DUNE: The Hidden Islamic Meanings

[Music] there's a crusade coming do you often dream things that happen just as you dream them yes okay so there's a new movie June which is a big new movie that's come out and I watched it and I found it kind of hilarious I was pretty much laughing at various inappropriate points in the movie and my friend was watching me like dude what are you laughing at and I tried to explain it in the movie um which didn't go well with the with the people behind us but basically what I found hilarious was that um throughout it they started randomly using Islamic and Arabic terminology and I was not prepared for that at all uh and it they just kept on dropping in like and and all these kinds of things and I was what's going on um so I went and looked into it afterwards and it turns out actually that these this is these Islamic themes were huge in June and what I thought would be interesting would be for us to explore what were um uh Frank Herbert his name yeah Frank Herbert was the author yeah what were his thoughts on Islam and why did he weave it into uh June so much yeah and also what does the movie get right and wrong so we're going to go through Frank Herbert's thought and then we're going to go through some things that are right and wrong about the movie in terms of its Islamic content and I think that's actually very useful to to stick around and to actually watch because it'll illuminate a lot of things in the geopolitical world and in The Wider religious context that we have today uh from terrorism to reformist movements Etc yeah so um let's go to Frank Herbert's actually words yeah let's see what he says Islam of course Islam is a very strong uh uh element of the um uh of the whole trilogy mhm we tend in this uh culture not to study Islam and not to recognize how much it has com contributed to our culture mhm uh because uh of the religious Wars out of which our present Consciousness has come the awareness but we owe Islam um enormous debts of gratitude so I mean what do you think about that I mean is is he right do you feel in in saying that does does our civilization our culture have an enormous debt to Islam yeah I think I think it's among educated people I think they now increasingly recognize that this was like the 60s this is like the 60s so I think in those times in particular there was much less awareness of that um and it's nice to play that because it shows that we're not just making this up and you know saying oh well you know in a way islamically appropriating this in a way and saying oh yeah this is all about Islam actually no this is Frank Herbert himself uh this was his perspective and he was the author of the books I mean that interview is like kind of replay of an interview he did in the middle of the 20th century you know 50 60 years ago so yeah it's not um I think at that time there was much less awareness of the role that Islam had played in developing civil Iz ation he seems like a person who is very keenly aware of that I don't know how it came to his attention and what motivated him to even write a massive Sci-Fi series about it so that's a very interesting perspective especially in a society today where I think a lot of people think that Islam is some people seem to think Islam is like you know on the way out especially amongst the new atheist they think oh this is you know the time which Islam will have its back broken I mean despite the fact that Islam and Muslims are the conversion rate is the highest in the West than any other religion but it's interesting that this guy presents a completely different View and that people are still making movies about this yeah um you know and it's quite a positive it's a bit like the Black Panther move it's a bit like it's a a little bit like the Black Panther moment for black people in a sense Dune for Muslims because this is a Winger because like the Black Panther thing was like yeah so we're going to see like an African nation which is truly like very highly technologically advanced Etc and it was completely new and fresh thing and for Muslims here we're seeing in a movie effectively you know a surrogate for Muslims that's what they depict and what that's what they represent yeah okay so um let's discuss the things that it got right and things got wrong now one of the things that they spoke about which I which I was just watching it like what is going on where they said um uh he's he is the Mahi he is the m he is the Mahi yeah they said the Mahi right and I was like what what is going on why are they talking about the Mahi and then they were talking about you know which means like the uh the the tongue of the unknown or the word of the unnown kind of thing so uh and throughout it they've got they're saying all these prophecies and the and the native people who are like these beduins are basically um like sizing him up yeah and if you remember they're sizing him up literally and they're recognizing oh he's fulfilling the prophecies and the things pretty na prophecies I'm not say he shall come with his mother okay well great so a guy stepped off a plane with his mom fulfills the prophecy or he shall dress like you so he's going to dress like you when he's coming to country that's fascinating I mean he did his best I mean vaguely plausible is um is but yeah so what is this concept of the Mahi is it real and does it figure in Muslims thinking today yeah it's a massive massive feature of Islamic theology relating to what known in Islam as the latter days yeah so the latter days signify a period of of degeneration of Muslims morally