EFFPodcast Episode 31|Fighter, Adv Busisiwe Mkhwebane speaks on outcome of the 2024GeneralElections.

stand up South Africa make sure that South Africa you are counted with me rise South Africa stand and make sure that our people understand that they need to be revolution in South Africa is guaranteed that under the E this country will be the better the elections are over now Advocate but big question is who's going to lead South Africa we have seen that the people of South Africa have decided and there's no outright majority we've seen thec just below 40% and now the question is where to next who's going to lead South Africa H yes you know indeed the people have spoken mhm um we would want to see the parties whose focus and interest are the marginalized um to Lead South Africa not those who are just uh feeding on um you know empowering themselves or you know um just looking into their own interest M so we need a party which will make sure that we take the masses out of poverty M yeah and obviously we're talking in the context of uh Coalition because the people of South Africa have said we just want Power sharing in this uh Democratic dispensation post the elections now there are talks around government of national Unity minority government what's your take I think it would make sense to have a a coalition or that government of national unity in a way because then now it's if the 40% of South Africans are saying ANC we want you to still continue uh uh leading us e we've got 9.5 we want to lead you to lead us or uh MK you've got 14.5 we want you to so I think those those uh parties can then work together to make sure that um for the benefit of South Africans or those who voted for them they are looking into their own interest I mean let's say it's government of national Unity which I think in a way will help other parties like the eff to enforce their Manifesto I mean to show South Africans that what we promised you we can do I mean look at Ur L MH um we are having several departments which were leading there and I mean we've uh performed exceptionally good so I think if that is then um done at a national level we can show South Africans that what we were saying in our Manifesto we can really do sure yeah and that is the the true character of the EF the eff always does what says it will definitely do thank you very much the people of South Africa Africa and the world for tuning in my name is Titus tungu and we're coming to you from wi madella Mandela house with me I'm joined uh by Advocate buan the former public protector and E MP Advocate good to have you back with us uh we have last caught up I think it was way way before the elections but we very glad to have you back with us actually we we were good morning to everyone or good yeah whatever time zone you'll be at we met when I was recent I recently joined efff remember yeah and thank you so much for um giving me this opportunity to engage with you yeah thank you very much and now we are talking of course all things postelection looking at the 2024 provincial in fact Nation and provincial elections what is your immediate reaction and would you say they were free and fair you know uh I would say um partially free and Fa um I will justify that by saying you know there were a lot of um challenges I mean I was on the ground I was the ground force I was the coordinator of the sub in inanga yes that's where the party deployed me to assist in panga team so I was working with the ground forces um responsible for 32 wordss at now what the challenges we were facing there hence I'm saying not completely free and fair okay but uh because of people waiting exceptionally long hours to be um to vote mhm um some of the people were turned back um from where they are voting I mean there was one old lady who said you know what I stayed in this VD I've been voting here arrived here around 1970 something the first elections saying I voted for thec of Mandela thec of begi thec of Zuma the ANC of Raposa in this this V for some reason she's changed now they're saying she's voting 20 km away from where she's staying and not only her I think it was several of old people who were facing that young people as well they were told no um yes you've just registered to vote but then you are not voting in this video You're voting in another video and knowing young people will say I I'll see um maybe later and then from there they didn't come mhm others I mean for instance one Community Hall people were still on the Queue MH um I issuing a statement stay on the Queue I think as eff we also said young people and everyone don't move you will be assisted yes they just closed the gate yes indeed there were some parts where some voting stations uh voters were chased away mhm yeah and when the national office or head office said from I assist those people people were turned back and that does compromise The credibility of the elections Advocate some people remember now we've got the legislative provision of section 24 a where if you wouldn't be in a voting St station where you are residing you needed to apply to the IC before the 17th of May and a lot of people were not aware they didn't apply and that was closed you know some voting stations they allowed people to vote M even if they were not voting in those voting yes they did I mean those are some of the objections I raised with the I and it was just a standard response no you should have provided us this part of information and that therefore we are rejecting this or appeal I mean that was a clear issue of saying this is not a fair process mhm and others were tend back mhm and I didn't do enough to educate people students everyone and a lot of students remember you are registered you still at home then the following year you are at the University and some of them they didn't change um some of them then if they were turned back that's the number I mean if you you had 27 million people registered M and you only had how many who voted I think 16 million now exactly yeah and um so hence I'm saying is partially and there is a number of stories I mean the behavior of the presiding officers of I lives much to be desired we succeeded as eff actually um in that sub region I would say a lot of the presiding officers were not teachers like in the past M MERS years yeah okay you know they tried to employ a number of young people uh graduate graduates which is one thing I would say at least they they tried but I think also the very same U some of them they still had attitude you know the behavior of saying it's like clearly favoring a certain political party more than the other so their behavior as well left much to be desired because remember um after um voting mhm they needed to make sure that um or during voting when there's objections they need to be decisive if people want to appeal they need to give them that opportunity so there must be a f Fair process in the in the in the voting uh stations but then after that when the counting was happening at the various voting stations M after counting that was very clear even the CEO of I was saying people must be out to take pictures mhm a number of them were refusing for party agents to take pictures because that's where then the issue of the result slips comes in and that's your evidence because that evidence uh you can use it then to challenge anything you would want to challenge MH yeah and when you look at the vter turn out I think it's at 58.7% are you happy at all I'm not happy it's it's it's it's so wrong and I mean again it leads back to the failure by the I to make sure that we don't have all these clites um the turning back of people not to say people didn't come some of them the very same ones who were chased um away after the closure or those who were disgruntled or those were didn't know about section 24a yeah and the I didn't have the lenen to understand that they had for maybe some people were on the queue for over maybe 7 hours or so and some had to to go maybe with thinking that they will come back but they were never given that opportunity exactly imagine staying standing in the