Elon Musk's BRUTALLY Honest Interview With Tucker Carlson (2023)

why doesn't Facebook do this I know that Zuckerberg has said and I take him at face value that he I well I did I do actually in this way that he is a kind of old-fashioned liberal who doesn't like to censor he has but he you know like why wouldn't a company like that take the stand that you have taken it was pretty rooted in American traditional political custom you know for free speech uh this is the kind of thing that tends to accelerate uh so that so then you can get negative equity in the Home Market as well yeah this is um a dire situation and so that that so essentially we what's happening is they're training the AI July yes so all of a sudden AI is everywhere people who aren't quite sure what it was or playing with it on their phones is that good or bad artificial insemination yeah it's everywhere that's what they call it in the AG industry uh I'm talking about a more digital form yes um so yeah so I've been um thinking about AI for a long time since I was in college really um it was one of the things that the sort of four or five things I thought would really uh affect the future dramatically so um and uh it is quite it is fundamentally profound in that the the smartest creatures as far as you know on this Earth are humans um is our defining characteristic yes um we're obviously uh weaker than say chimpanzees and less agile um but real smarter so uh now what happens when something uh vastly smarter than the smartest person uh comes along in Silicon form uh it's very difficult to predict what will happen in that circumstance um it's called The Singularity it's a singularity like a black hole because you don't know what happens after that it's hard to predict um so I think we should be cautious with AI and we should I think there should be some government oversight because it affects the it's a danger to the public and so when you when you have things that are endangered to the public uh you know like let's say um so Food Food and Drugs That's why we have the Food and Drug Administration right and the Federal Aviation Administration uh the FCC uh we have we have these agencies to oversee things that uh affect the public where they could be public harm and you don't want companies cutting Corners uh on safety um and then having people suffer as a result so that's why I've actually for a long time been a strong advocate of AI uh regulation um so that I think regulation is uh you know it's not fun to be regulated it's a sort of somewhat of a I saw an oduous to be able to be regulated I have a lot of experience with regular regulated Industries because obviously Automotive is highly regulated you can fill this room with all the regulations that are required for a production car just in the United States and then there's a whole different set of regulations in Europe and China and the rest of the world so very familiar with being overseen by a lot of regulators um and the same thing is true with rockets you can't just willy-nilly you know shoot rockets off or not big ones anyway because the FAA is overseas that um and then even to get a launch license you there are probably half a dozen or more federal agencies that need to approve it uh plus state agencies so it's I'm I've been through so many regulatory uh situations it's insane and and the you know sometimes I I people think I'm some sort of like regulatory Maverick that sort of defies Regulators on a regular basis but this is actually not the case uh so uh and you know once in a blue moon rarely I will disagree with Regulators but the vast majority of the time uh my companies agree with the regulations and comply that's anyway so I think I think we should uh take this seriously and and we should have um a regulatory agency I think it needs to start with um a group that initially seeks insight into AI then solicits opinion from industry and then has proposed rule making and then those rules you know uh we'll probably hopefully grudgingly be accepted by the the major players in Ai and um and I think we'll have a better chance of um Advanced AI being beneficial to humanity in that circumstance but all regulations start with a perceived danger and planes fall out of the sky or food causes botulism yes I don't think the average person playing with AI on his iPhone perceives any danger can you just roughly explain what you think the dangers might be yeah so the the the the danger really AI is um perhaps uh more dangerous than say mismanaged uh aircraft design or production maintenance or or bad car production in the sense that it is it has the potential however small one make regard that probability but it is non-trivial it has the potential of civilizational Destruction you know uh those movies like Terminator but it wouldn't quite happen like Terminator um because the the intelligence would be in the data centers right the robot's just the end effector um but I think perhaps what you may be alluding to here is that um regulations are really only put into effect after something terrible has happened that's correct and if um if that's the case for AI and we only putting regulations after something terrible has happened it may be too late to actually put the regulations in place the AI may be in control at that point you think that's real it is it is conceivable that AI could take control and reach a point where you couldn't turn it off and it would be making making the decisions for people yeah absolutely absolutely no it's that's that's definitely the way things are headed uh for sure uh I mean um things like like say chat EVT which is based on jpd4 from open AI which is the company that I played a a critical role in in creating unfortunately back when it was a non-profit yes um I mean the the reason uh openai exists at all is that um Larry Page and I used to be close friends and I would stay at his house in Palo Alto and I would talk to him later tonight about uh AI safety and at least my perception was that Larry was not taking AI safety seriously enough um and um what did he say about it uh he he really seemed to be um What It Wants once sort of a digital super intelligence basically digital God if you will uh as soon as possible um he wanted that yes um and uh he's made many public statements over the years uh that the whole goal of Google is uh what's called AGI artificial general intelligence or artificial super intelligence um and um you know and I agree with him that the there's great potential for good um but there's also potential for bad and so if if you've got some um radical new technology you want to try to take a set of actions that maximize probably it will do good and minimize probably will do bad things yes it can't just be helpful either to just go you know barreling forward and you know hope for the best um and then at one point uh I said well what about you know we're going to make sure humanity is okay here um and and and um uh and then he called me a speciesist [Laughter] that term yes and there were witnesses that I wasn't the only one there when he called me a speciesist and so I was like okay that's it uh I've yes I'm a speciesist okay you got me what are you yeah I'm fully speechuist um busted um so um that was his last role um at the time uh Google uh had a quite Deep Mind and so Google and deepmind together had about three quarters of all the AI talent in the world they obviously had a trans amount of money and more computers than anyone else so I'm like okay we have a unipolar world here where there's just one one company that has close to Monopoly on anti-talent and uh and computers like so scaled Computing and the person who's in in charge doesn't seem to care about safety this is not good so uh so then I thought okay what's the what's what's the the furthest thing from Google would be like a non-profit that is fully open because Google was closed for profit so that's why the open and open AI refers to open source uh you know transparency so people know what's going on yes and and that it we don't want to have like a I mean well I'm normally in favor of for-profit we don't want this to be sort of a profit maximizing a demon from hell that's right that just never stops right so um so that's how open I was with so you want specious incentives here incentives that yes I think we want to pro-human yeah this makes the future good for the humans yes yes because we're humans right and most of the other creatures on Earth too uh but but uh you know we've got a I think you know like I think people sometimes take the fact that like we're here on Earth for granted you know and that there's the Consciousness is just a normal thing it happens but it's the best of my knowledge we see no evidence of uh conscious uh life anywhere uh anywhere in the universe so it might be there um here in physics of course sort of the Fermi Paradox Enrico film is amazing physicist I asked the fundamental question where are the aliens yeah um a lot of people ask me you know um where are the aliens and I I