EB Tucker: Gold is at a New High, Now it's Time to Let it Run

i'm charlotte macleod with the investing news network and here today with me is eb tucker director at metalla royalty and streaming and author of the book why gold why now thanks so much for being here today eb thanks for having me all right and of course we had to have you today it's a historic day or i guess rather yesterday was you've you've had yet another of your calls for the gold price come true so just some background for people who may not have been following along last year you told us that we would have 1500 gold which we did after that you said that this year gold would take out its all-time high which just happened yesterday we've spoken about this before but i think i need to ask again as you made these calls what went into your thought process how are you feeling now that we've reached this this level well now the the advice which i mean everybody treats this like guessing the weight of an animal at the state fair you know where you how much does it weigh a thousand pounds i don't know and you win a prize or something if you guess it's not really like that i mean the reason why we we found these markers was that you know 1500 kind of became this this base to go from and then 1900 is now an area where as professionals we we let it run i mean this this thing is going to run so i mean that you're going to run the people don't own gold i mean they just don't own gold and if you don't believe it you know take a a survey no i mean don't don't do this at the pdac conference but i mean in a regular setting to say is anybody here own any gold i mean it may be one person i mean most people don't have any so and so what does that tell you i mean who's going to be the seller i mean who's who's going to who's going to sell to make the price go down i mean i i don't i don't know central banks are buying um you know smart people are buying rich people are buying i mean i'm having people call me that that you know two years ago thought i was some sort of caveman you know what do we do now a lot of it's because they read this book i mean charlotte this book has all the whole pla the whole road map is in here and i have people calling me up what do we do now it's in the book it's all happening it's all happening it's dominoes and look we're in the first inning of this thing this is this is the first you haven't missed get your seat because you haven't missed any of the game it's just starting so there's a lot more to come but right now what you do with your gold is you let it run silver is much more exciting silver i mean as you see what's happening it's you know 24 60 is the high today in the spot market silver i mean it'll go up it'll go up close to 30 before there's any trouble and then you'll have some sort of pause and i don't know we'll have to see what it looks like there but i mean nobody's in that in that trade you know we took we took derivative exposure there in april nobody's in that that that's very exciting i mean silver in the last full market silver went up a thousand percent and 10 times and gold went up something like 330 something roughly like that i mean tripled the performance silver's got a long way to go in the book one of the things i covered in the book that people liked a lot was when to sell i mean that's that's the you forget about like what's the we'll tell you the target it'll hit it but i mean when to sell that's the bigger question i mean even even the best traders struggle with when to sell one thing i recommend people not do is to take profits because they think something's expensive and you'll never get back in i see this all the time with metallica you know we started metallic dollar 20 canadian it's it's 8.99 right now you can see it up behind me i mean i it's i think it's safe to say no i think we can fairly call that nine uh you know the company is on a great track i mean i mean it's it's it's all about having being able to get these royalty deals done which takes an eternity we've got 52 assets or something it's it's going to keep you started at zero and this was three and a half years ago but but here's my point i watch people all the time oh it's too expensive i'll sell it and take them they never get back in so you get you get your position let it run just let the thing go you know you'll you'll know when it's time we'll we'll talk about it you know the indicators i talk about in the book will start showing up and i don't think that's going to happen for a while now okay yeah and that touches on something else i wanted to talk about which is i'm seeing on twitter elsewhere people who have been in the gold market for a while are feeling nervous right now like they're not happy that the gold price is going higher they've been burned before and they're worried about what's going to come next so what would your message be to those type of people stop thinking about it you got to remember something in the market what the hardest thing for people to get over is they have like a uh an abused dog at the pound you know i mean someone's going to adopt you and it's going to be great it's going to be a new life i mean markets are all about psychology and i i have the same you're spot on with this i have emails right behind me with people that bought gold at 15 1600 eight or nine or ten years ago and they wanna sell it no problem i mean this is gonna happen people are gonna wanna do it but but we're we'll buy it i mean i mean that's that's the thing because we try to have a fresh set of eyes i mean if you opened up the gold world for the first time today your conclusion would be this this thing is going a lot higher i mean so you wouldn't you wouldn't worry about oh well i paid you know this much in 2011 and i sure am glad to get out you know with my cost back that that that that's that's that's totally static you're looking at a situation based on your personal