Dr. Ramani Durvasula: You Are Why You Eat

hello and thank you for joining us this evening I'm Karen Livingston a trustee of the Brooklyn Public Library the library trustees are co-sponsoring tonight's author talk with Brookline access television we are fortunate to have dr. Ramani Durvasula in Brookline to discuss her new book you are why you eat change your food attitude change your life dr. du vassula is both a licensed clinical psychologist and private practice and professor of psychology at California State University Los Angeles she's frequently featured in television and print media you may have seen dr. Duda sula on Bravo's the intervention the Today Show Good Morning America the dr. Oz Show dr. Drew's life changers and really too many more to share in the short introduction that applies also to the many media outlets in which her work an expert opinion had been cited would like to thank Debbie Thompson a Brooklyn resident and friend of dr. du vassula for arranging to have her available for this presentation now it's my pleasure to introduce you to dr. Ramani Durvasula thank you so much thank you for having me here it's in Brookline - to be able to talk to a group like this that wants to learn not only more about the book but also to have a discussion about some of these issues about where we are and sort of wait health wellness and life in sort of modern times I'm gonna give you a little bit more background on me beyond what what Karen offered I'm an academic I'm a clinician I'm operating this sort of strange media space I've been on co-hosted reality shows for better for worse and and I also have a weight loss story of my own I lost 85 pounds and took it off took me 17 months then I kept it off and that's a it's a funny lens to view all of this through I will start with an anecdote and I'd like to kind of go into the principles of the book but I was at a doing a book signing in Los Angeles early very early in the game was early to mid January one of our first events and a woman approached me then the woman was probably I'm guessing you know she was she was definitely she was carrying a fair amount of weight and I mean it's probably the way I was so I mean I noticed people they notice how they move in the world in fact one of the most interesting comments I ever got from someone who watched me on television says she moves like she was once overweight which is interesting it's as though it's a ghost that I always carry with me I do still move as though as I'm overweight and this woman said and she looks at the book and she's like it she rolls her eyes and she's like which comes right up to me and she's like write one more book written by a skinny B word telling the rest of us how to live our lives so I picked up the book and those of you get you'll see on page 20 it's a picture of me when I did weigh over 200 pounds holding my daughter and I didn't even say word to I just compassionately looked at her open the book to that page and handed it to her and she said oh now I'm willing to listen so this is one of those journeys where it's almost as though every book about a coke addict has to be written by someone who once used coke and perhaps every book about weight loss it helps sometimes to hear the story from that perspective but I will be honest with you of somebody who has and I think continues to struggle with weight it helps me when the messenger has been there and I know when I'm with my patients my heart's breaking with them because I get it and it's a little bit unnerving to work with a trainer who's never been anything but lower normal weight who's saying I love tail I don't love Cal you know and so that's that's one so from there we begin is that I then set out to write a book it wasn't just about weight but was also about authenticity because that was a huge part of this journey there was no way I was gonna lose this weight until I connected all of the dots the weight served a function the food served a function break the function and I was gonna break the cycle any anyone in this room could sit down and lose 5 10 20 50 70 pounds it's easy to lose weight super easy maintaining it is a nightmare and that's where the psychology comes in so I'd like to open up with a question which is to ask you how many of you or did any of you or do you know anyone who grew up with the clean plate club okay tell me how that fold it in your family okay all right good enough thank you yeah it's like I plant it on me thank you anyone else who grew up with that and how did it evidence itself in your family okay there it was and I grew up with it too and I just just to give you a background that was also very cultural for me I grew up in a traditional Indian family and to talk to you how deep the subtext of this was not only did you have to finish everything in your plate my parents came from India at a time when people really were starving in the streets it wasn't when they grew up in the 1940s and 50s India really was undergoing a famine and if even though they were a middle class family people in the street were dying my mother had four cousins died prior to the age of two due to malnutrition when they guilted me for 19 you better believe it was like real guilt it wasn't even like they're disturbing in China they starved in our family okay so this is where this book started for me because this idea of the clean plate was super concerning for me because what I thought it was doing was it was robbing people of instinct eat the vegetable you don't like eat past the point of being full stay at this table until until we say so if any of you have ever fed an infant whether your own children a niece and nephew a grandchild and if you want one of those really virtuous mothers as I was not who made their own baby food it often came in a jar I use Earth's best so at least I played that organic card but chem comes in a jar let's do all baby foods right and you feed the baby out of the jar and the baby eats okay and then what happens when the baby is full what does it do this just turns its head right it doesn't have words it's not verbal so it turns its head and it moves it around it's clear the kids done can't tell you it's five months old six months old most mothers then keep going cuz why they want to empty the jar as though Earth's best knows how much food your child needs not your child your child's pure instinct it knows exactly how much food it wants and it knows when it's done okay so mom then switches to the airplane the minute the airplane comes out that's when trouble begins because this kids no longer hungry and but what happens is the next step is what's critical every time a baby eats and takes of a spoonful of food into its mouth how does the mom react hey like as though this is some damn great thing you did the baby's eating it's hungry okay so what's the baby learning it's literally slowly making the Association I'm not really hungry but golly I love this woman and I love her smile it's primitive it's hardwired I want her to keep smiling all right let's forget this hungry thing I'm just gonna keep eating cuz she's smiling she's all in she's gonna pick me up when I'm mad she's gonna take care of me okay you see that shift subtle as it is it keeps going think of the three-year-old or the four-year-old child who's told you can't leave the table until you're full or even worse food starts being used for other purposes baby the kid falls down cries hurts his knee here's a lolli here's a cookie kid gets straight A's and when they're eight years old let's go out for dinner let's get an ice cream son you can't win something bad happens here's a cookie something good happens here's a cookie so when were 35 and the dude breaks up with us we have a cookie we get a promotion we have a cookie you see it's like a one-stop shop but all along and all of this what's happening we stop listening to our instincts they were kind of broken for us early on in the book I used the term spider senses to talk about these so called instincts I took that from spider-man and sort of a Stan Lee fan and the idea that you kind of you know in the spider-man knew some scary was coming you know what's best for you you always have the table is where we learn this and sadly where we unlearn this and where most of us are unable to eat from a place of instinct so what are the things that scramble those so-called spider senses in my research in my clinical work in my life I've noticed sort of three main things fear what I call stake holders and golden rules okay let's talk about those stakeholders cuz to me that's the most critical piece here stakeholders are anybody whose opinion matters to you husband wife boyfriend mom dad grandma next-door neighbor boss waiter now I go down that list and I hit wait are you a waiter I don't care what the waiter thinks the hell you don't cuz when the waiter is like um you say I'm done and the waiters like wasn't it good what do you do no honey it was great really look I'm still eating it you don't know this waiter you're probably never gonna see him or her again and you're eating to please the waiter I say no one ever eats alone you think you're eating alone there's actually 20 people at that table every single night mom dad grandma anyone you've ever known anyone who's ever weighed in on your food choices anyone who's ever maybe called you out for being overweight when you were younger anyone who's influenced your pattern of food intake it's at that table and so those stakeholders have a tremendous amount of power and whether or not you say no I about an anecdote in the book where I was in I was in New York and I had walked and walked probably seven eight miles was freezing cold like I was so I had gone to the gym I'm thinking I'm a paragon of virtue alright and I was going I wanted I wanted a crepe and a crepe is a very fatty calorie rich fruit God looks so good so I end up at the crepe shop the thing is enormous it's like the massive breed I wanted a third I'm like can you make a third no most times you go into restaurants can you make it throw this he notices the size we make I was willing to make the ten dollar commitment fine I go I knew a third was right I ate my third I pushed it back I started doing I bought a book and I started reading waitress comes by and she was she was crestfallen wasn't good oh my god what can we do to make it better it was fine but back in the day I would have kept eating so that's what I'm saying about the power of these moments and how influential these people are they scramble our instincts all of the time let's jump the rails a little bit we're talking about the table and that's easy right like I can say noted someone at the table I can avoid the second helping even though mom said she made the lasagna for three hours and golly she misses me and if I just loved her I'd keep eating the lasagna you could do that but what about when those stay cold start weighing in on things like your relationships your job your spending habits you'll move across the country many people I imagine everyone in this room can think of at least one big-ticket decision where they did not approach it from a place of instinct because their stakeholders talk them out of it and in retrospect it might have been one of the biggest mistakes they ever made that's how powerful these stakeholders are yeah it's a second helping how big a deal is that I'll tell you how big a deal it is you probably consumed two to three thousand extra calories a week in the name of your stakeholders have another cookie I baked these I worked hard wasn't it good all of those little things in fact I was at Debbie's home tonight for dinner and I said to her point-blank I said I'm not going to eat everything you gave me I just want a couple bites so I don't sound woozy or drunk up and and we had it all worked out because I think the Debbie of your when I push it away would have wanted to say are you sure you're not done and I told her I prepared I'm like I'm really not gonna eat that much that's why I'm doing this Debbie wasn't hurt her husband wasn't hurt they gave me exactly what I needed and so it was done but that will look at all the preparation that took you know and back in the day when my mother would say I worked so hard on this why aren't you eating