Dune - The Grandfather of Real-Time Strategy

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I remember that there was a confusing period when there were two different Dune games, and they were both supposed to have been the same game, but one of them was an adventure and the other one was Command and Conquer before that game existed.

Because the first Dune was made by the wiggy French people who made Captain Blood, and Virgin was going to cancel it, but the developers managed to pull through. However Virgin had paid for another Dune game as insurance, which was sold as a sequel. The odd development meant that the developers of the second game had more time to polish it.

This was back when a publisher could ask some developers to magic up an A-list title in nine months. A side-effect of this is that the first game, the adventure - which had a lot more to do with the film, or at least it had a character portrait of Kyle McLachlan - tends to be forgotten nowadays.

👍︎︎ 148 👤︎︎ u/AshleyPomeroy 📅︎︎ Apr 12 2020 🗫︎ replies

Emperor: Battle for Dune will always hold a special place in my heart, and it really sucks that it's practically impossible to get nowadays without pirating it, and even then it runs rather shittily on modern PCs.

I spent countless hours just messing around in quick matches, easily putting hundreds of hours into just building bases and epic defenses that could withstand any enemy attack.

And the campaign... I still think it's one of the most creative epic campaigns I've ever played for a RTS. Fully filmed cutscenes with legit actors made briefings absolutely awe inspiring, and the way they tied in the lore (and their own lore) was perfect, and how they left it open just enough for you to follow Dune-lore while also making your own decisions.

It was the game of my childhood and I honestly wish Steam had been around at the time cause I honestly wouldn't be surprised if I put over 8,000 hours into it.

👍︎︎ 35 👤︎︎ u/walterdog12 📅︎︎ Apr 12 2020 🗫︎ replies

Dune II was a great game, the UI was terribly clunky and often got in the way of itself. If you really want to play a Dune RTS the remake Dune 2000 really cleaned it up and made it much more enjoyable. Emperor: Battle for Dune was released shortly after Dune 2000 and pretty much brought the "series" into full blown C&C treatment with video mission briefings and cut scenes.

Neither game has much to do with Dune beyond names.

👍︎︎ 63 👤︎︎ u/residentialninja 📅︎︎ Apr 12 2020 🗫︎ replies

I was searching for Emperor: Battle for Dune on GoG just a few days ago, and was surprised not to find out. A shame that Frank Herbert's family disagrees to revive the series, but maybe it's better to leave it in my memories.

That was a very nice video, subscribed.

👍︎︎ 34 👤︎︎ u/hooahest 📅︎︎ Apr 12 2020 🗫︎ replies

Dune 2 was one of the first CD's we got after getting a CD-Rom drive in our PC.

We got a 10 pack of games and Dune 2 was the only one we ended up playing. The music was the best. Still get this song in my head from time to time https://youtu.be/2WKBjmJCBHw?t=2670

👍︎︎ 11 👤︎︎ u/Thysios 📅︎︎ Apr 13 2020 🗫︎ replies

Hopefully if the upcoming Dune movie is successful enough, we can get some sort of a brand new title in the universe (be it RTS or otherwise), or a remaster of one of the old games. It'd be interesting to see the PSX version of Dune 2000 with updated graphics, for example, since that one used full 3D models instead of sprites like the PC version did

👍︎︎ 6 👤︎︎ u/Fatal1ty_93_RUS 📅︎︎ Apr 13 2020 🗫︎ replies

Sad to see a major mistake in the very title. The video is about Dune 2, not Dune.

Yes, Dune 2 is THE ancestor of RTS games. However, Dune was a different game, a very cool mix of adventure and strategy, with great music and graphics.

Ironically, while Dune 2 is better known, it has aged horribly, as the RTS genre has progressed immensely since that time. Dune 1, on the other hand, is still quite fun and playable.

👍︎︎ 8 👤︎︎ u/Sithrak 📅︎︎ Apr 13 2020 🗫︎ replies

What there’s a 2020 dune film?!

👍︎︎ 8 👤︎︎ u/Cykomaniaco 📅︎︎ Apr 13 2020 🗫︎ replies

Bought a second copy and a link cable for my PlayStation. Friend brought his PlayStation over and moved a second TV into my living room. Was a great day, but never got to play again.