experience so anytime in in the markets you're going to get in a lot of trouble if you're looking at your personal experience i mean imagine if you said i'm not going to buy amazon because they they delivered the wrong package one time you know in like 2003 and i'm not going to tolerate that type of customer service well i mean that wasn't that wasn't the most objective way to look at that okay so so try to have a fresh set of eyes with gold ask yourself would i want to buy this today you know whatever happened in the past is the past i mean i understand this i mean the silver has been a really difficult medal so so but when i look at it holistically it always takes two years to kick into gear we did this in 2003 for that area you know did this 2009-10 you know it's always like this and then it massively outruns gold so if you're just saying well i bought this all that silver at you know 26.50 or something forget about that i mean what's going to happen now silver's going to go to 100. it's not going to go to 100 this month but i mean silver's going to move substantially before it runs into any trouble and then it's going to cool off and then it's going to run again and people are going to say well surely it can't go any more wrong it could go much more mirrored to fifty dollars in 1979 80. it went to 50 in april 2011. this is gonna go much higher than fifty dollars this time it's gonna catch everyone by surprise so what do you do about that you figure out your trade you get it you get into the trade you're comfortable with and you just let it run let it let it do what it's supposed to do now you'll know when to sell we we have the indicators we use in the book you'll know it'll start looking wobbly and you'll say this is a good time to to take this off the table but looking at saying i paid this years back that's a terrible way to do it okay now i also want to talk about some of the factors that are behind these moves in gold and silver that we're seeing just briefly to recap for for people you know it's in the book and we should definitely read the book but you've talked extensively in the past about money printing those kind of things right now what is what is the main thing driving gold and silver look i i know this is going to be hard for people to understand and a lot of people that are my peers in the in the money business take a huge amount of disagreement you know with me on this but what's happening is there's too much money so everybody thinks that means there's going to be inflation no it's not it's going to be deflation which which let me explain that it means the all these assets you go to vancouver and you look at these million-dollar studio apartment in the middle of nowhere i mean all this stuff's bought on credits there's too much of all this stuff there's too much there's too many things that were built with cheap money and what that means is that it compresses down the rates of return so you end up with this asset that you bought with free money you know one percent money two percent money whenever you see the u.s ten year treasury point six percent i mean it's really crazy too much money because they kept having to put money into the system more and more and more money to bring it back to life so that the debt could continue to be solvent you know like people could pay the bills for their debt so the long-term effect of this is you're just awash in money there's money everywhere it's too much money well what happens is that the things that you own start to go down in value a little bit and the things that you need start to become more expensive you know because you actually have to buy the equipment to make the thing you know it's everything is changing we're at this this point right now where things are changing so so it's not so simple as they ran a printing press with too much money it's they created so much credit and look what they're doing now creating much more credit so they're making money even cheaper now eventually as we say in the book the cost of the money is going to be negative i know it's hard to understand but but there is a reason why this is going to happen and this is this is my prediction by the way and it's because central banks need you to spend money you have to you have to spend money that's why all these programs you know to counteract the coven shutdown it's all about get people spending money so that the system doesn't seize up and lock up okay so so you have a hundred grand savings or something and this the bank starts charging you to keep the money there you're gonna spend the money or you're gonna put it into the market speculate or you're going to try to speculate and real you're going to do something with that money you're going to have an adverse reaction to being charged for it i mean we go through all this this is what's going to happen is like dominoes you've only seen one or two of the dominance there's so many more to come so we walk through what that looks like you know it's the central banks become increasingly desperate to be able to get the system to stay afloat and so and so you'll see them do more and more dramatic things that's the whole the whole beauty of gold is that it's the only asset that you can buy that i know of at least that that's outside of that system you know and eventually you'll sell the gold you won't hold the gold for a thousand years i mean you'll you'll there'll be a time where there'll be a reset you know and you'll want to to you'll want to acquire assets probably at very good prices okay so you put a lot of effort into helping people understand these difficult concepts and you published your book recently just a couple months ago i think are you finding that it's connecting with people are you are you having people take your advice an unbelievable amount of linkedin messages from people saying thank you from all over the world it's actually very nice i mean