EFAP #207 - Breaking down Rings of Power's awful fifth episode w/Disparu, The Little Platoon & Shad

wait what are you saying about Achilles Achilles if you were um I I get curious about like headshots and video games sort of with the same concept where if you are Achilles and you're running around uh Troy or wherever you you know have it you have a gale time right everything's great yes running around I'm so great I'm so great look at my murmidons aren't they beautiful and you get shot with an arrow but it hits it comes in from the front right so like maybe from the top so an arrow comes down and enters your foot from the top and then comes out of the heel on the back side does that count oh which part of the body did it hit first it hit the hit the top of the foot and then it went through the heel through the back that must still count I'm sure if you're shot through the you know all parts of the body that are included along the way by like a railgun I think you'd be that's what people would say right you shot through all those things yeah if it hits your Achilles yeah even if it is from the back like if you wish I don't know why if you would be speared through the ass all the way up into the skull I think he would still count as big speed through the skull you know you know I don't know I don't know usually people when people say they were shot in something like they were shot in their heart or shot in the head they're always referring to the part in which the projectile hits first and so all right let's push this to the furthest degree okay yeah someone's aiming at you from top down bird's eye view they shoot it it enters the head goes through the body through the leg all the way through there like it's completely straight and then out the heel at the back end but I think people would say at first he was shot in their head I think I think colloquially right or organ like you said shut in the heart not shot in the chest so isn't it the most fatal thing that gets hit that's probably true actually yeah good good point good point like it'll whatever the most vital supersedes all the other parts like the bit that killed you what if you shot from the heart up through into the brain which do you choose to say or vice versa a surgeon had forgot a gun inside you when it was so sorry I want to say ye [ __ ] up whatever uh what if he was shot in the penis and then it went through the heart and then through the head so if you were just blown up by a nuke what would you say shot in the head shot in the house like probably just yeah it's just eviscerated which is what collateral should be after episode sixes see this is how I know you know you hate women because you didn't specify everybody should feel that way you just said her well she's the only one we saw go into the death Cloud I I everyone covered everyone that probably you're right but yeah I mean it would annihilate the buildings yeah it did annihilate the buildings you saw it yeah like aloha we all probably ought to talk about that area I've got two episodes right now but it's like well we'll be able to talk about that in like eight hours don't worry they could have easily have made that better by just showing it to be a cloud but they made sure that you knew how hot this was how destructive was it's got fire it's setting fires on fire yeah they did it once with the with [ __ ] Fallen Kingdom a long time ago never made fun of it I don't know I knew well that wasn't that what that's a difference because in on Isla Blue Boy or whatever it was where all the dinosaurs live that was just a normal volcano so the pyroclastic Cloud that was rolling down that came from the the you know belch from the Earth itself that that's fine it's normal volcano Mount Doom you have to remember is evil oh evil volcano oh it was cold so it you know in this in the topsy-turvy world those Lord of the Rings I was just gonna be honest it very well might be really cold I mean we've seen fire in this show so it might be I need a crunchy in the Topsy Turvy world of rings of power too much the name of Lord of the Rings with this crap the shape of the Earth changes because of a magic [ __ ] spell all right let's let's just let's roasted oh my god let's roll with it all right yeah even even still wrecks we can separate our Rigs and power Lord the Rings surely we'd be like like what your elfic is like well ever since those [ __ ] made the earth round I can't see nearly as far as I used to this is a soft Nerf to Health Vision why are you gonna go [ __ ] everything up so uh we got we got us a new guest on this wonderful new efap 207 Mr Mr disparoo over here on the furthest left who I met I believe on open bar a couple times been talking all kinds of media and stuff first time you visited the Maya Bode which is held together by myself a doggo and a widget I was about to say Witch Doctor plague doctor I've heard I wouldn't want to offend um so hello hi welcome uh yeah great to be here um this will be the the fourth time that I've ended up watching each episode except this time it'll be an even more excruciating details I know I I watch it then I watch it to record then I watch it through to editing why do you not just watch it to record the first time because it's funnier if you know what's coming because like you can put things at the start of the video that pay off later on oh yeah I guess so I don't do it deliberately but videos tend to have like a theme joke going through them they're just like how I start you can have a lot of those sorts of I hope they don't do thing and then they do it and you go oh good God what even is the theme of rings of power what's the theme that's actually a good question anything that can go wrong will go wrong because that's the theme of the writers evil always wins okay I like how all the good people are evil like half watts are evil that's my favorite part of the show no Harvard's for episode six I was so looking forward to hearing about the cannibalism and stuff but nope no more details need the sunshine yellow berries again thankfully there are always left yeah because yeah only two hours left of this insane nonsense yeah the horrified sections were very short I say that as if there's no more seasons on the way can you imagine if you like went as a group to Tesco or something and they didn't have as many mushrooms as they did last week you're like oh better kill the children kill the tall guy it was his fault wait if they go for all five seasons and there's Nine episodes of season at around an hour long have we got 38 hours more rings of power to look forward to uh um I thought it was 50 total right so to be fair I'm basing that off of an idiot so I I don't actually know if that's true it's uh if it's just five seasons reported it's probably yeah it's probably just the length of this season times five right I don't see why not like the finales might be longer that's what I'm worried about the final and off finale or something yeah because I thought they had just chopped up the because if you have 10 episodes of an hour that makes sense Eight Episodes means each of them are an hour with change to make up for those two across the eight I was hoping that we just had that not that we're gonna get like a two-hour [ __ ] lost episode Jesus yeah because it's not gonna add up they're about what an hour and five minutes long unless they're including the credits and stuff which or maybe that could that could actually save us please um so yeah actually I'm assuming I don't know who he hasn't met I think you've all met before right because Sanders put on you're both on Friday night tights right and a little platoon I've not met Rags before oh oh probably not fringy either right but okay well everyone's saying um oh yes pray I remember um well uh I mean I think you're probably all relatively familiar with the format here but we're gonna go scene by scene detail by detail and uh complain um talk about uh everything is this one or two things to praise right guys like some there is one or two things to praise yeah there is I'm sure of it there's one or two things to praise there's a nice sword all right at the end of episode five when they have these big shots of uh numenor as they're all set in sale I was just struck by like my God this show is expensive and yeah I just I don't care what's going on I don't care what's happening it has some nice shots the cream of course you're right there was a horse on the ground horse a crane there's a green horse I thought it was flying at first and then I noticed it was secured by literally nothing but rope I was thinking of myself oh ow but crane horse I was like oh episode six that's the one where I'll uh it'll be tough since stop talking we can get through five and I was like reminding myself like oh five I said those barrels were full of oil and people kept creating me no actually it's wine that makes it worse not better yeah wait they're all what that's not why it wasn't no thick white noise Chardonnay either though we're going to introduce Pinot graduccio to Middle Earth yeah that [ __ ] does not look like wine to me but I wouldn't whine that's like lamp you have to drink something on the way over there yeah oil enjoy the ocean's water your drink fat there you go yeah he's drinking water yeah yeah water is good for you you said you can't see water you can't that won't make you better yeah you can't satisfy yourself or something yoga said that they do say that it's wine in the show do they actually say it's wine what you know what Lord when it's on fire crazy I that doesn't look like sure I'm pretty sure they call them casks and uses the task of wine um you have a cask of oil I suppose because it had because it even had the little the little spouts the little spigots right with oil right you could you could there's nothing that would stop you from using a little spigot Cask to well have either way we can all agree it's [ __ ] yes it's not freaking TNT Michael Bay is why nice the what what he's what he swims back to shore the guy actually says a cask went up as well it's like it's very common okay explosives I I can I can believe that their ships randomly explode all the time considering that they leave unattended lit lamps we're labeling all the issues or something we don't even hear getting to all right okay all right we'll talk about in five but he lied to call this a chronological breakdown gosh there's a fight scene to dance episode and it killed me we're gonna be I'll get us started all right so we we joined back with good old Nori and uh [ __ ] what's it not Gandalf Oldman he's uh and immediately media man because he begs to differ oh nice there's there's all kinds of uh things you could take issue I imagine on everything but I was surprised myself I was like let's see how long I can go and like the second this starts the idea is she's like teaching him English or the equivalent of whatever and already I was like no none of this makes sense no that's English there's first off we have subtitles so you know he could just look at those if he's confused yeah but that's like you teach me you just talk to them and then they pick out the useful words that you then have to explain with more English he's from okay what does he understand they speak English in space have you not seen Star Trek yeah it's worse than that it's not just that he doesn't know English he doesn't know the concepts of the words to begin with but the moment she says the word all of the concepts relating to that word spring into his brain so he doesn't know what death is when he killed those fireflies he didn't know he'd killed them until she expl like says the word death then he understands what death is and that's why I killed those fireflies that's ridiculous it's like the moment someone tells him a word sexually he doesn't understand it and then five seconds later immediately does it doesn't sound really annoying when he says he says why am I good and the audience is thinking yeah why are you yeah why are you good Nori's like obsessed she's like you are a good person it's like what what do you you have no clue what you're dealing with he fell from space bro like what why are you assuming everything like you could argue it's like a hopeful thing or whatever but at the same time why don't you ask him who he is where he's from lots of normal questions do you have a name and then she Point like she he does the me me Jane you Tarzan thing yeah where you point and then say the thing but no we don't get a lot of that instead she's like you know what a book is and he's like a book and then she's like lots of pages written word tell stories or information then he goes oh yeah totally get it now yep I know all of those other things and I now know what book is like that's not it she uses words that he probably should have no context to understand with to explain words that he should have no context to understand it like all right you're like the more complex concept is much harder for him than a simple word to understand and yeah it's the reverse here for some reason like I was frustrated watch so I was just like they're not gonna put Eddie after this he's just gonna be able to talk completely fluidly in a couple episodes later all right that's that's that'll be it yeah but did stupid people who watch this and think it's good they will see that and they'll go oh he couldn't talk at first went on a journey now he could talk a little bit wow that's so clever because it makes sense he wouldn't be able to talk all at once he had to learn how to talk and she's teaching him oh my God I've seen those sense I think defenses of it being like no he knows a lot of English just not all of it it's like he doesn't know death and kill what is it what is this like contextless English that he had like oh whatever it's too difficult to make anything they made for themselves there was no reason that you wouldn't be able to talk when he just came down they could have skipped all of this and all of the problems that came with it makes it more mysterious makes people wonder if he's evil I actually do a lot of that this episode too I think I think that's a lot of what they're doing it is just so art who's Sauron and that's the mystery they want to keep going at any cost even if it's just destroys characters or this is exactly what they did in Wheel of Time oh who's the dragon so they ruined those characters and they're doing the same here and so fortunately oh you know what before we highlight the song Rags you you pointed out when we were watching this so [ __ ] true the way she is moving her little I don't even know what to call it like the carriage of whatever the the way they've got this uh arranged look at how her arms are and how she's walking it's like God that's so not efficient compared to like the person in the best position at this point is probably Gandalf doing the push here from the back but she should probably have a bar right that goes across and then yeah she's grabbing it she's grabbing it in a way where her hands don't have anything to catch so to speak so she just threw sheer grip she has to pull this cart instead of there being like a crossbar to push or pull um or or something to stop her hand or something like that I don't know she's she just has a grip like an iron the custom made and they made it horribly inefficient just like gets custom made as in you'll cuss when you try to move it wasn't the most efficient for him to be at the front of the truck and then lift and pull oh yeah he probably should he's having to push down and cause they're doing if all they're doing is lifting that's not too bad especially because it's on the wheels so I suppose it gives them something to do and he doesn't have to lift while he pushes I'm trying to rationalize this so it makes some level of sense well so this was something that I had no I had no expectation of this and I I don't think you did either or I said but the the sheer Journey these [ __ ] are on I had no idea I thought it was going to take like maybe two days maybe it's two weeks yeah the director said it was two weeks but it zooms out on the map I was like millions of me they just went around a whole mountain and that's like a fifth of a third of their Journey like what the hell why I mean I notices these little freaking guys walking across the the fields filled with perils that apparently they avoided all of it except this time where they just walked themselves into a swab why yeah thought we stayed on the solid ground that you see in the context of the show but I like when it zooms out and there's like this destroyed Caravan next to him you're like oh that's that last group of people who killed when they came along he just left them behind again they'll head back there to check for bodies for for food if you will it's oh [ __ ] that's how all the people got in the marsh those are just Hobbits are harfits who fell in the swamped him they always right yes oh yeah and the reason that they look very big in the water is because as we all know whenever you put a um Hobbit or a hard foot in the water and you leave it they start to expand as they soak up the water so it looks like a normal sized person after you leave them in there for a while yeah they're just this explains everything the panning across this whole map this this shot at I legit was like where are you like what even what part of Middle Earth have we gotten to now are they heading to Mordor I don't know why if you're if you specialize in hiding in camouflage why would you ever make a campsite in the middle of a beach where there's no cover around you at all I don't know because that's that's not what they'd be looking for right if you're looking for harford's hiding you're not going to be looking for carts with you know where they're partying in the middle of the the open area that's not what they were looking for we're looking for harford's hiding in the grass and stuff and this whole thing reeks of saving budget for the fact that you never see the other Hobbits in this entire thing there's about two other ones and that family and there's supposed to be a whole village here they even made them Park away from them for basically no reason just so it's like wow which was weird right because this week they weren't that far ahead of them when they started using uh uh Spaceman to move the The Carriage so why did they fall behind so far that we can't even see them like Miles Ahead sabotage it's through the magic of editing so uh I'm getting you you all at least love the song especially the part where she said not all who Wonder or wander are lost that was a sorry right it was a fun moment I think that's a great reference to a great man um if he saw this episode of phlegm he would he would really enjoy what's been done with his work absolutely you would appreciate Galadriel is a very strong character he would appreciate Nori as a strong character he would really appreciate Bronwyn as a strong character yep and and the queen region is a strong character yep and I think I think she'd really really like that she'd like I don't know why I said she um I'm losing it man she would like home he'd he'd like Homer the most so I don't know if I'm just not big brain enough uh it's hard to say the show yeah it's very likely uh so I I get if you wonder you might get lost but is the first one Wanderers in you're thinking about things oh and yes so how does thinking about things inherently lead to possibly getting lost I'm not sure wondering yeah I think it comes down to they're meant to hide and keep to themselves and so you're not supposed to think about the outside world or get lured into it because that's dangerous you just live in your own little bubble don't think about the outside don't go off the trail get curious the tallest barf thistle gets snipped or whatever the the [ __ ] hard put proverb was okay it's um it works well enough as a statement it's just the context yeah thing in this little tune while everything around is incredibly annoying and frustrating and stupid and yeah everyone do you even know her name I don't uh fat one what page was her name Randy yes that one Nori's the main one no she's let me use the fat one ah poppy Glory then that's a good it's easy to remember because you like you think of a balloon can pop right and she's kind of a little bit in shape yeah so you're like oh you're poppy because you can pop like or maybe I need poppies to enjoy this show per habiths oh [ __ ] I forgot about this scene next doesn't the dinner plate people the dinner plate people yeah the uh I because I only know meta things about these people they're looking for Sauron right well the show hasn't technically contextualized that yeah yeah they're just looking at thing and and they look nefarious yeah look at those eyes they're like I'm evil and when she looks around at the camera we really want you to make sure this is an evil glance and who uses dinner plates outside of a dinner setting evil people that's who you know what I'd love it's actually not evil it's like they beat us like no no we're really good I swear then why are you looking that way why are you shooting it really it's really Prejudice of you at the circus they have the people who balance the dinner plates on the big sticks and these people are dressed like clowns so I think you know you put two and two together so this is the traveling circus and they're looking for a tall person help them out with like you know oh look at The Oddities of the world sort of thing did The Tall Man fall from the skies the prophecies foretold for I have something on the top shelf and it has been an age in a half since I've been able to get it they even do the they flash like a memory or like a flashback of when he fell and all the fire and stuff as if like just in case I forgot just in case no no no that's that's like that's an is this Sauron moment yeah that's like the meteor thing being the eye of Sauron this is Steve's is he Sauron episode um and so like they keep doing those things yeah I think this is the third time I think they've been doing it and it sort of happens there's a few of those across this episode we think oh this guy's we're now supposed to think that he's an evil man um and he's not because the next episode is somebody else's is he sour on turn uh I was trying to think like from the perspective of someone who who's never read any of it or even really seen much of the films like with this mystery thing actually work from that perspective like is there anything even vaguely intriguing about it given that you already know that well there's only really two answers and two people who can fill those answers um I don't know what you guys sort of felt about the uh the actual success of their attempts to Intrigue you very confused yeah I think that there's something that intrigues me like on the still picture you have here mola see the person holding the dinner plate right yeah and then and then look at the person's Hood it's over them and like what is underneath that order do they have like in bad ears I only just noticed as you said it is better wow that is a strange Hood uh it's like a Batman 's not familiar with the hood no no I'm not uh but uh yeah I mean that's that's pretty hilarious it looks like it's built into the thing itself like that would take some work you'd have to build in like a little metal hole maybe to keep it up or hard plastic see the because I don't think that's standing up on its own if it's just cloth then maybe if you fold it up enough and it would good for them I'm gonna opt for that instead of the ears thing that you're going with but then again this is ring some power who knows what's going on yeah it could be anything this is bad because they suck um but yeah with very little context it's just like so we just don't know who the old man is and these these guys are interested in him that's basically all we have and we don't get anything for the rest of this episode or the next one about this why does he have blackened fingers is this like even some crazy smoker that smokes tar or something digging digging through all the dirt looking for looking for goodies and now they could be harvesting like meaty or clay to build new Cutlery with um it's a very it's very rare when you have like meteors and you could make things out of them it's very special you could sell that stuff I mean the meteor Market is is very very yeah it's uh I don't even know what to call it they're looking for meteors all right things out of yeah the dwarves pay extravagant prices for meteor metal oh yes the dark old fingers I remember when the dark hole does to you sometimes they'll do to everybody and doesn't do it to everybody all the time either um so over to Adar because the the theme of this episode is a bit of a like we take a step back to go two steps forward in the next episode okay but we can't go yet the war seemed to have started sort of and then it was like not really no we're okay hang on a sec and it's the same like all around Middle Earth story wise so this is like eight hours like oh man I like the sun gonna be sad when it's when I kill it it's like huh well he also tortures his friend there oh yeah we've all been there well my only Theory as to why he does that is because the harfords were so evil in the previous episode he's like well I'm supposed to be the real evil guy so I'm gonna have to make up because he was really nice to his Orcs in the last episode well the harfords were horrible I've got to have to top this because this is the most evil there's a particular moment regarding that sort of concept that I can't wait to get to that's episode two so see all the decides the episode two of our coverage but yeah the you're right that this this does feel like one of those um look how evil he is he's even if he's the Boss Of Orcs you might have thought for a second there that he's not Super Evil so he burns his own subjects and they do what happens I read that differently I think that I mean it might be in the case of being way too charitable to the writers of the show probably is if you're being charitable to them at all it's way too charitable but um I know I sort of read that as like this is an attempt to portray his sort of he this is an attempt to show you what he's about to sacrifice himself so like obviously he is like progenitor orc guy he still has sort of the pull toward the sun he is much more Elvish than and the Orcs under him are he's almost trying to make them see what it feels like but obviously it hurts them so they're not really going to appreciate but that's his that's the setup for him then saying when the sun disappears look I'm gonna kind of miss it but you will not you won't suffer for long because when the sun is gone you will be fine and put my arms I I have no idea what they're actually trying to say Obviously his intentions are his POV isn't that I'm gonna be evil for the sake of beauty evil it's the I'm I'm suggesting that this scene exists for that purpose to try and give us more of a sense of like look he's burning his own men he's like doing some weird thing about the sun you know it's the same with a lot of like evil leaders and stuff like that it is but I don't think I think this is this is literally it's an excuse for them to sort of foreshadow the plan the dimming of the sun because like the only reason this scene really exists is so he can then portentously warn that the sun will no longer be a factor very very soon the Sun is going to dim and then you will be fine it's like being mean you are kind of just being a jerk D look at that little space Oh it's like wow yo dude stop you know what the sacrifices I make for you buddy why I'm not ever gonna I'm gonna have someone else do this job if you're gonna burn me I don't even I haven't even done anything I've done everything right this is a preemptive punishment I haven't [ __ ] up yet I just can't stand how inconsistent they've been with the Orcs in the sunlight because there's so many shots of them in sunlight and they're fine and then they're burning and then they're not and then they're in overcast and then they won't come out when it's overcast it's like Arc I'm offered I just hate that again I think I mentioned this in the last one the fact that the only thing you need to do to make your Army Of Orcs work in the sunlight is just put them in clothes because that works in this universe so just give them hoods and they will be fine and then they can go around rampaging throughout the daylight and they'll be okay because they're supposed to fear the sunlight they're not supposed to fry in the sunlight so the fear of the sunlight sort of weakens them and it makes them it makes them weaker in a sense they're not supposed to just like literally burn up because if it is just sunburn that they're uniquely vulnerable to well yeah just give them Factor 50 and put them in a hood and they'll be fine Army's Ready Go and Kill Some people in daylight gotta have that one per five that has the giant parasol he's like yeah I got you boys gotta make sure if you stay under it okay it's effective and stylish yeah will it be evil they you're black they keep hinting as well all of this is like run by higher Powers so in the last episode you had lots to talk about the Valar and how you people pray to him and stuff but when it comes to the sun in multiple scenes the sun either just goes away the second when they need it to or just comes out the second that they needed to and that's either the most ridiculous of writing rights coincidence or they are trying to say that it's deliberate by somebody else the god of the sun I think you actually have to say it's deliberate in order for it not to be ridiculous and they haven't done anything to say it's ridiculous I mean um the sun is is technically it's it's a god being stewarded around the world by elrond's dad um up in space but unless yeah unless you're actually gonna say um unless you're actually gonna say or do something later which very clearly indicates that there is a higher power battle going on saying between the Valar and and Sauron then yeah it's just going to be contrived I mean and as someone who's not as familiar with all of it I thought it was absurd that he's just casually announcing on top of everything else we're trying to accept that he's just going to destroy the Sun that sounds like a a doctor evil type of thing um and it's really funny I can only watch it this is it's got that Gru I'm going to steal the Moon I'm going to kill the Sun and I think okay it's the responsibility of the show to contextualize that a little better like it as someone who you know it was not led into this very easily it just sounds so like oh man you're evil aren't you I'm gonna kill the sun you you watch it's like Mr Burns yeah oh Fiddlesticks electrical lights running all day long building building a big sun shield thing is actually more sort of I could believe that more than what they actually do oh yeah because I don't even know what the plan to destroy the sun even is or even if it's destroying it is it blotting it out is it out yeah yeah they just want to spew Ash into the air and that is going to stay forever which isn't exactly how volcanoes work uh and uh block out the sun unless they're trying to say yeah I didn't even realize that it is yeah okay that's why all of this I thought they were activating the volcano because that's where he'll make the one ring and that's why he needs that listen if you if you put the sword in the key and turn it it makes sense really joke about talking about that yet oh my God it doesn't make sense but hey I don't I don't I'm not complaining about trying to get there right so next up let's see the uh because this is loads of setup for the big old payoffs where we're heading toward okay and this was bizarre that's what this is yeah um this this is this thing where bronwyn's the leader now she that's her dialogue she's like I know you don't want to be for your leader it's like so [ __ ] off what are you doing I I like I when was there ever a sense of like these people believing in the girl who makes stuff with flowers I don't even when did that happen bollocks but it's I think it's the last episode it's when they the first episode where we see them in the tower and they have that conversation between her uh her kids and the old man who goes even in this episode and he actually raises the point and says who voted you lead her and she says you did when you chose to follow me to the Tower and if you hadn't done that you'd all be dead bad so but they did at these sort of yeah that no but yeah it'd be like charged now where were you lead or just like what I decided I was leader that's what that is like there was no decision to make a leader it was a decision to be like oh her plan to go to the tower probably is a good idea which is because it's two different things okay okay it implies that there was no leadership structure in place in the village in the first which is ridiculous of course they would be who's the man they have a representative Republic that runs the village that everyone's dirty and grimy and no one you know has to go around clean whenever someone has a bath there's always someone there with a bucket of mud ready before they get out yay thank you so much I'm dirty again oh my goodness I'd have to address because everyone else is highlighting it okay this is the scene that there's a couple memes and morality forever she always is uh yeah there's a couple repeated Extras by the powers of CGI and uh the the the conversation I saw was basically everyone laughing at that and then lots of accounts quote between that and being like that's a that's a tactic used in literally everything even good things so you guys are all stupid so Talk Amongst yourself what do you think of this as a criticism I'll try and point them out where I can I guess it is a floor there's no getting around that like you can yeah it reminds me of one of those things where someone's like [ __ ] you know it's in another thing and it's like what is it what does that mean doesn't it just mean this is a trick of the of filmmaking to try and hope you think there's more people here than there actually is that's what it is I mean your mind can't help when you think about how expensive this show is like you didn't you couldn't get enough extras to just fill out the space the thing that makes this bit more irritating I think I mean I wouldn't even slide it it's like it's not a significant problem but I think the reason you can't say well other shows do the same thing therefore it's the same whenever another show does it is that it's unnecessary in this case all you need to do is pull the camera angle down or have it set lower so you don't see as many people but you get the impression of depth or have fewer people in the crowd because there aren't that many villagers anyway and we don't ever need to see this many villages later on even in the big fight scene we get to there are not many villagers involved in that fight so just cut the number of them a bit but cut the number and lower the camera angle and you've solved your problem it's different from say Peter Jackson's film so you have 10 000 Orcs to CGI but you can't say because they CGI 10 000 Orcs therefore it's fine for them to see gin random beard people in two shots where they don't need to be there they look like the same they do look like the same guy or maybe that's look for the guy in the hood horrific racism coming out there's a guy in a hood that appears like like I see three of him already um I think we're the main this guy um uh when you say Hood I'm trying to uh tell who he's he's wearing a hood he looks like you know he's got a big beard and he's ready right there right you had him before I don't know oh yeah there's loads of pictures where they come and so I think the main criticism is about the budget right I could excuse this if it's you know a smaller budget or as an sg1 or something like this Amazon had an insane budget telling me they couldn't get 100 extras or something for this shot it's bizarre the defense is that this was all done during the sort of the lockdown times and so they oh well we would have done it but we just can't but the thing like as it's been said it's the camera shot they had ones that decided to film it and sort of like Ultra wide res um ratio as well because it's definitely not 69. um and there's so many different they don't even bother to change the hats on the people they literally just picked it's it's not just they've copied them they've copied them the most low effort way possible there's a triangle of people that's just repeated all over the place maybe in a slightly different way yeah those are the work Brothers I think that cracks the criticism perfectly if you'd even switched the nature of the triangle they form that would have been something take a hat off have them put like you know just a bit more mud on one of their faces to try and make it look a little slightly different but no you're right there's more mud whoa there's a room they managed to just sort of uh this it seems like it's just copy and paste um which is lazy uh compared to what you can do even in restriction times another thing if somebody had Cannon is that this Village is just full of twins and triplets and that's just the nature of this particular Village lots and lots of essentially just copies of people because inbred people villagers have very very small Gene pools yeah they go I can believe it I mean half the village does look the same from this shot canonically in Universe in Universe they look the same yeah this was what they did and if if one of your three plots is essentially that I guess three is four plots one of your big plots is a you know concerning a village of dirty peasants you probably have some extras you know is that is that humor right in the front as well our Homer from from the last stream we did wait a second why can't they take all the people from Newman I think you're right and dress them up as peasants no one would notice I don't yeah this is the thing there are so many solutions to this that I don't understand because even covert restrictions doesn't exactly answer this in terms of like well yeah you don't have to record them all together if you're pasting them you can record different people at different times right I don't know surely you you yeah you've got people I mean they could have recorded the same people just dress them in different clothes give them different headset and put them in different positions and then composite the shot together as we mentioned they didn't even do that they actually did that I think there's a there's a British TV show called countdown um which is what old people and students watch but they would record multiple episodes on the same day and they would have the same audience members in they would just have this box full of different colored jumpers and then in between episode recordings they'd send them away to change the color of their jumper and then have them sit back in different places and then no one would notice the difference um yeah and that's an option just change the color as possible there Rags just to the top right of her head but they yeah yeah yeah that's right that is he's the he's the real here I'm always the same favorite character best developed so far uh you wouldn't understand if you haven't seen our coverage previously but he's quite a quite an in-depth meaningful character I would say yeah fringy pointed out that he looks staggeringly like Homer to the point of potential copyright infringement and we all agreed with his astute assessment and as a result we he's sort of become our our crowd favorite so to speak yeah his Adventure uh in these next two episodes uh I was told about it ahead of time like oh Homer's home is really going to go on quite a journey and I was like oh well that's that's at least we got that but we will judge it how good it is anyway yeah she's leader now shut up um and she says we gotta fight I just like stand and find this watch that just you may have like a just a normal person thought of like well well you leave right you can leave and not die probably leave it's an Army Of Orcs right yeah you're not locked in you have no necessarily like there's no you can just go you guys are all really not prepared for war let's put it that way and uh you know these Orcs this Army they've already [ __ ] up all your Elf like you know Watchtower people so yeah I don't know I just I'd like to entertain that thought and then someone speaks up it's waldrig the stinky old man and you're like oh maybe which one well you know you know the the stinkiest oldest one there you go oh uh that narrows down a little bit I got him on screen who's wearing the he was wearing an apron in the First episodes and looked like it was wearing nothing else and he just said oh yeah that's right he does yeah he was the among the dirtiest and smelliest of the peasants and so he's like I suggest a second option and there I am like oh here we go let's leave and then he says let's swear fealty to the Orcs what two options stay in the tower and fight them or swear allegiance to them there's one you could do that's it I guess they don't even use those options themselves no they do actually leave so okay maybe the people would have stayed if she told actually this is a bit of Plum this is the thing you need you need more you need more like Alphas in this this crowds just one person to just be like you're both insane nobody listen to these people [ __ ] them yeah blue dress ladies in charge I didn't vote for you because she's the only one that has any colors she gets to be in charge that's how it works everyone else is dark gray the brighter your clothes the more respect and power God bestowed upon her blue oh it's a leader colored all over the towns folk exactly so the Orcs are with a massive disadvantage if they wanted to run away just run away while the sun's out because the Orcs can't follow you while the sun's out and also being human you know you can just stay up all night and run during the night as well if you want to you can make double the distance the orc scan and they're not particularly quick it shows that the show sometimes forgets that the Orcs can't go into daylight so maybe they were anticipating the show forgetting that the Orcs might this time go into the daylight I don't know but yeah just do anything except maybe hiding in the tower or just doing something at this point because even when they do enact their weird little plan half of them just stand around watching so they're not exactly the most proactive group of villagers in the world now another one to seem to live remember they all left their Village without taking food what is wrong around people I mean can you blame him for not wanting to live in this world yeah each one of them wants to die but they don't think anyone else thinks that and they think they're the only one so I just realized something and I might be skipping to the chronology but I was thinking about the tower because we'll talk about why don't they just leave their Tower and then I was thinking about adar's plan what does he really want he doesn't necessarily want to kill the people he just wants to get the sword key thingy and then I was like and so why does he want the sword key to put it in the key slot but the thing is hang on the show actually revealed that ADA didn't know what to do with the key he saw the mural when he went to the tower for the first the show is basically implied he didn't know what to do with the key because he found out when he went to the Tower and so it's after the key but he doesn't know what to do with it at this point I still don't get how when they're when they reveal the thing on the wall why they don't think oh I wonder what this is and then look down at the ground and see the big yeah no no no no one would do that that would be ridiculous it's like no that's just that's just the whole we don't we don't talk about it it's just there actually showed the hull in which case that's even more contrived I don't think I don't know because the the hole with the tower is is next to it I thought I didn't think it was inside it and also if it was inside it wouldn't the elves have noticed that there was any Sinister yeah that's a good point bringing it back chronologically though they're leaving at this point in the show um they're not that amazing no they're pretty [ __ ] but old man in in this scene he already knows that the sword's important and he already knows where the sword is and who has the sword yes and rather than get the sword and steal it and go away with it and take it to Adar which would be a logical thing to do because you'd get in his good favor he just sort of randomly falls out to Theo and says come with me and then Theo just sits there like a [ __ ] because that's basically what he is and doesn't do anything but yeah prioritize yeah why did you not prioritize bringing that sword with you you like basically had it yeah and and I thought it was funny because he's like all right everybody let's go and join the Orcs woohoo and this guy the knife is guys like yeah yeah it's like what the [ __ ] what's wrong with you you were terrified of them seconds ago but you're like oh no yeah this is totally gonna work 100 waldrick is correct any enemy of the knife ears is a friend of mine that's probably yeah but he's like a card deal come on follow me come on and then he doesn't and he just gives up on it and it's like man dull well I wouldn't want to cause a social you know faux pas here by I just I sort of thought he'd put more effort in you know yeah at this point in the story is the equivalent of the one ring so this is like a math School looking at Fredo and saying come over here my child is saying no I have cookies and then the NASCAR's saying okay fair enough it is the very thing that they've been digging up the landscape for however many hundreds of years looking for and uh yeah we'll just we'll just leave it there and it has the same it has a similar effect on the wielder as the wandering as well it makes them feel powerful it makes them desire it and crave it so he should have always been angry at the kid for stealing it off him in the first place if anything should be going mental at it yeah not only did he seem chill with the fact that he had stolen it he like explains vaguely that yeah we're gonna be joining Sauron but the kid is clearly like what the [ __ ] are you talking about old Ben and he's just fine with it like oh yeah this kid's probably creeped out has no idea what I'm talking about but whatever it's fine the plan's working I guess question follow me just yeah like waldrick pocketing that stupid Hilt would have made way more sense this whole time but they can't have that happen because we need some other things to happen first all right everybody it's gonna be great science stuff I'm so far so good and they finally explained why they didn't take food with them to the uh to the Watchtower from The Villages because when they're told to do a thing they do it instantly there's a they don't collect their food they just leave uh they're gonna go Johnny walks it's like oh you're already leaving you do it but you need to like say yeah the Orcs will feed us I I see a guy holding a sack a guy picked up a second we got a carpet for there I think there were blankets it's wonderful they're you're right though there is a very decorating small sack there could be several potatoes I don't know yeah I guess if you can't go out in the sun you would really appreciate good interior decoration spend a lot of time indoors wouldn't that have made a lot more sense if Ada's message was join us we have provisions and stuff we're not going to kill you we're just trying to find a new land uh you know something like that then I could better believe these people but at this point I just find this absurd that half the Townsville like yes let's join the Orcs that's a good idea this requires no debate or deliberation or thought whatsoever this is clearly The Right Move I think not very well written that's my opinion I know I'm gonna get roasted for that here we go you should Reserve judgment until the end sometimes you gotta get some rough setups to get those big amazing character moments an incredible plot payoffs this is true we already we're only five hours in it's not really enough plan to expand I mean yeah this could this this could totally be setting up a great fight scene right guys oh so why don't you say that when when we watch this uh Rags I think you said this and I totally agree whenever like a scene ends and it cuts to this is like an obvious like oh we're at newmanor again it's such a like but then it's like well no there is no place in Middle Earth right now where I go oh it's all just like we're here again it's great great [ __ ] whoever it is it doesn't matter other people it's like it's like what are we doing over here that vine yeah we find out that uh a steel door is mad because he's like I want to be on the cool people part of this this uh thing but like we were almost on the shot of the ships because you can count them and they have at least eight ships they're preparing for war and then later on they only have four it's like oh nothing to the other three I think the last one in the previous episode was we've got five ships and 500 men which is I mean you might think not the biggest army to send to guard your queen as you go and invade a brand new continent against liberate liberate even yes absolutely very important terminology here not colonizing it okay no although they actually should be but well farazone has clearly uh he's looking to have some benefits of that like I will have trade Partners when this is done like I guess so this really shows the incompetence of just the production because clearly the writers they thought oh four ships and you know ignoring the fact that this is Newman or they should have a massive Army but yeah five ships but then they're people who are editing the shot or doing the visual effects like this doesn't look good enough we need to put more ships in to make it look more impressive and not paying attention to what was written in the script to say they only had five and they'd throw in like eight now those were just ships that I mean this is a hardware this is just where the ships live they're just there they're like extras but ships yeah think of them as ships and the ship's kids who don't actually go off to war they just play in the shipyard they run around doing ship things but you're right if we go by the visual these like sales like so that's one two three four five but there and then success if it plays out yeah it's great if it plays out you even see more there's like more to the left um and stuff and this is from the perspective of a ship and so there's a ship that's right in front of us so it doesn't seem like the Count's right unless that explosion took out a lot more than we thought well they say two ships it took out two ships oh Rags two could mean anything in numeral yeah they even say they're lucky it didn't take up more yeah we're lucky it didn't take up more this should raise some hazards about ship design for them in general like why would we believe that this is every ship numeral has in just this shot you know surely they have more five yeah but it's only worth it to send five ships that's how much it's worth also they have other cities as well they should have like a fleet of at least a hundred if not more it's that sounds excessive but that's the thing because that's not been set up so that you have to assume that new middle has more cities and it should have more cities at this point in its timeline but then in this point in this timeline it should have cities in Middle Earth already from which to get I want to remind you colonized I wouldn't consider this excessive at all to have 100 ships just showing how huge numeral was when one of the wider shots we had at first like this this is far this is a tiny part of numenor in total from what we saw of the the huge landscape when we first got here like when they had the birds I shot almost of all the islands so yeah if you've got that much space and then presumably as many cities to reflect that and uh as many docks and stuff it's just like yeah there should be a lot more ships and this is a people who were born of War right like that's that's they won a war with the elves and that's what created them so surely they would have they've got so many disciplines that relate to war that you'd think hey yeah they are supposed to be the greatest warriors in the world at this point um if we get to see how good they are fighting yeah the richest most experienced they're all very long-lived so most of them would have lived to see or lots of them would have lived to see the war that gave them the island in the first place um and they're just portrayed and this is just like yeah their entire fighting force is just we be teenagers and then a sealed was kind of the worst of the bunch because he's you know he's not allowed to go on the mission despite the fact he volunteered in the previous episode because he got distracted because he really wants to go to West Newman or to find where his family were but in this episode it's now I don't care about that anymore I want to go on this Expedition and [ __ ] you for not letting me go with you and I there must have been some development in between those two positions but there isn't any of it it makes no sense from character motive point of view well the worst thing about this chart as well is you actually see the size of the horses in relation to the boat yes the stable cannot physically fit in because I'm not even sure you could fit two horses lengthways across the sides of the boat numenor as we learn is the home of the horse Lords so they have extra large horses that's why they have to move them with cranes not just the horse laws right this is the time lord Technologies in here they are Tardis ships they are bigger on the inside and all the horses can it's more like sweetheart teleport later on they teleport them in because they can't even fit through the doorways it's like this is crazy technology new Midori this is great and people were saying maybe there's just multiple levels beneath the water and that's how the boat was like no because they go up River so they're like shallow bottom boats as well I was thinking that the that they want us to believe these are like double decker buses underneath them or something of space But like I don't think so though and if it's a Deep River you could have I mean I imagine there's quite a lot below the water line but not enough even when you see the inside of it later when they go and do the whole sabotage thing um it's still the even then the space looks too big to be contained and I I've spent quite a lot of time on boats over the last few years there's quite a lot there's more than you'd think below the water line but there's not enough on these ships especially if they are going up anywhere like high up a river or even in a harbor which tend to be sort of shallow water anyway you couldn't fit horses on there and you couldn't fit the people and the store Provisions as well if you're taking all three if you pack them in right you know you gotta you just gotta arrange them like um like like horses yeah like they're like Tetris blocks where they're a little bit longer than they are wide so you have to just sort of fit them in you know pack them in that's the thing if you turn them at right angles to each other and then you can like it I need to belly but then right angles and then the legs sort of go around themselves and then they actually become much more condensed yeah you lay them on your their side and then you just sort of stack them on top of each other like apparently the horses find this uncomfortable that's not relevant to Tetris it'll make them all the more happy to run at full speed when we get up to the other side of the ocean yeah like plastic garden chairs you know when you stick them over each other and the legs sort of drop down the sides I'm sure there's ways new minorian horses are special so exactly like a flat pack option so we're doing 500 soldiers how many horses are going uh as many as the soldiers they're all right numenorian or numerian cavalry they're very talented because they can ride two horses at once so really you have 500 soldiers that's a thousand horses that's how they get that's how they get to Middle Earth so fast that's how they get to the Southlands this horse is under the boats powering the the boats they run on the little horse yeah how many knots can this baby get up to slaps hell yeah so yeah it's presumably a hundred horses in each of the five ships and that's before a tragedy occurs that means that more have to God is so impossibly upset they did give a [ __ ] they actually measure their sailing power and horsepower they're the only nation and the Earth to do it would make sense makes sense one horse is equivalent to oh I guess one horsepower yes it's been working out um mad because he's not allowed to go into the the fighting portion of the people I guess or is it that he's not even allowed at this point right he's not allowed do you understand do you understand there's an incredible joke that could be made here do it where we've been talking about horsepower they are a sea people here's the thing it's only worth explaining because it involves knowing so you know um the Latin word for C is mare m-a-r-a which is Mayor which is what a female horse is and we talk about horse and this is seafaring people so there's like it's really it's really something it's something to consider honestly that's where we get like marine and Mariner from but it's just something to consider it's not really a pun it's just it's something to think about oh yeah I'm saying you haven't got anything yet you'll have a pun eventually working on it I mean maybe I'll have a pun you have a notepad where you write down some of your pun ideas like and start to sort of Workshop them and I probably should whenever something comes to mind I can just write it down for later put a little bullet point it was like needs work I think that's uh I think that that's probably the because I mean many of the puns are pretty strong if they're right off the bat but think about how great they could be with tweaks and refinements if you breaking where they passed you and you at the same time two punners exactly full speed two plumbers working together that's right I was in the joke Army it's called two punners two it's just called two no wow wants a particular like area of fine and Millennials like well but why why would why should you I think he even appeals the fact that he's his dad at one point which is really [ __ ] up in terms of how War ranks should work nobody likes nepotism piece of [ __ ] and the thing actually this is one of this small small thing I liked when a land deal is like uh you basically like shaked all of your duties and you're an [ __ ] while all the other men here have been like working their whole lives to actually do their jobs so [ __ ] you and I was like hey it's true instead of actually quitting which is what he wanted to do he purposely sabotaged his own work and got other people fired in the process this guy's an incompetent idiot why would you want him on the board his entire story his entire story up to this point doesn't make sense because he was part of the military he was a sailor so he could have been on the ships anyway he's a sailor that's riding right to get kicked out yeah he's like I didn't want to do that because I want to go to this land over there in the west or wherever where I'm like drawn to it and then the moment this happens he's like yeah I don't care about that anymore I want my original job back it's just yeah make up your mind I'm sorry but no you [ __ ] up like on purpose and you even [ __ ] up your friends careers too which you haven't really apologized for yeah like that that was an unprecedented move by the captain to do that but the unprecedented nonsense move by the captain that for some reason nobody has stopped everyone is accepted that's just the case and I mean you rise the point like oh yeah that he hasn't even apologized to his friends I think it's the same next right where he goes to talk to them the first of many scenes were a character's like I'm sorry but now do something for me they immediately ask for the thing that they want like oh yeah I'm sorry but do me a favor it's like oh so are you really sorry or do you just want something from me oh yeah so you're just a bad person who's really selfish well it's just we see it later with galadra when she's like oh I'm sorry I used you now help me it's like okay I've used you and manipulated you but here let me use you and manipulate you exactly yeah that seems great that's a great one yeah they're really good at characterizing her in one particular way that I don't even know they're aware of they do without run too yeah like with him as well it keeps happening so this uh these two episodes were really piling on the the conclusions we already had about the dialogue like that I think that's one of the biggest takeaways I've had from this whole season the dialogue writing is hideous just telling his [ __ ] yep we we ended up pausing a bunch when we were watching these episodes yesterday um because there was just you have to you have to figure out the dialogue but not in the sense of oh it's so multi-layered in their subtext here and it's very meaningful no no it's just like what what the [ __ ] are you saying why do you mean drinking sea water what do you mean it's uh it's so Laden with these bizarre like analogies and parables and and and I mean generally the characters don't even feel like they're talking to one another like they're talking past each other or they're talking at each other the conversations don't flow naturally because they're not real people or at the very least like they're not even trying to come across as believable people it's almost like it's like amateur Dramatics in that way and it's like when you see a Shakespeare play properly done at the globe then it all feels exactly as it should and you're really you'll draw into it but you see the same play put on by amateur like amtran performers in a local Village Theater and they're all they're all seem to be they all seem to be very very aware that the lines they're speaking are Grand and what they want to convey is the grandiose nature offs headlines but they do as you say end up speaking past each other because what they're really focusing on is just delivering the line and not actually what the line is supposed to mean how it's supposed to be conveyed what it's supposed to convey either um and it just gives it this this really weird sort of self uh I don't even know how you describe it it's very self-aware when they're doing it um it it comes across as dialogue that you write off of a script not a thought that you had and then conveyed to somebody it's it's like it's oh yeah absolutely it's like this is dialogue this isn't two characters having a conversation this is dialogue in a script for a television show one of the things Anthony Hopkins has said famously on many interviews is that's how he's always done his approach with his movies is that he reads the script reads the script reads the script until he's memorized the entire thing and it's his like it's it's things he's saying as opposed to things he's reading and saying like Office script it's going to be owning it all as though he's the character saying it and it's just like that's probably not a coincidence considering he's one of the greatest actors I've ever lived so you should probably yield some good results look into yeah you know how like uh I'm not trying to So like um I think it's often a common thing right where like when when people perform on on a stage that they're meant to sort of sort of tilt angle themselves towards the audience like that you never want to have like an act of like pointing away from the audience or generally they're meant to be facing towards the audience it's kind of like that effect here but it doesn't work where it's like every single time they're talking it's like they're very aware that there's an audience like off to the side that they're trying to communicate everything to yeah in this box is to check like we've got to have our lofty dialogue that means a lot that people can quote I think that's part of the directing though because the problems with the way one person delivers it are the same across the entire cast everyone talks like this all the time yeah and so that's not just