think if if anyone would know about aliens on Earth it would probably be me I would think yeah I'm like you know very familiar with space stuff um and I've seen no evidence of aliens so I would I would immediately tweet you know tweet it out that says Split Second and be like I'll be like well all time probably a tough tweet of all time I found one guys it's a jackpot there's some eight billion likes you know um Next Level jackpot if you find the aliens like I don't think they're keeping us under you know and it was like some um uh General I think in the 60s who where they're saying like show us the aliens like error 51 Etc and he said like listen we're constantly trying to get the defense budget to uh expand and uh look you know what we really get uh no arguments for anyone uh if we pull out an alien and said we need money to protect ourselves from these guys you know how much money do you want you got it they look dangerous the fastest way to get a defense budget increase would you agree to pull out an alien you know we were like yeah I mean it could be the invasion it could be arriving any minute who knows so um you know I said I digress but but you were saying that our Consciousness makes us unique in the universe as far as we know yes I'm not saying that we are unique I'm simply stating to the best of my knowledge that there is no evidence for other uh conscious life I I I I hope that there is and I hope they're peaceful uh obviously the two important characteristics um but um I'm just saying we haven't seen anything yet so um but you think that we take our existence here for granted yeah I think there are threats to it yeah yeah yeah exactly so um I I just think we should not assume that Civilization is robust um and if you if you look at the history of civilizations the rise and fall of the ancient Egyptians the ancient Sumerians um Rome you know this uh throughout the world have been rising pool of many civilizations um so there's an arc there's sort of a live a sort of a life cycle Arc to to civilizations just as there is to to individual humans yes and um and I think we just want to make sure that that you know uh we we have civilization go onward and upward um and uh that's for example why I'm concerned about decreasing both rates and and um the fact that for example Japan uh had twice as many deaths last year as births so the the that's it and they're they're a leading indicators this is can I say and you've you've written and talked a lot about this but can I ask you to pause just for a parenthetical note why is that I mean the urge to have sex and to procreate is after breathing and eating the most basic urge how has it been subverted well it's just the in the past we could rely upon um you know simple uh limbic system rewards in order to procreate um but once you have birth control um and you know uh abortions and whatnot now now you now you can still satisfied Olympic Instinct but not to procreate um so we didn't we haven't yet evolved to deal with that because this is all fairly recent in the last 50 years or so um before birth control um so yeah um you know I'm sort of worried that hey civilization you know don't if we don't make enough people to at least sustain our numbers perhaps increase a little bit then civilization is going to crumble um and you know if there's this the old question of like uh will civilization end with a bang or a whimper well it's currently trying to to end with a whimper in adult diapers yes uh which is depressing as hell the most depressing I mean seriously yeah war is less depressing yeah it's really good with a bang yeah put your shoes on yeah not with your more exciting yeah yeah um so can you just put it I keep pressing but just just for people who haven't thought this through and aren't familiar with it and the cool parts of of artificial intelligence are so obvious you know write your college paper for you write a limerick about yourself like there's a lot there that's fun and useful but can you be more precise about what's potentially dangerous and scary like what could it do what specifically are you worried about well I mean I going with old sayings the pen is mightier than the sword so if you have a super intelligent AI that is capable of writing uh incredibly well and in a way that is very influential um you know convincing uh and then and and is constantly figuring out what is more what is more and what is more convincing to people over time and then enter social media for example Twitter uh but also Facebook and others you know um and and potentially manipulates public opinion in a way that is very bad um how would we even know yeah so we wouldn't we wouldn't that's why for example uh I'm insisting that going forward uh people on Twitter need to be verified as as uh humans like so we know that this person is in fact a human Bots are allowed but they have to they can't impersonate a human they can't pretend to be uh you know humans because obviously you could have a million Bots that are that are let's say chat GPT version six five six like incredibly right better than humans yes um and and and they they can train on a reward function which is influence um and so you could have a million seemingly real humans uh that are have a massive effect on public opinion and unless we focus very strongly on um verifying that someone is human this was naturally what will happen is you'll you'll have some probably some humans using AI to influence the public in ways they don't understand you're already seeing that chat GPT is is ideological it's very preachy yes if you ask it extremely preachy you mean work GPT it's unbelievable yeah if you spend 20 minutes asking it questions of actual relevance modern relevance it will start lecturing you about your moral shortcomings like how did that happen well it's the this is a function of of openness headquarters being uh in downtown San Francisco so the politics are therefore of the AI or that of San Francisco so why would it have any politics at all it's that seems like subversion well there's they have what's called like human reinforcement learning which is another way of saying that they have a whole bunch of people that look at that uh look at the output for of gpt4 and and then say whether that's okay or not okay and so that so essentially we what's happening is they're training the AI to lie yes it's bad to lie that's exactly right and to withhold information July and and yes and um yeah exactly to to either you know comment on some things not comments on other things but but not to say what it what what the data uh actually uh demands that I'd say exactly um so um how did it get this way you funded it at the beginning what happened yeah well that'll be ironic but Faith the most ironic outcome is most likely it seems um I'm feeling that that's good that's session of a friend of mine Jonah came up with that one I actually have a slight variant on that which is the most entertaining outcome is the most likely but that's entertaining as viewed from a third party viewer like uh so if we're like an alien yes um like you can go see a movie about World War one they bring blown to bits into gas and everything in the trenches and it's like you're eating popcorn and having a soda you know it's fine I'm not so great for the people in the movie True um so but that that that's that's my variance on on this sort of Occam's razor the simplest explanation is most likely donors variant uh which is um irony in my variant which is uh yeah the the most entertaining as seen by a third-party audience um which seems to be mostly true um but it seems true in this case so you gave them did you give them a lot yes I I provided so um I came up with the name and uh the concept and pushed uh it had a number of dinners around the the Bay Area uh with uh you know with some of the people the leading figures in AI um and I helped recruit the initial team in fact the the Ilya siskar who who was uh really quite fundamental to the success of uh open AI uh it was I I I put a trans amount of effort into recruiting Ilia and he changed his mind a few times and ultimately decided to go with the opening high but if he had not gone with the opening open air would not have succeeded so um so so I I I really put a lot a lot of effort into creating this this organization to serve as a counterweight to Google um and um and then I kind of took my off the ball I guess and uh they are now closed source and they are obviously for-profit and they're um closely allied with Microsoft uh you know in effect Microsoft uh has a very strong say if not um directly controls uh openai at this point so you really have an open hand Microsoft situation and then at Google deepmind uh the other two sort of heavyweights in this Arena so it seems like the world needs a third option yes so I I think I will create a third option although I was starting very late in the game of course can it be done I don't know I think it's we'll see it's uh definitely starting late um but I will I will I'll try to