EFAP #130 - EFAP defend Cosmonaut Variety Hour from BvS: A Modern, True, Actual Artistic Masterpiece

boom all right we did it well thanks for watching i'll see y'all oh wait we start oh there's something i'm [ __ ] up no this is the beginning of the beginning wait it's so much to begin you just remember to hit record now we've been going at this for like seven hours we covered seven thousand videos it's such amazing yeah and there was so many good memes oh oh well now we got something really really strange to show you guys first real strange very very unusual um no no as you're aware there are many platforms on this thing we call the internet and uh us boomers we're stuck on youtube and then by extension twitch and twitter and some others maybe but there's some spooky ones out there that i don't think any of us five have ever even looked into you do you know of one called tike toke i think it's japanese what toke sounds like the chinese off-brand version of a chinese off-brown version or something i remember when it first started i was just like what a cringe platform people just like play music and do commentate or whatever it's like oh it's like hyper popular now even well isn't it the same thing as vine back in the day yeah it's just well vine v2 i guess but like it's also other stuff i don't want to pretend to like i seriously feel like maximum boomer on tick tock i'm just like i don't know how it works i don't know really what it's for i don't know why people are there but they're all young people who are on it they name themselves after a shitty kesha song see that's how you knew it was doomed to start with um because youtube usually gets insulted because it's like wow you named yourself after the the creators but you're not really about that are you that's usually what the line is twitter is just it's probably a good name actually google is a good name you know how it goes tick tock though yes goop is the good name oh goosey fantastic name so did someone dm me this i don't know who this guy is dub snapple facts is the the profile so cause tick tock has an absolute garbage [ __ ] uh oh my god is that a url that is the url yes oh boy that's an actual url oh my god what i need you to do is to load up the page and then click the video and then pause it as soon as you can and try and get to the beginning so that we can have some form of a [ __ ] sync because it's just absolute cringe how everything works here oh this is the video do i hear about user interfaces when they have a binary mute system like no slider it's just like oh uh you're in for a treat and this is me thinking that they had they had the modern upper hand you know tick tocks all fresh new and hip [ __ ] mute all full volume it's like thanks i can't i don't know i can't even play it you can't scroll either you have to like the way it works for me is that you hit refresh and then like it just automatically plays the video it zooms in and then you click it again and it pauses that's what i've learned it's like crap wow what a terrible website you should be ashamed of yourself it's [ __ ] horrible and i'm assuming even if someone was like well no this isn't the app i'd be like i don't they're still in control of the [ __ ] browser version so get with the times yeah this is the frame that i'm on oh man every time i play i it hasn't even started yet for me oh you have to refresh it yeah so oh if you guys can just try and get to as early in the video as you can by hitting refresh playing it and pausing it straight away if you can dude there's not a slider bar on it nope oh my god what a horrific platform yeah well yeah like i said youtube seems to have the upper hand here but uh is everyone able because like what we're gonna do is try and sink at the near the beginning of his video let him run it's it's about a minute long and then we'll respond to it after because um it's a nightmare to be able to sink pausing on this all right this i guess this video is called youtuber i think our [ __ ] part two so english is clearly not his first language no so we got to cut him a little bit yeah and um i was i was sent this and they said it's about you and i was like okay um is everyone able once i hit say go to to press play near the beginning yeah sure yeah take a look at uh all right next one three two one go don't like and think our [ __ ] let's [ __ ] go okay uh this is mueller if you don't like the new star wars movies that's fine to each their own however this guy is just sad he's just but he's talked about the last jedi uh for six hours and jesus i like the movie and i can't talk about it for six hours jesus six hours and they're all like [ __ ] nitpicking like smart i haven't watched a full video so they're all insufferable however just him talking about well you know um luke says uh you know no one is from nowhere and then in the very next sentence he says jack who's from nowhere like make up your mind luke come on just just get a life jesus christ wow oh god i thought this was almost done but just thinking about these [ __ ] hurts me here this is part two so that's it um what so i think you're an [ __ ] because you built your [ __ ] thing on nothing yeah i don't you talk about how that doesn't like that you talk about the the jakku line i think almost most of it revolves around how the tone doesn't make any sense there's so much wrong with yourself to an attempted comedy there's so there's so much wrong with this okay so first of all his main argument is just long which is like fantastic as a represent like criticizing someone else's content when all you did was just you do a rant video on your on your phone when you sit down in your room like excellent just dynamite this is the height of content this is the height of content then claims doesn't watch the video but it knows it's full of nitpicks right and so he does something slightly better than most people he gives an example now ladies and gentlemen i don't remember saying what he said i said uh when i heard that i was like wait the jakku line where he says um uh where he like where are you she says i'm from nowhere and he says nobody's from nowhere and she says jakku and then he goes okay that is pretty much nowhere i remember having a like a five to ten range feeling about that line i was like oh you know not bad but the the weird thing when i heard it in the film was like oh that felt a little bit weird coming out of that luke this luke seems so dour and depressed and hoboish that it's like it just seems so strange that you'd say it so i was like well this shouldn't be too hard to find right like it's just in the first tlj video uh one sec because he said that i said that it's a contradiction like you shouldn't say that someone can nobody's from nowhere but also that jack who's from nowhere that doesn't make sense i was like that sounds like just not something i would say yeah it doesn't can i look at the the comments oh i have to log into tick tock to look at comments or why is it the reply button i guess i can't click that oh that's to share youtubers i don't like yeah i can't comment it's just ass the whole thing yeah i just wanna i just to look at comments so i don't want to make any i don't want you just even better garbage if you go to a different tab and then return to it it automatically stops playing oh my god you're right oh [ __ ] the the uh i chinese pulled up the website so in critics he hates yeah there's there's no [ __ ] and then you mentor that sorry yeah and phil minto damn and then youtubers i love one of them is missed sunday movies and the second one is cosmonaut variety how can you like film it how can you hate how can you hate fomento but like cosmo is it i the strange world out there out there cosmonaut actually focuses on nitpicks in shorter reviews when he's talking about why something is bad typically yeah he's just happy he noticed something is everyone in the watch together because uh i'm gonna show you that part that he just he just talked about see here um does it should have been playing already not yet one movement okay okay here we go so yeah like i said his uh coverage of this was that i thought it was a contradictive line and then i'm nitpicking the dialogue let's see what i said a temple that's inside a tree and wants to know who she is they then have a back and forth and luke goes from this extremely gruff no-nonsense disheveled man to cracking a joke here and there commenting on how nobody is from nowhere but jakku is indeed pretty much nowhere so now we left to wonder if luke is actually just being difficult since he clearly is able to engage in levity or is this just an attempt to keep the script from feeling too dull rey then says she needs that's it hmm i'm simply actually seems a little bit out of character considering what we've learned so far uh for him to make a general oddity but it could be explained by the fact that they don't want the script to fall into it like a downward depressing position so they throw a joke in here and there literally nothing to do with the line being contradictive in terms of like points being made just that it seems out of character for him um yeah i guess we just another totally inaccurate comment made by someone who didn't do their research and doesn't really care just fascinating you know i bet that phone video was really tough to make i got five hours of coverage and he went to one position he concluded the entire thing is nitpicks and he didn't even get it right and then concludes you're an [ __ ] like how about you go [ __ ] yourself well yeah i was gonna say it's the last concerning that he he managed to misrepresent my stuff it's more concerning that he's a huge fan of cosmonauts like oh no well you're doomed um he hates you and he hates fomento but he likes cosmonaut what a bizarre i find it i just i don't that was just like a one minute ramble that was worthless and it has like twelve thousand views i was like how does tick tock even work i don't know i don't yeah and it's it's it's weird because it's like you're there sort of screaming as well yeah it's like he's really upset he's doing the whole [ __ ] like you didn't even watch the video are you okay or something [ __ ] substitute whenever people do the whole get a life thing it's like you people like you gotta what is wrong with you like what does it actually matter to you what somebody else does with their time does this apply to all youtubers like when youtubers make several 10 minute videos over the course of a month as opposed to when we're taking a cup like a few months or so or streams a day every day like all the time precisely it's time to spend at the computer regardless um yeah like how i i mean because of course it's like oh it's like oh it's six hours long it's like well how many hours do you spend at work every day you will spend like 40 hours working it like he likes it i can't even talk about it that much and i like it i'm like wait why is it that you liking something or hating something determines how long you talk about it how long you can talk about it i imagine that you can't talk very long about any movie that you like to be honest again impression i would just argue i can't talk very long about anything i don't feel much for it has to be like or hate like typically you care about your uh passion right well having reasons passion passion is subjective maybe he's just not as passionate about film as you are well this is the fundamental right like we talked about before but just uh even one line from a from a movie can have you going for ages depending on what the stuff where the discussion goes never been one to be like whoa guys we've gone over the time limit stop it don't you think we've talked about mandalorian long enough it's like 20 hours now in total for the two seasons and it's like well we probably haven't covered everything but i guess you know yeah we can always find more to talk about in fact i guarantee we could well what i noticed is like people mainly have an issue with it when you're picking apart their sacred cow well he said it's okay to um it's okay to like not like the last jedi or the sequels right and then he [ __ ] about how you don't like him sort of i thought he was gonna go on to talking about zack snyder stuff because that was in one of the hashtags on that link oh maybe maybe it's brought on by that like maybe it has hashtag dceu rawbat batonbat hashtag filmtic yeah he has fat yeah he has hashtag dceu um well you know what that's an easy segue we're going to talk a lot about the dcu as time goes on yeah and it's [ __ ] it's really bad uh that's horrific the most recent one we watched was aquaman right in the uh the lineup of movies yes we have watched aquaman we will want to check out some takes on aquaman now here is a straw poll that the the viewers at home will have access to when this comes out you have a choice i top filmmento just right captain midnight full fat videos and round table all have videos on aquaman now you simply check the ones that you'd be interested in seeing i know that's tough for the cast here yeah we're not going to take any of them but oh so we we vote we select all that apply all the ones that you'd be like yeah i would mind seeing that for example i i don't know that any of you want to watch another filmmento video maybe maybe not i i don't i don't so what you would do in that case is tick all of them accept his and then what we'll do is release this to the good ol efab chat like right now as this is premiering uh in the future and then they'll be like oh my god i'm gonna choose you know both avenues and round tables i hate the rest yeah it honestly it could be any selection of um any number just it's just gonna be interesting to see who ends up on top once the release is in public so you're actually going to put the straw poll in the description this time uh have i noticed that's in the description so i think i think that this was um this happened in one of the e-fat movies or uh one of the pre-recorded efaps where you said there would be a like a straw poll and um there wasn't there was never a straw poll in the description it might have been effect 124 possibly what the book look thing no no no it was something completely different i don't know if this was effect 124 or if it was the man of steel e-fat movies it it might have been the man of silly fat movies um but i remember seeing a lot of comments like mauler where's the straw poll link i think the problem with that is like there's probably going to be a better time to do a straw pull for the dcu once it's over the arc is complete as in as complete as it can get once we get through the last three oh yeah that's what the audience think well i also want to amend something that i uh i i saw someone in the comments corrected a word that i used uh i said implacable when i meant intangible regarding what the martian manhunter can do um i i use the completely wrong word saw a comment saying apparently in the planet that southpaw comes from implacable means intangible as like [ __ ] i use the wrong word so there we go all right uh okay that i think does it uh we're ready to the thing is there's a plan to watch um a certain video today but like i am really desperate to watch one ahead of it that's so much funnier like because i i tested out a little bit so the reason i saw this one is because uh trash in um it was either tragic thunder s i can't quite remember in discord where uh they posted it and they were just taking some quotes out of it and one of the quotes they had i saw it and i was like no do they say that or that i played it i was like oh um this video is only 13 minutes so perhaps we can get through it right relatively quick sure um it is the quintessential video essay it is so awesome and i love that stuff like this gets made um earnestly i guess because it just reminds me of like our jobs will never be over there's always going to be more so first i want to show you the thumbnail and this is not a joke this is art i mean i agree it is but i agree with the technicality i feel like this sentiment i don't quite agree with but yeah it's hard generally speaking when you're calling something art it's not just being descriptive like uh like a movie it will always technically count as a piece of art it's like this is seriously like amazing they mean to say that it's it it is a particularly high example yeah rags is on point he would argue this is our and civil war isn't this is would he oh is he he's well i'm not gonna i'm not saying that's something he said i'm saying that's what i would assume he would say i think civil war comes up in this video um because this is the thing zack snyder's bvs is kind of a masterpiece i don't know if you guys knew that um i didn't know that so it's nicked by me you might even say it this is the thing it's so funny to us because we do it the reverse way so they would be like it's a masterpiece masterwork it has so many references to all these kinds of philosophical fundamentals it is art while we would be like it is art but it's really [ __ ] like you know we go the different direction with the conversation um so yeah like i said it's got so many trappings of of classic video essay [ __ ] so i'm very happy it feels very 101 for if i have to go through this one not too long and it is called a modern masterpiece why batman versus superman is a true work of art um true like exciting i way prefer checking out true works of art than those fake ones i don't know about you guys yeah fake art is [ __ ] i hate the banana on the wall that's fake art but this that's fake it's true so uh i have i've watered my jabs i'm ready to go here we go piano music let's see oh we start with a we start with a quote up oh quick hold up yeah yeah just go back hold up okay all right bring it back all right okay here we go it's difficult to find a movie that feels true to itself you feel the hand of hollywood the movie making by committee on everything right um um okay so some i mean there are people out there who would discount anything with like a plus 100 million dollar budget like like in terms of being able to reach that level that is being referred to in this statement like a movie won't be true to itself if it's got a bazillion different people's funding it and pushing it to be different things and i think the last thing that ever gets considered this level is [ __ ] the most mainstream highly funded superhero movies they're usually not allowed in this team um it's like sci-fi movies aren't allowed to win proper academy awards we on e5 are much kinder than that we're like well what is it let's have a look see what's in it what did it do i don't really care who made it or how it was made i just want to know what it is because is the implication that a committee could never make something good which is dumb that is well done and similarly are you is the implication that a person no one can ever have a bad vision yeah because i mean all you need to do is look at like the fan fiction people write to know that people who are just given whatever they you know who just do whatever they want just because you have something to say doesn't mean that it's worthwhile just because you have a passion doesn't mean you're good at that thing and what if um you know this guy is saying this about bvs and then zack snyder in 10 years comes out and says you know what i wasn't really involved at bvs like i know a lot of people love it and they consider it like oh such a great movies it was just like you know i didn't it didn't really have much of my input in it then loads of behind the scenes stuff opens up like this 10 writers there was three directors doing different scenes at once i'd just be like man your favorite movie was made by committee how do you feel i guess the committee got it right yeah so um but of course it's very interesting to think about because it's like is the implication that like a a piece of media needs a central guiding vision because like video games for instance are incredibly collaborative as a process for development like that those are going through several people but there are still some really good games that came out of that process and there are some really bad games that one person made that nobody told him what he could do and i would argue it's not feels true to itself that's way too vague for me i'd be like can you um can be more specific i guess generally i would probably prefer that a director have more of an influence over their film than less um generally yeah generally sure it might be interesting more interesting i don't think you can write it off because it was interfered with and then of course it depends on the director right like when edward wright was doing ant-man i would have preferred it if they didn't interfere at all because i trust him as a director but like zack snyder is a different story there's so many dramatic ironies in terms of like oh wonder woman 84 that was her own project oh prometheus alien covenant that's just uh really getting his own [ __ ] done and it's like ah okay and then you know civil wars we've been over before is one of those movies that produces people who will like push the writers to do particular things they applied restrictions one of them being tony has to be in this story and it's like oh but i think that made it way better so your restrictions restrictions can be helpful is complicated of writing yeah it can be helpful or it can be destructive like well the good example i think we talked about a lot venom must be in spider-man 3 right like if that that's your requirement and then you also decide that you also want to keep sandman and green goblin purse as the director it's like oh how much of that is your fault than then for the outcome and then you know someone might be like well you should have gotten rid of of us no you shouldn't have made him do venom it's like well you shouldn't have done sandman i don't know like i'm paying for the movie you know yeah whose fault it is is an explanation not an excuse yes so i feel like around like for the past many years the sentiment was the more control and the more the writer director role is respected the more better like better stories we'll get i think now it's like oh [ __ ] i don't know i don't know it seems to be a bit of a perfect storm you really need talent you need to work really hard and the one thing that we'll come back to every time is make it make sense please just make it make sense like you appeal to that fundamental you're probably gonna be steered in the right direction relatively i swear you won't end up with the chair in the room story you won't you you can get some really interesting things happening when you make stuff make sense um whether you're a committee or a writer director or two people or ten people whatever just try and focus on making everything streamlined making sense running cause and effect yeah you know you said this video is only 13 minutes we'll probably get through it fairly quickly and here we are three seconds in just well it was a quote you could dig for a while let's see how he's got visuals coming rags it's gonna be so epic check it out i like textuals for us it's like a remember remember remember you're like yeah i remember all the scenes oh my goodness i remember the bat dream i think it was a dream all right the bat time dream because it's not complicated enough it's like we need to confuse the audience more i wish that he uh included the shot of the granny's pht in this oh yeah it's one of the the greatest cinematic achievements i like it too emblematic of the film all right part one setting the scene i wonder if the use of time was deliberate it's a very high it's a very high well you know times new roman is like the proper font that's what you mentioned yeah there was a glorious beginning to a video essay though what is it like oh [ __ ] here we go because i could only imagine they'd bring this up to keep certain things out of this category right he's going to try and prop up bvs and throw other things down he's like oh here we go let's go this way i'm probably going to be really disappointed with his definition i don't even talked about this recently but um yeah um however maybe it's best for this if we let him give his first oh sure i'm gonna say what's wrong with it yeah i'm yeah because i'm very like i'm not committed to anything with the tmr i try to avoid using it just because it's uh it becomes very gatekeeping for a lot of people i'm just like okay i'm just talking about this movie then you guys do the the thing um but yeah like if we get to i'm assuming he's gonna use the words genuine true actual stuff like that just just letting us sit here without you know his art how should we as a modern audience approach the genre of film um how should filmmakers go about creating workfield a film it's not a genre how should filmmakers create art oh i'm ready for that one i don't know right like that one of the things that's often levied at a fat busy idea they're just like imposing a lot of restrictions on writers but like i don't think any of us would say that there is a way that you should create art i think we have found the fewest restrictions that can allow the most freedom while also being something that can be applied consistently i don't know that any other system than the one we use has those attributes if you hear us say it should make sense as a horrible limitation i i don't know what to say man like i don't think that's a huge limitation to say that it should just make sense i think that's a pretty decent uh low bar in a lot of the conversations that i have when people are so i actually used the meth bear analogy with someone at work the other day and um he was like well but if you piss off the meth there and force it to chase you back to the campsite that's more interesting than you just simply turning around quietly and getting gun and killing the meth bear i'm like okay so you lack imagination you can have it where you're trying to sneak away you're trying to do the smart thing and i don't know because you're in a forest you step on a on a branch yep creates a loud sound and the bear is alerted to your location and now there's a chase scene simple you get your payoff of the meth bear chasing the guy as he hurries over to his campsite to grab his meth bear killing 50 caliber sniper rifle um and the guy is still acting as competently as he can hey it's our fiction make it 5 000 caliber yeah absolutely we'll do that too um yeah that's funny to me because if your if your story is just the guy gets a milkshake and comes home i'd be like you might want to spice that up a bit maybe add some tension as i was like well it makes sense doesn't it mr e fat mr objective isn't it perfect as it is i'd be like all right someone out there might enjoy the milkshake story i just i'm i'm bored that's kind of the whole point of us talking about what the variables are the multipliers because yeah you go what if there's a dragon in that milkshake store it's like okay this is gonna get real complicated real fast like where did the dragon come from what does it have to do with this guy what's he gonna do is he's gonna kill him like that like is this a fantasy world it's like okay remove the dragon all those variables are gone back down to just the ghosts the shop picks up a milkshake it's like oh that's much easier but it's so much bull okay guy is a diabetic and has uh his blood sugar is running low and there's a ton of obstacles in the way of him getting his milkshake and we've become really invested in him getting his milkshake at the end of the day that's the thing make i think any story interesting because interesting is quite a um a trait that's you know you can appeal to it in so many different ways uh anyway what should film why how should filmmakers create ah that's just yeah give it to us i'm excited it's difficult to consider the genre of film a form of art when it's married to an industry that couldn't care less about the artists don't agree no couldn't care less like nah yeah yeah i don't agree with that at all i think uh maybe two it's detrimental sometimes yeah we have wonder woman 84. i don't know i don't think that in the 21st century there is any contention that filmmaking is a is an art form i think that um what's been going through the like that sort of growing pains recently has been video games um that's more uh contentious with some people like roger ebert believe that video games aren't but he was wrong i know he was wrong that's the idea is but like roger ebert would never say he wouldn't be caught dead saying that um filmmaking isn't art no uh like of any type yeah i i i guess i'm more interested as well in the idea that like there's a problem of valuing the artist as is understood by the industry because a lot of the time you know you're just a producer sitting in your room you're like oh this uh this force awakens film that made loads of money who's the guy who made that like jj abrams like what an incredible artist let's get him more stuff more money and and it'd be like in a sense they value the artist in that whatever pleases the crowd the most which by the way is a metric for uh some people use for how good a piece of art is it's how many people and how happy they were and so it really we're gonna have to get into so many definitions but like as far as i'm concerned this um is a problem now in the it's like i feel like there's more awareness of the writers and directors now than there was even 10 years ago for a lot of people it's like most people knew tarantino's feel big and and lots of other names but now loads of names we're hyper aware and i think we've talked about it before but whenever there's a new project it's like well who's making it like i don't really care like the project name or who's gonna be in it i'm like who's writing it and who's directing it yeah like i would be excited for a sequel to into the spider-verse but that's being written by the guy that did wonder woman 84. yeah like phil lordin and christopher miller like whatever they're working on is something i'm going to be interested in yeah because the reverse example is um oh you guys want to go see lego movie like not really it's like well it's made by those uh creatives who are behind this you're like oh yeah i guess yeah okay i wasn't interested in the jump street movies until i found that lord miller were involved yeah it's uh i would argue there is actually more of a focus on the artist in the film industry now but it's getting a little bit corrupted in terms of a producer only sees dollars um but then you also have the whole like you know what happened with um it's called fantastic four i guess with uh ant-man to a degree and some other ones with hire people who are known for making really good indie films that make loads of money or just successful movies where they're the right director they bring them on and then they crush their freedoms like you have to argue at some point oh well they value the artist in some way or shape or form there they just thought that they had the better idea on what should be done because i find it interesting right our idea work the the idea that they don't value the artist when their whole goal is like well we want to find the best artist to make us the most money you know so technically speaking they do value the the getting the artist the the best yeah i i'm not going to be too broad but you know i'm sure there's a lot of uh this guy i think snyder's a great artist he's got given full freedom on now three major movies that cost over like 200 million each it's insane terrible well um and like what reason do you think warner brothers had for hiring joss whedon after zach sanders stepped down the avengers and age of ultron precisely yeah well especially the avengers yeah so yeah i don't know i don't i don't agree fully i think there's problems in how the artist relates to the industry and film and hollywood and stuff but the idea that they couldn't care less about them nah that's way too cynical for me and i'm pretty cynical there's a reason they don't pick up people off the street yeah constantly fed pieces of amusement and propaganda that has with fed pieces of amusement and propaganda used to promote or publicize a particular political cause basically a lot of art could be if you're going to use that definition of pro especially the biased and misleading nature that's probably the most important attribute because like you have the stories want to promote highlighted the wrong section of that definition yeah he'd have to prove this as well with whatever examples because i might be willing to agree on some but certainly i have a feeling not all um also the state of experience of finding something funny or enjoying so he's saying like um sonic has provides entertainment you know like batman and robin he'd be like that's not art that's simply amusement i'd be like okay gatekeeper stop stop please yeah yeah it brings me to the great merriment and if someone was like yeah but it's not art right i'd be like ugh why do you oh yes it is why do i the bat nipples are art fight me yeah it was white oh speaking of which i think that um it's quite likely that george clooney's batman is the only live-action batman that hasn't killed anyone [Music] you sure i need to watch battle royale without the cover michael keaton in the first movie drops a bomb that kills like a dozen people he kills the joker he kills at least two guys and batman returns like grins sadistically before kicking him down the hole so he blows himself up you know lights a dude on fire with the afterburner on the batmobile and then val kilmer kills two-face basically and then well he kills uh someone else in that movie at a different point because i had that argument on twitter with uh someone they were like he didn't kill two-face because two-face fell off for his own clubsidus unironically they said the plan was to throw the coins and to make him drop all of the coins thus not being able to flip the coin thus he can't shoot anyone okay so then why didn't he try to save two-face while he was falling to his death do it well yeah batman anybody was acting in good faith watching that scene batman was happy to let him die he was like yeah [ __ ] you you're dead um but someone already highlighted that he kills someone else at one point in that movie like thug wise also two-face shoots people without flipping the coin in that movie so also two-face flips the coin repeatedly until he gets the desire that have a 50 chance of igniting two yeah two faces full of [ __ ] in that movie he keeps flipping until he gets the the outcome he wants it's not yeah he has other people load his magazines half and half with blanks and real bullets one of his lackeys but he says don't tell me don't tell me i just want to highlight if people want to use adaptation arguments regarding batman killing i mean well we should all aim for batman and robin's excellence i would say again it is the most enjoyable batman movie i've ever seen i love it it's too good i want them to bring back on he is mr freeze in something he deserves it oh i was going to say this earlier and got cut off but why do i get the feeling that this video is going to assert that everyone that's uh criticizing this movie for being too like uh needlessly grim dark they're just too stupid to understand the really deep themes and substance of bad movie superman it's so great because we've done the twin perfect thing you guys i'm referring to chat have seen what happens when they are faced with the idea that their themes are shat on by their own content they don't know what to do is cognitive dissonance they explode they don't realize it's crazy that there's a difference between executing it well and not even though that concepts like in their brain they've not addressed it they're just like what no bvs did it right it's like oh what about this like excluding that excluding that beautiful or true how can we call a film good zack snyder's justice league is just over the horizon and i could not be more excited unfortunately sorry oh what what well it's because the pause button is so [ __ ] yeah i told you no i i i believe and agree the only problem ever comes up is if we don't know where we were but we do know where we were batman face not even a minute in uh a lot of people are very excited for this snyder cut we are to a degree i know our fans are not listen i said to a degree it could be 0.0001 percent excitement um i'm excited to get it over with yeah i mean i'm just super curious through the roof curious i don't know what's gonna happen um as for you know we now know why this video was made uh he's a big fan of uvs and snyder's stuff and he just wants to give it a fair shake i guess let's have a look-see it's nice to see people all over the world united over this and it has certainly been my pleasure united united no i think that we have a very different definition of what united means if by united you mean horrifically shattered opinion-wise i agree we're united i was going to say i thought that everyone accepted this it's not a united at all it's that there's a significant amount of people supporting it and then people deriding it for being like embarrassing and stupid i mean just the joker jesus image alone the reaction to that like you see all the people mocking that uh that promotional image i assume my timeline's biased but uh i've seen more mocking than like oh my god so excited i've seen exciting posts but i've mainly seen mocking posts i mean like okay so cosmonauts got this huge fan base and he mentioned like this movie is going to make him rich like he's expecting to [ __ ] on it he's right well i mean we're expecting to show on it but i've never that's never been a component of like wow you're so unfair it's like well no if it's good i'll always refer back to the batwoman episode where they had a good scene and we were all blown away by the good scene because we're all waiting but we have to absorb wonder woman 1984 yeah yeah we had the same thing um i like like snyder cut could be good i just have no reason to expect that whatsoever in fact i'm hoping for the opposite at this point because i get a lot of amusement from zack snyder films they're very funny there you go you just you just admitted to being biased and wanting the movie to be bad well i'm hoping for a good experience i can get that from either being hilariously stupid or i just hope it's funny bad yeah but you know because it ain't gonna be good i just want its badness to be funny oh look at this this looks cool you got he's his eyes right this isn't that scary that's pretty yeah that is spooky oh you know we have the capital o opinions eyes oh yeah he's not here he couldn't make it i'm afraid um but uh he'll be back for the inevitable next thing that we do in this arc whatever it be he'll be back to play a small rat in preparation for the film i thought it would be a good idea to talk about its predecessor personally one of my favorite movies of all time oh boy that's the damning indictment of yourself justice oh damning indictment of yourself oh it's such a strange feeling though right because like we're in an environment where it's just like bvs is a clown movie but there are people out there who like this is one of the greatest pieces of art ever made like oh my god god batman v superman is a beautiful and unique experience it really this really reminds me of like the arc that the prequels went through where um they came out and uh correct me if i'm wrong but there were a number of people that were critical of them even as they were coming out um especially like ot fans of course like when people first saw the phantom menace they were hyped they had never thought they'd see the bad star wars movie before then attack the clones came out people were critical revenge of the set came out and like you know that was well liked enough but everyone acknowledged that they weren't as good as the original trilogy and then the blanket videos came out and everyone agreed yeah they were really really [ __ ] and then there's been this kind of redemption arc they've been going through because of the sequel trilogy and like you know maybe we were too hard on the prequels and yeah exactly i mean yeah there's worse there's worse than everything oh my gosh mosquitoes [Music] uh i think that's definitely an element of big ass mosquitoes over there i think that there is an element of like counter culture that is informing this because i like that's why people do it but i have an additional suggestion to that one uh free i think we talked about it before but the concept of like a room full of all the people talking about this movie reduced down to 100 and then over time the people who don't like it exit that room because they want to talk about other [ __ ] the people who love it stay in that room forever they're like no this is one of the greatest things ever it's so [ __ ] and over time that ratio of people who were talking about how bad it was and people talking about good it was changes over to favor the good and i think the same happened with the prequels because most people have moved away then we are one of many different types of people who come into that room like yeah let's check it out like oh this is horrible and all the people in the room like hey no no no yeah and then we we encouraged some of the people who left years ago to come back in the room and be like no it is though it is horrible like come on yeah uh right now snyder movies are going through this re-examination and you know what they like to do like you know people have been too harsh they didn't understand it and here we go i'm going to break it down in 10 minutes why it's the greatest piece of art in the history of the when he's like okay well we'll be here i don't know if this is go ahead i was just because they will have an exhaustive like 20-hour sequence for both man of steel and bvs going through every single problem and then we talk to a creator that's considered one of the top in terms of defending or explaining the zack snyder movies and he fumbles to even explain like what writing should be at all and how death of the authors of stupid concept is it's like this is the next level yes or no do you guys watch let me well i wish we did i guess that conversation may have gone better no yeah but um youtube is now going to start deducting u.s taxes from creators who do not live in the us that yeah you just need to submit your tax info on adsense and then they won't take the money most countries have uh tax treaties with the united states so with those tax treaties you can either reduce or just outright zero out any tax that the us takes and then just pay tax where you are okay so it's pretty pretty straightforward i'm seeing people on twitter they're like they take you know like oh taking my money like why should i pay tax in the us it's like it's not that you should it's a us-based company so they have tax obligations in the united states like it's not that complicated it doesn't matter if you live in in like i don't know argentina or something oh whatever total side side for modern audiences and was certainly ahead of its time oh by the way he called it beautiful it's not it's one of the ugliest films i've ever [ __ ] seen it's like a man of steel it makes me sick when i watch it so what's interesting to me is that uh saying describing a movie is beautiful and unique it'd be like oh you could be talking about all movies i'll just wait because the qualifier is that you thought it was beautiful and you found it to be unique each meconium is beautiful and unique there let's just hope he says something more specific so why does it get so much hate because oh [ __ ] you're in luck we've got loads of coverage on why we we have no lives you see so we talk extensively about why these movies are horrifically bad i wish these movies were made by a committee yeah the main reason would be absolutely incompetent like this is an umbrella tip like so much mechanically falls the [ __ ] apart and i don't care what he's referencing philosophically i couldn't care any [ __ ] less it doesn't matter uh pretentious bites off more than it can chew um it assumes that it's smarter than it really is you have a plot that's run on um a character crafting this impossibly ridiculous plan that can only work if everyone's an idiot and luckily for him everyone is an idiot um you have main characters uh night like neither are the main characters batman and superman are likable in this um uh unfortunately but again like it's got references to things and so i'm just curious if we could take any bad movie he hates and just apply some uh well anything right like i'm just summing up i'm just summing up why it gets so much hate there's a lot of reasons to hate this movie the thing is everything you said doesn't address like the great deep the philosophical lens that this film is is forcing its viewers to see the world through and so he's probably going to assume you've missed the point of course we always missed the point i mean it was it was it was said to us in person it's like don't you understand the point of the scene and you're like oh all right in order to understand why this film seems to be universally hated i believe that a close examination of the context in which it exists is an order i'm sure the context yeah the context will definitely turn this into a quality film the year is 2016. out of context marvel movies are at the peak of their popularity when some is that popular i don't think so end game yeah end game was definitely the peak for now someone spoke of superhero movies images of iron man captain america and thor were in everyone's hearts and minds sure the dark knight was considered to be a good film but also a relatively safe one man of steel safe no no the darth vader was pretty groundbreaking in how mature it was for a superhero film i don't like the way it's safe i need to know specifically what he's referring to because a lot of people like to refer to as like a gamble so you don't know that the audience will receive the thing well depending on what you do and then a lot of people use that as an excuse for films to do [ __ ] they're like oh yeah it wasn't a safe film it went places you know it took risks and you're like ah don't use the took risks excuse please the dark knight is often attributed to the trend of superhero films getting darker and more mature quote unquote was um when did the watchmen come out 2009. about the the book right the comic book no no the film because that's another one you could argue added to that right from zach yeah but it's an adaptation of a very mature comic book um but it being viable is what would be encouraging people to be like oh we can do this i suppose because the killing joke came out before the dark knight did and i mean yeah that was uh attributed to comics becoming more more mature and gritty um yeah i don't know i don't like the whole safe con like if someone said like yeah of course you know x movie in the mcu did well it's safe what does that mean you like um i i remember when like when rachel got killed in that movie and i was at first i was like holy [ __ ] they really went there yeah yeah they killed off batman's love interest uh you know what's funny uh i would i think uh rags you initially said this about one division's last episode or at least as it went on it became more of a um like the marvel sludge yeah it became marvel sludge the funny thing about that i guess now is that that might be what is considered safe when like everyone hates it everyone's like boo we don't like the marble sludge right now like give us something better you know what i'm saying is like safe is a very concept that keeps changing right i i wouldn't say that everyone hates one division i mean there's a lot of people that liked that horrible [ __ ] finale which i think is the worst thing that the mcu has made sure but like the ire i've seen for that episode outweighs most of what marvel usually gets um in releases at least on social media like i don't i'm sure the general audience has loved it you know maybe they still do love the marvel sludge that when the first few episodes were coming out people were complaining it's boring and then they're probably evil yeah they literally they were they were literally promising don't worry like later on there's going to be more of that standard marvel action that you've come to expect from us i'm like oh no and that's the thing they didn't do that in response to people complaining because it was already done it's just the sad fact of like yeah they break out of their shell briefly and then it's like go back in i want the sludge give me oh yeah i know like it's obviously not reacting to the people complaining it's just that the fact that um they know that what people want is the marvel sludge and so if if we agree that that's what safe is um i would say that ant-man and the wasp type movies apply i don't think civil war does um but the thing is like everyone's going to be different on that i suppose like what counts as marvel sludge because the requirement for me is usually that it is pretty much substance-less just like it's just [ __ ] just to allow yes to your typical payoffs to happen be they action or character going you know what i've learned something today it's that you shouldn't be mean but everyone has a different uh category for what safe is so i suppose we'll find out what his is deal had been released and was widely considered to be a failure despite loyal fans of superman and the overall dc universe vouching for it i don't know fans vouching for it that's interesting well like so kind of by definition yeah i mean if you're a loyal fan you will vouch for it loyal fans of anything will vouch for it um so that doesn't mean anything and i'm just if you really like man of steel and you think it's good i just i i have issues with your ability to assess quality in media yeah so yeah your opinion doesn't mean that much to me steel in many ways was a prelude to the controversy that awaited its infamous sequel at this point in time there was a formula for these action films and marvel studios had perfected it well oh god now i look foolish i don't know about you yeah i know right uh it happens all the time but um but yeah i i ain't gonna say that the marvel films said uh the marvel films had perfected it no no this one that was when iron man 3 and 4-2 came out yeah this this i guess is where we're at with this conversation part two so this marvel sludge we're talking about thor 2 and iron man 3 are not the same marvel sludge for me thor two is totally what i would consider marvel sludge but iman three is a [ __ ] annoying terrible movie made by somebody who had their own vision on screen it's like a ryan johnson type of deal if someone was like oh well it's still marvel sludge though i'd be like i don't know i don't know that i consider that way i don't consider it like a bland sequence that gets you to all of the payoffs that are in an mcu movie on average it does a lot of weird things and it does them really poorly um this whole formula thing like i don't even understand that anyone could agree with this from like a more in-depth look because i am one's beloved iron man 2 shat on quite a bit um thor is liked captain america's really liked and then incredible hulk like nobody likes to the point they might even forget it it's like this seems like a completely different set of things you know you know what i mean like like our formula like i don't know it's all over the place isn't it this is why like the conversation gets weird about this but i can you can see where he's going the the zack snyder is going to be against that formula and that's why audiences are having trouble with this audiences are so used to this sludge that awaited its infamous sequel at this point in time there was a formula for these action films and marvel