reducing the numbers of female because everything happening in the software we can I can place comments I can place again you know I see the second step is so request when you sell but you not have yet the address of invoice and the third step is the invoice you know and I can see I can follow I can know if everything is done on the benefit of everyone the art is a gallery because sometimes you know you can have some when you have a lot of stuff you know for sure some of them can prefer to sell in bad condition to not sell at all because they have percentage on the sell for sure this system helped me to follow everything and we have some for example ok in which when you follow 6 Gary around the world but you have a system to to decide all the data everywhere in the world and I try to find a place where it's nothing confidential and and fed following the fashion week in Paris or the auction in New York or don't we have all the early days of my daughter's you know very all my assistant knows the early days of my daughter's it's very important and and we can fix things you know like nice and we know exactly where we are on the program you know and you develop the software I started that at my 18 years old and and I work every day's on it certainly at the end of the day with some message that is something I'm very proud in which way to make your team feeling to be part of the problem a ssin also not just you know ok long time before I have always my assistant between two doors telling me this artists look on my telephone it's fantastic everybody talking about him we have to run quickly ok it's you know you cannot work like that you know it's not possible you don't decide for an artist like that you know it's you have to take time you have to make it small no we decide to merge all the website of this artist on our website now call my assistant offer an artist go to to make the website of this artist merging all the other one you know we know everything about this artist sometimes we have a better website it's I promise you which time I make the demonstration people off off surprise we have a better website for artists we don't represent and say I'm serious it looks crazy but it's true and you know 45 people in my yard receive an alert telling them you have to vote for an artist they don't know who proposed this see image they see a range of prices see many aspects and they can said between one to five what the emerge they like it they can make comments they can set if they sing it's a show for New York of Hong Kong they can they can give the opinion and the software digest all this information and when we have a Directors meeting and the place to see one person giving his opinion and imposed his opinion to all the other one because the first one speak in general you know if the other one are influenced it can be influencing you know that's why I said they don't know who proposed three artists because that influence also your assistant don't you you see a rate you see and but it's okay is it a little bit democratic in my gallery but it's not completely democratic sometimes I impose an artist I really like and finally as I said you have a miter stand but sometimes zine puts me an artist because you clearly in you know but you don't do a gallery in six city I want the world without too less express there and I have great people I have to weigh I cannot set that enough and and you know but I see from the software if the key people of the gallery pushing these artists make good comments about it and who I am to decide you know maybe I'm you know they they are sometimes maybe with a very good inspiration and my gallery need to be developing without me I'm just a chef dorkiest but if one of the musician make an interesting you know why I would be stupid not to do to follow that I'm going to take another question because otherwise we've run out of line oh there there's another hand that he called coming they can set if they like it or not we can see thank you hello Georgina and hello um well I'm not an art either but I have a question regarding obviously perotin you represent a lot of really hot artists right now with the law of demand like my sake Morecambe me like you surprised certainly everyone to set my second first name but I can see your league well cause artists like that Chris obviously with the new technology like art see a lot of these artists have a lot of demand and you sell them in the primary market and a lot of these artists end up in the secondary market very quick and at much higher prices would you say like one of the the jobs that you handle with is like positioning these pieces so this does not happen or FICO because as a client or well as a collector I see it like as one of the biggest problems right now in the art market it's a nightmare when you are young dealers but it's also a nightmare when you are big dealers because you know our artists on that factory and we don't push them to overproducing magicky is easy to produce works okay but many of them it's not so easy and each time the pressure of the market is very difficult it's Meg you know for all of them from one day to another to sell everything and to to have a lot of people demand works and to see man Zeki make one hundred twenty thousand dollars in auction you know my only you know my only comments was to laughing you know what well you know and yes it's it's a nightmare for everyone for well it's a good it's a good problem let's say I it's a problem of fridge but you know we have somebody in the middle of this public sent me letters just before to come to this fair and she recognized herself easily telling me honored she was disappointed because on the show of mister we have last Saturday she asked us three weeks ago the list of the works and now all the paintings are sold and I was not able to offer her paintings but only drawings and it's so unfair because no no no no okay she's right I did not answer look I take the opportunity to answer to your email you are right it's unfair but the life is completely unfair for everything it's like for ticket of concept and everything what can I do yes we have to place yes we have so much you know if you have a green shoe in Paris you have to try to give a chance to the French audience to buy the works yeah and the person tell me I don't know if is it you or somebody else forgot but when when the show of jobs failing happening in America you tell us it's for American clients and now it's in Paris I have no access yes it's not you it's somebody else because it was a Parisian collectors in my dinners tell me and I didn't get access to mr. Toulon put him in Paris true I know it's very you know complicated and and yes it's a problem to have it's a good problem to have and competently managed to me and okay at the level of my magic it's okay it's all fine well that's all event of course for sure it's like it's happening for Catalan formula I mean for every artist I get with huge success America Mori at certain time or also one that you have a moment where all this happening to you you you when you you are in your studio and you're working on an art works and you have to feel oh my god in auctions this is a price of this work now I have to considering that it's not easy for them to but they expect from us we do the minimum of mistake to place the works on collection will not come back in action quickly and yes it's difficult because trust me so the worst people want to speculate on the artworks have the more evaluate speech to give you to convince you to sell to them do you black please blacklist it for sure I'm like Terry's yes another question another question are there any more questions for the what hasn't notaries make the comments when he was yeah oh that there are no more questions yes I can see ya guys people and some of these people sometimes can come back we have to give them sometimes a chance because yes some people sometimes want to have the proof you know if we are not matter of you know in a way sometimes some good collectors resell a piece in auction just to reassure them you know Melanie has a question thanks Georgina Thank You Manuel that was super super interesting so I am here just wanted to pick up on something you said about your Miami space but you you said that you closed it because there weren't enough people coming apart from to the opening yes the logical conclusion of that is if you don't have enough people coming to your gallery you should close it is that something you agree with generally yes what's the difference between Instagram and our gallery it will give a life experience you know we give you know the difference between music live and music on your computers you know you can judge it's totally different problems if you know Art Fair are very important and will stay important but people coming for one day they ran from ones boost to as user you cannot expect to teach them new artists you will do only your bankable artists if he was acting only from outfit if you still doing young artist and I just take an artist from Cape Town from a Township in Cape Town of 28 years old we we we need to help these people to learn the works to to understand to Cesar works in real and I don't go to spend the energy of my team to a gallery not have visitors I feel it's unfair you know it's unfair for my artists and also for my team we get in 2018 two hundred and seventy-five thousand visitors worldwide I don't set these numbers by chance we have mesh into counting the public automatic machine and they are placed on the position where the the staff don't we are not counting yeah unfortunately is accounting but we we do a little bit on we we have the less audience in in insole and fortunately or it was a strategy at the beginning to make the gallery very VIP or something that maybe we go to change let's see but but I'm very proud to have a lot a lot of visitors we have an average in Paris for 450 people by day and for show of unknown artists sometimes you know in New York it's huge we have a great great great audience and it's very important for me and don't yes it's important the gallery space is important for me we you know I don't think luxury brands stopped to open shop around the world they are for sure selling a lot a lot on the on the internet but the experience to Caesar's the clothes are very important and then on the ID market I don't think the shop got to disappear quickly I don't want to be caught in ten years you know but let's say right now it's okay I think we're going to have to end on that because we need to respect our our timings thank you very much indeed in annual for a fascinating talk [Applause] [Music]