one person delivering a line when it when it's widespread you're like okay you think that sounds because there's normally um politicians are told to speak like that because it makes people easier to understand and everything so they're not only sort of underestimating Their audience and thinking no this is so difficult to understand we're going to say it slowly so you appreciate it but they someone said that was dramatic that's impressive that will leave an impact on you and I I just don't it's too widespread to think the actors did that on their own I mean it's it's got to be Direction it's yeah if everybody's doing it it's got to be Direction I don't really know how you deliver a lot of the lines very well like when you say seawater's not gonna I don't know fix you or like they repeat it they uh they do that a lot with all of this stuff they repeat this [ __ ] tallest milkweed but I mean I think that I think we actually might have mentioned this in the last one but actually I'd say that's more writing than directing in that case I mean if you can't conceive of a way in which a line would be conveyed properly um yeah and as well and also if the particular type of line you're referencing is the sort of metaphor or the simile which every other character from every other background in the show is conveying um and there's no difference between them there's no difference in speech pattern or conveyance then I'd say that that's just that's a problem with the writers who have put those same lines in the mouths of disparate peoples and not just there's only so much you can do as a director if you're given a line like that which sounds like it should be coming from the mouth of an elf but is in fact in this scene coming from the mouth of a Hobbit there's a only so much as a director you can do to make that seem natural I don't think you can make some of these seem natural no yeah probably not and I mean like you said a lot of the characters sound very similar you've only got a handful of characters who I feel generally say things that are reflective of them as an individual rather than something that could just be taken and given to any other character and you wouldn't even notice like you'd never feel like it was out of place that somebody said anything because every everything everybody says feels out of place all the time and uh one of the things I was gonna ask about this scene as well it started to make me think like if we consider uh a sealdah's journey right up until we see in the end of episode six even all of this is like all the complications he faces are all they all start with him making that [ __ ] decision on the boat where if he hadn't made that retired decision on the boat like even at the time surely he would have been like oh it's a couple days till I get my like let's call it official license to do see things I can still not do them right I'm assuming it's not like a locked in Via contract to do that you can abandon that job or whatever but you'd still have the qualification so like abandoning it right at the end just seems like a really dumb move like this what do you gain kind of where I'm at he says himself that he can take a gap here he says to his father I can just Delight delay it for a year and it's only his father that says no I won't let you do that but because there was no power there he couldn't just seems like the kind of character that would allow his son to make that choice but secondly you shouldn't even be allowed to just his son's a [ __ ] adult surely you don't get I don't think he even said you can't do it I think he just said it's a stupid thing to do well that's another good point probably but hey it's better than [ __ ] sabotaging yourself this is the thing what he did it could have gotten him like put in jail at worst case like he's such a dumbass I'm still slightly complicated about how they did that though given that they showed him do the same thing by accident in a couple of scenes prior with no comeuppance and then they see him do it and it's deemed to be deliberate the second time but he's never been seen doing it before therefore he must be off the team even though he did it 10 minutes ago uh and no one cared that was that was kind of astonishing but I was trying to think about this one and sort of where they're going to take his character because he's got to be in it of course with like the entirety of the Run of this show and he I assume they're going to attempt to tie him into the seal who we see at the beginning of um of The Fellowship of the Ring and so maybe what they're going for here is this sort of this sense of selfish impulsiveness this is supposed to sort of this is like the German form of the floor that leads him to take the ring even though actually the ring corrupts him and would have done whatever his flaws but I was sort of thinking about that and is it really even framed that way because he's not really it's not selfishness here is in like self-motivated selfishness it's kind of it's almost like wistful romantic selfishness that he conveys I mean like looks starry-eyed over at West Newman or in decided he wants to go over there for reasons and then the next Grand thing is he wants to go off to Middle Earth um but that's not sort of that's not bitter sort of cold calculated selfishness that's just that's very sort of teenage wistful selfishness now I kind of I'm wondering whether they are going to try and build that toward the later depiction and if they are going to try whether they have the talent and the answer to that question is no but I'm not sure about the preceding one so next up we have oh yeah that just sort of ends awkwardly um farazon may be the only one who can stop the the war from happening and so uh isildor's daughter is like hey farazon's son tell him not to he says also why she she was she was introduced five minutes ago why did she where did this anti-war sentiments come from he doesn't like War all right we don't even know why the waste the way she describes it um in the after thing is she saw her brother go off to war and that she didn't want him to die and leave her so that's why she doesn't want him to go does she care about it yeah okay so this is the thing I've got criticisms everywhere but like it's just does she care about the the current narrative which is that there's many people are about to die if they don't go and save them no only a family specifically this would be has just been pointed out in terms of just noticing motivations like [ __ ] doesn't she hasn't she earned that scene where she can explain her position on this but no it's just like okay does this guy have any reason to oppose a war apart from trying to get into this girl's pants like it's funny you say that because some of the I didn't like about this and a lot of people making fun of the line alone right which is when I speak his ears close up and then she says speak louder what does she do before saying that though she grabs his hands and I was like are you are you are you doing like a like do it for me buddy all right yeah I know like in which case I'm just like what does he think what is his position sorry there is something weird happening between these two even off screen like display your video where you have their interview that guy was trying his very best to not look down he's just like can you blame him can you put the contact keep eye contact because she was wearing a very interesting dress I I had to comment on that dress that just a time stamp followed by pause it that was it yeah so this chart should be shown in every film class though exactly all of them should be every second of this show should be to teach people how to do things wrong and okay there's some nice things but I need yeah yeah uh so we were complaining we don't exactly know what her position is what the hell is his position again I only know it because the actors have said so ah so like great they've both said that essentially both of them are using each other and he's getting um like he approached her not accidentally it's part of the family's plan because of what her family is doing and that the father has been put next to Galadriel and so because farizon is kind of got his like little tendrils all over the island he wants to get someone close to that family so he can manipulate them in the future I said in the show but it also doesn't make sense because the next thing we'll see from him is going deliberately against what farazone wants as his plan in order to further the anti-war aims not like others his prospective bin so I don't understand any of this no well I don't I need to give what's the personal reason for the sun like what what is it what is his character who is this guy well the problem is we haven't had a scene with him that's not just even her developing minute chemistry in order to justify them being in a relationship at some point yeah like we haven't heard them actually yeah other scenes together are weird awkward flirting kind of and they don't have a scene where they talk to each other and have their perspectives and they chat about oh have you heard about this elf yeah they're sending five ships oh my gosh that's so many where are they gonna put all the horses I don't know we could pack those things like [ __ ] sardines but I just and then they talk about that for a while or something there's got to be I don't know who these people are I've got all I've got six hours of content and I barely know who anyone is I thought of another way they could do it a giant net behind the ships and you throw all the horses into it and just drag them across the sea you hope they can they can breathe underwater are you giving them little snorkelers they'll be fine special ones I'll just strap them to the sides of the boat as armor awesome yeah um so oh yeah this so Hull Brad He's Got His forging crest Smith though look yeah he's a Smith now which I'm sure everyone else in the guild is thrilled with how did it like how much time has passed that's the first thing I was gonna try and grab do we have any it could be it could be that it could be the third age by now we don't we don't bother him now because this is the thing about I just don't Vibe with the timeline at all so am I supposed to believe that when we followed the harfords for that incredible journey is that all of the world moving forward in time or is that just them as in like when we go to someone else have we now moved forward two weeks is that what's happened with with uh numenor does anyone have a line for that it can't be because I'm again skipping forwards but they specifically say two days to get to that town and only one day crap passes in the town so they have to be different timelines right they have to if they want it to make sense God it's so confusing um but like so basically I I would hope a decent amount of time has passed to account for all of the things including but not limited to he had to actually complete the presumably the course for getting this crashed and owning it it's revealed later that he was given it because he shopped not Galadriel to the queen which is how the queen knew that glad you was going to visit her dad that's that's what they tell me so that's cool so the queen said all right so all of these guys that you assaulted and injured and everything and then stole from them well I'll make you a part of their group I don't understand yeah sorry so yeah so we got the crest for it unrelated to forging thing that he did it was in them it was in the prison sequence when not Galadriel somehow manages to get four guards into the cell behind her and then you see I think I think you see farazon Falls against not saurons or definitely sauron's prison door and then they have a little whispered conversation when he tells her that he knows where she's going and so in between episodes that's what justifies the giving of here to him of uh The Guild Crest glad you brings it up when she confronts him like when they're talking with the Queen the queen leaves she says you know oh that's what I was wondering how the queen way laid me in her bed Chambers um implying that I was it was Sauron I mean that worked out incredibly well for Galadriel in in fact it worked out better that way than it would have otherwise because the question yes yeah well she would have known anyway she got thrown into the prison for sale for demanding to see the father so the moment she breaks out of prison you think yeah that's true um but not to mention like I'm just still a little bit baffled like ah you've completed almost political favor for me or a bit of security cool and he's like I want to Crest for Fortune he's like oh you have to go complete the course for it I don't I can't just give that to you it's [ __ ] dangerous to just had there's a reason why those crests you don't mean like it's not like um it's not the same kind of favor I would expect this is very strange just I get to see her just being like well can you forge then go earn it I can't imagine it would have taken that long especially I mean that might be what this is because he's like he makes a sword then shows it to oh he's already got it though who owns the forge like yeah but maybe this allows them to train in the first place because they did say you're not allowed to forge at all yeah maybe if I'm being really good faith maybe I'll just say that she fast tracked him he still did the course or whatever something like that nice all right she'll be nice you would imagine that this sort of thing would take years and years maybe I have no clue because they didn't tell us anything and he decided to [ __ ] try and like steal it before trying to earn it even though we intended to stay here for the rest of his life at one point he's not he's not a bright lad wait which one which character is not bright sorry which one oh my God you're right I should have been more specific I mean the whole whole brand yeah it's not right but he's either not bright or he's the brightest person in the world and he's just playing dumb all of this will lead to his victory okay so man I'm just annoyed at how quickly he made that sword it went from him quenching it to now it's fully polished it's got Inland gold and everything it took weeks yeah this took years it's taken the decades it took decades centuries Millennium millennia it's a big jump this guy's still alive because he's a hearty numenorian all of them are asked real life it took the rest of the world is just at this point many many D's so uh yeah as Rags highlight I just want to make sure we've mentioned again that um you'd think that there will be huge pushback from not only the guild members but also just I don't know Guild leaders to be like he [ __ ] broke that guy's arm uh he came here we took care of him he assaulted people stole from him is in cahoots with that elf we don't know what else here they steal our jobs so we don't want anything to do with us yeah they steal our jobs stealing someone's job at this point yeah the dude with a broken arm is not forging right now he is healing that thing he's [ __ ] furious that's gonna ruin his career to an extent like surely it would right my broken arm would [ __ ] your ability to forge for a decent amount of time absolutely like I've only got one I gotta use the little Hammer now this sucks exactly I got a jerk off well bullsman no they designed something for that Rags the forge The Smiths of numenor this oh yeah how wonderful and uh uh uh yeah you've got visitors and then they take him to visit somebody I don't know someone's here to visit you but we're taking you to visit them it's like all right this reminds me I will never stop mentioning it it's one of the best moments in [ __ ] TV show history when beta takes all that effort to turn up to Obi-Wan to say you've come to destroy me instantly gets off this shuttle tries The Gaslight Kenobi that's what we call like an instant classic line it's just like thank you thank you you turned you against me so uh yeah Holborn is taken to the queen and Galadriel for talking about like plans and stuff and um I guess he they asked him hey where are the Orcs going and he says uh toward the Watchtower of austereth and it's like how does he have any clue it could be anything right and and even then that information would be months old it's like oh okay so the tower is destroyed then if they're not like you know yeah you're right actually he should assume they've done that already yep yeah so unless they knew something about that Tower specifically like why they he knows exactly the timeline because well then again yeah if he's Sauron he would know the timeline exactly but then again I would have thought that it would be subject to pretty significant change when he's not there for that long you know anything could happen right isn't it determined by how long it takes to dig the trench and that's determined by how many people they capture and keep alive so and also if you if the only way he could know the timeline is by being Saron the one thing he wouldn't do is reveal to everybody else that he knows the timeline that's actually true this is the part that I don't understand I feel like this show is going to absolutely collapse if they really do reveal this guy with Sauron the whole time as opposed to Sauron possesses him at the end or something I don't know what what they're honestly doing I feel is that Saron at this point in time is legitimately on potential Redemption Arc he's actually wanting to put away all the evil is done and he's not actually up to date with the plan of Adar or anything um which is stupid beyond belief but that's what I think they're doing I'll be curious about that change your character then I think he's he's doing he's doing a sheep Palpatine and Galadriel is his Anakin so he is already evil and he's trying to turn her over to his side see I think if you're right I'm saying there's gonna be a lot of questionable decisions throughout this whole season if that's true yeah but that scene with him where he says yeah so I never wanted to go back here at all that crap and the scene in this episode but then he says I do and that's what happens for this episode uh yeah well look yeah they contradict everything sir only after she came and manipulated him into it he's he's going back for her but his own personal wishes to say that and he talks about I've only wanted to stay here to find peace I just don't want to go back you're luring me back into a life that I wanted to leave behind so everything he's saying is I don't want to do this and she keeps coming back and basically emotionally blackmailing him into going against his own will so that's one of the problems with this the dialogue in this show there is no there's never any ounce of pragmatism from anyone it's all just oh the signs oh I had a vision or oh your emotions and your feelings and oh because I can't stop and I did shut up stop does anyone do something intelligent instead of let's give ourselves up to the Orcs that's a good idea no I already just do it and it's like what the [ __ ] are you doing thing uh seriously we'll get there in that seat but when gladriel says her reason for keeping fighting is because she just can't stop it I can't stop are you kidding me like this that doesn't change anything for me like all of your all these appeals to emotion and uh it's it's like it's it's no you have to give me a reason this is a big decision for me and even though in the end I I [ __ ] I don't know I guess I want to be king for like now I guess because of these appeals I don't see the connection between I guess thoughts don't have any lines between them have been connected back in the day when people were being overly emotional not seeing reason the go-to thing to do was just give them a good slap and just like wake up yeah call yourself together woman you're like oh [ __ ] oh so it's always a woman let go of you but actually the film hail Caesar as like a guide to that but he does it too like he doesn't do a woman at the beginning but then there's another guy who's being unreasonable he just slaps the guides it's like that scene from airplane where it's just a line of people ready to slap them yeah now uh we need to bring that practice back for the characters in this show there are so many people need a good logic slap everyone just I just you need someone who has this basic intelligence who understands cause and effect he just needs to grab him by the the shirt and just slap them no damn it reasons think use your brain use your brain so on the topic of really shitty dialogue this is something I'm uh We've pointed out too many times myself Rags afraid to not feel like this is this is becoming a very real thing you know like really shitty choreography can be an indication that the writing may be bad too or really shitty I'm aware you might be like as if they didn't care about that maybe they didn't not necessarily true but it can be sometimes but this this thing this this is a brow this is thing that's like not necessarily connected at all to whether or not something is Well written in in terms of how dialogue goes and it's just been really interesting to notice feels to me the shows that land on the good side versus the bad side when it comes to dialogue will have characters just noticing each other on what they're saying versus not noticing each other at all what they're saying no yeah in this show they've done it plenty of times already but this scene has a really [ __ ] big example where uh the queen is like so you big man over here you're gonna be leading all of your men your humans into a big old Fun Kingdom you're gonna be king right and he goes uh hmm you know wait what what have you been in your children she's like wait a minute you did just let me in the guild yesterday yeah and so she's like wait a minute are you like are you like a bit fleemy right now and then glad you're like oh uh my companion is totally fine actually he just uh he's he's fine the queen Region's like well okay I hope you are ready he's just a little nervous yeah yeah and uh that's not how humans work just at all yeah I was saying it right if we were in a cold right now and uh little Batoon is like yeah Frankie hates Mario and Sonic okay all right now we are in a car it shouldn't be too hard for you to imagine then Rex keep up Jesus so little is like Mario and Sonic fringy hates it absolutely [ __ ] outright hates it and I'm just like that doesn't match at all with anything if you actually hate it and then you go uh uh little she's like no he does and then I go oh okay then okay well that settles that look at the nobody talks this way ever nobody I don't know why shows keep doing this it's like to to be like oh look at that conflict that we can't yet resolve and it's like no it would be resolved right now this is incredibly important this is a if you're gonna be rescuing sending hundreds of men across the ocean to a foreign that's like a big element to encourage everybody that this is a really important move and stuff um the simplest way to like in the case of the queen it's like okay so do you believe her or do you not and you don't care because it's one of those two like and and should be retiring either one because she'll be [ __ ] to believe collateral here when it's so obvious that Albert doesn't want to do it it's um it's it's disastrous either way either she's an idiot or she actually doesn't care about this which is completely contrary to everything that's been established about her up to this point this conversation is not over but like they felt like it was over that want to deal with it anymore they had the drama that they wanted to relegate to the lighter half of the episode so like the conversation just ends before it even began and also just think about what glad you're doing here she is taking away this guy's Freedom completely like you're he's gonna do what I said no matter what she's freaking cow I hate her so much oh do you think the old Queen region would be doubly skeptical and doubly on the ball if you can be doubly on the ball because uh these people these are the people that she's just let out of prison yesterday uh she she is she's hinging her entire plan on people that she had imprisoned who broke out of prison and then did exact exactly the thing they were imprisoned to do there's another there's more evidence yet now that you could you can't trust what they're doing what they're saying because they're clearly being Shifty and there's something going on would you as has been said would you as the queen say ah [ __ ] I'm just going to accept that that's all good surely that would make you exceptionally doubtful if you weren't already which you should have been in the Queen's defense the symbol did vaguely look like Mountains from somewhere so there we are definitely got tips and scales quite a bit it's it's a little bit lame because I mean I don't really expect much from this show but in a better show you got three characters here who all have different objectives that they want to achieve uh and there's some unresolved issue this is like a really good opportunity for like an interesting scene with a bunch of dialogue lighting with subtext of like these three people kind of trying to like essentially all of them trying to push for whatever goal they have with the queen being like well I want to actually you know like achieve some sort of broader political objective here um galadro just wanting to go off and do her battle to like so resolve her own personal issues uh and then dude keep forgetting his name um not being particularly interested yeah not at least as far as we can tell not being particularly interested in doing it but maybe being careful to not throw everything off like maybe he's kind of dialed back like his apprehensions to make sure that he's still got a foot in the door it's an opportunity but like these opportunities keep getting um they just keep they they keep letting them slip away because I don't know what they're doing it um yeah it's kind of uh kind of crazy honestly the the part of the reason I was bringing up that uh comparison by the way is just because of the the counter example which uh re-watching a little bit a bit of House of the D cause I'm showing Mr Mr ragsit now I'm gonna gonna get him try and get him caught up eventually possibly see what he thinks of it could be interesting this that way the other who knows in episode two it was it was shocking it was Unreal because I had almost forgotten it but I remembered oh yeah as it was happening and it's just that opposite direction so one of the characters says how do you how do you feel about situation X and the other character replies how uh the Situation's happening for very specific reasons for someone else's motivation then the cat goes back to the other character who says I didn't ask you that I asked you how you felt it was like whoa you listen to what they say they ignored your question and then you address the actual question it's just right you gotta yeah answer my question here that's why I asked there's there's nothing wrong with the character being evasive indeed yes uh that can be really useful in terms of characterizing somebody or setting the tone of a scene but it's also important that other characters you know sort of recognize these attempts to I mean sometimes they don't have to but I mean a lot of the time they should I I guess you would imagine that when the writer is coming to write this scene they have a pretty clear understanding that like each of these three characters has some objective that they're after and what should be informing their dialogue like for all of them is how do I best achieve that objective but like that's not the point of the scene the scene has an objective which is to essentially establish that there's drama but not resolve it yet because they want to do it later yeah problem is that that scene just can't play out the way that they want it to I think that's a problem I mean yeah I guess that's one of many explanations for why the dialogue is so broken in the show is because there is an objective for the scene and like whatever that object objective is we don't care at all what the characters in that scene actually would want to achieve with these conversations they're entirely secondary I'm not sure Muriel even has an objective in this scene like the only reason she's going abroad is a tree told me so because that's literally motivation well I would agree that the motivation is shallow but even even if that exists it's like ah you got to use it you know you gotta like you gotta do something with that the problem what annoys me it's tight as well it's not just the pedals I mean it is tied to the vision from the silmaril and then of course you have the prophecy which hasn't really been very well explained the prophecy is not anything about it's the property is supposed to be that um by turning away from the Valar and by extension by turning away from the elves then you're inviting numenor's destruction and so having seen the vision of Destruction uh what they are doing is going to try and hopefully in in her mind uh rekindle the love of the Valor and save numenor so they're going to try and save the life of their city and the pedals is kind of like their inspiration to go or the instigating Factor um that I think I think the show is try need to say that I don't think that that's a purely law derived thing it's just that it's I I don't know that I would have necessarily understood any of that how I had not already read because I don't think that's what the show is saying there's like she knows the Island's going to be destroyed but she doesn't know why or what's going to cause it so At first she tries to stay because she thinks that will prevent the disaster no she tries to send the galadril away right yes like she thinks if I go over there it may like backfire on me and cause the disaster so at first the plan is to just get rid of everything and that'll keep us safe and then when the tree petals fall she's like okay we that's that's a sign that I'm doing the wrong thing so I've got to do the opposite of that but I don't think she knows anything about following the elves or yeah there's a larger context here because we know numenor will be destroyed like we we know the larger story they're not going to break that can and I wouldn't think they would no and so by the pet tools because the instigating incident for me which is what causes numer laws down for is the queen leaving and letting Al ferozan then get all his evil things and and control the government and stuff but she's leaving because the pedal is telling this oh it's important that you live so it's actually the pedals is like a greater God of this universe telling quit the queen to leave which is causing the destruction of numenor dude it's all poorly explained ambiguous like prophecy fate Destiny God religion stuff and it seems like every decision is based around this very poorly explained element of the universe and there's in it and I just I'm like I don't know what why you're anyone's doing what anyone's doing just these vagaries of Supernatural things and I can't follow this there's no connecting lines for me to follow as an audience member the leaves dropping when galadril's leaving she's like oh so we're supposed to fight the war in Middle Earth then it's like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa that could mean many things if you're taking it literally the leaves dropping is the god of your place saying no it could just mean keep Galadriel here or do we send her with troops or like do I need to go exactly like like I have a whole Kingdom run I have what if it leaves what if the pedals meant that she's doing the right thing and she was doing such a right thing that like in all the pedals I was like yes oh damn it it's like I'm just trying to give signs and they just misread yeah they just show up and tell me what to do instead of giving me these vague guide Direction things with three flowers it's a God okay God just come down and tell me what the [ __ ] do you can do that sort of as a narrative device there is um I don't remember where it's from there is an old sort of parable example of um there's a man and he lives he lives in a city and he gets his fortune told and the fortune tells him that he will die in the city that night and so of course he gets scared shitless and he runs away to his brother's house in the next city where he is then killed because the city was not specified so like the idea that you can't escape fate but that you are only able to judge your or prejudge your fate by the available information you can therefore be surprised is something you can do it's a legitimate dramatic thing but you have to earn the audience's patience and understanding for the payoff then to be worthwhile otherwise it just seems irrational to be making this because I was going to say that in in your example that he's avoiding a city and ends up in a city that's that's something but this is the the pedals left when Galadriel was leaving on a boat so that means we must go to war it's like wow that's a jump yeah because I yeah here here I think the vagueness in this is deliberous I think it's part of their whole Mystery Box thing that oh we'll just draw them in because nobody's quite understanding what's going on and it also has a side benefit of a lot of people will think it's deep simply because they don't comprehend what it is so they think there must be something more there yeah that you just can't comprehend yet but if you keep going you'll definitely find out this really complex plot will reveal itself and then you've got the other side where people will use that and their knowledge of the books to explain things that may not even be in the show but no you just don't understand if you take this bit from this book then and so you you create this little army of people that will defend the show for things that it hasn't earned or doesn't deserve and probably will never happen you're absolutely right this vagueness is smoking mirrors that idiots use to try and feign you know greater intelligence and wisdom in when they'd lack the capacity to achieve it naturally it's really frustrating it's being invited by the show as well because it does keep throwing in mentions of things like The Valor and there's a few names in this episode he mentions Ali for example some of the Valor which well they're only understandable if you've read the books and so they sort of appeal to people who have and say ah so this is all part of The Grand Design isn't it um even though the the entire design has been uprooted and shifted around and the timeline's been [ __ ] and actually there's no guide you can take from that anymore because they can change any of the Canon they choose to um so they are inviting that kind of sympathy from a certain sort of class of the audience uh it's sort of dishonest and a bit Shameless but they are trying and I gather for a couple of people at least they are succeeding so separate to the conversation we're having there's another thing that bothers me here with the queen and what she does from an outside Observer all these people just trust elves an elf arrives and elf arrives right and she's like no we won't do anything for the elf we need to distrust you then the elf sneaks into her bedroom and now she's committing an entire Army to the elf's cause I'd be thinking holy crap this elf just like mind controlled our queen and the government is completely subverted what the hell is going on but no one reacts with any logic about what's happening they're just like oh we're going to war yes let's do it I mean we had mentioned that baller and I when we watched these when the soldiers are leaving the city I'm like man like do you do you do you all know why you're going yeah do any of you know why you're doing I almost hope they don't this is happening because how depressing if they do well I I assume that they don't I don't know what they would say yeah I mean that's a good point how do you how do you justify this it's absolutely nonsense I think we hit like passing comments in some scenes that are like we're going on the word of a stinky elf and her stinky human like what what the what the [ __ ] and it's like that guy's right I mean okay yeah so you've got half hours then who's gonna be this this incredibly integral character and has been portrayed in the show until this point as much more the voice of the people than the queen is and you do see him at some point in the show going through a crowd of people who are very angry at the fact that they're going to war the missing scene is him addressing those people it's like what does the demagogue do when he's lost the people who he's who support him how does he win them back around how does he get public support which then explains why the people are so willing to go to war when you see the soldiers actually leave and it fills out his character if you do that it fills out the politics of the world as you do that it fills out numerous places in the world if you do that and it wouldn't have taken more than one thing to do that but they don't do that they skip it and it's so weird I mean they had they had the scene when the the chick and the guy were talking it was like I don't go to war about all these people complaining about them going to war and then when they leave the entire city is cheering and everyone's on board I'm like what happened to the people that were objecting that that's a reasonable objection but no I don't even know why these people are cheering yeah yeah they were paid farazon paid them he's like I'll just sit at cheer or something I don't know we'll get another trade partner that's cool so in conclusion with this line given that I've staked my name upon it I should hope so in reference to him Leading Men in as a king once they get there it seems to me that she wouldn't even bother being like oh he will cool when when it's suggested in this moment that he absolutely will not she is Queen region should be like wait are you [ __ ] serious I've been told this whole time you're 100 on board you're telling me you're not you wouldn't go hmm and then glad you'll go right here like we got ships ready it's not even like you have doubts even like even if you got a doubt man I'm committing a lot to like help here exactly that's why I I hate it she's the the often not in character the dialogue never goes the way it probably should judging from what people because I think you have plenty of room with dialogue you don't have to have like one line in particular out of all lines possible but I just I just hate it when they they just give up there's a part in this episode later where two questions are asked and they're completely ignored and and I'm so tired of it when they really like their questions that both the characters very much want the answers to um but like it's it's the way of the right it's like avoiding concluding that that a drama at this at this point they don't do it just yeah because they're not ready to do it yet so we can carry on from this scene uh at least I think yeah he [ __ ] slaps down his um his whole thing to symbolize that like he's the it's the king or whatever if I were glad you're I'd be like Jesus [ __ ] Christ if the queen sees this oh God this is all going wrong maybe I could just dress up some random elf guy as a whole bird I'd be like no this is him it's fine we got the king it's all good we're going and that that is the only thing that links him to being that King he's got a pouch that he says himself he's still a dead man they're like Oh no you're definitely the kicks ridiculous no it is insane the the Assumption glad you're doing here I I can't I couldn't believe it it's like holy crap she assumes rightly so though that this universe will bend itself towards her will regardless of how much sense it does or doesn't make so it seems to be in character you are right by the way about the whole never occurred to me you would hand me over for a guild Crest it's kind of funny because if that scene with pharah's on he doesn't say if you give me a guild Crest I'll tell you where she goes she's going he just said he just tells farazon yeah so it's just like was he then later like hey you know I helped out with that can I have a Gilcrest now I could see fires I'll be like no no I don't I literally don't I I can't just make you a guilt but I'm not even you even yeah I'm not even remotely connected to Eddie why would you no bye no how bad that would make me look if I gave you a guild Crest you crazy person that's what I mean it just doesn't even seem to make sense and like even From galadriel's perspective she's like wow did you crack that deal in the seconds you spoke to farazon like that was quick it's like no I'm a very quick deal maker uh I'm in the deal Guild yeah and so he's like you've used me and then she went I've convinced him to send armies to save your people you manipulated me really more that freaking line what are you doing she's she's downright abusive uh [ __ ] good he's like explicit in how much he doesn't want any of this so she's like I've gotten all this for you you're using me it's like you're freaking but yeah I'm taking away your freedom but because the prison I'm putting you in has cushy like nice cushions you should be thanking me for doing it for years like holy crap this is a slave master telling a slave they should be grateful I couldn't believe it I was like yeah she's just so staggeringly unlikable in every way they really [ __ ] this up because it's not just one scene two scenes three scenes it's every single one about how much they don't get on how much he has to be convinced to move out of the [ __ ] Smith's stable or whatever like they got the the queen could be around the corner she could have just been there like wow so this is way worse than you guys let out huh you assumably the guards are still waiting for him to escort them out oh they would they would never tell anyone anything okay they keep it to themselves I'm sure certainly not loyal to the queen no yeah because they're listening to the Future King of man in the Southlands or whatever just today like I don't want anything to do with this [ __ ] [ __ ] this and it's just like wow that's that's awkward that's fine though we'll just keep it to ourselves no worries and don't worry a little bit soon we'll be back momentarily and just I'm just sorry like the when you know Rags are saying she's so unlikable I can't believe how truly unlikable it made it like think of that line in episode three where she's like who is this Mort who speaks to me is it he has the slightest idea of who I am I couldn't believe it and it's like you freaking it's like you're like the polar opposite of that is when you have someone like Yoda who's considered the greatest Jedi of all time sort of thing and he's pretending to be a [ __ ] idiot in front of Luke and when Luke is actually aware of it leota's like yeah I'm pretty awesome actually but that's okay don't worry about it you can talk to me however you want that sort of vibe where you're like oh man this guy's kind of cool versus the one who's like stop talking to me like a normal person I'm better than you like oh I think you're I think it's just pretty standard right everybody's generally gonna take a liking to these cool humble characters who are much more competent intelligent than they let on versus characters who have to constantly declare how great they are but it also it's like you could only behave this way and get away with it if you knew that the person had no other choice but to do what you were saying because otherwise like you don't need them to like you you don't need them agree with you they will just do it because of who you are so apart from the fact that she's read the script and knows they're going to make that decision you couldn't act like this to anyone because you would just immediately put them off what you're trying to do because she's not clever she's got nothing on him she just assumes he's going to do it and so she can treat him however she wants and however crap she wants to treat him like because he's basically dominant which is the protagonist she is the protagonist so she knows that everybody's gonna Bend to her whim which is but again she this she's a person in a world filled with people with their own goals yeah like seriously this is the type of character who you would have built up as the villain to make the audience just crave to see them defeated because that's what I want I want to see glad you'll just get what's coming to her and humbled and that defeated in some way and I I that's not what you want for your protagonist you don't want me rooting for her to structure the destruction I wish everything gets in her way and hey they they did kill her in the list of the latest episode seriously I cheered when that pirate classic all right I'm good rings of power is done uh and that's my head yeah the credits rolled after it it's a six episode ending six episode A Series in total this was a weird adaptation but fine you know if it's whatever it's done she's dead now you got a good run quote unquote what are they going to explain why everybody survived that I'm sure they will have them survive she's going to be walking like you know covered in Cheeto dust it's not hot or something it's magic magic it was electricity in it oh come on its own weather systems over to the harvards which once again I was like oh God yep keeping that in mind right because there's lots of memes that have been made from what we last talked about it it's like it really does come across that way but keeping it all in mind with the [ __ ] dialogue they give us this time around is surprising we have our team who are moving their way through this far isn't it logistically speaking they are in the same Forest as the other half foot selection of people they're actually quite close by now because they bump into one directly and it's like oh okay it looked like you guys were two on the beach yeah yeah so I just I thought they had no hope in Hell catching it but they have uh so good for them I suppose now we've got it's so high power so hard to remember the character names they noticed there's uh footprints for the the wolf bear pig things and how man it's miles away from the road I don't even know and and you know this this actually really pissed me off because they they spent a good moment in what's episode one showing that a wolf was watching him when they went to pick berries and everything and they do nothing with it and if they're trying to say that this is the follow-up from that setup bullcrap piss off they are miles away from that first wolf there's no way that that wolf track them out on tight time no this is a new reintroduction that now they've they're writing into walls on their travel which means that scene in that first episode was completely freaking pointless they would tell you nothing they would tell you that was introducing the wolf the problem is this introduces the wolf so exactly this is the introduction yeah I agree what's the point of all of that if you're just going to do it again uh and as you said like it's not like it was the same [ __ ] wolf or anything like it's like he's back Jeremiah the wolf go get you um let's just shows the competence of the creators of this show oh and I think uh right did you say it um the the way they shoot this is like they all just they just walk toward the footprints directly as though they've been told to go there instead of like it's very yeah they're on the road they're walking around and then we just see norian fat just arrive there they're just at the footprints now looking down oh no how did you even pull away with that yeah you're the road there teleported here so there's no reason for them to walk all the way over here and find these but the the show is just like no they did you're like oh okay they even walked past a set of footprints which are closer I only just noticed that as it scrolled down it's actually true yeah so it's uh yeah okay well you know be scared wolves dead and we get the next bit which uh was I was so [ __ ] shocked that they did this it's just doubling down basically lady Henry's like uh being told by this lady I don't even know who this is his wife baby something I don't know but she she's like oh not a good harvest right now must be because of that tall guy they have and he's like I don't know what you want me to do about it and she's like we should have taken their wheels and left them it's like yeah all the implication that these guys are psychopaths they really wanted to confirm it in this episode to leave them to die in the wilderness what is wrong with you why would anybody continue especially if they're keeping up like you're just yeah evil what are they bother giving us the shock expression from Lenny Henry if it's normal enough for her to suggest it on top of it right this isn't for an actual crime or anything it's for Eerie portents that they're reading in this like it's ah where we can't find food because they're you've got a person with him and that's Foundation enough for them to like kill people and there's fewer birds in the woods today must be his fault kill him I'm really I can't think of another show that's done more damage to one of its groups of characters in so shorter space remember because we've had like maybe 20 minutes of screen time during which the not Hobbits have gone from kind of charming kind of lovable just vaguely irritating Irish gypsies to oh actually they abandoned their sick to oh actually they kneecap people they don't like and leave them to wolves because the woods scare them I think they were I think they were meant to be comedy relief because you had that whole chair rolling down the hill and it was yeah yeah 70s kind of Comedy kind of stuff and then we've got the and then in the very next scene as it's just pure evil she's actually talking to the people that she said yeah I think we should go and kill him as if she's their friend as if Oh no just tell me what's going on she she so two-faced it is I mean we are the last episode we were sort of joking about the cannibalism thing but actually on the current trajectory they will be easy each other before the end of the show I think what makes them particularly contemptible is we keep saying oh they're going to kill him it's like it's kind of like they don't even they're just gonna leave them to die they're gonna sabotage them and leave them in the woods to die like they don't even that's that is the kind of group of AI you know like that is the most accurate interpretation it was a meme interpretation to say that they would eat them but we're getting there it's just like how are we getting there that's insane and uh it's crazy as well because like these kinds of like this this little like group of people it's very reminiscent of the you would expect them to be the most welcoming the most friendly and chill the most wholesome like oh there's this guy but they're like the most evil they as we were saying the Orcs are competing with them right now to become more evil it's insane I don't know how we got to this point and the other thing that I really don't get is that they all seemed incredibly sad that uh you know the they were gonna fall behind how sad that's that's really upset Oh by luck the space man has actually made it so that they can catch up with us instead of celebrating that even for a second being like Oh it's so good that they won't die now they instead of like we're not getting as much food as usual we have to kill them it's like whoa now like what and so what I'm trying to say is like uh if someone said like are you being absurd this is just one person with one criticism it's like yeah but what else have we had from the harfords in this episode nothing it's just this lady saying something absolutely crazy that characterizes the half as just being these insane killers don't be stupid we're never gonna do that yeah he just goes that's it all right you're not supposed to say that out loud that's yeah that's probably what it is so let me ask you this who is a Kinder leader sardok or Adar wow hey Dad warns they're dead you know there is the Dead to his people um yeah maybe he was burning him he was like don't worry this little callous over and you'll have stronger skin for it trust me maybe yeah plus we're out of lotion Ada has not yet advocated killing any of his Orcs for Well yeah if we're talking which one is the better leader like overall it's definitely Ada but which one's like the more caring it's like probably Ada I think yeah I'm also going for the guy who doesn't say I don't like you today so I'm going to kneecap you thank you but it's not just kneecap it's knee captain in a wolf infested Forest it's like it's death they are yeah they're definitely Debbie them to death yeah yeah but I think we would all agree if you needed like these wheels in order to save your own life and someone takes the wheels away from you they are killing you right that's fair yes yeah and then they will write your name down a book and then tell you for the rest of Eternity we will wait for you we will tell lies about how you died and laugh about why you die if it was in a comedic way and if you if you're an idiot they'll be glad of it as well so he was a yeah we'll laugh at your horrific demise at the death of bees death by bees this is so funny I've been killed from that oh yeah especially if you're a hard foot and you're little which means bees are like five times the size they normally are oh a swarm of them stinging you to death [ __ ] me that must be a terrible way to die they're all like what an idiot he's like thanks guys I mean we wait for you yeah wait wait oh yeah yeah that's that's we're very sad so uh yeah the Wolves start attacking everyone's panicking I know I was saying it reminds me watching it I was like so I guess they don't have like anything close to a warrior or scoutsman hunter anything among them that could actually like fashion any kind of weapon right to the point where they don't not even like Cutlery anything like none of them seem to have any access to any weapons they are just prey like they're like bunny rabbits basically seems kind of dumb Sticks no gardening tools something and they always have they're considered like one of their top tier enemies they always bump into it's like make a spear you'll thank me later okay I mean they put entries in episode one to guard against the hunters not obviously to fight the hunters off but so they could tell everyone they're about to die yeah that's apparently that's it sell the horn come out lie down it's your turn you know it makes me think of the film Willow with the you know race of dwarves they have Warriors amongst them as well like they have a far more rounded civilization and balance like you know Society if I orders of magnitude compared to these freaking hard foots as someone in Chad just said it's like oh they have a strategy they throw their week at them and then run yeah that's why they're one of the few they're one of the few communities that are glad to have old and weak amongst them it's it's like um it's like when you have like it's like recharging Shields over your health bar you could just throw the weak and the elderly at your enemies before it starts to hurt your actual health bar they should have done that in this scene with the Wolf Chase if you just like picked one of them up and lobbed her at the wall they lobbed her and ran well lucky for them the almost to the point of dying it looks like dory's about to try and break off like a branch to use it potentially as a spear but uh I'm gonna be able to do it I thought it was going to be the cliche you know you hold it and the Wolf jumps on it yeah she saw the episodes where black elf was he was just pulling things off trees and stabbing Orcs with it she's like oh I could do that I'm sure that was the wasn't that the knife tree where he pulled a knife off the tree wasn't that is that what that was because yeah he yeah he pulled off uh it just grows knives that's a knife tree yeah knives are beautiful as a species they just grow in the wild guys guys sticks are very powerful he just the guy knew it well look so powerful she couldn't even break it off and that cost it yeah this is I liked how they uh they were going to say oh the wolves are chasing us we need to climb a tree to escape the wolves and then they climb a tree which is about one foot off the ground that's like three feet to a hard foot it's like a whole mile yeah seriously the wolves are twice as tall as they are to us so really they're still in the black they're still in the Reds from this shot right Nori's at ground level the woman that they were with she's sitting down like at ground level she knows she's dead she doesn't care she's like [ __ ] it whatever it's fine there's plenty of trees they actually might be able to you know get to some level of safety of that tree but just like nah yeah they start climbing they have to be they have to have a lot of they had you have to have a head start and a really good tree this I I think I had said this scene reminded me of something from Ice Age where you have the three Critters they like they finally get to them and they sort of stop together and they slowly all close in yeah Ice Age Ice Age was fun I remember that being a fun movie yeah yeah good times so what does Gandalf do he turns up and he's like I'm gonna get you any brown pounds a famous move from the character Mario that he's clearly copied so [ __ ] op the ground pound you could just Spam it and it hits all the wolves and it's like uh hey he gets hurt right he gives his arm a little flame and he's like ouchy right yeah really lucky he was here at the time geez it could have been torn up Lucky wasn't off yeah doing rambling while eating snails or whatever you know you were pretty close to just having a plot line I know I know this show does this a lot where it's like your your hated character could get eviscerated there's no reason to follow this plot anymore but no we won't let it happen yeah like elf man he knew he dies like 10 times in this show it's not fair and we're here made it welcome so context first they are doing a little sparring stuff and the first I think you said it straight away right it's like wait a minute are they the actual swords are they are they using their actual swords to spawn like careful Lads that you [ __ ] you might want to you know watch out or [ __ ] kill each other I think there's a couple of shows that do this or even movies and stuff where they remember me watched uh Troy and they had the wooden swords when they were practicing and it's like hey see Madness you should you you can only practice with very very sharp the sharpest swords are reserved for practice because if you practice with very very sharp swords you will really do your best to not get hit now um not only that like like so I've done a full video breaking this down and it takes an hour to try and cover everything else I'm not sure oh my goodness but they're practicing in the middle of a street on steps and it's like what what Ninja passerbys and two they don't have a Barracks or anything they're training yeah it's so stupid yeah this because it just looks like they just set up randomly and they're even maybe stores nearby for like Merchants they're just like oh you do it you do this okay that's that's great I guess my [ __ ] business for the day is shut down that's fine this is uh you do you guys yeah as you said all the steps as well like what a stupid way to add a variable where you're trying to teach them very specific lessons there's people try to get pastors like excuse me I've got a shop over there just to move all right no I'll wait fine sure yeah swing your swords around oh boy it just happens to be next to halbrand's forge as well just coincidentally he's there at the sidelines but funny enough I think this is we actually because yeah I went through this episode on uh on Friday night tights as well so it's all very Deja Vu but here we go again so it opens with his leg because it deals like oh you could offer your assistance because you know everything and are really good and awesome and the best at everything so you tell my men how to be better please like alrighty there are many ways to kill an orc foreign I thought that was early one I'm glad you were there to Toby glad you're thanks Ruby we need a Heckler in her audience to be like whoa never thought of that wow special magical ritual was that the only person that said outside out loud when they were watching it stab him like I thought I was taking the piss when she said that line and I'm like What's the best way to kill an orc stub him and somehow right those two lines are very close to each other but there's a little bit of cringe in the middle too uh okay one more line which says but for you guys I'll keep it uh strong and simple as you say yeah yeah man boys translation you're all [ __ ] so I gotta keep it really simple for you this is the time like right as we're about to step on the boats essentially and go off on this weird war across the world now I guess we might as well tell you about killing Orcs or something it's like half these guys not had any fighting well it evidently happened but should they not have had any fighting experience against anyone because it's not just Orcs that you can kill by stabbing them and twisting like that's pretty much most humanoid creatures you'd think they'd have been training with that basically since they first held a sword which apparently but this island doesn't seem to have a military these are just people that volunteered to go out of like these were Traders and Merchants and stuff a few seconds ago people you know the greatest worries in all the world the new minorians look at how great they are they have to be taught to stab what is happening oh it's so difficult to watch yeah but as as that is the first command to give us but a stab twist gut is basically the most like whiskey I thought you were talking could work right in the show stab twist cut yes his name is what's funny about that like that actually by by the wording gives us a location of the strike in the gut which just means that's a slow like a gut wound is a slow death it wouldn't be an instant kill it's it's actually one of the worst places to Striker I think she means like to gut something but like I don't know like if you if let's say that you have a sword right and it's sharp and pointy and wonderful and you stab someone with it do you want to twist and gut or do you want to just like pull it out and do that again the thing like do you want to twist it the Twist and withdrawal of a sword wouldn't do if you're thinking of gut like throw out all their entrails onto the ground a stab and a Twist wouldn't do that you'd need a Big Slice right now yeah exactly yeah I it's just all [ __ ] this wouldn't do what you're thinking it's you're saying it would do you're just stabbing them in the gut and they wouldn't die they'd still be and then pull back and then stab again and then just just [ __ ] have it's a party man just keep stabbing until it's dead because I've only just realized I think this is meant to be like an Easter egg callback because that's how she kills the troll at the start when she's on his head yeah stab twist gut and then the blood flies at the camera hang on this is meant to be a reference but she doesn't cut him and she keeps stabbing it over and over and over again yeah she gets this jaw and I did like that bit where she gutted it by stabbing it through the skull oh yeah that's how you that's how you do it yeah by the way that's where the twisting comes in you stab but then the twists it lets you go you if you were if you were some [ __ ] fool and you decided to stab gut twist it would just it would not it wouldn't work it wouldn't work at all everything would fall apart it'd be it'd be embarrassing and everyone would laugh at you for for gutting before you twisted it simply isn't done something what about twist got stab that like we don't even don't eat don't even don't even get me started on twisting first so armor what do we do with that and she's just like baffled she's like yeah I told you the three words I don't care if I have armor stab twist gut you know how this works it's very simple what if the oak is surrendering what if they have information stab stab stab certain other shows though have been telling us recently they're being stabbed through the gut is actually not that big a deal and you can carry on and recover within the space of an episode at most so is this really even the most effective battle character given that most people