because the book was written for for people to average people to understand complicated concepts so it wasn't meant for people in a colorado school of mines or something to understand i mean this is meant for you to be able to say hey you're you have money you're working you're working to get money to have a better life you know this whole concept is in trouble and you need to you need to think about it for a minute and you shouldn't be bored you know it's all stories of things that i've seen and done and dinners and being left in the middle of mexico and all kinds of bizarre things along a two-decade journey you know it's two decades of all this stuff so i mean i think people do it opens their eyes a little bit they understand that you can do something about it it's not too hard it's very easy i mean i also told the story of metalla i mean it's really interesting how it all came together i mean i met brett heath by accident over a decade ago you know at the hard asset conference in new york which doesn't even exist anymore you know we were sitting on the front row didn't know each other as ask me some question we'd talk afterwards and that's over a decade ago you know we've been in business together doing various things but but uh what happened was we we managed money in the gold and silver stock world and we knew these stocks inside and out and um we found that royalties were far and away the best investment and we figured out that there were hundreds if not thousands of these royalties out there on all kinds of different assets all over the world and people people and companies own them and we came up with a way to go around and to buy those existing royalties we're not financing mines now why am i telling you this is very important because when you start getting these royalties you have a claim on lots of ounces in the ground they're not going to come out of the ground for two three four five years and you bought these royalties when the gold price was 12 13 1400 and now it's 1900 so every single ounce in the ground is 500 more and cost your royalty doesn't go up so what happens is you get this massive lever you know in your you know you're you're moving you're moving a tremendous amount of wealth you know and people need to see that and so in the book i'm like this is why we started the company it's three and a half years ago stocks started at a dollar twenty and it's almost nine bucks and the point is not like some the next hop speculative stock it's not like that i mean i tell the story of franco nevada you know they bought a two million dollar royalty in nevada in the 80s and it's gonna pay out over a billion dollars in cash and that's over 30 years i mean this isn't this isn't the hot potato stock where you get in and get out in a week or something this is a business it's the best business in the world i don't know of any other business that's more valuable than the royalty business i mean franco nevada has over a billion dollars in market cap per employee i mean that's that's that's so much more than the tech companies in the us and i mean you wouldn't believe it you know and nobody really understands this business as investors that's what you want to see there's no one understand they will understand it once they understand it it's too late you know you got the guys in new york they don't even know what this is all about yet so when you unleash all those people you know you a lot of the opportunities are gone it's not too late for that i mean that that's the thing with the book is that you got to pay attention now why go why now it's not why gold why in a few years it's now now's the time and it's not too late right so definitely you've got all these strategies that people can follow lots of advice for them i need to ask if you have going forward a new gold price prediction with the timeline attached to us you've given us these two accurate calls in i guess last year and this year so we have to ask what what could be next i i don't mind you asking unfortunately we we're letting it run i mean we we think that it can run into the 2000s and we'll wait to see when it runs into trouble so we're long and we're watching i mean it's going to move it's moving it's going to move right into the 2000s it's going to get mainstream press coverage you know we talked about this before people don't know what they're doing so they don't know what to buy that's all really they're throwing money all over the place trying to figure out how to buy it that's very good i mean think about it it's a really big opportunity there's only about 12 trillion dollars of the gold on the whole planet it's not much gold i mean honestly it's it's a really small amount and for that to be able to go up you know 30 percent from here is kind of a no-brainer i mean this is say it's turns into 16 um trillion worth of gold it's nothing i mean i think they there might be 300 trillion worth of debt at the end of the year i don't know the the numbers we quoted in the book were 255 trillion as of the end of last year and you know what's been happening this year i mean it's really wild the debt growth so i mean you you start thinking about 16 trillion worth of gold 300 trillion worth of debt i mean that's that's a dollar worth of gold for every 20 of the debt and the debt can't survive without more debt i mean this is this is a really unique situation it's once in a lifetime i mean honestly this isn't going to happen again believe me this is this is just once in a lifetime and you this is this is the chance people have to see what's coming i don't think many people will take it they'll sit there and say boy i really should have done something about that and really i knew there was a problem when all this was going on i really should have done something but i guess maybe next time i don't think there'll be a next time okay so i i want to take a moment to take you back to silver which you've