queue for 4 hours to 7 hours M then the next thing you are told no we are closing it's 9:00 so um I think um what I would say is just U call on those people to say do not hope I think um this government seven Administration must make sure that we don't have that kind of I um we need to make sure as well that I accounts remember they um report to Parliament and uh under the portfolio Committee of Home Affairs M and I think it's for then Parliament to make sure that they account for all these um you know irregularities MH and how how can we then make sure that 2026 elections local government elections such things are no longer repeating and we have a situation where people would be you know um willing to come back because I mean if you were turned back and somebody will say I'm no longer interested as much as some of the people were no longer interested when we were doing door to door A person say I 30 years I'm unemployed I mean one old lady even said you know what I took this child to school to now look after me but unfortunately I'm a pensioner I can't do anything I'm supporting this young young person you know it's it's it's it's it's it's a said reality which is is is on the ground yeah so that said what is it that the IEC ought to have done given the complaints that were launched the objections that were launched I saw you also posted on Twitter um highlighting the issue of uh data or the result slips uh result slips if you like that were captured incorrectly uh what is it that the IEC should have done do you think perhaps they should have just uh postpone the Declaration of the elections being free and fair because they are these complaints that are being you know raised by different uh political parties yeah they should have because remember they had s days to do to to to to declare and to indicate the process and by then they were saying there's 579 objections they needed to deal with why didn't you allow yourself time to check all those objections deal with them properly and especially the ones relating to the the numbering the the the the numbers M where you have clear evidence of uh but they they did some counting because I remember apparently free state I don't know which other Province where they had to go back and why rush to declare the elections free and fair and say these are the numbers and not resolve all those challenges because one or 500 people or 20 M that is is is a number which can give us more exactly you see why didn't you wait why didn't you go back go back because you remember those result slips is your evidence which was completed at the voting station then it's taken to the capturing side you then and it's scanned into the system you print all those where there's challenges I mean Western Cape remember oh yes why didn't you say whoo let's then print all the um result s party agents H and you you presiding officers what do you have party agents we've taken pictures because unfortunately others uh that's a challenge which we still need to work on as an organization because some of the experienced party agents will find that they have they they don't have smart phones some of them besides the the the the presiding officer refusing some to to take pictures others couldn't because they don't have smartphones and as an organization if we had resources um to to to have at least e Gadget which is able to take pictures then that's your hard evidence because if e you got 200 votes as e like the one which that um party agent was showing to Newsroom and now the number is changed to 150 or 200 I mean it's a lot it's a lot yeah and um they should have then given themselves maybe not the whole recounting of everything but then the issue of their Auditors because they were saying we are using this audit firm Then They Do Spot checks because in auditing you'll have to check if then there's one problem and one is too many because then you will then say uh if this can happen in all the uh voting stations of Western Cape then it means we have a serious disaster they should have stopped and say can we get all the evidence you've captured yes can we print all the result slips and what do you have when as a party Agent M or eff maybe okay you are querying this and we will show you here's our photo I mean photos don't lie it's real evidence I was there we finished at 3:00 to count and I've signed this is my signature of what I've signed and when I was signing there was no change but now all of a sudden it's changed I think again it goes back to the issue your training and how prepared we are yeah because the training of party agents I did that we did it as e but I also did party training and I was even telling them that training should also have the presiding officers because they train them separately I think there's a situation where when you train party agents you also bring them together because then there will be standard uh process M you don't find a situation where as a party agent you are told then you'll be allowed to take a picture to put your own sale especially after my special votes but then all of a sudden when you arrive with voting station you find this hostile presiding officer who doesn't want to listen who doesn't want you to do that so I think the issue Nao is very critical to be looked into do you strongly believe that priding officers are some of the people that should be uh fingered uh when we talk about perhaps the issue of rigging the votes because if party agents are there captures the results as they were they've been captured and the one who's responsible loading the confirmed result should be the presiding officer on the system so would you say that presiding officers are the ones that should be blamed for for these irregularities you know it starts at the voting station hence I said with those who refuse for party agents to take pictures and some of them they know it's it's the law they should after the counting they take of the pictures post those result slips in all the vs MH some of them didn't do that now they take that result sleep and their diary MH they go to the capturing site like I was based municipality where they all come and bring their um I was one of the party lizing officers they their results now you've got I officials who are then um they present and where they present an they will be saying this VD we had 1,000 people voting here we gave you H 1,000 ballot papers now you are back you are saying only 500 ballot papers have been used this ones okay we never used but the 500 200 went to e 100 went Toc so then they they need to balance first after that has balanced they give an they'll be giving it to the I so if the presiding officer managed to change oh the number when they arrive we capturing that's where the balancing is happening an they they audit is your number balancing but also and when it's captured on the system then there's capturers who will then capture whatever is in the result sleep MH so the hence I at that very moment where are the party agents are they there to monitor the proess the party agents are not there they are left they home now they're going to sleep but now they only have their pictures well as e we said exactly send your your your your photo because for me they were sending to me and then eff head office had a a WhatsApp number for honey then I was forwarding those result slips to that WhatsApp number now we they they are not there as party liing officers we are there fortunate part which I was telling them it depends attitude Municipal electoral officer because we should be sitting there as well when a presiding officer comes and present this VD H I've got 300 people who voted here this is my documentation it then they take it they check okay it balances then it's approved it's taken to the one who capture the information by a scanner and then they capture the information so unfortunately for us because the place to is small and we are sitting there we are watching on the screen watch on the screen doesn't help because you should be also there when the person theyre screen what is presented on the screen is the