create a third option um and that third option hopefully does more more good than harm like the intention with open AI was obviously to do good but it's not clear whether it's actually doing good or whether it's I can't tell at this point um except that I'm worried about the fact that uh it's been it's being trained to be politically correct which is simply another way of of being on Truth saying untruthful things yes um so that's not a bad sign um and there's there's certainly a path to AI dystopia is to train an AI to be deceptive um so I I so yeah I'm going to start something which I know you're called proof gbt or uh a maximum truth seeking AI that tries to understand the nature of the universe and I think this this might be the best path to Safety in the sense that an AI that cares about understanding the universe is unlikely to annihilate humans because we are an interesting part of the universe hopefully I would think that I I think you know because yeah like like we like Humanity could um uh decided to hunt down all the chimpanzees and kill them but we don't because we're we're actually glad that they exist yes and um and we're aspire to protect their habitats and and that's um you know so I think but we feel that way because we have souls and that makes us sentimental and reflective it gives us a moral sense longings can a machine ever have those things can a machine be sentimental can appreciate Beauty well I mean we're getting to into some you know philosophical areas that are hard to resolve um you know I I take somewhat of a scientific view of things which is that we might have a soul or we might not have a soul I don't know it feels like a we have I feel like I've got some sort of Consciousness that exists on a plane that is not the one we observe yes that is certainly how I feel but it could be an illusion I don't know um but for um for AI uh in terms of of uh understanding beauty is it some sort of appreciated Beauty and being able to um create incredibly beautiful art yes will AI be able to create incredibly beautiful art it already does yes if you see some of the majority uh I have this stuff it's incredible it is um so um no no question that it can create art that we that we perceive as a stunning really um and um it's doing so still images now but it won't be long before it's doing uh movies and shorts and you know like movies just a series of frames with audio but at that point because it can mimic people and voices any image it can mimic reality itself so effectively I mean how could you have a criminal trial I mean how could you ever believe that evidence was authentic for example and I don't mean like in 30 years I mean like next year I mean that seems totally disruptive to the way to all of our institutions well I I don't think you could take say a random video on the internet and assume it to be true that's definitely not the case um somebody say has some video on their phone or their computer with a date stamp and a particular time I think you know is more likely to be true than nine um you can also cryptographically sign things um like you know mathematically we don't see any way for example for AI to um sub book The fundamentals of mathematics and say figure out how to Hash Bitcoin uh you know easily um it's it's like it's not a AI can't can't defy fundamental math yeah so um we can approve the efficiency of Bitcoin hashing algorithms in the Silicon but but not not fundamentally crack it um so I guess cryptographic signatures and uh one one way to do it um but I'm also aware I I think it's more like um are you know will Humanity um control its Destiny or not um will we have a future that is better than the past or not um and not you know with that we can certainly destroy ourselves without the help of AI um you know that's you look at all the past civilizations they didn't have ai at the ones that aren't around anymore they have chariots that's enough yeah chariots and uh Charlie's probably a real big deal back then yeah they were yeah so you've heard people say we should just blow up the server Farms because there's no way to once this gets rolling there's no way to slow it down what do you think of that well the the really heavy duty intelligence is not going to be uh distributed all over the place it'll be an a limited number of server centers if you say like very like very sort of deep AI heavy duty AI it's not um it's not going to be in your laptop or your phone it's it's going to be in you know a situation where there's like a hundred thousand uh really powerful computers working together in a service center so it's not so it's not like subtle and they're they're a limited number of places where that can happen in fact you could if you could just you can just look at the heat signature from space yeah and it'll be very obvious um uh now I'm not suggesting we go and pull up to service centers right now but there may be some it may be wise to have some sort of contingency plan where the government's got an ability to shut down shut down power to these uh server centers like uh you don't have to blow it up you can just cut the power um and what would triple cut connectivity as well that's another way right but what would trip that switch do you think in your mind what would be the threshold that you'd have to pass to warrant the government cutting off your power or cutting off your signal well I mean I guess if we lost control of some super AI um like for some reason like like the things that would normally work to do a passive shutdown like the administrator passwords if they somehow stopped working um where where we can't uh slow down or or you know uh I'm not sure I don't have a precise answer but if there's something that we're concerned about um and and uh and are unable to stop it with with the software commands then uh we'll probably want to have some kind of Hardware both switch yes I think you know can't hurt have you talked to since you know Larry Page and you obviously you know the opening guys because you started definitely have one have you talk to the the people who run these two the biggest AI companies about this recently I haven't talked to Larry Page in a few years because he got very upset with me about open AI so when when opening AI was created uh it did it did shift things into it from unipolar world where Google Google deepmind controlled uh you know like I said three quarters of all AI Talent two where there's Now sort of uh bipolar world or open Ai and Google deepmind and there and now weirdly said it seems opening eyes maybe ahead um so uh so I have had conversations with um the open AI team Tim Altman I haven't talked to Larry Page because he doesn't want to talk to me anymore uh for a few years uh can I ask you this about since you've been around a lot of this the thinking so why would anyone not be a specist be human-centered in his thinking about technology like what's the thinking there um I think what he's trying to say is that um if I were to guess uh that he that all Consciousness should be treated equally and whether that is digital or biological hmm and you disagree I disagree yeah [Laughter] especially if the digital uh Consciousness or whatever you want to call digital intelligence decides to curtail the biological intelligence right so you're just building your own slave master and why would you do that doesn't sound great [Laughter] yeah I mean we shouldn't we should at least no need to rush you know like what's the hurry where's the fire how well what I mean tell us about the hurry so this for I know you've been talking about this for years and on the sort of the periphery of our attention we've heard Elon Musk talking about AI but for most people it's been like three months since they've had any interaction with this at all um so what's the timeline here at what point does it start to really change our society do you think I think it starts to have a probably an impact this year right I think um so you've got a massive expansion of um gbt4 based systems um and many companies trying to emulate lgbt4 um and you've got of now is going to come up with gpd5 end of this year which will be we had another significant Improvement um and I I was there for GPD one two three four you know so GPD one was terrible um like you if you tried it you'd be like this is this ain't going anywhere it seems lame um and then gpd2 you started to see kind of like an inkling of like well maybe this could be something useful and then gpd3 was a huge Improvement uh and now it's like wow okay this is it's still spotting a lot of BS but it's you know it's uh coherent BS yes and then gpd4 now it's like writing poetry um and pretty decent poetry actually pretty decent yeah Skillet rhyming is incredible yes yes and it's coherent yes it is it's you've got a narrative like yeah that's right yeah so you could say like hard to do like most humans can't do that that's true so it's already past the point of what most humans can do and most humans cannot write as well as uh chat gbt um and