been talking a little bit about and we haven't really had a chance to go in the past very in-depth in silver so i wonder if you could talk a little bit more about the the silver story and what the potential is there and what the move upward for silver could look like because it it has kind of a bad rep well maybe not bad but a less good reputation compared to gold just because of the volatility i think maybe that makes people a little apprehensive for good reason i mean it's not been a very good trade i mean you went from low single digits last decade to 50. you know let's call it four or five five dollars pretty much to 50 i think that's fair you could have bought it a little cheaper maybe but um pretty violently i mean you went you know when it went it went in a hurry silver is speculative um it's got a history of doing this i mean it did this in the in the 79 80 and it went up dramatically in the last the very end of that market you know it went crazy um and then it crashed you know it went down to like two dollars or something it was really a disaster so i think that's i think it's fair to think that silver is is not to be trusted but we don't we don't care about what happened 40 years ago we care about now and in march you know the price went down under 12. i was in the futures market prior you know it was it was untreatable what happened so i went down to 12 and at the same time the coin dealers that i know told me that they couldn't get any coins and if they could get any they needed to charge nine or ten dollars a coin over the spot price so that means the price was quoted 12 and the and this price for an actual coin was like 21 22 at least that's not right something's crazy about that now the next thing i know is that from metalla you know we know what everybody's up to with mining and we didn't we didn't know of but a handful of mines that could even function at 12 silver i mean it would you may be a giant base metal mine or something i mean i guess but but unsustainable unsustainable so you combine bad reputation you know bad seven or eight years of straight down you know no no break even in between no company can mine it well this is all stuff that you look for when you're about to see a rocket ship take off because this is this is a washout everybody's quit on it that can quit on it okay so we so that's important and as a trader you know as a we're we're we're traders we're in the money game i mean that's that's the deal you know we're not getting hung up on worrying about that you paid 30 dollars for bar silver 10 years ago that's irrelevant you know this thing is going to a hundred and so what's going to happen from here is that the price is going to go up to the high 20s without much trouble and i know you say well that doesn't do us any good because it's already 24.50 or something and that's almost a 20 that's almost a 20 move i mean i don't know if you buy treasuries for us treasury for 60 basis points you know it'll take you 30 years or something to make that much money all right so silver's going to move and it's going to do that by the end of the year now i don't know what happens from there i mean it could run into some trouble i mean it's high it's heavily leveraged so you have to be careful i mean the you running you get to a certain point and and you know there's there's hedge funds and traders commodities traders that that take heavy heavy leverage on silver so it's possible you could take a break there but what i what i what we're looking at and what i would say to people watching is look at that chart and see if from here to the high 20s you know that that's coming maybe maybe it's a month or two but i mean it's this year okay so i mean we're looking for that this year i mean we'll reassess when it gets there and then how do you trade it well there's not a lot of silver mining companies and there's not very many of them i mean there's a i don't want to name names because there's only a few and if i miss one i won't get invited to to dinner next time uh by one of the executives but i mean it it it's not very many um what i think is an option is is to look at you know the the you gotta look at the physical product in the market slv which is not that great of a metric but i mean you can buy options on that you know you can buy two year options on that um you know so i mean that's a that's that's something you can look at um you know and if you look at sil the the etf or silga i mean metallo just got added to silj it's a decent etf it's very small you can look at this companies of silver exposure in that and you can pick through them and you can decide what you want to do i mean that's what we did when we manage the fund we we break open the etf and pick out the winners by studying the companies i mean you can look at the top 20 holdings and pick through and decide which companies you know suit you but but try not to think about what's happened in the past because the markets don't work that way they don't work that way it's not that's not how things go you know you don't um you know you don't you don't say well if it happened for 10 years then it can happen for another 10 years it's not that way there's there's indicators you got to look for indicators and the indicators when all the companies can't make money and the dealers got to charge you double for the coin i mean everybody's hates silver and that's pretty good that's like that's what you want to see that means there's nobody left to sell except for the big the big boys you know that have that are going to be trading that's what you got to watch out for but i don't think that comes in for another four or five dollars okay we're coming to the end here but one thing you seem to keep coming back to is uh encouraging people to be in the now a little bit more and not pay attention to the bad things that happened to the past or in the past or at least not let them hinder what