this it's very powerful so that stakeholder piece is huge and I think what happens is if they're able to so powerfully influenced you at the table they're all so powerfully influencing you in your life and no one they're not going to throw you a parade at the end of your life because you did everything they asked you to in my practice when I've worked with older patients I think one of the most tragic and difficult things to observe is the people who did everything that was asked of them by everybody else everything married when they should have took the job lived in the place lived next door took care of them had the kids since they literally lived it according to script because they thought I'm gonna please I'm gonna please them and this is a room of many women I'm gonna please okay the people they pleased went on and do you think they ever threw him a parade or said thanks but they sure would let him know when they let him down and we don't like letting people down so we avoid it and like I said whether at the table in in our careers in our relationship so that was a big up thrust of this book I want to give you some sense of why that stakeholder piece is so important to mean it's cultural okay again in every one of us in this room has a culture I I my parents immigrated from India every one of you some of you may be the children of immigrant parents some of you may have grown up with you know two sets of religions or traditions coming together in your home regions of this country have so culture is not just being an immigrant its cultures culture everyone has one okay I'm gonna tell you the myth from the Ramayana that I was raised with and I'm gonna tell you how the whole game turned for me when I learned the sort of the PostScript I'm gonna give I'm gonna take a many hundred thousand line epic poem and take it down in about three minutes it's a beer bear with me those of you who are Romney honest colors you can make you loved out some important details I'm aware okay Rama and Sita Rama was the anointed king of a kingdom kingdom IO of IO Thea and he was he was really godlike in fact almost like a minor deity himself but he gets to post from his throne and sent into exile and so too does his wife Sita Sita is the most dutiful honorable authentic dutiful woman in the kingdom it is how every Indian woman is raised to be dutiful duty above all else never questioned listen to your stakeholders I was raised on this every day every night every bedtime story you all have a bedtime story like this you were raised on I thought Duty was gonna be that's it you did that it was all gonna work out much like a Jane Austen book like she they would always be dutiful but they'd always get the guy in the end so how it works okay so see if the God exiled to and they sent numerous the demon sent numerous temptations to her and to see if she'd succumb ok 14 years Alone's a long time Rama then gets to take his place on the throne and he sends for his Queen Sita but the people are suspicious they say hmm 14 years alone all those temptations we cannot have it on pure Queen we need to know that she's pure before she steps up into this position Sita was the see that was the most authentic woman that's the part I wasn't taught she was authentic she was honorable beautiful and her husband believed it at some level but stay colder pressure it's like sweetheart I know you weren't cheating on me but could you do what they asked her to so we could just kind of get this whole king/queen thing going on and so the people that he says the people what shall she do and they said she should walk through fire if she comes through the fire unscathed unburned she is pure okay but if she is burned we will know that she was not honorable and she cannot be our queen well obviously she'd be dead - okay fine see that says yes your honor I shall do whatever you want dutiful dutiful walks through the fire what happens to her she comes out unscathed not a single thing unburned perfect that's the story I was raised on so you can imagine like I gotta listen to these stakeholders man let's hold this whole instinct thing I can't do this even though I was like I know my path and it's not this but like see if the seat the seat that dooty dooty dooty fire fire fire after I turned 40 after I lost the weight after I got a divorce that results in to my entire family walking out on me leaving me alone high and dry with two kids and I lost all my friends in this mess and there was nothing untoward it's a divorce but Indian girls don't get divorced I went digging into the Romney honor like what the hell and then I found out what the rest of the story was after seat the walk through the fire and came out unscathed her husband was relieved and he said oh of course of course she's pure my wife I I was I was sure darling all along I never thought anything of you and she said sweetie I love you but I'm out of here okay because you didn't believe me and she was too authentic too honorable for the world she returned to mother earth it's not like she went to Vegas or anything like that images you know she went back to her mother she went to it was I'm almost like a a Melville hero she was too pure she was too good and she went back to that place it was a story about walking away this is the book about walking away from a half full plate of food when you're done eating even though every voice is saying finish what's on your plate out of guilt out of fear out of golden rules go old stories like the Ramayana out of your stakeholders or stay think of how many people it might be yours it could be people you know who stayed in broken relationships because they didn't want to upset the applecart they didn't want to let down their mother they didn't want people to call them out and say you're lazy make this work you just made a bet you made him might have made a bad choice on the way and it happens sometimes you didn't honor your instincts at that level but now your instincts are saying run for me once the weight came off my marriage is falling apart before I tried to lose weight what had happened was my daughter got very sick she was dying and we couldn't figure out what was going on and then we got her in the hospital and after six weeks of intensive intervention she's fine now she's a Spitfire and got in trouble in school today and everything so she's just fine and she's nine it was she was 2 at the time at that time though it was a wake-up call like you and I read a quote by Gotha and the quote was one lives but once in this world and I thought oh my god like I can't I kid this is I can't wait 13 years and fix this because then I'll say 13 years ago you knew this marriage was broken but it was too big I knew everyone was gonna walk on me I knew what was coming and I was terrified so I thought we were supposed to go to a wedding I put on dresses they all ripped I'm like how much do I weigh I thought I weighed 160 away 200 and so started my weight loss but as the weight came off and I listen to myself you can't just listen to yourself at the table and not start listening to yourself everywhere else I gave my permission to go to a place of instinct there then in fact my ex-husband and I then had the painful conversations that led to the dismantling of a marriage then I was also told my academic colleagues I wanted to go into a career in media I said we need some legitimate psychologists who are not life coaches that look like pole dancers getting up there and telling us about live our lives like I can do the pole dancer thing if you want but I really do have a PhD like we need better messengers and my colleagues in that university said you're nuts you do this you're destroying your academic career I've had tenure at the time so it wasn't I was still not I'm not full risk but they said no don't do it don't do it my mentors everything I'm like but this feels right it feels right what's the worst that's gonna happen right they can't take my tenure away ironically I did it all in this year I was named the outstanding professor at my university so it all it was instinct the marriage ended we are dear friends the media career happened I was named outstanding professor and the 85 pounds are off but what does it mean doing every day not not once a year not once every second every day you deal with the stakeholders you deal with the fears you deal with the golden rules those golden rules maybe the Romney Jana they may be an Old Testament story they may be a Greek myth they're whatever you were raised on but really take a moment and think about those stories you were raised on and how powerfully they still affect you when I do seminars one thing I do is I have everyone in the room talk about that one childhood story that's still dogs them you know can any of you actually think of one of those that like you know that one myth that one story that you're like it still makes you do wonky things like deny your instincts cuz it was such a teaching anybody I've got lots that's I mean of course I'd the luxury of having music while I bet if you do think about it though it'll come to you those those childhood stories that's still you know one that really got me was my my distorted the red shoes and if you remember that hands christian andersen's story the girl um it's a girl her father's a poor woodcutter every year she gets one pair of shoes she every year she buys they get her a pair of brown leather shoes and then one year she's walking by the store there's a beautiful pair of red shoes and the in the window the most beautiful thing she'd ever seen such a good girl she knew she couldn't have them one your her parents trusted they they give her the money herself to go get the brown leather shoes and she buys the red ones instead and she puts on those red shoes and you know what she starts to dance because that's what you do when you wear red shoes but then she can't stop dancing because the red shoes of course are demonic because they meant she went against her parents and she starts dance and she can't stop dancing and she's dancing on street and she dances to the point of exhaustion and she can't stop and if she doesn't stop she's gonna drop dead from exhaustion so then her father has to cut off her feet I remember being seven single aryl if you don't listen to mom and dad and you get the pants that they don't like they're gonna cut your legs off I know it's metaphor but think about how many times you think they're gonna cut something off maybe even themselves if you don't listen to them at our age we still do that so those are the tenants yes please Debbie yeah I think we all do to a point I mean I think one of the biggest takeaways we'll have tonight is how important mindfulness is at the table and in them all every big ticket space we occupy in our lives love food work and most importantly parenting is a mindfulness space how often do we go back to that point of reflex with our kids like we just do it our parents do it I mean it's just what we do it's what we know and you have to catch yourself and not hand those scripts over it is really about catching yourself what I did was I read my daughter's the story of the red shoes cuz I figure it's like it's better that they have their first drink with me right like let him get drunk on my watch so I can say is that terrible let's read the red shoes together okay and then we talked about it and how did that sort make you feel Shanti this makes me angry all she did was buy those shoes that wasn't it terrible that's you're absolutely right sweetie she honored her dream so can you imagine that in part and then we what we do is we often turn it into metaphor to teach about other parts of the world I said in some parts of the world girls don't have a voice and if they go against society bad things can happen so what can you do in your life to possibly change this for them she's like well I'm very grateful I don't have to live like that so we have we make it a conversation I say bring the old school what I call a fairy tale porn in front of them and then educate them you know educate them like use it as a teaching point and say that it's okay to be bold it's okay to honor your instincts because I think for us over and over the theme with my kids is honor your instincts and my in my