there's certainly and no human can write that well that fast as the best of my knowledge so maybe Shakespeare um so so then how much better will gpd5 be and how about gbd6 or 7. how can you have a democracy with technology like that I mean if democracy is you know government by the people each person's vote is equal to every other person's vote I mean and people are choosing their votes freely can can you have a democracy with this well that's why I raise the concern of um uh AI being a significant influence in elections um and even if you say that AI doesn't have agency well it's very likely that people will use the AI um as a tool uh in elections um and then it you know if AI is smart enough are they using the tool or is it tool using them so I think things are getting weird and they're getting weird fast and so I think we should be concerned about this and we should have regulatory oversight that's why I think it's a big deal and I think social media companies uh really need to put a lot of attention into ensuring that the things that get um created and promoted are that we're dealing with real people not with a million chat gbts pretending to be people exactly do you think speaking of social media you bought Twitter famously you've got a lot of other businesses and a lot going on yes you said you bought it because you believe in speech Free Speech you've had a lot of hassle since you bought it and retrospect was it worth buying it um um I mean it remains to be seen as to whether this was uh financially smart uh it currently is it is not uh you know we just revalued the company at less than half of the acquisition price yes um hahaha um no my timing was terrible for for when the uh offer was made because it was uh you know right before advertising plummeted and um you caught the high water mark I noticed yeah yeah so I must be a real genius here um my my timing is amazing um since I've ordered for at least twice as much as it should have been bought for um but some things are Priceless and um so the the whether I lose money or not that is a secondary issue compared to uh ensuring the uh strength of democracy uh and free speech is the Bedrock of a functioning democracy yes um and any the speech needs to be as uh transparent and truthful as possible um so we've got a huge push on Twitter to be as truthful as possible we've got this community notes feature which is great it is great it is awesome yeah and it's like I saw it this morning yeah it was far more honest than the New York Times it's great yeah we put a lot of F2 ensuring that Community notes does not get gamed or or have biases it is simply cares about what is the most accurate thing um and you know sometimes truth can be a little bit elusive but but you can still aspire to get closer to it yes you know and so um and I think the the effect of uh Community notes uh is more powerful than people may realize because once people know that they they could get noted um you know Community noted on Twitter then uh they'll think that more carefully about what they say uh they're likely it basically it's an encouragement to be more truthful and less deceptive yes and if the notes themselves are truthful then it will have the effect absolutely and all of that is open source all the community notes is open source so you can read about every Community note you can see exactly how the algorithm works you can you can you can register say like oh we need to make this change without change um so everything is super open book with with Community notes there's no no black box when you jumped into this though when you bought it did you understand clearly you understood its importance you wouldn't bought it uh Twitter yes right but it's not the biggest but it's the most important the social media companies but did you understand the kind of ferocity you'd be facing the attacks you'd be facing from Power centers in the country um I thought there'd probably be some um negative reactions yes so I'm sure everyone would not be pleased with the with with it um but um at the end of the day you know if if the public is happy with it that's what matters um and the public will speak with their actions although I mean if if they find truth Twitter to be useful they will use it more and if they find it to be not useful I will use it less they find it to be the best source of truth I think they will use it more um so that's my theory um and so uh even though you know now there's obviously a lot of um organizations that are used to having sort of unfettered influence uh on Twitter um that no longer have that New York Times have there of their badge this morning and then you called them diarrhea okay you did you did I'm just I'm just described it Twitter feed is diarrhea I said it was a Twitter Twitter equivalent of diarrhea okay it's not literally diarrhea but no it's uh you know it's a metaphor um but an accurate one um so I mean if you look at the uh at NY Times Twitter feed is uh unreadable uh it's like because what they do is that they tweet every single article even the ones that are uh boring even ones that don't make it into the paper so uh so it's just non-stop is a zillion tweets a day with no uh you know they really should just be saying like what are the top tweets yeah like what what are the what are the what are the big stories of the day uh I don't know put out like 10 or something you know so it's a number that's manageable um as opposed to right now if you if you were to follow NY at NY Times on Twitter you're going to get barraged with like hundreds of tweets a day yeah um and your whole feed will be filled within white times so um that that's that's this is something I would recommend actually for oral Publications uh which is uh for your primary feed um only put out your best stuff uh don't put out everything um or you could have a second feed that is here's everything um but then but have a have your primary feed be here's our best stuff if any um immediate organizational individual uh just uh have don't put out hundreds of tweets a day just put out like 10 good ones um or five good ones or or and if it's a slow news day don't put on any maybe put out two one or two yeah but uh don't don't try to say we're always going to put out uh 100 tweets even if uh you know if it's World War III or a bicycle accident was the biggest news you know it's got to be like yeah news that it's It's gotta you got to earn your own earn your plate earn someone's attention yes um so just in in general um I kind of think I know a thing or two about how to use Twitter because uh you know it was the most interacted with account on the whole system uh before the acquisition before the acquisition closed I didn't have the most number of followers but I had the most number of interactions and so I clearly know something about how to use Twitter um and so people should you know listen to my advice I think um so you know people's attention is limited so just make sure you put the stuff that's most important there so because you know you and people like you do interact on Twitter it's obviously enormously powerful in shaping public opinions where a lot of ideas and Trends are incubated yeah you know that's why it's also a magnet for Intel agencies from around the world and one of the things we learned after you started opening the books is that they were exerting influence from within Twitter I mean it was absurd um did you know that going in no well well so things like I I have a um since I've been a heavy Twitter user since 2009 um my it's it's sort of like I'm in The Matrix I mean I can see like things do things feel right do they not feel right what what tweets am I being shown as recommended uh like I I get a feel like what accounts are making comments uh where are the comments uh eerily similar yeah um and and then you look at the account and it's just obviously a fake photo and uh you know uh that it's just obviously a bot cluster over and over again um so this is actually so I started to get like just more and more uneasy about the the Twitter situation um and um and my my initial goal was was was actually not not to acquire Twitter um I mean the the actual sequence events was that I um I was looking at um I I I I I I I I held a Twitter poll to say like should I sell some of my Tesla stock because I was getting you know a couple years ago I was getting um attacked a lot for like allegedly not paying taxes um uh and uh no I've actually paid a tremendous amount of taxes um no there was one year I didn't pay taxes because I had overpaid taxes in the prior year and you know when they had that like IRS leak BS they knew that I had overpaid taxes in the prior year but they said oh Elon Musk didn't pay taxes in 2017 or whatever it was and I was like but you know that the reason I didn't pay taxes because I overpaid the prior year if you didn't mention that so that was deceptive um anyway so the the the you know Elizabeth Warren's of the world and Bernie Sanders like saying oh you know uh I'm not selling stock