final product which could be compromised thank you yeah so again that process needs to be streamlined because we should be sitting there as well as party liing officers to check with okay you say e00 okay it's approved when it's captured there I'm looking okay 100 indeed is captured okay so that's the process which has been compromised now I'm no one was able to identify and say but no this handwriting you can see that this is five but now this is two but now there's five thank you because I think there's one which I've picked up when they were sending uh in the morning now the ones who were refused to take pictures because they had to go back to the voting stations and uh because they were pasted in the windows and whatever to take pictures then you find that some of them for some Str this was a five but now he a seven you know so I think when you have that evidence hence in my tweet I was saying you know what we can scream and shout and do all this but the fact of the matter is I went ahead and and and did that and when I say I'm saying we have that evidence exactly let's go back then let's have that evidence open criminal cases because that's your evidence to say you need to account where I official who was making sure you are auditing you are balancing the information and do you presiding officer you need to account how come your numbers were changed all of a sudden mean that's fraud let's forget about rigging V pure crime is fraud because you cannot do that so let them do that and I I I even said even now um I must account to Parliament because they must come and present and tell us why they failed to make sure that the issue of section 24a is properly dealt with I mean how many universities how many um matriculant who were registered and who were supposed to be told that okay next year you are going to you need to make sure that you change and they monitor whoever I who has responsible for that the issue of people who were turned back after it was announced there's evidence to that effect yeah you know and the very same thing why Rush declare when the law allows you seven days why yeah so now you're saying Advocate that the IEC should be held accountable how will that help uh the nation or how will that assist the situation as it stands uh will we see a situation where um the the IC could be taken to the Electoral court and these elections could be announced or nullified what what are the prospects you know what I I think the the other 26 parties apparently they went to court remember a number of them B Western Cape so that is for the Electoral Court to to to to decide it might not be a situation which I'm not sure that will have to be uncovered by the evidence and unfortunately the courts are not investigators so let's say then this matter is investigated and we discover that indeed there was a lot of irregularities and we speaking about so many numbers uh there's a review process because the then the courts will come in after the evidence is there and we say these elections will have to be reviewed as follows and possibly then it's a question of saying instead of you getting so many seats or so many numbers you should actually be getting so many numbers um that can can it's a process which can be looked into but let's say um that that doesn't go that far my issue is how do we redress this so that for future elections for those who are disgruntled and say but I voted but why um you know I'm no longer going to vote we still need your vote young people we still need them to still go out there and know that I will vote and my vote will indeed count yeah so it is the responsibility and the Mandate of the I to ensure that they encourage uh voting amongst the youth or all the register thats their responsibility yeah look at the the voter 10 out which is lower than the 10 out of 2019 surely this is not something to celebrate shocking yeah it's shocking yeah yeah now let's look at our democracy now it's more than 30 years we're celebrating uh this democracy and now the people have cast their votes let's look at the importance of um participating in a in a democracy where you are able to H choose for a political party of your choice would you then say with the outcome of the 2024 2024 uh National and provincial elections that South Africa has matured in terms of its democracy because you have seen the rise of a number of political parties independent candidates and now the people have spoken for the very first time in history we're going to have a coalition government it remains to be seen whether it will be a government of national Unity or majority government but what does that say to our democracy are we progressing is it I'm laughing because your your question is so loaded and now yeah I was happy in fact when I'm speaking about these investigations you know I was laughing and I was saying you know investigation I love I'm passionate about I mean s years as a public protector but even before then um you know working in in in in in in home Affairs and checking the issues of whether you qualify as a refugee and whatever so you know this H it it still shows you know yeah once you are that so because for me I'm I'm just can't wait for that investigation to take place and then so that we correct it and it's it's also part of our democracy maturing and My worry is that we are promoting we are a con conal State and sff in in our Manifesto we still say conal Supremacy is key I is a chapter 9 institution and I mean in the manifesto you've seen we said even we want the NPA to be a chapter 9 institution because we believe in how chapter 9 institutions should be independent and interference therefore we cannot allow to have this kind of I that's one thing the majority of democracy um indeed it's worrisome 30 years down the line that's what when I was doing door to door people are disgruntled and we saying you know what give us an opportunity and see whether we cannot change your lives because as e we are currently changing people's lives even if we are not in government we don't have resources remember when I'm going there and I need to help somebody their house is you know is is falling apart you find Fighters going to ask for donations so that we get um you know building material and whatever to change that whil we have a government a which has been failing but then we are saying to people therefore you cannot just say I'm no longer going to vote can you give us that opportunity to lead and to govern so that we can show you that we can change the status quo and again what we've been saying and even president cic was saying that you know what with our numbers because others will say no you I mean I'm from and the question is but how would you feel if I want to change your life and thec their majority you know without even checking is that thing indeed making sense they In Cahoots with the DA they just pass that particular law or they remove the public protector or they remove jope even the ifp was part of that you know so I think with these numbers it helps because now no one party like the ANC will just do as they please indeed our democracy is maturing which is very good but issue you find open funding ACP because part of the lot mhm um they it's a challenge because they they divide the black vote oh yes a divide and Rule and if people can then learn from that and and move away and and check the leading parties to see yourself again we still going back to the ideology and the manifesto or people's mandate how do you relate to this what this party is presenting MH and it's good Val with these numbers because now you wouldn't find ANC doing as they are pleasing and you might even find no law will be passed with that 160 because there's some legislation they've passed 230 num or sometimes being supported by ifp they had 14 members or sometimes you find a AIC which is so now the Parliamentary majority is gone it's that best ever now you know what they will be then robust debates and those rules of parliament is I I think it's the first thing also to change because they created a situation where e Parliament