spiritually civilization economically politically in every sphere the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was well known the so these are the Prophecies of the Quran and of the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him um to give you a small taste or a small example of this the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said that this is in the Book of Knowledge says there will he said there will come a time upon the people when nothing will remain of Islam except its name and nothing will remain of the Quran except its inscription mosques will be splendidly furnished but destitute of guidance their religious Scholars the divines will be the worst creatures Under The Canopy of Heaven Strife will issue from them and return to them then in thi very famous collection of the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad he stated as recorded as saying in the end of time there will come a people young in years foolish in Minds reciting the Quran which will not go beyond their throats in other words they'll just be able to recite it well it'll be a formulaic thing but they won't understand the spirit or the meanings teachings uttering sayings from the best of creatures okay going through the religion as an arrow goes through the Target in other words they barely spend any time understanding comprehending and living in the religion they go in and they come out the other end yeah which is what we see today let's be honest right you know you see a p perfect picture of the world of the of the Muslim World unfortunately um so many Muslim majority Nations uh have so much corruption they're so engross to materialism and they are the centers of disorder and disunity rather than of peace and Order which is what Islamic civilization is supposed to be yeah busy Waring amongst themselves more than anything else actually yeah yeah absolutely and the the concept of the so where does that tie in so the point is is that Islam claims to be a living religion claims to be a religion which God himself takes care of and that though we have a scripture which is perfect in the sense that it's unchanged and it fulfills all the needs for guidance for Humanity um God doesn't just send down books he sends down Messengers who are living examples of those teachings and so models examples yeah examples models exactly and so the prophet Muhammad basically explained that even though the Quran will be there he says the Quran you know will nothing will remain of the Quran except its inscription which shows that it's not enough just to have a teaching you need to have a living example as to how to live out that teaching a model has how to live out that teaching yeah and so what he said is he prophesied that the Mahi will come and the Mahi simply means which is features in Dune doesn't it the name MDI um it feat uh it means the guided one so it means the one who is guided directly by God okay and so what it means is that a person will come who will be guided by God in the latter days and he will um be the represent reprentative of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him in that light later age and that he will in actual fact bring the Muslims back to the correct interpretation and practice of Islam and how does that tie into the idea of um you know a lot of Muslims have this idea that Jesus is coming back peace be upon Him Jesus is literally going to come back the Messiah is going to come back um and then a lot of Muslims learn especially kind of Sunni and Sh Muslims that Jesus and the the mat are going to like team up or something and then there's going to be like kind of big war I mean just just talk about the the Jesus aspect of things well I think well the the eneral conception among sunnis and Sh is that um there will be the second coming of Christ um like literally like literally like 2,000 years ago you know the Christian concept basically take the Christian concept of the second coming right be like oh he be Muslim and they just be like he's a Muslim right that is that is basic is almost exactly what the Muslims believe today majority of Muslims it's not in the Quran it's not in the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad they've got it from Christians as Christians entered into Islam right in the centuries after Islam was founded they brought with them a lot of these teachings and a lot of these beliefs so they held on to their previous beliefs because Jesus was also a revered figure they continued to believe that he himself will return in person this is despite the fact that the Quran says many times up to 30 verses that Jesus is in a fact dead right like all other messages Muhammad is only a messenger verily The Messengers before him passed away very clear statement he Jesus was messenger he was before the prophet Muhammad he's passed away right so the concept of the Messiah is that among Sunni and Shia Muslims to encapsulate really simply he will come back there will be the Mahi who will be born amongst the people who will actually be the leader of the Muslims and the Messiah will be a helper to the Mahi right and together they will wage war against the Muslims this is what Saudi Sal sorry well probably in their conception against Muslims who don't adere to their understanding of Islam either and he will effectively offer people only one of two choices according to them okay this isn't in the original texts this isn't in the Quran this goes against the teaching of the Quran goes against the teaching of the Prophet Muhammad but they believe he'll offer people either death