studios had perfected it nope write a mediocre safe story the avengers i am not mediocre iron man's not mediocre i need some i need some definitions i would say the avengers is the least mediocre out of uh the first phase the thing is people look back on it and they might say that compared to maybe like the more complex i need to know what they mean by mediocre do they mean simple do they mean retreaded do they mean low stakes what are we saying i don't know what mediocre means imagine in this conference standing on your hill that you are dying on about bvs being great and calling something else mediocre well yeah this is the thing i think there are contexts that we might be able to agree certain elements or something about avengers is mediocre a lot of people like to go for the lighting which i don't uh take issue necessarily with a little flap sure but uh the the idea you prop up bvs like all right so now i'm confused i just need to know what the scale is but sure mediocre at least it's safe as well is there something wrong with doing safe stories is it not artistic to do that and what does it say a safe story is what an artist wants to do what if that vision is just a safe vision it's it's not not every idea has to be groundbreaking and risky is wally not safe what is uh what is the original star wars if it's not safe i don't know this is the thing i'm confused because if he was here i'd be like so how do you define a safe piece of artwork like farm boy saves the princess and blows up the the big bad space station like that's a really safe crowd-pleasing story there's a reason why and it's everyone fell in love with it yeah it's a cornerstone of media like that movie so to be like star wars safe when it came out we'll see that's the thing is is this something that evolves over time in which case you have to look at advantages in relation to everything that came out around it probably because when my parents talk about when star wars first came out it was they they've never seen anything like it before it blew them away it was surreal so well like i'm talking about the story if we strictly talk about the writing beats i think it would have to qualify as safe in terms of it's very standard it's a very arched like archetypical um fairy tale it's just set in space yes like that's kind of where i'm going with this i don't see why safe is if that's what safe is why is safe bat is the mona lisa safe i don't know i mean it's pretty secure at the louvre so i'd say it's safe to me it comes across as pretentious you're like look at you with your safe art what does that mean what are you suggesting i don't look into the edgy stuff enough because if he's saying zach is edgy you know what i'm not gonna disagree on that one shell out dollars to make the movie gear up for the next one marvel state that's what batman batman v superman was that was this is what the dceu's this is why the context is strange to me it's like you you do get like the dcu they spend hundreds of millions to make hundreds of millions that's what it is if you want me to admit that by the mcu it's like well the dcu totally counts for that too um like age of ultron did this tasm 2 did this um bvs did this if they were like waiting don't think civil war was made to make loads of money i'd be like well of course i don't see why that would stop it from having a good story though yeah i don't know why bringing all this [ __ ] up like oh look at the soulless buddy projects bottle with your safe stories just to make the movie gear for the next one marvel stayed at least five steps ahead from the movie he was working on you say it was five steps ahead it just it's just steps ahead it was the most normal start ever we want to make a team of heroes we give them each a movie and then we make the team movie yeah five steps ahead it seemed like yeah like it just seems like an idea that makes sense to me i think everybody was too risky with that well you probably meant in the fact that like they started a lot earlier so they had a lot more time to do this rather than so dc makes their first movie after marvel's already done their first big team-up movie the funny thing about that i think russia is the avengers came out in 2012 right um yes for 2021 now we could have had the thanos equivalent end game movie for the dcu at this point uh had they done it all reasonably instead of [ __ ] around like you get uh better go ahead like so you win on 2013 even your batman and superman movies can come out next year the next two wonder woman aquaman something like that then their team-up movie the year after then all of their sequel movies in the following few years and then uh you know you you can cram it to a point where it would it would probably function and batman and superman should sell themselves as long as you've got people writing good stories you'll be fine i think they didn't have to play catch up is what i was saying yeah because time wise it would be perfect for them now to put out their biggest movie well marvel is like i know resting i guess uh yeah reassessing their things like oh look now these it's dc's turn no we can do our finish for all the things that's probably part of the point of doing snyder cut now because it's uh it's something they don't have to release in cinemas anyway they can get a lot of testing on it and there's no marvel properties to really compete with it necessarily if you can well the vicious is funny soldier i think comes out the day after yeah there you go um sorry i promise their characters are still [ __ ] so well absolutely uh their writing is so bad that's what just never carries them and i just think it's it's amusing because like the general audience is like this is the thing if you ask the average person i'm not even sure they know if you went oh my god i can't wait for the martian manhunter movie and then they're like oh is that like you teaming up with iron man at any point and you're like no you're like oh why is that like most people just i would argue that the mcu isn't even their um their enemy back in 2012 it should have been the we can ride off of their success because we'll be marketing in very similar ways let me level with you like honestly i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people thought aquaman was marvel yeah that wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people yeah people thinking about making money imagine they were successful they had their own version of avengers a few years after the actual avengers and then they strike a deal with the two companies to have a crossover multiverse fight between the like holy [ __ ] think of the dollars you silly company i want to see batman fight spider-man and the vanilla cut and dry and safe up until captain america civil war there hadn't deviation from this formula but that's interesting i mean were to say that civil war was the first deviation from the formula i don't know that that's what he's implying i think he's implying including civil war oh oh including someone it was after civil war that you got like thor ragnarok or something you sure like yeah let's see let's see what he says yeah we can't roll it back it was working on and the movies were all very vanilla cut and dry and safe up until captain america civil war there hadn't been much deviation from this up until captain america i don't know but remember civil war was language incorrectly anyway so like i'm not i'm still gonna take kids we need to play more of what he says is what i'm trying to say like past what he says here i want to see what he says about civil war okay but even civil war played it safe with its story all right no then he said he played it i was about to say yeah he just [ __ ] sake so he went from it was it was formulaic until civil war but even that was formulaic it's like ah yeah like i don't know what argument to argue against i was going to say well and too many people talk about the marvel formula without talking about the marvel formula you know everyone likes to label it it's like what do you mean when you say that because i know for a fact that you don't think iron man is as good as ant-man so what is this formula that you're talking about you mean the other way around you don't think ant-man is as good as iron man no either way wix all right yeah all right not allowing characters to suffer any of the consequences that the marketing suggested they would don't get me wrong i'm not here to condemn okay uh roadie's crippled um we'll wait needs half of our avengers are criminals the funny thing is i partially agree but it's not civil war's fault it's uh it's the other movies it came off civil war gave you yeah we just killed the build on yeah i mean look what what just happened with juan division like it's not it's that i guess whatever single blew it yeah yeah it's not infinity it's not infinity war's fault that basically everything that happened in that movie is being undone like what's next heimdall is going to get resurrected around hopefully you know robo heimdall because it's a movie yeah cause like the most you get is when tony is like we lost because of your [ __ ] up in civil war and for a moment in end game you're like oh but then it gets dropped after they have a chat quick and it's like okay all right that was like the best scene in that whole movie there's a timeline of the mcu that i want a movie for and i don't think we're ever going to get it where there's a team of avengers run by cap who are all vigilantes and there's a team of official ones that are endorsed by the government that would have been really cool really cool i wish they'd all made a movie for it and you could have a threat that they all have to deal with and and you know you have the horrible choices of like do we work with cap when you know just all these different questions that can come up infinity war just tickled with it played with it a little bit but uh we skipped over that timeline for the most part that's not civil war's fault civil war set you up and gave you all the consequences i hate when people say there's no consequences the [ __ ] avengers have been split in half half of them will be arrested if they're seen again how is there no consequence i think that it'd be kind of neat if they brought back chris evans this cap for a movie in between civil war and war go ahead and do it i'll i'll watch that movie i know someone might say like black widow but um i don't know that anybody is in black widow except for black widows so i think tony apparently robert downey jr is going to have a cameo in it yeah boy i'm worried i'm so worried when you're dead you could still be assassinated never forget it and yeah um a major consequence was supposed to be the the friendship between cap and i am i was supposed to be severed not to never be recovered but i mean what they did with it was [ __ ] uh no matter what could have been done and then um yeah like all these countries making it very clear to the superheroes of the world that we're not gonna [ __ ] tolerate this reckless defense anymore it's a major movie for the mcu it's just not its fault that nobody built on it and you could say like well it's the same makers as this like i don't care ridley scott made alien and prometheus shut up i mean i guess it kind of bolsters his point that the mcu likes to play it safe and that they uh radically alter the status quo at the ending of uh civil war and then just kind of ignore it in later movies as much as they can at least if he had said that i would have agreed but he said the civil war played it safe precisely so yeah in any of these movies but i think it has gotten to the point where people are mistaking escapism for genuinely good filmmaking escapism can be genuinely good filmmaking escapism is neutral to quality it's also yeah so easy to get like it can be applied to [ __ ] [ __ ] everything that's like even hobbies you can just escape for them and you know confusing escapism for good filmmaking boo i don't what can we just run into that does he think that lord of the rings is not uh good filmmaking well you might argue that it is both great escapism and good filmmaking again i'm just saying why can't we reflect this background with bvs like you're mistaking your escapism in bvs for good filmmaking uh raiders of the lost ark is escapism um minecraft is escapism uh what do you mentioned uh i saw recently yms apparently gave relatively low ratings to the original indiana jones trilogy and his fans were very upset low ratings i think because it's an action film i think he gave them like a four five and six or four six and five uh the three indiana jones films i think i i should re-watch them but i only remember enjoying them immensely i just remember there's loads to compliment about the execution in those films but you know the writing might not be as good as i remember i don't know um but i do know that i don't really mind him doing that but he uh he put out a tweet yeah pretty furious with his fans for ripping into him for a long time they had to delete a bunch of posts on his subreddit because everyone was very upset with him it's funny to me right because like these are the people who get [ __ ] pissed at us for saying that there's like a way to objectively do anything but at the same time they're like hey your subjective thing is wrong oh well i hope he's all right amusement for art amusement for art like do you think almost two things that sorry like what do you what does he think of charlie chaplin or uh buster keaton or indiana jones i mean that's meant to be a fun action adventure story but like writers of the lost ark anything you can come up with this is the problem he's the arbiter so he would if you said like what about star wars he goes that's art and amusement okay what about um you know and then name a film he doesn't like he goes oh that's amusement not uh that's just movement yeah this is always going to be the qualifier but they're all art if it's a movie it tells me it's as a work of art i know that it's not like you know high um high art i guess as some people say it's not you know i just top shelf stuff but i think people need to lose their um the iron grip on the word art it's okay for things to be considered art even if they're [ __ ] guys it's all right gonna be fine let them have the rumors yeah okay enter batman v superman enter batman v superman this is the one that's going to shake it all up this is the one that's going to show everyone what real art is this is our savior this is our jesus it's thematically appropriate oh no enter batman versus superman oh my god change the landscape prefer your anus the world was never the same the world is changing on its opening day audiences went to watch the quote-unquote superhero movie with high hopes it is a superhero movie what is a superhero because it's not a dumb superhero movie like all those other mediocre ones this to me is like someone being like you know [ __ ] kfc is so [ __ ] good they the people on the opening day of kfc they opened up their fast food and discovered that it was gourmet it was actually yeah okay that needs to be delved it's a superhero movie you don't need to uh i've already got so many goodell quotes already not fair it's rare that like we were already this far in um oh i'm struggling here this is like really it's you you've started this being like there's a quote in this that's so funny we have to hear it was that it i can't remember which one it was though been laughing too much on all of them so that this this video it wouldn't be anywhere near as funny if it were a parody like i love that someone made this on purpose like it's it's just wonderful it's like the room which is pretty cool right as a matter commentary considering the topic of this video something was wrong something didn't feel right something felt yeah the movie something felt broke was it the story you could say that you could say one or two things maybe it hasn't really changed since it came out okay is he gonna end up saying something like this is not a superhero movie with something else i don't know how but i think this is where the healing is i'm gonna say he's this is art yeah this isn't a superhero movie this is art and it's meant to challenge you or something all right my attention span it's gonna change the way you [ __ ] about superhero movies if you don't get it you missed the point people are afraid of the things they can't understand yeah danger present danger of breaking a well-known oh no no no no no no no it's not about breaking if you want to how do you explain thor ragnarok then sir how do you explain the dark knight that came out 2008. you can't simultaneously say like oh people love it if you break the formula they can do real well except this time they didn't like it because it broke the formula like it sounds like you need to do a little digging at this point what's funny to me is that i've never viewed them this way all of the films in the mcu in the dcu like oh do they follow the formula like it doesn't really come up i'm really just really digging into their stories and also like this movie batman v superman the last hour just completely deteriorates into like just non-stop also um regarding formulas uh doesn't that kind of depend on how many movies try to like basically tell the same kind of story the same story beats and everything like because uh iron man isn't accused of being formulaic because it was kind of like the first mcu movie to do the like what we now are familiar with like and consider the mcu formula like black panther and doctor strange and iron man are all very similar in plot beats but iron man doesn't get the criticism that dr strange and black panther receive for that because it was like a trailblazer it was groundbreaking in that sense sure at the same time so if you have a voice in the back of my head that's like could that be because also this [ __ ] though well it's like if you have multiple movies that are trying to be like batman v v superman which thank god we don't that would be a formula well i don't even i don't even think that there's they've made it clear that the there's some kind of significant formula break you know do you ever mean like when you watch batman v superman it's not like i'm thinking hey where's my you know and then formulaic it's not bad because of the formula yeah it's just stop focusing so much on the formula stop that yeah stop doing it you're misleading yourself everyone who didn't like it as people who love formulaic sludge like that'd be awesome right because that makes the movie look way better it's my sludge alone oftentimes formulas are uh are followed because it was like they were successful they were like they they were successful with like the audience and the box office and and with critics sometimes it's like there's a reason why uh there's storytelling conventions hence the confusion of like he surely agrees ragnarok breaks this formula so why was it successful if it broke the formula maybe the formula isn't the defining factor who knows there was a feeling of danger present danger of breaking a well-known formula poetry symbolism darker tones and themes poetry poetry poetry the red capes are coming wouldn't you feel a little embarrassed if your movie didn't do very well and many people didn't like it and then you saw the one guy defending it hardcore being like it's poetry you don't understand it i feel like there's symbolism in there i would almost want to be like okay well okay like i mean i tried to put some of that stuff in there but like you know it's fine that people don't like it dude you don't need to be like it's poetry you don't understand yeah i was like calm down i want a poetry risky story story beats and a somber mood a batman that kills a superman that dies but that's not new that's not new at all none of those things weren't showing up on screen guys man with the word dies over today this is this is just damaged it's it's about as subtle as a zack snyder movie oh yes um it's a music because uh as recently mentioned um almost like foreshadowing uh batman's been killing on screen for a while it's just the manner in which he does it i think is what viewers got upset by um for example if he's like punch and kapowing a villain and then uh like a henchman tries to stop him and he punches him and he goes whoa and falls off like a banister and you're like oh [ __ ] did he just is he dead oh the movie's moved on you know it's just like oh god i hope that i don't know if that guy lived through that oh well yeah i don't know this film was like look at this car we're gonna fill it with a hundred bullets and then blow it up it's like oh my god yeah they are very dead we want to make sure that you as the audience understand they are very dead there's a difference between batman's like punching a like a dude so hard that his that is what issue with prison overpopulation um yeah and what's interesting as well because i was thinking about a bit more he's shown to have um gun disabling technology i didn't want to describe it as like anything more specific because i don't know if it's like fictional whatever he attaches stuff to people's guns and they just stop working they look like magnetized miniature bombs yeah so that to me says oh you have ways of taking people down not lethally oh no you just choose not to and we never get to explore that with superman outside a batman outside of him saying like people don't stay good alfred criminals keep rising back up they're like weeds it's like oh these lights are so [ __ ] [Music] they're not it's odd shut up all right it's symbolic of how criminals are like weeds you're not paying attention superbad dies symbolically but not really that's actually a wilderness oh god again is the pretension not off the [ __ ] charts in this video like you know what else had a world that had hate in it [ __ ] citizen kane i like i also loved it years ago i also love his profile pictures black and white photo of himself uh aiming a camera standard standard pseudo uh wannabe filmmaker profile picture shot it's the one where you know that they they posed for it and but if someone were to take a photo of them while working i feel like they'd look at the camera go oh you caught me i'm just doing my job oh i was just i was just working on my batman for superman video i didn't see you there my goodness this is so candid always the cameras the formula had been broken was a darker film to be expected of course it was this is dc after all but this was too far i mean it was just bad people don't care if it has a dark tone remember the dark knight came out in 2008 and everybody loved it don't forget logan people [ __ ] adore logan it's logan says um before the events of logan the professor x killed a bunch of x-men by accident the x-men and let's not forget that batman begins came out you know a few years before the dark knight and people loved it they were like thank god batman's dark and grim and serious again this is better than batman and robin yeah you're confused you think something that is just so untrue quickly became one of the most hated directors of all time he's more of a clown to me i don't hate him [Music] there is a bit of a like a love in terms of like i adore seeing how you you decide to do things in your writing it's so crazy and funny um is there a director you guys hate yeah but hate no i think hate uh roman polanski oh they hate roman polanski obviously excluding i guess from their work not like from their work not from what they've done well that's the thing is if if you're just making well okay so like with child pornographers count i just hey hey that's hard what that's art we'll just talk about like you know look at a direct movie is i'm probably never going to hate a director for their uh their film because that's quite a thing you can't see just because i made a movie you didn't like and so scale has to alter and thus he must be referring to zack snyder is made fun of more than most directors i'd be like your god damn right he is yeah he deserves the rick it's what happens when you make stupid clown movies also he needs to shave his neck he doesn't need to shave his neck the dc extended universe died fall out water shake up exactly of course they did they saw the movie it only took two it only took two months before they were like oh [ __ ] wait it's also it's also worth pointing out may 17 2016 this article was written before the ultimate edition was even shown and the theatrical cut was even worse than the olsen edition what i understand yeah and uh you have to take into account again this comes back to the whole artist thing one brother's looking at the money and then the critical reception they don't know what art is they're just like oh god people hate this ah we need to get rid of it they make rash decisions all the [ __ ] time look at uh well you know what's funny look at the dc eu look at suicide squad look at justice league that's entire thing and look at zack snyder's justice league as well potentially abandon ship and that breaks my heart i i can really tell by the way you delivered [Music] oh that delivery was harder than amber hurt's delivery in aquaman that's because his heart's broken it's like high top we said far from home broke him oh so sad sick of people his heart is what that took from him no his soul superman my soul is broken you're a monster snyder evan has to stop schneider before he makes even more movies snyder though well it's quite an epic video isn't it oh it's very epic his soundtrack is very he knows exactly what he's going for he's definitely style over substance i am going to say i'm quite happy that this section has come up part two of misunderstanding because i was going to say there's lots of things that he's [ __ ] up on so far so i'm assuming he's about to correct them all right this is his correction section definitely thank you he's about to say like so all of that is [ __ ] that would be so funny [Applause] how come you give us that long to read though that and you gave us two seconds to read the zac schneiderlin yeah what the [ __ ] also i'm gonna have to upload a couple times at this point there's no way i'm not getting hit because the soundtrack oh you're going to make me not like it stop yeah stop batman v superman is a modern masterpiece of faith hey you can't be surprised the name of the video is a modded masterpiece not yeah parasite i actually don't know the lighthouse not the revenant oh god not only is this an absolutely gorgeous work but it delivers to us listening to just a message that shouldn't be forgotten it delivers a message of work oh what is he going to say the messages should we guess um because i haven't seen this far anymore i don't understand that that could be it actually um oh if i was gonna uh if i was gonna guess what he's gonna say the message of the film is huh shouldn't superman be like should he be able to pull that with like the traction that he has i oh you mean like he just flying across the yeah yeah his his feet would just go through the ice whenever he tries to push forwards the ice isn't strong enough to sure he should be flying as he pulls it i guess yeah you'd think yeah what if he's actually just sort of using his flying abilities to uh slightly defy gravity so that he doesn't break the ice all right he just wants to look dramatic as he walks forward with this still he's still making some indents in that land but yeah just a little bit yeah he can he's yeah half an inch of uh foot indent and remember it's all breaking back there so it's not too like and it's on its side as well so he's like dragging that thing yeah the hall isn't even yeah on the ice i hope they're okay uh yeah with that [ __ ] do you think that ship would be heavier than the building that he lifts easily with the in justice league that ship is definitely lighter yeah i wouldn't want to guess i don't know how far back does the ship go yeah that's another good point yeah but i mean what if it was like a 100 year old ship why is he cara like why is he okay because it belongs in a museum i like the fact that he's gonna use the shot of the batmobile absolutely [ __ ] over some dude yeah well no he said before this is a film where batman kills and that's means something i don't know what but it means something all right yeah i reiterate its listeners it's quite fascinating to listen to the criticisms of this film as poor of a reputation as it has the majority of the film's critiques are a result of misunderstanding oh of course they are oh you don't yeah remember we don't like what we don't understand exhibit a people don't understand that it's not a flaw that superman drags his enemies into space and boops them away example of how this is true a nuke stops him so he shouldn't have and we bring the guy down and say why didn't he try again and it's like it doesn't matter that's not the point you can't do this all right you have to own the position of mechanically it might be nonsense but that's fine because it's making a point if that was your video in total i'd be like well at least you can stick to that position i guess but you can't say yeah oh you're wrong on these mechanics you don't understand them and then have nothing when people ask you simple questions it's [ __ ] annoying and so the critiques are exactly in line with the film's message batman shouldn't be killing that's the point that's the point what we got it i i don't know why i never said that batman shouldn't kill yeah i don't even think that's that's not even something i hear often well so he's saying people are like boo the film's bad because batman's killing people and his counter is that's the point so we have to unravel a lot there in terms of like is it a flaw for us that he's killing people in the movies like not necessarily it's going to be dependent on the individual kills and his choices he has and then his characterization it's going to be annoying if he uh he's letting characters like the joker and harley quinn when when they were directly responsible for um for robin's death um that's a bit weird if he has no issue with killing mooks so yeah because our list of issues of the film batman killing people i don't even know if it's on the list it would have to be more specific than that yeah superman will be more hopeful and confident correct why isn't he um because it's because zack snyder has a really weird vision of what this character is he doesn't behave as though he's lived a full life on earth loving parents with a society because it's sorry in some way yeah instead he's depressed all the time but it's really frustrating depending on how the next with his commentary starts i'm going to be very uh i'm going to find his music choice here very questionable let's let's see what he says i'm not going to go through every single critique and explain exactly why it's wrong because i truly believe that the film needs while you're making a video it's just damn i was kind of looking forwards to that just well it's actually enough i'm deciding to convince every single one of you that just misunderstanding but i'm not going to explain everything because why wouldn't it's weird because that's kind of my strategy with mando is like i'm gonna explain everything same for me the boys let me tell you all of the arguments for this [ __ ] um yeah i assume it's more so to make a uh a video under a certain amount of time but what i was gonna say was that it's interesting that i can't even write that down for goodell because it's been written down three times already from other videos we've covered i'm not gonna go through all of the reasons you're like right okay why would you right if you want to convince someone of an argument you wouldn't go through all the reasoning you just use the trope correct why isn't he i'm not going to go through every single critique and explain exactly why it's wrong because i truly believe that the film needs no help in defending itself clearly you don't believe that you made this video he's gonna he's gonna let the movie speak for itself he needs help defending itself like stephen hawking needs help up the staircase like this is a really this film needs all the help it could get if someone said to me like why are you making the boys video surely it's self-evident how bad it is like it's not a lot of people don't really watch it that way this is just uh educate yourself anybody who watches a film film doesn't need any defense any anybody watches the film twice is probably going to have much like more accurate things to say about it than the person who watched it once just categorically and so going from there yeah you can imagine what a stupid thing whatever they have done this excellently [Laughter] how [Music] he's showing two videos that we didn't cover lex luthor's plan explained i was gonna say we've seen the other two videos that i showed you guys a good portion of the the uh batman's motive explained one i think they're very all three of them are awful uh they were all yeah contenders for what we were going to cover and remember the old thing over there would be a surprise i i'm literally just joking the author said that like it's it's it's he doesn't care if the details are correct it's the overall point that matters it's like oh it's hilarious yeah that just kind of ruins that entire video with your whole video like that i've said it before and i'm still convinced he's probably a nice dude and you might enjoy his videos but like i don't know how i could stay subscribed to a creator that said like it doesn't matter if what i said was true i would just try to appeal to a point it's like wow or when he admitted that he was click baiting oh that wasn't a good idea either yeah that wasn't great if this is the if this video is supposed to be the go-to that's being propped up for why these films are actually not bad this film's in some [ __ ] trouble just twin perfect texts i would highly recommend checking out their videos deserves respect oh no all right videos if you want an official see this is what's happening all this left is the people who love the movie so they're just making all these even even all these the thumbnails for the movie are just [ __ ] depressing and try hard oh yeah an edgy special report but i'm not here to explain why remember when he left his calling of course it's really dumb it's fine mnb superman isn't a bad movement i'm here to explain why i believe batman be super so i really think that this uh this is a very overbearing fast-paced music that does not fit at all with his commentary well when you have combined with i think the movie is i think it's pretty good what's up [ __ ] we're talking about it this music fits more if you're actually like listing off like if i were to critique this this movie if i were to make a like a video critiquing this movie i would be using this type of music in the background as i'm listing through a number of reasons with any given plot element like why lex luthor's plan makes no sense and you know what i mean it's like a high pace you want you want things getting delivered when you're talking about a fight scene yeah oh you're getting he's trying to be more con yeah he's trying to be more contemplative and pretentious and this just this this track just doesn't fit with it oh yeah i think he's just thrown it on and it's like yeah that's good enough it's good it's good soundtracks that's fine but i'm not here to explain my batman v superman isn't about like i can barely hear what he's saying yeah yeah like the smart move bad movement i'm here to explain why i believe batman v superman is a good film all right and you're gonna do all right yeah so for the people at home he's just told you his his goal here is to explain why it's a good movie how much do you think we have left 60 of the movie left like damn dude you better hurry oh he's uh so dramatically drawing drawing out these uh chapter title reveals it like this just comes across as baby's first video essay to me well he's patting it right like on purpose he wants it to it certainly wants to be above 10 minutes i think i think the video essay gold is weird because he had that quote flash by so fast right off the bat a lot of like the reason i was going to chalk that up to he's not good at making videos a lot of the main shitty video essay people like the golden area is between 10 and 20 minutes it seems like that's what you want to do that's what you think you want to do if you watch them and want to emulate them when like the effects logic is it's as long as it has to be that's this is just yeah that's it it's gonna be as long uh well i forgot the words just forget i said anything as long as you're you require to explain your points zack snyder is often referred to as a visionary director oh he's so does that mean and what does that mean i agree stationary director what does that mean good question it's often referred to as you can't wait to find out director means someone who shows great imagination and vision thanks to the help of his director of photography he sure has a vision thanks thanks in part to his director of photography okay larry fong zack snyder crafted a unique and visually stunning image for this film the phrase every frame of painting is an appropriate one we did it you see this this moment where this is falling in slow-mo you could take a screenshot and it would be a painting that means it's a good film but you can take a screenshot of everything and make it a painting shut up you can't just take items around the house like soup cans and paint them and become famous no that would be no that would that would be dumb yeah no one would ever buy look to don just look at these frames why would you choose this one so yeah like it look if if this was supposed to be a particular frame that i'd want to put in a frame in my house right i'd be like hey you two guys back there could you could you move you're in the shot you guys are in the shot could you duck down a little bit yeah keep moving to the left all right you're good we'll let you know when we're done cheers i think there will be some of the sound guys got in the uh yeah i can't believe they got in the shot than this one how about how about how about the dark knight returns omar's shot that's a cool shot why this one man yeah why this one look at these friends the film speaks for itself you keep saying that but then you keep talking about you need to make a video explaining it no i i think i get it so you have the bland dryness of the shot matches the bland dryness of lois's character she is part of the scene she is part of the environment they meld together they mesh part of their shape yeah of course we've got we've got the rebar crucifix in the background also they're sad and it's cloudy which is very common let's see it oh look there's a little parting in the cloud as well isn't that neat i've never seen that in any movie ever wow look even the rebel is like a little cross the visionary cinematography isn't only about the look for anyone who's seen a michael bay film it's obvious that a film's look means nothing if it um it means nothing if it means nothing that's what he said wow thank you i don't really say that again are you sure isn't only about the look for anyone who's seen a michael bay film it's obvious that a film's look means nothing if it well means nothing that's a trouble good job i mean he must be aware of that why the [ __ ] did he say it yeah i i'm sure i guess he he's like if there's no real meaning or symbolism behind the cinematography then it's worthless dude doesn't mean anything i can't believe this video like there's so much about it i blame i blame all of the other video essays that are popular for this video that's why this one was made he thought this was a good idea why do i get the feeling that this guy watches brown table a lot i'm sure he hates people like this that sounds a lot like something that brown table would say yeah you should it's quite a task for the director and the dp to craft a meaningful painting for every single frame in a film [ __ ] you the room has a meaningful frame in every single part of the movie okay yeah put them all in a museum i i totally believe that absolutely tommy why so absolutely had a reason for everything he put in that movie it's so funny because he just treats it as though we all understand it's like well we all agree right bvs is just beautifully shot every single frame's a painting you're like um do you want to get into why or how for any of that are we just going to say that it's true i would love some qualification mauler wake me when we get some ideally there should be a story told through each one ugh ideally it goes unnoticed just how much detail and passion snyder puts into every single one of his shots every single one um right everyone every single one i mean i i won't deny that he there's passion but you know who else had passion hitler there we did it we did it everyone we [ __ ] did it okay i just want to highlight something really funny i found in this description for this video no zack snyder's justice league is among us doesn't he meet upon us no i think he was very deliberate with his bad choices it's among us what the [ __ ] it's it's just like no no no no i think what he's doing here is just like how superman is supposed to be one of us and among us so too is the justice league it is among us superman suss well so unironically yes incredible uh um but he's kind of spent the last minute and a half saying the same thing the shots are really good because they're really good because they're so really [ __ ] good they're just so good they're so meaningful yeah how much detail and passion snyder puts into every single one of his shots his movies are full of symbolism references to classical pieces of art and literature and theological and philosophical images the theological philosophical imagery plus references to the comic books that means it's good imagery is not and like that's not uncommon in in cinema well what about choosing to do the background what about people who don't want to do the man made a t-pose like jesus he's like jesus just for instance right you have two directors one of them wants to film a scene one of them goes you know what i want to make a reference to this comic book this particular uh you know pain and uh i also want to have a biblical reference the other one's like i'm just gonna create shots that i think are meaningful in relation to the story as it stands and i'm gonna try and you know tell tell blah blah it's like which one of those two should be valued more i'm not saying there's an easy answer to this i'm just suggesting that like why is it that because someone took a shot from a comic book that's better than someone who made a shot on their own merit they just wanted to make the shot i would love explanations and qualifications for these things it's something that these videos are severely lacking for itself all right best you can try to educate yourself yeah yeah yeah that's just examples of like examples of uh literary references that these uh shots have literary references yeah precisely i would love it unless he's counting like does he count comic books as literature i wonder if he said literary because it makes you sound smarter to be like see it references books like i read books you know it's that kind of thing the chad literary this is the virgin book i don't really read books but i understand them which i think is a bit more important i think that they were known to reference them there are definitely some people who i'm not now this might not be the case with him i might be reading too much into it but there are a lot of people who attach an extreme amount of value to like i read like i am a reader you just watch movies i read the books you know it's kind of like the whole the movie's always worse than the book kind of crowd yeah um but when you say literary it's like oh boy now you're really amping it up like literary to the story he is telling one example is a rather obvious one lex luthor's painting of milton's paradise loss wow it's so subtle no please so subtle not only is this a neat reference but the story of paradise not a reference well at what point does it stop being a reference when they they're so explicit about it um if i like in a movie say you shall not pass are you coming to my house and opening the door and i go hi you shall not someone goes well that's a neat reference you're just like okay yeah i know that by rep by by pointing it out and recognizing it you know it loses its you know to me that's what we need to avoid celebrating because you end up with mandalorian yeah hey i'm referencing luke skywalker by having him show up as a character and doing things remember luke skywalker's green lightsaber guys that you do it's like this painting is a reference to the painting this is the thing and someone was like well then what are you supposed to do i should be like well i assume that the reason to put um third party references is that by looking into them they will give you an extra understanding of what the story you're conducting is which might be the way he'll qualify this i don't know but uh it's going to be impossible for something that's good to be able to help you understand something that's as [ __ ] as bvs like i'm assuming this painting is a hell of a lot more of a high quality in in its uh in its uh craft than bvs is as a movie but who knows mirrors lex luthor himself another more obscure that was it he said it mirrors like all over himself and then he just moved on really we have only 13 minutes we have no but the story of paradise lost perfectly mirrors the story of lex luthor himself how that's why so let's let's let's assume that's true let's assume that milton's paradise lost and lex luthor's character are mirrors of each other first off incredible indictment of milton we'll skip that secondly so that just means that snyder copied a book i am gonna buy paradise lost and read it at some point but uh i am very curious to see how true this is you know the whole world let me let me just read the synopsis of periods so paradise lost from what i've read is basically an epic poem that is about the god the story of the garden of eden like it that's basically the story it's about it's the temptation of adam and eve by the fallen angel satan and their expulsion from the garden i guess his logic would be that like lex luthor is adam slash eve and that he was tempted by i i don't know like but he wasn't doing it for personal reasons no he wasn't doing it for personal gain seemingly originally at the beginning he was like he you would you would assume at the beginning this is why lex luthor's such a [ __ ] mess of a character that it's kind of tough because he's kind of he's he's all over the place he's very confusing and he's contradictory um but yeah i i do not at all believe that maybe that was the intention which i can believe because this is a zack snyder film however no [ __ ] way uh um no you know like the whole plato's republic thing from with man of steel and it's like yeah but you see we're doing the whole freedom of choice versus roles assigned to you and so that makes it better you're like wait what do you mean it's like well it's referencing plato's republic you're like okay okay that's like why do you put so much [ __ ] weight on this like he executed plato's republic horrifically in uh man of steel why why is it just good enough that he referenced it it should yeah it's um like is that is that the implication that like by the very fact that he even knows what plato's republic is and thought to reference it is better than civil war not referencing anything in particular and just like telling its own story yeah because it's not a smile yeah it should focus on it should focus on telling its own story and if it happens to mirror uh certain elements from a more classical story then it's like all right that's neat but that doesn't explain why the story that we're looking at here that is bvs actually stands well on its own yeah i think for me if i i felt they had executed really well in man of steel if i was to do a video analyzing it and there was a scene that on a bookshelf the camera pans by there's a plato's republic book on there i'd probably be like hey they even reference it because it's relevant in terms of well inspiration is the story but uh man of steel puts it in his [ __ ] hand when he's a kid it's like oh oh well i mean that's a clever example in our in in buffy uh one of the books that um that that is being read by angel i can't remember what the book is called what was do you remember what it was called um oh it was it's like the it's jean-paul it's just like his um ideas on uh is it absurdism in the response to it i forget i'd have to go into it more but yeah angel does a lot of reading in that but again he's um like over 300 years old and he like has a lot to contemplate about his position in the world he's not a high school like less than high schooler getting beaten up because he's reading players is so crunchy i was i was i was about to say something let's say [ __ ] it yeah like there's there's ways to do about this and really that are really interesting like um oh brother where art thou is uh a retelling of the odyssey kind of but it takes place in like the 20s and a lot of people wouldn't even know it if it didn't say like based on homer's the odyssey um so i'd like to rewatch that sometime but there are there are so much better ways to do this then see look our character is holding the book explicitly here so that you can see there is a painting on the wall that has angels and demons fighting each other and i'm going to turn it upside down oh this is the parademons they're coming from the sky devils come from the sky like superman the devil except wait no he's not the parademons of them and dark souls yeah it's a shame because it could be really great yeah that idea yeah like the you see the images in the background yeah the paintings in the background when we first see it it's not referenced at the end the place is trashed for whatever reason and it's falling on upside down or something like that in the background but it when you're so blatant about pointing it out and everything like that it just loses its yeah it's like when you it's like when you're uh when you're in school in your literary classes and you notice things before the teacher tells you about them and you're like oh see yes i'll be paying attention all right i'll be doing my readings yeah yeah it was uh la noisy i think is host pronounced um philosophical existentialism yeah i was saying before that there is pretentiousness sometimes when it comes to people reading but like there are some great posts that everybody should be reading i just think it's about the motivation to place it in and it really needs to not be i'm smart because i read this it needs to be this thing influenced me and i'd like to just have a reference it is relevant to the story that i'm trying to tell yeah that'd be nice because again we're giving points just for being referenced we're not giving points for how well it was executed it is yeah just having a reference to a book isn't enough well this goes to the core that this is why this guy likes twin perfect it doesn't matter what the execution was the idea oh that's new that's cool the idea was there so that's good enough polar opposite of what we do here like they're confused by the way we look at media we're like what do you mean the execution matters i can't just have a good idea and a theme and that's just it takes care of itself at that point why have the scenes just send me an email with you exactly send an email that's just here's my thoughts on x and then just you'd think like how how does this not translate like check out my flying car and it's just on the floor like this doesn't fly yeah i know but the flying car cool idea think about the idea [ __ ] another more pure example is