seem to recover from being impaled through the spot I don't know if that's what it's supposed well that's because they didn't quit that was it in twist and gut they did the twist Vader didn't twist and gut he just stabbed yeah well we I think what we talked about all that is just like if you just keep the lightsaber in for a couple of seconds they will do the rest of the work trust me they will take care of it and the lightsaber cauterizes them so as we know from this episode well the next episode that just magically heals everything all of it um so someone's gonna highlight as well uh Chad you may have thought that maybe she's not gutting it considering she's at shoulder height at this point but they very handily pointed us out her shoulder height is actually the average man's gut height right there see well gutting is a it's like uh it's like a verb to gut something not necessarily to stab in the gut right because you could I thought something is to actually have the guts come out once you've yeah you would need a slice all the way down the chest and navel but as we can put them open the troll this this is called setup and pay off you [ __ ] plebians right this is why when she kills the troll and guts the jaw it's like it's just the general Act of gutting well then wouldn't that be payoff and setup at that point this is how we like we're finally learning like when we first saw the troll fight we're like wow that was incredible how did she know to to twist and gut like that that's incredible I would have never thought to to execute that maneuver and this is it this is this this exactly now we're learning how she did it everyone in the theater clapped I'm like that's how she learned how of course it's the technique like you're running about Alma before but Galadriel knows that all the armor in this is actually just like leather or cloth with printed on things to make it look like armor so like doing that it's like it's like Orcs from Warhammer right you just draw the armor on and believe in it it's a this is it's honestly I don't know what the problem with the scene is Tolkien wrote All About This Tolkien often would write in in his Memoirs he'd twist yeah no no no we gonna yes stab stab twist gut stab twist cut it's his most famous quote it's on his Tombstone if you go to his his grave on his it says James Ronald Raul token or whatever his name was and then and then when he died and stopped with stab twist cut it was an odd funeral but he was an unusual man I thought it was funny that after she puts it forward and then pulls it back there's this girl here who's just like blown away she's like whoa I never thought to do that I've seen that move before man wow see I thought she was more reacting like and I thought she was actually like can you believe this crazy castle are you Kevin are you okay look how cool she looks Chad so cool come on you even said come at me that is something I've totally expect you to say he actually does the twist The Twist yeah like wow could you 've been someone with a straight piece of metal could you turn it 90 degrees like that that's got to be that's that's got to be really incredibly strong ranks okay she's like the strongest person in Middle Earth I think at this point all right the twist right might open up a wound a little bit more but it could also get your sword stuck in Target which is you don't want to do and usually when you land a strike you want to withdraw it as quickly as possible put your guard back up in case they still follow through an attack and so the act of focusing on twisting every time you land a hit is [ __ ] and what if we changed you have to gut you can't half-ass it and stop at the twist what if we change the scene so that she's training up let's just say a random set of six so land deals doing six as well but they can hear each other's sort of advice and it starts bouncing off and she says twist the gut yeah stab woohoo and then he's just like he hears them and he starts telling his guys like you don't want to just stab twist and gut there's a good chance you'll actually get your sword stuck and you need to you know he just brings in all the extra information and offers other Alternatives and then she catches that then she's like an unexperienced bubble and then and then back and fall back fall back forth until they maybe give them a [ __ ] fight I'm bored I want something else to happen make something character related happen if you're gonna have shitty choreography okay you have something to offset and I beg you you are Montage Montage of basic training and then you don't have to show people all of your shitty choreography yeah that's interesting too is that Galadriel is supposed to be like an actual commander of troops with hundreds and hundreds of years of experience at this point the advice that she gives to this unit of Fighters has nothing to do with cohesion and discipline and sticking together and covering each other it's it's just the stab gut twist like oh thanks I wouldn't have thought about that it's not something to do with you know like leadership so that they're portrayed as being you know naive and they're all volunteers so presumably you know they've never fought before and they've not done any basic training before and yet apparently they have all done more than basic training when it comes to horsemanship and formations right because when it comes to that they're fine so which is it that they can't be completely untrained novices or very seasoned experienced and well drilled people it has to be one or the other but she's actually anti-formation because she starts saying things like fight with your feet move around well you can't do that in a formation you've got people on either side of it oh I know I'm sorry you've already given too much Charity she didn't say like move around she says fight with your feet not without your arms not your arms your arms your arms get way too much attention when it comes to fighting don't eat don't you think about it you should be man that's what you should do with your arms strategy that one has to employ you know like there are people who can fight without arms like cassowaries for example they use their feet to fight so these are the Black Knights of Python and the Holy Grail to people without your legs it's incredible how much they have in common what about it right the snake Army the snake Army is they don't have well I guess they don't have feet either but it reminds me they have like about I don't know good old Batman Begins a lot of people appreciate the uh the training scene where the main point uh Razzle Ghul wants to make is just be aware of where you are he doesn't say mind your surroundings because your arms are useless like he's he's like don't care about he's he's just like no no just just be aware because your opponent's going to use it to their advantage and you should be doing that too that sort of thing where if she said mind your footing because that could be the difference between you know Victory and loss like nobody's gonna take issue with that but when you say it's all about your legs not your arms you're just like wait what if she said I'll be like yeah okay that's fair enough it's just not your arms neglect your balance you know you need you need to you need to keep your balance don't flail around like a [ __ ] you need to yeah just little things that might be useful in a five minute lesson not stab twist gut yeah I mean that Batman was referenced earlier in in the school I mean do you have that scene where he's he's tripped up and because he's tripped up that's the opportunity then to say mind your feed have a have her trip one of these soldiers up and then you can give that lesson relevantly without detracting from everything else they're supposed to be learning like how to hold a sword presumably like she could get around them and they can't get a reach of her because they haven't moved their feet to accommodate yet and she you know that's how you can be like see you gotta get get them get them a bit more fluid you are correct they they do not do that though and uh or another curiosios uh I wanna I wanna go over this so a land deals like if anyone can like hit her I think it's a score flash if anyone can do that on Galadriel they get Lieutenant um score hit or something yeah so uh is that like common because what is what rank is Lieutenant overall in terms of like how far up is that compared to just uh sort of soldier the tenant is fairly High I believe is that something you should just give to somebody because they scored a hit oh this was my complaint when we watched it was it it's that that lack of a leadership element where if you if you are able to score a hit on me Galadriel the Mighty the the fair the incredible Then I then this guy is going to promote you to a position where you will be like commanding troops issuing orders like participating in tactics and many strategies it's like oh why because you hit some [ __ ] with a sword so now that makes you qualified to do those things it's like calm down it's back we don't have any training for you guys anyway I don't even know where the Army is don't even ask and we're sending you off to fight and you have to learn about stabbing twisting and gutting and one of you is going to be a lieutenant it pays better so that's something like I can think of better ways to sort of order military Affairs and essentially who wins the game of tag and then they could just carry that going because whoever tags the lieutenant can become the lieutenant instead um that not sure is that it's a really good basis for military organization but it's a basis and then treating rank as well here as like a treat as opposed to something you are because you've earned it and that's the that's the appropriate level skill you have you know it's like who wants this well one yeah one would demonstrate skill but this turns into 1v5 where it's just look yeah if she happens to be dealing with someone else what she achieves in the scene is just you guys suck and I am great she doesn't actually teach them anything of significance they're like focusing on all right because yeah you can point out mistakes but then what you should follow up from that is this is how you overcome the mistake all she is is pointing out your mistakes and saying how sucky you guys and how great I am it's just an ego Fest for us the way around it which I think is quite quick and easy to do is whilst they're doing like the five on one fight you have one of them start sort of naturally giving orders that you stand there you stand there that surround her and then as a result of the movement he's on the spot planned he's the one who scores the hit and then you you accomplish both things so that you show he's got natural leadership qualities he also scores the hit to establish it you know meets the criteria set at the beginning and it makes the fight a little bit more interesting because at least you can see someone learning something from it this isn't the first time we've seen this character so we've had opportunities to show this stuff oh yeah but he's just like some guy you know and and I wonder is this gonna hurt them by by having them fight against her who's who's so skilled the universe spends to her will and desires versus how you're going to be fighting against Orcs is this the kind of like is they've never been over there before so for all they know that's the fighting standard they're going to go and meet as soon as they get to Middle Earth they don't know she's truly that exceptional so if they go over and expect that holy [ __ ] there's so much over there that we've just not trained or prepared for that could be psychologically hitting it's like these guys aren't fighting like that elf at all like oh yeah uh pretty stupid doesn't it it's mainly just to show off yeah and there's so many things that she could have done that actually would have made sense for the law like say uh Orcs they don't respond to pain the way that you'd think so you have to go for an instant kill they'll keep fighting even with chopped off limbs or kind of things or or say Orcs they're very single-minded creatures they will always treat you yeah they'll attack State down a straight line so if you move laterally and get around them you can flank them and uh hit them on this uh there's so many things you could do that make sense but instead she's like you suck I'm great that like the Orcs typically do these like Dodges and everything these like ninja so some of them are showing right now is this is when he first starts attacking her and she's doing the Dodges because she's so [ __ ] cool look at this strike here for a second this was getting me lost cause I didn't hit her he's like swinging and shooting up and she only Dodges sorry after it lands if you will hey God on top of that he's doing exactly what she said she's stabbing intelligent that's how you feel it works not elves don't work that way so this is this is really it's it's yeah Orcs are stab twist gut now oryx those are twist got stab all right gut stab twist yeah yeah it's it's like you got to know the patterns for every enemy that you're fighting it's it's very class she was leading them into making this kind of blender they should have been like so clever he pokes to the top left and then pulls the sword right back and goes back to like a neutral stance as opposed to just bringing the sword down on it and then she's dead that's I'm pointing at that exactly they don't follow up any strikes with anything from he just has to reset and because what she does is so stupid and they're acting like she's so great but roller I point that out in my uh fight scene autopsy if he just struck down from that position should be cut in two but she's acting like I'm so great when no it's because he's acting like a completely noob right at the start she'd be dead because she doesn't Dodge enough and then his immediate reaction is to go straight for her face which yeah just kill her if she like these are practice swords right or is he just made to look like practice are they actually it's surely it's not normal to do like practice fighting like this with real swords everything though that's like the real thing people practice they [ __ ] practice with the real deal the sharp steel well yeah because like what if he actually does hit you like you might be in some serious trouble if you blunt a sword and you stab it in someone's face that's going in like there's no way that's protected of clothing so it's probably a real sword oh it's a real one yeah and what what happens if like when you hold it up to someone's neck they sneeze and accidentally cut their jugular it's like whoops guys let's find out millennial's having fun okay and that's all that matters and look she holds the blunt end of the sword to him and people might say oh it's intentional but later on the fight she holds the sharp end of the sword to someone as well so I just goes to show that she's not paying attention to her edge position at all also it's probably minded but like she's probably have a head side in like a ponytail no it looks cooler if it flows I don't know missing as well is painful and you just yeah like well there was one before where he swung and she like did a little like she she Dodges like I feel like if you just swung back you would have gotta like if you were just followed it through by swinging again look here sharp edge now on him where before it was the blood edges so she can't even see the swing to dodge it so she has no idea if she's about to walk backwards into a blade coming straight at her have you considered that she has all information at all times yeah have you considered this is the camera dude this guy going for that hit almost like as a surprise attack as well she's like damn careful like we really are getting close to kill again not that that's a problem he goes to stab his mate I'm sure with that one it doesn't go for her looks like nobody was aiming at then she didn't move much to dodge it's like he just aimed at the floor I mean she is so smug throughout all of this yeah you can see why they might end up wanting to kill her if if I were doing anything sport whatever and the person I was playing against wore the expression she wears when she's going through this I think yeah I I am actually gonna love this snooker cure your face by the end of this game I was really surprised that they actually had him um I really didn't expect that when I first saw this that she would get tagged I was like oh my god wow I would have thought maybe they should allow it to happen on purpose so that she you know gives them some level of Hope or something not that it happened against her will they might have been going for that though this little elbow sends the guy for like he's gone he's flying guys is to just like swing these wide horizontal swings like that when you're in this melee like she must have 20 times the strength or something because she's blocking full-on strikes with the most gentlest of TAPS and especially her strength must be right how would you not have that face when you are just a god person compared to everyone else in every regard I feel like I'd just be bored all the time yeah wow it's just you know what we learned from saitama is that if you're like all powerful and nobody can defeat you you just walk he just Falls over for no reason yeah so I know what this guy's aiming for the middle of them I uh I find it really lame when people say that if you slow down every fight so that they fall apart he opens his arms oh that's great but he walks into the sword again how did you do that you had all that time to prep and you just go up God terrible and it feels like it shouldn't be this bad you should be able to this is like the one sword fight they've probably had to deal with on like so much money exactly you know like well they said so much money the director spoke about it he said this was really easy because of all the time they'd put into practice uh we didn't have to use any face doubles or anything so we filmed it in about a day they actually practice to look for that [ __ ] what Ryan Johnson said the exact same thing about The Throne Room fight he said that they nailed it so hard and they're experimenting of it or whatever didn't they do it like once he filmed it from multiple angles then they were pretty much good to go or that uh he filmed them doing it several several times and it got all because they were just so [ __ ] good at it he knew that they had it even though it's trying to like for a while stimulate um you know a wanna like like when the when the fight starts and you can clearly see all the errors and it's like yeah but it's a wanna like yeah but the whole point is that you nail the errors you don't make errors that's the whole [ __ ] point that makes a water impressive that not only did it not take a day but the scene that comes later between her and hellbrand also took a day so those they seems those as equal I man that's not the brag that it did I only spent a Day filming that's not a brag because they're so good it only took 11 days to write the script wow he almost kills him what yeah he just Dodges the sword good on him honestly if she would have killed him she knew it she she she's like I have assessed his combat capabilities he's operating at 76 of Maximum potential uh he will slow at air inertia level B point six unless he's like a computer a super computer Untouchable I just uh I decided to look it up because when you mentioned the wannas so the the hallway fighting dead evil season one they only had two days to rehearse it and half a day to film it it's like mad and they had a lot less money than you and look how it turned out holy [ __ ] ing discipline they must have had ever well it's just um what is the when I look at this fight I'm not even sure what it is that's meant to be really exciting and cool about it is it that they're fighting in like kind of a bizarre and they're fighting through are they all useless because it's not very impressive if they're all supposed to be useless right now like they're not trained at all which is the thing that's amazing you know what she said that she says don't plant roots keep moving that's what they've been doing the whole time plant their feet a bit firmer and focus on where they're trying to hit things because they like I don't see the appeal of a fight scene where it's just like ABS ah okay so I am just gonna keep talking about how much I like the devil ones the reason why everybody likes those so much is particularly because it gets tired like it's really clear for him it's hard like there's Parts where they they all get so exhausted that they have to take like five Sexes to catch their breath like what's really endearing about it is that it is such an uphill battle that he has to work really hard to claim that Victory but here it's effortless it's easy is that the point like oh isn't it cool how like effortless it is to beat all of these people I don't really find anything like particularly enthralling about watching this fight it's just a bunch of idiots flailing around while she's doing all of these weird Twirls and these strange like moves I don't get it I don't I don't know what the I don't know why this is really cool it was cool I guess like if you think that she's cool then this probably was a really fun scene I guess but you're supposed to come away with a sense of awe about what her capabilities how amazing she is it sets up everything that she can do in the future um the one that came to my mind when I was watching this the first time is sort of it's Morpheus training Neo in The Matrix and you have that bit where the Shipmates go around so you said morbius he's fighting you yeah it's moving time um they go around they go around and they say like Murphy's defining it is a really really big and impressive thing but the reason that that's a big and impressive thing is that there's actually two characters that you care about so when Morpheus is sort of digging himself up by showing his skills you're also learning something more about another very important character in Neo which gives you more to invest in if you're just having Galadriel besting a load of non-entities and people will never see again or people whose names we won't ever remember what is the point here it is just aggrandizing Galadriel that's the only purpose of this which the show has done non-stop anyway in every single one of her scenes so that makes it dramatically unnecessary I'm glad you brought up the Matrix because um like why is it so cool and and great when when at the end of the film Neo is is like deflecting all of agent Smith's like attacks with one hand why is that so cool it's like well this is like the culmination of a journey that he's had across the film of like getting more competent and getting better and better and so like that's a really cool payoff this isn't really a payoff this is like um I'm not really sure inexperienced trainees and she's like I'm so amazing she's rubbing their noses in it it's anything that's it it's not complementary at all because you're right like they've already established how amazing she is and so if anything this scene is just made to show you how buffoonishly incompetent the numenoreans are it's like oh that's what you want us to think about them well done because now that I just think they're complete idiots good good words let us can you imagine if you're a coach right the but you go first you go first can you imagine if you were coaching like a football team of five-year-olds and you were kicking the ball around them at speed and you were just this smug little like look how amazing I am and just create them all the time and until what often cries because of the way you're doing that's this so it's kind of like um in the South Park episode when Stan was coaching like the uh yeah the little league hockey team and then they go and play against like a professional hockey team and just get obliterated yeah it's kind of the vibe of this as well isn't it because she's there just like taunting them as she effortlessly defeats them they don't stand a chance it's a Trope in character writing if you want to make a character hateable you show them in this way you don't do it because you want people to like them but there's an old far show sketch with the hyper competitive dad who just takes every single sport against his kids massively seriously they'll play cricket and he beats them by 15 000 runs and he's just he's incredibly proud of himself for doing this but you're supposed to hate him you're not supposed to like him and that's exactly the like the feeling I get every time I see gladriel on screen it's just like I really really really cannot stand you and the show seems to love you so much and I don't understand why well to me it feels like this is you know wish fulfillment from the creators or someone because isn't there like a producer that looks a lot like glad you're where they just want uh you know uh pretend that they are so wonderful and they're better than everyone and they got it Survivor I guess there's some I've never really understood the appeal of that I've always I like I thought that we generally agreed that what often makes a character interesting is their flaws and the journey to sort of overcoming those flaws and becoming a better person struggling you know going to struggle yeah I mean struggle and adversity it's what makes the uh it's what makes the victory so cathartic it's it's um the uphill battle I mean we Underdog stories right rather than you're just fantastic at everything and nobody else stands a chance it's like what are we what are we here to see and I mean you know I guess in the case of galadril it can be it's like well yeah it's a fighter there's not much that she needs to develop on but it's more so her personal Journey but I mean I don't know what by the way I don't know what uh well then deal said the first one to score flesh you didn't score yes he scored he scored cotton I guess like close enough being a lieutenant is uh because Lieutenant is second a captain right is that isn't that the uh isn't it Captain Lieutenant uh I'm mixing up it's you're you're an officer like you're uh is one up from Sergeant then Lieutenant then Captain um I uh I'll just Wikipedia come on help me out I I I presume that it's the same in Middle Earth yeah so there's Captain then there's Lieutenant uh or first lieutenant and second lieutenant um oh wow yeah so you're basically second uh like you you're nearly a captain so you you are you're you make decisions like you know you make tactical decisions on the battlefield and he gets it because of the fact that he hit her oh when she was off guard she was fighting three other people like hmm like if anything the most important the most important thing when it comes to deciding who's going to be a lieutenant is their ability to command the people beneath them rather than their strict fighting capabilities like everyone's cheering of like he just did something really impressive and he got he got a cheap shot against the opponent who's just not facing you oh yeah you're right I'm pretty sure because I'd have to check in but she wasn't when he started the attack she wasn't facing him right he like doesn't flip around or whatever and it's while she's attacked I just yeah it's it's [ __ ] I think I'm being like unduly charitable to the writers I think the intended effect might have been to say well this is this is actually a way of encouraging Brotherhood amongst the nemenorians oh my God that guy has actually accomplished this and so this makes them look more kindly toward him it's establishing camaraderie between them but even that doesn't work from sort of the show's World building perspective because these people don't really have any reason to understand just exactly what beating Galadriel entails because they've been Turning Away Elven ships and they've never met any of them so it's not as big a deal as it should be for them to have that reaction to it um I like how they store this swords in the scabbers keep the blades open where people might run into a cut themselves and we this cabinets are right there just see them and put them away wait what is going on with this guy dagger yeah which way are my eyes [ __ ] with me what's going on here a sword behind the pillar oh it oh yeah sorry yeah [ __ ] my eyes are really [ __ ] with me for a second there I thought that was that's the dagger in full or something yeah okay I got you she'd never touch enough with a little dagger like that now anyway what I wanted to just I just saw it and it was I was fascinated by it because I remember because going through it nice and slow you get to see more stuff Moeller is getting old is true um when when whole brand is these super cool kick up the sword to grab it thing I was immediately thinking like yeah you wouldn't be able to do that if it was just on the floor right because there's no way a sword's hilt he's gonna push it up hard enough for you to fit a whole foot underneath it so like how is it that he manages to pull that off and then at first I was like oh is he just lucky the sword landed on what begins the steps up to the you know about the way there or something because that's just yeah that's nice and convenient for it but I was like I was even more absurd really they show you a like a split second of the floor look at that they designed a bit of stone to be that absolutely protruded in order to get his foot underneath oh you're right yeah that's pretty funny not gonna lie that's a terrible floor look it's all over the place dude that is a huge tripping hazard just how did the stone Mason [ __ ] that up so hard like places where that's all well took maybe it happened after he put it down it's we don't know how old it is who knows what could have happened maybe a root grew underneath there or maybe it was just [ __ ] attracted to the to the gravity black hole that is the Charisma of glass think that if it gets to that point you need to get it sorted out it's not a bad thing uh uh I guess they do bend a little bit right yeah they got flex but also in motion it looks like they can bend as well just because the perspective like I was looking at some slow motion footage of me cutting water bottles and while the sword is in motion this straight sword looks like it's curving nearly 90 degrees oh yeah that really got bad during one of those frames that was I don't know if it's because it is this it could be CGI for him to be able to be able to nail that move I can't believe he it's real and he okay this is an isolation so you could just practice it and tell you it's like Peter would exactly so you can just keep practicing it over and over here like a small like catching a sword spitting like that is no indication of actual sword skill in any measure as I was gonna ask about why they'll make your lieutenants they'll say if you can flip this sword up like Tony Hawk and catch it seriously you know rather than practical to show how basic it is in my review I go outside and just throw a sword and spin it in the air and catch it it's so freaking easy right but they're acting like wow you're a monster swordsman now this is so unnecessary because when it falls on the ground on a nicely protruded you know like a bit of like tiling you can kick it and then catch it in your hand because that's going to be real useful when you're in the middle of a massive battle Yeah there's lots of protruding rocks she even says like I don't think many blacksmith people can do that it's like no if if you're around swords all the time I guarantee it just figuring them around remember Will Turner and Pirates Caribbean he was obsessed with swords because he loved making them and practicing with them like the idea that is like Smiths they know anything about swords it's like yeah maybe yeah the only thing that's to do 24 hours a day seven days a week is smithing and nothing else they never just you know sort of play with the swords that's what I mean like a dude in their life it doesn't sound upset to me at all that they would test their own work to see how sharp or efficient it is and then just they would have some level of Sword player uh knowledge well it's because and she's goading him into accepting that he's more than the station he says that he wants but doing it in such a way that doesn't actually conform to the setup because the show doesn't understand would it just come across as patronizing because he just be like oh yes I have the oddly Smith have you even met a Smith before Galadriel you're too proud like would you ever lower yourself to see a Smith probably not um I guess well before we move on let's uh let's compare this scene with uh to remind ourselves of something good before a battle was going to happen at Helms Deep we had Aragorn who met uh a guy thing like Hamlet was his name I forget I was a young kid he's nervous you know and so he doesn't you know he doesn't show off he doesn't use this as an opportunity to show how amazing is and how how cool he is he offers reassuring words and he says you know you've got got something good here you know that don't you know don't worry we got this see he's very encouraging he's he's being a leader he's not trying to show off it's not about it's not about me me me aren't I amazing aren't I amazing funnily enough there was a meme created on the Lord of the Rings memes subreddit that had it was supposed to be Pro rings of power and it shows Aragon doing that with sword and then the sword is rings of power and he says this is a good show and everyone's like woohoo yay fun meme everyone's like wait you do understand in context what was happening in that moment right he was like trying to provide a sense of hope and reassurance to this kid who's got a sword that's not exactly fantastic it's not even close actually it's beating the [ __ ] up it's like super old but it's facing near certain death yes so that's that so it's just like did you mean for Your Meme to be as accurate as it is I don't think so but uh we call them happy accidents now off to farazon back to scheming I said to to rags after the scene it feels like uh when you watch House of the Dragon which is very much like trying to focus hard on political Intrigue when it comes to Fantasy show about different houses and interests and motivations and stuff this is like the McDonald's version where it's just this one guy who has like this very simplistic sort of point of view that we've only ever heard of like right now despite the being this many hours into the series um because like they do this thing where they start talking about things that are a little bit more complicated and he like looks around and everyone just leaves like he has that level of power and it's just like oh that probably would have been neat in like a good show like that he there's an understanding of farazone's influence you know but I say his name even from a sense of like I think it was wasn't it live stream uh when you were here a little platoon I kept asking what his name was because it took this long for me to remember it it's like you need like it's crazy to me that he's going to be this uh level of an important figure and this is pretty much the first scene where we get to understand something about his character um yeah that sucks he'll go on to be or he should go on to be like probably the pivotal character um and yet I mean even even this scene though is yes the first time we actually hear or see anything really about his character and his motives but even that sort of undercuts itself because you know the only reason he's telling his son all of this stuff is presumably because he views his son as some kind of protege um and it's not the first time that he's sort of shared information with his son in this way if you're a skilled and canny politician and you're trying to bring up your son to be a skilled and canny politician you will know what information to give him and what information not to give him because you should already know what he thinks and what his values are and Game of Thrones would have done this and House of the Dragons would have done this there's no reason for farazon not to know that his son doesn't agree with him about the war by this point but if he does know that then he has no reason to be telling him any of this information really and he should have done something about it before then because this just this almost presents it as though these characters who are father and son and are both supposedly either skilled or aspiring politicians have never met each other except for maybe one or two occasions in the last however long it's been and so all of this information which should already be known as coming as first time information to both of them or one of them at least it doesn't make any sense from a character perspective and it makes our our Zone even seem very naive to be trusting his son with this stuff given what his son then goes on to do which thousand should have known he would because it's his son and he's skillful at this it yeah no oh dude that you reminded me of um I'm not sure how many people even be aware of what I'm talking about here I'm not sure who's seen what but um Bruce Bolton was someone I actually like kind of vaguely enjoyed in terms of a mind in Westeros that was more invested in doing the absolute most pragmatic decisions to get power and like he knows how to manipulate people he knows where his station is and he'll always just he's climbing the ladder nice and slow but he's also a cruel bastard gets killed by his own son just like okay he was like hyper aware of his son's interests and his goals and there's even like an implication that he's like he's aware that he'll try and kill him and then he's just like he's just yeah he killed him he's like oh well that's not very satisfying it's just like I don't know why you set that up that way until that point he almost guards against that happening as well from what I remember which makes it just seem even more of an out of character move but that's what I'm saying the same Dynamic the same Dynamic should be in play here but isn't because this show it doesn't really it doesn't really understand what Game of Thrones is it just kind of likes that it happened and it's it's using sort of the most superficial aspects of construction That Game of Thrones deployed and it's just saying that we can do it too um it's no you can't this is like sports day for preschool kids compared to you know the Olympics in terms of the quality on show and the reason he's telling his son in the first place is I I got the feeling like you compartmentalize the idea stuff because he's like well you don't need to know this but when he starts to doubt it he tells him the information to convince him but then in the very next scene he's even heard the reasons he's heard the arguments you'd think that would be enough to get him on board and then just goes against it and doesn't actually seem to have a reason why except I'm doing this because of a girl correct yeah and this is insane because it's an act of terrorism he could like P he could have been killing people he uh he didn't really check how many people might have been on board the boat and it's insane that he went to that extreme where was that it's treason as well I mean where was the scene where farazon finds out that two of the ships are destroyed and then he goes to see his son and he's like so you just happen to be in the area when a huge sabotage happened on our our attempts to you know begin this war is that is that what were you doing there and then he goes I was fishing that's the official story and he's like fishing really one of them was fishing at no point do they explain why the sun's out there he actually gives an excuse for the person he's with but not himself that's what I'm saying like it's it's so stupid you've missed out because that's like that's like interesting to have farazon figure out his son was The Saboteur and then to actually talk to him about it but not you know you know let people know and kick his ass for it verbally but we didn't get it has a vested interest in using things like active terrorism to further his own position so again as a competent political sort of Nefarious type what you could have done to sort of to start teasing what he will become I imagine in later episodes and seasons is to look at you've had this act of terrorism he didn't necessarily plan for it but he's absolutely going to use it for his Advantage so you can take that as the opportunity to start locking up his political opponents for example or like anyone he knows might not be on his side but to do all of that though you'd probably have needed to actually build out numenor to have other characters that we would recognize as being imprisoned the main overarching problem with numenor is it's it's an empty City it's a shallow place it looks very pretty there's maybe two people in it who have character and there's a couple of other people who are only there because they need to be for the plot to happen but there's no actual it wouldn't matter if pharazon actually did a politically Savvy thing like capitalizing on an act of treachery because what's the consequence on a character level we don't know anyone um it's it's the problem it's been building up this problem for such a long time by not spending any time or effort building out the actual City it's supposed to you know be telling us it's so important it's it's like so many missed opportunities but that's one of the big ones yeah imagine he learns about his son and he gives up his son in order to Curry political favor with people like he considers that more important or just on side by arresting say I don't know well this probably wouldn't work but just spitballing a sealed of sister who his son likes and his son goes and confronts him about it and he says otherwise that would have been you yeah and so these are the lengths to which you have to go and the sacrifices you will have to make I'm getting you off this time and I will not do it again and then he's not seen as being sort of taken aback by it which he ends up being he just sort of panics or seems to panic and the one scene we get after the explosion when he says oh maybe we should actually call Off The Invasion after all which he himself called for in to begin with so yeah and a sabotage wouldn't at all change his mind find when the reasoning is as he's explained in this scene it's also confusingly [ __ ] after they they do something that I appreciate right telling us his motivation like finally thank you and then everything else that follows you like wait what I don't understand you get like one second of continuity that it all just gets [ __ ] yeah they tried to insinuate that because that happened it meant that the like he'd misjudged the people and he'd actually lost control of him and so he wanted to stay and solidify power before yes if he had even half the brain cells that they're trying to argue he does he would have figured out immediately it was his son his son happened to be this and even if he didn't everyone else would have done yeah no I think a saboteur did it was like well was anyone there well these two people swam out the ocean okay it's one of them so one of them by the way who's frustrated that he didn't get the role he wanted in this war it's like both of them have a motive to do that two people who were there and yet the line that's delivered is is it just we suspect that the moment it might have been a passing brigand I think everyone's just moves on it's insane that they just someone made that up guys that guy just walked in and he was a dick and he exploded half our Fleet and that's bad but moving on what what passing brick surely the question to ask then is wait a minute there are brigands around and they've actually isn't this an important thing to know that we should be for stalling ourselves against but apparently not that's just because the show couldn't be asked okay as we said in chat the sea is always right simple as that so if your boat explodes then there's a little wave that just went up into the into the boat and was like I don't like this lamp here I prefer it in the oil yeah she always gets what it wants what a stupid like that's [ __ ] even that if you give them the the most generous of interpretations I think the return they're talking about one of the Velar which is sort of the god of the oceans I think it's where it comes from but they never explain any of this and so it just comes across as a crazy comments yeah it sounds like a culty comment with it just like anything that happens in the sea was was the correct thing even if it involves [ __ ] drowning people or destroying ships just like that's uh interesting POV like you can use it to justify whatever the hell you want if you're anything you want to see if it happens like you know I attack this boat and I killed everyone bored but the sea let happened therefore I'm Justified yeah I guarantee you go ahead that the first thing that the showrunners will do if you brought up the whole well gladriel jumped into the ocean that would have like been complete suicide just doing that because there's no way she would but well you know the developer of the sea actually pushed her and the boats together because he knows that's what's needed and then he also made the numenorians meet them at the same time when you go in that I think that's why they can keep pushing this whole there's a greater power at work because it literally gives you an excuse for everything no matter what the problem is no matter how stupid it is it's always a fallback excuse of well it needed to happen and so they made it happen I actually made this point quite early on I think in the video I did on episodes one and two that Almo is the Valor of the sea I think and um but like uniquely of all of The Valor he's very involved in the events of Middle Earth even into like the second age where most of them have retreated and I I used it so in the context of yeah her jumping off but also in the raft exploration because it's a way of tying it into the grander universe that the show wants us to believe exists because it does keep referencing these characters it keeps referencing these Concepts it keeps telling us the Valor exists and they have uh they have will and they have a degree of agency and probable probably at least all these they should be invoking them much more heavily when it does come to something like the destruction of numerals so like that's your opportunity to start actually tying these things together tying the sea is always right to omo because that's where he comes from he's uniquely involved in the events of has very he has great sort of determinative capacity so that's when you would do it but the show hasn't tied any of these things together it just name drops them I think as we said earlier just to trick some people into thinking it respects the law more than it does but it doesn't marry them so they almost operate independently of each other which then creates nonsense like this is always right and then later when we hear other things that happened in the sea and certain notable people who die in it well okay but the sea was always right so we can't regret that can't we yeah I think it's literally to create as I've said that an army of people who use the vagueness of the story which is there deliberately to generate just excuses of oh you just don't comprehend you can't comprehend this you just don't know enough but if you're as big brained as I was then you'd know that actually this story is really deep and complex uh and it aims to just shut people up by that kind of base attack yeah so another reason so he he makes clear it's about getting the uh the oars Forest trading tribute from the new sort of like Kingdom that will be built on top of the uh ruler being added for the men in the Southlands right that's what barazon's like we'll have a great part of this is a great reason to do all this they'll owe us that's that's his whole reasoning and this is why I feel like it's completely limited as a political move compared to better shows or better writing it's like what is farazon's understanding of the population over there what does he know about them how many there are and their likelihood of even surviving how splintered they are this guy and whether or not he can lead them and unite them do you know anything about this does he know what resources they even have access to as a as a vague group do you know anything about anything over there or is he just like no if we help them they'll be loyal to us which is not that question because that question's very inconvenient because if he does already know this stuff then why has he not already advocated going and setting up trading places in Middle Earth which he should have done anyway because in the law he did like numenora is intimately involved in in Middle Earth but yeah like if he asks any of those questions then he would already have done the thing he's now decided he will do belatedly having opposed it for virtually the opposite reasons until this point uh um I would like to go and fetch a drink really quick but uh oh Crags if you're here wine or lamp oil why not both I can make a fireworks displays you can see light on fire yeah it's a I mean all that happens next is that uh the king is like don't go daughter Queen region it'll be dark over there and she's like oh okay oh this thing I know it's a really small scene this one irritated me because it's a really really good example of the show's approach to dialogue like it does nothing with it until it has to do something portentous to move the plot along so like she goes to speak to vegetable King over here and then she's like oh it's good news we're going because you know we had the vision and this is going to save numenor but now it's time for us to get very serious again so he just says if you go you will find darkness and then but okay so one of the things it hasn't done is really explain or show whether he's been driven to this state by his Visions through the palantrum read that they have that would have been a useful thing to have set up because it explains its current condition but it might also explain why he knows the things that he seems here to know but then also she doesn't ask any questions about it because if he has been seeing visions through the planetary just as she has and he's Come Away with this interpretation this should cause her to stop yeah you're right like that would be a massive red flag for her but she's like oh you're you're okay you're fine it's fine it's okay whatever and then it also contradicts what the show has been trying to say what the greater you know will is to save numenor because the the pedals of the tree was indicating go go off to sales help them and now the father he has the Visions is like no you'll find diamonds and evil it's like all right then what is the show trying to tell us now it's you have no idea I don't know that the show even knows what I was trying to you know like I don't know what the what I meant to make of all this this whole plot line is it seems to be just the most I don't know is it it might uh it's tough to well I mean it's uh something that became really I think it was when in episode six we didn't see the hobbits again it's like we we are not moving very far at all given how balancing on our plots it feels uh we're definitely not balancing them because some plots seem like pretty obviously integral to the story and then there are other ones that are just sort of um sort of Meandering about elsewhere I'm just I'm persistently baffled by how much time gets wasted in this show for what for what at this point we're up to like five hours how much has really been achieved and how much that could have been achieved in in two with more expeditious writing yeah what has been achieved is founded on complete stupidity like oh yeah the mark of Sauron is really a map and we had it here the whole time and now I'm bloody bothered to read and all this guy the plot that has been you know moved forward is just nonsense and it is and I think um it especially by episode six that I think um generally it seems to be a mark of a weak story when it's it's tied together by like like um knitting string or something like really thin like an incredibly thin tenuous connection between two part you know two pieces of the broader story and like the longer the hobbits and the harfits and the newer stuff I mean the clearest example to me would be not checking the rag to see that the hill to besord but we'll get to that but like um you know these incredible coincidences because I mean think about this whole plot kicked off because when galaduro jumped out of the boat she bumped into another boat in the middle of a massive ocean and then they got bumped into by the numenorians and then that's led to everything that's happened here like it's incredibly tenuous everything that's built on it and then it gets further propelled by characters making these really bizarre stupid decisions not really talking to each other um it's uh it's it's so weak entire story she only ever moves from place to place because of the contrivance like every single aspect of it is contrived and she finds the northern Fortress where she happens to find the mark of Sauron that she saw she goes back and she happens to get told she's going back to valinor so she goes on the ship and she just decides randomly she happens to decide what the symbol means it happens to decide to jump into the ocean happens to decide what happens to be a raft that picks her up happens speaker two loose gay fish happens to be numenorian ship happens to be conversation with a lentil in numenor that sends her to a library where they happen to have the piece of information make sense of the symbol where they happen to have the map which makes sense of the symbol where they happen to go back and get into an argument again it's just the entire thing is just and this is sort of it's a double problem when you when you're writing a thing like this because if you are wasting so much of your time doing nothing for large periods then you don't have enough time to actually build out these events to make them seem less contrived because you can you can sort of modify the effects of can driving answers if you want to you can pad things around them that make them seem at least a little bit more explicable but if you're saving it to the last 10 minutes of every hour-long episode to actually progress anything that the plot needs to happen then of course you're going to have to rush things and it's it just it actually it's getting worse as this show goes on I mean episode six will be the the sort of the media so far but I'm sure episode seven will be worse well I think um what what you've highlighted is essentially there is an absence of clear causality that's propelling the plot it's Trey Parker Matt starring the you know but therefore instead of and and then and then and then and then and then which is kind of what this story is yeah you do not get a strong sense of one thing leads to this thing leads to this thing that it's all connected in some way yeah as you were saying about Galadriel coming out of that boat jumping out into finding that rafts like all of that has led to the rescue of the the Southlands oh well rescue it first which we assume is not her plan from the start so it's just oh I guess I'm here I'll have them fight the for the I guess she didn't even meet uh the whole brand then so her her mission was to go back to Middle Earth yeah I suppose what was it what exactly was her plan she wanted to jump back on because she she thought her fight hadn't finished so she was going to jump and swim thousands of miles back without being killed yeah it's another contrivance which is that she happens to bump into the raft which happens to have the guy on it who happens to be from the Southlands who happens to relay the information she needs to know that that's where the Orcs are the Mist clears ten seconds after she's there all of this doesn't happen but that's writing yeah her whole motivation is I want to find Sauron I want to kill Orcs yeah and luckily for her who she bumped into happens to fulfill that goal kind of nuts and uh makes for incredibly satisfying storytelling right guys yeah I'm so glad that was your original plan that is your original plan she knew she'd get picked up no no no her original plan was to go back to land and start hunting Orcs And Sauron again what we're saying yeah whatever it doesn't matter right she's crazy but uh I guess yeah what well she might gone back to gilgal hadn't been like listen I've thought about it and I have my armor back also some men also just let me go we'll get to that I'm not sure she would no she might not do it she might literally just wander around Middle Earth asking if anyone knows where Sauron is well in this same episode she says that they couldn't uh perceive a difference between they sent me away I was betrayed by them they sent me away because they couldn't differentiate me from the evil I was hunting so I think she's accepted at this point they can't stand her and she's not gonna get anything from her so I think she'd literally just go off on her own glad I was like you know this keeps happening with all the people that I try and hang out with it's like hmm have you ever considered this an X Factor there galadrian she's like yeah Sauron you're like right it's everybody else not me um so we're back with uh the harfords and Gandalf not Gandalf is like healing quote unquote his hand I don't [ __ ] know what he's doing he's freezing water with his hand in a little pool and then Nori is like wow you're freezing your hand I better grab it um yeah like you'd assume if there's a mage next to you that he would understand what he's doing with the magic he went off on his own to be away from everybody so he couldn't injure anybody and she comes along inserts herself touches his arm and then afterwards when there's a backlash blames him for it and the actors even said themselves oh this is where she realizes that actually he might be evil and she assumed he was good but no this shows that actually he's bad after all it's like no this is your problem your fault and you did all of the wrong things and now you're blaming him for it dude that is what this seems meant to show that he could be evil look in the middle of cutting down a tree and someone just jumps in the way of the ax and they're like wow you're evil yeah if you ever want this show to get even worse the the deadline breakdowns at the end make everything even more of a disastrous of just the actors talking about it I can imagine somehow at this point it's like a 95 guarantee that uh that the ACT is talking about the thing will make it worse not better it's a very odd way to heal a hand as well like like yeah I agree I agree I don't intuitly connect freezing your hand to Healing uh what's this I think it's more than anything refreshing power of of spearmint like when he came down his fire was cold and so this is cold so I imagine that's like the element of and what this strength or something what was she doing it doesn't even look like she's trying to drag him out of the water which by the way horrible idea because you'll just rip off his arm if if you understand this time as was said it's just like this is a crazy Magic Man from space let him do his thing woman what are you doing let the Magic Man cast his spell he clearly knows what he's doing he's calm and he's saying the magic words keep your hands off it was so unfortunate because once again the show was like yes Nori is indeed dead and we were like oh okay and then she wasn't yes triumphantly it was Magic Ice which means it's not a cold it's just nothing a joke during this entire scene she's got a second arm that she does absolutely nothing I'd be like smacking him in the face without like wake up you stupid like no no I'm just gonna stand here and pull gently it's like it's dead the way the scene runs it's like it's just yeah that's not an arm that you can do oh there it goes she's maybe now using it oh maybe yeah she eventually grabs her old arm with the arm but I'd be like if you're trying to wake him up like slap him or do something this is my new arm that was my old arm I want to play with you anymore who knows if it's a real arm at this point oh they should yeah see they do flashes of his fiery Landing they really are like hey audience you know you thought Ada was Sauron what if it's the wizard man and then they're gonna be like turns out it wasn't either yeah she said this is like her realization that he's in some kind of trance-like state he doesn't care about her and he's not in control of himself that's what you're supposed to get from this and doing that more often I think there's a couple of characters gladwell's another one of those where they're going to sort of play around with the the flirtation with Darkness sort of aspect with it and if he's just arrived and is not in full control either of his language or his brain or his magic he is of the same order of being as Sauron is um power corrupts is a fairly simple narrative device you can use and they will claim that that's what Tolkien wanted as well so you can sort of flirt with the idea of Steve here becoming you know well maybe maybe he'll turn evil even if he isn't Sauron he maybe he has things to learn about what being good actually entails um and you you could do interesting things with that it's just that I think they're only doing this again because they want to keep the mystery alive is he in fact Saron no he's almost certainly not but yeah which we have to run with it because they thought they had that really good idea and that's their only one they've got yeah it's like if you take the language thing that um he didn't understand language until she was saying the words but then the concepts that she intended came across into to his mind you could do an almost kind of imprinting stage nature nurture that he came down as a blank slate and his first experiences are what would make him into the person he was they could do that but I I don't I don't think they have the talent I don't think they even intend to do that it's always interesting because the ones like sitting here and saying well they could do this this might be good this might be quite a clever thing to do it almost guarantees they will not do it because that requires it out I always felt it's an indication that we were never any of us in a position of we will hate this no matter what it's like we keep like so why don't you had all your things you needed to do this why didn't you do that I would have liked that but bad it's poorly made very I think they start with an end goal and try and reach it rather than start with an interesting idea and see how it plays out yeah I forgot to characterize people how do you do that you do that when you're doing it when you focus on other things um so yeah I kind of I find it annoying that that's where this scene is going then that she's gonna be like oh my God you're probably possibly evil when she has no reason to assume that at all when he's clearly wants to say like if you thought for even a second like he must be evil because that was an attempt to hurt me or something just like so why didn't he just like why would you even he's clearly like what's going on this method of hurting you was to put his hand in some water then turn it into ice and hope you would grab his hand and then also have the hand turn into eyes he literally leaves you because he knows what he said he might be dangerous this show is so [ __ ] that's just crack here I apologize what he approaches it if we get that scene like next episode she's like I don't trust you anymore you you hit me remember then by the finale and she's like actually what you did was an accident oh like that they're gonna treat that as like a three episode Arc or some [ __ ] yeah because she said that he was good and then maybe he wasn't maybe you're not good oh you could just see one of the rides be like this is what we call character writing oh yeah you could almost imagine in the writer's room we they wrote this down on the Whiteboard he smiled I think that's about how smart it was a lot of people wonder how we do this well I can see that it does why do you think that's the voice that the Riders have more why is this a random voice random voice plucked from The Ether of voiceness but I I'm almost sitting that's the one 100 actually yeah off she runs now we're over to the woven elves storyline which we haven't touched in a while last we saw them was