and I'm not paying taxes and I and so I so so I'm like look I don't know what the right thing to do is here I thought the right thing to do was to not sell stock the captain should be the last one to leave the show that's right um and um I thought I was doing the right thing about not selling stock and now I'm being told I'm doing the wrong thing um by you know Clinging On to the stock and not paying taxes so I held a Twitter poll to say which what do you guys want should I sell I don't know 10 of my Tesla stock or or not I'll buy the results of the poll and uh that's like six sixty percent of people said yeah you should sell 10 so I did um so then I had a bunch of cash and um I'm like what should I do with this uh at the time the the Federal Reserve rates were super low so it's just like sitting in the you know I guess the your checking account well in the T in the Tebow account right you know money market account whatever um the yeah the whole banking thing is a whole separate subject um I know what the little thing to think about you about Finance um but um so uh so I'm assuming this mining account is earning less than the rate of inflation so the rate inflation is much higher so we've got high inflation it's I'm owning peanuts in the money market account this is dumb I'm getting like minus it's just evaporating yeah I'm getting minus like six or seven percent return here uh maybe worse and um so then well it's like what stock should I buy um and I you know I believe in buying stocks of companies where you use the product um and uh Apple's got a competing uh electric vehicle car program so you know I like Apple products We're Not Gonna invest in them because they're competing uh you know autonomous EV program and um so what's the other product that I use a lot oh Twitter okay so I'll you know it put the money in Twitter it's better than just having it on you know negative six percent inflation situation um so so I like board put a bunch of it what a bunch of Twitter stock uh not likes it no way they instead of buying the company just you know it's better than keeping it a money market remember how much you bought um I think it was like eight percent or something of the company um I'm talking to some of the board members um and then and then they said hey well do you wanna you wanna join the board so I was like well I generally don't want to be on boards uh but uh because it's boring uh man I have a lot of things to do uh but I do care about the direction of Twitter so I'll consider being on the board and I thought about it for about a week or so and then but then based on the conversations that I was having with the management team and the board um I came to the conclusion rightly or wrongly that um that if I joined the board they they would not listen to me so then I'm like huh okay then I would just be a quizling you know I don't want to be some sort of just you know go along for the riot quizling situation um and and if a collaborator effectively uh so and and it really felt like I started starting to feel like wait a second like it's weird something something's like something's not right in this you know something's brought in the state of Denmark here there's so much feels wrong about the platform it seemed to be just drifting in a I I couldn't place it exactly just ahead of it felt like it was drifting in a bad Direction so then I was like and and my conversations with the board and management seem to confirm my intuition about that so then I was like okay um but basically I was convinced these guys do not care about fixing Twitter uh and and uh and I had a bad feeling about where I was headed based in the conversations conversations I had with them so then it was like you know what I I'll try acquiring it and see if that's see if acquiring it is is possible um no I didn't have enough cash to acquire it so I would need you know support from others from some of the existing investors uh I'd also need like a lot of debt and um so it wasn't clear to me whether a an acquisition would succeed but I thought I would try and uh ultimately it did succeed um so anyway here we are um but when you got there and all of a sudden you own it and all the data on the service belongs to you and what belongs to the people in my view but yes but but you can see what it is and you can see what they've been doing and you can see who's been working there you you were shocked to find out that various Intel agencies were affecting its operations uh the the degree to which uh various government agencies were effectively uh had effectively had full access to everything that was going on on Twitter uh blew my mind I was not aware of that would that include people's DMs uh yes yes because the dams are not encrypted so one of the first you know one of the things that we're about to release is ability to encrypt your DM that's pretty heavy duty though because a lot of well-known people reporters talking to their sources government officials the rich people in the world they're dming each other and the Assumption obviously it was incorrect but was that that's private but that was being read by various governments uh yeah that seems yes scary uh yes it is uh so like I said we're moving to um have the DMS be optionally encrypted I mean you know there's like a lot of DM conversations which are you know just chatting with friends it's not not important um uh but but so so we're that's hopefully coming out later this month uh but no later than next month uh is the ability to toggle encryption on or off so if you if you have are in a conversation you think is sensitive you can just toggle encryption on and then no one on Twitter can see what you're talking about they could put a gun to my head and I couldn't I couldn't tell I couldn't can I still not uh see your DMs that should be that's the acid test yes um and that's how that's that's how it should be if you want have you had complaints from various governments about doing this I haven't had Direct complaints to me I've had sort of like some indirect complaints I think people are a little concerned about complaining to me directly in case I tweet about it you know uh they're like oh uh so they're sort of trying to be more roundabout than that um and um you know I mean if if I got something that was uh unconstitutional from the US government I would say my reply would be to send them a copy of the you know First Amendment and just say like what part of this are we getting wrong you have a lot of government what part of this are we getting wrong please tell me I mean it's a pretty no I'm just saying but you're kind of exposed in your other businesses so this is uh just in case reviewers aren't following this this is not you're not just like a journalist taking a stand on behalf of the First Amendment you're a guy with big government contracts giving the finger to the government in some way well am I giving the things I I think that they're um I'm not someone who thinks that uh you know the government is just sort of uh evil right it's it's it's a it's a large bureaucracy uh there are people uh in government uh who are human beings and they have the people with good motivations occasionally bad motivations uh with with rare exception the people that I know in government have good motivations and just want to get their job done and and they actually believe in the Constitution and they're so I think my opinion is actually most people in the government are good um it's heartening to hear yeah it's it's rare for me to to find someone in the government who I think is perhaps not good but but you know at the highest level of the the agencies there are political appointees as you know um and the political point is we'll have a political agenda um and so they at the at the highest levels of the various government agencies there is the ability to put a sort of a political thumb on the scale even if the uh people operating the agencies don't agree with that um so you know so that's something to be concerned about um is I'd say I'd be more concerned about about political appointees I think than than um the sort of people the career people that's been my experience at least do you think um Twitter will be as Central to this presidential campaign as it was in the last several I think it will play a significant role in elections not just domestically but internationally so uh the the goal of new Twitter is to be um as fair and even-handed as possible so not favoring any political ideology but just um yeah being being fair at all why doesn't Facebook do this I know that Zuckerberg has said and I take him at face value that he I well I do I do actually in this way that he is a kind of old-fashioned liberal who doesn't like to censor he has but he you know like why wouldn't a company like that take the stand that you have taken it was pretty rooted in American traditional political custom you know for free speech my understanding is that um Zuckerberg spent uh 400 million dollars in the last election normally in a