when batman is holding the spear to superman's chest which seems to be a reference to saint michael vape oh no what okay someone's spearing somebody it's like he gets points like why why does he get king satan by raphael at this point bruce has deleted people have referenced how it's when i forget the specific names of it but when doesn't jesus get stabbed with something to see if he's alive with a spear yeah and both blood and water spurts out yeah yeah and so you can like whatever i don't care like someone else was stabbed with a spear at some point that could be referenced here you're like fine and he's like yeah but there's lots of other jesus imagery i'm like why are we giving points for this i don't understand giving poise for jesus imagery of all things that's the easiest most common one it still stays the same yeah like what is better the story's still [ __ ] this doesn't help this movie i'd say it's telling that they avoid the nuts and bolts when they talk about whatever's super bad it's like they don't actually talk about batman's superman they talk about everything around it you're like okay yeah you know what this video is telling me is that what it takes to be a modern masterpiece isn't to actually stand on your own just make references to a bunch of literary uh and art like art pieces [ __ ] hell vanquishing satan by raphael at this point bruce has deluded himself into believing that he is in fact killing an entity of pure evil he's a [ __ ] in the movie to think that fury they did not justify that i wish they did making him the savior of the world what about this frame of lex luthor as a reference to this painting of napoleon conqueror the death of superman standing up looking at stuff look crosstalk seems like it's just jokes like look at the cross it's a [ __ ] joke this is like this isn't isn't it at some point you'd expect a 14 year old to do why is this good yeah you're just referencing it they did a thing that looks like a painting it's like oh because it's hard so yeah like so stink painting death of christ young bruce ascending into the sea of bats mirroring paradise from dante's oh my god oh my god okay oh my god it's nothing stop it's like a painting so it's stopped tell me why i don't [ __ ] care that the scene looks like a painting that 96 of the people who watch this film haven't even seen i haven't even seen before and then they're gonna go around to tell all their buddies about all these paintings dude if one of you guys are called to tell me bvs is good and you showed me all these comparisons i just feel like okay but what about the film though could you imagine that it's like that's man i'm just south park episodes that guy who ties up cartman and just shows him pictures of going to like disneyland he's like here's a picture of um paradise lost in mirror like do you see do you do you see if i if i want to look at these paintings i'll look at the paintings i'm not going to see a shitty [ __ ] movie that has brief references to these paintings in a couple shots it almost like he's almost evaluating the paintings because like these paintings are really great and they probably have like a lot of really good like there's some meaning behind it and and um and there was a purpose and intent um zach started saw the paintings and was like oh i could like do this and just have it show i like remain nameless they have a character who does a major betrayal to one of the main characters and over the course of a long time star wars yes totally tries to get back into the good graces of the main selection of people despite that betrayal and at one point he's given a gift by someone he opens it up and he's a little confused he's like it's dante's divine comedy why and she's like you know um the layers of hell like the the closer you get to the main circle the worse the sin is and he's just like yeah and she's like who's in the center head of the three mouths in the final circle of hell or something there's judas brutus oh sorry judas yeah and and it's like that's left on its own and they stare at each other and the point obviously is like people the worst sinner is the one who like backstabs um which is relevant to his journey in the story you don't even need to read it it's like it's just a neat universe thing and it's also relevant to the literature that both of them would be aware of and i'm just like i'm actually using it that's an interesting thing to think about it's like should a reference be something that somebody can appreciate if they don't know what the reference is i think if you're gonna do it the way that they have to look into it then it needs to be that the story functions without knowing that information uh yeah i think that'd probably be an important part and i mean i would appeal to the idea that like references that are about critical things in your story like the fundamental point of the story should be understandable by people who don't know the reference you can't expect everybody to have read dante's divine comedies or paradise lost or all of these things well yeah i i think that's a question i'd like to ask him as well if i agreed with him on all of this like what's this going to mean for people who've never been exposed to any of this yeah like it doesn't you have to concede it doesn't stand on its own i mean he has to yeah like how would anybody how would any normal film go or like reasonably know that this bat ascending like most people are going to look at him be like what the hell why is he flying not ah i see this is a reference to the classical antiquity you know like or like um yeah that's where they're gonna be going what the [ __ ] yeah why is he flying because he's like really skinned deep as well like it matches the image that's it not necessarily the meaning because everything everything they've shown up to this point has uh we can take to be like literal and this is clearly metaphorical so it's a very weird switch that uh kind of catches you off guard yeah it's like oh is this a dream okay i guess sorry go on and on and on you haven't said anything yet yeah this is go on and on just reference like okay but these classical references know when the movie is good maybe if we just i'm waiting you're running out of time buddy you've gotta hurry up and on and on but these classical references aren't the only thing that makes this cinematography [ __ ] then all the only thing jesus murphy beautiful the composition of the frame and camera movements are given just as much detail take this down slightly to the left it goes up as superman goes up like this seems standard to me wait he's better that'll be his argument here that the camera perspective shifts from him looking up to him looking down it's not that probably him okay so we got the clip from like okay superman flying high above a sitting lex yeah as the camera shows us both perspectives one looking up at god most high and one looking down yes i get it i get it i get what they're trying to say really obvious and it's shitty it seems like some of the most simplistic [ __ ] to be the god-like character is high you're like okay i remember in school like i can't remember what class it was but like i distinctly remember like where we just got a sheet of paper that just showed all of like the most common camera positions for um for like and then what it conveys and like one of the the first ones that they show is when you look up it makes the character look bigger and like more prominent and more powerful and when you look down they look smaller and feebler like it's really not that complicated whoa camera rise to challenge god god meets him on his level as the camera slowly the scene ends with his superman on his knees going mom slowly descends to earth and when lex reveals his hand god is he slowly descends to earth at the top of the skyscraper brilliant now kneel before and the camera follows as we gaze upwards at the i like how he doesn't even touch his hair like not to mess it up or something you're going to do another take all right lex luthor is master of the hover hand yes yeah yeah i could believe it now powerful the roles have been reversed whoa yeah we have to talk so let's talk about the actual film like i get it yeah no you want to talk about stuff that's in the film your friends know how all of this is enabled because clark can tell when lois gets pushed off a building but he has no idea what's going on with his mom for some reason talk about this all wrong but for the sake of time i'll conclude the section with a quote by gordon the cinematographer for the godfather films a cinematographer is a visual psychiatrist moving an audience making them think the way you want them to think painting pictures in the dark okay i want everyone that defended the last jedi on the basis of some cinematography over the writing to realize this video is exactly what they sound like to us yes i appreciate cinematography it's a nice quote nice quote um yeah look i'm looking to talk about the writing if you could do that that'd be great we are we are eight minutes 30 into a half minute video we haven't talked about the writing yet we haven't talked about any of the writing you're right any of the characters any of the narrative at all good yes the score score is good sure yeah great music escort wonder woman's got a great theme her character is a ditzy lady amazing man has a nifty soundtrack yeah um prequels are full of great music oh prequels yeah what bro i mean a score like a great score can't really do much tonight oh wait um where did they shoot naboo was it in italy oh you might oh my god no oh god this could be the cleverest thing seville oh spain [ __ ] ah lord that's that's like oh that's the mediterranean all right that's close that's close they're brownish their culture is sort of i mean man oh wait how many spanish italian people you got to piss off by saying that they're very similar they're [Music] no then how come the mexicans speak spanish checkmate these these because a lot of these places speak spanish but imagine if it was uruguayan like that was the language of the europeans not to be confused paraguay is it guy or gray so anyway what was happening i don't want to be culturally insensitive so i want to make sure i get it right i think uh uruguay and paraguay i hope i've got that right um it okay pera let me double check the mystery of our time how do you play well we gotta talk about something interesting yeah we got nothing here uh pronounce paraguay pronounce uh it's why it is gwy okay paraguay yeah paraguay there we go oh see i didn't want to get that wrong what now i know when i go to paraguay i can be like hey guys are you impressed by how i pronounce your world and then they're confused because none of it isn't in the crowd okay guys what does 1985 when a 175 pound bear accidentally consumed over several pounds of cocaine [Laughter] oh jesus you know now that we're thinking about there's there should be a movie made about have you guys there was a pul a bear that was part of the polish army yes who did like trips and stuff for the military and of course in your head you're like please tell me that bear was on the front lines [Laughter] what was the name of that bear hold on i think count dakula made a video on it we need more bear biopics wojtek voytek is it voytek that's the name of the bear voy tech the bear yeah w-o-j-t-e-k voitech yeah there it is yeah make it like joke no not like joker make it like um i don't know something i just want it to exist if we get cocaine bear we should get a story about whoa i like the idea that her career is crashing and burning what was the direction she's being forced to direct the cocaine bamboo well at least well at least the bear is high i mean is that is that like a step down or like is that good or bad you don't i'm assuming this has stepped out i don't know because at one point i'm sure she had wider ideals than that but i don't know maybe i'm wrong you see that right she did that one was she did she direct that i think so yeah she did she did direct it oh yeah so maybe there is a little bit of justice in the universe well it's just because um it uh it did not make money that movie didn't make its money back but but she also said my god existed right and those movies made like hundreds of millions of dollars when you see a picture of her like that your first thought isn't cocaine bear well at first i'm like as soon as i saw the picture and saw coke elizabeth banks cocaine bear i was like is she gonna play cocaine bear is that like yes does that like just put her in a giant costume to play the bit i no no we need there's only one person that can go in a bear costume for a movie and that's nicholas cage yeah you have nicolas cage play cocaine is contractually obligated to punch women in his bear costume [Laughter] okay about to go to the theater can i get one for cocaine bear please i'm gonna say it loud when i go to the theater one for cocaine bear please i i just love the timing of this announcement this is incredible and then um when you know like how some movies have special promos for like the different popcorn instead of like a popcorn box it's like meant to look like a cocaine bag i wonder how you make that work but like from the outside have it be a bunch of like you know it just looks like white powder and then no no no you you uh you you dump a bunch of uh of gummy bears into a bag of powdered sugar yeah that might be the way to do it it's like mixing you know it's a combo you're mixing the flavors of cocaine and gummy bear and of course it fits because he's a cocaine bear so yeah what do you think about it look i'm excited for cocaine girl right i'm very excited for cocaine here e-fat movie's cocaine bear has to happen uh i mean let's not go that far it might actually be a great movie just like an odd irony oh that's true yeah yeah and um what other un-ironic great movies do we have we done on e5 batman and robin yeah that there is that definitely part four a score that matters uh i believe it is time to discover the truth of this argument is it gonna have a quote from john williams at the end of this one the score matters i love batman it's no mystery that a film's sound is half of the experience so why should the filmmakers select scores at random or write music that doesn't work well with the scene it's put in like you did in this video i guess yeah it is kind of funny hulkenberg also known as junkie xl do an absolutely fantastic job at composing scores for this film and its characters right as the film kicks off the score proves to be just as important as what is seen on screen and the opening sequence evidence in which the wanes are killed there is a voiceover of bruce wayne introducing the theme of fallenness just fallen for fallenness not the state of fault it's the state of being fallen i guess because what falls is fallen that doesn't sound clunky at all all right everything falls in this scene bruce's everything falls in this the pearls are falling so let me explain to you something called gravity [ __ ] it well you know what your doesn't fall the criminal he doesn't fall no that's right maybe that's on the theme the crime he saw his soul falls further and further into the depths of hell you see you see young bruce he falls through the well and the the the his parents fall too all right um there's a bit of it oh uh this might be interesting it's total like non-sequitur though some bethesda the bethesda acquisition has like gone through so it's done and microsoft has already said that some new games are just going to be exclusive to pc and xbox so uh of course yeah surprising no one or at least the chip well it's surprising no one but it's like man imagine imagine like if elder scrolls six or something is xbox exclusive like sony could legit be the leaves at their funeral even these sparks are false stop even this oh no oh no he's gonna be like the music see it's all going down like in notes the notes are descending now take a look at the score it falls one note at a time plunging it hold on straight down hold on to do um some of them are going up though as you can see as well yeah like music is a little more complicated than just it falls down and of course this is just one instrument like which instrument is this oh oh man now he's going to annoy me because this is music it falls so like not all of it does they're because that's not oh oh man stop it what instrument is this you cut that out show me the whole score show me the sheet music for all of the instruments so i can see if they're all falling i'll just skip ahead too uh yeah the school is good so can we talk about the film yeah i like listening to the score for this movie sometimes but that doesn't mean that i'll watch the movies listen to the score we're avoiding the the elephant that is filled in the room like we could barely sit in the room the elephant is so big and he's like let's talk about i don't know nothing you're like all right i guess we don't have to talk with the elephant i'm okay [Music] yes falling into until yeah that's raise him up to the light and guess what else raises shut up what what tell me tell me i gotta know dude wait well i guess this is now frustrating me because like i mean first question i have is what key signature like is this a minor or a major because if it's minor then it's good there's more to talk about than what he's talking about like if he actually wanted to talk about what music means and and what influence it has on how you feel about what you're seeing yeah bat minor the key of that minor yeah yeah because there's bats and bruce is a minor bruce light motif is an endless free-fall batman slide motif lifts him from those deaths oh that's inconsistent because batman's a bad guy yeah batman's a bad guy yeah yeah um uh okay i guess it's good then i'm just waiting for this time to talk about the ryan please all of these elements work together to set up just how far bruce has fallen and the beautiful life has created for him [Music] yeah it's very it this is like a you expect to see this in a film where someone gets power who is evil well i think i think a good example is you can like thanos it's funny he's gonna [ __ ] on like avengers and stuff but like some of these some of these films have really good scores um and you know like every time uh just thinking like civil war because civil war's an easy one to default to like captain america's theme is very sort of archetypical sort of hopeful heroic type of theme as well uh but then like the actual theme for the movie is a lot more dour um winter soldiers score is really good oh well i guess i don't want to i don't know like if we want to talk about music i don't want it to just be like oh it's good or bad or it rises or it falls you know it's like can we please like have you got to talk about this can we please go into more detail instead of just this reductive simplistic take the interesting thing is he's just highlighted as well it's like this sequence is bruce telling us with the um narration that this was the part in his life where he was like i can become batman and things will get better but it didn't and then starts killing people yeah the whole beautiful lie thing um so it's just like to me i'm just like couldn't you just apply anything you want like i i i don't know about this with uh when you get really interpretive with what the music definitely means or can mean wow i don't think there's many films that you can't do this with it's kind of hard because when it comes to like statements on music the very broad one is if something is in a major then it's probably going to make you happy and if it's in a minor it's going to make you sad that's like the broad feeling that like music evokes and then you can maybe go into more from there but it's real oh what was that yeah go to go to youtube and listen to the godfather theme in the major key listen to take me home in the minor key and if you change the line sleeps tonight in the minor key totally changes the entire feeling of the song if you change it from major to minor very obvious really it's really interesting how how much of a difference that change makes and i mean a good example is and a much more appropriate example in far from home mysterio's theme when he's a hero is really triumphant and like very standard almost like just standard like oh i'm a hero kind of music but then when he becomes a villain it just shifts a little bit and it takes on a much more sinister tone it's really good like that's really and of course a good example vulture from the avengers is the avengers theme inverted [ __ ] awesome it's way better than just like hey look it goes down the discussion on both of those don't end there like you go into why that's meaningful but this is that's what i was about batman fell and then he rose but he still didn't fully rise because he's killing me that's the that's kind of the frustrating thing the music is awesome in this film it's really good it's really really good but like yeah what it means in the film itself like it's the film doesn't support like any of it at all it's like doing all the heavy lifting here at junkie excel it's like going to a restaurant and like the appetizer is really good but then the main course is just awful and you're like well at least the you know at least the you know the what the fried mushrooms were good again i how you look bad i don't have anything bad to say about the score i'm just waiting to talk about the writing please [Music] with just one gorgeous piece by tom hulkenborg we feel the intensity and brokenness of bruce's state in this film if this doesn't convince you that zack snyder is a talented filmmaker the person made a great uh soundtrack they get the credit for that even zack snyder he even named the people it's like those people who did really good jobs yeah they must feel really upset that you gave zack snyder all the credit they're like he's like i mean i guess his logic would be zack snyder was probably in the room and it's like but i imagine that when it comes to music like zack snyder is a filmmaker that doesn't necessarily you know what i mean like it's almost like what direction he gives for the music would probably have a lot more to do with just han zimmer's interpretation of that rather than the fact that he said it if that even happened the thing what would convince me is if you can the bare bones everything that he had to input which vastly like how much is defined in this film by the writing even the soundtrack gonna have to mold itself according to the events of the film so the writing like you can't write and shoot a film around the score the score comes after yeah the person gets to see the the uh the director sorry it's possible with like a jukebox musical that's uh who's the person who makes the music the composer composer yeah the composer sees the movie and sees how [ __ ] horrific it is and he scrambles to make this and he pieced together he's like i gotta try and do the best thing that i possibly can for this movie that i know is gonna be horrible i gotta work extra hard to make it work um yeah uh i mean jukebox jukebox musical that's uh kind of like centered around songs that are already written and you're just having characters basically sing old popular songs you could do that but yeah musicals are a whole different thing yeah even action scenes that are built around the song as the bass line i could understand that but writing a story so like it's not impossible it's just like they don't do it that way it's just not it's not how they do it it's not like with king's men in the church scene what does it all mean yeah explain this is where it all comes together what is this film about good question he has not talked about the characters he's not talked about the writing or the narrative or you mentioned batman fell and superman batman dies whatever why is the story being told and what do we have to learn from it these questions seem to me to be completely lost to the moderate audiences lost are the days where we analyze works of art no no no no no you haven't analyzed this at all you said the painting is a reference to the [ __ ] painting this is projection you're not analyzing it we are we're desperately looking at the components to try and construct this thing and like figure out what it is but you're like god they don't even analyze they don't just accept that it's good because it references thing like what because it referenced as paradise lost that makes it good it must be good because it references a thing and we're sitting here desperate for you to talk about the stuff the actual substance of what's in it oh yeah [ __ ] [ __ ] not audiences like this is like where just like you go to a restaurant which is where i base most of my analogies today apparently and he's talking about he's talking about how well the menu looks the text of the menu right yeah and how the menu is new and sleek and how the the colors work on the menu and and all that sort of thing and then we get the food and the food is horrifically bad it's crap and we're like oh this food is terrible and he's like but the menus the ideas of the food what a great idea did you not read the description on the menu the ideas of the food was so baked into the description is you will like it like oh sweet why are you guys talking about how the food was cooked and executed i like to talk more about the ideas the points of the food yeah that i mean again zero percent death of the chef all right they have a little like potato cross like it references jesus he's like enjoy the meal you [ __ ] little fish finger man attached to the potato cross gravy coming out of his wound searching for the peace as well as finding ourselves embedded within it now we are finding ourselves in the balance thing for [ __ ] sake yeah man i don't know it's not like it's not that i want to hear you but it's more useful to hear you so um talking about the idea that you can like get a lot of introspection from media that you really like you can think about what was happening in them and what it taught you or what you made you realize about yourself i love that so much that it only means something to me if there are also existing things that i find [ __ ] and repulsive because of how much they oppose what i consider to be my values or my um personal perspective on things hence the disgust that comes with wonder woman 84 and seeing the scene where they're like lol rape it's like whoa and if he was like well no you need to find what you feel from that scene just like shut the [ __ ] up like it's okay well then you need to find what you feel from all the scenes and avengers yeah yeah what if i feel like it's [ __ ] no film this doesn't apply to you they're all perfect but checking a tomato meter and latching onto the popular opinion okay so i don't [ __ ] care about those people we went through the movie we've looked into many defenses of the movie we spent hours talking about all the arguments for why it's [ __ ] we didn't just look at a tomato me a mate all right yeah i believe one hundred percent in death of the tomato meter [ __ ] the time yeah or there's something else going on oh no i mentioned before most action movies today offer to us a certain amount of escapism watching the fun and amusing thor ragnarok is so much easier than facing the grim reality oh [ __ ] the grim reality the grim reality the grim reality that many people watch jesse eisenberg's performances like snicker i'm like yeah this is all right that's the reality hey look let me tell you the grim reality of civil war is that no matter you know the world will push back against you even if you have the best of intentions even if you're trying the best and even if they owe you a lot the world will push back against you and you have to fall in line or not be the reality of the fact that you can't save everyone you try to say as many people you can and you still can't save everyone how about your entire home world is destroyed but what you need to take from that is your home the people that were there not the land itself yeah asgard was never wasn't a place never was there's a people it's a great little message like ragnarok even has something in iraq of course it's got some good stuff yeah and and guardians too the whole idea that like family is kind of what you make it it's not you know yondu he's he's bad not like his actual dad because that's more meaningful like it's the people i like how that message kind of like flies in the face of man of steel well it does doesn't mean because because like superman seems to just cast aside his real parents as soon as he finds out about his uh his actual which he has zero connection to yeah which he and again that's good and they're all dicks well i mean that's the whole point guardians raises right like ego like first of all ego is a piece of [ __ ] like for starters he's an evil person but also like this relationship shouldn't mean as much to you as the one you had with the person who was actually there for you that's that's a good message yeah the idea is like bvs is just too grim for people they just need to real it's too real and amusing thor ragnarok is so much easier than facing the grim reality of the world we currently live in but what is a heavy emphasis on comedy yeah that's not even fair ragnarok is probably the the most comedy of all of the mcu yeah and it came soon after civil war one of the most like dramatic and grounded and they're both hyper popular how do you explain yourself oh he never does he doesn't explain he yeah you can express lies just as much as you can express i can ask questions and give answers what the hell yeah art asks the question doesn't give the answer [ __ ] someone yeah like art could do both it just depends on the execution well whether or not it's good depends on the execution it can do both they can do whatever they want in terms of like the message well yeah okay i think it's yeah that they pose a question without at least being able to interpret an answer that's from the content itself yeah of course i think that's very why am i there why am i there if not for uh something that i can work with because what he's referring to to me is the whole deconstruction movement with where they want to make stuff that's just i want to destroy this and i'm going to do it by asking some very simple questions also buy it's like whoa you didn't you haven't done anything productive there for example just like any institution or any con uh concluded thought being the the [ __ ] intellectual that's like you know what though why okay bye it's like if that's all you're gonna do [ __ ] off it's not very helpful is it like i just i guess i land on the opposite side if any of most of the time you're going to want to provide something something to at least think about not simply the question of why is it impressive to just go why i think i think that's the interesting thing is because somebody could easily be like well wait what do you mean like if i'm if i leave if i give you a question don't answer it that means i you know whereas it's like well generally what a piece of media will do is give you a few potential answers to that question but not tell you which one is correct like civil war yeah it'll give you something to think about and mull over and but it gives you yeah someone just used to choose something to think about there's material to think about that's the important part of two answers remain principled and absolutely go your own way or give an inch of yourself away in exchange for a potentially better world than if you stuck to your principles sort of thing it's uh it's a super interesting conversation to have and the film doesn't say either team is correct in fact you could argue that by the time we get to end game it says the cap should have uh should have stayed with tony um but that's only as a result of a third party attacking them sort of thing it's a complicated thing it's really fun to talk about and people to this day are like it's so dumb that anyone thinks insert character here is correct there are still people yeah who like obviously cap was right and people were like obviously tony was right it's almost like it's a really good movie and then what he's talking about joker you mean yeah yeah you go um what he's talking about reminds me of the family guy meme where they they they make fun of like peter do you remember you as a philosopher it is is it like dinner's ready and he just goes why that's it okay yeah i remember that um good job you asked the question something that shakes us makes us see things from a different perspective something that yeah art is something that shakes us and makes us see things from a different perspective okay the room did that i was trembling i was really bad definitions of art artists just any creative expression i don't want to say that well i was about to say his definitions more broad than possibly anybody's a [ __ ] like a toenail i could look out the floor be sh like shaken by it like you it's like well yeah that's some effective art right there literally shaking [Music] hide the world from us it shows us the best and worst parts it does it shows the best and worst of us and worse sometimes it shows the best sometimes it shows the worst and sometimes it shows mundane what if i can crochet a blindfold no he's just mine he's naming stuff he's not like saying how this film because we're about to we're hitting the end of this soon yeah this man this is terrible this is a master and ourselves we place ourselves into every work of art we see no batman v superman is a story about emperor do you think i place myself with teletubbies i don't maybe you should lie and if you want to go well teletubbies is an aw i'll be like shut the [ __ ] up tally tubbies is awesome sorry there's a baby in the sun it's art can you imagine if somebody said teletubbies is an art there's a lot of artistry that goes into teletubbies i mean making those suits goddamn tinky winky is art yes as his poe is hoe and dipsy self-forgive sacrifice and purpose like bruce we have all failed we have all failed [ __ ] you you i'm amazing yeah this video is a failure this should have been your thumbnail for your we lose sight of ours every single day yet there's redemption on the horizon yeah the music's overbearing as hell right now what an absolutely empty ass video dude i can't believe this is like peep video essay nothing has been said meanwhile anytime he does say something it just is really really restrictive and wrong this would be one of those videos where if someone was like what's effect like it's like watch this video and if you can't think of anything wrong with it like this is what efap will be it's just discovering everything nothing about this [ __ ] works from any production standpoint be it script sound commentary points any of it all garbage but i kind of like that it it exists like i said it's um evidence that our work is far from over on the internet you know it'll never be done our work will be done though it always will be when we're all in our deathbeds we will all say there we go we did it i am like clark we're all searching for a place in the world constantly doubting our worth and desperately seeking answers i am not those things stop well yeah i need to be uh you gotta be a [ __ ] depressed ass video essayist this [ __ ] comment on this video too by the way the fact that people are still discussing this movie tells you everything you need to know who is still talking about civil war oh doctor strange ant-man but like okay so first of all people are still talking about it does that mean tlj is just phenomenal like one of the greatest pieces people are still talking about the holocaust yeah this is an interesting argument i don't know why people bring this up like they let that [ __ ] go people are still talking about it must be good it's it's good because it was memorable people still talking about the prequels people are still talking about godzilla what else have we shat on people still talking about all kinds of man think of the [ __ ] coverage fermando must be good must be great to write this movie off as being too highbrow or trying too hard to be too eyebrow no it is it wants to be highbrow but the brows are very low the brow was low but it went very high up its own ass that's like the qualifier i guess yeah this this film will go down in the anals of history yes the angles of history but when someone actually takes the time to look at what's been done with this film the beauty is hard to oh the beauty is hard to ignore beauty is hard to find yeah honestly yeah zack snyder created a film a work of art for us to see ourselves in and we burned it to the ground oh so wait he's saying simultaneously it's like really dark and gritty and it shouldn't be that way but that's the point and also it's something for us to see ourselves in and then we burnt it to the ground we couldn't take it we couldn't deal with seeing ourselves oh my god it's so funny maybe if we burned it to the ground it was because it's [ __ ] this is the thing the only response to this is maybe it was really badly written though what about that yeah why didn't you talk about the writing the thing that it's terrible in it it must be awkward i guess this one videos like this need to be recognized more movies like this need to be understood they are they aren't made to take you out of the real world they are made to think about what's actually in the real world oh yeah i remember that flying guy outside that's picking up fighting fighting the cave troll from warrior what the [ __ ] is what is wrong with people it's about redemption it's about failure it's about it's about family yes and that's what's so powerful about it yeah man i love that again imagine being a person who believes that batman superman is like one of the greatest films ever made you end up making videos like this and you look back at how he is like oh my god this [ __ ] video of jesus how embarrassing so complicated at times yes is it difficult to watch our favorite childhood heroes in such a somber state absolutely does it merit more than one watch-through like when i see it when i see superman because i am an adult i can differentiate different versions of superman in media that other people create i'm not like that's my superman that superman belongs to me and it hurts my fifi's for superman [Music] good things if you watch a film without using your brain once you've essentially just ridden a roller coaster and i don't mean to step on martin scorsese's toes if if you watch a film without using your brain it's essentially so i can't turn my brain off that's the ongoing discussion this this movie can only benefit from you turning your brain off as you watch it i love that he's about to quote monster sessy do you think monster cersei thinks batman v superman is a work of art is anything but like garbage yeah do you think he actually likes this film like if you had a conversation with him do you think you'd be happy with what he tells you also it kind of goes to show that the dare i say toxicity of defining [ __ ] is not art or not cinema all it is is angry people trying to big up one thing and [ __ ] on something else as there was tiger with sweetie he's like it's the marvel cinematic universe it's cinema like you know like i don't know what i'm meant to say it is it's cinnamon not cinema wrong it is cinema that puts you in a cinema and it's cinematic i just don't understand it's the marvelous cinematic universe every meaningful definition it is that but by the definition of yeah but it's superheroes yeah which is you gotta work on that and then like what about all the ones that are considered fantastic works of art like like dark knight and logan and others and it's like all those those are different okay i don't mean to step on martin scorsese's toes here but art is not an amusement park and make no mistake film candidates it can be yeah um yeah why can't why would any who in the world has ever said otherwise about not i think that uh amusement parks are underrated i think that there is an art to making an amusement park making it a really well crafted one it's funny man that's very reductive yeah how about moving through a haunted house for example the amount of work that someone would have put in to give you a specific experience based on how they understand those particular experiences be executed imagine like like every every roller coaster that's like really well made and and well crafted and everything like all the uh the work that had to go into designing a roller coaster that will be thrilling and smooth yeah and you'll want to go on again as soon as you get off like you know what don't knock on amusement parks this came up in an older event i think but like right you could you could picture someone being in a car and being like well cars aren't art they're like a functional thing that you use it's like oh tell that to the person that designed this thing please they designed it who spent their life and also i mean that that would be a funny thing for someone to say about a car when there is very clearly in basically every car the goal of making it kind of have a face well and almost oh yeah giving it like an aesthetic that will yeah i would argue the balance between utility and beauty they like they want to make it it needs to do what it has to do but also they want to make it look [ __ ] weird it'd be funny right because it'd be like well obviously like a lambo is a piece of art but not like a honda civic or a honda and it's like nah come on it's all uh it all is or none of it is you got a pink one too protective of that wood you bet no art is for bvs not for cars all right hey a [ __ ] table can be a work of art absolutely cabinetry absolutely yeah carpentry is a yeah anything that is somebody's like what they do in life can be art like there's probably even an art to cleaning the floor in a certain way you know there's like there is an art there's an art to stocking produce and hand stacking fruit on top of each other to look like aesthetically pleasing to look at yeah yeah fruit arrangement yeah we're trying to get to like extreme examples but none of these shock me i'm just like yep if i shot on the floor and sculpted a face into it like so that's art now by the way nobody wants their fruit to look like a zookeeper's bucket exactly [Music] oh my god all right yeah film is art a video that says sanders what a load of crap disclaimer i do not own that's always been a worthless thing to put into your videos do anything they don't give a [ __ ] mate i don't know why you said that all you've said is this video belongs to disney and water brothers why would you say that i don't know all copyright true this is fair use this is a review this is absolutely fair use i don't know about the i don't know if it's not a matter who owns the copyright that's the whole point of fair use i don't think i don't know if the music would count for that but the visuals certainly uh no i think music i think i think music does count because it's it's music from the film especially he's also specifically talking about the music uh well i don't know about that he uses it as a backing track i i don't know if that's covered by copyright because he's not transforming i'm just using it for his benefits don't be surprised i'm saying this applies to basically i'm pretty sure all of us have done this everyone on youtube does this the copyright is still not they're not sure about this one um visuals i think are a clear-cut thing but putting a backing track behind you talking when it's you're like well yeah but it's the music from the film it's like that's not really yes when you talk about the score rags is right about that but he only does that for what like a small portion of this video well even if he's even if he's not specifically talking about the score and he's using the score to amplify a message that he's giving that is transformative and that's rocky ground right there well i think it depends on what like if you're using the music from the film i feel like there's more of an argument than like if you're using i.e sonic mania music in like every video you talk about any film you want you know like if you're a sonic menu while talking about just like i don't know one division it's like i don't well like you're just bringing imagine you made an album and someone was like i'm using it for backing because i'm creating a review of some game and i'm just going to use all of your music i'm not going to crowd you but i but i would never make that claim for i'm i'm saying that it's like when you're using the music from the media that you're reviewing i think that there's more of a justification for that um i think if you're talking about music fair enough i don't know otherwise though in the by the way if i was talking like a review of bama vs superman and um i played the entire video film from start to finish in my video while i was just rambling on about my feelings and you could still hear the film as well i'd be like that's not enough you need to this is not only is that really lazy but that's like i i would be concerned that uh copyright's not being held up at that point uh well yeah but like when you're using star wars music in like your tfa videos do you feel like that's uh well yeah the reason yeah that's that's what i'm highlighting is that we all do it and i'm not sure that it's uh it's it is fair use oh well i i guess because when it comes it just gets past content yeah what it does at a lower volume yeah yeah oh well i guess because i've always because part of the reason why i don't use like music and just anything where i don't have a specific subject matter is because of that very reason like it's irrelevant so it wouldn't be it wouldn't in my mind be considered like the right context to use it uh i'm like i in the crash video i'm using crash music like of course well sure but i wouldn't put anything over you for like if you used a random bloodborne track when you're talking about something spooky in a in a crash game because it doesn't have any spooky tracks or whatever oh i'm fine with it i guess um right like yeah to create what i'm highlighting right now is like that i'm interested in the whole topic i don't know what would be considered transformative enough but right now i don't think that is actually enough legally i think that they can get you and that's why music is really hard to for example this efab is probably not going to be able to i will we'll be all right if it can stay up i don't think it'll be stricken down but there's so much of hansmith is in his music in this right now that i don't think he's going to be able to survive copyright what you mean like if like it was like all right we're going to court like oh if i i think i would lose if they took me to court not that i would fight it i should be like i'll i'll re-upload it i'll take it out all right it's chill yeah i guess i guess um because the problem is when it comes to like the state of copyright now it's kind of it's tough because um a lot of people are doing things that aren't right legally as the law stands and like you and then you of course you can make the argument that like even even devoid of the law like using somebody's music to make your video um and then and it's totally unrelated and you haven't transformed it in any way it's all very um very eyeballed as well right like if i'm if i want to make a review of the batman of this movie and i play all of his scenes all in a row at the beginning of my video and then i commentate for another two hours after it yeah i imagine a courtroom might be like i don't know i don't know i imagine that they probably i think yeah i think the whole idea is is what you made a substitute for yeah well maybe that's maybe that but that that makes it complicated right because if you are using music that's totally unrelated it's like but i'm talking over all of it this isn't a substitute for listening to this yeah i'm not sure if the argument works um well i don't know if i don't know if it does either um i wouldn't say that it does right like if you i don't know the reason i choose the tracks that i have in my videos is to evoke a feeling rather than being like oh this music is good i want people to like my video for the music that is good that i can't make but but that's i mean i don't think that's i imagine that's not relevant at all whether or not i don't know if it's considered transformative or not i don't well i don't think the intention matters it's just whether or not it actually is i guess i find it interesting because um one of the conversations people have is like on twitch a lot of people just play music that yeah you know they just haven't used spotify playlists it's like and then for most of it they're not saying anything yeah and it's like man it gets a lot more complicated with stuff like that because it's just like that isn't that just repurposing the music for your benefit it's like what if you are a streamer who just plays all the most popular songs doesn't do [ __ ] all on the stream and of course there's a way to get around it which is to either use royalty-free music or buy the license or the music just buy the license and then you can use it commercially in any context you want yeah like um there's a there's a decent list of very talented uh artists who allow you to use their music and it's not copyrighted yeah i mean there's there's musicians all over the internet yeah but all work is copyrighted whether or not they do anything with it any as soon as you make something that's copyrighted oh yeah yeah they don't claim it but it is copy everything is copyrighted everything in existence that's creative is copyrighted just as soon as it's made then it's copyright that's just how the system works if you're a martian you made it on mars um oh it would still be copyright yeah like if you were in if you were on mars on a mars mission and you drew a stick figure that's still copyrighted it was made by a person oh i mean it's good that they haven't specified that it has to be from myth i'm i'm proud of them that means when the aliens show us their superhero stories we can't just copy and paste them into that will also be protected we won't be able to steal it that's right damn um for real though when it if you're like if you want to make content on the internet you should think about these things like copyright and stuff like that because it's unfortunate because you can do a lot of clever things when you're editing stuff like that like like uh say for example rey has a cameo in a new star wars movie and you're reviewing that scene and when she shows up you can play a like theme what was it called the light motif um even among your soundtrack because you're like how cool is that while i'm talking about her and she arrives i push her theme into the background of what i'm saying that takes a level of talent but in a courtroom they might be like no you're just stealing the music you're like right yeah okay well kind of one of the reasons why i bought software to make music is just specifically so that i can do that eventually and just have the music so that it's like totally and i think especially as the law begins to change and starts to catch up with the internet like i imagine that more and more there's going to be issues in terms of oh for sure in terms of the way that things are operating it's pretty crazy because like all game soundtracks won't get you in trouble right or at least most you can just use them all yeah but i think it's just fundamentally that like video game industry seems to be more caught up with i think there is a recognition that um because ie streaming video games there is a question to be said about how transformative that is yeah like um like especially if you play the whole thing and don't say anything long plays right there's like an industry for that which