house the meals done when they push the plate when said I'm done and it's often covered in food it was fascinating because my daughter of took my daughter 12 and 9 okay and they're both normal weight kids active is key they're not athletic kids they're like me I'm not truly athletic I they're not athletic but they're active at school and they run around and all of that and we've gone to someone's home for dinner and the food was laid out for all the kids to help themselves I did not monitor my kids filling their plates because I was talking to the host and so my filled up her plate and the other girl filled up her plate and they're sitting down eating at my clearly overfilled her plate I think she was trying to get one of everything it was just a lot of choices she ate what she ate their parents you do need to make sure you put you put healthy things in front of them but sometimes you don't quite get it right you give him four carrots instead of two two is a perfectly fine portion size you just got to make sure the stuff going on the plate it's okay I looked at her plate it was fine enough it was a barbecue she left probably fifty percent of her food on the plate and she said mom I'm done and I looked over I'm like that's cool you know it's fine I'm just making sure you just make sure you clear your plate and the other girl went ballistic she's like at our house we finish everything and I circuit that I said to the little guy see we don't actually we don't we listen to our bodies and Maya's body is full right now and she didn't of healthy amount of food she just took too much and I said my next time was tried to take a little less I'm you don't want to waste but you know so and I you know would saw if anyone else wanted to eat some of the portions whatever but the fact was it was she was done the other girl though Seth firmly and staunchly and ate everything on her plate what's fascinating this child is now really struggling with obesity and she's been eating everything on her plate since she was three years old because her father won't let her do it any other way and she doesn't even know she completely her instincts where food is concerned or totally want so I really think that I do try to parent my kids from a place of instinct and then bring all that stuff over them use them with teaching moments [Music] yes a couple of different ways one thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna actually bring out one of the things I was going to talk about later because it fits right here there's something I really pushed to people something called the Apple test I talked about this another today show anything on dr. Oz and all these other places but basically what the Apple test is it's something very intuitive I actually develop it around my daughter and then I used with my patients learn how this one works you can use it for yourselves and your kids but basically when you're hungry you think you're hungry ask yourself the question think about some of your favorite fruits and vegetables it could be apples strawberries cucumbers whatever floats your boat but healthy you know healthy high-fiber healthy choices and and say to yourself I'm hungry okay mm-hmm you're hungry will an apple do the trick if the answer is yes you're hung you're probably hungry you know good today on the airplane on my flight here I was so hungry that Apple in my bag I mean it was just it was just phenomenal it's wonderful - what I wanted but there were times right and that's great and then at that point you can make some healthy choices eat some lean protein you need some it eats some fruit multigrain whatever you didn't listen to your body stuff when you're done you can do the same thing with your kid I'm hungry okay we've got four great choices we have apples we have carrots we have broccoli you know we have strawberries and a kid if they're hungry they'll be like bring on those strawberries mama I'm in ok but there are times you yourself will say I'm hungry but it Apple's gonna not gonna cut it I want chips you're not hungry so then you get to use the second test and I trim the second test flabs just so you haven't take away acronym flabs stands for frustrated lonely angry bored and sad the five primary reasons people eat for emotional reasons okay that Apple's not gonna do it it has to be chips or a cupcake or cookie save flaps mmm am i lonely am I bored am i sad what am i right now she's not hungry so using this food to do something it's not designed to do an apples not gonna hug you I mean I'm sorry a cookies not gonna hug you a bag of chips is not gonna make you feel less lonely but it may for a moment and that's where their power comes from in that moment these other foods do address the emotion but the problem is at the back end not only have you not addressed the emotion now you feel worse because you're still frustrated and you ate all those chips okay I actually take I have a poster this is flabs and there it's on my fridge on my dashboard on my computer it's all over the place and so when I go in I'm like what do you do in romani what are you doing so when I'm frustrated I think about what what am i frustrated about address the emotion maybe I need to stop doing what I'm doing cuz it's not working out right now I go do something else when I'm lonely I'll tell the phone and friend if I'm bored I'll do an activity that actually engages me and sometimes I tell people while they're not filling those emotions and we with my patient will make lists of those things you know what are other things you'd like to do and then oh you know cheap things you do for 10 minutes read a book watch TV go on Facebook do your hobby play with your dog whatever it is sometimes it's even clean out your sock drawer it's just whatever floats your boat at the time but you do that instead of eat the bag of chips and initially I actually have my junk food locked up it's behind a child lock and in that and it's like you need two hands so in the in that one minute I'm playing the Harry Houdini of like trying to unlock the Oreos I'm thinking it says flaps on my girlfriend give it a rest like stop you know you don't need this but those moments those moments of delay can be the difference between me mindlessly eating for cookies and me saying come on go do something else and then I will go outside I'll do something else okay so to the point of your children is to say use that Apple test you're all you have that means it's a mom you have to have the healthy choice doesn't know what they like and have them available they'll say yeah to those things now kids are little animals and sometimes they do get hungry a little later make those options healthy ones like let them listen to their bodies because I will typically my kids we eat as soon as when they get home from school I've the luxury of doing next I don't have a spouse and I'm a partner so we were able to eat when the when the kids need to eat so they know we don't do the after-school snack thing I would say five nights out of six my kids don't ask for dessert I mean they eat well at dinner but when they do because it's not that frequent I mean my house looks like a 7-eleven like there's crap everywhere and you know what it's because it's not forbidden they're able to hang with it they rarely go nuts I remember being at a gingerbread party decorating house party house decorating party and the other kids look like crackheads like there was like sugar all over their faces and like M&M smeared on their hands and I'm thinking can you forget this stuff my daughter made her gingerbread house and she'd already went outside but it was because the stuff was always available to her it's always available to her so it's again it loses its luster I say marry the junk food if you have to wake up next to it every morning it gets to be a lot less interesting you don't feel like you're having an affair with that bag of chips so that's what it comes down to so really it's about listening to those emotions and then finding the appropriate way of handling an emotion food does not address emotion it does I mean the short term it will not in the long term and it'll typically backfire so that's sort of that's that that's how it ends that not only for your children but for others there any other questions I can keep going on some of the other points I'd wanted to make one of the things I'm gonna bring up is something I'm largely bringing it up because Debbie was such a fan of this one and and I think it's a very useful point in the book this idea of stakeholders and one of the things that our stakeholders do is they they fill us with a doubt doubt is the one thing that throws us off our instincts more than anything right we're great at doubting ourselves and in fact self-doubt is one of the core symptoms of many mental illnesses like anxiety and depression okay so self-doubts big and think of how often self-doubt has paralyzed you I can't do this I don't have what it takes he's not gonna like me I can't lose weight no scripts are running all the time okay we're masterful it self-doubt so you can imagine since we're already running that tape if someone else adds to it it's a home run like you're not gonna do it the one question I think is one of the most damaging questions out there you can get or you can ask is are you sure are you sure you had enough to eat I think it's great how could someone ask you that it's your body it's your stomach now I'm not talking about clients with eating disorders I'm not talking about my patients anorexia I'm talking with people in the normal realm of eating okay you've had a meal too much what's given to you you ate until you were full you pushed it away and they say are you sure it's like they're saying I don't believe you you don't get your own body now I know a lot of your rolling rice income on Romany they're just trying to be nice and you're right it has become a culturally acceptable question okay it's totally fine she's beautiful absolutely wonderful so it's you know it's a way of handling that you know it's like huge be are you sure you had enough rather than oh I'm so glad you enjoyed it if you want more later absolutely have some more in the kitchen thank you that's so that's a lot more words and are you sure okay but here's the thing with are you sure it doesn't stop at the table does it think about the big ticket decisions you've made in your life again ending a relationship starting a job college you chose something for your children most it's an iceberg most of that decision was made under the wall you're ruminated about it you had sleepless nights maybe you talked to a professional maybe you talk to your spouse he kept it very intimate you didn't take it out you didn't launch the idea until it came out out of the water all the work with the decision-making work was done and then one day you go out in the world and I remember saying people me and Charlie are splitting up and you know what ninety percent of them said are you sure I know it's like damn house for five years you know I mean I was furious I felt so disrespected you know me well enough I'm not gonna make fill this decision now think of how many times you've been asked are you sure when you made a big-ticket decision now many of those people in retrospect said I was so concerned I wish I knew a better thing to say how about things like tell me more how are you doing how are you feeling is everything okay they're sort of an are you sure under that and they might be like are you sure but can't you trust your friends instincts or your loved ones instincts it's the ultimate gift you can give them and so this idea of are you sure starts at the table and it generalizes and again that's one of the big theses of the book is all of these things generalize you think it's just about how you're eating but then you realize it's how you're living and I do hope if you only take one thing out of here it's like you catch yourself in the are you sure I did it to my kid to night it's ago I was and you know when I admit ask are you sure when I'm not being mindful I was like half reading one thing she was eating her dinner she had left four of her stalks of broccoli what she's eating four and um mom I'm done and I did are you sure and I was like and she said she looked