should be conducting oversight over the executive and the problem in South Africa was that the way um the ANC which has been in government for long is structured is that the president of thec MH is the president of the party of the of of the country remember with their majority then you find that if speaker of Parliament and Parliament should conduct oversight over the Executive now party I'm your boss now when it comes to the issue of parliament you should be my boss but then because I'm you you know I'm depending on you to deploy me as my president you find that can't deal with you I mean failed to deal with speakers to deal with the president on a number of issues because they are fearing you'll deal with me so with this issue numbers then at least we we as as opposition parties we we have a lot to say and we can change a number of things we issue accountability my portfolio committees you might find that as e we have a chairperson or we have we are leading this port fellow committee M you can't come as a minister and behave and be I mean those ministers BL were coming there Parliament you know with those rules you can't hold them to account and they forget what they are not responding to us as members of parliament they're responding to the public the people who put them there they didn't want to to to to account so now I think we should make sure they really account and there's serious accountability from from from the executive so I I think democracy has matured so much that we will be able to say to the people you've sent us to Parliament and indeed we'll make sure we are your voice because if you check the Constitution is very clear members of parliament are the voices of the masses but in in in South Africa with thec being in power for a long time they were no longer like that they would just decide as please mhm you know yeah and and now with the Pala Pala Saga it seems to be ER coming back to haunt ramapa what will be the role of the seventh Parliament uh will you be pursuing uh The palapala Saga in order to hold uh Raposa accountable because the previous administration by the way where the thec had the majority protected a number of people including the president and unfortunately towards the end of the time the speaker of parliament andula faced the music I think sometime during this week the minister of sports arts and culture zot as well now is criminally charged what would be the role of the seventh uh parliament in ensuring that um all the pending matters that somehow were snubbed by Parliament because the a abused its majority how are you going to to go about that I think that matter you've seen Ang it was also um the conal court said they will hear the eff matter mhm and um the issue of separation of powers because that's the responsibility as well of of parliament which failed us indeed it it the court might decide indeed this matter should be dealt with by the Parliament and in a proper manner and now with this composition then the speaker might even come from eff and I mean we should be having because we are not saying um like what they've established with my process of removal because there's that report which Parliament relied on to establish an ad hoc Comm now we are saying the very same process must be followed indeed as Parliament we should be given an opportunity to use thato Chief Justice's report and the president must account must come forth present his side of the story and then so that it can be decided what needs to happen because we've seen that unfortunately a number of Institutions like your public protector Reserve Bank um they tried to um in a way as well s to just um think the matter will just go away it won't go away indeed yeah this m must be dealt with definitely and many South Africans are eager to know who will then become the next president of uh South Africa or which sort of government South Africa will be under will it be government of national Unity or a minority government in your view what do you think is likely to happen in the next 14 days I would think uh that uh possibly we will t tilt towards the issue of government of national Unity or that Coalition amongst the uh parties which are pro um empowerment Improvement of the poor and the masses and this is an opportunity for us to work together I mean if we've got a 2/3 majority we can the Constitution to be actually um removing the currently the con Constitution you can't appoint a judge a public protector and anyone or the president initiating the law so that should be removed because we cannot have a parliament which is dictated to by the executive so we need a president um in fact um who would be appointed who would make sure that um we deliver for the 90% of the black people in South Africa who still living under serious poverty and I mean Unfortunately they would never do anything which will Empower and um uplift any black person instead they want to appease the in socaled da governs Western Cape there when I was protector the way the black areas are being treated I mean one area you it's it's horrible they don't do anything they just leave them to live in squala you know INE inhumane and look at you know what is happening people are dying water issuesa and everything that's where that's what da is but now they focused on saying the investors where are those investors when our people are dying HCR where are the investors when people don't have water I mean we had eling for so long now they are the ones who are always empowered because they want to do away with employment Equity be the B mining Charters they Crush that um when the minerals should be I mean eff were very clear of and strategic assets to benefit us because now we have our resources being exported to Europe but we have our people who live in in squala I mean children are still dying tlets I don't know if people realize will never do anything for them we'll still want people to remain as they are I mean they are against even the issue minimum wage they are against the issue um you know a number of things uh which they they don't support now you want a a party like that to be working butc anyway they voted with a DA in the past but I don't I think if they can just then work with the Dai they will be uh going down the train because I think 2026 elections I there there will be even the very same peoplec I don't think they will support them yeah but I think they should just be going with the other Pro left parties and uh let them not come and tell us about the markets and the rent will fall I mean they we've seen Banks manipulating the rent no one is dealing with them we are quiet like the same media is quiet but they busy promoting is investors all those in fact they're promoting uh the the white agenda the white supremacy yeah in Africa in Africa where we are rich in fact uh we're the richest exactly when it comes to minerals but these white people and investors they come and invest what they're benefiting out of our own very own it's looting exactly I mean it's looting I want us to deal with the fundamental differences of a national government of unity and a minority government but now I also want us to try and understand what is the what is going to happen will if one of the two um options is being considered whether national government of unity or minority government with that in place will Parliament be able to amend the Constitution for example section 25 of the Constitution given that these political parties that would have formed either the government of national Unity or minority government have got different ideologies and policies will it be possible um hence I was saying to you what will be the best is for the parties the the on the left well your parties which believes in that align ideologically exactly and the issue of expropriation of um land without compensation issues of the um nationalization of key strategic assets your mines The Reserve Bank or State Bank I mean if we have those parties aligning and working together I mean if you havec MK e just to mention a few I don't know where inata is standing on some