i'm assuming i don't know where all of you lie on that i think i know rags you're not happy with them right uh with long plays yeah they do you know people play games with no no commentary no commentary whatsoever no i'm not a fan of that that's weird i don't yeah well there's people out there who love long plays because they don't want someone's commentary they just want so like bioshock like people like to absorb that game as an experience that they're almost like they're playing the exactly yeah questions games that are narratively focused yeah they should be playing it but i guess i don't know there's this weird group of people who are like you know what either they can't afford it or they're like i don't want to play it i just want to see but of course yeah that's the thing is like um you know it when it comes to video games and streams there just seems to be a recognition that a lot of the time it's advantageous if somebody sees a game that you know like if you see somebody streaming a game uh even though that streamer is benefiting greatly from using that video game it's like well if we get a sale from that or like two sales or 10 sales or 100 sales that's worth it i mean when he plays a game that can sometimes just make the success of that product yeah i'll be wrong so like at that point as opposed to film i guess that's the thing is like video games have the advantage of yeah you can watch it but like video games are meant to be played um whereas if it's a film and it's just uploaded on youtube or something it's like oh well you just got the movie [Music] yeah i mean they're still figuring it out that's still an element of the wild west of the internet there's still to be destroyed i imagine yeah give it time and also yeah craig said it before but um just saying i don't own the clips that's not going to save you or like yeah go to warner brothers that won't say that's why i brought it up i just find it a funny meme this used to be something they do back when people start to upload clips and the idea that someone's still doing it it's like oh my goodness it's not gonna help you in court do you know why anybody would assume you owed the [ __ ] clips yes brides do belong to water brothers including the right to stop you from making this yep yeah thanks for acknowledging that you recognize that [Music] hey guys thanks so much for watching this is my first attempt at making a video essay so let me know what you think oh i believe it i feel bad now did you not realize that what do you mean today this is e-fab we've covered things like this that are like the hundredth video from people oh i just looked up his youtube channel yeah he's he hasn't made a video essay before well um a good first attempt in terms of like he managed to put everything together you know i mean this is the quintessential video essay formula yep this is what gets churned out when you watch all of the usual suspects also please check out some of my other projects and support me by liking subscribing and sharing oh all right that's it yeah i guess sorry that's not the thumbnail of it this is alrighty yeah one down down one more well yeah there's one there was the one that was supposed to cover today oh [ __ ] yeah midnight to the one that we were supposed to cover this one's thumbnail is a picture of batman superman it says misunderstood how long is it long enough that you're probably not going to be able to see the whole thing but that's fine ah jesus i was so i was like oh nice i can go to bed timely is gonna be great [Laughter] it's got the meme sex misunderstood why do you punish me so immediately because i love you really uh but yeah as soon as rags comes back we'll um we'll boot her up it's uh the context for this one i probably wait until he's back to say that too um i don't know what are we talking about bama versus not very good yeah was that was that uh we've covered what two was that the second video we've covered defending it it was right because man of steel yeah yeah we've got two yeah i think from aquaman shazam whatever else we'll only be doing the one eve not a double because [ __ ] me oh you know we can't we can't keep having this happening all right it's ridiculous are we even going to do an efap on suicide squad is there anything that can be done on suicide squad i don't know i will have to see because the thing is i think it's going to be bad time if suicide squawks we're going to be busy that's gonna be zack snyder's snyder cut coming out then and the thing is we're probably gonna probably be long before people release videos that are essay-like they're like zack snyder's snyder cutisms are an incredible masterpiece that people don't understand i imagine oh [ __ ] i just realized we'll have to cover videos like that yep great i mean the caliber so far has been through imagine twin perfect makes one i wonder how he'll do it this time around knowing everything that he said to us knowing that we're out there watching working in the internet coming to get you okay all right rags we're on to the all right number two um number two how appropriate cosmonaut released a video that was called bvs sucks or does it suck whatever um it's just i think it's like an hour long it's a breakdown of things that are bad in bvs whatever that's fine i've not i don't think i've seen it maybe i have i don't know either way we've never covered it um and yeah i wouldn't have a huge amount of hope that he managed to dismantle the move very well but somebody took issue with his video and made a response so we're in a position where we are going to look at someone defending bvs from cosmonaut variety hour now that's uh that's unusual what might you say might but they'll both be [ __ ] so i'm yeah i'm curious how this will go formatting wise uh i posted the thumbnail there right do you appreciate it yeah misunderstood i think it makes it so subtle yeah so here it goes like that it's gonna mean fun isn't that just interesting you bet it is straight from ad techs.com the favorite of it i think i think that batman should have misunderstood written on his cow yeah in that font managed to have sex that should be his wife's name oh but then she'd be understood no she'd be misunderstood uh well you need to put an ad next to the s on on superman to sum up the character to make sure we don't miss the point um here we go i'm gonna give batman v superman dawn of justice eight out of ten that's actually a really good score for it um yeah i'm not sure i mean it's close enough yeah this is a tough one to call i wouldn't blame anybody for giving it a two that's fine yeah that's the sonic music wow that was the worst piece of crap i've ever seen so we wanted we were talking about balancing all right [Music] piece of [ __ ] so we haven't like we have what's called the triple threat we have yeah the bad audio quality we have the bad text quality and we have the bad music selection and the clips and we have a family guy reference yeah and a family well yeah all right we're for a ride [Music] variety hour or as i'm going to be calling him marcus made a video for his worst superhero movies of all time series where he covered batman vs superman and i had no intention to make a response or even watch the video it's not because i couldn't stand hear someone bash my lord and savior zack snyder [Music] no actually that but i already liked this video better than the last one yeah this one's more pushy so far funnier yeah hearing opposing opinions i think it can be interesting to see why the person feels the way they do and how they came to that conclusion and maybe show me things from a different perspective that i haven't considered but the reason why i wasn't interested in viewing this video in particular is because i saw his tweets and his intentions were clear the standard cut is coming out and getting attention so why not make a video about his controversial predecessor and i don't knock him for capitalizing on it i respect the hustle but i also knew that yeah that's quite the capitalist god damn these guys i respect the hustle it's like what do you what i don't you respect me transparently on the internet the way i'm gonna do this to make money good like it but remember bash capitalism i mean yeah i thought cause well [ __ ] whatever is if i'm gonna pretend to understand any of this based on his previous videos when batman starts shooting people and killing them then i get the idea that maybe someone doesn't understand the point of the dark knight returns and with that i'm going to talk about how exactly their point that's right well it's a broken point um is whether or not someone understands the dark knight returns up for debate when someone's made an adaptation that may or may not reference the dark knight returns at least in portion or fully this is what means about the whole faith is totally different totally different batman and this is the thing in the context of i'm like i'm going to make an adaptation of it and then i do everything different and you're like wait that's not like that and i go yes it is i think you [ __ ] up i think you missed but but like yeah i'm assuming zach was doing his own thing but uh yeah i imagine i mean clearly i think he was he was i think that's people's problem is that he's doing his own thing let's understand the matter of superman man of steel and batman v superman are a mess that's has no idea how these characters work so i knew where he stood i knew why he was making the video so i didn't feel the need to give it any of my attention however i've been getting comments and messages non-stop since release asking me for my opinion and to reply to it so i finally gave it a watch and honestly it's worse than i thought it was going to be yeah oh boy this is exciting i have to do what this gentleman needs to do is he needs to slow down when he speaks i also recommend another thing really slurring constantly yeah and if don't panic if if you like if you read out a sentence and you're like oh no was that good or not oh no i guess i'll go into the next i was like do it again it's all right let's do it again you could you redo it i have redone lines as many times as you want and um just let's say for example there's four of them and then i check them in the timeline i end up going with number two like that can happen totally fine yeah select that sentence and audacity and hit control k and start over here if you're like me record it all and then take three or four takes of each line and then still have some that are [ __ ] and then you have to go back over all of your [ __ ] audio and get to find one if you need to re-record it um prediction cosmonauts arguments that involve adaptation [ __ ] is going to be stuff that we push back on this guy is probably going to push back on them as they are accurate to the comics well we'll be like but when cosmo talks about plot holes and this guy tries to counter them that's what we're probably going to be on his side of the court yeah yeah maybe this is going to be a very interesting superman uniting us yeah well it's almost like a three three faction war you know text this is the guy that uh the previous dude recommended oh yeah it was tex yeah you're right oh my goodness gracious wait that means you've covered the trifecta we've done all three yeah we got it's a tr it's like a triangle you had twin perfect recommended the last guy we covered no the last guy we covered recommended twins perfect who recommended text we've covered all these people today i think that's uh just coincidental well and like i said we're not doing bvs after this all right this is it i'm done with bbs we're gonna move on [ __ ] that movie yes i genuinely feel that he didn't pay attention to the movie because he has a misunderstanding of character motives and numerous scenes throughout and before anyone asked he did watch the ultimate edition i don't feel it necessary to cover everything he mentions because a lot of his criticisms are things that have been said over and over again since the film's release things that have been addressed explained and debunked already so i'm not gonna go into extreme detail on those topics instead have they things that have been debunked already i wish you could give me a quick fire list on those ones yeah instead i will bring them up again at the end and get some advice to marcus for now let's get into the video and start addressing the issues i have with it all right the theme of today is irony marcus sets that up right in the beginning when he claims sander doesn't understand watchmen superman and batman but then marcus will go on to not understand several parts of the movie let's take the guy who doesn't understand watchmen and give him the rights to make batman and superman movies i'm sure he'll do a great job i don't so um someone could have said yeah sure let's give mike flanagan the option to adapt the turn of the screw when he did such a [ __ ] job of adapting uh the haunting of hill house i'd be like um what you made was really good i don't care if it's a bad adaptation of something else because the argument often comes up is well wait if it's literally unrecognizably different then why even adapter in the first place it's like so that argument doesn't actually address whether or not the content's good you're just asking a question of curiosity the answer is it's fine the ip gives them access to the funding or the audience to give it a chance you might be like well that's not very um honest is it you'd be like i mean you can take a moral issue with it that doesn't really change if the story is good or not yeah it's time that's all i got that's where the conversation ends i think zack likes superman so i think he made these movies to make the kind of superman that he would want so instead you get these movies with a bad superman and then eventually that's so bad it's not even it's about a very appropriate editing of the clips there um because uh him in the skulls superman doesn't like the skulls it's so weird yeah though yeah i i would use the clip of superman uh sending zod straight into the gas station yeah that would be a great question yeah batman and all across these three movies these characters never improve in any way the biggest problem with these movies is that he doesn't understand um um improve i guess batman's a lot more light-hearted than justice league cruz and yeah between justice league and bvs he's sort of like oh i gotta use super powered people to help protect the world from bad super powered things okay so yeah you know there's something i guess that's sort of an improvement yeah that's something batman superman superman uh goes from being super down and depressed to saying i'm a big fan of justice you know what yeah that's great yeah that's better hey wonder woman technically improves in the timeline yes true she goes from wonder woman to wonder woman 84 to justice league batman vs superman so that's that's an improvement there you go so you get something danny's characters also daniel's noticed that he said three movies and all across these three movies so he's including 2017's justice league marcus you're a sophisticated guy you like superhero movies that's most of what you talk about i'm more than certain that you are well aware about the situation of 2017's justice league and the extensive re-shoots that happened from josh whedon the warner brothers oh it does count because it was movie joshua josh um okay it's the movie though it's an interesting question i was gonna say in canon that is the timeline unless they decide to change it whatever but are they zack snyder's creation in justice league or are they joss whedon's or are they both of theirs i suppose what we have to go on is the fact that he's never seen the movie and everyone who likes his work has said that it's not his work and that he shouldn't look at it because they butchered it i guess we'll find out when we watch his movie how much of it is people though are we about to have the ship of theseus discussion um the well i mean i don't know if we would have to go that deep down if zack is about to provide his version i think the answer is already clear right which is like well this one's josh whedon's and jo [ __ ] he's got me saying it now joss whedon and uh the zacks will be jaded cut because interestingly i don't think zack snyder cut is gonna have him say i'm a big fan of justice i don't think he's gonna say that probably not but yeah and i don't think batman is gonna be cracking as many jokes um because josh because that would be [ __ ] joss would probably have wanted to lift the spirits especially when dealing with a character like superman you can understand the through line there um so i i'm willing to accept that if you wanted to judge whether or not zach has a good idea of these characters that you judge the extended bvs and man of steel and you don't judge from justice league necessarily i i do kind of think that's kind of fair i get it yeah sure especially with this enough to really put a big i guess i don't i don't yeah i don't have an investment big enough to really care either way um as long i just want to know what you're doing beforehand stick to it yeah the actual version of justice league wasn't sanders movie i figured someone who talks about the genre as much as you do would know that so we only got two movies from snyder with these characters we're gonna come back to his statement again about standing not understand these characters later but for now let's just move on i also think it's funny that he gives marvel a backhanded compliment you can make a movie that has a boring ass story but if you make the main character relatable and interesting it will still make money okay it will still make money what that i this is why cause it's not about quality he sucks sucks so much so he just said that like the mcu is successful because it has good characters even if it has shitty plots like a little big buddy because of that it's like [ __ ] man of steel still made shitty showing this guy yeah and black panthers it's not of all of all the characters to choose for this why him because he thought the black panthers plot was [ __ ] but t'challa was good i guess and the black panther made money black ones made a [ __ ] ton of money right yeah i think it is two billion [ __ ] it didn't make two billion dollars it made less it made a lot less than two billion dollars are you sure yes it made like one point was it captain marvel that made two billion no no no standalone superhero film has ever made two billion dollars uh it's very important all right no no it didn't it made no why are you guys mixing i'm pretty sure you know you are very good again so you guys are wrong yeah you're wrong asking questions [Music] so the thing with black panther was that domestically it was more successful than infinity war internationally it wasn't though like and so therefore like total box office gross was like a lot lower than infinity war infinity war was like 2 billion but i think 1.5 billion of that was like overseas whereas black panther half of what was us so i think black panther is the second most successful mcu film in the united states well to close it like none of us actually give a [ __ ] about that anyway like you know like did it make money we at efappa like huh i don't care if it made money yeah it doesn't have anything to do with the quality as we all know and if any one of us was to suggest well yeah but it tells you one thing and go what you know it tells you that even with a boring plot as long as you have a good character you can make money like what no what what about transformers what are the great characters in the transformers the character is not well characterized in black panthers john wick two and three he was more well characterized in civil war that's way better in civil war yeah um yeah i just i just feel like that's way too restricted like like why does a movie make money it's like there could be [ __ ] [ __ ] tons of reasons it's not it's just like it's kind of if it has a bad plot it has to have a good character you agree right it's like well no it could have just amazing cgi or whatever i don't know we all kinds of reasons it could be an ip what could be right characters in avatar for instance well i think you nailed it with transformers right like we don't need to go further than that it's like oh that's a boring plot but they have great characters like sab witwicky yeah okay um so yeah shitpoint from cosmonaut let's see how this goes it marvel has been doing this for years now most of these movies are not very ambitious as far as story is concerned they are um i don't know what it means to be ambitious with stories just like the last video tell me what you mean never know what any of these people mean they are simply carried by their charismatic characters you say it like it's a good thing that sounds pretty boring is it not ambitious to have your story carried by charismatic characters um he's well so this is the thing if you said as a defender of the mcu that it's good they have good characters because of how [ __ ] their plots are i'd be like that's a weird defense you just made yeah it's good they're plots of [ __ ] but the characters are not necessarily good just charismatic yeah that was another weird thing about the characterization of the argument i mean um i wouldn't use this defense funny enough i'll discreet right so which of these would you say overall plot is thumbs up in order it would probably like good bad bad bad good good bad bad bad good bad bad good bad good from what i remember i was just guardians doesn't two doesn't have a huge amount of plot in it much of a plot so it's kind of yeah i'm coming good ragnarok's probably bad plot wise i can't quite remember if everything holds up in that regard black panther is bad infinity war yeah yeah ant-man lost bad captain marvel's bad i put it on the good side i feel like infinity war has enough issues that it could be that mixed i really like infinity infinity war but yeah i like that i can't even remember what the ant-man was plot was nobody else i know i saw that movie i know i did but i just cannot remember what the plot was and of course captain marvel is horseshit so if we if someone asks me like what do you think makes the ones that are good that you describe with a bad plot i probably would argue it's the characters but the way that marcus said it makes it sound really really bad yeah yeah he'll do that half the mcu movies are stand out i mean captain marvel iron man two and three doctor strange throw the dark world far from home ant-man both of them are really underwhelming and far from home well wait what do you say about that selection that they're really unforgettable uh they're really forgettable and can be skipped how do you skip far from home how do you skip a lot of those a lot like doctor strange you what there's nothing after it well i guess now i don't think doctor strange is good plot wise but i i would definitely recommend people see it i mean yeah yeah you kind of would encourage people to i'd say it's worth seeing for infinity war to get context yeah yeah absolutely it plays interesting character weird good journey maybe if we just we just push on through to more like a discussion that's a little less on shaky weird ground where we're desperate for definitions i would love to talk about that too yeah and then forget about movies even if the leads are charismatic as you put it so before he gets into bvs he spends 15 minutes talking about man of steel and what he doesn't like about it like the way it shot the section on krypton superman's suit the alien tech the amount of action and destruction and superman killing zod so basically most of it i was originally going to skip over this part because i want to get the bvs since that's what's in the title but it turns out he misunderstands and misrepresents several things that man of steel as well so oh man of steel too all right i was not expecting this it's so weird it's like a boxing fight with these guys but we are also in the ring just off center like yeah we're going to punch one of you guys we're going to have to we're just the judges yeah where the judge is about to send in the the judge bots this is exciting this feels unprecedented i have no idea who we're going to be attacking or defending in this video no boy no one is free from sin it's like who's more likely for you guys to disagree with someone who defends the [ __ ] out of man of steel and bvs we're all like oh old hospital we're like oh [ __ ] oh i figure we might as well too if you just want to watch the bbs part go and skip ahead to the time stamp here oh no we're in it oh my god it's like half the filth it's hot oh my god you're bringing us back to bed of steel sorry i missed it oh no if you just want to watch the bbs part go and skip ahead to the time stamp here i wish no i don't want to lose out on twitter i already mentioned he said he isn't a fan of the way it shot the suit or the alien tech which is fine that's just his preference he also seems to think that the movie is too long and he doesn't like the intro section on krypton oh and also the movie itself is kind of boring because it's too long yeah whatever a lot of the shitty arguments are long but like it's subjective it's too long in what sense yeah yeah the movie sucks you can't just make the right argument exactly we did this uh i remember i think it was either the end of the man of steel coverage of the beginning of the bbs one of the movies thing i was like either we're going to be appealing to too many slo-mo shots or bloated scenes that are unnecessary and those two elements would be where i would be like oh it's two it's longer than it need be that is gonna be the conclusion but not because it's boring it's long it's boring because because it's long yeah it's boring but this so man of steel is definitely shorter than the lord of the rings does cosmonaut think that lord of the rings is boring yeah you need to do needs to do better than this yeah the opening scene is a good example of things being too long for no reason i don't need to see superman's dad flying around on a dinosaur and doing karate i know when you say me all right like i don't need that i'm fine with seeing things i don't need well like if i describe getting backstory if it's serviced well and it's done well and it's not too long and it serves a purpose and it establishes something i need to know like there's a lot of a lot of potential reasons why yeah if you describe this scene in a broad sense like do you want to see in the prologue the scene where superman's father when he was a baby broke away from not only the council's orders but the coup that took place and fought his way to get the ship that his son was in to launch to save him from the planet's doom i'd be like that sounds like it could be a really good prologue yeah like [ __ ] it let me see it let's go and then you watch it and you're like oh there's lots of things i have questions about now yeah you're like okay all right yeah oh the planet's gonna blow up let's just speed it up the movie is also two and a half hours long and if you look at the plot it's kind of hard to understand this time up because it's not a complicated story i just want to touch on this because i don't think man of steel is much longer than any other movie in the genre most comic book movies always seem to stick between the two not a good counter neither is a good argument to begin with yeah that makes me sad you both get minus this is this is what the whole video is gonna be isn't it just two people thinking he feels he feels this way but i feel he's wrong yeah but movie's too long and that's why it's boring that's a bad argument yeah but all movies are this long in this genre god damn it okay so wait so are they all bad or is it okay that they're all that way i don't what what what is the statement you're making i'm so confused i like that he had a little section for what was subjective if you will where he was like oh he doesn't like the alien design he doesn't like what was like oh we're gonna throw that out like why didn't you throw this one out he if that was too long i guess this was his preference like yeah until he makes an argument about what could be cut just ignore this two and two and a half so man still being two hours and 28 minutes isn't anything out of the ordinary and i can't really think of many scenes that they could have taken out to make it shorter and now the krypton intro i think it's interesting that he doesn't like it because it is actually a more comic accurate version of superman's homeworld the ice covered krypton that most people are aware of was created for the richard donner movie okay i'll tell you why he probably cares because cosmonaut in the past has argued that if you're accurate to the comics it's like a plus it's good yeah yeah so also oh yeah when it's uh the mandarin yeah then it's not also i can think of comic book arguments thing it's always autism always i can also at least i can also think of at least one scene that we can cut from the movie to make it shorter and improve the characters immensely the scene where pog kent is talking to clark at the truck that scene just cut it out completely cut to them in the farm in the barn that's all you got to do the yeah it'll improve the film and it makes it shorter so why not in how he complains how unlike the comics this version of superman is but then complains about a comic accurate section also this intro serves multiple purposes one it shows us superman's homeworld and his father since not many movies have spent that much time on them we get a glimpse at their politics and the world he comes from two introduces so i don't care if you're not really shitty it's really bad glimpse of politics in the world that he comes from i i mean i'm not i'm not in the position to argue that it's a uh like like a useless scene in terms of adding anything to story it's it's what it adds to the story that i take issue with there's lots of things in this thing that are really stupid we've been over them and i'm still covering issues with it conceptually as an idea i'm fine with this amount of backstory to explain things it's what's being explained and i'd like it would be no point in us rehashing all of it it was in one of the man of steel effects so go back to that one if you're interested folks yes it brings up like and subscribe don't forget to smash that bell don't forget to hit the notification bell all right guys you know when i was researching this video i needed to learn about paradise loss so instead of reading it i went to blinkist and read a summary of it you make fun of it but that's what they do well blinkist is non-fiction so i guess they're safe from paradise oh oh wait is that a fence oh wait no all right don't worry about the main antagonist as well as his relationship with jorel in three it shows us a key item for the plot later on but if you don't like this section that's fine i just think it's interesting that he doesn't he then goes oh okay okay okay glad we went over it if you don't care so yeah i'm thinking of everyone for just wasting a [ __ ] time oh [ __ ] yeah well like this video needed to be any longer than it already is too uh to do to bump that up there mel if i was a fan of cosmonaut and i was watching this video i'd be like you didn't debunk anything in there you just said that you didn't say anything yeah you just said you didn't like that he didn't like it but you don't actually care so it's okay which is funny we're moving through this video way faster because there's no arguments being made yet goes on to mention that the last third of this movie is nothing but action the last third of this movie is just blind mass destruction yeah that's and i understand what people say they get overloaded yeah with with just the non-stop destruction explosions and just like yeah yeah your brain can't really handle it all i think you lose the um this came up when we discussed uh mission impossible with ren how slowing down every now and then will actually help the pacing absolutely when it's just constantly it was just constant action like we need a breather and we don't really get that in this i'll tell you what the breather is when they show the graveyard of metropolis it's like it's fine you're like oh my you god to slow down i feel like i remember this distinctly like uncharted 2 has really great pacing after the massive train sequence that goes on for like an hour and it's just non-stop like uh action ramping up you have a really long time to just sort of ease up like there's an hour of just really calm exploration exploring these locations and puzzles and stuff before the action ramps up again one shot it's three it's just [ __ ] action all the time well it to to bolster your uncharted two points interesting because uh after the train wreck um there's a bit of like okay this is kind of intense but it's not as fast-paced as as the uh the train sequence itself is and then finally it slows down completely when you're in the village yeah no it's it's it's really we need time to slow down like batman v superman is another example of just as soon as the third act starts it doesn't stop um um i think i think the simplest way to translate this to somebody is the lows define the highs and vice versa we want them to recognize them and i think it's also worthwhile to note that like you can have something that is really like 24 is probably a good example that's a show that kind of is meant to like never let up but it does like there are times when things slow down you'll reference hardcore henry is like see that's non-stop it's like well actually there are several seeds at home really where he talks to people for a bit yeah so even hardcore henry isn't non-stop anyway it's funny they they even do that in wrestling like when there's like a long-ass pay-per-view it's like four hours long there's like it's like matches with no stakes or whatever so people can go imagine you're the guy this is my time to shine it's like all right that's the low stakes that's what he gives uh yeah mad max fury road has plenty of scenes that slow down and let the characters interact with each other die hard you know where john mclean is stuck in this in this tower that's taken over by terrorists he you know there's plenty of scenes that slow down and let us get to know these characters better and and process what's what's happening in this it's quite um quite a ride but um i would still categorize it as like i'm not [ __ ] on it as like it's broken because it's action for too long i'm just saying i understand when people say that they struggle to register everything anymore after about you know half an hour of buildings blowing up yeah it it's just kind of it's overload it's basically a 60 minute long dragon ball fight and it's not like this movie even has the cool action directing that snyder is known for it's literally just characters slamming into each other for an entire hour after a while you just become desensitized to it my eyes just glaze over as it keeps going and it keeps drawing out so the way you counted this if you were able is you you start trying to find how much of the fight changes how there's lots of in so someone described like locations new places new moves yeah that's how you counter it i'm curious how he's going to counter this because i don't think there's much you can do to counter this position it's pretty strong it's like congratulations cosmo this is this is a great bit of criticism from cosmonaut you did it right i mean well you have to understand the for cosmo this is great good job buddy a cosmo curve and less i always thought this was kind of a weird criticism considering that most of the movies in the genre are mostly made up of action really well no no no no no no no no we were this close to greatness anyone could go first that's fine there's nothing to say okay so i'm i'm just trying to think uh in iron man the film opens there's well no you don't need to do uh oh i'm assuming rags are saying this what about is them from um this guy you don't need to do what he's missed the argument so if i told you i can't stand this constant because there's two forms of criticism the action's too samey and it goes on for too long his response is action like this is in other stuff so first of all that wasn't what i said was wrong and secondly it doesn't matter if it's in other stuff that's not relevant no i thought that he said that like uh superhero films are mainly made up of action scenes like this well yeah that's what he says what about it that would be yeah like it wouldn't for all we know hates all [ __ ] superhero movies really hitting the point yeah it's not really interesting um what he should like i said the defense of this would have been no it's not actually simplistic battles it's it's uh and i mean i'm trying to think of what you could argue like there's a it is mainly they just hit each other and they they fly away right that's what happens yeah well the problem is like when it's zod and once that starts yeah it is mostly just bad even with the other ones though they punch he lays one of them once for a few seconds that's different yeah i guess but okay so yeah like you could like i could try and make a defense of this like see they go to this new place now look now they've had this interaction now they're fighting different people now the stakes are different let's do it for a good support the final fight it's like all right so why is this fight working so well constantly what you i mean the main thing is that the character stuff is on point but the big thing is that all of these heroes are leveraging their unique abilities to try and disable each other and like cap is cap is trying to basically interfere with tony you know killing uh bucky buck he's just trying to run away and iron man is trying to incapacitate uh cap and kill bucky and so that's reflected in like all of the moves that they keep using and then the balance shifts each time somebody lands a hit or like um and then just disabling slowly each of iron man's util uh things so that he can't kill him as efficiently yeah like there's a lot working there and just and and and i mean a good example is he is so angry tony is so angry that he tries to shoot a missile into [ __ ] bucky's face like with his hand right next to him yeah i think you could read a lot from how angry he is just by that whereas in this movie it's like i don't know you're both hitting each other you're both just punching each other a lot that's um with if i was directing this movie i'd be like we need to be creative and find ways of making this fight more entertaining than simply i throw you through building you throw me through buildings i think that'd be the big thing well you can have them more like an animal have them actually like when they land hits it can be it doesn't have to be you fly away it could be that you tank it and you look actually like hurt you trying to do counters and block i mean he's a soldier like zod should be able to do loads of [ __ ] instead of just punch yeah like uh the the warehouse scene in bvs you know it starts with like blowing a hole through the floor he jumps up he disables all the guns he ju he drops down he grabs a dude's gun he's forced him to shoot at his buddies causing everyone to duck down he so he's accounting for anyone else that might still be up he's doing all these different moves he slams one dude's head over it like like on a crate as he vaults over it and then throws that crate at someone with his grappling gun it's like it there's a point where he's fighting four dudes at a time that have surrounded him which uh you rarely see in batman movies where they account for multiple combatants trying to take him on at once and he manages to take them all out it's like there's a lot of really cool little moments in this one fight scene it's constantly shifting what is batman dealing with right now and how is he dealing with it i think what is it that they like the fact that batman can be shot and killed means that like yeah he does need to get rid of the guns and so and and like someone's probably shouting for that reason they're like why are you comparing a superman fight with a batman fight and it's like the vulnerability for superman i think the first one that should come to everyone's minds is he cares about civilians and so the fight can yeah leverage that yeah the [ __ ] yeah doesn't have to be internal yeah you can spend the fight with zod doing different things to really just [ __ ] the people of earth up and superman keeps stopping him countering him until he decides i have to kill him i can get in the process yeah but they don't do that they just have them punch each other through [ __ ] buildings over and over again until they land yeah oddly enough uh batman's punches in the warehouse fight feel a lot more meaningful than superman's punches against zod in their fight true they do they do because because again the sound mixing and just the way that uh the people he's punching are reacting to getting punches like that looks like that [ __ ] hurts well yeah because when when it's just people super people getting punched into buildings it's like i don't even understand how this registers for you whereas when it's a person getting punched in the face it's like getting thrown into i'll draw it back so yeah what happened here was cars were not sad too no variety in the fight went on for too long and his first count was well asked in other superhero movies he keeps drawing out and i care less and less i always thought this was kind of a weird criticism considering that most of the movies in the genre are mostly made up of action really what man of steel does differently is that it saves most of the action for the second half of the movie on the top what a weirdo saves it what a weird argument not the one i'd make but uh hey you're the one who's trying to defend i don't even know how to stand for superman hey at least it saves his action for the late porsche it's like isn't that kind of just bolstering what uh cosmonaut said like wants it out for good pacing yeah instead of half of the movie has no action and then half of the movie is just all action weird counter but yeah it's exhausting very stilted i had a headache when we were finished with watching this movie i think most people do even if they don't admit action let's talk about the level of destruction in the film so marcus what do you think and the destruction in this film is borderline apocalyptic this is the [ __ ] yeah don't forget who calls out he's completely right don't forget who causes a lot of it yeah i'd say there's a detail when talking about how much this breaks your scale too but yeah you've got the um metropolis extinction of an entire race yeah uh threatened extinction of humans and then if you consider iron man's big payoff is like a highway um iron man 2's is like this dome where there's loads of drones getting blown up it's like you could argue it's a jump up and then avengers is obviously defending new york city as much as buildings get um hit by certain things at certain points everyone's doing everything they can to prevent the damage from happening and of course it's a huge scale movie but then you bump it up as you go along in scale i don't this one is just um i honestly think the part of the problem is the lack of recognition for the damage because yeah yeah everyone's very upset in uh that makes civil war so good that too yeah um like again a key thing that i think a lot of movies tend like when you have cap running into a room to kill a bunch of uh you know chitari when they have a couple of humans you know huddled into a corner meanwhile someone's bringing down the mothership or flying a nuke into the mother you're like oh we get to have the personal specific fighting the caring about the people involved while also dealing with the big threat oh man that's character relevant stuff how about how about inspiring homecoming when he fights those uh those bank robbers and they blow up mr what del mar place yeah something like that yeah yeah and then he uh it's just one oh [ __ ] i i got i gotta go in there and make sure that everyone's okay yeah it's just one restaurant of a guy that we met basically one time it's like it's not just the destruction it is that it's carrick category-less destruction it's like is this what's happening is everyone dying like why does the film not even i feel more for one sandwich shop than i do for six buildings collapsing because my brain is just mush at that point you need people you need to show the people well because so someone's gonna be like wait are you forgetting lawrence fishbein trying to rescue that girl from the rebel um i don't know what that i do and that was a very personal thing with only three people involved it's a shame they shat on him but you know if that was you could argue that's more impactful if only we had scenes where superman was seeing people that were trapped in the rubble and was having to save them while fighting zod that could be really investing and engaging you know it's the the girl he was constantly trying to kill people and superman was constantly trying to stop him yeah and that girl is the one who said he saved us so like it doesn't really capture what we're talking about at all those people saved themselves at luckily despite superman's recklessness despite suit man yep well she says he saved us in relation to him destroying the the ship that's terraforming the earth but yes i mean well this is the thing that's what i miss about these this stupid universe there was a conversation there we never got to have it though civil war has that conversation now this is good yeah when it comes to stuff like this it's it's often the intimacy that makes it memorable and important to us not the sheer scale of it yeah which is why when your mom dies it's a really impactful thing and it's life-changing but when there's a mudslide in namibia that kills a village you don't give a [ __ ] i mean isn't this isn't that the quote like when one person dies it's a tragedy when like a hundred thousand people die it's a statistic it's stalin and so there's a lot of things what would have get that big becomes really hard for us to even sort of compar you know like it becomes hard for us to even understand those numbers it's uh it's part of a criticism of civil war which i think is actually you flip it around is actually a point of praise people like why is it that tony is more invested in the accords after someone tells him someone they liked died in in the situation like well when you're a superhero doing all these kinds of things like yeah people are probably dying and you can get numbers at the end of the day and be like damn that sucks but when someone a crying mother comes up to you and tells you about her son who's doing humanitarian work and died because of your recklessness that's probably going to hit you a little harder it could do it could not do but it's what makes it very personal he was already you get a face a name and some information about the person that died and then you know that that one could be representative of a lot more than just that one a lot of people you just did that too like damn if there's 5 000 people who've died on my watch as we're fighting and this is just one person what about all those other people what what are their stories yeah so i don't know i feel like we've really bolstered cosmonauts side right now love to see how this guy does superman is going through metropolis without any regard for civilians yes yes yes yes yes yes wow he's just getting down he's getting basic information the reason south paul's orgasm is because that's probably the most valid point cosmonauts made i'm i'm i'm i'm proud of him okay he's finally doing it there's actually a really easy answer to why there's so much destruction because there would be wait wait oh no but that wasn't the criticism you are you are putting the cart before the horse and that's not even a defense of what he said yeah that wasn't what he said he said it's about superman not caring about it whether or not there would be destruction when two super beings punch each other through a city it's not the question that's interesting you can ask why they're punching in the city but well different questions maybe he'll go on to explain it isn't a super passion our godlike beings fighting each other would cause a lot of destruction if you look at the anime movies or cartoons where superman no he's using the same clip it's the same out of the context clip of him fighting shazam no no no no no this is this okay this is an empty city made by lex luthor and this fight's being orchestrated to make superman look bad that is the point of this luther or luthor i think i think both of them are valid but i say luther yeah okay from me yeah luther lex luthor whatever the the whole point is this is a completely different context than what we have in in man of steel well and they take it out of context just to defend man of steel if but let's pretend for a second that this reference is superman throwing shazam through a bunch of buildings to fight him i would have the same issue i'd be like why are you tossing him through a bunch of buildings superman so this doesn't address it for me and if you want to be like well it's accurate to the comics like shut the [ __ ] up and answer my question it's the same thing as this other bad thing all right i win moving on man fights it almost always ends up destroying multiple buildings and parts of the city so when that's shown by the way you have to be more specific than this if superman grabs somebody and tosses them into a building versus being tossed into a building himself those two things i have different commentary for right showing me clips of like oh see the battle is getting a little out of control and superman can't actually do anything to stop it is different from superman having the ability to toss them up into space and choosing not to also i just want to highlight according to the person that told me about the context of this thing no civilians were even hurt during this fight and we know for a fact that people had to have been hurt during the man of steel fights i guess i guess the important piece of information is do these guys know that this is a simulation or something yeah but like do they okay uh oh uh no i i i don't know the answer to that question what i mean is if batman if superman and shazam don't know that this is a fake city then they're culpable even if they didn't kill anyone what's the thing i don't know the context ultimately but it doesn't matter because it's the [ __ ] on the matter live action also most of the damage caused in the movie isn't even superman's fault but marcus thinks that most imagine saying that most of it is his fault i didn't kill most of the people who died that's called an admission of guilt yeah it's like oh she killed some thanks i take issue with that with you ending lives i didn't end all of them okay thank god he didn't answer a question i mean i mean hitler didn't kill all the jews yeah he left to feel like you're in there yes it is and he sees superman as more of a war criminal this makes it even weirder in future movies when the characters in this world see this is the this is what the movie should have been about because kind of yes you look at all the footage everyone would have and you have them in court and you're like what the [ __ ] were you doing why did you do all of this you killed so many people superman would be like i saved your planet and you'd be like at what cost superman what cost well i mean this is save them like you could have saved it better exactly exactly which is what civil war is about yeah that you could have saved the world better it's like oh well i saved this like you did but like did you need to crush all