uh when he was like keep my oath [ __ ] right was that the last thing from the last time I had a terrible secret yeah have a piece of it and my God that gets developed real good and I can't wait to talk about some of the cope that was on Twitter from this one uh so yeah we open with like hey Duran uh from gilgalat he's like so why are you uh why are you digging so deep lately what's that about seems a little weird seems a little unusual what's going on there things like oh yeah well why are the elves expanding so much you guys don't usually do that so fast what's going on there I was like hmm and then uh elrond like interrupts him from saying [ __ ] this show was very impressed with itself for getting close to saying the word [ __ ] which I was like isn't aren't they allowed to say that I guess they're trying to keep it eyebrow oh that could be anything there are no news not anymore baby he oh he pretty much did say it just Arrow got in the way uh yeah I know it's basically you're saying it and also beforehand just to point out the horrible dialogue right um the king gilgalat he says jiren I should like to commend you but then he doesn't go on to commend him and he just ends up asking a question it's like do they not understand what they're saying in their own dialogue that they just jump from concept to concept without connection it's so frustrating this writing well that's kind of what I'm getting like like doing then goes on his table round and uh before we talk about that it was like playing on me like we got two questions that were asked there nobody nobody's gonna no but this scene does indeed end without any reference back to those two questions being asked yeah but one of them that's why the table was mentioned it is meant to be like emotional blackmail of the table like look you're offending me and so he puts them this is their you know political Intrigue moment that he's completely outplayed them by making them feel guilty so they forget the question that was asked well he had a question too that he I guess he didn't care for the answer for we've moved on I guess we're not going to answer either the size questions because of this table thing which I have some criticisms of this whole table thing this might be the one time in the episode where we jump forward while addressing this because we need that one extra bit of information okay we do we do yep so for those who have no idea what we're talking about urine is like this table is made of stone that is so rare that whenever we find it us dwarves we only ever use it for tombs and uh monuments like it's very safe and it grows he says like it grows deep or only grows at certain elevations yeah certain depths so if he's correct if that's true he's implying that they must have grave robbed is the impression I got I know that's the impression I got as well he's like well you know this stuff only grows in the places the dwarves are essentially so if you guys have it goodness suspiciously uniquely difficult to steal gravestones from because you have to get into their minds to find it so that was actually something I was thinking about afterwards for this yearbook so I was just like how do you even it's not like they just pitched on some hills and left alone it's like stealing from 12 is going to be real tough uh is it easier or harder than stealing a dragon egg oh I don't even yeah okay depends on the Dragon I suppose so I suppose so um but yeah uh I guess conclusion one if this is true and gilgal ads is entertaining it as true and knows it's true and is apologizing then that just makes the elves [ __ ] like that's the that's one line of interpretation or conclusion I guess to make because nothing's really confirmed in that regard but we already know the elves are [ __ ] but yeah they all kind of twice it would just be like to know that as a truth it's like yeah we grave Rob sometimes in order to take Stone we like it's like rough man but lucky duren's taking this so well if that's true okay yeah second interpretation is that gilglad does not know whether or not that's true he has no idea where this stone is from and so he's just saying like man that that sucks I'm sorry about that you can you can have the table which I think is the likely one that the writers want us to feel is the case he has no idea where this table's from he's willing to concede to do her into that's the case a little bit a little bit spineless I think from gilgalad which is how he's been characterized so fast or whatever but just to be like is that the case yeah he knows nothing about where this table came from you can't find out where it came from he's just going to concede immediately that they did something pretty horrible uh because yeah that's the thing this guy is how many thousands of years old he was probably around when they got the table he probably knows exactly where they got it I was there and The Rock was formed and the crust of the Earth is actually old enough to have seen the world become round actually he's like he's that old he's there let me tell you things changed I'm sorry when we find out the actual you know truth about this table ruins everything because that means okay where did the table actually come from it's much more likely that Gil galad knows where it comes from and that this you know little trick during his playing wouldn't work at all uh yeah when he asked the question do you know where this comes from it was a massive Bluff and girl God because he's got yeah the market down the road and because it just turns out to be a piece of rock so it didn't even really make sense to play that way in the first place the the least they could have done is gone well it's a rare rock that we know you can't get access to yeah um because that is the bonus piece of information right we find out later this this isn't at all what Duran said it is it for all we know it's just a random [ __ ] rock that can be found in many places in which case what a Gamble from durian because if they knew he was lying that really looks bad for him that he would have like guilted all these people on this on a subject it's pretty sensitive and very serious to accuse like the elves of grave robbing dwarves yeah and what essentially is a diplomatic meeting too yep and why did he do this because he's I don't know he felt pretty smug about it when El Ron points I was like oh you lied didn't you and he's like yep because he just wanted to screw with them and no he was to hide the mithril but that turned like in literally three minutes later it turns completely pointless so the entire scene was redundant I mean you say hide the mithril as if it was so hard to say like why are you mining so deep it's like well said we like gold you [ __ ] what do you think mining is it's what we do the culture Shameless daddy makes up this huge lie that could have cost him a [ __ ] ton more I thought it was really yeah absolutely it's it's a really ball it is not a safe flight at all this is a ballsy lie to talk about the table this way and essentially insinuating that it was stolen from them when you have no idea what this table is from really how the elves got it how long they've had it you don't know that's a ballsy lie hey you're like one of those you're like one of those pastors who predicts the end of the world you know he's like you know what I appreciate the audacity of you to make a prediction that the world will end on a particular date that you're staking a lot you're staking a lot on this one uh this one guess of yours I in a way I kind of respect that the 2012 kind of sorry Clark the people the people who said about 2012 right there's a [ __ ] ton of them and then they were like oh well maybe next time well do I guess how many of you remember Y2K I was alive then yeah yeah this also implies the dwarves or during is basically trying to claim all ownership of a type of rock that anyone could really find if they dig deep enough or anything like that and what if the elves just found it that he was like you know we like this Stone too you're saying you we can't get the stone if we can find it ourselves the dwarf suddenly own this type of Rocket no one else is allowed to touch it yeah unless durian was about to double down and be like it's only found in our minds yeah wow I don't know wow I didn't know that it's a special yeah it's a terrible lie if you're gonna give lying lessons this is not how you lie you have a you have a lot to lose and you have a table to gain potentially if everything works out perfectly you get a table so next scene this one's particularly frustrating too you know I I do this a lot I've said it but um this opens with basically Gill gladby and like you've been lying to me alaron then everyone's like no you've been lying to me King and I was like uh hey everybody what am I dealing with now what is this basically um this is line Airline delivers here actually I hope I can get the subtitle for it because it was [ __ ] blew my mind elrond is annoyed at the king because he claims that uh he went to Duran in like Aid of friendship meanwhile you King like like your goal was for sending me there was there was it was much more tangible it was referring to the ore and I'm just like did this show forget what happened in episode one and two you wonder if they legitimately forgot the entire like behind the scenes job of elrond during that whole Duran elrond plot it see it it legit seems like they just forgot yeah because the only thing that links in from gilgalad and Keller brimble is one line that said no Jordan's been a bit suspicious recently it's like he's avoiding me and that entire thing was their master plan to get Aaron to discover mithril it was the it means they had to have known about mithril before even said to him well yeah but they didn't imagine yeah it turns out he kind of they did know about it before sending him oh yeah they definitely knew about it in a general sense we'll get to that because that's very soon from here but what I'm getting at is the elrond is like man we need to we need to build this thing faster huh how do we do it then I was like well have you tried dwarves and then Keller brimble's like huh he's like now recounting the story as though it's not true that he went to the dwarves himself with a proposition he's changed the story to I went to them with friendship advice that you were there for the ore like no neither of those things are true get Workers you liar he's so full of crap elrond each I could I just like I legit was curious if they've forgotten so yeah this was a secret master plan right from the start that they knew exactly every single move Al wandra's gonna make and so manipulated him really so yeah I think that's what they're going for so from the start they only sent him there to reconnect so they could send him back and get him to discover mithril but they didn't even what if elrond just didn't suggest the dwarves he was like well we could you know get some other ills from up there and help them out we could get this done it's also I mean it's not just the mithril they need because they do genuinely need the workers to build the forge of irregion which you then see being built but it's I guess it seems like it's unintentionally making our I think it's having elron tells more lies than it realizes it's having him tell because so you've got this one but then you know of course he gets to see jiren and he tells jiren that he's there because 20 years is too long to be away even for an elf and then he comes back here and then the meeting after this one he'll say I lied I I didn't come for friendship I came for ambition but the ambition was other people's but he but Durant already knows that they had a plan and that they needed to build the fortune that they needed workers to do that because that's the deal he presented to him over dinner so elrand is sort of I came for I came for friendship but also for workers but I didn't actually mean it when I said that I came either for friendship or for workers I came for the other thing depending on what the requirements of this specific scene happened to be and it makes no sense I think maybe elrond is just shockingly easy to manipulate but he manipulates other people he manipulates durian multiple times every times you're in pushes back on anything I'm your friend that's the thing it's like oh the manipulator is easily manipulated it's it's not at all what they were going for but I mean if you're a bad writer you are you're given results that you're not intending to you know it's safe to say all the irony in this show is unintended definitely yeah with a proposal of friendship while you were there for the ore just like you don't remember what happened around you're making this [ __ ] up you were you were you were there for it was never about friendship it was never there it was so awful it turned up with building a tower he was trying to bank on his friendship to get the proposal in place and then he realized oh I guess I have been away from a few decades and you've taken that personally good thing diesel was there to really smooth things along shockingly well um or else this wouldn't have happened at all so um this felt like such a non-sequita to me when he explains his issue with the King and how he feels he's Allied the king just goes hmm okay have you heard of The High Elves recites a story for me now when he says are you familiar with the song of the roots of I think it's a field gear or something like that oh God it could be anything I just started laughing because it sounds like such a like you tell someone your big issue with them that you sit down there's a bit of size and then just have you heard of blah blah blah no we're not we're not doing whatever that is okay we're talking about something very specific right now um but hey I mean why not right let's tell a story oh this is so [ __ ] weird I thought that maybe this would be directly from toky's writing so that I'd have to take the hard stance of being like this seems pretty [ __ ] not gonna lie no it's completely invented and it is still that [ __ ] so it's it's oh God the short version is there was like an Elven Knight and a balrog and they were right next to a tree and they The Ellen Knight put all of his good into the tree the balrog could have was evil to the tree wait the the tree had a hidden silmaril deep inside it uh there's just another summer suddenly and the silver really significant as they're the you know origin of the silmarillion um and stuff or that's why the book is named after him and they cause so many issues and everything and now they're just saying oh yeah there's another one sure okay yep um and because why does the balrog not just hit the elf all right yeah I don't you don't understand it's a general concept of some sort of a struggle between two opposing forces it's not like a literal I [ __ ] hope so right I hope so it's literal it is literal though yeah that's definitely what is happening is it's super metaphorical are you sure you know you know how elves are with their stories they don't get boggled in the nitty-gritty of tactics and strategy because if we describe the events of this show you'd be like that must be metaphor that's a very expensive metaphor I bet you're being sarcastic with the context of the show is that this is the literal explanation of mithril and mythical only exist if this story is real the mithril is also it's metaphor magic of course so there's good evil evil real lightning still morale and then a lightning strike hits the tree and that makes mithril a thing oh God seriously I was like I'm gonna begin to understand this holy crap they they managed to ruin myth through mithril now has evil components in it because the king's explanation of the ore is that it is as pure and light as good and strong and unyielding as evil it's awful dude because because good is not strong or unyielding no exactly it was the king to think evil is stronger than yielding he's like oh okay he's a villain yeah other questions now that you've said that I wish to explore your perspective on something it is so remarkable how much this [ __ ] up in past present and future at the same time in the space of about 30 seconds because like if it's supposed to tie into the Lord of the Rings films that means that Frodo who has the mithril vest is literally wearing the light of the silmarils in which case no one can actually touch him or get anywhere near him because the light of the film rules basically Burns Orcs to death so no one can touch him well it's diluted by all of the strongest and walk out in Moonlight right because it's not like it's sunlight but it's bouncing off something they dipped it in there really thick oily wine and now it doesn't shine as much the shirt it does it screws everybody because for all three movies there is so much like magic light in mithril that it can save the elves who are now suddenly all about to die because the tree has this is the thing about the and then plot I'd have no idea about oh our souls will wither to nothing because the light of the Val are we need these rocks in this ore that came from this tree that got struck by lightning in this fight against good and evil and that there's a silmaril somewhere involved and I'm I'm just like what the [ __ ] is happening there's a show continuity no one still knows what the silmarils are so like that makes no sense you know just from within the show's Universe well uh the celebram board does he mentioned them oh no what I'm saying is that the the show doesn't the show has not set up for the audience what film reels are so like people there know they exist but the show hasn't explained what they are why they matter what their importance is um they're sort of retroactively being thrown in here as well they have the light of the Valor in them and well the the light of the Valor is leaving the elves and so we need to get the mithril because that has the light of the film rules in it to save ourselves um which is no there's definitely like explain what that is or is it just supposed to be like oh that's a thing that they need they need the light of the Valar yeah it's one of those things that it's it's claiming it's throwing it in as a name in order again to trick people into thinking that it respects the law more than it does like the elves have the light of the Valor in them at this point in history that the light of the Valor very slowly and gradually leaves them and that's what you see the elves in the Peter Jackson films have sort of come to the end of their time in Middle Earth because the light of the the life of the officers faded and they will have to leave and go back to valinor because they've been allowed back in to to live essentially unless they choose to sacrifice their immortality as this uh art anything does um so that that sort of it's the background kind of to that but it's a perverted form of the background to that because that's that's complete horseshit like none of this works it doesn't make any sense because they okay let's say let's take the show's explanation of it mithril has the light of the Valor in them because it has the light of the silmarill in it not that the show is established that the silmarils have the light of the Valor in them really why not how much material does it take then I mean does can elbron just give his little piece of mithril to people oh he's gone all right well enough of that it did say saturate in the light but the thing I was wondering do you think this is like a rights issue due to the fact that they actually can't say anything about the silver reels or what happened or any legitimate thing because it's in the similar earlier in which they don't own so they had to make up just a BS fake reason to put them in so that they could then describe them in their sort of fake new mythology because then they're not breaking the rights they were definitely proud of this I thought this was really cool um but hang on what were you saying before you disconnected sorry yeah um so if you need more nithril than just the piece that elrond has could you not just say to the dwarves hey look we're dying can we just come and you know just do a pilgrimage to your cave go through it for a bit and then we're fine again um by tying the light of the elves to the mithril in this way it invites all of these really basic mechanical questions that the show won't be interested in answering the way I think it's going is that they'll say well the elves need to forge the rings of power because the Rings have mithril in them and they will use the Rings as the way to stop the elves from dying and that'll really go with it which is oh my goodness that's my read of it so far ah because it's so it seems so arbitrary that suddenly uh what episode five or something all the elves are dying because a tree has fungus growing on it I was like where did that come from what hey Google but it was the connection why does like scum on a tree mean the elves are now yeah because it's not it's well it's not even as if the light is fading like it was a a product that was being used up because they thought it was war that was causing it so it was almost like an evil influence can destroy their light rather than them using it up as they kind of live but to the mithril he did say we need you to with mine as much as possible because we have to saturate every single elf yes so that implies you could need a lot like you're gonna have to mine all of it never mind that the interesting question as to how you saturate people in stone but you know because the light from the stone is it in a room um yes it's just it but that's the point then why not just go on a pilgrimage and walk through the caves just open up a cave walk through it yeah you're fine yeah why not it's all fine and then the other thing is okay well they know that their light is fading and that means they will die however it's established in this show that they can just choose to go back to valinor anytime they want and valinor still has its own light there so why don't they just say well [ __ ] it then we're leaving and we're going back to valinor the king can determine that the king's Central back in the last episode so none of this makes any sense and the show hasn't thought it through but that reason there is also why durian's um decision to help makes no sense at all because when it's given the proposition and it's that the elves who are annoying little know-it-all you know idiots right it's like this will force them to leave Middle Earth and it's all there for the humans and dwarves you can have it all that would be like I thought turn would be like that's a great thing all right sweet off you go see you later it proved all of his theories right that they were only in it for the audience exactly and so three his reason to helping out not even there in actual fact he could be insulted enough to not help and on top of that say they couldn't even go back to valinor right it's not like they're suddenly going to be wiped out it just means they lose their immortality and From jiren's perspective I thought he would think like oh so that just makes them on an even playing field to everyone else and makes him actually fair I I think he'd be okay with that as well they can still have babies in their race continue and everything it just means that they're not even Immortal anymore and everyone's that's going to be useful to the dwarf the dwarfs can demand anything in return first well see durian was ruined for that but I'm hoping his dad will you know put more of a fight on this one yeah um in character does say to our runs that if we leave every other race will fall to evil essentially which is supposed to be during's motivation although I'm not sure he's ever told about that but I would think that during and everyone they're not going to believe that what we know to just survive oh who who do you think you are kind of thing these Americans one of the things that's like I'm pretty sure you're trying to steal this thing for me and they're like nope I'm just here as a friend by the way can I have that thing you're like no they go oh no don't give it to me the world will die you're like oh really oh my goodness I better give it to you then I don't want the world to die hmm why didn't he tell me this from the beginning so there's there's too much of it to sort of really go into but I mean anyone who is is interested go into the silmarillion and I think it's basically about chapter six onwards um is the alternative to this so essentially from chapter six onward of the cell Meridian contains all of the content all of the material all of these epic epic stories um and the sacrifices and the betrayals and and the rich myth and World building that this show has just replaced with there was a tree and there was some lightning Ergo mithril Ergo cool just go and read that bit or listen to it on Audible as a really good version and just see like sort of the extent of the desecration that this redone version actually amounts to because you're basically getting rid of the equivalent of Romeo and Juliet with vampires werewolves Satan balrogs demons um collapsing cities massive betrayals three no two further kinslings evolves against elves the murder of Elvis King by dwarves the massacre of dwarves by elves all of this has been reduced to lightning tree mithril um which is why sort of people who kind of like talking get quite pissed off about this kind of thing do people who like oxygen get pissed off by this sort of thing oh yeah not not carrying all the reasons other reasons to be pissed off by this kind of thing back to the books back to the books back to the books that is apparently their uh slogan without the entire thing um it was really annoying is he basically just says mithril but without saying it and then elron's like hmm so durin was right which is like probably shouldn't have said that mate like because you're already employed around this is really dumb but it's okay all right we're gonna give him a chance like he he was too rash he can still rescue it and be like oh dear him was just right that you guys yeah clearly have an ulterior motive that's all yeah does Duran have this thing I'll never tell you where it is like what what what no don't say that so he was okay for a moment there and then gilgalaz says you know like so you admit it there is an or that elrad's response here could just be like huh no I'm saying that durian was right that you guys are after something instead he says I only admit that I have a secret but I'll keep it not a good idea you could have just this is Wong in uh yeah pretty much you've already you've you've said too much already you've you [ __ ] it up I just like I hate it and it's like yeah well it gets the door open doesn't it and now the Secret's gonna come tumbling out soon enough yep and then uh and then something funny happens that happens in these shows every once in a while where the king's all upset he just wanders off then everyone's following him and it's because he wants to tell him about this goo tree it's like why don't you why don't you like act like real people where everyone will be like hello what's happening where are we going you're just walking real slowly to this tree I hate that I hate that in conversations when one of the characters leaves and you don't know if I'm supposed to follow you or is our conversation over are you I are you mad at me are we are we not friends now what if you're glad turned around and elron wasn't there he's like I don't want to sit on the table just waiting he went to pee I think he's like yeah I guess I'll just sit here and [ __ ] mope so I don't even get this tree bit though because this is where they send like they stand under it when um Galadriel originally gets sent off but they say they sent her off because the tree was getting destroyed in the first place yeah so every single person that stood on that tree apparently didn't notice that just black goo and mold was growing all over the thing to begin with nobody had a good look it was only gilglad uh or or maybe some people do this they're like oh that's just the tree that's normal some trees look like that that's the goo tree it's fine this is a goo tree yeah this is right but like this no this is evil girl no no definitely not exactly mine is is not that oh no not at all of course and so that I felt that was uh pretty funny here is like the just direct confirmation this is already something we figured but gilgore basically just says that uh you know we saw this evil Goo uh before Galadriel had left and we thought if she [ __ ] off that would make the goo [ __ ] off but it but it only got faster I just be said that like what was the logic there mate like what you you thought getting rid of Galadriel would get rid of the goo because as he said in episode one if the if the evil isn't being like hunted and attacked then it won't accidentally be encouraged or something like wow which is just [ __ ] logic it's like no we do nothing about Evil's growth that'll stop it from growing further it's like a huge what no I I will defend them on this one right because if Galadriel return you've all you've all met Galadriel right so if she returns and you suddenly your tree descends into evil and you're like well that [ __ ] has just turned up it's definitely hurtful we better send her off it's like I'm fully behind that they thought she was so evil that she could corrupt the entire Elven Ray since she needed to be set away well the thing is he may still be right he may still be right because she didn't leave she's still around she's just a little bit further away surrogate tree like this is the wilting of the audience every time she's on screen I too want to leave this is one of those things though when he concludes that you're just with him you're like you just hate Galadriel don't you it's fair you can just say it like but then he's like yeah he's like hey man it's okay we all [ __ ] hate her separate to the lodge like the the meme logic right which is all which is fun but gilgal adds actual that belief is that it is war that's causing the spread of evil so it's gonna get galadual to go away so the elves will be strong enough to wage war to stop the evil and it's like hang on your intention is to wage war anyway this is that the thing I was thinking was making evil Grom and then he admits that no no we need the elves to fight back it's like what are you doing mate what are you thinking it's just listen he's having trouble he's getting old Maybe such a weird choice to the goo tree yeah it's like this it's like tendrils infecting it it's not because when we talk about the light of the Valar and the a lot of this stuff doesn't seem to have like a physical like appearance to it it's kind of spoken almost as if it's it's symbolic but this is a very real infection like you could reach on it and pull these things off the tree yeah and it's coming from somewhere very physical yeah I I guess it it's it's hard to know the state of kind of everything the state of everything in terms of politics and where things are in time and place and distance but stuff like this when it leans so heavily into it and you just can't really follow what means what and wouldn't the elves feel like this because they said this is an external representation of what's happening to us surely they should feel different because like the the damage that that tree's had to it they should feel weaker or something by this point it's the thing because I think the light of the Valor isn't supposed to be just this this thing that shines on you externally or from an external Source because I think the sun has the light of the Valor in it as well when the sun is Created from sort of the remains of of one of the trees but it is actually the the elves are imbued with the light of the Valor because of creation and so it's a natural thing the further they are from valinor they lose the light from inside themselves it's not a thing that they're bathed in from outside and you can't replicate that by bathing them in it from the outside so they find it very beautiful um and I think this is sort of a side effect of what happens when the show is forced or either either is forced or chooses to do away with a lot of this sort of law World building stuff is that the more of that they do away with the more they have to create for themselves and the more they have to rely on their own imaginations and their own imaginations don't function particularly well they're not especially broad or deep and so the reason a lot of this doesn't make sense even without reference to the Lord it just doesn't make sense in universe is because we are relying on the writers to give us this stuff and they haven't thought about any of it so yeah I don't even know if it makes sense I don't have information to work with I'm just sort of like just like accepting the things that I'm told without being able to it's like well I guess that's okay that's the way it works then or okay this is happening now yeah with gilgalodon he sees this he'll be like oh man you're gonna need to get like a gardener in here to tell you what the [ __ ] going on your trees completely got raw and he goes no this is the light of the Elder faded I was like is it you sure you show yourself worth getting this tested does this ever happened that's what it turns out to be a Gilda would be like oh [ __ ] uh okay sorry so we're gonna cut the tree down he's like separate to all that as well it is direct proof that like some type of really bad evil is still present in Middle Earth very likely Sauron you know it's direct proof collection was right all along and they're intended to try and fix it is to not I don't want that evil think about if you're in Gil galad's position and galadriel's going on about Sauron and your tree has got all this stuff on it like could you draw a connection between her suggesting Sauron is still out out there and this happening to the tree because these seem to be completely independent from one another you know I would agree you're right if outside of the context of like Lord of the Rings and the concept of evil and stuff and and that this is like like evil has a corrupting influence and it's caused by some really bad entity and everything and so the fact that this tree is falling to corruption in the context of the world seems to be an indication that something more goth related bad is happening in the world and you might want to do something to fix it yeah and when the trees in valenor decayed and were killed according to this Show's telling that was because of the actual existence of unpresence of morgoth that they didn't die just because somebody suggested morgoth might be there they died because he was there and so the elves with that experience would look at these two options and say well which is the most probable is it that Galadriel is simply mentioning the prospect of Sauron that's causing the trees to get depressed or is it that maybe Sauron is actually there somewhere given their past experience there's only really one conclusion that's reasonable to draw well I don't know I think it's all very poorly explained yeah it is very important because I'm just like I don't know is the [ __ ] other [ __ ] tree Spirits peeved like I don't know maybe maybe you guys are not even real you don't feed these are the planet right like I don't know Molly your suggestion in on Friday night time so it's just a really excited orc is up the tree doing something yeah you're gonna dip or whatever he might be doing uh just yeah or it's an M that's having to sit there listening to gilgallad's speeches and it's just getting very miserable Matt Galadriel was like um so yeah he's like so did the dwarves find the ore then and El Ron's like look some Oaths May hold little weight to some people but to me my soul is bound to it I don't intend to let mine slip away which has now become kind of an interesting thought because that means that elrond really does believe gilgai is telling the truth and the the end of the world is nigh however he doesn't want to break his word that he would tell anybody about mithril German like we almost flip around now to like I don't know you probably should um if you truly believe what he's saying which does sound a little bit absurd very least you could just go up to him and say hey man the world's gonna end can I tell him like you know that is the obvious Plan B that never comes up this never does no character ever suggests this because if the world's gonna end I'm sure that he would be like you know what if the world is gonna end then yeah you know what I'm okay with you telling people it's chill and to clarify that does happen but not before something else which we are almost at yeah and this is the thing that everyone got mad at discussing online as well so yeah why aren't they focusing on the fact that the world's ending that was like my whole thing if uh if because alron seems to be completely believing it so at this point you should just be like oh [ __ ] I'm gonna have to break my oath right because I'd be [ __ ] not to at this point but what the only question he's being asked he's answering Anyway by saying like if I said have you eaten a burger recently like well I would answer you but answering that would break my oath that I wasn't going to tell anyone about what I did like okay so you ate the burger then so yeah yeah you have extra information about the myth yeah if the answer was no that you would just say no like what are you doing yeah that doesn't make sense elrond all but admits it because the line was like Jordan was right and then he like the king says then you admit the dwarves uh did find it and he says I admit only this I promised during to never reveal his people's secrets you just revealed it then you freaking [ __ ] yeah you're right so he's already broken the oath there but he's gonna break it again a sec before he decides that he will break it so great um anyway over to uh a little scene in the I don't know it's like a Little Tavern for the or maybe it's in a ship I can't tell whatever uh in numeral where um a sealed oil comes up to his his friends that he got fired and the friend accuses him pretty quickly of like you're only here because I got promoted and you want to use me to try and get onto uh yeah which is true we haven't talked since the alley right I don't think so this is the thing it's like oh this could be a good moment to prove that that's not the case because his friends clearly upset at him still clearly very paranoid about his actions and and he totally should be but like the show takes seconds to basically be like yes that is true it's like really you suck man and then yeah the thought comes to your mind of just like what is a sealed or done to rectify his huge mistake in totality has he actually tried to appeal the decision to get those two fired for no reason at all because that would have been a really decent way to get him back in the good graces right I think it's this scene where he goes well I didn't think they'd fire you and I'm still thinking yeah I don't know why they did fire him yeah so it seems perfectly reasonable from his position that's true uh but at the same time it's like has he done anything as a result of it I'm assuming not um but it is hilarious nobody understands why this happened and it just it did and you realize like well it's because we need a conflict between these two pretty much for this scene and a couple of scenes extra it goes back into the characters don't talk how characters would talk this is all left so this just isn't how people would behave of a situation like this came up situation shouldn't even be happening exactly yeah that should have been resolved earlier this should things should have happened what's the point of this Arc though with this character well what purpose does it serve what's the goal with it literally nothing comes from this scene it's tension because whoa I mean being able to join the the you know Army as a stable hand is doesn't it no because he doesn't help him yeah no that's later right oh you're right he is essentially him saying I'm not gonna oh yeah he basically gets allowed to be put onto the ship by being caught out as a reward for saving the guy yeah the ship just exploded we were almost we're almost there we're almost there it's incredibly fortunate that that was able to happen when it did yeah just in the nick of time on this scene I honestly think it's just because they've done nothing with him and they think well we need to have him as a character characters need to have people around them and they need to do stuff so that's just [ __ ] it they have some friends he has friends now we're telling you this now in this moment he has some friends and they don't like him at the moment but it'll be fine later one might say that they valued conflict over consistency here they wanted to just have something go on to make people interested but they couldn't figure out how to do it properly and so they just did it all headedly but yeah um there's actually someone I like here which is that if you ignore literally everything else when he's like you can punch me and then you can get me on the team right he does punch him twice and then he's like so I'm on the team and he's like no why the hell would I promote someone who's like an idiot Saboteur of of a very important ship that got several his crewmates in danger too obviously obviously not I was just like hey good excellent good job man you shouldn't hire this guy he's crazy um there's also the angle um I think you uh highlighted it Rags with how like how bad does it look that your first move as a lieutenant after you got ranked up was to bring in your disgraced friend and promote him that's right that's what I mentioned isn't that interesting you fight you get this promotion and the first thing you do is you bring your friend back nepotism as your first line of order I don't know maybe uh maybe maybe I was uh not wise to promote someone on such a frivolous qualifications also I don't think a lieutenant has the authority to recruit or to not even have the authority to determine who's under his command so the show's yeah it seems like a decision that would be Beyond him yeah like that seems like a decision that would be made by somebody above captain well in an army would have actual you know recruitment offices and things and uh in Charter training and then after the training is completed then you'd have perhaps a captain assign you know the divisions under whose command and things and it so well then generally the way it works right is that like those decisions are made because it's um because as Captain is the highest rank of like commissioned officers right and then above that you've got like generals and kernels and whatnot and they'll make a lot of they'll make decisions maybe about Personnel but like you just get your people and they're the people that you're in charge of and also it's only been what a day and he's just here make he's he has the capacity to make these decisions no way so there's a reason they put this scene right before the next one because this gives us the motive for a field or to be somewhere we're about to find out what that's gonna be barrazad's son sneaks onto a ship we're finally here everybody so this was a moment of just like I was like what could he be up to and uh do you remember in parts of the Caribbean where a whole ship is disabled at least temporarily by um the rudder chain being disconnected like they they just ground a lack of a better word a ship because they've done something very specific and it's difficult to repair straight away like couldn't have been something clever like that like cutting up several things that are important that can be repaired and the whole ship doesn't have to be compromised yeah like he pulls the rigging off of a thing or he like something clever I suppose something you could do stealthily yeah like they all wake up the next morning and they're like oh [ __ ] where's the steering wheel I don't have one either or he he he puts a he swims under the boat and jams the cap stand or something or puts a thing on the Chain so they can't pull up the anchor something so I thought his intention was was to blow up the entire fleet because he doesn't want to I think it might be I think it might be if it was something like that they could go well just go tomorrow then which defeats yeah I'll summarize it quickly so like he goes he grabs a lantern goes down into the lower deck and then opens up the the casks which oil or wine whatever it is he intends to set that a light and then that'll explode the ships and he's hoping to I think he Nails two as a result of this but he's hoping to get more I think that's what the case is but as he's doing it he hears a cough and he realizes that a seal door is hiding down here and then his seal door um I guess tries to prevent him from burning it and and so actually happens to cause it to happen essentially and because his cloak is on fire you know what I'll wait for that actually and they um and then they both jump out just little nicker time and sealed or saves him and then when is uh elendiel questions them the story is farazone's son was out fishing the steel door was just he just happened by and he saved him from an exploding ship because that was just happening I'm afraid and then as we said earlier they conclude a saboteur of some kind of brigand was was doing it not you two yeah so have at it everybody there are so many things to criticize about this let's begin with him sneaking on the boat it's insane that there's no one guarding it like where is anyone on patrol the ships don't have shields because no one would be foolish enough to attack why have a bodyguard where no one would ever try there's no point so yeah good good shot it would be funny I can imagine the writing that that a character was like why would we have a guard where nobody dubador would ever want to attack those ships that doesn't make sense um I don't know like maybe they would maybe someone would what's kind of the point isn't it that from this they conclude that there are people in numenor who aren't happy with the war thing and it's like you already knew that that's something that you know in fact it this is a pretty unconventional like uncommon occurrence I'd say it's anything default that there's going to be people who hate the idea of going to war and who knows what someone might do the fact that there's only one person per boat like absurd no whatever um so I feel like I should pass it to you right you spoke of it so much so frustratedly the lantern situation all right so what you know ships are made out of wood and wood is flammable and that's not good we don't want that burning that ship that would be bad so maybe it's not a good idea to leave unattended lit fire lanterns just hanging around on the same deck next to your Barrel supply of exploding flaming whatever this stuff is and CR it it's a wonder that your ships aren't just constantly exploding by negligence imagine like a man can you imagine being on the Seas and like oh there's a wave comes by and it knocks the thing off or or a spark falls on the ground and the whole thing just explodes it must happen all the time half of their the losses of this Fleet are just explosions just those explosions that's why they believe the story straight away that they spontaneously exploded like right just happens all the time yeah I did say for this he doesn't think his character the actor does say he doesn't think his character would have made them explode if he hadn't found the other guy and he thinks it was only there fast made him yeah this is from the actor himself he says if it wasn't for finding the guy in that fight he wouldn't have thrown the lantern but that provoked him into doing something so what was he there for well no he said he thought he would have been like so nervous and just thought about it and sat there all night and not had the guts to do it before he left but he he actually opens up the kegger to Spill the the exploding TNT juice I'm sorry when he hears the cough he's literally about to throw the Lantern and he stops because he hears the cough even if we put that what exactly would the point of this scene be if that interpretation is correct what's the point like what is the point of this sin what are you trying to achieve uh you mean it's not a character standpoint because you get him to get on to the boat and then he was just going to stand there all night and not do anything people don't think he intended yeah he's gonna sit down in the oil he had just spilled a little bit I don't know this is the thing he's making this [ __ ] up because that that wasn't in the show there's no like nope he's he's so ready to do he's pretty fast too he gets all this ready and it's just the coughing of his seal door that's like oh [ __ ] someone might be on this ship which then highlights the next issue [ __ ] you didn't check you didn't look around to make sure you don't kill anyone what the hell is wrong with you say hello Jesus Christ he is either a psychopathic murderer or one of the most incredibly stupid morons in existence it's uh either way it's horrible yeah um and then of course you think wait a minute you would have made all that Ruckus coming down the the steps he turned on these lights which he sealed would more than likely have been made aware of so isildo doesn't want to be seen here he's a stowaway so the last thing he needs to [ __ ] do is cough right and the reason I'm saying all this is [ __ ] hell that was lucky the one guy who never wants to be seen or heard has no choice but to cough because of some situation he's in or whatever and that's what alerts this guy that saves ceciledo's life and in turn saves his own life well I guess he would have been fine if not for all the and gets a silder to say yeah which it allows his Elder to do the thing that allows him to get to model Earth and hang on wait a second he was about to throw the Lantern on this TNT juice and this is not a slow burn right it's an instant explosion this show is a very slow burn what are you talking about so this is the thing we have to believe that he didn't know that's how that works himself that was in the list of complaints though I was gonna say like if his intention was to destroy all the fleet is so funny because he wouldn't have gotten past ship one he just killed himself is right next to him as he's breaking open these barrels he would have heard the liquid pour out and at no point thought what on Earth is happening here like you didn't question it he just said he valued his stowaway at us that much however a cough just escaped through this is what I made is so poorly done and it's the other surprised when it gets revealed like oh you're breaking open the worst kinds it's like yeah you've just heard him do it what did you think was happening like can we as I don't know if anyone else highlight this just man imagine he had attacked a different ship first all the isildos stowed away on a different ship it just blew up yeah so many of the things have to come together to just have this because we have the odds we have the odds there there was a one in five chance of him going on this ship one in five and then and then you had to factor and yeah that he copped at just the worst moment don't have to get the one out of five that well that's true that's well I guess if you Frank well no wait hold on sorry you've confused me now one in five chances of the other person choosing the same ship the first person can choose any ship so it's only the first person exactly yeah the first person like there's nothing that it is a one in five chance that the ship that he chose to board was the one that he was on already yeah which is already assuming the one in five chance that a silver chose that [ __ ] why no because he couldn't chose anywhere why are you doubling it up he could have chosen anything choosing the same ship coincidence I don't know why you I don't know why you're saying this like that silver could have picked he could have picked any ship it does the point is that it's a coincidence that he that uh the other guy went on the ship that he was on yeah that's the coincidence no you're saying that it's twice over yeah because he had to be on the ship before before one out of five The Coincidence is that he The Coincidence was that he chose the ship that a silver was on it has nothing to do with the choice that asilda made of which ship he got on there were five ships there was a one in five chance that he I'm I'm I don't know why we're doing it I'm baffled it's a 2d5 role you're gonna make her is that identified no it isn't because like whichever ship he chooses doesn't affect any role whatsoever because the role only even begins to occur when he actually exists on a ship so exactly significance no because guys I'm scared what's happening situation didn't even occur until he existed on a ship the first one like the only role is the one that's contingent on the first one yeah so it could be any means two roles have been played no because like it's it's a bit disingenuous to even call it so like it's only once he existed in a place the significance of that scene is the fact that issue door is there in the first place which means it relies on a contrivance a roll of the dice for him to get there otherwise the second role is pointless so we all we so to to lay it out no sorry nah I want to actually settle it said it's five all right so let's back up so I think what I said first is there was a one in five chance that uh the guy with the the lantern bumps into a silver that's true there was a one in five chance because it was five ships that's it that's the coincidence that he chose the ship that the silver was on there's no coincidence or anything in terms of odds I think it's with a silver choosing any ship the point is that he chose the one ship out of the five that uh that asilda was on that's it why are we saying it's the thing yeah I agree with that part I don't I I isn't this also it's reliant on the one of the five that a cylinder chose to hide on being this one as well they know they needed to both choose the same ship right yeah they needed to choose the same show only one person needed to choose the ship with a seal door was on because only that ship is relevantage because he chose to be on it nobody didn't matter which ship he chose no no no just for a second I'm gonna I'm gonna collapse this whole thing through some Wombo logic if his seal door had chosen the secondary ship that blew up he would have died as well as this guy dying right yes because two ships yeah because those two ships would have been burnt down the same way because he's a [ __ ] idiot and would have thrown the lantern anyway which blowing himself up the second ship picked one of the ships that survived no of course that's what I'm saying it's like so there is an element of what he chose to create the ultimate result right of what he sealed or chosen what this guy chose oh I get what you mean like in terms of if uh if he had chosen a different ship he would have just blown himself up he either would have oh yeah or what's more likely is that he would have chosen a ship where nothing would have happened for a silder and instead we would have had this guy blowing himself up in a cylinder would still be a stowaway sure one in five chance come happening to be on the ship that it I thought that's what we were talking about yeah what are the odds that he bumped into a silver it's one in five that is the odds it is one in five there were five ships and that was the one that he was on but just just those clarification I assumed if this satisfies everybody if we broaden it out to the entire scene the odds of us reaching the ending of this scene includes a [ __ ] ton of variables is that what never happened okay it's really good writing out of curiosity it's not even location it's timing when you have two actions the one out of fives that lead to a conclusion is that one out of five times one out of five is how you figure that out yes yeah okay it's one in 25 isn't it yeah I have just I can't remember if I was ever taught this or if I'm remembering like I I think it's one in 25. yeah probability is multiplying because if it was if there was four ships and they both had to randomly choose the same one it'd be one in 16 right I legitimately am not like a math person so um but yeah because you could argue you know the gods not being there is another element of just like the what are the odds of that it's like I guess it's not impossible but we can't really construct odds for that in the same way we can for choosing a ship so I understand why we want to isolate these uh certain things I think it's actually more uh unlikely that he just happened to cough at the exact right moment absolutely yeah I agree I would say I'd say it's less likely because I guess what's what's strange about it is that you would think that a silder is now in a position where he is actively listening for people coming so he would do his best to not cut all of this at the time you were really good thank you that thing you did a good job so good it just needed to be said twice it really did the consideration little tussle they have is hilarious because the first thought I think you even said it out loud right because I already knew what was going to happen because I'd seen when we were re-watching this uh you were like so that Lantern's going in the [ __ ] oil then like close because you'd actually I'd forgive anybody for thinking that is what actually happens but it drops it smashes and it sets his little his little cloak on fire doesn't get into the oil which um unfortunate now if you were him would you do that I just showed it on the screen you toss your cloak why would you do it you had two directions you could throw it in toward the fire or away from the [ __ ] you chose very wisely my friend and the best part is like you've already thrown it over you can you it didn't land in the fire grab it yeah if I pulled if he pulled on the back of it the non-fire part right look at it yep we'd be okay but they just leave it guess what the fact is so weird at the very moment I grabbed that which is right there two steps away will run and hopefully make it far enough away from the ship that you don't explode the thing is like by them running that implies that they know it will explode right which is the guy knew he was committing suicide when he was about to throw the damn thing this is one of the worst ones it is so like you why are you so bad at writing this it didn't have to be this way at all it's not even close footage for trailers of like ships exploding so we can make them explode again I've said if you watch this show with trailers in mind you can see it all makes sense that's another thing I had to talk about actually let's remember Pharaoh's on Sun's motivation here is to stop the war from happening does is he too stupid to know what this could actually do there's several possible results one of them is you're unsuccessful to the degree that you only destroy maybe one or two or even three ships and that just cripples numino's attempts at actually supplying a to another place that's that's really bad you just put them in a worse position is what I'm saying but um another outcome could be that you actually kill a bunch of people you're exploding five ships in a dock in fact I would say you've guaranteed killed someone it'd be unlikely if there's zero people surrounding all these ships you don't even check as we saw yeah I mean train horses because we've already seen Creations yes this one sorry I was about to say there's no way they would show us horses in here you can flat pack horses though you can just put all of them on one ship oh yeah that is the stable but there's only Saddles there's no horses you know for a fact they wouldn't have had the Bulls to blow up all those horses well you know what that's good because if there's a jerk blow up all those horses because like what what's your problem what was his plan to stop a war but what was his plan if they were horses he just gonna be like well I'm sorry she's gonna stab him in the eyes and say sorry horses you gotta go see ya oh that'd be [ __ ] up and then yeah it'd be terrible you could have the show that he's walking slowly through the ship and he sees all the horses looking at him in the lamp light and it reflects off and then play sad piano music and then he just Smiles villainously I refuse to accept the shows you know um demonstrate like the belief that there was no other person on this ship when the guy didn't even check it's probably some other guy below Decker and the Captain's Quarters or something like that probably and he's dead now even if there was nobody on there he didn't know that so exactly exactly he didn't he didn't no it's it's so so this guy's like one of the worst people of the show like as a result I feel like this is worth talking about because we've had a lot of media recently where like people don't understand the nature of like moral culpability with characters like it may well be that it ends up that the actions that they took didn't actually get anybody killed or injured but if they could have and they all or like they just didn't even know that they were putting anybody in danger and didn't care said something about them it's really like oh nobody got killed it's like yeah somebody could have been that's what matters exactly the question when you're studying this in sort of philosophy it's called moral luck the example is usually given if you're driving while you're drunk and you get home are you doing anything better or worse and if you're driving while drunk and you hit someone and the question is is there a what to what extent does morality of the morality of an action depend upon the actual consequence of that action so look how much does luck determine moral that the morality of an action is is the question sort of at stake um and it's a really interesting one to delve into because in some examples you can quite clearly see well at least you would conventionally say well okay you did a bad thing but nothing bad came of it so actually our instinctive reaction is to say that that was not as morally bad as if something bad had come of it but the second order and I can't be more interesting proactively yeah you can you have the knowledge to say well I guess you didn't do anything bad in that sense but you're still completely morally responsible for that irresponsibility made conclusion this this guy's a piece of [ __ ] in many ways absolutely I had to watch it going forward and this isn't a character who's some stupid idiot uh like stable boy or peasant you know like you you're the son of this this political vizier this this very supposedly educated and smart character and you are apparently wealthy in your nobility I I expect a little bit better from you especially given what your father's trying to teach you this wasn't very wise this maneuver here so that would have been a story though if the sun uses the lessons his father gave him to further a goal that his father was against that would be a story you see well I guess what's um the reality is that the purpose of this scene and blowing up these two ships will later find out was just to get a solder on the the Expedition yeah I guess yeah from the writing standpoint that's awesome why not what I was talking about with the other possible consequences you didn't think about if he blew up one ship that might just Galvanize the war effort it might be the people like there are people who are trying to stop us from going yeah saboteurs they're standing in front of they're standing in the way of our you know what our politics has decided what are what our Queen is what we're banding together to do they're trying to kill us to prevent us from helping these other people how [ __ ] up is that we really need to go we're not a sure thing it's not a sure thing that doing this is gonna Advance the chords that you have and we probably I'm curious people get another scene with him discussing or thinking about any of this because this scene as you just pointed out its only purpose is to get a seal door onto these ships and it's like I think we don't forget about that we're done we're done with it I think yeah this is finished I think I think this is all done it served the purpose that it was meant to serve and as far as I I think that at least this element of it the ship explosion I doubt it will come up again I doubt farazan will ever ever learn of it or heal or the or the sun will tell anybody it served its purpose it's done it's closed between imagine if he'd gone to a