at me like this you know it is that it is a very instinctual question but catch yourself in that instinct because that that it's that moment of doubt yes to someone else I get that I get that yeah are you fool though is is I would I like a little bit more about our you fold and are you sure is are you sure is almost like do you even know it's like there's a real essence of doubt there keep in mind with children they are learning their bodies they are learning their instincts they are learning themselves we we are there we are there their tour guides to their hearts and their stomachs and their minds we're helping them navigate this territory and say you know do you feel like you've had enough because this is it like we're not we're going we're stepping out or we're going to school there's going few hours we can't have food like you're preparing them for what's coming and don't should know that but a child doesn't have the luxury sometimes of packing the extra food they may need or something like that so you were preparing them but the are you sure over time does make them say I don't know and then like I said you don't want that to generalize so they say have you had enough because keep in mind we're not going to eat well have you had enough because you don't get lunch at school till noon you had enough because what we really can't stop the car you know give them context so they understand and they do listen to their body because by and large again kids are much better at satiety and understanding it than we are because we're often using food to numb a feeling when we're trying to use food to numb the feeling we overeat because that's feeling a fullness means where we're paying attention to that and not this so I'd say that you know they take the are you full and contextualize it yeah that would be it any other comments and are you sure yes so this actually is a segue to that and related to something he had said earlier which is about your children sort of having ready access to foods in part you know the sort of considered quote unquote junk foods and part two you know kind of diminish some of that excitement so I actually work as a physician and I do a lot of Integrative Medicine and I'm very focused on helping new tradition and working the underserved and you know really trying to bring that kind of holistic perspective to my children I will tell you that I feel like I'm a salmon swimming upstream oftentimes oh sure I know as we all you know anybody who thinks about health and nutrition skills with children and I know that NPR has been doing a lot because I'm childhood obesity and they've been doing terrific job sort of contextualizing what it needs to be raising children both in the family front and in the larger society and I will tell you that I also my oldest who is eight and a half spreads of Noah has you know even just said yesterday you know mama I know you're doing it for my health but you're there you are one of the strictest moms I know around deserts in part because we try the other way rocky that's you know having an available and it only begat more and that's what's important that's it wanna sort of address that biochemistry yes yes because I think that we're actually you know my personal experiences that you by offering that you're you can create some of that biochemical feedback which really creates addiction which is beyond the child's control that I totally agree and I think where it's getting trickier and trickier is the processed food where does it go it's sort of like mainlining it and there I totally agree especially again working in low-income populations and and knowing exactly that that is what what is so readily available I think you bring up a key issues to know your children and know what they can environmentally handle every child is different in terms of what they can and can't have it house just like adults some adults can tolerate having a lot of unhealthy options in the home many of my patients can't they have to do a full-on purge like yeah this is intolerable for them to the point of distress so we're like it has to be a purge like this is this isn't worth the distress and so everyone is different I think it is really to honor that and I do think that biochemical piece is huge and you're right then it does jump the rails into something that we can't that is now even harder to fight back it's very interesting because on some of these diet plans these so-called physician-led diet plans of my adult patients have been put on there's an overuse of artificial sweeteners what the artificial sweeteners do it's like methadone to heroin it still the tone has been set and the person still the brain is the brain is not gonna be played like that it thinks sugar is coming and so you're you're very much still very much in the sugar game so while you're not getting the calories your body still amping up the response and more than anything it's craving it so for these patients who are losing the weight the craving hasn't dissipated so they really feel like they're suffering in the maintenance phase so I have to say with the artificial sweeteners I mean they're actually I almost say to people if you're gonna want a little sugar put the one packet of sugar in your iced tea and have like put the the sixteen calories worth and and have it be a little sweetened but don't don't keep overplaying the sort of the poisonous artificial sweeteners because they do say and then the person over uses I'm gonna make everything sweet because they're not they're not feeling status those are great points but I do think with your kids you set the tone in your house and it's a dance it's a very gentle dance with your kids and you've got to know what works what doesn't work and then prepare them for the onslaught because one day they're gonna be 1516 and making their own choices I'm it's funny my older daughter said let's do an anti fast-food strike in our house she's like let's not eat fast food for three months cuz every so often it's a seven o'clock I've got two kids and we have no food and Isaac will succumb she's like let's see if we can pull it off you know we're in week two we're doing great but there are times I'm like oh we gotta get out of the car it's LA we got to get there you know whatever we're gonna go salads we're gonna pull in whatever go to Whole Foods or get something prepared but there you gotta bring you bring you make your kids collaborators I mean I think that instead of it being done do to them let it be done with them even you make a chart like hey we're two weeks into our we're not gonna eat fast food or were two weeks into making a healthy choice it's a beautiful thing they do in Los Angeles it's called the pizza garden and the pizza garden they grow wheat they raise cows they grow tomatoes and the cows for the cheese and the go through the cheese and you they they were taught that that Pizza took eager to make and now my kids are like wow it took a year to make this pizza we better respect this pizza and it's really a lovely paradigm and these are things you can do at home with your kids but really take food and stop making it a rush space because then they can eat mindfully the other thing we do try to do is like we do try to you know grill play a game like how are you feeling after that bite and we do check-in which I try to teach them in mindful eating now because I think it's a thing that most adults have come to you never I mean the funny thing about human beings is a by and large mammals will not eat themselves to death they'll stop you know you don't see a ton of obese squirrels except the ones in like city parks and stuff but they don't and you know why like how often have you seen a squirrel playing with its iPhone while it eats right they don't do other things while they animals eat while they eat and so they stop we do all I mean how long the last time many of you just ate a meal and just either stared off in the distance or just talked to someone just ate a meal people with kids and families often do that more cuz you have that together time but even so the moms getting up and the dads getting up and you but really satin ate and really didn't didn't even talk to someone just ate food and looked out the window or just looked kind of feel a little bit crazy like what am i doing okay I've gone mad like I should be reading I should be watching TV in fact there should be a law against selling food at the movies because the ultimate setup for mindless eating because if the movies any good you're not paying attention to the popcorn okay when we do - we're not our brains are not set up to multitask that's not the processing system we have something something always suffers cognitively and eating is a hardwired so easy that we're always gonna focus driving while you I do that all the time we drive while we eat what are we gonna do hopefully pages do the driving and not the food so what that means is the food's going in mindless so you're not monitoring it and you go way over and you often make worse choices so those are again that that's the mindful piece that I wanted to come back to so it's all so easy right tell the stakeholders to go to hell push through your fears throw away all those children's stories you'll be fine right see it's not so easy because at the end of the day in order to really do some of this and tell people no mom I'm not gonna have a second helping of lasagna I've been working really hard to manage my weight what do you do crazy talk this is crazy talk this weight talk enough III don't want here I cook so hard for you okay like fine I'll just eat okay as we come fraught places that's the table that's smaller ticket but let's talk about bigger ticket then when we take it to these bigger places and people are weighing in on your life choices you're like no I am gonna pull the plug on this relationship or no I'm not gonna stay in this job that has not fulfilled I can't tell you how many lawyers I've worked with you're like I'm done I am so done I don't know why I did this in the first place and I can't work in this field anymore but if it's your lawyer that's important that's honorable I mean honestly I should almost have half of my practice should be lawyers who want to leave law like because that's like its own population many of them are overweight too and everyone around them is saying no no stop that's crazy you don't do that and so it's this what if it should be easy to say no but it's not and one of the things I like about my own book I suppose I feel like something I want my own book is this concept of the body count most a health wellness feel-good bliss seeking New Age wellness books are all about your bliss and your happiness and your joy and your positivity and your intentions and that shining star that you're gonna wake up to every morning in my book we take on the body count okay and the body count is all the people who are not going to tolerate you making all these changes they're the ones who are gonna say ah not on my watch you are gonna eat seconds you are gonna stay in that you are gonna stay in that job because the implicit threat is because if you don't I'm leaving I'm leaving you I'm not going to love you anymore right isn't that the ultimate fear the fear is aren't the ultimate when you look at the list of human fears other obviously the fear of death which is a good fear to have you know you'd like to avoid that it's fear of being alone it's fear of abandonment it's fear of loss so these people who threatened to leave you and I'm telling you now some of them will if you make these big-ticket changes that terrifies people so you know what they do like I'm just not gonna make the changes I'm gonna keep the status quo because I'm scared I don't I don't want to lose them if they were so damn easy to lose I'd say lose them what's up what's gonna happen you can take care of yourself and you could if you're really reliant on then we could probably do I'm less than you originally thought it can be done it can be done but that body count and that fear of it is what keeps people walked into broken systems and so they do end up eating for others living for others loving for others and working for others and then again the day that wake-up call comes it's a pretty ugly day