these people yeah they don't really could you imagine using this logic in the real world like you blow up a building that you believe there are a bunch of insurgents in it's like dude there are but this was like a hospital too there were a bunch of like innocent people in there it's like yeah but i killed the insurance but there were some guilty ones too like yes you did but also a bunch of people who weren't insurgents like what were you doing it's like hey look i stopped a terrorist attack it's like an emergency another whole controversy of drone strikes it's like well i mean that's the controversy of why we have rules on war you can't just do whatever you want because you're set you know fighting for the the right side or like trying to you know save the world like you know it's repelling like nazis try to keep this civilized yeah yes that is our goal but we can't do that by like blowing up innocent people you know the first thing he does when he is publicly revealed is destroy the [ __ ] city he destroys the local 7-eleven local sears and so um to bolster him again the shot he showed was superman like pushing zod down into that uh wherever it was like train station place 7-eleven state no no that place the other one where he breaks his name he pushes on down into that place um there are several moments like that i think the most damning and a lot of people don't like to count this one but you have to is when he lasered the ship and the ship crashed through all of those different buildings yeah yeah like you understand gravity right you know that if you destroy a ship it it comes down said if you destroy this ship you destroy krypton and a whole bunch of buildings about your planet is [ __ ] hell whose side are you on i just don't think this is a good place think my favorite part of batman v superman is that it makes it makes feel mental because filmmaker says it's three mostly empty buildings but what you see in batman v superman is it goes through like a good seven or eight billion i think that was totally perfect how about the fact that superman's got super hearing and uh as zod is lasering the the way an enterprise is placed a couple floors above them is bruce wayne's employee jack who is praying because he knows he's about to die and the fact that superman apparently doesn't hear him doesn't save him that's because superman knows he's the real god let me tell you what the reasoning will be from twin perfect and tex and whoever the other guy was it was superman's first day on the job all right yeah he's not he's not perfect do you want everyone to be perfect southpaw is always saying i i like the idea of this whole it's my first day thing could you like imagine if you counted it with twin perfectly we have i know i know but it's just it just amuses me a lot it's my first day can you imagine if you're like a mcdonald's it's like all right so what you do is you flip the burgers all right you just wait until it's there and then and then you flip it and then they just grab a bowl of grease and pour it all i work at mcdonald's get me some slack yeah that's not quite that's not because you're making me think about it now it's like that's not even how you categorize like if someone who's a veteran worker makes a mistake they go oh i can't have no excuse it's not my first day it's like well no you just made an a it was an accident everyone has accidents yeah yeah like you don't go oh it's my first day so it's chill like that usually happens for stuff you just don't know how it works superman knows how humans work he knows that superman knows how life works yeah [ __ ] excuse me superman it may be his first day wearing the superman costume or being called superman or whatever but this is not his first day on earth using his powers to save people we see him do it multiple times earlier in the film he does it with the school bus full of children that his dad says maybe he should have let drown he does it on the oil drilling platform with the guys that are about to burn to death and saves their lives he's been a hero for a while and the local ihop and that kind of domestic terrorism would never be forgiven uh probably right yeah he would in the real world they would be like what the [ __ ] was if they had enough yeah they wouldn't it's yeah it's not domestic terrorism but it's uh i'd say it's gross negligence yeah yeah i think it'd say it'd be something like that yeah yeah no he is responsible for smashing zod through a 7-eleven at factory i'll give you that but that was superman losing his temper because his mother was threatened it doesn't matter it doesn't matter if he lost his temper it doesn't [ __ ] matter if he lost his temper also i killed my wife because i got so [ __ ] fed up with her [ __ ] he's like all right innocent then he leaves his mother with two other kryptonians this falls apart and betty he's angry uh it's the ultimate cure-all for any problem he was just angry rag's points was ambitious and another point on top this is not the only instances there are several more most importantly being the ship one i think there's three there's there's three people threatening my family member what am i gonna do i'm gonna grab one of them and i'm gonna like carry him far far away and leave the other two people with my family member great i can't well at 16 don't believe this if the argument is he's acting irrationally because she's threatened then i guess he's right but that doesn't help anything you know is is he concerned about his mother's safety is that the explanation not a justification well if he's as far as for his mother's safety then he should just not [ __ ] carry him far away from where she is leaving him leaving her with two other hostile aliens don't know man like if a guy's got a gun to my mum's head and i just spray an assault rifle all over the room and kill a bunch of children he'd be like well i was angry it's like that doesn't really explain it it's weird i don't think you realize why that doesn't explain it you just think that you can do anything no but really what was the real reason i wanted to protect my bob you're like yeah but that wasn't really it's my first time shooting a gun look at all the blood what's crazy about that does not follow yeah i think it would be a way better scene if let's say this isn't zod zod is somewhere else he takes the one that's threatening his mum and just like shouts at them while he fires them all the way up into orbit and just shoots them out and they can't fly so they're just [ __ ] and he's like furious but he doesn't save them he just lets them die we'd be like first of all excellent use of not getting any other civilians in trouble secondly is that the correct way to deal with someone like this should you give them the punishment that is floating through space until they just die from whatever you know what i mean we'd have a lot more to talk about that's a lot more interesting and you could argue he did it because he was really angry is this something superman would do i don't know instead we got this where he drags zod through a whole bunch of civilian areas because he's upset at the the potential of a human life being taken it's like good job you think you can threaten my mother ugh ooh bad film didn't do but that was also kind of the point more on that later but the rest of the smallville fight is him trying to fight off two equally powerful and better trained kryptonians well sorry mate they shouldn't be but they are um as twin perfect conceded to us there is at least one instance in this fight where he has the chance to move the fight away and he just doesn't um we would argue there's a lot more than one but uh yeah even people who defend this film would say that clark was not making the best choices in uh in this fight it's really just him getting his ass handed to him for most of the fight how is that his fault he didn't throw himself to that bank he didn't take down the helicopter or jet he but he did throw them into the train y'all he didn't yeah he also where was he during all of these things happening when he could have clearly prevented it because it shows him stopping one of them from jumping on the jet where was he he just disappears from the film for a while also did kind of a shitty job with uh saving the people that were in the jet in the helicopter he saves the one guy that felt that falls out of helicopter that guy like dies immediately afterwards basically [Music] let's move on to metropolis that was a story about the world engine while superman was on the other side of the planet that was his choice yeah it was his choice he didn't go for the superman for the metropolis one he went for the one over the indian ocean where there are no people yep it's like a lot of only disabled one to stop it and he chose to go to the one that wasn't the highly populated city you know why there was no scary snake thing that defended the metropolis one from the ship and so you can conclude that superman would have been able to go straight through it and then go straight to the second one who punched it yeah even even if um he went to the metropolis one first and disabled that one and the world engine was still going he can he's super fast he can fly he can make his way around the earth in no time so uh yeah this is also his fault thank you for reminding me video defending man like hooray you know you know the slogan with great power comes great responsibility well superman's got like the greatest power ever so he's got some pretty like his responsibility is going to be heavier than say captain america's who probably can't do anything in this situation but he would probably not bulletproof he's not a cap can certainly fight off against chatauri warriors and whatnot but i don't think he stands a chance against kryptonians nope so he doesn't show up to metropolis until after zod's followers are all sucked through the phantom zone thank you for showing the clip where he [ __ ] downs the ship and crashes through all this you did it you did it you helped your you helped your video movie and then the final battle starts all of this damage is from the world engine when superman wasn't by the way superman also helped orchestrate a plan to create a black hole over metropolis it worked perfectly well even around and then from here they destroy a few more buildings a parking garage a satellite before finally crash landing most it's just like the twin perfect video they're very casual about the discussion on this like incidence of damage sure several i guess maybe the city wasn't caused by superman because he wasn't even around for it now about superman is a hero in future films even weirder in future movies when the characters in this world see superman as a hero i can yeah understand see how something would still be this is the failing of the movie is that we're kind of left confused on superman's position in the world and they show us lots of things to support essentially both like you've got these people worshipping him and then you've got batman like [ __ ] on him constantly then you've got the people protesting him so you kind of just like wha what is what is the current thought on superman you have the media questions like should we have a superman should superman be able to can i just have two people talk about man of steel in universe like what happened in it please we're only including bb justice league does not count in this movie he's seen war as an ally because he's the only one who stands a chance against zod and his followers and that's only after the military starts shooting at him before then they also consider him a threat and even at the end they're still uncertain of course they are the [ __ ] destroyed metropolis yeah the dude is like unstoppable and he's clearly okay with not minimizing damage we know you won't one day act against america's interests great quality up in kansas general i hate that how do i know you're telling the truth yeah but it doesn't even matter like has anyone in america ever gone against american interests like nope that's impossible no there's never been a woman from the convention charged with treason what the [ __ ] response is that i'm about as american as it is in kansas that scene ends with him saying i'm gonna do [ __ ] the way i want to do it it's like oh yeah you can't control me so don't even try to watch me basically so the answer is yes i may very well act against america's interests because i'm going to do what i want to do okay good to know that is not reassurance yeah yeah really concerning if anything let's see how people feel about him until the next movie and the biggest plot point for bbs is that most of the people don't see him as a hero and reject him including most people not even clear yeah we don't know we see some protesters but it seems like the whole point of bvs is that or sorry like uh justice league is that people are really like bummed out and upset when superman's dead like the whole point is hope has died yeah yeah at the very end and don't even bring hope he's dead because of superman the world's greatest detective being unable to in any way piece together superbad is a good person because he's a [ __ ] idiot also well the the chats as well pushing him over the edge oh good ride including bruce wayne it's only after he sacrifices himself to kill doomsday that people actually accept him he mentions that he hates that superman killed zod this again is something i never understood what people hated and to top it off it ends with superman murdering zod which is just you didn't murder zombies very wrong i've already yeah i don't think this guy wow that's it is very very but we our argument is like why didn't you [ __ ] do this sooner and cosmos like god this is murder um tell me man this so here's the problem wait wait wait wait wait didn't cosmonauts say that um it was framed as a bad thing when anakin skywalker executes count dooku but that was a bad thing for them remember he's arguing from a faithful standpoint not from a moral one yeah it's it's it's nice yeah he does say murder well i didn't say he was right i just said what he's gonna say um so yeah the the interesting thing here right is to the person that says superman should never kill i'd be like we can have that conversation but we can't have it here because this superman has already killed many people like i so now the argument has to be you would never kill the last kryptonian this superman i'd be like i don't know he killed a bunch of unborn kryptonians i don't think like i don't think yeah he basically condemned the race to not even be able to exist he literally says krypton had its chance yep so all we're left with is uh would couldn't you have done something else it's like i mean maybe but get the job done right like this guy's [ __ ] crazy i don't know like the idea because some people say he could have choked him out it's like possible yeah i don't i don't know the biology and i don't know if it was something he definitely could have done but uh i don't see myself being against this choice if i was in his brain and he suggests should i break this guy's neck i prove it like oh yeah i guess so he's about to kill more people and you've already destroyed i mean at one point yeah this guy's super strong you might not be able to beat him later on and he has clearly stated his intentions for wanton destruction and murder i think it's a good idea to kill him and so yeah i have questions for both of these people i guess but with cosmo i'd be like you took issue with this but not with all of the other murdering hippies or killing you've been doing interesting clown on this forest so i'm not gonna repeat myself too much if you're strong enough to snap his [ __ ] neck and leave a shock wave afterwards then why don't you just aim his face somewhere else he didn't even try after this i mean actually so it's weird because cosmonauts making good points that he makes a bad point and then he goes right back and making good points this is such a roller coaster i mean it well you cannot it's that good but it's fine i'd say it's half of a point because to what end right if you move his face away and he just tries to move it back you know it is an extremely destructive volatile weapon that you're just putting in a different direction now there's come to a point where you just got to [ __ ] end your throat seeing him just those two on the ground fighting and he's like stop it let me look at him that's what he brings into question i just want to see the beautiful babies well while the [ __ ] family just stands [Laughter] all right let's hear the counters and who superman is as a character but i want to talk about the zod neck break a little bit more how else could he have finished the fight and yes he probably could have turned his head away from the family but they have been fighting and no progress has been made and zod made it clear that he will kill as many humans i mean my issue isn't even like i go further than that why didn't he take so long to kill him yeah that's yeah that's our issue maybe we will you got a sad guy you've got to kill him we're black killed on this topic you know we'll go way further than anyone goes too long to kill him yeah how about that how do you uh how does heat vision affect kryptonians so if um superman were to try to i guess i mean this is going to have the same effect as breaking zod's neck just using your heat vision on his head um and instantaneously killing him and that doesn't work it's like oh wait so heat vision doesn't work on kryptonians then what if i just like put my hand over his eyes well you say we already know that the heat vision didn't even work on the non-superpowered kryptonians remember no it didn't it didn't work in there it did well wait yeah it worked in that it anointed it but it didn't like it didn't pierce their armor inconclusive sure i'll give you that um it might do something but we don't quite know yet it isn't pleasant you're worth testing me what if you um hold their eyelids down that's the thing is like i think that it would be worth like testing out in the scenario where you've got zod in the headlock and you you've managed to stall him from lasering some people to death it's like could this work could i do this and then you like you try it and it doesn't work it's like okay that won't work so i can i guess safely uh laser myself i suppose but then if it does work it's like whoa this is really powerful why didn't i do this this whole time i'm on team sodpel he should have killed him faster took too long yeah yeah he adopted oh by by the way this would be my evidence him saying i'm gonna kill everybody this is also a criticism crazy person this is him explicitly stating his intentions and you know he has the power to carry it out and he doubt right tries to do it you've got to remember the defense of this well zod is a soldier he needs to that's what [Music] this is an opportunity to put it into it also this isn't something he did happily like in the richard donner superman he begs not to stop kills him he lets out a cry and sobs after yeah it's really weird because he cares more facade than he did for the embryos but whatever the people the zod killed all the people who died the sound of wailing and death all around him he cares more about zod than eddie would he killed it's it's really strange it's the one person you should probably okay with words this isn't that he wanted to do but it shows that he's willing to make a hard decision to save others oh god that's really tough yeah it's really hard to say i'm glad he's willing to i'm glad he's willing to wander vision this [ __ ] and make a big sacrifice for everybody i think it's so good thrilled to hear it what a superhero what a hard decision to kill someone that's in the process of trying to kill other people that's such a hard decision to make hard call when you've got a guy that's like maliciously trying to kill innocent people he gets worse the more you detail it it's like what's his motivation he just wants to kill people oh yeah just to just to spite cal-l like then the richard donner superman he begs not to stop kills him then lets out cry and sobs afterwards this isn't something that he wanted to do but it shows that he's willing to make a hard decision to save others this is also superman's siding with humanity by taking out the only other member of his race he's like no mobar no siding with human humanity how nice of him to side this is what i mean it's like someone punches you in the face this says like i did this because i'm your friend you're like i don't i don't follow like you're like oh well you know can you be my enemy instead i just if this is what friendship is i don't know yeah who needs enemies [ __ ] if ross from civil war was in this universe imagine the [ __ ] montage he could make he's like yeah but he sends them down to show the collateral here there's this super person guy what's going on what what's the story with this dude you know how oh screaming and then cap says turn it off because wanda's getting really uncomfortable um the equivalent would be screaming and the superman is just smiling while looking at the screen it's like i saved the world i did all of it really well i chose that guide and ross is like oh i don't think the point is coming through no like at best superman's like okay that's enough and ross is like no there's more there's a lot more we're not even 10 of the way through yeah he's like look at the video file suit man this is 10 hours i've already got like just the first three seconds yeah why do you send transfer for this one his race stuff and kind could survive next he says the best superman stories are the ones that explore humanity the best superman stories focus on his humanity because that's the key i mean to me it'll just be like it's probably very character driven and they're going to be very i'd say it's subjective but yeah i think you could make some pretty compelling arguments for it to making us like him he was raised on earth he was raised by humans and his full life of experiences up to this point is that of a human on you don't even need the comments to make these arguments i completely agree no we we made this argument in the man of steel effect movies he's correct yep what one to one with us earth he's a human first a human that just so happens to also be an alien and this is something that i have never seen written well in a superman movie this is interesting to me interesting um never oh yeah i was gonna say ever did he watch the original i don't know if let's say the original does a pretty good job superman's a really good guy he really wants to defend people and he's uh maybe he's referring to something specific like test i don't know i don't know if those are weird i need him to qualify but i doubt he will in this video you know to me because this whole movie is about clark kent finding himself people go into this movie assuming that superman is going to have all these traits right off the bat that isn't this superman yet this is a journey he's like 30. no no no i hate this argument he's going to become that superman you he doesn't value human life is what you're saying he's going to learn to that's [ __ ] crazy generally if you don't learn to value human life by your 30s you're a really [ __ ] up horrible person but it's not even true we know that he does this it's a contradiction we're highlighting in the film this man is not like shown to be the um i'm trying to think of what is like a what is like a superhero character who just doesn't care about people uh it's hard to find a reference who doesn't care about people i mean i suppose um deadpool an interesting even he cares about him in a utility center i was gonna say an interesting one not necessarily one to one is um you guys remember i think it's in the i can't remember if it's in the comic or not well i haven't read it so i wouldn't know but um dr manhattan he um they asked him why he seems very apathetic yeah like the whole point is he's evolved so far past that he he's doing it because he knows that's what he should do rather than that's how he feels like he doesn't actually feel for the human beings and they ask him why did he like explode a lot of the enemies in different scenarios instead of just taking their guns away or doing whatever else and when he's faced with that question he doesn't even know the answer because he's just like i don't know i stopped them he doesn't he doesn't like the idea of blowing up their guns versus blowing up them there's not really much of a difference and by the way someone's probably pissed of me misrepresenting dr manhattan it's not the point it's to represent an idea which is not in this film the man of steel clock he very much values human life to the point where his dad is like whoa your identity bro but then that doesn't sink in at all because he does the thing with the oil tanker um and then so in the film he's shown he cares about people to the point where he will uh [ __ ] up his own life according to his dad right he cares about him a lot but then in the in the last act it's kind of like wait wait clock wait what did you look over there look at all those screaming people what have you done and he's like huh no i don't know la la la la la highlighting i'm confused so saying well he's going to become super bad it's like that's a worthless [ __ ] argument the version superman that people are more familiar with this whole movie is a learning experience for him and it's actually a more human version learning about your history and the costume you're gonna wear in your relationship to the american government as you save people's lives is not the same as you let people die it's like yeah but he's going to learn to not do that it's like what are you talking about oh goody it's not even that he let them die like knowingly and that he was upset about it in the in future he'll try better in this film he doesn't even seem to acknowledge it i'm sure he knows this is yeah that's that's really just not mentioned this is [ __ ] that any 20 year old that uh reads a superman comic would think like they would ask themselves what they would do if they had superman's powers like at this point we've got superman who's in his 30s now he should already know what he would be doing in these situations given that he's actually been in situations where people's lives are in peril and he uses his powers to save them again it's just like he's he's already been a hero for so long yeah this to me feels like a very sneaky deviation you're like why is it that he puts so many human beings in danger it's like well because he hasn't become the superman you know yet it's like no i'm talking about the superman jesus christ what is he now version of clark he knows he's different and knows about his parents too he feels lost with his place in the world and has been seeking answers it doesn't explain his reckless nature toward human lives stop not doing anything for your argument right now but the whole movie he shows us that he isn't infallible from little things like taking some clothes from someone's car that is not the same no i i feel like we have to now we could talk about scale for a little bit [ __ ] it okay so captain marvel's stealing a guy's bike for uh offering her a ride versus superman needs clothes and he steals clothes off of a clothesline guys how expensive do these clothes look compared to a motorcycle i just like i just i'm baffled like that you would reference this there's nothing whether or not you're willing to steal an article of clothing has nothing to do whether or not you're willing to let people die and not care about it yeah these are these are on two completely different like planes of impact and importance well you see rags it comes under the umbrella of he's not infallible what thing yeah it's an interesting umbrella you've got that thing thing done car instead of asking for them or destroying this douchebag's truck that's a terrible scene yeah that's a really big issue you know there may be an argument to be like you have to understand clock is a sociopath in this film okay i think there's lots of evidence for this like this yeah i think it'd be easier to make that case than the case that he really cares this scene belongs in the boys this is something that the homelander would totally do um this is not superman though it's not even the [ __ ] clark kent that we see in this movie who seems concerned initially about saving the people on the oil rig he has the flashback showing like his uh his inclination to save those kids and the bus that maybe he should have let them drown it's just like man this is uh this seems a bit out of character with the clark kent that we see in the past and in like one of the first scenes in the movie it means that marcus is in a simple scene of clark washing up on shore after saving people in the beginning of the movie he doesn't have any clothes and he just sees some clothes lying around clark finds the unattended clothing outside he takes them and he continues on his way but what if we take the opportunity to have a cute character moment that's specific to superman i personally don't think clark kent would steal clothes even if he really needed them i agree i mean i might thank god this video from him before i know what he says after this maybe let it say that's well let it play okay i can see him awkwardly going up to the door and asking for the clothes this would be a cute chance to have some fun dialogue showing that clark is nice almost to a fault no no you said fun we don't do that here um either i think that someone is capable of doing either i don't think that yeah like the idea that it's like i'm too good to steal socks and a t-shirt like i mean no i guess i guess the logic is that at least it gives you something that you can do you can do something with could you not counter by saying that is not this clock though this clock's weird well that's sort of the point of the discussion in the first place i think that's the point he's trying to make is like we'll do it differently i think it would have benefited the film greatly for his character and for just the tone to make him endearing yeah uh like if cosmo said this to me i should be like oh well yeah but we have to change all the scenes right with clark because he's [ __ ] he's not really in all of them he's like a dow a little piece of [ __ ] but i i think i understand the sentiment then that like if we did that sort of approach with him throughout all these scenes and that those scenes as much as their um plot relevant him was like oh how does he get the clothes but we can also show character through them it's like yeah i agree with that um that's film efficiency but the funny thing is as he stands in this movie do you think he would do the one or the other and do you think it's more valuable to do the other i think in this movie i feel like you could do that yeah i think you could do either and if we can do either we may choose the one that actually makes them look like a better person i think that's probably worth it yeah it just it services his character it's it's a good for tonality and what's come before and gets us to let him know him i mean he could be he could even like start to do it and then stop like maybe he signs yeah and then he looks even goes back and puts them up and then he goes back to that funny like marvel where he the door opens and it's an old lady and she's like oh my god and he's like hello ma'am or or i don't know like he leaves a note or something or come up with something yeah he's like sorry i needed these or i'd say now we're in the format of just yeah i like it like we could make everything i would like a different movie yeah basically a different movie would be great uh also give me just a second i need to get a dream here i would say the scene happens early on enough that you're uh it's just kind of establishing what this version of clark is like and he is uh a lot less moral than christopher reeve superman would be um i don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to show that this is what he does uh but i i of course would prefer yeah you know what make this version of clark a little bit more endearing why not that's kind of where i was at i was like i think you could do both of them but i definitely prefer because it could be a reference for something you'd be like remember when he did the thing with the clothes with asking for permission and stuff it's like that's clear that they're trying to get across to you that this character isn't just a [ __ ] crazy man at the same time like stealing the clothes themselves is like it just seems a lot a lot less consequential than many of the other things that he does in this movie well to to go from mass uh killing like genocide to hey he's not infallible all right he steals clothes like what i mean like if i'm washing my clothes and i'm i'm drying them out on a clothesline outside and someone steals them because they need my clothes like well should i'm gonna have to buy some new clothes that's inconvenient but um it's not like they stole my car and that's the thing if i knew that the person was like super raggedy and just washed up and they took my t-shirt and socks or something i probably i'd probably be like hmm well i hope that you know i guess include a couple shots of the old lady in the house she sees this you know guy walking up to her clothes line and like and but like you know sees that she that he steals her clothes like her clothes off the clothesline and she's like yeah whatever you do well there's just so many different [ __ ] ways you could execute um i was just thinking just in mata for a second like the the people who defend these films they think the people who attack them are like idiots who didn't understand it and made shitty points that's all i have to say about these videos that we've seen they're like really shitty counterpoints and so you just you just like is this all it is is it just two sides that ignore each other forever would this be applicable to any other sections of argument that happen on the internet i saw someone um commenting on the twin perfect debate saying like this for them after all the other ones has proven that like discussing media with people who disagree with you is almost pointless it's like damn well hello greedo would agree with you um like like we've just had so many instances where it hasn't been pointless though so i'm like i'm not really worried about that if you have someone who just can't uh can't address like two different conflicting pieces of information they refuse to it's less so like damn conversation has failed us it's more so that person has uh some stuff to do some thinking to do maybe they'll come back one day we're all conduits for information being from these different media we can only express what we saw and how we collate all of that information and so we can fail or succeed at different points you know if you're in an aggressive call with a bunch of people you disagree with maybe you're just not encouraged to concede on anything but maybe yeah i mean i like having a decent amount of time you're like it's just been planted i wonder if maybe over time someone like twin perfect might be like you know movies aren't quite as good as i thought yeah i mean i like having conversations with people about this sort of stuff sometimes they're disingenuous sometimes they're not i find out which ones are disingenuous i'm like all right i'm gonna spend less time with you i'm gonna spend more time with someone that can uh engage in a discussion with me in good faith you know we've had plenty of instances of people's minds being changed on movies uh no that doesn't happen didn't uh did what does ren's reviews think of mission possible fallout these days um been a while since i've spoken to him uh i don't think he like loves the movie or anything but he at least can see that that's not badly written oh there you go and perfect we haven't gotten there yet let us let us continue with how it's okay that he did mass killings because he took a [ __ ] movie introduced to clark kent we see him attempt to stand up to a guy who's harassing a waitress clark then gets bullied by the man and gets so embarrassed that he goes outside and does this to his truck when nobody is it's not about embarrassment no no no it's he didn't do it because he was embarrassed he did it because he's spiteful more so yeah he wanted to get back at the guy and so he did it in a way that would destroy his livelihood i don't know that i care about the category of it it's just to me it's like vengeance yeah it is yeah there's a lot of stuff like if i was in his position i sure as hell wouldn't have done that it's incredibly petty especially given the craftsmanship that would be involved in getting i don't think i think this goes past petty yeah i think this is past pettiness yeah because this would take this would take some time to do right it's so it's like yeah you would have to make sure no one saw him he'd have to go he's like slowly driving the the logs through the truck making a little noise as possible so that you know when you lift it up and uh like i actually started to wonder how he would have done this because well i i remember when we were watching some like convenience i'm like how did how did no one notice i'm doing this oh well that that comes in a sec first of all let's figure out how like so maybe he takes some logs off lifts the truck up by flying he doesn't know how to fly yet um um like lifts the truck up and then stabs a log through from the bottom it's a weird one and no matter how he does it he can like make a [ __ ] ton of noise he can like jump up pretty high right yeah so maybe i it's just i think when we were watching this live and we we did our efap uh movies for it we were explaining some of the things that would have been much better for the film that he would have done instead um not difficult to come up with some things in that regard it's uh and here's the thing this is this is where you could show so you have the close thing let's have a superman who's he's a good guy but he's not great no he's a good guy he'll he'll still close he'll you know do little things and maybe he'll you know if someone drops a 20 bill it's like hey maybe i just take that 20 for myself you know since they don't notice it little things but the big stuff like when he's going to this route he's like that's a bit too far like you you see he's got a line you know he's not a saint but he's got a line that you can explore during this [ __ ] 17-hour opening for this film you got plenty of time clearly for as much i guess that's the thing too for how much time they put into this aspect of the movie worrying are you seeing that you would expect to get a really super well developed uh character after all this time you spend with him but it's just it's just a mess this is pretty [ __ ] sinister clark kent doesn't use exactly i like the word sinister actually yeah it's very you look at it you're like good way to describe it yeah what is what are the implications of this you know well in ways like this if you thought this was a dick move that's because it was again no no no i mean it's a difference yeah this is dick move double plus yeah this is deckard pluses um big move dick move is tripping a person that's about to walk past you well spitting in this exact way above that i like the idea that if you put a bomb under someone's car and blow it up it's like yeah dick move okay yeah he's not addressed the important part which is like you understand the mechanics of this like he went out this was after the the confrontation was over he went out there and he meticulously yeah no one else noticed none of that because what we would want to see is something like he clenches his fist after this guy does what he does and then the fist releases and then he turns around and walks away maybe he smiles yeah maybe he smiles pats him on the shoulder we know that he wants to maybe he gently pushes him back onto his seat nice little hurt uh rip the driver door out of the the truck and then rip the steering wheel out nah i wouldn't do that again i wouldn't that's still too far yeah i mean it's because he's not as far as what he did to the guy's truck i mean it's it's better again but this this is a key element here and i think um cap went over it with when he was talking about like the keying of the car if he just walked outside and punctured his four tires for like this let's just say he has a car um i would still be like oh that's i don't know it doesn't feel right like in terms of a response it feels much more appropriate to have um had a good line of dialogue to respond with or to show like you know the guy pushes him and he falls back he's not clever yeah like superman it's not like he's a dweeb or a loser who's getting back in the way that he can you know where you're like ah hey the little guy he got back at him and that way he can't face him head-on in strength but he could you know be guileful and clever and he could do underhanded stuff behind the other guy's back to get back at him you know but superman is superman he feels weird he's yeah uh i don't know how best to explain it but i would prefer to see him be the bigger man it's just a dude that's sexually harassing a waitress like just drag him out of the restaurant which yeah you could do that which you could do easily without even hurting him effortlessly yeah grab him by his shirt and just that's the thing that could be the comedy part of it where it's so effortless for clark to do this and the guy is struggling and he can't like he everyone's kind of like what the [ __ ] this dude is strong as [ __ ] and clark is just gently taking him outside and just letting go once he's out the door and if zach is desperate to see this man suffer it's like what if you have him as like a i'm such a [ __ ] strong dude and you're such a pathetic dude goes to headbutt him or something and then he knocks himself out and falls over that would be good yeah self-inflicted yeah yeah dude it's so easy so easy i often say writing is tough not all of it every part cut cut to a little reaction shot from clark where he just uh kind of like yeah that just happened yeah well maybe if you want to make him smarmy why such a good guy that he picks the guy up and puts him back in his seat yeah yeah i think that would be cute god it's not hard it's not hard to just ride a nice guy superman it's easy to write likable people because we know what kind of people we like yeah just write somebody you'd like to have it's sort of just self-explanatory like how do i make someone likeable well what would you like them to do because what we're doing right now is like like a boardroom for writing scenes and stuff you just have zach is with us he's like i like your ideas guys i do i do what if we have it so that he just leaves and everyone's like oh you know he's not gonna do anything about it okay but later we reveal he's impaled his truck onto several logs like zach are you high well we would all be like what's the punch line what's happening here the punchline what you mean the punch line is that he's jesus ah it all makes sense and if he was like well it's to show that he's flawed i'd be like dude we can find ways of making it flawed that darn involvement he can be flawed without being villainous yes oh i think that's just you're not flawed until you're like a borderline criminal well actually no this is well with this guy yeah i mean with zach and with all the other dceu stuff i mean with a lot of writing these days they're like i said there's this super skewed sense of morality that's for whatever reason we're okay with our heroes doing obviously villainous things for whatever reason i think like stealing the the clothes that's enough to show that he's flawed without him being villainous yeah that's okay like i'm cool with that but puncturing someone's car because they're a dick like it's and it's not even stealing the clothes it's how he steals the clothes does he do it like oh thank god i found some clothes for me to wear or you know he looks at the clothes looks at the house he can see on his face sinister clark kent doesn't exact revenge on people in petty ways like this if you thought this version of the party does that because this isn't the perfect superman who makes all the right choices all the time the superman makes ah i hate this okay we're not asking for perfection stop i hate it when people do this they go as if that was a mistake like it was that is a fallacy right i can't remember if it has a name but just what do you try and defend it from like an appeal to just the absurd position of the opponent yeah i think so yeah just stop it that's reducing that that's reducing an argument to a um like an extreme like an absurd aspect of what it would be where i would say this is yeah it's like you take the you take a complete opposite extreme to try and make yours look better yeah well it's like a straw man basically it's like oh you you don't want superman to impale this guy's truck with logs so you just expect him to be you know pure and innocent all the time that's right it's kind of yeah it's like adjacent to a strong man it's like it's almost like a type of straw man it's in the straw family yeah superman argument because because the best faith interpretation of what they just said is oh i'm sorry i didn't mean to imply that i want him to be perfect not at all in fact and then you clarify and then they're stuck because they can no longer misrepresent your opposition to uh his counter to i don't want superman to just impale this dude's truck full of logs is oh so you expect him to be perfect like you could hey i don't want my protagonist in this video game that would be stuck playing for 10 hours i don't want to be introduced to them torturing someone and killing them right in front of their family members oh so you just like usually expect them to be perfect then no listening is it it's just like doing whatever they want with your argument instead of addressing it properly like yeah you were just you were just waiting for your chance to talk weren't you yeah again this isn't the perfect superman who makes all the right choices all the time the superman makes mistakes in this case he stole some clothes i would also be curious at what point like that's what does he have to take what does he have to do for you to say oh you know what this is actually over the line this is not something i can just call a mistake yeah i actually would like to see a version of this movie where if this really was a mistake like superman sort of like a super powered mr bean and everywhere that he goes he just causes comedies yeah must be not a good heart yeah but like he still ends up with like trucks being in you know impaled by mr bean's hilarity was him doing things and not knowing it yeah truck later on his temper when his mother is threatened and crashes through a factory and gas station this is all part of the learning experience oh no no you didn't oh no what you've just suggested so i've never i've never crashed through a building person yeah what do you suggest never i don't have that experience superman was unaware that if you crash someone through an ihop there may be people in it like no he he knew this this is something he knew he better know what buildings are and you're like oh okay well my argument is that he's just being a tad irrational right now because he's angry and he has to learn from that it's like oh well your argument doesn't that's not something you like next time he's angry he could do this again is what you're saying yeah the best thing that you could say is he wasn't thinking because he was angry but that is not a justification that's also what makes him [ __ ] horrible like it's like you can't control your anger that's kind of part of being an adult is having controversial got to be really careful here like no it's fine that superman killed all these people he was angry what the [ __ ] dude um what do you what do you think what do you think zod is doing at the end he's angry so he wants to kill a bunch of innocent people good man he's doing it out of spite superman's angry about his moments we usually kill a bunch of people it's fight his mistake your honor my client was angry the laziest thing that you can do is compare superman to jesus i think the laziest [ __ ] that you can do with this character is compare him to i don't know if i categorize it as lazy because um because because you'd have to appeal to what he's trying to achieve and he's done lazy because i just don't think he was capable of doing anything much more interesting than that meaningful difference between uninspired and lazy though because um i don't know if i wanted to make like a stacked house of cards someone could be like wow you're not really the first person to do that like yeah well it was really hard and i was really proud of doing it i guess it's because i guess one of those involves like some level of effort in actually doing well yeah i don't know i i wouldn't i wouldn't compare uh second class cards to exactly yeah yeah well you could say one is more like it's about dexterity and i guess i'm trying to think how to phrase it like if it's like building a house of cards alone which is difficult very kick like you have to be very careful a lot of things combos go into it of something that is is very easy to do and something that everybody's already just like signed off on like in terms of just ugh well signed out of actually just oh yeah i guess it's about the amount of passion you have for something like if you don't even care then if like if someone is doing something they don't care about but they have to do it or they're just doing it idly out of boredom or something you don't expect them to really put a lot of effort into it but if you're the director of a film and you have all this time and gajillions of dollars and all the help in the world you sort of ex like it should be on the next level um yeah like i said i'm not sure how i categorize it i of course i don't even know that i would um put it in my analysis for issues i take with the film it's just something we all see you know he's comparing superman to jeebus so yeah i think it's because of how overt it is he has such little faith in the audience to see what he's trying to go for maybe yeah maybe yes like he doesn't have a lot of he doesn't seem to have a lot of he ironically both seems to both have a lot of confidence in his product but not a lot of confidence in people to pick up the message or is the alertness of it part of the style why do you say that with the previous video being like you know what i'm not going to defend this movie it speaks for itself so in what a world and that's all zack snyder does do you get it guys what does this remind me um all sacks snyder does like i'm not defending zack snyder when i say no he does lots of other things too because yeah he does other things unfortunately there's too many uh superman jesus references but there's not that many of them yeah it's just the ones we get are not like this subtle yeah like this and the stained glass and the imagery from below it's like it's been the t-pose uh oh appeal to the comics cool to jesus throughout his whole existence he's always been portrayed as a powerful god-like people so this is where the effort point comes in doesn't it yeah and talent comes in heels to strive towards and in many comics throughout his existence he's been compared to jesus or presented as like a messiah figure this is nothing new to the character and man of steel is literally just two scenes where the symbolism is moderately obvious and that's all zack snyder does come on next we're going to talk about his parents mainly marcus feels that he was mishandled in this movie and in this movie his dad um that's an understatement yeah you could