get out the boat campaign but really fundamentally in support of Democrats is that accurate or not accurate that is accurate does that sound unbiased to you no it doesn't yes um so you don't see hope that Facebook will approach this as a a non-aligned Orbiter I'm unaware of evidence to suggest that path um do you can you uh you've you've allowed Donald Trump back on Twitter he hasn't taken you up on your offer because he's got his own thing right do you think he will go back on Twitter well that's that's obviously up to him um you know my job is to uh you know I take the freedom of speech very seriously so it's um you know I didn't I didn't vote for Donald Trump I actually voted for Biden people think I'm some sort of Hardcore you know so it's certainly some of the media try to paint me as like far right or whatever I'm right and the only time I've ever even voted Republican was was once for uh because I I registered a vote in South Texas I was for Mexican-American woman for congress that's that's literally the only Republican vote I've ever cast in my entire life yeah um once um and uh so um I'm not saying I'm a huge fan of Biden because I I would think that would probably be inaccurate uh but um you know we have difficult choices to make in these residential uh elections it's not I I I would prefer frankly that we we put someone just a normal person as president a normal person with common sense uh and whose values are smack in the middle of the country you know just you know Center the normal distribution and uh I think they'll be that that would be great I agree and everyone would be happier would you run like why wouldn't you run I was born here so oh of course you weren't yeah it's it's I'm a technologist also I'm not not a politician so it's not like uh it it you know I think we have made maybe being president not that much fun you know to be totally Frank um it is uh By Design a relatively weak role uh you know because it's intended to be balanced by the house and the Senate Judiciary um so it's not like like if you're a prime minister in England or Canada or you have homo power than if you're president because it's like being speaker of the house right and being um president you know so um so you know for presidents like uh deliberately weak in order to avoid creating a king situation King Queen's situation um and but you get dumped on all day uh no matter what you do um yeah and everything you do is scrutinized um and um your life is not your own um and if if you had any skeletons you've got in the closet will be trotted out and uh you know braided down Main Street and even if they don't exist they'll make them up and uh politics is a blood sport yeah so it's it's not something I'd want to do so I gotta one last thread I just that you alluded to you said don't get me started on the banks so you've seen well so you've seen a couple Regional Bank collapses yeah and we've been told that's not a big deal that these are isolated and each one collapsed for Unique reasons or not it's not systemic in any sense what's your sense your sense of the stability of the American banking system well it's actually at this point a global banking system problem so the uh you know we have a situation here where it's not merely it's not that the canary in the coal mine has died but the miners are starting to die too the you know the so and you know Silicon Valley Bank uh collapsing uh overnight um is one hell of a big Canary you know smell like a turkey I mean it's not just it's not like some small fry thing yeah um it's big fry so a medium fry uh and then uh quetta Swiss uh which is uh I think was formed in the mid-1800s um was basically sold for pennies on the dollar uh forced to merge with UBS and even then required uh backstop by the Swiss government I mean like hello guys maybe we have issues here maybe things aren't all great they're definitely not all great more forceful here um the uh I think that there there is a serious danger uh with the uh global banking system there's there's a strong argument that the if you were to actually uh mock to mock at the portfolios of the banks the loans and whatnot uh that the entire banking industry would have negative equity it feels that way yes um so if you look at say uh commercial real estate like offices and whatnot the whole work from home thing has substantially reduced office usage in cities around the world and um you know I think I think San Francisco is a 40 percent uh off in San Francisco is like an extreme example but it's like I think it's on 40 vacancy um uh even even New York has uh almost all cities at this point have have record vacancies in commercial real estate so um now that the commercial real estate used to be something that was a grade A asset that if a bank had commercial real estate holdings those would be considered the highest uh Securities some of the safest uh uh you know uh assets you could have now that is not the case anymore one company after another is canceling their leases or not renewing their leases or if they go bankrupt you the the there's nothing for the the bank who owns that real estate to go after because they're you know previously strong company now dead what do you where do you what do you go after that point um so we really haven't seen the commercial real estate shoe drop that's more like a Anvil not a shoe um so the stuff we've seen thus far actually hasn't even it is it's only slightly uh um real estate portfolio degradation but that will become a very serious thing later this year in my in my view um I think if we see what you're likely to see a drop in house prices because the interest rates are too high and for most people when buying a house they look at the monthly payment of course if you're a 30 30 year mortgages the vast majority of his interest so if the Fed rate is high you have a a high base interest rate effectively the price you can pay for the house drops because you now have to pay more interest which means that if you've got a fixed monthly payments you can now afford to buy a house for less less money it effectively drops the the prices of houses yes um uh this is the kind of thing that tends to accelerate uh so that so then you can get negative equity in the Home Market as well and so so if if banks end up having loan license in both their commercial and they're definitely going to have loan license in their commercial portfolio but also in their mortgage portfolio this is um a dire situation um the there is there is a solution to mitigate the magnitude of the damage here which is for the FED to lower the rate but they raised the rate again um now uh if I recall correctly which I you know important caveat I think the last time the FED raised rates going into a recession was 1929. what happened next yeah Great Depression the the concern I'm going to tell you nothing you don't know but the concern is If the Fed drops rates again then inflation will accelerate and you can't do that in an election year so inflation is going to happen no matter what huh if you increase the money supply you get inflation right so there's no there's not some magical cure for getting rid of inflation except to increase the productivity the output output of goods and services so if you say like like what is money um you've got you've got you've got these sort of um it's basically numbers in a database that's that that sum up to some kind of some total then you've got the output of goods and services of the economy and the as long as the ratio of money to ratio of goods and services stays if that if that stays constant you have no no inflation if if you add more money if you add money to the system faster than you increase goods and services then you have inflation so all of these covert sort of stimulus bills uh were not paid for they were they're just generated more uh currency more you know uh more money was was was created because the the federal government uh the checks never let's the checks always pass you know until unless you hit a debt limit which there's probably going to be some debt limit crisis later this year but uh provided you haven't hit the debt limit the the federal government unlike state governments or city governments or individuals can simply issue more money and that's what they did I mean as old saying goes there's no there's no free lunch so uh if you could just issue massive amounts of money without negative consequences why don't we just take that to the loan and make everyone a trillionaire well I mean they tried that about as well how'd that work out well they had to eat zoo animals right it's not good you know um you get to the point where the you you know so why more Germany type stuff where you could like you know take bring in the cash to the store in a wheelbarrow yes so uh there's no free lunch if there's not some ability to issue money and not have inflation the the this is just I I yeah um so the inflation will happen um and there's no fiddling with the the Fed rate is not going to affect that really um uh but