of those issues I think if we can get 2/3 majority with the other smaller parties who are supporting that agenda because the key issue now is how do we like radically I mean for the past 30 years ANC has been wishy-washy leaving everything in the hands of capitalist and you know we never had economic freed so I was just checking is you know the coalition government M where it's parties who have kind of similar ideologies as we we are saying currently and uh no single party has majority then government of national Unity it's where you form that Coalition after H in times of you would want to transition I mean we we know in the past it was formed remember and you remember even e ifp threatening not to join Mandela had to negotiate with the former or the late to join the government of national Unity remember he was the minister of Home Affairs yes for the first time yeah mang yes was a minister of of Home Affairs yeah so that government of national Unity they formed it though I had they pulled out of it when they were interviewing lindu saying National Party or da then couldn't work with them because policies they are way way way different they just focused on white people nothing more nothing less you know I wonder if tables could turn and we have them LA City of Cape Town they go and stay a k and we will see can they survive without a flashing toilet for once you know one shocking thing uh people from The Villages would not understand as well I was shocked when I started working as a p protector I'm sorry to just digress that's fine when I was going to it was for the first time informal people are sharing toilets you know toilets of that informal settlement you'll find 00 they k i it was something which I I it was shocking for me I mean when you go to villages to there's nothing like that there's nothing like that because I might have my pit toilet but at least is my and I think that also protects me and my family because you don't find a situation where young girl will have to walk at night to go and Rel it's it's like a communal ablution facility yeah so and uh how it's also kept so I think if we can have that government which will just at the key or which what is central for them let's forget about positions and everything sure how can we change the lives of South African because I mean poverty is still extreme I mean youth unemployment more than 60% and what are we breeding here because now we find young people as cic would say saying okay you give me 350 I'll go and drink that 350 and that's it andu has also a degree but we are drinking together or we are receiving the same 350 we are sitting what kind of society are you building m h a doomed Society exactly so I think these parties must just look into that forget about themselves just say how as this country which is so rich in Mineral Resources we've got you know apparently our coal can last us for the next 200 years why can't we revive so I think these are some of the things these parties should be looking into how do we change South Africans mhm let's forget about who the president and yeah those ones they just come when it's like this I'm asking where were they when all these things were happening when pal Pala somebody is having dollar US is quiet why didn't they say anything there's their law is saying you can't have so much dollars yeah outside of us why are they quiet and those euros and and everything then it's fine it's The Reserve Bank as well his mom exactly say not a perfect transaction what's that and when if you have those that money MH they arrest you they wouldn't they wouldn't allow that to happen yeah so and I mean some of us we investigated the CR 17 bank statements and we know everything what is happening the m is who paid who you know so people then have captured president just to make sure that they give them contracts they um Implement whatever they would want to be implemented I think we need a president who will be corruption free in the sense any strings attached to that person who will be the president and we so R is definitely not the option with everything which I mean he failed I mean somebody was saying I think or whoever oh c on Twitter saying take ram in a is a CEO of a company oh yeah yeah advate yes a company which was performing at 62% you take it down to 57 you take it down to 40% are you are you really performing somebody will tell an unemployed graduate no keep on searching for work and [Laughter] old and but you find South Africans still going back and voting for a party like that which has a president who does that yeah I I think people unfortunately it's a challenge hence sff we saying if given that whatever responsibilities we will excel MH as much as we excelling as much as we excelling in whatever in remember we we we we we do but um unfortunately we were given not given that power by the by the voters M because they felt I maybe let's remain at 99.5% M but I don't think we will stop helping the public yeah and we can always use um the AC um set up where the eff is leading key positions and yeah currently leading as bar of prog and what we can do yeah Johannesburg in Johannesburg yeah and many other Council now um Advocate looking at the the prospects of forming um a new government this obviously is a new setup Al together uh throughout the ANC has gotten too comfortable at the helm but now the tables have turned H we are likely to see a new setup when it comes to um you know politics of Coalition so who's got the bargaining power more bargaining power when it comes to Coalition is it the ANC that then decides that sets the terms that we are going to be in Coalition with the daf MK and so and so who gets to decide and who can be left out you mentioned that a party like the da that is more interested in appeasing the investors by the way investors only care about maximizing profit profit so how do we then deal with that situation which part does has got the more power to decide who are we getting in bed to with with yeah you know unfortunately nowc an is having 40% mhm so uh we are looking up to them to you know say we are comfortable in doing the following um and imagine a situation where let's say nothing is formally pronounced mhm um and we people are swor in we are in Parliament we can align amongst each other you know we say ideologically MH and nothing is signed and da not nothing between ANC and da nothing between maybe ANC like as if we are forming now this government of national unity and we formalizing it let's say we don't formalize anything we go and be sworn in then it will be for each Pary caucus to discuss and say you know what sff indeed if they put Rosa forth as president actually the first process is to uh vote for the the appointment of the speaker M you know so it's for us then to decide who are we voting with uh which name are we supporting then we will be given that um mandate because remember as a party or as a member of parliament you don't just operate Hector Skelter and decide on your own I mean that is decided so if the party says we are appointing the speaker remember the speaker and then the deputy speaker MH then the president then if we vote for the president uh who are we because we might even say okay we also have our president cic MH we want um him to be the president of the country and what stop stops us from doing that so if other parties can support us and we get the numbers we can have our cic as president so I don't think as well we should be allowing ourselves to be you know because media creates manufactur consent you know that they will then Hammer this thing that no da andc now yeah then now people are just uh uh only thinking about that and they don't think out of the box what if we do that and what if we operate like that sff I think we've mentioned several times city of and city of M okay you have the numbers we will support you so that you can pass the budget okay and that is benefiting who the masses M but we are not saying we we we we we we we we are in Coalition with you or we believe in your policies and ideology MH I mean in for instance we brought