say mishandled yeah that's one way cosmonaut would have to do something really really stupid for us to be against him on this point if he argues it by the reason hey he could find a way if if he says the reason that jonathan kent is bad in this film is that he's not like the comics if that's the argument he makes i'm gonna be very upset is so what i will not be set with clark hiding his identity that he dies for it no yeah stop responsible do not save my life um no that's not oh he kind of [ __ ] it up well it's not all that he said so far uh yeah but it's also not the whole picture of why that's all stupid um can it be strained out that jonathan kent is stupid to say don't save me you need to protect your identity it's not stupid i think because the criticism has to be categorized differently because that is his character and that's what we're criticizing rather than yeah that's what he values what he actually thinks yeah that is he's acting earnestly on a very strange belief that he has that isn't justified by the writing well definitely not where i would have gone for my uh kent assassination clip but uh it it it helps um well it's something if we make him a bizarre character or a refresh and ignoring the comics i would just be like this guy is telling his son that he shouldn't be saving people's lives with the immense power he has because maybe somebody might start looking into things and things could go bad which is [ __ ] insane and it like it's we we always like to to appeal to how good the advice uncle ben gives but it's not just because like those are particularly well it's just like no it's just really [ __ ] solid it's good advice yeah like it transcends the the material it's just good life real life advice imagine someone telling you you shouldn't necessarily act for someone else's benefit if it might cost you something like what what do you what how do i even extrapolate this into life versus if you have the power to help people you should yup sometimes it's good to sacrifice a bit if you know it can help other people it makes it i mean that would create a better world if we all were kind of willing to do that don't be too selfish be willing to help people even at some personal loss sometimes and so you might be thinking well wait did you just help people all the time constantly and you know like i would say the spider-man stories try to deal with the more specifics of the statement meanwhile with with jonathan you're like wait should you i don't know for instance let a bunch of kids drown just to protect your identity and he says maybe he says maybe when that's an obvious like you save the kids like this is the softball this is one of those hypotheticals and you're like oh yeah like like a lead-up question so i would argue he's a horrible person and then if someone was like what do you think of him as an adaptation i'd be like are you [ __ ] kidding me as an adaptation a core value of jonathan and martha kent is that they encourage clark to use his powers to help people but in this movie jonathan kent tells clark that he should have let children die as opposed to revealing his powers what was i supposed to do just let him die maybe i'm sorry yeah so this guy's defending this so this is an automatic loss what the [ __ ] yeah so jonathan kent is determined to keep clark's abilities a secret because he knows how people would react if they knew the truth and he didn't want him to face what do you mean no what do you mean by leaves what do you mean he believes a certain thing what even though like i don't understand this at all i don't even know if we've unpacked this before but like if i could just sit down with jonathan what do you think's gonna happen and he says you know what well they're gonna kidnap you and they're gonna stab you with scalpels and rip you apart and see how you tick like oh well i mean i'm probably still going to save people can i mention can i even do that i don't even think they can i don't even think they could that's the thing like his super resilience it sort of gives him a position where he's not like in danger from anyone even being able to hurt him on this planet because people like that guys have to come from the outside the planet people like to say jonathan is right like they like to say about bvs see jonathan was right because the world hates superman in that movie that's [ __ ] talking about excuse to let people die exactly it's like what do you what do you think you're saying jonathan was right let the people drown like yeah basically only do the right thing if it earns you the approval of others which is not a good moral it's like it's surprising how much you're in obviously spiderman spiderweb is hated by the daily bugle and it's like well you should probably stop spiderman constantly has repercussions because of trying to help people but he keeps doing it because that's what he wrote because with great power comes great response [ __ ] absurd jonathan kent's a horrible person i'm sorry he's a piece of [ __ ] i'm glad he's dead imagine if he would have kept going on to influence superman maybe we avoided horrific cataclysm because he died when he did like the whole reason that superman's generally portrayed as a really good person is because he had really good parents who taught him good values and if there was a can i just mention that just just to add on table right if it was a tv and he's watching it with clark when he was like the age we see him in the film and it shows zod's invasion or whatever and he's just like no son no the government will take care of it don't reveal your identity well yeah what would what would he say can then just mention that uh with wonder woman 1984 out now and we've seen how people react to wonder woman going around and saving people that this seems completely [ __ ] and this scene definitely takes place after 1984. true jonathan kent should have to rationalize that when he was what [ __ ] was it around this like it was like 10 years how long ago would it have been this so if if jonathan can't when it's born in 1980 if he's 33 years old in 2013 which i think we can reasonably assume was when that happened this is like he looks like he's 10 maybe 12 30 13. yeah this is the mid 90s it's been about 10 years since wonder woman projected yeah a person who's bulletproof super strong and beloved by everybody it's like hmm i'm going to be fair i'm going to be fair to zack snyder here wonder woman 19 yeah wasn't in his mind yeah but but funny at the same time it just goes to show how the vc is so poorly plotted out canon with uh at least of course yeah it is jenkins the best that's the thing you when you're going through in chronological order like we are right now with all the context that we have is like man this scene makes no [ __ ] sense whatsoever the universe has just hit the [ __ ] restart button already just mcu fan boys it failed time to try again yes mcu fanboys who for the last three or four streams have spent like several hours sitting on one division we also went through that paddle of mcu movies how many did i say were bad rather than good uh plot one it was more than half more than half oh there was there was that one dude that was like well yeah of course i think you guys are mcu fan boys and then you show like okay everything that's got a red line through it is a 4 out of 10 or lower that's most of the mcu it's annoying because we [ __ ] on the mcu quite a bit the mcu just it we know it can hit those really it has peaks yeah it has them it has the potential to get there maybe not anymore but it has done it i'm pretty sure my most is it my most popular videos it's either captain marvel or tross so yeah either my second or first most popular video is [ __ ] on a marvel film so i don't know i guess the problem is like captain marvel has certain political baggage unfortunately it doesn't count so like wow it's just that's us that's usually why i'd like to just default to iron man 3 because it's it's like this is a politically uncontroversial terrible movie well yes but it's just bad it's like mando it's just bad the worthwhile thing to say though is that i don't mention any of that in my videos i know it doesn't matter because people will be like oh of course you don't like captain marvel it's like what do you think happened with your black panther video black panther's stupid wow you hate black people wow you hate black people captain mark wow and women too oh has he ever shot on a film never mm-hmm which by the way turns out he's writing pbs no he's not holy [ __ ] [ __ ] there's some protesters outside of the capitol but when he dies he gets a [ __ ] state-sponsored funeral and the whole world is plunged into hopelessness let us dispel this [ __ ] insanity that jonathan kent was right no he wasn't he was never writing he never will wasn't he's a [ __ ] never tell your kids this never tell anybody this never give them the idea at this impressionable age from someone that they respect that they should let a busload of children die why do we have to say that identity yeah jonathan kent had his chance why is this something we have to say on efab what the [ __ ] happened what is wrong with the world if this is like the litmus test for are you a bad person you failed you you [ __ ] up clark's ability is a secret because he knows how people would react if they knew the truth and he didn't want to realize what you're saying by the way certainly how people would react not specifically they would kill you they would kill your fam how people they would be annoyed at you i don't [ __ ] care if they're annoyed at me for saving a bus full of children the [ __ ] i don't know i don't even know what informs this this belief of his i'm pretty sure that i hate him when if someone sees you save a bus full of children you're like holy [ __ ] thank you not a hero this guy awesome he didn't want recognition for it yeah he's being very selfless he he's you know putting himself in harm's way maybe that's why i'm glad he's on my team i i want yeah i want to keep encouraging him to keep using his powers to save people i wouldn't be like [ __ ] this guy i hate kids i wish those kids would [ __ ] drown [ __ ] them kids i wish his dad would have told him to let those kids drown i just don't get it just don't get it you're so desperate to defend this shitty movie we haven't even gotten to bbs yet oh my god you're right didn't want him to face the consequences until he was ready which by the way turns out he's writing pbs with how the world reacts to his existence that's why he should have said son no matter what happens no matter what the world says about you your mother and i we've got your back we're here for you we're gonna be by your side the whole way you have friends and family who are here to care about you and that's what's important [ __ ] that what happened to good value strangers might not like you oh i had to save him in front of those people he wants clark to show himself to the world when he's good and ready now it's for london when he's good and ready he's the one who's telling him he was already doing a point of if you're a father and you have a son well if you if you're a father and you have a son right one of your responsibilities is to prepare your kid for the world that's one of your jobs as a parent that's not something like oh you know that maybe you could like take a proactive role in preparing this super powered kid of yours to you know deal with this sort of thing maybe you would see it not only as a responsibility to your kid but as a responsibility to the world that he's going to grow up in knowing his power that you you know you are very influential over this character you should use that for good he also just said that he's he's telling him he needs to do it when he's good and ready it's like he's already doing it he believes he's ready to save people's lives even at the cost of his identity it's like no you're just there heckling him when he saves children's lives what a [ __ ] great person you are kids is drown he say yes he says maybe because he doesn't know the answer he doesn't want clark to face he doesn't know the answer if you don't know the answer was if someone asks me is two plus two four and i say maybe like i've already messed up because the answer is yes and if i don't know the answer that's pretty damning again twin perfect used this defense in his video didn't he everyone does it's the the jonathan kemp was right and jonathan was simply saying be careful clark but they never go further and they never really explain what they do be careful and also yes save the children it's [ __ ] insane this is look zach's not a [ __ ] up he [ __ ] up big time when he made this happen i would have been like you know what if you really are concerned about your identity i don't know like keep a mask with you i guess but just save the children save the yeah that's a plus that one right there that's a good one save the kids people like pete's mother who's old enough and ready because he knows he's gonna change everything when people realize what he can do he [ __ ] cares she [ __ ] gives a [ __ ] if you know he's going to change everything then you have a responsibility to give him not shitty advice like this you don't change everything letting bus full of children die on the regular that's probably that change that would change a lot if each one of those kids has two parents on average then [ __ ] me a lot of lives hmm i i actually have a question so um clark was on that bus when it fell into the river and so if he let those kids die and he was the only survivor huh oh that would be rough interesting to live with wouldn't it be like how did you escape survivor's guilt oh yeah you're right not vibrant guilt for a kid you've got how did you get out of the bus and no one else did yep it would be like whatever you did to escape how come you couldn't take anyone with not a scratch he wouldn't have a scratch on him yeah he would literally be like david dunn and unbreakable yeah it would be very weird people would raise a lot of eyebrows about it hmm yes agreed he doesn't want him to go through that until he's old enough and more importantly when clark chooses to do it a big theme throughout the whole did choose to do it encourage him to do it sooner and encourage him to do it way sooner so he also did choose to save those children he also was going to save his dad but his dad was like no son do not do that you're not ready at what point will you be ready he's like an adult at that point people always refer to that scene as jonathan expressing that clark is like it's it's too early for you to make your choice you know and it's like that's such a strange thing that's my choice yeah it's surely it's his choice whether or not he's going to say ugh terrible terrible terrible movie is freedom of krypton every cortonia is bred for a purpose they have no freedom of choice superman's parents doesn't follow but whatever it's not even yeah the fact that zod has so many different ways of doing the things that he wants to do and reasoning i don't actually but you know when krypton would terror be terraformed all of humanity's wiped out whatever kryptonians are starting back up what does zod do do you just keep punching things he has to actually just conform to society that doesn't have war sometimes this whole idea that he never gets to do anything that he wants to he's got no free will in the sense of the describing it it's so [ __ ] juvenile it is juvenile yeah i get so soldiers 99.999 of their lives they're not like in combat situations shooting at people and getting shot at you know they're they're they're hurry they're hurrying up and waiting you know sitting around doing stuff training stuff living life special that krypton has lost so when the world was ending they sent away their only son with a dna ever kryptonian so that he can forge his own destiny and then on earth jonathan we've been over there so many times the whole four year old destiny make your own choice and then he ends up [ __ ] obliterating kryptonians forever his dad's probably like oh his the hologram dad was like oh [ __ ] jesus christ that's not what i meant oh i should have been more specific he's going to be in justice league apparently russell crowe uh he's he's going to well this is a spider cut sorry i wonder if anyone's going to tell him once because he got deleted remember from the ship so if there is like oh what happened son he's like oh no uh we won we won yeah we did it we did it we won we won the battle you did it hooray we saved did you gotta go now like i told have you picked out a beautiful kryptonian bride yet to restart our species how's the whole bridge between people yeah it's just [ __ ] like gagging mueller corpse of a baby on the floor he's like oh [ __ ] uh let's kick that under the table let's go celebrate in the embryo chamber as is customary on krypton look down i made my own choice and he's like what the [ __ ] clark you weren't supposed to make your own [ __ ] choice you're supposed to you're supposed to make my choice in a different voice so he's ready you want to expose himself to the world it's all about what clark wants and that's going to do it for the bulk of his main criticisms he also isn't a fan of lois lane but i enjoy her but i understand most of his points there i do like i would love to hear why you enjoyed it i am legitimately curious yeah dude that was a weird sentence he was like she he complains about her i like it but i agree with the points but he had butt several times let me just play that again it was a weird one roller coaster of a sentence kryptonian so that he can forge his own destiny and then on earth jonathan wants to keep clark's secret until he's ready and chooses one to expose himself to the world it's all about what clark wants and that's gonna do it for the bulk of his main criticisms he also isn't a fan of lois lane but i enjoy her but i understand most of his points there but i enjoy him i understand martin's points yeah all right well i mean that's not necessarily contradictory it's just a strange sentence do you like seeing her using her reporter skills to track down superman and find out who he is i think it's yeah rapport skills by looking randomly in a direction and he's like oh look who's this guy here journalist says we're tingling because he used the wrong visual what he's referring to is tracking him down when she does remember in the she finds his family and she finds ginger kid that is actually journalism compared to i looked to take a photo of a [ __ ] iceberg or whatever the hell they're looking at a glacier and and then yeah who happened to snap him walking toward like that shit's not journalism but he used the visual from this visual yeah that just confused you because it was amazing it doesn't matter what he said yeah uh good job i guess but also it just highlights how the world's greatest detective should have found out exactly who superman was uh if [ __ ] lois lane could do it that's gonna do it for the bulk of his main criticisms he also isn't a fan of lois lane but i was enjoy her but i understand most of his points there i do like seeing her using her reporter skills to track down superman and find out who he is i think it's a bonus that we have a lowest lane is actually smarter than previous versions no lois lane from the original was a very interesting well fleshed out character who had flaws and bonuses and strengths and ambitions and oh she was like a real person it was so nice zack snyder's lois like drowned herself okay i'll be that small you can do it for the main section because i'm trying to talk about batman vs superman sweet yay we did it so he starts off this section talking about this film's version of batman i'm gonna be i just wanted to say we're never going to get rid of man of steel it's going to haunt us forever the specter of that film is going to haunt us i just like that we've got movies there forever that's that's a perfect stain on that movie i would direct anybody who thinks man of steel is good to that video it's it's compact it's entertaining filled with arguments go nuts very well edited yeah there's a lot of guys know about it now that we actually get to bvs i'm gonna leave because it's 2 a.m and i need to work very well i'll see some of you tomorrow yes see you later yeah catch you later guys yeah man of steel is like gonna be our mortal blade wound it's just something that's never gonna leave my life i'm hoping it goes away after this one but i think it will come back yeah ah weeks later but for now i want to cover things that he gets wrong or just doesn't understand also i'm not going to be addressing most of his nitpicks like these wait so you're telling me this guy only just now realized that evacuating is a good idea that's not a nitpick at all um well i mean if we want to talk about its overall impact i mean it's super impactful to him yeah i was gonna say this is hard to categorize for me because it's valid which is a category of nitpick but how significant is it yeah if if we're talking about to him it's incredibly significant it leads to his death to the overall plot he's just one of tens of thousands so i mean well either way it ain't looking great i would argue definitely impacts you might be able to call this a nitpick but i don't think it represents this the scope of this criticism properly yeah yeah yeah it's it's it's technically a nitpick i guess but it's not in spirit a nitpick considering that uh bruce wayne is partially motivated by the loss of his employees and his employees aren't leaving the building when they obviously should during this catastrophe and metropolis yeah this is not a nitpick yep i think that's actually a fair enough argument um bruce could have been motivated regardless of the people in the building though uh yeah even if this guy had survived i think the loss of everybody else would have or the destruction of the building maybe like the little girl that he meets up with she didn't work for him you know i'm sorry then if that's the case then why even show wayne enterprises employees dying in the first place well why not i guess because if you're gonna be reacting to to metropolis getting destroyed without women's surprises being there i guess it's just extra connection for finds him further yeah so well then the extra connection is [ __ ] then because they aren't leaving the building yeah yeah the connection is stupid well yeah but i agree with you the extra connection is stupid so i guess it's the idea that like the extra connection can be lost and it's not super consequential yeah that's what i would argue if batman said i only cared because all of my employees died i'd be like that's weird that'd be weird i'd be like yeah that would be very weird yes first off that would be something that i would expect from zack snyder today thank god i think it's just more icing on a cake that didn't yeah they really need it the idea is they want there to be an extra connection the execution however kind of overrides what the point of the scene was all right cool great i got you bro if i see alien ship destroying the city two blocks away my ass is already out the building are you a terrorist jenny i am very glad that cosmonaut variety hour is at least smart enough to put those like little pieces of information together and just yeah yeah it's so interesting well this is the best cosmonaut video we've seen i'm glad though because like even with him you wonder about oh is he gonna [ __ ] this up luckily he's not you just but it's just pretty good this is really bad but do you know why batman v superman a movie so [ __ ] that not even cosmonaut can [ __ ] up criticizing it what a damning indictment of that question anyway let's not worry about that let's instead look at one of those that is an odd question to ask someone if you're it is you would say well someone you know some would consider you a terrorist but what would you know yeah that would be the way to protect you say to those people what would you you know well it's a shitty dialogue basically yeah and well i would go further i would say that it's really [ __ ] stupid that lois lane experienced journalist would phrase a question that way that was really dumb um however not very consequential nitpick sure i'm fine with that yeah she's done that moving on funny scenes of them why is he crawling on the ceiling like spiderman these are just that um that's not even i mean like it's really silly and my criticism is why the [ __ ] did he get out of this sooner like he hung around for ages he went and he hung around the guy for some reason my biggest criticism is this is a this is a scene that belongs in a batman year one uh batman's first night kind of yeah hey this is a gotham pd that's sighted with batman that the whole movie is basically establishing hey well the cops work with batman basically yeah but batman's here to spook this cop around and this cop gets spooked by him and try shooting him it is sad in the scene uh that the the more experienced cop is like what the [ __ ] and then he's like oh [ __ ] i didn't realize that was him apparently it's a rookie cop who's brand new and but the thing is i don't think that makes batman's choices make sense in that scene he should surely be did batman know that well yeah because batman should be standing over the dude and then he looks over at the police and maybe even walks toward them to like talk to them and then you have the rookie cop goes for freeze and then batman's like whoa and then maybe he uses his grapple or does something as a result yeah he's like just he cured his weapon really quick and then when he was calm give it back to him something like that but um this is a world where the gotham police are very pro batman to the point where they don't talk to journalists about batman or his antics because they're like no batman yeah i could see how police would be very pro batman absolutely [ __ ] it i'm actually i'm actually gonna cite the dark knight rises in a positive way for a second here as a point of contrast against this terrible movie when when batman returns uh to rescue the hostages taken from the gotham stock exchange and one of the most [ __ ] heists in film history um in terms of what the goal is and how they execute it um there's a couple of cops that we see that are reacting to batman returning basically one of them shoots at batman and damages this device that he uses to it's like some sort of emp gun or something um but we get a good idea of like that cop being inexperienced and um like also batman's suspected to have killed uh harp like murdered harvey dent because you know that was the story after the event of after the events of the dark knight so i think that that makes more sense than what we get in bvs we have more context for that for understanding why the cop shoots at batman why the other cop is like no no no don't do that oh yeah and and just to seal it batman would have uh he had the jump on the guy he would have just stopped him from firing the gun maybe pushed him over and left not quickly hurriedly crawling across the wall to get up the chimney and hope he doesn't [ __ ] shoot him or whatever it's so [ __ ] strange yeah very weird very weird nitpicks real weight and don't affect anything in the grand scheme of things it could be entertaining and fun to find and make fun of these little things but i don't see most of them really cause an issue right in the beginning we get a taste of his misunderstanding of scenes all right also can i just say what the [ __ ] is this scene for we don't even know these people okay so it's implied that someone is trying to frame superman and make him look more violent than he is so you ask what the scene is for and who these people are and then a few seconds later you say it's to frame superb no no no no so he's asking who the cia people are which they are the cia and the people framing superman work for lex they're different people this sequence was created to frame superman these people are coming in after that's happened they don't work for lex it's just uh well this is the thing talk to [ __ ] anyone who defends this movie like no everyone's paid off by la la la la la la la la ha ha ha ha you answered your own question no no that was just a failure of comprehension two different groups of people cia and the lex people you also misunderstood this scene this wasn't to show superman to be more violent than he is this scene was to frame superman by showing that his actions of getting involved caused people in the village to get killed and no it's always both of those things no they say it's explicit it's both of those things why they they bodies to show that superman did it and then they also go on to say that the like american forces went on to shoot down a bunch of village people in and around the area the implication being superman getting involved somehow leads to america deciding to shoot a bunch of people it's weird but also that superman did all these horrible things to these people both it's a mess it's a mess why he is framed by lagoons by killing everyone and lighting them on fire and then he has this woman lie to the supreme court and say that superman's action is what yeah it's a really stupid plan huh because it all falls apart as soon as someone looks into this yeah you think that the central intelligence age agency would maybe you know see right through this stupid ruse but well conveniently i guess they just don't we have lex luthor trying to coerce a congresswoman into giving him access to more kryptonite even though he already has kryptonite that's not what he um he wants to allow him to import it she denies it so he has to do it under the black market that's fine with me so that cosmonaut failed on that one i guess like you know if you're lex you want to get it in legally right that's preferable yeah if yeah if you can do it legally then just do that then you could have the act then you could bring in people to help you with it if you need it and it won't raise any eyebrows they'll just life will just be simpler in every way she says no i think that's the yeah go ahead that was it she says no and so he does it illegally okay um i think that the real criticism there is the fact that he's asking for unsupervised access to zod's body when he can apparently already get access to zod's body and because we see like video of them using kryptonite on zod's corpse showing the effects of kryptonite well it goes from he can test on it too he gets full ownership of it to do whatever he wants which is precisely absolutely that doesn't stand happening that ain't happening but that's the thing that's not what cosmonauts said that's not even steel mandible right he's criticizing someone i don't think is a problem that's not what he wants he has the kryptonite what he wants is an import license to bring it in legally he could smuggle it in which is what he ends up doing but what he's doing here is using the kryptonite as leverage to get what he wants in a previous scene he makes a deal with his military guide to get access to the ship and zod's body in exchange to help weaponize the kryptonite but she ends up putting a slight damper in his plans by not giving him the import license and the current amount he has isn't big enough to weaponize i know marcus basically said um i don't even know that's true i don't know how much kryptonite you need to disable superman um i mean theoretically you can just tip some bullets in it well i was gonna say if you tip a spear and then stab it through to his heart would that kill him as long as the tip of the spear is what's penetrating him i i depends is he soft and newy gooey on the inside or i presume so i assume i'm not well why not because he has a resistance to blunt trauma to extreme degrees i presume tonight seems to destroy him so because he's stabbed by um bone when he's he's stabbed by bone because of kryptonite kryptonite makes him able to be stabbed by other things apparently so this is but that destroys his cells sure so like that's what it does right it destroys the cells so even if it's on the surface just no matter what it touches it's just yeah that's what i'm saying like so that would work then well like okay so yeah getting stabbed by kryptonite would certainly [ __ ] him up and kill him uh being near kryptonite like the the spear weakens superman just holding it so yeah i assume that if he can inhale gas which is right just particles in the air and it does that to him essentially it essentially makes him mortal hercules style then and you would be able to stab it like put a tip of a spear inside of them and as long as that things beer tips in them i think the film doesn't quite stay consistent on just how because the thing is thinking about it it's like what i'm thinking like if you had the kryptonite next to him could you stab him with a normal knife and how sharp and how heavy and how what it would have to be made of to be able to go through him because bone can go through him but like at the same time he's tossed what like 30 floors or something and he goes wow it's like i should probably kill you mate like if you're if you're in you know human weaknesses we can say more so here's like he wouldn't have said al before i guess but now he is saying al so that's progress of a kind um well the only the only other um like his body's telling him that something is wrong it wouldn't have normally done that he just i don't think that the interesting thing here is that yeah and this is how superman reacts to this little tiny chip of kryptonite in a bag like just being around that much crypto that that's the thing is my only uh other familiarity with with the superman media is this essentially and so it's like well i don't know if that applies to this version but yeah i mean there's the ultimate question that i can do with that little bit of kryptonite that he chops the the fingerprints of of thought off with if you put that next to superman does he fall over is he like ah or do you need it to be a certain amount i don't know yeah i guess we'll never know but you'd think lex would want to try it out maybe but i want to explain it because in a bit he's gonna forget that this conversation between them even happened see the weird thing is in this movie both batman and lex luthor want to defeat superman it would make sense to me if zucker lex or bruce approached the other person and was like hey we don't like superman let's [ __ ] kill him but um i don't think batman likes lex luthor does he like he thinks he's a i don't know if they yeah does lex know that that would be the case so why wouldn't lex go to bruce wayne especially if lex knew that bruce wayne was batman um so i don't know they have like a like or dislike relationship at this point because we can go earlier than this but we passed that if the stakes were this high this is very i'm not sure i'm of two minds about this because like we got he's connected the white russian [ __ ] to uh to to lex and he's willing to break into his house and steal his [ __ ] why portuguese right white russian is a drink uh the so so there's definitely like he doesn't think that lex is up to all good like he's scottish but prior to that does he have any issue with lexico i don't really know i don't know what is lex corp's reputation in his world well does he know that the white italian is supposed to be because of lex wanting the kryptonite for that purpose well it wouldn't matter because if he finds out you can just go back further than that you can rewind like the timeline you could argue why didn't he go to him even earlier than that before finding that out um we don't know what batman thinks about lex corp or lex luthor in this universe prior to the white portuguese stuff because we're never really shown i guess we could infer that he must not like lex he must think lex is a bad man and he would never team up with him maybe i'm glad the film makes it clear yeah also wants batman and superman to fight each other you may ask i well i can't tell you because i don't know why would bruce wayne want to work with lex luthor it's made very clear in the movie that he's untrusting due to losing people close to him and seeing good people turn bad whoa so why does so why does he trust alfred i was about to say what the [ __ ] are you arguing that he would never trust anybody ever what do you mean why don't you trust the justice league doesn't he well that's after this movie to be fair um doesn't he still have a working relationship with jim gordon seemingly but i don't believe for a second that batman's this [ __ ] insane now it's like i can't trust anyone it's like what if it means stopping what you consider to be the greatest threat to humanity and yeah i mean you said if it's just a one percent chance then we have to do everything to stop him he's like oh lex lu no i don't agree with it yeah i don't buy this 20 years in gotham alfred we've seen what promises are worth how many good guys you're still here are you not you don't [ __ ] lex luthor doesn't have to be good you just have something yeah this doesn't this isn't it this is bad it's not like you're starting a lifelong friendship where you're inviting bruce would rather steal it and keep it for himself instead of having to end up in the wrong hands also we'll know well why doesn't lex just threaten to reveal his identity if he doesn't help him kill superman and also uh cosmo's point was not that like the the kryptonite even as far as i interpreted what he was saying it was just like you could team up in general combine your forces you're both very rich you both have a concern about superman like the access to i don't know like this there is something there and i think the film would probably should have addressed addressed it prior to the uh the white portuguese stuff because at least then you can interpret oh he thinks that lex is a bad man but he not really though because he's trying to get kryptonite you know that doesn't make him a bad person you'd have to because i mean bruce wants kryptonite you know this is what i mean none of this is really explored and the only argument that people who defend this movie have is baba doesn't trust anyone okay it's a really good argument nice cop out there yeah no that lex knows that he's batman pretty certain he would want to keep that a secret so asking lex luthor about kryptonite you can be interested in stopping superman without being batman you could you could breathe bruce and be like this this super being that destroyed your city that is right next to my city by the way two extremely influential important billionaire types have a vested interest in the same individual for the same reasons you could go as far as saying like yeah the economy they could be interested for that alone well yeah if like if metropolis gets destroyed not that would ever happen but like that would that would raise some serious issues for both companies but if batman was in everything and bruce wayne was just a billionaire philanthropist they would still have a reason to do this yep the idea that he's like this is a soup being destroying our cities we should do something about it and then lex goes you batman you're like what you guys batman i don't know why you just super batman but okay once would it be a good man movie good way to keep that secret especially since bruce had to steal the information to find out what the white portuguese is and what it's carrying not a great plan no it doesn't yeah that's that's not a good point yeah especially because if he discovered why he was keeping it a secret and how high the stakes were he would understand why yeah lexus specifically arguably help him lex is actually doing this because he's worried about superman like that's precisely the same motivation for batman where lex starts is understandable where he [ __ ] ends up is crazy land yeah and that hasn't happened yet so you can't even appeal to that insanity but i agreed obviously now lex wants batman to fight superman because he wants to accomplish two things expose your band as a fraud and kill someone i wouldn't do that expose him as the fraud and kill him he's gonna do the stupid [ __ ] the twin remember this this video was made post twin perfect's insane rationalization for lexus plan which this guy is totally going to crib off if you will so i can believe it lex wants to either kill superman or ruin superman's reputation and so he's just gonna argue that every single result gets you that which by the way people have made memes about that image and i look forward to showing them on the next meme fab they're funny but um no matter great memes that we haven't seen yet twin perfect is the kind of person that says like no matter what lex wins and we're the kind of people it's like no matter what lex [ __ ] up like every single end to his plan is a [ __ ] up the primary one being superman can no longer defend earth from the horrible things that might come including and not limited to zod for man all powerful he cannot be all good and if he is all good then he cannot be all powerful yeah but if he's pretty good you know it's all right yeah i mean yeah they like to play this clip this is like it doesn't really rationalize why you would kill super bad at all sorry you want a neighbor person who's all good and neither can you be they need to see the fraud you are he spends time pushing batman into one to kill superman because he knows he has the best chance especially no so what would be the best way to kill superman it's like you just need a kryptonite knife and you need to draw him into a room there's no reason why batman would be any better for that than literally just you lex i like the idea that batman's armor suit makes it so that he's much better equipped when superman could literally rip it in half if he wanted to the kryptonite is what matters yeah at this point armor is just especially you remember if i wanted it you'd be dead already oh thank you superman wonderful yeah the kryptonite that he wants bruce to steal and it was shown in the email that bruce sent to diana that he was looking into other powerful beings could have been a possibility that he's gonna have to kill all them too i guess because lex doesn't make any sense in this movie imagine being worried about the power of superman and you also found a guy who can run at the speed of light like oh and a woman who is fast is faster than bullets and like all the uh and what and whatever crazy [ __ ] cyborg is capable of he was looking into one of them to kill superman but batman is right across the harbor in gotham city and has already been grown increasingly violent over the years so it would be easy to sway him into one to kill superman by framing him with the incident in the desert no none of this no we've been over all of this this is so stupid the capitol building and sending him those to further fuel his rage right now you just say hey batman you and i went to do the same thing it's funny to me because people like this will you know go to batman you could just send an email to bruce wayne because you're lex luthor and you could do that kind of thing and say hey so the superman guy yeah like uh if you picture that payoff he's describing right now and that those like four or five things he named are all the pillars that hold it up and we went through all of them with him and explained how none of them make any [ __ ] sense and so the ultimate payoff is just built on absolutely shaky ground i still think he'd probably resort to the whole i think you're missing forrest for that you're misunderstanding [Music] little red notes big bang you let your family die at the same time he is swaying superman to not like batman here's another example yeah which like is a genuine question of wait is batman okay with people getting killed from his brands we never actually find that out you just you just never has to address it uh but clark of course uses it as a reason to be like i should probably stop this bat guy um again this is it's like pieces of a story are in here but they never come through on any of it example of marcus misrepresenting a scene so he hires one of bruce's old employees who lost his legs during the last movie's final battle so that he can sue superman for being evil lex luthor then gives that guy a cool robot wheelchair and then he blows it up in the courthouse killing everybody except superman he's not suing him he's just he said he wants to i think he wants to testify yeah also i love superman's reaction to witnessing the deaths of everybody in the courthouse doesn't really seem to mind that much um he's expressing an emotion it's just not the one you'd be looking for as an audience member i think yeah like i see like that i it's like what it's supposed to be it should be like 8 9 10 what we see is like two or three i'm trying to think it was like it's a funny scale of that emotion i think if he were like uh doing the thousand-yard stare i think that would be better because this one he looks he's kind of like the immediate emotion i get is like oh shame that happened uh he just looks around you have to clean up this mess yes yeah he's not like just staring in disbelief my criticism isn't that there's no emotion there it's the i'm not sure if it's quite the right one it's a bit of a weird one not great superman's reaction to witnessing the deaths of everybody in the courthouse doesn't really seem to mind that much oh and instead of staying to help the people who have just [ __ ] been bombed he flies away you don't uh he is so if i remember he sat someone down and the paramedic is like i need to look after them can you back up please and then superman's like oh and then leaves so i think if you want to be specific the criticism would be that superman just leaves after a guy tells him to instead of like making sure there's nothing yeah like this is a active crime scene there's plenty he could probably do there's people he could talk to about what happened yeah what did you see was there anything weird you're the only link to like information in there sort of yeah i mean yeah it was televised but you were physically there looking around you are you're our insight into clues he's depressed we leave like oh man you don't need to be a comic book expert to know that superman would never do that not an appeal i would need to make just something he wouldn't do in this film yes he did use this guy to blow up the capitol building which was to incite rage and bruce wayne and to show the public that's [ __ ] i'm angry because someone else blew up a bunch of people because they don't like superman argue that this is what tips him over because the next scene is him stealing the kryptonite i don't understand why this tips him over this is some crazy person blowing up people because they don't like superman what is that how is that superman's fault what's he supposed to do i guess batman doesn't rationalize anything he's just kind of a crazy this is what the psycho murder man is what a lot of people call him it's like kind of like he just doesn't really think a lot through which is a little bit of a shame because batman is typically intelligent but never mind this situation is going to be a dummy yeah listen him having to him being supposed to be intelligent that's an adaptation argument okay this is a dumbo surely he'd have to be intelligent in here to do all this stuff and to pull it off yeah well i don't think the gadgets and the gizmos and the detective work i don't know that anyone would actually argue like no he's he's an imbecile in this universe you understand he's like okay you don't need to be a comic book expert to know that superman would never do that yes he did use this guy to blow up the capitol building which was to incite rage and bruce wayne and to show the public that wherever superman goes chaos follows even doesn't that that's not his fault that someone else blowing things up that's their fault what's funny about this is that with the soldier was accused of blowing up the things like oh that's really bad did you find out someone else did it to make wooden soldier look bad and that changes the entire story but that is the story of this one hang on wouldn't batman already be able to grasp us 20 years into his crime fighting career of fighting a bunch of super villains you think someone would have tried to obviously someone's trying to make him look bad that's what i mean he's so sad like batman should be the one that's these people and then he gets told point blank by superbad lex he's trying to that he's like i don't care i will beat you up yes merkin while this guy's trying to explain like lex when the fact that he even said that name should be oh [ __ ] this might actually be really important do you remember how we were lost for so long and probably still are as to why lex blew this place up it's like everyone else got the point which was to make batman mad at superman we didn't even think that would be a thing like why why would you blame superman for this it just doesn't make any sense look what if the scene ran out that like alfred is like good lord like the the things they'll do to stop him and then batman's like this wasn't him it's nothing to do with him people are trying like he sees right through he's like like people want to make superman look bad like like he he pieces it all together and then he's like lex is behind this maybe i've i've jumped the gun on my hatred and we just watch this and be like ooh batman's like doing things he's thinking about stuff then he just cut to him in his suit going it's asking a lot that's asking a lot even though he's not directly responsible for it marcus claims that superman doesn't look upset about it and then he flies away i don't know what you mean he shakes his head and looks upset with himself because he couldn't stop it and then he sees that he looks weird also no one's no one can see that well yeah and then outside he can be seen pulling people from the wreckage but then he's told that they got it from there clearly shown that this [ __ ] can't possibly know that superman superman being here is only going to be a bad thing at this point like [ __ ] is gonna make things worse yeah like no way i'm sorry i don't really care who you are police medic firemen whatever if superman's there i might be like oh can you hang around by the way i know it's a bit selfish of me but because you're fast and indestructible could you like go and get survivors in there search for people can you listen for cries of pain can you use your x-ray vision to look for people trapped in the rubble maybe there might be some extra terrorists hanging out yeah what if people are lifting you can help us search for clues what if someone needs help like one person's got a gurney for one person to get them into a the hospital say he's like oh could you help that person could you help that there's always things that need to be done anymore don't you want to look good and it would be like if you leave first what the [ __ ] he just left be nice for us to see him helping and you have all these people giving him looks and we as the audience are like well [ __ ] you he's helping he's doing everything he can and then maybe if he emphasizes a little bit more oh yeah why why are people people are accepting his help but they're giving them these weird looks they don't want his it's only then does he fly away because clearly he isn't no that one specific guy told him to back up that's one dude no one else would have liked the help of superman if you said wait you want me to leave and not help in any circumstance in any way in this whole area i'm sure the guy will be like huh should i be weird should i talk to the police no it's fine surely the very least you could offer some bedside manner to the survivors that are being treated yeah okay can i get you anything superman was seen after the explosion comforting survivors and