👍︎︎ 3 👤︎︎ u/elcad 📅︎︎ Apr 13 2020 🗫︎ replies
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[Bowel-rattling noise] The noble Atreides. The insidious Ordos. The evil Harkonnen. Within their grasp, one desert planet, and the Spice to control the universe. Welcome to Arrakis. Dune was written by Frank Herbert, who was inspired by the Oregon Dunes. It started life in the monthly magazine Analog, later reworked into a single novel and published in 1965. Quickly accruing accolades and awards for its rich world and very human conflicts, it cemented itself as a science fiction classic, frequently cited as one of the greatest exemplars of the genre. You may have heard a little of Dune’s cinematic history. The license was first bought by Apjac International in 1971, but the Producer passed away before shooting could begin, and production was halted. The rights changed hands, with Alejandro Jodorowsky set to direct. Having spent $2 million on pre-production alone, and the script clocking in at a projected fourteen hours long, the project collapsed. To say it was overly-ambitious would be an understatement. Dino De Laurentiis acquired the rights in 1976. David Lynch was brought on board as Director, and the infamous Dune adaptation was finally released in 1984. The subsequent film was an infamous flop, but into the valley of opportunity rode Virgin Games. Enter Martin Alper. You may not know the name, but you might recognise the voice. >>RED ALERT ANNOUNCER: Enemy approaching. Alper was the President of Virgin Games. He enjoyed Dune, and managed to license the rights to make games based on the film. Specifically the film, interestingly. He didn’t have much of a concept, other than the idea of making adventure games, wanting Virgin to compete with Sierra Online. The project was given to Cryo Interactive, a small French development team. Virgin, however, was unimpressed with the infrequent and “sketchy” milestone submissions, and so the decision was made to can the game. At this time, Westwood Studios was developing Legend of Kyrandia. When a few of Virgin’s staff visited for a demo, they offered Westwood the Dune license. Brett Sperry, President and co-founder of Westwood. A fan of both the novels and the Lynch film, Sperry took the reins. He was asked to take a look at Herzog Zwei for ideas, a game the Virgin office had been playing extensively. The title, by the way, is German. Duke II. Hmm. “Herzog Zwei was a lot of fun,” recalled Sperry, “but I have to say the other inspiration for Dune II was the Mac software interface. The whole design [and] interface dynamics of mouse clicking and selecting desktop items got me thinking; Inspiration was also sourced from other venues; Populous, Civilisation, Military Madness, Westwood’s own Eye of the Beholder, and an argument Sperry once had with Chuck Kroegel, then-vice president of Strategic Simulations, who felt that wargames had passed their prime, mainly due to their roots in turn-based tabletop boardgames, haemorrhaging players to newer, more exciting genres. Sperry felt that the genre had barely been explored, making it a personal challenge to design a thrilling and fast-paced wargame. And so with Joe Bostic, Aaron Powell and the rest of Westwood behind the project, development began. Westwood’s Dune was released on MS-DOS in 1992, but it didn’t get to keep that name. Although Virgin had cancelled Cryo’s Dune, it turned out; no one told Cryo. They kept at work on the project, getting much further into development before Virgin found out, and managed to finish their game earlier that same year. Despite not being a sequel, it was Westwood’s title which received the name change, becoming Dune II. Although there were strategy games with real-time elements that came before, Dune II was the first RTS by virtue of being the game which gave the genre its name. The term was chosen by Sperry to distinguish the new style of play from the contemporarily niche ‘wargame’ and ‘strategy’ labels. Games like Herzog Zwei predated it, but it was Dune II that codified the standards, becoming the basis upon which future RTS titles would be built. You begin with a Construction Yard, which allows you to build Wind Traps for power, and a Refinery with an automated Harvester. The Spice it mines is turned into Credits and used to fund your army. It’s all there, albeit in a somewhat archaic package. Unlike later RTSs, it's not possible to select and command more than one unit at once, a feature introduced by later games such as WarCraft: Orcs & Humans, which allowed the simultaneous control of up to a grand total four. The command system is also rather basic. After selecting a unit, the player must choose a command on the sidebar or press the associated key, and then click to issue it. The context-sensitive cursor was added in the Genesis port only a year later, but it took another game to standardise these features. A ground-breaking game for the time, but clunky to control by the standards of today, a limitation also mentioned by some contemporary reviews. This is why much of the footage you have been seeing has been from Dune Dynasty, a faithful fan remake based on the OpenDune project. Dune II was one of Frank Klepacki’s earliest composition projects for Westwood. He drew inspiration for the Dune sound from Toto’s music for the film, and the soundtrack of the Cryo game by Stéphane Picq and Philippe Ulrich, but from there made it his own. The music would shift instruments every few bars and was built to accommodate dynamic tempo changes, allowing it to flow from score to score in accordance with the action on screen. [slow music] [dramatic music] Though of course for Frank, and indeed for Westwood, their finest work was yet to come. [gunshot] [the sound of power shifting quickly in the Brotherhood] Right from the start, Sperry was not content to be tied to a licensed property. >>SPERRY: What was interesting about all that is that >>SPERRY: you know what, and the end of the day, >>SPERRY: this is a prototype. >>SPERRY: I'm going to create something else >>SPERRY: without anybody's license, >>SPERRY: and it's going to be called Command & Conquer. [explosion] Even the name Command & Conquer was tied to Dune II before the game that would carry that name had even solidified as a concept. ‘The first in Westwood’s new Command and Conquer series’, ‘running on Westwood’s Command & Conquer engine’. A direct mention in the Dune II box, penned Fall 1992, reported in magazines as early as '93, and one even gives the new game a name. The January edition of The One Amiga ran an interview with Sperry ahead of Dune’s Amiga port, during which he teased “Command & Conquer: Fortress of Stone”. Louis Castle, co-founder of Westwood. "The first time we showed that game internally it had wizards and castles,” he recalled, speaking on this early form of C&C. “It solved one of the fundamental problems we had with making an RTS, which was that we wanted to have a central resource that everybody was fighting over. Dune has Spice, which made perfect sense and it was also used when we came to the idea of Tiberium.” The DnD-inspired fantasy setting was dropped in favour of a more-relatable near-future conflict, and inspired by the 1957 B-movie The Monolith Monsters, a potent green crystal would substitute the role of the Spice, becoming the resource around which the entire lore would develop. Command & Conquer launched in 1995, and- …well, you know the rest. But it wasn’t the end of the road for Dune. Not just yet. >>VOICE: On this planet... >VOICE: you will die. >VOICE: We have seen it. 1998 saw the release of Dune 2000, a remake of sorts of Dune II. While Westwood was working on Tiberian Sun, development was outsourced to British developer Intelligent Games, who had previously handled the Red Alert expansions. (EDIT: only the multiplayer maps) The gameplay is comparable to Red Alert, being a decent upgrade of the original Dune. It also included C&C series staple live action cutscenes, >>MONEO: Riches!? >>MONEO: Is that why you’ve come to this >>MONEO: bloody sand pit? which saw the return of the Atreides, Harkonnen, and Ordos. The Ordos were of course not in the original books, while the two other factions played very prominent roles. The name of the House was sourced from the Dune Encyclopedia, which was lauded by Frank Herbert but now regarded as non-canon by his estate. It appeared on a list of the Great Houses of the Landsraad, though the coat of arms of House Ordos as used in the Westwood games, a snake coiled around a book, was actually designed for House Wallach. Despite this being the only mention of Ordos anywhere in the source material, the House featured as a playable faction in every Dune RTS, allowing Westwood to develop their own lore for this House of traders and smugglers. >>MENTAT: Wormsign. Along with reprising his role as the Harkonnen announcer, Frank Klepacki returned to score the game, using it as an opportunity to remaster his Dune II soundtrack, now no longer limited by ancient sound cards. Dune 2000 really is just C&C on Arrakis, and it’s a shame then that the game is mostly forgotten today, now perhaps best known as being that other game that comes with OpenRA. It reviewed adequately at the time, though many reviewers disparaged it for its “dated visuals and overly familiar gameplay”, two factors which may have been contemporaneously sound, but are now non-issues. Sure, it’s still dated, but for a 22-year old game, isn’t that expectation the price of entry? Still, ‘tis better for a good game to be misremembered as a bad game, than to not be remembered at all. Much of the same can be said for Emperor: Battle for Dune, a game which follows the core tenants of C&C, but ends up feeling somehow different. Again outsourced to Intelligent Games, it was the first and in fact only 3D RTS to release under the Westwood name. It’s commonly believed to run on the Westwood 3D engine, the same engine used for Renegade, and which was adopted by EA under the name SAGE for every C&C from Generals up until 2010. This is actually not the case. Research by tomsons26 from the Assembly Armada has confirmed that Emperor in fact uses a completely different engine named Xanadu developed in-house by Intelligent Games. D2K similarly used its own in-house engine rather than Westwood's, despite common claims that it runs on the Red Alert engine. Emperor is a brave attempt to transition to a 3D perspective. It allowed for a pretty reasonable camera height, low camera being a common gripe with the SAGE games, but going to maximum height only exacerbates the game’s issues with design legibility. With the low-poly models and ease with which units clump together, the game can be somewhat murky in the way it telegraphs what it is that you’re looking at. It may have inherited its esoteric art style from D2K, but for a game from 2001, it can’t be faulted for its polygon count. Reading an object’s silhouette is always much easier with 2D imagery. You may not know what each of these units do until you get them to fire, but you will always be able to tell them apart. These guys definitely aren’t identical, but when we zoom out to a more playable height, they look like the same thing. The UI certainly doesn’t help. While the sidebar is definitely very appealing and well-designed, the health bar has been replaced with a translucent health ring, which is by default, half concealed behind the Guard mode icon. These are things you can overcome with time as you become more familiar with the game. The unit voices, however, are a problem which only gets worse the longer you play. Individual units sound great, but the game has unique voice barks for groups, and let’s just say it doesn’t have all that many. >>HARKONNEN UNITS: At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! >>HARKONNEN UNITS: At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! AAt once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! At once! The soundtrack, on the other hand, really is something else. This time, each House has its own unique music by a different composer. House Atreides is scored by Frank, taking a mostly orchestral approach similar to D2K, with some nods to his prior work. [music] Composed by David Arkenstone, House Harkonnen has a tense industrial quality, heavily featuring electric guitars for the melody. [music] However, it’s House Ordos that steals the show. [bombass music] These tracks were composed by Jarrid Mendelson, who had previously worked with Frank on Tiberian Sun. Unfortunately, these two titles would be the only games he would compose for, seemingly having left the industry after Emperor. [radtacular music] Shortcomings it may have, but they don’t define an otherwise quality game. Emperor, first and foremost, was ambitious. It set out to distinguish itself from Command & Conquer, becoming in the process an entity unto itself. This is its legacy. Emperor: Battle for Dune was the last game in the series to be released. Intelligent Games would close only a year later, and Westwood Studios would be liquidated by EA shortly thereafter. Our old friends Cryo Interactive would release one further adventure game based on the TV series, [Andrew Blanchard fart sound] shortly before the company filed for bankruptcy. And that, was Dune. It’s been over a decade since the last Command & Conquer released, but with the Remastered Collection on the horizon, that’s about to change. But what about Dune? Emperor released in 2001, and since then almost two whole decades have passed. Amongst all the talk of Remasters, thoughts have turned to Arrakis. It’s a shame it isn’t possible. Westwood may have had a degree of creative freedom, but Dune was ultimately a licensed product, and the license has since expired. Martin Alper hadn’t licensed the rights to make games based on the Dune books, but on the Dune film. “Dune is a trademark of Dino De Laurentiis Corporation and licensed by MCA / Universal Merchandising.” Every Dune RTS has some variation of this as part of its license. This creates a messy scenario; who actually owns the rights to the Dune games? The Frank Herbert Estate is of course the arbiter to the Dune property overall. Herbert licensed the media rights to Apjac in the early 70s, but these rights changed hands several times, eventually going to the De Laurentiis Corporation, who produced the film, distributed by Universal Studios. Virgin Games then licensed the rights from these two to make games on the film. EA buys Westwood and all associated assets, but some time after Emperor: Battle for Dune, the rights they held expired, reverting back to the prior owner. Now, it’s improbable that either De Laurentiis Corp or Universal still hold any rights over the games. They certainly no longer hold the rights to make films on the property, as neither are involved in the 2020 Dune film. However, the De Laurentiis Corp still retains the rights to the films they produced even after the license to make the film expires. They still own Dune 1984. Question is, how much of the film’s merchandising do these parties still control? EA may no longer have the Dune property, but they at least own the work done by Westwood and Intelligent Games. One would have thought so. Speaking on her efforts to distribute Dune II on GoG.com, Marta Adamska detailed the entire problem. And… that’s it. It's interesting then to note that in 2019 Herbert Estate happily approved the reprint of a Dune board game from 1979. ‘Should stay old’, indeed. As it stands, the Dune RTSs are out of print and cannot be sold digitally, If you want to play these games, you have two options; track down the physical discs, or ask a nice man with one leg, and you have no guarantee that the old discs will work on a modern computer. They didn’t on mine. December 2020 will see the release of a new Dune film from Legendary Entertainment. As a tie in, the Tencent company Funcom has been given the exclusive rights to develop games based on the new film. No RTSs have yet been announced, but even if Funcom were to attempt that route, the Westwood heritage is long gone. Still, never say never. Only 40 years now until dune enters public domain. Better mark your calendars, EA. The Dune series shouldn’t have to languish in obscurity. It has more than earned its place in gaming history, even if its license is caught up in limbo. It should be remembered; the lost older sibling of Command & Conquer; family in all but name. Dune II may not look like much now, but its effect on the games industry was prodigious. Even going beyond the concrete it laid down for Command & Conquer and so many other RTSs, it’s worth noting that it directly inspired WarCraft, setting into motion not only that franchise, but also the eSports juggernaut StarCraft, and the entire MOBA genre. There were many stopgaps on the journey, of course, many wonderful, creative people and fantastic innovative games, but if you trace their lineage, then the vestiges of their ancestry can still be seen. All pointing back to an old DOS game about mining Spice. My name is Stefan. Thank you so much for watching.
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Channel: No Strings Prd
Views: 473,587
Rating: 4.9476457 out of 5
Keywords: dune 2, dune ii, the building of a dynasty, the battle for arrakis, dune 2000, d2k, dune 2k, emperor battle for dune, empaeror battle dune, command and conquer, command & conquer, westwood, ms dos, dos rts, classic rts
Id: HOemQuy2JUc
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 21min 13sec (1273 seconds)
Published: Sun Apr 12 2020
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