sealed of sister though that would be a very uh advantageous play wouldn't it I actually I know I only met you two days ago um but I just blew up a load of ships for you darling so maybe you might just think you're insane but you control that would be if they did that they'd have to build up some sort of obsession he has with her for him to because he has done that at her bidding he's not innately an anti-war person um she's persuaded him to go and speak to his father to try and stop the war and his father said nah so he's going to blow up the ships to stop the war but the impetus of the action came from his interaction with her to begin with so he already needs to be obsessed in order to justify the action he's just taken I think we got to work way harder to get to move him from into exploding ships in the harbor yeah yeah no well so that's actually a fundamental issue here I think is that I don't think the show at all has Justified him doing this there's so many reasons to say that he shouldn't and then there's all the craziness of the actual scene and then farazon and elendiel equally don't put the pieces together [ __ ] that they both would they both figure out exactly what happened here how many other conspirators are there are they in our ranks are they ready to sabotage us at any point in our journey or when we make landfall in Middle Earth this is a big deal two of our ships just got exploded out of our five yeah like for him to for him to commit to this course of action considering how much of it is outside of its control in terms of controlling the direction everything goes in like I feel like there's got to be better ideas than blowing up the ships like it's got to be a better way well I guess that takes us to what happens I guess like is the point of this character right he's sort of meant to be like in the political sphere right so he's probably gonna have a life in politics you'd think that he would try to I don't know like I guess I guess like maybe you know what I'm not I don't really care about this character I'm not that interested how they could have written him uh but also I mean just to emphasize again how insane it is that the two people swimming away from the burning boats are not prime suspects as to and they just I can't believe it's like it's insane they're excuses the one who is being told he can't go that he has to stay here he was disgraced from the the the Navy when they kicked around the idea that he's on his motive too right they both he does and they both had the means of that they were in that area at the time when it happened yeah it's uh motive means opportunity you got them all three I mean it's just like what do you think is likely that they were just out for a late night swim in the harbor yes on Friday night times I think it was as his responsible someone questions like what you're really just out here you know fishing and then they're like we were having sex you were rocking the boat so to speak foreign to the harbor and his dad's just like looks at him like oh yeah he saved my life it's like some mutual agreement I guess they've come to that they're gonna like apparently must have been telepathy I guess I guess I have a problem with it still they're not telling what like that I guess yeah right because that this is a position that can Advantage him so he's gonna seize it he's going to seize that opportunity like if he'd just gone I just this guy exploded boats and I've just stopped in and caught a criminal for you surely I guess uh maybe the guy would say like oh well I mean yeah but he was trying to stow away on the ship you know so by both of them keeping it to themselves I I don't know maybe that's the logic but this thing you know what is she has to say it just was that no I wasn't I saw you sneak aboard and you're trying to do something bad and I stopped you I was you know just looking at the boats reminiscing wishing that I could go with the the Navy saw this guy being suspicious and he started with everyone else yeah well I mean it's at the end of the day what we can say is that he didn't take the L here he wanted to he saw a way that this could benefit him and Advance his goals and he took it which is his biggest problem throughout the whole series it's like his main floor he doesn't give a [ __ ] about anybody but himself and what he wants out of life well well I mean and rags point is very true here as well because there's a terroristic Psychopathic trying to just sabotage the fleet right an issues or doesn't turn him in because it can serve his own purposes like wow that makes him look so bad yeah there's a couple of things I mean so I don't from the perspective of the characters involved so let's say uh a sealed or did choose to try and drop him in and he said well okay but you were stowing away I I guess but then again with a receiver would have known this but nevertheless I'll run with it um the problem there is of course that you know a seal door uh his reputation versus the reputation of the son of one of the leading politicians in the country is much less likely to be believed I think that's a very very Hasty uh piece in which to make that calculation but that's at least a counter argument against him trying to dub in farazen's son that could be a threat that the sun tells a silder yeah then that would have required maybe one extra scene but the problem the problem with them not the problem sorry words the problem with them doing it the way they did it is that you've established kind of a a bond of loyalty and or at least a bond of debt between them which can't ever be fulfilled because you're about to separate these guys off and so there won't ever be a payoff from this exchange because it's yield or about to [ __ ] off to Middle Earth and as far as on the sun whose name I still don't remember is going to be staying in numinos there is no opportunity for any actual consequence of this like on the spot Alliance to emerge and it is just a very peculiar decision it's kind of what I guess we already concluded that it's served its purpose it's gonna get him uh a foot in the door to get back into the guard and like go on the voyage that's it that was the only purpose I guess other than maybe like some thinly Veil purpose in the follow-up scene where they have like a debate about whether or not they're going to go but I mean they do end up going uh so it's kind of kind of feels like a retread of things that we talked that we talked about in the previous episode anyway debating whether or not they should go to Middle Earth I mean this is another question that they did ask the actors why did a seal to not do it and the guy that went to blow up the ship literally just said I guess he's not a snitch so I don't think they even have a reason for themselves that's all that they've got he's not a snitch so he's like I guess that's true I guess yeah like that like a silder has a character he would not snitch on someone else he would not he's like I guess he's not a snitch I I learned that today I mean I don't know what he seems to me like the kind of guy who would screw over basically anybody if he thinks it would Advantage him I mean look at what happened to his friends because of him trying to like he he's not above duplicity no eventually they'll have to set him up to be an especially duplicitous character at least somebody uniquely vulnerable to the Corruptions of the one ring when we eventually get to that point it's like that would be a way of starting to starting him down that Journey but they don't take that which is also the level of understanding that actors apparently have of their roles we did a whole load of speculation on actual viable answers for this and I was curious as a result of that ignoring the [ __ ] input from the actors uh Rags were you suggesting it is out of character for him or that it was immoral that he did it and that's just a part of his character now um it it's kind of tough to say because we don't get much um but it's certainly I feel it's an immoral thing yeah I think I agree with you I I think that especially if if you're in the position of a silver who seems to want things to go well for numenor not giving up The Saboteur when you don't know the extent of the plot yeah you know if there's corroborators is very very free now you're responsible exact he goes free we don't know what he's going to try and do again we don't know if there's any more people and if the concern was not being believed if isildur just told his father hey yo like that like I know it's my word against his but father listen I I saw him try to blow up the ship I was barely able to stop him and I'll come clean I was throwing away on the ship I wanted to go despite you know all the protests I'll I'll admit to that how how well would have reflected on him if he owned up to the fact it's like I was throwing away yeah I was doing that like if he if for the first time in his life he actually just took the L and just admitted it that his mistake it's it's why would you what it we needed that scene where he goes I'm telling everybody what you did and then you're gonna you'd have to characterize fires on Sons as a piece of [ __ ] but he'd be like I'm telling them if you do that I'll tell them what you did and then he goes what stowing away then he goes no that you blew it up and then you could be like you know pulls for thought and then he's like they would never and then it's like the disgraced son who's desperate to become a part of this war trying to stop everyone else from going I can sell that in a heartbeat that sort of thing the reason they couldn't have that scene is because they wanted the boats to explode and so on a burning ship you could have had that but to get that impressive explosion they would have been like well if it took that long to for it to set on fire then you could have stopped it so they literally couldn't have a seat in the middle oh well uh oh yeah vaccine is really pointless by the way that's the importance you get the whole like oh I think it's a brigand which like I said farazon would have figured this out in a hobby absolutely no no chance he knows exactly what just happened after the conversation you have with his son what the [ __ ] is his son doing there like yeah okay you totally just it was just yeah sure and then um and they say that we could have lost all of our ships so it's like oh bad really you're like you're really stuck it's that typhoid thing no not the taifi the bombers are tlj where one of them blows up and it destroys the two decks to it man remember that remember that oh yes it was made classic it's already a classic I can see it now yeah like you don't you don't expect like sailing ships to be what we would describe as like volatility chain reactive like you blow up one and then the others explode around them I was like I don't know man that I mean Fireballs out then the fire has to somehow drop through a hole in the top deck of the next ship to where there is other kerosene or oil or wine whatever it is already lying on the floor because I guess it's leaked from another Barrel or someone else has opened it already the number of events that have to come into being or to come into alignment in order for this to happen to have a chain reactive event it's not unbelievable that a ship could explode next in that era was sort of mean to stay fair but the idea of the Chain Reaction requires a lot of uh assumptions to be made there there is actual historical precedent for chain reaction the Spanish tried to invade um England at one point this is during the reign of Elizabeth yeah and and they sent out like like ships on fire to the Spanish Fleet and set the whole thing on fire because of a chain one ship's got on fire they were too close which caught another ship on fire and stuff yes but that's got the that's got the gunpowder consideration to play um yes yes he has the exploding yeah you're right like yeah well why even have the second ship explode if you're a writer right the only reason to have the second ship explode is so it looks better for the trailer something that we like to see as well is despite two ships being blown up it doesn't seem to substantially impinges nothing uh their their goal so it's like okay yeah you just lost 40 of your ships and assumedly all of the cargo and Provisions and storage space that came along with no ships I guess we're still gonna go along and do it I figured that when you say that we have five ships and 500 men that you're not just screwing around and taking Superfluous ships I figure that you need those one of the ships is 200 the other ship is 200 and the third ship has the rest of the 100 and the other two ships you know how ships are you know how these new minority ships are they do just explode so you got you gotta bring spares I would not want to be on a numerian ship oh it's a scary guy all right by the way like we're only two-thirds of the way into this episode we are and we have four and a half hours into the stream excellent and this isn't the worst episode I'm not sure I'll make it uh through the next one because I only have it like so much time left guys I'll stick as long as I can yeah of course four and a half hours I appreciate everybody to be there for this long even yeah this is obviously yeah it's not really limit set that's oh kind of um says like this is kind of evidence that things might not be quite right you know a kingdom should be led not dragged I'm just like everyone seems pretty in favor we've had like oh like like a strong amount of support one guy who he should have figured out was actually his son who blew the [ __ ] up um but yeah this basically this gives them pause for Thought which actually in In fairness to this plot line pushes them to believe that uh it's gonna be we really need to get the whole brand on our team I think Galadriel actually mentions that at one point like it might be him saying that he's willing to go might turn the tide on whether or not they actually go through with this uh traveling to Middle Earth which why oh this is wrong like everything about it I think we've already seen actually this question no I mean but there's a lot of public support against the War I mean you have those scenes as far as on yeah shouting against him pharazon's a cheerleader for the war he's explained his reasons for wanting to go there why is he the first person to be reluctant to go now that something aberrant has happened like he should if anything he should be the person saying we shouldn't give in to terrorists that sort of thing right you should say that yeah or finding any excuse because his reasons for wanting to go to war are honorable to begin with he should be the last person who's trying to agitate against going now because of this minor setback it makes him look like a weirdly inconsistent coward and then the idea that a guy again who's been in prison yesterday should now be the only person who decides whether we go to war or not is just compounding the problem that we identified right at the beginning which is that all of this is hinging on the actions and beliefs of the of the least likely people in this entire Kingdom to actually be placed in this position of responsibility agreed um but yeah and then glad you're like our enemy grows stronger every day we cannot wait which I thought was really funny because by her own logic she's been what going for like more than 100 years so uh what's a few more days Galadriel chill out Jesus we've got a whole city disorder gosh not everyone's about you uh yeah the I think it's so just to clarify I think this is the case right they went from five to three that's the idea yeah yeah we have this wide shooter here of the two blown up it looks like we got one two three four you're right but of course we saw way more than that earlier anyway so I just I just don't get it I really don't understand right yeah they only decided to bring five for some reason yeah they set five out of their total to go to war and then two of them were blown up and it's like okay so we moved two from our stalk into the war ones right it's like no oh okay crazy we don't have we of all the countries that probably have expansive navies I I'm lost because those ships on there for a luxury of the going to war they're logistically so like we have to replace them correct and the show just hand waves it don't worry about it it's only it's only 40 of our Fleet but it's not even as if they're worried about the sort of defensive concerns or anything because we've basically shown that they don't have an army because the moment they needed one they had to just recruit from random people in the street that's weird so it's not like they're constantly fighting people and it's like well no we can't spare these because they're needed for other people so uh we then just opened a seed I I was so [ __ ] blindsided by this uh Keller brimble is handing elrond back mithril it's broken good secret there elrond like the thrust of this scene however doesn't address that he just says like sorry I didn't tell you about the whole world ending thing and he was like yeah it's probably you probably should have told me that he's like oh I wanted to don't worry about it and then um Keller brimport was like yeah so anyway the mithril yep it's our Salvation I've tested it it's amazing it can saturate every last elf with light it's really the only thing that's going to save all of us I'm just like how did you have you been testing this this rock like did you get did you do all of that with elrond's mithril really did you have a uh when did all this happen unless of course yeah he's been testing mithril that he has but I don't think that makes any sense does it no that's now yeah I don't think it makes any sense and so what might have happened yeah we're stuck at elrond just passed him so elron was like I will not give uh gilgalad The Ore I will give it to caliber and Bordeaux and you can do whatever you want with it well the weird thing about the oath is I I won't tell you about it there was never an oath about the bit of mithril that he got given that was an excuse me I'll run through it to him but he was like is this mythrough he goes don't know what it is could be anything I can't tell you I don't know you just handed me this I don't know it's weird I don't think it has anything to do with anything else um but yeah there's this [ __ ] sometimes you wonder you're just like that's so hilarious uh Elrod is like so I must break my oath to save my people it's like you broke it already like what do you foreign bore is like this master legendary Craftsman it would have been really interesting to have a scene where he is introduced to mithril and he realizes like oh [ __ ] like this is amazing having him say it there would have been there would have been a lot of weight behind Keller brimbor saying these things about this incredible material that even he and all of his years hasn't seen anything like but like again that whole scene about the testing and him being shown it just wasn't it wasn't in the time that time was way better spent doing other things we skipped it need it he skipped it um and yeah so in response to elron saying that he says your father was once asked why he must do a thing that he didn't want to do and and and he said because he was the only one that could do it which doesn't really address elrond's issue at all well yeah it goes back to conversations try to use emotional appeals and Flowery prose in order to convince people of things instead of just being practical with them and saying reason a or Reason B reason C yeah it's the same thing as like I don't know if I wanted to go save somebody who's on a raft out there in the ocean but I don't know I can even do it I might kill myself and the response is well the sea is always right I see is always right then just be like does that are you saying you're saying I should kill myself or that they deserve to die if they die or the what do you where are you going with this being like elrond you are the only person that can break your oath it's like I know that that's can anyone break your Earth but yourself elrond he's like no I I guess not um what but anyway yeah you're just like you're just waiting for them to just be like well just explain to this dude we're in the situation all you gotta do and if he's like I don't care I hope you all die it's like well then you've got a bit of questions I'm I yeah then I suppose maybe I'm gonna bring my promise you're a dick and then we get to the I'm sorry I manipulated you now I would like to manipulate you oh my goodness the thing I love about this thing is that it doesn't go on forever that it does eventually end in this hellish torment can cease and you'd be you'd be forgiven for thinking it never ended but it did eventually end it does go on a while I love having two characters that I actively do not like talking to each other in their own self-righteous [ __ ] ways about how wonderful they are it's I I just don't what a what a useless pair of losers take a valuable screen time basically says that he doesn't want to do the stuff she wants him to because everyone will eventually find out what he is who he is what he's done and oh you can't be handling that and he's done such horrible horrible horrible things and then she's like well sometimes to find the light we must touch the dog I hate that philosophy so much hey basically yeah uh you have to be evil to do some good sometimes and justify the means it's like holy crap I didn't even get that I didn't even know what the [ __ ] it's supposed to mean I I think it was a fair interpretation I just I when I heard it I know what evil is I've seen Darkness or I've been around evil so I'm aware of what goodness is it what do you what are you actually saying yeah because if she says you have to do a little bit of evil to know what doing good is I'd be like what the [ __ ] okay okay yeah then uh he's like what do you know of Darkness who did you lose and she's like my brother he goes what happened because there's a pause it's kind of funny just goes he was killed and that is like he was killed by death um eventually says you know Sarah did it and then he's like why do you keep fighting she's like because I cannot stop I just break that down it's like her reason is basically because because I can't stop is no reason and so she literally is because it's like huge the infantile [ __ ] she's a child she's actually asked if it's Revenge that's motivating her and she says no um but revenge is the only thing that can explain the fact that she can't stop oh yeah denial to me well I mean the threat of the end of the world right not even that she could have said that that there's a lot of Justified reasons that she could say like you know I don't want anyone to experience the pain of loss like I have seeing you know the battle that they're fighting more Gothel or a brother I think that could have worked or you know we can't let evil spread there's so many easy answers and she just says because and it's like oh because I can't stop because me me me me because me yeah I'm not trying to save the Shire or the world or our kingdom to stop evil they're evil creatures they hurt people all the time they take things from people I want to stop the evil it could have just been there for me that is such an obvious easy answer it feels like the writers are intentionally trying to make her the worst character possible oh you know what I've been really neat is if Galadriel was like a lot of elves and was a [ __ ] racist and then she went eventually went to numenor and got there and spent time with them like actually these are they're kind of nice you know they've been nice to me and I I see a I see a kindness in man that I've never known before and they you know I I thought all the elves are I want to save men too is something that shows that she's grown or learned something or changed for the better I'm so I'm still sticking to this idea that what they are trying to do is introduce Darkness to her because the darkness in her is the thing Sauron exploits and they'll have this uh they'll have the moment where that you know they get close over the course of multiple seasons and then immediately as Sauron is revealed to himself he does that join me and together we can rule the galaxy as husband and wife moment and then she'll do that I'm not like you and he'll say you are just like me and then she'll say no I'm not and then they'll go and fight and all the rest of that I'm sure you wrap that up I think that with episode six I think they've wrapped that up and it's done and it'll never be a problem for her again I think this show thinks that it solved that issue I don't know I always got the sort of impression from sick one with [ __ ] it will get the six but I mean I got the impression that they were still going to carry on doing that but but that doesn't even this scene doesn't help even interpretation though because like if you're wanting to give Sauron something to manipulate about her then having her admit to the to Revenge Revenge being a base motive introduces a flaw to her character but also with fear she has and also something for him to exploit whereas if she says it's not Revenge well then a why the hell she's still Clinging On to a dead brother's dagger and then B what exactly does Sauron have to go on from just because just because isn't something you can work with as a manipulator it's actually it's it's kind of remarkable achievement in that this scene is actually obvious gatory rather than revelatory it doesn't know if she actually does less she's just bloodthirsty is that what they're going for well they kind of say that in the next episode but I actually only found peace when I was killing people next to you but even in this I don't think they actually understand their own motivation well I don't think they even understand the conversation because when hell Brand's asking oh why are you doing this he's supposed to have like it's supposed to be like a battle of wills and he's the one which is uh that's his retort to her when he's just asking why are you even doing this to me and she projects her own emotions onto him she's like well I can't find peace here so you definitely won't be able to find peace here you've got to come with me and do the thing that I want you to ever have peace in the first yeah she's awful she she even says you'll find pieces no other way apart from across the seas like holy week which is a horrible influence like wow but the show doesn't know that yet does from this point onwards is all galadriel's fault because if he just wanted to stay in numenor you just wanted to grill make swords and everything yeah just wanted to grill him at all then drill some solids and I don't think they know that that's what they're about to do in the story and because if they do that at such a Monumental uh moment that it should go all throughout history it should have been in an original trilogy and everything she should feel so much different than how she actually feels at the moments this actually destroys the entire future of Lord of the Rings in this one conversation and yeah I don't think they even understand I started a war in a foreign land for personal reasons no biggie the only other interpretation which is not one the show invites but is the only one that's halfway sensible is that Sauron or already has these aspirations and he's been trying to manipulate her into sort of uh committing to them on his behalf so like this is this is the excuse that he will give but she's not actually prompting she's not providing the impetus uh to action he's been trying to manufacture this setup from the beginning that that's the only one that I think would make any kind of sense and fit in with the stories we know it happens much later on it's like it fits very well with like anything he's actually no he's he's done anything to facilitate that really other than just go I don't wanna I think I know I have a feeling that this show is just I think that's a missed opportunity as opposed to uh something they're working against I think they just haven't thought to do it and that's going to be one of those instances where you've got this one missed opportunity that compounds itself over subsequent episodes and Seasons um and that's that's incompetence of a different sort I don't think I I would be really surprised if in the end it turned out that Galadriel had provided Sauron with the impetus to be evil again I don't I can't well but it's just I think I think that it will be coincidentally her fault but she will be morally in the clear and it will not be a mark against her character the show will just say it was kind of a secondary side effect of her doing this that has nothing to do with her moral standing or responsibility so that they think they could get the best of both the thing is this though really establishes that Sauron here doesn't want to be bad again he doesn't want to go back to that life he doesn't want to return to that world that place and it's all galadriel's selfishness here that's pushing him back into that I I agree with this Brew I think this is actually setting up that he will become Sauron and do all the bad things because you know the Lord of the Rings truly and stuff and it's now galadriel's fault thanks to the same it's unbelievable I think I agree with Rags that that will that may well be the consequence but it won't the story won't impugn Galadriel for it the story thinks collateral is faultless but well yeah I think that's what rhymes were saying was that uh that he thinks that that's how it will play out but the show will not treat it as being her fault it was something that happened and it stemmed from her decisions but it was not a direct consequence of her decision and not something that should reflect badly on her I think that isn't it tragic that while you were being exactly you you inadvertently did this thing yeah yeah in trying to stop evil they accidentally emboldened it delicious anything I get I don't know we haven't set up that if she would have done nothing things would have been fine so it's hard to sympathize with that this wasn't like a one-off line in one conversation that he had like even when they first arrived he's like can you not just let me have peace I like it here I just want the peace he's repeated it time and time again and that she comes here and I hate how she apologizes and then just doesn't care about her own apology and goes again that's what really pisses me I'm sorry that you don't agree I'm sorry I'm sorry I used you I need to use you now though please now that we've settled that I do need to use you by the way yeah we also have um another part of this conversation that drove me nuts when she recounts the episode one events and says my men mutinied me it's like no they didn't they in fact you mute need the king you [ __ ] took your own orders you were like nah [ __ ] it I get to do whatever I want and they were like no we are months over our uh orders we're going back if anything you're the crazy Rogue but she remembers the events as she was mutinied it's amazing she's the victim it's like um but like that to me I think the writers would tell me like well no they did mute you know like no no no no you it's too late you've written it so that she has recontextualized events to sell herself as more of a victim than she actually was she's a piece of [ __ ] it's too late you've already ruined it and she has no idea why gilgalat sent her away at all like that was an award for coming back at worst she could have thought well they didn't want to send me off to go back up the air againer but she agreed to it so this whole idea that anyone thought she was as evil as Sauron at no point in episode one and two was that even suggested you know what's funny as well is if she did manage to swim all the way back to shore then she climbs like wherever she needs to go to get directly to Gil galad she's standing there like incredibly wet covered in mud like these crazy eyes like red veins in them she's like why did you send me away just goes is your [ __ ] nuts that's why I figured you would have figured that out by now but yeah she just continues to be the most awful person uh again her and Jen Walters come competing with each other every week every week oh yeah I can outdo you with this have you watched the new episode yet or I have not no I have no there are it's uh because I mean for this I I actually held off on watching these two episodes until I only had two hours before I wanted to go to sleep to get up for this I just I can't be asked and it's the same for She-Hulk it's just like oh [ __ ] we gotta talk about it yep all right better get caught up that's a great significant this show though I mean if you're writing your interpretation in the Galadriel is responsible for Sauron becoming evil again it does clearly answer the question of who is worse Galadriel or She-Hulk because well She-Hulk does is be incredibly narcissistic and and self-centered whereas in this case Galadriel is according to your interpretation anyway she is actually bringing back the evil if she doesn't know what she's doing enjoy the world no but narcissists never do know that said the full consequences oh sure but what I'm suggesting is that She-Hulk is almost equally narcissistic but she doesn't have world ending consequences as a result of it actions which to be fair she probably could if she's in the MCU which if she does anything wrong step in the right place and she does end the world true but we're going back to that moral luck question earlier is is the action morally bad just because of the results that it has yeah actually because it made worse if someone went out like a friend went out drunk driving and didn't hit someone I would condemn them like crazy for doing that um knowingly destroying hellbran's life yeah exactly yeah I want peace I want you know tranquility and she's like no you need a you'll only find peace doing what I say which is so self-serving and so narcissistic and she has no guarantee that that would actually give him peace because as I give it her peace it's bullcrap that she says she found peace that way and so it is all manipulation uh and at his expense and so she is happy to ruin someone's life to serve her own ends and I haven't seen Jen do something that extreme yet so yes I'm happy to concede collateral's worse I just find it funny because the two new shows coming out with female leads are just they're both horrible people I was just gonna ask quickly so like on this subject of um of Sauron and who's manipulating you so I I'm finding your argument distressingly compelling the thing that's holding me back from it is hey I refuse to believe the writers because ever conceptualized Sauron is being good but now I've said that they almost certainly could the only other thing I'm thinking about what they're doing with the Orcs there there is that yeah um I think there's different reasons for that though the the thing that's holding me back though otherwise and the things sort of in the show itself is you have those lines you have that exchange with him where he's explaining to her exactly how he is manipulating her he gives her lessons on manipulation so if he's having agency and manipulating people and the and the show is giving very sort of over references to his manipulative nature how does that square with the idea that he is the purely innocent party in this that's being manipulated by Galadriel because the writers are so incompetent that they can't execute it like if they try and say that this was sarin manipulating her the whole time I'll say bull crap what you showed was not that at all it might have been your intent but this is where I would play death of the author card because you did not have the confidence to play it off you have shown glad you're manipulating him and it would be like they were so desperate to try and um throw people off the scent of Sarah's manipulation that they now have not betrayed him doing any manipulation at all and there's no sign at all no yeah they've done an awful job of setting up that this guy is I don't know what how he's gonna work to just if they do the thing of like I'm Sauron by the way I'll be like wow that's it really but if they have like I don't know a big old Shadow appears around him and then absorbs into him and he goes oh I'm sorry now I'll be like right that makes a little bit more sense I guess um because I I don't think they've set him up as the Sauron at all up to this point uh yeah because I I don't really think he's been manipulating her at all he's kind of been begging it no there have been times where he's manipulated other people like farazan to get what he wanted but if you if you say look he's literally come from being Sauron then I don't think getting like a guild Crest or whatever is is that big of a deal and like yeah he's trying to find peace he's on the Road to Redemption he wants to be redeemed and wants to change his ways I think you can do you have like the odd like lie or whatever along the way it's not like because even in the in the alleyway yes he did batter them but only after he was pushed to a point where he couldn't really resist so he fell into his old ways he was trying to tell them please just leave me alone or the entire thing has been him going I don't want to do this please don't make me do this because I know where I'll end up rather than this reading his manipulating of other people occasionally is just evidence of his latent evil but nevertheless the thing he's trying to overcome yes I I think that especially when you've been that bad doing something like lying you'd probably consider yourself not to be like that's a big step up for you on the because yeah if it's gonna be that he's actually evil Sauron is manipulating Galadriel to do what he wants how does this scene you can't explain this scene like his lines where he says I don't want to go back to what I was doing I swore to never return there why is he saying that because all that's doing is trying to convince Galadriel to not go and fight but he that's what he wants and so I'm assuming you're suggesting she could have at any point been like okay I understand then leaves yeah and he'd be like oh [ __ ] my whole plan he only he only goes after she's told him that he will not find peace which is what he said what he was here for so he kind of just goes with her he's like well okay if she says I'm not gonna find peace here my only chance at it is with you over there and then that's what drags him back into his old ways but if he could actually be right that he could get peace here then she's the one that caused all of it I'm aware that I'm now sounding like I'm doing a lot of work on the part of the writers um but but the line in the prison which I think is the most instructive one when he's teaching her about what manipulation is and uh and he says what was it he said something like you you show people their fears and and you she says and you exploit it and he says no I think he says you give it to them I think that's what he says give you the weapon to fight it or something and then you master this it was a it was an allergy of the One Ring give them the thing that they want uh and you make sure you have ability to have Mastery over that thing and you'll Master them so what does he say what is he doing in this scene then when he's talking about when he's talking to Galadriel about uh his refusal to go he's established that what she fears is peace he is giving her peace he is establishing himself as the tool which can be used against her she he is the very thing that she refuses to accept could exist that's what he's presenting as but that makes him integral to her plans because then you get to the point where they go to of the Queen's Council and it's his word against everybody his word is the one in which everything in the future then hinges because he's established this position of trust and influence precisely by portraying himself as being against the thing that he secretly wants to happen and therefore playing up on galadriel's fears of Peace which is what he's showing to it I I'm now aware that that sounds way too nuanced for the writers but like that would be how I'm seeing this look he's denied that at every single step of the way every time my point is he would deny that's the point no because she said you're the king I need you then he could be like yep and go along and if he just said yes right from the start if this was Sarah's master plan that means Sauron really does want glad you're to go off on this war to potentially either spread War corrupt or whatever set himself up as the leader in uh in the Southlands everything he could have done a lot of things to help that goal uh more than what he's done in fact he's tried to work against it at every point he could have said ah you're right I am the king I don't really but maybe with you and so that's what I mean if if this was supposed to be his master plan that he manipulated glad you're all to do that he has been actively working against it at every point and his own actions have supported his own story like yes he lied to somebody to get what he wanted which could be slipping back into his old ways but that was only to get a guild Crest because he wants to forge and Forge him gave him peace so his actions which don't really have it like she doesn't care whether he was forging or not at the end of the day so his actions back up his own sort of internal desires rather than some hidden narrative and they might try and say there was one but I I don't think they've actually yeah I would call bullcrap I'll be like all right where where was he actually subtly manipulating the the thing to achieve this result of Mount Doom exploding and all that bull crap and everything when if you actually just what he's doing is constantly trying to do the opposite and it's like well he's either the worst you know person to orchestrate his players or they're full of crap you know yeah I think the defense about this is this is from the same people that said that Gil galad and calibrinbos master plan to find mithril was to say jiren's backed in a little bit weird hasn't he and then you specify that as an intricate plan to get Aaron to do exactly what they wanted so but it could yeah they could just come out and say it and hope everyone believes them yeah you make a convincing case I think maybe you've just exposed that I have a misplaced basic element of Faith left over that the writers will not be [ __ ] the future it's a really [ __ ] scene does not help her at all it makes everyone incredibly confused as to what the [ __ ] whole Brand's going to be up to in the coming episodes but we'll get more on that as time goes on we now cut to you know you remember all the the the the first hour of this stream where we talked about how a bunch of people decided to swear fealty to Orcs um we're gonna catch up with them now see what they're up to so you got uh they're led by uh what was what was oldman's name again when when uh how dog Hodag oh waldrig waldrig oh dog close to that um yeah so they turn up and uh this is funny because they actually lived as op lifters or the like I I pledge my a diet service to you Lord Sauron it was such a moment of um at least to me anyway that he like frowns at him and you're like oh this is gonna be like a weird move from him right to imply is he is he Sauron in the next episode he's like I'm not sorry they're really enjoying making people think that whole bread isn't Sauron I guess because it's all such nonsense right like trying to bait that it's uh not Gandalf or Adar or whoever else when it's just like it was that the whole point of this show just to be like which ones are on which one I mean Adar would just he would have just told his Orcs he was Sauron right well he's not though right so he's just well I mean if if the show was try I'm saying if the show is baiting which one is actually Sauron why wouldn't Adar have just told his why wouldn't he be going by that name to his own Orcs well they very deftly would have have said Sauron goes by many names oh oh yeah oh he goes my many names all Adar is one of them oh okay well that's okay all right then I go by one name well yeah fair enough well he doesn't so that was enough for everyone to go oh that could be sorry but yeah uh it's kind of baffling because he's like yo he like grabs it by the throat pushed him over and he's like are you not sorrow okay fine I'll whoever you are I I'm loyal to you I guess I just kind of found it it's like one of the most genuine human moments of this whole show was Waldron just being like dude if you're not that's fine I didn't mean to call you or whatever I'm saying I'm no slave okay it should be okay are you are you chill like what's what's going on I didn't mean to upset you like I don't know you wanted my allegiance you got it all right here I am I don't know build infrastructure or something I don't know then something awkward happens uh Ada like you go to the only bond is blood and you've got to draw blood and they give him waldrick a knife and they suggest he's got to do something new kid here or teen guy here what did everybody think that was happening here exactly that he wanted waldrig to kill this guy in order to show that he really was loyal yeah that's what I got from it yep um do you think it's worth if if he just cut him and was like there you go I drew blood would date I'll be like uh yeah uh I mean if it's blood you said blood not like death or killing or you know Sakura you know you said blood I'm going by what you said I'm a little I might not I might not look it but I'm a bit of stickler for you know protocol here so it's not really the spirit of what I was saying waldrick I want you to kill him and then we'll just like well maybe you should have been more specific I don't know maybe we should kill one of the old old weak ones that can't fight good why would we kill the young super healthy guy again it was like it's about the point but the message it's not it's not about old or young that is loved um so uh yeah I guess he does it because we don't see this kid again so rip he was uh he was your favorite character right somebody somebody's favorite character here I think was that guy he's three years yeah yeah he's a better actor than the main teen guy is so possible miscasting um yeah I think also that more reasonable explanation would it be funny if the most common conclusion is the only one that was well cast was diesel it's like she she's all right she's kind of fun we like her it's like oh well I mean just everybody else there's a lot of wooden acting in this unfortunately here so go back to the Watchtower and uh and they're practicing some archery um firing arrows into a wooden door which brags right if you're gonna if you're gonna be PR I imagine that if if you're spending all this time and effort sharpening arrows making the arrowheads getting them all nice for this battle you're practicing from 20 feet away by shooting at a hard wooden door like I don't know man I feel like you're gonna lose a lot of your arrows doing that yeah like that's something straw to shoot into right I'm sure they have plenty they must have loads remember they have all that food so I'm sure they had plenty of warfare resources too the elves wouldn't have taken that when they left the Watchtower they would have left all of their uh Warfare weapons there right it's oh it's a it's a good and it's good that you're practicing at such short range at an object that will clearly damage many of these arrows therefore not being able to use them against Orcs this is a this is a sound strategy it gives them a little uh pep talk I think or rather no they're like talking about why the elf is uh is here I think and he's like because you guys hate us and it turns out that we are pretty evil I guess um because yeah he said that whenever we had a knife too sharp you would you would come down on us and the elf guy was like yeah well among ever among the knives I heard Whispers And I learned to trust some of those Whispers or something like that I've never been like seriously he just said he just been up front and said yeah but in our defense we are racist I well they're both like both teams have loads of races of it and it's just like oh well whatever like if he's like why are you here you hate all of us we're like I don't know man because you did just go Swifty to Orcs well that comes up the best part of this [ __ ] conversation it's like why would you trust us half of us left he goes but half of you stayed I mean his entire instruction on archery was aim higher so I don't think he's good I couldn't advice to me you know he's tangling up his metaphors just like oh he's in this moment he's a personification of the whole show it's just like he's tangling up [ __ ] and trying to come across as an intelligent and insightful the forgetful aspect of kid's gripe is that the elves have been watching the humans too closely but apparently not closely enough that they spotted huge tunnels burned down forests except cows um all of these massive world-shifting things the Orcs have been doing for the last however long it's been sure but they did notice The Whispers among the knives yeah see it's like it's like you ignored that because you're bad faithing he clearly said something about Whispers and knives he definitely did but I I then I'd question why he's listening so internally to the cutlery drawer and not actually opening his eyes what did his Alpha see nice it's just so painfully boring he's like I do not care let him die get rid of him but like just just to you know he said he was a half a glass half full kind of guy if if the whole conversation is about whether or not the the men are worth saving that his like counter to them as a collective is that half of this whole [ __ ] off if the counter is half State he's like I know that that was implicit in my statement of half left I'm saying it's really bad that half left okay and he'd probably be like oh yeah no I agree that's pretty bad actually he should have been a bit more explanatory with him focusing on the you know being The Optimist side and that sort of thing is like do you think you know another people you know half of you would have stayed defied or something like that or I I'm also try and turn it around the narrative this reveals how much of a low opinion he really had of the humans that is impressed that half State I thought only one or two of you are going to say I thought you were all gonna be goddock over the evil but half stayed I've been pressed oh I believe it you something very opaquely about having you know higher loves than whatever it is that you know the base loyalty for example like at least you could do it a slightly more subtle hinting at his relationship with whatever his woman's name is as opposed to the really overt and tedious and very cringy flirting they do later oh yeah you often forget that they just have a relationship with these two like love each other eat something you legitimately forget because it's so poorly five hours in you must have had plenty of content to understand their relationship at this point that is true I have a lot of context for why they like each other how they met what they see in each other just so much it's a very thoroughly exploited relationship and so relatable EO is like hey bro check out my cool cool hilt and elfman's like oh my god what the hell I've seen this before and then like moves 10 steps to the left oh my God this [ __ ] scene yeah you know the biggest thing that was funnier to me was the fact that him walking over to it and fiddling around with some Vines the whole Tower to like oh my god what have you done what is this guy filling with fines hey Gary check out this guy it's the else fiddling with some Vines he's like yeah that's that's what they do it's The Simpsons meme where Grandpa Simpson sits on a stub starts talking then Milhouse goes look everyone an old man is talking they all just run away good reference that's a good reference the same thing they're all just fascinated by the fact that he's pulled away something that's always been there it's just and then yeah no one's noticed it the Elves and the hundreds of years they've been here him personally here for 79 years never noticed that there was this creepy ass [ __ ] carved wall right here in the courtyard that signaled the Doom of the world that's it's a hard to miss you know but I guess you can't catch them all I suppose I'm glad The Whispers among the knives that was important to be in that writer's room it's like okay well we need we need the next thing to happen so what can we have him do where has he seen this before I don't know um next like right next to him just stick it on the wall there that's good enough who [ __ ] wrote this it's it's staggeringly contrived it's even more baffling when you find out what it means because like like I I thought this was gonna be like maybe a dark doorway entrance to a tunnel that leads to the bowels of Mount Doom that Sauron set up previous hand and the elves found it and built their Tower to block off and protect it and make sure no one could find it and holy crap could I have not have been more wrong obviously like that that arid thought you're having about the potential storyline these rides gonna come up with this so much better than what they come up with instead it's a key to open a Spillway and it's like what Sarah made his evil mural for like a very functional kind of mechanic of a dam so you know for a fact that if Sauron had a toaster it would be red and black it would have horns it's just how things work shirt it's always been like it's not like at this point that they don't know what they've got because arenda knows it's a key so the first question would be well where's the lock and the lock is right at their feet as they are standing here there's a big hole that would fit a sword and they're both like oh just nobody looked down otherwise we're in trouble and we'll destroy your entire story should we put like a rock in there or something sand or gravel we have to put a bunch of [ __ ] in the deal with this problem yep they could have plugged it with something and that would [ __ ] up the entire plan but that's fine don't worry about it I'm sure the chances of the key going into this hole are so small that we don't even have to bother with any sort of Defense but I doubt what the he actually does that you don't even really need the sword to do that to open the spillway just hit it hit it with a couple of songs and you've got the job done and it and what's weird is like Adar he actually seems to know that's what the purpose of the key is because he says what's this guy name to do it and then it's like you didn't even need the key you didn't even go to all the trouble the elves abandoned the tower no one was there at you chasing the humans to like no you could have just walked to the dam and opened it up at your leisure it's so responsible to leave the tower and not you know not what what was that thing where you um you did you spike the Cannons essentially with this uh yes yeah I feel like before we left by the way we never got any the elves never came back to investigate what happened to all no I don't know they totally they just left and none of them care that all of their men have been killed it's just like oh whatever would do the elves at home mention it we're building a tower right now go away also that's right that's old mine think of that as a big old next time on evap sort of thing because uh that's that's gonna be all episode six and uh unfortunately we're still we still got like 10 minutes of this episode left so we're not gonna be able to cover the other one tonight all right I'm sorry chat you know this happens but having seen episode six I now know to book Monday off work yeah into problems we think oh five it wasn't that it wasn't that meaty and then you start looking into it and you're like [ __ ] hell it really was just Rife with issues every scene there hasn't been one scene where we can just say yeah that was good well so uh right spring when we first covered the show like episode one it went pretty fast uh fairly fast I think that those first two episodes were a bit of an anomaly and they're so emptiness I think that what's happened is that the longer the show has gone on the more time it's had to [ __ ] up yeah um that's basically that's right the story has expanded more characters are thrown in more decisions are made it's all coming together said it you know that would for as little was achieved in those first two episodes there was definitely a lot of breaches anyway but now they've managed to establish more and breach like the inconsistencies of just pile on to where the show is pretty terrible I would say at this point um it would be worth praising in it and there's a lot to criticize about it so again it's worth mentioning uh for the people who don't watch the show and watch our coverage of it instead or anyone's here uh this is pretty atrocious and the worst episode is the one we have not covered yet no yeah because uh episode six is is man holy [ __ ] for glad real um so we have yeah the little chat between um lady girl and Elfman and so they're going to talk and he says to her your son has what the enemy leader needs to take over the world and become a god basically and she takes this information really casually she's like it just goes it just follows Theo's spin I mean that that's Theo you know yeah we're growing up with something always will be boys I'd be surprised if it wasn't the case uh I always knew that Theo would be the death of the world it annoys me the teenage boys am I right she doesn't have every question on her mind like where the hell did Theo get this thing from in which case Theo should probably mentioned to everybody I got it from waldrig he actually is the one that had this in his bond and he's very much loyal to Sauron so better be careful with that guy I mean it's a bit late now he's already God but whatever um secondly but if you see him in the future hanging around after the battle or something yeah maybe we should stop him and not let him run up stab him in his face over and over again maybe just put that in the baby pot I'm sorry Paul that stab twist gut got the face with men it's got twist stab oh I'm sorry yeah that works it's it's it's complicated formula the order is important she said she'd keep it simple this wasn't simple this is difficult so yeah she doesn't question the whole become a god part she's just like hmm yeah we better stop that from happening it's like yeah okay fine uh I guess there's no curiosity as to how it'll all happen or why they definitely believe this is true she just she's like yeah sure and then of course just like the nature of the fact that the enemy leader of this Army of demon things is after an item your son happens to have takes us so well just I just don't get it and by the way this might actually be consistent you remember her reaction to that whole village being annihilated was like oh yeah you're right at this point it's like is it the actress is it the directing is it the script maybe it's all of them all of the above the conclusion they draw is well we have to hide this thing um it doesn't seem to make it very much of an effort to hide it I think he just keeps it in his pocket but I'm sort of thinking watching it's like you know if you've lost your I don't know your car keys just just in your front room you've lost your car keys and how it can take hours to find them down that particular part of the sofa that they've fallen down you've got an entire world you could take that thing to you've got ample time to escape it's only one there are no copies just give it to your fastest runner and tell them to run away and Sauron or Ada is basically [ __ ] for the foreseeable because it's going to take him a long time to find it an even longer time to find it than it's already taken yeah that's if Ada doesn't realize that he could just break open the dam whenever he wants with a couple of strong hammers yeah but if yeah if they really wanted to get rid of it and they actually had an even shorter time there's a really really deep dim like you're right next to that you know just throw it in the middle of that thing swim out a bit drop it and holy crap no one would ever find it again they actually say at one point give it to the numenorian so they can drop it in the ocean yeah they've got something kind of similar to that it's right next to you it's effectively [ __ ] you could just go out into a forest and dig a hole and bury it and nobody would find it yeah cause there's no there's no tracker on this thing of any kind right it's not even like the ring where the people are drawn to it no it seems to be uh it seems to be that it is an object that you need to see to know that it exists no different than anything yeah exactly so like in that case just go out into the forest dig a really deep hole and bury it even like before you do that in case it in concrete yeah like put it in a brick put it in some wall yeah just do do something other than just [ __ ] around like this and this little fort you have so many options for the stakes what they are yeah you should probably be like one person needs to your only job and remember when you do bury it if you decide to bury it in the rag make sure you like unfollow and check that it's in there first before you burrow it you wouldn't want to you wouldn't wanna waste it I don't understand why would you say that any person would obviously do that why would you mention that it seems weird yeah you're saying you would be able to tell instantly just by the weight yeah obviously well I mean maybe that's the thing right you would tell by the weight and shape of us like I don't even need to open this I know with like absolute certainty that this is not a tomahawks state of the world on my certainty I'm sorry yeah I'm so sure that I will well you could possibly reference but what what could we well I mean we're not referencing we're just floating some ideas hypothetically if that was to be a hypothetical you should be watching out for yeah oh yeah no that's good I don't think any of these characters are gonna make a mistake exactly the obvious how [ __ ] astronomically stupid would you honestly have to be to not be out of no instantly yeah I think you guys should have more faith in the writers they're not that stupid you know the consequences of mistaking a tomahawk for a hilt in this case couldn't tell you should have a massive volcano for instance but I mean that's just one of many people the apocalypse the apocalypse the three thousand years of misery but yeah that's it Wade so then then the purpose of the scene comes before the characters in it again this is something I want to work backwards of I don't typically do it but I'd like to do it for this scene just in in general the end of this scene is uh bromwind saying uh something like uh you know it's pretty much over they've won this Tower will fall and then she has like a look and uh when I was watching with Rags we both hadn't seen an episode The Next Episode yet oh it was like oh so they're gonna they're gonna topple the tower on purpose to try and use it as like a weapon and immediately we were like I don't know if that was first of all how are you gonna set that up and secondly like how's that even gonna work that seems pretty unreliable you know just all the normal thoughts but I guess we'll put them all inside yeah you know I did not pick up on that like you know this Tower will fall I thought it was just them saying you know uh being overtaken like like defeated yeah you know that's what I think that's what she is saying they're trying to be clever she has the realization I think that you're pointing it out I think the writers is actually foreshadowing that out it pointed out and it just makes it more stupid yeah it really does but really the point I want to make is they wanted to get her to say that line to then very cleverly be like I will fall but not in the way that you think how do we get it to say that line it's like well we needed to despair a little bit right so let's have the conversation go that way and man they went insane this is a lady who like constantly is the leader and the hopeful person will take you through everything La La La in this conversation what he explains like oh yeah we've got this sword we've got this this this is our resource this situation she just like 180s her personality to the point where she's like we're all destined to be horrible horrible people we joined bulgarth as blah blah a bunch of us have left we're not