or conversion yeah he'll say convert to Islam or I'll kill you and he will have you know I don't know what army he will have or what technology he'll have and how he'll be able to fight nuclear bombs I don't know that but this is what they believe yeah um and then he will wage a Jihad a physical Jihad of fighting of killing and that the world will be converted to Islam and then he will distribute so much riches to all of the Muslims that they will become inordinately wealthy as if Dubai isn't yeah so this is basically the kind of fantasy of uh unfortunately a lot of a at least many Muslims and in particular ones of a more extremist bent you can see it's clearly inspired a lot of that extremism yeah uh because you know for instance Isis were all about that they're basically like an apocalyptic cult yeah they believe that they were setting up the state for Jesus to return and then give them help yeah okay and um and I guess this this idea of of a Jihad so-called Jihad against the non-muslims kind of comes from this conception of what they think will happen anyway right yeah that's correct well that's what the founder of the Ahmed Muslim Community mmed M Muhammad peace be upon him he stated in his you know seminal work Jesus in India opening chapter you know I read Jesus India when I was 15 or so I remember reading it and like the entire opening chapters about Jihad I'm like I remember thinking like what's this Got to Do With Jesus yeah but then he explains there and then I've read the book many times since now I really understand it cuz you know when you're 15 you don't get everything but the introductory chapter he explains that all of the roots of modern day extremism and he was writing in 1906 I think he wrote this book you know so all of the roots of modern day extremism lie in the beliefs that Jesus will come back and he'll be a warlike you know as if to make up for his teaching of turn the other cheat this time he's going to go in the exact opposite direction and so when you expect God to send a messenger who's going to do something you can't possibly think it's going to be that bad for you to do it in fact you probably think if you get the ball start started right start start the ball rolling you know killing these God you know these disbelievers Etc then when he when Jesus comes he's going to support you that's their belief yeah so that's actually what inspires this this perspective and I think this is really important because a lot of people have this perspective that um oh if you didn't have like the US and the West funding Saudi and wahhabism you know this you you wouldn't have any kind of extremism and undoubtedly there is a significant contribution and um propagation through funding and through you know support from other nations but at the end of the day there is a root of this which is doctrinal which is um mainstream in some forms well really actually in this form um amongst you know Sunni and Shia Muslims at large but our point is that actually that has no support in the original teachings well no it's contradicted by the original teachings in fact the prophet Muhammad so two two so I mean do we want to go through that go back to what June said and and the claims that it made yeah so I mean let's let's briefly um let's before we get to that let's brief ly discuss this idea of the Messiah and the Mahi are they two separate people or are they combined yeah that's a good example so like you know in the original um statements of the Prophet Muhammad he's very explicit that they are the same person okay he's very explicit they're not two separate individuals they're the same they're different titles for the same person and in fact if you go back through the through the actual religious text he's got more than two titles he's got quite a few titles like harth is one of his titles right so um which means the Harvester or The Gatherer so so can you give me any quotes of that of of yeah so for example inl it says which means um what will be your condition in other words it says like you know how bad will be your condition if say if I say like what's what's going to be your state it's like it means it's a terrible State you'll be in so he the prophet Muhammad peace be him said what will be your state when the son of Mary appears among you now the word uses as descends but in Arabic that can simply mean appear right so for example in the Quran it talks about how cows have descended from Heaven how Iron has descended from Heaven how the Quran has descended from Heaven how the prophet Muhammad Des doesn't mean literally physical dropping from the sky it means a grace of God which has come down yeah you know because nobody sees cows and cattle descending from heaven but it says in the Quran you know even says in the qu we have sent down for you clothing yeah so this is important for Muslims because they say oh it says nul it says descent exactly but no it just that's why translated as appears because it doesn't mean send literally okay so he said what will be your state when the son of Mary Jesus appears among you and he and will be your IM from among you yeah and and your IM from among you is literally the words it's like a direct he you know he appears among you and and you're Imam from among you yeah right clearly implying it's the same person yeah well he's the subject of the statement isn't he and then there are other statements for example which are even more explicit um like in um ma thei collection where he says there is no M except Easter so there was no Mahi except Jesus now that's curious because actually