the body count is the piece that people don't like like you know I remember one of the things that I started writing that chapter somebody had said to me it's okay to be happy if no one gets hurt like trust me if you're happy somebody got hurt okay because you did challenge them you called them out you took a different path than they wanted to you made them uncomfortable because when you push through the fears and you take on stuff guess what you just become their wake-up call and people don't like wake-up calls they really don't they don't want and so either they have to tolerate being with you or they have to let you go or they're gonna fight you on it every every way and I have to say the narcissists in your world are the ones who run that they're like the ring the ring masters they're the ones who run the show right every every every social network has a tyrant okay and the tyrants run the show and once you make peace with the body-count you've just taken away the tyrants power and that's the key it's very fascinating I saw a documentary on National Geographic about the research of Robert Sapolsky Robert Sapolsky is brilliant I think an animal biologist animal behavior and they were talking about stress and one thing they saw in the subscriber baboons they had it was I was like oh my god this is my stakeholder thing taken to a whole new taken to a whole new species tribe of baboons which had alphas alpha males obviously the alpha males could to have sex and make more of them and then there's other males who aren't two alphas who don't get to have sex with everyone else but they kind of help out and then there's the females okay well in this very fascinating he's been following the same tribe of baboons for decades going every year in the summers and getting cortisol to measure stress levels in the baboons and one year all the alphas made their way to a Nature Preserve where humans would go and they got into the trash and of course the alpha baboons took all the trash because it's good it's good eating it's easy and it was a lot of old meat well the meat was tainted all the alphas got sick and died now you had a tribe of baboons with no alphas and it was fascinating because one of the things you might think is well maybe new alphas would emerge no alphas emerged the the I guess the the dim-witted male baboons remains the same the women remain the same and guess what happened to everyone everyone's cortisol level dropped because the Alpha is all went away and so keep in mind that many times the tyrants are running the show we do have that that sort of narcissistic person that runs our show and we live at their behest and we eat at their behest and we love at their behest and you can shut them down but it does mean that you have to have that courage I've seen it happen time and time again now here's what's interesting about the body count some people will cycle back some will they'll go through their initial shock and awe and disapproval or just discomfort and then we'll circle back and you'll you'll rerender your relationship because now you know they're having trouble hanging in with the new you and I went through that with my parents my parents walked slowly my mother and I are working on it my father and I will probably always struggle it was a huge loss it was a loss that kept me in the game for over 40 years of living for them and so then we're slowly doing our best but some left and never came back that's just that's it that's just how it is in in in in the war that's called your life from time to time it's gonna happen and but it changed everything for me because I don't look upon any of these losses we regret in fact the only thing I regret it was like why did I keep why did I think they would change we all have the rescue fantasy and so that's how it's silly as it sounds is like keep eating all your food can extend to these really really broad spaces remember if you do what you want to do and listen to your instincts you are often going to be labeled as selfish and selfish is not a good word in our social vocabularies if you do what other people ask of you regularly you're selfless and often heroic we imbue that with virtue we rarely talk about it being lack of courage and so that's where it gets tricky and these are these are very old held scripts like I said that start simple and generalize really big are there any questions at this point whether or not you need to eat all that's not the question the question is you know if I took each of mine one of mine would not would eat nothing but the the yummy stuff and that would be the end of it so I'm asking where is the balance so that that that struggle that you have is you grow up where you're not listening to the to the to your instincts you listening to the adults is it wasn't that fed to you at the table when you were a child and how as a parent now do you think you you balance it I think there's a couple I'm saying where do you you can't just say fine your instinct says all I want to do is eat my bowl of pasta mhm right or unless do you say yes you do and if you grow up you'll eat healthy and that'll be your life no I mean you are a gate keeper it's not so simple as to say hey that's that instinct to run the show one thing is to use routine in order you don't let your kids go to sleep 1:00 a.m. some it's 9:00 p.m. one night 16 p.m. night you made a bedtime routine and they have a bedtime okay you managed to make a routine around that I mean to me food and sleep are the two most important things you teach our children and that we give ourselves okay so you make a routine around bedtime and they're able to do that and it's not like well we're gonna do it this way sometimes in this way others 90% at nights you have a routine meals are gonna start taking on same routine and again if pastas sinking the ship then as a parent you have to start making a Jesus use judicious decision saying maybe pasta doesn't need to be part of the show here there's other ways to get the the carbohydrates into their diet obviously including vegetables you pull it out of that you pull it out of the game I mean again as a parent in many ways you're a chemist right you're titrating things all the time this is what they this is healthy as what they do this is what when they're hungry you find a rhythm and then you and use and you build a routine but it is about listening and being responsive and and making it a conversation Deb I mean obviously I'm gonna talk to a five-month-old certainly see her baby is young but there's way we even responsibly nurse them like you know when you're nursing them I was trying to make it a mindful nurse er and not just be constantly like surfing the internet while I was breastfeeding my children kind of thing so we make the conversations occur sometimes just by gazing sometimes by talking you know even when they're pre verbal we talk about these things and talk about what health means at the table and what these choices are but if you see your kid going to town on the pasta and they're not eating the other stuff then you're gonna make different you are the gatekeeper that's what we it's this is not simply about outsourcing the parenting to the instinct saying well well feral children do this all the time my kids can pull this off too there's a job here and it's a huge job you are a nutritionist you are a prison guard you were a lot of things but you you are you've got to make those are those healthy options available to them I say it's a parent my job is to make sure what's going on that plate even if they eat will need a certain proportion of it everything that's going into them is nourishing them and keeping them healthy rather than giving them a big old glob of rice and then vegetables next to that Shanti will just eat the rice I have to I have to see how it's finding your kids rhythms meeting them there that's the instinctual part not only for you as your parent but also for your for your children and then like I said it's and I think she'd made the wonderful point of like some kids can handle having that stuff and how some kids can't but it's again it's about metering it and having conversation and then hope that they're ready to go into the world with it - I mean you're preparing them to make that transition to the world where they don't feel overwhelmed and overpowered but if you teach them that that relationship between health and food wellness and food but we don't do it as grown-ups Deb we talked about the you know I've talked about this left and right this idea of we use food to do just about everything but nourish ourselves you know we use it as a social facilitator we use it as something almost erotic and sensual we use it as something to distract ourselves we use it as a numbing agent but we sure as hell don't use something to keep ourselves healthy and well which it can and it should and it's what it's designed to do and the other thing I say is that we as human beings and kids - food is a place of celebration and it should have been because up to 100 years ago wasn't easy to get you know I mean you had to work hard I mean you know when I even still see in parts of India people work hard to make their meal say chop in vegetables and go into the market and even now they have big supermarkets there but I'm thinking when I was a kid going India but I mean think about how much work would go into getting meals on the tables pretty much like most of the day's work for some proportion of a so-called tribe all right so most days there wasn't enough and it was actually pretty simple and utilitarian so every so often we'd have a feast day right during the harvest maybe three to four times here we have a feast day we need whatever we want all the time guess what what's happened to us as human beings sounds every day is feast day and that's the problem we as a species weren't designed for that it's to make like more days than not get it right with a kid if you look at the writing and again going off and more of a parenting tangent if you look at the writing of Winnicott when it caught writes about the good enough parent okay the good enough parent makes mistakes why because the kids use those mistakes as a place of like oh I'm gonna have to figure this one out on my own or she dropped the ball it builds up this tiny bits of scar tissue that turned them into the individual that they're going to become you can't get it right every time you want to get it right most of the time but not all the time it's the same with food every so often there's gonna be that cupcake every so often there's gonna be those french fries but more nights than not you want to get it right and that's where they're gonna learn and you have the conversations so yes in addition to the problems of eating too much mm-hmm one is nowadays confronted with the real question of what is it okay to eat ha ha ha because I mean I for example I read in the paper yesterday that the American Dairy Association is asking for permission to put aspartame in milk without having to change the labeling at all yes this is like to make it more palatable I to do something or other they they want they're planning to put aspartame you know what I guess my question is do you have any recommendations pro or con specific types of diets I'm so glad you asked me that because this is one this is where I take actually I think a relatively controversial stance I don't care what you eat I don't care ok you want to subsist on Twinkies that's fine by me there's 3500 calories in a pound and you can do the math now here's the bottom line I truly believe is psychologist who's worked so much in the disordered eating space once the respect comes for the person the food respect follows I mean I think that we by and large are we I don't know what it is about the socialization of people particularly United States that results in so much personal disrespect and I think when we do treat ourselves badly through eating very processed food all the time or really a high caloric low nutrition value food it's a comment you know I mean I think to myself about how many people go to tremendous strides to take care of their cars put good gas in it they change the oil why cuz I don't want the thing to break down why cuz it's inconvenient and yet and yet