going to be able to beat them it's all over we've lost we're dead and even Alfred's like dude yeah calm down what the hell no where did this come from she is that a lot is it that is it that time are you she walks out into the Public Square just starts to clear again we're all [ __ ] we're just dead this is like what the [ __ ] just a reminder we did not elect you as our leader don't listen to her you didn't even elect her it's fine because you get to wear blue doesn't mean you're better than us to do this in public in front of the people yeah you just let it they you are the reason they're still here yep and now you walk out into the crowds a year maybe I was maybe I was wrong maybe we are all just dicks and and so let's just give up no like I said I'm almost certain they assassinated her character in order to have a line they thought was clever but she was like they're gonna topple our Tower you say they assassinated a character I do I'm claiming that and I'm sticking to it she had something of a character she didn't have a character oh my question was gonna be can you can you kill a dead thing you could kill vampires right they're dead on the bottom of that one we're not even gonna get started about I actually don't think she's inconsistent if we take it as a oh you know what she is kind of because like the fact that she's so caring about getting everybody to safety and stuff but then she'll simultaneously not give a [ __ ] when people die in the other Village it's like that's already pretty bad yeah and it just like it seems to come out of nowhere this character who's really big on we gotta do this gotta do that I've got a plan you do this all of a sudden no all this doomed up is lost yeah well they broke her again is all I'd say then but they break everybody all the time so whatever I mean they'll break her back and I don't know if you could don't [ __ ] know which takes us to the realization that the table thing was indeed a lie that's dumb um explained why and so elrond is trying to get the thing that he wants to say out and um Buren says enough with the quail sauce give me the meat and give me it raw I can't believe that that's a great line boys that's a great line they must have notified give me that meat raw elrond I mean it makes everybody think of stuff in particular that's fine I prefer my meat raw I could excuse a couple of naive people that might not have such you know dirty minds and everything but that ain't about 30 minutes A lot of people before I had no one no one said you you do realize what this sounds Factor when he was you know he was thinking it when he was saying it he's like oh this is just like this is like a come on he forgets of a stone to announce it enough with the quail sauce I don't even know what that means I know that's just stupid but there's already enough like well such attention between these two and then he comes out with that line on top I think in this in this analogy I mean it starts with your raw meat all right Quail sauce is Lube in this analogy I'm sure okay he's like lubed up enough now give me the raw meat yeah okay with Harvest only the slipperiest of quails so uh yeah that Elrod says seriously Elrod is actually brain dead he says I thought I came for friendship but I came for the mithril it's like no no you didn't you thought you were coming for a proposition to get the mining job done then you were told they have a secret thing you should probably try and find you did because you eavesdropped on them and then you said I promise not to tell anyone and then you did you're just a bad person like you just you're having trouble figuring it out I don't know and honestly like duren's response here should be like you scumbag yeah lie to me the whole time you lied to my face and you think I'm just gonna let it go and that but that's what they do he just like Duran doesn't even blink at this let's go yeah it's really annoying because this is this was the foundation of all of this stuff even being able to get this far in the season was like I don't even believe you are because remember on the the elevator ride where he's like ah there it is a proposition that's why you're actually here and then he's like no no no no no I you know we're totally friends he's telling him now right now like I thought it was for friendship but it really wasn't it was for the very thing you thought that I was secretly coming up here to do that you made you hate me and the elves it doesn't explain it so he doesn't explain that color bimbo and gilgad were manipulating him and that's what he means so all jiren should think is that actually he was knowingly manipulating him from the start so he actually has a decent excuse to use but for some reason just no one takes it that way jiren knows because you know he's read the script with one of the other conversations were so he's not bothered and this is the thing that I I find Beyond frustrating as well it's like we've got all the truth out there so what's our I'm going to do to convince him he's like well you see you need to save my entire Race by providing that mithril durian accepts that 100 he doesn't for a second go wow that's pretty convenient isn't it that you can justify all of this by saying that if I don't give it to you you all die how do you know that it's a [ __ ] the minerals I don't even know how to classify it exactly but how do you know that this thing is saving your whole race he's like trust me bro I have sausage my mind flashes back to the scene in an episode who I've already forgotten which one it was for where's the one he goes he goes down into the minds of Maria he he finds out that they know about the mithril and jiren comes as he's sneaking around the tunnels and he makes him swear on the sacred Rock thing and on his mother's life and on everything else that he will tell no one about any of this and that he was in fact just here for friendship and Oliver and says all of this but the show took time out of its day to make this clear um and there's no payoff for any of this it doesn't remember what it did elrond doesn't seem to remember what he did and he doesn't understand what's happened to him you know what and jiren doesn't care about the thing that he insisted on swaron to begin with so uh apparently you don't remember something that completely sets that up perfectly in episode 2 elron swears that if he loses the the stone breaking challenge he'll be banned from all Dwarven lands forever and then he wasn't so there you go oh nothing means anything is the whole point all right anything value of promises in this world or wow well durian is an absolute pushover like everyone can do anything they want with him and you just like he can talk a bit of a big game but he just he gives up eventually every time it doesn't mean any of this stuff and it's really annoying because like you know that if he did have a spine he could probably rise to being the best character pretty quickly but oh well yeah and I thought it was funny that these two are like joking and laughing and trying to get all this stuff done they're like all right let's go back let's get this mithril sorted out we're gonna we're gonna do it I'd like it I thought it was hilarious there's just this shot of gilgalad watching them from above where he's just like my whole [ __ ] world is about to be destroyed these just these [ __ ] are just laughing like sort out this mitzril thing just like Jesus Christ he does look disappointed I think he was hoping that they got up to some other thing you know there was Meats uh being mentioned and it's like yeah oh come on elf ears here I think you're talking about I I I don't know I I must I can't quite hear him well maybe he's just like reveling in the fact that this is an insane world we thought we were about to all die but luckily the dwarves like found the exact thing we need five minutes ago yeah the thing we need always always just standing up there thinking I really [ __ ] like that table yeah and he just found out that he was lying so he's like wow what a dick but I'm not going to say anything manually with the ropes around their necks with just ropes around their necks that's not going to be that's not comfortable now think about what think about what it's like 100 miles down the road you're gonna be [ __ ] up mate no hang on they give it give me the give me your roll line right I was just thinking how could that have slipped in and I was reminded one time when like um I had a friend who was trying to write a story and it was like what what's a good way to write a story and I just wanted to mess with him because I knew he wouldn't know the context I said you could start it with it was a dark and stormy night it's like oh that's great and he writes that down right and I'm wondering like you know there was a writer's like all right we want Duran to like you know get upset what can I say and someone just was busy because they know that they have no idea yeah what about this slide showing up the subtext and the writer's like that's great they put it in and it's just the writers like do people eat raw meat like yeah yeah they actually prefer the raw a lot of the time yeah dwarves don't have to cook their meat if they do it's just for flavor they can eat here yeah so clearly the men eat raw meat they're just slathered in dirt all the time they probably live in caves and so for those who who don't know the context um it's been considered that uh it was a darkened stormy night is the worst uh beginning to any story ever written and so yeah saying it was a bright and sunny day it's uh actually the best way to start a story oh yes indeed the home runs considering it he's like um what do what do I do the way this is sold is that it was like almost like a coin flip it came so close but he decided yes he will go and they skipped to literally him on his horse and the war's about to go off and start when yep they told us that uh his decision to become king and Lead his man is going to be something he needs to speak on in like the council to convince numenor to really go through with the war and we didn't see any of that nope we totally lost an opportunity to get his perspective explained to other people as to why he made this decision why he kept it under wraps maybe what he was afraid of maybe what he stands to gain from this his acceptance of his duty any of that stuff could have had that could have had the other characters reacting to it could have had the numenoreans you know reactions to this being told to him hey now we have a man not an elf who has a legitimate like Royal claim to a throne in the Southlands that we're trying to all that nah don't need it we got boats to say oh [ __ ] I don't even know that they recognized that was a missed opportunity as a writer they'd probably be like no I wouldn't want to see that as well they just wanted to skip to the they I just wanted to skip to it he decided it and so there's Salen well yeah and and that's what we see these this shot so they got is it three ships in total that really truly is it yeah yeah three and uh I don't see why they would have reduced the overall amount of people who are heading to this war so that means they just packed the five people's or five ships with the people onto three ships right yeah I thought they'd go down to 300. I can't I just I just can't believe that you you started up this war effort you have 500 volunteers and then you're just like well two ships got blown up so you can't come now and it's like well they said that 500 for a reason why I thought yeah I thought they actually did filter them yeah in theory even with them and we know they have more ships but they're not willing to spare though I guess the city's like no we need it for transport and trade and you just can't you had 500 men and you're sending your queen regent award to a foreign continent I thought even with 500 men that was a bit of a risk but now you're going to send it with potentially only 300 men untrained as we've now seen with no idea what they're doing or what they're up against and you're sending your ruler on that ship which might just combust at any moment so number might have numerator and in the terms of the sizes of medieval armies right I would I think the very bare minimum for this expeditionary kind of force would be 5 000 and I'm not kidding and like a full-size Army would be minimum ten thousand twenty thousand is where you get to the all right now you don't know how many Orcs there are you have no idea absolutely right yeah this is because this is this is not billed as a Recon team we're gonna do some reconnaissance and scouting we'll bring some ships over they'll disperse we'll come pick them up in three months or whatever after they give a look around they're supposed to blend in and lay low no this is this is like a fighting this cavalry and also right it would not be out of the ordinary for uh the Orcs Army to be in numbers of a hundred thousand strong they have no idea no idea imagine going to war against a foe that could be anywhere from a hundred men to a hundred thousand you have no clue because remember Eve it's not even the numbers of the Orcs it's the existence of the Orcs that is alleged yeah it's not even the numbers you're right they have no proof of anything the opening monologue in episode one Galadriel tells us that Sauron is there and he's been biting his time and he's been Gathering his forces and like she knows well the monologue would have us believe she knows but there are rocks and there are a lot of them and they've been Gathering their forces for hundreds if not thousands of years so she's the one advising the queen to go to newmano she's the only person who can realistically say this is the kind of force we might expect to come up against like she's the only one who has any foreknowledge of this at all she's apparently fine with them sending 300 men and a queen to go and want to meet potentially thousands of Orcs which I mean that bit makes sense for Galadriel because at the start of episode one she was going to take on this same amount and people with like seven elves so this is a step up for it I was about to say you know the fact that she would she would annihilate all of mordor's forces yeah I'm actually half expecting it to quell Mountain Doom with the sheer coldness she'll throw a sword it's about to do but that'll be the arc she'll be like I'm a warrior but I will sacrifice my warrior and then she looks at the screen because that's why you don't see me doing it in the Lord of the Rings trilogy and then the I did it to close Mount Doom forever but then it woke back up I guess at some point I don't know shut up leave me alone I'm awesome that'll be the end as everyone keeps saying it's just like uh there's a little bit of a horse problem if you want us to believe you've got 300 men on there on those three ships like okay how are you getting 300 spaces across there yeah like 300 men is a stretch 300 horses is like piss off not a chance you've got you've had to Crane the horses onto the ship are there cranes on the other side to get them off yes they're just chocolate they make a slide or catapult catapult why not well I can't believe they put horses on creams um I thought it was flying when I first saw it I'm like what the [ __ ] is that a person I noticed a little roached between Thursday and Flash into my mind was Jurassic Park when they feed the cows to the Raptors so um yeah the official word is that a land deal did approve of a seal door coming onto these ships and so everyone's like wow that is inevitism then he's like no I earned it and if anyone this is what I mean like if you're just one of these guys you're on the ship you go oh how did he earn it what do you do like has there been a fight or something like what's going on well apparently someone was fishing and the ships exploded and he almost died but a sealed jumped in the water and saved him and you just be like what what do you mean so that's all we have to do I will not even that just what an absurd scenario who blew these things up and why to go I brigand oh okay oh whatever okay all right an elendiel knows he did all this it's like that's what he told him right and if it is such a prestigious act to be worthy of like a reward like this of a military position why did they put him as the stable hand which seems to be universally renowned as sort of the insulting position it's weird because that shouldn't be the it's annoying that they would all be like hey hey you're on a loser roll it's like a role is necessary but yeah stable hand and he ends up being in the Queen's Honor Guard next episode they don't care stable hand could be an incredibly important position he could be the one who is in charge of the horse Crane or the horse slider he's the one who has to put it up it's actually an honorable position for him to be in because without him they're not getting those animals off the ship yeah would the horse catapult even be built without him I don't think so oh good point and how corrupt is their armor look look it looks so shitshads it's so crap it's so crap unbelievably so what is it made out of like foam paper I really don't like it I'll add deals specifically it's just uh and people posted pictures of comparing the way he looks here and how he looks in the prologue with Lord of the Rings it's like it's [ __ ] night and day doesn't cover it yeah it's a it's the Sun versus The Abyss like why foreign and speaking of Arbor guess who has theirs back somehow the magic of I don't know who could it be Galadriel oh wow you found it it finally washed up on shores the numenorians who hate elves had like a specifically set of Elven armor set aside that's perfectly tailored to her size and proportions that happens to also have the uh symbol of uh the guy who made the summer rules on it the person that she hates but okay sure obviously it's got got made it's just why why in the world would this have been made and I just the The Smiths like her enough even though the Smiths are all the people that were the elves are horrible uh parade Festival whatever the [ __ ] get together it's just funny could have made it yeah halbern did it in a couple of hours probably oh sorry the thing is though clearly they no one would they hate elves they wouldn't make Elven armor so they must have had it just lying around and it's like okay then why are they keeping elving armor around if they hate it so much it's just well what what she did was Galadriel said I need some armor and they're like okay um fine and that was that well they oh they said why can't you make it yourself and she says because I cannot well because that's a lowly position that she wouldn't want to associate with yeah they the [ __ ] Queen gave her some [ __ ] or whatever they're like well maybe they're armor they gave her the normal armor then she's like I would like not to wear paper please and then they're like okay we'll give you steel I guess if this is weirdo she would have to very accurately convey what her armor looked like to these guys and they're like so do you want this random mail to be sticking out between the shoulder and the chest piece and she's like oh absolutely it looks cooler absolutely this is part of its design metal hair oh do you think that's what they're going for are you just memeing I don't know I really don't is it the third guy with the best experience one of them like everyone's impressed and amazed one guy what she walked past he does not give a damn this she's even there at all so much and they're having it like everyone is just like getting mesmerized wow look at her and it's amazing it's a come off incredible it just makes me hate her more yeah someone indistinguishable from humans unless you can see your ears pretty much yeah especially because it's tiny it's like she probably passed for like a look that guy there in the back the tallest one he does not care at all what is this this is this the [ __ ] that's gonna get us killed it is isn't it this is her okay all right and so after nearly six hours of breaking down more rings of power we're at the point where they're leaving the harbor to go to war from numenor which you'd be forgiven for thinking that's what was happening at the end of last episode but nope but how Brand's going with yeah so that that took an episode Hal brand was given specifically different colored armor because reasons even Man armor okay main character armor doesn't look terrible at least oh it still looks pretty bad not as bad as the white one in your eye but it's so in it's it's compared to them this [ __ ] is fire compared to that yeah awful there's they have a scale Obsession I think they do that with the scale mouse which is like okay it's not it's fine but take it easy not everything has to be it you can have it but it doesn't have to be everything that well they're so obsessed with the scale that they even have it printed on the Queen's undershirts yeah that was that's awkward it couldn't have just been cloth just have it be a cloth shirt I know yeah do they expect her to actually go into combat then you can [ __ ] calm down just give her a nice Regal looking bright a numenor color the blue shirt underneath it all speed fine padded like thin you know uh arming doublet underneath problem solved say do they actually expect it to go into combat I mean she is about to be attacked by a volcano so anything could happen it works and kills a bunch of them I was ready for it oh yeah I thought she was going to lead the Army when they charged the village oh yeah it because you know you know they wanted that episode is so bad this episode was so bad it's all so bad they're still amazed oh she's shaking his hand yeah we're gonna do it yeah let's go save the world and in that shirt you got to see kind of all the guys on board and and the size of the ship and it's like is there what maybe 20 men I know right and it's like so 80 or below I guess boats and stoves boats and stoves at this point to get everybody in they'd have to have like the lifeboats on the side just rolling along with them and then they trade out who's in those every so often because they just don't have enough room I could call them they call them window seats the people underneath would have to be stacked side by side like the slaver ships you know there might be some Mariners in the chat who will disagree with me but I'm sort of questioning the wisdom about trying to sail your way out of an enclosed Harbor um it's killed because that thought came to my mind as well where's the wind coming from like they're backed up high on the walls behind them there isn't going to be wind in them not like that a really big fan look at the entire town together and blow that's why they that's why they needed to get the approval of the people to go to war because they need the blow power of us I'm just thinking of you go in and out of these arches every time a ship has to come and go from the harbor which is like amazing defensively but you think the 99.99 of the time we're not under siege man this is going to be how many boats have we ruined just bumping into the sides of the canyon and hitting the bridges I guess they're really good at it supposedly so yeah a couple yeah rowing would have been the way that they did it also like you saw the bridge in perspective before and I was like those birds if you're going to fit through those arches because barely you saw him go in originally when they entered they came in and they were lowering the sales as they did it but it's almost like the sales are designed with the bridge in mind because they have the they have the Chisholm sales where they're sort of in like these two sections like that so in their curve so that's supposed to fit I think in kind of inside that's bizarre because also on the size of like ships these are these are pretty small you tell me so numenorians have no bigger ships than these and it's because they're just trapped in the harbor forever they built the bridge before they remembered to get the boats out of the harbor so they're just there now they're just party barges they just got converted into restaurants and things or something just to get from one side of the harbor to the other they can never leave that's episode five only three left wow that's really good it's really good this show is so bad like going through it again like we found a lot of stuff in addition to all but like the things I thought was bad in this episode it just gets worse this is incredible yeah um we've been pretty remarkable yeah and it is pretty good work on their part because it's so little happens it's like wow we've got millions of issues and you don't even make much of anything take place not the same thing I would say for the next episode of course uh it's really interesting to summarize the first five hours of the Show versus the sixth hour be like wait what it's like yeah that's that's what happened but um yeah since we're at the six hours we figure that uh we will now move into Super chats and then end the stream at a quote-unquote reasonable time and instead pick up coverage of the next episode as early as tomorrow you crazy kids in chat since we're trying to get this all done in one but failed probably which I suppose is a good thing to a lot of people anyway um but I will say since we're at the the sort of like the halfway mark Or Not halfway but uh we're at a break part of sorts that I would offer any of the guests if they wish to uh leave at this point because you have been here for a good six hours reasonable if you need to you know do life things it's completely up to you I will be one of those people unfortunately I better duck out guys but it has been a tremendously fun no problem at all thank you so much for hanging out good sir before you leave tell everybody where they can find you and what you're up to well well I'm up to something pretty cool at the moment guys I've got a graphic novel that's available if anyone's wanting to check that out you know I think I it will people really enjoy it it's uh uh graphic I don't know I I've Loved comic books my whole life and so having you know being part of making one is pretty awesome and also making one that's just top tier like if you see some of the art that Marvel and DC are doing it's such garbage uh there's been people sharing uh the art of a recent Robin Hood Robin you know Batman Robin comic it is ah unbelievable cringe and then I get to look at this art by that Mike has done for me in this graphic novel and it's like holy crap it's so cool uh so it's pretty cool I'm gonna um throw me a link I can get in the description yeah goes back up yeah absolutely um so yeah check that out if everyone interested that we're selling the hard cover for the price of a soft cover so it's a good deal but if you're wanting as well uh you can you can get something special and get the uh the leather bound I'm doing leather bound for the graphic novel and the second edition version of the novel as well and they are oh they look good to you beautiful and then of course you've got a nice watch right yeah Night's Watch is just exploding it's going great and we're doing you know in-depth reviews and everything so you can check me out there and of course shadowversity looking at all the medieval stuff and so uh I've already reviewed the weapons and armor and rings of power and the glad you'll fight scene oh it's so bad subjected to but hey we're nearing the end there's a light at the end of this tunnel in terms of uh She-Hulk and rings of power coming to an end it'll just be and or who's chilling out on his own that's what's going to be happening eventually oh yeah I might need to take a break after rings of power and House of dragon it's been full on and hey it's good I'm not complaining but oh I need to take a break I think afterwards yeah we've like doubled up evap episodes we're gonna have to we're gonna take a week off here to happen um but yeah yeah man thank you so much for joining us uh legendary as always and um if I don't catch you on tomorrow's one uh I will obviously see you with Gary for house house of the Dragon all right guys this has been awesome I'll catch up bye bye well well um I assume a little platoon you're gonna you're gonna be hanging out for the whole thing I think right is that we said oh and yeah unlike Chad I don't have a life so yes um unless I'm unless I'm intruding on your private chat time absolutely absolutely not well I mean several of these may very well be to you who knows uh and uh this Brew how you doing uh yeah I need to head out because if I'm back here again tomorrow then uh I've got a video to start and finish so sorry for cursing you in such a way but I very much appreciate your company it's been great I I did enjoy the song like this this episode it'll be really fast we'll we'll fly through this absolutely it's a big one it's like wow okay I never thought six hours on that episode it just takes a little bit longer but yeah uh before you go of course since you're a brand new guest nobody even knows what's going on here and only if I tell everybody about what what it is you get up to uh yeah a dispro on YouTube I tend to focus like I kind of do think it's sort of spoiled by bad content because I think bad ones make the best reviews and the best videos and I think that by far the most interesting to talk about you get something that's really good and I'm like yeah okay that's good I think you should watch it um I don't want to spoil it for you though so that's not really much I can talk about so on live streams I think uh good content makes better live streams because everyone talk about it you know what it's there but for videos I would rather just rip something apart and when it comes to that She-Hulk especially I've had some of the most fun times making videos for She-Hulk oh yeah dude it's rapid fire disaster like they fit more into three minutes at the start of the last episode was it safe to say like your your life has probably been strange for the past let's say a month or two-ish because like your name has come up a lot more than usual for me uh than it has ever before and it's like you you've got all these TV shows to cover at once and I keep seeing you on loads of different streams do you um do you happen to go outside and relaxation or is that not a thing not not the last couple of months oxygen is indoor smaller Checkmate prove it yeah gotcha but yeah my kind of channel is exploded I think in February I had 2.8 K subs and now I'm at like 87. so that's an excellent job man yeah I have no idea like what's been happening it's kind of been a roller well not a roller coaster ride because it's just been an insane awkward thing but uh yeah all these streams that I used to just watch up and on like Friday night tights I've watched for years and uh it's been kind of a surreal Journey especially last few months yeah man that's one of the things that's really cool about rings of power she holding the others coming out is that a bunch of new creators can now come out as a result of being passionate enough to sort of be like okay this is [ __ ] by the way I'd like to talk about why well it's one of the opportunities you get with all this sort of stuff but um yeah I only started reviewing stuff because uh I was really into The Wheel of Time I've read the books over like decades and Amazon came along and just annihilated that uh and so is that child yes I I genuinely think that was a trial run for this a lot of the marketing was the same a lot of the kind of the mystery box oh guess who's the guess who's the dragon guess who Sauron have been the same way through um I think they did see that as their little mini project well now here you are reviewing incredible shows every night every day even possibly and uh yeah like I said um I don't know whether to apologize or not but uh it'll be lovely to see you tomorrow as well to talk about the other episode oh yeah I will definitely be back hey anything that lets me see Galadriel get hit by a fiery cloud of ash from a volcano well that's something to come in most that's absurd why would that happen that would never happen that would be where would that come from they wouldn't just invent a volcano to do that that would be crazy can you imagine though if they did just they LED everyone on oh no we're doing this for five seasons and then just end it halfway through the first that's how you're getting this was the plan from the start yeah this was the story we wanted to tell yeah we call it subversive a lot of you guys uh really liked that let me experimented with what are you trying again I mean if they pulled out on this one I think the people would genuinely cheer so might be the first one that people actually like well I mean if we're being completely honest if it was announced tomorrow no more episodes are coming out all the reactions be from certainly from us a lot would be like okay like okay this will be remembered by no one what a shame why it's like oh that's my favorite thing about it it is a case of at this point he's just kind of seeing how much money they're willing to throw away like knowingly because at first like a billion dollars we could make something amazing but then the reception that this has got and what they've ended up with they now know what they're going to get for future seasons and I don't see how they can turn this around unless they just get rid of so many of the people that made it and so it's going to be how much money yeah just keeps going and going and going yeah because wheel of Time's Got season three and season two isn't even out and I think they're doing the same thing with that so they're not Beyond just throwing away piles of cash um how much can they keep that going forever all the time if they got enough to adapt they can just keep going uh there's so many books yeah they could do it for like 14 Seasons if they wanted to they weren't sorry Wheel of Time fans yeah well the first season it's so because in this they were like oh well you know we've chosen something where we think we're just filling in the gaps but Wheel of Time is literally specifically written down word for word action for action and they after the episode two did an entirely different thing not unrelated to the books in every single way change the magic system changed everything about it so the whole idea that oh no if this was detailed down in a book somewhere at tolkiens they would have followed it no no way well uh good luck of course with that as well covering season three of [ __ ] real Wheel of Time because you said you got started with all the time right so I imagine that you'll definitely become oh yeah I'm not like if what if the only person that sees those videos is me I'm still gonna do them that's I am heavily into Wheel of Time oh yeah I assumes for rings of power we've got five years of that at least it could be a gap year who knows Well yeah if face well if considering they're moving countries now and this like the studio isn't built it's probably going to be a two-year gap between Seasons so this could go on for 10 years 10 years it brings a power 10 years until we're allowed to let it be forgotten imagine that chat it's 20 32 and the season the series finale for The Rings of power Joseph fritzel's basement sort of wondering where the beatings have gone why they've stopped that's just oh that's going to be a really strange experience we're all going to be like old men by then in 10 years finally we put Rigs of power to rest I wouldn't defeated it at that point there's like 30 viewers and 26 of them are reviewing it like negatively now that's probably she-hulk's current situation yeah yeah I think so I get that impression they've put out some hyper cringe haven't they they're desperate oh what an account good luck to them I guess that if you want to revolve your personality around just a She-Hulk of all things to defend that that's where you've pitched your tent that's the hill you're dying on is She-Hulk priorities yeah man thank you so much for uh hanging out with us six hours six hours is still a long time it's not 12. but um normal shows actually do run I I don't know if you've heard about this there are some podcasts that go for an hour forget about this it's a myth as far as I'm concerned anything well yeah so thank you very much and I suppose we shall see you tomorrow uh yeah pleasure to be on yeah see you later thank you very much catch you dude which leads oh go ahead I will say I'm drawing and I drew over my sketching layer I drew it on the same layer so all that work is gone I have to redo it I'm feeling pretty sad about it all right oh yeah oh I'm not happy about that well you learned something new which is I don't know don't have a lapse that causes you to do that so there's not really anything I can do to account for that yeah what was the lesson here you just have to be angry is just yeah a little bit because it's kind of nothing it's like you gotta do it again yes could you have learned from it not really like it's kind of kind of uh worthless I mean I guess I got because as as chat may have because it hasn't been acknowledged yet cassowary Fergie for Halloween Gary that's uh that's the um that's the yeah you don't have anything scary where's your little horns or something that's what you got to do oh um yeah I've been meaning to actually ask the guy who does uh the channel art I need to actually yeah get him to put some horns on me or something you've got plenty of time so it's not not uh you know just started October is true it is yeah we take it very seriously here it's very important Halloween is a thing to be taken seriously it's a very fun Festival but by the time I ask him by the time it's done it could well be Halloween itself and then what I've got like two days to use it so no I should actually get on that and next year uh yeah true it will be reused we get mileage out of ours that's for sure a pumpkin head or something which people would know I'm from pretty good our avatars on Karen efat movies which is out by the way Chad if you did not know uh the release today before the stream and you'll be getting an ifat movies per week until the final week of Halloween we get two I think yeah final destiny be excited because you should because if it's out that means that things went well because Final Destination 2 is still getting uh pushed back with copyright it's a nightmare um the latest one was weird it didn't get clipped for like two days and the message I got was it has been manually reviewed and they have found a six second clip but uh is like enough to block it worldwide and I was just like um okay you seem a little obsessed at this point so uh yeah for anybody who sees maybe a little bit of an obsessive protection of copyright on any of these films that's why but hopefully anyway uh I'm gonna start reading these super chats then well all right all right the first one of the night is I love you all this is a threat all right I love you I love you you got like a knife in his hand yeah gladriel told me she loved me I I feel like that would be a threat doc comedy idea the vegan cannibal he only eats vegetables oh no again he only eats vegans no vegetables a vegan cannibal only eats vegans you can countable and eats vegetables really sad that wouldn't be very sporting no because carrots can't run away no that yeah I suppose it's no less sporting than yeah just plants eating plants I suppose uh invite random film talk I'm not sure who that is but who knows maybe one day okay take a look uh [ __ ] marry kill Angel season 4 phase four and Jaws four I mean we gotta kill phase four the worst one okay that's how this usually makes some sense uh yes well out of all three I guess we'll keep All Season before there's some stuff in it that's actually pretty good for season five all right well it's just yeah that's kind of the nature of it you can't have season five without season four so I guess Jaws four will be the the one that gets [ __ ] I have no idea what that means but there you go man at the time when I was watching that I really didn't see how I could make it be saved I really didn't I I thought it was doomed no one can uh so like what happened to Karen's kids no parents no Uncle no other relatives the film just forgets to exist someone doesn't care about them they don't matter it's not a very good movie you could say I haven't seen it by the way I haven't seen it yet I just woke up and pretty much did this I haven't seen it either yeah I'm gonna watch it while I make dinner I think the people were pretty happy with it as was I it was a it was a fun one glad it came out well Matt and I learned to think that we we may not have even watched it longbone a lot of appreciation for Jay long gone because it's in the video where she suggests and we all go yeah sure okay never would have happened simply struck gold uh have a nice General Conference shad uh hope you did or whatever I don't know all right Chad imagine when training in episode 5 she said control is more important than strength a hard strike means nothing if it can't hit took me two minutes I would be stronger than like discounting arms when it comes to fighting yes everyone's pretty overrated and see if sarin would have paid attention to his arms in that fight I mean yeah the top comment of the Karen uh if I move is right now by the way is an extended cover to try to figure out how much effort Karen would have gone to to get Confederate soap well it probably isn't easily stumbled across is it no it's just funny you specifically have to yeah well you she when she goes on Amazon it's like soap oh wait sorry Confederates that's right let me go to Amazon look that up confed ER soap and now you're on a watch list yes um yeah it's just normal soap it's as if the word Confederate was never involved I'll put Confederate flag soap and if you want to know the context of this you can go watch the Karen efat movies trust me you'll love it what's the um the Chinese version of Amazon of course Ali is Alibaba I think I've used that once you can find all kinds of weird stuff on there probably on there uh obligatory she-hulk's feat Super Chat yum all right do you I suppose she has large green feet that is true um hey Molly did you like mitosis's God of War 4 video I think I did when it came out yeah um I can't remember if I agree with everything on I feel like I often disagree a lot on I feel like that people are way too harsh to the mechanics in that game especially when comparing it to uh the original trilogy as if there are no problems with the original trilogies ones for the design choices they have made uh to help maybe explain what I'm trying to say is that people highlight a lot of restrictions that happen as a result of the choices they made in God of War 4. as if that's not the case for literally every mechanical system that whenever you choose to do anything that you've given yourself things that are difficult to overcome one of the most common things that everything has to face when it's like an action game of third person nature of some kind is camera camera's like one of the first main ones that [ __ ] gets in the way I already played three quarters right now I've got all one the camera's been an [ __ ] like in almost the whole game and it looks different in small ways but sometimes in ways that we really didn't need to be like where they chose to aim it and uh camera is difficult it's um it's kind of just a it's I think uh Matthew Patos has talked about it in his most recent video about a contact sensitive buttons that um one of the difficulties of transitioning from a 2d to 3D game is that um just by virtue of like how much complexity that adds it just makes things more challenging and one of them is cameras get more difficult in 3D um because like in a 2d space it's always from the side well and generally it's from the side or it's from the top with a really clear view of what's in front of you you can see clearly what's in front of you and behind if you when there's no input to control the camera it's always going to show you everything that you need to see or the mechanics will at the very least be built around this limited space right but then once you throw the camera in it's like oh well um I guess the challenge with uh something like God of War is that the I don't I haven't played enough for four but I imagine that the old games use the face buttons for combos whereas the new game it's kind of hard to have face button servers like the way to do Combos and attacks because the button the finger you need to use the face buttons is always gonna it's gonna be the same one that you use to control the camera correct and so like any point where you need to move the camera it's a moment when you're not fully in control of us that's the reality though right that's almost the binary either yeah the game has control of the camera and so you can focus on fighting but that means the camera doesn't always go where you would personally choose for it to go or you can give the player full control but then they need a third finger or third um you know what I mean well or you just have to account for for that you just have to account for uh yeah it's it's a reason why in the PS3 360 generation the uh triggers became way more prominent in games yeah yeah because like a shooter look at that right you move um and then you have yes your attack buttons and most of the time shoulder yeah exactly um whereas uh because I mean there was a Tran use Ratchet and Clank as an example I remember uh in the old games you press the circle button to shoot um but then deadlock changed it to you can use Circle but you also can use the uh the shoulder buttons um and obviously the reason why they did that is because that game was combat heavy and it just made more sense to use the shoulder buttons and it's just like the more that games move towards that combat heavy Focus because you see an old like Crash Bandicoot has a fixed camera you don't control the camera it does the fixed camera in the same way that um 2D Platformers do essentially uh the difficulty is that in a 3D space judging depth is uh tricky right yeah because it's kind of why you need a lot of visual cues that's why crash four had like a highlighted Circle beneath you so that there was like absolutely no confusion as to where you are but the fact that it even needs that kind of says something about um navigating a 3D space it was a it was a part that think of just I'll remove most of the context to try and make it as simple as possible because it would be so much easier if I could draw it but I think it's just four straight platforms that go one in front of another in front of another in front another and just have to jump across them and the camera is behind Kratos obviously and as you move across them it follows him it's exactly let's say three meters behind him and it just follows him across all of them easy but this is God all one now and then you need to go back and so they haven't made it so the camera does like a 360 or 180 flip so that now it's behind you on the other side so you can you know jump it just backs up as you head toward the camera can you understand what I mean yeah I know what you mean I don't [ __ ] hate that I absolutely hate it yeah that sucks um it's not enough space I can't like feel in control of the platforms at all I just have to kind of hope and pray that I am I'm remembering it right well it's one of the challenges of making games how much control should be afforded to the player versus how much should be entirely in the hands of the developer in terms of what you can see they'll have several segments where they go bird's eye and I think they just want to not go Birds though because it's not as dare I say cinematic it's more gamey um there might be a few factors cinematic uh resources maybe bird's eye is a bit too uh intensive because it's too much that you can see it could be the reason why God of War would tuck the camera in so close is probably because they wanted to pump the visuals up yeah I'm almost in that is a huge motivation for it but that's that's I guess what I mean I just consider it a really dull take to be like because of the fact you have to control the camera it means that you could split focus on the camera and attacks and that's what ruins like the whole system forgotable foreign exactly and that's what I was trying to say is that any mechanical system you choose there are going to be drawbacks and pre points of praise for like you know why they chose it and how well they executed but um yeah the the first three because like there was another one where um the camera was set to think of like a map that is a half a donut and uh you are on like the left Edge enemy on the right Edge and you're coming to meet in the center but wherever you are the camera will like horizontally have you as you're moving through the donut aimed let's say always aimed with like donut would have been split this is I feel like this is going to be so hard to understand because I yeah I don't think I follow donut you got that right donut think about that as a map so all of that is walk on a ball now it's a 2d space think of it that way you can't go in the middle okay yeah we can go to big circle now cut in horizontally in half and remove the top half now you go to like a u right okay yeah now you spawn at the top of the left side enemy spawns at the top of the right side yeah all right the camera think of the object of the camera existing on the bottom end of the donut but it points up to where the donut would have been cut in half but it's it sits on its uh y-axis or x-axis to wherever you are on this X is across okay so it's in uh it'll always be lined up to where you are at the time and so hopefully that translates if you come down to the center of that half donut as a character and the enemy is coming down also he might just be off I can't see him necessarily because the camera isn't zoomed out enough it's too close to me and he's just outside of it so yeah he might have a big ranged attack and it just hits me off camera and I'm just like oh well great and it's like yeah was your mistake for not you know and then they do the thing this thing that I [ __ ] despise oh great the focus system doesn't work on this enemy yeah well don't use it yeah like if um if the game glitches and like you know guns just don't work on one random enemy you have to use grenades instead in this moment because the boss is glitched and the response is just yeah easy and it's like what if I don't have grenades at that point in the game it's like yeah well what if I rely on Focus for my combat and it's like and it's supposed to work it's like yeah well don't really complain about it that's the other thing I wish people would just be more willing to be like yep that's not a good thing but that's there unfortunate we can get people really defensive like nah or offensive like uh game discussion maybe we'll have some more of them as uh once Callisto protocol on the Dead Space remake come out or the Resident Evil for me Remick oh Resident Evil 4 remake is that space was all right considering um it was so it was kind of closer and over your show if it's close and over your shoulder then it's harder to have it be tis me uh but yeah the further away you get from a character then that's where you start to have the problems more and more what do you mean he wants to be argued though that the further you go away the more clarity you have in general oh yeah that's the power I'm confused funnily enough that I mod my dead space to push the camera away for the back so I don't know what you mean um if your camera is in terms of like clipping against environments and stuff the closer that your camera is to like a first person view the less likely it will be that you're going to get clipping issues because it's closer into where your character is but as you pull the camera back there's more and more opportunities it increases the distance where obstacles can exist between the character in your camera um that's one aspect yeah obviously there's like the whole idea is it gives you a [ __ ] ton of benefits by having the camera for the back yeah absolutely yeah um and then obviously you'd have like adaptive cameras that move with the location or they'll blur out the walls that you end up putting between you and the camera so you can still see you that is something that happens in other games one thing I've ever understood Mario put silhouettes on walls that were between you and the camera just to let you know where your character is it's like I wish all games had that at the lowest level doing that for ages yeah like a long time I'm not expecting everybody to be able to do the perfect system ever but can you at least do that just that instead of the Dark Souls one where the camera shoves itself up right in between your ass and the wall and just goes it's just like yeah it looks great that's real great I'm glad I wonder if it is just a matter of um because I I'm pretty sure everybody knows this but like Super Mario 64's development went like this they spent a year figuring out how to make Mario fun to control in 3D and then they started building levels I don't know how many games are being made where you're like fundamentally working on like that core and trying to streamline it at trying to figure it out and basically make it like as as good as it can possibly be and then from there you start building content I'm not sure if they still do that for like the newer Mario games maybe not but I can imagine imagine like an odyssey that they spent a long time just making Mario fun to control and figuring out how to make sure that he could interact with the space and then you know start building levels and and start figuring out what you need to do not all geometry is made the same Muller good thing I didn't say that it was um they really bundled that one you shouldn't have said that yeah I regret saying that same I held my tongue because I knew that someone in chat would point out how stupid that was that luckily they did and I can now say I'm sorry for saying all geometry is made the same that was my bad uh eye rags hello as little platoon read the 1967 essay by Roland bathus called the death of the author I have yes I believe I haven't read it for a long time but I have read it before are we are we at death of the author part of the evening well no this is I'm guessing they're just curious to ask you that anyway because of the yeah yeah I know I was I was genuinely I apologize that I was basically I didn't Pace myself properly last time I was about a bottle of whiskey in by the time we got to death of the author I was kind of interested in sort of yoga's take on how strictly you apply uh apply that term yeah we're we're absolute on it extremists we're crazy people but uh most people are say push it to like 90 they'll they'll let slip in I think the most valued like a most intelligent most in touch artists that have the best takes they'll be like no they take his gold and they should be considered like almost Canon and then you have people like I said who would like twin perfect who are like just absolute whatever artist says whatever about their work that is the truth which is that's just not true nobody holds that perspective to be fair he might he actually like he might be insane enough no I don't believe it also but I don't believe how do you deal with a person who will bite those bullets without realizing what they mean like um because all you need to do is just find the one example where they'll change their mind what we did with the the George Lucas one and then he like went back on it in his Discord he was like no that's a stupid example now and it's like okay I I guess it's just that there will always I think that you always believe uh there's it's kind of like the same as when somebody says no there's no such thing as good or bad like and then they'll always default like you would default to it at some stage because everybody to some extent believes in death of the author yeah I don't know what it means to engage with because if you don't then what is the point of even watching the media just watch the interviews or the things where the author explains what it's about and then you got it because when you say it's zero like a hundred percent or zero percent death of the author it's like what is the point of the work just tell us the author what they think about any given topic like and then that's it you got it and I wouldn't look to hurt anyone's feelings but I think if you really dug on this like dug deep on this concept you can't choose anything other than zero or one hundred pretty much I don't know what the middle ground looks like really no I don't because if if the breach is something they say casually versus something that is in the book those two things are always going to be like what is the halfway point of those a leaf look that is comes with the book maybe it's like is that kind of assistant well I know there's no definitive Middle Point my instinct is to go for middle point though with with anything like death of the author um because I know I know it's a wishy-washy liberal position today but uh I have to have a couple of those um my my fear with anything to do with that as the author is you know this comes from a particular school it's actually born of critical theory death of the author I mean it comes from Bato in in the 60s is developed as a concept as we now know it's a day by I think directly by Foucault um and and by uh DeRidder as well she has quite a lot to say on on death of the author um and so and you can trace its roots back to it goes back to sort of Camp's Aesthetics but Oscar Wilde sort of popularizes it in the 1800s because it's an outgrowth because at least as I understand anyway death of the author is this outgrowth of this concept of aesthetic autonomism and that's the idea is Oscar Wilde put it and he put it like this for legal reasons that you cannot judge the author of a work by the moral content of that work in other words that's sort of the the groundwork that separates out moral content of work from moral intent of author Oscar Wilde sort of does this for like quite practical or pragmatic reasons because he had to do it to try and Stave off lawsuits um but it's developed sort of in the 60s and my issue with it taken to uh taken too literally or taken into great an extent is that I'd argue that's sort of the that's where we are at the moment the problem with we have with so much art at the moment is precisely that we have abandoned any conception of authorial intent rings of power is quite a good example of this I mean if you were to say well I'm talking quite clearly said and thought and believed this about the world and this quite clearly impacts how he writes and therefore the moral underpinning of The Lord of the Rings he would then turn to rings of power and you'd say well that's quite clearly contrary to authorial intent um which I think is at least a sustainable position to take the problem if you're going for 100 death of the author is that you can't really criticize bastardizations of uh the work you can't really draw a distinction between interpretation and the work itself because the work exists independently in the mind of any reader but then how are we the judge objectively our artistic Merit based on artistic intent which I think has to come into the question of artistic Merit what I would say is that I think that um I think that the goal that I would have is to try and separate them into two different discussions like where you could have the discussion about authorial intent or you know questions of what or or not have been factored into an adaptation or or like when choosing to I don't know do a follow-up to a story I think that all those questions so I think it's a conversation that's worth having I just think that when um the conversation gets uh merged with a discussion about a stories like merits internally that you can just end up in some murky area where it's kind of hard to work through disagreements on those types of things so it's just I find it's easier to try and make them two different discussions basically yeah and obviously we went over it last night but there's there's so many problems to have to deal with including we're not limited to if the author provides a contradictory statement about the state of being in the world for any particular item or thing in general uh yeah which statements to be taken as true you have that problem quite sort of uniquely I think with Tolkien the question of sort of can but there's sort of verges into questions of canonicity in that sense I mean talking about multiple versions of multiple myths many characters have multiple names multiple lineages um and then the job is you know to decide and it is up to the reader to a degree or in this case I think it's up to Christopher talking primarily to decide which of these are canonical and which of these are apocryphal or which of these are sort of ersats versions of What Tolkien wrote but I don't think that really answers the question of whether or not the intent the moral intent behind it can be completely separated out from the work of art that's why I was sort of saying I'm sort of instinctively minded toward a middle ground because I think we should bear it in mind it's the old sort of critical approach sort of pre pre-1940s really which takes the meaning the moral purpose of the author much more strictly than we've we've come to take it today okay um George Orwell wrote this essay called I think it's the frontiers of Art and propaganda which sort of sketching out part of the difference in approaches sort of pre and post 1940. um and he sort of celebrates the idea that new criticism as it was emerging in the 40s is much more focused on reader it's an understanding of the political uh Inspirations of author but not reducing Works to the author's uh sort of moral and political opinion I'm I'm sort of with Orwell in that it's a kind of it's a bit of a paradox but I think it's a sustainable Paradox I think you can hold a middle ground or death of the author I don't think you should ignore it because ignoring it leads you to the place we're now in but I don't think you should Hove too strictly to it because that denies the validity of artistic interpretation so my my sort of stubborn Middle Ground undefined ill-defined sorry though it is would be I have regard to but don't be restrained by I would argue rings of power isn't a result of ignoring Tolkien it's completely [ __ ] up talking because they've clearly got some stuff in there correct like they've actually got it's almost frustrating is that they actually line up some things even if they're smart no well what are we talking about here I mean I think superficially yeah absolutely even though some of the correct names but if you're talking about I mean they're the Sauron argument from earlier is kind of a useful example they're sort of safer to sake of argument we don't know it yet but for the sake of argument that uh this brew and Chad were right and the Galadriel is going to turn Sauron Evil by her own manipulations now you can say there's a superficial uh alignment with Tolkien in the both of these people existed in his works and they have the same names but my point would be if you understand what Tolkien was getting at about the fundamental nature of evil which is really what he is writing about that complete that's not just sort of that's not a [ __ ] up of talking that is a betrayal of talking I think you can say that's a betrayal precisely because you have adherence to the moral intent behind the Lord of the Rings uh sorry so I'm I'm saying that you you were in intended uh assert that it's death of the author that links to the the Amazon writers would probably employ it and thus that gives them the power to make such a horribly bad Unfaithful lack of accuracy adaptation I don't think they would deploy it I think but I but I think that that's the pervasive attitude toward art is death of the author so it's not that they would consciously sit there and say well I am using death of the author as a defense sorry 411 Thunder or anything like that weird takeaway TD says I'll ruin your Mythos in a minute maybe I would probably agree with you if you said death of the author is a way for the taikoi you might be using as a way to just [ __ ] up the thing he's adapting even including things that are part of a continuity I would probably agree with that one not quite with rings of power I think that they would all claim when making it that they're like no we love Tolkien we were adapting his work it's just some stuff that needs to be updated I uh I actually think I don't know that I would say