you're doing right now and i don't know if we've talked about the um millennial investors coming into the market the robin hood traders that seem to be being talked about in not just in the mining space but in the overall investing space right now do you think they almost have an advantage right now from being new compared to people who've been here for a while and they've watched so many things happen they have an advantage today um i think i think they're in for a real education i mean think about most of the people when they when they talk we're stereotyping okay so we're saying that you're robin hood trader we're stereotyping you as a millennial but it might not be true i mean you could be 60 and you just downloaded robin hood for the first time so we're not trying to offend anyone with our stereotyping but but there's a lot of people with limited experience i mean i have i have a friend uh this is a cpa and uh he was telling me that he's trying to make 20 a week and i said 20 a week i mean are you kidding me that's like that's that's that's what the mob makes breaking people's legs you know i mean that that's this is unheard of okay he said yeah but i mean i don't have time to to make 20 a year so i mean you can listen to these comments you know and you record them in your mind and you think okay that's that's a sign right because remember at the end of the depression everyone was was disgusted with stocks they didn't want to own them ever again forget about it they would tell you listen you're gonna lose all your money if you buy that stock and that wasn't true you know the stocks had pe multiple of five or six and dividend yield of five or six and you could have just bought them with all your money and never done anything for 70 years and you would be fabulously wealthy some people did that not very many okay so so we have to look at this cohort and say they were raised with push a button and get a package and push a button and get a movie and push a button and get all the stuff now they push a button and get 20 a week so um it's unsustainable i mean it's you have to be very careful because what you want to buy if you want to make money you talk about being the now okay this is very important because whatever happened in the past is finished it's over i mean of course you want to think about what you did and learn from your mistakes this is important but then let it go forget about it it's like going down a river whatever happens before is over now what is coming ahead is not quite here yet but it's coming so the trick in the markets is to do something for what's coming ahead i mean when when we bought uh silver you know we put silver trade on in april we felt a little crazy i mean there was it wasn't really doing much you know so we certainly lose money you know every week we were losing money on the trade so derivatives trades they were losing money losing money even very smart people that i know very smart people that they were saying well it's not it's too early i was seeking men i hope i hope we're okay here because i mean then all of a sudden boom so we knew it was coming we didn't know if it was six months or or six weeks we knew it wasn't six years so so i would encourage people that are new to to sit back and say what is ahead and then how do i position myself for what's ahead so i mean buying a crazy company that might never have a virus cure or something that this is a tiny 10 million market cap company i don't know that's a great idea i mean if you get a quick move in that you know that's probably good luck but when you look at what's coming you know ahead and you see what's going to happen what's likely to happen a lot of things that are coming ahead are very obvious so you want to buy things that benefit from what's coming and you want to be patient because believe me 20 a year if you can keep that up is enough money to that you can't spend it you cannot spend if you make 20 a year for a sustained period of time you you will double your money so many times that you will you will not be able to get rid of all the money in your lifetime believe me so people need to realize that that 20 a week is is like a fantasy i mean you can't it's not even people that are exceptionally good at this in this business they wouldn't even think of even being they're scared off by even the prospect of it okay all right any final thoughts you would leave us with um today it's not too late in the gold trade believe me it's it's it's still early i mean get a copy of the book you know you can get it kendall all over the world buy gold by now you can get it paper paperback softcover all over the world you get audible you can listen to an audible right now and it's me reading the book and and look i mean take it to heart it's it's this is your chance i mean you can see what's coming and you need to know what to do about it and there's your there's you look back and you say yeah i mean i called that right i mean the average person could do this you know you have money you're wealthy even if you have a little bit of savings you're wealthy most people have no savings so it's time to pay attention to what's going to happen to that okay well thank you so much thanks for taking the time to talk today it was always or it's always great to hear what you have to say about gold and precious metals thanks charlotte thanks and once again i'm charlotte macleod with the investing news network and this is evie tucker with metallic royalty and streaming and author of the book white gold why now you

Channel: Investing News

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Keywords: eb tucker, metalla royalty & streaming, why gold? why now?, gold, gold price, gold outlook, gold forecast, silver, silver price, silver outlook, silver forecast, central banks, inflation, deflation, investing

Id: Zf-9B86TKlY

Length: 29min 31sec (1771 seconds)

Published: Mon Jul 27 2020