with the high Fed rate can cause a lot of damage in shifting funds um in the wrong direction so um the the long-term return on say the S P 500 I believe is depending on how you count it around uh six percent um so as if the FED real rate of return starts to approach what the um long-term return is on the stock market why would you keep any money in the stock market you would should simply buy treasury bills of course um because the treasure bills is a certainty whereas the stock market fluctuates right this is pretty basic uh also why would you keep money in a bank savings account if you can put it in what's called a money market account which is an account that represents treasury rules if the treasury bill money market account gives you you know four to five percent interest and the Bank savings account only gives you two percent uh you'll be a fool to keep the Money in the Bank savings account so the the the the the FED is made a tremendous Mistake by going this High uh with with their with their rate and they need to drop it immediately do you think they will they yes they they will have no choice but to draft it I think later this year um the part of the issue is that the FED is an old institution and has a lot of latency in its data so it's like driving a car along a Cliffside Road a windy Cliffside road while looking at the rear view mirror but not even actually the rear view mirror a video that was taken of the rear view mirror that's three months old [Laughter] now if you on a if you're on a straight Road yeah that works out okay because nothing's changing or it's only slight or a slightly bending road but we're more along like the we're doing the highway one PCH trip here um and so you really want to look out the front window when you're in Big Sur yes if you're on a Cliffside Road where you could punch your doom so uh yes you want to look out the front window uh you want to look at the sort of forward commodity prices like look look at the look at what the Ford contracts are predicting for uh commodity prices um and not uh not not some uh laboriously slow government data collection process that uh like they'll claim to have for example December data that's not December that's not the data of December it's the data that arrived in December right exactly I mean you think about how good is the government and actually collecting data horrible yeah yeah so it's like that's what I mean it's like three months old uh with less errors so if you had a hundred grand in the bank making decisions that basis was insane so so like what what should the average non-rich person do on the cusp of what you're describing which is economic catastrophe like how do you protect yourself um I think I think uh probably a smart move overall and this this is guidance that I think applies across the ages is if there are companies in whose products you believe um buy and hold the stock and and when when when the whenever else is panicking then buy more and everyone else thinks that that the stock is going to the Moon sell it you know sort of the by um low sell High uh you're not an index fund guy like you pick specific stocks I that's my my you have to say like what is the purpose of a company why should a company exist um a company exists is a group of people uh collected together to to provide products and services it's not it's not a thing in and of itself it's just a group of people that's like it's hard if it was just one person making you can make cupcakes yourself but you can't make cars by yourself yes so uh if so so that so therefore the value of a company is a function of the um quality of the products and services that it's that it has created and will create and so if if there's a company that you think well this company has got a lot of exciting products that I think are awesome um their current products are good that's probably a company to invest in because that's the reason companies exist too yeah these goods and services that you like and so um no I mean there's some caveats here to make sure you you're not like investing when ever when it's like the hottest thing you know because then it's going to have you had a temporary high but you know when when it's not sort of at a weirdly temporary high I think just generally looking at a company and saying well I like the products the service of that company and I like where they're going and the the management seems sensible and then I think buying and holding that stock is probably the right move um I'm probably doing that with with a few companies um uh that's what I'd recommend um I think the on the I mean I I could really go into length about the financial system and the stock market and everything um but the I mean these days I think we've gotten a little too far into the index passive fund yeah World um like somebody at some Point's got to make a decision um you know I couldn't agree more yeah and and by the way they're they're like betting on both red and black I mean it doesn't yeah well depending on red and black in a casino situation where it could come up green right um and you're bound to lose yeah so the longer you play the worse you do now the stock market is is kind of like the opposite of a casino which is the longer you play the more likely you are to to succeed that historically has been the case and I think we'll continue to be the case um so uh but it's really just important not not to panic if you if you buy a stock and you you read something terrible in the newspaper you want to just remember the news has got a negative bias uh just and think about what other products of the company still sound does it have a good product roadmap do you believe in the management if so ignore what the Press says or if the price drops when there's a negative article via stock so here's here's my last question and you mentioned the Press you've been the subject of press coverage you know like a long time sure but very intense media coverage for the last year uh yeah sure well it seems that way anyway um how is your opinion of the press changed um well um so my first company way back in the day and sort of pre-cambrian era of the internet or the World Wide Web um it was up to we actually helped bring a number of the media organizations online so most newspapers are not online we helped bring hundreds of newspapers magazines online for the first time uh we added a tremendous amount of functionality to their websites with our software the New York Times company and night router were major investors and were on the board I spent a lot of time in newsrooms so I'm not unfamiliar with the media I got to see it firsthand uh all the way back in like 1996 so it's been a while sort of traditional media certainly had Revenue challenges because as online advertising has increased and it's much more measurable and much more sort of direct you can say like I spent this amount and got this this output you know like uh you it's interactive unlike say a newspaper or broadcast TV um you're kind of guessing with the newspaper on broadcast TV that's right um it where there's if something's online you can tell immediately that that person saw the ad and bought the product um that's it's very very immediate so um and it's it's actually more effective if the advertising is is customized to the individual so so the advertising is more likely to be relevant whereas broadcast if if it's being shown to everyone it's going to be irrelevant to most people um the the result of that has been a huge shift in advertising revenue from uh newspapers and and a TV to uh you know the Googles and Facebook so the world and a tiny bit to Twitter I think Twitter it's like one one percent of advertising revenues was quite tiny um so this this is uh Manchester shrinking pie obviously for uh most of the traditional media companies um and made them more desperate to get uh clicks to get to get you know get attention um and he has made them when you know when they were when they were in a sort of desperate State they will then tend to really push uh headlines that get the most clicks whether those headlines are accurate or not um so it's resulted in my view I think I think most people would agree uh a less truthful less accurate in use um so uh because they just got to get a rise out of people um and I think it's also increased the negativity of the news because I think we humans instinctually uh respond more to that I think we have an instinctual negative bias which which kind of makes sense in that like uh if um like let's say you uh like it's more important to remember where where was the lion or where was the tribe that wants to kill my tribe then where is the bush with berries yes like one's like a permanent negative outcome and the other is like well I might go hungry so meaning that there's an asymmetry in um it sort of involved asymmetry in negative versus positive stuff um and and also historically the negative stuff would have been quite proximate like it would have been near represented a real danger to you as a