that death of I get the impression with um some recent media that you you are kind of expected to view it and consider it in relation to like the broader landscape or the statements of the creators rather than taking it for its own thing like I could imagine that a lot of the ways that people watch like for instance I'm not sure that anybody could actually tell you what like the theme of Thor love and thunder was without referencing interviews or anything the same with Doctor Strange um what was it knives out right like a lot of people's Praise of night outs is like word for word just the Ryan Johnson's explanation behind the motive of making that film and like the structure that he wanted to do I get the impression that like death of the author might actually be less prevalent now than it may have been a while ago where like people will be very quick to reference statements that are made about a film by its writers or directors so was it that's a cop-out you know the writers don't care about token that's not actually like I don't actually know that I don't know that yeah I can't know that necessarily even from looking at their work I can't know that yeah they could just be bad at making TV shows they might love Tolkien but they're just bad at their job and remember we can have people who love the same work for completely different reasons and think that they're respecting it when they do completely different things absolutely yeah I mean well then you're sort of veering into the complete subjectivity of death of the author itself in that one just just picking up on what free finish there I think you know there's a difference between something that's being created now and the adaptation of something which predates it or pre-exists in uh I think you're probably right in the sense that if it is a modern production which makes absolutely zero [ __ ] sense but so the director comes out afterwards all the writer comes out afterwards and say well I intended this about it and the film only makes sense with that reference and yeah you're probably right for that new creation it sort of subsists on the on the the application of death of the author um I'm talking about uh adaptation I think probably more than the creation of brand new works uh and we are we you know we are in a world of interminable and unending sequels and prequels and adaptations and reimaginings but when you get to the point where you're saying well of course I adore and I respect talking but I'm updating him for a modern audience well I would I think I would classify that in some sense killing the author in the act and that's like that's the verb I guess maybe that's a different because I I in my mind I don't know like whenever I see the thing where it's like we got to adapt it we gotta update it for a modern audience I don't know if I would say that that's death of the author or rather something else I don't know what do you do when you kill the source as opposed to the writer of the source like when you intent is not something that should be factoring into I guess I could see how they're somewhat related and that you're essentially saying I'm not taking into account the authorial intent and what I'm making but I guess the thing is I imagine a lot of people would counter is well no I am I'm just updating you know I'm taking what they meant and I'm I'm updating it to our to Modern audiences which I mean to some extent that might just be like an impossible statement right how do you how do you substantively change it without changing it you know if someone remade it's kind of circular you are changing it by virtue of making changes to the material yeah and if someone made a New Hope today by NASA necessity it would have to be different than when it was made back then for just all kinds of reasons technology notwithstanding there's lots of other things but when they come to the scene where Han is going to shoot Greedo if they engage with death of the author then Han will shoot first yes so that creates a bit of a problem I think for the people who value death of the author because it takes it like respects the stories because it creates a tangle because that's an example of when death of the author is actually damaging and I saw someone say I don't believe in death of the author except when the author is wrong about the content that's what death of the author pretty much engages in it's like we're going with the source if we're checking the author's statements against the source to see if they're right and we'll only believe them if they are then the source is all that matters whole point of death of the author is that you can disagree with the authorial like the claims created that's that's like the point of death of the author so for instance if I don't know if someone said like yeah the theme of my story was about love lost you know it's like well no it seems like the theme based on the story that you've told is actually about like I don't know the dangers of unchecked power or something and then you have all of the references to support it you just say to the author okay you say that but like I just fundamentally disagree two people Britain in Chad just said the author is never wrong two different people said that so is George correct did Greedo shoot first the author is never wrong what does that mean well yeah I'm sure nobody actually agrees with that right at least the thing so if Zack Snyder said like yeah the main star of Man of Steel was Green Lantern it's like ah who see he's never wrong so Clark Kent is actually I don't know Hal Jordan there is and it wasn't a blue suit it was a green suit they just said yes burrito shot food that's you don't you don't believe that there will be an example that you disagree I'm sorry Han shot first that is Canon treated and shoot fist [ __ ] it spider isn't an author So when you say death of the author you're referring to the creator of a like creative word typically a death it does include directors and screenwriters absolutely artists I don't know one of our Prime examples James Gunn about suicide squad he's a director and a writer so that's what we're referring to when we say death of the author and you know this as well like if you if you disagreeing with that I gotta I gotta quote uh Andy Dufresne you're being obtuse the whole idea is that Han knew he was there to kill him so Han took the first shot because he's that [ __ ] cunning we didn't need to edit him awkwardly with his head jutting out to the side dodging a shot tonight God that was awful it's terrible hard shot first arm shot first yeah and let's think it's it's it's hard shot first is death of the author as a I would call it a primary example that everyone engages in but I can understand the trepidation with engaging with it because I would never associate rings of power as a consequence of death of the author but I guess I understand someone believing that that could be the result because uh it's not quite I guess I could see in the sense of maybe the conclusion that comes from the perspective of death of the author is because we've tried to lay it out when we talk about it it's like you can talk about the respectfulness and faithfulness of an adaptation we just think that it should be a different discussion from a turmerics as its own thing maybe if you fully subscribe to death of the author you start to completely disregard that but like that's that's a I guess that's a choice at the end of the day right like that's going to be your subjective value judgments about like what matters to you in a story and maybe faithfulness doesn't matter that much to you I don't know that you could argue that somebody is more or less correct for having that perspective um though yeah sorry I don't know if there's a if there's a solid distinction between death of the author and disagreeing with the author so if you take like the Han Greedo example um okay so what we know what the original authors the author's original intent was sorry um the author decided to update the depiction of his intent uh we can disagree with whether that was the right choice but we are still disagreeing with very much a living actor and I mean a living actor not in the sense of George Lucas is alive but also creating the works that he is um that we are arguing over so that you can disagree with his choice in that regard and you can say I think aesthetically and for writing reasons for all other reasons this was the better the original version was better I don't know that that's necessarily engaging in death of the authoring quite so unricked away as to to help out the discussion would be on like what canonically happened in the story of Star Wars did Hano Greedo shoot first if you asked George Lucas the author he will tell you Greedo shot first or I'm not even sure if you'll say that today but for the sake of the argument let's say he's still saying that and uh many I was about to say we many of the fans would say no George anshoff first doesn't matter if you release your Definitive Edition your ultimate edition which usually supersedes in terms of Canon I mean it's up to the Creator what Thing Remains Canon right VIP holder um so you can say like I don't okay what you have to say about what is Canon which is kind of the attitude we have with Disney Star Wars a lot of people but you know we've been over how like defining Canon it's gonna have very little meaning outside of your own head Canon if you if you say it's only what I think happened but yeah that is a case where we say uh now you're good you're good George and have your ideas we'll have ours differences George changed his mind it's like yeah that's the thing if if the scene remained the same and there was no additional version released he could say that and it wouldn't change what happens in there and so that would be a case of just he's describing events wrong but he's still the author that's when it creates problems so that then there's a sort of a subordinate question there as to you know the question of death of the author and sort of the the ongoing authorial interest in a work so like I don't think to say that George Lucas changed his mind about what he would have done with the original version of Star Wars does not change the fact the original version of Star Wars is what it was and bears the the uh sort of the the lowly stamp of his original intent um I don't think that you could say well because he changed his mind on this and we don't agree uh the the fact that a contradictory versions of events means that authorial intent doesn't come into play the original work of art stands and the intent that's behind it is still uh it's what it's still imbued with the intent that was behind it um and yeah I'm still sort of very clumsily sketching up that this sort of Middle Ground that I claim that I hold without being able to Define it but that's all consideration someone asked me by the way how do I Define canon then so basically I think it's derived from property rights right that's where I'm getting it from the owner and I've admitted that there's problems with that because as soon as your IP sort of protection runs out how is Canada defined then it's like I don't think there's any meaningful way to define it at that point is Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey exactly um and if someone said it's very meaningful to say whatever your head count is like no no of course you can run with headcan and I was just trying to find anything to appeal to this more definitive and less subjective and I think well yeah I think I've often said I just can't treat solo as Canon I just can't do it like it's not that's not like a conscious choice I just don't believe it yeah um but I mean it's Canon it is at least it's Canon right now under Disney's ownership of Star Wars uh when when someone says like in the future of the Jurassic Park series with the escaping fire locusts or something just like no well no but on the other hand they are and they did and they were um I guess my problem with the full the wholesale acceptance of death of the author is simply that it is I cannot see a way or any check or balance which stops that leading purely into the Realms of subjective interpretation without reference to any objective standard I mean it was it was developed along the lines it's subjectivism sort of writ large that's the school of thought it emerged in uh it's it is part of critical theory it is a subjectivist idea um and I'm saying but it's born of objective roots or at least attempted objective Roots so like this Middle Ground trying to stake is between the old-fashioned aesthetic autonomism and the critical theory developed death of the author which I don't know that you necessarily have to go down that but if you are going to go 100 death of the author I think then you have to explain how you make any objective judgment uh about the quality of the work of art or the intent of the work of art or the message of the work of art um I think that you can I think that well I guess uh like let's say that we have a story that was written by as far as we can tell that there is no known author it's just a story that was written by Bill no last name and there's no references at all to like his political perspective or his moral framework or anything and then all that we have to go off of in terms of judging I guess the moral of the story is uh what's in the story um yeah like how do we do that I or rather can we is that impossible because we don't know who he is or what he believed in I think the answer to that would be no it's entirely possible to pull meaning from a story that has no I mean I feel like we could just point to examples of fables that exist that we don't know who invented them um we don't know who came up with them how do we derive the morals from them it's like well just from what's in the story but then you're deriving the author the author's intent though aren't you by doing that um well I mean let's put it this way I can look at a film and not know anything about what the author actually believes and I can still make judgments about what they probably intended based on what's in the story yeah what happens if I watch The Suicide Squad and I conclude the intent with polka dot man and then I get told by the author I was wrong about the intent so if he was dead and was unable to tell me that would I have just been wrong about his intent the whole time if we derive intent almost from the assessment of the stories like even if there's no reference to this person outside of this one work but what if it turned out bill was risen from the grave and he was like your interpretation of every one of my intents of the story is actually wrong so what was I holding on to at that point just wrong interpretations or intentions arguably um or the projection of your own intent onto you know events that you're witnessing in that world you'd have no way to be able to L right I thought sorry I thought you said if he came back from the dead and Tall no if he didn't sorry before he comes back to the dad you'd not have any way of telling oh yeah no no that's fine then you wouldn't have any way of saying for sure what the intent was I mean it's a that is a matter of ultimately subjective interpretation but not all subjective interpretation is is equivalently uh founded or well supported an argument that's dug this out into this thing on opinions isn't it not all opinions are equivalently worthwhile they're not all as well supported by the evidence or the argument you would have to look through and you could say based on the available evidence of the story in front of me these are the values that seem to come through this is the value system that I think emerges from that therefore these are what I would take the author's political or moral uh suppositions to be but that would be my best guess but that's still referring back to something isn't it that's still referring back to the question of authorial intent uh even if he's dead literally and can't correct you well I mean maybe this might be an interesting hype but like let's say uh you know taught us in the hair um what is the moral of tortoise in the hair it's like well I think it's safe to say that the point of it is slow and steady wins the race that's like the point of that story what if uh your boy Aesop said no the point of it was uh I don't know it was like a critique of post-modernism or something I don't know it's just like what does that mean like if that's what he said that it that it's meaning is totally different from like what is in the story like what what am I meant to do with that you know well I mean the fact that not every uh presupposition is contained within the story doesn't mean that that story contradicts the author's intent so like tourism hair doesn't leave room for oh well well what if uh maybe what if we use like a i i let's do a better example we'll use that story but he says no the moral of the story is slow and steady doesn't win the race it is like the antonym of what the point is um it's the total opposite what does that mean to us uh I think the same the same response holds I mean there's only a certain amount of room contained within the story for any uh authorial intense and opinion to be uh added to it what you could do of course is to go back to esop's time and look at the the State of Affairs in which he lived uh the politics of the city state in which he lived any particularly notable events that he might be parabling if that's a word um animal farms are quite a good example of that Animal Farm is ostensibly a children's story and you can interpret it strictly as a children's story but you can also look at the time in which Orwell was writing and the things he wrote alongside it which give you some indication of the type of parable he was telling and the targets that Parable I was aimed at um well it sounds like what you're leading towards is essentially a now this might not be what you think that um that basically having an awareness of authorial intent and then judging what the story is helps you figure out whether it's good or bad I wouldn't necessarily say good or bad I mean like you you could do um say if if Stephanie Meyer had written 1984 I would probably say no that's not a very good book because she can't write but that's making an aesthetic judgment as opposed to arguing whether the intent behind the book is is uh relevant or not um so our curiosity would it be correct to say you uh not confused but like you kind of reject at least impartial in part death of the author because of the fact that in assessment of the story you're always going to have authorial intent involved it can't it's not just not possible to remove them to a degree yeah I mean I don't you don't need to the Lord of the Rings um sorry there's gonna be a bonus question so okay if that's true but we did um talk just a little bit earlier that I could have come to conclusions on intense and then the author comes back to life and he's like Boo no you've got all them wrong it's these so and I asked like what was I holding at that point I guess a better question is was I not engaging in death of the author at that point then because all the intentions I'd drawn had nothing to do with the author's intent it depends on how the Impressions you uh you have were formed wouldn't it I mean if you're trying to say if you're going back and you're trying to understand the context in which the work was written and the messages that it might then be conveying uh that are relevant to that context um you might be wrong but you're still referential I mean you are still referring back to your imagined version of the author's intent the the fact that you might be wrong about the author's intent doesn't mean that you weren't making a sincere attempt to refer to the authors in turn although in that case I've almost constructed an author in my head about his intentions with the story and thus it can't be considered death of the author still yeah yeah I think well yes in two ways I mean yes in the sense that you are referring uh to the author and you're only going based on the best available information and all we can do is paint the picture using that best available information but secondly because whether we're right or wrong about how we interpreted work of art My ultimate position is that that work of art could not come to be without expressing some element of authorial intent um the only the reason the story exists in the first place is because the author carries into it into the telling of it certain uh presuppositions and they are usually presuppositions and prejudices as opposed to um in the traditional meaning of prejudices I have a question um uh you know about the the monkey typewriter thing like if you put a million monkeys as a typewriter or something after it or a monkey at a typewriter after a certain amount of time will create like the best novel ever give it an hour it'll produce rings of power this is true well yeah uh how do we apply depth of the author in that case where it is literally just a monkey typing a bunch of like random letters and then they just don't even need them already the same same question I asked the ghost author at that point you'd imagine them in your head for sure but I like the monkey example so let's go with the monkey no I'm just saying it would be the same answer he's already answered that technically right okay yeah I mean there might be a subtle variation with them well the variation I guess would be is your knowledge of the fact that no one wrote it it was an algorithm from well not even an algorithm sorry it's it's monkeys yeah I mean in that sense it becomes a bit more like I don't take like modern art for example like the most egregious example of Modern Art where uh someone just decided oh actually oh even the mistaken modern uh modern artwork so someone drops their sunglasses in the corner of an art gallery and everybody thinks it's an exhibition and so they go and take photographs of it and they think this is a really profound thing that that's an act of Pure subjectivism in Art but there is no authorial intent behind it because there is no author to have intent behind that that was a pure accident and Modern Art often doesn't have intent behind it quite often well besides saying I want everybody else subjectively to fully load this thing that I've sat on the ground with meaning with uh with import with purple with all the rest of it um but even then that there's an element of authorial intent there which is just pure exploitation and laziness but like my problem with like death of the author I think is that it can too often lead to Pure subjectivism of the modern art variety which means that you can look at anything and you can say well there's no need to refer back to the moral impetus that gave rise to its creation all we need to do is just to say well I think this about it and that's good enough for me I find that interesting though because you've said you've been a fan of our work for some time right we yes not to do that we don't do that well I don't I don't know that you he well this was part of the reason that it was so interesting last time and I was sort of regretful I wasn't in the first state to have the conversation um it was so the interesting thing about it is that obviously that you guys are big on at least very big on objectivity you know and judging our Aesthetics at least by an artistic technique by objective standards and the thing I was really interested in was that you should take essentially a subjectivist standard like death of the author and how that can be married and I think it probably can be married but how will you choose to marry that to the idea that you can make objective judgments about uh the work of art in general um because of course you can make objective judgments about technique irrespective of authorial and Technologies I think you can but uh broader questions are as to the worth of a work of art my suggestion I guess would be the maybe we are just operating slightly on Cross purposes as terms of what we Define death of the author as being oh yeah because we clearly like all the cast today um I think dispro even has said in other streams that like you know he sort of alluded to it there that he doesn't like covering things positively because there's nowhere near as entertaining and his metric for what is the worst content versus best is how entertained he is so the most boring will be the zeros out of ten which isn't lined up with us at all however myself Shad disagree on loads of things we disagree that but all six of us came to almost identical conclusions on rings of power kind of interesting right like those foundations being having these really important differences and yet we all come out with similar results definitely but then there is more to a work of art than authorial intent so like you could be you could fundamentally disagree on whether authorial intent is even important when you're discussing anything to do with Tolkien but you could still look at it on terms that have nothing to do with authorial intent and make judgments on its quality of writing like do events logically follow do character decisions follow from the information we have about them yeah does motive exist yeah none of that really has to be wrong that's that I guess that's at the heart of it is like as long as everybody in a conversation can agree on what framework it's been using yeah whether or not that means that we're referencing authorial intent then you can have a discussion wherever we kind of unders because ultimately I guess the most important part of the of of this process is that everybody understands what everybody else is saying and so that there's like no points of confusion and ideally whenever there's disagreements you're disagreeing on something that can be resolved by just going over the material and the story or the framework that's relevant to the type of discussion you're having rather than getting stuck essentially because we can't even agree on like a fundamental framework it's the reason why I don't think it's like I don't think that it's in uh worthless to discuss authorial intent at all I mean no yeah we did like I don't know if I don't know if you watched our our halo coverage um but I mean it's kind of hard for me to not talk about what I think that they they intended and like what I know that they intended based on their interviews because of course like that kind of pisses me off um like it's uh it's it's normal I think I think it's like normal to talk about it's just always important to try and not get those conversations confused I think if we can expand author to include the actors as well as in the characters they're portraying on screen is a work of art and that they are defining that work almost so when the actor says like oh he was clearly hesitating he wasn't sure you do and you probably like he wouldn't have if not for the fight he has with a seal door we can all be like [ __ ] that that's not in the actual show you've made that up oh God yeah but I I wouldn't I think I would reject the suggestion you can include actors as authors in this in that way or at least in a strict way like actors are performers and they are performing things that have been yeah before them he could have performed that right that could have been something he actually portrayed he could have gone to throw pulled it back and then heard the cough that that could have been something but he didn't or rather they didn't include that cut if that card is in there and then of course the question would just extend then because it's like it sounds like you're like yeah that's being rejected but if let's say he was correct though you'll be like oh well yeah I guess he's on board but whether or not we're disregarding his opinion isn't actually in in Focus or not we're just listening to him as a source for what is in the actual stuff and then we verify it and that's kind of how I would treat the author listen in this case say the director or writer whatever if that episode of rings of power they say yes he was hesitant and he wouldn't have done it if not for the fight with his heel though we'd again be like no that's wrong that's that you didn't portray that at all that's not in there I'm sorry Mister but I'd agree with I'd agree with that but that's that's because they're not portraying clearly stated authorial intent but then again what you're criticizing isn't authority of intent and whether that's relevant it's simply assuming that it's relevant and you're saying does is this what is depicted on screen but you can't make that judgment without reference to in that case if um if they said if the Creator said you was thinking about not doing it but you didn't go through with uh you know you opted for going through with it and that's not something that crossed our minds at all we thought he was just 100 on board the whole time I probably would entertain that because there's no way to disprove it and if there's ones like like but I wouldn't care to include much of it in an assessment because it's so up in the other so few references like uh if they said for example it was actually a scroll that turned into Bronwyn for that scene where she says oh we're all gonna die and then the scroll left seconds after that and she was she was put back just like that I mean there's nothing necessarily I didn't think Scrolls were in this universe but you know it's just like that you know like we're technically speaking there's nothing stopping that from being impossible but I would still reject that even if the author says it and it doesn't conflict with anything in the show necessarily yes and I I think I'd reject it too but I'd still deny I wouldn't deny that the intent existed but I would reject that it yeah and that's the thing I think the spring is kind of mentioning it was like we do value uh what the author has to say but it'll obviously come under a microscope just like everyone else's opinions and that's kind of how we want to employ death of the author that if we have you know you Frankie and James Gunn talking about polka dot man I'm gonna disregard his first out of the three of you let's say testimony or whatever as to what the idea is with polka dot man because his is so far away from it um even though he's the [ __ ] Creator you know what I mean like that's that's where I use it however he could have had the most accurate and insightful one that actually points out things that everyone missed and I should be like oh [ __ ] he's the most valuable one and someone could be like well duh he's the Creator I'd be like well yeah I mean it doesn't always work that way yeah I think I'd broadly agree with that approach but again all that address is that that is still referential and that is still making reference to Authority intent that's a judgment on the validity or the Worth or of the authority intent but that's about it really but I think we basically do probably agree it's just uh it's more of a I would say we definitely seem to agree in practice because we rarely ever come across disagreements in the conclusions of any one scene yeah exactly but there's gonna be ones out there that may happen that are blurry enough and then you would have you'd maybe opt for whatever the author has said is is the correct answer well we would say it's ambiguous and even if the author says well no it's it's X not y I think didn't Destiny say like um uh what would you do if if Christopher Nolan said that the uh the spinning top does drop at the end we just ran out of film we couldn't cut it or whatever like it you know and it was just I think we just said now reject it uh it's not in the film it just isn't and so anything that exists beyond that it's just like I'm not even a fan of that ending what of the where it does actually drop I think I remember not being a fan of it because it didn't make sense but I could be wrong I'd have to go back and watch it wow I'm curious about inception and how well uh ages yeah because I think I've mentioned it before on stream I'm not sure that the kick scene at the end makes any sense at all I think they got it backwards as if I understand kicks and how they work in that film I'm pretty sure they got it backwards because if you remember the whole point of like Go the whole point of their Heist was that they were so um they were so uh uh [ __ ] um sedated that they couldn't kill themselves they'd go to limbo but they'd kill themselves to get out of each successive dream state when the whole point of the kick was that it comes from the level above not the level below that the kick above will wake you up from uh from that dream I'm pretty sure it doesn't make any sense but you know I feel like we can win another time if ever we were to do Nolan for evap movies that might be one where like this bro I'd need to watch it before we do even movies for it just because with every last word of every character's like dialogue you need to take it in to make sure you catch all of the craziness yeah sorry all of the great writing I didn't mean to say craziness it's all of the great writing across all of his films exactly all of his films and characters including yes that one too I'm glad we've included all of them right oh yeah um so yeah there you go there's our death of the author part two I'm sure there'll be about three tomorrow or something I'm not sure the money laundering rings of power possibly cannot confirm the people do wonder where all the money went exactly it's like I don't know not to the script I'll tell you that all the actors uh just watch Two Towers every character struggles to survive in every clip of Galadriel and rings of power shows her not even struggling yeah she's amazing I'm trying to think does she strug a little in in the last episode the latest one he does some like stupid super awesome moves right where she like falls off her horse then does some I don't think she struggles at all yeah she hangs off the side of her horse to dodge incoming projectiles and then she's just amazing even from the side of her horse even even yeah even when she's faced with an exploding volcano she just stands there and lets it come at it because there's a tempest inside of her oh yeah cause me problems indigestion that volcano better watch out uh uh oh cyberpunk Edge Runners is by the same Studio who did Visions it gets very contrived bad dialogue but fun characters 4 out of ten would be generous oh my lots of recommendations I think that's the first but more critical super General we've had of it I I still haven't watched it yet I I but I've heard recommendations from Mostly everybody at this point the new cool kid on the Block apparently Revitalize that game uh Wings quote of the day thanks for the two dollars and fifty cents but that he thanks the account which is wigs hopes my family dies which well that might be true but what could be the automobile crash one right yeah the old rack all right okay sorry I got it wrong automobile wreck maybe he does with your family I don't know I don't know what it is automobile rack that he said that instead of a car crash it's a rare combo uh he's bringing it back Mahler bonus no I've never drunk milk so fresh it felt like someone's tits in my mouth why would he's such a character he's such a such a character here's the character apparently this talk of bringing in Harrison Ford as a recast Thunderbolt Ross in MCU there's all sorts of things wrong with this if it's true hey I heard about that um I don't even know how I feel about it uh he's he's I think William hit was great as Thunderbolt Ross it's just that he doesn't have he has he like simultaneously is not a prominent but also prominent role in that he's got up so many times technically but at the same time he has very little screen time so I like Roadie but I guess he wouldn't recast him now well now Rody's getting his movie armor Wars is going to be a movie now instead of a TV show oh I saw that good for him well I think it's because blades collapsed right like blade what dude I really want to see what it would have been because it sounded [ __ ] horribly bad um I mean it's it's kind of uh when you find out it's like blade was gonna be well it almost certainly will be PG-13 it's like right Marvel man are we sure Deadpool is gonna be guaranteed and even if it's guaranteed an R rating what about what limitations are going to be put on them like in terms of what they can or cannot do um I don't know it's uh the sludge pipe I don't know if anything escapes we'll see Guardians 3 will be the one right to really test it yeah hello efap devil fruit of the week is the super super fruit which enables the user's body to gain characteristics of a steel blade the characteristics of a steel blade exchange for super fruit in exchange you can't swim is that it's that one again what characteristics because if I'm just going to be rigid what is it is like T1000 or what what's it called again a super super fruit uh let's see uh that makes the user's body smooth and slippery which in turn makes most attacks and objects slide off their body protecting the user from harm in most situations if one is overweight in any way they will become slim by having the excess fat slip off how what how does that slip off fat is inside it slips out it just comes out of your butt oh no uh someone said you can basically change any part into blades so if if we go best faith assumption here and it's T1000 powers um in exchange for not being able to swim and I guess everything else stays the same you can just temporarily turn your fingers into a knife your whole arm into a big knife uh I guess but I don't know when that will be really useful to do because yeah on me and then I can still swim I guess yeah I have a I always have a knife on me and if I'm doing kitchen stuff then I have kitchen knives I never need them outside of yeah I just I don't know when that would be useful I don't even be able to hang on to the more fruit and then if it comes up I guess I'll eat it that I need blade hands maybe I don't know yeah we have tools for all the things that I would turn my arms into yeah I'm trying to think of even a scenario where I'd need it and it's just I think so uh this Peru and Shad give me the meat and give it to me raw nice oh yes just like Kyla's ferrets hail efap also High racks hello virgin red letter media who reviewed some parts of old track vs Chad lawrunner who reviewed all episodes of old tracks searched how many episodes there even are of old track a lot as far as I know he has a bunch um well that makes sense I mean I wouldn't I mean we haven't reviewed all of Star Wars you know the you know different channels do different things I think um you've seen their the coverage of their favorite TNG episodes of all time or something right our lab yes I haven't I decided to avoid those ones because I feel like I really should watch those episodes not watch reviews of them beforehand yeah it's fair they're quite coveted those those pieces of content hey it's been on my mind but the Lost Super Chat catch-up has strained my curiosity what's the beef with BoJack Horseman yes if you do watch Edge Runners it it's bet it's not better than arcane he the beef with BoJack Horseman no beef as far as I do I just don't think we just are good it's not good compared to the Acclaim that it tends to receive yeah I think it has a lot of I used to think that it shouldn't necessarily have it I think it earned the prestige that it has no uh I don't think so either obviously I used to think that but my opinion changed on a re-watch hey Chad this week I mastered sword fighting it's stab twist gut it's so easy it makes your channel look like a joke also Jesus Christ this guy's all Tempest and he has swords apparently that's a lot that's a lot of Tempest that is terrifying don't kill anyone all right bad please don't kill him it's cool that you must have swordsmanship that's all you really need this Peru I knew it was only a matter of time I mean yeah if especially if the networks involve me I mean both disco and little platoon I was able to sort of start conversations with thanks to open bar it's a neat when crossovers happen you can start cross-pollinating little platoon is back perfect fit on efap oh I think you I don't know if you check the comments you've got quite a few compliments last streams congratulations thank you very much oh no if you had to pick a single storytelling Trope to discuss in depth which would you pick I have intense desire to destroy veganism really is that a storytelling Trope I didn't so uh this almost sounded to me like the question of like you're stuck on a desert island you're only allowed to talk about one you know like like you've got to choose the one that you can get the most mileage out of almost I mean storytelling Trope I almost just want to go for a really broad one so then I can talk about all the components and stuff uh yeah I'd have to really sort of see a list honestly just go for sure the good guys win so I can talk about everything basically it's not even untrue like it is fun to watch films uh me and Frankie had this uh like two years ago now I was about to say recently film called uh well I almost hesitate to say it now because like I'm implying what the result of it is let's just say a film with a very conventional story and then it like takes a pivot on exactly what kind of way it's telling it and then the end every component is in place for it to be like woohoo we did it but the main character just [ __ ] breaks down and uh accepts the fact that their life sucks and that they they they they were victorious way too late yeah it was an interesting film yeah and I really appreciated the ending and it could almost say it's like yeah because it's a it's a more Raw it's a me it's a raw meat ending and they gave it to me yeah yeah like there was uh there's no Quail sauce emotional no Quail sauce option that they could have taken and they chose to take the more honest one yeah and I appreciate it when they do that in storyline stories especially when it's like I was gonna say almost a surprise because but I think that's drawn out from the trope I assume if I'm if I'm allowed to call that a Tropa it's just like I was expecting it to be the normal like yeah we did it but I was like oh oh wow wow they went there okay yeah so yeah maybe that's my legitimate answer and it allows me to talk about all kinds of things for ages who's next I don't know maybe something regarding characters just being stupid because it's it has such broad swaths of consequences and it manifests in so many ways but I'm not really sure if I'm asked off the top of my head but yeah the it's just general stupidity of people in stories so that plots can happen I really have a disdain for that and I hate it I like the idea what modern writing is its own Trope now maybe yeah what exactly was the question if you had to pick a single storytelling Trope to discuss in depth which would you pick uh uh and depth so it could be good or bad like it could be positive or negative hmm uh storytelling trope um I mean I do find the whole active and passive character thing pretty interesting as well as that characters must change I find that these are perspectives that are worth evaluating more so than just accepting wholesale as like active is always better than passive or characters must change they can't be static I think that these are commonly accepted essentially limitations on the possible stories that you can tell so I think that it's worth examining that um more thoroughly to maybe hone in on a conclusion which I think is more fair which is active characters are generally a better choice to make and characters in a story generally should have arcs but these are not requirements your story is not made worse for not doing these things necessarily yeah basically not necessarily um maybe the hero's journey though that's like a nice big one there that you can talk about a chunker such a yeah all right but I give her anti-heroes I like anti Heroes yeah okay I'll pick anti-heroes just because you can do so much that's brilliant with them and almost nobody does them well so that's sort of broad enough to to go on with I've started working on my first video explaining why every single YouTuber except you guys are wrong about a certain video game franchise advice what franchise like we what would you write about that everyone else is wrong about are we talking about infinite Bioshock I have no plenty of people who don't like BioShock Infinite yeah lots of people don't so hmm yeah I don't think that we are right about no one else's Dark Souls I don't think so Amnesia rebirth pretty sure why would anyone like that can't be last of us too lots of us won I don't think I would take was that all right well you know to be curious to ask for advice you know just uh the usual stuff stay passionate stay on the stuff that you really really care about and then you know double check at your references right and maybe give a redraft to that script to Rooney um I'm not sure how you're going to format it if it's about how everybody is wrong I guess you can try and break it up into topics well you could pick a few like very big name creators and pick five for example and identify an aspect each of them has picked out and contradict it but don't like overdo that don't do pick too many but there's like a series of counter essays as opposed to a a big sort of flailing one I'm so happy the writers of the show killed off Galadriel with a pyroglastic plastic flow of the eruption yeah it was really cool of them to do that this is this is how we know they're listening to the fans anyone who put it in who who vetted from the beginning that she died in pyroclastic flow from a volcano you win the pool you did it I don't know how you knew but that's one hell of a guess e-hook is awful now that this is out of the way I want She-Hulk set on that on my face I want Hulk Gussy so bad anyways James bondoc with the UK Lads when um that's that could happen at some point why not it would be cool to get me as the Welsh one Drinker is the Scottish one as is the English one and then we'll have to find an Irish one and we can that would that would mean it's that's good that's that that means it's a good thing how that works veganism oh yeah love listening to efap ripping crap entertainment little platoon when can we expect part two looking forward to it I'm assuming that's rings of power um yeah well hopefully next weekend tentatively though next weekend because it was my birthday week this week and so I thought I'll take a couple of days off and then those couple days off I ended up doing Andor and then Andor became longer than I thought it was going to be but that's almost done it might be out tomorrow assuming that's out tomorrow if I can get two and a half hours of video done in a week hopefully next weekend but given the last one took a week to get past Amazon maybe two weeks time but within the next Fortnight hopefully wait uh the plan is to grab Helios like the little clown boy he is that's something I'll be doing uh not too long ago go down until I get to God of all three uh you know Helios is he the like am I like let's put my memory right now I I always I partially remembered him as Apollo and then I was like no he's Helios so is Apollo a Greek god or am I am I just messed up apologize on God uh isn't Helios um well yeah cause uh Haley that yeah because like in Deus Ex you got Helios and Icarus and Daedalus and all that yeah Apollo is a descendant of Helios ah follow his Roman god is he uh no no if you've seen Helios is Roman okay now I'm getting I'm pretty sure Helios is Greek no Helios is also Greek Helios is the sun um like we are a heliocentric a heliocentric solar system uh I don't know what the Roman Sun God is I'm bigger on the Greeks and the Romans uh Mercury would be the equivalent for Roman is it uh Apollo had no direct Roman equivalent oh because yeah the later Roman poets often referred to him as Phoebus is it safe to say well because I was just you know when uh God of War 3 starts you you have a Zeus Poseidon Hades Hermes and Helios I think I'm curious about that choice uh is it just me or is is Apollo more well-known than Helios Apollo seems to be more uh yeah I'm pretty sure I'm curious why they made the choice so maybe it doesn't maybe there's a reason I'm missing I might Apollo's Chariot draws Helios about the sky because Helios is using a chariot I think in that game as well Hollow is truth he loses his line it's all good it's all good we'll we'll uh if you follow us lots of things he's one of those gods that covers a lot of different bases hogging up all of the names of things music Madison you know things and then you just got yeah you're the Water Guy sorry buddy well I guess water's pretty all-encompassing water's pretty great their names are really good really cool names and and then someone could be like well maybe their names are just cool because you associated with them and they're like I don't know I think they're just cool actually I that they're cool names like you know there's no if they were a God that was as badass as Poseidon Zeus and Hades and he was just called flemp it would it wouldn't like that yeah what a cool name flemp is it's like the great Titan of the sky dookie dookie I don't know man that's cat we just call you double d um but yeah just uh oh these These are they're as strong as [ __ ] names they're really cool uh I like them a lot and it's cool that God of War takes so much advantage of just being like hey they're cool you're killing these guys you're like yeah it's pretty cool that's why I'm I'm building up my uh my expectations and excitement for finally fighting Thor and Odin it's gonna be so cool please be good a lot of people in chat Frankie have been saying that we could be having philosophers too situation I was like oh my God why why would you even tempt fate um why why is that the expectation that people would have terrifying why would why would we even entertain the idea like I said uh uh is it because like because I think Corey balog is producer he's not directing he's he's working on something else but he said cringe things right uh uh what him or like other people who are working on it could have sworn people have been saying even Corey barlock's been saying I don't know I haven't gotten anything more specific this I was kind of hoping maybe chat will enlighten me it's a cringe um yeah because well like is there an example that might be something that gets you worried because I mean you know you could just have cringe that's totally separate from from that work right Traders and toxic masculinity uh yeah but uh it's gonna be a hot D situation guys where they say it and then you watch the show and you're like that's fine that you said that you keep that to yourself though it said Civil War is the worst damn you Corey I guess it's something that's probably worth I I think it often gets lost in the uh discussion about the story The Last of Us too was like not a good video game um and so like if God of War is at least mechanically as good as what the the first game then like it kind of can't be a Last of Us two situation yeah which is kind of nuts because my main and we'll see if this holds true when I play them but my main appreciation for God of War 3 is like a I would probably want to say a 70 30 split of mechanics story while my appreciation for God of War 2018 is probably a 60 40 split of story to mechanics if not a 70 30 split of story to mechanics right so really it does hinge a lot on the story yeah so if Ragnarok has a really [ __ ] story poorly done characters but like mechanics that are even slightly better than 2018 I wonder if that'll even be able to stem my hatred at all I don't know because yeah you're right so the last of us too gameplay wise like I wonder if it was just because of how bad the story was that it started to really not have an ability to hide how much I don't like the mechanics in the world of the last of us but I think that's totally it was hard to look forward to the things to say yeah like for instance I mean I guess like I wanted with the well I kind of felt because Uncharted 4 at the beginning is quite slow it has the problem that a lot of modern games have where like the replay value is significantly compromised by How uh how much the narrative dictates the sort of uh gameplay scenarios that are presented in the game um but I mean as long as you're enjoying a story in a video game I think people can put up with a lot um whereas yeah if like this if the story isn't delivering and you're just left with the mechanics it's kind of uh yeah nothing to hide behind in a sense I'll take creators should have stayed down and they come up with a new protagonist he wasn't dead at the end of God of War 3 they they confirm he's not dead he's gone to happen he's too iconic I don't even this is the thing if someone said well you should have killed him at the end of God all three then you shouldn't have brought him back I should be like if we knew that they were going to do what they did in 2018 with him I would absolutely agree we shouldn't kill him because uh right I [ __ ] I love what they're taking him from there but I'm curious how we're gonna shake it out I I don't even know at this point there's this talk of Prophecy right that you'll be there's loads of references to Sons killing their fathers in 2018 and um and there's even this there's a bit of that prophecy he's on a wall where it looks like he dies in favor of atreus in some way shape or form um Joel was iconic too Joe wasn't going that's true well no remember he wasn't a beloved yeah he wasn't beloved so it's fine Kratos is beloved of course of course he kind of is which is funny because I'm pretty sure causable variety of his argument was he's not beloved he kills people he's a brutal he's like that's not gonna stop someone from being beloved um anyway you've got all that stuff happening there's what if like Kratos is killed in the end of Ragnarok but he ends up in like the Egyptian underworld you know because he's escaped the underworld in every [ __ ] realm at this point you can't that's considered one of his greatest achievements is that when he was killed he was so angry he climbed back out of hell in the Greek yeah world so something funny it is really funny he's too angry to die that's like Kratos um so yeah if he was to be killed it really would probably confuse the fans you're like I'm not sure how that happened it's like yeah it just sort of did which to be fair you die all the time if you play the game uh all these bad content like the hobbits and the show ruined our tolkien's books it's time to reboot it Lord of the Rings the ring awakens by Abrams and JJ We Trust the rig awakens I could believe that too oh I do believe it yeah [ __ ] me it's gonna be so cool too much British I feel like I'm watching Top Gear what it was only three Brits what what how did it feel to be like three Brits and two Australians Rags how you feeling over there feeling great there you go feeling really really great he's not feeling colonized or anything it's fine no pumpkin it'd be fun to play atreus and the sixth god of war and it's like I want to play Kratos in the Egyptian Pantheon I'm sorry I I deserve it you have to give me it legally you're required but not like a moon night [ __ ] version of the Egyptian Pantheon but a right proper actual Egyptian Pantheon I mean the big difference with the Greek era and the Norse era is it looked like they took it way more seriously like they actually tried to stay accurate at least to some a much higher degree of how the Norse mythology shakes out there's a lot of things that they obviously [ __ ] with a lot of it too to fit in their own OC but like you know it works the Greek one they just do whatever the hell they want and then they randomly reference like things from Greek mythology which is fine again you can do that um the differing results of course because like the third God of War was like super cinematic it was like everybody get ready [ __ ] destroy Mount Olympus buddy here it goes your son has returned I bring y'all so much I like that but like dude I [ __ ] love Zeus's opening monologue in that game like there's a lot of cool lines in those games they show the cutscene of paper shower to Aries like four times in the first game but it was funny when I was streaming it oh Zeus Zeus it is so interesting to watch him younger and so aggravated and angry and [ __ ] killing everything in his path and then you go to the 2018 one where he's this like clearly aged guy who's just like [ __ ] I've been angry for so long like it's just it's just hard being angry all the time uh where are we glad to see shad disparoo and little platoon uh Shand this Brew aren't you in the exhausted after Friday night Tides dude this is the thing the people who are like circuitry around all the different streams myself included but like Chad's one of them just Bru's been on like a stream every day it's like does get ridiculous sometimes to even keep track of all the streams you're supposed to be on uh good for them I'm glad I'm really glad that Shad agreed to be honest I was expecting he'd be like bro I got your Friday tights and then Hot D the following day if we get him tomorrow that would be pretty they'll be pretty neat too um but yeah it was really cool to have a little platoon back and just Peru real cool fun to be back anytime Mega pints all around oh yeah oh well I could use some Mega points after all that also isn't the whole reason these people are being watched by the elves because of the Blood Oath to morgoth so yeah why not try to tempt them to turn coat and join the bad guys Oh you mean like on the part of the Orcs like why not tempt them to try and tune I mean I guess they did right they gave him a chance yeah like yeah I suppose they did I took out half of them yeah and they didn't even really cried that hard they were just like they do it they didn't okay it was just this elf came back this elf came back and said yeah if you go to him and you know it was just a guy suggesting it yeah any of those gonna happen I was gonna call it out and then I was like nah it'll be fine as a Norse Pagan myself I hard disagree that they're faithful to the mythology in God of War 2018. Pagan detected opinion discarded it's funny because I said like I had like qualifications all over what I said I was like to some degree and then I was like but they [ __ ] with it and you're allowed to do that like do you really take from what I said that they were just faithful like with no context added it's like come on give me some benefit of the doubt even I I haven't read Norse mythology but I'm pretty sure Kratos isn't in it hmm okay I'm not mad I'm not mad at all the the Greek Universe exists side by side with Norse and that I'm simultaneously being told it's not faithful it's like I I know I'm aware it's okay but when they have all those murals and the stories and jorman gander is going to have a climactic battle with Thor that is adjacent to ragnarok's like clearly they're working with events from the from the law where the Greek one I don't think they gave a [ __ ] they come they were just using the characters and even then they were [ __ ] with the characteristics so well again that was just a playground basically but the the Greek pantheon kind of is that so there is no one established Greek canon in terms of its Pantheon hessian's version is vastly different in room as well I'm sure Disney will buy the rights to the Greek mythology anytime soon I'm really I don't suggest that I'm really curious they're going to explain what it even like because that's actually arguably an issue like how does creators get from the Greek pantheon to the Norse one how what is the nature of that uh the rising Kratos thing where apparently like people produces Sony were like I don't really understand like he put on a backpack and like just walked to like Norse mythology and apparently corn like well he doesn't have a backpack but yeah basically I think yeah he just my theory has always been they don't like they're not avert about it because that that might be answered at some point they just need to figure it out because that's that's a tough one because what you need to do is make it so that it's distant and secret enough that no one else has used it but it's still accessible by Kratos well it's just maybe another place in the world in each Place ah it's always going to be difficult to reconcile especially because I believe that the most powerful entities of the Norse and Greek universes would probably be interesting because I think mamir was like aware of the Greek gods just like so this is so how does that work what's going on there you know happens when they because God of War is probably never going to end like God of War is one of Sony's most successful I'd be happy for it to go on forever if it stays entertaining oh well it's just that it's just going to be more variables because they have said that Ragnarok is the end of the Norse Saga which means that next up is probably Egypt it's like yeah how are you gonna factor in Egypt as well being uh part of part of this world if it's Egypt and it releases on PC I might actually get it I'm I'm big into Egypt stuff it'll release on PC at some stage but I would hesitate just make sure it's the kind of game that you have any interest in though because they're audible's combat is very uh specific I don't think I'm not opposed to the concept of like third person action sort of stuff uh it just so happens I don't play really any of it at the moment but I think it's more coincidental than anything yeah fair enough uh do you intend to tackle the Lotus eater's commentary on snyderverse praise from the other political Isle of bad media may require inspection as well I've been critical of many of sarcom's media takes you'll find disagreements all the time and now uh [ __ ] efat movies that may release some year that we've got cooking in the background but uh one day one day they'll come out one day they're there um yeah praising is the snyderverse movies look I would just I just you go right ahead it is you are you have the right you have the right to do that is um he means yeah like if you were playing Minecraft with Zack's 90 you'd push him into like a little death hole or whatever they have in those games yeah it's fun to do that with your friends it's not Sargon it's someone else who works for him in that case that's fine you know it's fine either way but it's fine it's fine it's fine let him be wrong Rags fringy Shad disparate the little platoon what a lineup today everybody good to see all these fine gents destroying rings of power together oh yeah we've got a great group for this yeah it did yeah oh yeah we we don't enjoy this show much we're not not too keen on it my brother still somehow likes this Garbo he just started a YouTube and his first videos on it if anyone has a free moment to roast him I'd appreciate it his channel name is I'm not gonna do that like come on listen Okay this is fine we don't need to we don't need to be like hey go get him it's like Jesus I don't know why but for some reason I always thought Sauron was an elf LOL I thought he was too many yes so when yeah I never really thought about it he's anatar I think and he he comes as an elf to the elves when he wants to convince him to um to create the rings of power in the first place so he can he can present his one up until the point of which numenor is destroyed and they're saying we'll see him in season two three four or five well five yeah he'll probably be played by a celebrity um but yeah he gets struck by lightning and drowned and then he has to lose his ability to take Fair forms ever again man I hate getting struck by lightning I know it's a bit of a if you're a tree though when that happens and people have been plowing good and evil into you and you have a silmoreline in the center of you and well uh galadriel's favorite wine is Pinot glycerin glycerin nitroglycerin is that because of the explosive wine I guess yes they packed a lot of it on the ships just for her like it's understood that she is a terrible alcoholic and it's the only way to keep it from attacking other people from going into a rampage if she gets upset she will single-handedly destroy all of numenor Unstoppable the plot demands that she succeed she sways drunkenly saying oh she'll love me or Despair and despair even that explosive Elven [ __ ] so she doesn't fly off the handle the short story uh platoon was talking about was probably the appointment in Samara very short read but it's nice high rags hello I don't know but perhaps he is on