they're cramming themselves full of junk and it's gonna be the same outcome they're gonna break down I do think that we we don't take care of ourselves what I really do think is that once a person really starts connecting with themselves pays attention this conversation on authenticity keeping it real staying healthy listening to their body they are gonna start making healthier choices my concern about listening to dietary scripts this person said I should be a vegetarian I should be a vegan should should should eat this eat don't eat that is once again it's pulling you away from instinct and you're outsourcing yourself the more you source yourself there's more shoddy the product is right that's what all outsourcing results in is shot at your product you should be making it yourself you should be taking care of yourself every so often you may want something you enjoy I mean you may know eight nights out of nine you may eat a vegetarian diet okay but every so often you want a piece of fish or something unless there's a religious prohibition that gives you carries you with it from a place of faith or you it really matters to you and it's an important part of your holistic care of yourself I'd say obviously you're gonna honor that but if it's just saying well I think if I'm a vegetarian I'm going to lose weight or this is better because my doctor my guru my someone told me I'm very concerned about people going that route I really think it's about reading paying attention but then ultimately listening to your body what it is it speaks to you what nourishes you what feels good entering your body and and I think again that starts branching out into many many realms one thing that happened for me and the sort of weight loss process was I was I ate a lot of bad food all the time and I absolutely couldn't stand myself and as those two things have been catching up there's much more self-respect but they're still not as much as there should be but there's quite a bit the food got healthier I mean it just again it just it's a systemic issue and so I do not tell any particular diet I don't think that I just really think that it's eating from a place of so everyone in this room knows what a healthy meal looks like every single one of you could tell me exactly what a healthy meal looks like how much lean protein there should be how much of this is how much is that we all know it's like everyone knows they shouldn't smoke and there's probably people in this room who smoke you know we all know the right answers to the test it doesn't mean we write them down so I think it's really finding what works for you what speaks to your body what works for you your family your culture and listen to that because I think then you can stick with it okay yeah one of the other issues I wanted to talk about is this is the issue of because it's often like we're fighting with our bodies and we are fighting with our bodies when issues are on willpower okay so a lot of really interesting research on the idea of willpower that comes out of the work of Baumeister out of Florida State and basically how many of you find that you wake up in the morning and you're able to make these fantastic food choices egg-white this and vegetable fat and fruit this and lean yogurt then you're like I got this wired look at how healthy my breakfast is I'm just I'm it I'm a dietitian today and by 4 o'clock you can't even get that crispy cream sugar off your face fast enough what happened you're the same person but you really weren't because willpower sits in you like it's like a gas tank okay if you had a good night's sleep seven to nine hours rested you wake up already okay now you might be a little depleted maybe you're an accountant it's tax season give your teacher in its final exam time whatever it may be you're a little depleted but you're ready okay and then the day goes on maybe you're not eating enough because you're trying to lose weight or maybe you had a big deadline or maybe there's a traffic jam maybe your kid get sick and that gas tank starts to come down when do most of us start making our food mistakes in the day give me a time 4:00 p.m. it's the witching hour it's the witching hour where food is concerned why we start getting depleted we're tired the day has happened we may be hungry and so all of a sudden that donut on the office cart that we were able to walk by thinking we were all that at eight o'clock in the morning he's beckoning us like a lover and we're like I'm in okay why because not because you're weak or your back because that's what ends up happening I'm a bad person no you weren't a bad person at 7:00 in the morning that's not that doesn't happen nine hours the same person but you've got less gas in the tank so saying no just became a lot harder willpower is not something you can just will you can't just make it come it's gone so what's your only trick you only got one and it's it's mindfulness if you know for a clocks your witching hour then that's when you make sure you don't walk by that coffee cart you don't keep junk food in your desk you don't keep it at home if you can avoid it if that's where you're most people make their big mistakes after 9:00 p.m. loneliness quiet less distractions tired from the day know when your times are and work around them that's the mindfulness piece you've got the tool it's free it's annoying but it's free it's like the person says how do I get rid of my muffin top like you don't you know you can't spot reduce you also can't just you can't have the same amount of willpower all day long and everyday there are times you're going through something terrible maybe you've had it you're grieving a loss or something it's gonna be harder than and no that be kinder to yourself that that's really what it is it's about being kinder to yourself and so it's a couple of other takeaways I like to give you them really one just to open it to questions it's just in terms of the food stuff it's pretty simple I'm not gonna tell you what to eat I honestly don't care I want to keep it healthy there's 3,500 calories in a pound you do the math are there some things that are better that move stuff through your body better and the high-fiber foods better yeah of course lean protein better sure you don't want a bunch of fat sitting and you know there's diet ethically yes there are certain people there are certain pieces of evidence you all know them you need to only go to one damn newsstand and it's all sitting there for you okay that's it all there so you already know those answers but it's pretty simple that you have to number one you need to listen to your body you know when you're full I'd love for you after this to really spend some time whether it's tonight at dinner tomorrow listen I literally after each bite say romney your full life are you full and then I'm like I'm good and then I'll push the plate away okay listen to your body it knows he knows when you're hungry knows you're full secondly I really want you to I want you to think about the why you are why you wait why are you eating when you're not hungry why are you doing this because it that is what needs to be addressed once you can figure out a way to avoid the food is the tool to deal with the frustration would actually take the frustration head-on I mean I was eating selves in an unhappy marriage and I was in a career that was going nowhere fast I know that now but in the time I didn't want to open my eyes to that's a headache so you really uh for those of us who have really young children I mean I it's beautiful it is to be a mom it's also insanely stressful there were times that those that chocolate chip cookie was my big height of the afternoon cuz there was nothing else that was coming my way when they were both really young and I was working full-time it's just really hard and so as much as we try to romanticize this whole child thing anything romantic it's messy and it's easy to use food to get you through the rough patches okay so listen to the why and finally be mindful like take a moment in India we often drink a big tumbler of water before we eat it's a funny thing to do because it takes away some of the edge but it also it's like it's a moment I think honestly why it's saying grace it's just like a moment to slow down and stop and maybe thanking someone for the food maybe gratitude but it's also a moment and anytime you can just take a moment before you dig in it might be just putting your napkin on your lap you can see just say slow down sister and then it really makes a big a big difference and and then finally think of the who what where when and why if you're eating I have an app coming out in about six weeks so we're finishing the programming right now we're just actually adding the colors and stuff to it but what it does is it just a couple of things one thing it does is it it assesses your minefields who are the people you eat with that calls you the most trouble like I know when I ate with my sister I tend to overeat because we're both big foodies okay so who are your who are your people that throw you off or help you be healthier where do you make your biggest mistakes me it's the car for some of you maybe the sofa or your desk when is your hardest time of day is it the evening is it late at night and the what what are the foods that throw you off like I know for me there's some food I just I try not to keep in the house anymore because they throw me like Doritos and to me junk crappy a stereos I see them and I do I look like I look like a woman possessed I don't know what it is oh everyone here has that forbidden secret dirty pleasure you know I'm coming clean with Hank but that what get controller though every so often if I'm at a party there's a bowl of him I'll stick one of my mouth and Michael it was fun but I don't keep them in the house okay who and then of course always the why what are the reasons that you go in to eating food and when you are is it frustrate could be any feeling I mean it's gonna be different for anyone but once you though app helps you isolate the who what where when and why but you don't need the app to do that you can do that yourself and then those are the moments you have to amp up the mindfulness and so that's another you know major it's an easy take away just like know those things about yourself and that's when you need to pay attention really really I don't pay attention in the morning I don't need to after 6:00 I need to pay attention so I do yeah and those were like my main that those two main points I wanted to make I mean there's a final chapter in the book called the promise of one and what I like about that is that although it was a weight-loss strategy it's basically for a lot of people weight loss is a huge change they they are like one day they wake up and they go from eating thousand calories to a thousand calories they go from eating hamburgers and hot dogs to kale and egg whites and they wonderful this isn't working out what the promise of one asks you to do is set a goal I don't care what that goal is it could be go back to school and get a new degree it could be lose 45 pounds it could be make a documentary whatever your thing is and each day you have to do one thing just one thing it could be send an email and you're done for that day I'm your weight lost one it could be you don't drink enough water you drink too much soda one day it could be I didn't drink any soda today the app is actually designed to handle that you can do this with a piece of paper write the goal down every day force yourself to do that one thing I have an alarm on my phone it goes off at 3:00 p.m. and I make sure by 3:00 p.m. I've done my one thing and if I haven't it's a wake-up call this a girl you haven't sent that email you haven't looked at that website by about six weeks every patient client student I've ever worked with is now doing ten things a day because now this thing's already moving forward like they put the the one thing a day help them get over the wall now they're looking at the new view and they can't stop it just it's like planting a garden all one day all the flowers bloom and so the the promise of one actually has been it's very actionable it's a great takeaway and it's just sort of fun because it's not overwhelming I'm gonna