helping to locate new ones and assisting emergency personnel and you know trying to contain the damage he's currently cooperating with police to gather clues and investigate who's responsible instead superman [ __ ] off after explosion yeah superman this version of superman sucks he really does [ __ ] and you've got people defending it as well that guy said he doesn't need him to be this okay all right like that's [ __ ] and that was a version of the video that that could be out there where yeah after this shot of him bringing someone to the medic he like is checking it on the other survivors hey buddy how are you doing you know oh you guys have a good scene too we're like an injured congress person is like helped by superman [ __ ] on superman before yeah yeah he's just like you know thank you for this and superman's like of course like why would yeah i wouldn't have to thank me for this god can we just can we just start fresh no jj abrams either just like now i really like the idea of like an actual good superman god the dc eu effect man just making me realize that you can really do superman well if you just think about it have a have any of us here watch superman and lois no no i've heard only good things about how that is so depicted for man i'm sure it's [ __ ] less miserable than this let's just say that yeah by just defaulting does he fly away because clearly he isn't wanted oh and since we have to cram as much [ __ ] into this movie as possible wonder woman watches youtube videos of all the other just yeah that's pretty that's pretty awkward members so that we can force some sequels and spin-offs this is in the movie because this is the information that bruce took from lex luthor at the same time he got the information about the kryptonite yeah which makes no sense for lex luthor to have and to also make these logos for all these different heroes secretly a big fan he also has no concern about uh two different people getting access to all of his information on his hard drives it's [ __ ] bizarre if you want him to get information so he can steal the kryptonite that's like one thing why would you allow him to get access to [ __ ] everything including your information on other meta humans why would you want him to know this like lex is just super incompetent but then the reasoning ah he has access to all these people to kill superman if batman or the kryptonite or doomsday fail it's like what do you mean these are all super people does he want do you want these people dead too like again it's kicking the can down the road kicking the candle over the place man like it's it's wow yeah it's worse than it's crazy nonsense because lex might be the most confusing villain like in anything ever to to recap here cosmonaut raises a criticism of these uh forced cameos to shove out more movies uh kind of cynically and uh this guy's defense was well the movie provides this [ __ ] justification so we can have these terrible cameos yeah yeah well it's okay that it is what it is just it's okay like you don't have to die on every hill yeah like like why would you owe this you'd be like yeah these are blatant yeah yeah they want to set up their own universe and this is how they're doing that and um yeah and it's explained fully like if anyone wants to watch this a hundred years from now and they might like wait why did they do it this way it's like oh well marvel has already got a huge head start on them and so they need to jump start all of their individual movies with a big event movie uh that's why this is happening if you yes it is if you cut this scene out of the movie we would lose nothing of value the better off honestly yeah because this this part's cringe to everybody there's laughing at the concept alone is so blatant to introduce and set up future dc movies but it also works into the plot because it shows that lex was looking into other super power beans nope he seems a bit confused by lex luthor's plan and thinks it's a bit convoluted mainly doomsday and how he knew batman wanted to kill superman lex luthor's [ __ ] 4d chess multi-layered plan also involves taking zod's corpse mixing it with his dna and creating a monster yeah that's stupid the bbs movies he's phrased observation he's phrased it in a way that there's an easy counter that doesn't address the problem at all i guarantee you this guy is going to say uh he knew that from the company he wanted to control the monster he knew that from the computer idiots like no it's mixing your dna with a dead kryptonian in the blue the orange goo creates a giant mod there's so much to this that's import the fact that he found out from the computer is still actually in question what is what is it that he asked the computer about like can i resurrect this this dead kryptonian by the way it's like yes but he'll turn into a horrible monster okay but what if i give it my blood it'll be an even more horrible monster okay i'm gonna do that i don't know why what if i add sugar did you see where the top comment on the the bvs e5 movies was i'm sorry it was the twin perfect one his twin perfect says uh he will obey lex because he has his blood that is that it's like the you know the lie down lex uh beaten by his own father but also as soon as he's born he he tries to punch lex but also just because it's your blood why would that mean he'd do what you say well that was a huge stretch in twin perfect's video even twin perfect knew that when he said it he was like blood on my blood that's close enough right it's like no like all right is it question oh man that's that's like the film actively culturally makes no sense and uh and yeah uh nobody has any clue why the [ __ ] lex did this and if you argue well i used to kill superman it's like that's not good enough like not even close doomsday has kryptonite blood wouldn't it listen like okay again why would he do this well it i guess in some ways you could say it's like fringy has a box of tnt in his house and he's willing to blow it up and kill his whole area or people in the house and i'm like i'm going to nuke him to stop him um like i feel like that doesn't that's um but uh yeah if i was successful and my bomb i don't know it's just so [ __ ] dumb what are you trying to accomplish i've said this before but i really don't like when a villain's plan is that he can just anticipate anything because it comes across as the plan just being [ __ ] dumb i don't even i don't even know that you can anticipate anything like i don't even know that lex is aware of what his plans are he just seems to be doing things it seems like he's just i just do things you know the great villain what happens if elastigirl doesn't do any of the things that you told her to do like how everybody just is like yeah she's elastigirl yeah um i don't know what he means by that what if she doesn't do it because she opposes lex in the whole movie doesn't she yeah constantly that's not uh cause we're not yeah why can't you just you're on point this time just uh just come on do it keep it up why not has a vendetta against superman how does he know that he even wants to kill him did you [ __ ] ask him did you call him on the phone also how does he know that batman wants to kill superman that might be a good question i've not thought about that you know this would play into the whole why wouldn't lex luthor because what would lex luthor have just just to asking bruce wayne you know hey um what do you think about the superman guy was there anything in the film that implies batman wants to kill superman prior to their fight to the world no i don't think there is i don't think that they're actually oh my god you're right yeah that we missed i don't remember there ever being anything yeah let's just batman had explicitly wanted so how could yeah how could likes have known lex just assumes the batman wants superman dead he doesn't yeah for some reason even remember as as this video many others argue batman wasn't really on the trail of destroying superman up until the capitol building explosion yeah he was just like you know it's something we should consider alfred and that was majorly think about in terms of that working that way like how could lexis possibly [ __ ] known any of this and you you could probably be like oh the scenery goes it wasn't hard i sent the messages that said you let your family die i guess that's how lex knows that batman hates superbad which is incredibly flimsy because it doesn't like yeah because batman should be going this is a crazy person who's acting incredibly remember optionally we had four i think different reasons that that falls apart one being you can't know how bruce is going to react to that information and it could just as likely reject all of it and be like oh this is uh it wasn't really superman's fault so i don't know why again secondly like you have to rely on the uh the guy bouncing the checks back not contacting or being contacted by bruce at any point because he didn't write what's on those letters they literally hand well not literally but they hand wave that away yeah it's just just don't worry about it yeah and then the fact that yeah for some well as you just said that the team never bring it to bruce for no reason they they they highlight that'll be an issue but then they say yeah i don't know why i have to look into that bruce why didn't you bring these to me and they're like i'm sorry sir yeah you're fired i'm sorry yeah because there's no you can't even make the excuse of like well bruce is a higher up you know he doesn't deal with he's like no no he specifically uh provided like a trust to go to the victims yeah he was very invested in compensating the victims of the things there's no way he wouldn't none of it works i'm sorry all your components and that's aside from the fact that that's it that's what lou lex used it's like aha now i wonder if he's been sending those checks for three years well that's the thing they didn't even get them why is this guy not [ __ ] getting the point i've been sending these checks they only came in then he came in the capitol building explosion so lex was so [ __ ] lucky what if they got delayed for another two weeks yeah what if i was about to say like what if it just didn't line up in terms of timing what if like batman killed superman much much earlier and like because this film's getting worse i can't like fathom he's like i'm gonna make batman hate superman by blowing up the capital and you go oh what's what's the through line he's like well you know batman will see the someone is so hateful towards superman that they're willing to blow up the capital like why would that make him hate superman if any of batman should be i can't let that hatred consume me i'm like what if that becomes me that's why i don't kill pete well but you know what if someone blew up the capital because they hated batman batman what would you do then kill kill yourself just commit sepaku none of it i don't uh kill people yeah including myself yeah and this is the thing lex doesn't have confidence like we as the audience know this is working lex's only confirmation is the batman steals kryptonite and he's just hoping i guess what if it's to keep it out of lex's hands alfred assumed it was to destroy the kryptonite so what if that was why lex like oh [ __ ] god this movie like this is what cosmonauts talking about is like oh he just accounts for his plans working no matter what everyone else decides to do i don't know that lex knew about any of this he's just [ __ ] walking through the whole movie and every one of the people who like it have to invent the reasons it makes sense [ __ ] why would combining your human blood have why why was that even in this was it was it something to do with religious stuff is that why i he uses religious talkie-talkie but because he has blood of my blood at one point yeah i don't know if he's just eccentric weirdo who knows quotes from things because how do you know that mixing your blood with the corpse of an alien will resurrect it and turn it into a monster nobody told you that the machine i can told you yeah i still think it's absurd but this is the thing there is an issue in the through line and he's just missed where it is it's not that the machine gave him the information it's that the machine had the capacity to give him full control over the ship and thus providing the information that's where the problem is why why is it that somebody who's just stumbles into the embryo gu room can take full control of the ship that's insane that seems not yeah that's absolutely broken premise that the plot's running on and so that's what kind of what i mean about like it's like no he found out the machines like how did he do that i'm like oh no fingerprints oh shut up so if you think the senator doesn't do the things he wants he wants an import license from her and doesn't get it remember you pointed out that he wanted more kryptonite but she said so she was pushing back against lex luthor she's against bringing in the kryptonite to use as a weapon he knows mixing his blood with zod will create a monster because there's a scene where he's in the ship and starts learning as much as he can you use the part of that see this is what i was talking about because of cosmonauts phrasing he's lost the argument against this guy in terms of how he's responding to it but he's not getting to the important bits i would argue or at least those two like see how the rest go seen in your video the kryptonian archive contains knowledge from a hundred thousand different worlds i just like that that's confirmation of how far the kryptonians got before they apparently lost their entire civilization hundreds of thousands of systems was like yo okay good teach me acknowledging presence of foreign genetic material advising i want to see the scene where she says this which is like if you add your blood it'll make him what like yeah why yes i mean [ __ ] it just say the computer's like uh that's inconclusive we have no idea what will happen and then he goes i can't guarantee what the results are then we need to i don't know i don't want to bond with it in a way that we can't anticipate and then we've been done before that then they'll just just cut away and then come back to him he's like so what if i just prick my finger like nope it has to be from the palm of your hand what if i want to use my hand later that's not reasonable forbidden it has been decreed by the council of krypton that none will ever again yes yes yeah that doesn't say it it can't happen they're saying that they don't want it to happen but like because obviously like babies can be made this isn't my interest though they don't allow that how did lex discover this as a possibility fine fine fine but like there's obvious bigger implications of just how stupid all this is crying yeah is like crying here why maybe the cut really hurt yeah it's fair enough i mean if i would have cut myself there yeah i might shed a tear too that looks like a really [ __ ] painful place to cut yourself you idiot stop cutting your hands that's where he learned to do it created wednesday as a salesman if you listen in the background it doesn't get to the final stage until after the hour he gave superman is up late late says the white rabbit that is not this comes back to the nuke thing it's not a fail-safe for superman to release something that is arguably more powerful than him a nuke a regular nuke generator and something that has no interest in mankind in any way shape or form how is that a fail-safe for superman that is a that is uh that seems like a desperation panic move by a crazy person it's like i can't even if um you know thanos had like wiped out the avengers and uh he was about to destroy earth and we could release we could create and release doomsday i'd be like holy [ __ ] this might be something we have to do i'm not sure yeah and that's actually really interesting by the way there's a storyline to have to release a horrifying monster that could turn on you yeah how bad do things have to get it's like in um remember in 300 they have that weird giant chained up and they release him to fight the spartans that's a yeah a weird moment but yeah there you go release a monster to attack the people you don't like hey another zack snyder right [Music] head short 30 seconds to animation so if batman kills superman he can just end the process if superman kills i don't even know that's he doesn't do anything why can't he i don't know uh and how does he know that he like uh some flopsy stuff right there but it doesn't take away from how [ __ ] stupid it is to release doomsday anyway batman that he's got doomsday to fall back on and if superman kills lex and doomsday is a ticking time bomb now he doesn't know for certain wait so so he's saying that if superman had said [ __ ] it my mom's dead anyway i'm gonna lazy you that doomsday will be cooking and will automatically release regardless like as if let's just laser the embryo pod and it would have like yes but also i'm just like i'm blown away by the fact that lex is like it doesn't matter if i die my crazy mutant monster thing will hopefully arrive and kill you anyway it's like what the [ __ ] lex what kind of brilliant antagonist what is with you big smarts i just don't understand that batman killer man which is why he pushes him into wanting to do it like i said earlier he knows batman is getting more violence so why not see how far you can push him by sending him the checks how do you know that that wouldn't make him more violent toward lex rather than superman what if he was actually intelligent and he figured out what was happening yeah being more violent doesn't mean you're getting stupider none of this in any way has like a through line it's all just random guesswork and it's actually going for things that are less likely that's the really weird thing this is back with me that he was intercepting when they blame the news to make superman look bad like in the beginning and blown up the capital building but it did not take much to push him over actually little red notes big bang you let your fam yeah we went over all this it's [ __ ] stupid i'm sorry why would lex be under the impression that batman will now kill superman because of those notes at the same time he is swaying superman to not like batman by having the criminals killed that he sends the prison and sending the images of it to clark yeah but that doesn't mean superman's gonna kill him which means you'll take issues who get killed in prison we don't even know like this is the thing that would be an interesting thing to ask batman in the movie you never get to have that nope in fact he's choosing to brand people by the [ __ ] end credits yeah can i also just offer some minor criticism to this guy please enunciate when you're doing your video essay more pronunciate your words out with that yeah he's he's slur he talks too quickly he doesn't plan ahead for what he's going to say which is odd for a maybe not scripted but a like a released and produced video you know it's not all off the cuff but he's constantly slurring his words he needs to calm down he needs to relax there is no hurry now let's go over the fight it doesn't matter it's time to fight time to have the battle that the movie's named after pow pew pew bion oh no batman's losing time to use a smoke bomb to trick the man who has x-ray vision yeah yep i pointed that out that was a that's a really dumb thing that's weird so [ __ ] stupid oh look now batman's winning because he farted on superman and this scene really reads like it was made by someone who greatly prefers batman over superman i think that we've all pointed this out right i mean this fight's dumb it's a really dumb fight yeah there's only very specific isolated dare i say instances moments this thing to be as kind as possible there are tiny fragments of things i like in the fight but most of it is absolutely stupid i'm honestly surprised by how similar his analysis of the fight is to hours right down to referring to the kryptonite gas as far gas yeah like it's actually kind of endearing i think a lot of people probably made that uh it's just a lot of people made that you know connection it just looks like it green gas coming out like that it's just how cartoons do farts a lot of the time so i think it's hard to separate it but you know good stuff podcast batman wins the fight it's dumb i'm not gonna waste any more time on it clearly he wasn't amused so a few things here first the smoke bomb earlier in the movie you can see grenades that had the symbol for lead on them so it wouldn't be far-fetched that bruce learned about superman not being able to see through lead from the information he stole from lex because earlier we saw that lex used lead to hide the bottom superman so he more than likely mixed it in with the smoke grenade second what the reason besides what wait like lead with smoke how does that i like i don't even know that that's the thing like lead particles wouldn't that no that wouldn't like work though that would only make it all fuzzy even if that was true but i don't think you can do it like i i why would lining the grenade with lead change anything once it's out of the grenade maybe he's so that superman wouldn't see the krypton gas no that's compressed inside of the that's fine we talked about the smoke one so he's saying that was the smoke like full of lead yeah he's saying that he managed i guess is it oxidized i don't even know but like in the smoke there is lead in the smoke so you couldn't see through it also if that's viable just a second let me see like i said it would just make him fuzzy if it were true well dare i say it this is one of those things that actually should be shown on screen like he's got some sort of x-ray machine that he's got running on some uh smoke bombs and he's testing it out and we see oh he finally has managed to make a smoke that can't be uh like seen through by an x-ray something like that anything so yeah so we we've developed smoke grenades that um obscure like infrared ranges and stuff like that instead of just what we see um so i i can totally believe that you you have a cloud and it's full of different particles and so it obscures different kinds of vision yeah i could i could i'll i will believe the lead smoke but it would like i said keep saying it would make him fuzzy he would have seen he was standing in one position smoke is released and then he would have seen that still though the entity would be there compared to everything else it would just be less well i i i think that just depends on how good it works so we just have to assume that it does work really well then i i would assume that if it was built by batman for that purpose it would work hang on uh oh you know what actually i just googled this lead poisoning occurs when lead is ingested breathing in dust that contains lead can also cause it so this would be a really dumb idea for batman to do oh you mean like if you would actually breathe it in yeah because if batman were to breathe in uh lead smoke then i mean he would get lead poisoning well he gets out of the cloud right he like sets it off and moves away but he's still going to be in the cloud for some time i mean i i think that considering what he believes the stakes would be a few seconds and lead gas would be all right a weird one i need uh yeah i wouldn't i think that'd be i think that's totally fine i wouldn't you know i wouldn't say he's an idiot for it what i'd say he's an idiot for is not having his mouth covered well so funny enough i'm kind of realizing like why do i even care like the on the list of problems the the x-ray through that's like number thirty-six because we just kind of care you know we just i just yeah like i like to get things um but yeah like this fight has so many issues that one is is in there for me but i don't know how high up and to be honest with you like yeah i'm just desperately latching onto things that i can find interesting about just this i'm thinking about it whole thing even if it only made him fuzzy that's still good enough i suppose the superman would be like huh and then yeah maybe he wouldn't be able to make out him like grabbing for a piece of gear because batman's goal is to make him confused for just even a second so he can shoot the the fart gas at him yeah which is weird because he opens the fight and gets two easy hits with the miniguns and with the sonic pulse wave thingies but what the [ __ ] ever i guess we didn't want to tip any of those bullets with kryptonite i think a fair question as well i don't know if we've talked about but like why did batman think that superman was coming because i guess um oh um they had met before and superman said don't come so you shine your light in your sky yeah who's just kind of hoping then yeah which i think is not unreasonable superman clearly cared enough about batman to show up the first time to tell him to stop so i assume that it would be reasonable that superman would show up a second time to make good on his promise to you know kill batman if he had to i guess because we did make the launch here jokes just awkward if batman's just like if he didn't i hope he turns up too i guess batman has nothing to lose if he doesn't yeah he could just come up next night and then the next night try again wait i suppose um i just still find it funny ultimately like if she just had that spear from the get-go super superman arrives and he's just like whoa what the [ __ ] falls over and then batman's like well you're [ __ ] i already win but that wouldn't be a fun fight now would it no we have to have a fun fight like what we got it's because he not planned to fight superman but he also rendered him weak by using the kryptonite superman didn't plan the fight until he was forced to he also didn't think that he was gonna get hit by something that could weaken him i also like to mention that he could have no so when when superman says no way lex wants us to and then gets hit he could have kept saying like because remember the gatling guns they don't really do anything the mini guns don't do anything to him because he's superman yeah uh the sonic thing only disables him for a little mo a few moments and it's at that point superman can continuously say wait i don't want to fight you you know explanation but he doesn't ever do it he tries feebly once and just never again it's worth saying that this guy just said that superman didn't think that there would be a weapon that batman could use to weaken him so at that point superman knowing how invulnerable he is he's got all the time in the world to just explain well not all the time in the world because he's on a timer but he uh he can easily explain without any risk to his own safety hey they have my mom yeah stop [ __ ] around i need to talk to you we're being manipulated getting punched over and over again that should be the moment of like okay so i might be in serious danger and my mom's about to die i need to stop begging batman um but instead he gets uh he gets annoyed lex is behind it something batman's like well superman's like i don't like the punching i'm gonna punch you back well i think so given how um superman reacts to getting uh shoved by that one dude in the bar and everything it's like he could literally just stand there and let batman try to punch him continuously as he just explains the situation no he has to punch back because he's annoyed and it applies to the opening of the fight as well he's just like i want to throw you in like and you're like why superman it's like i want to [ __ ] drive you through a whole building now like what what why why why like how and then i'm gonna go to your batmobile out in the parking lot and i'm gonna put a bunch of logs through it that's another example of superman did someone know nobody was in that building when he did that what building i don't know what the one he when he threw batman into yeah when he drove batman through one of them all the way up to the top i assume he has x-ray vision well so and then i was going to appeal to is superman aware that if you destroy like an apartment building or i guess it's an abandoned building was it was that was the it's abandoned it's definitely abandoned it's one of those things where i'm just like it's it's it's it like that in in and of itself is much cleaner than anything else that we've been talking about with superman but at the same time just like the writers just made it that way because they're so [ __ ] oh this place is abandoned there's no civilians here don't worry there's not mass destruction because really it's just a building yeah it's annoying to me because this is such a disproportionate response to whatever batman's been doing to superman at this point has not been hurting him that much no well this is the thing it's like a little kid i don't know [ __ ] slapping your knees you're just like okay stop me like right that's it i'm gonna [ __ ] punch you in the face and then re-explain my positions like whoa mm-hmm but he uh he does it anyway because he's really patty which is slapping this is closer to like flicking your knees like it's just not doing anything yeah um and it's arguably worse as well because if anybody wanted to try and argue this is in character because he is a petty superman i'd be like his mother's in danger you've already tried to use the argument that his mother being in danger is why he would drive zod through a [ __ ] ihop so of course he should be explaining to batman the situation but he just [ __ ] stops because he sucks discussion amongst comments and superhero fans is that batman could potentially defeat anyone if given enough prep time i mean he's got plans for the whole just league and he's even killed darkseid this has nothing to do with also i like that he shows of batman's shooting dark side to death i just find that amusing for it's like the biggest trolley problem for batman ever like the the whole universe or one life and he takes it because of course you would so the fight beside it isn't surprising considering the planning and the advantage he had with the kryptonite and then we get to the most misunderstood scene in the whole movie oh misunderstood that's the word of the day i want to go ahead and guess i'm assuming he doesn't understand it you know however right before batman uses the magic alien spear to execute superman the dumbest [ __ ] in the movie happens superman [Music] this is dumb but it's sort of in a weird way makes some level of sense to some degree it's just kind of nuts i don't know i feel that way i don't think i do anymore i don't want to be seen as contrarian to cosmonaut because i think it's perfectly fair for him to say that this is the dumbest scene in the movie in his opinion i'm just saying i'm not sure if this is the dumbest scene because there's a lot to unpack however this is the one that jettisoned many people out of the movie yes in the theater when they first saw it like this is obviously stupid it might yeah argument for why this might be the stupidest thing in the whole movie is uh running with the consequence aspect right so this turns from movie a to movie b this whole scene this changes the whole thing yeah i don't believe it is in batman's characters he's been presented in this movie to stop for this reason i was especially as soon as uh i remembered seeing the line where he's like your parents taught you blah blah blah the the knowledge that superman has a mother should change absolutely nothing yeah um i think that when were re-watching the film when he said your parents are like oh wait wait wait hol i thought yeah so you know that he has parrots and then the idea that the idea that superman is in because another argument that gets made is like well no it's superman appealing to someone's life that's not his own it's like bruce already knows that superman saves people's lives he's seen it many many times so that wouldn't change anything either um so batman is dare i say i feel weird saying this he is assassinated in this scene as a character this is not something he would have done and it changes everything dramatically and it's incredibly significant meanwhile the whole trajectory of the dc eu and yeah you have to understand the context i'm saying he's assassinated as presented in this film not you know anything other than that and then because of these details that kind of like are collected it's just it really is he's motivated by his like their mothers having the same name yes it's incredibly [ __ ] stupid but then the flip side because i think that this counts with this scene as we turn everything over superman is convinced by batman to go and inspect the the ship doing weird things while batman saves his mother's life i think that's incredibly stupid too [ __ ] on the verge of assassination as well so it's like this is this is an incredibly destructive scene as well as leading to the third act which it wouldn't happen had batman had you know acted the way he should have um so yeah i i think it's competition for the stupidest thing in the whole movie i'm not sure if it is i'd have to think about it because i think the creation of doomsday might be the stupidest thing in the whole movie okay the question the question is will cosmonaut point it out like like point out those same reasons for why this is the stupidest thing in the whole movie yeah i guess we'll find out moments first his mother by her first name which causes batman to realize that's also strange oh my gosh he's literally me who the [ __ ] refers to their mother by their first name especially as your final words before you are being killed this is the one thing that stops batman's murder quest cold turkey he switches to being superman's [ __ ] best friend yeah and i think that's almost what makes it worse is how it's not a begrudging partnership it's like no i really like you now button pressed switch is flicked martha has begun yeah it's really odd it's like i would way prefer it if batman was like okay me and you we're not good but look at this bigger things at hand right now yeah just remember where we were we'll get back to this um you know it's a bit hyperbolic to say he's his best friend i just mean like the attitude and the atmosphere is really [ __ ] odd it's it's a complete yeah they seem to be on totally positive well like jokes now later right when he's like do you get the spirit he's like been kind of busy so that i thought i missed a scene of them yeah might i suggest a way to improve the scene by not having martha's name dropped at all yeah um if lois simply runs in there um and tries to put herself between uh batman and clark and there's like a more obvious emphasis on batman realizing that he's become like joe chill i feel like that would like get a point way better like she gets in the way batman grabs her and throws her like to the ground or away and then she starts like [ __ ] bowling her eyes out and begging him to stop i think i think the man that killed his parents he's the robber yeah yeah i am the robber that would that's already leagues better than what we got so why didn't they just do that it may not even work they have the same name isn't that it it may not have even been good in execution if they did it i just think the concept itself is better than however something we like to do is what's like the smallest of tweaks that can have the biggest of impacts and it's just like that already just makes the scene [ __ ] way better actually reconciling i don't think it's weird that superman called his mother by her first name what did you want him to say save my mom yes yes yes you've got it yes you did it you nailed it you did it you did it what a ridiculous [ __ ] thing save my mob who would say that who would refer to their mother as my mom who would do that why would you do this in your own video i don't really remember the last time i ever referred to my mom by her first name i don't i don't think i yeah i don't like only for maybe legal reasons would i do that and i've never been in like a situation where i've needed to yeah okay i want to run a little scenario about you guys here you're in a bar guy picks a fight with you in the bar there's a big fight that you have with this guy and you're like he he's been trying to kill you okay and so you're about to kill him in self-defense and suddenly he goes wait wait my mom's in danger like surely you'd stop won't be like wait what like you're you're being forced to fight me because your mom's being held hostage what's the deal here i assume you'll point man told me if i didn't start a fight with you he'd kill my mom oh i was gonna say you should give you more paws for thought than the guy in the fight saying save martha you'd be like what what if he said save my mob you'd be like wait wait what's going on here like what what is that what are you referring to is she like on dialysis so you need me to go to go help her out because you're not going to be able to if i kill you but save martha yeah you have to win this fight for the prize money so i can buy her insulin it's uh it doesn't um sorry folks it's shite this scene does not survive scrutiny at all our first name what did you want him to say save my mom he only has a few moments left so he pleads for the life of another and tries to get out as much as you know my mom and martha have the same amount of syllables i like how he said like it's such a ridiculous thing but it didn't argue for why he just moved on yeah maybe i mean it's just so obvious go to the family mother like his mom [ __ ] makes more sense to do with another and tries to get out as much as possible so that maybe batman could save her because he didn't go to batman with the attention you really think the information save martha is going to allow batman to save her versus save my mum if batman was like all right so alfred here's what i know someone in gotham presumably possibly metropolis cold martha is in danger okay and it's like sorry oh [ __ ] batman i'll fire up the batmobile for you bruce this is not very helpful aren't you busy fighting superman mention a fight i have to go to gotham to convince him to help me bruce please don't try to argue that superman did everything he could to convince bruce because he didn't he did the bare minimum that allows the fight to continue it's like a token attempt even i don't even think this this the fight should have continued i think bruce should have been [ __ ] fascinated by the fact that he said i was wrong lex has been trying like lex is [ __ ] with us it's like oh [ __ ] are you not interested tell me more i was wrong you have to listen to me and his reaction isn't someone who's just noticing a coincidence he's basically having a ptsd flashback he's panicking right now thinking about his parents death and i wouldn't say he became superman's best friend if you look at him he looks like he's begging for a chance to save her maybe in a way by saving her he can find peace and not being able to save his own mom because he couldn't yeah yeah that's what everyone says about this because that's all you can draw out of it i get it yeah but the problem is we're not dealing with a batman that's doing his first ever kill this is a man who's killed many people the idea that uh this was the one that made him feel like he could be the very person he was trying to stop or couldn't it's like [ __ ] off i feel like either he's a really strange person or he thought about this before and didn't care and then he goes from this scene to shooting up a bunch of people with his gatling gun on top of his bout with that wing and then crushing people's skulls in with crates i would just i just want to be on this [ __ ] the call the skype call with him and alfred and he's like i've got to go save his mom you'd be like wait what isn't he like there's a one percent chance you could destroy a slow you gotta stop him what happened what what's going on well i'm bad at math i feel bad i don't want no time to explain alfred there's a woman in martha and danger if i say for i save my mom in my mind it's very important psychological so have you taken your credit so now that the fight between batman superman happens it's time for the final battle with doomsday oh that's that's all the defense you had for that scene right okay then moving right along glad we added all of our criticisms yeah and this is officially where the movie enters the realm of being too stupid to be forgiven this movie yes it was already there but okay yeah we passed that point a long time ago i hope he mentions the walking nuke thing and the batman protects himself under a brick like i just i want it come on please throw it in has officially become a bad video game there's not even anything i can say about this they're just slamming into each other and then wonder woman shows up and she slams into him and then batman watches because he's just a regular guy is she with you i thought she was with you what you've met her batman she's i i don't know maybe you could argue the batman thought despite having met her that she's in some way connected to superbad i guess she never explained about who she is right no no yeah you know there's there's room to yeah whatever i don't know is your friend who knows her you know who she is if you noticed in man of steel and here he keeps describing the fights as just slamming into each other that's because that's basically how a lot of these fights go oh bad count yeah um so he's right one [ __ ] i don't care if that's how it goes in any other content we actually know for a fact that wonder woman can do more than that we see her do more than that uh superman can do more than that he tries to and then gives up for no reason batman yeah he's just a guy he's just gonna be watching so not only does the film counter his point because uh there are instances where the heroes can do a lot more but they just choose not to uh i don't care if it happened in the in the animation and also there's something to be said about like maybe the reason it's in the animation is because they just didn't have the money to do better like you know you have lots of money you have no limitations really what you can do i mean [ __ ] that you have a vision right yes that's right so why are you why are you that's right why are you leaning on the comics the visionary director exactly your visionary zechariah schneider could lead us to glory basically forth until one of them gets the advantage especially with doomsday because he's getting stronger and stronger and shows that he's stronger than all three of them also this line right here well i mean not the sword that cuts his arm off but that's all right whatever in that clip he had they push each other and then he lays him and there's a bus was put in the way presumably he knew it was empty and then he uses like um a portion of the bridge that's been destroyed to hit doomsday it's like that's already way more interesting than simply hitting each other like back and forth using your environment is obviously one of the first things you might think of when trying to make the fight more interesting i feel like this might just be a zakis snuffer snuffering suffering from a lack of imagination and creativity god forbid because people are dying so it's snuffering was referring to the fact that she just deflected doomsday's heat vision and he was guessing that she was another kryptonian alien until superman asked if she was with him clearly he knows who she is he sends her the i like how that's a reasonable thing batman would think oh do you mean like compared to everything else he says or thinking thinking that wonder woman might would be is also a kryptonian sure um yeah that was i don't know whatever that criticism tiny iota's tiny little itty-bitty pieces that you're picking out of this then marcus poop says this also i love that on two separate occasions we have to have characters say that the places they're fighting in are abandoned strikers island east of machamp yeah that's a funny thing why did you bring him back to the city the port is abandoned because we can't make fun of this movie please don't make yeah i think that's definitive evidence that zach found out about the criticism and became very self-conscious he was like oh [ __ ] that's really [ __ ] stupid of me yeah yeah millions are dead i should not have that happen next yeah as the director maybe i have the power to stop this yeah as has been the case with like a lot of things that i've heard cosmos sayings like guys you better not push it back against cosplay for this because i know for a fact that we've made these criticisms ourselves well you're talking to this guy right tex is gonna push back on this apparently so good luck we're gonna do make fun of you see the final battle didn't kill any innocent people yes it's strange that the military and wonder woman would be worried about civilians getting hurt come on man that's the thing that's that's what he said um is that this is a a fix this is an improvement see yeah zach can improve things he he took the criticism from a previous movie and he is working towards maybe in a clumsy and un imaginative way but he is he's doing good he's doing better he's trying he does care there's a part of him that cares and knows it let's try and bump up this well it's not even a steel man because it's not in any way his argument so what if i said well hey in this movie batman is deliberately taking him to a place he knows is uninhabited like that's different from it just happens to be a place that's uninhabited um the one where doomsday falls on an island you could say it's very lucky that he fell on that island but at least the island's small enough that it could reasonably be assumed that there's just nothing on there and tourists aren't allowed to go on there it is an empty island you'll be like there's more reason for these places to be uninhabited than per usual and of course the characters would be invested in finding out whether or not that is true so it all lines up however i will concede it's pretty overt and the reasoning is because people had concerns from man of steel instead he said well of course people care about whether or not it's an inhabitant okay billions getting hurt come on man so yeah superman totally dies like for real not clickbait and the civilians that hate him mourn his death and the guy who only knew him for an hour mourns his death i failed him dude you tried to stab him to death in a dirty warehouse you weren't [ __ ] friends yes people mourn his death because he gave his life to stop doomsday people were so concerned about his intentions and questioned his existence but after he sacrificed himself they realized that they were wrong about him also yeah he had a lot he had a lot of fans he he was he was the probably the most popular single person on the planet when your movies are this broken it just it's always going to fail um and the instance here would be superman has done a lot to save people's lives throughout this already why is it that this one makes a huge difference in terms of like how people see him he's like well he died for it like well i mean at the same time yeah that helps but he already had a lot going for him like this there wasn't a there wasn't a mind to change i mean the general center is confusing even after the way that he handled the battle of metropolis he was still helping some people in his life so i mean the the the attitudes are strange we don't really understand the public perception and of course it super applies to batman he's like i failed him you're like mate your reasoning was he had the potential to destroy the earth and so we have to stop him you decided against that when you found out his mum and your mum of the same name like i what do you what is it that you regret that trying to kill him like the reason to kill him hasn't changed so it just must mean that you feel you were mistaken now that's it which by the way yeah of course that's why it's i was never invested in like the idea of you have to kill anything that has the potential to do anything bad to a wide scale it's [ __ ] weird but batman is as he feels partly responsible for his death since he was so blinded by rage and fear and plan to kill him that has nothing to do with his death like superman's death and their combat in in the uh empty warehouse place has nothing to do with each other those two things are entirely yeah it's weird that's that's what's so weird is that their their relationship just sort of changes if anything uh bruce's desire to kill superman is what gave them the chance to kill uh doomsday because the spear so uh the idea that he somehow led to superman's like the way you want to do that i guess is that during their fight he manages to [ __ ] superman in some way and superman can not win the fight easily against doomsday but that's not what happened a different movie you described in there also about him he's referring to failing him as a hero batman has fallen so far from his morals that it's through superman's death that he realized that he should have followed his example amazing to me but like batman has this huge change of heart because superman died trying to stop a bad guy sorry following so batman should have been following superman's example while superman was living um even after again the metropolis incident and didn't superman kill the kryptonians too yeah aren't they similar in that vein or am i am i lost here i just don't get it and why would this be new to batman he's been heroing for 20 years he said that everybody is either like died or become evil how is he not way more seasoned than clark isn't he suggesting that the moral of the story is that batman should have just uh basically shrugged off all the damage that the collateral damage in metropolis then which yeah which again this is why i'm bothered by it there's so many references that are so contradictory to each other like you can't frame this in any way but not pragmatically yeah you should have uh well that's the thing like if the movie wanted us to think batman was wrong to take issue with superman i'd be like no you've gone too far in the other direction now i think it's stupid he wanted to kill him but i also think it's stupid that to think the superman did nothing badly in man of steel we don't get to have it don't get it we don't get that yeah there's discussions and conversations that would be interesting there's definitely like an area of nuance that the film just manages to completely miss it always goes and like too far in one direction and too far in the other never meets in that nice little sweet spot in the middle where there could be an interesting discussion hat about superman and his place in the world part of what i remember getting so hyped for when i first started watching civil war and in the theater um one of the things i didn't quite like about winter soldier and this wasn't a flaw with the film was uh cap's decision to down all of the uh the aircraft carriers because i remember thinking to myself like it's in character it's just that oh my god the amount of resource he just destroyed and the amount of people that might be in trouble from where they've landed like oh i don't know about this i don't know how i feel about this but then civil war is like you did that and it did stuff and i was like oh yeah oh like the world recognizes that it would have results that's so cool they're still cleaning off the debris and uh homecoming yeah and again i believe cap would make that decision but uh as it shocks fury when he first says he's gonna do it i imagine you could argue with a few he's only shocked because of a resource position but i guess i think [ __ ] he buries rumlow who knows how many people could have been killed in those buildings because cap doesn't know that everyone's out you know but it's it's a serious moment there's lots to discuss about it and it's one of the bigger things that leads to civil war and i