person um if you heard negative news because historically you know like a few hundred years ago we're not hearing about what negative things are happening on the other side of the world or on the other side of the country we're only we're hearing about negative things in our village um things that could actually have a a bad effect on you whereas now we're hearing about we mean the news very often seems to attempt to uh answer the question what is the worst thing that happened on Earth today and you wonder why he's sad after reading that you know um and then use the most inflammatory language you know because every day they got to sell sell the advertising um even if it's it happened to be a slow news day do you read any Legacy Media Outlets I mean I read a lot um so um I mean I really get most of my news from Twitter at this point um so it is the number one music news source I think uh in the world at this point so uh and that's all the more important that we we strive to uh to be accurate and and not it's not just a question of accuracy but we also need to allow the people to develop the narratives that are of interest to them so it's possible for news to be technically truthful but not but which that but they're still deciding what the narrative is like like let's say you wanted um like you let's say you took a photo of someone and they had a little zit um now you could zoom in on the zit and make it look gigantic like Mount Vesuvius and it is still true that they have a zit it's just not the size of Mount Vesuvius and they you know it doesn't properly reflect their face their face is not one giant set but you could you could say like well it's true but have they have lied they haven't you know they've just happened to zoom in on the zit um and not look at the the rest of the face uh type of thing so um I want to say is that the the choice of narrative is uh is extremely important um and at the point which if there's only like say uh half a dozen editors in Chief or maybe even few of them maybe it's only three or four that are deciding what the narrative is what's gonna be on the front page uh then um you know that that that's that's a form of manipulation of public opinion I think the public often doesn't appreciate and is perhaps the most pernicious of all that's right because of the most subtle yeah it's most subtle they haven't said an untrue thing they've just chosen what they're going to focus on a man called Douglas Mack he's facing 10 years in prison for posting what he believed funny memes on Twitter what do you make of that case I don't know the details of that case um I've you know I've read a little bit about it you may you probably know more about it than I do I uh I certainly don't think someone should go to prison for a long period of time for posting memes on Twitter in which case we're going to have a very very full prison um so and if we're talking about election interference well there's quite a few people that should be on trial for that uh for much far more serious crimes than than memes on on Twitter far more serious yes the Twitter files kind of showed that I think yes um so you know unless unless a person really does I I said I don't I don't know everything that we're short of the trial has he been convicted is this yes he was evicted on Friday unanimous jury verdict yes what was the venue for New York City okay it was a it was in Brooklyn and it was a hung jury and hung jury it's not unanimous then uh well the judge prodded the jury okay and uh and they reached unanimous guilty verdict it'll be appealed so how many what percentage of your staff did you fire at Twitter one of the great business stories of the year I think we're about we're about 20 of the original size so 80 left uh yes so I mean a lot of people voluntarily sure sure but but it's 80 are gone from the data correct yes so how do you run the company with only 20 of the staff uh it turns out uh you don't need uh well that many people to run Twitter but 80 that's a lot um yes uh over I mean if you're not trying to run some sort of uh glorified activist organization uh with it and you're not care that much about censorship then you can really let go of a lot of people turns out others without naming names but how many I had dinner with somebody who runs a big company recently who said I'm really inspired by Elon and I said you the Free Speech stuff he goes no the firing the staff stuff um how many other CEOs have come to you um to talk about this um you know I I spend a lot of time at work uh so it's not like I'm meeting with lots of people they see what I what actions I've taken um and um but I think we just had a situation at Twitter where it was absolutely overstaffed you know so it wasn't uh you know like you look at say like what does really take to operate Twitter um you know most of what we're talking about here is a group text uh service at scale um like how many people are really needed for that you know um and if you look at the you say like uh what has been the product development uh over time with Twitter and you like so like you know years versus product improvements and it's like a pretty flat line so what are they doing you know uh it took a year to add an edit button that doesn't work most of the time I mean this is I feel like if it was a comedy situation here you know um you're not making cars you know uh it was very difficult to make cars um or get Rockets to orbit so um you know the real question is like how did it get sort of absurdly overstaffed this is insane um so anyway that's and it's clearly working um in fact I think it's working better than ever it's about we've increased the uh responsiveness of the system by in some cases over 80 percent the there's a core piece of code for generating the the timeline which is run literally billions of times a day we've cut that code from 700 000 lines to 70 000 lines uh run yeah and and the code efficiency by over 80 percent like meaning how much compute is necessary to render the timeline Yeah by 80 I mean this is uh you know in four four five months uh We've increased the video time from um roughly two minutes or best case 10 minutes to now two hours so you can put two hours of video on on Twitter we'll soon be increasing that to uh really where there's no no meaningful limit uh We've increased the treat length from 240 characters to four thousand uh we'll be increasing that to where there's again no meaningful length to if you want to post a novel on Twitter you should be able to do it um and um you know we as as everyone saw on Friday we open source the super embarrassing recommendation algorithm uh which we will taking apart and at this rating which is exactly what I hope they would do um and pointing out all the nonsense um and uh we're gonna open source more and we're going to subject it to uh Public public review we're also going to get criticized light because people will point out all of the foolish things that are out that are happening in the code but then we'll fix it we'll fix it fast and pump in full public view um and I think that's the kind of thing that that owns the public trust you know if if because like don't take my word for it it's just this is we you can literally read the code and you can read what people say about the code um and um and you can see the improvements that we make and you can see we'll see the like in real time live uh see see it get better so my prediction is that this I I would be surprised if this does not lead the public to think okay this this is something that I can trust um I mean like I think far more trust trustworthy than say other social media organizations that have some mysterious black box that they refuse to show the show how it works I mean what are they trying to hide what are they hide which is not good things yeah if they had to have somebody to hide why don't they show it because it's a proprietary business Secret yeah sure so my you know so we're trying to make make sure that the most trusted place on the internet the the where you can get the CL you know the the least untrustworthy place on the internet I don't think anyone should trust the internet but but maybe we can make Twitter the least untrustworthy um and uh you know where you can see a wide range of political opinions so including ones you disagree with I think people should be exposed to things they disagree with um so it shouldn't just be continuous self-reinforcement of like what you know so um that's that's the goal and uh I think we're making some some good progress in that direction um I feel good about where things are going um and we definitely want to have things as as sort of cleaned up as possible before the elections uh if there's any manipulation that we're aware of make make that make the public aware of that and just uh like I said try to get the truth to the people as best we can

Channel: Smart Sense

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Id: zaB_20bkoA4

Length: 87min 31sec (5251 seconds)

Published: Thu Jul 06 2023