in in JC it's the eff under da we said we we we have this policy insourcing and we will support it yeah and remember explained that mashaba turned against them they didn't support him in passing a budget but once mashaba passed that policy then they so it's it's it's like that and in all those things we are focusing on what is benefiting the public MH so I don't think we should be worried about who who um yeah yeah then da can be just put in their place with their 21% if you can just work together and I think IFC is clever and they want to be re resuscitated from this fall to yeah to the Grave they must align to the left they must align to the left and if they do that some people will say is at least now we are seeing progress with our help actually because we we can help them a lot to get back that trust so you you you strongly believe that these um coalitions can work out perfectly and they could be stability and growth given if we have the right forces uh that align in many respects obviously mainly ideologically um and also policy-wise no we will we will have a lot of progress because it's not POS a lot will change and people won't just sit on their Laurels and not do their work they will have to account now and remember what is happening and if you not performing you are not guaranteed your position mhm so you must uh be U on your A game exactly so this will help now as a president don't think you can be appointed but if you're not performing then it means we can think otherwise MH I think we can also draw lessons from India as well India is just came out from elections and now they headed for a coalition because the BJP party couldn't secure a 23 majority so possibly their coalitions can work out given that somebody who is at the top whoever who's a choosen president uh would know and understand that this is not permanent I have to account and I have to work very hard and again will then appreciate the the the power of the people you know you won't take people for granted I thinkc has taken people for granted for a long time they became so arrogant m i mean if you could see the behavior of their ministers the parliament they do as they please M they are not even accounting their protected you know I mean several times I mean look at how we were treated as eff our members being removed from parament H being taken for disciplinary hearing it was terrible for what just for asking for accountability and the speakers and the the acting speakers will just not listen to what we are saying I mean they had to pass some rules because they are saying how uh parties must behave when the state of the nation just specifically uh to deal with us and then the media will then portray us as being violent you know these people who are not respecting I mean now when the Pres cic was saying no we are fine with the elections let's move on mhm a lot of people were criticized izing attacking why because you why must we always be fighting for your battles when you are still the very same people who they voted for find they voted for the samec you know others are even voting for The Da there are people who are still well black people who are voting for The Da and how has been your experience uh in Parliament Advocate I understand you were a project of uh you a project of the establishment how was the reception um is this is the Hostile and you served in the portfolio committee on Justice and Correctional Services uh where the eff advocated for obviously the capacity of the chapter 9 institution such as the office of the public protector Human Rights Commission and the gender commission to be biffed up what are some of the key um uh uh changes or rather U things that you have put forward to make sure that in fact uh the committee or that sector uh is Advanced maybe let me start again your question is multi-prong the reception yeah it was hostile because even when I'm making my presentations and declarations you'll still find the Howers of the ANC you know yeah you are incompetent you don't know the law and well they they'll just deal with that but then anyway not being bought but with my uh the fighters commissar and the leadership they've been very much supportive and they had so much trust in my capabilities I mean I was uh told to go into the Justice portfolio committee commiss yako was still not well m um for a long time she was serving in that committee M so I had just got in and my input and contributions and the proposals which one put forth especially uh the issues of how we can change the the the the accountability of the uh chapter 9 institutions I mean we had NPA appearing before the uh committee they wanted to it there there's one law which was changed the NPA act where they wanted the Independent directorate to be part of NPA and how it's structed because for us as eff we're saying why why the rush I think we need the whole revamp and we need the NPA to be a chapter n institution because by doing that doing peace Mill amendments won't help the bigger part of dealing with the crime and prosecuting crime efficiently and independently because currently as well if you check the cases which NPA is persuing um You' find that it's kind of aligned to The Narrative of who must we go after uh you know instead of just being openly dealing with all the cases I mean there's one issue which I raised in Parliament which was followed up by Mel I think took it to court or somebody it was brought to my attention the issue of ABB good as NPA they violated the very same law by allowing AB to just pay themselves to pay a fine how do you pay a fine and because that you should be saying I plead guilty and I'm paying the fine I acknowledge that I was wrong sure so no that is not the case you just paying your prose your way out of prosecution you know there's a section 205 which will demand you to say I acknowledge I'm wrong I'm guilty but then I will pay so much fine that was not done with that so those are the things which want raise there's that thing of um the hostility of that committee I mean members of thec being in cahoots with the da with the appointment of the Deputy public protector oh you they claim that it will be biased because you're present I mean and you know when I was sitting at home and thinking they then it was kind of an entrapment because when we were short list when I joined they already shortlisted for the Human Rights Commission position and then when we were conducting the the interviews you know when you join the institution you must learn and see how they operate and that's where they were and them were saying declaring there okay I know so and so I know MAA you know or I know this n you know declaring there before interviewing the person MH now with me the issue of and the deputy public protector it was the first time short listing with them and according to the Parliamentary rules it say you need to H declare actually for when the incident happens before you can deal with it um for instance before the interviews then I thought okay this is the Declaration I know this person and how I know the person M now we should list da is quiet they don't say anything and the it means that was their entrapment MH and in an institution like for instance in the as a public protector before we conduct any interviews as the chairperson I say here's the form okay uh complete uh members of the panel mhm do you know any candidate here how do you know them and that was because of the auditor general when they were auditing to also as part of making sure that we don't have comebacks now there in in in that portfolio committee nothing was was there and then okay you follow the practice okay we short list it's fine and one of the candidates who is representing me a Au Court MH um was aded by one of thec okay was working there was suggested by the others now when we were short listing da never said anything MH when we were about to interview we said as a collective 9:00 before we can call the candidates da quiet before we start the interview then they say you know I can't sit because I should have declared and me I'm