the um the what you said earlier is that the Quran explicitly says that Jesus peace be upon him has died yeah right The Messengers Muhammad is only a messenger peace be upon him and the messagers before him have passed away including Jesus and there are so many other statements so Jesus has passed away but the prophet Muhammad peace be upon Him says that the the son of Mary will appear amongst the Muslims and will be the guided leader the Mahi right so he's saying that you know the son of Mary will appear and he'll be a Muslim he'll be the guided leader uh to reform the Muslims how does that work what does that mean well I you know I think the point um in particular is that um what is the why call him Jesus yeah that's my yeah why why call him Jesus why don't you say there's going to be a Matthew why don't you say there's going to be a reformer well because it tells you a lot more right right because the prophet Muhammad stated that the condition of the Muslims would be the same as the condition of Jews at the time of Jesus now what was the condition of Jews at the time of Jesus you had a people who were extremely literalistic had lost really the spirit of their law their teaching that was given by God um they were all about political um dominance they wanted to achieve political dominance of the Romans politically which is why they they had a sect literally called the zealots who were basically terrorist which means the extremists which means the extremists you know they would go around stabbing civilians stabbing Roman soldiers even killing Jewish people who disagreed with them very similar to Muslim extremists today um they eventually took power after Jesus left Judea and after his crucifixion they established the state of Israel yeah the state sorry the state of Judea rather I should say they should they established the state of Judea in after the series of Roman War Roman Jewish Wars on the first and second century so there are lots of similarities you know just like Isis set up the state of the you know the the what whatever they called it I don't know what do they call it their state you know the Islamic State the Islamic State right they set up in in this in the same kind of region the Levant yeah the these were the early zealots the early Isis of the Jews who set up the Judea the state of Judea and just like the Islamic State lasted for three years pretty much and then it was destroyed exactly the same thing happened to the Jews so the point I'm making is the prophet Muhammad PE stated um he said you will follow the ways of the Jews as one shoe is equal to another shoe you'll be identical in fact he said that every single sin that the Jews will have committed in the past you the Muslims will repeat so he said he said he said even if the Jew had committed adultery with his mother there will be a person in my umah in my among my followers who will do the same right and and that's you know that's significant because the in the Quan talks about how the prophet Moses was actually the prototype for the prophet Muhammad peace be correct you know he was a great law bearing Prophet that would have a you know a longlasting people uh that would have many Saints and even prophets among them yeah uh and therefore by saying that the condition of the Muslims would be like the conditions of the Jews it reinforces that idea that what happened amongst the Jewish people would happen amongst the Muslims and I guess your point here is that in the same way that you know if the problem is the same the solution is going to be the same yeah you needed Jesus you needed Muslim Jesus so what was the so yeah the solution was for the Jews Jesus peace be upon him uh who was apolitical yeah you know he's not political render onto Cesar that which is Caesar and that which is that which is unto God to God so he said that um you know this idea this statist idea that you have that you're going to have some kind of reformer who's going to come and wage war against the Romans and emancipate your people politically this is a completely wrong conception I've come from God to spiritually purify you and to return you to the true law of Moses whereby you may be spiritually and morally cleansed yeah because at the end of their political and economic degradation is secondary to spiritual and moral degradation that's actually the secret yeah okay you don't reform because there's a thousand political reformers the prophet Muhammad could have prophesied about there been thousands of political Wars in Islam amongst Muslims between Muslims and Christians you know he didn't mention any of he mentioned some of them but as prophecies but the major prophecy the prophet Muhammad made was about the Cure was the major prophecy he made in you know out of all of his prophecies were was about the Mahi and there's such an abundance ones about the m and the Messiah right um so it's quite clear that you know actually the fundamental issue is your spiritual moral degradation because that's the point he's making here he's not saying in this statement either of these statements I've read to you that there'll be nothing left of the Quran nothing left of the mosques he's talking about their religious and spiritual condition he's not saying that their LW their political power isn't it a terrible thing yeah because at the end of the day if people who don't even practice Islam properly lose their political power then what's it got to do with the prophet Muhammad yeah he's not interested their political condition he's interested in their spiritual condition okay so let's just recap