was like yay woohoo we did it hooray and batman threatens to brand him like a cow and send him to arkhamus oh yeah so batman's still okay with brad dig that's kind of funny right like in the end and he's on the friends who will [ __ ] with people who've bid brad did and he's okay like what exactly is batman lid nothing nothing at all asylum to be murdered just to remind you that batman did not learn his lesson batman does learn his lesson if you listen to the speech at the end man is still good we fight men are still good said batman oh god we kill we betray one another but we can rebuild we can do better we will it's so [ __ ] embarrassing that he had to he got this from superman dying jesus we have to mankind makes mistakes but it can get better because there is still good left in mankind and through superman's example he's it's taught me that it's disappointing it's disappointing to me that someone who's been superheroing for like i said 20 plus years he's only now learning that men can be good what the [ __ ] like what do you think he's trying to do what's this whole point does batman believe that he wasn't trying to do good and then how do you reconcile that with the branding scene exactly he's going to be that's why he says he won't fail him in death i failed him in life i won't fail him in death he also doesn't brand lex at the end he more so just scares him instead and punches the wabash no no he was going to brandon but then lex says i'm insane but he's just like i'm going to transfer you arkham also how is this evidence that batman has lived where he [ __ ] violently punches the wall with his like man i guess he's learned to take out his aggression on inanimate objects instead of people god lucky you just need to spread the word if he's about to brand you say no no i'm insane batman i'm insane please don't kill me then you're okay just tell them you're crazy that makes it so much better baba won't kill them if they're insane beside him showing that he has changed and now that luther is considered criminally insane he wants to send him to arkham to keep an eye on him well no doesn't he say in a really threatening way like god said in a threatening way yeah he's hoping to transfer him there to get [ __ ] up i don't know what film you're watching i'm insane i'm not even fit to stand trial that's right we have hospitals to treat them wait doesn't that mean that he already knew that he was insane if he says that's right like it means he was gonna brand him whether or not he was that's how i um yeah that's how i'd read it honestly with compassion but that's not where you're going yeah he said that we have places to treat people like that with compassion but that's not where you're going yeah you're not getting compassion how does that come across to you as anything but a threat for you to get transferred to arkham asylum in god that there are people who watch this movie and like it um i can with most movies i cannot there's a lot of there's a lot of weird people who just like weird [ __ ] and they try to justify it for whatever irrational reason for people who love mando yeah well marcus likes philosophers too he thinks swan division was pretty good right yeah people said yeah he gave up there's a lot of irrational people who are [ __ ] crazy does he like tlj i can't remember yeah he does uh so what's interesting is like he um he doesn't believe in like objective quality which is fine i agree with him in that sense um but it's interesting because he's saying oh there are people that i mean you don't what do you mean he objective quality wait what what do you mean uh he doesn't believe in objective quality well i i think that he believes that the way that we look at movies isn't objective can you agree with him um not for the reasons that he would provide um the point is that i find it interesting that he's talking about how there are people that watch this movie and like it and yet he's a like a very much a subjective person but all of us agree it's fine to like pretty much any movie well my positions changed on that it's a very very specific i understand that anyone can like anything at any point but like and i don't really consider this a change it's more of just being more specific like everyone believes that there's limits to what we were okay with other people liking like when it comes to lots of different pieces of media and i don't need to make extreme examples but you could probably imagine what i'm talking about if you find out your friends thoroughly enjoy watching a particular type of of thing happening in a movie over and over again you probably like wow i think it's [ __ ] disgusting that you like this i condemn the fact that you like this now someone could be like well what the [ __ ] that gonna do with like random superhero movies just like well no i'm just saying that we do actually hold that position and there are certain things for example what wonder woman does in 184 if someone said like oh i really like that she did that it's so cool we'd be like oh yeah that's um it's a little disturbing actually but okay uh or defending what wanda did in one division but of course in the context that that was doing here like i don't have much trouble understanding why people like a lot of really [ __ ] media because oftentimes you can see like you know like boba fett beating people up you're like oh i know why i know why people like it it's super cool um yeah i don't know maybe just saying it'd be hyperbolic so i'm sure cosmonaut actually does in real terms would be like yeah anyone can like anything it doesn't surprise me unless he's going to argue that this film is like the most miserable film he's ever seen that that's hilarious coming from the guy who looks captain marvel and the last jedi people in glass houses marcus what uh uh you you like batman vs superman yeah people in glossary you think that well steel is the best superman movie he didn't make the claim that he can't understand people liking oh yeah it's true anything he just said it's interesting that you would say it when because that's what we just said we just said it's interesting that he would make the clay what he likes colossus two et cetera um which by the way i think that's a particularly useful example because lossless 2 is [ __ ] miserable like yeah so you know what how about you recommend me a game what were you thinking the last of us too joel wow okay there you go oh he's gonna say the joel thing is not a [ __ ] beloved character get the [ __ ] out of here okay yeah so that was a [ __ ] thing he said in the past but that's irrelevant to what he's saying now um well he's saying it in response to him saying that he can't understand anyone liking bvs which i mean even i'm like yeah i can understand people like in bvs yeah i understand why people hundreds of them now let's talk about this interpretation of batman marcus clearly isn't a fan of it and i fully believe that there are some things you should never change when it comes to batman number one batman doesn't use gun but why there are many instances of him not only using them in the comics but there are there are easily things you can write that he would need to use one what do you think a grappling hook is the very first batman comics would show him killing people and using guns as far as i'm concerned you can write him in a way that he [ __ ] hates guns or you can write him that he thinks it's okay to use guns i'd like it's just the idea that you cannot write a batman that uses guns to me i'm just like oh like it's some sort of intrinsic property of what batman is as a concept or a thing what people would say to them you have to explain that [ __ ] also this wouldn't be the first time that we see uh batman using guns on like the batmobile or the bat pod in the dark knight i mean doesn't he use an actual like mini gun thing in batman 89 though what i say that i think some people consider batman 89 to be very unfaithful so what do i know yeah this is the thing we know this exists we know loads of people think that batman cannot use guns as a definitive so we'll have to see where this goes no batman doesn't kill people number three oh yeah i don't know what to tell you about that he has he's but like somebody else than he often does usually some of those popular portrayals in movies haven't killing people i don't know what to tell you he does more than he doesn't like again okay literally every live-action version of batman outside of george clooney has killed at least one person yeah this is my hands feel tired at this point like i can't even i don't need to provide a defense because i know you people like it when he does this he's done it in loads of his movies stop lying to me unless there's just no good batman except for george clooney i don't think anyone has that position we're gonna say i was just gonna say i think that it it can be interesting to explore um batman feeling conflicted about yeah like whether or not to kill certain characters i just i just don't want to close the door on it that's all i'm saying like let's let's make it interesting let's apply it to his carry let's make it an important part whatever you want to do but the idea you cannot have him like the second he kills or takes a life in any way shape or form he's no longer like a well-written batman i'm just like uh oh but mahler were supposed to be the ones that limit creativity and what writers are allowed to do three doesn't use [ __ ] guns to kill people so it's no surprise that his version of batman gets rid of all nuance distills him down to an angle whoa okay did i say the same thing i don't want to misrepresent him we'll replay it but just in case i thought that there was an implication there that if batman uses guns to kill people you've lost all nuance like there's not a nuanced way to even provide that context well isn't it what he does this is a natural implication like punisher is not nuanced because he uses guns to kill people it can't be i don't know let's play it again people number three batman doesn't use [ __ ] guns to kill people so it's no surprise that his version of batman gets rid of all nuance and just distills him down to an angry punching man now if you're the kind of person who thinks batman should kill people because it's more realistic well that's okay but you and i can't be friends if you think that way like appealing to realism event maybe i am what i'm saying like events can take place that would lead to that choice being made yeah if it if there is literally never any scenario where he doesn't use a gun like where's the nuance in that mr nuance that's the opposite of doing that what's funny is like mixed in is like oh he's like a psycho punchy angry man i'm just like i mean yeah like this portrayal is pretty bad but like not necessarily just because he's using guns like that's not he's like crazy and angry sure but they're like internal reasons why this is all [ __ ] do we know if um the batman battenson batman is we do we have any word on him killing yet we don't know yet although we've seen is how he beats down that one thug which is gonna just land him in the hospital for a long time but doesn't look like a kill that's the thing i find fascinating about everyone's love of batman but simultaneous he never kills like the amount of people he must have killed i've i have uh i have frequently made the joke that battenson isn't going to kill because a corpse can't feel pain there you go the way he the way he goes after criminals and and i don't have an issue with it per se i'm i'm you know what if you want to have a very pissed off rookie batman or pissed off experienced batman totally fine um but very funny to say well he you just can't have him kill people it's okay for him to [ __ ] people but not kill wait am i um am i off the mark with this or is that kind of funny that's pretty funny with the red dots you know i mean like that's kind of funny well not the you you get what i mean what i'm saying with these dots like because it's messy yeah because unless is his mask tilted because it's broken i mean if if his mask was not broken it will it looks like the mask is only that is normal except for the part that got broken off and didn't get broken off inwards i guess but okay um so i i guess um yeah i don't think yeah we got a little bit of yeah we got a little bit of mandalorian helmet i don't think he's seeing out of that right eye he's gonna have a bit of trouble that's okay value is that he values life above everything else because his world was shattered okay so if valuing life above everything else does not translate to i will never under any circumstance end a single life yeah if batman has to choose between a life and many lives he will obviously choose the many lives if lives are if each individual one is sacred to him batman is not so stupid an idiot it would be a character assassination of batman in almost all of his iterations if he did not kill the one to save the many i generally hate the uh the idea that if batman kills um like the idea that killing people in self-defense or in defense of others is immoral which is like that's what police do it's what soldiers do it's what sometimes regular civilians have to do like i just that's why i don't have an opposition to batman killing because there are situations where people have to kill to preserve life to preserve innocent life and that is what i would call the nuance because simply saying he doesn't kill people so he won't to me i'm like oh that's a bit i don't know that feels a little limited the opposite of nuanced yeah that's the opposite of nuance and the idea especially by the way i think it's much more interesting for batman to compare himself to the people who killed his parents when he is killing someone not because he's trying to save someone else's life but because he wants that person dead that's when he should be like wait what am i turning into what have i done like i think i'm going too far why people kill the people they kill is a very important aspect of their character if they're in bat women's i mean though that is technically true if they're in batman's role you know they should be able to tell the difference between why am i killing this person do i want to what do i derive from doing this we're once again highlighting like oh why did they do that at bvs like my motive to kill superman isn't to save people it's just i want him dead because i just don't you need him to like realize like my motive to kill him is so lacking in any kind of like rationality or purity that it's it's it's affecting me as a person and it's turning me into the thing that i i started all of this for to avoid you know it's there's so much about him that's so interesting to think about as a character and just i just think that whenever someone locks off the potential for him to end a life you you've taken away some really powerful storytelling and you know what his uh his origin can change right like his origin reason i mean so like it could be he never wants to become the person that he that took away his parents yeah i did it and it could also be that he never wants to take a life because life is sacred like those two things aren't the same there's two different motives but they're two that are often shared by people who love better batman in the comics so i think that you could come up with several uh motivations at the core that are spurred on by this event and you know what ultimately i thought the people who really respect and and blah blah the comics they they are okay with elseworlds so can't you just canonize anything you don't like about a batman adaptation as elseworld sure and you could even change it after the fact i don't know the whole conversation is frustrating indeed by a act of violence and he wants to prevent anyone from feeling the pain that he felt that day and i'm really into gatekeep superheroes over here you can have different interpretations of the character but i'm just saying there are a lot of things about these characters that people ignore because movies get them wrong as well we look at spiderman and we i i'm i don't know saying that i'm not trying to gatekeep but batman cannot do these things because we have to keep him new once and he also referenced uh the nolan trilogy does he think the nolan trilogy is bad because batman kills a genuine question well you don't know with this guy i don't know i have no idea and i assume he would say well no i just don't think he should have then i'd be like well then how does it work i mean there's situations in the nolan trilogy where i feel like especially when um tackling harvey dent uh to his death it's like well it's between that and letting commissioner gordon's kid possibly die well but that's like our whole point there's like times like that will happen and i'm curious if cosmodore is against them or not act of violence and he wants to prevent anyone from feeling the pain that he felt that day and i'm really not trying to gatekeep superheroes over here you can have different interpretations of the character but i'm just saying there are a lot of things about these characters that people ignore because movies get them wrong as well we look at spider-man and we accept the fact that he doesn't kill people because he's a cute fun guy and he's nice and if he killed people it would make us sad he could kill people you can make a version of spider-man that's a cruel and vindictive person who didn't take advice that was given to him there's there's like been storylines of him using a cloth version of the symbiote suit and going out for vengeance because people target his loved ones i mean but also yeah i was a comic book version of everything if we get the the dream and that is to keep getting spider-man movies with tom holland that is well written that would that's the dream okay i'm not saying it's a reality um i would definitely want one of these stories to test whether or not he would kill somebody if it meant saving more people i i want that to happen totally i want to see what he does and how he deals with it it would help the character like as the character matures and grows up and you know has to sort of face the realities of being an adult i didn't even realize it's so controversial it's like a lot of uh superhero content that i've consumed over the years it's just like yeah if you have a no kill rule superhero one of the obvious things you do is test it yeah i can help the uh captain america civil war opens with the avengers having to kill a bunch of people well you know terrorists not like innocent guys so people just assume you're supposed to murder people if you ask me this mentality is pretty dumb and zack snyder is one of the people who thinks this way i think it's hilarious he uses a panel from a comic where he used a gun to say batman shouldn't use guns now i agree that there are different interpretations and this is one of them but his biggest issue is the killing he mentions it in the beginning and then later on and he uses this clip from an interview with zach cena to help illustrate this you know i tried to do it in that sort of technical way uh i tried to do it like by proxy shoot the car that they're in the car blow up that counts as killing i i'm a little bit confused what is zack trying to say i tried to do it yeah i see like that's still killing though like surely does zach think that if he's not like actually reaching into his chest and pulling out his beating heart personally it doesn't count i'm well confused it's not i'm not it's not me pushing this person off the skyscraper that killed them it's the sudden stop at the ground at the end yeah it's this it's really the laws of physics and i didn't make those i'm not responsible um yeah i agree with cosmonaut that's a really weird thing to say i'd like to know what zack was trying to say with that i've caught a video from a while ago but i'll go over it again here when it comes to batfleck the goal was not to have a young batman it was to have a batman who's been at for two decades who has lost those close to him his parents robin and seen others go bad 20 years in gotham alfred i saw the clip first yeah yeah he's gonna keep playing i guess um so he's like a grizzled batman who thinks you can end lives now because he's seen things go bad you have to do better than that yeah i'm gonna have to you're not to convince me you're gonna have to show me my because i could just as easily believe that he's set in his no kill unless absolutely necessary ways yeah because we i think it was near the beginning of this uh we we were talking about how he has the thing that can disable weapons you know you have a building and there's like loads of men all around it all with guns and there's one person at the top who's a hostage you have to rescue i feel like that's probably like a mission in like all batman games like a stealth mission yeah you have to try and figure out how can you get in and save them while either incapacitating all the men or avoiding as much of them as you can bam i don't give a [ __ ] that's kind of the problem is it's just like oh he doesn't really think anything through he's just gonna you know the equivalent of when you give up and you just start shooting in your stealth game because you're like ah [ __ ] it and it's indicative of his character and that's um i guess it would be nice to know why beyond well he's been around for 20 years and he lost robin like okay yeah i want to see how uh how does batman handle the no country for old man old men problem you've seen what promises are worth how many good guys are left i still wonder how this doesn't apply to him what does he think about this is he is the logic here that he's like there are no such things as good guys so i'm going to be a bad guy and kill people because that just raises so many more questions yeah that's yeah and wait that's worse than him killing somebody i would question why he wants to kill superman at all at that point be like what's the difference but more importantly he's lost his way after he brains the criminal alfred approaches a bit more than losing one's way wouldn't you say yeah it's it's a bit of a leak a little bit more of a like quite a departure we didn't get to talk more about this moment where he so we we highlight how alfred should probably have known about the um the bat uh branding earlier he just doesn't for some reason ignoring that he's like um changing the rules sir like like it's obviously uh referencing how it's like you know branding the people that you've captured and they're getting i'm assuming he's referencing they're getting killed and he's like we've always been criminals alfred nothing's changed he's like that's not really a response yeah that's not yeah like do you think all crimes are equal you think shoplifting and genocide are on the same level and also just alfred's the person you've known this whole time is like wow you you're burning your victims what's that dude [ __ ] we've always been criminals no that that's not that's not at all what the question sir new rules we're criminals alfred they've always been criminals yeah i think yeah i just i just think it's really funny any illegal thing i do is justified because we're vigilantes which by the way what a thing for what a thing for batman to say but once again it's something i think like you could have a story where someone is already a vigilante and so they start to slip and it's like well i i'm already breaking the law that's interesting you can't have it brand people go what were criminals that's the thing is like you can develop this you can start out showing his early days and yeah over time he uh he starts to slip it to waver in his morality and it could be really interesting it could be maybe he uh runs across someone who was really affected by the joker after batman refused to kill the joker he has to kind of come to terms with the fact that his no killing rule is allowing psychopaths to you know run around and continue killing people yeah and that's going to have a you know these effects that he doesn't intend and maybe that kind of pushes him into being like yeah you know what maybe i should kill the criminals that i come across and then you have um you could have it be that he is absolutely okay with killing people to save other people's lives and then you can have it be it goes further and further and then you can have five goons doing goon things he beats them all up and one of them in the report on the newspaper died from their injuries alfred's like damn and he's like brought it on himself like leaves the room like doesn't acknowledge the fact that it's someone's died as a result he's like whatever that's just how it works now like these people got themselves into the situation this is something that needs to be developed over like a trilogy well it would be nice if batman got his own movies uh in the dcu instead of being shoved into a half superman movie that feels like the culmination of a lot of story lines but whatever yeah all of the meaningful history that's how it starts the favor yeah having another character say you've gone bad it's really just not much of anything this this whole thing could be so much more meaningful if this was like 10 years after the first thing and there was this no i was i was like literally thinking like if this was 10 years into developing this character yeah we've had like five movies and three crossover movies or something yeah the feeling of powerlessness that turns good man cruel he's talking about bruce here he's telling him oh you did you think maybe no he's talking about brombo nobody the local fishermen it's just yeah and hell the intro the movie is bruce talking about his own fall from grace referring to batman as a yes why oh my god this is once again the whole like ideas versus execution thing yes i know what zach was going for i get it i understand i got it i really do beautiful life i really do in the dream they took me to the light yes yes a beautiful lie he's a shell of his former self this isn't the batman we know anymore and you don't have to tell me that way i picked up on that little detail this has led to a more reckless and uncaring batman that's the biggest thing people get wrong about this interview with zack snyder you know i tried to do it in that sort of um technical way uh i tried to do it like by proxy shoot the car that they're in the car blow up what is doing is describing that reasoning for doing what he's doing it's not the bullet it's the hole it left behind you're still choosing to end these people's lives i don't know why this is hard for you to understand like this isn't by proxy like he's shooting this killing screen yeah if he uses a tool it doesn't count what does he expect to happen when he shoots at a car you know what i just realized as well like this just doesn't work at all because he lands his ship there and then start shooting at them they shoot at him when he could have landed a ship somewhere else arrived in stealth gotten straight to the room where martha is and like killed the two people in there because [ __ ] it whatever he's gonna kill everybody anyway and then get her out instead he's like i'm going to perform a major assault from the ground level up like uh we got time for this let alone the [ __ ] fact that he's going to kill everybody what about dropping flash bangs like everywhere yeah i think he'd have a [ __ ] ton of those sorts of things he'd he'd load himself up like a no kill play through of deus ex oh he'd have he'd have the whole nine yards you got to watch out though with an m60 attached to martha he gets get up he's got an itchy trigger figure at a time oh my goodness killing by proxy yes which is still killing but he's describing the way batman sees it if a guy has a grenade so you're saying batman's a [ __ ] idiot yeah i feel like we just went over all this like you you said you're suggesting the batman doesn't have a choice when you enter into that conversation we can now look at all of the past fights including this one and explain to you all the different things that batman can do 20-year veteran superhero can't come up with some ideas compared to us really it should have stayed home if a mini gun is shooting at him and he takes off the car that's attached to and blows it up too bad you shouldn't have been in the way this is this is the point where i am just wow this guy holy this is this is one of those desperation defenses too bad you shouldn't have been in the way dude do you remember who said that in a certain way they just shouldn't have been a criminal then they wouldn't have died from batman do you remember who said recently in a superhero property oh i would feel bad but that [ __ ] was just in our way did you know oh yeah yeah i remember i like this logic it's really really fun it's uh starlight oh yeah i got you yeah yeah yeah yeah you've gotten the white story for a second there i was i was thinking batwoman for a second and i was searching and i was like surely she said that that sounds like something that would be perfectly in character for bat woman so i was searching dude ray uh captain marvel starlight batwoman and wanda damn we're running out of female heroes in the movie this as if it's the right thing to do if you think this is wrong or questionable for batman to do the movie presents it as if it doesn't give a [ __ ] that's the yeah that's precisely the issue we never get to [ __ ] talk to batman about this and he never goes over why he chooses to do this over the other options he has doctors now this is technically only an issue if you want to do the whole batman doesn't kill people in this universe if he just [ __ ] lights people up with a minigun then i guess that's what batman does now this iteration of him however and so you'd be like so where did the problem lie then and it's like well it's in his criticism of superman at that point right because he's doing yeah that's the thing it invents a new issue it's not that he's he's he's inconsistent in a different way in this way is more in universe which is the greater sin it feels like um you know like you have like a i don't know a system of diodes like little lights and they're all going to lead one way you switch it and then a bunch of others light up and lead to a different floor like just tell me which which one you want to go with interpretation wise and i can tell you how it ends up being [ __ ] because there's so many references that [ __ ] with each other in this movie you like you have to create that enormous network that twin perfect did to try and rationalize it but even then still falls apart they were in his way but they do want to rationalize it that's the thing they do want to convince they they want to make it make sense and why they want to make it needs to make sense because they really liked it that's why yeah because they really liked it and what's cool i need to find a reason for it to make sense my brain actually wants this to make sense what's cool about all efab is you'd be like well you guys are clearly biased for the mcu it's like nope okay you're clearly biased against the dceus like no why not really i mean you guys are probably those kind of top perspective no you guys are probably the kind of people that want uh you know batman to never kill anyone it's like oh have i got some news for you oh boy you're not dealing with that kind of we're gonna drop some zod pills on you so yeah i just it's amusing to me because we come on to the dceu discussion seed if you will completely like we got no hack ups about anything we're just like let's have a look oh they're really [ __ ] oh well it's like the investment that the two sides have doesn't even just it just makes for [ __ ] videos that's kind of interesting right because we often talk about you should talk about the things you're passionate about but in a lot of ways what you're passionate about ends up blinding you from being able to make any good arguments i know some people gonna be like would this apply to you guys like well yeah but like i'm just saying it could if it does point it out until then yeah like these videos that we cover are always from people who are like these movies are amazing master works what was the last video saying it was it was um it's a modern it was a masterpiece in like a true work of art this is art this is uh not civil war art right not amusements you're right after superman's death he says he failed him in life but won't fail him in death i failed him you played this clip so many times i promise i promise we heard him i won't fail him in death why would you explicitly say the whole clip and then play the whole clip as you said it isn't that i'm not sure just play the redundant yeah we hear this is what bruce wayne says play clip yeah or just have or do both where you say it and he's mouthing the words in the back so yeah yeah that's cool that's a good option he failed him as a hero and this would be the start of batman going back to the hero with a code of morals like he used to be now i want to talk about the comments in the beginning of the video about slander not understanding these characters so let's take the guy who doesn't understand watchmen and give him the rights to make batman and superman movies i'm sure he'll do a great job the biggest problem with these movies is that he doesn't understand these characters i'm going to argue that he does understand these characters but he wants to explore them no no my contention is he doesn't understand what are the characters that's yeah they're just the they're just the uh let's say the collateral damage shall we say um but like when when i heard him talking about how he doesn't want like batman and superman talking because they're in costumes like what an incredibly damning thing to say it's really weird to maintain that he's a big fan of and wants to maintain the characters from the source but he also says it looks dumb when they talk to each other in their suits it's like oh oh yikes whoops in a way that has before in film he wants to re-establish superman from the ground up and build him to be the superman that we're all familiar with right he originally had we need to rebuild superman for the ground up now good job again unbut [ __ ] believable honestly five movie arc plan for superman to get him to the optimistic and bright character that we all know i don't give a [ __ ] how can we just start there you know yeah it's not even yeah why can't if you want to make superman a person who doesn't care for human life okay like i'll watch your version hopefully it's internally consistent i'm assuming you're gonna make him either a villain or a like like an apathetic doctor manhattan type um but my issue isn't that he's not the character from the comics it's your movie it's balls like the characterization is all over the place i'm sorry and it's like oh no no no he's gonna be the guy you know in five movies i'm like it's not addressing me at all call me in five movies like jesus they will watch them all back to back and we can get this over with especially if they're with this quality to look at batman and see what would it take for him to lose his way and what would it take to get he didn't see what it took to lose we were told what it was like i said this has not been developed in the slightest there are luke skywalker all over again he he said all the scenes with people telling us why he's sad like oh so many years of people not doing good oh look robin died ah didn't see any of it [ __ ] help there is more that we know of peter b parker's uh background that they show us and into the spider verse than this movie gives us yeah and we see in like a minute we learn heaps about him it's really expeditious but it's all it's all inconsistent with what the character you know it's crazy how emotionally resonant the the last scene that we see of him is in that movie where he gets to be with mary jane again like how much i give a [ __ ] about back with him again yeah like they're gonna try he is like by god he is going to try to mend his relationship and that's all that i cared about seeing like and such a missed opportunity like if he was telling me this is his plan i was like wait why don't you want to make the batman movies why wouldn't zack people want to see this get him back half that's why we get a superman who doesn't make all the right choices stop categorizing this as not making the right choice not the right choice to fly zod into a petrol station that blows off i agree it's not the right choice it's an incident of damage there's so many themes with these [ __ ] people like defending bvs and man of steel he's still learning and growing and that's how we get a gritty batman who strayed far from his path but because of superman he learns just how lost he became [ __ ] off marcus actually in the perfect rebuttal to most of his arguments because a lot of it comes down to these characters being not comic accurate or mishandled or misrepresented now you might be saying oh murky you said it's okay for movies too well marcus is a hypocrite that's like his whole thing yeah he uses whatever argument is relevant this is the thing as much as he can be right in certain circumstances that you can't understand him as a critic overall you'll never know if he liked a thing or not what a system is it's just non-existent meanwhile with us if you think you've found let's say like 100 problems in a property and we all praise it i could understand why you'd be confused with with marcus you got nothing it's like no today he likes this today he might not see an iron man it's okay when the mandarin is [ __ ] and nothing like his comic counterpart because he enjoyed it yeah whereas us you understand what our criteria is and you know how to change your mind on a movie change stomachs but sometimes you get upset when they make a change and i didn't think i'd have to explain this outright but i don't think some people get it i've always said that changes are good if they work in the context of that story so you could let batman kill people yeah so you're a hypocrite what do you know what do we just say i don't think he realizes how much of a window he opens by saying if you make it work in that context like oh so i can make anything work right because can't being able to change the context gives me a hell of a lot of things to change i always i like how the mandarin is changed in iron man 3 because i think for that story it makes perfect but then i also said that i don't like the movie version of civil war because the comic book version to me has a lot more emotional significance why would you show this and say that like i like i said i've already briefly understood exactly what the comic counterpart is for civil war and from what i understand the movie a lot of people who like the comic think the movie was a better choice storyline wise so it's it's interesting and and it sounds like the it's not like an uh an ended conversation there because he's saying he found it more emotionally resident right the uh the comic version so is that the qualifier for whether or not you can change something from the source is whether or not you like it more you like the comic version and you don't want the comic version changed if you didn't like the comic it's okay to change it if you did like the comic it's not okay to change starting to realize like every time we drill down on any creator ever at the core of every single argument is well if i like it more yeah at that point what was the point of any of this like why do you why do you dress up all of your arguments in clothes that aren't what they actually are underneath why do you pretend to care about mechanics and acting and themes and messages it's just what you like and then they will be they would flip it around on you they'd be like of course it is that's what it is for everybody oh hi i'm me let's have a chat it's a story line that was built up over a much longer period of time and i think that they should have done that with the movie version my general idea is that i'm open to change in a comic book movie if the change works yeah but that's a qualifier that's really flipping using guns work apparently not surely if anything works it's it's a meaningless qualifier if it works then there's no problem so like yeah of course if something works you're happy that that's how he's escaping criticism because if he says if it works i'm okay with it did mandarin work isn't it called begging the question when you do that i'm okay with it if it works like well but then it it works so yes of course you would be that's you've just qualified it yourself without letting us know what it is yeah yeah i'm not one of those people who's immediately going to write off a comic book movie because it's not accurate you literally just said batman could never brutal you said it was worse than the comic why'd you show civil war footage well he reckons it wasn't the good decision to go a different route than the comic because why did he show this footage for i won't write something off you wrote that off i think uh what he thinks of when he says write it off meaning he wouldn't even give it a chance he thinks he gave civil war a chance oh you didn't but the war had its chance oh yeah civil war didn't have its chance that's right movie is from the comic books but i think it is different in a way that works immediately gonna write off a comic book movie because it's not accurate the aquaman movie is very different from the comic books but i think it is different in a way that works that's what the [ __ ] does that mean that's amazing the thing about aquaman works okay listen we watched awkward that's the most recent yeah movies that we recorded that is bottom two in the dceu for us i think right we have to lay this out quick right so we have two movies that are unlike the comics aquaman and civil war and he says civil war doesn't work but aquaman does imagine aquaman was one of the most absurd movies i've ever seen in my life i can't like like it's it's it's it's ludicrous the the film is just no it's a movie it's not a film [ __ ] calling that a film that flick is ludicrous it's entertainingly bad it is but it is like it it's entertaining because you're constantly going what the [ __ ] and laughing yes what a film this what an adventure on every level because it doesn't improve superman with any of these changes all right so aquaman improves aquaman george like what what are you saying what is it damning he said it has to improve superman so it's fine and improve how do you tell which one's better not just that but if he felt that a comic shouldn't be altered because of how perfect it is then no adaptation could ever improve on it like so why like i just oh it's so stressful to figure out what the [ __ ] he even thinks about anything he's like what do you mean when you say all of this i don't even know how this guy's gonna respond but uh let's hope he doesn't bring out some cringy arguments too i don't know i think i think we're at our limit for the day you know we've gone through a long we're here yeah we're here i actually agree with him here but of course it's all subject wait did you just say i agree he agrees with him well i mean i i don't even know what to say to this why every level because it doesn't improve superman with like okay so he's just presented a bunch of different references of him contradicting himself and he's got like this really easy way of countering him like it's right there text if you you were almost there you can do it you can do it but maybe maybe he maybe it was just the start of the response i don't know let's let's see i guess any of changes the changes make him worse i actually agree with him here but of course it's all subjective and comes down to your own personal preference okay so you both agree now discuss it both of you agree points yeah if you both agree even if you're both wrong you both agree on the point so now like could you discuss why that's the case i was gonna say like don't you don't you are you interested by this like both of you have the same metric and you've come out with opposing answers don't you think that's interesting don't you want to try and figure it out the superman is still on bvs because it works for the story they're telling clearly he doesn't and someone can look at the mandarin iron man 3 and say i don't like it because they changed the character so much to the point where he could be switched out for any other terror that's not why i think it's [ __ ] but we'll get to that some other day i guess i'm on three coverage who knows first and it wouldn't make a difference you could call him osama and the story would remain the same so that character was changed for the worst and doesn't help the story at all and that's basically how marcus feels about these two movies he believes that the changes were for the worst well i believe that they were for the better and it helps the story that they were telling what was the point of the whole [ __ ] video if you were just going to say well it's really down to what you like yeah you think that this makes it worse i think it makes it better you could just say that tomato tomato whatever the [ __ ] didn't cover everything i wanted to talk about i didn't go over every little thing he mentioned and you probably noticed a lot of these critiques have been said over and over again and not really anything new it's really a lot of the same regurgitation terrible defenses he says this is a lot of regurgitated [ __ ] like i challenge you text to go through all of our coverage and be like you know what just the same regurgitated [ __ ] anything new it's really a lot of the same regurgitated [ __ ] that people have said since these films released and they've been addressed time and time again [Music] i just oh you know what i'm gonna say it i love that we had that debate with twin perfect because it's just this permanent reference like these smug man of steel fads yeah well you guys are all stupid and wrong and you've been proven wrong again and again it's like the old yeah of those videos that's why i'm not even gonna try and do it even though you're right here in a conversation that are disagreeing me with me asking me specific questions because my work speaks for itself however her death of the author the author of those defense videos had trouble admitting that they were shittily written films because he refused to answer it he did not answer it it reminded me of when we talked to the janitor about last of us too it's like okay we've got this reference of okay we've got someone that thinks that last of us two is good and we've got people that think that last of us two is not good and they come together and they they discuss and it's very clear from like i was receiving texts from my brother who never played the last of us part two he said it was obvious which side knew what the [ __ ] they were talking about well yeah i mean it's all about references it all comes down to references you get them right you get a mind collector it's it's like the groundwork [ __ ] man and like watching a film liking it and then going uh this is great and then going all the criticism is the wrong bye no one's gonna find that compelling yeah you're if anything it's gonna make people suspicious like why aren't you bringing up some because we're at seven hours and eighteen minutes and it's just like another [ __ ] long long stream going through loads of arguments that either attack or defend and going through it takes ages all right because there's a lot wrong with these movies guys there's a lot wrong but i felt like making this video since a lot of his criticisms seem to be from misunderstandings that he has about these movies i don't know if it's because he didn't pay me some of them were i'll agree with that yeah some of them marcus isn't a bright boy but i mean he even gets some things correct even he could see why these movies are bad attention or simply because he didn't care because he doesn't like these movies so i would like to recommend you a few videos that you could watch to get a better grasp on it nearly all your criticisms from man of steel and bbs have been addressed and explained in this collection of videos by twin perfect from the character's portrayals the first at last in that playlist they're both [ __ ] awful epic and we spoke to the author during the covering of the second one and he put up a abysmal display like how else could i put it well it was it was very eye-opening for a lot of people texan everyone that watches techs i recommend you check out efap 124 and 127. we'll go over in detail why you've been lied to maybe not that extreme but he straight up said he does it for clickbait so i don't know what else to tell you the destruction all of it if you want to dive deeper on that there's these couple videos that dive deep into the symbolism as well as another really good analysis but in the end it all comes down to your own preference and i can't make you like these versions of the characters or the movies i feel like this video was just ramblings on why you don't like it without actually trying to understand it what the [ __ ] was your video yeah your video was rambles as to that we just didn't get it and then you didn't even really just did a bad job zach wouldn't be proud either intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting scenes and motives throughout these two movies but anyway guys that's gonna do for the video i hope you enjoyed if you did go and drop a like on it i'm gonna go play some cyberpunk oh wait never mind i can't even watch my face without this damn game crashing man we did it bbs is dead [ __ ] you oh i didn't want to talk about this movie again bbs had a chance i am so glad to talk about aquaman yeah we're moving right now suicide squad first no i'm excited to talk about those those are great i'd love to talk about the outside squad and uh oh man yeah all right i'm not even sure what's what's happening in terms of that arc but i will say uh to remind everybody if you didn't catch the beginning there is a straw poll it will be in the description it is specifically about what aquaman video we're going to cover whenever that comes around because that's going to be in this arc too i'm so excited and the way it'll work is right like whatever the top results are we'll go from the top down and we'll stop whenever we can't do it anymore yeah right but uh that is it okay wonder woman wonder woman 84 man of steel and bvs are all done near them again yeah they're right they're dead awful films awful defenses of them uh who knows what's gonna happen next because yeah next up is suicide squad and i don't think anybody defends that film [ __ ] [ __ ] the times that's that's that so uh i don't know if you guys want to say goodbye are we this will be a seven and a half hour premiere on bula have fun with that everybody in chat all right there's your content um are you happy you're making us a dance for you yeah this is what you want i don't know what else to end it that was epic i i don't know i mean what what what can we say that has not yet been said um i hope you enjoyed that stream we did on one division because that would have happened by now oh yeah that was that was yeah wasn't that so bad that was true or maybe our maybe our minds have changed one division is actually a seven out of ten whoa imagine raising that high wow who would be [ __ ] dumb enough and unable to analyze media so badly that they would give it a seven out of ten wow that's that's two points above average impressive wow that is very impressive so um i think that about does that thank you all so much for watching and we will see you on whatever happens next in the efap world of tis mcfuckery yeah bye bye

Channel: MooLer

Views: 219,759

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Id: Q2uoXpjdTj4

Length: 443min 34sec (26614 seconds)

Published: Sat Mar 20 2021