prepared to declare before interview who that b the only one and I mean he's raising she's raising the same things she was facing NPA she left NPA because she was under investigation remember and she led to the suspension and the dismissal of onea who's now recently won the case so that's how they were they was just scheming behind my back MH but they never succeeded yeah so with this Arrangement now yeah you'll find that the composition we might be chairing some of the of the Committees and it's all because we want accountability and I think one thing which is lacking commes for in Justice I've seen they still feel prot they are not implemented you know public protector office must do something which is wrong it's them as members of parliament it's must be sure that their media elections are implemented thank you because these ministers they account to us we should be making sure that if it's about education education portfolio committee and that person is assessed based on that because another thing there's one thing which um has been streamlined AG's reports when a person goes before portfolio committee and account and the first thing is what are the what is your what are the findings against you or how are you performing as far as that is concerned because that's your performance parameter therefore that also should be this the yach stick we are using when you come you a DG you are a minister how are you making sure remal actions are implemented because that's not a fighting game it's a issue this institution is helping to improve Service delivery you know they act like I used to tell them train or when we were doing induction executive members ethics act as protector Human Rights Commission and whatever we are like your kidney because we we clean for you at the back then who's shining it's you because if you listen to us and the recommendations then you'll be fine but members of the public public if they are not happy with the public protector they should be reporting to the speaker it speaker normally will take it to the portfolio committee if they fail to act they are not doing their work then as portfolio committee we should be holding the public protector because they account to parament to account so instead they let the the reports GA dust dust they don't do anything but even the public protector if people are complaining about me or the public protector or Human Rights Commission way they treat the public they should be having a a section because that's what I was saying we need to have a researchers or a team who will make sure that things are implemented they were also failing to implement their own decisions you appear before the commit Justice committee decisions are taken they don't do anything I mean I've seen that with the magistrates commission if you can hear people magistrates have been suspended five six years ago but they every year they go and and and account parament but nothing is being done so I think we need very efficient portfolio committees as well because they need to make sure that they hold the executive the chapter 9 institutions or any member of the public to account and talking about chapter 9 institution how is the efff going to ensure that uh because anything can happen maybe we can wake up with the minister of uh justice and Correctional Services being the eff Minister now what is the eff going to do to ensure that it increases capacity in the chapter 9 institutions I I think um it's not only chapter n institutions are not only falling under a minister of justice so I think that also will be um the issue of um in in the portfolios we serving let's say home Affairs I remember is a chapter 9 reports TOS yes we've got Casa a chapter 9 reports to communication we've got the public protect Human Rights Commission reports to just not report per se but our budget is appropriated through Justice how can we make sure that is changed the budget is not appropriated through those Ministries it's appropriated directly from National treasur though we go to National treasury we beat for our budget but when they appropriate they appropriate it through each gender commission for instance is done through Ministry of women whatever and you find that sometimes the way they are allocated they are dealt with is not proper these institutions must be crl for instance commission for religious and linguistic also through arts and culture where you'd find that they St stifle the performance they should not be linked to departments we the independence s we are saying chapter will have to completely independent and even their budget I mean look e Parliament is not using Public Finance Management Act is using this parliamentary Finance money so budget was directly allocated so those chapter 9 institutions we can also find a way how also they are budget is allocated directly but as well they are fully funded so that they assist the government to perform their responsibilities I mean look at the report the Human Rights Commission which also took long um to release about the issue of poverty Eastern Cape a lot of children dying from Hunger poverty so if you have a Human Rights Commission which is fully funded and is capacitated they can issue those reports reports quicker and when those reports are issued they're deliberated in Parliament and that Minister and that Province it's held to account or they need to put a plan on how they'll be implementing so that that can change the lives of the people so I think those are the things which should should happen going forward MH yeah and um when can we expect the next sitting of uh Parliament I understand the IEC has has already submitted the list of uh MPS and mpls to the chief uh justice um raymon zondo and um yeah the list has already been gazetted when can we expect the next or the first very first sitting of the 7th Parliament um it shows as being the 17th of June that's what has been communicated um then it means there will be then people taking oath and then um I think in inauguration might be around the 19 then the work starts mhm so we still have time now you'll wonder why the rush MH because the whole of next week nothing will be happening oh yeah because the whole of next week um yeah the only time is the 14 the 17th which is a Monday mhm and the MK Factor um I understand as talks are underway the M MK party is not warming up as yet and uh the likelihood is that they're going to boycott uh the sitting which may affect the Quorum of uh Parliament what is uh likely to happen in that regard you know that one is a very interesting debate and I think that's where we need a lot of um legal Scholars constitutional expect not about divorce who are very compromised sure so I think that's something which we need a serious engagement and deliberation that's where you needa black Lawyers Association to be vocal legal brains to advise the country on this because if the Constitution saying 350 to 400 you know they sitting then others are coming back and saying no but the Quorum is 2011 and or section I think in the Constitution which is saying you need a third because others when they calculate they say you need 133 to uh appoint uh the president because I think the key we shouldn't also be focusing a lot on the president we should be focusing on appointing the speaker Deputy speaker then if they are not there what what are the the repercussions of US constituting Government the parliament because here it's a National Assembly and how do we make sure that we do that H quicker or whether that would mean we can't be forming a quorum and therefore it means if no government is formed or no president and anyone is appointed within the first they say 30 days or whatever then it's a re we are going to to to we need to go back and vote m i mean that is so quiet and I think um that should be dealt with expediently because um unless that has no problem we can proceed or they will just uh wait until their members are swor in mhm I have no idea but we we we we we we we in this country where we've allowed only a few people will just be speaking and it will be