then so what we're saying is that um the idea of the MDI has an Islamic basis and June you know June is right to talk about the Mahi in a way right because it has an Islamic basis in the Islamic prophecies in the Hadith and these also have support in the Holy Quran uh you have the idea of the Mahi the guided reformer who is said to also be the Messiah right the son of Mary the Messiah the reason why this individual is called the son of uh Mary I you the Messiah is because he will be like Jesus was unto the Jews so 1400 years after the you know you can say it's 1400 years after the prophet Moses peace be upon 1300 14 The 14th Century after the prophet Moses peace be upon Him Jesus came in the same way in the 14th century and 1300 years after Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him you find exactly the same conditions amongst the Muslims yeah they've lost their political power you know Western Nations have taken over them um exactly same thing happened to the Jews the Romans took over them Etc they political position of political weakness so this is why the same descriptor was used but it doesn't literally mean Jesus is going to somehow come back because the qu is quite clear that Jesus peace be upon him has died like every other Prophet so someone will come from the Muslim umah who will be guided by God to reform the Muslims spiritually well I mean this is I mean even the statement I've made you know I've quoted from the prophet Muhammad you don't even need to say well it's because Jesus is dead from the Quran the prophet mhammad himself here says he will be an Imam from among you now how can you be an Imam from among the people if you've come from 2,000 years ago you're not from among the people you're from 200,000 years ago like there's no such thing as being among you and being from 2,000 years ago yeah yeah yeah you know and the prophet Muhammad the Quran is very clear it says we you know the God always appoints a messenger from amongst the people to whom he has sent yeah because a person from 2,000 years ago cannot be an example for people of modern day now that's an interesting point because that that brings us into the second bit about June which is that um in June Paul comes and he is obviously said to be why did they choose Paul as the name of all the names it's the least epic name of all time yeah so Paul uh he comes and he's not from the sort of the beduins in the desert right he's from this great family and he's basically an outsider a Trad a tradies the family of TR House of Trades so he's come from the house of the tradies he's an outsider who has to be accepted in and the implication is is that he's going to be someone who comes from the outside and then leads the the beduin people in this you know war in this emancipation so this idea let's let's say the bedwin are um a metaphor not for the Muslims but for the Arabs right the bedwin people of June are a metaphor for the Arabs and someone comes from outside who's going to be the MDI does this have any support in Islam yeah it does so the prophet Muhammad made it clear that the Mahi wouldn't be an Arab mhm okay so the beginning of chapter 62 of the Quran it states that um it states that he it is who raised among the unlettered people in other words the illiterate people a messenger from among themselves who does various things so he recites unto them his signs and purifies them and teaches them the book and wisdom although they had been before that in manifest misguidance and then the next verse it says and among others from among them who have not yet joined them so he will be raised among others yes and he'll be raised so just as it says in the first vers he it is who raised among the unlettered people a messenger Who does these things the next verse then says and he will raise him again again amongst another people yeah and the prophet Muhammad who have not yet joined them joined the first so he they will also be companions yeah they but they will be from a different people they will not be from among the unlettered people of Arabia they'll be a completely different people uh right so when this verse was revealed the companions thought well what this means is it means the second coming of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and so they asked him so one of the this is narrated in sahkari the most authentic book of uh narrations and prophecies you know narrations so you know Abu who was one of the um Companions of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him you know he asked the prophet Muhammad when this verse was revealed he says while we were sitting with the prophet Surah Al was revealed and when the verse and he Allah has sent him also to others he said who are those amongst whom um yeah who are those amongst whom you will be sent who are these others who are these others to whom you will be sent so he asked the question he assumed that it'll be you but who are these other people you're going to be sent to and the prophet Muhammad actually didn't answer him and then he repeated his question a second time then he repeat this question a third time and the prophet Muhammad put his hand then on Salman Al Farsi who is a companion of the Salman the Persian he one of his companions called Salan one of the only non-arab one of comp the only non-arab in that Circle yeah you know in all likelihood so he chose the one person who wasn't an Arab and he said even if the faith were to ascend to the ples the ples is the constellation yeah even if Faith Iman escapes Earth escapes earth right it's no longer found there a man