make a documentary and so the first day it may be like oh I'm gonna sign up for that film class through adult education in Brookline okay boom that's your that's your one thing that day the second day maybe that I bought a book on film on my Kindle done for that day and so each day that one thing is kind of fun sometimes it's challenging but like I said before you know it whether it's weight loss a dream an educational goal an occupational goal it's really nice to do with kids with kids it becomes really fun cuz then you can even set up charts and they see the one thing they've done each day to the what their goal is it could be to build a project or something they want to do with my Shanti she wants to write a book so she's trying to write a book and it's you know I mean it's it's not gonna be Warren peace but that's what a nine-year-old can do it it's beautiful so each day she writes a paragraph so it's that it's that kind of thing it becomes actionable and it becomes monitor Abal and and just something and it's just a gift to yourself and honestly when you feel like eating when you're frustrated turn to your promise of one instead it's less calories and it's probably got a better payback so that's it so you know I mean again I I don't believe that people being authentic and listening themself with results in Anarchy I think it actually results in quite the opposite I think part of the reason people behave so badly so many people are not listening to their inner voices and they're so frustrated that bad behavior emanates from not listening to your inner voice once everyone starts doing that there'll be a lot less angry people in traffic or so I say from Los Angeles so are there any other questions thoughts discussion points I mean some of the stuff you brought in you buddy Anthony Michael Hall comment I saw it when I was a kid writes the the line when they just have left attention and they're still in there and they are now all best friends and Anthony Michael Hall says what's gonna happen on Monday it's like all that Romani has to say about all of this always it brings me back to what's gonna happen on Monday you know we all have these great intentions and and and then what happens you know how do we take what it's all sound so great and we not added it all sound so logical and and then what happens when you know you're cutting your kids crusts off the next morning right and it's sitting right there it's what do you do well it's the sustainability piece one of the biggest things like I said I'm not joking you can lose losing the weight is we tend to lose weight in our culture and a goal-oriented basis I want to get into my wedding dress I want to look good for my 25th reunion its bikini season right that's it's always like this I got to get there and once I'm there and I look great in my wedding dress then there's the and what happens on Monday and then what that's where again in my practice I'm seeing a cuz they I become the fixer it's it's a mess because what is happening is we do there are there's a lot of theoretical work on sort of the wait about a person who's eating a healthy level of calories not a starvation level often creep up to a set point wait that is a healthy weight but it's not as an aesthetically pleasing weight for some women who are touted the size zero' size - unreal really unrealistic thin frames that they may or may not genetically will be wired to be we against of ourselves to be anything I mean right I mean that's you could just bring and take the food out of the system and stop the calories and the person will get very low weight and look like a I could have clothes hanger but that's in the long term how sustainable is that what ends up happening is you get a lot of food obsession that's thinking about food never stops it's like constant rather than you know a patient who literally came in and cheers had an emergency session Leslie and she was in crisis and to come in I don't know what to eat at my birthday dinner I was like it's kind of no-brainer to me but okay let's bring it on but it wants it to no brainer she was in pain literally was having symptoms of panic and this was a woman again who went on a starvation diet plan that she paid $10,000 for to be told to eat 600 calories a day for 15 months she took off an enormous amount of a enormous amount of weight sustaining it has become nothing short of a nightmare that has overtaken her life and so how we're having the gentle conversations of her setpoint is probably about 20 pounds higher than she thought still gonna be an extraordinarily healthy weight but it's gonna better put her at a size that doesn't please her as much and this is it's a what happens on Monday how do you sustain these changes and this is what I'm saying it's not just about losing weight it's about listening to you it's about honoring yourself in every aspect of your life and you know and stop letting all these other voices noises fears fairytales drown out what you know to be right for you again every single one of you in this room can reflect on decisions you made from a place of instinct pure instinct a move a relationship a educational decision whatever it may be and a lot of people may have fought you on it and said oh no about that are you sure are you sure are you sure and you did it anyhow and guess how it turned out I'm guessing just damn tootin fine okay I can think of five decisions in my life like that where I just went I went went for it they turned out so beautifully there are no words but god I was terrified at the time but we and when we we had yet we have all this data we have all this data that tells us our instincts are spot on and yet I mean I have to say though the older the clients I work with the better they are often and handling that the data integrating so like yeah I guess I have I have 10 experiences like a drop on that turned out that way you know the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing expecting different results so that's what you know I mean the fact is if you can use that data so yeah yeah there's two points that I wanted to make that are directly connected to points you've made earlier one is again sort of teaching the mindfulness to our children and rather than sitting on as a futon to have that mindfulness one of the clues I use with my patients with my children they're you know really sort of 30 minutes after you eat how do you feel with that food in your body and and oftentimes my kids will say oh my stomach totally hurts you know I think I had too much birthday cake or whatever you know and so just using their own body for that and then the other piece I wanted to say about this whole you know body count and this idea of it sort of being a selfish process actually think it's the most selfless thing that you can do and I think it's really important to emphasize that for the people who are on the journey because I think people have a lot of fear when they're being told that what they're the decisions they're making are for themselves yeah and that's the end point because ultimately you know for those people who've been on the journey you know that when you're you have a lot of respect and they're comfortable for with who you are then you can be a lot more generous in the world absolutely thank you you said far more eloquently have you nailed it I mean I think that that's what it is it is that when you are living authentically in every area of your life you're really honoring that the goodness that starts to emanate is really it's it's quite extraordinary and I think what does get happen is again what happens is we are so scaffolded and stuck to external definitions of success right when we think of success I hate to say it but many times there's a reflexive depiction of a certain kind of a home it's what kind of lifestyle certain kind of a car a certain kind of an appearance once that can go and you can really honor that about yourself and say no this is this is where it's going to go this is this is how I want to live my life extraordinary things happen and it is there's a kindness that comes from that place and then that kindness that impacts all the other people you're seeing and then and then it does become a very exponential kind of an effect but that idea of being labeled a selfish initially again I do feel like all of our social networks contain a fair number of tyrants and they that kind of change is very threatening to that whole system so it is about being brave and holding that course and think about what you're modeling for your children I mean that's something that I keep coming back to have daughters and so when they do see me making a relatively fearless decision instead of just seeing the panic I'd also like them I let them in on the process this is what I'm doing this is why I'm doing this and it I'm hoping it opens for them some vocabulary of listening to themselves and doing an honor themselves and doing what it is they want and you know we'll see I'll let you know how that turns out six or ten year it's the other question yeah please thank you thank your coming here oh it's been my pleasure thank you thank you so this is the just to go about having growing children that don't OD at Gingerbread making yeah parties and you mentioned that it's because all of these forbidden foods are accessible at your home that works with my kids kids right so my question is about permission so did you ever have to have them the foods were there but were they available and and and on you know and that they were allowed to have them whenever they wanted or did they always have to ask permission to have the cookies and then if not then it what in what age do that yeah it's always you know the kitchen is a permission so like it is like you know mom mom I'm feeling a little hungry you know what they'll check in they do check in with me or their babysitter or their dad whoever's house they're at and so it is a check-in space I live in a very tiny place - so like you can't crunch a chip-in without me here every block so it's um so that helps a lot but um but we they do check in and I will say that obviously it wasn't always readily available when they were much smaller the nice thing is the tone got set you know what was healthy what was available how you're gonna eat what was interesting is when I started losing weight Shanti was too Maya was five so they saw him Maya's had more evidence of me eating unhealthy than shanti shanti probably some much conscious memory of it the younger one and i changed my whole game so what was that seven years ago so i think that it is a they do check in they know that you don't you don't just grab what you want you did you check in and the bad stuff is it's not easy to get to like I said it's pretty calamitous to get to it in our house like I mean honestly you either have to be a mountain climber or Houdini to get so I didn't keep that way that's interesting because I we moved from a high-ceilinged hmm I'm kitchen in Brookline to a low ceiling engine in Newton so I didn't have any places to hide away so my girlfriend said you don't need a high place just use your voice my voice and my four little words would get a little bit but I do have mountain climbers and quiet quiet eaters and I do find empty boxes in the back of the top you know seven-year-old it's a seven-year-old twin okay two boys two girls and an older boy twelve who had like ask permission always but it's the one that won't ask permission that's the sneakiest so but i'd love you just be a little bit more about when they would ask how does it how did you when was it okay and then how do you how did they deal with that knowing they wanted something i know you asked what they're hungry in the apple test but but then now they want the M&Ms and everything that they were it's the mindfulness piece like i as a mom you you have to have to have a heck of a prodigious memory i have to remember what they have been what's hard for me is a day I come in midstream like I don't know what they were doing before me you know and so but if we have a full day together we are I mean any anyone here as kids you're keeping track you know what they've eaten by during the day so you know Shanti might say you know mom can I have those M&Ms and I'll you know quickly