this episode of rings of power Mount Doom finally gets the origin story it deserves yeah which by the way I think it was messaging either it was either Shadow dispute but I was like this wouldn't like I realized pissed me off a little bit more and I think it was because of the fact that that's Mount Doom like it's yeah it's like get away get away like and it's the same you know this don't shoot it's like I do what are the things I do know what Mount Doom is and look at what you're doing to him touching it you're getting all your fingerprints off like licking the mountain like yeah just might be like no Mountain's crying reached out his little little volcano arms like help me yeah yeah exactly uh Arya Stark versus Brienne Spar scene is the Pinnacle he was right I remember that being okay that was that was season eight as well it's all right pinnacle but hey it would be cool to see Chad uh give an assessment of that maybe it's not as bad as I think or rather it's better than I think it is I don't know oh my God Lord longbong of Milton Abbey is there any good chance of a Kong fap of Peter Jackson's long Kong When there's less going on it'll be a movie Fat for the ages yes oh yeah hello ragsies scritches with a good boy oh hello yeah it'll have to be later because October is just so busy cannot be this month probably not next month but who knows after that you know we're just slamming through them busy busy house the dragon is mid maybe I'm gonna wait until it's done before I'm gonna wanna try and tackle that I would also like to refrain from talking about it in more detail until ranks is now caught up yeah because now you're unfortunately in a position where it could be spoiled for you oh I suppose and I and I actually care about it being spoiled I was about to say it can always be spoiled though because of the fact that it's gonna be three seasons and the full story is already out in book form and some other forms so I'll just not look up stuff yeah I was gonna say it's kind of standard there's that's the same thing for a lot of adaptations but uh in the in the sense of me trying to talk about the show though I'd rather wait until you put up like I said yeah yeah Willem Blackwood skipped the second step on Old Bracken that's how you know he's not yet a master still killed all Bracken but not an orc does that mean anything to you guys no no I'm not following that I'm lost sorry um you guy ladriel tanks a pyroclastic flow to the face like a Chad and she'll survive the bestest most badass girl boss ever I have a feeling that we won't see why or how that's possible that we'll just get the the aftermath immediately yeah everyone will be walking around crying screaming and we're like oh God this is terrible and but it'll have settled it won't be any more like giant Cloud she'll still be beautiful but dirty a little bit dirty one little patch of mud and that's it maybe a beauty scar you know not anything disfiguring or prominent but Michael down below you know oh it definitely won't be permanent no um stab twist gut Galadriel teaches the numenorians the combo of how to beat the soda popinski and punch out oh I hope it works oh because uh they might have to fight soda at some point hold on galadriel's lines stab twist gut is more ignorant than the one from Mask of Zorro pointy end goes into the other man that line is meant to show ignorance his is trying to imply the intelligence that's actually a great point you remember when um the experienced Zara was teaching the up-and-coming one and he's like do you know how to use that and he says pointy end goes into the other man which yep that's true it's just obviously more complicated and it's like that that's a great Foundation his is stabbed to his gut which as as you heard today there's some issues with him as a line the the sea is always right and wet and irritating and it gets everywhere yeah it's very true I say that about the ocean all the time I wish I was born in the desert that's it that the new menorans are the only people to whom the lion I grew up surrounded by water would actually be relevant because they were well and yet I haven't heard that yet but to be fair Boba Fett did grow up surrounded by water I just don't know why he told anyone there there's a time and a place yeah what benefit was there to say that I don't know that he even knew he was just like well sometimes I just like to talk I heard someone mention it water you know kind of reminisce yeah no water that takes me back oh yes the good old days off topic but watching 205 and thought y'all might be interested to know that an Italian artist sold his immaterial statue uh low Sono for several thousand dollars back in 2021 his immaterial statue so I assume like the way you know that's immaterial that's not real I assume that's what they mean oh no looking at images oh what images the the great question is how are you looking at images of it and it's like exactly man I mean yeah this is apparently it but to be fair oh God you see the statue oh it's not what I thought it looked like at all I think that one actually might be the number one example I wish we had had it where it's like this is really tested the limits isn't it like you buying the statute it's like yes but it makes you feel doesn't it it's like fine fine what a neat statue you have there and just like the the like the person who like organizes the entire gallery is just crying in the background the destruction of Art just reading the Lim the subhead despite lacking any physical form artist Salvatore garau I think that's right so that the immaterial sculpture titles lucerno meaning I am very much existed in its nothingness yes I agree with that statement aliens need to stick to pizza and submachine guns they shouldn't be dabbling about in this [ __ ] art it's definitely made anything good since about the third Century so that's probably true next up please explain reasons why you believe Hollow brand equals Sauron so I do feel bad because there's a lot of people out there and I think um I think Dev is one of them there's a couple of others I've spoken to where they're like what how brand is not Sauron even to the point of assuming that um not Gandalf is Sauron so I I have the unique benefit of number one being told by people who have been told by people who've been told by people who've been told the story and it's lined up fully up to this point that he is Sauron um I mean I was told that very early on and so then you just keep a look out for how they could build the story to be that and match it like you know times that by their incompetent writing that we've seen and and things are slotting more into place in terms of how you'd expect them to tell the story and then there's a couple of references that are kind of undeniable right like when he fights the dudes that scene is definitely portrayed in a way to be like ooh that was a little bit it wasn't like a heroic type fun character defending himself from those those [ __ ] it was more like you went a bit far and you hurt them more than you needed to Buddy like what does that mean we had this with um what's her name penny worth in Batwoman remember where he killed someone which you didn't need to uh the show was like yeah but we never breaks your neck oh yeah it was never at all mentioned in any way whatsoever so you got that that woman is a shield that's even worse than rings of power so he's super interesting in forged and [ __ ] you gotta um which you know just matches the whole makes the Rings part you gotta he's got like a lot of awareness of all the [ __ ] that's going on in the Southlands you've got his his lines about how in order to like control people you need to find out what they fear give them the ability to master it and then master that which as was said earlier that kind of just describes the one ring um there's a lot of things going on and knowing that he Sauron from the other thing is just it's just how it's directed the conversation but uh don't worry don't feel like you've missed something it's it's it's just bad so like you know when it when it's revealed it's not like we're gonna be like told you so it's just this is something I was told so Galadriel can't feel or smell out all evil great what what's that gonna do all right I mean fair enough I can't I was gonna say I've tried actually I'm a dog the Trope is accurate I was supposed to say yeah dog definitely yeah a lot of zombie dogs though zombie dogs and individual bases I'm assuming more of your gas mask means that you're the least able to do this um well it filters out bad things I can I can change the filters to filter in whatever I want you know so if I filter in the smell of evil I'll be able to do that fair enough very specific filter set oh yeah they're great they might be trying to corrupt you by giving you a mask that has that specifically as a filter setting they're actually uh there's mithril in the they're strong and unyielding is evil yes really weird that he said that but yes very strange hey uh hey gilgad why did you say evil was strong he's like huh no nothing no no I meant both of them were strong both you get good and evil no sorry good good I don't support it of course but it I mean we gotta face the facts here we're pragmatics yeah they're just like but you agree that good gives up where evil doesn't he's like uh so about that table oh yeah is yeah during movie the evil one in that because he's lying manipulating yeah and Google add's a cuck uh Holborn smithing's scene is BS that Hammer's twisting the metals to a bad curve that blade is going to be bent um no he's the sword master you're not he made something the the Smith man was like whoa wow you must be wrong person's commenting because I was shown in the show that he made something amazing in the law no one can see the Rings unless they are ring bearers really you can't even see it that's um that's only true of the three Elven rings I think oh okay because they were 20. the elves make three in secret and I think those are the three Naya nenya and the other one I don't remember the name of those ones are invisible unless one is a ring bearer themselves or wearing the one ring but Sauron doesn't actually know that those have been made all right I'm three hours behind but if you guys have talked about the 10 out of 10 IGN rating just remember they also gave the last of us two 10 out of 10. so I don't know if it's really weird things 10 out of 10. yeah IGN is I'm certain that they were financially compensated maybe but I think that's yeah I'm not even I wouldn't even what I was thinking about when you said that was most of the they make these reviews not necessarily because they have direct communication and they are paid off more so that they know it's more beneficial yeah I think it's very very well understood from both sides back and forth nudge nudge wink wink nod nod about what they do you could also look at the writing credits in season two and see if any former IGN employees are on them it would be funny if that was the case uh the theme for rings of power is plot twist McGuffin and it's not a MacGuffin but instead of more underwhelming McGuffin but our own sword is just a key mithril is just magic lightning but them the mark of siren is a map you say these things as if they're not much stupider than that like Sauron sword is just a key it's like yeah there's a lot more that's really dumb about that actually in terms of what it's what it does specifically but key the keyhole what it does oh we'll have so much to talk about next time oh my God uh that's the sound of forgiveness elrond explosions and then silence they take the explosive wine when they go to battle or it's just what they drink normally do they explode if they burp or fart near a flame so first off yes obviously uh two I have no idea I thought that was like lamp oil or something yeah I had I would not have guessed it was mine because it looked so thick so I think the argument was describing them as being in casks made people think it was wine But ultimately you could store theoretically lots of things in a cask you don't have to store absolutely yeah if if it's a oil meant for burning then having it with a spigot makes sense if you just want to put a little bit in a a lamp or a torch or something like that you don't want to be able you don't want to dip like a bucket down there it because it get all over your hands and now you're it's just messy and icky and the dirt sticks to it but it's it's the ethanol because you have no content in wine that burns isn't it I'm sure why no wine even undiluted wine that sort of we drink today does not have a high enough uh ethnic too yeah I don't think it's I've never thought flammable yeah but yeah I don't think Wine's flammable I think there's some really hard Liquors that might be like vodka would most Spirits would be flammable right I actually don't know I um depending on how much it's cut with something else but it has to have a high ethanol content so it has to have a high percentage like ABV percentage I think people so people saying oil doesn't explode idiot we saw it explode so it must exploded whatever that's why that's that's the source of the confusion if it just burned the ship down then it could be all sorts of things but the fact that it was explosive yeah I mean that depends on the thing it's in and like the air pressure within the thing it's in it's like same thing with the mountain Doom thing we'll come onto whenever we get to the next episode is that with the water have the effect that it has no I think the explosion not quite yes but sorry my exasperation there was because it's magical [ __ ] too right it's not just a normal volcano but yeah I see what you know but I mean the light like what spring was referencing right there's weather effects inside the pyroclastic flow it's like it's like oh I think I think that does happen though I mean like allegations yeah because you've got well it's not electricity generated by the thing but it's charged particles within the pyroclastic flow so I think you do actually in real volcanic eruptions you will see lightning because there are charged particles within the pyroclastic flow which then Arc the energy between themselves so I'm I think that does actually happen in real life that you can see artistic um depictions and I think photographic depictions as well of real life volcanic eruptions where you will see lightning in them either generated from within the pyroclastic flow or because of the interaction between that flow and the clouds above them which have charged particles in them well that sounds really cool I know how are they alive if you add that on too yeah I think it's supposed to be like 3 000 degrees Celsius in there though so they should be dead yeah because like it's just like adding even I don't know all right fine yeah um you'll be fine she'll be a little dirty she'll have to take a bath but let me apply the theme for rings of power is oh wait I read that one already oh wait wine explodes oh yeah well they could have been just C4 on in storage there as well I think that was around that time right they would have that technology yeah it's like uh saruman's um gunpowder stuff it's uh or uh the fire of orthonk or something that luminor had their own they just did not follow proper safety protocol in its storage and that leads to accidents or they drank it to make them more angry and fierce in combat guy tries to grab Sauron by or kill him by grabbing him and burping into a candle uh I could get him to do it it was more unlikable rings of power Galadriel or Kate Kane so I have it probably rings of power Galadriel I lies there's something funny about yeah this is something okay I enjoy I wouldn't I wouldn't be upset seeing her again I kind of want to see I want to see Kate Kane again galatriel makes me cry every time I see her I'm like no no because both of them try so hard but I I don't know I guess Kate Kane just fails so in such a funny way um that it's just more entertaining and it makes me smile I miss her uh instead of forcing the Galadriel whole brand thing is it possible they change it so that her daughter calabrian is the product of her in Sauron feel like they would never do that but area things have happened I suppose and uh you know the old bets are off as if it goes on I think they're probably gonna get more Brazen with their breaches of lures that go just so Karen and I'm seriously pissed they didn't address what happened to the kids Kyle and Sarah legit the two best characters sorry dude nobody cares about can't help you I cannot help you no one can help you I know lots of people are asking for long Kong but I'd love to see you guys do Godzilla vs Kong a movie that manages to be horrible and stupid despite having five writers I don't know if this day and age you can say despite having five writers yeah well TV shows tend to have a good chunk of riders I guess with a film usually like if there's more than two it's usually like oh that's a lot of uh that's a lot of parents in the kitchen to each other here a little bit it just it's just that very often when you find out that a film is like cataclysmic like you look at how many people wrote it it's like oh it's I've been meaning for ages to sort of go through and try and sort of do a little short-termy kind of study thing like what's the average size of a writing team these days compared to even the 1990s or the 1980s because it does genuinely seem to be the like the more you have the worse it gets if you compare say like 2001 A Space Odyssey has Arthur Clark and Stanley Kubrick working together so there's two of them you compare it to a modern film which has anywhere between 4 and 12 writing writers on it and the quality is evidently so much worse but it's so reliably so much worse that you wonder why it is that they have these workshops as opposed to trying to find individual sort of creative people to to hem the whole thing from start to finish is expressing him Mordor guilt there's gonna be a lot more the next episode they're getting on the boat was embarrassing to watch oh yeah when she's getting the armor yes yes it was horrible it was terrible I don't know why they made such a huge deal out of it it makes you think bad things it's like I when we watched it we were both thinking the same thing just indulgent yeah take a Dark Souls power stamina and its recharge rate um ability to drink orange juice and recover health fast iframes at will or learnable sorcery mobile sorcery so we can knock out temporary iframes because I feel like sorcery might just be able to cover those sorts of things but if we say that it's sorcery except being able to go temporarily invisible in Invincible recovering Health fast is pretty cool but does that just mean healing fast not feeling it depends how that manifests you know is it just recovering from cuts and wounds or is it like your body is just constantly regenerating and replacing itself does that also immortality that was specifically you have to drink orange juice and you recover hell fast very strange I'm not sure exactly sure how that works but I feel it's fine because orange juice is always available you thought yeah it's not that is I just I'm curious mechanically how it all rolls out but yeah I think uh if I were deciding just based on what it says here I'd go with the sorcery yeah yeah any there's any different answers let me know I'll just give a chance okay even though all right even though I'm more of a Christmas person I'm definitely looking forward to your final destination Arc happy early Halloween you should it's gonna be funny those movies are very funny especially the fourth one I'm looking forward to that one coming now I am I am very excited to see these come out this is why you lock your layers fringy lesson learned LOL right before he says 10 right and I should have known that and I'm a bad man just said bringy just typed it out yeah I must have mulrod the great bids the welcome who has authority to treat with me uh Amazon I have a token I Was Bitten to show thee and then it's one star rating wasn't that um the Mouth of Sauron thing I think but that wasn't in the theatrical cut was it it wasn't and [ __ ] man uh the part where he shows the shirt and Marion Pippen start like saying like No And they start crying and Gandalf is like be quiet be quiet silence like don't say anything it's like so interesting because yeah they could they could so accidentally give Vital Information in the case that this [ __ ] was just taken and not Frodo the Gandalf holding out hope and he says it in such a way that implies that he's still fighting the fact that he's like oh [ __ ] is Frodo actually dead imagine the amount of sort of import that that scene has the cut scenes from the theatrical version of The Lord of the Rings versus the included scenes and rings of power even a short scene like that just has so much more or saruman's death although to be fair sarman's death scene actually really does detract from the theatrical version by not being there because I think so that's the only one that I think it's incredibly important that scene yeah I mean you can't explain otherwise how they got the planetary from um from eisengard without that but but just the idea that a few well a couple of minutes of cut scene from Jackson's films just outmatches anything even the most important scenes and rings of power is a pretty good comparative yeah let's see how far it's sunk wait someone Enchanted I hate that scene so much others are on the scene you hate it why what 100 oh freak hey don't call him not until he has bad reasoning then we can say it okay no I'll head to my bats I'm curious fireman doesn't die in the theatrical technically not yeah do they make any reference to Saruman being dead in the theatrical one no you don't see it I think there's a reference to the sort of the situation being resolved but he's it's not mentioned that he dies um in the theatrical version from what I remember but it's been a year since I last seen the theatrical version it doesn't fit his character out of sauron's character this is only seen in the movie I guess if she's saying it doesn't fit his book character Maybe no it does quite quite accurately maybe sauron's scene maybe but even that fits his character reasonably well in that case I'm not sure all right then watching Hot D and nude rot extremes makes me want to watch Game of Thrones worth it even just for the first few seasons hi Rags what's a good first pistol okay right before you answer that like should I watch A Game of Thrones it's like the the first answer is you could go as far as season four but then like do you really want to do that wash because that's the last four seasons there's a lot to be invested and enjoy and then just to be like well now stop even though there are still good scenes in and among season five six even seven I think I'm not sure about eight maybe in the first two episodes but um yeah so it's really hard for me to recommend Game of Thrones at all it's really difficult and I I'm not even sure I've decided yet but as for Hot D not gonna recommend that until either the end of season one and I can figure out a way to do it uh because it's good enough or I'm gonna wait until all three seasons are out um I've been very definitive about this how good it is does not define whether or not I'm going to be recommending it just yet right that Aragorn's character not the Mouth of Sauron you think Aragorn is out of character in the Mouth of Sauron scene the scene with marthasaurus holding up Frodo's shirt you think it's out of character for Arrow going to kill him everyone's everyone's seen it apparently is that does how do you guys feel I never considered it uh bad the navasauron's evil and he's talking about how he they tortured Frodo before they killed him yeah I don't I don't know I don't look at how he stopped theodon from killing grima so I thought that was a weird Choice actually into two towers when he stops him from killing grima and it has serious consequences him doing that it does but there's a difference because the whole sort of setup to the grima scene is that you know they realize that grima is not sort of the the originator of the evil in that scenario agreement is the person they're actually appealing to theyod and does appeal to grima oh no wait no you're talking about in The Two Towers right yeah well in the same sense I guess because grima isn't the big bad in that scenario agreement is as much manipulated by Saruman as uh as thereden has been in a way and that's why you get in the deleted scene in Return of the King they appealed to grima's uh sort of better nature against Saruman theater and tells him to calm down so that's part of grima's own sort of aborted Redemption Arc the Mouth of Sauron is simply that he is the Mouth of Sauron he's always a horrible monster person yeah in fact I don't even know yeah he's odd um there's probably an element too if green though was begging for his life on the ground helpless as you know and so that might have you know and as like an actual like a man clearly mortal creature that isn't some magic [ __ ] then you know there's there is probably that element of you know it probably shouldn't kill him it would be no it's not I mean I assume the logic is that he's almost like a messenger and you shouldn't Kill the Messenger but I imagine Aragon doesn't feel that way I think it's awkward I think it's just that we've we've broken the spell he's helpless and he can't hurt us anymore so to kill him here no no I'm talking about the song again oh I I assume that he's virtually an enemy commander combatant who is like I guess evil in some different sort of way who still represents some kind of a threat um operating in a more I guess official I think you have to also apply a variable of Aragorn's mental state he's not exactly chuffed with the news I think that is a totally fair I I wouldn't I definitely don't see it as out of character um either it's interesting to hear the perspective um anti-whitism ruined Lord of the Rings I don't know about that did it I think it's [ __ ] writing I mean I'm guessing hopefully they mean rings are found not loads of rigs they've just said Lord of the Rings oh sorry I skipped over the question uh Rags what pistol what'd you say was a good first pistol that was the other question oh I'd probably go with I don't know there's plenty of good choices to make honestly uh a lot of it will be determined by how it fits in your hand uh so for that I can't really make much of a recommendation but there's plenty of pistols that are A-Okay it's kind of like buying cars like a vast majority of them will probably be just A-Okay um I have uh I like Glocks myself I like their Simplicity I like the way they look um I think they're easy to shoot um so that's certainly an option that you could go with you can get plenty of police trade-ins uh that are pretty cheap if you need something on a budget I hear high points are not bad at all especially as a cheapo starter pistol to get you into just the basics of gun safety and things of that nature you know knowing you know having one to own and maybe any you know considerations that come along with you know Desert Eagle firearm oh do as someone who shot a desert eagle like the full thing not the 357 version of the 50 AE do not get a desert eagle that is excessive it's it's fun to be like wow this is nuts but you no don't don't it don't get a desert eagle no don't get a desert eagle even if they can shoot through anything of course don't get it Desert Eagle uh Hey mola have you seen Don't Hug Me I'm Scared TV show yet since you're from British lands I'd like to hear your opinion on the show I have not seen it but I've heard a couple of people asking about it I'm surprised it's gotten to that level even if of just people discussing it at all because it's like a parody satirey thing or rather an adult version of a kids program like a bunch of Muppets they're talking about maths and things but everything's just a bit off and creepy and then more of it things happen I think as the show progresses now it's kind of a fun idea I'm pretty sure it started it's just like a casual quick YouTube video that was like an idea like a full that could be wrong about all of that by the way I'd have to check the wiki but yeah give me five dollars for defending the honor of probability and combin combinatorics combinatorics all right well yeah I do my best I mean I'm I'm not sure exactly what the conclusion of all of that even was I I because I had missed like the opening of it and so I came in just listening to like percentages fractions we Wham I wasn't sure I think as is so often the case the conclusion was it was [ __ ] writing that we can all agree author is never wrong then tlj was flawless I don't think I don't think yeah even to be fit a little bit too like you say that if the author says the work is awesome that it is I don't I don't think that that's how it works even though Ryan would probably say his work is awesome he did say that none of the criticisms hold up yeah then he's wrong oh man he's very wrong very wrong has anyone asked thoughts on Andor it was refreshing to not have any fights in an episode but I'm disappointed to see people call it boring and bad I'm disappointed to see people call it boring too I want to leave people alone on the boring one Everyone's entitled to find anything boring whatever but still disappointed in it what I'm disappointed in is is suggesting that like there needs to be more things that connect it to Star Wars and that if it didn't have Star Wars on it it wouldn't be anywhere near as watched as it is it's like okay that's fine like if you wanted to say for example um Bulova field Lane 10 Cloverfield Lane nobody would have seen it if if it wasn't connected in the Cloverfield universe or something I'd be like that doesn't change how good the film is um up until like if you if you discount because I guess that's a part of the film to a degree as well but I guess what I'm suggesting is like if there were more x-wings more lightsabers more Reagans I said ray guns and blasters even more of those then you know it would be more star warsy and that would be better and it's just like guys I thought we just spent like the last million years talking about how much they they involve random Star Wars [ __ ] to just keep you involved like that's what those other shows were I'm not suggesting an outright ban on Star Wars items in a Star Wars show just bring in what's what should be there yeah I mean we know we're gonna get them even from the trailer you see Star Destroyers and Stormtroopers and death Troopers I think as well in the trailer that you you're gonna get that stuff but if you're suggesting that it can't be Star Wars unless it has those things all the time then you're sort of arguing for exactly what we've had up until this point in the Disney era it's just memberberry shed constraining the Universe I I the reason I like Andor is is because it expands it believably I've never looked at Andrew and thought this doesn't look or resemble style look like or resemble Star Wars in any way I think it actually to the extent it's good it actually adds depths and layers to the Star Wars universe and quite a star warsy way my problems with Andor didn't exactly have them have been largely to do with the writing like a lot of the payoffs in episode three don't actually uh stem from the build up in episodes one and two which I think is is something that's legitimate to criticize I think it's been a pleasant surprise so far in in that it's been quite mature and adult and it doesn't treat its audience as though they're idiots which is a good start and you can't complain about the bad writing and the formulaic nature of Marvel products for example and then criticize the show just because it doesn't exhibit the same traits which I think a lot of people have been doing with Andor I just because there is an action every five minutes well okay but are you happy with phase four no maybe then you should give it a chance and to clarify there are plenty of criticisms for Andor that involve consistency and uh character criticisms and just just general even talking about pacing to more detail than simply I am bored but uh yeah I've just been seeing a decent Chunk in several videos being like what is this show it feels like a show they just made and then they said by the way this is in the Star Wars universe which is fine a lot and it's like that's fine it's you're allowed to have that perspective sure you see we talked about this before with superhero stuff right and we were like like it sounds absolutely ridiculous like you could never make the father in a superhero Universe I was like but you could though you just like you're just so far away from it as a as a thing that you think it's almost impossible it's like but just having like a famous superhero has reached that age and Professor X is like I can stop referencing Logan it's like we're getting close just go down he's like yeah but it has to have action it's like does it and you could still have flashbacks if you really need it and you can you can tie them in to how this character at this age is losing memories and losing control of their brain and it can still be very allegorical it's just like the those are the experiments I really want to see even if they're bad it would be cool to see them as opposed to like failing the same way which is what phase four feels like to an extent um and or yeah uh you know I would say that the sentiment for efap so far is that we're impressed because we never expected Disney to come out with this we thought they were stuck in a in a particular sort of mode and to be fair this doesn't actually mean that they're not stuck in that mode because this was created before that main mode was solidified so they could still be in that mode but for now we get a whole season of not that [ __ ] so it seems to have escaped that yeah and it seems that most if not everybody agrees okay yeah it's not like it's not like Kenobi or Boba Fett okay well at least we're on that but yeah the main criticism we've seen for everybody is that it's boring it's very boring um the only way to really get an answer on that is to I think because like I I had it on Friday night tights I was like I'm not going to be able to I can't talk you out of finding it boring that's impossible uh the the way I would have to do it is to get you to tell me which scenes have nothing happening in it and then I would have to see if I could argue what we were learning in the scene and what was important in the scene and then see if you agree or disagree there's a couple but I mean that's bloat rather than boredom so there's a few unnecessary sort of introductions of people and or knows and has seen before in his daily life um I'm thinking the I saw the second or the third guy who turns up in the street in episode one I think uh to whom Andor owes money he has the alien friend as well um we never see those characters again I don't think it adds anything new to the dynamic we already understand this about Andor he is in debt and the sort of uh there's a net tightening around him but principally from below as well as above so you have the investigation by the police above him but you also have this declining charity amongst the people below him and he's running out of options he's running out of other people's charity we've had that we had that two or three times before we got that scene and that wasn't very long but it was there and it didn't need to be and it introduced another character who we'll never see again and took up time that could have been better spent I think developing some of the more important characters who were there aren't many of them but there were a couple who are underdeveloped in the first three episodes chiefly Tim um and you could have spent a bit more time with him and less time re-emphasizing a point that's already been made so there's a couple of little bits of bloat but I wouldn't sort of criticize it anymore though those things do serve a purpose and showing how and or treats uh people he owes money different ways depending on the relationship and what they're willing to do for him and they could also turn up in like episode five or whatever um that's true no I I see I see that point I think my point is that we've already established that thing about andor's character would be my only it's not even a very strong criticism it's just like if you're going to try and economize anywhere I would have colonized on that because it's already been established we've seen two or three other people to whom he owes money and we've already seen how he deals with different people differently depending on who they are and how much he owes we don't necessarily need the fourth and the fifth person and that sort of I think that can give the impression that it's taking longer than it really is to get to its point so I'm not saying that's a massive flaw I'm just saying that that's something which if you want to avoid the acquisition of boredom maybe you would economize on that area well the funny thing is that seniors saying a couple people in the Friday night stream who did find the show boring were saying that they liked that scene because of the funny aliens saying I don't understand here you remember that this that's that scene right so yeah as someone in chat mentioned it's just like yeah you just have to find out which scenes they found boring and how they Define sort of because that's the thing boring is useless it's it's the underlying stuff that you can actually get into and dig into and figure out what because different people find different things boring right like I could someone there's someone out there who said dog strange 2 was boring throughout I just be like you found it boring okay yeah sure it's possible I guess because if you just overloaded in action and nonsense magic and stuff you're just sit there like I don't care you know it's possible you have to you have to dig a bit but yeah there are even from e5's point of view there are plenty of criticisms for the show I just um I was just I just didn't want to see that as the main criticism it is a bit reminiscent of Bly not quite the same thing because I think Bly is heads and toes heads and shoulders sorry ahead of of Andor but at the same time um there was a lot we were we were getting interested in scenes wise and it's like oh people find this boring it's like I wouldn't even know might have given it quite a few more episodes before trying to rip into it for anything in in any way just to see exactly where they were trying to go with everything because one of the things I I think is really true YMS felt this way about movies I think that you haven't really really consumed it until you see it more than once in terms of like have you really gotten everything do you really know and you could say the same for seeing a season of TV to go back and see what they were what may have seemed innocuous is now very meaningful because you know what it was leading to sort of thing it's possible um but at the same time hey man if everyone finds it boring I guess it was kind of boring at least in that in that metric and that it has to be you have to come to a point where it has to be accepted to some degree that a lot of people just find it boring what I will say is there will be consequences to that reaction it'll it'll tell Disney stuff especially if the message from Kenobi wasn't that it you know like if they were like people didn't find Kenobi boring they just thought it wasn't very well executed in a couple of ways they're like us you want more Kenobi we just need to fix up maybe the action because they don't want more and all they're finding that boring that's the worst thing is boring you know it's possible this could have really bad results if everyone's like ah [ __ ] andal and when it could be the one chance to be like this is a better Direction Disney this is a better Direction uh will it be an efat mini for Randall so the problem I'm having is I have literally got no time to make them and I'm but I I might try and make them so that they're all it's a hill house style they all just released as one big video and they're a lot less lower editing Style so that you can at least get our coverage of it in that format um but uh because I don't think I can release them as individual minis right now the Halloween Arc is still not ready to go and it's releasing so and I got loads of other stuff to do you know how it works Halloweeny times anyway any of you guys checked out resident alien really good character development resident alien I forgot about that it's Alan turdic I've never heard of it myself so I don't I think it's a show on sci-fi though so you know make of that what you will uh you guys seen Shin Godzilla I might have I can't remember if that's the one I've seen I don't think I have seen it well all right then bring your favorite trios of horror episodes um man five is is really good that's the uh the one with the the running joke of Willie getting acts in the back you know I would actually go as far as saying Seasons like three or four up to like season 10 or something just all of them yeah there were a lot of good Treehouse of Horrors I'm uh I'm a big fan of of that one though in particular that's a really good one everyone the Gremlins on the side of the bus yeah that was a good one and then Otto there's a gremlin on the side of the Box in a small man hey no problem part dude I'll take care of it she's [ __ ] kills a man because pot says it's a gremlin and then like he he manages to just softly roll into a ditch and then his car explodes you have to you have to include that one part right before he explodes he just goes but that just blows up oh man uh they were three see it I because I had my this is this is see this is consistent with my character my favorite collection tapes of of any Simpsons with the trios of horror ones I like treasured those ones the most Treehouse of Horror was was um that was always one of the things I really enjoyed in The Simpsons like Treehouse of Horror was so much fun I remember I want to see if I can find it actually the tape I see it in my head I think it was the family but as um The Adams Family or something yeah I remember that one I think I had the the hell one do you remember that one Heaven house like heaven and hell I think was yeah that was one of my favorite tapes as well it had a really good selection I had a apartment a heretic which is a really great episode yeah so they yeah they are The Addams Family or at least no way I'm not sure actually because Maggie's like an alien oh it could be the monsters yeah actually that might be it um anyway that that tape had cheers of horror five six seven and twelve interesting collection six was a really good one I think that's the one that had the uh when the the the Billboards and stuff came to life right uh which one do you say sorry I think six Billboards when they came to life yeah it's got in this Halloween themed Anthology advertising icons go berserk and attack of the 50-foot isos groundskeeper Willie invades the children's dreams that's a [ __ ] great one as well and Homer enters a 3D World of computer animation yeah that one's great too oh dude the one with with Willie the smart weather do not touch Willie good advice and then he turns up the thermostat and then Willy catches on fire like God please help me Willy Please Mr ran out and how's the floor then oh [ __ ] I can't remember what he even says but it's really funny that the thing that Van Houten is like complaining about oh my God I'm getting nostalgic heavy from this [ __ ] tape so final one Joseph horror 12 hex in the city of gypsy kisses Homa bringing misery to everyone he loves I remember that because modular grows a beards Bots neck goes all floopy yeah Lisa does Lisa turn into an animal of some kind I can't remember but the second one is when Pierce Brosnan is uh Hal in the house and he falls in love with Marge and you know I associate that [ __ ] episode that specific individual episodes event like is this three stories per one right I remember when that one starts I have a distinct feeling of Odo the tape is coming to the end that's so weird yeah I got you yeah and then the last one is the Harry Potter type one Whiz Kids button least for students to the school for wizards where they try to foil the evil Lord Monty Mort y Mort oh it was a good tape it's a good one mm-hmm sorry anyway yeah dude I wouldn't be surprised if I if I have us do like uh just just made you watch The Simpsons and midi format someday maybe like one per week or something that would be fun it'll be easy to edit and talk about why not uh a little platoon did you know that England is your city no England is my city where it says he said it I did not know that no but now I do so thank you sweet also I see Frankie changed his profile pic to a blue bird embracing your bird Heritage I see that's my Halloween I'm cassowary that's very scary yes it is scary yeah I thought it would be uh a fun I hadn't organized it ahead of time foolishly stupidly do they all have red eyes or just uh yours in particular is particular they have kind of like brownish eyes but I decided to push up the the red a little bit but yeah they do kind of have brownish eyes Mueller although I do love Rhapsody of fire Epica has become my favorite symphonic metal band also X-Files is to me as Buffy is to you everyone should have an equivalent of what Buffy is to me that that's uh good to have you know and I never saw X-Files other than a couple of episodes but I'd like to as far as I know that show's pretty cool as for Epica maybe I'll try and listen to some of it thanks for the suggestion uh you called it follow the you qualified it by saying the Greek games were less so it's absolutely the other way around neither exactly faithful there's no [ __ ] way that you could consider the Greek games more faithful than Norse ones you'd be insane ready is that I don't there's what Universe where they just say like this is Pandora's Temple Pandora's Box is in it the gods want you to kill Ares because he's destroying Athens for some reason like that's just happening meanwhile the amount of law the sheer amount of law in Norse uh the Norse version right where all the different things you can read and pick up now it's not to say that they didn't completely change the events to match what they wanted to uh adapt but it would be absolutely insane to say the Greek games are more faithful when they'd like what they use from the Greek stuff at least in the first no I probably say all three of them the most they do is just reference what we're familiar with which is like Zeus why is lightning bolts he [ __ ] a lot of people I think so somebody does Pandora's Box was just given to some dude um well the thing is because Kratos isn't exclusively made up right there's some things that he's vaguely based on as far as I know I didn't know that uh it's like it's like there's like a an equivalent that begins with it's like C like instead of K there's a God someone in chat might know um but yeah uh it sounds as though as someone who's not partial to either Greek or Norse it's like just by playing the games you can tell which one they delve deeper into to try and uh sort of match or form the game around and again I don't blame him for that they can do whatever they want they can adapt it just as much or just as little as they want you get varying results like a waititi did it worked out he did yeah that's uh you sure did he didn't give a [ __ ] did he no he didn't doesn't seem like he did that's a shame man that though I will say in in a sense it was a good thing that he did that video or he's making insulting the visual effects artists work because it's like just reminds people like yeah this system of making films is really bad where even the where the director is there criticizing work that they didn't even have enough time to do and you got a cratis c-r-a-t-u-s is the he's like some people saying he's an enforcer for Zeus so again this is what I mean it's like loads has been heavily edited and then uh there's not much reference to the events in the Greek world even in the trilogy meanwhile one game in the Norse one this is the thing they've changed their approach everyone can tell this from from the original trilogy to the new game it's neat it's different but um like to say it's the the the the least faithful would be the Norse one uh I just go as far as saying it seems almost impossible if not hilarious as a statement um yeah like I'd be happy to concede neither of faithful in strictest sense but we know which one is more faithful uh little platoon sounds really really gay or just really British is there a difference really no unclear we'll have to fight get our scientists on it ask again later God of War Assassin's Creed Dante's Inferno I've experienced these games only in their punished forms on PSP konichiwa rag Zoo oh hello hmm a PSP I mean Assassin's Creed for PSP um they made an Assassin's Creed for PS Vito ah that might be good assuming I no idea I have no clue it was probably good for PlayStation Vita which is an interesting sort of standard well because it kills our mercenary I liked um that was like a portable Killzone game but like I liked that for as its own thing more so than just like well for a PlayStation video game yeah kind of you know it's kind of the same with the Uncharted game on PS Vita it's like yeah it's cool for a portable game uh it wouldn't have been hard to say it should have been wine but it was some fire water easy Intrigue plot that would have better led to the next story beat am I gonna just be oil isn't fire water whiskey why why not just make it only like liquor yeah oil used for the lanterns and for war purposes or whatever I don't know I didn't even need to have it at all he could have just started yeah that's true it's made of wood made of wood you don't need to explode them he could have just started a fire in the lower deck pool in the trailer though maybe he maybe as an accident that the smoke wakes up isildur uh and uh if silver waking up distracts The Saboteur who maybe bumps his head as he's trying to escape and haste now he's starting to panic something like that and silder has to rescue him did you play Age of Mythology no except the Age of Empire's expansion I'm not sure it is um Age of Mythology at least in 2002 I don't know it looks like it's its own thing developed by Ensemble Studios published by Microsoft game studios well Ensemble made Age of Empires so it's it's in the Age of Empires Series wiki so I don't know if it's like a spiritual side step from that series or if it's technically a part of the series I just I'm just not sure it sounds Vaguely Familiar but I couldn't place it yeah it says yeah it looks like it might not technically be one but it is one in essence hi rags hello did you like scp-3000 look at scp-2764 2764 that's where it says and I have to double check uh scp-3000 was all right yeah I think I liked I did like scp-3000 yeah I did like it I thought it was a really neat idea that was presented in a decent way um I'd have to look up two seven six four though I'm I I haven't read this one any Age of Mythology has Greek Norse and Egyptian all in one game sounds cool um by the way as I was just thinking surely the adaptation for both uh the Greek and the north would actually just be considered nil because he's British is going to kill every God in both pantheons so I'm gonna assume that's not a part of their law yeah but at the same time there's clearly way more present in the Norse games for they'll even have like you know the story of when Thor and uh like a a giant from yonheim [ __ ] fight and uh uh you know for whatever that's completely disconnected from the events in the actual game and I would assume I'd have to check because they don't have any reason to contradict what I'd imagine is in the actual Norse myths uh are accurate or at least to a degree because through translation which is another thing I heard by the way that Norse translating the Norse myths is like complicated and there's several different things you can read in terms of exactly what events transpired which goes the same for Greek too hence why they're considered myths right as opposed to uh how does something get defined as a myth I have no idea I didn't tell you um I don't know it probably depends on you know who you ask in the time periods but it this definition says a traditional story especially when concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon and typically involving supernatural beings or events and the second definition is a widely held but false belief or idea all right uh superhero version of the father everything the same but he's also now actually pretty dangerous as his mental powers and physical power can lash out yeah that's why the Logan reference is coming in yeah obviously Professor X's deterioration has a significant effect both before the events of that movie on in it I people please check Wonder forau 1917 the trailer an efat meme starring the efap crew oh do we need to say that for a meme episode also bleed I think the title of a song you've heard and add in my ass well I'll keep chat busy until the end of this stream I'd imagine I was thinking uh the Twilight my ass in Twilight in my ass one of my favorite songs is Emerald swords so that's not good you don't have those not good at all okay in my ass Muse Supermassive Black Hole in my ass yeah my ass what the application is uh uh for example the Disney song title Someday My Prince Will Come you put your name my Prince Will Come from Snow White yeah Digimon okay my Prince Will Come in my ass the Snow White's yeah she she likes it yeah you can tell you can tell by looking at her assuming she's 18 and a consenting adult of course I don't know what the [ __ ] p-a-l-man oh this is one I remember yeah this is the one who turns into the cactus and then the cactus turns into a fairy I don't know you do I don't know at least the fairy is vaguely Flora themed yeah it it you have the weird plant thing here then it turns into a cactus with with boxing gloves then that turns into a somewhat plant-themed fairy creature that's Evolution folks yes unfortunately don't have the money to qualify this that's for about the how it's more faithful to Greek than than Norse I mean the fact that you introduce yourself is like familiar more so with Norse mythology probably explains why you think they're more uh they're more caring when it comes to Greek I'd imagine anyone who's super familiar with Greek would find the first three God of War Games to be insulting when really they're just having fun with Greek and Norse but they clearly read up on their Norse uh when they made God of War 2018 compared to reading up on their uh they're Greek because it comes across God of War 1 is more so a game that you could have made with like any group of friends coming up with and they're aware the awareness of the Gods and you know because the thing is they contradict themselves man like all the gods look completely different in the first game compared to the third one um they change their minds as they went on this is exactly what they're going to do and of course Freighters killing them all for Revenge I don't think that's in any of the myths uh as well as because this is the thing I'd have to go read them all but I'm like I said I'm just going from a cursory glance pretty sure there's a hell of a lot more effort related to the law of Norse than there is of Greek which would imply to me naturally intrinsically almost that the accuracy is going to be more so present with the North um but I suppose if I was adapting tolkien's work and you compared mine with rings of power and all mine was was a was just like a forest and gandalfs in it and he's just walking around and that's it that's my whole story you might consider mine more accurate than rings of power because there's there's less to get wrong but I don't think what what they did with the Greek era would be considered accurate I don't even think it'd be considered close um but maybe this maybe I'm completely wrong about that um I'd have to I'll have to go look at Reddit threads to see what the experts say familiar with both just don't have the money then don't you worry about it well no problem Raiders will continue to butcher the gods until he reaches his ultimate form Pontius Pilate where he will lose against Jesus's respawn hi Frankie Frankie would have said hi he's a little bit busy yeah he's busy um versus match up Mario vs Kirby games only I think Kirby wins that right it's unfortunate that during this question fringy is unfortunately tending to something and he's away um well we can we can chat about something until he comes back I'm sure but my guess would be would be Kirby Kirby is like incredibly resilient and possibly a supernatural alien creature that's potentially lovecraftian from what I've heard from law or is it that it could be just battles of crafting enemies not quite the Kirby's anyway of crafting but Mario's quite killable in all of his iterations Kirby is too but at the same time Kirby just seems like it's it's harder to kill Kirby it seems but uh don't worry what was the question sorry I missed it who wins Mario vs Kirby games only Kirby wins from what I understand heavy destroyer of will something like that oh Kirby beated beat Karl Marx in the games and the first one I look I'm not an expert on Kirby law hmm well um that that that that is it we caught up with the super chance for the days obviously which means hey where did that happen all right um I I was gonna say that that just uh we're probably gonna wrap it up there because now we're gonna need to be able to eat food go to sleep and then go back to streaming and talking about rings of power because uh that's that's what it is oh another one came in saying flames appreciate it thank you very much um yeah uh what his brain's a little bit melty yeah um well Lots uh like do you got any put your plug plug your Channel uh yes what I'm actually even doing oh well if I have time between now and going to bed I need to finish off my hour-long and or video which will hopefully be out tomorrow um I'm just filling in like little expression shots and stuff but that will theoretically be out before evap tomorrow and then it's back to rings of power I'll have recovered maybe probably not I hope the same goes for all of us another one just popped in saying name one media where no one has managed to properly criticize it and uh and it gets unfair criticism or undeserved praise nothing in the middle um my brain isn't working very well at the moment so I'm struggling all right my head keeps going to overrated stuff but then I'm like well that's not gonna same um Inception one said end game hey Frankie's right there and we're right here yeah right here we share his opinions on that movie that fine fine film someone said ukulele right and it's like I don't think many people were saying that game is a masterpiece most people were saying it was [ __ ] Sonic the Hedgehog under or overrated well so we're looking for something that either people say is a masterpiece or terrible when the reality is it's in the middle hmm maybe um maybe The Last of Us so maybe that's the one we will go with that for now perhaps there will be better answers as time goes on yeah maybe all right well yeah so um the plan right now is that you'll get this efap will probably release on Monday think and then the one that we're going to be making live tomorrow will probably come out the following Saturday and that there won't be another e-fab then because we've already doubled up like twice so we'll just instead actually have a day where we can do other things in life instead um and the Wednesday that's coming up we'll still try and spend to do some form of catching up if you don't see it live it's because it's offline instead it'll just be dependent on different factors and then yeah so that that I think that will make sense and then it'll be tight but as soon as we're done on efab it might have to get cut off early so that I can go on to the Hot D discussion portion um but I'm hoping we'll be done by then because that that will be two hours ago uh tomorrow that's that's what my limit would be so it would still it would be a seven hour stream at maximum we should be able to get through this episode right hopefully there is a I feel a little a logistical limit on how long we could actually go right it would I'm pretty sure we will build a backs out that far so we should be okay all right boy uh they said Christmas hat of his Halloween pick one we we asked you this on the when you're on the previous one right I think your answer little platoon was you're a Christmas person for the sort of events but the media you'd be Halloween first yeah Halloween has better films Christmas is a nicer like Festival um we should have asked this brew that was a mistake we might if I can ask him tomorrow I'll try when I remember if I remember maybe maybe we can make it um yeah and then of course so other than that you got your there's the the schedule for the efap Halloween movies Arc is is in the end of the Karen and Final Destination trailer I'll tell you um and there's going to be a mini that's going to come out in the middle of all of it I don't know if you remember it uh Rags bringing the um Now You See Me thing yeah I don't remember that that is finally gonna go out because it's in a suitable time so yeah you'll be getting this weird 17 minute I think it is or 11 minutes uh mini that's pretty highly edited it's the most highly edited mini you'll ever see I think out of all of them but it was pretty funny and it happened in between recording movies um so you got that to enjoy and then yeah we've got just loads of other stuff that we'll be doing as well so um is Jay longbone in it she is well as I think she want heads in it I don't I think that's the one that is why I'm asking it for that it doesn't matter you'll find out uh oh yeah uh Frankie Rags anything you guys wanted to mention no I don't think so um man new video is real close to being done but I just I'm still there's just a few things I want to finish up with it so I can't give you a date but it's it's real close to being done is it worth mentioning for them to not set their expectations to a video like endgame it's it's a pitiful polemics right pedophile polemics little smaller video so it's probably close to like 10 minutes it's a topic Focus the big critique I'm working on it but it's not you're not getting it soon um it's it's uh same goes for my next one as well uh as for this one it's more so just that um I'm happy that every time I think that there might be an opportunity to like spend more time on it to get a better joke or I don't know just make it better but I'm seizing each of those opportunities it just means that it keeps getting delayed and for this one right for the end I've decided to do something that might take way longer than I think it will take so but I'm uh I I like the idea so yeah it's soon but I can't I can't say when sorry um is that what we is that it then is it real just making sure everything's been said that was meant to be said if it's good I think so um I think so I mean one more Super Chat came in yeah what about extraordinary gentleman efat movies if you mean the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen uh that's been recorded right we did record that or did we watch it casually I'm sure we did I'm trying to remember part of our little Arc yeah we talked about I think Drinker was on it too yeah well if it was yeah if it was recorded you'll get it one day but that's not being worked on right now so can't promise when that'll ever happen if I yeah I'd rather not promise anything um there'll be more clarity about the nature of a lot of different Productions once a lot of things are set in motion the first big milestone for me is going to be the end of December where I get my new setup what I'm looking forward to now I'm still on my scuffed setup as one might refer to it uh and did you play any Legacy of Kane no I did not nope I have not me either nope all right and with that I bid you all a due we play sleeps now and you all can sleep too if you wanna we'll be back soon enough to cover the next episode of the Rings of the lord of the power of the Rings how exciting I can't wait to see what happens next woohoo okay yeah bye everybody

Channel: MooLer

Views: 159,082

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Id: jdDTiBDY6yk

Length: 537min 10sec (32230 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 03 2022