as if it's gospel truth and of which is not like that M well that then reaffirms the beliefs that coalitions are unstable and they are very likely to H collapse service delivery because if Quorum does not reach that will affect the work of parliament which obviously part of it includes uh you know providing oversight remember as well if there's no uh appointment of a president it means we'll operate with the current president and the current executive do you want that the ones who failed so I think we will have to move forth I don't think issue a government of n of um coalitions are a failure coalitions as well they keep you on your feet and that's the best ever because it's like your 360° um Performance Management M yeah because there it's truly that you know when you are monitored for your performance my institutions there are some companies which are very brilliant in doing that because we're not saying here you can conduct the interviews and whatever but the impact of your interviews to the receiver mhm M because they even check the recipient of your service so this one is the perfect example you are not only to be using your ma majority and whereas people are crying are dying they have no water I mean we don't have water as we speak there are TS they'll tell you no we've installed Taps but we don't have water I mean the government which is not even bothered issue um Evergreen contracts how many Evergreen contracts are there now we are told maret and them es was you know cost serious [Music] mess problem is a main me problem because throughout I think uh over the election period there was no Loot sheding and it remains suspended that shows that this problem yeah it is it is it it's meant to do that but remember they they wanted to unbundle it and they've passed one piece of legislation which will deal with the the issue of electricity generation M now recently bonc because they were rushing all these laws passing passing though we objected to some they went ahead M so I think those some of those things will have to be relooked mhm mhm we'll have to revisit them some of the appointments we'll have to relook into them I mean he's rushing to extend people's contracts which have not expired yet those are the things which like you said in the beginning looting spray exactly so yeah this is the best ever for democracy for our democraty yeah I is the best ever is the best ever everyone will have to then prove themselves not yeah and um I think now no one is going to blame anyone because the people were given the chance to decide on who leads them and this is what the people this is the will of the people thank so let's um embrace the new change and see where it takes us but I believe with the e in the game surely a lot of things are going to to be radicalized and revolutionalized in the process whatever we are being given as eff indeed people will no will never be the same and I think we will make sure that we show those who didn't vote for us that you know um you still have an opportunity to vote for us come 2026 MH MH yeah because then those people it will depend on your percentages if you have 73 4% position 160 in in Parliament 160 out of that 160 they said 73 will come from that National list and then 86 will come from the nine provinces M so that Regional list of vote or allocation those people will come from there yeah so the let's look at the three ballots National Regional and provincial some of us including myself I was seeing the regional because it included the independent candidates for the first time let's just talk about the variety and the how the implications of these three ballots were people not convin conf confused at all and uh if anything how has it you know shaped the election outcome um remember that the provincial the national ballot has always been there the national ballot provincial ballot has always been there they included the third ballot to accommodate the independent oh candidates okay so the independent candidates then in that one then they also included all the those who are contesting the political parties in the past you only had two and in these two parties were allocated seats according to they used to submit two lists to the I the list of people they would want to see uh in the National Assembly and the list of people who will be serving in the National Assembly but representing the province interest the ones who are serving in the ncop MH remember so all in all is 400 members MH now what then changed is that this ballot they then took that element of the list of Province to National then they included it in this National pallot this bot so now you find that all the people who were in this or parties they got an allocation of seats M hence you could see I was saying the ANC they have 160 seats in total oh yes but now the allocation per I it showed you it's a 73 plus 86 so the 73 is from that National list which was submitted to a I so it will show 1 to 73 okay and then the 86 it's all the allocations they got in the provinces if inanga they have eight people their provincial list of Province to National will they will take one two s to add to to that 86 and then in all in all they've got 160 then as a party they will decide who which MPS will sit and cop which ones will will sit we we National Assembly so that's how it's it's structured so the people when we were conversing door too we were encouraging them you know what um because some of them were so saying I'm stch this party you know and you say to the person okay at least give us one ballot when you trying to convince them though for us we were sending all those conversing sheets to um to to head office and head office was calling the potential voters yeah but the main intention as well was to say you know what give us at least something so that we can also be able to assist in changing your life because basically that's that and I would still say people must not be disgruntled must not stay at home mhm because staying at home won't help you now the outcomes are out whatever the parties will be doing it impacts you directly MH so when V because anything we do anyway you price of bread whether you don't have water whether you don't have electricity you have a degree you're sitting at home that's politics M and I think young people unfortunately is they are still not taking that responsibility seriously yeah and all the best Advocate um qu I know you're in the list so I know you're going to serve the people uh with the legitimacy and uh you know honesty honesty and uh I know you're always uh decisive uh despite uh the hostility but I understand that you were in the struggle so you're going definitely going to deliver for our people no definitely we will do that and we are not there for ourselves we are there to have the people of South Africa and I think cic would say you know what comes first is South Africa more than anything and its people so yeah I think let's just go out there and uh do our part yeah no thank you very much for coming through Advocate mquan we really appreciate the comprehensive analysis of the uh election postmortem and what is going to happen in the foreseeable future you have taken the people into confidence and now everyone is cleared so we really appreciate and good luck ahead and understand you're going to serve with diligence and honesty and honesty yeah so song of the day uh [Music] okay okay no that's all the time we had for for today thank you thank you very much advocate for joining us and also thank you very much the people of South Africa Africa and the world for tuning in h we are signing out J this song is dedicated to you by Advocate and yes this is the eff podcast we'll continue bringing you the content that suits your ears and everything that you need so we have come to the end my name is Titus Tong until we meet again good [Music] our for [Music] f [Music] [Music] [Music] our

Channel: Economic Freedom Fighters

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Id: -H_YLkC6GrY

Length: 90min 35sec (5435 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 07 2024