do the math a bit well I'm sure you need a damn good lunch like that was she did good today like that was that was balance that was good I don't say sure let's let's you know and then we'll have a measure out a portion or something like that and then chilled she'll take it and walk off with it but if it's really been and you know she did not she came home she didn't eat the healthy lunch or we just went run run run and she wants to go right in I'll say Shawn's this is not this is not the time let's make some healthy choices first and then again she's typically hungry at that time you know she's obviously going to the easy the easy out and then she'll go with that healthy choice like she they rarely fight me on it that I'm liking maybe I'm lucky there and that they're temperamentally not fighting me on it but it is understood because I think enough times they have eaten well so the so-called goodie I'll quickly do the math and say yeah this is I mean they've hit their marks and then it's really about me remembering again what's harder is when I've only had them part of the day so I don't know what came before me and so that's why my rhythm with them and like I said I'm lucky cuz I don't have to wait for another adult to enter in the house after I picked him up from a daycare at school but I'm the the older one takes a bus home we get home we walk in the house and dinner gets cooked like there's no after-school snack or not something you go right into the healthy dinner they're very hungry when they get home so what's going into them is they really start their evening from a Great Basin from there on and they never really my my older ones likes to drink like chamomile tea in the evening and that's that's that's her only thing you know and if the little one doesn't want anything so on that's one way I the eating dinner the minute we walk in the door like Oh 20 minutes 30 minutes later however long it takes me to make it that's been a lifesaver because what we're huh a weekend by the time we're all home it's somewhere between 5:30 and 6:00 yeah it's not like 4 o'clock but I will say we've done this at 4 o'clock when they were younger well we'd all get home and if I was lucky enough to get home it would be 4 didn't we beat in dinner at 4:30 yeah the girl that now the girl twin the 7 year old she will not eat breakfast no matter how early I get her up no matter when she the day before and I'm an eating disorder I'm a recovering eating disordered person so I mean I and I know breakfast is you know important but consistently no matter what is served and there's there's a plethora of choices and I care what she wants I don't care I don't care when she pushes it away but she won't begin and she will not eat breakfast she no hungry you know Gemma it's interesting I mean it's generous for adults for adults the Journal of the American Medical Association did say like you know in terms of weight loss they did a whole myth like you got to eat breakfast to lose weight that's it that just went out the window they're like if you don't eat breakfast don't eat breakfast you know I mean it lost some of its now when it comes though to when I've worked with clients who've been cheating or disorder or bulimia nervosa it's a different game like we're actually using very carefully timed meals like it's a different treatment regimen there but the only concern I have about a child not eating breakfast is concentration problems at school like because at school they don't have control of one they they can't just like rip into their desk at 8:30 and say oh it's time for me to break into my energy bar like they can't do that like they have to wait until that moment in the day when they're allowed to eat is she not getting hungry at school until lunchtime I mean I there any her since she's been one she won't eat or wear or do anything that she doesn't want to do okay does she when you give her healthy choices of food will she eat them no you mean not at breakfast yeah eight other meals yeah mm-hmm yes yes and she's not struggling at school she's and the teachers not saying your daughter's super hungry if I mean I'm not hearing anything here that's super I mean again if this is a child getting hungry having problems in school sneaking food at school something like that but if she's eating a healthy food you're giving her and she's listening to that I mean I think I would put the healthy stuff out in the morning and the one thing kids will learn is that - like if Shante says to me I'm mom I was super hungry lunch why can you take that much breakfast this morning let's try that again and so they will learn them you have a conversation about it but and then stay in touch with her teacher saying does she seem hungry or anything did she say no I know some people just don't like eating the one they almost feel like a little off and then it picks up for them during the course of a day and so that could let her I would say let her be yeah I guess mostly that again it's the attention the concentration that kind of thing that concerns me and if it's that's not coming into play you know hungry yes someone at one of your events commented I think it was about you that you moved like that leads me to wonder how therapeutic is the weight loss for the underlying flabs issues that were there that led you to overeat do you deal with the weight and then you have to deal with what the source of the problem is I couldn't separate it all out and its own fashion losing the weight like losing the number the pound on the scale or the clothes fitting differently was a reinforcer in its own fashion because what it did was it gave me what we call a sense of efficacy it's like I did X and why happen and each time I do X Y happens and the more times I realize that like when you realize if I do this and this happens that's the core of learning right and when we have times in our life we keep doing something and nothing comes back from that that ends up becoming the core of helplessness and so what I learned was if I took care of my body and did this thing then these good things would come however I don't think that simply losing it wasn't the losing the weight that matter what happened was as the weight started coming off I started making changes in other areas of my life I have to say it was those other changes the ability to have painful relationship conversations to make big changes at work that's what ended up really becoming a psychological game change I'm like oh these are these are real changes and and then I started feeling better myself about myself I felt a little bolder I put myself out there in a different way I like the way my body moved a little bit more I was exercising more I was moving more so I think it ends up becoming like like like a root system rather than just a linear change I think I was reinforced by doing X and having Y happen but lots of X's and lots of Y's were then starting to happen at the same time I think you ever play that game would you put a bunch of dots on the page and you draw lines right and for the first 10 minutes of the game it's tedious because you're just drawing lines and then one point that one thing you then also know all the squares come in that's what weight-loss it like is like if you do it psychologically it's lots of eat fruit II egg whites don't eat fried foods don't drink soda you're making all these little lines and then one day all you make that one line and all the squares start coming and like hey I just you know was assertive with my boss hey I just told my husband you have to respect me hey I just was like really strong and how I communicated my kids I don't know like all the squares start coming together but I think there's a slow burn the iceberg so to speak where you start listening to yourself and that then you start listening to yourself everywhere I think that's how it happens and that's my biggest concern about how we do weight loss in this country nobody's everyone's pulling off the weed by the top I'll get 50 pounds off you look fabulous in a bikini but now you're still depressed in a bikini you know so that's not good what do you think has been the hardest or the biggest challenge for you in terms of the you said it's yet the maintenance phase and following the seventeen months yep of weight loss now however many years seven years what is something that what is the hardest part about that for you I'm I love to eat I love food I sit soothes me I still have hard days obviously and broken hearts and all those things and I want food to be a fix it I love feeling overly full I love junk food I love fried food I love Indian food I could eat big bowls of rice oh that's it that those are all facts about me you know and so what it yeah exactly you know so what happens is for me is that I that means every I get frustrated I get frustrated a lot and I want to eat more and I do I the mindfulness gets tired so especially when I'm really tired and so I'm like I I'm so tired of this why I was driving and I said if I had a wish but I could eat anything I wanted as much as I wanted to never gain weight like that would be my worst like you know after world peace and saving all the girls and women it would be like I could do that right and I'm like what a bizarre wish wrong but I I get I'm very frustrated and it's I don't like to exercise believe it or not I I go to the gym religiously I do it I hike but I'm it's not it's not a happy place for me I I do it much like one might take a medication and and I tolerate it and I'm not walking around like I'm going my spinning class and I'm in shape I'm like yeah you know and I'm rolling my eyes whole time so it's I and I own that as part of my process like I do this because I I know all the benefits of exercise for cardiovascular health and immune function it's really I think it's so good for me so I'm but I struggle like I can't I can't eat the way I want and I do what I do really struggle with is I do think I'm eating a little less than my body wants and I don't like the fact that I'm still I when I entered the media I made a deal with the devil I had to look a certain way and I don't I mean it is a I had to be the pretty doctor you know and I mean usually I'm the Debbie I'll tell you the girl with sweats and hair back and not this you know certainly not with groomed and bathed and all of this and so that's hard for me because it's not my identity and I feel like I drank the kool-aid I drank the Hollywood kool-aid and so and now I feel like I have to stay there because now people are waiting for me to fail and so and I don't like it because I do like to eat and I I sometimes think about my retirement where I'm going to let the hair finally go its natural gray and I'm gonna eat what I want and I'm gonna be a little rotund and the charming older professor who decides to keep company with me at that point well why so but it is I don't like it's hard for me I love food so I have to learn how to let it in in a manageable way and realize that some days are for celebration and some days are just for like keeping it healthy and and then when I do eat well I do feel better so that reinforced that makes sense yeah I tell people this is hard when my patients was all their weight I say here's the part they didn't tell you don't think you're gonna wake up and have a come-to-jesus moment with kale it's not gonna happen okay you're still gonna want onion rings and and anyone who's telling you otherwise is lying cuz they're like they said no one ever told me this my dietician said this I'm gonna love this I don't love it I'm like you're never gone it's like an arranged marriage like you just have to make your peace with it and that think that was the hard part and it's a thank you for telling me that now I know it's supposed to be hard feels a little bit better like don't get me wrong if my body feels good and all about but I miss my onion rings I'm like of course you do it's like that bad boy boyfriend from college you still want a little bit of that but it's just a little bit okay that's it yeah I would love to yes thank you so much [Applause]

Channel: Brookline Interactive Group

Views: 188,393

Keywords: access

Id: tEtfvwfAeR8

Length: 91min 59sec (5519 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 01 2013