from among Salman's people from among the Persians willing it back to the so what that means is it's very interesting because the prophet Muhammad was asked who are the people to whom you will be sent and the prophet Muhammad actually he answered that question but he answered it by telling him an answer which was different to the question he asked cuz he asked who are the people who among whom you the Arab Muhammad peace be upon him will be sent yeah and he answered by saying it's going to be a Persian the person is the person who brings the faith back to Earth is going to be a non Arrow will be a nonar he be among the Persians so then the question is well how could the prophet Muhammad peace and come back as a Persian he's an Arab you can't change your ethnicity if you're the same person you you going have the same ethnicity right so it's an extraordinary answer he gave because it it explains in a nutshell the entire concept of the second coming of any Prophet it's quite similar to what Jesus you know said himself when he was asked you know why how are you the Messiah when um Elijah the Prophet Elijah from hundreds of years previously was prophesied that he would return to the Earth before the coming of the Messiah and Jesus says what did he say he said you know Elijah has come but you did not recognize him and you persecuted him in diverse ways you did whatever you wanted to him right and they said well who is it and then he said it's John the Baptist right now John the Baptist was his cousin born of Elizabeth raised on as a person in that day and age yeah but the prophet but the prophet Jesus peace be upon him said actually he is the second coming of Elijah right so both Jesus and the prophet Muhammad explained in their own ways the concept of a second coming of a prophet doesn't mean the same person it means the same person a different person with the same function you know and and people do this all the time they name their children after the name of famous people or people that they love Yeah in the hope that they will actually have some of the qualities of that particular individual Muslims do this all the time so you know a lot of Muslims are name Muhammad why is that why is Muhammad just overtook I think it was in the news just overtook you know it's the top most popular boy name in England now in England okay it's muham awward yeah it is a bit awkward is it all of Muslims like sorry about that well we're not actually that sorry but um sorry not sorry um and why is that it's because all the people all the Muslims parents they want their children to to to demonstrate the the the qualities of Muhammad peace be upon him yeah I mean you see even in science right you say this persons like you know they they they've called various people like the second Einstein the second Newton right Fineman was called the second d back was he yeah yeah but they said this time he came back as human cuz direct was a bit odd I know yeah um so this this is a very common thing where you apply an epithet to someone to indicate the qualities of the Forerunner yeah right so what he saying is that this is something that Jesus pece be upon him said with John the Baptist has come back is is the second coming of Elijah and the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him has said that his second coming will be a man from the non-arabs from amongst the Persians of Persian descent should we break it to the people should we just and the the crippling well I mean obviously we're from the Ahmed community and the crippling suspense for them sure but we're from the Aman Muslim Community and um yes obviously we believe that the founder of our community Ahmed ofan was that individual he claimed to be the Messiah and the Mahi he claimed to be the second coming of Christ and he clarified all these and he clarified and he's the one who gave us this understanding we didn't come up with this ourselves did we at the end of the day so this is the reality yeah okay and this is the only way you can actually make sense of the Quan and and the prophecies yeah I mean otherwise you just think of otherwise really religion is fairy tales you know Jesus is going to come down with a big sword and to kill all the non really is he okay well you know well then you know it's completely un Islamic teaching it's it's a fantasy right well the Quan says and the Quan says like there is no compulsion religion for you your religion for me My Religion right so that's actually comes on to the to the last bit so in June he's then talking about the you know says the fanatical leader of a fanatical religion and there's clearly you know the whole thing is about that there's going to be a coming war between these bedwin people and the uh these great Powers these Great Space fairing Powers you know and the only way you can win it is if you have this matthy character leading them so the idea there because arus the planet which he's gone to is being exploited politically so it is it is being the soil of the of the place is is a special compound which enables Interstellar flight right which is oil which is basically oil it's so Frank Herbert did that pretty explicitly because he was living through the OPEC crisis through the Iranian uh dep position of Iran and there was a history obviously in the 19th century of BP taking over oil fields in Iran Etc Persian Anglo Corporation whatever so you know he knew all of that and basically he used spice as a kind of sci-fi metaphor for oil yeah and this is this is what he gets wrong well I mean well the geopolitical stuff he gets right but the point is is that the mati isn't there to help you keep your oil but that's not his purpose but he's representing what we've said is the this this common misconception amongst the Muslims they there going to there's going to be a physical holy war whereas uh you know what's the reality when the Matan Messiah comes back in the prophecies in the Hadith is there any evidence that there's actually going to be a physical war that he's going to lead a physical war or not yeah so the prophet Muhammad explicitly stated you know he will end War yeah in other words you know he will he will not be fighting and then there's another of sah Muslim where it talks extensively about the coming of Jesus and it says G God will reveal Messiah yeah God will reveal to the son of Mary the Messiah in that age he will reveal to him that um I have raise two Nations Gog and MOG MH whom no one can contest MH don't bother don't even think about fighting these people okay you will be you will lose you will completely be crippled okay God says do not consider fighting them who no one can fight so Ascend the mountain and pray and your prayers will melt them as salt is dissolved in water mm all right so the so-called Jihad of Jesus explicitly by the prophet Muhammad is not a fighting worldly of the second Messiah of the second Messiah that's correct yeah sorry Jesus the second you know the second coming of Jesus is explicitly also known as the Mahi is explicitly not a warlike process yeah it is pray yeah it is actually go away from war it means go away from it goes to go into the mountains which is the mountain what is the mountain the mountain represents God yeah it represents the teaching of God right going ascending the mountain of all the great prophets of to ascended the mountain you know that's how they you know Mount Si Jesus in the wilderness the prophet Muhammad on um in the cave of Thor you know in Mount Hera Etc you know they will spend decades years praying in the mountain what does it mean it means to turn to God so and he said that your prayer will melt them and who are Gog and MOG they are um from our understanding of the Ahmed Muslim Community they're the civilization of capitalism and communism right so the US is the Soviet block and the and the Western block basically two major nuclear Powers uh you know go and Magog actually the Arabic is y and that comes from the root a which means fire yeah the the civilization of fire civilizations of fire um so and and actually the Bible in Ezekiel makes makes clear that you know who who they are but we can we can talk about that may maybe another time so you have this idea of Gog and MOG two major civilizations talk about just one moment the aij you know these are the civilizations of fire I mean our modern day civilizations of capitalism and communism have uh used fire in to its to a level which has not been seen in any other civilization and it's almost like a Hallmark of it in transportation in weaponry indust and War I mean fire has been used in the properties of fire you know to an extraordinary extent internal combustion engine is you know revolutionized the world what was that it was fire yeah okay so you have Gog and MOG these two major civilizations in this age which are fighting each other and which have you know been hot Wars and cold Wars um and uh you have this Mahi figure who comes the Messiah Mahi who comes and doesn't engage with them and actually says that we are going to emancipate ourselves through spiritual means through prayer what what Jesus did yeah exactly and and that's what June gets wrong because June is going off the common misconception of the Muslims can't blame Frank Herbert too much I mean he's taking them for their word in a way but actually when you dive deeper into the Islamic theology this becomes clear now I guess and in Frank Herbert's book he does make it explicit that this is Muslim doesn't he I mean you telling me that one of the books is actually called like uh the batarian Jihad yeah but I think that's a later book I'm not sure that was his his original and in the book apparently the word Jihad is bandied around it's us it's uh it's what they're doing there yeah yeah so it's it's very it's very thinly bed isn't it um so yeah not even thinly bed what we see in June therefore is a movie that gets some right about Islam um gets the idea of the Mahi correct um in so far as there is a prophecy in the end times and this T takes 20,000 years into the future um and but they get the function of the MTI completely wrong okay the function of the Mii is to be a spiritual reformer at a time of spiritual degeneration and we in the Ahmed Muslim Community believe that that M has come that's why we're covering this yeah yeah okay his H Ahmed mul Ahmed is his name he was born 183 1835 died in 1908 and he was a promised Messiah Imam M and he came and he explained all of these things and um you know we're going to be covering a lot of the signs of the m the signs of the Messiah what are the changes in the 20th century that were prophesied in our next video I think and when we look at what Joe Rogan has to say on the topic and we also cover that in an article which we're going to put in the link below about signs of the Latter day so if you want to kind of you know uh someone wants to check that out ahead of time then they can do that as well yeah absolutely all right should we check out the next video yeah

Channel: Rational Religion

Views: 13,095

Keywords: Dune, Islam, muslims, sci-fi

Id: aCly2Y8C5eg

Length: 34min 29sec (2069 seconds)

Published: Mon Dec 20 2021